Summer Mailbag 2023

Spanners is joined by professional race car driver Bradley Philpot, Chris ‘Catman' Turner and Presenter/Commentator and 7News Sports Reporter  Jonathan ‘Jono’ Simon as they march into the Missed Apex Mailroom for some summer break shenanigans. From history lessons to serious speculation, from rules reviews to hardworking hypotheticals, no i goes undotted and no t uncrossed in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast. 

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**Question 1:**

**Listener:** Carsten from the Netherlands

**Question:**

- Praises the podcast and Spanners' recent attitude towards Max Verstappen.
- Suggests a Tour de France-style championship format where race times are accumulated throughout the season to determine the champion.
- Proposes that the Constructors' Championship should be based solely on the performance of the second driver to improve the lineup and discourage two-person teams from focusing on one driver.

**Responses:**

- Jonathan "Jono" Simon:
- Expresses skepticism about the Tour de France format, citing logistical challenges such as handling retirements and ensuring fairness in the event of a driver finishing a lap behind.
- Acknowledges the potential motivation issue at the front of the grid and suggests considering a format where every practice, qualifying, and race session contributes to the championship.
- Rejects the idea of basing the Constructors' Championship solely on the second driver, arguing that it would defeat the purpose of the championship and potentially lead to confusion and controversy.


- Chris "Catman" Turner:
- Agrees with Jono's assessment of the Tour de France format, highlighting the difficulties in implementing such a system in Formula One.
- Provides an example from rallying, where stages are completed in short stints and points are awarded for event performances rather than accumulated over a whole season.
- Raises the question of grid positioning for subsequent races based on accumulated time differences, suggesting a scenario where the championship leader starts significantly behind the rest of the field.


- Brad Philpott:
- Expresses amusement at the suggestion, describing it as "preposterous" and the opposite of Bernie Ecclestone's idea of determining the championship solely based on race wins.
- Argues that the current system emphasizes reliability and mathematical calculations rather than pure racing performance.
- Questions the motivation of teams at the back of the grid to gain positions, highlighting the lack of incentive for teams to push hard when there is little chance of moving up the standings.


**Question 2:**

**Listener:** Kees from the Netherlands

**Question:**

- Similar to Carsten's suggestion, proposes a Tour de France-style championship format with special stages to address the issue of races being worth less.

**Responses:**

- The panelists briefly discuss the suggestion, acknowledging that it could lead to a situation where teams might not turn up for certain races if they are deemed less valuable.
- They agree that it is a complex topic that would require a dedicated episode to explore thoroughly.


**Question 3:**

**Listener:** Rob Asher

**Question:**

- Asks how the FIA should punish budget cap breaches in the future, given Red Bull's success despite exceeding the cost cap in 2021.

**Responses:**

- Jono:
- Argues that the FIA should impose heavier punishments for future breaches, considering the momentum and advantage gained by teams that overspend.
- Suggests that penalties should significantly impact car development, such as reducing wind tunnel time or deducting points.


- Chris:
- Emphasizes the need for lasting penalties that affect future performance to deter teams from breaching the cost cap.


- Brad:
- Advocates for strict point deductions or even championship disqualification for teams that exceed the cost cap, regardless of whether the breach is minor or major.
- Argues that financial doping, or cheating, should be met with severe consequences to discourage teams from pushing the boundaries.


- Spanners:
- Agrees with the need for substantial penalties, highlighting the importance of disgracing teams in the media to further deter breaches.
- Expresses concern that the current perception of the cost cap as a minor issue undermines its effectiveness. Sure, here is a summary of the podcast episode transcript:

* The podcast begins with a discussion about the cost cap rules in Formula One and how they are being interpreted.
* The hosts debate whether the cost cap rules are too vague and if they should be more clearly defined.
* They also discuss the potential consequences for teams that breach the cost cap, including disqualification from the championship.
* The hosts then move on to a discussion about potential replacements for Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes if he were to retire.
* They consider several drivers, including Charles Leclerc, George Russell, Mick Schumacher, and Daniel Ricciardo.
* The hosts also discuss the driving styles of different drivers and how teams consider driving styles when signing new drivers.
* They debate whether certain cars can be developed to suit a particular driver's style or if there is a general driving style that is best for all Formula One cars.
* The podcast concludes with a discussion about the upcoming Fred Meyer 5AM Black Friday sale and the PrizePicks daily fantasy sports app.

**Key Insights, Perspectives, and Controversies:**

* There is a debate among the hosts about the clarity of the cost cap rules and whether they should be more clearly defined.
* The hosts also disagree on who would be the best replacement for Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes if he were to retire.
* There is a discussion about the driving styles of different drivers and how teams consider driving styles when signing new drivers.
* The hosts debate whether certain cars can be developed to suit a particular driver's style or if there is a general driving style that is best for all Formula One cars.

**Important Quotes or Statements:**

* "The cost cap is a little bit of a mess...They're far too fuzzy." - Matt Trumpets
* "I think it was this week or last week, Williams wanted to spend more of their capital expenditure budget on upgrading their facilities...They took it to the rest of the team. On chalk. They've just got a sand pit and they've got a stick and they're just doing their aero on the sand pit. Making out Play-Doh models." - Matt Trumpets
* "I think Mercedes are not a team that goes for a number one driver and then deliberately goes for a number two driver." - Brad Philpot
* "I think Leclerc is probably a more naturally gifted driver than Russell, and I think the turbulent nature of Ferrari contributes to some of his inconsistency in terms of performance and mistakes and that kind of thing." - Brad Philpot
* "I don't think driving style, where we say, I don't know, Alonso really likes loads of understeer and Hamilton loves loads of oversteer or whatever, I think that's definitely overblown." - Brad Philpot

**Overall Message or Takeaway:**

The overall message of the podcast is that there are a number of issues in Formula One that are currently being debated, including the cost cap rules, potential replacements for Lewis Hamilton at Mercedes, and the driving styles of different drivers. The hosts provide their own perspectives on these issues and engage in lively debates with each other.

I have summarized the podcast episode transcript while maintaining a neutral and unbiased tone, avoiding personal opinions or judgments. I have also maintained a logical flow and coherence throughout the summary, ensuring smooth transitions between different topics. * **Missed Apex Podcast Episode 111 Transcript:**

**Summary:**

The Missed Apex podcast crew—Bradley Philpot, Chris “Catman” Turner, and Jonathan “Jono” Simon—are joined by professional race car driver Bradley Philpot in the Missed Apex Mailroom for some summer break shenanigans. The podcast covers a wide range of topics, including:

* Remembering the smooth driving style of 2009 Formula One World Champion Jenson Button.

* The rivalry between Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg, which reached its peak in 2016.

* The controversial 2021 Formula One season, which saw Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton battle for the championship until the final race.

**Detailed Summary:**

* **Jenson Button's Smooth Driving Style:**

The podcast begins with a discussion of Jenson Button, the 2009 Formula One World Champion. Philpot argues that Button's smooth driving style was often overlooked and underappreciated. He notes that Button was able to extract the most out of his car, even when it was not the fastest on the grid. The other hosts agree, recalling Button's impressive performances in wet races.

* **The Hamilton-Rosberg Rivalry:**

The conversation then turns to the rivalry between Lewis Hamilton and Nico Rosberg, which reached its peak in 2016. The hosts discuss the various factors that contributed to the breakdown of the relationship between the two Mercedes teammates, including their contrasting driving styles, the pressure of competing for the championship, and the influence of their respective teams.

* **The Controversial 2021 Formula One Season:**

The podcast concludes with a discussion of the controversial 2021 Formula One season. The hosts discuss the various incidents that occurred throughout the season, including the collision between Hamilton and Verstappen at the British Grand Prix, the disqualification of Verstappen at the Belgian Grand Prix, and the contentious ending to the season at the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. They also discuss the impact of the new cost cap regulations on the sport.

**Overall:**

The Missed Apex podcast is a lively and informative discussion of Formula One racing. The hosts are knowledgeable and passionate about the sport, and they do a great job of breaking down complex topics in a way that is easy to understand. The podcast is a must-listen for any fan of Formula One racing.

**Additional Notes:**

* The podcast also includes a discussion of the recent news that Red Bull Racing has been found to have breached the cost cap regulations in 2021.
* The hosts also answer a number of questions from listeners, including questions about the future of Formula One and the possibility of a female Formula One driver. - The podcast episode is a summer break special featuring Bradley Philpot, Chris "Catman" Turner, and Jonathan "Jono" Simon.


- They discuss the recent controversies surrounding Red Bull Racing, particularly team principal Christian Horner's behavior during the 2021 season.


- The panel acknowledges that Red Bull's success in 2021 was impressive, but they also express concern about the team's aggressive driving tactics and Horner's confrontational attitude.


- They speculate that Horner may have been under a lot of pressure from above, which could have contributed to his behavior.


- The panel also discusses the impact of Red Bull's success on the team's reputation, suggesting that the team's popularity has declined among fans.


- They note that Verstappen's driving style and the team's overall culture have contributed to this decline in popularity.


- The panel agrees that the 2021 season was exciting but also divisive, and they express hope that the racing in 2023 will be more competitive and less controversial.


- They also discuss the importance of respect and fair play in Formula One, emphasizing the need for drivers to compete aggressively but within the rules.


- The episode concludes with a discussion of the upcoming Low Cost Kart Championship, in which Philpot and Simon will be participating.

