The Original F1 Tech Time

Trumpets is joined by Matthew Somerfield, technical editor at Motorsport.Com as they look beneath the hood of F1’s development dash. From cooling calipers to fabulous fairings, from the beam wing bonanza to the sidepod sideshow, no aerodynamic hand goes unshaken in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast. 

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Sure, here is a detailed summary of the podcast episode transcript:

**Introduction**

* Matt Trumpets and Matthew Somerfield, technical editor at Motorsport.com, discuss the latest developments in Formula One aerodynamics.
* They note that teams are focusing on low-hanging fruit, such as the front wing end plates and beam wing, to improve performance.

**Key Insights**

* Teams are taking different approaches to development depending on their current performance level.
* Mercedes has made some corrective changes to its car, but is still behind Red Bull and Ferrari.
* Lewis Hamilton is unhappy with the cockpit position in the Mercedes, which he feels makes the car feel front-end heavy.
* Red Bull has a unique rear wing and beam wing setup that gives it an advantage on tracks with long straights.
* Aston Martin has made significant progress with its new car, which is now the second-fastest on the grid.

**Controversies and Memorable Moments**

* Hamilton's comments about the Mercedes cockpit position have sparked debate among fans and experts.
* Red Bull's dominance in Australia has raised questions about whether the team has an unfair advantage.

**Overall Message**

* The development race in Formula One is heating up, and teams are looking for any advantage they can find to improve performance.

**Additional Points**

* The teams are also working on ways to manage tire temperatures, which is critical for performance and degradation.
* Red Bull, Aston Martin, and Williams have developed innovative brake cooling systems that give them an advantage in this area.
* The podcast provides a detailed and informative look at the technical aspects of Formula One racing.

**Conclusion**

The Missed Apex Podcast is a great resource for fans who want to learn more about the technical side of Formula One racing. Trumpets and Somerfield do an excellent job of breaking down the complex concepts in a way that is easy to understand. # Missed Apex Podcast Transcript Summary: Under the Hood of F1's Development Dash

## Introduction

* Host Matt Trumpets and technical editor Matthew Somerfield of Motorsport.com dissect the intricate world of Formula One aerodynamic development.
* From cooling calipers to beam wings and sidepod side shows, no aspect of aerodynamics is left unexplored.

## Key Points

### Tire Performance and Development

* Tire performance is a significant factor in Formula One, with teams constantly seeking an optimal balance between grip and longevity.
* Lando Norris' criticism of Pirelli tires may stem from McLaren's current car not being on par with its competitors.
* Teams are expected to introduce performance upgrades as the season progresses.

### Triple DRS and Aero Efficiency

* The term "triple DRS" is misleading, as it oversimplifies the complex interplay of aerodynamic elements.
* Red Bull's low downforce rear wing design in Jeddah provided a significant advantage.
* Other teams have focused on reducing drag via the top flap, resulting in a less pronounced DRS effect.
* Aero elasticity and flex as potential factors in high-speed straight-line performance.

### Beam Wings and Aerodynamic Structures

* Beam wings are crucial in extracting air from the diffuser, enhancing downforce and efficiency.
* The interplay of beam wings with other aerodynamic components is critical for overall performance.
* Teams are exploring innovative cooling solutions to minimize the impact of heat rejection on aerodynamics.

### Mercedes' Side Pod Dilemma

* Mercedes' zero or half-pod solution is seen as overly convoluted and lacking in development potential.
* The team's struggles may be rooted in unresolved issues with their modeling and wind tunnel data.
* A change in side pod design is likely necessary, with Aston Martin's concept a potential inspiration.

### Floor Edge and Diffuser Throat

* The floor edge and diffuser throat are critical in managing airflow and preventing porpoising.
* Mercedes may have set incorrect targets, leading to ride height issues and performance limitations.
* The correlation between modeling and real-world performance is crucial for development.

### Floor Flex and Performance Gains

* Flex tests exist for the floor, but teams may still explore ways to gain performance through controlled flexion.
* High-speed cameras and rakes are used to monitor and analyze flex in various parts of the car.
* Teams are likely experimenting with flex to enhance performance, but it's not a dominant factor.

### Alpha Tauri, Alpha Romeo, and Williams' Performance

* Alpha Tauri and Alpha Romeo have underperformed relative to expectations, while Williams has shown improvement.
* Williams' gains may be attributed to increased resources for CFD and wind tunnel development.
* Alpha Romeo's mid-season resurgence in 2022 may have impacted their development strategy.
* Alpha Tauri's recent upgrade package may address some issues, but further changes are needed for a complete turnaround. **Summary of the Missed Apex Podcast Episode on the Development Dash in Formula One**

The Missed Apex podcast, hosted by Matt Trumpets and featuring technical editor at Motorsport.com, Matthew Somerfield, delves into the intricacies of Formula One's development race. The discussion centers around the various aerodynamic advancements teams have made to their cars, with a focus on cooling calipers, fairings, beam wings, and sidepods.

**Key Insights:**

* **Cooling Calipers:** Teams have made significant progress in designing and implementing cooling systems for their brake calipers. This has led to improved brake performance and reduced tire degradation, particularly during standing restarts.

* **Fairings:** Fairings, which are aerodynamic covers placed over various parts of the car, have been optimized to manage airflow and minimize drag. This has resulted in increased downforce and overall car efficiency.

* **Beam Wings:** Beam wings, located at the front of the car, have undergone substantial development. Teams have explored different designs to generate more downforce while maintaining stability.

* **Sidepods:** Sidepods, which house the radiators and other cooling components, have been a major area of focus for teams. The shape and design of the sidepods significantly impact airflow and overall aerodynamic performance.

**Team-Specific Developments:**

* **Red Bull and Ferrari:** Both teams have adopted a shorter nose design, which has allowed them to better manage airflow and generate more downforce.

* **Alfa Romeo:** The team switched from a shorter nose to a longer one, indicating their ongoing exploration of different aerodynamic concepts.

* **Aston Martin and Williams:** These teams have cooling systems similar to Red Bull, suggesting a potential advantage in tire management and warmup.

**Controversies and Notable Moments:**

* **FIA's Handling of Regulations:** The FIA's decision to allow teams to exploit a loophole regarding the outwash slot gap separators has drawn criticism. Some argue that this move undermines the intended purpose of the regulations and could lead to an increase in wake turbulence, negatively impacting racing.

* **Mercedes' Illegal Connection:** Mercedes' solution to the outwash issue, which involved connecting the front wing end plate to the front planes, was initially deemed illegal by the FIA. However, the team successfully appealed the decision, leading to questions about the consistency and effectiveness of the regulations.

* **Driver Complaints About Following:** Drivers have expressed concerns about the difficulty of following other cars closely, particularly in DRS zones. This issue is attributed to the increased downforce generated by the new regulations, which creates more wake turbulence behind the cars.

**Overall Takeaway:**

The development race in Formula One is a continuous process, with teams constantly pushing the boundaries of innovation to gain a competitive advantage. The podcast highlights the significance of aerodynamic advancements and the challenges teams face in optimizing their cars' performance while adhering to the regulations. As the season progresses, it will be intriguing to observe how teams further refine their designs and strategies to secure victories. # Missed Apex Podcast: Exploring the Technicalities of F1's Development Dash

## Episode Summary

In this episode of the Missed Apex Podcast, Matt Trumpets and Matthew Somerfield delve into the intricate world of Formula One's development race, examining the strategies and innovations employed by teams to gain an edge on the track.

### Key Points and Highlights:

- **Cooling Calipers:**
- Teams are exploring various methods to cool brake calipers, such as using water or oil as coolants.
- This helps maintain optimal braking performance and prevents overheating.

- **Fabulous Fairings:**
- Fairings, aerodynamic devices attached to wheels, are being designed to improve airflow and reduce drag.
- Teams are experimenting with different shapes and sizes to optimize their effectiveness.

- **Beam Wing Bonanza:**
- Beam wings, located above the rear wing, are being used to generate downforce and improve stability.
- Different designs and configurations are being tested to find the optimal balance.

- **Sidepod Sideshow:**
- Sidepods, which house various components such as radiators and air intakes, are being reshaped to improve airflow and cooling.
- Teams are exploring innovative designs to gain an aerodynamic advantage.

- **Hulkenberg's MG UK Failure:**
- Nico Hulkenberg's Haas suffered an MG UK failure during the Australian Grand Prix.
- The exact cause is still being investigated, but it could be a one-off issue or a sign of reliability concerns for Ferrari's power unit.

- **Red Bull's Dominance and Fragility:**
- Red Bull has shown remarkable dominance in the early part of the season, winning the first two races.
- However, there have been reliability concerns, with reports of driveshaft, gearbox, and shifting problems.
- It remains to be seen if these issues will hinder Red Bull's title charge or if they are merely minor setbacks.

### Overall Takeaway:

The episode provides an in-depth look at the technical aspects of Formula One, highlighting the continuous development and innovation undertaken by teams to enhance their cars' performance. While Red Bull has emerged as the early frontrunner, the season is still young, and other teams may find ways to challenge their dominance.

