The Siege of the FIA

Joe Saward unpacks the drama around the latest FIA public disaster 

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**Navigating the Drama and Controversy Surrounding the FIA's Recent Actions**

* **The FIA's Controversial Actions:**

* The FIA's recent actions have been a source of controversy and drama within the Formula One community.
* Allegations of inappropriate links between FOM members and team principals, particularly targeting the Wolff family, have surfaced.
* The FIA's investigation into these allegations and the subsequent response from the accused parties have created a media frenzy.

* **FIA President Mohammed Ben Sulayem's Role:**

* Ben Sulayem's leadership has been under scrutiny due to his involvement in these controversies.
* His public statements and actions have drawn criticism from F1 teams, drivers, and fans.
* Ben Sulayem's handling of the situation has raised questions about his suitability as FIA president.

* **The FIA's Financial Reliance on Formula One:**

* The FIA receives a significant portion of its income from Formula One, estimated to be over 60% of its total revenue.
* This financial dependence creates a delicate balance between the FIA and FOM, as the teams and Liberty Media hold considerable power.
* The potential loss of income from Formula One could have severe consequences for the FIA's operations.

* **The Possibility of a Breakaway Series:**

* The ongoing tensions between the FIA and FOM have led to discussions about the possibility of a breakaway series.
* FOM, backed by the teams, could potentially create a new championship independent of the FIA.
* Such a breakaway series would face significant challenges, including the need for a new set of regulations and the loss of the "FIA Formula One World Championship" title.

* **The FIA's Limited Options:**

* The FIA's options in response to a breakaway series are limited due to its financial dependence on Formula One.
* Without the support of the teams and FOM, the FIA would struggle to create a competing championship.
* The FIA's best course of action may be to resolve the current controversies and maintain its relationship with Formula One.

* **The Importance of Resolving the Conflict:**

* The ongoing conflict between the FIA and FOM is damaging the reputation of both organizations and Formula One as a whole.
* A resolution is crucial to ensure the long-term stability and success of the sport.
* Both parties need to find common ground and work together to address the underlying issues. # FIA's Public Disaster: A Breakdown

**FIA and Formula One Dispute:**

- A power struggle between the FIA and Formula One teams has emerged, potentially leading to a breakaway.

- Some believe that the FIA's control over marshalling, race control, and track contracts makes a breakaway infeasible.

- Anti-competitive issues may arise if the FIA restricts tracks from working with other championships.

- The FIA's financial dependence on Formula One makes a split potentially disastrous for the organization.

**FIA President's Actions and Consequences:**

- Joe Saward criticizes the FIA president's actions as illogical and detrimental to the sport's stability.

- Saward believes that the FIA president's decisions could lead to an overthrow or uprising within the organization.

- The FIA's reputation and credibility are at stake due to the president's controversial actions.

- Good people working within the FIA may leave due to the negative publicity and association with the president's behavior.

**Spanish Grand Prix and Madrid Circuit:**

- The Spanish Grand Prix at the Catalunya circuit may be coming to an end due to various issues.

- The Madrid circuit, proposed as a replacement, is facing criticism for its street circuit design.

- Saward defends the Madrid circuit, highlighting its unique features and potential for exciting racing.

- He believes that the negative reactions to the circuit are based on a lack of understanding and misinformation.

**FIA's Sprint Races and Fan Response:**

- Saward criticizes the FIA's decision to drop sprint races, which were well-received by fans.

- He emphasizes the importance of fan engagement and the need for positive changes in the sport.

- Saward acknowledges that negative fan reactions are often prevalent on social media platforms.

**Street Circuits and Joe Saward's Stance:**

- Saward expresses his willingness to promote street circuits if offered incentives by the promoters.

- He believes that street circuits can be enjoyable and exciting if designed properly.

- Saward encourages promoters to invite him to street circuits in exchange for positive coverage.

**FIA President's Position and Future:**

- Saward believes that the FIA president's position is not untenable, but he needs to change his approach.

- If the president continues his current course of action, the situation could quickly deteriorate.

- Saward hopes that the president will recognize the need for a change in strategy.

**Lewis Hamilton's Statement:**

- Lewis Hamilton criticizes the FIA for questioning the integrity of Suzy Wolf, a respected female leader in motorsport.

- Hamilton emphasizes the importance of diversity and inclusion in the sport and calls for a change in the FIA's leadership.

- Saward believes that the FIA president needs to address these concerns and improve the organization's image.