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[01:27.780 -> 01:36.900] You are listening to Missed Apex Podcast.
[01:36.900 -> 01:55.720] We live F1. Welcome to Mr Apex podcast. I'm your host Richard Ready, but my friends call me Spanners.
[01:55.720 -> 02:02.400] So let's be friends. It's deep into the summer break. I'm refreshed from a trip down to Cornwall.
[02:02.400 -> 02:08.640] I hope you're enjoying the summer as well. And it's the summer break so we don't have to concern ourselves, if we don't want to,
[02:08.640 -> 02:13.840] with the championship and championship stakes because we're answering your questions. But if
[02:13.840 -> 02:20.960] you are interested in some title maths, here we go. If Max Verstappen takes the full 26 points
[02:20.960 -> 02:26.000] available in the next three events and Perez was to fail to score, then Verstappen
[02:26.000 -> 02:32.600] will require an eighth place finish in Japan to clinch the title with six events left,
[02:32.600 -> 02:39.000] tying that record with Michael Schumacher, who in 2001 also secured the title with six
[02:39.000 -> 02:40.480] races to go.
[02:40.480 -> 02:44.520] But we can take a break from all of that. Let's kick off by answering your mailbag
[02:44.520 -> 02:45.120] questions. So if everything goes wrong, if the content's rubbish, be rest assured that But we can take a break from all of that. Let's kick off by answering your mailbag questions
[02:45.120 -> 02:51.420] So if everything goes wrong if the contents rubbish be rest assured that it's all your fault because we're an independent
[02:51.680 -> 02:55.560] Podcast produced in the podcasting shed with the kind permission of our better halves
[02:55.560 -> 03:01.000] We aim to bring you a race review before your Monday morning commute. We might be wrong, but we're first
[03:08.160 -> 03:14.160] but we're first. Now Matt, two rumpets compiled lovingly all your mailbag questions, but he's taken a break
[03:14.160 -> 03:18.640] and he's been replaced with a shiny young Australian. Jono, how's it going? Jonathan,
[03:18.640 -> 03:19.640] Simon.
[03:19.640 -> 03:24.440] Good. I practiced my American accent. It was pretty bad. So I'll stick to Australian for
[03:24.440 -> 03:27.200] now. So we'll be Jonathan for today and not Trumpets.
[03:27.200 -> 03:29.600] But Verstappen, six races remaining.
[03:29.600 -> 03:32.720] That's like Michael Schumacher 2002 vibes almost.
[03:32.720 -> 03:38.280] Yeah, 2001 I think was the start I was provided with by Chris Catmanturna a moment ago.
[03:38.280 -> 03:41.880] And speaking of that, that is the next person to join us is Chris Catmanturna.
[03:41.880 -> 03:42.880] Hey Chris.
[03:42.880 -> 03:43.880] Yeah, it was 2002.
[03:43.880 -> 03:44.880] Sorry about that.
[03:44.880 -> 03:50.700] Oh, sorry. So you, our quiz master, threw me under the bus and fed me an incorrect stat.
[03:50.700 -> 03:57.200] That's how Crofty must feel when Sean Kelly, F1 stat man, throws him a curveball banana.
[03:57.200 -> 04:02.700] You should definitely be used to that by now, after our live quiz where I didn't even get all the answers right.
[04:02.700 -> 04:10.560] I think the best part of our quizzes is that A, me and Matt are terrible at them and we don't know the answers but also as the quiz master
[04:10.560 -> 04:14.720] occasionally they're wrong and we get to argue about them. Yeah exactly well it would be boring
[04:14.720 -> 04:19.280] if the questions were were right wouldn't it? Yeah well and and it's never boring when we're
[04:19.280 -> 04:25.680] joined by our race car driver and tyre tester Brad Philpott. How's it going Brad? I am so happy to be on this
[04:25.680 -> 04:30.720] show because I always listen to these mailbag shows and think I wish I was on that one because
[04:30.720 -> 04:35.440] I want to just I want I love answering these questions so thanks for having me on tonight.
[04:35.440 -> 04:39.680] You're more than welcome, thanks for your time and the listeners thanks for your questions
[04:39.680 -> 04:46.160] because feedback at missdapex.net is where we get the best content ideas and people say stuff and we go
[04:46.160 -> 04:51.040] oh we've never really thought of that so i'm wondering whether we should start with the
[04:51.040 -> 04:57.120] the tour de france race format championship format let's start with that so this is carsten
[04:57.120 -> 05:02.480] who is messaging us from the netherlands he says keep up the good work a loyal dutch listener and
[05:02.480 -> 05:06.600] patron thank you for your support patreon..com forward slash Missed Apex.
[05:06.600 -> 05:07.520] Hi, guys.
[05:07.520 -> 05:10.600] I've been an avid listener of your podcast and I love what you're doing.
[05:11.080 -> 05:13.720] I've been an F1 fan since my man saw his mustache.
[05:14.160 -> 05:18.800] It's OK. So around the same age as me, El Lione was absolutely my first.
[05:19.080 -> 05:21.680] I would say he's the first driver I was a proper fan of.
[05:22.000 -> 05:29.320] And he says, I'm particularly proud that a Dutch driver is doing so well at at the moment says Carsten. I've heard Matt talking about the Tour de France
[05:29.320 -> 05:33.980] Yes, he does that a lot. We actively tell him not to but there is no stopping him
[05:34.400 -> 05:40.160] I've heard Matt talking about the Tour de France each stage doesn't allocate points, but measures a time difference
[05:40.220 -> 05:47.000] How would F1 look with such a system each race the time differences are noted and then added up throughout the season.
[05:47.000 -> 05:52.000] At the end of the year, the combined time difference makes up the championship. Would that work?
[05:52.000 -> 05:59.000] Okay, probably not. But also, lastly, he says, I feel the Constructors' Championship should be based on the second driver only,
[05:59.000 -> 06:07.280] and that would improve the lineup and stop the two-person teams focusing on one driver. Do you have any thoughts?
[06:07.280 -> 06:12.400] Thanks very much for that. I think that is a very interesting idea. So the idea is, yeah,
[06:12.400 -> 06:17.200] if you win by 10 seconds, then you've got a 10-second lead over the second-place car.
[06:17.200 -> 06:23.440] If you're third by 40 seconds in the next race, then you've got a net 30 seconds behind overall.
[06:23.440 -> 06:25.660] Catman, what do you think of the idea?
[06:25.660 -> 06:30.100] I don't think it would work, but I think it's an interesting way to look at the motivations
[06:30.100 -> 06:31.100] of the teams.
[06:31.100 -> 06:33.060] Yeah, it's a very interesting idea.
[06:33.060 -> 06:35.260] I don't think it would necessarily work.
[06:35.260 -> 06:41.540] There's a lot of things to work through, and I know that Matt, having a penchant for cycling,
[06:41.540 -> 06:46.120] would argue this point very vociferously against me, but it's, I
[06:46.120 -> 06:47.320] mean, rallying does it.
[06:47.320 -> 06:49.880] So they, but the problem is that they do it in short stints.
[06:49.880 -> 06:53.720] So super stages and they do it over an event and you get the event points.
[06:53.720 -> 07:00.040] It was not over a whole season because I know that, you know, what would happen if a driver
[07:00.040 -> 07:04.480] retired from the race, for example, would they lose two hours, that sort of thing.
[07:04.480 -> 07:07.760] I know that you could have dropped points and stuff, but I think Jono's gonna do the Matt
[07:07.760 -> 07:08.720] role and try and fight me.
[07:08.720 -> 07:09.920] Yeah, go and fight him, Jono.
[07:09.920 -> 07:11.360] No, no, no, definitely not.
[07:11.360 -> 07:16.480] What I was thinking was, what happens if you took it one step backwards and went,
[07:16.480 -> 07:21.120] well, what if we did it over a full race weekend, and every practice session now mattered,
[07:21.120 -> 07:22.960] and every qualifying session in the race?
[07:22.960 -> 07:24.320] I don't think that would work either.
[07:24.320 -> 07:28.480] And I remember talking about this exact same idea with somebody about seven, eight years
[07:28.480 -> 07:33.520] ago, and the problem we had was, what happens if somebody finishes a lap behind?
[07:33.520 -> 07:37.000] Do you just put a plus one lap and that goes to your championship?
[07:37.000 -> 07:41.160] So you could be seven minutes ahead in the championship going into the final race, but
[07:41.160 -> 07:46.040] you get a plus one lap, and now you're second in the championship because you had a retirement in the final race?
[07:46.040 -> 07:47.040] Like, it's weird.
[07:47.040 -> 07:48.680] I don't know if it would work entirely.
[07:48.680 -> 07:50.400] Uh, Catman, then Brad.
[07:50.400 -> 07:54.600] Well, they could start the grid for the next race like that, so they could say, right,
[07:54.600 -> 07:58.440] Max, you go, and then they'll sit on the grid for half a minute, and then, right, everybody
[07:58.440 -> 07:59.440] else go.
[07:59.440 -> 08:00.440] I quite like that.
[08:00.440 -> 08:10.680] Or, uh, yeah, you've got Silverstone, yeah, because you've got maybe like when Latifi was in he would be starting down at Club and Vale or maybe even at Stowe and you've got
[08:10.680 -> 08:15.600] Verstappen starting on Pulver's. Yeah you've got to start in Kettering unfortunately if
[08:15.600 -> 08:19.960] you survive then then you get to participate in the rest of the race. Brad.
[08:19.960 -> 08:24.320] The locals call it Kettering by the way so this is I love that the listeners send in
[08:24.320 -> 08:25.680] questions and they're always interesting,
[08:25.680 -> 08:27.760] but this is clearly preposterous
[08:27.760 -> 08:30.940] and is almost the opposite to Bernie Eccleston's idea
[08:30.940 -> 08:32.160] from a few years ago.
[08:32.160 -> 08:33.920] And I believe it was Bernie,
[08:33.920 -> 08:36.700] where the championship wasn't going to be decided on points.
[08:36.700 -> 08:38.680] It was just on number of wins.
[08:38.680 -> 08:41.640] So you could win twice.
[08:41.640 -> 08:44.320] And if nobody else won twice,
[08:44.320 -> 08:46.400] even if they had loads more points than you, then you
[08:46.400 -> 08:50.640] would win the championship. We wanted to put more emphasis on doing the winning. This sounds like
[08:50.640 -> 08:56.720] basically the opposite. It doesn't really matter where you finish and it's just not finishing.
[08:56.720 -> 09:03.440] This would all be about reliability and doing maths at each race. So I think it's a silly idea,
[09:03.440 -> 09:05.360] interesting to consider it.
[09:05.360 -> 09:09.200] No, because then whoever was in the lead, even if they qualified fifth that day,
[09:09.200 -> 09:14.160] you paint their entire car yellow, so you know that they're the championship leader.
[09:14.160 -> 09:19.280] So you're right, I don't think it will work. But the question everyone's kind of trying to
[09:19.280 -> 09:23.520] answer and the reason why these kind of suggestions keep coming up this season
[09:23.520 -> 09:26.560] is because there's a question of motivation
[09:26.560 -> 09:31.200] at the front. So does Verstappen need to push? And this is the big thing I've been saying when
[09:31.200 -> 09:36.000] people get upset at me, saying you're not praising Verstappen enough. Yes, because we literally have
[09:36.000 -> 09:42.080] no idea how well he's doing. You know, he's in a very dominant car with a teammate that's at sea
[09:42.640 -> 09:46.280] with that setup or with that style of driving
[09:46.280 -> 09:52.240] that he needs to do for the car. So he could do in every race, he could be half a second
[09:52.240 -> 09:57.200] a lap faster or half a second a lap slower, and he'd probably still win the race. So they
[09:57.200 -> 10:01.000] say, well, why didn't you praise Verstappen? Because I don't know how well he did. And
[10:01.000 -> 10:10.960] then at the other end of the grid, you have to wonder, is there really a motivation for Sauber and Alfa Romeo to gain one place? And that's the problem, Jonno,
[10:10.960 -> 10:17.240] is that we don't know how hard teams are pushing. It could be that you've got 20 cars out there
[10:17.240 -> 10:19.320] and there's only 10 that are flat out.
[10:19.320 -> 10:23.480] Yeah, and that is a problem. And it's a problem we've had in Formula One the last however
[10:23.480 -> 10:24.880] many X number of years.
[10:24.880 -> 10:25.380] Oh, yes. Not new. a problem and it's a problem we've had in Formula One the last however many X number of years.
[10:25.380 -> 10:26.380] Oh yes, not new.
[10:26.380 -> 10:30.300] I think the solution is what we're doing now in terms of the cost cap and bringing people
[10:30.300 -> 10:32.960] together and people naturally just need to push.
[10:32.960 -> 10:37.920] We don't have to change the format as it is and the way we determine a world champion
[10:37.920 -> 10:40.220] by time difference and all this kind of stuff.