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[01:30.000 -> 01:38.000] You are listening to Tech Time with Summers F1,
[01:38.000 -> 01:40.000] presented by Myst Apex Podcast.
[01:40.000 -> 02:07.920] We live at one. Hi, I'm your host, Matt Trumpets, and we have none other than that story denizen of
[02:07.920 -> 02:15.160] the tech deep Matthew Summerfield, aka SummersF1, technical editor at Motorsport.com who has
[02:15.160 -> 02:19.040] surfaced long enough to spout some F1 wisdom our way.
[02:19.040 -> 02:24.080] But before we get started, I have to remind you that we are an independent podcast produced
[02:24.080 -> 02:25.000] in the podcasting
[02:25.000 -> 02:29.300] shed with the kind permission of our better halves. We aim to bring you a race review
[02:29.300 -> 02:33.900] before our Monday morning commute. We might be wrong, but we're first.
[02:33.900 -> 02:37.940] Welcome aboard, and as always, thanks for taking the time to join us.
[02:37.940 -> 02:42.120] No problem, Matt. You have pulled me away from the Masters coverage, but, you know,
[02:42.120 -> 02:43.720] Formula One does take precedence.
[02:43.720 -> 02:47.360] Okay, I know I owe you more than a few pints for that one then.
[02:47.920 -> 02:50.720] Most definitely. It's only the first round though, so we're okay.
[02:51.840 -> 02:55.760] Right. Well, we're in great luck here. We have a whole show to play with,
[02:55.760 -> 03:00.400] which isn't always the case. And so rather than start with a discussion of what the teams have
[03:00.400 -> 03:06.000] been up to specifically, I want to ask you a little bit about a more general topic,
[03:06.000 -> 03:11.920] and this comes from sort of reading your articles, but where are the teams aiming for low-hanging
[03:11.920 -> 03:16.960] fruit in this regulation set? I mean, is it the front wing end plates? Is it the beam wing?
[03:16.960 -> 03:23.200] Where are they looking to make the most gains for the least amount of time and testing investment?
[03:24.080 -> 03:27.040] I think that's really a question that you have to ask
[03:27.040 -> 03:28.920] from an individual team point of view,
[03:28.920 -> 03:31.880] because each of them are in a very different area
[03:31.880 -> 03:35.000] in terms of where they are in the development cycle.
[03:35.000 -> 03:36.800] So if we look at Red Bull, for argument's sake,
[03:36.800 -> 03:39.520] they have a very different approach to other teams
[03:39.520 -> 03:40.600] up and down the grid,
[03:40.600 -> 03:43.320] just purely because they have a massive advantage
[03:43.320 -> 03:47.700] compared to their rivals. If we look further down the grid at say somebody like Alfa
[03:47.700 -> 03:51.800] Romeo, if we look at Australia for argument's sake, they bought a new nose
[03:51.800 -> 03:57.000] cone and front wing and so they're looking very differently to other teams.
[03:57.300 -> 04:02.300] I would still argue that the low-hanging fruit is the underfloor because that
[04:02.300 -> 04:06.000] is the area in the regulations that offers the most bang for your buck.
[04:06.000 -> 04:10.000] And I still feel like teams are going to be able to find more and more performance there,
[04:10.000 -> 04:16.000] along with the floor edges because of the way that the regulations have changed from this year to,
[04:16.000 -> 04:21.000] from last year to this. But as you mentioned, you know, there's lots of development going on elsewhere,
[04:21.000 -> 04:29.120] various track specific things, like you mentioned beam wings. And then obviously you'll notice if you've followed any of my other articles
[04:29.120 -> 04:32.480] that there's been a lot of development at the start of the season on the front
[04:32.480 -> 04:37.680] wing end plates. And again, that is driven by the regulation change going into 2023.
[04:37.680 -> 04:51.080] Okay. So one thing I want to get to, and one of the reasons why I asked this question is we saw a Mercedes and I think a Ferrari too, and an Alpine, okay so three, we saw several
[04:51.080 -> 04:56.080] teams, and I know Mercedes in particular is the one I want to focus on here, say
[04:56.080 -> 05:00.560] that well yes we did a lot better at Australia but we haven't really brought
[05:00.560 -> 05:05.520] much in the way of development. So I'm thinking, what are they,
[05:05.520 -> 05:08.480] how are they getting this extra lap time
[05:08.480 -> 05:10.120] if they're not bringing developments,
[05:10.120 -> 05:11.700] if there's not some,
[05:11.700 -> 05:14.620] if there's not just some details they're tweaking now?
[05:14.620 -> 05:16.200] Because it seems like to me,
[05:16.200 -> 05:20.340] they sort of took a dip your toe in the water approach
[05:20.340 -> 05:22.880] to this season, like, oh, we'll just sort of see,
[05:22.880 -> 05:24.720] and then maybe we'll get in deeper,
[05:24.720 -> 05:30.720] or maybe we'll change course. So how are these teams making these gains if they're not bringing
[05:30.720 -> 05:36.000] developments? Okay, well, I'll answer that in terms of both Ferrari and Mercedes, because
[05:36.000 -> 05:40.480] obviously they're the ones that are closest in terms of chasing, aside from Aston Martin,
[05:40.480 -> 05:45.120] obviously. Those two teams in Australia, for argument's sake,
[05:45.120 -> 05:47.740] Ferrari had nothing, no developments available
[05:47.740 -> 05:48.760] for that particular race.
[05:48.760 -> 05:51.440] Whereas Mercedes had a small change
[05:51.440 -> 05:53.360] to the edge of their floor,
[05:53.360 -> 05:56.040] which is regarding the way in which
[05:56.040 -> 05:58.040] that you control the airflow
[05:58.040 -> 06:00.120] being pushed laterally off the floor.
[06:00.120 -> 06:02.400] Now, in terms of what the teams are actually doing
[06:02.400 -> 06:04.020] in this early stage of the season
[06:04.020 -> 06:07.760] is they're kind of in a bit of a holding pattern. As you mentioned, obviously,
[06:07.760 -> 06:12.320] they've kind of dipped their toe in the water. They've seen how the cars behaved at the preseason
[06:12.320 -> 06:17.440] test, and there's a latency in then them getting development onto the car. So most of the teams,
[06:17.440 -> 06:27.120] you won't really see anything of substance come until Baku. And then we might be looking at say Imola, realistically for something
[06:27.120 -> 06:33.760] of a big package coming forward that might have the sort of update that you would want for
[06:33.760 -> 06:40.640] performance of, you know, sort of a few tenths. What they've been adding realistically at the
[06:40.640 -> 06:45.280] moment in these early phases is just corrective surgery in order to try to
[06:45.280 -> 06:49.680] improve upon what they've already got, rather than actually making big leaps
[06:49.680 -> 06:50.160] forward.
[06:50.640 -> 06:55.040] And I think that's where we're kind of standing in the early stages of the
[06:55.040 -> 06:58.600] season under these new regulations because of the cost cap and because of
[06:58.600 -> 07:02.920] where they stand in terms of the resource restrictions, the teams are always going
[07:02.920 -> 07:07.440] to be a little bit more limited and they have to spread out that development over the course of an entire
[07:07.440 -> 07:07.960] season.
[07:08.380 -> 07:13.080] Now, if you think about what Red Bull have done in comparison, they've kind of
[07:13.840 -> 07:15.560] flipped the script in many ways.
[07:15.880 -> 07:20.200] And there was much talk about how much quicker they were in Jeddah, especially
[07:20.200 -> 07:24.560] with DRS because of their straight line speed.
[07:25.000 -> 07:29.400] especially with DRS, because of their straight line speed. Now, they were the only team to have a unique rear wing
[07:29.400 -> 07:33.160] available for that venue and a beam wing set up.
[07:33.160 -> 07:35.160] And so that kind of stands out to me
[07:35.160 -> 07:37.240] as the massive difference between the rest of the teams
[07:37.240 -> 07:39.920] because they brought forward a development
[07:39.920 -> 07:41.920] that perhaps other teams will have to wait
[07:41.920 -> 07:44.320] until say Baku for, and that's when we'll see
[07:44.320 -> 07:46.280] their lower downforce rear wing
[07:46.280 -> 07:48.280] and offer them more efficiency.
[07:48.280 -> 07:50.320] So it's really about this trade off
[07:50.320 -> 07:53.720] between what the teams have found in pre-season testing,
[07:53.720 -> 07:55.520] whether they've come out the blocks quick
[07:55.520 -> 07:57.800] and the car works as they expected,
[07:57.800 -> 08:00.080] and obviously how they plan to develop
[08:00.080 -> 08:06.080] throughout the course of the season in the opening races.
[08:06.760 -> 08:09.560] Okay, well, if that's the case, then there's one more thing that
[08:09.560 -> 08:12.840] I want to get to before we start discussing sort of specific
[08:12.840 -> 08:17.960] teams. And that would be the comment that Lewis Hamilton made
[08:18.000 -> 08:22.320] about his car and specifically about the cockpit positioning.
[08:22.960 -> 08:26.360] And as usual, I have a multitude of queries to
[08:26.360 -> 08:32.480] toss at you, but basically they boiled on to how is it that it bothers him and not
[08:32.480 -> 08:38.680] Russell? How is it that he didn't notice it last year? And why is it that having
[08:38.680 -> 08:44.440] been informed of this, Mercedes chose to go with that anyway? Because to my
[08:44.440 -> 08:46.400] recollection, he was more or less told,
[08:46.400 -> 08:52.240] well, yes, we understand you don't like it, but it makes the car faster enough that you should be
[08:52.240 -> 08:59.280] able to live with it. Okay. So first of all, anybody who's listened to Tech Time for a while,
[08:59.280 -> 09:04.080] I actually brought this up at the end of last season. It was only briefly mentioned,
[09:04.080 -> 09:05.280] but I did mention it on one of the podcasts at the end of last season. It was only briefly mentioned but I did mention it on one of
[09:05.280 -> 09:11.840] the podcasts at the end of last season in regards to my understanding of where their cockpit position
[09:11.840 -> 09:19.760] was and would they make changes going into 2023. Now I'm just going to read you some extracts from
[09:19.760 -> 09:25.640] the comments that Lewis Hamilton made. I don't know if people know, but we sit
[09:25.640 -> 09:29.600] closer to the front wheels than all the other drivers. Our cockpit is too close
[09:29.600 -> 09:33.280] to the front. When you're driving you feel like you're on sitting on the front
[09:33.280 -> 09:36.680] wheels, which is one of the worst feelings to feel when you're driving a
[09:36.680 -> 09:41.560] car. I listened to the team and that was the direction that they said they wish
[09:41.560 -> 09:45.520] that we should go. Had I known the feeling that I would have in it,
[09:45.520 -> 09:51.920] I wouldn't have allowed this to happen. It has to change in the future 100%.
[09:51.920 -> 09:58.760] Now, the way that I'm going to explain this is if you imagine yourself sat on a rocking horse,
[09:58.760 -> 10:05.920] and you're sat behind the saddle, you're going to have a certain feeling when the rocking horse pitches
[10:05.920 -> 10:11.440] backwards and forwards. If you're sat in the middle, in the optimum position on the saddle,
[10:11.440 -> 10:16.560] you're not going to feel the forces so much going backwards and forwards. If you're sat in Lewis
[10:16.560 -> 10:20.560] Hamilton's position and George Russell's position on the front of the saddle, you're going to have
[10:20.560 -> 10:28.480] a very different feeling that feels very front end. And I think that's kind of the way that I'm going to sum that up in terms of how Lewis perhaps
[10:28.480 -> 10:34.320] feels he's driving the car. He did also say in those comments, if you look at the past,
[10:34.320 -> 10:39.120] I've always enjoyed an oversteering car. And now the biggest problem with the setup that
[10:39.120 -> 10:47.800] he currently has is that the car is basically set up to understeer. And also we've got this problem with the Pirelli tires
[10:47.800 -> 10:50.040] having changed construction this year
[10:50.040 -> 10:52.400] to try to reduce that understeer.
[10:52.400 -> 10:53.600] So I think we're, you know,
[10:53.600 -> 10:56.240] Mercedes are a bit caught in the middle
[10:56.240 -> 11:00.460] in terms of their particular setup in that regard.
[11:00.460 -> 11:02.040] And if you look at Red Bull,
[11:02.040 -> 11:03.920] they're on the other end of the spectrum.
[11:03.920 -> 11:04.920] If you look at the two,
[11:04.920 -> 11:06.520] they are very contrasting positions in
[11:06.520 -> 11:08.480] terms of their cockpit position.
[11:08.720 -> 11:12.600] And it has a massive bearing, not only on how the driver perceives the
[11:12.600 -> 11:15.680] loads front to rear because of the center of gravity and the center of
[11:15.680 -> 11:20.000] pressure shift, but also on what you do with the packaging of components.
[11:20.280 -> 11:22.920] And obviously that then breeds into development as well.
[11:23.640 -> 11:24.000] Okay.
[11:24.000 -> 11:27.000] So I do want to follow up here.
[11:27.000 -> 11:39.000] I'm not going to be putting my cockpit in my driver, which is one of the heaviest things that I have some control over in terms of balancing the car.
[11:39.000 -> 11:42.000] Because as we all know, ballast is a very useful thing to have.
[11:42.000 -> 11:46.860] And essentially drivers, while they do perform some useful functions otherwise,
[11:46.920 -> 11:49.120] are basically a huge sack of ballast.
[11:49.200 -> 11:51.860] If you're a car designer,
[11:51.920 -> 11:56.700] I'm only going to be sticking it that my driver that far forward
[11:56.760 -> 12:01.420] if something, it seems like to me, has gone seriously wrong
[12:01.500 -> 12:29.240] with my aero balance or the rest of the balance of the car, where I put the components. So is this an assumption what Red Bull's doing for argument's sake with their particular arrangements, because
[12:29.240 -> 12:32.880] they have their driver further back in the car it means that they have to
[12:32.880 -> 12:38.600] perhaps have a wider fuel cell to accommodate the difference in length
[12:38.600 -> 12:43.160] that they're missing from having a forward cockpit. But it also means that
[12:43.160 -> 12:46.360] they're able to take elements from out of the side pods,
[12:46.360 -> 12:50.000] i.e. the electronics and reservoirs, et cetera,
[12:50.000 -> 12:51.920] that are normally housed within there,
[12:51.920 -> 12:54.000] and they can put them underneath the chassis.
[12:54.000 -> 12:56.760] Because if you think about where the driver would be sat,
[12:56.760 -> 13:00.480] his butt is essentially further forward in the Mercedes,
[13:00.480 -> 13:02.000] further rearward in the Red Bull,
[13:02.000 -> 13:05.040] and it just opens up that space underneath the chassis.
[13:10.240 -> 13:16.240] That obviously contributes to the Red Bull having this massive undercut that nobody else appears to have. Other teams are somewhere in between the two distances that we're talking about with Mercedes
[13:16.240 -> 13:21.600] and Red Bull, but it is a factor and it's something obviously that you have to consider when you're
[13:21.600 -> 13:26.120] designing the philosophy of the car and it's not something that can be easily remedied
