‘Inexcusable performance’ | How bad is Mercedes' W14?

Matt Baker is joined this week by Sky Sports F1's Naomi Schiff and Damon Hill.

They discuss why Mercedes is still struggling with the W14 after Toto Wolff believed Brazil was his 'worst weekend in 13 years'.

They also debate if Fernando Alonso's thrilling finish in Brazil was his best career drive ever after a masterclass of a defence against Sergio Perez.

Finally, they turn their attention to Las Vegas and question could the cold weather throw a spanner in the works?

# **Episode Summary: Analyzing the Mercedes Struggles and Fernando Alonso's Thrilling Performance**

**Key Takeaways:**

- Toto Wolff expressed disappointment with Mercedes' performance in Brazil, calling it his "worst weekend in 13 years."
- Naomi Schiff and Damon Hill discussed the team's struggles, suggesting that the W14 may be operating outside its optimal setup window.
- The podcast highlighted Fernando Alonso's masterful defense against Sergio Perez, sparking debate about whether it was his best career drive.
- The upcoming Las Vegas Grand Prix was mentioned, with questions raised about the impact of cold weather on the race.

**Mercedes' Challenges:**

- Mercedes endured a difficult weekend in Brazil, with Lewis Hamilton finishing 8th and George Russell retiring due to an engine failure.
- Toto Wolff expressed strong dissatisfaction, describing the team's performance as "totally baffling and unacceptable."
- Naomi Schiff suggested that Mercedes may have erred in their setup direction during the sprint weekend, leading to tire issues and lack of pace.
- Damon Hill emphasized the importance of finding the correct setup window for the W14, acknowledging the fickle nature of these new-generation Formula One cars.

**Fernando Alonso's Heroics:**

- Fernando Alonso's spirited defense against Sergio Perez in the closing laps of the race was widely praised.
- The podcast debated whether this was Alonso's best career drive, considering his exceptional skill and experience.
- Damon Hill highlighted the significance of Alonso's tactics in keeping Perez behind, despite the limitations of the Aston Martin.

**Las Vegas Grand Prix:**

- The upcoming Las Vegas Grand Prix was briefly mentioned, with speculation about the potential impact of cold weather on the race.
- The podcast acknowledged the excitement surrounding the Las Vegas event, emphasizing its unique atmosphere and the challenges it may present to the teams.

**Overall:**

The podcast provided insightful analysis of Mercedes' struggles in Brazil, exploring potential reasons for their poor performance. The discussion surrounding Fernando Alonso's heroics highlighted his exceptional driving skills and the significance of his defensive tactics. The mention of the Las Vegas Grand Prix added a forward-looking perspective to the episode.

# Podcast Episode Summary: Analyzing the Brazilian Grand Prix and Anticipating the Las Vegas Race

## Key Points:

- The Mercedes team is still struggling with the W14 car, leading to Toto Wolff describing the Brazilian Grand Prix as his "worst weekend in 13 years."

- Fernando Alonso's thrilling defense against Sergio Perez in Brazil sparked a debate on whether it was his best career drive.

- Aston Martin had a positive weekend with both Fernando Alonso and Lance Stroll finishing in the top five.

- The Las Vegas Grand Prix is generating excitement, but concerns about the cold weather conditions and its impact on the race are being raised.

- The race in Las Vegas will be a new track for all teams, creating a level playing field and potentially leading to unpredictable outcomes.

- The unique schedule of the Las Vegas race, with qualifying at midnight and the race at 10 pm local time, poses challenges for drivers and teams in terms of their sleep and preparation.

## Main Discussion Points:

### Fernando Alonso's Performance in Brazil:

- Fernando Alonso's skillful defense against Sergio Perez in the closing laps of the Brazilian Grand Prix was a highlight of the race.

- The discussion centers around whether this was Alonso's best career drive, considering his strategic thinking and ability to maintain closeness to Perez.

- Naomi Schiff highlights Alonso's cunning tactics, emphasizing his ability to predict the DRS zones and use them to his advantage.

- Damon Hill agrees that Alonso's performance was impressive, showcasing his experience and skill as a racing driver.

### Aston Martin's Positive Weekend:

- Aston Martin had a strong weekend in Brazil, with both Fernando Alonso and Lance Stroll finishing in the top five.

- The team's turnaround in performance, after a series of disappointing results, is attributed to their ability to identify and address issues with the car.

- Mike Krack's leadership is praised for fostering a positive approach and encouraging the team to learn from their mistakes.

### Mercedes' Ongoing Struggles:

- Mercedes continues to face difficulties with the W14 car, lacking the understanding and solutions to fix its problems.

- The team's inability to consistently develop and implement effective upgrades has hindered their progress.

- Naomi Schiff suggests that Mercedes is not the only team facing these challenges, but their recent struggles have been more pronounced.

### Las Vegas Grand Prix: Excitement and Concerns:

- The upcoming Las Vegas Grand Prix is highly anticipated, marking the return of Formula One to the city after a long absence.

- The race will take place on a new street circuit, creating a level playing field for all teams.

- However, concerns are raised about the cold weather conditions expected during the race, which could impact tire performance and overall racing dynamics.

- The unique schedule of the race, with qualifying at midnight and the race at 10 pm local time, poses challenges for drivers and teams in terms of their sleep and preparation.

- The podcast concludes with anticipation for the Las Vegas Grand Prix and the potential for exciting and unpredictable outcomes.