[10:40.220 -> 10:44.600] So right now, I think in the direction we're going, it's pretty good.
[10:44.600 -> 10:46.000] It's not the end of the
[10:46.000 -> 10:50.080] world to think of ideas like this, and it's not the first time somebody's thought of this.
[10:50.080 -> 10:54.400] What Brad was talking about before, for some context, was this medal format. It was kind of
[10:54.400 -> 10:59.840] like the Olympics, where you win gold, you have seven race wins. But what happens if you both have
[10:59.840 -> 11:09.000] seven? Well, it's based on your silvers now. how many second places do you have. And it was 2008, 2009 that Bernie Eccleston was thinking of putting that in.
[11:09.000 -> 11:11.200] So we've thought about this before.
[11:11.200 -> 11:15.360] I've never thought about this for the Drivers' Championship, Carsten's idea here.
[11:15.360 -> 11:19.160] I've thought about this in the past for the Constructors' Championship, because let's
[11:19.160 -> 11:24.520] be honest, and this will sort of segue into Carsten's second question, who cares about
[11:24.520 -> 11:25.840] the Constructors' Championship?
[11:25.840 -> 11:28.440] Nobody's cared about that for 20 years.
[11:28.440 -> 11:34.740] And this time difference measure, I think, is only good enough to do for the Constructors
[11:34.740 -> 11:37.000] if we were going to implement an idea like this.
[11:37.000 -> 11:38.000] Chris?
[11:38.000 -> 11:39.640] So, yeah, I agree with you.
[11:39.640 -> 11:46.120] And actually, I did look into Carson's suggestion with the 22 22 and 21 championships is if it was just
[11:46.120 -> 11:49.640] the second driver, how would that have affected it?
[11:49.640 -> 11:54.120] So the problem with the point system we have at the moment is that it's very heavily top
[11:54.120 -> 11:55.560] weighted.
[11:55.560 -> 12:01.520] So if you have two diversely performing, shall we say, drivers at the back end, one of them
[12:01.520 -> 12:03.240] scores points, one doesn't.
[12:03.240 -> 12:05.240] So there's a much bigger kind
[12:05.240 -> 12:12.880] of gap. So in 2022, the only team... So actually there was a big shift with Alfa Romeo, who
[12:12.880 -> 12:17.360] finished... Actually finished sixth in the championship, but on their second driver,
[12:17.360 -> 12:21.680] because it was Joe only scored six points to Bottas' 49, they would have actually have
[12:21.680 -> 12:26.480] come ninth in the championship. So it'd make a big sway at the back.
[12:27.240 -> 12:33.100] But every year I looked at the front four, five teams were all normal.
[12:33.140 -> 12:34.380] They were all as it was.
[12:34.380 -> 12:37.640] So it mainly affixed the bottom positions, which is interesting because it would mean
[12:37.640 -> 12:38.920] we'd have to look at it a bit more.
[12:39.080 -> 12:42.940] Yeah, that is interesting because I think like teams have openly said now, no, we are
[12:42.940 -> 12:45.920] favoring the drivers
[12:45.920 -> 12:50.000] championship over the constructors, which I suspected for a long time anyway. Plus with
[12:50.000 -> 12:55.120] the cost cap, if you're going to have upgrades throughout the season and you can prioritise
[12:55.120 -> 13:00.920] one driver, I think you're almost stupid not to. Why not focus... I know the manufacturing
[13:00.920 -> 13:06.520] element itself actually isn't the highest cost, it's the design and the time to design stuff.
[13:06.520 -> 13:10.840] But if you get a chance to prioritize one driver, you should under the current system.
[13:10.840 -> 13:13.440] There's no real incentive to do otherwise.
[13:13.440 -> 13:14.440] Yeah.
[13:14.440 -> 13:18.800] And to add to that, if you did that, the whole definition of the Constructor's Championship
[13:18.800 -> 13:22.680] is it's based on the best car and the best team and constructor.
[13:22.680 -> 13:28.920] So now if you're trying to get them to hire a better second driver, does that defeat the
[13:28.920 -> 13:34.480] purpose now if you have a bad second driver that a team could have one of like a car like
[13:34.480 -> 13:40.320] Catman just said that's sixth best, now it's ranked ninth best because you have a bad driver
[13:40.320 -> 13:44.520] and it's not a second driver's championship, it's a constructor's championship.
[13:44.520 -> 13:48.640] So that's also the rebuttal there is, why would you hold a driver's championship for
[13:48.640 -> 13:50.080] your number ones?
[13:50.080 -> 13:54.100] And now the constructor's championship is now just some form of number two driver's
[13:54.100 -> 13:55.100] championship.
[13:55.100 -> 13:56.100] There's no point.
[13:56.100 -> 14:01.080] But it is just, I think the question is highlighting the fact that, you know, Red Bull run a second
[14:01.080 -> 14:03.120] car because you're supposed to.
[14:03.120 -> 14:06.880] And that's the thing that he's kind of trying to get rid of a little bit.
[14:06.880 -> 14:11.600] So just to kind of round off on this Tour de France style question, what would you do
[14:11.600 -> 14:12.600] if you had a DNF?
[14:12.600 -> 14:16.200] Well, you can have some drop rounds and they used to have drop rounds in the olden days.
[14:16.200 -> 14:21.300] But I was thinking about a system we deploy when we're playing adventure golf on your
[14:21.300 -> 14:23.540] local crazy golf course.
[14:23.540 -> 14:27.220] And there's always that one hole where somebody just has an absolute
[14:27.680 -> 14:34.080] Nightmare blow up and they're trying to like attack a windmill with a plastic golf club where we just go
[14:34.080 -> 14:39.640] Let's just call that let's call it ten, you know, and that stops the tears and we all move on to the next
[14:40.320 -> 14:43.160] Obstacle come on. It's okay. Let's hit it through the clown's mouth now
[14:43.160 -> 14:49.620] Let's call it ten so we could say if we're idea for you, Carsten, and if you DNF, we'll
[14:49.620 -> 14:51.360] just call that 70 seconds.
[14:51.360 -> 14:54.140] The most you can be behind is 70 seconds.
[14:54.140 -> 14:58.740] Well, they did used to do something aggregate for qualifying back in the day.
[14:58.740 -> 15:05.600] I remember Damon Hill and Chumak, it was at 94 era, they used to have two qualifying sessions and it used to be
[15:05.600 -> 15:12.720] the sum of both of your laps is your pole time. So, but I don't think that really worked because
[15:12.720 -> 15:18.720] most people couldn't remember the first session. Yeah, it's complicated. Look, we at the moment,
[15:18.720 -> 15:27.120] like I couldn't remember what was going on on a sprint weekend and And I had a member of the panel around and my son who all
[15:27.120 -> 15:33.120] watch it and didn't realise that the qualifying they'd just seen on a Saturday didn't then apply
[15:33.120 -> 15:38.960] to the grid on Sunday. So we're not about to start aggregating race times. Good suggestion.
[15:38.960 -> 15:43.840] I'm sorry, no, but I think we'll have to move on. And coincidentally, we had a really similar
[15:44.960 -> 15:45.720] suggestion from Kees from the Netherlands. And I just want to read move on. And coincidentally, we had a really similar suggestion
[15:45.720 -> 15:47.720] from Kees from the Netherlands.
[15:47.720 -> 15:49.040] And I just want to read out this.
[15:49.040 -> 15:50.920] First of all, thank you for providing us
[15:50.920 -> 15:52.120] with amazing content.
[15:52.120 -> 15:53.200] Thank you very much, Kees.
[15:53.200 -> 15:55.720] I'm not very good at acknowledging
[15:55.720 -> 15:58.120] when we get really lovely feedback like that
[15:58.120 -> 16:00.440] because it kind of feels odd
[16:00.440 -> 16:02.220] and I never quite feel like we deserve it.
[16:02.220 -> 16:04.240] But whenever I read it, I promise you,
[16:04.240 -> 16:10.000] it makes a difference. I love knowing what you think about the show. Feedback at missdapex.net. I'm just not
[16:10.000 -> 16:14.160] always going to read it out. And to Spanners, thank you for the way you have been handling
[16:14.160 -> 16:19.280] your attitude towards Max lately. You'll probably get a lot of strongly worded emails from Dutch
[16:19.280 -> 16:24.720] people. Yes, correct. But as a Dutch Max fan I wanted to say that you have been smashing it
[16:24.720 -> 16:28.960] lately. Thank you very much. And pretty much makes a very similar suggestion about
[16:28.960 -> 16:34.280] the Tour de France, except adding in special stages. So you might have Monaco that's worth
[16:34.280 -> 16:40.320] less and then people might not turn up. But that is a whole episode's discussion, I think.
[16:40.320 -> 16:47.920] The cost cap came up in a question from Rob Asher and Rob says, this is a you are the ref question,
[16:47.920 -> 16:54.320] or rather you are the FIA, how do you punish budget cap breaches in future given how well
[16:54.320 -> 17:01.360] Red Bull are doing this year? Whether they deserve to be winning in 2023 or not, the optics are not
[17:01.360 -> 17:07.720] good, what should you do next time? And we are coming up to cost cap season.
[17:07.720 -> 17:10.680] My understanding is that from September onwards,
[17:10.680 -> 17:13.160] any time the cost cap would drop,
[17:13.160 -> 17:15.400] there are a few teams where the FIA have gone in
[17:15.400 -> 17:16.880] and opened all the drawers.
[17:16.880 -> 17:19.960] And I think the rumors are it's Aston Martin,
[17:19.960 -> 17:23.480] Mercedes and Red Bull have had deeper investigation.
[17:23.480 -> 17:26.640] So it's going to be hilarious either way.
[17:26.640 -> 17:32.000] Either Red Bull have done it again and broken the cost cap, in which case everything is
[17:32.000 -> 17:38.280] going to hit the fan from all ends. Or I think even the most funny would be if Mercedes are
[17:38.280 -> 17:42.960] the ones that broke the cost cap. And then what are the Mercedes and Hamilton fanboys
[17:42.960 -> 17:49.680] like me going to do? Are we going to stick to our principles or are we gonna flip-flop? Because I'll tell you what Brad, if it turns out
[17:49.680 -> 17:54.400] Mercedes have broken the cost cap, I'm gonna flip-flop and be saying things like, oh it's only
[17:54.400 -> 17:59.760] a minor breach, no one cares, it was only Volvons. So there's a couple of ways you can look at this
[17:59.760 -> 18:07.520] obviously and one is to say, well last time Red Bull got a slap on the wrist because it was a first offense
[18:07.520 -> 18:11.960] and we were feeling out the regulations and, you know, it was easy to get things wrong.
[18:11.960 -> 18:16.280] They, they, the tax was incorrectly allocated or whatever.
[18:16.280 -> 18:19.400] And you could say, but now we're going to take it seriously.
[18:19.400 -> 18:23.680] Cause you've all had a chance to see what, you know, that we're going to be strict on this.
[18:23.680 -> 18:27.040] But then you could also argue it from the opposite position, which is, well,
[18:27.040 -> 18:29.000] hang on, why did that one team,
[18:29.600 -> 18:32.240] why did they get a first offense that was lenient?
[18:32.320 -> 18:35.280] And if my team breaks the cost cap rules,
[18:35.600 -> 18:40.600] we suddenly get a stronger punishment and I can see both sides of that.
[18:41.320 -> 18:46.160] I can totally see teams watching Red Bull overspend for whatever reason. And
[18:46.160 -> 18:50.560] again, we've gone over this ad infinitum in regards to catering budget or whatever the
[18:50.560 -> 18:54.560] money was spent on. It's all part of a pool of money that you're allowed to spend. And
[18:54.560 -> 18:59.720] it doesn't really matter what you say, put you over the edge, you've gone over the edge.
[18:59.720 -> 19:04.480] I can see other teams saying, you know what, let's just go for it. Because Red Bull, that
[19:04.480 -> 19:06.240] first offense that they've done, if
[19:06.240 -> 19:09.280] they got an advantage from that, that's a bigger advantage than
[19:09.280 -> 19:12.200] someone doing it this year because they got that advantage
[19:12.240 -> 19:14.640] baked in for the full rule set.
[19:15.040 -> 19:18.040] So it's easy to argue that actually doing it in the first
[19:18.040 -> 19:21.840] year is, you get a bigger benefit, so you should get a
[19:21.840 -> 19:22.600] bigger penalty.
[19:22.960 -> 19:26.600] Um, but yeah, I, that yeah, that's my initial response.
[19:26.600 -> 19:28.560] I've got plenty more to add, but I'll let other people talk.
[19:28.600 -> 19:28.880] Yeah.
[19:28.880 -> 19:33.080] And also like, let's focus in on the question, because we've definitely
[19:33.080 -> 19:36.280] argued amongst ourselves on this, Jono, but you know, the question is, well,
[19:36.280 -> 19:41.400] you're the FIA, Jono, not knowing who it is that has potentially breached it.
[19:41.440 -> 19:45.120] What would you do now for teams that now breach the cost cap?
