Podcast: Missed Apex
Published Date:
Sun, 05 Feb 2023 19:16:42 GMT
Duration:
1:26:55
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Trumpets flies the shed solo as he is joined by Matthew Somerfield, technical editor at Motorsport.Com for some pre-season tech and then engineer extraordinaire Kyle ‘Edgy’ Power hops on for some more forbidden F1 fruit. From sidepod silhouettes to storied suspensions, from ride height wrangling to new rules roundup, no decimal point gets dropped in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast.
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Matt Trumpets mattpt55 (@mattpt55)
Matt Trumpets (@mattpt55@mastodon.social)
Matthew Somerfield: https://twitter.com/SomersF1
Tech Time with Matthew Somerfield | Missed Apex Podcast
Matt Somerfield | Motorsport.com Author
Kyle Power Kyle Power (@KylePowerF1) / Twitter
Williams active suspension video 1993 - YouTube
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**Transcript:**
- **Host:** Matt Trumpets
- **Guests:** Matthew Somerfield (Technical Editor at Motorsport.com) and Kyle Power (Engineer)
**Key Points:**
* **Side Pods:**
* Ferrari and Haas have in-wash side pod concepts, while Red Bull, Alpha Tauri, Alpine, Williams, and Aston Martin have downwash concepts.
* The main difference is that in-wash concepts create downwash towards the rear of the floor, while downwash concepts create downwash to the rear of the side pod.
* This difference is mainly due to the shape of the side pod profile.
* Other teams are likely to gravitate towards the Red Bull concept because it is a bit more benign from an aerodynamic perspective.
* **Mercedes Concept:**
* Mercedes' side pod concept is very different from the other teams, with a large expanse of unprotected floor.
* Mercedes tried to continue down the route they used in the previous regulation set, but the other teams moved in a different direction.
* Mercedes' problems were not related to the design of the side pods but to an exterior force involving the floor.
* Mercedes may have found things that other teams will stumble across and cannot fix as quickly.
* **Updates:**
* In the first season of the new regulations, there were two schools of thought on updates: big packages a few times a season or smaller updates more regularly.
* Alpine had the right approach by bringing little but often, as it allowed them to optimize on a smaller basis and bring updates that had more meaning at certain types of tracks.
* As teams mature in their understanding of the regulations and work their way through the cost cap, we will start to see trade-offs in terms of updates.
* **New Rules:**
* The raising of the floor edge and diffuser throat, and the restrictions on the plank, were not as big a deal as many thought.
* The teams will find a way to make it work and will still be looking at a similar sort of performance as to what we had last year.
* The new rules will likely hurt the midfield and back-end runners more than the top teams, but they have more resources to overcome the problems.
* The FIA has done something interesting to help the drivers in wheel-to-wheel battles this season by increasing the size of the wing mirrors.
* Pirelli is also bringing new tires for this year that should produce less understeer.
* Hopefully, we can have a period of calm where we don't change too much, which should also help to keep the teams closing in on one another.
* **Power Unit Regulations:**
* The FIA might consider a similar scale for power unit manufacturers when we move on to the next set of power unit regulations, given the success of the scale on the aerodynamic side. **Summary of the Missed Apex Podcast Episode: Forbidden F1 Fruit - Active Suspension**
* **Introduction:**
* The podcast episode features Matt Trumpets, Matthew Somerfield (technical editor at Motorsport.com), and Kyle Power (engineer) discussing the history and technical aspects of active suspension in Formula One.
* **Historical Context:**
* Active suspension was first introduced in Formula One by Lotus in the early 1980s, driven by the need to address porpoising and bouncing issues caused by the massive aerodynamic forces generated by ground effect cars.
* Lotus collaborated with various partners, including General Motors, to develop and refine the technology.
* **Technical Details:**
* Active suspension systems utilized sensors to monitor the car's ride height and adjust the suspension accordingly, providing improved stability and handling.
* The Lotus system, known as the Type 88, employed hydraulic actuators to control the suspension, allowing for precise adjustments in real time.
* **Advantages and Disadvantages:**
* Active suspension offered significant advantages in terms of optimizing aerodynamic performance and improving tire grip, resulting in faster lap times.
* However, the technology was complex and expensive, requiring specialized knowledge and expertise to operate and maintain.
* **Lotus's Dominance:**
* Lotus's active suspension system proved to be highly effective, giving the team a significant advantage over its rivals.
* Drivers such as Nigel Mansell and Elio de Angelis achieved notable successes with the Lotus cars, securing race wins and podium finishes.
* **Banning Active Suspension:**
* Concerns about the escalating costs and the potential safety implications of active suspension led to its ban by the FIA in 1994.
* The ban aimed to level the playing field and prevent a single team from dominating the sport due to superior technology.
* **Legacy and Impact:**
* Active suspension remains a topic of fascination and debate among Formula One enthusiasts, with some advocating for its return due to its potential performance benefits.
* The technology has influenced the development of modern Formula One cars, with teams continuously seeking innovative solutions to optimize aerodynamic performance and handling.
* **Current Developments:**
* There have been discussions within Formula One circles about potentially reintroducing active suspension in the future.
* However, the FIA remains cautious about the potential costs and safety implications, and any such move would require careful consideration and consensus among the teams.
**Conclusion:**
Active suspension represents a significant chapter in Formula One history, showcasing the sport's relentless pursuit of technological innovation. While its use was ultimately banned due to concerns about costs and safety, the legacy of active suspension continues to inspire engineers and designers seeking to push the boundaries of Formula One performance. ## Active Suspension in Formula One: A Technological Journey
### Introduction:
The podcast episode delves into the fascinating history of active suspension systems in Formula One, shedding light on their evolution, controversies, and impact on the sport. The discussion centers around three key eras: the early attempts by Lotus in the 1980s, Williams' innovative approach in the late 1980s and early 1990s, and the re-emergence of active suspension systems in the modern era.
### Lotus: Pioneering Active Suspension:
In the early 1980s, Team Lotus, led by visionary designer Colin Chapman, embarked on a groundbreaking project to develop an active suspension system for their Formula One cars. The goal was to revolutionize ride height control, tire wear management, and driver comfort. The system, known as the Type 88, was highly complex and ambitious, employing hydraulics to replace traditional springs and dampers.
Despite initial promise and a few race victories, the Type 88 faced numerous challenges. The technology was complex and prone to failures, adding weight to the car and draining engine power. Additionally, driver Nigel Mansell was a vocal critic of the system, citing its unreliability and lack of feel. The project was eventually shelved due to financial constraints and the loss of Chapman's leadership.
### Williams: Refining the Concept:
In the late 1980s, Williams took a different approach to active suspension, focusing on optimizing aerodynamic performance rather than ride comfort. Their system, developed in collaboration with automotive products, was simpler and more reliable than Lotus's Type 88. It utilized hydraulic actuators to control ride height, allowing the team to fine-tune the car's aerodynamics for specific track conditions.
Williams' active suspension system proved to be highly effective, helping the team achieve significant success in the 1987 season. However, reliability issues and a major problem with the oil reservoir in 1988 led to the system's temporary abandonment. It was briefly revived in 1991 before being phased out due to the increasing complexity and cost of the technology.
### Modern Era: A Brief Resurgence:
In the late 1990s and early 2000s, there was a brief resurgence of interest in active suspension systems. Teams such as McLaren and Ferrari experimented with various designs, aiming to improve traction control and overall car stability. However, these systems were ultimately banned due to concerns about safety and the potential for unfair advantages.
### Conclusion:
The pursuit of active suspension systems in Formula One has been marked by innovation, controversy, and technological advancements. While the systems have shown promise in enhancing performance and handling, they have also faced challenges related to complexity, reliability, and cost. The ban on active suspension systems in modern Formula One highlights the sport's focus on maintaining a level playing field and preserving the driver's role in controlling the car. ## Summary of the Podcast Episode Transcript: "Missed Apex Podcast: Pre-Season Tech Talk with Matthew Somerfield and Engineer Kyle 'Edgy' Power"
### Introduction:
- The podcast episode features Matt Trumpets, Matthew Somerfield (technical editor at Motorsport.Com), and Kyle Power (engineer) discussing pre-season Formula One (F1) technology and innovations.
### Active Suspension Systems in F1:
- The conversation revolves around the history and significance of active suspension systems in F1, particularly during the early 1990s.
### Williams FW14B and FW15C:
- The discussion highlights the groundbreaking achievements of the Williams FW14B and FW15C cars, which dominated the 1992 and 1993 F1 seasons, respectively.
- The FW14B's active suspension system, designed by Adrian Newey, provided exceptional control over the car's ride height, allowing for aggressive aerodynamic configurations.
- The FW15C featured even more advanced active suspension technology, with individual control over each corner of the car, enabling precise adjustments to suit various track conditions.
### Innovations and Controversies:
- The podcast delves into the innovative features of the FW14B and FW15C, such as the "DRS push to pass" button, which allowed drivers to temporarily reduce drag for increased straight-line speed.
- The episode also touches upon the telemetry capabilities of these cars, which enabled early detection of tire punctures and other issues, providing valuable information to drivers.
### Impact on F1 and Technological Advancements:
- The widespread adoption of active suspension systems in F1 during the early 1990s led to a surge in costs and concerns about driver safety.
- The FIA eventually banned active suspension systems in F1 from the 1994 season onwards, citing safety and cost concerns.
- However, the technological advancements and innovations pioneered during this era had a lasting impact on F1 and contributed to the development of various technologies used in modern F1 cars.
### Conclusion:
- The podcast concludes with a retrospective look at the active suspension era in F1, acknowledging its significant contributions to the sport's technological evolution while also recognizing the reasons behind its eventual ban.
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[01:51.360 -> 01:54.360] You are listening to Myst Apex Podcast. We live at one.
[01:59.360 -> 02:07.500] I'm your host, Matt Trumpet, and we have twin towers of Titanic tech to entertain you this week in an ASMR fashion.
[02:07.500 -> 02:14.000] First up, we have that story denizen of the tech deep, Matthew Summerfield, aka SummersF1,
[02:14.000 -> 02:19.600] technical editor at Motorsport.com, who has surfaced long enough to spout some F1 wisdom
[02:19.600 -> 02:25.780] our way. And later, engineer extraordinaire Kyle Power, tamer of electrons, will also be joining
[02:25.780 -> 02:30.960] us to peek behind the curtain at some of F1's most tempting forbidden fruit.
[02:30.960 -> 02:35.320] But before we get started, I have to remind you, we are an independent podcast produced
[02:35.320 -> 02:39.560] in the Podcasting Shed with the kind permission of our better halves. We aim to bring you
[02:39.560 -> 02:49.200] a race review before your Monday morning commute. We might be wrong, but we're first.
[02:52.560 -> 02:56.720] Hey there, Summers! Well, we've had our first livery reveal, so I assume you're going to be able to tell us the entire competitive order from that.
[02:56.720 -> 03:06.480] Yeah, that livery reveal of a 2022 car with some bits that are from 2022, some bits that are a bit funky and perhaps are out of,
[03:06.480 -> 03:08.920] I don't know, the back of a shed somewhere.
[03:08.920 -> 03:12.560] And obviously that gives us absolutely nowhere
[03:12.560 -> 03:14.480] to go with the Haas car.
[03:14.480 -> 03:16.600] And hopefully we get some more indication
[03:16.600 -> 03:18.920] from the other launches that we've got coming up.
[03:18.920 -> 03:20.560] Although, as I've mentioned,
[03:20.560 -> 03:22.800] I don't think that will be the Red Bull one either.
[03:22.800 -> 03:25.040] So your guess is as good as mine.
[03:25.440 -> 03:25.840] Yes.
[03:25.840 -> 03:27.000] Well, we will see.
[03:27.000 -> 03:31.120] I think Aston may have promised us a real car at their launch.
[03:31.520 -> 03:34.280] But and we've talked about it on the show, too.
[03:34.560 -> 03:37.880] The favorite game of the people designing the car
[03:38.040 -> 03:41.480] is messing up all the important details before they give the thing
[03:41.480 -> 03:43.720] to the marketing people to put delivery on it. Right.
[03:44.080 -> 03:45.800] Well, yeah, you don't want to give away all your secrets
[03:45.800 -> 03:47.600] before you get to testing, do you?
[03:47.600 -> 03:48.440] No, you don't.
[03:48.440 -> 03:51.080] So instead, you know what I'd like to start with?
[03:51.080 -> 03:52.920] That thing that I know is more important
[03:52.920 -> 03:56.560] than anything else to aerodynamics, the side pods.
[03:56.560 -> 03:57.680] Well, it's close.
[03:57.680 -> 03:59.560] It's kind of close, I guess.
[03:59.560 -> 04:03.000] Ha ha ha, that's a little in-joke,
[04:03.000 -> 04:06.200] because obviously, I can't tell you how many times Summers has
[04:06.200 -> 04:09.800] explained to me the only important thing is the floor.
[04:09.800 -> 04:11.400] Not that the side pods don't matter.
[04:11.400 -> 04:17.560] But we had a discussion, and I remain maybe just because it's the main visual differentiator
[04:17.560 -> 04:19.120] between the cars.
[04:19.120 -> 04:23.120] We had a discussion about the Ferrari and the Red Bull, and you actually, you corrected
[04:23.120 -> 04:24.120] me.
[04:24.120 -> 04:25.440] So I'm going to ask you now,
[04:25.440 -> 04:30.880] once and for all, if we're talking about the side pod concepts, if I'm talking about Red Bull,
[04:31.440 -> 04:37.600] that is a downwash concept. And if we're talking about Ferrari, that is an inwash concept. Have
[04:37.600 -> 04:41.600] I remembered it correctly? You've remembered it correctly, yes.
[04:42.320 -> 04:46.060] Excellent. So now the fun begins, because I'm going to ask you to ignore
[04:46.060 -> 04:50.160] the 1,024 shades of gray you normally see in these things.
[04:50.160 -> 04:52.440] And what I want to do is understand
[04:52.440 -> 04:57.320] how the other cars fall into sort of those two basic ideas
[04:57.320 -> 05:00.440] of what's happening with the air over the top of the car.
[05:00.440 -> 05:02.200] Now, I know that cooling is very important,
[05:02.200 -> 05:04.720] but I don't want to worry about that right now.
[05:04.720 -> 05:09.840] I just want to say, if I'm talking about Haas, is that an in-wash or a downwash?
[05:10.480 -> 05:14.880] Generally speaking, I accept that there will be things that are bits of both.
[05:15.680 -> 05:22.240] So yeah, the Haas is an in-wash because it's got a very similar concept to what we see on the Ferrari.
[05:28.080 -> 05:34.080] similar concept to what we see on the Ferrari. It's basically the updated version that they ran at the tail end of last season, moved more towards the Ferrari bathtub style of side pod,
[05:34.080 -> 05:40.400] which is the sort of scalloped out upper section. And then obviously what you've got is a section
[05:40.400 -> 05:46.980] underneath at the rear, which in washes towards the Coke bottle. And that's why I describe it as an in wash
[05:46.980 -> 05:48.560] versus a down wash.
[05:48.560 -> 05:53.560] Because with the Red Bull, Alpha Tauri, Alpine,
[05:54.320 -> 05:56.880] and several other variants of it,
[05:56.880 -> 05:58.860] obviously Williams moved in that direction as well
[05:58.860 -> 06:01.520] in the latter part of last season.
[06:01.520 -> 06:03.320] Aston Martin copied Red Bull as well,
[06:03.320 -> 06:04.600] so they moved in that direction.
[06:04.600 -> 06:07.720] You've got this sort of ramped section at the back of the side
[06:07.720 -> 06:12.280] part, which is creating downwash to the rear of the floor and
[06:12.280 -> 06:13.600] into the Coke bottle region.
[06:13.720 -> 06:16.080] So they're all doing very, very similar things.
[06:16.080 -> 06:18.400] They're just trying to achieve it in different ways.
[06:18.880 -> 06:19.280] Okay.
[06:19.280 -> 06:23.000] So if we're saying, if we're talking like families of cars,
[06:23.000 -> 06:25.120] like these are your cousins second and third
[06:25.120 -> 06:32.080] cousins we've got Ferrari, Papa Ferrari, and we've got Haas obviously very closely related perhaps
[06:32.080 -> 06:38.160] too closely but that's the FIA's problem not mine or yours. Who else is who else is following uh
[06:38.160 -> 06:45.600] that sort of side pod path that more in-wash path? Well I think the one team that sort of bridges the gap
[06:45.600 -> 06:48.600] between that and Red Bull is Alpine.