[00:00.000 -> 00:06.120] Hello everyone, welcome to this week's episode of the Sky Sports F1 podcast. Joining me for this one is Damon Hill and
[00:06.400 -> 00:13.800] Fresh from her weekend in Sao Paulo Naomi Schiff. Hello to both of you. Naomi, let's start with you. You're in Brazil. How was it?
[00:14.760 -> 00:17.600] Hi, Matt. First of all, hi Damon. I hope you guys are both well
[00:18.600 -> 00:24.240] Brazil, I mean look, I think Brazil is probably one of my top events of the season
[00:24.560 -> 00:25.000] It's always a pleasure to go back. I went last year for the first time. So this is my second I think Brazil is probably one of my top events of the season.
[00:25.000 -> 00:26.280] It's always a pleasure to go back.
[00:26.280 -> 00:27.520] I went last year for the first time.
[00:27.520 -> 00:31.200] So this is my second attempt at the Brazilian Grand Prix.
[00:31.200 -> 00:32.600] And yeah, I just love it.
[00:32.600 -> 00:34.200] The crowd there are incredible
[00:34.200 -> 00:36.380] and everything that they had to put up with
[00:36.380 -> 00:38.760] between weather, sunshine.
[00:38.760 -> 00:41.320] I'm not the most incredible racing on race day itself,
[00:41.320 -> 00:43.360] but they got a great sprint race.
[00:43.360 -> 00:47.720] And yeah, overall, I'd say pretty big tick for Brazil
[00:47.720 -> 00:49.520] in terms of the atmosphere that it delivers.
[00:49.520 -> 00:50.040] Big tick.
[00:50.040 -> 00:52.800] Damon, you were watching from home, I assume.
[00:52.800 -> 00:53.760] How was it for you?
[00:53.760 -> 00:55.920] I enjoyed the coverage, of course.
[00:55.920 -> 00:58.680] Always entertaining and informative.
[00:58.680 -> 01:00.880] There were some good moments, especially, of course,
[01:00.880 -> 01:03.520] Martin's gridwalk and an interview with the Tommy Gunn
[01:03.520 -> 01:05.200] bloke, or whatever his name was,
[01:12.560 -> 01:19.520] he was Machine Gun Kelly, so yeah interesting, interesting fellow, so that as that was pure obviously gridwalk gold, everyone responded to that and the dancing people you know and the
[01:19.520 -> 01:23.680] lovely little chap on the ukulele or it's not a ukulele is it it's called something else it's
[01:24.400 -> 01:25.440] um it's head's nailed it they tune it yeah Ted told us I can'tle or it's not a ukulele is it's called something else it's a um it's head
[01:25.440 -> 01:29.600] nailed it they tune it yeah ted told us i can't remember what it's called but he absolutely nailed
[01:29.600 -> 01:36.160] the pronunciation and yeah incredible yeah so of course and so we watch a whole everything around
[01:36.160 -> 01:42.400] the event of course was was fascinating and and as the vibrancy of brazil comes through doesn't it
[01:42.400 -> 01:45.760] every time you you know you can't help but be affected
[01:45.760 -> 01:48.640] by the energy in the place.
[01:48.640 -> 01:51.140] And the track is also, I think,
[01:51.140 -> 01:53.640] one of the best race tracks we ever go to.
[01:53.640 -> 01:55.460] It's relatively simple,
[01:55.460 -> 01:59.000] but it produces fantastic watchable racing
[01:59.000 -> 02:01.640] and opportunities for drivers.
[02:01.640 -> 02:03.900] The Senna S is, and the back straight
[02:03.900 -> 02:05.000] is another overtaking
[02:05.000 -> 02:09.240] opportunity including this, what isn't really a main straight, it's a main bend
[02:09.240 -> 02:14.280] isn't it, it just goes on and on and on and it's so steep as well that kind of
[02:14.280 -> 02:18.440] creates issues and we saw that in the race unfolding when we got to the end of
[02:18.440 -> 02:27.120] the race with Fernando who was using some clever Fernando tactics to keep Checo behind him.
[02:27.120 -> 02:31.000] But you know, that circuit is a great place to go racing.
[02:31.000 -> 02:37.640] There was a bit of a lull between the dramatic start, the restart, and watching the cat and
[02:37.640 -> 02:43.120] mouse game with Lando and with Max.
[02:43.120 -> 02:47.160] But so there was a bit of a kind of bit where I thought this race seems to be a very long race
[02:48.000 -> 02:51.160] And then it got interesting at the end. So I was happy
[02:51.880 -> 02:57.240] Very good summary Damon. I was gonna ask for a one-word race review, but I'm almost inclined to take that as your
[02:58.240 -> 03:04.240] That's how I saw it. That's pretty much it. You asked me so I did sit down and have a few crisps and maybe a beer as well
[03:04.240 -> 03:05.280] So I was watching it at home.
[03:05.280 -> 03:08.800] So I was relaxing as I'm entitled to.
[03:09.520 -> 03:13.840] Very good. Naomi, I mean, look, do you have a one word race review?
[03:13.880 -> 03:15.080] You said earlier you didn't.
[03:15.080 -> 03:18.120] So I'm going to put you on the spot now and ask you for a word.
[03:18.120 -> 03:18.920] I feel like it's quite tough.
[03:18.920 -> 03:22.600] Is there a synonym for something that means that something starts at the peak,
[03:22.840 -> 03:28.480] sort of plateaus and then peaks again at the end? If you can think of one word for that, then that would be it.
[03:28.480 -> 03:32.800] Could it be called the São Paulo Grand Prix? That's not one word but of course
[03:32.800 -> 03:36.160] it's not the Brazilian is it? So how did that happen? Why is it not the
[03:36.160 -> 03:41.280] Brazilian Grand Prix? Anyway, São Paulo have got it. They all see at war with
[03:41.280 -> 03:47.760] some of the other places in Brazil who want to claim the whole thing for themselves,
[03:47.760 -> 03:50.600] not donate it to the state, the wider state.
[03:50.600 -> 03:53.760] But anyway, I agree with you.
[03:53.760 -> 03:59.240] It definitely had a, you know, the normal peak and then a lull, a very, very kind of
[03:59.240 -> 04:01.320] long lull in the middle.
[04:01.320 -> 04:05.520] Which is still a bit surprising though because the sprint itself was quite
[04:05.520 -> 04:09.760] full of action and of course we had a very different grid on Sunday and that obviously
[04:09.760 -> 04:14.000] potentially played into it. We lost a lot of drivers off the grid as well so that maybe
[04:14.000 -> 04:18.240] also played into it. But as you said Damon it's one of the best racing tracks that we
[04:18.240 -> 04:23.000] visit all year, especially in terms of the racing that it typically delivers and I guess
[04:23.000 -> 04:30.400] this just wasn't the year. I think last year we had a statistic of 62 overtakes, which made it the most overtakes of any race last season.
[04:30.400 -> 04:34.720] And I don't know what the number was this time around, but it certainly didn't feel like the
[04:34.720 -> 04:39.520] most overtakes of the season. What you should do is to get the sprint and edit out the middle
[04:39.520 -> 04:44.960] bit of the Grand Prix and put the sprint in the middle of the race. And you've got an action packed
[04:44.960 -> 04:47.200] race because I thought the sprint was very good I liked all the
[04:47.200 -> 04:51.560] darting around and everyone jostling for position and the desperation is
[04:51.560 -> 04:58.800] much more urgency about the sprint performances of the drivers so it is
[04:58.800 -> 05:01.640] entertaining of course it's a bone of contention now they've talked
[05:01.640 -> 05:08.640] about potentially changing the format and whether or not it's, some people don't like it, Red Bull don't seem to like it, Max doesn't seem
[05:08.640 -> 05:11.680] to like it, so there's discussion about that.
[05:11.680 -> 05:15.920] And fans of course have got their right to say what they think of it, whether they think
[05:15.920 -> 05:19.360] it's a plus or a minus.
[05:19.360 -> 05:25.460] I know what they're trying to do but it can be confusing I think there's so there's there's something to
[05:25.460 -> 05:30.100] be discussed about when when I get when I just talked to people who I know who
[05:30.100 -> 05:34.280] follow you you know follow racing loosely they don't understand they just
[05:34.280 -> 05:37.760] you know it's that you say to them there's a sprint race well what's the
[05:37.760 -> 05:41.760] sprint race you know they they you know we mustn't assume that everybody gets it
[05:41.760 -> 05:45.080] they I think it in some way it does confuse people.
[05:45.080 -> 05:46.920] They understand there's a Grand Prix on Sunday.
[05:47.200 -> 05:48.160] What's this other race?
[05:48.240 -> 05:54.340] You know, so on a kind of broader level, it's difficult to explain to people why
[05:54.340 -> 05:56.560] you're having a race the day before the race.
[05:56.720 -> 06:00.920] I did actually have the opportunity to ask the question to all the drivers that were
[06:00.920 -> 06:09.680] in the press conference on Thursday on what obviously last sixth and final sprint race of the season, what were their, you know, reflections on the year. And I have to say
[06:09.680 -> 06:14.080] it was quite mixed and I was surprised that quite a few of them, I would say probably the majority
[06:14.080 -> 06:21.200] of them, were pro the sprint. I think viewing figures show that the sprint is loved by audiences
[06:21.200 -> 06:24.960] as well because at the end of the day, even if it is confusing, and I think because there's so much
[06:24.960 -> 06:25.740] in this phase of sort of experimenting with, even if it is confusing, and I think because there's so much in this phase
[06:25.740 -> 06:27.920] of sort of experimenting with the format
[06:27.920 -> 06:29.120] and it keeps slightly changing