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[02:22.560 -> 02:33.320] You are listening to Missed AKES.com You are listening to missed Apex podcast. We live F1
[02:42.320 -> 02:48.320] Welcome to missed Apex podcast. No this isn't the next part of our season review in many,
[02:48.320 -> 02:55.640] many parts. I'm dropping in for like an emergency drama vibe check because this has been my
[02:55.640 -> 03:04.480] favourite ever winter episode of F1, sure, of The Only Way Is The FIA. The soap opera
[03:04.480 -> 03:06.900] that is bound to end in someone having an
[03:06.900 -> 03:12.440] evil twin has been unfolding all over our social media feeds. There has been accusations
[03:12.440 -> 03:20.080] of inappropriate links between FOM members and team principals, mainly aimed at the wolves.
[03:20.080 -> 03:30.800] So instead of just me guessing and telling you what I reckon, which I am inclined to do, why not bring one of the very few regular paddock journalists that is all over this
[03:30.800 -> 03:31.800] news feed.
[03:31.800 -> 03:33.280] We are joined, of course, by Uncle Joe.
[03:33.280 -> 03:34.280] Joe, say a word.
[03:34.280 -> 03:35.280] How's it going, Joe?
[03:35.280 -> 03:36.280] Very good.
[03:36.280 -> 03:39.720] I'm having a nice quiet time away from Formula One, in theory.
[03:39.720 -> 03:45.680] Well, I've seen that you've upset the entirety of the Sergio Pérez fan base, me included.
[03:45.680 -> 03:50.320] How dare you slightly mention Daniel Ricciardo having some clauses in his contract?
[03:50.320 -> 03:55.400] Well, I'm terribly sorry for mentioning the fact that this exists, but it does.
[03:55.400 -> 03:58.880] And if that upsets Sergio Pérez fans and makes them abusive, that's fine.
[03:58.880 -> 04:03.920] I'm happy to block any abusive Sergio Pérez fan.
[04:03.920 -> 04:06.000] I've blocked hundreds of them, actually, because they're so rude.
[04:07.840 -> 04:12.080] They don't have any sort of sensible arguments at all. It's just, they said all kinds of rude
[04:12.080 -> 04:16.160] things about me and various members of my family and goodness knows what. It's just,
[04:16.160 -> 04:21.840] it's most extraordinary what's going on there. And only half those accounts were me, Joe.
[04:22.720 -> 04:27.160] Not that Sergio can control his fans, but, you know, some of them need to go and have
[04:27.160 -> 04:30.920] a lie down in a dark room, obviously, and some tea probably do them good.
[04:30.920 -> 04:35.440] I feel like he's talking to me specifically, but only half those accounts were my soccer
[04:35.440 -> 04:39.120] counts and I've still got about 50 left that you haven't blocked.
[04:39.120 -> 04:41.280] You can't spell all the words that I was called.
[04:41.280 -> 04:42.280] No, that's true.
[04:42.280 -> 04:43.280] That is true.
[04:43.280 -> 04:45.040] So what we're here to
[04:45.040 -> 04:50.680] talk about is, it is, there's no other way to say it, this has been crazy drama where
[04:50.680 -> 04:57.000] the FIA just seems unable to avoid, you know, two or three days in a row, it can't avoid
[04:57.000 -> 05:01.240] a little bit of a scandal. Can you unpick this for us at all, Joe? Because there was
[05:01.240 -> 05:05.520] accusations from a media source, sounds like some media
[05:05.520 -> 05:10.400] source was briefed to leak a story, immediately followed by, we will investigate this, and
[05:10.400 -> 05:16.260] now the Wolves, particularly Suzy Wolfe, who is the head of the FOM's F1 Academy all-female
[05:16.260 -> 05:23.780] racing series, is incredibly upset, has released a series of very, my lawyers are over my shoulder
[05:23.780 -> 05:27.200] as I type this type angry press statements. What's going on, Joe?
[05:28.680 -> 05:31.120] All right, well, if you look at it, in the last few months, you
[05:31.120 -> 05:34.240] have to put in perspective a little bit, the FIA has been
[05:34.440 -> 05:37.680] doing some rather odd things, presumably because the
[05:37.680 -> 05:42.800] president, who prior to that was just clumsy, and got into
[05:42.800 -> 05:47.680] trouble back in February, because he always said from the beginning he wasn't
[05:47.680 -> 05:51.280] going to get involved in Formula One and then spent his entire time getting involved in Formula One.
[05:52.400 -> 05:58.720] Then he got slapped around the head by lawyers at Formula One Group and told to butt out,
[05:58.720 -> 06:03.360] quite literally, in legal language of course. And then he said he was going to butt out, but he
[06:03.360 -> 06:08.200] hasn't. And he keeps on going. But recently, in
[06:08.200 -> 06:10.320] the last three or four months, he's been doing even more and
[06:10.320 -> 06:13.640] more ridiculous things. And I don't know if that's because
[06:13.640 -> 06:17.920] he's getting bad advice. Maybe I don't know what it is. But he's
[06:17.960 -> 06:21.280] obviously not living on the planet with everybody else. That
[06:21.280 -> 06:25.600] outrageous story about swear words in Mexico, not
[06:25.600 -> 06:30.760] Mexico, Las Vegas, was just daft. It made the FIA look like
[06:30.760 -> 06:34.600] an Edwardian nanny, spanking people and saying, you're
[06:34.600 -> 06:37.560] terribly naughty for saying that word beginning with F. Oh, no,
[06:37.560 -> 06:39.960] no, no, no, we shan't be allowed to do that.
[06:40.000 -> 06:43.280] So to be clear, just in case anybody has been living under a
[06:43.280 -> 06:49.600] rock, or for some reason, not been following F1, since there's been no races, we are talking about the FIA president Mohamed
[06:49.600 -> 06:55.520] Ben Salaim who has been very outspoken and the FIA have clamped down on Lewis Hamilton crossing the
[06:55.520 -> 07:01.360] road and Toto Wolff and Fred Vossor saying very naughty words. It does sort of seem like...
[07:01.360 -> 07:02.720] Well they're not very naughty words.
[07:04.480 -> 07:09.680] No, in the modern era they are vernacularacular, unless they are directly at the person.
[07:09.680 -> 07:16.200] If you say that, be president, then you can understand that he might be a little bit upset.
[07:16.200 -> 07:21.240] It might also be a perfectly reasonable description, but that's another argument.
[07:21.240 -> 07:26.520] But the fact is that just going around pretending that it's naughty to do things like that
[07:26.520 -> 07:32.640] and hauling up Toto Wolff and Fred Vassa, who quite frankly,
[07:32.640 -> 07:35.580] had a right to respond as they did, because they were being
[07:35.580 -> 07:39.000] hassled in a press conference, Fred had just lost a car and
[07:39.000 -> 07:41.960] nearly had a driver hurt himself badly because something fell out
[07:41.960 -> 07:46.080] of the ground and hit the Ferrari. And that wasn't his
[07:46.080 -> 07:51.360] fault. And so he was he was fed up. And Toto found himself under attack from somebody who goes on
[07:51.360 -> 07:58.000] attacking him and just is annoying. And so they both responded with using the word that is so
[07:58.000 -> 08:07.680] naughty, that it involves, you know, the need for investigations into this. It's just rubbish. And it's just to
[08:07.680 -> 08:12.880] annoy them. And it's just to, I don't know what it is, to be honest, the president seems
[08:12.880 -> 08:19.440] to need to prove himself. He likes jumping into photos all the time. Wherever he goes,
[08:19.440 -> 08:30.520] he's always jumping into photos. He's always having to be in front of everything. If he was an FIA president who was being sensible, he would do what Jean-Todd did,
[08:30.600 -> 08:34.440] which is just keep a low profile because all that money you get given by Formula
[08:34.440 -> 08:38.520] One, all that money you're spending this week in Baku, having a massive great
[08:38.520 -> 08:43.240] Barney with all your mates and drinking and walking around on red carpets and
[08:43.800 -> 08:45.680] going on bus tours and all the rest of this stuff
[08:46.640 -> 08:52.640] is funded by Formula One. They pay for it all. Okay? And so rule number one, you don't bite the
[08:52.640 -> 08:59.120] hand that feeds you. And he's biting the hand, and that is annoying them. He definitely is biting the
[08:59.120 -> 09:04.160] hand that feeds them, but it's strange how the camps in this war, and it does seem like a war,