[06:48.600 -> 06:51.600] They've got a mixture of both of those style of side pods
[06:51.600 -> 06:54.200] because they've got sort of a scallop section
[06:54.200 -> 06:56.000] in their downwash ramp,
[06:56.000 -> 06:59.300] but they don't do what Ferrari and Haas do in many ways,
[06:59.300 -> 07:01.000] which is create the undercut underneath
[07:01.000 -> 07:03.000] the back of the side pod profile
[07:03.000 -> 07:05.200] to create that more in-wash profile that
[07:05.200 -> 07:11.760] we're talking about into the coke bottle region. But as I say, all of these concepts are very
[07:11.760 -> 07:17.520] similar in as much as that they're doing very much the same role. They're just trying to perform it
[07:17.520 -> 07:22.720] in different ways. If you remember the sort of thing that we had with the Coanda-style exhaust
[07:22.720 -> 07:26.320] back in 2012, everybody had a different way of
[07:26.320 -> 07:32.480] achieving what was essentially the same net goal, which is to get the exhaust gases at that particular
[07:33.520 -> 07:38.800] time frame and the airflow moving around the side pod to do what they were looking to do and get
[07:38.800 -> 07:43.600] the airflow moving into that coat bottle region and obviously help the diffuser performance.
[07:44.320 -> 07:47.160] Obviously, all of the teams are very much looking to do that.
[07:47.760 -> 07:52.680] And also trying to do that in a way in which that they can harness with the floor
[07:52.960 -> 07:56.040] architecture that they've got and also the engine cover.
[07:56.560 -> 08:00.440] You have to remember that a lot of teams last season also moved to what you would
[08:00.440 -> 08:01.320] call a shelf.
[08:02.000 -> 08:07.300] So you've got the halo coming down into the bodywork and then they created this sort of upper shelf
[08:07.300 -> 08:10.440] to create a barrier for the airflow
[08:10.440 -> 08:13.940] to be directed towards the rear of the car.
[08:13.940 -> 08:16.840] So a lot of teams were converging on ideas
[08:16.840 -> 08:18.420] during the course of last season
[08:18.420 -> 08:21.180] and we'll see more of that this season.
[08:21.180 -> 08:24.100] But obviously you do have some concepts
[08:24.100 -> 08:26.080] that stand out against one another in many ways.
[08:26.080 -> 08:31.200] You know, you've got three major concepts. You've got Mercedes, Ferrari, and Red Bull,
[08:31.200 -> 08:33.600] and everybody else is sort of trading off those ideas.
[08:34.240 -> 08:39.760] Okay, so it sounds like outside of those three that you mentioned, everybody else is sort of
[08:40.480 -> 08:47.280] leaning more towards the Red Bull idea. And I want to just stick a pin in
[08:47.280 -> 08:51.560] Mercedes for a second here because clearly they don't belong, as you said, to
[08:51.560 -> 08:55.000] either one, but also no one in their right mind is going to try and copy that
[08:55.000 -> 09:00.320] concept. So what I want to know is, are there trade-offs that you have seen sort
[09:00.320 -> 09:05.000] of between these two families of side pod design.
[09:05.320 -> 09:07.880] Like is Red Bull have a wider window,
[09:07.880 -> 09:11.240] but Ferrari's got a bigger peak, something like that.
[09:11.240 -> 09:13.520] Again, I don't think there's too much of that going on
[09:13.520 -> 09:15.840] in as much as that once you've set your stall out
[09:15.840 -> 09:17.400] in that design direction,
[09:17.400 -> 09:20.480] you then have to work on the other components
[09:20.480 -> 09:22.800] that work in unison with them.
[09:22.800 -> 09:26.660] Think of it that daisy chain or that aerodynamic handshake that we've talked
[09:26.660 -> 09:30.940] about in the past, where one section of the car has to technically talk to the
[09:30.940 -> 09:36.000] other section in order to get a better airflow structure working across the
[09:36.000 -> 09:37.320] entire map of the car.
[09:37.500 -> 09:42.580] So it is very individual amongst the teams because we must remember, you know,
[09:42.580 -> 09:48.940] that all of these teams have got different wheelbases, they've all got different ways of managing the wake ahead of the side
[09:48.940 -> 09:55.500] pods and so on and so forth. But I think one thing that we will see teams gravitate towards
[09:55.500 -> 10:00.640] more this season from the Red Bull perspective that we only really saw on the Red Bull last
[10:00.640 -> 10:05.480] year was the sort of sticky out lip section of the forward section of
[10:05.480 -> 10:11.200] the side pod for the inlets. And from what I've seen of the Aston Martin in the sort
[10:11.200 -> 10:16.320] of teaser shots so far, I think they've very much moved into that direction already. We
[10:16.320 -> 10:21.600] already saw McLaren try to move in that direction last season. And I do see that will be something
[10:21.600 -> 10:25.600] that teams will pick up on because it's a way of managing
[10:25.600 -> 10:30.920] the airflow into the inlet and also in and around the front part of the side pod.
[10:30.920 -> 10:35.720] On top of that, you've got to think about things like the side impact protection spars,
[10:35.720 -> 10:40.240] which obviously Friary kind of changed the game in 2017.
[10:40.240 -> 10:46.880] And by the end of that regulation set, we had all of the teams running a lower slung upper spar.
[10:47.600 -> 10:52.560] So I think this is something that we'll see teams more or less gravitate towards because
[10:52.560 -> 10:59.520] it's a decent way of dealing with the side impact structures and also the flow management
[10:59.520 -> 11:07.200] between the various routes that it has to take in that area. So that will be one thing to look out for on the launch cars.
[11:07.640 -> 11:08.100] Okay.
[11:08.100 -> 11:10.080] That's, that's interesting.
[11:10.140 -> 11:16.480] Um, and you, you sort of hinted at this, but do you think we have an overall
[11:16.480 -> 11:19.760] winner at this point between these two concepts?
[11:19.760 -> 11:23.760] I mean, just from the numbers game, it seems like a lot more teams
[11:23.820 -> 11:25.540] are wanting to follow
[11:25.540 -> 11:26.760] Red Bull.
[11:26.760 -> 11:33.020] But is that maybe a concept that's very successful up front because it's maybe a little easier
[11:33.020 -> 11:39.320] to manage, but in the long run, there might be more room for the Ferrari side to grow?
[11:39.320 -> 11:42.600] Or is it really just Red Bull did a better job from the beginning?
[11:42.600 -> 11:46.880] No, I think it's fair to say that the Red Bull route
[11:46.880 -> 11:50.080] is a little bit more benign from an aerodynamic perspective,
[11:50.080 -> 11:52.320] i.e. it's a little bit more beige in terms of being able
[11:52.320 -> 11:56.200] to get it to work out of the box and then refine it as you go.
[11:56.200 -> 11:59.320] We've already seen that Red Bull made changes to theirs
[11:59.320 -> 12:01.480] throughout the course of the season last year
[12:01.480 -> 12:03.480] to be able to hone in and optimize
[12:03.480 -> 12:05.600] the solution themselves.
[12:11.640 -> 12:15.960] If we look at historically, Red Bull have tried very aggressive routes in the past. If we look at 2012, as we mentioned earlier with the ramped Coanda,
[12:16.680 -> 12:21.880] they had about 14 different iterations of that particular design concept
[12:21.880 -> 12:26.680] to try to make a very complex undercut tunnel work. So I
[12:26.680 -> 12:31.800] don't think teams want to get into that sort of weeds at this stage. They're just looking
[12:31.800 -> 12:38.720] to gain performance on what they had last season and make that sort of leap forward
[12:38.720 -> 12:42.760] compared to their 2022 cars. I mean, at the end of the day, all of the teams are only
[12:42.760 -> 12:48.680] guessing at where other teams are in regards to performance going into the season. So it's always a bit of a
[12:48.680 -> 12:50.320] guessing game at this point anyway.
[12:50.320 -> 12:54.880] Yeah, well, I mean, this is actually one of the things that fascinates me because if all
[12:54.880 -> 13:00.760] you're doing is looking at what other teams did and adding to what you've done, well,
[13:00.760 -> 13:07.280] you know, you might be missing bigger chunks of time as opposed to looking at what you've got and saying,
[13:07.280 -> 13:13.040] how do we—where is my original thought in this? It's not just all teams copying each other, is it?
[13:13.760 -> 13:20.480] No, it's not. It's very much a case of being able to look at the overall package and suggesting,
[13:21.600 -> 13:27.840] maybe we've gone down the wrong route here. We can't get the kind of performance that we were looking for out of what we were
[13:27.840 -> 13:31.760] trying to do. And this idea is, you know, particularly good.
[13:32.080 -> 13:36.080] Let's run the numbers on it and see if there's a reason to make the swap.
[13:36.080 -> 13:40.520] I mean, the biggest change out of all the teams last season, perhaps, was the Aston
[13:40.520 -> 13:46.400] Martin design, because they changed completely their concept from what they started
[13:46.400 -> 13:51.840] the season out at and then moved into the Red Bull style design. I mean it was almost a carbon copy
[13:51.840 -> 13:58.000] in many ways. And I think we'll see more of that this season as things develop. All these teams are
[13:58.000 -> 14:14.600] looking at one another to try to optimise not only their own packages but also try to make in you know large games on the rest of the field so it's it's it's just a development right at the end of the day is in it you know this is always going to be.
[14:14.820 -> 14:19.660] Thousands of a second found by just the most tiniest of changes.
[14:19.860 -> 14:27.360] Alright so i'm i'm reasonably satisfied with that. Let me ask you, where does the Mercedes concept
[14:27.360 -> 14:34.480] belong family-wise? I mean, we've got downwash, we've got inwash. How would you characterize that
[14:34.480 -> 14:39.120] massive expanse of unprotected floor? Well, the thing with the...
[14:39.120 -> 14:41.440] Whitewash? Washout? I don't know.
[14:42.240 -> 14:48.040] The thing with the Mercedes design is they tried to continue down the route that they
[14:48.040 -> 14:54.440] used throughout the course of the previous regulation set, as obviously you would expect.
[14:54.440 -> 14:59.040] But the other teams have obviously decided to move in a more different route for one
[14:59.040 -> 15:00.400] reason or another.
[15:00.400 -> 15:06.240] Now I don't think Mercedes got too much wrong in many ways with the design of their side
[15:06.240 -> 15:07.240] pods.
[15:07.240 -> 15:12.400] And I still think that there's room for them to make progress there.
[15:12.400 -> 15:16.860] The bulk of their problems weren't actually related to the design of the side pods.
[15:16.860 -> 15:21.520] It was an exterior force involving the floor and all of that sort of stuff.
[15:21.520 -> 15:30.360] So we're not talking specifically about the side pod design. One thing that I think gets a little bit lost in the whole side pod situation,
[15:30.360 -> 15:36.620] and I know we weren't talking about cooling, but Mercedes started down a route about seven
[15:36.620 -> 15:41.360] or eight years ago that others have started to now follow, and that is the recessed radiator
[15:41.360 -> 15:46.400] situation. And Mercedes went very, very extreme with that last year.
[15:46.400 -> 15:49.240] In order to push the radiators further inboard,
[15:49.240 -> 15:51.680] that means that they have to make massive cutouts
[15:51.680 -> 15:52.760] in the chassis.
[15:52.760 -> 15:55.520] And as I say, other teams have gone down that route
[15:55.520 -> 15:58.600] to try to mitigate the amount of space
[15:58.600 -> 16:02.160] that you use up across the center of the car,
[16:02.160 -> 16:04.600] but not to the degree that Mercedes did last year.
[16:04.600 -> 16:09.120] And that's why they ended up with what we called the the zero pod in the end. Okay,
[16:09.120 -> 16:14.640] so are we thinking that my 0.5 pod idea is now correct, that they might come off
[16:14.640 -> 16:19.480] of that a little bit to help? Or is it really just a ride
[16:19.480 -> 16:23.920] height and suspension thing at the end of the day that they couldn't fix
[16:23.920 -> 16:25.800] because they couldn't homologate
[16:25.800 -> 16:28.560] a whole new chassis to solve their problem.
[16:28.560 -> 16:31.880] Yeah, and I think that there's a few other things
[16:31.880 -> 16:35.640] fundamentally about the way in which that the car,
[16:35.640 -> 16:36.700] obviously, as you mentioned,
[16:36.700 -> 16:39.040] operated in the right height scope,
[16:39.040 -> 16:43.260] but also the way in which the tunnel entrances worked
[16:43.260 -> 16:46.360] because of their position relative to the chassis. If you look at the Red Bull which the tunnel entrances worked because of their position relative to the chassis.
[16:46.360 -> 16:48.360] If you look at the Red Bull versus the Mercedes
[16:48.360 -> 16:51.360] in that respect, they are very much in different positions.
[16:51.360 -> 16:54.040] And that obviously then makes the floor more volatile
[16:54.040 -> 16:56.680] because you can't get the levels of pressure, et cetera,
[16:56.680 -> 16:58.400] that you want in the right places.
[16:58.400 -> 17:01.240] I think that's where Mercedes struggled particularly
[17:02.120 -> 17:03.880] in the initial stages anyway.
[17:03.880 -> 17:06.700] Once they got it worked out with the Silverstone update,
[17:06.700 -> 17:09.360] I think that kind of changed everything for them.
[17:09.360 -> 17:12.320] And I think that over the course of the next few years,
[17:12.320 -> 17:14.200] because they took that pain early,
[17:14.200 -> 17:16.760] they might have found things that other teams stumble
[17:16.760 -> 17:20.160] across and cannot fix quite as quickly as they want to,
[17:20.160 -> 17:21.840] a little bit further down the line when
[17:21.840 -> 17:23.840] they look for more performance.
[17:23.840 -> 17:29.440] OK, so I'm going to ask then, because we're talking about updates. One of the things that
[17:29.440 -> 17:34.960] I noticed is that there seemed to be two major schools of thought on updates in the first season.
[17:34.960 -> 17:39.760] There were people who worked very hard on very big packages and figured they'd bring them a
[17:39.760 -> 17:44.560] couple of times in the season. And then there were sort of those people who showed up with
[17:46.840 -> 17:52.400] of times in the season. And then there were sort of those people who showed up with like a smaller update but more regularly. Like I'm thinking particularly of Alpine, which I don't know where
[17:52.400 -> 17:56.080] they found the money or time to bring something to every race, but it seems like they pretty much
[17:56.080 -> 18:11.880] did. So it seems like to me the teams who brought regular smaller updates actually did better last season. Do you agree with that observation, and do you expect that to continue as the team's
[18:11.880 -> 18:14.200] understanding of these regulations mature?
[18:14.200 -> 18:16.840] Yeah, I mean, I think you're completely right there.
[18:16.840 -> 18:21.240] There were two schools of thought, and as you mentioned, Alpine were very much on the
[18:21.240 -> 18:25.640] side of the fence of bringing little but often. They had a new
[18:25.640 -> 18:31.600] update even if it was small at every race up until I think it was three quarters of
[18:31.600 -> 18:35.080] the way through the season and that's when their development started to tail off and
[18:35.080 -> 18:39.840] obviously they'd sort of wound out of development of last year's car and had already started
[18:39.840 -> 18:47.680] on this year's car a little bit ahead of that anyway. And I do feel that they had perhaps the right approach
[18:47.680 -> 18:51.480] in many ways, because not only are you then adding
[18:51.480 -> 18:53.760] and optimizing on a smaller basis.
[18:53.760 -> 18:56.580] So if you've got something wrong, you've got it wrong small,
[18:56.580 -> 18:58.720] not big, like some teams were.
[18:59.740 -> 19:04.200] You're also in a situation where you can bring updates
[19:04.200 -> 19:07.400] that have more meaning at certain types of
[19:07.400 -> 19:08.960] tracks.
[19:08.960 -> 19:14.720] We talk about high, medium, and low downforce circuits, but traditionally there are other
[19:14.720 -> 19:19.120] kind of circuits on the calendar that just stick out and require something a little bit
[19:19.120 -> 19:20.120] extra.
[19:20.120 -> 19:24.440] I think that's one thing that we missed out on this year compared to in previous years.
[19:24.440 -> 19:28.400] If you think of what we would normally call the Monza spec rear wings, we didn't
[19:28.400 -> 19:38.800] really get that in 2022 because the teams were so needing to rely on their resources
[19:39.200 -> 19:44.920] and obviously the cost cap having its implications, that they had to kind of
[19:44.920 -> 19:46.080] manage things in a very
[19:46.080 -> 19:51.920] different way. That's why, as you mentioned, I think Alpine perhaps did exceptionally well to
[19:51.920 -> 19:58.240] stay where they did under the budget cap and using the amount of resource they did. But again, that's
[19:58.240 -> 20:04.080] where we will start to see these trade-offs happen over the course of the next few years as things
[20:04.080 -> 20:10.520] mature in terms of the way in which teams lose and gain percentages on the aero side of things on the wind tunnel
[20:10.520 -> 20:11.520] and CFD.