[06:29.120 -> 06:31.000] that people can't really keep up with it,
[06:31.000 -> 06:32.680] at the end of the day,
[06:32.680 -> 06:34.480] would you rather watch Free Practice 3
[06:34.480 -> 06:37.820] or a sprint shootout or a sprint race?
[06:38.760 -> 06:40.200] Yeah, I think Free Practice is a lot
[06:40.200 -> 06:43.800] and I think this is a way to give both audiences at home
[06:43.800 -> 06:45.280] and at the track something more interesting
[06:45.280 -> 06:50.240] to watch. What I like actually to be fair as well is at least it's a discussion. It feels like
[06:50.240 -> 06:54.960] there is Stefano Dominicali is having discussions with the teams and with the drivers
[06:54.960 -> 06:59.360] to actually establish what everyone wants and also I'm sure he'll take on board fan opinion as well.
[06:59.360 -> 07:04.160] So it's not set in stone and I think that's a very positive thing. All right let's move on.
[07:04.160 -> 07:06.560] There's a couple of meaty topics I want to get into.
[07:06.560 -> 07:11.160] The second one being Alonso's Heroics, which was a great story and a brilliant end to the
[07:11.160 -> 07:16.000] race but the first part, the first section of the podcast I want to talk about, it is
[07:16.000 -> 07:21.840] Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton finished 8th, which is more than a minute behind Max Verstappen
[07:21.840 -> 07:24.960] while George Russell retired with an engine failure.
[07:24.960 -> 07:29.720] He was running in 11th and I'm just going to run you through some of the comments from
[07:29.720 -> 07:34.200] Toto Wolff after the race, because I think these are quite extraordinary. He said the
[07:34.200 -> 07:40.260] following, it is totally baffling and unacceptable, an inexcusable performance, this car doesn't
[07:40.260 -> 07:45.920] deserve a win. And then he also said it was the worst weekend in 13 years, which
[07:45.920 -> 07:52.660] I think is an extraordinary thing to say. Naomi, what was the mood in the paddock post-race
[07:52.660 -> 07:53.660] on Sunday?
[07:53.660 -> 07:59.300] Well, look, I think we all heard Toto's words on the show. And I think Ted was the one to
[07:59.300 -> 08:03.400] ask him the questions. And I think well done to Ted for persevering with the questions
[08:03.400 -> 08:05.840] because it just seemed like Toto was not in a good place. And I think well done to Ted for persevering with the questions, because it just seemed like Toto was not in a good place.
[08:05.840 -> 08:08.320] And I think those words are quite strong.
[08:08.320 -> 08:13.600] And I'm not sure if it's potentially a bit of an emotional reaction to a moment
[08:13.600 -> 08:18.080] after the race, because overall, of course, it was not a great weekend for them.
[08:18.080 -> 08:19.920] You know, they lacked pace.
[08:21.040 -> 08:29.000] They were obviously, you know, using up the tires a lot more than majority of the teams around them and something that's very uncharacteristic for their car.
[08:29.000 -> 08:34.000] So unable to use the tires in the way they wanted to. And on top of that, they had reliability issues.
[08:34.000 -> 08:46.160] So a lot of things going wrong for them. But if you look back just two races, they had two podiums and two races and that car was moving forwards in a positive trajectory. So I think although it was
[08:47.120 -> 08:53.600] quite a dramatic result for them, it just does seem like it may be a once-off and maybe they
[08:53.600 -> 08:58.800] know more than we do and obviously they do, but at the end of the day we've seen that car in the past
[08:58.800 -> 09:04.640] be very, as Toto described it, on a knife's edge. So that working window for them is very narrow
[09:04.640 -> 09:07.060] and I think that given the fact it was a sprint weekend,
[09:07.060 -> 09:08.480] it's possible that they led themselves
[09:08.480 -> 09:10.360] in the wrong direction when it comes to set up.
[09:10.360 -> 09:12.520] So I'm pretty sure that they're having
[09:12.520 -> 09:14.360] major debriefs right now,
[09:14.360 -> 09:16.560] but I don't know if we should take Toto's reaction
[09:16.560 -> 09:17.600] with a bit of a pinch of salt.
[09:17.600 -> 09:21.560] I think it was quite a pessimistic outlook on a weekend
[09:21.560 -> 09:23.700] that of course didn't go the way they wanted it to at all,
[09:23.700 -> 09:27.520] but are they really in that dire of a situation right now?
[09:27.520 -> 09:32.800] I think recent future, I mean recent history I should say, shows that they aren't in such
[09:32.800 -> 09:34.160] a terrible place.
[09:34.160 -> 09:42.600] I think Ted raised some interesting questions in his Ted Talk, and his, not Ted Talk, notebook
[09:42.600 -> 09:43.600] talk.
[09:43.600 -> 09:44.600] Let's call it a Ted Talk.
[09:44.600 -> 09:46.520] It's kind of, he was there before Ted, wasn't he really?
[09:46.960 -> 09:52.600] But anyway, but yeah, so he was talking about, is this the end of the era with Mike Elliott leaving?
[09:52.600 -> 09:56.440] And, you know, there are key people who have have drifted away from the team.
[09:57.040 -> 09:59.760] Are we seeing the effects?
[09:59.840 -> 10:01.520] I mean, I agree with Nomi.
[10:01.520 -> 10:05.280] This is a one, I mean, because in America it looked, this is a one-off. I mean, because in America, it looked great,
[10:05.280 -> 10:06.440] except they were disqualified.
[10:06.440 -> 10:10.840] So, you know, and maybe they erred on the side of safety
[10:10.840 -> 10:11.680] a little bit too much.
[10:11.680 -> 10:14.400] Maybe, you know, these cars are incredibly fickle.
[10:14.400 -> 10:17.000] The F stands for fickle at the moment in Formula One,
[10:17.000 -> 10:19.520] because, you know, everyone's up and down.
[10:19.520 -> 10:21.560] It was previous races, last two races,
[10:21.560 -> 10:23.400] Aston Martin were nowhere, you know,
[10:23.400 -> 10:26.960] and then suddenly they're up there looking good. I know they were helped with the
[10:26.960 -> 10:30.760] qualifying a bit but Fernando was reasonably competitive and it looked
[10:30.760 -> 10:37.040] good for them. So you don't need much to be out of the window it seems with
[10:37.040 -> 10:48.440] some of these teams cars. Obviously the exception is Red Bull but they have maybe even they would say I mean Singapore caught
[10:48.440 -> 10:51.640] them out didn't it and it was a ride height change so these cars are very
[10:51.640 -> 10:59.040] very it seems to me dependent on precise setup for each particular track and if
[10:59.040 -> 11:05.360] you get out of the window and the competition being as tight as it is now, then you really are hammered.
[11:05.540 -> 11:10.320] But I mean, I know Toto operates a no-blame culture,
[11:10.320 -> 11:11.920] but he seemed to be taking all the blame for himself,
[11:11.920 -> 11:12.160] didn't he?
[11:12.160 -> 11:16.440] Then he seemed willing to admit that it wasn't acceptable,
[11:16.520 -> 11:22.640] but it's half weekend and Lewis underlined it by,
[11:23.140 -> 11:27.320] you know, admitting that this is not where he thought he'd be by this time
[11:27.320 -> 11:28.320] at the end of the season.
[11:28.320 -> 11:29.760] But it could have been just a one-off.
[11:29.760 -> 11:32.560] We've got two more races to find out.
[11:32.560 -> 11:39.040] Naomi, just try and explain how a car goes, because it's so inconsistent.
[11:39.040 -> 11:47.400] So how can Lewis go from finishing P2 in Mexico to finishing in P8 in Brazil?
[11:47.400 -> 11:48.720] How does that happen?
[11:49.840 -> 11:53.240] Well, look, I think that's something that, you know, unfortunately for Mercedes,
[11:53.240 -> 11:57.720] we maybe thought or thought that they'd passed that phase, because if you look back to last season,
[11:57.720 -> 12:01.440] obviously, new generation car, they started the season off pretty poorly.
[12:01.440 -> 12:05.200] And every time they brought an upgrade to that car where they thought
[12:05.200 -> 12:10.000] there might be a glimmer of hope, it sometimes went in the opposite direction and I think there's
[12:10.000 -> 12:14.160] been a lot of confusion with this car of when they set it up it tends to do things that they
[12:14.160 -> 12:19.040] weren't expecting. We all thought that they had passed that phase and I think this weekend just
[12:19.040 -> 12:25.560] proved again that actually it's all about that that operational window and where the car does and doesn't work.
[12:25.560 -> 12:28.560] And clearly they are still very much on the fence there.
[12:28.560 -> 12:32.740] And I think, you know, it is possible
[12:32.740 -> 12:34.760] with these types of cars, as Damon was pointing out,
[12:34.760 -> 12:38.000] that they are just so sensitive to set up.
[12:38.000 -> 12:41.600] And I think it's a good thing for them right now
[12:41.600 -> 12:42.900] to have a weekend like this,
[12:42.900 -> 12:44.400] because sometimes when you have
[12:44.400 -> 12:50.400] too much of a positive trajectory, you start to think things are fine and given the fact that they aren't
[12:50.400 -> 12:54.240] fighting for the championship this season obviously they're still in a title battle
[12:54.240 -> 12:59.520] with Ferrari and they only lost two points to Ferrari this weekend but it's good for them to
[12:59.520 -> 13:04.160] recognize that actually the changes that they make into the car for next year I think there's