[13:26.120 -> 13:27.680] aside from a new chassis.
[13:27.680 -> 13:29.600] And we're not gonna see that throughout the course
[13:29.600 -> 13:32.200] of a season that is cost cap restricted
[13:32.200 -> 13:33.840] and also development restricted.
[13:33.840 -> 13:37.080] So it is something that they will have to make changes
[13:37.080 -> 13:40.000] around, they'll have to work around those issues.
[13:40.000 -> 13:43.140] And obviously in terms of aero balance,
[13:43.140 -> 13:45.220] which I think is probably where,
[13:49.180 -> 13:49.480] uh, Lewis is having the most issues and on the, on the breaks for argument's sake.
[13:52.820 -> 13:55.880] Um, I think it will be a case of that, the, the, the updates that will come, we'll try to resolve some of those issues, but it's not going to
[13:55.880 -> 13:57.560] fundamentally change things.
[13:58.320 -> 13:58.680] Okay.
[13:58.680 -> 14:03.280] And so in some ways, then this is kind of similar to what we saw with Max at the
[14:03.280 -> 14:05.640] beginning of last season, where the
[14:06.060 -> 14:10.900] fundamental balance of the car just really didn't make him happy, but over the course of the season
[14:11.720 -> 14:14.000] Red Bull was able to bring developments
[14:15.240 -> 14:20.540] to the extent their car design allowed to give him what he needed.
[14:21.000 -> 14:23.480] So I guess if there's a final question is,
[14:27.320 -> 14:33.880] he needed. So I guess if there's a final question is, do you have any concept, given the seating position, how much Mercedes will be able to give Lewis what he's seeking with simply development
[14:33.880 -> 14:39.080] over the course of a season versus with redesigning the entire chassis and moving the seating
[14:39.080 -> 14:40.080] position?
[14:40.080 -> 14:45.840] Well, I think it's clear to say that some of what they're going to do is regarding suspension
[14:45.840 -> 14:49.280] because we've already seen the team mention that. So they're going to make some changes
[14:49.280 -> 14:54.720] in that area. And it's interesting that Red Bull themselves have actually made changes this year
[14:54.720 -> 14:59.360] to their suspension layout at the front end. They've moved their front axle line forward.
[15:00.160 -> 15:07.680] So they've tried to deal with the change in the Pirelli tyre construction,
[15:07.680 -> 15:10.640] because they've shifted the axle line forward,
[15:10.640 -> 15:12.640] they've extended the wheelbase of the car.
[15:12.640 -> 15:17.040] But that also has some interesting connotations when you think about
[15:17.040 -> 15:21.040] the aerodynamic wake that the front wheels develop,
[15:21.040 -> 15:26.080] and how that now will be different as it hits the underfloor and
[15:26.080 -> 15:30.920] the side pods relative to the axle line being more rearwards. So there's lots of
[15:30.920 -> 15:34.200] things that can be changed. The axle line position could be changed on the
[15:34.200 -> 15:39.520] Mercedes technically. Whether that's a route that they will decide to take I'm
[15:39.520 -> 15:45.800] not really the right person to ask about that. We need Mike Elliott in the chat.
[15:47.760 -> 15:51.960] But I think, as I mentioned earlier, you can't fundamentally change
[15:51.960 -> 15:53.120] the decisions they've made.
[15:53.120 -> 15:57.480] The W14 is what it is, and you have to work around those issues.
[15:59.800 -> 16:04.440] A lot has been said about the zero pod solution, and obviously
[16:04.720 -> 16:06.740] I kind of call these ones the half a pod
[16:06.740 -> 16:09.500] because they're not really zero pods anymore.
[16:09.500 -> 16:12.420] But fundamentally, I think that's a bit of a misnomer.
[16:12.420 -> 16:13.880] It's a bit of a red herring.
[16:13.880 -> 16:16.340] I still don't think it's the major contributing factor
[16:16.340 -> 16:19.080] to the performance issues that Mercedes have had
[16:19.080 -> 16:21.900] since 2022 and into 2023.
[16:21.900 -> 16:26.920] It's more to do with this issue that they have with the way the car
[16:26.920 -> 16:32.760] balances and also obviously the way that the floor performs over a wider range of working
[16:32.760 -> 16:38.080] conditions. That's where I think that they're falling slightly behind and I think it's where
[16:38.080 -> 16:42.400] they may struggle with this year's car and have to fundamentally change things moving
[16:42.400 -> 16:50.240] into 2024. Yeah, well, it does seem that they have now acknowledged the fact that it's insufficient,
[16:51.200 -> 16:57.360] and not even insufficient, perhaps, as we see in Australia, to fight with Ferrari for second
[16:57.360 -> 17:02.480] overall. But it's going to be insufficient to catch Red Bull, and therefore they're going to,
[17:03.360 -> 17:08.100] they're going to, I guess, go with a Tabula Rasa, a fresh slate.
[17:09.600 -> 17:12.800] Yeah, and I think the other thing that you have to think about
[17:12.800 -> 17:15.600] in this whole scenario is where Aston Martin fall in the mix
[17:15.600 -> 17:18.300] as well, because obviously they've done a fantastic job with
[17:18.300 -> 17:22.300] this year's car. Undoubtedly, I would suggest it's the second
[17:22.300 -> 17:28.480] quickest car in the field and we have to think about how much more they have
[17:28.480 -> 17:30.840] in terms of the resource restrictions
[17:30.840 -> 17:32.340] for CFD and Wintelno this year,
[17:32.340 -> 17:33.840] because of where they finished
[17:33.840 -> 17:36.120] in the Constructors' Championship last year.
[17:36.120 -> 17:38.440] So up until the 30th of June this year,
[17:38.440 -> 17:41.080] they're at full tilt compared to the other teams.
[17:41.080 -> 17:43.640] They have a huge amount of resource available to them.
[17:43.640 -> 17:46.640] And I'm really interested to see what they have in the pipeline in terms of,
[17:46.960 -> 17:51.200] you know, substantial upgrades, uh, as we head towards that horizon, because
[17:51.200 -> 17:55.480] it could really put them in, in, uh, the box seat for, for second place.
[17:56.480 -> 17:56.760] Yeah.
[17:56.760 -> 18:02.560] And I do want to take a moment because I think we have rightfully made severe
[18:02.560 -> 18:07.720] fun of Aston for copying other people's homework beyond the
[18:07.720 -> 18:10.580] level that one normally would in Formula One.
[18:10.580 -> 18:15.680] But I do want to point out that to the best of my knowledge, this is an original Aston
[18:15.680 -> 18:16.680] design.
[18:16.680 -> 18:19.680] This is not them copying other teams.
[18:19.680 -> 18:27.280] Well, obviously we've had the Xerox effect over the course of the last few years with Aston Martin.
[18:27.280 -> 18:31.600] They did literally copy everybody's homework for a number of years.
[18:31.600 -> 18:37.200] And there's nothing wrong with that in many ways because, you know, at the end of the day, they were a midfield team.
[18:37.200 -> 18:38.960] They're looking to get up the rankings.
[18:38.960 -> 18:45.040] If you can't do it yourself, you find somebody else's homework, copy their results and see how you get on and
[18:45.040 -> 18:50.240] hope you don't get caught for it, which unfortunately they did with the brakes a couple of years back.
[18:50.240 -> 18:54.640] And I think that was obviously going to put the mockers on what they were doing in the future.
[18:54.640 -> 19:01.680] However, this year's car, I'm not going to say it's not a copy because it's not the Red Bull.
[19:01.680 -> 19:06.000] And I don't know where that assertion from people comes from, that it's a green bull.
[19:06.000 -> 19:12.000] Yes, last year, the upgrade that they bought mid-season was essentially a copy of the Red Bull.
[19:12.000 -> 19:14.000] However, this year's car is not.
[19:14.000 -> 19:16.000] It is fundamentally an Aston Martin.
[19:16.000 -> 19:22.000] It has taken influence from other teams, but every team does that.
[19:22.000 -> 19:25.040] Now, the closest I would actually say it aligns
[19:25.040 -> 19:26.640] to any team on the grid,
[19:26.640 -> 19:28.100] certainly in terms of the side pods,
[19:28.100 -> 19:30.480] or as I call them slide pods,
[19:30.480 -> 19:34.920] is the Alpine because it has their side pod solution,
[19:34.920 -> 19:37.340] only a much more aggressive version of it.
[19:38.360 -> 19:39.560] Like I say, I'm really impressed
[19:39.560 -> 19:40.880] with what Aston have done,
[19:40.880 -> 19:42.760] but they have had a huge amount of resource
[19:42.760 -> 19:45.600] at their disposal to be able to find these gains.
[19:45.800 -> 19:49.480] And that's where, when we get the reset from the championship
[19:49.480 -> 19:53.040] positions come the 1st of July, then they're going to be on an
[19:53.040 -> 19:54.560] even keel with those around them.
[19:54.600 -> 19:57.160] And that's where the, you know, the things will start to slide
[19:57.160 -> 19:59.160] backwards in, in respect to resources.
[19:59.160 -> 20:02.000] So let's see how they get on in the second half of the season
[20:02.000 -> 20:04.840] and how that has an impact on next year's car as well.
[20:12.240 -> 20:13.120] Okay. I love it. All you Alpine haters out there, I just want to point out, you've got one
[20:21.600 -> 20:26.720] less reason to hate them. And Alpine, so I was interested actually, and as I throw our entire game plan out of the window here. I was interested in the competitive balance in Australia,
[20:26.720 -> 20:29.680] and I want to talk about this because,
[20:29.680 -> 20:34.400] to talk about Alpine, they had a brand new rear end,
[20:34.400 -> 20:36.880] completely redesigned rear end.
[20:36.880 -> 20:40.880] They had a very bizarre testing, and really,
[20:40.880 -> 20:43.520] I mean, they've shown that they have the potential
[20:43.520 -> 20:48.520] for good results, but reality has apparently gotten in their way a little bit between penalties
[20:48.520 -> 20:54.240] and well you know that unfortunate restart at the end there but I'm curious
[20:54.240 -> 20:59.160] they showed really well here at Australia just looking at lap times
[20:59.160 -> 21:04.400] Mercedes showed really here at Australia looking at lap times and the thing that
[21:04.400 -> 21:10.620] I note is that because of the resurfacing it was a very smooth and low degradation
[21:10.620 -> 21:16.800] surface. Are we looking at, I guess, are we looking at there potentially some cars
[21:16.800 -> 21:20.960] that will only do well on very smooth circuits and will struggle when it's
[21:20.960 -> 21:30.800] bumpier due mainly to the ride height they need to run. Yeah, I think you've kind of nailed it there. I also think that, and perhaps we'll get into
[21:30.800 -> 21:35.520] this a little bit deeper later on, in terms of the way in which the teams operating the
[21:35.520 -> 21:40.000] opening phase of the season can be very different to how they do in the middle to end of the
[21:40.000 -> 21:46.560] season once they've kind of figured out where the tyres are in terms of their warm-up window,
[21:46.560 -> 21:52.360] in terms of how to maintain degradation and how to get the best from qualifying and the
[21:52.360 -> 21:53.360] race.
[21:53.360 -> 22:02.080] And I'll also add at this point that Pirelli are bringing tyres within the very soft end
[22:02.080 -> 22:04.640] of the range to the next few races.
[22:04.640 -> 22:07.400] So obviously that is going to have an impact on those other teams that have
[22:07.400 -> 22:12.080] perhaps done well with the harder end of the spectrum in the opening few races
[22:12.080 -> 22:12.640] this season.
[22:12.640 -> 22:16.200] So obviously Pirelli are a little bit more conservative as we come out the
[22:16.200 -> 22:21.560] gates, they don't want to obviously create a situation that is just of their
[22:21.560 -> 22:22.200] making.
[22:22.440 -> 22:27.240] And so teams kind of have to be aware of the fact that
[22:27.240 -> 22:29.600] things are going to change as the season progresses
[22:29.600 -> 22:32.840] and the Pirelli will become more of a factor.
[22:32.840 -> 22:38.080] Having said that, I think it will be difficult for anybody
[22:38.080 -> 22:42.280] to overwhelm Red Bull in just tire management alone.
[22:42.280 -> 22:47.240] But interestingly, I think there's a disparity between what Red Bull does in
[22:47.240 -> 22:51.600] qualifying in terms of the distance between them and the rest of the field
[22:51.800 -> 22:53.400] compared to what they do during the race.
[22:53.400 -> 22:57.920] And I think that's indicative again of this tire warmup situation, whereas
[22:57.920 -> 23:01.480] they're better on the harder range of the tires than they are on the
[23:01.480 -> 23:02.640] soft range of the tires.
[23:03.400 -> 23:04.000] Okay.
[23:04.160 -> 23:05.280] You've hooked me.
[23:05.520 -> 23:07.980] Please explain that comment further.
[23:07.980 -> 23:13.840] Cause as best I can tell, uh, Ferrari, um, and or occasionally Mercedes
[23:13.940 -> 23:20.020] seem to be closer and qualifying, but nobody has the race performance
[23:20.020 -> 23:21.480] on tires that Red Bull has.
[23:22.200 -> 23:22.840] Yeah, correct.
[23:22.840 -> 23:28.360] And I think there's a few things that go into that, um, in terms of how the
[23:28.360 -> 23:30.580] teams get to that particular window.
[23:30.900 -> 23:36.260] I think if you've read any of my articles recently, you'll have noted that I've put
[23:36.260 -> 23:39.600] a bit of focus on breaks this year and the way in which there's been some
[23:39.600 -> 23:53.000] developments from the teams and Brembo, but also in the way in which that they are using old tricks to teach these dogs to keep the tyres in that Goldilocks zone, if you want to call it that.
[23:53.000 -> 23:58.000] You know, you don't want to use up all your tyre life quickly.
[23:58.000 -> 24:04.000] And you also don't want a tyre that is going to go on forever, but give you very little in terms of performance.
[24:04.000 -> 24:09.320] And obviously you want to find that very good zone in the middle.
[24:09.480 -> 24:14.720] And I think from a race perspective, Red Bull have gone into the house.
[24:15.200 -> 24:18.920] They've looked at all three of the bowls on the table and said, no, thanks.
[24:18.920 -> 24:23.280] We'll use the microwave for our porridge because that's how we want to warm ours
[24:23.280 -> 24:26.400] up compared to what everybody else tends to be doing.
[24:26.800 -> 24:31.640] There's three teams in particular that I'd want to talk about in terms of
[24:31.640 -> 24:33.960] their front calipers.
[24:34.360 -> 24:39.520] Basically, they've gone along a similar line in terms of the design.
[24:39.560 -> 24:44.640] Red Bull, Aston Martin and Williams have a very similar solution in terms of
[24:44.640 -> 24:46.000] trying to reduce the
[24:46.000 -> 24:52.160] weight of the caliper in order that they can make gains, obviously from a weight perspective.
[24:52.160 -> 24:55.740] And in order to do that, they've taken an extreme amount of weight out of the skeleton
[24:55.740 -> 25:02.960] of the caliper, but in order that they don't overheat the caliper, they've used cooling
[25:02.960 -> 25:07.440] fin tubes, which make up some of that surface area and increase the
[25:07.440 -> 25:14.480] volume effectively. So that's one aspect of how they manage those brake temperatures. But on top
[25:14.480 -> 25:20.800] of that, if we look back at what teams used to do under the old regulations, rather than just use the