[20:11.520 -> 20:15.680] And also, obviously, then they work their way through the cost cap.
[20:15.680 -> 20:17.560] It's all a balancing act at the end of the day.
[20:17.560 -> 20:18.980] It is all trade-offs.
[20:18.980 -> 20:23.700] So with that said, and sort of brought back up to speed on what the teams are up to, I'd
[20:23.700 -> 20:30.560] like to talk a little bit about what you think the new rules—because there are several new rules and I'd like to sort of go
[20:30.560 -> 20:36.800] over them generally—how do you think that's going to impact the different teams? And we're going to
[20:36.800 -> 20:42.800] start with what is the hottest take you will ever hear on a technical show, which is that the
[20:43.360 -> 20:46.240] raising of the floor edge and the diffuser throat
[20:46.240 -> 20:50.800] and the restrictions on the plank, which came into being at the summer break,
[20:50.800 -> 20:53.920] were nothing but a huge giveaway to Mercedes because they were so far behind.
[20:55.920 -> 21:07.240] Um, I do think that obviously has probably favored the silver team a little bit more than some of the others. It didn't hurt Red Bull as much as many thought it would.
[21:07.720 -> 21:09.440] It hurt Ferrari a lot.
[21:10.000 -> 21:14.080] And I think there's a couple of things to mention here.
[21:14.080 -> 21:23.920] So going into 2023, we will now have a dedicated accelerometer that the FIA have
[21:26.720 -> 21:27.280] accelerometer that the FIA have instructed a sole supplier for.
[21:33.040 -> 21:36.280] And that will be measured to be able to allow the governing body to stay on top of the aerodynamic oscillation metric.
[21:37.040 -> 21:38.360] Yes, you heard it.
[21:38.840 -> 21:39.880] An AOM.
[21:40.440 -> 21:47.760] What a very confusing thing that they set up there, but you know, if that's how you want to regulate it, then fair enough.
[21:47.760 -> 21:50.280] And as you mentioned, we've also got changes
[21:50.280 -> 21:52.680] to the floor and the floor edge.
[21:52.680 -> 21:56.640] Yes, I hereby nominate, we call it the bouncy brain metric.
[21:56.640 -> 21:58.240] Yeah, that works for me.
[22:00.380 -> 22:03.960] I don't think having had the experience
[22:03.960 -> 22:06.460] of seeing all of these sort of regulations play
[22:06.460 -> 22:13.540] out over the course of as many years as I have now, that the impact will be anything
[22:13.540 -> 22:17.740] but tiny in terms of performance.
[22:17.740 -> 22:22.580] Because what was talked about is that most, that the teams would lose up to half a second
[22:22.580 -> 22:25.120] because of this floor edge race.
[22:25.840 -> 22:30.720] They'll have found a second and a half between 22 and 23 anyway.
[22:32.800 -> 22:38.640] It makes little difference. It's a bit like when we had the floor cut out between 20 and 21.
[22:38.640 -> 22:46.580] Everybody was expecting the cars to be a huge amount slower, and they weren't. The teams found a way around it,
[22:46.580 -> 22:49.320] and they will do in these circumstances as well.
[22:49.320 -> 22:51.300] They'll just find a way to make it work.
[22:51.300 -> 22:53.160] Yes, they will have to work
[22:53.160 -> 22:55.580] those aerodynamic surfaces harder,
[22:55.580 -> 22:59.100] which means that they'll be working at a higher peak,
[22:59.100 -> 23:01.580] but I do think that we'll still be looking
[23:01.580 -> 23:04.580] at a similar sort of performance as to what we had last year,
[23:04.580 -> 23:08.960] if not a lot more than where we were when we get to the first race, let
[23:08.960 -> 23:12.160] alone the development that we see throughout the course of the season.
[23:12.160 -> 23:17.320] So you'd say all things being equal, regardless of Mercedes, Ferrari, or Red Bull, because
[23:17.320 -> 23:22.320] let's just focus on them for a second, it's going to cause all of them about the same
[23:22.320 -> 23:23.320] amount of pain.
[23:23.320 -> 23:27.040] Yeah, I mean, it's a headache. It's something that they have to resolve.
[23:27.040 -> 23:28.760] They have to make changes for.
[23:28.760 -> 23:31.480] But it's not something that can't be overcome.
[23:31.480 -> 23:33.680] It's not something that can't be,
[23:33.680 -> 23:36.800] you can't not learn a lesson from what you already know.
[23:36.800 -> 23:38.880] Those guys already know things.
[23:38.880 -> 23:41.320] They're going to apply what they know to the new thing,
[23:41.320 -> 23:43.120] and they're going to get more performance.
[23:43.120 -> 23:44.800] So generally, that has been the case
[23:44.800 -> 23:47.800] when these sort of real changes have come about in Formula
[23:47.800 -> 23:48.800] One in the past.
[23:48.800 -> 23:55.800] Okay, so you notice that I didn't mention anyone who finished behind Mercedes yet.
[23:55.800 -> 23:58.920] I have a question for you.
[23:58.920 -> 24:06.240] Is it going to be worse for the midfield, and particularly maybe for those teams that maybe are just making
[24:06.240 -> 24:10.240] the cost cap-ish versus those that are fully funded.
[24:10.240 -> 24:13.040] So that's my first question.
[24:13.040 -> 24:16.480] Will this be worse for the midfield than it is for the three at the top?
[24:16.480 -> 24:27.200] Yes, it always is, because even though from a sliding scale now, CFD and wind tunnel wise, the leaders have less resource at their disposal.
[24:27.200 -> 24:33.640] They still have more at their disposal in terms of the personnel that they have, the
[24:33.640 -> 24:37.840] history of being able to get out of these tight spots in the past.
[24:37.840 -> 24:42.080] So I do think it will be a case of that the midfield and the back end runners will suffer
[24:42.080 -> 24:47.880] more, but they have more of an opportunity to be able to overcome those problems with the resources that they
[24:47.880 -> 24:48.940] have at their disposal.
[24:48.940 -> 24:52.480] And that is the good thing about the sliding scale side of things.
[24:52.480 -> 24:57.360] And I do hope that in the future, that will be something that helps to close
[24:57.360 -> 25:00.280] the gap because the gap is too large as we stand.
[25:00.720 -> 25:01.040] Yes.
[25:01.040 -> 25:04.880] Well, you have neatly anticipated where I was going with that was that these
[25:04.880 -> 25:05.480] regulations had two purposes. Yes, well you have neatly anticipated where I was going with that, was that these regulations
[25:05.480 -> 25:11.040] had two purposes, one of which was to allow the cars to follow more closely and to race
[25:11.040 -> 25:12.240] more closely.
[25:12.240 -> 25:20.080] And I think we can all agree, despite the various levels of, well, disbelief, that they
[25:20.080 -> 25:21.080] pulled it off.
[25:21.080 -> 25:26.800] These cars can run closer nose to tail, we've seen longer battles and Pirelli
[25:26.800 -> 25:32.320] has supplied tires that are capable of serving the teams. They're not perfect, they cause some
[25:32.320 -> 25:39.920] problems, but overall they achieved their goal of getting the cars closer together on track.
[25:39.920 -> 25:51.200] But the goal they haven't achieved, and perhaps this is the bigger and more important goal long term for the sport, which is getting the sharper end of the midfield back into a place where winning
[25:51.200 -> 25:57.040] races isn't an inconceivable thing unless, you know, someone billiard balls the entire
[25:57.600 -> 26:01.760] front end of the field into the first corner in, let's say, oh, I don't know, Hungary, maybe.
[26:03.440 -> 26:05.880] Yeah, I mean, this is a problem, isn't it?
[26:05.880 -> 26:08.800] And there are things that have been put in place
[26:08.800 -> 26:10.860] to try to resolve the issue.
[26:10.860 -> 26:14.800] I don't think the measures were quite aggressive enough,
[26:14.800 -> 26:16.680] but unfortunately, when you have the teams
[26:16.680 -> 26:19.280] also involved in making decisions,
[26:19.280 -> 26:20.720] you're gonna have them push back
[26:20.720 -> 26:22.480] on the decisions that are being made.
[26:22.480 -> 26:23.960] And unfortunately, that's where we currently are
[26:23.960 -> 26:27.240] with Formula One, is that the teams have too much power over the
[26:27.240 -> 26:28.760] governing of the sport.
[26:30.640 -> 26:33.800] As I said, I do think that that will resolve itself over
[26:34.080 -> 26:35.480] a certain amount of time.
[26:35.840 -> 26:39.000] I do think that also the FIA have done something quite
[26:39.000 -> 26:42.840] interesting in terms of helping the drivers when they
[26:42.840 -> 26:45.200] are in wheel-to-wheel battles this season,
[26:45.200 -> 26:50.000] which again is another real change, which is the increase in the size of the wing mirrors.
[26:50.000 -> 26:54.280] I do think that was a good move that they made during the course of last season to try
[26:54.280 -> 26:59.040] to help. Also, you mentioned Pirelli, and Pirelli are also bringing new tyres for this
[26:59.040 -> 27:03.360] year. So we're going to have a set of tyres that should produce less understeer, which
[27:03.360 -> 27:09.960] is something that all of the teams and the drivers complained about last season. So hopefully that will also help
[27:09.960 -> 27:17.120] in terms of improving the wheel-to-wheel action, because obviously, you know, we should have
[27:17.120 -> 27:21.160] cars that can race each other a little bit more easily without understeering off the
[27:21.160 -> 27:25.280] planet. And obviously, yeah, we've obviously got a couple
[27:25.280 -> 27:28.100] of other rules that have changed along the way,
[27:28.100 -> 27:32.800] but I think fundamentally what we've got this season coming
[27:32.800 -> 27:35.040] is perhaps the first time in a long time
[27:35.040 -> 27:38.560] where we haven't had huge and significant rule changes
[27:38.560 -> 27:42.200] in a knee-jerk reaction to a set of rule changes,
[27:42.200 -> 27:47.360] which Formula One has a tendency to do when it introduces something
[27:47.360 -> 27:50.160] as large scale as we've had in 2022.
[27:50.160 -> 27:55.720] You know, 2014 for argument's sake, everybody went mad about those rules.
[27:55.720 -> 28:00.540] 2017, the response to those rules then had another response to those rules for 2019.
[28:00.540 -> 28:05.400] So hopefully we can have a period of calm where we don't change too much.
[28:05.400 -> 28:09.400] And that should also help to keep the teams closing in on one another.
[28:09.400 -> 28:15.500] Yeah, because it was the end of the V8 era, I believe, was the last time we saw, what was it?
[28:15.500 -> 28:17.300] Five winners in five races.
[28:17.300 -> 28:25.320] And it's because we had reasonably stable regulations for long enough that the teams with less resource could catch
[28:25.320 -> 28:31.880] up to the teams with greater resource, who finally hit that point of diminishing return.
[28:31.880 -> 28:37.080] And I want to ask, like, just as a random thing, because you mentioned positively this
[28:37.080 -> 28:41.200] scale balance for CFD and wind tunnel time and stuff like that.
[28:41.200 -> 28:48.480] We saw how disastrous the power unit rules were in 2014, especially in terms of new
[28:48.480 -> 28:55.120] entrance. Do you think, looking at how well it's working on the aerodynamic side, that the FIA might
[28:55.120 -> 29:01.280] be considering a similar scale for power unit manufacturers when we move on to the next set
[29:01.280 -> 29:06.200] of power unit regulations? And if they aren't, is that something that could work?
[29:06.200 -> 29:08.640] Is that something that they should maybe think about a little bit?
[29:08.640 -> 29:14.080] Yeah, I mean, as you mentioned, I think everybody had kind of forgotten about the token system,
[29:14.080 -> 29:15.080] Matt.
[29:15.080 -> 29:21.360] You've just opened a new wound that had been closed for many years.
[29:21.360 -> 29:23.040] It was very easy for me to understand.
[29:23.040 -> 29:27.000] I don't understand why people didn't quite get what was going on with the token system.
[29:27.000 -> 29:31.000] But I thought it was actually quite a genius move what they did there.
[29:31.000 -> 29:39.000] But unfortunately, the manufacturers sort of ran roughshod all over the FIA and got them to change things quite early on.
[29:39.000 -> 29:46.380] But yeah, it could be a case for 2026 that we see that kind of thing. There's already questions being asked
[29:46.380 -> 29:49.300] about whether we're changing the aero platform for 2026
[29:49.300 -> 29:52.980] as well, which to me makes zero sense.
[29:52.980 -> 29:56.260] We're just gonna be three or four years into the cycle
[29:56.260 -> 29:58.700] and suddenly we want a new car again.
[29:58.700 -> 30:01.340] I don't get where that really achieves anything
[30:01.340 -> 30:05.160] in terms of closing the pack up. But we'll see what happens.
[30:05.400 -> 30:09.200] But there is a line in the sand because of the new powertrain.
[30:09.200 -> 30:13.800] So I think that's why they're thinking that they might also rethink the chassis
[30:13.800 -> 30:15.520] and aero rules at the same time.
[30:15.920 -> 30:17.440] To me, that does it to me.
[30:17.440 -> 30:19.000] It should be the opposite.
[30:19.000 -> 30:23.120] Like, I know this is I'm here to listen to what you have to say, but I just will,
[30:23.200 -> 30:26.000] on a personal note, say it just blows
[30:26.000 -> 30:31.200] my mind that they haven't figured out that they should run these things in like 12-year cycles,
[30:31.200 -> 30:36.880] and the first six years you should have 12 years of stable power unit regulations and 12 years of
[30:36.880 -> 30:41.040] stable aerodynamic regulations, you know, obviously with tweaks here and there, and that they should
[30:41.040 -> 30:45.280] be offset at a six-year period. Therefore, you get mix-ups,
[30:45.280 -> 30:52.080] but you don't have this unmitigated disaster of everything has changed and nobody knows what's
[30:52.080 -> 30:59.600] going on. And then the resource spend meters out much more evenly. I don't know. I don't know.
[30:59.600 -> 31:07.160] Maybe I'm just getting old and I just need some clouds to yell at, but that's kind of... I'm just getting old and I just need some clouds to yell at, but that that's kind of, I'm just astonished that no one has talked about that.
[31:07.960 -> 31:08.160] Yeah.
[31:08.160 -> 31:13.080] I mean, we're already mentioned in 2014 and that's exactly what happened in 2014.
[31:13.080 -> 31:18.480] We had a big aerodynamic change and a power unit change and the two combined
[31:18.480 -> 31:23.240] had major implications because the teams and the engine manufacturers didn't
[31:23.240 -> 31:25.360] really hit the mark running apart from
[31:25.360 -> 31:30.960] Mercedes. And so I really don't want to see that happen again. I really think that we should think
[31:30.960 -> 31:38.560] about having just a powertrain change in 2026 and if necessary, another two year cycle until
[31:38.560 -> 31:53.000] an aero change, but we shall see how that pans out. Yes. I think the good news is that the FIA, which makes the rules, has the engineers that developed these regulations.
[31:53.000 -> 31:59.000] So I don't think we're going to get that same sort of just knee-jerk reaction because they understand.
[31:59.000 -> 32:01.000] And I guess you could say we sort of see it already.
[32:01.000 -> 32:05.440] They banned the Aston rear wing. They banned the Mercedes front wing.
[32:05.840 -> 32:09.760] They know what the teams are up to, and they may not have the resource to keep
[32:09.760 -> 32:15.840] them from doing it initially, but they seem to be on the right track, keeping
[32:15.840 -> 32:20.440] the point of the regulations the same, regardless of what the teams bring to the
[32:20.440 -> 32:20.800] table.
[32:21.200 -> 32:21.400] Yeah.
[32:21.400 -> 32:25.200] You also have to question the side of the sport that you're
[32:25.200 -> 32:28.640] trying to influence as well though, because technically you're taking away some of the
[32:28.640 -> 32:35.520] engineering aspect of the sport by keep banning things on an almost instant basis. I know the
[32:35.520 -> 32:41.680] only instant ban we realistically got last season was the slot gap separator on the Mercedes front
[32:41.680 -> 32:45.640] wing and obviously allowed the Mercedes front wing end plate
[32:45.640 -> 32:52.540] and Aston rear wing end plate solutions for the course of the season. But are we in danger
[32:52.540 -> 32:58.740] of making a sport that is almost a spec series and solely about entertainment and taking
[32:58.740 -> 33:09.900] away some of the engineering side of things by being over-regulated. That is the conundrum that I think Formula One might have to question itself in the coming
[33:09.900 -> 33:10.900] years.