[13:04.160 -> 13:09.440] there has been a bit of doubt on the concept perspective, like, do they stick to this concept? Do they
[13:09.440 -> 13:13.280] not? They kind of have gone in the direction that they weren't, but then when the car starts
[13:13.280 -> 13:17.680] performing so positively, then they have doubts about the choice that they've made. So I think
[13:17.680 -> 13:21.640] this for them is just a big learning curve. You know, it's a good weekend to take away
[13:21.640 -> 13:30.400] a lot of learning. I think they've had weekends like this in the past. I think if you think back to even Singapore in 2015, they had a terrible weekend that they then
[13:30.400 -> 13:35.520] had a lot of learning from and took some positive things out of that. So it's coming at the right
[13:35.520 -> 13:40.240] time. And again, obviously, as I said, they only lost two points to Ferrari. So although it wasn't
[13:40.240 -> 13:47.000] great, it didn't put too much of a dent in what they're trying to achieve for the season.
[13:47.000 -> 14:00.800] Damon, on that, do you think, say Brazil last year when George won the race, do you almost
[14:00.800 -> 14:05.840] think a bit like what Noem is saying there, when that happens with this concept of car,
[14:05.840 -> 14:11.680] that's almost a bad thing because it's kind of going, oh well actually maybe the concept isn't so bad,
[14:11.680 -> 14:13.920] perhaps if we keep going down this route we'll get there,
[14:13.920 -> 14:18.320] whereas actually maybe you need more weekends like they've just had to go, actually no,
[14:18.320 -> 14:25.280] 100% this is the wrong concept, next year, in the redesign of this car we have to start from zero.
[14:25.280 -> 14:30.260] They know it's wrong, they've admitted that as much you know this season
[14:30.260 -> 14:34.040] they've but they can't do anything with this car so you have to wait till next
[14:34.040 -> 14:39.080] year that's why Lewis is so keen to say goodbye to this car because they can't
[14:39.080 -> 14:43.760] there's only so much you can do with a fundamental design and the word concept
[14:43.760 -> 14:50.380] I know they don't want to use it but there are parameters within the design of this 2023 car which they
[14:50.380 -> 14:53.440] can't get around until they design a completely new car so back in the
[14:53.440 -> 14:58.120] factory they will be designing a completely new car that doesn't have any
[14:58.120 -> 15:02.160] resemblance or very few resemblances to this this year's car but they can't
[15:02.160 -> 15:10.920] simply change this car so they're stuck they know they've been they've been they went up the wrong design route from the
[15:10.920 -> 15:15.360] beginning it took me a year to admit or maybe even more me to admit that it was
[15:15.360 -> 15:19.680] wrong they've admitted they've changed some things and they're heading back
[15:19.680 -> 15:22.400] probably they believe in the right direction but they won't know until they
[15:22.400 -> 15:27.440] get their hands on next year's car and that's always a bit of an anxious situation to
[15:27.440 -> 15:32.440] be in I think there's a there's a in some ways you know if you got okay it's
[15:32.440 -> 15:36.760] good that you have to get the setup right it's good that the teams have
[15:36.760 -> 15:44.520] work to do to provide a competitive car it's not good when you've got one team
[15:44.520 -> 15:47.600] able to just simply do whatever they like
[15:47.600 -> 15:54.760] when they turn up it seems to me. And they've got such an advantage that it is, they're
[15:54.760 -> 15:59.640] probably out of the window to the same degree that say Mercedes is occasionally or Aston
[15:59.640 -> 16:10.180] Martin is, but it doesn't affect them as much because they still have a margin to play with. So these cars are very fickle and it's I would guess mostly to do with the ride height, mostly
[16:10.180 -> 16:14.440] to do with the proximity to the ground.
[16:14.440 -> 16:21.640] If you take a plunger and you stick it on a window, okay, you try and pull it off, if
[16:21.640 -> 16:25.280] you've got a perfect seal you could you could hang off the
[16:25.280 -> 16:29.000] ceiling with one of those things you know a vacuum under a car is an
[16:29.000 -> 16:33.200] enormously powerful thing but unfortunately it goes up in a very very
[16:33.200 -> 16:39.720] sharp rate now you could change the rate at which it goes up by increasing the
[16:39.720 -> 16:44.080] ride height and they've got a very simple cheap device for doing that and
[16:44.080 -> 16:50.680] it's called the plank which I always think is the wrong terminology for a sport as
[16:50.680 -> 16:55.720] sophisticated as Formula One to have a plank on a Formula One car but it's just
[16:55.720 -> 17:01.120] simply make the cars run a little bit higher that could that could make it
[17:01.120 -> 17:05.640] less volatile for all the teams it also reduced the overall downfalls of the cars
[17:05.640 -> 17:07.260] and make them slide around a bit more.
[17:07.260 -> 17:10.600] But everyone would say, well, Red Bull would just say,
[17:10.600 -> 17:11.440] well, that's totally unfair.
[17:11.440 -> 17:12.500] We've got our car working.
[17:12.500 -> 17:15.520] Why can't everyone else fix theirs?
[17:15.520 -> 17:18.400] And that's a very good point that Damon brings up
[17:18.400 -> 17:19.840] is that ride height.
[17:19.840 -> 17:22.400] And, you know, if you look back to Austin,
[17:22.400 -> 17:26.640] obviously Lewis was on the podium, so was the Ferrari.
[17:26.640 -> 17:31.000] And post-scrutineering, they recognized that the cars were running too low.
[17:31.000 -> 17:34.600] And now that's a big question mark that we've all had over the weekend is, were Mercedes
[17:34.600 -> 17:36.160] playing it safe?
[17:36.160 -> 17:39.200] Were they being a little bit too cautious in terms of their ride height?
[17:39.200 -> 17:42.440] And did they then ultimately suffer for it?
[17:42.440 -> 17:46.960] They also had quite a large rear wing on the car, I guess to compensate
[17:46.960 -> 17:52.640] a little bit for that. And they therefore were also super exposed, even when in DRS,
[17:53.280 -> 17:57.760] that car was super draggy. And I just think that they just were not operating the right
[17:57.760 -> 18:03.920] window from a setup perspective. Yeah, it just it didn't, it didn't look great out there for them.
[18:04.800 -> 18:05.080] And we know, of course, the sprint weekends, if you don't get that right in FP1, it just didn't look great out there for them.
[18:05.080 -> 18:08.320] And we know of course the sprint weekends, if you don't get that right in FP1, it has
[18:08.320 -> 18:10.440] such a negative impact throughout.
[18:10.440 -> 18:15.040] If you look back at last year, don't forget that this race, Brazil was the race weekend
[18:15.040 -> 18:20.160] where Red Bull offered the same opportunity to Mercedes because they got their operational
[18:20.160 -> 18:23.080] window wrong because it was a sprint race weekend as well.
[18:23.080 -> 18:29.200] And they just led that car in the wrong direction. And therefore, you know, George had the opportunity to take both wins that weekend.
[18:29.200 -> 18:30.700] So it can happen that easily.
[18:30.700 -> 18:35.700] And I think we've seen so many teams this season have big swings in weekends like this.
[18:35.700 -> 18:38.500] Let's not forget that, you know, everyone's singing the praises of McLaren.
[18:38.500 -> 18:42.600] And of course, they deserve all of that because they've truly turned their situation around.
[18:42.600 -> 18:44.100] But they also have had an off weekend.
[18:44.100 -> 18:46.560] I mean, Monza, they were P8 and P12.
[18:46.560 -> 18:50.920] So it's not very uncommon across the grid for these types of weekends to happen.
[18:50.920 -> 18:54.560] And again, I think that's because it's a characteristic of these new generation
[18:54.560 -> 18:59.720] Formula One cars that they are just, you know, limited in their window of performance.
[19:00.280 -> 19:02.720] Damon, I want to pick you up on something you said about Red Bull.
[19:03.080 -> 19:06.980] And we had Nico Rosberg on the podcast a few weeks ago.
[19:06.980 -> 19:12.520] And he was saying, entirely unrelated to Mercedes, he was saying about Checo, he was saying,
[19:12.520 -> 19:17.260] he feels that fans perhaps look at Checo and say, well, you've let us down this year because
[19:17.260 -> 19:22.540] you're in the fastest car to challenge and give us close racing, to give us battles.
[19:22.540 -> 19:25.680] And I wonder if there's a sense with fans of F1, with Mercedes
[19:25.680 -> 19:31.280] now, it's, you know, you are eight-time Constructors' Champions in this era of Formula 1.
[19:31.280 -> 19:39.120] You are the ones who have the resources and the power to give us fans better racing, closer races.
[19:39.120 -> 19:43.680] Do you see a little bit of that argument? Can you see a bit of frustration amongst fans that
[19:43.680 -> 19:48.240] we don't have closer racing, that actually Mercedes are the ones with the power to change it?
[19:48.240 -> 19:56.200] I think even Dutch fans, Max fans, would want to see Max doing what he does in battle conditions.
[19:56.200 -> 20:01.080] I think that it is great to see what they've done, it's incredible what they've achieved,
[20:01.080 -> 20:05.160] but we love racing, they love racing.
[20:05.160 -> 20:07.280] They, you know, Max was out.
[20:07.280 -> 20:07.560] I don't know.