[25:20.800 -> 25:27.680] brake ducts for brake cooling, they try to transmit some of that heat into the
[25:27.680 -> 25:33.800] bulk of the tyre via the wheel rim. Now we have a sole supplier for wheel rims this year,
[25:33.800 -> 25:41.000] and indeed in 2022, so all of the teams are dealing with the same product, which should
[25:41.000 -> 25:49.920] make life easier for people to catch up to these tricks. Last year we had the brake fairings introduced that go over the brake disc
[25:49.920 -> 25:54.280] and that is partly what I'm mentioning about this heat transference.
[25:54.280 -> 25:57.800] If you imagine the car braking in a straight line,
[25:57.800 -> 26:02.560] there's heat being generated into the caliper, into the pads and into the discs.
[26:02.560 -> 26:05.760] You reject some of that heat out of the discs
[26:05.760 -> 26:07.240] via the drilling holes.
[26:07.240 -> 26:10.280] And then obviously that has to go somewhere.
[26:10.280 -> 26:12.680] So some of that heat will be rejected
[26:12.680 -> 26:14.440] out of the cooling outlets,
[26:14.440 -> 26:17.160] but along the way via these fairings
[26:17.160 -> 26:19.280] and the way in which the brake drums are set up,
[26:19.280 -> 26:23.000] you will transmit that heat into the wheel rim
[26:23.000 -> 26:25.880] and via the wheel rim to the bulk temperature of the tire.
[26:25.880 -> 26:29.800] Now, if you've got a handle on this really well, you are going to improve your performance.
[26:29.800 -> 26:33.400] You're going to change the way in which you heat up your tires.
[26:33.680 -> 26:37.040] And you're also going to maintain that temperature over a long period
[26:37.040 -> 26:39.000] of time to improve degradation.
[26:39.240 -> 26:43.760] And I think that's the, one of the big tricks that teams are having to work with
[26:44.080 -> 26:45.600] over the course of this first part of
[26:45.600 -> 26:50.320] the season. And then we'll start to see developments and certain teams will catch up in many respects.
[26:51.200 -> 26:57.760] Okay, so if I'm understanding this correctly, essentially between the fairings and the
[26:57.760 -> 27:06.640] radiator tubes, the teams that have pursued this solution are able to create what I'm imagining would be a fairly stable
[27:07.680 -> 27:16.320] heater for their tires so that on long straights they don't get as cold but that in turns where
[27:16.320 -> 27:23.920] lots of energy is put into the tire and the brakes it keeps the tire bulk from overheating and I guess
[27:23.920 -> 27:26.960] maybe it's worth reminding people that the tire has got
[27:26.960 -> 27:32.480] sidewalls, it's got bulk or carcass, and then it's got a tread laid over on top of it that might be
[27:32.480 -> 27:38.640] multiple compounds both laterally and vertically. So the difference between a hard, soft, and medium
[27:38.640 -> 27:50.040] can be multiple compounds spread across the tire. You might have a different shoulder compound than you do have the bit that runs straight along. But having a constant heat source and
[27:50.040 -> 27:55.680] especially if I'm understanding what you're implying here, the ability to set
[27:55.680 -> 27:59.680] it at different temperatures at different tracks via the amount of
[27:59.680 -> 28:04.920] blanking that happens on the intakes for the brake ducts is essentially letting
[28:04.920 -> 28:05.520] Red Bull
[28:06.240 -> 28:09.680] and Williams, which might explain why suddenly they're doing a lot better,
[28:10.240 -> 28:16.560] and Aston have a great deal better control over tire degradation and tire warmup.
[28:17.280 -> 28:21.760] Yeah, correct. So now obviously the one thing to mention as well is how good the Aston Martin is
[28:21.760 -> 28:29.320] on the brakes. It is by far the best on the grid. They've made massive changes this year to their setup because their caliper used to be housed in
[28:29.320 -> 28:33.560] what we call the three o'clock position, i.e. it's at the front of the assembly. This year
[28:33.560 -> 28:38.400] they've switched to a more Red Bull style position for the brake caliper. That then
[28:38.400 -> 28:49.200] allows you to change the way in which these fairings that surround the caliper, the disc, and then obviously you have more brake drums inside the main brake drum.
[28:49.200 -> 28:52.400] It's like a nesting, a Russian nesting doll with inside there.
[28:52.400 -> 29:02.200] It's how you transmit these temperatures from one aspect to the other, how the cooling can basically escape out the rear outlet.
[29:02.200 -> 29:07.400] And as you mentioned, obviously, that this has a bearing on the way in which
[29:07.400 -> 29:10.040] the tyre performs over a short period of time
[29:10.040 -> 29:12.400] and over the course of a race stint.
[29:13.480 -> 29:16.000] The drivers have constantly got the temperatures
[29:16.000 -> 29:18.360] on their dashboards for the tyres
[29:18.360 -> 29:23.360] because it is so critical to manage the temperatures
[29:23.560 -> 29:25.280] throughout the course of a stint.
[29:25.280 -> 29:30.680] It's why in Australia, obviously, we saw the qualifying session we did because the track's
[29:30.680 -> 29:33.040] very green.
[29:33.040 -> 29:37.960] People are actually improving on old tires just because they're putting the tires through
[29:37.960 -> 29:43.120] a heat cycle on a green track versus going in and taking a fresh set, which you would
[29:43.120 -> 29:45.320] think would be the quicker route.
[29:48.040 -> 29:48.320] So it's a very delicate situation.
[29:55.120 -> 29:56.600] And tires, as we know, has always been a controversial aspect when we talk about the technical side of things.
[29:56.880 -> 30:00.520] But I do think it is one of the factors that's in play in this
[30:00.560 -> 30:01.840] early stage of the season.
[30:02.000 -> 30:05.160] And it's where teams will look for performance as they open up into the middle of the season. And it's where teams will look for performance as they open up
[30:05.160 -> 30:06.160] into the middle of the season.
[30:07.000 -> 30:10.480] I'm glad you opened the door to my first real ambush of this
[30:10.480 -> 30:10.980] chat.
[30:11.680 -> 30:15.600] Um, because we saw comments, uh, someone tweeted them at me to
[30:15.600 -> 30:16.000] be fair.
[30:16.000 -> 30:18.560] I might not have seen them on my own from Lando Norris,
[30:19.400 -> 30:24.200] absolutely trashing the Pirelli tires and their performance and
[30:24.200 -> 30:26.240] their lack of grip.
[30:26.240 -> 30:33.040] And if I'm being honest, I'm thinking maybe he's mistaking his car's performance for Pirelli's
[30:33.040 -> 30:38.480] performance because I don't see Red Bull having a huge issue with that right now.
[30:38.480 -> 30:39.720] Would I be wrong about that?
[30:39.720 -> 30:44.240] Or does he have a legitimate gripe from your point of view?
[30:44.240 -> 30:48.240] Obviously all of the drivers would prefer a tire that is going to give them maximum
[30:48.240 -> 30:51.040] performance at all times.
[30:51.040 -> 30:56.360] So it's always going to be an issue for every single driver because they just want to drive
[30:56.360 -> 31:01.320] flat out all of the time and they don't want anything to get in the way of that.
[31:01.320 -> 31:11.400] But then we also have to think about things like lift and coast, the amount of fuel they're using. F1 cars are rarely driven on the absolute limit. That's
[31:11.400 -> 31:19.680] a fact, especially during a race stint. In terms of Islando's comments misplaced, I would
[31:19.680 -> 31:26.120] probably think that given that he's driving a car that is basically last year's Singapore
[31:26.120 -> 31:30.780] spec if we're talking about where McLaren are in terms of development, then they're
[31:30.780 -> 31:33.400] in a very different league to those around them.
[31:33.400 -> 31:38.960] Unfortunately McLaren are in a tricky situation because their car isn't where they'd like
[31:38.960 -> 31:41.200] it to be.
[31:41.200 -> 31:46.000] They appear to be wanting to bring a big update in the coming races.
[31:46.000 -> 31:52.000] But it's almost as if they're sort of maybe half a season behind the ball
[31:52.000 -> 31:55.000] in terms of aero development.
[31:55.000 -> 31:59.000] Because as I mentioned, I was expecting a big change from them
[31:59.000 -> 32:02.000] when their car launched this year, and it was basically last year's
[32:02.000 -> 32:04.000] Singapore spec.
[32:04.000 -> 32:06.240] So yeah, they are behind the scenes.
[32:06.800 -> 32:12.240] They're a bit slow out of the traps. But as we know, there's a lot of changes going on there.
[32:12.240 -> 32:18.400] We've lost Seidel and now James Key. And obviously that means a big shuffle up in the deck and that
[32:18.400 -> 32:30.560] means changes everywhere up and down their infrastructure. Yeah. And did we not hear that in essence, what has happened is they've, they missed
[32:30.560 -> 32:34.640] their development target for the start of the season that like they made a discovery
[32:34.640 -> 32:41.440] about two or three weeks late concluded they couldn't have it. Couldn't redo the, what
[32:41.440 -> 32:50.560] they had done in time for the start of the season. So are, not supposed to be bringing, like, almost a B-spec car at some point in the not
[32:50.560 -> 32:51.360] too distant future?
[32:51.360 -> 32:53.280] SIMON That's the kind of thing that I would expect,
[32:53.280 -> 32:56.880] to be honest, and I expect quite a big performance leap forward when that happens.
[32:56.880 -> 33:02.080] Because as I say, the car is very, very, very similar to what we saw in their upgrade package
[33:02.080 -> 33:03.200] for Singapore last year.
[33:04.400 -> 33:08.960] And as I say, I expected a big leap forward with the car when it launched.
[33:09.280 -> 33:12.720] And I looked at the images and thought it was last year's calf to start with
[33:12.960 -> 33:15.000] because the changes were so minimal.
[33:15.000 -> 33:20.680] So hopefully we will see them with a big package in the coming weeks.
[33:20.920 -> 33:24.920] I think in either Imola, Spain, around that sort of territory.
[33:25.200 -> 33:28.560] And then we'll see how they get on from there, but they've got a big way to
[33:29.200 -> 33:30.800] vote back up the table.
[33:31.520 -> 33:35.200] Well, if they bring it in Imola, there's going to be yet another surprise for him.
[33:35.200 -> 33:38.920] And I do want to talk about that in a minute, but, but I also want to talk about
[33:38.920 -> 33:42.600] something that everybody was talking about, which is triple DRS.
[33:43.000 -> 33:45.800] DRS efficiencies are now on the tip of
[33:45.800 -> 33:51.200] everyone's tongue and I would like an explainer like what are they really
[33:51.200 -> 33:54.680] talking like how are they deriving this what are they really talking about here?
[33:54.680 -> 34:00.760] Well I think the the term triple DRS is what you would term to be over egging a
[34:00.760 -> 34:05.760] situation. I don't see that there's a massive silver bullet,
[34:05.760 -> 34:10.320] let's say in the use of the term triple DRS,
[34:10.320 -> 34:14.200] because unless you're actually talking about the effect
[34:14.200 -> 34:16.800] of stalling the rear wing, the beam wing,
[34:16.800 -> 34:18.560] and the diffuser as triple DRS,
[34:18.560 -> 34:21.280] then I can kind of live with that fact,
[34:21.280 -> 34:24.980] because that's what they're all doing to some certain extent.
[34:26.080 -> 34:31.960] But as I mentioned earlier in the show, the one big thing or big difference that we saw from
[34:31.960 -> 34:38.960] Red Bull and why we saw them really just very, very quick in Jeddah is because they had a low
[34:39.040 -> 34:44.720] downforce or low to medium downforce specific wing brought forward for that event.
[34:45.160 -> 34:49.520] Whereas other teams were basically cutting the top flap.
[34:49.520 -> 34:52.140] You know, they were taking drag off via the top flap.
[34:52.140 -> 34:54.460] Now that has a twofold effect.
[34:55.500 -> 34:59.920] The cutting of the top flap reduces drag on the wing
[34:59.920 -> 35:02.520] as you run without DRS.
[35:02.520 -> 35:07.120] But it doesn't change the DRS offset very much.
[35:07.120 -> 35:08.920] Whereas if you look at what Red Bull did,
[35:08.920 -> 35:11.520] they introduced an entirely new design,
[35:11.520 -> 35:14.820] which had a new top flat main plane and end plate design.
[35:14.820 -> 35:16.400] So an entire new structure,
[35:16.400 -> 35:18.800] they ran a single beam wing elements
[35:18.800 -> 35:22.760] and essentially their DRS Delta was so much larger
[35:22.760 -> 35:25.200] because of the new designed rear wing.
[35:25.200 -> 35:28.800] So they were gaining all of that speed because they had something very specific for that
[35:28.800 -> 35:34.800] particular venue that they will again use in Baku and maybe they'll trim their top flap
[35:34.800 -> 35:39.520] for that particular event should they see the need.
[35:39.520 -> 35:42.560] But triple DRS I think is a bit of a, again, a bit of a red herring.
[35:42.560 -> 35:45.840] I don't think it's not a silver bullet that anybody can just go,
[35:45.840 -> 35:46.920] Oh, that's what they're doing.
[35:47.240 -> 35:52.400] Um, obviously there's other tricks being employed by teams when we think about
[35:52.400 -> 35:57.800] the way in which over eras of Formula One, we've had, um, you know, the diffuser
[35:57.800 -> 36:02.120] stall for argument's sake, uh, which it can be triggered a little bit easier.
[36:02.200 -> 36:05.320] Let's say under these the guise of these regulations
[36:05.320 -> 36:07.040] because you've got the beam wing
[36:07.040 -> 36:08.880] in the middle of that aero structure.
[36:08.880 -> 36:10.120] So if you turn off the rear wing,
[36:10.120 -> 36:11.120] you're turning off the beam wing,
[36:11.120 -> 36:14.460] you're turning off the diffuser, the reduced downforce,
[36:15.320 -> 36:17.760] how you set up your rear suspension
[36:17.760 -> 36:20.400] so that it does what it wants to do
[36:20.400 -> 36:23.560] at a certain speed threshold.
[36:23.560 -> 36:27.040] We've talked about this in the past, in order that you can
[36:27.040 -> 36:28.840] reduce downforce and drag.
[36:29.160 -> 36:32.320] And I think there's lots of people talking about how that
[36:32.320 -> 36:34.040] could be possibly implemented.
[36:34.400 -> 36:38.920] But obviously the teams don't have the tools suspension wise that they used
[36:38.920 -> 36:41.840] to have to perform those scenarios.
[36:42.600 -> 36:43.440] No, they don't.
[36:43.480 -> 36:49.100] But just out of curiosity, we've not given up on the idea of sort of
[36:49.300 -> 36:55.100] aero elasticity or flex as a possible explanation for where some teams
[36:55.100 -> 36:58.800] might be more efficient at high speeds in a straight line than others.
[37:00.100 -> 37:04.200] Yeah, I mean, obviously you still got to pass the flex tests and the
[37:04.200 -> 37:05.420] beamwink has one of
[37:05.420 -> 37:14.100] those. The diffuser is another topic as to whether that has a flex test and whether that
[37:14.100 -> 37:20.260] is a possibility of creating similar effects. But the beamwing does have obviously those
[37:20.260 -> 37:26.300] tests. Now, interestingly enough, in Australia who was in, who was the quickest in the