[33:10.900 -> 33:17.340] Well, I think the point that I have seen made elsewhere, and I'll bring it up again now,
[33:17.340 -> 33:28.120] is that the more strict the cost cap gets, and the better policed it is, perhaps you can then start to give the teams
[33:28.120 -> 33:35.800] some leeway, as long as what they're doing doesn't contribute to sort of that outwash,
[33:35.800 -> 33:41.600] can't follow problem that these regulations were set to solve.
[33:41.600 -> 33:47.840] I seem to remember a certain set of regulations that never actually appeared,
[33:48.400 -> 33:54.320] posing those very questions from a certain Max Mosley. Well, there you go. All right. So before
[33:54.320 -> 34:00.720] we run ourselves out of time here, I'd like to talk about testing. Now, I know that you're not
[34:00.720 -> 34:06.520] supposed to look at lap times and that you yourself mainly look at pictures
[34:06.520 -> 34:09.500] and see what's going on.
[34:09.500 -> 34:12.920] But we've had some listener questions about testing,
[34:12.920 -> 34:15.120] and so I thought I would start with those first,
[34:15.120 -> 34:16.760] if that's okay with you.
[34:16.760 -> 34:18.040] – Cool, sure.
[34:18.040 -> 34:21.400] – Stuart Neal, having seen the livery reveals,
[34:21.400 -> 34:24.040] says, how about with all the new livery launches?
[34:24.040 -> 34:28.520] How important is paint to the efficiency and weight of F1 cars in 2023?
[34:28.520 -> 34:30.000] And I thought that was a really good question.
[34:30.400 -> 34:30.600] Yeah.
[34:30.600 -> 34:36.120] I mean, the thing about paint and the thing about weights last season was that
[34:36.280 -> 34:41.600] the weight limit got increased to 798 kilograms ahead of the season starting.
[34:42.160 -> 34:45.980] Because all of the teams weren't able to meet the minimum
[34:45.980 -> 34:51.940] that was already set out in the regulations. Now this year we're supposed to be 2kg lighter
[34:51.940 -> 34:58.500] at 796kg as the minimum weight and I'm already hearing that the last TAC meeting they are
[34:58.500 -> 35:04.140] trying to get it pushed back out to 798kg. So we might still be at that weight come the
[35:04.140 -> 35:06.240] start of this season which just goes to
[35:06.240 -> 35:11.540] prove that all of the teams are still struggling in terms of weight. Now, the one standout
[35:11.540 -> 35:18.000] for me last season in terms of the paint and weight issue is Williams. And you could say
[35:18.000 -> 35:22.400] McLaren in many respects as well. If you look at their cars from the start of the season
[35:22.400 -> 35:29.960] to the end of the season, they went from having color everywhere to basically being bare carbon in as much places as you
[35:29.960 -> 35:31.320] could possibly imagine.
[35:31.320 -> 35:36.800] And I believe that the guys at Williams actually asked whether they could take all of the paint
[35:36.800 -> 35:42.560] off the car and run it bare carbon with just the sponsorship decals on there.
[35:42.560 -> 35:45.360] That is how crucial obviously that side of things is.
[35:45.720 -> 35:47.360] But we're only talking grams here.
[35:47.720 -> 35:50.440] But as we know, grams are lap time.
[35:50.440 -> 35:55.120] So whatever they can do to try to shave that off their lap time, they will
[35:55.120 -> 35:56.160] take that opportunity.
[35:56.560 -> 36:00.520] Now, I'm going to ask a follow up question, and this isn't because I've just
[36:00.520 -> 36:08.560] watched a lecture with a famous aerodynamicist. But doesn't it matter in certain places the kind of surface
[36:08.560 -> 36:10.400] that the air encounters?
[36:10.400 -> 36:12.720] Because you get different types of flow.
[36:12.720 -> 36:15.920] You get sort of a straight, thin flow, which is laminar,
[36:15.920 -> 36:18.240] or you get a turbulent flow.
[36:18.240 -> 36:21.400] And it can make a difference, certainly,
[36:21.400 -> 36:24.560] in some of the conditions that the car encounters.
[36:24.560 -> 36:28.160] So are there places where they really just don't want paint on it?
[36:28.160 -> 36:30.920] They want sort of more of a rough surface?
[36:30.920 -> 36:33.160] And are there places where they absolutely want
[36:33.160 -> 36:35.560] as smooth a surface as possible?
[36:35.560 -> 36:42.680] Well, you could also remember that as recent as I think it was 2016,
[36:42.680 -> 36:46.660] Mercedes were playing around with serrated trip strips on their
[36:46.660 -> 36:52.180] front and rear wings to be able to trip the boundary layer because that was at the point
[36:52.180 -> 36:58.260] of separation in that particular region. So yes, the teams might well be playing around
[36:58.260 -> 37:09.680] with having paint in certain areas of the car and certain, let's say, variants of paint in order to help with attachments and flow
[37:09.680 -> 37:10.680] over the car.
[37:10.680 -> 37:17.600] But it is such a tiny detail because we always get this question, don't we, about, oh, shouldn't
[37:17.600 -> 37:20.560] an F1 car have dimples on it like a golf ball?
[37:20.560 -> 37:25.760] Well, no, it shouldn't because that's Coandre effect and you're trying to disrupt
[37:25.760 -> 37:31.840] that side of things and do different things than you are with a Formula One car. But yeah,
[37:31.840 -> 37:32.720] as you mentioned...
[37:33.600 -> 37:38.240] I was just thinking, unless Maz's spin was driving it because then it's actually spinning
[37:38.240 -> 37:42.320] and the dimples will work the way they're intended, but that's... I may have to edit that out.
[37:47.440 -> 37:54.240] but that's, I may have to edit that out. It might stop a urine moment and turn the car around, yeah. But yeah, paint can obviously have some implications in terms of aero, but I do think
[37:54.240 -> 38:00.960] that there are marginal gains or marginal losses. But yeah, roughness of surface, etc. might be
[38:00.960 -> 38:06.160] beneficial in certain places on the car. All right, well Ray specifically would like
[38:06.160 -> 38:13.040] to know what is the one thing on the Haas car that you would change to improve it for 2023,
[38:13.040 -> 38:20.080] and you may not include drivers in that. Yeah, but they've already done that. I don't have to
[38:20.080 -> 38:25.580] change that. They've changed their lineup, So not that I would suggest that they've got
[38:25.580 -> 38:32.080] a better lineup or a worse lineup with their 2023 lineup compared to the 2022 lineup. I
[38:32.080 -> 38:41.400] would never roll in on Niko Hulkenberg versus Mick Schumacher. What would I change? That's
[38:41.400 -> 38:47.680] such a difficult one because the Haas car is underdeveloped if you compare it to
[38:47.680 -> 38:53.920] many of its rivals because of the loss. They don't have the money in comparison to their rivals.
[38:53.920 -> 38:59.120] They don't have the ability to bring the updates that their rivals do. They bought maybe two
[38:59.120 -> 39:07.160] upgrade packages in the course of 2022. And if you compare that to say what we did with Alpine, who bought maybe 18 upgrade packages,
[39:07.160 -> 39:08.800] how can you compete with that?
[39:08.800 -> 39:11.360] So the one upgrade or thing that I would change
[39:11.360 -> 39:16.040] to the Haas car for 2023 is give them a big bag of money.
[39:16.040 -> 39:18.720] Well, MoneyGram, they have a new sponsor
[39:18.720 -> 39:21.560] who may actually write checks that clear.
[39:21.560 -> 39:24.400] So perhaps we can look forward to that.
[39:24.400 -> 39:25.200] Fingers crossed.
[39:26.400 -> 39:29.680] John M. wants to know, what are all the engineers doing now?
[39:29.680 -> 39:34.160] Final assembly and startup, but what kinds of things would they be working on back at their
[39:34.160 -> 39:34.660] desks?
[39:36.000 -> 39:41.760] They are working on things in the future, because what I always find interesting about Formula 1
[39:41.760 -> 39:45.760] is that most people look at the now, but Formula One
[39:45.760 -> 39:52.560] doesn't operate in the now. It operates eight weeks from here, 12 weeks from here, 16 weeks from here.
[39:52.560 -> 39:58.720] There's projects that are ongoing all of the time. So we think of the finished article as,
[39:58.720 -> 40:06.000] oh, that's what we've got now. Well, no, because the cars are about to be launched. Those aren't
[40:06.000 -> 40:10.760] anywhere near the final representation that will be available for testing, which is literally
[40:10.760 -> 40:16.720] a week or so afterwards. The first race is then a week after that. So you have to have
[40:16.720 -> 40:22.400] a step in each package on the way to be able to increase the performance between what you
[40:22.400 -> 40:28.400] start with to where you are at the first race. And then obviously it's just a foot race from there onwards in terms of development.
[40:28.400 -> 40:35.600] So don't look at Formula One design as linear, because what you're looking at now is not
[40:35.600 -> 40:37.560] what the teams are working on now.
[40:37.560 -> 40:39.960] They're working into the future.
[40:39.960 -> 40:41.720] So it's kind of like looking at the stars.
[40:41.720 -> 40:45.900] You're seeing light from thousands and tens of thousands of years ago.
[40:45.900 -> 40:51.980] When we see a car on track, we're looking at engineers design from 6, 8, 12, 16 weeks
[40:51.980 -> 40:52.980] ago sometime.
[40:52.980 -> 40:53.980] That's right.
[40:53.980 -> 40:54.980] Yeah, yeah.
[40:54.980 -> 40:58.540] Because that's just how they have to operate, especially when you think about logistics,
[40:58.540 -> 41:00.500] another thing that people overlook.
[41:00.500 -> 41:06.000] Because if it's a flyaway race or how do those parts get shipped?
[41:06.000 -> 41:08.000] Well, there's a time frame, isn't there?
[41:08.000 -> 41:12.000] So those parts have already been made, I don't know, six weeks ago
[41:12.000 -> 41:15.500] before they got onto the freight to be shipped halfway around the world.
[41:15.500 -> 41:20.300] So it's a shell game that's hidden behind the rest of everything else.
[41:20.300 -> 41:22.300] So I know exactly what they're doing, John.
[41:22.300 -> 41:25.000] I'll tell you, the people responsible for
[41:25.000 -> 41:30.260] the production of the most fiddly parts of the car are ignoring daily emails from the
[41:30.260 -> 41:35.360] logistics manager about exactly when they can put it in a box and send it to Bahrain
[41:35.360 -> 41:37.920] because that's where it's got to go.
[41:37.920 -> 41:39.840] Yes, most definitely.
[41:39.840 -> 41:45.560] Oh, alright. And we have one more question from Padrock, which cleverly is disguised as two
[41:45.560 -> 41:47.280] entirely different questions.
[41:47.280 -> 41:51.000] I don't know where they got that format from.
[41:51.000 -> 41:55.720] First of all, given that the team mostly had Porpoisee under control by the end of last
[41:55.720 -> 42:00.520] year, are the rule tweaks brought in for this year unnecessary now?
[42:00.520 -> 42:02.280] I don't think so.
[42:02.280 -> 42:07.960] I think what the FIA did in the middle of the season kind of stopped
[42:07.960 -> 42:15.200] a lot of what the teams were attempting to do to resolve problems that were causing even
[42:15.200 -> 42:28.000] more problems. So what they did was essentially rein the teams in and take them on a leash and resolve that problem before we even got there.
[42:28.000 -> 42:32.320] I don't think they're unnecessary at all. But as I mentioned earlier, I think whatever
[42:32.320 -> 42:38.320] the FIA thought that these new regulations, i.e. the floor and the throat, etc., would do
[42:38.320 -> 42:42.960] in terms of performance will have already been gained back by the teams anyway. So it is kind
[42:42.960 -> 42:52.400] of irrelevant in that respect. Yeah, if I can add on to that, I think those regulations came about to keep the teams from
[42:52.400 -> 42:58.400] getting themselves into a place where they would be bouncing the drivers up and down unmanageably.
[42:58.400 -> 43:05.760] In the past, we've seen clever and more clever and more clever till it breaks and almost kills the driver.
[43:05.760 -> 43:10.000] And I think they just said, okay, we're just gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna raise that
[43:10.000 -> 43:13.600] basement a little bit so it no longer floods.
[43:13.600 -> 43:17.740] And however much advantage the teams want to take, we're not going to see that same
[43:17.740 -> 43:22.520] level of violence inflicted upon the driver's body.
[43:22.520 -> 43:30.760] Yeah, I'd run with that. Secondly, he asks, in a weird variation of the question I asked earlier, given that we
[43:30.760 -> 43:35.340] now have a budget cap in place, what's the point of a testing ban?
[43:35.340 -> 43:39.880] And I'm going to ask you, what is the point of a testing ban if there's also a budget
[43:39.880 -> 43:44.640] cap, aside from the fact that we know that the bigger teams can hire better accountants
[43:44.640 -> 43:49.000] and be more clever, so it probably will still advantage them more.
[43:49.000 -> 43:55.440] But assuming a level playing field, is there a point to a testing ban now that the actual
[43:55.440 -> 43:57.560] money you can spend has been restricted?
[43:57.560 -> 44:08.080] Yeah, I just think it prohibits the teams from making parts that are full scale and just testing things for
[44:08.080 -> 44:14.680] testing things sake, which is what used to happen back in the 80s, 90s, when you had
[44:14.680 -> 44:19.400] full blown test teams and things were flown around the world unnecessarily and all of
[44:19.400 -> 44:21.760] that sort of thing.
[44:21.760 -> 44:27.040] I get where Padrock is coming from in terms of, well, you've reined them in by saying that
[44:27.040 -> 44:32.240] you can only spend so much money, but we already know that there are ways around spending money
[44:32.240 -> 44:40.560] in Formula One. So we have to get those regulations a bit more rigid in many respects to prohibit
[44:40.560 -> 44:47.720] those sorts of things. But I'm not sure that testing is really the way to go. And I know that there's already talks for 2026 onwards
[44:47.720 -> 44:49.520] or maybe a little bit further into the future
[44:49.520 -> 44:52.040] that they're trying to stop wind tunnel usage as well.
[44:52.040 -> 44:55.240] You know, that's one of the area where teams spend
[44:55.240 -> 44:59.680] an inordinate amount of money is on wind tunnel testing.
[44:59.680 -> 45:01.840] So they're trying to obviously get to a point
[45:01.840 -> 45:08.000] where we go CFD only and test full-scale parts on cars rather
[45:08.000 -> 45:13.200] than having that interim wind tunnel usage. But again, I'm not convinced that that's the right
[45:13.200 -> 45:16.320] direction to go, but it is something that is being discussed at least.
[45:16.320 -> 45:23.040] Yeah. Well, you would always want to look at that for what is the most efficient way. And it seems
[45:23.040 -> 45:27.800] like to me, because the wind tunnel ban's been around for a while in terms of discussion.
[45:27.900 -> 45:38.880] I think it is isn't the newest of things but the problem is teams all use the different corners of CFD wind tunnel at track testing.
[45:39.020 -> 45:46.500] And simulation in different ways so you need to have a compromise that teams can use the way that works best for them.
[45:47.300 -> 45:49.500] Yeah, I mean that's always going to be the problem,
[45:49.500 -> 45:52.500] especially as you've already mentioned with the more well-funded
[45:52.500 -> 45:55.600] teams already have a massive head start on those below them
[45:55.600 -> 45:59.500] in that respect as well because for decades they've been ahead
[45:59.500 -> 46:02.600] in that respect and so they've already spent the money to get
[46:02.600 -> 46:05.720] to where they've got to and now everybody else has to spend more money
[46:05.720 -> 46:06.760] to catch them up.
[46:06.760 -> 46:10.200] And it's a bit of a meeting in the middle scenario.
[46:11.280 -> 46:12.920] I'm still not convinced that, as I say,
[46:12.920 -> 46:16.760] wind tunnel, a total wind tunnel ban is necessary.
[46:16.760 -> 46:19.220] I think what will actually happen,
[46:19.220 -> 46:21.420] because obviously Formula One always goes
[46:21.420 -> 46:22.460] for somewhere in the middle,
[46:22.460 -> 46:24.680] is we will see a massive cutback
[46:24.680 -> 46:29.840] in the amount of tunnel time that can be used in comparison to CFD. And that will be the middle ground that
[46:29.840 -> 46:35.920] will be found in order to placate whoever is looking to ban winner tunnels. All right. So
[46:35.920 -> 46:42.560] I'm going to wrap this up with Summer's Crystal Ball. Who are we betting on to do what at, not so
[46:42.560 -> 46:45.120] much at testing, but what do you see?