[09:04.160 -> 09:05.200] seem to be kind of
[09:05.200 -> 09:10.240] developing. So you have Fred Vossor and Toto Wolff, who seem to get on very well. You have
[09:10.240 -> 09:16.960] the teams kind of united, it seems, with Liberty Media, FOM, the commercial rights holder, and it
[09:16.960 -> 09:23.120] kind of seems to be them against Mohammed bin Salaim. It's very clear. Look, the sport is,
[09:23.120 -> 09:26.960] despite what grumpy old men say on the internet, the sport
[09:26.960 -> 09:30.960] is doing really well, everything's going well, and all the numbers are going up.
[09:32.000 -> 09:38.200] Everybody with half of, you know, anyone who's not grumpy says, this is fantastic
[09:38.200 -> 09:42.760] time, and we've got the FIA tripping over itself and saying stupid things and
[09:42.760 -> 09:45.760] making a mess of things, which is not required.
[09:46.800 -> 09:52.480] If they go on doing this, and this has been said to me on numerous occasions now by different people
[09:52.480 -> 10:00.160] up and down the Formula One ad hoc, why do we need the FIA is what they're saying. In the old days,
[10:00.720 -> 10:04.720] you couldn't get rid of them because the teams were split. But right now, everybody,
[10:03.300 -> 10:07.800] days, you couldn't get rid of them because the teams were split. And, but right now, everybody, every single organization, all the teams,
[10:08.260 -> 10:12.540] the F1 group, everybody, including F2 and F3, which are owned by F1.
[10:13.120 -> 10:18.460] Everybody is basically saying, let's just get on with this and do what we're doing
[10:18.460 -> 10:23.280] well, and if they're going to go on making a mess of things because some
[10:23.280 -> 10:30.320] bloke wants to feel powerful and wear bigger shoes than other people, then there could be trouble ahead.
[10:30.320 -> 10:35.560] Now, on the other side, Ben Salaam has some problems of his own because within the FIA,
[10:35.560 -> 10:37.640] he's an elected official.
[10:37.640 -> 10:41.760] Obviously the FIA is a bit odd when it comes to elections because you get elected by people
[10:41.760 -> 10:45.280] you then give jobs to, And so they will support you.
[10:45.280 -> 10:48.800] So your man from, let's make up a country,
[10:48.800 -> 10:51.400] because if I say one, there'll be somebody who gets upset.
[10:51.400 -> 10:53.800] Your man from Cloud Cuckoo Land,
[10:53.800 -> 10:55.560] the automobile club of Cloud Cuckoo Land
[10:55.560 -> 10:59.200] gets given a job being on a commission
[10:59.200 -> 11:01.800] or he gets to go to the annual gala
[11:01.800 -> 11:03.600] and somebody pays for him to do it or whatever,
[11:03.600 -> 11:05.160] however it works,
[11:05.160 -> 11:06.680] there is this system of patronage.
[11:06.680 -> 11:11.960] And so the president is kind of protected, but sensible people within the FIA are realizing
[11:11.960 -> 11:17.480] that hang on a minute, we could lose all the money that the FIA gets from Formula One if
[11:17.480 -> 11:20.040] we mess these people around too much.
[11:20.040 -> 11:21.720] And that's what's happening.
[11:21.720 -> 11:27.640] And when I say it's a lot of money, I'm talking about the equivalent of $100 million a year
[11:27.640 -> 11:30.960] is what the FIA costs Formula One.
[11:30.960 -> 11:31.960] Okay, but what's that as a total?
[11:31.960 -> 11:34.080] Now, a lot of people are saying, why is that worth it?
[11:34.080 -> 11:36.120] Oh, you want me to break it all down?
[11:36.120 -> 11:37.120] Okay.
[11:37.120 -> 11:40.480] Oh, no, I just meant like, what's the sort of percentage of the FIA's income is that?
[11:40.480 -> 11:41.480] It's more than 60%.
[11:41.480 -> 11:42.480] Oh, wow.
[11:42.480 -> 11:43.480] Okay, that's key.
[11:43.480 -> 11:45.920] Except they're not publishing, in a transparent federation that Mohammed bin Salman promised, It's more than 60%. Wow. Wow. Okay. That's key.
[11:45.920 -> 11:48.840] Except they're not publishing in a transparent federation that Mohammed bin Tulaim promised.
[11:48.840 -> 11:51.960] They're no longer publishing the financial accounts.
[11:51.960 -> 11:53.920] They stopped doing that when he was elected.
[11:53.920 -> 11:54.920] Why is that?
[11:54.920 -> 11:55.920] Don't know.
[11:55.920 -> 11:57.920] Jontard had the full accounts published every year.
[11:57.920 -> 12:02.800] We haven't seen one since he took over.
[12:02.800 -> 12:04.120] It's just asking for trouble, really.
[12:04.120 -> 12:05.120] It's very silly.
[12:05.120 -> 12:09.240] And, you know, people like me are going, well, I want to actually look and see in the accounts
[12:09.240 -> 12:12.440] on how much they're getting from Formula One, because it's important.
[12:12.440 -> 12:16.400] But I can, you know, I can tell you more or less, you know, they get a vast amount from
[12:16.400 -> 12:17.400] the entry fees.
[12:17.400 -> 12:22.000] I don't know if you saw, but the entry fee for Red Bull this year is some ludicrous amount
[12:22.000 -> 12:25.360] of money, like 6 million, because they scored so many points.
[12:25.360 -> 12:28.960] Max Verstappen will have to pay a million to get his super license.
[12:28.960 -> 12:33.640] And you add it all up, you're talking about, I don't know, you get into around the sort
[12:33.640 -> 12:39.840] of 40, 50 million bracket with all these fees, and the sanctioning fee that they get, they
[12:39.840 -> 12:51.840] get paid a certain amount of money by F1 to do the job that they're supposed to do. And then the F1 teams and FOM pay for the financial administration of the budget cap,
[12:51.840 -> 12:58.000] which costs a fair amount of money. They also have an agreement to pay airline tickets and freight
[12:58.000 -> 13:03.360] things for the FIA. And when you add it all together, it comes not far short of $100 million.
[13:04.400 -> 13:09.200] Now, a lot of people are saying, well, hang on a minute. Is this worth it? We've got this person
[13:09.200 -> 13:15.200] here who is causing us trouble, who is trying to introduce the Andretti team, for example.
[13:15.760 -> 13:22.640] He's doing things that just make no sense. He's just stirring up trouble. Why is he stirring up
[13:22.640 -> 13:25.600] trouble? Because probably he feels the need
[13:25.600 -> 13:29.680] to be powerful, whatever it is. I don't know what he needs. None of us really understand
[13:29.680 -> 13:36.640] what he's doing. And he's surrounded by people who of course never challenge him because you
[13:36.640 -> 13:43.680] never challenge a man in power like that. They just get fired if they challenge him.
[13:44.320 -> 13:48.400] Or they get sidelined to such an extent that they become irrelevant in the overall
[13:48.400 -> 13:49.400] scheme of things.
[13:49.400 -> 13:53.740] So if you surround yourself with a bunch of yes men, what do you expect?
[13:53.740 -> 14:00.640] So we're getting to a situation where there are people in the FIA talking and plotting
[14:00.640 -> 14:01.640] even.
[14:01.640 -> 14:12.520] I'm not sure I would go that far, but you can see that there's definitely pressure. I mean, the U-turn on this business in recent days, let's go back to that, the
[14:12.520 -> 14:17.600] U-turn was so swift and so ludicrous that it was clearly somebody has gone to him in
[14:17.600 -> 14:22.520] the back rooms and said, you're going to do this or you're out, or we're going to try
[14:22.520 -> 14:25.080] and get you out perhaps. But, you know,
[14:25.080 -> 14:27.520] you are messing things up and you need to fix it.
[14:27.520 -> 14:31.920] So to be clear, like, there's no way that investigation could have, could have, the
[14:31.920 -> 14:35.120] investigation they said they were definitely carrying out in regards to the compliance
[14:35.120 -> 14:39.320] board. There's no way that could have been done in two days. So this is definitely a
[14:39.320 -> 14:41.560] a cowing under pressure.
[14:41.560 -> 14:47.760] Well, it's the whole thing was ludicrous because, look, let's start from the beginning.
[14:47.760 -> 14:48.760] Let's do it.
[14:48.760 -> 14:56.760] First of all, the outlet who wrote this story is not one that anyone in Formula One takes