[37:26.300 -> 37:31.400] middle sector, Matt, in terms of straight line speed, other than the red balls?
[37:32.380 -> 37:33.740] Uh, was it the Alpines?
[37:34.280 -> 37:35.300] The Williams.
[37:35.360 -> 37:35.860] The Williams.
[37:35.860 -> 37:36.100] Okay.
[37:36.100 -> 37:36.760] Alex Albon.
[37:36.780 -> 37:40.020] And guess what they had as their beam wing set up.
[37:40.600 -> 37:43.740] Oh yeah, that'll be one element, just like the red balls.
[37:44.180 -> 37:46.840] So, you know, the, know, the beam wing element,
[37:46.840 -> 37:49.940] because it talks aerodynamically speaking
[37:49.940 -> 37:52.200] to the rear wing element above it,
[37:52.200 -> 37:56.600] and the diffuser below, can also be used as a mechanism
[37:56.600 -> 38:00.480] to improve the car balance, reduce drag,
[38:00.480 -> 38:04.240] or increase drag and add downforce
[38:04.240 -> 38:06.400] if you're at a certain circuit.
[38:06.400 -> 38:10.000] You know, we see Red Bull for argument's sake are going to use,
[38:10.000 -> 38:14.200] you know, a double element in the likes of the Hongara ring or Monaco.
[38:14.200 -> 38:16.400] They're not going to run a single element there.
[38:16.400 -> 38:19.600] But it is something that people should be aware of that, you know,
[38:19.600 -> 38:27.680] these different specifications of rear wing, beam wing configurations can have a big effect on the
[38:27.680 -> 38:32.880] performance of the car overall. Okay. So I'm thinking of, I have so many things I want to
[38:32.880 -> 38:41.280] talk about here, but beam wings, we haven't talked about a lot, but my fundamental understanding of
[38:41.280 -> 38:48.240] aerodynamics is that the faster you can extract air from under the car at the back,
[38:48.960 -> 38:53.040] the larger the pressure differential between the top and bottom of the car,
[38:53.760 -> 39:09.360] therefore the more downforce and more efficiency you get per unit of drag. And am I now wrong in thinking that the beam wing is incredibly valuable and important to this task
[39:09.360 -> 39:16.800] of extracting air from the diffuser at a velocity that makes the whole car more efficient?
[39:17.600 -> 39:27.260] Well, think of it as another flap above the diffuser. Think of the gurneys that we used to see on the trailing edge of the old diffusers
[39:27.260 -> 39:29.340] to increase their expansion ratio.
[39:31.160 -> 39:34.460] The beam wing is mounted above that section, obviously,
[39:34.460 -> 39:36.260] but it can work in a similar fashion.
[39:36.260 -> 39:39.700] In its own right, it will produce its own downforce,
[39:39.700 -> 39:42.500] its own drag, but as I've said,
[39:42.500 -> 39:44.860] it talks aerodynamically speaking
[39:44.860 -> 39:45.340] to the
[39:45.340 -> 39:46.480] surrounding components.
[39:46.480 -> 39:49.040] And you have to remember that you've got the bright winglet
[39:49.040 -> 39:50.560] stacks in that region as well.
[39:51.600 -> 39:55.720] We've also got what all the teams are doing in terms of tricks with the diffuser
[39:56.040 -> 40:04.320] and the edges of the diffuser in terms of how it produces its downforce and drag.
[40:04.620 -> 40:09.040] And so, yeah, it's a very interesting element.
[40:09.040 -> 40:12.480] They didn't remove it for no particular reason in 2014.
[40:12.480 -> 40:14.260] That's all I've got to say.
[40:14.260 -> 40:17.000] It was removed from the regulations in 2014.
[40:17.000 -> 40:19.880] It was reinstated with these regulations.
[40:20.880 -> 40:23.520] Will we see them retract it
[40:23.520 -> 40:25.600] if we have a rewrite of the regulations?
[40:25.600 -> 40:26.200] Who knows?
[40:26.200 -> 40:32.100] But it certainly is a factor and the way in which teams are using
[40:32.100 -> 40:36.500] it to trim, downforce and drag has certainly changed this year
[40:36.500 -> 40:39.400] compared to last year because I think they've suddenly realized
[40:39.400 -> 40:45.120] that they can use it as part of the whole scheme for those purposes.
[40:51.680 -> 40:59.680] Yeah, well, the reason I ask this is that I read on the internet a lovely story about the original Audi TT, which had a high-speed instability problem until they put it in a wind tunnel,
[40:59.680 -> 41:06.600] and essentially the engineers added what was not a lot more than a gurney flap to the
[41:06.600 -> 41:12.280] to the rear of the car on the trunk lid at which point not only did the car have
[41:12.280 -> 41:16.800] much more downforce and stability at a high speed it actually had a lower
[41:16.800 -> 41:22.980] overall drag ratio than it previously did and that's because the what you like
[41:22.980 -> 41:25.640] to call structures and I like to call
[41:25.640 -> 41:31.760] blowy things we're connecting in a more efficient fashion at the back of the car
[41:31.760 -> 41:36.120] and even going back I remember learning for the first time that oh the air
[41:36.120 -> 41:39.720] coming from the diffuser has to connect with the air coming over the top of the
[41:39.720 -> 41:45.280] front wing of the rear wing or none of your aerodynamics will work at all.
[41:45.280 -> 41:50.320] So it may be a thing that not a lot of people know, but the beam wings certainly
[41:50.320 -> 41:56.080] seems like it's getting to be more and more important to the overall design of the cars.
[41:56.840 -> 41:57.020] Yeah.
[41:57.020 -> 41:59.880] I mean, at the end of the day, if you don't connect these airflow
[41:59.880 -> 42:04.280] structures, you just get turbulence and turbulence will effectively create drag.
[42:04.320 -> 42:04.560] structures, you just get turbulence and turbulence will effectively create drag.
[42:09.560 -> 42:09.920] So if you can smooth out those transitionals with something in between,
[42:15.160 -> 42:17.400] i.e. the beam wing and other structures, you know, we, we see, we seen that there's certain convergence within the field.
[42:17.400 -> 42:20.980] And one of those is the way in which teams have moved the, the cooling
[42:20.980 -> 42:24.000] outlets, um, at the rear end of the car.
[42:28.800 -> 42:33.440] the cooling outlets at the rear end of the car. They're desperate to make it so that it's less impactful on the rest of the aerodynamic structures at the rear of the car because
[42:33.440 -> 42:40.400] obviously you've got slow moving heat rejection in a critical zone. So if you can do that more
[42:40.400 -> 42:45.840] efficiently then you're going to improve the whole. Every car has to be better
[42:45.840 -> 42:52.280] than the sum of its parts. A bit like your Audi TT analogy, if you add one thing and
[42:52.280 -> 42:58.240] it improves many others, then it's worthwhile. And that's why we often see teams using what
[42:58.240 -> 43:05.000] seems to be inefficient solutions, i.e. gurney flaps, in very strange positions on wings.
[43:05.200 -> 43:08.780] And it's because it's not always about
[43:08.780 -> 43:10.540] resolving a problem directly,
[43:10.540 -> 43:13.980] it's about resolving a problem indirectly.
[43:13.980 -> 43:16.500] Yeah, in other words, in a long chain,
[43:16.500 -> 43:20.960] that tiny detail will fix three or four or five other things
[43:20.960 -> 43:24.480] and make the handshake even firmer.
[43:24.480 -> 43:25.200] Exactly, yeah. I've talked about the aerodynamic handshake even firmer. Exactly. Yeah.
[43:25.600 -> 43:29.360] I've talked about the aerodynamic handshake on many occasions and, uh, and
[43:29.360 -> 43:33.000] it's certainly a case, you know, if you can have all of your eggs lined up in
[43:33.000 -> 43:36.440] your basket, then you don't have too many problems then.
[43:36.680 -> 43:41.240] And, um, it's all about getting things to work in that chain more effectively.
[43:42.000 -> 43:42.740] Uh, yeah.
[43:42.800 -> 43:49.160] And this kind of weirdly brings us back to, I guess, Mercedes a little bit.
[43:49.800 -> 43:54.880] And that in just talking about this with other people, it just seems like with the
[43:54.880 -> 44:04.240] zero or the 0.5 pod solution, they're requiring three or four or five fiddly
[44:04.240 -> 44:06.900] things to all work correctly.
[44:07.180 -> 44:13.960] Where is with your basic red bull or ferrari solution or i guess we could say alpine now i'll be asking solution.
[44:14.600 -> 44:22.180] That it's only one or two things and i was just curious if if you shared a similar viewpoint.
[44:23.480 -> 44:27.000] you shared a similar viewpoint. In terms of the Mercedes zero pods, half pods?
[44:27.000 -> 44:28.000] Yeah.
[44:28.000 -> 44:35.080] Yeah, I mean, as you say, is it too convoluted a solution, perhaps?
[44:35.080 -> 44:40.960] The one thing that stands out to me is that Mercedes clearly felt that there was still
[44:40.960 -> 44:46.560] development scope within that particular route to take it into this season,
[44:46.560 -> 44:51.200] which suggests that they either had problems in their wind tunnel that were unresolved going
[44:51.200 -> 44:58.720] into this season, which again is something that has been reported. And they weren't, because they
[44:58.720 -> 45:11.360] will have looked at these other solutions, they will look at a more benign. I would consider the Red Bull solution more benign than it is aggressive. Yes, obviously there's design cues on it that make it slightly
[45:11.360 -> 45:15.760] more aggressive than other versions of it, like the AlphaTari, for instance. The AlphaTari
[45:15.760 -> 45:26.000] has had that solution since the start as well. But Mercedes would have looked at these solutions in CFD, etc.
[45:26.000 -> 45:31.500] and decided that they don't feel that it's actually better than what they currently have.
[45:31.500 -> 45:38.000] So as I've mentioned earlier in the show, to me the side pods are just a part of the jigsaw.
[45:38.000 -> 45:41.000] It's not the only problem they have.
[45:41.000 -> 45:45.160] Fundamentally they have issues elsewhere around the car.
[45:45.160 -> 45:50.600] One of those is primarily the floor, because we know this from last season with the porpoising
[45:50.600 -> 45:56.340] and the bouncing, which obviously is exacerbated by the cockpit position, for the driver at
[45:56.340 -> 46:00.600] least, compared to somebody who sat further back in the car.
[46:00.600 -> 46:09.040] And I think, you know, that they've got to now accept the fact that they're going to move forward with something else.
[46:09.040 -> 46:17.960] But have they resolved the issues internally with their modeling, CFD, wind tunnel that they've reportedly had?
[46:17.960 -> 46:23.680] Because they need to have resolved those to get the maximum out of the change that they're going to make.
[46:23.720 -> 46:26.120] resolve those to get the maximum out of the change that they're going to make.
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[48:30.240 -> 48:35.040] All right, one, do I understand it correctly? A large part of getting the air from the front to
[48:35.040 -> 48:40.480] the back of the car is aided by the shapes of the side pod and the floor edge and the floor
[48:40.480 -> 48:46.440] edge fences. So the less side pod you have, the more vulnerable you're going to be to
[48:46.440 -> 48:53.000] things like wind and just the ramp and yaw and stuff like that. More easily disrupted your airflow
[48:53.000 -> 48:58.440] from front to back can be if you don't have structures you're using to help guide the air
[48:58.440 -> 48:59.840] where you want it to go.
[49:00.840 -> 49:07.320] Yeah, I mean, that's partly why they introduced those chassis blisters on the side of the
[49:07.320 -> 49:11.760] suspension area at the front of the car, which we now find on the Alfa Romeo as well.
[49:11.760 -> 49:17.040] It's because they were trying to change the flow direction at the front of the car in
[49:17.040 -> 49:22.600] order that they had more improvement further downstream behind into the side pods and the
[49:22.600 -> 49:27.280] under floor, which as we know thefloor is the most critical aspect of
[49:27.280 -> 49:29.800] the design under these new regulations.
[49:30.120 -> 49:34.640] You ace that, then you're doing well, which is where Red Bull
[49:34.640 -> 49:35.480] currently sits.
[49:35.800 -> 49:39.920] And obviously that again is ride height relative.
[49:40.320 -> 49:46.000] But yeah, I think fundamentally Mercedes have had to make a decision.
[49:46.000 -> 49:50.000] We can't get what we expected to get from the solution.
[49:50.000 -> 49:53.000] Now we've got to turn tail and look at something else.
[49:53.000 -> 49:54.000] Yeah.
[49:54.000 -> 49:59.000] And before we go on, because you've just said something and I have a question now about that.
[49:59.000 -> 50:09.840] But before we go on from Mercedes, the other thing that I'd heard was that fundamentally they'd set their targets incorrectly because the floor edge and diffuser throat changes being
[50:09.840 -> 50:14.840] raised solved the burbusing problem, but that they went ahead and solved it by
[50:14.840 -> 50:20.500] changing ride height for their concept and now essentially they can't run the
[50:20.500 -> 50:24.400] car low enough, whereas last season the problem seemed to be they can't run the
[50:24.400 -> 50:30.000] car high enough. So that does speak then to what you suggested, that there's a correlation problem
[50:30.000 -> 50:36.240] somewhere in their modelling that's causing them grief that needs to be resolved.
[50:36.240 -> 50:39.440] Yeah, I mean, they would be the first thing to fall foul of this at the end of the day.
[50:39.440 -> 50:44.480] And conceptually, you have to think that Mercedes have actually run on the very different
[50:46.040 -> 50:51.580] And conceptually, you have to think that Mercedes have actually run on the very different treadmill to everybody else for the last over a decade because they've run a low rate car, whereas
[50:51.580 -> 50:53.580] everybody else has run a high rate car.
[50:53.580 -> 50:58.300] So their model is obviously set out very differently to what everybody else is.
[50:58.300 -> 51:00.680] Their expectations are set out very differently.
[51:00.680 -> 51:05.280] And then suddenly you've got a change in regulation and perhaps
[51:05.280 -> 51:11.400] they've missed the eight ball in many respects. But yeah I think that they've
[51:11.400 -> 51:14.480] got to the point now where they've realized that they have to make a change
[51:14.480 -> 51:20.080] and unfortunately that might mean that they have to copy some of their rivals
[51:20.080 -> 51:26.020] in order to achieve their goals. And to be perfectly honest, I would expect
[51:26.020 -> 51:27.960] if they are going to make a change to the side pods
[51:27.960 -> 51:30.480] that we'd see something more Aston related
[51:30.480 -> 51:33.480] than we would Red Bull related or Ferrari related
[51:33.480 -> 51:36.800] just on the basis that they can see that that works
[51:36.800 -> 51:40.020] with their power unit and wheelbase setup.
[51:40.020 -> 51:42.260] Yeah, because it doesn't ask and take more or less
[51:42.260 -> 51:45.280] the entire rear end and gearbox from Mercedes.
[51:45.440 -> 51:45.940] They do.
[51:45.940 -> 51:50.120] They take the power unit, the gearbox, the entire rear end of the Aston
[51:50.120 -> 51:52.900] Martin is essentially a Mercedes.
[51:54.180 -> 51:58.980] So, you know, they can see that that concept is working elsewhere.