[46:48.180 -> 46:50.120] Um, what do you see happening at the beginning of the season? Is it going to be kind of like we ended?
[46:50.220 -> 46:52.000] Uh, is anyone going to make a stop?
[46:52.340 -> 46:54.560] Where do you like your just general sense of things?
[46:54.560 -> 46:56.640] I'm not going to hold you to these predictions.
[46:57.100 -> 46:57.320] Yeah.
[46:57.320 -> 47:00.260] Don't come back to me in 12 months time and say, Oh, look how wrong you were.
[47:00.280 -> 47:06.480] Um, I do think that Red Bull will go into the season with an advantage once again, because
[47:06.480 -> 47:13.680] obviously they've worked, their car was superior to everybody else's in every single facet of the
[47:13.680 -> 47:19.360] design side of things. And obviously they're also in a position now where they're going to have a
[47:19.360 -> 47:25.400] tyre that works for their particular number one driver that it didn't work last year.
[47:25.400 -> 47:27.280] And so they'll be able to dial the car in
[47:27.280 -> 47:29.340] and around that as well.
[47:29.340 -> 47:32.000] Where I do think that they may come a little bit more
[47:32.000 -> 47:36.680] unstuck is because of the penalties that they have accrued
[47:36.680 -> 47:38.600] in terms of CFD and wind tunnel
[47:38.600 -> 47:40.480] because of the cost cap breach.
[47:40.480 -> 47:45.000] And so that should technically allow Ferrari and Mercedes
[47:45.440 -> 47:50.280] to make some ground on them in that particular period
[47:50.280 -> 47:54.800] in the first six months of the next section
[47:54.800 -> 47:57.520] of wind tunnel and CFD time.
[47:57.520 -> 48:00.680] I think Alpine are gonna do a good job again.
[48:00.680 -> 48:02.200] They finished out the season well,
[48:02.200 -> 48:04.580] they developed the car well last season.
[48:04.580 -> 48:10.740] In terms of the rest of them, well, it's just a game of hopscotch between them really as
[48:10.740 -> 48:13.000] to who falls where.
[48:13.000 -> 48:17.400] But I do think that we might be in for some better racing throughout the course of next
[48:17.400 -> 48:19.360] season at the front end of the pack.
[48:19.360 -> 48:23.460] And then there's going to be a bit of a detachment once more until the other guys really start
[48:23.460 -> 48:25.280] to catch up to that pack again.
[48:28.960 -> 48:30.800] Excellent. Well, thank you so much. Before you go, tell us real quick, where can we find you and what are you up to?
[48:32.000 -> 48:37.440] You can find me on Twitter as usual, which is SummersF1. Obviously, my work going out on
[48:37.440 -> 48:44.080] motorsport and autosport. And obviously, all I do is play golf aside from that. So there we go.
[48:44.080 -> 48:45.680] Go read Summers's golf blog.
[48:45.680 -> 48:52.320] He's up to some interesting and much more technical stuff than you might think.
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[51:02.000 -> 51:19.600] PrizePix, daily fantasy sports made easy. And now, back to discuss more forbidden F1 fruit is F1 nerd!
[51:19.600 -> 51:22.440] And he says he's only a boring quality engineer, really.
[51:22.440 -> 51:29.320] And Dragontamer Kyle Power, who hasewritten my introduction when I wasn't looking because I called you something much more exciting my friend
[51:30.260 -> 51:34.040] Hey, Matt. Yes, you did. Indeed. I was not very comfortable
[51:34.040 -> 51:37.680] I tried to be modest if I can but I'm really not I loved it
[51:37.680 -> 51:40.320] But I thought I'd rewrite it just to be a bit mischievous. Yes
[51:40.320 -> 51:46.080] Well, you know, I don't go to extra lengths in my American-ness when I introduce my British
[51:46.080 -> 51:50.800] friends just to make them feel more awkward for content. I would never do that.
[51:50.800 -> 51:55.840] We're victims of it on a regular basis, but we love it.
[51:55.840 -> 52:00.080] Fair enough. So we're back to talk about forbidden F1 fruit. And the thing that interests me about
[52:00.080 -> 52:09.760] this conversation, and I do want you to talk about this because you are definitely the smart one in our group of two here, is that it comes out of that same era of ground
[52:09.760 -> 52:12.880] effect that our last conversations came out of.
[52:12.880 -> 52:17.320] Yeah, and the ground effect era is sort of a precursor to loads of massive technology
[52:17.320 -> 52:21.360] advancements in Formula One, and a lot of banned technology advancements in Formula
[52:21.360 -> 52:22.360] One.
[52:22.360 -> 52:25.680] So as you say, yeah, EBDs came from the ground effect era.
[52:25.680 -> 52:29.440] And this next technology we're going to talk about has been covered by an awful lot of people,
[52:29.440 -> 52:32.960] just about every man and his goldfish has done a video on this at some point, but there's still
[52:32.960 -> 52:38.400] somehow surprisingly a load of misconceptions and misinformation out there. And the actual story of
[52:38.400 -> 52:42.800] how this came about is really quite cool and much more longer and convoluted than a lot of people
[52:42.800 -> 52:45.200] maybe realize. So we'll do our best to unpick it.
[52:45.240 -> 52:48.760] And we are of course, talking about active suspension.
[52:49.480 -> 52:52.400] So what, why is active suspension so cool?
[52:52.840 -> 52:57.640] Well, to me, I will, I will give you the very simple answer from, from a layman's
[52:57.640 -> 53:02.640] point of view, which is to me, those cars were the most technologically
[53:02.680 -> 53:05.560] advanced Formula One cars ever produced.
[53:05.560 -> 53:09.960] And yes, I'm mindful of all the differentials and the MGUHs and this is and that's and the
[53:09.960 -> 53:11.480] others, but I don't care.
[53:11.480 -> 53:19.360] If we're talking about usable road car technology, nothing beats the peak of active ride height
[53:19.360 -> 53:20.360] control.
[53:20.360 -> 53:21.440] Oh, absolutely.
[53:21.440 -> 53:26.120] And there's some fantastic videos out there. We may even have one to
[53:26.120 -> 53:30.680] show you or in the description of these cars. So the active ride height control, when you
[53:30.680 -> 53:36.200] see a car's doing what we, well, what you could call a warmup routine, they're squatting.
[53:36.200 -> 53:39.480] It looks sort of superhuman. They're kind of doing their stretches and their squats
[53:39.480 -> 53:43.520] ready for the race is absolutely crazy. And we're thinking like this concept sort of comes
[53:43.520 -> 53:46.600] back from quite a while ago and the height of it and what everyone
[53:46.600 -> 53:49.120] thinks is the absolute height of it and was the birth really
[53:49.120 -> 53:52.760] use of it is in 92 and 1993 and some awesome videos there of
[53:52.760 -> 53:54.880] the cars controlling their ride height.
[53:54.880 -> 53:56.320] And yeah, you're right.
[53:56.320 -> 53:59.320] They're still kind of lauded as the most technologically
[53:59.320 -> 54:01.140] advanced cars of all time.
[54:01.140 -> 54:03.000] That's probably not true considering the current
[54:03.000 -> 54:08.800] technology we have now, but for the time and for the thing, it is absolutely incredible what they were doing. And just to have the vision
[54:08.800 -> 54:13.520] of implementing this and with the computer and electronic controls that is required,
[54:13.520 -> 54:17.600] not many people around were doing stuff like this. So this is why it's typical Formula One
[54:17.600 -> 54:21.520] fashion, super pioneering. And this is why we find it super, super exciting to talk about.
[54:21.520 -> 54:32.160] Currently, I call warm-up routine the wiggly dance. It's my spider just about to attack something dance. It looks quite haunting to me.
[54:32.160 -> 54:35.360] But yeah, if you go and check the video out on YouTube, it's really cool to see it,
[54:35.360 -> 54:39.600] to see it, see it, stress it stuff. Yeah, well, and let's get started on the history,
[54:39.600 -> 54:46.400] because the thing that I discovered and researching for this was that we're not really talking about,
[54:46.400 -> 54:51.760] if we go back to the historical starting point of this technology in Formula One,
[54:51.760 -> 54:53.920] we're not talking about Williams at all, are we?
[54:53.920 -> 54:56.240] Jason Vale No, not at all. So it didn't come from
[54:56.240 -> 55:01.840] Williams. And one of the misconceptions is everyone goes about the 14B and the 15C from
[55:01.840 -> 55:05.660] 1993, and it was the birth of active suspension, but yeah, you're completely right.
[55:05.660 -> 55:08.080] It was Lotus back in the early eighties.
[55:08.080 -> 55:10.380] And this is where it goes from the ground effect era.
[55:10.380 -> 55:13.320] So we've got Colin Chapman and is it Peter,
[55:13.320 -> 55:14.620] was it Peter Wright?
[55:14.620 -> 55:16.560] It was Peter Wright, yes.
[55:16.560 -> 55:17.400] Yes, yes.
[55:17.400 -> 55:18.920] One of his designers and they have obviously
[55:18.920 -> 55:22.360] is the ground effect era and they have,
[55:22.360 -> 55:24.560] they're having a problem with a strange phenomenon
[55:24.560 -> 55:26.160] called porpoising and bouncing
[55:26.160 -> 55:29.720] up and down, and they couldn't maximize their underfloor performance, really.
[55:29.720 -> 55:33.460] Does that sound familiar to anybody listening to this in recent times?
[55:33.460 -> 55:36.320] And hence, sort of half the reason why we're talking about this, this has been brought
[55:36.320 -> 55:37.320] up in recent times.
[55:37.320 -> 55:40.280] But yes, it was Lotus back in the very early eighties.
[55:40.280 -> 55:41.280] Yeah.
[55:41.280 -> 55:46.120] And brought up again, like it was brought up last season as a potential fix.
[55:46.120 -> 55:51.340] But once again, I think I heard Pat Simmons say that they're thinking about it again.
[55:51.340 -> 55:55.500] Active aerodynamics, though, I think they're talking more like a DRS kind of thing.
[55:55.500 -> 55:58.340] We're talking ride height control, aren't we?
[55:58.340 -> 55:59.340] Yes, absolutely.
[55:59.340 -> 56:04.280] But as we might allude to a bit later when we get into the later history of it, Active
[56:04.280 -> 56:09.360] almost gave us DRS in the first place, kind Active version of DRS, which we can explain a
[56:09.360 -> 56:16.400] little bit later. But back in the early 80s, so sort of 82, well, back in 77 really, it was Lotus
[56:17.680 -> 56:27.760] were working with... Who were they working with? They were working with, um, general motors? Um, I, it, they were working with general motors at, at one point,
[56:27.760 -> 56:33.280] but I think they were, um, specifically, um, oh yeah, you're talking about the road car though,
[56:33.280 -> 56:39.200] aren't you? Yeah. Um, yeah. Was it a Lotus Elite, right? I think so. Yes. So they were gathering a
[56:39.200 -> 56:43.600] lot of data and they're, and they're, and they're working with like a lot of partners and they're
[56:43.600 -> 56:45.480] basically trying to control ride height and they've got this problem and they're, and they're, and they're working with like a lot of partners and they're basically trying to control ride height and they've got this problem.
[56:45.480 -> 56:48.340] They're getting all these sensors and basically their car's bouncing and
[56:48.340 -> 56:51.080] porpoising because of the amount, the massive aerodynamic force they're
[56:51.080 -> 56:52.400] producing from underneath the car.
[56:52.440 -> 56:55.860] And the car gets into a horrible death wobble and they can't really cure it.
[56:55.940 -> 56:58.300] And back then the porpoising was worse back then.
[56:58.300 -> 56:59.920] It wasn't just the car bouncing up and down.
[56:59.920 -> 57:03.620] It was front to back porpoising as well, which the drivers could not control when
[57:03.620 -> 57:07.560] it happened and they basically just had to slam the brakes on when it happened, which obviously is not
[57:07.560 -> 57:09.900] good when you're trying to race.
[57:09.900 -> 57:16.360] So Peter Wright, they've gone to Cranfield University and they've hired a professor from
[57:16.360 -> 57:20.280] there to actually come and help them out and say, how do we solve this problem?
[57:20.280 -> 57:21.440] What's going on?
[57:21.440 -> 57:23.840] And so this professor, which is, is it David Williams?
[57:23.840 -> 57:24.840] It was David Williams.
[57:24.840 -> 57:28.720] Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Professor Williams, actually said to Peter Wright,
[57:28.720 -> 57:36.640] well, I'm actually working on a bit of an active control for aeroplane wings, and fly-by-wire,
[57:36.640 -> 57:40.880] so the pilot's still got some control. This problem looks like aeroflutter, so we're actually
[57:40.880 -> 57:45.840] working on some fluid springs and couplings. This could actually be a perfect solution for you.
[57:45.960 -> 57:50.200] And the seed was sown, which I thought was really, really interesting that they
[57:50.200 -> 57:52.080] didn't really necessarily come up with it themselves.
[57:52.200 -> 57:55.000] They've gone looking for help and somebody said, Oh, why don't you try this?
[57:55.000 -> 57:57.400] And we've already kind of started, but it might work for your application.
[57:57.880 -> 58:05.000] Yeah, it might work if they'd had computers from our century to work with.
[58:05.000 -> 58:12.160] But now, as I understand it, though, because Colin Chapman was still running Lotus at that
[58:12.160 -> 58:19.600] point—he was a designer—that immediately, they focused not just on controlling ride
[58:19.600 -> 58:27.600] height but also controlling things like tire wear and the driver. Like the driver's essentially comfort,
[58:27.600 -> 58:33.120] right? So this was a very complex undertaking. Oh, massively complex. And I think they were
[58:33.120 -> 58:37.840] basically, with most things, sort of Lotus and innovating in Formula One. They were way before
[58:37.840 -> 58:42.720] their time, and they've kind of stumbled upon a solution and tried to implement a solution,
[58:42.720 -> 58:51.480] which I just don't think they had the technology to do at the time. So Chapman wanted it for 1983. And at the end of 1982, he gave Peter
[58:51.480 -> 58:56.520] Wright a really impossible deadline to try to get this car on the road. And so, so they've
[58:56.520 -> 59:00.800] got, they've, they put an active system on a road car and then demonstrated it to Chapman.
[59:00.800 -> 59:03.800] He's given it the green light and then they got it on the race car. And what I didn't
[59:03.800 -> 59:06.680] realize, which is quite amazing, the first morning they took their
[59:06.680 -> 59:13.400] new active race car to run to a test in December in 1980, 1982 to run.
[59:13.400 -> 59:16.240] And it was that very morning, the first ever active car run was the actual morning that
[59:16.240 -> 59:20.240] Colin Chapman died, which I didn't know when I was doing the research.
[59:20.240 -> 59:23.240] So he never actually got to see the active car running, even though it was him who's
[59:23.240 -> 59:24.240] pushing it through.
[59:24.240 -> 59:29.280] Yeah. And I think just to correct a thing, it was an Esprit, not an Elite, that was
[59:29.280 -> 59:36.560] their test car, and I think GM came in later in 86 and 87, which we'll get to when we get to it.
[59:36.560 -> 59:45.000] But it very much, I think, put a stake in the heart of this effort
[59:45.040 -> 59:49.840] because their name driver, Nigel Mansell,
[59:49.840 -> 59:53.040] was absolutely not a fan for a couple of,
[59:53.040 -> 59:54.540] I think, valid reasons.
[59:54.540 -> 59:59.540] Yes, so they bought the Active Car in 83 to Grand Prix
[01:00:01.320 -> 01:00:04.840] that Mansell drove in and he didn't like it.
[01:00:04.840 -> 01:00:08.120] Now, there's a really important thing we need to note here in 83.
[01:00:08.520 -> 01:00:11.120] Notice we're running two cars, but they weren't the same cars.
[01:00:11.520 -> 01:00:16.620] Elliot DeAngelis had, this is in the, had, um, had a better car than him.
[01:00:16.620 -> 01:00:20.760] And I think Mansell was trying to, Mansell wanted his teammates car
[01:00:21.020 -> 01:00:25.200] basically, and, and he was in an actually aspirated car and not a turbo car.
[01:00:25.220 -> 01:00:26.960] So the car wasn't very good anyway.
[01:00:26.960 -> 01:00:30.560] And Mansell had it for two races with this active system.
[01:00:30.780 -> 01:00:32.700] Didn't like it, was completely against it.
[01:00:32.700 -> 01:00:36.000] And basically said it sucked power from the engine and it didn't really help me.