[14:56.760 -> 15:02.800] without a very, very large pinch of salt. And people don't take it seriously, whether
[15:02.800 -> 15:05.000] that's right, wrong, whatever. It's not for me.
[15:05.000 -> 15:07.000] Well, it is for me to judge if I want to.
[15:07.000 -> 15:10.000] I choose not to judge it, but I let other people judge it.
[15:10.000 -> 15:18.000] But it's not something that the PADDOC takes very seriously, because there is a track record
[15:18.000 -> 15:31.520] that people are not impressed by. So now then this is suddenly turned into an investigation by the FIA. When was the last time the FIA
[15:31.520 -> 15:35.040] launched an investigation into something that a magazine wrote?
[15:35.120 -> 15:35.480] No.
[15:35.480 -> 15:39.440] I can't think of a single one. Particularly one that's, you
[15:39.440 -> 15:44.600] know, totally unreliable. And then I understand from the
[15:48.400 -> 15:53.440] briefing game, that people were being briefed that actually, yes, well, several teams have complained to the FIA about this conflict of
[15:53.440 -> 16:08.480] interest, which is why we saw all the teams, bar Mercedes, saying, well, it wasn't us, we didn't do it. So, and what that basically said was it lifted a middle digit at the FIA and
[16:08.540 -> 16:12.460] made them, I think I wrote somewhere, or maybe I didn't write it should have done.
[16:12.740 -> 16:17.420] I wrote the emperor needs a new wardrobe, forget the clothes, because basically
[16:17.540 -> 16:20.300] there was nothing left after that.
[16:21.060 -> 16:24.500] And then they canceled it like less than 24 hours later.
[16:24.500 -> 16:27.200] So obviously a lot of stuff is going
[16:27.200 -> 16:33.840] on in the background, and obviously pressure is being applied. And now, incidentally, we're still
[16:33.840 -> 16:40.320] getting messages out of Mercedes sort of saying, well, we're reserving the right to perhaps take
[16:40.320 -> 16:52.880] legal action against the FAA for damage to our image, which is frankly fair enough, because this has been, some people would read it as being a deliberate attempt
[16:52.880 -> 16:58.080] to damage the image, a bit like the swear word thing, a deliberate attempt to damage
[16:58.080 -> 17:01.860] the image of some of the team principals.
[17:01.860 -> 17:06.440] And now, why would you do that if you're president of the FIA? I don't know.
[17:06.440 -> 17:11.800] But that seems to be what people view it as being.
[17:11.800 -> 17:17.680] So I definitely want to get into the logistics of the reality of this, you know, possible
[17:17.680 -> 17:23.520] breakaway that people are talking about. But I think I'm taking your quite emotive, I won't
[17:23.520 -> 17:25.960] call it rant, but emotive explanation
[17:25.960 -> 17:29.040] of the situation there as a bit of a vindication.
[17:29.040 -> 17:37.240] Because I felt this sort of battle, this war between the FIA versus FOM slash teams building
[17:37.240 -> 17:38.240] in the background.
[17:38.240 -> 17:39.720] And now it is open warfare.
[17:39.720 -> 17:49.600] So like Toto Wolff made a comment about the, was he worried about second place in the championship, and he said no we'll be all right because there's a proper race director. Obviously a pop at Michael
[17:49.600 -> 17:54.240] Massey, I've got no strong opinions one way or the other on what Michael Massey did in Abu Dhabi
[17:54.240 -> 18:00.480] 2021, that's a lie, but immediately the FIA president comes out to bat for Michael Massey,
[18:00.480 -> 18:05.100] talking about Massey's suffering and and how we would bring him back if needed.
[18:05.100 -> 18:10.460] Out of the blue, the only reason he made that statement was to attack Toto Wolff. So you've
[18:10.460 -> 18:16.540] got an FIA president that is openly attacking team principles. It even happened before this
[18:16.540 -> 18:30.440] Toto and Susie scandal or accusation. But you've got an FIA president who is on the wrong side of a dam and he's trying to
[18:30.440 -> 18:32.600] blow up, blow explosives up.
[18:32.600 -> 18:35.200] And he doesn't seem to understand that if you blow the dam over, you're going to get
[18:35.200 -> 18:42.120] blasted away and disappear into the far distance with the word forehead, sorry, with the word
[18:42.120 -> 18:46.400] failure stamped on your forehead. Because, you know,
[18:46.400 -> 18:50.640] this is madness. And this is why it doesn't, it doesn't make sense. And this is why people are
[18:50.640 -> 18:57.520] saying, well, what's going on? Who's he listening to? And he's, he's not used to not getting his
[18:57.520 -> 19:08.920] way. I suppose that's what it is. But it just doesn't fit in the, in the world that we live in today with the way the Federation needs
[19:08.920 -> 19:09.920] to be.
[19:09.920 -> 19:12.600] And if they don't do something about it, it is going to get worse.
[19:12.600 -> 19:13.600] Okay.
[19:13.600 -> 19:22.800] So I have never seen like the teams, FOM, Liberty Media, and in fact, the press all
[19:22.800 -> 19:25.680] pretty united in pointing squarely at the FIA and going,
[19:25.680 -> 19:30.960] what on earth is going on? This is ridiculous. So obviously the best case scenario is he just
[19:30.960 -> 19:35.360] stops being weird and everything carries on or they replace him.
[19:35.920 -> 19:41.680] Well, there are various possible outcomes of this. First of all, replacing the FIA president,
[19:41.680 -> 19:45.600] as I said, is very difficult to do because of the patronage thing.
[19:45.600 -> 19:48.800] If he has the support of all these little clubs and they don't want somebody to come
[19:48.800 -> 19:53.600] in and say, you know, because right now the automobile club of Panama has the same power
[19:53.600 -> 19:56.160] as the automobile club of the United States of America.
[19:56.160 -> 19:57.160] Really?
[19:57.160 -> 20:00.800] They have one vote each, which is all, you know, any little Caribbean island has one
[20:00.800 -> 20:01.800] vote.
[20:01.800 -> 20:08.320] The automobile club of Vietnam has one vote and the AAA has one vote. Now, some people think
[20:08.320 -> 20:10.600] that's fine. If you're one of these little clubs that gives
[20:10.600 -> 20:14.120] you some power. But what they don't want is somebody coming
[20:14.120 -> 20:16.400] in, a new president coming in and saying, right, we're going
[20:16.400 -> 20:20.220] to change this to make it more democratic, because then they
[20:20.220 -> 20:23.040] will become completely irrelevant. And there won't be
[20:23.040 -> 20:30.080] any fancy jobs for them anymore. So you have these people who are clinging to the tail coat, or whatever you
[20:30.080 -> 20:35.860] call it, or the coattails of the president who will support him because it's in their
[20:35.860 -> 20:43.000] interest to do so. Now, so you have the possibility of an internal rebellion to take him out.
[20:43.000 -> 20:49.600] Generally speaking, the FIA doesn't do that much. But they could, and they would dress it up if they did it, if they convinced him
[20:49.600 -> 20:54.840] that he had to go. They would do that probably by him saying that he was ill or
[20:54.840 -> 20:59.520] something, whatever. And then somebody else taking over. That's one thing that could
[20:59.520 -> 21:04.880] happen. But that would be an extreme case. And I don't really see that happening. The
[21:04.880 -> 21:05.440] other extreme case would be F1 saying, right, don't really see that happening. The other extreme
[21:05.440 -> 21:10.080] case would be F1 saying, right, well, we've had enough of you now we're off to do our own thing.
[21:10.080 -> 21:13.440] Brilliant. Right. This is what I want to talk about, because it's such a good thought exercise
[21:13.440 -> 21:16.400] to help us understand how the structures are built.
[21:16.960 -> 21:23.360] Okay. Well, it's very difficult to do that as well. The primary point about it is that the FIA
[21:28.360 -> 21:34.600] The primary point about it is that the FIA owns the name FIA Formula One World Championship. They own the right to have any automobile competition as a world championship.
[21:35.000 -> 21:36.400] Nobody else can do that.
[21:36.400 -> 21:41.440] That's why in the past, you've had things like IndyCar World Series, because