[20:07.720 -> 20:11.320] I don't remember seeing much of Max in the Sao Paolo Grand Prix.
[20:11.320 -> 20:12.440] He was out there going around.
[20:12.440 -> 20:17.200] And I think he was asked a question by whoever did the interviews.
[20:17.200 -> 20:17.560] I can't remember.
[20:17.680 -> 20:23.440] Anyway, afterwards, who was saying, well, do you have trouble concentrating
[20:23.440 -> 20:24.440] with that far ahead?
[20:24.440 -> 20:25.240] You know, is it difficult to keep your mind on the job when you're in front? were saying well, do you have trouble concentrating with that far ahead, you know?
[20:28.000 -> 20:28.560] Is it difficult to keep your mind on the job?
[20:33.080 -> 20:33.600] when you're in front and he kind of I think he kind of admits mitted sort of it is
[20:35.600 -> 20:36.480] you're still stuff to do but
[20:39.120 -> 20:40.520] And Lander was keeping him honest, but you know
[20:42.400 -> 20:46.560] You know something you get applauded I've been been in races where I've won by a country mile
[20:46.560 -> 20:48.280] and everyone says, what an amazing performance.
[20:48.280 -> 20:50.480] And you sort of want to go, well, to be honest,
[20:50.480 -> 20:53.360] it wasn't that difficult because everything went for me,
[20:53.360 -> 20:54.560] right, you know, the right way.
[20:54.560 -> 20:58.080] And I just had to not make a mistake.
[20:58.080 -> 21:01.400] So, you know, the things that you remember,
[21:01.400 -> 21:05.040] things that we love about sport is the brilliant overtakes. I
[21:05.040 -> 21:10.720] mean, I mean Lewis on the first lap, was it first lap or second lap? Down the outside of,
[21:11.280 -> 21:17.040] was it Czechow I think, and it was, that was a brave, brave move, you know, and those things are
[21:17.680 -> 21:23.200] what we live for, you know, he, he showed his brilliance and also the race with Fernando,
[21:23.200 -> 21:25.160] we all get to the edge of our seats again.
[21:25.160 -> 21:28.560] So we do want it, how you get it,
[21:28.560 -> 21:29.880] this has always been like this for me.
[21:29.880 -> 21:31.240] I mean, I used to watch, you know,
[21:31.240 -> 21:34.640] Jackie Stewart go off into the distance in the 1970s
[21:34.640 -> 21:37.440] and, you know, he'd go past and then you wait a minute
[21:37.440 -> 21:38.640] and then someone else would go past
[21:38.640 -> 21:42.360] and it went on for an hour and a half, nearly two hours.
[21:42.360 -> 21:45.600] So we mustn't get too
[21:45.600 -> 21:49.920] despondent, you know, it is, the coverage is much better than it was back then too.
[21:49.920 -> 21:53.520] So you didn't even see anything except when they went past you at the pit. So
[21:53.520 -> 22:00.880] anyway, yeah, I think they're right to say, okay, well who's gonna step up to
[22:00.880 -> 22:05.820] plate? Who is going to give us the challenge but on the
[22:05.820 -> 22:11.300] Mercedes point my anxiety is this which is that for a long time Mercedes
[22:11.300 -> 22:15.980] dominance we really was down to their power unit they had the best power unit
[22:15.980 -> 22:19.460] for a very long time and the aerodynamics were always slightly
[22:19.460 -> 22:25.880] different to Red Bulls and if you remember towards the end of their
[22:25.880 -> 22:32.280] previous formula regulations formula they persisted with their relatively
[22:32.280 -> 22:37.200] flat looking rake on the car whereas Red Bull were absolutely huge you know
[22:37.200 -> 22:39.940] that they led the way and everyone started following Red Bull with this
[22:39.940 -> 22:48.960] very very high rake it looked like a rat running along, didn't it, the car? It had a very high back and but Mercedes stuck
[22:48.960 -> 22:52.240] persistently with or doggedly with their other,
[22:52.240 -> 22:55.520] they looked like they were running a different aero concept on their car in
[22:55.520 -> 22:59.040] the previous regulations and then along come a new set
[22:59.040 -> 23:01.520] of regs.
[23:01.520 -> 23:07.280] What I'm saying is, is the Mercedes aero department missing a trick here?
[23:07.280 -> 23:11.600] And they've lost quite a few good aero people to other teams as well.
[23:11.600 -> 23:12.600] So over time.
[23:12.600 -> 23:19.160] Naomi, I was going to ask you as well, obviously, with regards to what the drivers are going
[23:19.160 -> 23:23.760] to be thinking here, because I mean, Lewis, this is this is one of his quotes from from
[23:23.760 -> 23:27.760] post race on Sunday, the Red Bull is so far away that they are probably going to be very clear for the
[23:27.760 -> 23:32.880] next couple of years, which, given that Lewis has a contract for two years, and you know,
[23:32.880 -> 23:36.360] is obviously getting on I mean, Fernando will come on to Fernando Alonso a bit is obviously
[23:36.360 -> 23:42.040] performing at the very top of his game. But where do you think Lewis's head is at? Where
[23:42.040 -> 23:47.440] do you think George's head is at? They must be so frustrated, mustn't they?
[23:49.160 -> 23:50.560] Of course, look, of course. There's no two ways about it.
[23:50.560 -> 23:52.080] They're all there because they want to win.
[23:52.080 -> 23:56.960] I mean, one, for Lewis to come back after Abu Dhabi 2021
[23:56.960 -> 23:59.560] and not have the tools underneath him
[23:59.560 -> 24:03.240] to really fight back for that eighth world title,
[24:03.240 -> 24:04.480] hugely frustrating.
[24:04.480 -> 24:08.280] And then George, you know, biding his time for many, many years at Williams
[24:08.280 -> 24:12.740] in a car that kind of just drove around in circles and didn't often, you know,
[24:12.740 -> 24:16.880] there were some highlight moments, obviously, but to be then upgraded to this
[24:17.160 -> 24:21.240] Mercedes seat that everybody dreams of, and also not having the tools to properly
[24:21.240 -> 24:23.520] compete, of course, that's hugely frustrating.
[24:23.520 -> 24:27.160] And the problem is, whilst they're
[24:27.160 -> 24:30.600] working towards a better car, so is everybody else.
[24:30.600 -> 24:32.680] And unfortunately for them, and I
[24:32.680 -> 24:34.720] think that was highlighted this weekend as well,
[24:34.720 -> 24:37.660] that's also what helped to make this weekend look
[24:37.660 -> 24:39.820] even worse than what it was, was the fact
[24:39.820 -> 24:41.360] that Aston were back in the picture.
[24:41.360 -> 24:43.340] And everybody is working on their cars,
[24:43.340 -> 24:45.660] and they're all working towards something better.
[24:45.660 -> 24:46.900] And that includes Red Bull.
[24:46.900 -> 24:51.420] And because they started with such a strong base so early on, they can just build that
[24:51.420 -> 24:53.540] momentum forward quicker than others can.
[24:53.540 -> 24:58.900] But then you've got to ask yourself the question, how has a team like McLaren, who essentially
[24:58.900 -> 25:03.980] from at least the power unit perspective is a customer team of Mercedes, how have they
[25:03.980 -> 25:05.600] so dramatically been able to turn it around? How were Aston at the beginning have they so dramatically been able to turn it
[25:05.600 -> 25:09.520] around? How were Aston at the beginning of the season so dramatically able to turn it around?
[25:09.520 -> 25:15.440] And why is a team like Mercedes still struggling? And obviously, they didn't, you know,
[25:15.440 -> 25:20.320] bite the bullet at the beginning of the year or during, you know, the winter period last year to
[25:20.320 -> 25:27.760] completely change their concept. And I think there are some major regrets about that, because they could be much further forward today.
[25:27.760 -> 25:31.000] But when you're essentially working on a mechanical base
[25:31.000 -> 25:32.520] that is faulty, and you're just trying
[25:32.520 -> 25:37.480] to make the best of a situation, it's not going to be great.
[25:37.480 -> 25:38.860] But at the end of the day, they're
[25:38.860 -> 25:41.240] a team who's won multiple world championships.
[25:41.240 -> 25:43.140] They know how to build a car.
[25:43.140 -> 25:45.280] I have some faith that they will be able over this
[25:45.280 -> 25:52.800] winter to turn their situation around. But then again, as I say, Red Bull is so far up the road,
[25:52.800 -> 25:56.880] and they're doing the same thing over the winter period. So it's always going to be a question
[25:56.880 -> 26:00.240] mark to see where they end up next year. And I think that's the major frustration is that
[26:00.240 -> 26:03.680] no one really knows what Red Bull is cooking in their lab as well.
[26:03.680 -> 26:07.520] So it's a daunting prospect, isn't it, a faster Red Bull next year.
[26:07.520 -> 26:10.320] And obviously, we have to remember that this has already started, right?
[26:10.320 -> 26:14.060] The designers have already been working on the 2024 car, you know, over the last few
[26:14.060 -> 26:15.720] months and months before that.
[26:15.720 -> 26:19.720] So it's yeah, I mean, it's going to be very, very interesting to see where they all end
[26:19.720 -> 26:20.720] up.
[26:20.720 -> 26:21.720] And a good segue there.
[26:21.720 -> 26:22.720] You mentioned Aston Martin.
[26:22.720 -> 26:26.240] Let's, let's move on to a very positive story, I think,
[26:32.080 -> 26:37.200] in terms of Aston and Fernando Alonso, who really gave us a lot to shout about in the final few laps, well, final 16 laps, really, of that race. There's an amazing photo, and I'm sure most of