[01:00:36.800 -> 01:00:40.760] I hate it, but actually don't think that it was the active that was so bad.
[01:00:40.760 -> 01:00:43.880] The car proved to be a bit of a dog when they actually stuck a good engine in it.
[01:00:44.360 -> 01:00:44.680] Yeah.
[01:00:44.680 -> 01:00:50.920] Well, you left out it added weight because those control systems that were needed to
[01:00:50.920 -> 01:00:56.820] manage it, and we should probably just say real quick that they were using this essentially
[01:00:56.820 -> 01:01:00.240] in lieu of standard dampers, weren't they?
[01:01:00.240 -> 01:01:01.240] Yeah, yeah.
[01:01:01.240 -> 01:01:02.240] So they've tried to go full active.
[01:01:02.240 -> 01:01:08.580] So they've tried to get rid of springs and dampers and just use hydraulics to do the suspension. Now this is actually way more
[01:01:08.580 -> 01:01:13.560] advanced than what other teams did later on when people think of active suspension, other
[01:01:13.560 -> 01:01:16.780] teams sort of didn't, which we'll get onto, but Lotus were trying to do the full caboodle.
[01:01:16.780 -> 01:01:20.060] They were trying to get rid of the springs. They were trying to control the ride height
[01:01:20.060 -> 01:01:23.580] and are trying to do all of this and program all of this with the very limited computing
[01:01:23.580 -> 01:01:26.880] power they had at the time. So of course there was going to be hiccups. I just think it was
[01:01:27.440 -> 01:01:32.240] far, far too ambitious, but amazing vision and amazing that they even tried it. So you would
[01:01:32.240 -> 01:01:36.080] have thought that they found this amazing new system that they'd run it and they'd be constantly
[01:01:36.080 -> 01:01:41.200] running it, but they didn't. They took it back off the car again and it disappeared until 1987.
[01:01:41.200 -> 01:01:43.680] Chris Reilly Yeah. And I got to say, you know,
[01:01:43.680 -> 01:01:45.760] there's a part of me that understands
[01:01:45.760 -> 01:01:51.700] that because from a weight and performance point of view, I don't think it was possible
[01:01:51.700 -> 01:01:55.740] because when you talk about power, I mean, you're literally talking about the engine
[01:01:55.740 -> 01:02:00.920] generating enough electrical power to run the computer and the sensors and all the other
[01:02:00.920 -> 01:02:05.840] things that need to be run with electricity, they weren't producing enough of it.
[01:02:05.840 -> 01:02:12.880] It was too heavy for the cars at the time. And then also, there's that little matter of cost.
[01:02:12.880 -> 01:02:18.720] So I think with the loss of Chapman, who was visionary enough to have yelled at people and
[01:02:18.720 -> 01:02:25.760] made it work, and he said, we don't need a chassis. We'll just have this instead. It'll be safe.
[01:02:25.760 -> 01:02:26.760] He would say.
[01:02:26.760 -> 01:02:31.140] Um, you know, he would have found the weight saving somewhere perhaps to, to make it balance
[01:02:31.140 -> 01:02:36.840] out better, but without it, the, I don't know who was running the team at the time
[01:02:36.840 -> 01:02:41.320] simply said, this is way too much of a distraction for very little payoff.
[01:02:41.320 -> 01:02:44.320] And I don't even think they were wrong about it at that point.
[01:02:44.320 -> 01:02:47.760] No, it was just again before it time, and they didn't have...
[01:02:47.760 -> 01:02:50.560] Yeah, and it was sucking power from the engine, actual horsepower.
[01:02:50.560 -> 01:02:54.720] It was draining about 10 to 15 horsepower, I think, out from the engine to drive the
[01:02:54.720 -> 01:02:56.480] hydraulic pumps as well.
[01:02:56.480 -> 01:03:00.400] And also, we're talking about, yeah, electricity power, but they just don't have...
[01:03:00.400 -> 01:03:01.760] This is in the turbo era as well.
[01:03:01.760 -> 01:03:05.800] So all the focus was, with the primitive sort of computing
[01:03:05.800 -> 01:03:09.240] at the time was to maximize the fuel efficiency
[01:03:09.240 -> 01:03:10.180] of the turbo engine.
[01:03:10.180 -> 01:03:11.560] So there wasn't actually much,
[01:03:11.560 -> 01:03:13.800] literally there weren't actually many bits left
[01:03:13.800 -> 01:03:16.200] to actually be able to calculate stuff and run this system.
[01:03:16.200 -> 01:03:18.180] So it's far, far before its time.
[01:03:18.180 -> 01:03:19.960] And it's not really back then,
[01:03:19.960 -> 01:03:23.000] we're not talking full digital systems either.
[01:03:23.000 -> 01:03:27.440] This is quite primitive sort of computing comparatively at the time.
[01:03:27.440 -> 01:03:30.160] So yeah, you can completely understand why they take it off the card.
[01:03:30.160 -> 01:03:32.440] They're just like, this is too radical and too advanced.
[01:03:32.440 -> 01:03:36.200] But what I find surprising when I've been looking through this is it makes a return,
[01:03:36.200 -> 01:03:37.920] goes away and it makes some returns again.
[01:03:37.920 -> 01:03:43.960] So in 1987 Lotus then bring their active system back to the car and they've got it a bit more
[01:03:43.960 -> 01:03:46.760] refined now and it actually starts to work pretty well.
[01:03:46.760 -> 01:03:52.280] Yeah, and none other than Ayrton Senna, I think, used it to win a race or two.
[01:03:52.280 -> 01:03:56.040] Yes, it was a Monaco and Detroit, was it not?
[01:03:56.040 -> 01:03:58.480] And what are Monaco and Detroit?
[01:03:58.480 -> 01:03:59.480] What have they got in common?
[01:03:59.480 -> 01:04:02.840] Well, they're street tracks and they're incredibly bumpy.
[01:04:02.840 -> 01:04:07.200] Yes, and this is where absolutely worked where proactive really
[01:04:07.200 -> 01:04:10.280] sort of paid off and their system, you know, they were
[01:04:10.280 -> 01:04:13.360] trying to do sort of full active and basically trying to almost
[01:04:13.360 -> 01:04:14.680] try to program the car.
[01:04:15.120 -> 01:04:16.080] There isn't any learning.
[01:04:16.080 -> 01:04:17.880] There wasn't really AI or learning at the time or
[01:04:17.880 -> 01:04:18.120] anything.
[01:04:18.120 -> 01:04:20.600] They, you know, you had to tell computers exactly everything
[01:04:20.600 -> 01:04:21.640] that you wanted them to do.
[01:04:21.640 -> 01:04:24.320] So I feel really sorry for the engineers and mechanics turning
[01:04:24.320 -> 01:04:25.240] up to a new track and a
[01:04:25.240 -> 01:04:30.400] bumpy track, basically, and it's been, oh man, I've got to try to let you program every
[01:04:30.400 -> 01:04:31.400] millimeter of this track.
[01:04:31.400 -> 01:04:36.320] And it couldn't have been too, too easy to do, but they got it to work and it was working.
[01:04:36.320 -> 01:04:39.400] And Senna, you know, to the point that at Monaco, they're very famous.
[01:04:39.400 -> 01:04:42.760] They had manual gear shifts at the time and Senna wasn't even taping his hands for the
[01:04:42.760 -> 01:04:43.760] gear shifts.
[01:04:43.760 -> 01:04:47.440] Apparently, apparently he was, he was actually enjoying the ride because Lotus have focused on
[01:04:47.440 -> 01:04:50.960] the ride as well. So he was having a nice sort of cushioned ride where the other ride
[01:04:50.960 -> 01:04:56.640] drivers are being battered about. So it seemed to work really well in 87, but also in 87,
[01:04:56.640 -> 01:05:00.960] because they brought it in 83, other teams were starting to cotton on to the idea and
[01:05:00.960 -> 01:05:03.360] Williams had a bit of a different approach to it.
[01:05:03.440 -> 01:05:04.000] idea and Williams had a bit of a different approach to it.
[01:05:08.360 -> 01:05:12.720] Yeah, they did. Whereas Lotus was looking at like two or three different axes of control with this system. Williams was like,
[01:05:13.080 -> 01:05:17.360] we don't care about our drivers. We don't care about the tires,
[01:05:17.400 -> 01:05:21.040] because the tires. All right, sorry, pigeonhole me if you
[01:05:21.040 -> 01:05:26.240] want. The quote about Senna is that he used that system to set the car up to
[01:05:26.240 -> 01:05:31.280] look after its tires better than anyone else and that's why he won those races.
[01:05:31.280 -> 01:05:34.960] They didn't care about the tires, did Williams though. They didn't care about the drivers,
[01:05:34.960 -> 01:05:40.240] bounce them around all you want, we'll get more, they're cheap. No, Williams only cared about
[01:05:40.240 -> 01:05:49.200] one thing and that was optimal ride height for aerodynamics. And this is a really interesting point. There's a little side point here where we can explain it
[01:05:49.200 -> 01:05:54.520] because we've had a few cases in modern history a bit like this. So everyone thinks all the
[01:05:54.520 -> 01:05:58.760] designers are just basically trying to get peak downforce and maximum downforce, but that's not
[01:05:58.760 -> 01:06:03.120] really true. They're trying to get the most downforce they can get consistently. So it's
[01:06:03.120 -> 01:06:05.400] with almost like the difference
[01:06:05.400 -> 01:06:07.320] between a four-stroke engine and a two-stroke.
[01:06:07.320 -> 01:06:09.400] A two-stroke makes all its power in a very narrow band,
[01:06:09.400 -> 01:06:10.480] but you have to keep it in there,
[01:06:10.480 -> 01:06:11.920] otherwise it's pretty useless.
[01:06:11.920 -> 01:06:13.440] Whereas a four-stroke will make power
[01:06:13.440 -> 01:06:15.080] all the way across the rev range.
[01:06:15.080 -> 01:06:19.040] So they, so engineers, like if they go aerodynamicists,
[01:06:19.040 -> 01:06:20.240] if they get peak downforce,
[01:06:20.240 -> 01:06:21.280] they'll get something called, yeah,
[01:06:21.280 -> 01:06:22.280] really peaky downforce,
[01:06:22.280 -> 01:06:23.840] where they can produce loads of downforce,
[01:06:23.840 -> 01:06:28.000] but in a very specific scenario. And the car has to be in a perfect attitude to the road
[01:06:28.000 -> 01:06:32.160] and very very you know all the parameters have to line up and then they'll produce peak downforce
[01:06:32.160 -> 01:06:36.480] but if they're not if they're outside of any of these parameters the car won't work properly and
[01:06:36.480 -> 01:06:41.440] that's peaky aerodynamics and there is no way to do this so there is no way to ensure the car's in
[01:06:41.440 -> 01:06:46.840] the perfect position all the time so you have to then design less efficient aerodynamics, which cause more drag,
[01:06:47.000 -> 01:06:51.100] less peak, less peak downforce, but you can achieve that consistently.
[01:06:51.400 -> 01:06:55.740] So there was never a lot, really a Holy Grail, but what Active can do,
[01:06:56.040 -> 01:06:59.140] Active can allow some teams like Williams who are thinking, well, hang on a minute.
[01:06:59.140 -> 01:07:02.540] If we can just focus on ride height and closely control that ride height,
[01:07:02.840 -> 01:07:08.880] we can design really, really peaky aerodynamics that only operate in a very narrow window because we can keep the
[01:07:08.880 -> 01:07:09.960] car in that window.
[01:07:09.960 -> 01:07:13.360] And that's the solution they took, which is genius when you think about it.
[01:07:13.360 -> 01:07:17.400] They're like, we don't care about all of the pleasantries and the other stuff, but this
[01:07:17.400 -> 01:07:20.520] is going to basically take the leashes off our aerodynamicists.
[01:07:20.520 -> 01:07:24.360] And it's very, very clever the way they've gone about it.
[01:07:24.360 -> 01:07:27.860] And their system in 87, it's quite funny how it has come about.
[01:07:27.860 -> 01:07:28.960] Cause this came off a road car.
[01:07:28.960 -> 01:07:29.460] Did it not?
[01:07:29.840 -> 01:07:30.240] Yeah.
[01:07:30.260 -> 01:07:35.880] You could essentially say that one of the winningest cars of that season.
[01:07:36.360 -> 01:07:39.400] One with the suspension from a Ford Granada.
[01:07:41.700 -> 01:07:42.420] It's crazy.
[01:07:42.520 -> 01:07:46.940] So there's this company automotive products who were developing, yeah.
[01:07:46.960 -> 01:07:49.200] Um, ride height control for Ford Granada.
[01:07:49.200 -> 01:07:51.400] Why you'd want a ride height control on a Ford Granada.
[01:07:51.400 -> 01:07:52.440] I do not know.
[01:07:52.440 -> 01:07:54.080] They're fighting with Citroen for that.
[01:07:54.480 -> 01:07:59.240] That ride where you can pour champagne and drink it on the road and you
[01:07:59.240 -> 01:08:02.780] don't, nothing spills, I suppose with the Ford Granada, I'd be driving it down
[01:08:02.780 -> 01:08:04.400] the four boys to go and get your side.
[01:08:04.400 -> 01:08:05.520] I mean, it's like the Rolls Royce.
[01:08:05.520 -> 01:08:11.080] I just can't imagine why they would, but it was the eighties, you know, everything needs
[01:08:11.080 -> 01:08:13.000] to be turbo or flashy or cool.
[01:08:13.000 -> 01:08:18.120] So I guess why, but automotive products were not going to continue their system and they
[01:08:18.120 -> 01:08:23.040] were already working and supplying, I think it was some brake components to Williams.
[01:08:23.040 -> 01:08:29.640] And rather than just bury the system, they've actually gone to Williams and say, Hey, we've got this system, would you maybe want to use it? And
[01:08:29.640 -> 01:08:35.120] then Williams just like, hello, that's nice. And they almost took their identical system
[01:08:35.120 -> 01:08:39.320] from that. They hardly changed it. It was really simple. There was no computer controls.
[01:08:39.320 -> 01:08:43.920] They've not tried to control all the corners and replace all the springs like Lotus did.
[01:08:43.920 -> 01:08:48.760] The Williams cars, essentially it sprung, they've essentially put a hydraulic actuator
[01:08:48.760 -> 01:08:52.800] on the end of the wishbone and they can just control the ride height very closely.
[01:08:52.800 -> 01:08:57.320] And this again, very hard to program and very hard to start getting it right because they
[01:08:57.320 -> 01:08:58.320] couldn't really program it.
[01:08:58.320 -> 01:09:01.800] But this is a full, this is a full, what they call reactive car.
[01:09:01.800 -> 01:09:05.600] So it was a passive, almost a passive car and reactive. So a bump would
[01:09:05.600 -> 01:09:12.840] hit and just by the flow of hydraulic fluid from the reaction of one bump, it can change the ride
[01:09:12.840 -> 01:09:17.280] height of the car and another, and it worked quite well. Yeah, I mean really the only thing that was
[01:09:17.280 -> 01:09:21.960] active on this system, I don't even think it had control software. The only thing it was active
[01:09:21.960 -> 01:09:29.400] were the, were the, some of the valves themselves valves themselves were actively managed. But I think that was mainly in response to
[01:09:29.400 -> 01:09:33.720] inputs from from the car. Basically all four corners of the car could talk to
[01:09:33.720 -> 01:09:40.080] each other through this hydraulic system. And what I love about this is that, you
[01:09:40.080 -> 01:09:46.080] know, and it says in one of the articles articles it essentially they set it up so that it it high
[01:09:46.080 -> 01:09:51.440] speed stuff they just ignored it and in the low speed stuff it would control the attitude of the
[01:09:51.440 -> 01:09:57.520] car and the corners so it was kind of like an audio low-pass filter for the car but it only
[01:09:57.520 -> 01:10:09.800] operated by essentially lengthening or shortening the push rods at the front and the rear. That's all there was to it. And in that sense, it also reminds me a lot of Frick front rear
[01:10:09.800 -> 01:10:12.520] interconnected that Mercedes developed much later on.
[01:10:12.960 -> 01:10:15.320] Yes, this, this is essentially Frick.
[01:10:15.320 -> 01:10:18.000] This is the first Frick and I'm sure that's where Mercedes and
[01:10:18.000 -> 01:10:19.400] people drew inspiration from.
[01:10:19.400 -> 01:10:20.760] This is the first Frick.
[01:10:20.840 -> 01:10:23.240] Um, it's, I said, it's not, it's not controlled.
[01:10:23.240 -> 01:10:24.520] You're not telling it what to do.