[51:59.700 -> 52:04.980] Take that and extend upon it based around your set of circumstances.
[52:04.980 -> 52:08.040] I mean, obviously it's not going to be the same because of the discussion
[52:08.040 -> 52:11.700] we've already had about the, you know, the issues that they currently have.
[52:11.700 -> 52:15.900] They're going to have to modify the Aston routes.
[52:16.180 -> 52:19.480] And also on top of that, there's still also the issue of the
[52:19.480 -> 52:21.180] side impact protection spars.
[52:21.560 -> 52:26.480] Those are critical in where you position things in terms of the radiators,
[52:26.480 -> 52:30.880] the side pods, et cetera. And obviously every team on the grid has a very different position for
[52:30.880 -> 52:36.240] those. And Mercedes certainly has a different position because they have that fairing that is
[52:36.240 -> 52:42.000] detached from the side pod effectively. Yeah. So I want to go back to something you mentioned
[52:42.000 -> 52:48.880] about the underfloor being very important. And one thing that I'm going to complain about here, and I'm curious if you have the same
[52:48.880 -> 52:56.440] thing is I've noticed that the marshals, when they recover cars, are being exceedingly careful
[52:56.440 -> 53:01.480] not to show the floor to the TV cameras and the photographers.
[53:01.480 -> 53:07.900] Now you have more photographic info flowing to you than I do, but are you
[53:07.900 -> 53:11.740] finding a similar thing? It's really hard to get a glimpse of what's going on there.
[53:11.740 -> 53:16.880] Yeah, I think they've been warned to be perfectly honest, that when they are putting the cars
[53:16.880 -> 53:22.480] on the flatbed trucks, etc, that they need to be conscious of the fact that they're going
[53:22.480 -> 53:25.360] to show the underfloor to the entire world.
[53:25.700 -> 53:27.620] And the teams don't want that.
[53:27.980 -> 53:31.160] There were several occasions last year where we obviously had that
[53:31.160 -> 53:35.100] situation unfold and we got very, very good pictures of the Red Bull,
[53:35.340 -> 53:39.640] the Ferrari, and some of the other competitors up and down the field,
[53:39.640 -> 53:43.620] which would have irked the teams exceptionally.
[53:44.040 -> 53:45.440] And you know what?
[53:45.580 -> 53:48.740] How many cars did we have on a, on a flatbed this race weekend?
[53:48.740 -> 53:50.440] And I haven't got a single picture.
[53:50.720 -> 53:54.320] So that just goes to show, and you know how many pictures I get.
[53:54.720 -> 53:55.520] Yes, I do.
[53:55.520 -> 53:56.460] And that's why I asked.
[53:56.460 -> 53:58.900] I thought maybe there's some enterprising photographers that
[53:58.900 -> 54:00.440] are doing a better job, but no.
[54:00.960 -> 54:03.920] They're keeping the most important stuff hidden from us.
[54:03.960 -> 54:11.120] And speaking of, since you were the maestro of regulations as well, am I wrong
[54:11.120 -> 54:15.360] in thinking that there is no flex test for the floor?
[54:16.160 -> 54:17.040] You'd be wrong.
[54:17.920 -> 54:18.520] There is one.
[54:18.560 -> 54:21.920] There is flex tests in certain positions along the floor.
[54:21.920 -> 54:22.420] Yes.
[54:23.040 -> 54:23.540] Okay.
[54:23.680 -> 54:24.180] All right.
[54:24.180 -> 54:27.880] Because the thing, one of the things that has struck me most about the last two
[54:27.880 -> 54:36.280] seasons, um, is that post, uh, TD39, less for the purposing and more for the
[54:36.280 -> 54:43.800] plank construction, we saw a massive fall away from Ferrari and none whatsoever
[54:43.800 -> 54:47.560] from Red Bull and the only thing I can think
[54:47.560 -> 54:51.880] of that explains that, and again if they're meeting a flex test then they're
[54:51.880 -> 54:55.980] within the regulation so please don't misunderstand my import here Red Bull
[54:55.980 -> 55:03.340] fans, is that they have discovered how to get the floor to bend in such a way they
[55:03.340 -> 55:08.960] can run at right heights, therefore more efficient downforce, that the
[55:08.960 -> 55:13.200] other teams can't, and they can do so with a more compliant, I'm
[55:13.200 -> 55:20.440] assuming rear end especially, to help them with low and mid
[55:20.440 -> 55:21.480] speed corners.
[55:22.560 -> 55:26.120] Yeah, I mean, all of the teams will be playing around with these scenarios.
[55:26.120 -> 55:30.000] Naldi doesn't try to gain performance from flexion.
[55:30.240 -> 55:34.840] It's why we see them using high-speed cameras in free practice sessions to
[55:34.840 -> 55:36.880] check, say, front wing flexion.
[55:37.200 -> 55:42.440] It's why we see the rakes around the car so that they can do exactly the same and
[55:42.440 -> 55:44.680] they will embed sensors within the floors.
[55:42.440 -> 55:44.960] that they can do exactly the same and they will embed sensors within the floors.
[55:46.360 -> 55:50.800] All of the parts of the car can infer extra performance
[55:50.800 -> 55:53.400] with flex if it's done in the right way.
[55:54.600 -> 55:58.640] If you can do via defeating the deflection tests,
[55:58.640 -> 56:00.720] then fair game.
[56:00.720 -> 56:04.440] We saw that back with the front wing flex
[56:04.440 -> 56:07.200] back in sort of 2009 to 2011.
[56:07.600 -> 56:13.040] And there was a varied route that teams took in order to gain performance in that
[56:13.040 -> 56:19.440] respect. Is that an area of development I think is going on and not really being
[56:19.440 -> 56:20.480] paid attention to?
[56:21.560 -> 56:24.200] Not drastically, I don't think.
[56:24.280 -> 56:28.560] I think there is some margin for teams to be making performance there,
[56:29.040 -> 56:32.360] but I don't think it's something that's a massive story in terms of,
[56:32.360 -> 56:36.920] oh, this team's doing something really, really clever to be able to flex that
[56:36.920 -> 56:39.120] part of the floor to gain performance.
[56:40.240 -> 56:44.400] Having said that, as I've mentioned, getting shots of the underfloor is
[56:44.400 -> 56:47.200] incredibly difficult under these new regulations, and as I've mentioned, getting shots of the underfloor is incredibly difficult under these new regulations.
[56:47.440 -> 56:52.240] And as I've mentioned to you in the past, if and when I make my way into the paddock
[56:52.240 -> 56:56.720] again, throughout the course of this season, I might take a mirror with me to
[56:56.720 -> 57:00.960] take a peek underneath the cars when they're in the show and tell sessions.
[57:01.200 -> 57:03.260] I'd wonder what the teams might say to that.
[57:03.820 -> 57:29.280] Yeah, you need one of those mirrors that they have at the parking garage to check underneath your car when you come in to make sure you're not carrying anything illicit under the frame there. this a little bit. I'm really fascinated right now by two teams that people will be surprised
[57:29.280 -> 57:37.300] by, but both Alpha Tauri and Alpha Romeo are, well, you know, they don't seem to be having
[57:37.300 -> 57:46.520] the best of times, and surprisingly so relative to Williams. So I'm going to ask the question,
[57:46.520 -> 57:50.020] is it Williams doing better, or is it
[57:50.020 -> 57:53.040] them just sort of either dropping the ball
[57:53.040 -> 57:56.360] or being on a very extended, we dipped our toe in
[57:56.360 -> 57:58.320] and it's just going to take us time to catch up
[57:58.320 -> 58:00.880] kind of a scenario?
[58:00.880 -> 58:03.920] I think you have to look at it from a wide angle
[58:03.920 -> 58:05.320] to get a good view of it.
[58:05.320 -> 58:12.840] And I would suggest that we remember that Williams have been at the bottom of the pile in terms of the resource restrictions for a long time now.
[58:12.840 -> 58:28.920] So they have the most to gain for the least output in many ways, because they have so much more resource in terms of CFD and wind tunnel than any of their competitors, which allows them to obviously make performance gains on
[58:28.920 -> 58:30.440] their, on their rivals.
[58:30.800 -> 58:35.440] Um, Alpha Roma, Alpha Romeo are an interesting one in that regard because
[58:35.440 -> 58:39.160] they started last season at the bottom end of the pack and got shuffled quite
[58:39.160 -> 58:43.740] quickly in the mid season reorder, uh, because they've made such a large gain.
[58:43.960 -> 58:47.180] And obviously that's going to have an impact on how you structure your
[58:47.180 -> 58:52.500] development because all of a sudden you've had all the toys in the toy
[58:52.500 -> 58:56.480] factory to play with, but then there's been a delivery and all of a sudden
[58:56.480 -> 58:58.960] they've all gone out to all the toy shops and you've got none left to play
[58:58.960 -> 59:01.680] with, and that's what happened in Ralph Romao's regard.
[59:02.160 -> 59:06.920] In terms of Alpha Tauri, I think they kind of made some mistakes
[59:07.760 -> 59:09.480] in terms of their development.
[59:09.480 -> 59:12.880] And Alpha Romeo and Alpha Tauri
[59:12.880 -> 59:15.880] actually had the two biggest upgrade packages in Australia.
[59:16.760 -> 59:21.320] Alpha Tauri had a new floor in pretty much its entirety,
[59:21.320 -> 59:24.680] new floor strikes, new under floor section
[59:24.680 -> 59:27.340] in the front quarter, new edge section
[59:27.340 -> 59:33.180] and a new diffuser throat section. So I do see that they might have fixed some of their
[59:33.180 -> 59:38.620] issues with that particular upgrade, but it won't pay off until they make other changes
[59:38.620 -> 59:43.940] to that aerodynamic handshake that we've already talked about in future races. And there's,
[59:43.940 -> 59:49.880] you know, they've talked about that themselves. They've basically unlocked level one and now they need to work their
[59:49.880 -> 59:57.000] way up the chain. And it's the same for Alfa Romeo. Interestingly, they went from a shorter
[59:57.000 -> 01:00:08.220] nose, i.e. the nose stops short of the main plane to a longer nose. Whereas Red Bull and Ferrari had that last season and went in the opposite direction.
[01:00:08.440 -> 01:00:14.460] So it just goes to show how teams have these opinions depending on where they are in the
[01:00:14.460 -> 01:00:19.260] development stages, which is quicker when and for what particular purpose.
[01:00:19.580 -> 01:00:24.180] So I think with all three of those teams, they're currently in a situation where you're
[01:00:24.180 -> 01:00:28.400] going to see them perhaps move forward relative to the pack, i.e.
[01:00:28.400 -> 01:00:32.000] they'll move closer to the front end of the pack, but it's at what development
[01:00:32.000 -> 01:00:34.200] rates we see that happen.
[01:00:34.960 -> 01:00:36.600] Uh, well, I don't know.
[01:00:36.600 -> 01:00:38.200] I'm, I'm still curious.
[01:00:38.280 -> 01:00:41.320] I think that it's going back to our break discussion.
[01:00:41.880 -> 01:00:47.940] That when you told me that Williams has the same kind of brakes that Red Bull and Aston
[01:00:47.940 -> 01:00:53.060] do, and therefore one assumes is a similar ish level of control
[01:00:53.060 -> 01:00:57.580] over tire degradation and tire warmup. I just see that as being
[01:00:57.580 -> 01:01:02.140] so vital. And, and I will just bring us briefly back to the
[01:01:02.180 -> 01:01:05.920] restart in Australia, where you had Verstappen
[01:01:05.920 -> 01:01:13.040] behind Hamilton. This is after the lap seven, lap eight restart. And I went and looked at the
[01:01:13.040 -> 01:01:21.840] lap times because everybody was so taken. Everybody was so taken with the pass, the DRS pass, like the
[01:01:21.840 -> 01:01:25.480] difference in speed when Verstappen closed and passed Hamilton.
[01:01:25.480 -> 01:01:31.240] And I remember even at the time looking at the lap times live and being, well, you know,
[01:01:31.240 -> 01:01:38.920] Mercedes tires are cold, Verstappen's tires are hot. It's not a real surprise that he gets that
[01:01:38.920 -> 01:01:44.480] level of traction advantage and would therefore have that kind of closing speed. But it made me
[01:01:44.480 -> 01:01:45.200] go back and look.
[01:01:45.720 -> 01:01:48.520] And sure enough, when I looked at lap times, Verstappen was the
[01:01:48.520 -> 01:01:50.280] first to get into the 22s.
[01:01:51.100 -> 01:01:56.440] His pass on Hamilton was in the 21s, which I think also ate up his battery a bit.
[01:01:56.440 -> 01:01:58.920] So it made it even more impressive.
[01:01:59.760 -> 01:02:04.000] But, um, I think Sainz was second into the 22s and then
[01:02:04.000 -> 01:02:05.680] Hamilton and Russell after that.
[01:02:05.680 -> 01:02:13.800] So am I wrong in thinking that as we go forward, this ability to warm up the tires rapidly,
[01:02:13.800 -> 01:02:18.600] especially if we're going to be seeing more red flags like this and more standing restarts,
[01:02:18.600 -> 01:02:25.520] is going to be a critical performance differentiator that it might not have been so much in the past.
[01:02:26.480 -> 01:02:31.120] Yeah, but I also find it interesting that Red Bull wants to be on the harder tires,
[01:02:31.120 -> 01:02:35.920] if you've noticed as well. So it obviously falls better in their operating range to be on a harder
[01:02:35.920 -> 01:02:43.760] tire. So there's still some latent effects of having the right window for the particular tire
[01:02:43.760 -> 01:02:47.640] that you're on, because obviously the different compounds work differently depending
[01:02:47.640 -> 01:02:49.840] on the temperature range you're in.
[01:02:50.280 -> 01:02:55.560] But yeah, I do feel like I mentioned earlier in the show that this is a
[01:02:55.560 -> 01:02:59.080] major contributor to performance in the opening stage of the season.
[01:02:59.320 -> 01:03:06.400] It is something that other teams will have made note of and will be making their own changes in
[01:03:06.400 -> 01:03:12.360] regard to that particular design philosophy going forward.
[01:03:12.720 -> 01:03:18.480] But as you mentioned, that pass from Max Verstappen on Lewis Hamilton, I'd urge
[01:03:18.480 -> 01:03:22.520] you to go back and watch the Perez pass on Oscar Piastri.
[01:03:23.240 -> 01:03:26.240] It is even more impressive given that Oscar Piastri, it is even more impressive given that Oscar
[01:03:26.240 -> 01:03:31.600] Piastri had the DRS open and Perez went round the outside of him, um,
[01:03:31.920 -> 01:03:38.120] closer to the corner than Hamilton and Verstappen's pass because Piastri
[01:03:38.120 -> 01:03:43.840] was behind somebody else and was in a DRS train, yet Perez was able to
[01:03:43.840 -> 01:03:47.080] overtake somebody that was, that had DRS train, yet Perez was able to overtake somebody that had DRS.
[01:03:47.840 -> 01:03:52.400] Yeah, of course, that just means I want to mention Ocon's pass on Piastri too, but I
[01:03:52.400 -> 01:03:53.200] will forbear.
[01:03:53.440 -> 01:03:54.940] I will forbear for the moment.
[01:03:55.360 -> 01:03:58.320] Um, and I, I actually, you know what I want to ask you about?
[01:03:58.320 -> 01:04:02.400] Cause I don't think we've talked about this really since, um, since the start of the
[01:04:02.400 -> 01:04:06.800] season is, is the driver complaints about having a harder
[01:04:06.800 -> 01:04:13.840] time following. And I know that there were the front slot gap separators that can be