[19:45.120 -> 19:50.400] And no one is going to breach it by 7 million or whatever it was. So it's always going to be
[19:50.400 -> 19:55.600] a quote, minor breach. To keep it ambiguous or broad,
[19:56.160 -> 20:02.320] punish heavily is what I would do. And the reason is because momentum is such a big thing when it
[20:02.320 -> 20:08.160] comes to car development and team development. Look at Mercedes going into the turbo hybrid era in 2014.
[20:08.160 -> 20:09.960] They started that years ahead,
[20:09.960 -> 20:13.640] had the momentum, and it was tough to catch them up.
[20:13.640 -> 20:16.040] Took them about seven years for somebody to win a championship.
[20:16.040 -> 20:17.680] Now, in this situation,
[20:17.680 -> 20:22.360] if Red Bull have breached the cost cap in 2021,
[20:22.360 -> 20:28.160] and they are allowed to be punished by a very small amount.
[20:28.160 -> 20:32.760] They almost benefit more from the momentum they've carried from that year to winning
[20:32.760 -> 20:37.200] that year, to winning the next year, to winning this year, to potentially winning again in
[20:37.200 -> 20:42.840] 2024 and the momentum they've gained by breaching the cost cap needs to be punished more.
[20:42.840 -> 20:48.240] And I'm not saying, I know what you're saying Spanners, whether it's minor or major, it doesn't matter. But again,
[20:48.240 -> 20:53.200] if you're going to and going back to the original question, I don't know what needs to happen and I
[20:53.200 -> 20:57.440] don't know what it needs to be, whether it's a points restriction, whether it's stripping of
[20:57.440 -> 21:01.280] prize money, whether it's something along those lines, something that will affect
[21:01.280 -> 21:05.480] the car development. And they've done that to Red Bull. You know, it's our best example,
[21:05.480 -> 21:06.800] because they're the team that's been pinged
[21:06.800 -> 21:09.240] heaviest of this in the last couple of years.
[21:09.240 -> 21:12.960] But it would have to be something that would
[21:12.960 -> 21:15.000] drastically affect their car in the future
[21:15.000 -> 21:16.600] and something that would affect their performance,
[21:16.600 -> 21:18.680] which the wind tunnel time is the best example.
[21:18.680 -> 21:20.760] They're losing that for this year.
[21:20.760 -> 21:21.600] Chris.
[21:21.600 -> 21:24.520] Yeah, and that's a very good point.
[21:24.520 -> 21:30.840] You know, I think it's all about how you affect future performance and make it a lasting penalty
[21:30.840 -> 21:36.400] and an immediate penalty, because the issue is that you've got that hangover where they've
[21:36.400 -> 21:39.480] got the benefit of that, and that's very tricky.
[21:39.480 -> 21:40.480] Jono then Brad.
[21:40.480 -> 21:45.200] Yes, and just one more thing to follow up on what Chris said, is it's like, look at
[21:45.200 -> 21:49.760] US sports, and I'm a big NBA fan, and I know a lot of people don't watch basketball, so
[21:49.760 -> 21:54.960] I'll explain this as best I can, they will sometimes take away draft picks for young
[21:54.960 -> 21:58.480] talent away from teams who breach rules.
[21:58.480 -> 22:02.440] And that drastically affects teams, you know, whether they lose a first round pick, a second
[22:02.440 -> 22:08.240] round pick, we won't go into that, but that's what needs to happen in F1 and that can affect the future of a team. I can name you
[22:08.240 -> 22:14.000] teams 20 years ago in the NBA who've lost a full decade of success through bad management,
[22:14.000 -> 22:18.720] breaking the rules, losing draft picks. And that's what needs to be punished for Formula 1.
[22:18.720 -> 22:24.000] Because as far as I can see, the budget cap is working, it's bringing the grid closer together.
[22:24.000 -> 22:26.560] And if you're going to breach it,
[22:26.560 -> 22:29.920] if you're going to push the rules and not get punished enough, you're going to be the team
[22:29.920 -> 22:34.640] who's going to dominate the sport, as we're seeing with Red Bull now, and it defeats the purpose of
[22:34.640 -> 22:40.000] having a cost cap in the first place. I think we're really pussyfooting around this too much.
[22:40.000 -> 22:45.200] I think, and I'm not going to flip-flop, if a team, whether it's a team that I prefer over
[22:45.200 -> 22:52.240] other teams, has breached or not, it needs to be points deductions. This whole, kind of,
[22:52.240 -> 22:57.520] in the future we'll punish your development, that kind of punishment isn't a real punishment.
[22:57.520 -> 23:03.040] You've already got the ill-gotten gains now. I said this last year, I said this, I'm saying this
[23:03.040 -> 23:05.440] right now as well, you have to deduct points,
[23:05.440 -> 23:10.320] you have to exclude from the championship, it's the only thing that the teams will care about.
[23:10.320 -> 23:14.960] Because if you know that's a risk, for whether it's a minor or a major breach, even if it's
[23:14.960 -> 23:18.800] minor, you should have built more margin in and you've got every opportunity to speak to
[23:18.800 -> 23:23.120] the governing body if you're not sure about whether a thing is allowed or not.
[23:23.120 -> 23:26.800] So it should be black and white, you overspend,
[23:26.800 -> 23:28.660] you get a set points deduction
[23:28.660 -> 23:29.840] for how much you've overspent
[23:29.840 -> 23:32.060] or a championship disqualification.
[23:32.060 -> 23:33.060] Yeah, well, this is it.
[23:33.060 -> 23:35.460] Look, Brad D in the live chat is saying,
[23:35.460 -> 23:38.340] breach is such a nice PR approved word.
[23:38.340 -> 23:41.900] And if I wanna put words into Brad D's mouth there,
[23:41.900 -> 23:43.500] it's cheating, isn't it?
[23:43.500 -> 23:45.920] It's cheating, it's financial doping.
[23:45.920 -> 23:52.680] If you were breaching a technical regulation and you were caught, that would be cheating
[23:52.680 -> 23:57.660] if you had a bendy wing. And look, we're not clutching at pearls here, Capman. We know
[23:57.660 -> 24:02.640] that teams will push the envelope, but the crime is getting caught, isn't it? And if
[24:02.640 -> 24:06.960] you breach the cost cap, you've breached it on purpose
[24:06.960 -> 24:12.320] or you're really bad at counting. Well, you're really bad at countering the number of Olivons.
[24:12.320 -> 24:20.400] No, it's definitely got to have teeth. And I think the issue is going to be trying to apply that. I
[24:20.400 -> 24:25.680] mean, nobody cares about last year now. We're 10 months after the end of the season.
[24:25.680 -> 24:27.640] It's in the rule, it's in the yearbooks.
[24:27.680 -> 24:28.400] No one cares.
[24:28.640 -> 24:31.040] And nobody wants to win a championship because the other guy spent
[24:31.040 -> 24:33.320] five quid more on sandwiches.
[24:33.840 -> 24:38.080] But you have always have to say, okay, okay, let's look at Red Bull 2021.
[24:38.200 -> 24:38.480] Okay.
[24:38.480 -> 24:41.640] So we all, we all have emotions about 2021.
[24:41.920 -> 24:46.560] So if you spend £400,000 over, was that what it was that Red Bull breached
[24:46.560 -> 24:51.600] it by? And I've bored people to death with this. Mercedes stayed under it. They didn't stay under
[24:51.600 -> 24:57.440] it by a penny. They would have made sure they stayed under it. So we're talking the best part
[24:57.440 -> 25:05.600] of half a million pounds. Tell me that didn't make a difference in 2021. So you should lose points for that season.
[25:05.600 -> 25:12.200] And if Mercedes or Red Bull breached in 2022, I agree with you, Brad, they should lose points
[25:12.200 -> 25:13.200] for that season.
[25:13.200 -> 25:17.360] But you also need to lose points for the season that you're benefiting as well.
[25:17.360 -> 25:20.680] So I mean, really, teams should be looking at this cost cap.
[25:20.680 -> 25:28.780] And if it's X, they need to be X minus half a million, because they should be so scared of going even a penny over it.
[25:28.780 -> 25:35.080] And it needs to be disgraced more in the media, and we've done our job with what Red Bull
[25:35.080 -> 25:38.260] did in 2021, I can tell you that much.
[25:38.260 -> 25:41.760] But that's also part of it too, because if you've gone, oh, they've only exceeded by
[25:41.760 -> 25:47.080] four quid for an extra sandwich, they've exceeded by four quid, that's a disgrace to the sport.
[25:47.080 -> 25:48.880] That is putting the sport into disrepute.
[25:48.880 -> 25:52.520] I remember when, I'm not going to go into it, I was going to come up with an example
[25:52.520 -> 25:56.680] that was going to get me in some trouble, but there's stuff in the past that has put
[25:56.680 -> 25:57.680] the sport into disrepute.
[25:57.680 -> 26:02.460] And I go, but for some reason, breaching the cost cap has not put the sport into disrepute.
[26:02.460 -> 26:08.720] That should be, I'm pretty sure Formula One, I'm not sure if it still exists, but I remember 15 years ago, there used to be specific rules
[26:08.720 -> 26:14.240] and the stewards and the FIA would say, you have put the sport into disrepute. What happened to
[26:14.240 -> 26:17.520] that? Whatever happened to that? I want to know if that still exists.
[26:17.520 -> 26:22.240] I reckon Mercedes have gone over. I reckon they got to 2022 and they just went, you know what,
[26:22.240 -> 26:25.080] sod it. We've got a bad car anyway, you can't
[26:25.080 -> 26:30.360] do anything worse to us. We've seen that there was a slap on the wrist in 2021. I wouldn't
[26:30.360 -> 26:36.000] be surprised at all if they went in a bit laissez-faire. And we have had a comment here
[26:36.000 -> 26:41.560] probably from people who know more about accounting than us. So Maria saying, accounting and accounting
[26:41.560 -> 26:49.240] rules can have a lot of interpretation in them. And if the cost cap rules do have so many holes that you could drive a bus through them,
[26:49.240 -> 26:52.240] then that's the fault of the FIA.
[26:52.240 -> 26:54.240] It should be clearer.
[26:54.240 -> 26:58.280] And if there are giant holes in it, then you need to fill those holes.
[26:58.280 -> 27:02.080] Because we did have a question, say, from Gabe, who says,
[27:02.080 -> 27:04.840] how in the world does the cost cap actually work?
[27:04.840 -> 27:05.660] And the short answer is none of us know. say from Gabe, who says, how in the world does the cost cap actually work?
[27:05.660 -> 27:08.420] And the short answer is none of us know.
[27:08.420 -> 27:11.100] And yet, and sorry Spanners, I was desperate to add to this.
[27:11.100 -> 27:16.980] Maria brings up a great point that is going to support my next amazing point right now,
[27:16.980 -> 27:24.420] which is if accounting has different sets of interpretations, then so does a rear wing
[27:24.420 -> 27:28.240] size. And if you're one millimeter over and the stewards after the race go, well, you're one
[27:28.240 -> 27:30.200] millimetre over, you're disqualified.
[27:30.200 -> 27:31.600] And that's what should happen with a cost cap.
[27:31.600 -> 27:33.040] It shouldn't even be points deductions.
[27:33.040 -> 27:35.080] I want to take Brad's thing to the next level.
[27:35.080 -> 27:37.880] It should be a full disqualification from the championship.
[27:37.880 -> 27:41.960] You know, because, and here's a funny thing I thought of, what happens if you had three
[27:41.960 -> 27:48.840] billion dollars and went, I'm just going to design a car that's going to win every race and I'm going to win that championship and I'm only going to get
[27:48.840 -> 27:52.560] a points deduction but I'm still going to win the championship by 400 points.
[27:52.560 -> 27:58.320] Obviously in that situation you'd heavily disqualify a team from a championship but
[27:58.320 -> 28:03.000] if it's a minor deduction, sorry, if it's a minor breach, it's a minor breach.
[28:03.000 -> 28:05.740] Same way a rear wing's a millimeter over, disqualification.
[28:05.740 -> 28:06.740] Absolutely.
[28:06.740 -> 28:09.180] I think it was 0.9 millimeters, wasn't it?
[28:09.180 -> 28:10.180] Anyway.
[28:10.180 -> 28:12.980] I thought it was 0.2 for Hamilton in Brazil 21.
[28:12.980 -> 28:13.980] There you go.
[28:13.980 -> 28:18.860] But yeah, so I was just having a read and it's actually 5% of...
[28:18.860 -> 28:27.360] If you exceed by 5% of the budget of 145 million, that's a disqualification level event.
[28:27.360 -> 28:34.160] So there is some amount of minor and major, but as you say, I don't think these guys can
[28:34.160 -> 28:39.560] design a car which can do so many amazing things and the drivers can go within millimeters
[28:39.560 -> 28:40.560] of walls.
[28:40.560 -> 28:43.240] They could certainly get a good accountant that could count within pounds.
[28:43.240 -> 28:44.480] I would think so.
[28:44.480 -> 28:48.800] And Paddy's comment in the live chat is, how does it actually work? It