[26:37.200 -> 26:41.920] you have seen it online, of the sort of photo finish between Sergio Perez and Fernando Alonso.
[26:41.920 -> 26:45.080] Honestly, a sprinter's finish, when you look at the distance between them
[26:45.080 -> 26:46.520] and you think they've gone around so many laps
[26:46.520 -> 26:49.400] around a circuit, it's truly remarkable.
[26:49.400 -> 26:50.720] It was, for the record as well,
[26:50.720 -> 26:52.440] it was five one hundredths of a second
[26:52.440 -> 26:54.160] between Sergio Perez and Fernando Alonso.
[26:54.160 -> 26:56.040] This was an incredible battle.
[26:56.040 -> 26:59.420] Damon, one of Fernando's best drives,
[26:59.420 -> 27:01.680] would that be fair to say, across his whole career?
[27:01.680 -> 27:02.640] I can't, I can't.
[27:04.520 -> 27:12.920] They say you're as good as your last race, so yes. But, you know, I think also the other thing is that it was
[27:12.920 -> 27:19.520] only five hundredths of a second, but it was close, Cekir was overtaking. So when you see
[27:19.520 -> 27:24.120] the pictures that were taken just after the finish line, he's actually right on alongside
[27:24.120 -> 27:25.200] Fernando or he always past him.
[27:25.200 -> 27:29.600] So he was, it was incredible how it just basically, the photo was there
[27:29.600 -> 27:33.000] and then a fraction of a second later, Checo was past him.
[27:33.000 -> 27:39.400] So thrilling finish and also wonderful to watch the skill of the guy,
[27:39.400 -> 27:49.560] the thinking driver, the guy who's got everything it seems you need to have as a racing driver, what would we be getting if we could see that that brilliance at the
[27:49.560 -> 27:56.000] sharp end of Formula One on a weekly basis? You know, it is, he's definitely
[27:56.000 -> 28:03.720] underscored his right to be at the front of Formula One even in his dotage, 40
[28:03.720 -> 28:07.760] years older. So I mean he's lost none of his abilities it
[28:07.760 -> 28:14.240] appears, in fact he's more cunning than he ever was. Speaking of cunning, Nomi, how impressed
[28:14.240 -> 28:19.760] were you by his tactics if you can sort of call them that? His race craft in order to,
[28:20.720 -> 28:29.480] it felt so so so close for so long, just if you can just try and explain how he was able to maintain that closeness to Perez and eventually win.
[28:29.480 -> 28:33.040] I was just about to say if I were to say that I was impressed by that,
[28:33.040 -> 28:35.840] would that be undermining the skill of Fernando Alonso?
[28:35.840 -> 28:38.160] Because I think that for him is so predictable.
[28:38.160 -> 28:40.000] Like that's what we expect of him.
[28:40.000 -> 28:41.240] That's what we know he's really good at.
[28:41.240 -> 28:42.240] He's a thinking driver.
[28:42.240 -> 28:45.440] He's always got his head on his shoulders and he's always thinking ahead.
[28:45.440 -> 28:50.120] We saw the day before a lot of people becoming victim of the efficiency of these two DRS
[28:50.120 -> 28:51.120] zones.
[28:51.120 -> 28:56.760] So essentially going into turn one, you get a great DRS, you know, pull, make the move
[28:56.760 -> 29:02.800] into one, but then just after you exit three, you're into another DRS zone into four.
[29:02.800 -> 29:06.960] And a lot of people were just playing again, cat and mouse of, you know, get him into one,
[29:06.960 -> 29:09.200] but I get done before turn four.
[29:09.200 -> 29:11.520] So we did discuss it in our post show
[29:11.520 -> 29:13.120] after the sprint to say, well,
[29:13.120 -> 29:14.620] could you not play this more strategically
[29:14.620 -> 29:17.420] and just hang back in one, get as close as you can,
[29:17.420 -> 29:19.920] just make sure you get a good run,
[29:19.920 -> 29:21.840] good momentum through one, two, and three
[29:21.840 -> 29:22.920] to make sure you're in a position
[29:22.920 -> 29:29.280] to get that DRS down to four. And that's essentially what Fernando did. And I wonder, the question I
[29:29.280 -> 29:34.480] was asking myself was, could Checo have played it the other way around? Could he potentially have,
[29:34.480 -> 29:39.280] because, you know, I remember talking about our racing days as well. I remember there was one
[29:39.280 -> 29:43.840] track in karting that I would always go to in Cape Town and the back straight at the end of,
[29:44.800 -> 29:46.200] at the end of the lap,
[29:46.200 -> 29:48.200] there was always a really bad headwind.
[29:48.200 -> 29:50.060] And obviously there's no DRS in karting,
[29:50.060 -> 29:52.240] but if you duck behind a driver,
[29:52.240 -> 29:55.000] it essentially works in the same way as DRS does.
[29:55.000 -> 29:58.800] And I remember that you always wanted to be second
[29:58.800 -> 30:00.000] going into that last lap,
[30:00.000 -> 30:02.440] because if you were first, you were a sitting duck.
[30:02.440 -> 30:04.960] And so my question was sort of,
[30:04.960 -> 30:07.580] could Checo have taken the risk to put himself second,
[30:07.580 -> 30:09.020] or not second in this case,
[30:09.020 -> 30:11.340] but put himself behind Fernando
[30:11.340 -> 30:13.060] in order to be able to dictate the way
[30:13.060 -> 30:14.460] that that situation plays out?
[30:14.460 -> 30:16.260] Because Fernando was in the stronger position
[30:16.260 -> 30:18.420] by being behind going into four.
[30:18.420 -> 30:20.120] And he did exactly what he needed to do.
[30:20.120 -> 30:23.180] And then he did, he held on for dear life until that line.
[30:23.180 -> 30:24.900] And that was super enthralling to watch.
[30:24.900 -> 30:28.560] We were already walking towards the pit lane because we needed to do our post-show there
[30:28.560 -> 30:32.320] and we were trying desperately to spawn a monitor so we could see what was happening,
[30:32.320 -> 30:38.000] but super exciting stuff and a great way to end a race that had been a little bit boring
[30:38.000 -> 30:51.840] for a while, but yeah, they definitely put on a great show for us those two.
[30:51.840 -> 30:55.000] Sorry one thing to pick you up on there, how on earth do you duck in a car?
[30:55.000 -> 30:56.000] Are you like limbo?
[30:56.000 -> 30:57.000] Is it limbo?
[30:57.000 -> 31:00.160] Are you like leaning back or are you leaning forward?
[31:00.160 -> 31:01.160] Leaning forward.
[31:01.160 -> 31:04.480] Leaning back would be, I don't know, that would be a great idea.
[31:04.480 -> 31:05.160] No.
[31:05.160 -> 31:09.320] Pleasant seat, but you've got no belts in karting, right? So it's very easy. You just
[31:09.320 -> 31:12.200] put your head in, you know, duck behind the steering wheel.
[31:12.200 -> 31:13.200] Oh my goodness.
[31:13.200 -> 31:14.200] Yeah, and slipstream.
[31:14.200 -> 31:18.160] Wow. Extraordinary. I'd like to see them do that in Formula One.
[31:18.160 -> 31:21.080] There's a lot of ducking going. You wouldn't believe actually, Matt, how much ducking there
[31:21.080 -> 31:26.000] is going on in motor racing. I mean, it used to be a problem with the air, the air box.
[31:26.000 -> 31:28.800] If you're a slightly tall driver, you wouldn't get enough pressure
[31:28.800 -> 31:30.000] in the air box behind you.
[31:30.000 -> 31:33.200] So you literally go down the straight with your head as low as
[31:33.200 -> 31:33.600] possible.
[31:33.600 -> 31:38.300] You slump down into the cockpit and all these, yeah, partly it's
[31:38.300 -> 31:40.700] kind of psychological.
[31:40.700 -> 31:45.640] I think you think you're helping but but it's I can remember I came
[31:45.640 -> 31:50.040] from bike racing and so your head forward in a, you know, when you're racing
[31:50.040 -> 31:54.880] on a bike and when I went to cars, pictures of me driving, you can see I'm
[31:54.880 -> 31:58.660] straining at the leash. I'm trying to strain the straps. I'm trying to put my
[31:58.660 -> 32:11.000] head forward as far as I can get. So, but you know, it's, it is great when you've got a situation where you've got the advantages to the, to the guy in second place, because you know it's coming.
[32:11.000 -> 32:26.560] You can sit there in anticipation and say, well, he's now got to defend and he can't change lines more than once. Yeah, so it is good, those sort of circuits, in the early days of racing it was underpowered
[32:26.560 -> 32:33.280] cars, the aerodynamics and the drag is such a factor in racing, how you use the ability
[32:33.280 -> 32:37.640] of the car to tow up to someone or the cart and get past, and you see it in bike racing
[32:37.640 -> 32:39.680] as well all the time.
[32:39.680 -> 32:41.640] Fascinating, fascinating.
[32:41.640 -> 32:47.720] And in terms of the performance for Fernando Fernando there and indeed Damon the performance for
[32:48.280 -> 32:53.040] Both Lance Stroll he finished p5 and and Lance obviously finished p3 got on the podium
[32:53.040 -> 32:57.480] That was a that was a very good weekend for a team that if you remember at the start of the weekend
[32:57.480 -> 33:01.160] There was all sorts of rumors about Fernando Alonso. Would he leave? Was he yeah
[33:01.560 -> 33:03.940] It was he exhausted from the project Aston?
[33:03.940 -> 33:06.000] What did he not see much hope for the future there?
[33:06.000 -> 33:09.000] But by the end of the weekend, the narrative completely changed.
[33:09.000 -> 33:13.000] I know. How can you plan for anything when it's going to be up and down to that degree?