[01:04:13.840 -> 01:04:20.040] set up in an outwash configuration. I know that Mercedes' illegal, illegal connection
[01:04:20.040 -> 01:04:26.360] of the front planes to the front wing end plate has passed muster.
[01:04:26.740 -> 01:04:32.420] Are we getting into some dicey territory in terms of this regulation set?
[01:04:32.520 -> 01:04:39.680] I mean, obviously for DRS zones helps a lot, but are we getting into a range
[01:04:39.680 -> 01:04:47.040] where the FIA is going to have to come in and restrict some things, some more, to keep sort of the
[01:04:47.040 -> 01:04:52.320] entertainingly close racing that we've had, except for the very, very sharp end,
[01:04:53.040 -> 01:04:54.240] over the last two seasons.
[01:04:55.200 -> 01:05:01.440] Well, I would argue that this situation was always going to happen because the Formula
[01:05:01.440 -> 01:05:06.880] One teams have so much more at their disposal than the study that was done in order to
[01:05:06.880 -> 01:05:12.320] create these regulations. So you're always going to get to a point whereby the teams are creating
[01:05:12.320 -> 01:05:19.520] more downforce than was originally intended from this regulation set and we're well beyond that
[01:05:19.520 -> 01:05:27.280] already in my opinion. I think that there wasn't really the expectation that teams would be able to
[01:05:27.280 -> 01:05:30.800] generate as much downforce as they have. Obviously...
[01:05:30.800 -> 01:05:36.160] When have they ever not generated more downforce than was expected?
[01:05:36.160 -> 01:05:38.240] This is my immediate question here.
[01:05:38.240 -> 01:05:48.800] Exactly. And I think that the regulations did go particularly a long way to try to resolve the wake turbulence
[01:05:48.800 -> 01:05:55.360] issue. However, some of the changes that have been made for 2023 are retrograde in that respect,
[01:05:55.360 -> 01:06:00.160] because as you mentioned, the FIA weren't strong enough to deal with the situation with the
[01:06:00.160 -> 01:06:05.080] outwash slot gap separators. They've effectively changed the regulations to allow them
[01:06:05.080 -> 01:06:09.560] because they couldn't find a way to illegalize them
[01:06:10.400 -> 01:06:12.240] from a wording point of view.
[01:06:13.680 -> 01:06:17.560] The solution that Mercedes ran last season has reappeared.
[01:06:17.560 -> 01:06:20.560] And in fact, is probably stronger than it was last year.
[01:06:20.560 -> 01:06:22.880] And other teams are running similar solutions
[01:06:22.880 -> 01:06:24.280] to create outwash there.
[01:06:29.480 -> 01:06:35.180] And obviously we've got the situation where the floor is now in a different configuration to as the regulations were tested by the study, uh, because we've
[01:06:35.180 -> 01:06:39.500] obviously had to make changes to, to deal with the porpoising and bouncing issues.
[01:06:39.660 -> 01:06:44.520] And on top of that, there's changes to the floor edge, which the teams are still
[01:06:44.520 -> 01:06:45.080] pushing to find performance in and will throughout the course of the season. top of that, there's changes to the floor edge, which the teams are still pushing
[01:06:45.120 -> 01:06:48.000] to find performance in and will throughout the course of the season.
[01:06:48.240 -> 01:06:52.280] And the weight turbulence is only going to increase because of those factors.
[01:06:52.560 -> 01:06:56.120] And the more downfalls that the teams keep piling on, the worse that the
[01:06:56.120 -> 01:06:57.800] weight turbulence is going to become.
[01:06:58.000 -> 01:07:01.960] And the more reliance we will have on DRS, unfortunately.
[01:07:02.240 -> 01:07:04.880] But as I've mentioned before, there is other ways to deal
[01:07:04.880 -> 01:07:07.080] with the deployment of DRS, unfortunately, but as I've mentioned before, there is other ways to deal with the deployment of DRS.
[01:07:07.300 -> 01:07:10.960] It's just that the FIA have decided that they're going to continue to use
[01:07:10.960 -> 01:07:12.680] it in a way that they always have done.
[01:07:13.040 -> 01:07:16.640] It's not to say it's the right way, but there are ways to improve the
[01:07:16.640 -> 01:07:21.380] racing with DRS in my opinion, from a strategic point of view, if they want
[01:07:21.380 -> 01:07:24.600] to obviously improve the overall racing.
[01:07:24.700 -> 01:07:25.300] you if they want to obviously improve the overall racing.
[01:07:31.100 -> 01:07:31.700] Yeah, I think we're having multiple conversations on multiple fronts about this.
[01:07:36.900 -> 01:07:42.100] Before we go away from the outwash topic, though, I want to ask, because this is my personal understanding now, and I am not entirely an expert in
[01:07:42.100 -> 01:07:47.280] this, but if I'm understanding why teams want to create outwash,
[01:07:48.240 -> 01:07:56.960] it's essentially connected to the fact that the rotating unprotected wheels are a major source
[01:07:56.960 -> 01:08:09.360] of drag. Therefore, any air that I can't force under the car to use as downforce, I would rather send wide off both the front
[01:08:09.360 -> 01:08:14.640] and especially again when you're talking about the floor fences, the rear tire. The more air
[01:08:14.640 -> 01:08:21.680] I send sideways away from those tires, the less drag those rotating wheels create, therefore,
[01:08:21.680 -> 01:08:25.300] the better for my overall car's efficiency. Is that kind of it?
[01:08:25.800 -> 01:08:30.200] Yeah, I mean, obviously the the worst case scenario is ingesting
[01:08:30.200 -> 01:08:34.400] the turbulence that's been created ahead on into the side of the
[01:08:34.400 -> 01:08:38.800] floor because you're going to rob the the the diffuser of additional
[01:08:38.800 -> 01:08:42.400] performance is why we talked about tire squirts in the past where
[01:08:42.400 -> 01:08:45.360] basically the rotation of the rear wheels
[01:08:45.360 -> 01:08:50.500] and their deformation laterally pushes airflow into the diffuser. Now obviously the diffusers
[01:08:50.500 -> 01:08:57.540] are much larger with the current setup and the Venturi tunnels, so that effect is lessened,
[01:08:57.540 -> 01:09:02.160] but if you think about airflow being pushed in laterally, you're effectively reducing
[01:09:02.160 -> 01:09:09.080] the volume that the diffuser can operate at. If you then push that away you're increasing the volume at which it
[01:09:09.080 -> 01:09:16.280] becomes more potent. So yeah, the teams want to create outwash. They didn't do it
[01:09:16.280 -> 01:09:19.760] for no reason under the guise of the old regulations and they'll do everything
[01:09:19.760 -> 01:09:23.960] possible to regain it for this set of regulations which is what we're already
[01:09:23.960 -> 01:09:29.080] seeing. But obviously they are limited by the regulations in terms of what they
[01:09:29.080 -> 01:09:34.600] can actually do. Now the FIA have either got a look at re-wording the regulations
[01:09:34.600 -> 01:09:40.840] going forward to re-harness some of the conditions that we saw in 2022 or they've
[01:09:40.840 -> 01:09:44.160] got to be accepting of the fact that there's a limit at which they can't step
[01:09:44.160 -> 01:09:46.460] beyond and it becomes a problem.
[01:09:46.460 -> 01:09:52.740] Now I think we may have already passed the horizon in terms of dealing with the problem.
[01:09:52.740 -> 01:09:57.400] And I think we might just end up in a situation where we end up with a complete redesign in
[01:09:57.400 -> 01:10:00.280] a couple of years time to try and re-combat the problem.
[01:10:00.280 -> 01:10:01.280] Yeah.
[01:10:01.280 -> 01:10:07.040] I mean, it is always sort of entertaining to watch the FIA play whack-a-mole with teams
[01:10:07.040 -> 01:10:12.160] being clever, but it seems like too many teams are being too clever, too fast for them to
[01:10:12.160 -> 01:10:14.720] keep all the way up.
[01:10:14.720 -> 01:10:22.000] And this brings me to your dig at the FIA, never wanting to try new things.
[01:10:22.000 -> 01:10:25.760] And I'm going to connect it to your earlier comment about big update packages
[01:10:25.760 -> 01:10:32.160] showing up at MLA, because I'll be honest, if I was in charge of a team, based on what I know now,
[01:10:32.160 -> 01:10:37.920] it is the last place I would bring any kind of an update because we're going to see a change
[01:10:38.560 -> 01:10:46.560] to qualifying and tire use at MLA. And to make it more fun, they're bringing the absolute softest tires they can.
[01:10:48.000 -> 01:10:53.920] Yes, I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not digging at the FIA, I'm suggesting that there are other
[01:10:53.920 -> 01:11:00.560] ways to do things and unfortunately, historically, they've always been late in reacting to situations
[01:11:00.560 -> 01:11:09.580] and making changes that might be better for the sport. Now, as you say, Imola is probably not the best place to introduce an upgrade
[01:11:09.580 -> 01:11:11.880] because of the changing circumstances.
[01:11:11.880 -> 01:11:16.800] However, if you are a McLaren of this world and you were already exceptionally
[01:11:16.800 -> 01:11:22.600] off the pace compared to where you want to be, then surely you would add an
[01:11:22.600 -> 01:11:26.560] upgrade or an update, as I prefer to call them,
[01:11:26.560 -> 01:11:29.540] because sometimes an update is not an upgrade
[01:11:29.540 -> 01:11:33.240] if it fails miserably.
[01:11:34.760 -> 01:11:38.340] You know, just get it on the car as quickly as you can.
[01:11:38.340 -> 01:11:41.500] It's why I fail to see why Ferrari do things
[01:11:41.500 -> 01:11:42.840] the way they do on occasions,
[01:11:42.840 -> 01:11:44.620] because they'll bring one part,
[01:11:44.620 -> 01:11:51.840] they'll have both drivers test it in free practice sessions to get their feedback, and then they won't
[01:11:51.840 -> 01:11:53.660] race that part.
[01:11:53.660 -> 01:11:58.280] Even though it's quicker, they won't say, oh, this driver can have that part.
[01:11:58.280 -> 01:12:06.880] Whereas other teams will naturally side with one driver and apply an upgrade, an update ahead of schedule if
[01:12:06.880 -> 01:12:14.280] they don't have multiple versions of that part. So going back to the factor of
[01:12:14.280 -> 01:12:19.480] bringing upgrades or updates, I would put it on the car as quickly as I possibly
[01:12:19.480 -> 01:12:29.040] could. However, Spain is usually where we would see updates. However, it is later in the calendar this year, because again, we have a longer
[01:12:29.040 -> 01:12:31.400] calendar than we really need.
[01:12:31.680 -> 01:12:36.800] And so, everything has to shuffle down the development pack and then that's
[01:12:36.800 -> 01:12:39.440] impacted by the cost cap, the resource restrictions.
[01:12:39.800 -> 01:12:44.120] So there's a multitude of reasons why we're starting to see teams bring things
[01:12:44.120 -> 01:12:47.900] at certain races rather than the traditional spot in Spain.
[01:12:48.260 -> 01:12:53.260] And Imola obviously being a European race means there's less transporting costs and
[01:12:53.260 -> 01:12:59.380] less in terms of having the part ready to ship it out or air freight it or put it on
[01:12:59.380 -> 01:13:03.580] the boat as they would have to do.
[01:13:03.860 -> 01:13:07.840] You've got a shorter lead time between getting it from the base
[01:13:07.880 -> 01:13:09.760] in Europe to a European race.
[01:13:10.480 -> 01:13:11.600] Yeah, no, I get that.
[01:13:11.600 -> 01:13:14.880] I was mostly making a joke about the fact that we'll have a brand new
[01:13:14.880 -> 01:13:17.080] qualifying procedure in Imola.
[01:13:17.720 -> 01:13:21.920] And because someone asked me about it on the Internet, I've actually gone
[01:13:21.920 -> 01:13:25.460] and looked at it. So what is your opinion and
[01:13:25.460 -> 01:13:29.560] I will just describe in brief for people before you give me an answer.
[01:13:29.560 -> 01:13:35.400] Essentially instead of having free tire choice in qualifying you're going to be
[01:13:35.400 -> 01:13:39.360] required to make your runs in the first qualifying session on the hard tire.
[01:13:39.360 -> 01:13:49.200] You're going to be required and I looked me, because I saw it as a loophole, immediately to make your runs in the second qualifying on the medium tire.
[01:13:50.400 -> 01:13:54.800] And in the third qualifying session, should you be fortunate enough to be there,
[01:13:54.800 -> 01:13:59.200] you will be required to make both of your runs on the soft tire.
[01:13:59.200 -> 01:14:05.200] And what I think a lot of the outlets have missed about this is due to the fact that you have two
[01:14:05.200 -> 01:14:13.360] less tire sets to begin with, teams will be able to essentially take a single set of fresh
[01:14:13.360 -> 01:14:19.480] tires to the start of the race, unless they get knocked out in the first or second qualifying
[01:14:19.480 -> 01:14:20.880] session.
[01:14:20.880 -> 01:14:24.620] And that's quite different to what they're used to.
[01:14:24.620 -> 01:14:25.000] Very much so.
[01:14:25.000 -> 01:14:25.200] Yeah.
[01:14:25.200 -> 01:14:28.300] And it's obviously going to have an impact on strategy.
[01:14:28.300 -> 01:14:35.900] Look, I'm hopeful that changes or certain changes to formats can
[01:14:35.900 -> 01:14:36.900] become effective.
[01:14:36.900 -> 01:14:39.200] You know, I'm not a massive fan of the sprint.
[01:14:39.200 -> 01:14:41.800] Unfortunately, we stuck with the sprint.
[01:14:41.800 -> 01:14:42.500] It's not going away.
[01:14:42.500 -> 01:14:44.000] We've actually got more this season.
[01:14:44.000 -> 01:14:49.360] But from a qualifying perspective, I do think there are merits in looking at the way in
[01:14:49.360 -> 01:14:55.720] which the format is run in order to improve the way in which the lower end teams are able
[01:14:55.720 -> 01:14:59.280] to make it through the various qualifying stages.
[01:14:59.280 -> 01:15:06.760] One of those routes is to change the perspective of the teams in terms of the tires that
[01:15:06.760 -> 01:15:10.240] they're operating on, which as you mentioned, the hard tire, the medium
[01:15:10.240 -> 01:15:13.160] tire, the soft tire, depending on which qualifying session you're in.
[01:15:14.640 -> 01:15:18.200] And as I've already mentioned earlier on, there are teams that are better
[01:15:18.280 -> 01:15:22.640] with certain tires than others in terms of both warmup and performance.
[01:15:22.800 -> 01:15:26.960] And so that will probably bear out in terms of both warmup and performance. And so that will probably bear out in terms of qualifying.
[01:15:27.120 -> 01:15:30.120] We could actually see it hinder the likes of Red Bull.
[01:15:30.160 -> 01:15:34.680] As I mentioned, they are slightly worse off in terms of their soft tire running,
[01:15:35.280 -> 01:15:38.640] but not to the point where I don't think they'll qualify on pole position.
[01:15:39.760 -> 01:15:42.560] But yeah, an interesting way of changing things up.
[01:15:42.840 -> 01:15:43.880] Let's see if it works.
[01:15:44.600 -> 01:15:44.840] Yeah.
[01:15:40.240 -> 01:15:40.300] Yeah.
[01:15:42.580 -> 01:15:42.820] An interesting way of changing things up.
[01:15:43.900 -> 01:15:44.580] Let's see if it works.
[01:15:44.860 -> 01:15:44.900] Yeah.
[01:15:51.340 -> 01:15:53.040] Well, here's what I like about it is that if the worse you do, the more fresh tires you have for the race.