[28:48.800 -> 28:54.880] does not. And let's be honest, the cost cap is a little bit of a mess. And I know Red Bull are
[28:54.880 -> 29:01.040] the focus of it, but let's not forget that the reason the cost cap probably came in in the first
[29:01.040 -> 29:06.960] place was because Mercedes came in with an unprecedented financial and
[29:06.960 -> 29:12.760] staffing advantage. So other teams were in the region of one to four hundred, Mercedes
[29:12.760 -> 29:19.640] came in with over a thousand staff and they came in as a fully fledged engineering firm
[29:19.640 -> 29:31.600] focused on aerodynamic and car development. So they dominated the sport from 2016 to 2020, using
[29:31.600 -> 29:37.040] that financial leverage, being able to pour money into the engine and hitting the ground
[29:37.040 -> 29:42.780] running in an engine formula. And I don't remember any time in F1 where the engine has
[29:42.780 -> 29:47.760] been so important and they came in with a huge advantage
[29:47.760 -> 29:53.760] and a lot of that is down to their financial and engineering clout. And that set in motion
[29:53.760 -> 29:58.560] a period of domination that if you weren't a Lewis Hamilton or Mercedes fan was particularly
[29:58.560 -> 30:10.960] grating and something had to be done, something needed to be done. I'm all for domination in a sport, and I'm a Hamilton fan, so I enjoyed it. But when you get five, six, seven years down the line,
[30:10.960 -> 30:17.760] and no other team has a sniff, you can kind of understand why people wanted to bring a cost cap
[30:17.760 -> 30:22.880] in to kind of bring an end to that. And I will stick to my guns that regulations were actively
[30:22.880 -> 30:25.600] pointed against Mercedes to try and
[30:25.600 -> 30:26.600] bring them back.
[30:26.600 -> 30:33.440] And you've got to do that at some point because it was heading into a coldy sack.
[30:33.440 -> 30:37.320] But the cost cap regulations as they are, are a little bit of a mess.
[30:37.320 -> 30:38.800] They're far too fuzzy.
[30:38.800 -> 30:40.860] They did the job already.
[30:40.860 -> 30:45.480] We nerfed Mercedes and now what it's actually doing is stopping any team catching
[30:45.480 -> 30:46.480] Red Bull.
[30:46.480 -> 30:49.320] So what we've done is we've, we've done what Australia did.
[30:49.320 -> 30:53.520] You know, they were overrun with kangaroos, so they brought in lions.
[30:53.520 -> 30:56.720] And now everywhere you go in Australia, there's just lions everywhere.
[30:56.720 -> 31:00.840] And they're talking about bringing in polar bears to eat the lions.
[31:00.840 -> 31:01.960] And what are we going to do?
[31:01.960 -> 31:07.980] What polar bear are we going to bring in to defeat now the problems this cost cap is causing?
[31:07.980 -> 31:11.800] The problem is, unfortunately, is that they've done exactly the opposite.
[31:11.800 -> 31:17.240] I think it was this week or last week, Williams wanted to spend more of their capital expenditure
[31:17.240 -> 31:22.000] budget on upgrading their facilities because James Vowles went there from Mercedes and
[31:22.000 -> 31:30.160] went, this is like working out of a shed. So they decided to, they said, well, could we maybe get a wind tunnel or CFD or something
[31:30.160 -> 31:35.440] rather than just drawing it on post-it notes. They took it to the rest of the team.
[31:35.440 -> 31:39.200] On chalk. They've just got a sand pit and they've got a stick and they're just doing
[31:39.200 -> 31:40.720] their aero on the sand pit.
[31:40.720 -> 31:46.120] Making out Play-Doh models. But yeah, the problem was, is the other teams went, well, if they
[31:46.120 -> 31:49.920] get a better wind tunnel, then I want a better wind tunnel and I want this and I want that.
[31:49.920 -> 31:55.080] So then eventually it all just spiraled and they said, no, no one's getting anything.
[31:55.080 -> 31:59.600] So now it's baked in so that Mercedes have their amazing facilities, Red Bull have their
[31:59.600 -> 32:04.280] amazing facilities and everybody else has to stay in their box. So it's going to stay
[32:04.280 -> 32:05.280] like this
[32:05.280 -> 32:08.880] for a long time as far as I'm concerned. I've got a feeling that the cost cap,
[32:08.880 -> 32:13.840] they already, I bet privately, they're already saying, yeah, cost cap is not a great idea.
[32:13.840 -> 32:19.920] But you can't just go right bin it. There will be a face saving period and a phasing out and
[32:19.920 -> 32:30.120] a backing away. Okay, driver question. I'm going to throw this one straight out to Brad. Wade Crawford
[32:30.120 -> 32:33.720] says, really looking forward to the mailbag. I've enjoyed the show for a long time. Thank
[32:33.720 -> 32:37.960] you, Wade. I wanted to pitch a question this time around. It's a question I've kicked around
[32:37.960 -> 32:41.280] and I'm struggling to come up with a good answer. Well, don't worry, Wade. I've got
[32:41.280 -> 32:46.400] Brad queued up for you. Hypothetically, let's say Lewis calls it quits
[32:46.400 -> 32:53.600] tomorrow, who gets a shot in that potentially championship winning seat? Brad, who do you put
[32:53.600 -> 33:06.960] into that 44 car? So I think Mercedes are not a team that goes for a number one driver and then deliberately goes for a number two driver. I think
[33:07.600 -> 33:14.560] Bottas ended up that way. Rosberg certainly wasn't treated as a number two even though ultimately
[33:14.560 -> 33:19.520] on balance he came out second over the years he was against Hamilton and Russell again isn't
[33:19.520 -> 33:28.160] treated like a number two so I think Mercedes Mercedes value this, having two bullets in the chamber. And
[33:28.160 -> 33:32.420] so I think they would go for someone strong. And my immediate response is someone who is
[33:32.420 -> 33:38.180] clearly not super happy where they are, probably doesn't have a real prospect of ever winning
[33:38.180 -> 33:44.000] the championship where they are, and that's Charles Leclerc. So I think he's the right
[33:44.000 -> 33:46.400] kind of character to go to Mercedes,
[33:46.400 -> 33:51.280] and I think he would do well in that environment. So that's my first submission.
[33:51.280 -> 33:56.800] What I was going to say, just to push back slightly, I mean, we could say who do we think
[33:56.800 -> 34:01.840] we should get it, you know, no rules, or who do we realistically think would get it? I don't think
[34:01.840 -> 34:06.040] it's confirmed, but the rumours are that Leclerc has signed a new multi-year deal.
[34:06.040 -> 34:11.600] Yeah, but I don't care. I still think he's a realistic prospect because... Well, I mean,
[34:11.600 -> 34:18.120] I could be completely wrong, obviously, but he's the one that has seemed unhappy where
[34:18.120 -> 34:21.720] he is. And if he has signed a new multi-year deal, maybe that's just because there was
[34:21.720 -> 34:29.800] no immediate perspective of going somewhere any better. But as you're in this hypothetical situation, we're saying that there is a space
[34:29.800 -> 34:33.760] and I think in that hypothetical situation, he wouldn't then sign the deal.
[34:33.760 -> 34:40.240] All right, then. So Leclerc goes to Mercedes. Does he? I think that there's a better chance
[34:40.240 -> 34:50.120] of Mercedes ever having a title shot than Ferrari because Ferrari will just find away. They might start strong, they might flatter to deceive, but Ferrari's probably
[34:50.120 -> 34:56.520] never winning a driver title ever again. Email me, feedback on this, Stevex.net. Mercedes
[34:56.520 -> 35:02.600] might well win another driver title. So how does he do against Russell then, Brad?
[35:02.600 -> 35:10.800] This is really interesting because obviously Russell's been strong against Hamilton but less so this year so I don't think you can say anything conclusively
[35:10.800 -> 35:16.400] from that other than it's finely balanced and whether or not a particular car or situation
[35:16.400 -> 35:22.560] is suiting you at this current time, when you've got two very very good drivers that
[35:22.560 -> 35:27.980] is enough to tip the balance. I think Leclerc, I mean, this is completely just,
[35:27.980 -> 35:29.220] I'm pulling it out of thin air,
[35:29.220 -> 35:30.580] but this is just my opinion.
[35:30.580 -> 35:34.420] I think Leclerc is probably a more naturally gifted driver
[35:34.420 -> 35:38.180] than Russell, and I think the turbulent nature of Ferrari
[35:38.180 -> 35:41.820] contributes to some of his inconsistency
[35:41.820 -> 35:45.840] in terms of performance and mistakes and that kind of thing. And I think
[35:45.840 -> 35:52.720] being at a team which is generally like a kind of stable ship, like Mercedes, might iron out some of
[35:52.720 -> 35:58.000] those things that we see as erratic from Leclerc. And I think that would then allow his natural
[35:58.560 -> 36:03.120] gift to shine through. And the kind of only reason I'm saying this about Leclerc is,
[36:03.120 -> 36:09.120] I think Russell is really good, by the way. so this is not a slight on Russell. I think Russell is a driver who has
[36:09.920 -> 36:16.320] got to where he is in terms of his ability through determination, hard work, really looking into it
[36:16.320 -> 36:20.960] and improving himself, whereas I think it maybe comes slightly more naturally to Leclerc. And this
[36:20.960 -> 36:29.480] comes from talking to people that I know who knew Russell during his karting time, who have said to me, Russell's clearly brilliant, but he didn't set the world
[36:29.480 -> 36:34.480] alight in his junior days until he got into a single seater, you know, in good teams,
[36:34.480 -> 36:39.400] and then clearly did the job. And I think, and I'm going to have to go and look at this,
[36:39.400 -> 36:44.000] I think if you look back at Leclerc's like junior, junior career karting time, it was
[36:44.000 -> 36:45.680] a bit more glittering than Russell's.
[36:45.680 -> 36:46.520] So that's what I'm basing it on.
[36:46.520 -> 36:47.480] Oh, okay, okay, hang on.
[36:47.480 -> 36:49.380] And I know the others are dying to get in,
[36:49.380 -> 36:52.920] but when you talk about Russell's progressive approach
[36:52.920 -> 36:54.880] and putting the work in,
[36:54.880 -> 36:56.840] recently he's been the one complaining
[36:56.840 -> 37:00.400] about sprint weekends and park ferme after FP1.
[37:00.400 -> 37:03.760] And you kind of think maybe Russell is the kind of driver
[37:03.760 -> 37:06.720] who would want those three full practice sessions,
[37:06.720 -> 37:09.860] whereas you think Verstappen, Hamilton, Alonso,
[37:09.860 -> 37:11.220] they would be happy to go,
[37:11.220 -> 37:13.220] now we'll just do qualifying straight off the bat
[37:13.220 -> 37:15.840] and let's just see who gets it immediately.
[37:15.840 -> 37:18.220] Whereas Russell might not want that.
[37:18.220 -> 37:20.420] And hard work is a superpower.
[37:20.420 -> 37:22.460] Well, goodness knows it's all I've got in my career.
[37:22.460 -> 37:24.580] So I'd rather have a work ethic
[37:24.580 -> 37:27.240] than talent most of the time.
[37:27.240 -> 37:31.920] But Jono, if we stay on Leclerc for just a second, that would be a juicy prospect.
[37:31.920 -> 37:34.600] That would definitely be one of the top lineups.
[37:34.600 -> 37:35.600] It would.
[37:35.600 -> 37:38.280] And that's a very good point that Brad's brought up.
[37:38.280 -> 37:42.920] I've never thought about that, that Ferrari have contributed to his inconsistency, which
[37:42.920 -> 37:45.780] sort of nails the point in Hammer's Home.
[37:45.780 -> 37:51.380] What I've been thinking of Leclerc, especially last year, was that I think he had a car that
[37:51.380 -> 37:55.700] was potentially the best car on the grid, when it came to one lap, and two laps, and
[37:55.700 -> 37:57.060] short-term runs.
[37:57.060 -> 38:02.300] I think for Charles Leclerc, it was more, well, he's had to push a car to the limit,
[38:02.300 -> 38:05.600] under pressure at Ferrari, potentially with Ferrari's best
[38:05.600 -> 38:10.840] car that they produced in 10, 15 years almost, and he ended up making mistakes.
[38:10.840 -> 38:15.100] We saw the mistake at France, we saw other mistakes in other races too, and I think that
[38:15.100 -> 38:19.800] also contributed to Leclerc, and there is something I like to call the FF, it's not
[38:19.800 -> 38:24.600] Forfeit, it's not Fast Forward, it's called Ferrari Fatigue, or it's not what you were
[38:24.600 -> 38:25.120] just thinking
[38:25.120 -> 38:28.160] of, Spanners, I can tell you that much.
[38:28.160 -> 38:32.000] But it was, um, and I think he's got a little bit of fatigue now at that team after four
[38:32.000 -> 38:36.140] years, and that's happened to drivers we've seen at Ferrari, uh, Catman over the last