[33:13.000 -> 33:18.000] I mean, I literally had Fernando Downers giving up on Aston Martin.
[33:18.000 -> 33:22.000] The car was parked in the last two or the previous two races.
[33:22.000 -> 33:26.000] He looked dejected. And you don't want a dejected
[33:26.000 -> 33:34.500] Fernando Alonso, you know, he doesn't like being humiliated by the performance of things beyond his control.
[33:34.500 -> 33:40.200] And then the next, did he even predict that?
[33:40.200 -> 33:43.800] I know that there was a bit of help with the qualifying, but you know,
[33:43.800 -> 33:48.000] but even so, tremendous opportunity for him and
[33:48.400 -> 33:51.700] what a bounce back. Mike Crack, I think, I think they've done,
[33:52.100 -> 33:53.700] I think Mike Crack is very good.
[33:53.800 -> 33:58.100] I think that that team, they seem to have the right approach
[33:58.100 -> 34:02.000] to, I think he mentioned it actually in Teth Notebook.
[34:02.000 -> 34:06.500] He said that they were down, but they didn't start blaming each other.
[34:06.700 -> 34:11.000] You know, this is a guy's come from Ferrari and I can I can probably
[34:11.000 -> 34:15.600] say without saying something which is not been said before about
[34:15.600 -> 34:16.100] Ferraris.
[34:16.500 -> 34:18.700] I think their heads go down and then it's a problem.
[34:18.800 -> 34:23.600] Whereas the story from from Fernando was that after the bad results
[34:24.100 -> 34:28.000] within Aston Martin, they got
[34:28.000 -> 34:32.360] the right approach and they learned from what they got wrong and they come back and they've
[34:32.360 -> 34:34.840] fixed it and he's happy about that.
[34:34.840 -> 34:42.840] Now that would definitely come from someone like Mike at the top to get everyone to deal
[34:42.840 -> 34:46.400] with the challenge in the right way.
[34:46.400 -> 34:48.360] Naomi, is that the complete opposite
[34:48.360 -> 34:50.200] of what's going on at Mercedes in the sense
[34:50.200 -> 34:52.240] of they really seem to understand
[34:52.240 -> 34:55.120] at Aston what's going on with their car,
[34:55.120 -> 34:56.540] whether it's positive or negative.
[34:56.540 -> 34:59.360] And that's been the case over the last three, four months.
[34:59.360 -> 35:01.040] Whereas at Mercedes, it doesn't really
[35:01.040 -> 35:03.520] feel like they know what's wrong with the car.
[35:03.520 -> 35:06.280] And it's very hard to fix a car that you don't know what's wrong with, right?
[35:08.320 -> 35:11.200] I'm not entirely sure, to be honest, because, you know,
[35:11.600 -> 35:14.240] Aston started the year incredibly strong
[35:14.720 -> 35:17.800] and they were definitely the talking point of the first,
[35:18.200 -> 35:19.600] you know, handful of races.
[35:19.600 -> 35:22.960] We were all super excited about what this means
[35:22.960 -> 35:24.720] and will we see a victory from Fernando?
[35:24.720 -> 35:28.120] And there was a lot of talk about the team and a lot of positivity around it but
[35:28.120 -> 35:31.760] they definitely took step backwards as well so how much they really understand
[35:31.760 -> 35:35.040] their car as well is a little bit up in the air you know they did loads of
[35:35.040 -> 35:41.040] development on the car brought an update to to Austin that they you know were not
[35:41.040 -> 35:46.040] expecting to perform terribly so they there are these moments where they're having this development,
[35:46.040 -> 35:48.640] they're seeing one thing in the simulations,
[35:48.640 -> 35:50.120] they're seeing one thing in the wind tunnel,
[35:50.120 -> 35:51.320] but then putting it on the car,
[35:51.320 -> 35:52.840] it's reacting completely differently.
[35:52.840 -> 35:56.000] So that's why they ended up,
[35:56.000 -> 35:57.300] during Park4Make conditions,
[35:57.300 -> 35:59.960] deciding to remove all of those upgrades from the car
[35:59.960 -> 36:01.640] and going back to what they had before
[36:01.640 -> 36:03.240] and that was working better.
[36:03.240 -> 36:04.240] This weekend, apparently,
[36:04.240 -> 36:07.040] they've taken a combination of what they've had before
[36:07.040 -> 36:09.480] and some of the parts they took off in Austin
[36:09.480 -> 36:10.660] and made a combination.
[36:10.660 -> 36:13.240] And that potentially works for a different track.
[36:13.240 -> 36:15.980] So it again goes down to what Damon was saying earlier
[36:15.980 -> 36:18.700] about how specific the setup is to each circuit
[36:18.700 -> 36:21.240] is what it seems like for quite a lot of the teams.
[36:21.240 -> 36:23.860] And I guess it is somewhat a bit of a gamble,
[36:23.860 -> 36:25.520] whether you get that right or wrong
[36:25.520 -> 36:31.440] and I don't think that although Mercedes seem to suffer from this quite regularly and I think
[36:31.440 -> 36:35.920] recently it's been better but they aren't the only ones suffering with this issue and
[36:35.920 -> 36:40.400] although there's something that they aren't understanding there I think it's quite a global
[36:40.400 -> 36:46.080] issue across all the teams other than probably Red Bull. Fickle.
[36:46.080 -> 36:49.120] Fickle Formula One, to coin a David Hill phrase
[36:49.120 -> 36:50.320] from earlier in the podcast.
[36:50.320 -> 36:51.680] Getting back to your point, Matt,
[36:51.680 -> 36:55.600] was do they understand what they've done wrong?
[36:55.600 -> 36:59.160] And I think with the floor, they made a good step forward
[36:59.160 -> 37:01.480] when they brought a new floor in for, was it Austin?
[37:01.480 -> 37:03.240] And the car performed well.
[37:03.240 -> 37:05.200] So I think we have seen
[37:05.200 -> 37:08.800] this before with other teams where they brought an upgrade even even McLaren
[37:08.800 -> 37:14.000] they brought an upgrade and it didn't work to start with and they kind of but
[37:14.000 -> 37:16.700] they persisted and there's other things that's what I mean about fickle you know
[37:16.700 -> 37:24.000] this this these these games they're trying to get on the car and what what
[37:24.000 -> 37:26.300] Nomi was saying about the correlation between the theory and what what what Naomi was saying about the correlation
[37:26.300 -> 37:30.000] between the theory and the wind tunnel in the actual performance.
[37:30.000 -> 37:36.000] It's very difficult to get any kind of consistency of information.
[37:36.000 -> 37:43.200] So they're working sometimes in a little bit of a of a less precise
[37:43.200 -> 37:44.600] area.
[37:44.600 -> 37:48.000] So they get they don't get pure information but it takes them time.
[37:48.000 -> 37:49.700] Now we were talking about Red Bull.
[37:49.700 -> 37:53.800] The thing is, there's two ways to crack these problems.
[37:53.800 -> 37:57.300] One is you spend, if you call it man hours, you can have more people,
[37:57.300 -> 38:00.800] double the people working for the same amount of time and you'll get
[38:00.800 -> 38:04.700] there if they're working to the right plan, you'll get there before
[38:04.700 -> 38:08.400] the other people or you can have the same amount of people working for double the amount of time and you'll get there if they're working to the right plan, you'll get there before the other people or you can have the same amount of people working
[38:08.400 -> 38:13.760] for double the amount of time. Now Red Bull, they've not had to fix problems, it
[38:13.760 -> 38:17.640] doesn't seem, this year. They've been able to focus on next year so they're already
[38:17.640 -> 38:21.560] like months ahead of all the others who've been trying to get their current
[38:21.560 -> 38:26.300] car to work and that's the only thing that doesn't bode well for next year is that
[38:26.300 -> 38:30.600] you, you know, if you get asked them, Mercedes have had to find the
[38:30.600 -> 38:34.200] direction first before they can start developing next year's car.
[38:34.200 -> 38:38.300] And that's that is the that is the million-dollar question or the
[38:38.300 -> 38:42.300] billion-dollar question, wherever it is now in F1, you know, it is
[38:42.300 -> 38:45.760] whether or not they really do have a clue about what to do.
[38:45.760 -> 38:53.040] And I think Lewis will be asking Toto every day, are you sure, you know, you've got this
[38:53.040 -> 38:59.620] right because he was very forceful in saying, I don't believe in this current concept when
[38:59.620 -> 39:00.960] they came in with the new regs.
[39:00.960 -> 39:05.520] So anyway, this is Formula One, the pressure is huge.
[39:10.240 -> 39:16.480] Yeah, yeah. And you alluded to it there billions of pounds at stake, really, with with with the future of this. I think that concludes Brazil and the two topics I want to talk about with Brazil.
[39:16.480 -> 39:20.240] Final thing I want to get your thoughts on before we go is Vegas. We've obviously
[39:20.240 -> 39:24.960] got Las Vegas next week. It's come around oh so quickly. I can't believe we're actually going
[39:24.960 -> 39:26.600] to go racing on the strip in Las Vegas
[39:26.600 -> 39:32.340] But there we are and the last time we were there was in 1981 in 1982, which was in the Caesars Palace car park
[39:32.340 -> 39:37.120] I don't know if anyone Damon you have any recollection of that at all or you watched it on telly or no
[39:37.120 -> 39:41.620] I was not but I wasn't actually following formal on that closely at that in those days
[39:41.620 -> 39:48.120] I remember the the Clive James in Las Vegas Vegas documentary that he did was was utterly brilliant.