[01:15:53.480 -> 01:15:58.040] And with this formula, even with the outwash being more of an
[01:15:58.040 -> 01:15:59.560] issue than it was last season.
[01:16:00.280 -> 01:16:09.220] It's clear that qualifying and position at most tracks really doesn't matter as much.
[01:16:09.220 -> 01:16:15.700] So teams that are on the bubble with fresher tires could maybe do some interesting things,
[01:16:15.700 -> 01:16:19.580] which we almost saw in Australia if it weren't for all those red flags.
[01:16:19.580 -> 01:16:27.920] Like I just like, I'm devastated to see that Russell's and Ocon's and Sainz's strategy just got flattened by those red flags.
[01:16:28.520 -> 01:16:28.720] Yeah.
[01:16:28.720 -> 01:16:32.000] I mean, that's always an unfortunate situation, isn't it?
[01:16:32.000 -> 01:16:37.440] Where you're the race is, is almost decided upon, uh, by external factors.
[01:16:37.840 -> 01:16:41.560] Um, to be perfectly honest, I had to watch the race back cause I was in a bit
[01:16:41.560 -> 01:16:46.720] of a fever dream where I don't think I actually caught most of the race because of the early timing of it.
[01:16:47.020 -> 01:16:52.000] And obviously working some of the hours that you do around the events, but
[01:16:52.260 -> 01:16:54.160] I wouldn't know anything about that over here.
[01:16:54.200 -> 01:16:55.920] No, you wouldn't know anything about that, Matt.
[01:16:56.020 -> 01:17:00.640] So I would imagine that most of the races look very similar to that
[01:17:00.640 -> 01:17:02.560] for you as they did for me.
[01:17:03.400 -> 01:17:08.200] Yeah, no, it's a, um, it's a very late night, early morning thing.
[01:17:08.200 -> 01:17:12.100] Those the Pacific races for us here in the US.
[01:17:13.600 -> 01:17:18.600] Now, there are two teams that are I think kind of intriguing
[01:17:18.600 -> 01:17:21.100] that have not gotten a whole bunch of mention.
[01:17:21.100 -> 01:17:22.400] One of them is Haas.
[01:17:23.200 -> 01:17:26.880] And the other is Alpine. Now Alpine, I think
[01:17:26.880 -> 01:17:31.320] I've sort of already set up and I waited this long just so people wouldn't accuse
[01:17:31.320 -> 01:17:37.280] me of being like overly enthusiastic about them. But they intrigue me because
[01:17:37.280 -> 01:17:48.640] I see a progression in their performance in lap times and relative to the other cars that seems fairly large and I think could be put down
[01:17:48.640 -> 01:17:56.080] to a lot of simply beginning to understand the new design for their rear end. Haas is also
[01:17:56.080 -> 01:18:05.680] intriguing because I have never seen them able to manage their tires at least since they joined the sport as well as they have in Australia.
[01:18:06.000 -> 01:18:10.860] So are, are these kind of like some sleeper teams to be paying attention to,
[01:18:10.860 -> 01:18:14.940] or was this really kind of more of a one-off very circuit specific
[01:18:14.940 -> 01:18:16.260] performance for those two?
[01:18:16.900 -> 01:18:17.040] Yeah.
[01:18:17.040 -> 01:18:21.300] I mean, you always have to take, uh, uh, Albert Park as a bit of an outlier
[01:18:21.340 -> 01:18:25.920] because it is in many respects, especially with that four zone DRS.
[01:18:25.920 -> 01:18:32.440] That very much puts it out on the outside of what we normally see.
[01:18:33.200 -> 01:18:37.240] Again, I think tyre relationship is very critical here.
[01:18:37.240 -> 01:18:40.340] As you mentioned with Haas, they were good in Australia.
[01:18:40.600 -> 01:18:43.040] Perhaps they can learn from that experience.
[01:18:43.000 -> 01:18:52.000] perhaps they can learn from that experience. They also were very much up there in terms of the DRS offset relative to the rest of the field.
[01:18:52.000 -> 01:18:57.000] I think they were the second highest in the speed traps with DRS deployed
[01:18:57.000 -> 01:19:01.000] and they were actually very efficient in a straight line as well.
[01:19:01.000 -> 01:19:04.000] But that's obviously just down to the way that they're running their car
[01:19:04.000 -> 01:19:06.240] and then obviously they're sacrificing things
[01:19:06.240 -> 01:19:08.320] because they don't have the downforce that others do.
[01:19:08.880 -> 01:19:14.240] Alpine, again, flattered to deceive in many respects haven't they,
[01:19:14.240 -> 01:19:15.880] throughout the course of this season.
[01:19:16.200 -> 01:19:20.340] I was really interested to see how they'd get on given the development
[01:19:20.340 -> 01:19:24.600] that they had throughout the course of 2022, where they basically had an
[01:19:25.440 -> 01:19:30.440] update at pretty much every single race, came into the season with a whole new rear end.
[01:19:30.760 -> 01:19:36.200] As you mentioned that they've switched their rear suspension setup.
[01:19:36.520 -> 01:19:41.720] They've added some, or they've changed around their rear cooling around the power
[01:19:41.720 -> 01:19:45.160] unit, and that's obviously freed up some additional space elsewhere.
[01:19:45.560 -> 01:19:49.920] So I was really keen to see how they'd get on, but we do have to remember that I
[01:19:49.920 -> 01:19:55.280] have a new driver amongst all of this as well, who's having to learn all of the
[01:19:55.280 -> 01:19:58.240] protocols that go with racing with another team.
[01:19:58.640 -> 01:20:01.880] So I do see that they'll make progress.
[01:20:01.880 -> 01:20:05.240] It's just that perhaps they haven't made the progress that they expected to make.
[01:20:05.520 -> 01:20:09.800] But then when you've got somebody like Aston Martin who've leaped as far as
[01:20:09.800 -> 01:20:14.280] they have, it all becomes a bit of a mess behind because, you know, they were
[01:20:14.280 -> 01:20:21.120] the team that, you know, there was McLaren, Aston, Alpine, similar scenarios
[01:20:21.120 -> 01:20:23.880] depending on circuit specificity last season.
[01:20:24.120 -> 01:20:27.320] And now all of a sudden Aston aren't around there, they're much further forward.
[01:20:27.320 -> 01:20:31.720] So, you know, I think we'll see a better result for them going forward.
[01:20:31.960 -> 01:20:35.120] Um, and once they've started to understand the car a little better and
[01:20:35.120 -> 01:20:36.800] how to get the best from the tires.
[01:20:37.760 -> 01:20:38.000] Yeah.
[01:20:38.000 -> 01:20:44.480] Well, it was intriguing to me watching Gasly keeping up with the Ferraris, granted
[01:20:47.920 -> 01:20:56.320] watching Gasly keeping up with the Ferraris, granted in DRS. But what was even more intriguing to me is watching Alkan once he was ahead of Piastri and out of Perez DRS, setting very similar
[01:20:56.320 -> 01:21:07.640] lap times to Gasly. I mean, Alpine were really kind of very close to being on pace with both Ferrari and Mercedes at Albert Park.
[01:21:07.640 -> 01:21:14.320] And in fact, I mean, if you consider him essentially demoted to 15th place because of the red flag,
[01:21:15.000 -> 01:21:18.040] he was already, he was back in the points and
[01:21:18.840 -> 01:21:28.780] chasing, and chasing Norris, not, I don't think, catching him, but chasing Norris for a ninth place, which is, that's, that's a pretty remarkable thing for
[01:21:28.780 -> 01:21:30.740] a midfield car to be able to do.
[01:21:31.620 -> 01:21:31.900] Yeah.
[01:21:31.900 -> 01:21:33.960] Like I said, there's, there's plenty of potential there.
[01:21:33.960 -> 01:21:38.180] It's just trying to unlock that performance and getting the best out of it over the
[01:21:38.180 -> 01:21:40.060] course of both qualifying and the race.
[01:21:41.740 -> 01:21:42.140] All right.
[01:21:42.140 -> 01:21:46.120] So I think, you know, we're, we're kind of getting into the, we're going to have to
[01:21:46.120 -> 01:21:52.520] wrap this up, despite the fact we could probably keep on going for another metric hour or two.
[01:21:52.520 -> 01:21:55.840] I did want to ask two more questions, though.
[01:21:55.840 -> 01:22:02.860] The first is, we've just seen some information from everybody's favorite automotor sport
[01:22:02.860 -> 01:22:07.600] that the failure for Hulkenberg was an MG UK.
[01:22:08.480 -> 01:22:15.960] Are we back to Ferrari's power unit not being as reliable as they swore it would
[01:22:15.960 -> 01:22:18.640] be when we all thought they were going to win this year's championship?
[01:22:19.500 -> 01:22:22.080] Well, again, it could be another outlier, couldn't it?
[01:22:22.080 -> 01:22:23.480] It could just be a failure.
[01:22:23.600 -> 01:22:30.600] Uh, it could have been down to running in certain modes, it could be down to debris, there's a whole host
[01:22:30.600 -> 01:22:35.860] of reasons as to why we've had a failure on the MG UK.
[01:22:35.860 -> 01:22:48.240] It is difficult to swallow that Ferrari have made another step backwards, if they indeed have with their power unit,
[01:22:48.240 -> 01:22:53.640] because it will not only have an impact on Ferrari themselves as a works team,
[01:22:53.640 -> 01:22:58.160] but also their suppliers, which obviously it has in Haas's case this time around.
[01:22:58.160 -> 01:23:02.400] Two MG UKs, if I remember rightly, for the season.
[01:23:02.400 -> 01:23:07.240] So, you know, that puts Hulkenberg in a position where he's going to end up
[01:23:07.240 -> 01:23:13.520] taking a penalty at some point, because he's not going to use just a solo MG UK.
[01:23:13.920 -> 01:23:16.960] Although having said that, it could be something that could be repaired.
[01:23:17.440 -> 01:23:21.400] There's no, I don't believe there's any notification so far that it's
[01:23:21.400 -> 01:23:23.720] something that failed that can't be repaired.
[01:23:23.720 -> 01:23:27.540] So it might go back into the allocation if it can be repaired
[01:23:27.540 -> 01:23:28.880] once it gets back to Ferrari.
[01:23:29.260 -> 01:23:31.160] Uh, we'll have to wait and find out on that one.
[01:23:32.080 -> 01:23:32.320] Yeah.
[01:23:32.360 -> 01:23:36.540] And then the last question, and this is the one that I've sort of tagged in my
[01:23:36.540 -> 01:23:38.860] notes is the silver lining question.
[01:23:39.680 -> 01:23:46.200] As we have talked extensively about how much better Red Bull has done with this
[01:23:46.200 -> 01:23:52.660] regulation set than anyone else and it's not arguable. They have the best car but
[01:23:52.660 -> 01:23:58.720] having the best car and having it be dominant in the way that it appears so
[01:23:58.720 -> 01:24:07.360] far are kind of two different things. So I'm going to ask you now, we've heard driveshaft, gearbox, shifting problems.
[01:24:08.240 -> 01:24:17.360] Is this Red Bull fragile enough for it not to be as dominant as they appear right now in the early
[01:24:17.360 -> 01:24:24.400] part of the season? Or is this just window dressing from Milton Keynes to make us all feel
[01:24:24.400 -> 01:24:25.480] better about the only
[01:24:25.480 -> 01:24:29.720] entertainment we're going to have is if Perez manages to get ahead of Verstappen, who for
[01:24:29.720 -> 01:24:36.260] some reason had a five grid spot penalty, maybe for a new gearbox, you never know.
[01:24:36.260 -> 01:24:42.160] And then the question is, will Max catch him or not before Perez wins the race?
[01:24:42.160 -> 01:24:48.360] I think that if you look at the winningest cars in Formula One's history,
[01:24:48.360 -> 01:24:55.080] there's two cars that really stand out at the top. You've got the MP44, won 18 of its 19 races,
[01:24:55.080 -> 01:25:12.200] and the W05 of Mercedes won, I think it was 16 of 18 races. And of those two have won the most, the McLaren was down to an issue of a
[01:25:12.200 -> 01:25:15.960] failure and so was Mercedes.
[01:25:16.320 -> 01:25:19.320] And I think that will be the situation with Red Bull.
[01:25:19.520 -> 01:25:22.760] I don't know if they're going to make the full 100%.
[01:25:25.000 -> 01:25:25.560] Circumstances might dictate at certain point in the season that they might take I don't know if they're going to make the full 100%.
[01:25:28.600 -> 01:25:29.920] Circumstances might dictate at certain point in the season that they might take enough penalties
[01:25:29.920 -> 01:25:31.800] to put them out of the picture anyway,
[01:25:31.800 -> 01:25:34.360] if they have to start taking power unit components.
[01:25:36.040 -> 01:25:39.440] I'm not sure that the drive shaft issue
[01:25:39.440 -> 01:25:43.960] is as big as perhaps it looked in Jeddah.
[01:25:43.960 -> 01:25:50.240] And if you recall on many occasions last season, Max talked about
[01:25:50.480 -> 01:25:53.400] mis-shifts with his gearbox as well.
[01:25:53.640 -> 01:25:58.440] So again, I think that might be more down to the fact that this is an
[01:25:58.760 -> 01:26:03.960] inherent way in which that Max relays information to the team.
[01:26:07.440 -> 01:26:07.560] in which that Max relays information to the team and I don't see them having
[01:26:11.760 -> 01:26:13.960] major issues in as much as that they're going to win the title at a canter, unfortunately.
[01:26:14.480 -> 01:26:16.760] But that's just the way it is.
[01:26:16.760 -> 01:26:19.440] They have done a very, very, very good job.
[01:26:20.200 -> 01:26:27.120] I will caveat that with, they also received a penalty for doing that very, very good job
[01:26:27.120 -> 01:26:31.480] because they did it by breaking one of the regulations.
[01:26:31.480 -> 01:26:36.420] So now they are suffering the consequences of that because they have less resource at
[01:26:36.420 -> 01:26:37.420] their disposal.
[01:26:37.420 -> 01:26:48.820] But was the penalty enough to match the crime because I'm still not convinced that it will be enough to overwhelm
[01:26:48.820 -> 01:26:53.160] their development in comparison to the rest of the field.
[01:26:53.160 -> 01:27:01.280] And this is always the problem when you change things by regulation in trying to reorder
[01:27:01.280 -> 01:27:05.840] a situation that has arisen from somebody being outside
[01:27:05.840 -> 01:27:07.160] the scope of the regulations.
[01:27:07.160 -> 01:27:09.760] So it's an interesting one.
[01:27:09.760 -> 01:27:13.560] We'll see how the rest of the teams catch up, but for me, I just
[01:27:13.560 -> 01:27:18.120] see Red Bull having a very good run into the end of the season.
[01:27:19.080 -> 01:27:22.880] Well, on that note of utter gloom, I think we have sort of come to
[01:27:22.880 -> 01:27:29.040] the end of our discussion here, but before we go, where can we look for you on social media and on the
[01:27:29.040 -> 01:27:29.480] internet?
[01:27:30.040 -> 01:27:37.160] Okay, so obviously on Twitter, probably be unverified very shortly in on that
[01:27:37.160 -> 01:27:43.560] platform, but as it stands, I still hold my blue tick, which is Summers F1. And
[01:27:43.560 -> 01:27:52.000] obviously, you can find my stuff over on Autosport and Motorsport in terms of the technical content that we put out there.
[01:27:52.000 -> 01:27:56.000] Go read them all. You will learn many useful and fun things.
[01:27:56.000 -> 01:28:02.000] And as for me, I'm at MattPT55 on the Twitters, at least until Twitter goes down in a heap of flames.
[01:28:02.000 -> 01:28:41.940] And until next time, this has been Mist Apex Podcast. This season, prepare for every season with the Allbirds Mizzle Collection. These shoes
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