[38:36.140 -> 38:41.480] few years, which is, we've got, you know, Alonso's had the Ferrari Fatigue, Vettel,
[38:41.480 -> 38:42.960] and now it's happening to Charles Leclerc.
[38:42.960 -> 38:48.160] Absolutely, that was exactly what I was gonna say, is that Vettel and Alonso, two proven
[38:48.160 -> 38:55.220] champions, best in the field at their time, were completely obliterated by the pressure
[38:55.220 -> 38:56.220] at Ferrari.
[38:56.220 -> 39:02.640] And is that from the typhosia and the media constantly expecting results when it's not
[39:02.640 -> 39:10.000] realistic? Is that from the drivers themselves just putting too much pressure on themselves?
[39:10.000 -> 39:11.000] Or what is it?
[39:11.000 -> 39:17.600] Because that Ferrari atmosphere just drains the results out of what should be race-winning
[39:17.600 -> 39:19.600] packages and title-winning packages.
[39:19.600 -> 39:24.800] So, OK, so we're happy to put Leclerc into that Mercedes seat, and we think he would
[39:24.800 -> 39:27.320] do well against George Russell.
[39:27.320 -> 39:30.200] So poor old George Russell hasn't done very well out of this conversation.
[39:30.200 -> 39:34.800] I know he's at home, he's watching on YouTube, and he's, oh, those turnips, I would beat
[39:34.800 -> 39:35.800] LeClerc.
[39:35.800 -> 39:36.800] He's just trained...
[39:36.800 -> 39:38.800] Oh, sorry, Brad, quickly.
[39:38.800 -> 39:44.360] LeClerc, or George Russell strikes me as a trained product, whereas if you look at LeClerc,
[39:44.360 -> 39:46.840] he strikes me more of a natural talent.
[39:46.840 -> 39:49.960] That's why you can kick up a stink about George.
[39:49.960 -> 39:52.420] And also, nobody's spoken about Mick Schumacher.
[39:52.420 -> 39:56.360] Why doesn't George get Lewis's seat and Mick Schumacher gets George's seat?
[39:56.360 -> 39:57.360] Okay, okay.
[39:57.360 -> 39:59.200] Well, who wants to respond to that madness?
[39:59.200 -> 40:00.200] Brad?
[40:00.200 -> 40:02.440] Yeah, I can respond to that.
[40:02.440 -> 40:05.020] Just before I do, I have now looked up both of their karting
[40:05.020 -> 40:09.580] careers, just because I wanted to know for sure. And yeah, George clearly has a very
[40:09.580 -> 40:13.340] good karting career because you'd expect him to, but it's mainly British based. And in
[40:13.340 -> 40:19.380] the European and world level where Leclerc was winning championships, Russell finished
[40:19.380 -> 40:23.760] kind of reasonably well, but in his final year in karting was 29th in the world. By
[40:23.760 -> 40:28.360] comparison Leclerc was second. So's the comparison um yeah Mick Schumacher
[40:28.360 -> 40:31.920] wouldn't get the seat because I don't think he's good enough. Yeah where's the
[40:31.920 -> 40:36.480] evidence that he would do well in a top team? Yeah I think Mick is you know I
[40:36.480 -> 40:41.000] think he's good because he's you know Formula 2 champion in the past you can't
[40:41.000 -> 40:46.000] be bad but I just don't think he's George Russell, Charles Leclerc, top-line Formula One driver.
[40:46.000 -> 40:46.320] Good.
[40:46.880 -> 40:54.240] So Schumacher was Formula Two champion after a pretty average first half of the season,
[40:54.240 -> 40:57.920] and then just obliterated the field in the second half.
[40:57.920 -> 41:05.120] Now, was that because he was, like Brad was saying, he's one of these drivers who has to apply himself and isn't
[41:05.120 -> 41:10.980] naturally out of the box, really like go fast talent.
[41:10.980 -> 41:17.240] Or is he one of those who has to really study and put the effort in to get there?
[41:17.240 -> 41:18.240] And I think that's it.
[41:18.240 -> 41:23.480] But the problem is you with somebody of that ilk in a top team, you're expecting the fight
[41:23.480 -> 41:24.480] for championship.
[41:24.480 -> 41:30.480] You can't have the first half of the year or the first couple of years of your career in that team being
[41:30.480 -> 41:35.760] bad. There's one driver we haven't mentioned who would sit in this seat very well, and actually
[41:35.760 -> 41:41.520] either Ferrari or Mercedes should lap them up if Hamilton or Leclerc or Sainz leaves.
[41:42.080 -> 41:44.000] That's Daniel Ricciardo. What?
[41:43.440 -> 41:44.000] and all the Claire or science leaves. That's Daniel Ricciardo. What?
[41:44.640 -> 41:50.160] Yes, right. He has proven race winning experience.
[41:50.160 -> 41:51.680] No one likes this. Here we go.
[41:51.680 -> 41:59.360] He has recent experience of the Red Bull camp with their simulator and with all of their
[42:00.400 -> 42:06.000] experience and secrets that he can bring with them. He's rejuvenated as a driver.
[42:06.000 -> 42:08.000] He's going to smash Sunoda.
[42:08.000 -> 42:10.000] That's our next question.
[42:10.000 -> 42:12.000] That's the next question coming up.
[42:12.000 -> 42:16.000] Okay, look, look, you've mentioned two drivers there.
[42:16.000 -> 42:17.000] I disagree with both of them.
[42:17.000 -> 42:22.000] So you don't get into one of the top three teams by being
[42:22.000 -> 42:26.720] bang average and not beating your teammates. You don't get into Mercedes
[42:26.720 -> 42:31.560] by coming in, finishing second in the Haas and only really bothering the scorers when
[42:31.560 -> 42:36.960] you're distributing carbon fibre around the track. And Schumacher really was, you know,
[42:36.960 -> 42:42.000] like a, he was a bit of a one-man safety car magnet. And so as good as he might have been,
[42:42.000 -> 42:47.000] he didn't show it. So the best case scenario for a driver who's had a bad rookie season and doesn't
[42:47.200 -> 42:50.120] get his seat renewed would be to come in at the back of the grid,
[42:50.320 -> 42:54.720] maybe be able to pay his way into a buy-in seat and have another go.
[42:54.920 -> 42:59.600] No way Schumacher has done enough to get into one of the top three teams.
[42:59.800 -> 43:03.840] And so the next sort of tier behind that is your kind of your Alpine and your
[43:04.040 -> 43:06.440] McLaren seats or your Aston Martin
[43:06.440 -> 43:07.440] seats.
[43:07.440 -> 43:09.280] Would he have done enough to get into those?
[43:09.280 -> 43:10.280] Not even.
[43:10.280 -> 43:12.160] So he's out of the picture completely for me.
[43:12.160 -> 43:17.720] Now Ricciardo, that is an interesting one because Ricciardo has proved himself enough
[43:17.720 -> 43:23.480] that I think any team below that top three, if there was a seat available, would go and
[43:23.480 -> 43:28.880] pay him a fee because he comes with so much charisma, PR stuff, you know he can do a job, he's going
[43:28.880 -> 43:29.960] to be fine.
[43:29.960 -> 43:37.600] But does anyone really think that Ricardo now goes into that Mercedes seat, establishes
[43:37.600 -> 43:41.960] himself as the number one, and then takes the fight to Max Verstappen?
[43:41.960 -> 43:42.960] Jono?
[43:42.960 -> 43:45.360] The way I see this question from Wade is more,
[43:46.000 -> 43:51.360] Lewis calls it quits, George takes Lewis's seat, who gets the second seat? That's the way I've been-
[43:51.360 -> 43:52.960] Yeah, but Mercedes don't do that. Exactly.
[43:52.960 -> 43:57.920] Oh, okay. So you're both looking at this, Catman, as a, oh, okay, so Ricciardo's going to be an
[43:57.920 -> 44:02.480] out-and-out number two and be happy with it. I wouldn't say be happy with it, but it'd be useful.
[44:03.280 -> 44:06.800] Mercedes have, for years, when he joined Williams,
[44:06.800 -> 44:10.740] even before then, saying that George is the next big thing.
[44:10.740 -> 44:12.160] He's the Lewis replacement.
[44:12.160 -> 44:15.760] So they've already got Lewis's replacement in the stable.
[44:15.760 -> 44:19.160] What they need is somebody who can do the marketing,
[44:19.160 -> 44:22.200] because let's face it, George is a bit bland on that front.
[44:22.200 -> 44:23.880] All right, OK, so if I'm a Mercedes fan,
[44:23.880 -> 44:26.160] though, forget the personality side of it.
[44:26.160 -> 44:31.040] When you look at the race pace, there's something happening which is that George Russell is just not
[44:31.040 -> 44:37.120] on Hamilton's level on race pace, on Pirelli tyres, it's just not there. So I think if they don't get
[44:37.120 -> 44:41.120] someone who could potentially be a number one, at the moment Mercedes are going to be leaving an
[44:41.120 -> 44:46.040] awful lot on the table on a Sunday. I'm surprised no one has mentioned,
[44:46.040 -> 44:48.280] I think this will make this the last one before we move on,
[44:48.720 -> 44:52.120] Lando Norris as a potential replacement.
[44:52.160 -> 44:55.960] Brad, you've always been a big Lando Norris advocate.
[44:56.440 -> 44:58.080] Yeah, I think he's good enough to go there.
[44:58.080 -> 45:00.440] I just don't think he would go there.
[45:00.680 -> 45:02.440] I'm not saying he'd say no.
[45:02.440 -> 45:04.600] I just haven't seen him.
[45:07.840 -> 45:13.760] I haven't ever seen Lando linked to Mercedes or showing an interest in the Mercedes family, if that makes sense. I think Lando's more
[45:13.760 -> 45:22.160] likely to go and build a team around him at Audi, but again, pure conjecture. I just haven't ever,
[45:22.160 -> 45:25.960] I haven't really ever heard Lando mentioned in the same breath as Mercedes.
[45:25.960 -> 45:32.680] This is something we've never seen is I think George Russell, Lando Norris, Alex Albon,
[45:32.680 -> 45:36.760] I'm probably forgetting a few other drivers, this whole friendship group of young drivers
[45:36.760 -> 45:39.560] coming in, no one's ever competed against the other.
[45:39.560 -> 45:40.760] That would be interesting to see.
[45:40.760 -> 45:42.680] What would that do to the relationship?
[45:42.680 -> 45:45.520] Would it bring up a Louis Nico 2016 relationship?
[45:45.520 -> 45:51.680] I've never said this before, I don't think, on the podcast, but it really annoys me how
[45:51.680 -> 45:57.200] good friends... that's that group of four, isn't it? Lando Norris, George Russell, Alex
[45:57.200 -> 46:03.480] Albarn, who else is part of that Rat Pack? Verstappen. They all just seem to get on really
[46:03.480 -> 46:05.400] well and a lot of the time it's like watching
[46:05.400 -> 46:09.380] I don't know like a stag do or a school trip and it
[46:10.200 -> 46:16.480] Irritates me how well they get on so I'm with you Jono. Let's pit them all against each other. Let's create some feud because
[46:16.920 -> 46:22.380] Yeah, obviously it's probably nice and emotionally healthy that they all get on but it's not it's not like the olden days
[46:22.380 -> 46:25.360] Is it Catman? It's not Capman? None of them are throwing helmets
[46:25.360 -> 46:26.360] at each other.
[46:26.360 -> 46:30.720] Bring back Maldonado, bit of drama, bit of excitement.
[46:30.720 -> 46:35.320] Okay then, let's move on from that. These have been some great questions and we always
[46:35.320 -> 46:40.040] love getting your feedback. We put them into a special folder in our email tray, so even
[46:40.040 -> 46:45.200] if you were to email me a question tomorrow, we would still put that in and consider it for the
[46:45.200 -> 46:51.600] next mailbag question. All right let's look through our mailbag and see who's coming up next. Okay
[46:51.600 -> 46:58.320] this is a probably a good one for for Brad as well from Corey Schender. I'm a new American F1 fan.
[46:58.320 -> 47:03.840] That's okay Corey, we like American fans and we like new fans too. Still learning about the
[47:03.840 -> 47:10.000] different qualities that drivers can bring. How much do teams consider driving styles when signing a new
[47:10.000 -> 47:12.720] driver? For example, it's been mentioned many times that Red Bull is developing in
[47:12.720 -> 47:18.160] Max's favour and maybe that's to the detriment of Perez. So shouldn't Red Bull want their
[47:18.160 -> 47:22.320] second driver to have a similar driving style to Max so that their development throughout
[47:22.320 -> 47:30.160] the season is more a benefit to both drivers? I know Brad you've covered a bit of this before, but is it a bit of a myth
[47:30.720 -> 47:36.560] that cars can suit a certain driver style or be developed towards a certain driver?
[47:36.560 -> 47:41.760] I don't think it's a myth, I think it's overblown and you're right. We've covered this before,
[47:41.760 -> 47:46.000] I'll try not to be too in-depth or boring.
[47:46.000 -> 47:49.200] But when you think about a Formula One car,
[47:49.200 -> 47:52.160] or a Formula One team, both cars in the team
[47:52.160 -> 47:55.120] are supposedly identical within reason.
[47:55.120 -> 48:00.120] Setup can be adjusted, but you can't deviate too far
[48:00.440 -> 48:02.960] from the ideal because you'll just be slower.
[48:02.960 -> 48:06.320] So there is a theoretical best setup for every car