[39:48.120 -> 39:54.040] I mean, it was it was a very it's definitely worth everyone should watch that again.
[39:54.040 -> 39:57.640] But it it was in a car park.
[39:57.640 -> 40:00.680] It was they America wasn't turned on to they.
[40:00.680 -> 40:02.760] They just thought, who are these people?
[40:02.760 -> 40:05.080] They've come from Europe we
[40:05.080 -> 40:08.280] don't understand what they do put them in the car park let them have their day
[40:08.280 -> 40:13.440] and you know you could tell it was kind of only very few Americans North
[40:13.440 -> 40:18.440] Americans understood Formula One or wanted it there and so it it was a
[40:18.440 -> 40:26.680] backwater event now it's not it is main stage take basically taken they bought Las Vegas and did you
[40:26.680 -> 40:35.320] see the you to concert did you see the the Bono's tribute or mention of f1 in
[40:35.320 -> 40:40.760] the in the globe what's it called the dome the sphere the sphere they're there
[40:40.760 -> 40:46.520] they're there they're kind of residents there and so they Bono came on stage and said something like
[40:46.520 -> 40:48.800] the words of vector of, well, we've got to leave now
[40:48.800 -> 40:51.320] because we're handing over to Formula One.
[40:51.320 -> 40:53.700] And so he went around the band and gave names
[40:53.700 -> 40:56.120] to all the members of the band as racing drivers.
[40:56.120 -> 40:58.520] And he declared himself to be Daniel Ricciardo.
[40:59.400 -> 41:03.040] And he gave all the band different names,
[41:03.040 -> 41:03.860] Formula One drivers.
[41:03.860 -> 41:11.400] So yeah, Las Vegas will be F1 next weekend.
[41:11.400 -> 41:12.280] Is it next weekend?
[41:12.280 -> 41:13.920] No, it's next week.
[41:13.920 -> 41:14.400] Yes.
[41:14.400 -> 41:14.900] Yes.
[41:14.900 -> 41:15.400] Next weekend.
[41:15.400 -> 41:16.200] Not this weekend.
[41:16.200 -> 41:17.120] Come in the weekend after.
[41:17.120 -> 41:17.620] Yeah.
[41:17.620 -> 41:20.120] I dare say the tickets are going to be cheaper than they were,
[41:20.120 -> 41:21.920] perhaps, in the car park in Caesars Palace.
[41:21.920 -> 41:24.120] I think they're going to be slightly more expensive.
[41:24.120 -> 41:27.840] I think just about £3.50 for an hour's parking I think in those days.
[41:29.280 -> 41:32.720] Yeah. Naomi, you went to the launch, didn't you? Which I guess was about a year ago,
[41:32.720 -> 41:35.280] is that right? Exactly a year ago.
[41:35.280 -> 41:39.760] What are you expecting from Las Vegas this time around?
[41:40.640 -> 41:45.240] Well, so I firstly won't be there, which I'm very sad about because it seems like Las Vegas,
[41:45.240 -> 41:49.840] although it is the penultimate race of the season, is something we've been talking about
[41:49.840 -> 41:50.840] all year long.
[41:50.840 -> 41:52.800] It's obviously very exciting for the sport.
[41:52.800 -> 41:55.560] It's something that's been built up quite a lot.
[41:55.560 -> 41:57.000] There's a lot going into it.
[41:57.000 -> 42:01.600] I hear that if you're there as a spectator, it's going to be incredible.
[42:01.600 -> 42:05.040] There are obviously no support series racing, so it's just the F1
[42:05.040 -> 42:10.080] sessions and therefore they have plenty of entertainment planned for around the event.
[42:10.080 -> 42:14.560] So I think it's going to be a fantastic one to attend. Obviously, these types of races always
[42:14.560 -> 42:19.120] have been growing pains when it's the first time around. There's always stuff to learn,
[42:19.120 -> 42:22.400] and especially with the challenge of shutting down the strip and all of that.
[42:23.200 -> 42:30.320] But I do definitely think it's going to be one that's going to throw a spanner in the works because statistically it's looking like it might
[42:30.320 -> 42:36.480] be the coldest race in the history of F1. I know everyone thinks okay in Las Vegas, Nevada,
[42:36.480 -> 42:41.680] the desert must be hot. Well it is during the day but it's not at night and qualifying will be at
[42:41.680 -> 42:47.200] midnight local time. The race I think is 10pm local time, something to that extent.
[42:47.200 -> 42:50.200] And from what I remember last year is that it was very cold.
[42:50.200 -> 42:53.800] So I think they're looking at temperatures of around 5 to 8 degrees,
[42:53.800 -> 42:56.600] which is going to be very cold. Street track.
[42:56.600 -> 43:00.200] Yeah, I think there's definitely... I'm scared of laughing.
[43:00.200 -> 43:03.200] It's going to be funny watching everyone with puffer jackets and woolly hats
[43:03.200 -> 43:09.860] and you know, in the pit lane and stuff. The drivers won't need those ice jackets. They wear before they get in the car
[43:09.860 -> 43:15.140] That's for sure. I'll put hot water in them. Yes, I'll be replace it with hot water bottles will be the order of the day
[43:15.800 -> 43:21.480] Here we can get Lando and get him snuggling give me his teddy and his top of the bottle put him in his car
[43:21.480 -> 43:23.480] Yeah, just joking
[43:24.840 -> 43:25.200] By the sounds of things they have been allocated more soft tires bottle, put him in his car. No, just joking.
[43:27.960 -> 43:29.760] By the sounds of things, they have been allocated more soft tyres. I think it's probably because of that reason.
[43:30.120 -> 43:34.320] And yeah, I think it's probably coming at the right time
[43:34.320 -> 43:37.000] because we need something to spice things up.
[43:37.520 -> 43:41.000] Max has obviously sealed the driver's title.
[43:41.160 -> 43:44.400] Red Bull have clinched the constructors title races ago.
[43:44.720 -> 43:45.960] So what's left? There's obviously the battle with Mercedes have clinched the constructors title, races a go. So what's left?
[43:45.960 -> 43:51.960] There's obviously the battle with Mercedes and Ferrari for the constructors and others.
[43:51.960 -> 43:56.720] There's still a battle between Lewis and Fernando for third in the drivers.
[43:56.720 -> 44:00.320] Obviously there's still the battle with Lewis and Checo.
[44:00.320 -> 44:02.040] I don't know if that's out of touch now.
[44:02.040 -> 44:04.920] I think it's 36 points between the two of them now.
[44:04.920 -> 44:07.680] So I don't know if that's out of touch now. I think it's 36 points between the two of them now. So I don't know if that's just on the limit,
[44:07.680 -> 44:10.900] but a lot of, yeah, exciting things still to come.
[44:10.900 -> 44:13.520] And I think Vegas is definitely gonna,
[44:13.520 -> 44:15.120] I don't know if it's gonna make exciting racing.
[44:15.120 -> 44:16.520] Obviously we've never raced on this track before,
[44:16.520 -> 44:19.420] but I think all the factors around it are gonna make for,
[44:19.420 -> 44:21.900] I think a bit of things being thrown up in the air
[44:21.900 -> 44:22.740] a little bit.
[44:22.740 -> 44:24.920] So yes, it's a new track for everyone,
[44:25.840 -> 44:27.120] sort of an equal playing field.
[44:28.240 -> 44:31.680] Damon, if you were asked back in the day, if you were asked,
[44:31.680 -> 44:36.560] Damon, you've got a race, or you've got to go to your quali session now, it's midnight.
[44:37.440 -> 44:42.400] Do you not think that, how are the drivers going to deal with that? It's a completely skewed,
[44:42.400 -> 44:48.640] I mean, not just the drivers, the whole team, it's so skewed into the evening, which no one is used to in Formula One.
[44:48.640 -> 44:51.880] I think they're used to jet lag anyway, aren't they? I mean, they seem to be able to, I can
[44:51.880 -> 44:55.600] remember the biggest problem for racing when I was doing it was jet lag when you go to
[44:55.600 -> 45:00.680] places like Japan. But of course, you're going west, so you're missing your bedtime. They've
[45:00.680 -> 45:10.200] already been out there in the US anyway, in Mexico and so they're on they're on that that time scale but they'll find a way don't
[45:10.200 -> 45:14.520] worry they've got they've got experts dealing with all this and they will be
[45:14.520 -> 45:17.240] getting it they'll be getting up late at least they'll be going oh well don't
[45:17.240 -> 45:21.760] have to get up till you know about 12 o'clock midday or something so they'll
[45:21.760 -> 45:26.440] be right it's going back going back sorryomi, it's going back the other way.
[45:26.520 -> 45:27.960] That's the that's going to really
[45:28.440 -> 45:29.240] Abu Dhabi.
[45:29.240 -> 45:31.240] God knows what we're going to end up with in Abu Dhabi.
[45:31.280 -> 45:33.120] We're going to get a lot of a lot of sleepy drivers and
[45:33.440 -> 45:35.400] exactly. And mechanics and people.
[45:36.240 -> 45:38.560] I think it works out to be 13 hours
[45:38.880 -> 45:41.080] when you go from Vegas to Abu Dhabi.
[45:41.120 -> 45:43.040] That's a 13 hour time adjustment.
[45:43.080 -> 45:45.400] So that's going gonna be very interesting.
[45:45.400 -> 45:48.880] But we get paid for it, so no sympathy.
[45:48.880 -> 45:51.200] Yeah, no sympathy here.
[45:51.200 -> 45:53.580] On that note, we will leave it there.
[45:53.580 -> 45:55.700] Damon, Naomi, thank you very much for your time.
[45:55.700 -> 45:56.540] Really appreciate it.
[45:56.540 -> 45:58.280] And thanks everyone for listening at home.
[45:58.280 -> 45:59.680] We'll be back next Tuesday.
[45:59.680 -> 46:00.520] Bye for now.
[45:55.310 -> 45:55.810] now.