[21:41.440 -> 21:42.920] that wasn't a world championship.
[21:43.160 -> 21:43.600] Question.
[21:43.880 -> 21:46.560] So it's just the wording.
[21:46.560 -> 21:47.560] So just call it.
[21:47.560 -> 21:48.560] Just the wording.
[21:48.560 -> 21:49.560] So you could have...
[21:49.560 -> 21:50.560] Well, it's Formula One as well, Formula One.
[21:50.560 -> 21:51.560] Okay.
[21:51.560 -> 21:53.880] And they also have the trademark for the regulations.
[21:53.880 -> 21:58.560] In other words, if you start another championship, you'd have to have different regulations or
[21:58.560 -> 22:02.300] else they'd sue you for contract or for breach of trademark.
[22:02.300 -> 22:04.280] So it couldn't be Formula anything either.
[22:04.280 -> 22:05.760] Well, it could be Formula
[22:05.760 -> 22:12.560] something. Formula Uno. It also could be GP1 because Formula One already owned GP1. They own
[22:12.560 -> 22:18.960] GP1, GP2, GP3. They could do that. And you'd get like MotoGP once upon a time, that used to be the
[22:18.960 -> 22:30.520] World Motorcycle Championships. Right, of course. And then it became MotoGP. And what we're seeing really is a clash between, it's a bit like what's going on in golf and
[22:30.520 -> 22:34.760] what went on in the Premier League, which is the old school federations that organise
[22:34.760 -> 22:39.560] things for whatever reason, are clashing with the commercial interests.
[22:39.560 -> 22:46.240] And as almost always happens, the commercial interest wins because money is king.
[22:46.240 -> 22:47.560] End of story.
[22:47.560 -> 22:52.280] And that's not a bad thing either, because otherwise we'd all be looking at tiddlywink
[22:52.280 -> 22:57.160] championships in the local neighbourhood, nothing world championship and big.
[22:57.160 -> 23:02.160] So we have that situation whereby they could do this.
[23:02.160 -> 23:07.040] Now, if they did do that, the first thing that would happen is the FIA has no means
[23:07.040 -> 23:15.960] at all, no money to be able to create another Formula One World Championship.
[23:15.960 -> 23:17.440] They just couldn't do it.
[23:17.440 -> 23:18.440] They don't have the people.
[23:18.440 -> 23:21.560] They certainly wouldn't have the money.
[23:21.560 -> 23:23.440] They wouldn't be able to negotiate TV deals.
[23:23.440 -> 23:31.240] They wouldn't be able to get teams to do it, because all the teams of any note are tied to F1 via F123.
[23:31.240 -> 23:33.480] Right, okay, so that's key.
[23:33.480 -> 23:36.440] And none of those teams are manufacturer teams either, remember that.
[23:36.440 -> 23:40.240] You know, if you're going to have a Formula One World Championship, you need manufacturers.
[23:40.240 -> 23:49.760] There's nobody who can build cars, apart from a few teams in sports car racing. Can I clarify, Joe, why are the teams tied to Liberty Media?
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[25:39.960 -> 25:44.360] Right so if they did a breakaway I mean it looks like they're fairly
[25:44.360 -> 25:45.680] on song with the teams anyway but presumably if they did a breakaway, I mean it looks like they're fairly on song with
[25:45.680 -> 25:50.200] the teams anyway, but presumably if they did break away, the teams and drivers and the
[25:50.200 -> 25:54.400] grid goes with them, is that the thinking?
[25:54.400 -> 25:57.600] Everything would go with them, they just change the name of the championship.
[25:57.600 -> 26:01.000] Now there are some people who'd say, well it's not a world championship anymore, therefore
[26:01.000 -> 26:04.280] it doesn't have the same value, but that's irrelevant.
[26:04.280 -> 26:07.080] It's irrelevant because what would happen is
[26:07.080 -> 26:10.080] that after 10 minutes, realizing there's nothing else that they
[26:10.080 -> 26:13.360] can do, the FIA would come running back and say, well, you
[26:13.360 -> 26:16.720] can have our title again, if you're nice to us, in which
[26:16.720 -> 26:21.000] case, then the boot changes to the other foot. And it lands
[26:21.000 -> 26:24.920] squarely in the nether regions of the FIA president and say,
[26:24.920 -> 26:25.760] well, sorry, you're the
[26:25.760 -> 26:31.680] one who caused this. So let's negotiate and you get nothing. Yeah, it's a buyer's market then.
[26:31.680 -> 26:39.120] So basically, basically, annoying everybody is a really bad idea. And that's why it makes no
[26:39.120 -> 26:46.320] sense to do it. I'm trying to fight on the FIA side now. Liberty get fed up and they decide to go. I'm trying
[26:46.320 -> 26:53.600] to think what can the FIA do? So what stops, say, a Saudi group or CVC coming in and going,
[26:53.600 -> 26:56.480] oh, well, we'll run the series for you. We've got money.
[26:56.480 -> 26:57.480] Time.
[26:57.480 -> 26:58.480] Right.
[26:58.480 -> 27:02.480] It's going to take you two years, it's going to take you five years to build up a championship,
[27:02.480 -> 27:06.080] anything akin to Formula One. And in the meantime, Formula One will go on with all the TV
[27:06.080 -> 27:07.240] contracts and everything else.
[27:07.720 -> 27:11.200] And nobody else, look at Formula E, all the TV companies
[27:11.200 -> 27:12.600] are abandoning Formula E.
[27:12.960 -> 27:13.360] I'm so upset.
[27:13.360 -> 27:14.600] Channel 4 dumped them.
[27:14.680 -> 27:16.080] The Germans just dumped them.
[27:16.520 -> 27:20.240] You know, they can't hold, most of their races don't last more than a year.
[27:20.800 -> 27:26.040] I mean, perhaps that's a little bit unkind, but certainly an awful lot of their races
[27:26.040 -> 27:28.220] terminate contracts very early.
[27:28.220 -> 27:33.520] The thing is not any way, shape or form, it's got the name world championship because the
[27:33.520 -> 27:37.320] FIA gave them that, but it's not in the same league.
[27:37.320 -> 27:40.880] And there's nothing in the same league with the possible, except for the world endurance
[27:40.880 -> 27:42.080] championship.
[27:42.080 -> 27:49.440] And even that is a bit of a mess because you've got a whole bunch of people and they're manipulating who wins by changing the balance of performance.
[27:50.080 -> 27:57.040] Yes. So if in my scenario, the Saudis came in and said, okay, FOM, we'll do a series with you,
[27:57.760 -> 28:03.520] in essence, that would be the new breakaway series competing with what we now think of as F1
[28:03.520 -> 28:04.480] under a different name.
[28:04.480 -> 28:06.880] That's never going to happen. That's never going to happen.
[28:06.880 -> 28:08.480] Okay, can the FIA make this?
[28:08.480 -> 28:12.080] The Saudis would go with Formula One as it is now.
[28:13.440 -> 28:17.680] I'm not sure they have an enormous amount of time for Mohammed bin Salim.
[28:17.680 -> 28:20.960] They want to buy the thing rather than create their own thing.
[28:22.640 -> 28:28.920] Well, you know, if you look at what's going on in golf, they've tried to do their own thing. And we have a mess. And once you
[28:28.920 -> 28:31.280] have a mess, people lose interest in messes. It's like
[28:31.680 -> 28:34.480] the World Boxing Championship. How many world champions are
[28:34.480 -> 28:36.640] there? What does it matter anymore? Who cares? Nobody
[28:36.640 -> 28:39.920] watches it anymore. So that you know, that's the the value of
[28:39.920 -> 28:44.080] Formula One is that it is a clear, it's a clear method of
[28:44.080 -> 28:49.280] delivery of messaging worldwide. It's a world championship. And we've
[28:49.280 -> 28:56.400] got this one guy who and his underlings who are just trying
[28:56.400 -> 28:59.000] to cause trouble for reasons that only they understand.
[28:59.120 -> 29:03.720] I want to play the side of the FOM again for a little while
[29:03.720 -> 29:09.480] here. So in this power struggle where they're breaking away, I actually had some people who were marshals and stewards and
[29:10.040 -> 29:14.080] there was a few people really saying a breakaway could never happen and
[29:14.320 -> 29:17.640] here's the reasons they gave. The main ones that I heard from people were
[29:17.760 -> 29:23.840] the FIA does all the marshalling and race control, you couldn't do the marshalling without them, and then the second one was well all the