[01:10:24.520 -> 01:10:29.000] Essentially. It's powered. You've got pressure in the system and it's a powered hydraulic system, but it
[01:10:29.000 -> 01:10:34.760] works reactionary and it's really, really clever. So Williams and 87 did this and started,
[01:10:34.760 -> 01:10:38.080] actually, they, they won some races. So I think they, they won a few races.
[01:10:38.080 -> 01:10:41.320] Nine race wins. Three of them were the active ones.
[01:10:41.320 -> 01:10:45.520] Wow. And the active car, the first one was a Monza, was it not? It was a Petraeus.
[01:10:45.520 -> 01:10:45.840] Yes.
[01:10:45.840 -> 01:10:46.400] Petraeus.
[01:10:46.400 -> 01:10:47.440] It was a Petraeus Monza.
[01:10:47.440 -> 01:10:47.920] P.K.
[01:10:47.920 -> 01:10:48.240] P.K.
[01:10:48.240 -> 01:10:48.480] Sorry.
[01:10:48.480 -> 01:10:48.720] P.K.
[01:10:48.720 -> 01:10:49.440] Yeah.
[01:10:49.440 -> 01:10:49.600] Yeah.
[01:10:49.600 -> 01:10:51.520] Are you going to tell the Mansell story?
[01:10:51.520 -> 01:10:53.840] Yeah, I was going to say, but guess who was driving the other car?
[01:10:54.400 -> 01:10:54.960] Yes.
[01:10:54.960 -> 01:10:55.200] Yes.
[01:10:55.920 -> 01:11:00.160] Our Nigel, the great advocate against active suspension.
[01:11:01.360 -> 01:11:03.680] I never met a technology update that I liked.
[01:11:04.240 -> 01:11:06.840] Here I sit with my Windows 95 computer.
[01:11:06.840 -> 01:11:07.840] Yeah.
[01:11:07.840 -> 01:11:13.360] And as soon as Nigel saw, saw PK winning this, obviously it was like, I must have one of
[01:11:13.360 -> 01:11:14.360] these now.
[01:11:14.360 -> 01:11:19.400] And Williams scrabbled around almost overnight and built him an active car, scrabbling around
[01:11:19.400 -> 01:11:21.240] late nights for the very next race.
[01:11:21.240 -> 01:11:22.240] Yeah.
[01:11:22.240 -> 01:11:23.440] He wanted one himself.
[01:11:23.440 -> 01:11:29.120] For the history fans, that would be the FW11B that we're talking about in 1987.
[01:11:30.080 -> 01:11:37.520] But it's funny to see how much more successful they were with it than Lotus was. I mean,
[01:11:37.520 -> 01:11:46.240] Lotus won two with Senna, they won three between their two different drivers, but it seemed like a system that, because
[01:11:46.240 -> 01:11:50.300] it was simpler, was actually much more effective.
[01:11:50.300 -> 01:11:56.680] They focused on doing the one thing that was most important very well, instead of trying
[01:11:56.680 -> 01:12:00.560] to do a multiple of different things all in one system.
[01:12:00.560 -> 01:12:03.720] And I'm sure that that has other implications as well.
[01:12:03.720 -> 01:12:04.720] Absolutely.
[01:12:04.720 -> 01:12:08.840] There's a saying in engineering or when you're designing or trying to make something, and
[01:12:08.840 -> 01:12:12.560] that's an acronym of KISS, which is keep it simple, stupid.
[01:12:12.560 -> 01:12:15.560] So just keep things stupid, simple, not stupid, keep things simple.
[01:12:15.560 -> 01:12:16.560] Keep things stupid, simple.
[01:12:16.560 -> 01:12:22.240] So just keep things simple and do them well, and you should be all right.
[01:12:22.240 -> 01:12:26.760] So in 87, Williams have cottoned on, and it looks like they've got a really good direction
[01:12:26.760 -> 01:12:27.760] for this.
[01:12:27.760 -> 01:12:32.000] Lotus, amazingly, after doing a lot of the groundwork and the hard work, and therefore
[01:12:32.000 -> 01:12:36.240] they're much more advanced, their full active system, amazingly, due to some political and
[01:12:36.240 -> 01:12:40.400] money problems, decide to drop using active suspension for 88.
[01:12:40.400 -> 01:12:45.280] And they drop it until 1991 or two, I believe, which I find incredible.
[01:12:45.280 -> 01:12:52.160] Yeah, well, but this is... it's not only incredible, but if you look subsequently at the
[01:12:52.720 -> 01:12:59.600] trajectory of that Lotus team, because Williams too, and I find this interesting for very different
[01:12:59.600 -> 01:13:08.640] reasons, did not have it on their 88 car. Had Lotus persisted, they would have had a Mercedes-like
[01:13:09.200 -> 01:13:16.320] in 2014 advantage with this suspension system that could have brought them sponsors and money
[01:13:16.320 -> 01:13:24.000] to keep going. But instead, it was too expensive, it was too complicated, and it's much cheaper
[01:13:24.560 -> 01:13:27.680] just to build a light car with an engine in
[01:13:27.680 -> 01:13:28.680] it that we can afford.
[01:13:28.680 -> 01:13:29.680] Absolutely.
[01:13:29.680 -> 01:13:32.000] And it's a bit of a travesty there.
[01:13:32.000 -> 01:13:36.400] So, you know, depending on what you read or you listen to, some people said that could
[01:13:36.400 -> 01:13:41.680] be like the downturn of Lotus and the start of the decline of Lotus.
[01:13:41.680 -> 01:13:50.000] And there's some comments in some articles that said Senna sort of left Lotus and he knew they were dropping Active and didn't agree to drop Active.
[01:13:50.000 -> 01:13:53.880] But it's the way it goes, politics and obviously money drive Formula One and that was the way
[01:13:53.880 -> 01:13:54.880] they went.
[01:13:54.880 -> 01:13:55.880] And it was a shame.
[01:13:55.880 -> 01:14:00.920] But Williams, Williams actually did have Active on their car for 88, but they made a bit of
[01:14:00.920 -> 01:14:01.920] a gaffe.
[01:14:01.920 -> 01:14:04.480] They've managed to gaffe it, because it was quite successful in 87.
[01:14:04.480 -> 01:14:09.440] So they put it on an 88, but then had a major problem with their oil reservoir. And they didn't realize this
[01:14:09.440 -> 01:14:13.360] until the end. So they said the car would work beautifully for three, four laps and be absolutely
[01:14:13.360 -> 01:14:17.600] rapid and then get slower. And they didn't know why. And they had a dodgy oil reservoir, which
[01:14:17.600 -> 01:14:22.640] was letting air into the system. So they had a traumatic, horrible 88 with loads of problems
[01:14:22.640 -> 01:14:25.280] with their active system, and then actually
[01:14:25.280 -> 01:14:30.120] dropped it off the car for 89, 90, and then brought it back right at the end again of
[01:14:30.120 -> 01:14:31.120] 91.
[01:14:31.120 -> 01:14:35.440] So Active sort of disappeared from Formula One, again, because just things weren't aligning,
[01:14:35.440 -> 01:14:37.000] it was expensive, and it weren't quite there.
[01:14:37.000 -> 01:14:40.400] But it was kind of a proven concept by now in the shape of Williams.
[01:14:40.400 -> 01:14:43.240] So it's amazing it goes away.
[01:14:43.240 -> 01:14:47.520] You say that, but if I'm a midfield team and I look at what happens to Williams in 88 and
[01:14:47.520 -> 01:14:52.520] I look at what happens to Lotus, I think to myself, nothing but trouble down that road
[01:14:52.520 -> 01:14:54.800] lies for me with a smaller budget.
[01:14:54.800 -> 01:14:56.280] Yeah, that's quite true.
[01:14:56.280 -> 01:14:57.280] It's a very good point.
[01:14:57.280 -> 01:14:58.520] I hadn't thought about that actually.
[01:14:58.520 -> 01:14:59.520] Yeah.
[01:14:59.520 -> 01:15:02.160] They're just like, well, both of these teams have run it and now they're both really having
[01:15:02.160 -> 01:15:04.760] some major problems, but it's good.
[01:15:04.760 -> 01:15:06.520] So it looks so basic.
[01:15:06.520 -> 01:15:11.380] It disappears again from Formula One and then comes back again right at the end of 91.
[01:15:11.380 -> 01:15:16.180] But this time, now at the end of the 80s, we're in 91, computer technology has moved
[01:15:16.180 -> 01:15:18.800] on a lot by this point.
[01:15:18.800 -> 01:15:21.840] And now they have the ability to control an awful lot more.
[01:15:21.840 -> 01:15:26.000] But again, Williams take a fairly simplistic approach with their
[01:15:26.000 -> 01:15:27.000] FW.
[01:15:27.000 -> 01:15:31.360] Um, I think it was, yeah, it was the FW 14 91, which is already really well.
[01:15:31.360 -> 01:15:33.720] And then it was 14 for the original 91.
[01:15:33.720 -> 01:15:34.720] Yeah.
[01:15:34.720 -> 01:15:37.120] And then it was the 14 B that they made and they put the active on right at the end.
[01:15:37.120 -> 01:15:38.760] And actually it works really well.
[01:15:38.760 -> 01:15:45.000] And now actually the FW 15, which is the 93 car was originally scheduled to race in 92.
[01:15:45.000 -> 01:15:49.740] But the FW14B, when they put it on the test track with the active suspension, again, which
[01:15:49.740 -> 01:15:53.680] they're focusing on, and this is when Adrian Newey came into the team as well.
[01:15:53.680 -> 01:15:56.060] So they've got Adrian Newey to repackage everything.
[01:15:56.060 -> 01:16:00.480] And they've basically given him a free license of we can control the ride height really well.
[01:16:00.480 -> 01:16:04.740] So you can go and chase that peaky, peaky goodness of your downforce.
[01:16:04.740 -> 01:16:06.000] You can go and you can
[01:16:06.000 -> 01:16:10.400] basically drown yourself into some dirty downforce. So you don't have to care if it's not very
[01:16:11.440 -> 01:16:14.320] controllable or consistent because we can control the ride height. And they basically,
[01:16:14.320 -> 01:16:18.800] so an under leash stage in Nuri produced an amazing aerodynamic package for the car.
[01:16:19.360 -> 01:16:24.880] And the 14B was so successful that they didn't need to run the 15 at all in 92. They bought it in,
[01:16:24.260 -> 01:16:24.320] The 14B was so successful that they didn't need to run the 15 at all in 92.
[01:16:25.020 -> 01:16:25.680] They bought it in.
[01:16:25.880 -> 01:16:31.000] Yeah. The FW14B, which everyone thinks is like the Faba and the sort of, the sort of
[01:16:31.000 -> 01:16:34.000] birth of active, not everyone, but a lot of people seem to think, you know, if you,
[01:16:34.180 -> 01:16:38.400] you can go online and most people Lord, the 14B is the sort of first active car.
[01:16:38.400 -> 01:16:39.860] And again, this was quite a simple.
[01:16:40.340 -> 01:16:40.780] System.
[01:16:40.780 -> 01:16:42.300] They weren't individually controlling.
[01:16:42.300 -> 01:16:43.600] It was a normally sprung car.
[01:16:43.600 -> 01:16:47.520] They still had springs and dampers. They were just controlling the ride height really well again.
[01:16:47.520 -> 01:16:48.520] Yeah.
[01:16:48.520 -> 01:16:51.880] And just doing it really well. And this time they can control it on much more areas of
[01:16:51.880 -> 01:16:52.880] the car.
[01:16:52.880 -> 01:17:02.040] The big difference is you now have an electronics control unit programmed to take sensor inputs
[01:17:02.040 -> 01:17:06.320] and then dispense correct outputs to the various corners of the car.
[01:17:06.320 -> 01:17:12.240] So it's still not, it's not like there's a control on each corner of the car. It
[01:17:12.240 -> 01:17:16.840] ran through the ECU and it was a pretty simple hydraulic system. I think there
[01:17:16.840 -> 01:17:21.480] were three control valves and some crossover pipes to run it. But what made
[01:17:21.480 -> 01:17:26.280] it work was Williams cleverly said, well, we want to get into these
[01:17:26.280 -> 01:17:31.560] newfangled computers and who's better at newfangled computers than people who've just wandered
[01:17:31.560 -> 01:17:36.480] out of a college and they hired none other than Paddy Lowe to write the software.
[01:17:36.480 -> 01:17:40.560] Yeah, which is, which is amazing. So they've, so they're doing, and they could do all of
[01:17:40.560 -> 01:17:44.560] this in house. They could do their own hydraulic controls and their own electronic controls
[01:17:44.560 -> 01:17:48.960] in house with their own super geek. He's just come out of uni with a brain full
[01:17:48.960 -> 01:17:52.800] of knowledge in this new sort of area. And again, not many people doing stuff like this.
[01:17:52.800 -> 01:17:58.760] This is quite sort of groundbreaking. And so Low Set's about writing all these algorithms
[01:17:58.760 -> 01:18:03.000] for different bits of the track and the code and the software to start running it. And
[01:18:03.000 -> 01:18:07.680] it starts to get quite complicated. So the 14B had a few gizmos on it,
[01:18:07.680 -> 01:18:09.480] but it was not quite the 93 car
[01:18:09.480 -> 01:18:10.720] where they really went to town with it.
[01:18:10.720 -> 01:18:12.420] But the 14B had a couple of really,
[01:18:12.420 -> 01:18:14.560] really cool little gizmos in 92.
[01:18:14.560 -> 01:18:17.240] And one of them was, as we alluded to earlier,
[01:18:17.240 -> 01:18:20.480] probably the first sort of almost version of DRS,
[01:18:20.480 -> 01:18:25.200] which was made possible by the active suspension bit.
[01:18:25.200 -> 01:18:29.840] And I believe, I don't know whether to believe this or not, but I think they discovered it
[01:18:29.840 -> 01:18:34.840] at Paul Ricard, where they could drop the rear of the car really low on the straight
[01:18:34.840 -> 01:18:38.360] and it was stalled a diffuser, which then would in turn stall the rear wing as well,
[01:18:38.360 -> 01:18:41.240] which would give him a nice big boost of straight line speed.
[01:18:41.240 -> 01:18:43.640] So I think Mansell had a button on his steering wheel.
[01:18:43.640 -> 01:18:44.640] Yeah.
[01:18:44.640 -> 01:18:49.520] I've heard that it was maybe a leak, and they started looking at the telemetry
[01:18:49.520 -> 01:18:54.220] and realized that when the rear was low, they were much faster down the straight, because
[01:18:54.220 -> 01:18:58.160] obviously with the stall, you reduce drag. And then they said, well, geez, what if we
[01:18:58.160 -> 01:19:02.400] just did that on purpose every time we were on a straight? Could we put a button on the
[01:19:02.400 -> 01:19:11.440] steering wheel for that? And the answer is yes. In fact, they could do that, and they did do that, and it was one of the reasons that the car was so
[01:19:11.440 -> 01:19:16.320] unbelievably competitive. Yeah, it was amazing. So it was kind of the first DRS push to pass,
[01:19:16.320 -> 01:19:20.880] whatever you want to call it. Apparently, they had to deactivate it as well at the end of the
[01:19:20.880 -> 01:19:28.600] straight, which apparently, according to an interview with Paddy Lowe, that Mansell didn't always remember to do and had quite a few hairy moments.
[01:19:28.600 -> 01:19:31.160] Because of course, you've got no rear downforce.
[01:19:31.160 -> 01:19:32.280] Not at all.
[01:19:32.280 -> 01:19:41.000] But also, another interesting sideline of having all those sensors and that telemetry
[01:19:41.000 -> 01:19:50.360] is that they could also sense when, when tires were going flat, like they began, it's also the beginning of this massive telemetry era that we are
[01:19:50.560 -> 01:19:51.760] even more in now.
[01:19:52.200 -> 01:19:52.520] Yeah.
[01:19:52.720 -> 01:19:56.280] All of these, all of these data channels and all of these channels that they have
[01:19:56.280 -> 01:19:58.840] to monitor anyway to get, they're trying to control, but they've got all this
[01:19:58.840 -> 01:20:02.280] data now and they can almost live sort of read it.
[01:20:02.280 -> 01:20:03.640] And as you say, it's crazy.
[01:20:03.640 -> 01:20:04.720] They can almost detect.