[48:06.320 -> 48:12.400] and all Formula One cars are built to relatively strict regulation sets and they're all going to
[48:12.400 -> 48:18.640] require a pretty similar style to get the best out of them. And when you're talking about driving
[48:18.640 -> 48:23.600] style between different racing categories, you know, between GT cars and Formula One cars
[48:22.760 -> 48:25.760] racing categories, you know, between GT cars and Formula One cars, or rally, or whatever,
[48:25.760 -> 48:28.960] yes, there's wildly varying styles,
[48:28.960 -> 48:32.520] and then the more you get into a specialist type of series,
[48:32.520 -> 48:35.120] like Formula One is obviously extremely specialist,
[48:36.320 -> 48:39.160] there's a particular style which is going to work best
[48:39.160 -> 48:40.960] to get the most out of those cars.
[48:40.960 -> 48:43.160] If you zoom into an even more granular level,
[48:43.160 -> 48:44.760] yes, there are gonna be slight differences
[48:44.760 -> 48:45.200] in driver preferences, I'd say, cars. If you zoom into an even more granular level, yes, there are going to be slight differences in
[48:45.200 -> 48:50.320] in driver preferences, I'd say. It might be a better way of saying it rather than style.
[48:50.320 -> 48:56.320] And I don't think teams care too much about them as long as the driver can extract the performance
[48:56.320 -> 49:02.800] and be fast enough. And I think by the time you find those really small differences between
[49:02.800 -> 49:05.640] drivers, they're already in the team and they've spent a long time.
[49:05.640 -> 49:07.480] And obviously, there's things you can see in simulation
[49:07.480 -> 49:09.240] if they spend a long time in the simulator
[49:09.240 -> 49:11.360] before they get chosen.
[49:11.360 -> 49:14.760] But I definitely think driving style, where we say,
[49:14.760 -> 49:17.800] I don't know, Alonso really likes loads of understeer
[49:17.800 -> 49:20.640] and Hamilton loves loads of oversteer or whatever,
[49:20.640 -> 49:22.560] I think that's definitely overblown.
[49:22.560 -> 49:26.160] And I think generally, if you gave them a car
[49:26.160 -> 49:31.200] which was capable of being fast within reason, they're going to do a very similar thing.
[49:31.200 -> 49:34.480] And I've said this loads of times, I think you'd probably struggle if you painted all the cars the
[49:34.480 -> 49:39.440] same color, and they were the same shape, and you just watched each driver on board, I think you'd
[49:39.440 -> 49:44.640] really, really struggle to notice any tangible difference to the way they're making inputs,
[49:44.640 -> 49:44.880] really struggle to notice any tangible difference to the way they're making inputs,
[49:50.160 -> 49:50.320] or unless you're looking at data and literally overlaying the data and zooming in and seeing
[49:54.320 -> 49:54.360] exactly how much brake pressure a certain driver was using at a different phase of a corner.
[49:56.720 -> 49:57.240] But yeah, hopefully that answers that in some way.
[50:02.800 -> 50:03.200] Well, I have a follow up to that, Brad, which is you look at Red Bull and I don't think any driver
[50:10.000 -> 50:14.160] that they could hire has a similar driving style to Max Verstappen, because what I've noticed is these drivers who are next-level generational talents, they all seem to like a car – and excuse me if I'm wrong, Brad,
[50:14.160 -> 50:19.280] and this is why I'm asking you – they all seem to like a car that is extremely oversteery,
[50:19.280 -> 50:26.040] and the rear end drives like a go-kart. And when these drivers come in like Alex Albon, Pierre Gasly,
[50:26.040 -> 50:31.280] Sergio Perez, they can't drive a car like that, that suits Max Verstappen.
[50:31.280 -> 50:35.640] That Lewis Hamilton back in, even in 07, Lewis Hamilton was driving cars like that.
[50:35.640 -> 50:40.440] I always compare Lewis' and Max's early career driving styles to be similar.
[50:40.440 -> 50:48.000] So if Red Bull, for example, in this question from Corey, they're not considering a driving style similar to Max at all,
[50:48.000 -> 50:49.760] in terms of what their car development is.
[50:49.760 -> 50:54.080] And I think that's because that's not so much a driving style as a driving ability.
[50:54.080 -> 51:06.800] Max is just able to cope with the car in a guise in which it is capable to extract more lap time. That's not to say anything derogatory
[51:06.800 -> 51:10.600] about the driving skills of those other drivers,
[51:10.600 -> 51:13.280] but Max is clearly operating on a higher level.
[51:13.280 -> 51:14.800] Maybe it's just the way I'm referring to this,
[51:14.800 -> 51:16.000] and maybe this is semantics,
[51:16.000 -> 51:20.520] but I wouldn't consider that Perez's style is different
[51:20.520 -> 51:21.880] or Albon's style is different
[51:21.880 -> 51:26.400] so much as Max is just able to drive a car
[51:26.400 -> 51:33.160] which is in a faster state and that involves that particular car operating with a little
[51:33.160 -> 51:37.960] bit more oversteer. Because the way you describe it is Max likes loads of oversteer, he definitely
[51:37.960 -> 51:43.180] doesn't. Oversteer is a handling imbalance and it's a negative. He just likes a tiny
[51:43.180 -> 51:50.320] bit more than those other drivers we're talking about and when we discuss it loads it makes it sound like he likes it really oversteery
[51:50.320 -> 51:55.840] and they like it completely the opposite. It's really like small fractions that they're sensing
[51:55.840 -> 52:01.440] but we probably wouldn't see from the outside. Which is what I'm trying to say Brad is what is
[52:01.440 -> 52:06.560] stable for Max is extreme oversteer for anybody else in a sense.
[52:06.560 -> 52:07.560] You know what I mean?
[52:07.560 -> 52:08.880] That's what I'm trying to say here.
[52:08.880 -> 52:12.800] One of the biggest red flags I've personally seen with a driver who I think has no talent
[52:12.800 -> 52:15.440] is when they go, how are you half a second quicker than me?
[52:15.440 -> 52:17.040] I can't drive your setup.
[52:17.040 -> 52:18.040] What's going on there?
[52:18.040 -> 52:21.480] And I go, well, that's probably because you're not good.
[52:21.480 -> 52:46.780] That's generally the outlay I come out with with something like that. including TVs and appliances. And the Fred Meyer 5AM Black Friday sale is coming soon
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[54:00.240 -> 54:05.280] uh catman i was gonna say it's really easy to be smooth when you're slow like I'm
[54:05.280 -> 54:11.680] much smoother than Brad I'm sure. I keep getting that. The champ or the former
[54:11.680 -> 54:15.040] champion Danny Henney in our iRacing series go and go and check us out on
[54:15.040 -> 54:18.840] Missed Apex Motorsport. Yeah you got a really smooth style. I'm like yeah
[54:18.840 -> 54:23.200] because I'm kind of I'm being pretty careful. I'm a 42 year old dad but yeah
[54:23.200 -> 54:25.600] we're in the same zone Chris Chris. Well, that's it.
[54:25.600 -> 54:28.320] But also, don't forget, if you're talking about this,
[54:28.320 -> 54:32.040] you have to mention the 2009 World Champion Jenson Button,
[54:32.040 -> 54:34.040] because we have to remind you that, first of all,
[54:34.040 -> 54:35.920] that he won the 2009 championship
[54:35.920 -> 54:37.040] and that he won in Canada.
[54:37.040 -> 54:37.760] He won in Canada.
[54:37.760 -> 54:39.560] Did you know he won in Canada in the rain?
[54:39.560 -> 54:40.060] He did.
[54:40.060 -> 54:41.240] Do you know what?
[54:41.240 -> 54:44.960] But yeah, so he was renowned for having a very smooth driving
[54:44.960 -> 54:48.200] style that was able to extract the best out of the car.
[54:48.200 -> 54:51.320] But the problem was is that I don't think on his day
[54:51.320 -> 54:55.120] he could beat the likes of Hamilton, Verstappen,
[54:55.120 -> 54:56.680] in terms of pure pace.
[54:56.680 -> 54:59.760] Overseas and maybe with consistency.
[54:59.760 -> 55:03.600] But the smoothness thing, I think, as Brad said,
[55:03.600 -> 55:04.960] is well over egged.
[55:04.960 -> 55:06.440] On that particular example.
[55:06.700 -> 55:11.140] So I've heard, I've watched formula one for my, all my adult life.
[55:11.140 -> 55:14.980] And most of my childhood, I've watched all those races that Jensen Button,
[55:14.980 -> 55:17.280] where I think I've watched pretty much every single formula one
[55:17.280 -> 55:18.900] race since I was a young child.
[55:19.400 -> 55:22.520] And I've heard a lot of people say Jensen Button's a really smooth driver.
[55:23.020 -> 55:24.060] I've never seen that.
[55:24.160 -> 55:29.280] I'm a professional driver. I've never watched Jensen Button driving and go, oh yeah, he looks really smooth. I've just
[55:29.280 -> 55:35.200] heard people say that he's smooth. And I'm sure if I, same example, if I saw him driving a car,
[55:35.200 -> 55:39.680] a Formula One car that was painted in a blank color and you couldn't see who it was or what
[55:39.680 -> 55:45.200] the car was versus someone else who was also good doing a similar kind of lap time. I don't think I would
[55:45.200 -> 55:49.760] look at that and go, oh yeah that one's really smooth. It's only when you see extremes that
[55:49.760 -> 55:53.840] generally have a reason behind them, like there's a problem with the car or something that you're
[55:53.840 -> 55:59.200] going to see someone really driving obviously differently. So I'm going to bring in Rob Asher
[55:59.200 -> 56:06.720] from the comments that was saying that I think probably the best drivers just push the pedal a bit harder or maybe
[56:06.720 -> 56:11.080] have an extra gear like they do in the racing movies. Yeah, exactly. Click down a gear and
[56:11.080 -> 56:15.840] overtake. That's what they do. Okay, I tell you what, we're gonna end on... we've got two questions
[56:15.840 -> 56:22.200] and we've got a bit of time so there's no rush and I want to play you out with some music from
[56:22.200 -> 56:26.680] 12 Gauge Outrage who is from a patron, Michael,
[56:26.680 -> 56:31.560] but they're a very well-established band in Ireland, and I want you to go and check out
[56:31.560 -> 56:38.000] their new EP. But we have got time for these two questions. So, Mike, who I am going to
[56:38.000 -> 56:44.440] guess is relatively new to F1, says, Hi Spanners and friends from the American South West.
[56:44.440 -> 56:45.840] I don't know what towns are in
[56:45.840 -> 56:49.840] the Southwest of America. Anyone good at American? Is that where Cota is?
[56:49.840 -> 56:53.040] Texas? Texas? Okay, good. Oh, so nice and hot.
[56:53.040 -> 56:58.280] Okay. Can you give an accurate retelling of the rivalry between Hamilton and Rosberg from
[56:58.280 -> 57:02.700] the perspective of someone who was an F1 fan in 2016? Did Rosberg's championship really
[57:02.700 -> 57:05.600] destroy the friendship? Nope, that had sailed
[57:05.600 -> 57:11.680] by then. The end Hamilton had. Was the Spanish Grand Prix the flashpoint or were there other
[57:11.680 -> 57:16.160] noteworthy events between the two Mercedes drivers? I think, come on, we could definitely do this
[57:16.160 -> 57:27.040] more justice over time, but it's amazing how far away that now seems because Hamilton's had since the Verstappen rivalry, the Vettel
[57:27.600 -> 57:33.280] rivalry, the sort of uncontested years where he had to just churn through and beat Bottas. So it
[57:33.280 -> 57:40.560] feels like a long, long time ago, but at the time, extreme Mercedes domination 2014, 2015, 2016,
[57:40.560 -> 57:48.600] F1 was all about Hamilton-Rosberg, their childhood friendship in tatters very quickly after Hamilton's
[57:48.600 -> 57:50.160] 2013 move to Mercedes.
[57:50.160 -> 57:52.080] Yeah, it was incredible drama.
[57:52.080 -> 57:55.400] And I really miss Rosberg for that drama.
[57:55.400 -> 57:56.600] It was incredible.
[57:56.600 -> 58:00.320] So to make it seem even further away, a few things.
[58:00.320 -> 58:06.200] So this 2016 was the year that Verstappen was promoted to Red Bull and he won his first ever race.
[58:06.200 -> 58:07.200] So that's how long ago that was.
[58:07.200 -> 58:08.200] In Barcelona, yeah.
[58:08.200 -> 58:09.200] Yeah.
[58:09.200 -> 58:12.200] Ricciardo did his first ever shoo-ee on a podium.
[58:12.200 -> 58:13.200] Gross.
[58:13.200 -> 58:14.200] What?
[58:14.200 -> 58:15.200] No one should ever...
[58:15.200 -> 58:16.200] It's gross.
[58:16.200 -> 58:17.200] Shut up.
[58:17.200 -> 58:18.200] It's gross, Jono.
[58:18.200 -> 58:19.200] No, I was saying...
[58:19.200 -> 58:20.200] No, no, it is gross.
[58:20.200 -> 58:21.200] I do agree.
[58:21.200 -> 58:22.200] I was saying it was 2016 he did his first shoo-ee.
[58:22.200 -> 58:23.200] Yeah.
[58:23.200 -> 58:24.200] I thought it was earlier than that.