[29:23.840 -> 29:25.120] tracks have contracts
[29:29.640 -> 29:32.800] with, with the FIA or the FIA run it and there's other series there that are other FIA series, the tracks couldn't survive.
[29:32.800 -> 29:38.400] Anti-competitive for the FIA to not allow the tracks to work
[29:38.400 -> 29:42.240] with other championships. So it would be anti-competitive under
[29:42.280 -> 29:45.440] American law and European law. In other words, they haven't
[29:45.440 -> 29:51.600] got a leg to stand on. They do license people, yes, but they've got to go on licensing people
[29:51.600 -> 29:56.080] for their own championships, what's left of them, if they're in business. I mean, they
[29:56.080 -> 30:00.040] wouldn't even be in business three months after a split. They just wouldn't have the
[30:00.040 -> 30:02.360] money. The whole thing would fold up, to be honest.
[30:02.360 -> 30:05.840] So who would suffer if the FIA folded? Because that's my belief as well.
[30:05.840 -> 30:08.960] If the F1 left them, the FIA would just crumble.
[30:08.960 -> 30:10.840] Are there other CEOs out there who would suffer?
[30:10.840 -> 30:15.560] The whole sport would suffer because there would be no central sanctioning body.
[30:15.560 -> 30:20.520] Now, that's why I don't think it'll happen, because if there's any threat to the money
[30:20.520 -> 30:26.440] supply and there is an existential threat to the FIA, the clubs within the FIA
[30:26.440 -> 30:31.680] will rise up and they will change the necessary to make sure they hold on to that level of
[30:31.680 -> 30:32.680] control.
[30:32.680 -> 30:34.440] How they do it, they'll find a way.
[30:34.440 -> 30:38.740] If there's an existential threat to the Federation, they will find a way.
[30:38.740 -> 30:41.520] So they have to find a way.
[30:41.520 -> 30:45.280] And from a motorsport point of view, we just need to have stability. That's
[30:45.280 -> 30:53.200] what makes things grow. Stability is growth. And if we don't have stability, then we have
[30:53.200 -> 30:58.040] problems and then we have conflicts. We don't need any of this. Motorsport is doing really
[30:58.040 -> 31:06.000] well, particularly at a time when other kinds of sport, everybody's suffering in the media, all the numbers are
[31:06.000 -> 31:08.200] going down, but Formula One's not.
[31:08.200 -> 31:14.040] Formula One particularly, I mean, some motorsport is going down, NASCAR, for example.
[31:14.040 -> 31:15.040] Is it?
[31:15.040 -> 31:21.240] Oh yeah, the numbers are going down each year, little by little, because there's so many
[31:21.240 -> 31:23.360] more options available.
[31:23.360 -> 31:26.720] But Formula One is not going down. And therefore, from a marketing
[31:26.720 -> 31:29.520] point of view, it's, it's a it's the best place for people to be.
[31:30.000 -> 31:34.800] So we don't want to have all this kind of disruption, cause
[31:34.800 -> 31:39.360] for reasons that nobody truly understands beyond one man's
[31:39.360 -> 31:47.820] whim. And that's why we have to have some sensible solutions.
[31:47.820 -> 31:52.440] And if the president and his people can't come up with sensible solutions, they will
[31:52.440 -> 31:55.680] be found by other people within the FIA.
[31:55.680 -> 32:03.960] So whilst you're saying it's not at all desirable for this breakaway to happen, I think it's
[32:03.960 -> 32:08.240] almost important to establish, from a fan point of view,
[32:08.240 -> 32:12.120] to understand what's happening, how possible the breakaway would be. Even though it's not ideal,
[32:12.120 -> 32:17.520] obviously staying in the happy marriage would be ideal, but if you had to leave, yes,
[32:17.520 -> 32:23.120] you'd be healthier overall, but you've got to pay another mortgage and get a new set of cutlery. So,
[32:23.120 -> 32:25.720] yes, it wouldn't be convenient, but it might.
[32:25.720 -> 32:29.040] No, no, but it's never going to happen. It's never going to happen because the FIA would
[32:29.040 -> 32:30.400] go out of business if it happened.
[32:30.400 -> 32:34.760] So what I mean is it's important to really reiterate to the FIA president the position
[32:34.760 -> 32:35.760] that he is in.
[32:35.760 -> 32:42.900] And if he looks at the secret accounts that he has, or the accounts he won't make public,
[32:42.900 -> 32:45.120] he will realise that there is a complete weakness.
[32:45.120 -> 32:50.000] Jean-Todd knew this years ago. And one of the reasons he kept out was that he knew he
[32:50.000 -> 32:54.400] could not afford to upset Formula One. And so he tried very hard to create new things
[32:54.400 -> 33:00.480] that would derive income, revenue, that would make them less dependent on Formula One. For
[33:00.480 -> 33:03.600] example, the motorsport games, you know, that's really taken off, isn't it?
[33:03.600 -> 33:05.360] The what? Uh, for example, the motorsport games, you know, that's really taken off. Isn't it? The one. Exactly.
[33:05.720 -> 33:12.720] The motorsport games, uh, for, sorry, I've got, um, I've got
[33:12.720 -> 33:13.720] somebody trying to telephone me.
[33:13.720 -> 33:14.440] I've got breaking news.
[33:15.280 -> 33:15.720] Is it?
[33:15.720 -> 33:17.440] Yeah, that's going to say, I'm going to have to run this past
[33:17.440 -> 33:18.440] the lawyers before we publish.
[33:18.640 -> 33:20.120] Um, come on, Joe, who was it?
[33:20.120 -> 33:20.880] You know, who that was?
[33:21.000 -> 33:21.640] That was Toto.
[33:21.640 -> 33:22.960] I do know who it was.
[33:22.960 -> 33:23.280] Yeah.
[33:23.440 -> 33:24.160] I'm not telling you.
[33:24.200 -> 33:24.840] Take the call.
[33:24.840 -> 33:25.360] Take the call. Take the call.
[33:26.360 -> 33:28.640] Anyway, it says it on the phone when it comes up, doesn't it?
[33:28.720 -> 33:33.280] So, um, that's, that's the situation we're in.
[33:33.960 -> 33:38.000] I don't think there will be a breakaway because the FIA would just fold up
[33:38.360 -> 33:40.320] and they can't afford to do that.
[33:40.320 -> 33:50.400] Therefore, it's more likely that they will overthrow or, or they will bring in rain in bring to heel, the FIA
[33:50.400 -> 33:54.400] president if he goes on doing these silly things. I honestly
[33:54.400 -> 33:57.000] don't understand. I don't understand what they're doing. I
[33:57.000 -> 34:02.280] don't understand the logic behind it. And I don't
[34:02.280 -> 34:04.560] understand what they're trying to achieve, because they're not
[34:04.560 -> 34:13.520] going to achieve anything they are, whether they like it or not, they are at the beck and call of F1. And
[34:13.520 -> 34:19.360] the other thing is that if you make a mockery of the FIA, people will start leaving the FIA,
[34:19.360 -> 34:23.840] people who work there, who do not want to be associated with it. Good people who work there
[34:24.800 -> 34:25.200] don't want to be associated with this kind good people who work there, don't want
[34:25.200 -> 34:28.740] to be associated with this kind of thing and will start to leave. And I'll bet you that's
[34:28.740 -> 34:34.300] the next step. You'll see some big names leaving the FIA because they don't want the associations
[34:34.300 -> 34:39.460] that come with this kind of behaviour. And, you know, watch and wait.
[34:39.460 -> 34:45.840] Joe, I really appreciate you dropping in and giving us this update right from inside the paddock.
[34:45.840 -> 34:51.760] Go and follow Joe Sayward on Twitter and you can see just the extent to which he's upset
[34:51.760 -> 34:57.200] all the Sergio Perez fan base, including me, Joe. And go and check out his newsletter,
[34:57.200 -> 35:02.240] which you can purchase. It's very, very worth it for insider scoops and information.
[35:02.240 -> 35:05.760] And of course, you can look forward to Joe's GP Plus magazine which
[35:05.760 -> 35:12.800] gets published after every race and you can buy a yearly subscription at a discount now. I saw you
[35:12.800 -> 35:19.360] post and that would make a great present for the Formula One fan in your life. So that's printed
[35:19.360 -> 35:30.440] a few hours after the race. Joe, thank you very much for dropping in. I know you have to go and get to the market to buy a single baguette with a coupon, but just before you go, Joe,