[01:20:04.760 -> 01:20:08.500] It was so sensitive that the actuators and the controls
[01:20:08.500 -> 01:20:10.360] and the sensors could detect
[01:20:10.360 -> 01:20:12.640] that when the actuator is having to move,
[01:20:12.640 -> 01:20:15.240] if a tire immediately starts to delaminate,
[01:20:15.240 -> 01:20:16.640] you know, the actuator is trying to keep the car
[01:20:16.640 -> 01:20:18.240] on a perfect pitch and they can have a warning
[01:20:18.240 -> 01:20:20.320] and they can detect this before the driver could
[01:20:20.320 -> 01:20:22.560] and put up a light or a warning on the steering wheel
[01:20:22.560 -> 01:20:24.440] that you've got a puncture, which is amazing.
[01:20:24.440 -> 01:20:26.680] The computer can figure it out so quickly.
[01:20:26.680 -> 01:20:27.760] But that's, yeah, it's amazing.
[01:20:27.760 -> 01:20:29.600] So again, this is early 90s.
[01:20:29.600 -> 01:20:32.840] This is still sort of really cool stuff back then.
[01:20:32.840 -> 01:20:35.680] But then from this 92 car where they've had a bit simple,
[01:20:35.680 -> 01:20:37.100] they've got some gizmos.
[01:20:37.100 -> 01:20:38.600] And this was a kind of a bodge on.
[01:20:38.600 -> 01:20:40.560] And this is why when you look at pictures of the 14B,
[01:20:40.560 -> 01:20:43.100] it has those, what I call sort of cow hips,
[01:20:43.100 -> 01:20:50.320] like on the front of the nose, it has those bulges because they had to accommodate the, it wasn't packaged very efficiently at
[01:20:50.320 -> 01:20:54.680] the front of the car, they literally just put some actuators on the end of the wishbones.
[01:20:54.680 -> 01:20:59.160] And that's why you have these cowling. So the 93 car, the 15C, which is they're working
[01:20:59.160 -> 01:21:06.760] on all 392 because they didn't need to run the 15 because the 14B was so good. The 93 car is really true, full active.
[01:21:06.760 -> 01:21:10.880] They had control on all corners, they could do an awful lot more of it.
[01:21:10.880 -> 01:21:14.760] Paddy Lowe had worked a lot more on the systems, and this was pretty much unbeatable.
[01:21:14.760 -> 01:21:18.040] Yeah, and this is the thing that you get into.
[01:21:18.040 -> 01:21:31.240] You know, do you remember when Honda first came in, in the power units and They were at spa and Alonso drove the car so fast through a turn that the power unit didn't know where it was on the track
[01:21:32.240 -> 01:21:39.060] Right. So this is what they were doing. They could map the whole track into the control software and tell the car
[01:21:39.440 -> 01:21:41.840] Okay, you're gonna do this here
[01:21:41.840 -> 01:21:47.260] but then you're going to do this in the middle of the corner to fight understeer and then you're gonna do this on the straight to
[01:21:47.520 -> 01:21:51.580] Faster and if that didn't work, they could tune the car
[01:21:52.100 -> 01:21:59.740] specifically to to solve specific problems for drivers while they were at the track in the level of
[01:22:00.260 -> 01:22:02.020] the level of
[01:22:02.020 -> 01:22:07.120] Technology and control. I mean Adrian Newey must have been so happy.
[01:22:07.120 -> 01:22:11.560] I mean, because you could extract so much more
[01:22:11.560 -> 01:22:16.480] from that platform with that level of fine-grained control
[01:22:16.480 -> 01:22:20.120] than you could have even a year or two earlier.
[01:22:20.120 -> 01:22:21.840] Yeah, that's absolutely amazing.
[01:22:21.840 -> 01:22:23.040] And imagine that as a driver.
[01:22:23.040 -> 01:22:25.400] So you come in, he goes, right. Middle of turn seven.
[01:22:25.700 -> 01:22:28.600] I've got some, well, I've got some understeer on the entry, still
[01:22:28.600 -> 01:22:31.720] got understeer on the apex, but now I'm getting oversteer on the exit.
[01:22:31.720 -> 01:22:33.440] And the, an engineer's like, no worries.
[01:22:33.880 -> 01:22:34.620] Tip tap, tap, tap.
[01:22:34.620 -> 01:22:36.680] We can cure that for you for this corner.
[01:22:36.840 -> 01:22:40.300] And one of the really good highlights of this is I'm going down into Miribau
[01:22:40.600 -> 01:22:46.240] corner after Casino Square in Monaco in the famous, um, I think it's a famous in,
[01:22:46.240 -> 01:22:48.760] but it's quite, it's in quite a 93.
[01:22:48.760 -> 01:22:52.680] This is a nine, even with the 92 car, the active was so good in the control of the ride
[01:22:52.680 -> 01:22:53.680] height.
[01:22:53.680 -> 01:22:55.680] They could hit that massive bump that all the cars were around.
[01:22:55.680 -> 01:22:58.480] The Williams could go straight over it and the other cars couldn't.
[01:22:58.480 -> 01:23:01.640] So even if there was a huge bump in the middle of a track, like, like in 93, they're like
[01:23:01.640 -> 01:23:02.960] right in the middle of that straight, it's a massive bump.
[01:23:02.960 -> 01:23:06.920] They could program the car to almost brace itself and get ready, knowing
[01:23:06.920 -> 01:23:10.720] where the bump is to then raise its ride height slightly, which is a crazy,
[01:23:10.720 -> 01:23:12.800] as you said, a crazy level of control.
[01:23:13.120 -> 01:23:17.060] And I just feel really sorry for the electronics engineers and the mechanics
[01:23:17.060 -> 01:23:20.280] and the people, the engineers having to set this up, because I'd imagine
[01:23:20.280 -> 01:23:23.080] there was so many late nights having to program all of this.
[01:23:23.480 -> 01:23:23.960] Oh yeah.
[01:23:23.960 -> 01:23:27.400] Well, back then there were no curfews, were there?
[01:23:27.400 -> 01:23:30.400] Everybody worked flat out the entire weekend.
[01:23:30.400 -> 01:23:37.240] But I'll tell you what was a bigger problem for them, was that it was so obviously good
[01:23:37.240 -> 01:23:46.880] that everybody began to copy it, and this caused some incidents, let's say. Al-Khalili Yes, and this is kind of like almost the precursor
[01:23:46.880 -> 01:23:52.480] of it being banned and why it was banned. So we can talk about that a little bit, because
[01:23:52.480 -> 01:23:59.280] yeah, after Williams absolutely pulverizing of everybody in 92, it became abundantly clear and
[01:23:59.280 -> 01:24:07.840] obvious that in 93, you had to have active suspension to have even remote hope of being a tiny bit
[01:24:07.840 -> 01:24:13.200] competitive. So costs went through the roof, it spiraled and everybody now is desperately trying
[01:24:13.200 -> 01:24:17.760] to get an active suspension system on their car, whether they be good or bad. And the car's being
[01:24:17.760 -> 01:24:21.920] really quick as well. And as you say, yeah, they had some incidents because the cars now with all
[01:24:21.920 -> 01:24:27.440] these peaky aerodynamics, if a system faltered slightly, you know, if one of the lesser teams had a slightly
[01:24:27.500 -> 01:24:32.300] a less mature system with some faults and the active didn't work properly, the
[01:24:32.300 -> 01:24:34.260] driver is essentially going to lose all their downforce in the middle of a
[01:24:34.260 -> 01:24:35.660] corner and have a massive crash.
[01:24:36.060 -> 01:24:38.500] So I know of one I was going to talk about, you've got some crashes
[01:24:38.500 -> 01:24:39.340] I don't believe as well.
[01:24:39.540 -> 01:24:41.180] Well, you after you, my friend.
[01:24:41.720 -> 01:24:45.280] I was going to say one of the major ones that we've had was, um, was Alex and
[01:24:45.280 -> 01:24:51.300] Ardy in 93 at spa in a Rouge, ironically in a Lotus with Lotus bought back their
[01:24:51.300 -> 01:24:53.960] active suspension back in 91 and 92 and 93.
[01:24:53.960 -> 01:24:56.080] And obviously they crashed out the sport in 94.
[01:24:56.080 -> 01:24:59.740] I believe they were, uh, they were going to write at the end and they'd lost all
[01:24:59.740 -> 01:25:03.400] their advantage with technology, but they were using an active system in 93 and it
[01:25:03.480 -> 01:25:05.920] had a leak, the car dropped going through a Rouge.
[01:25:05.920 -> 01:25:07.800] Alex Zanardi had a massive crash.
[01:25:07.800 -> 01:25:08.960] This was his first F1 career.
[01:25:08.960 -> 01:25:13.400] And at the time, which I found quite believable, unbelievable when researching this, Lotus
[01:25:13.400 -> 01:25:16.880] were a little bit worried knowing it was the active system that caused the crash and they
[01:25:16.880 -> 01:25:18.880] weren't sure if he was going to pull through or not.
[01:25:18.880 -> 01:25:22.960] They got the car out of the country just in case there was an investigation, which I found
[01:25:22.960 -> 01:25:31.520] unbelievable. Yeah, just to tell you how things were looked at back then, that was considered an astute move
[01:25:32.080 -> 01:25:37.440] by the team, no doubt. And any team principal, I don't want to say, I don't want to cast
[01:25:37.440 -> 01:25:42.480] aspersions, but it's not unlikely that other teams would have behaved in a similar fashion.
[01:25:42.480 -> 01:25:46.400] How about that for context? So I think you're right.
[01:25:46.400 -> 01:25:53.040] I think that was probably the one that really made the FIA sit up and say, okay, we were going to put
[01:25:53.040 -> 01:25:58.880] it into this, but we're definitely putting it into this. But it wasn't the only one. Gerhard Berger
[01:25:58.880 -> 01:26:05.400] and Esterel had a pretty big smash, and apparently Derek Warwick did as well.
[01:26:05.400 -> 01:26:12.240] And all of those things caused the FIA, in the form of Charlie Whiting at the time, to
[01:26:12.240 -> 01:26:14.760] bring an end to this for the 94 season.
[01:26:14.760 -> 01:26:19.320] Yeah, and even before that, because obviously you've got teams like Williams, obviously
[01:26:19.320 -> 01:26:23.680] McLaren have thrown everything at it to get their own active system up, and they've spent
[01:26:23.680 -> 01:26:27.360] an awful lot of money and an arms race to get this done.
[01:26:27.360 -> 01:26:29.280] The teams obviously were not gonna wanna give this up.
[01:26:29.280 -> 01:26:32.640] So amazingly, Whiting in one of the races,
[01:26:32.640 -> 01:26:33.560] I'm not sure which one it was,
[01:26:33.560 -> 01:26:35.000] it could have been Hockenheim,
[01:26:35.000 -> 01:26:37.340] basically said, all of your cars are illegal.
[01:26:37.340 -> 01:26:38.480] None of this is legal anymore.
[01:26:38.480 -> 01:26:40.800] We're deeming this all completely illegal
[01:26:40.800 -> 01:26:43.240] and tried to almost scare all the teams
[01:26:43.240 -> 01:26:45.200] into agreeing to get it banned for the next year.
[01:26:45.760 -> 01:26:50.480] Yeah, I think it was Canada where they came through and said that we've decided that
[01:26:50.480 -> 01:26:57.120] all these movable things are actually movable aerodynamics and therefore illegal. You know,
[01:26:57.120 -> 01:27:00.720] caused Williams to say, well, what are you saying? Last year's car was illegal,
[01:27:00.720 -> 01:27:07.520] therefore we're not champion. It caused a bit of the popcorn-munching moments
[01:27:07.520 -> 01:27:11.600] that we've come to really enjoy from Formula One between the teams and the FIA.
[01:27:11.600 -> 01:27:16.640] Mason Yes, and political games and positioning and stuff like that. So,
[01:27:16.640 -> 01:27:22.320] kind of in reality with this, there is not one single reason why they kind of banned it. It's
[01:27:22.320 -> 01:27:29.320] kind of a mixture of all of them, but it always gets brandished in with the big sort of a driver aid cull of 1993 at the end,
[01:27:29.320 -> 01:27:32.640] where they, where they considered it part of the driver aid. So they got rid of the
[01:27:32.640 -> 01:27:37.040] traction control because at the moment, and this again, all of this, all of these extra
[01:27:37.040 -> 01:27:41.360] gizmos came as a result of teams trying to get active on their car with the better computer
[01:27:41.360 -> 01:27:49.600] controls, the hydraulic pumps and the motors, they got the semi-automatic, the flappy paddle gearboxes, active differentials, which still stay even today,
[01:27:49.600 -> 01:27:53.200] and all of this is a result of the push initially to get active suspension on the cars,
[01:27:53.200 -> 01:27:58.800] which is quite amazing. So at the end of 93, they want to ban all driver aids, but also as you say,
[01:27:58.800 -> 01:28:05.360] the cars are getting unpredictable and there's some big crashes happening. Also spiraling costs, the costs
[01:28:05.360 -> 01:28:10.480] are just spiraling out of control because everybody having to try to get this active
[01:28:10.480 -> 01:28:14.320] team. And it's in sort of the early 90s where there's quite a lot of teams about as well.
[01:28:14.320 -> 01:28:20.000] And could you imagine like a Minardi or somebody having to spend their entire season's budget to
[01:28:20.000 -> 01:28:26.200] try to get an actual suspension on the car. It's just not sustainable for the sport, so they had to ban it eventually.
[01:28:26.200 -> 01:28:31.800] Well, it's funny that you mention Minardi, because they in fact had a passive system
[01:28:31.800 -> 01:28:33.660] that they made active.
[01:28:33.660 -> 01:28:39.200] And if my research is correct, when they banned the active, they sort of kept a bit of the
[01:28:39.200 -> 01:28:47.040] passive aspect of it that is really considered to be the forerunner of the frick that Mercedes
[01:28:47.040 -> 01:28:48.040] ran.
[01:28:48.040 -> 01:28:50.320] Well, so you're saying Mercedes are pinching stuff from Menardi?
[01:28:50.320 -> 01:28:51.320] Yes.
[01:28:51.320 -> 01:28:55.000] Well, hey, they have the money to look at everything, don't they?
[01:28:55.000 -> 01:28:56.000] Yes.
[01:28:56.000 -> 01:28:57.000] Yes, they do.
[01:28:57.000 -> 01:29:04.480] So, you come to 93, obviously it's Alan Prost and Williams with their Renault engine.
[01:29:04.480 -> 01:29:06.040] McLaren had a pretty good active system,
[01:29:06.040 -> 01:29:08.680] but Williams again, were just so far ahead of everyone else.
[01:29:08.680 -> 01:29:16.080] And again, they absolutely pulverized the entire field and the FIA, you know, looking
[01:29:16.080 -> 01:29:18.600] back, it's a shame that, you know, we don't have Concorde anymore.
[01:29:18.600 -> 01:29:21.440] We've done, we've, we've had a bit of a regression.
[01:29:21.440 -> 01:29:24.480] We don't have active suspension anymore, but this one, I think probably for the good of
[01:29:24.480 -> 01:29:30.240] Formula One, it was, it's sad it's gone, but I do actually rarely,
[01:29:30.240 -> 01:29:35.040] and one of the rare instances I agree with DFA and Formula One in probably banning this technology.
[01:29:35.040 -> 01:29:38.320] They had to try and nip it in the bud, otherwise it was just going to get out of control. And I
[01:29:38.320 -> 01:29:44.080] think if left untamed, I think we probably would have had a few more dead drivers maybe.
[01:29:44.080 -> 01:29:47.680] And I think we had a, we'll have had quite a few less teams on the grid because the
[01:29:47.680 -> 01:29:48.820] cost just would have pushed them out.
[01:29:49.260 -> 01:29:49.800] All right.
[01:29:49.820 -> 01:29:56.560] Well, as sad as it is to bring an end to that tale of technology triumph, Kyle, I
[01:29:56.560 -> 01:29:58.500] think our episode is at an end.
[01:29:58.500 -> 01:30:00.540] So where can we find you?
[01:30:01.000 -> 01:30:02.960] I lurk on the Twitters.
[01:30:03.040 -> 01:30:06.080] I do do a lot of lurking on social media. I don't post too much,
[01:30:06.080 -> 01:30:10.640] but sometimes you might get a bit of a moody rant or an argy comment out of me. So I am KylePowerF1
[01:30:11.680 -> 01:30:16.480] on Twitter. And yeah, you can miss that's the best place to catch up with me. All right. Well,
[01:30:16.480 -> 01:30:21.440] thanks again for coming and talking about this with I love nerding out with you over this stuff.
[01:30:21.440 -> 01:30:26.040] As for me, as always, I am Matt PT55 on the interwebs, and until
[01:30:26.040 -> 01:31:02.400] next time, this has been Mist Apex Podcast. You
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