[35:30.440 -> 35:35.880] you have set the world alight with a scoop about the Spanish Grand Prix, and I am really,
[35:35.880 -> 35:40.840] really sad because you seem to be suggesting that that is the end of the Catalunya circuit
[35:40.840 -> 35:41.840] for F1.
[35:41.840 -> 35:45.520] I think it probably is for now. You know, they need to
[35:45.520 -> 35:49.840] address all kinds of issues they have. They do not have a
[35:49.840 -> 35:55.680] competitive or a compelling argument that Madrid does have. And all the people,
[35:55.680 -> 36:00.800] I'm so bored with listening people writing, it's another street circuit. It is another street circuit, Joe.
[36:00.800 -> 36:05.280] It's not. How many street circuits have got a banked hairpin in them?
[36:05.280 -> 36:08.560] There's eight roundabouts on it Joe. There's a Tesco, it goes past a Tesco.
[36:09.200 -> 36:14.160] Yeah and then there's a banked hairpin. You know people just haven't done their homework. If you
[36:14.160 -> 36:18.000] look and see what is planned it's really interesting. How much of it is on a street?
[36:18.000 -> 36:33.360] How much of it is on usable streets? About, uh, 50 percent of it is up one side, across the front and down the back of the exhibition
[36:33.360 -> 36:34.360] center.
[36:34.360 -> 36:35.360] Okay.
[36:35.360 -> 36:37.800] The rest of it is out on open land.
[36:37.800 -> 36:39.060] They can do what they like.
[36:39.060 -> 36:40.340] And there are plans.
[36:40.340 -> 36:44.100] They have a banked hairpin as in Zandvoort.
[36:44.100 -> 36:49.000] They have all kinds of interesting things, and it's all not been built yet.
[36:49.000 -> 36:50.000] It's parkland.
[36:50.000 -> 36:52.600] In other words, it's not a street circuit.
[36:52.600 -> 36:58.680] If you look at it in terms of Montreal or Albert Park, that's a closer reference point
[36:58.680 -> 37:01.620] than thinking it's some kind of a monocle.
[37:01.620 -> 37:03.440] It's not a kind of monocle.
[37:03.440 -> 37:04.440] And it's just ignorance, really.
[37:04.440 -> 37:06.440] I mean, you can find out what it's some kind of a moniker. It's not a kind of moniker. And it's just ignorance, really. I mean, you can find out what it's about.
[37:06.440 -> 37:10.480] And just because it's got a couple of roundabouts in it doesn't mean the roundabouts will be
[37:10.480 -> 37:14.720] there in the same format when the F1 have finished designing it.
[37:14.720 -> 37:16.760] They've got to stop at traffic lights.
[37:16.760 -> 37:19.240] There's some traffic lights they've got to stop at.
[37:19.240 -> 37:21.060] Every circuit has chicanes.
[37:21.060 -> 37:22.060] It's going to have a lollipop lady.
[37:22.060 -> 37:23.680] And the roundabouts become chicanes.
[37:23.680 -> 37:27.440] You know, it's just, itop lady. It's not difficult. It's just that people like
[37:27.440 -> 37:34.400] being grumpy and complaining. I think it's really positive. I love doing that. I think that it's a
[37:34.400 -> 37:39.520] good thing for the championship because anyone who's been to Barcelona recently knows that first
[37:39.520 -> 37:45.920] of all, the racing is very average because the track is laid out in such a way it's difficult to overtake.
[37:45.920 -> 37:46.880] Cars have outgrown it.
[37:47.360 -> 37:53.600] Oh, it's not the cars, it's always been like that. The access is awful. The location is
[37:53.600 -> 37:58.400] awful. There's a nice smelly abattoir nearby, which always is rather charming. It's not quite
[37:58.400 -> 38:03.440] downtown Barcelona, you know, it's not glamour that Formula One wants. And it's also, and this
[38:03.440 -> 38:07.080] is an important point too, it's in Catalonia and
[38:07.080 -> 38:09.540] Catalonia and Madrid don't get on.
[38:10.020 -> 38:13.800] And the Spanish Grand Prix in Catalonia is something of a problem politically.
[38:14.380 -> 38:18.900] So, you know, we have to, we have to go with the flow and, you know,
[38:18.900 -> 38:21.880] everybody whinged and whined about how awful Vegas has been.
[38:21.880 -> 38:25.660] And if you start reading reports, how successful it's been, you know, people
[38:25.660 -> 38:30.500] have to go, ah, well, yes, um, well, what I meant was, and all this rubbish, you
[38:30.500 -> 38:35.020] know, it's been a huge success and it will make a huge difference for growth
[38:35.020 -> 38:40.100] of Formula One in the US and, you know, there are more races coming, good races.
[38:40.100 -> 38:42.000] These things are thought through nowadays.
[38:42.000 -> 38:48.640] They're not just sort of slap dash and, you know, thrown in there and just just so we'll see if it works or not. They're actually looked at sensibly.
[38:48.640 -> 38:52.800] And I've got to give a slight counter to the Madrid thing and saying it's not going to be a
[38:52.800 -> 39:00.000] street circuit. Is it going to be lined with that same sponsor clad, you know, barrier at the bottom
[39:00.000 -> 39:03.760] and then catch fence, all street tracks? From telly, they all look the same.
[39:04.480 -> 39:08.800] Except that out in the country, they don't. I mean, that's a kind of silly argument.
[39:08.800 -> 39:14.560] Look at Suzuka. Suzuka's lined with... there's not much runoff at Suzuka.
[39:15.360 -> 39:17.600] It's lined with a lot of barriers and a lot of debris.
[39:17.600 -> 39:20.800] Turn one, turn one, there's loads of runoff.
[39:20.800 -> 39:21.600] One turn, okay.
[39:21.600 -> 39:23.600] The first turn. Now let's go through the rest of the tent.
[39:23.600 -> 39:24.000] Look at Spa.
[39:24.800 -> 39:25.120] Don Lock's got loads of the tent. Good spa. Don
[39:25.120 -> 39:29.600] Locke's got loads of runoff. You're going to tell me spa's a street circuit next. Spa's
[39:29.600 -> 39:34.200] got it used to be it used to be Joe I know my history. I am well aware of it used to
[39:34.200 -> 39:37.160] be it wasn't I reported on it when it was still a street circuit. Yeah but there's loads
[39:37.160 -> 39:42.340] of runoff at spa. Yeah but occasional corners they have some runoff area but the fact is
[39:42.340 -> 39:47.680] just to say it's another street circuit and blah blah blah blah I want to complain okay it's just tiresome it's
[39:47.680 -> 39:53.260] really dull I still think it looks like a street circuit. It seems like every Formula One fan's first reaction is
[39:53.260 -> 39:58.660] negative be positive the sport is doing really well. Joe I'm gonna defend the
[39:58.660 -> 40:02.660] fans a little bit because it looks like a duck at the moment and I'm assuming
[40:02.660 -> 40:07.040] that it's gonna quack and if you've got inside information that says it's going to have beautiful runoff and curbs and
[40:07.040 -> 40:12.240] all the rest of it, then maybe that's just not been communicated very well to the vast
[40:12.240 -> 40:14.880] majority of people. I think it's reasonable for people to look at that and go...
[40:14.880 -> 40:18.320] There's loads of things that are wrong with it, but there've always been loads of things
[40:18.320 -> 40:22.560] wrong with it. But there's an awful lot that's right, and that's the important point. If you
[40:22.560 -> 40:25.480] look at the negative, every single time I
[40:25.480 -> 40:31.320] tweet something, the first thing that happens is 23 negative responses from the grumpy old
[40:31.320 -> 40:35.560] men of Formula One. I don't know if you want to include yourself in that group or not,
[40:35.560 -> 40:36.560] but it's just very tiresome.
[40:36.560 -> 40:42.200] Okay, but Joe, if you tweeted, FIA dropping sprint races, you would not get 23 negative
[40:42.200 -> 40:45.800] messages. You'd get 100 hundred positive messages thanking you.
[40:45.800 -> 40:47.600] Yes, but unfortunately that's not going to happen.
[40:47.600 -> 40:51.600] Yeah. So people are only responding negatively to things that are negative.
[40:51.600 -> 40:53.400] People are going to watch these things.
[40:53.400 -> 40:55.200] You know, that's the whole point.
[40:55.200 -> 40:59.000] If the numbers were going down, if the TV numbers were going down,
[40:59.000 -> 41:03.200] I mean, it's not entirely surprising that in some markets this year,
[41:03.200 -> 41:07.120] the TV statistics are not great because
[41:07.120 -> 41:13.400] when a driver wins 19 of 22 races and his teammate is not up to the job, sorry, Perez
[41:13.400 -> 41:14.880] fans, I've upset you again.
[41:14.880 -> 41:15.880] Great, nice one.
[41:15.880 -> 41:18.160] You know, but that's the truth.
[41:18.160 -> 41:22.400] You know, the fact is in the old days when we had domination by one team, we had a teammate
[41:22.400 -> 41:24.680] who was at least put up a fight.
[41:24.680 -> 41:27.960] You know, we had Nico Rosberg who at least put up a fight. Okay. You know, we had, we had Nico Rosberg, who was fighting Lewis Hamilton
[41:27.960 -> 41:28.840] when they were dominant.
[41:29.400 -> 41:32.720] We had Valtteri Botas to a lesser extent with Lewis.
[41:32.800 -> 41:35.000] We had Mark Webber with Vettel.
[41:35.600 -> 41:39.920] And in the old days of Ferrari, and you know, 20 years ago, we didn't have anybody.
[41:39.920 -> 41:43.000] So they just sort of follow around behind Michael and that did what they were told.
[41:43.640 -> 41:45.120] That's not good for the sport.
[41:45.120 -> 41:50.320] Now, what's good for the sport is to have competitive teams fighting one another.
[41:50.320 -> 41:54.480] But if everybody else can't keep up with Red Bull, it's not Red Bull's fault for doing
[41:54.480 -> 41:55.480] a good job.
[41:55.480 -> 41:56.480] More Perez slander.
[41:56.480 -> 41:59.360] Guys, Joe is at Joe Sayward on Twitter.
[41:59.360 -> 42:00.880] That's where he does most of his social media.
[42:00.880 -> 42:08.640] And I don't, I would never normally do this, but Perez fans, fans unite and let's get him I'll join you this time properly on not a sub account.
[42:08.640 -> 42:13.320] I've already been got and almost all the people who write abusive are already banned so they can all...
[42:13.320 -> 42:18.560] Okay so the trick is to not be a super abusive just be let's go for passive
[42:18.560 -> 42:21.800] aggressive this time then it's harder for him to block us and my other
[42:21.800 -> 42:29.360] accounts. Joe? No no I can block anybody I like can't I? Curses. All right. Also, I should say... If I think it's passive aggressive,
[42:29.360 -> 42:33.600] I might just say, oh, well, whatever. I can't be bothered. I just go, oh, that's one of
[42:33.600 -> 42:38.240] Stan's mates, I'll block him. So I do want to say, if there's anyone listening from any of
[42:38.240 -> 42:43.440] the promoters from the street circuits, I looked at the statistics in September, October, November,
[42:44.000 -> 42:46.320] 90,000 different devices
[42:46.320 -> 42:49.400] downloaded at least one episode of Missed Apex podcast.
[42:49.400 -> 42:54.160] So invite me to the street circuits and just, you know, champagne, food.
[42:54.160 -> 42:55.880] I am so buyable.
[42:55.880 -> 43:00.280] I am like relatively cheap if you want to bribe someone to say your street circuit's
[43:00.280 -> 43:01.280] great.
[43:01.280 -> 43:03.920] And guys, if I start saying street circuits are brilliant, you'll know what's happened
[43:03.920 -> 43:04.920] and we all win.
[43:04.920 -> 43:09.520] I see no downside to this, Joe I do but there you are. We have different views on the
[43:09.520 -> 43:14.720] world. Well something called integrity. Oh no I don't have any of that. Can you spell that?
[43:15.600 -> 43:22.560] Feedback at MrFx.net. I am so buyable as is Joe's GP Plus magazine. Go buy that now for next season.
[43:22.560 -> 43:28.720] You can buy it per magazine now which I've been saying you should do for ages, per episode.
[43:28.720 -> 43:31.920] It's a hell of a lot more expensive if you buy each one.
[43:31.920 -> 43:35.800] But to be honest, for the year, it is a steal what you charge for the year.
[43:35.800 -> 43:37.000] I think your subscription is...
[43:37.000 -> 43:44.720] Actually, the best deal, Spanners, is the bundle, where you get 370 magazines or something
[43:44.720 -> 43:47.280] like that. Yeah, old ones. Yeah, but it doesn't
[43:47.280 -> 43:51.600] matter. You get an entire history of Formula One for 15 years for almost nothing. But they're on
[43:51.600 -> 43:57.120] PDF. So you have to print them out yourself. You have to print it out, put it in your computer and
[43:57.120 -> 44:00.480] you look at them when you need to. And you can search them too. You know, that's an amazing
[44:00.480 -> 44:06.720] piece of technology. That's good. But there's great stuff in there. You've got a great photographer on board as well.
[44:06.720 -> 44:09.560] So you're brought right into the action of the whole weekend,
[44:09.560 -> 44:12.400] not just the same articles that are churned out
[44:12.400 -> 44:15.560] by what you ungenerously refer to as bottom feeders, Joe.
[44:15.560 -> 44:17.000] Still think you're mean.
[44:17.000 -> 44:18.600] Still think you were mean for calling.
[44:18.600 -> 44:20.520] I'm not mean because there are any.
[44:20.520 -> 44:22.520] Interestingly, actually, there was a tweet today
[44:22.520 -> 44:28.320] from MotoGP journalist who was quite shocked by how many people claim
[44:28.320 -> 44:32.600] to be MotoGP journalists. And he, you know, he goes to every
[44:32.600 -> 44:37.480] race, I think, or nearly every race. And, and he knows how many
[44:37.480 -> 44:39.680] of them are real. And it's the same for me, I look at all these
[44:39.680 -> 44:42.160] people claiming to be F1 journalists, even ones who, you
[44:42.160 -> 44:46.160] know, look vaguely serious, and I haven't seen any of them before in my life.
[44:46.780 -> 44:51.580] Rule number one, by the way, if you want to have a good steer of who to avoid,
[44:51.960 -> 44:58.840] anyone who says FIA accredited, they once had a pass and they feel the
[44:58.840 -> 45:00.120] need to tell everybody that.
[45:00.200 -> 45:03.680] If you say that, it's like saying I've had a pass once.
[45:03.760 -> 45:07.360] Matt Trump himself, co-host, he literally does that.
[45:07.360 -> 45:10.720] He always says it, FIA accredited, because he won a Formula E event.
[45:11.360 -> 45:12.560] Can I end this recording?
[45:12.560 -> 45:13.440] So I will let you go.
[45:13.440 -> 45:14.160] Sorry, Joe.
[45:14.160 -> 45:19.200] Andrew Benson has just put out a quote from Lewis Hamilton that says,
[45:19.200 -> 45:22.560] it is at the FIA gala, disappointing to see the governing body of our sport.
[45:22.560 -> 45:28.160] I sought to question the integrity of one of the most incredible female leaders we've ever had in our sport, in
[45:28.160 -> 45:33.540] Suzy Wolf. Without questioning, without any evidence, it's unacceptable." Hamilton
[45:33.540 -> 45:37.800] continues, this is a constant fight to really improve diversity and inclusion within the
[45:37.800 -> 45:42.160] industry. It seems there are certain individuals in the leadership of the FIA, I wonder who
[45:42.160 -> 45:45.440] he's talking about, that every time we try to make a step forward,
[45:45.440 -> 45:51.520] they try to pull us back, and that has to change. An FIA president under fire. Joe, I'm going to just ask you straight.
[45:51.520 -> 45:56.560] Is Mohammed bin Salam's role, his position, is it untenable?
[45:56.560 -> 46:03.040] I don't think it's untenable because the way the FIA is, but he's going to have to change and stop doing silly things.
[46:03.040 -> 46:08.240] If he doesn't stop doing silly things, things will get very ugly very quickly.
[46:08.240 -> 46:16.920] But hopefully, hopefully he will be intelligent enough to realize that his path at the moment
[46:16.920 -> 46:19.840] is not one that's going to work.
[46:19.840 -> 46:25.440] And incidentally, you know, Spanish, if we're doing that thing, and Mohamed, I'm available to give
[46:25.440 -> 46:31.840] you advice. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. For money. Excellent. Joe, of course, nobody gets it for
[46:31.840 -> 46:35.040] free, you know. Have a great day. Have a great break. And I think we'll catch you in the new
[46:35.040 -> 46:47.760] year, Joe. Okay, ciao, ciao. I suppose there should be an outro to this. I normally say something like, work hard,
[46:47.760 -> 46:51.800] be kind and have fun. That'll do. We'll see you on Sunday for the next part of our
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