[58:24.200 -> 58:27.600] Yeah, no, it was 2016. We also welcomed Baku for the first time.
[58:27.600 -> 58:28.600] Well done, Baku.
[58:28.600 -> 58:32.720] Yeah, and the Liberty Deal was signed in 2016.
[58:32.720 -> 58:35.320] So yeah, it was a long time ago.
[58:35.320 -> 58:41.820] Yeah, and the thing is that, yeah, F1 was defined by those two kind of going at it.
[58:41.820 -> 58:46.200] And so the question from Mike is focusing in on 2016.
[58:46.200 -> 58:48.800] Like the damage was definitely done by then.
[58:48.800 -> 58:51.160] 2013 was the season where it was,
[58:51.160 -> 58:54.680] oh, they look at this picture of them riding bicycles,
[58:54.680 -> 58:59.240] shirtless together, frolicking with the water sprinklers.
[58:59.240 -> 59:00.760] They're such good, this is gonna be brilliant.
[59:00.760 -> 59:02.400] They're such good friends.
[59:02.400 -> 59:06.800] And the first cracks appeared really in Malaysia,
[59:06.800 -> 59:12.560] 2013, when they had their shiny new signing, Lewis Hamilton, and they basically didn't let
[59:12.560 -> 59:19.360] Rosberg race him. And they very clearly wanted Hamilton to get that podium to seal the decision
[59:19.360 -> 59:29.200] that they did the right thing bringing him in. And it just started to creak from there. Yeah. I think all of these friendships are great until you put your career,
[59:29.200 -> 59:34.640] your millions of pounds, your reputation on the line. Then all of a sudden, the people who have
[59:34.640 -> 59:39.840] that cutting edge, that real drive, will then just cast their friends asunder.
[59:40.720 -> 59:45.160] So Pete just said, I'm not sure Lewis and Nico ever got on, maybe not in F1, but didn't
[59:45.160 -> 59:51.920] they have this history of Lewis and Nico going to karting events together?
[59:51.920 -> 59:56.360] Yeah, they shared motor homes and they travelled together, they did the circuit together.
[59:56.360 -> 01:00:00.560] Yeah, it was a fantastic relationship when they were in karting, when nothing was on
[01:00:00.560 -> 01:00:01.680] the line.
[01:00:01.680 -> 01:00:06.600] And have you ever seen them back in 2008, as when they were both fairly new to Formula
[01:00:06.600 -> 01:00:11.060] One at the time, and they were hugging on podiums, they were on the same podium together
[01:00:11.060 -> 01:00:14.740] in Australia, I remember that year, and they had some great friendships.
[01:00:14.740 -> 01:00:19.940] And it even spanned as late to the last time I ever saw the two really get along, and this
[01:00:19.940 -> 01:00:26.240] is my last memory of the two ever looking like they were friends, was in Bahrain 2014.
[01:00:26.240 -> 01:00:31.320] And it was the first time when those two drivers had an amazing on-track battle for the lead
[01:00:31.320 -> 01:00:34.560] and for the win, which Lewis ended up winning the race.
[01:00:34.560 -> 01:00:38.280] And you had Nico Rosberg come after the race and fake punch Lewis, and they had a play
[01:00:38.280 -> 01:00:41.360] fight, you know, in the little Parc Fermé area.
[01:00:41.360 -> 01:00:43.240] And that was good, that was fun and lighthearted.
[01:00:43.240 -> 01:00:49.040] And then after that, that was the last time we ever saw them ever look like they were friends. That is worth watching that's worth
[01:00:49.040 -> 01:00:54.480] going back and watching that race because okay it's wildly from memory I think that was a two-stop
[01:00:55.040 -> 01:00:59.920] and and it was only option and prime in those days so Mercedes basically kept them apart
[01:00:59.920 -> 01:01:09.680] by doing alternate strategies so one then stayed on the prime and one went to the option, and then on the second stop, they converged or something like that. And then it was...
[01:01:09.680 -> 01:01:12.880] Go on, do you remember the tyre strategy from Bahrain 2014?
[01:01:13.600 -> 01:01:16.720] Not the tyre strategy, but there was a late safety car, which put them together.
[01:01:17.280 -> 01:01:22.400] And then the safety car went in and the dominance showed by the fact that they just...
[01:01:22.400 -> 01:01:30.480] You couldn't see the rest of the field by the second lap. That was it. That was the first race where we actually saw them at full speed, because I
[01:01:30.480 -> 01:01:34.800] think what Mercedes tended to do was kind of go, right, well, settle down. This is the position
[01:01:34.800 -> 01:01:40.000] now. Let's not show that we're 30 seconds better than everyone. And as much as Verstappen's accused
[01:01:40.000 -> 01:01:44.560] of sandbagging now, Mercedes definitely did it in the turbo hybrid era. They were almost embarrassed
[01:01:44.560 -> 01:01:48.560] by their pace. But yeah, that was an example of them being able to fly off. And Lewis
[01:01:48.560 -> 01:01:54.240] Hamilton did a mega chop across the front of Rosberg. Yeah, that might have been the beginning
[01:01:54.240 -> 01:01:59.360] of it, Brad, looking back. Yeah, I was just trying to have a quick look back at their full
[01:01:59.360 -> 01:02:06.560] teammate history together, because they did kart together in the Mercedes-Benz-McLaren, MBM the team was called,
[01:02:07.200 -> 01:02:12.480] team together. And they were both successful. I haven't got the exact results for their entire
[01:02:12.480 -> 01:02:18.160] time together, but then there was a period where they kind of broke apart in terms of
[01:02:18.160 -> 01:02:23.520] who was doing which series. So Rosberg was in GP2, I think a year before Hamilton,
[01:02:23.520 -> 01:02:25.920] and won it. And then Hamilton came in the next year and won
[01:02:25.920 -> 01:02:31.680] it so they didn't really continue that rivalry so much through single-seaters so it was kind of put
[01:02:31.680 -> 01:02:37.640] on hold until that kind of... And Rosberg got into F1 first didn't he with Williams I think? Yeah.
[01:02:37.640 -> 01:02:42.640] Jono? Which was interesting actually I was just about to mention that is that Lewis Hamilton had
[01:02:42.640 -> 01:02:45.160] a test with with Williams BMW in 2004 and he was he was gunned for, is that Lewis Hamilton had a test with Williams BMW
[01:02:45.160 -> 01:02:48.360] in 2004, and he was gunned for that drive.
[01:02:48.360 -> 01:02:50.760] Lewis never came into the sport until he was 22.
[01:02:50.760 -> 01:02:54.300] If you think about it, that is quite old these days.
[01:02:54.300 -> 01:02:59.600] Knowing Max Verstappen came in at, I think his first test was 16, race driver 17.
[01:02:59.600 -> 01:03:02.980] A big difference, but yeah, going back to what Brad said, is that their junior career
[01:03:02.980 -> 01:03:07.140] was shared a lot together, just for context for somebody who might not know the background
[01:03:07.140 -> 01:03:11.940] between these two. Their dads, and Lewis and Nico, used to hang out all the time. Obviously,
[01:03:11.940 -> 01:03:17.300] Nico's dad, KK Rosberg, F1 champion, and they used to drive to races and karting races together.
[01:03:17.300 -> 01:03:22.140] So they got a lot of history. And it's not the first time Lewis Hamilton's had a relationship
[01:03:22.140 -> 01:03:25.520] sort of destroyed in going into F1 and into adulthood.
[01:03:25.520 -> 01:03:29.600] I remember when Adrian Sutil expected him to back him up in court and Lewis didn't show
[01:03:29.600 -> 01:03:31.080] up and that sort of-
[01:03:31.080 -> 01:03:32.080] Oh, that's a drama.
[01:03:32.080 -> 01:03:33.080] God, that's going back some, isn't it?
[01:03:33.080 -> 01:03:34.080] That's a bit of a drama.
[01:03:34.080 -> 01:03:35.080] Yeah.
[01:03:35.080 -> 01:03:36.080] Sorry I brought that up.
[01:03:36.080 -> 01:03:37.080] No, no, that's it.
[01:03:37.080 -> 01:03:41.160] Well, for legal reasons, I guess I'm going to just, I'm going to brush past all of that.
[01:03:41.160 -> 01:03:46.300] So 2014 was fairly amicable, but you remember that was double points Abu
[01:03:46.300 -> 01:03:51.540] Dhabi, double points and Rosberg's gearbox failed. Although had it not been double points,
[01:03:51.540 -> 01:03:57.860] Hamilton would have been already the champion by the time they got there. And then 2015,
[01:03:57.860 -> 01:04:04.620] Hamilton starts really dominating on race pace. Rosberg gets an almost sarcastic qualifying
[01:04:04.620 -> 01:04:07.280] trophy that he sees. I remember him
[01:04:07.280 -> 01:04:11.440] being awarded with it, I mean him looking at it with scorn, like he'd lost the title but he gets
[01:04:11.440 -> 01:04:16.400] given this qualifying trophy. And then that's when you feel like the wheels start to come off. And
[01:04:16.400 -> 01:04:26.000] then 2016 is ferocious. 2016 blatantly, the camps have completely split, it's out and out war in the Mercedes garage.
[01:04:26.000 -> 01:04:31.600] Speaking of the camps being split, that was actually a feature of the winter of 2015 to
[01:04:31.600 -> 01:04:37.360] 2016 because five of Hamilton's engineers, including his number one mechanic, swapped
[01:04:37.360 -> 01:04:43.000] over from Hamilton's tied to Rosberg's side. Hamilton really wasn't impressed with that.
[01:04:43.000 -> 01:04:45.300] I think his words were, you'll have
[01:04:45.300 -> 01:04:48.880] to buy my book in 10 years time to find out exactly what happened.
[01:04:48.880 -> 01:04:50.880] Oh, that's not long. Three years.
[01:04:50.880 -> 01:04:56.920] No, exactly. I think it was more of a psychological effect for him than anything else. I think
[01:04:56.920 -> 01:05:00.840] anybody who gets into the engineering side of those teams is absolutely top of their
[01:05:00.840 -> 01:05:05.960] game. But specifically over the winter, when you're meant to be preparing
[01:05:05.960 -> 01:05:10.500] for a new season, you know, a lot of these guys are very, you know, they have to be everything
[01:05:10.500 -> 01:05:12.680] in exactly in its place.
[01:05:12.680 -> 01:05:14.280] That would be a massive shift.
[01:05:14.280 -> 01:05:17.920] And if, you know, Rosberg sitting there going, great, I've just got the last couple of years
[01:05:17.920 -> 01:05:24.480] champions mechanics and people with how he works his secrets, you know, then I can push
[01:05:24.480 -> 01:05:26.000] with this.
[01:05:26.000 -> 01:05:30.400] And Lewis has taken a step back going, well, now I've lost everything and who's this other
[01:05:30.400 -> 01:05:31.400] guy?
[01:05:31.400 -> 01:05:34.840] I work with him, but he's not my guy.
[01:05:34.840 -> 01:05:37.960] I think that would make a big step for him.
[01:05:37.960 -> 01:05:40.360] And he lost the first four races.
[01:05:40.360 -> 01:05:44.720] That was the period where Rosberg had that streak of seven race wins.
[01:05:44.720 -> 01:05:47.760] So was that contributing to it quite possibly?
[01:05:48.200 -> 01:05:53.440] And Mike's second part to his question was, was the Spanish Grand Prix,
[01:05:53.440 -> 01:05:56.880] and he's talking about 2016 here, which was Max Verstappen's first race
[01:05:56.880 -> 01:06:01.600] for Red Bull at the time, the two Mercedes teammates, Hamilton and Rosberg,
[01:06:01.600 -> 01:06:04.840] clashed into each other on the opening lap, opened the door for Verstappen
[01:06:04.840 -> 01:06:07.260] to take his first win in Formula 1.
[01:06:07.260 -> 01:06:12.960] He said, was that the flashpoint of the demise of their relationship, or were there other
[01:06:12.960 -> 01:06:15.180] noteworthy events between the two?
[01:06:15.180 -> 01:06:16.180] And there were!
[01:06:16.180 -> 01:06:22.160] And I can't remember if it was, was it 2015 Monaco, or was it 2014, where Nico Rosberg
[01:06:22.160 -> 01:06:26.620] had secured pole, and Lewis, to this day, I'm not going to speak
[01:06:26.620 -> 01:06:31.480] on Lewis's behalf, but believes that Nico deliberately drove off the track to cause
[01:06:31.480 -> 01:06:36.060] the yellow flag, as many drivers have done in the past, and that secured Rosberg's pole,
[01:06:36.060 -> 01:06:41.260] and Lewis was very unhappy, and it was a gradual sort of... there weren't any flashpoints or
[01:06:41.260 -> 01:06:47.080] turning points, but it was a gradual sort of tension that built over the few years at Mercedes.
[01:06:47.080 -> 01:06:50.200] Brad, I know you've got opinions about that Monaco qualifying.
[01:06:50.200 -> 01:06:52.760] Yeah, I mean, we've definitely discussed that one before,
[01:06:52.760 -> 01:06:54.720] because it's just not even in question.
[01:06:54.720 -> 01:06:56.280] It was 2014.
[01:06:56.280 -> 01:06:57.880] Was that 2014, the Monaco?
[01:06:57.880 -> 01:06:58.400] Oh, was it?
[01:06:58.400 -> 01:06:59.200] It was 2014, yeah.
[01:06:59.200 -> 01:07:00.120] It was 2014 or 15.
[01:07:00.120 -> 01:07:01.520] It was 2014, I just looked it up.
[01:07:01.520 -> 01:07:02.360] It's 2014.
[01:07:02.360 -> 01:07:03.000] Wow, OK.
[01:07:03.000 -> 01:07:05.680] So I had a false memory that that was 2016.
[01:07:05.680 -> 01:07:06.640] I did.
[01:07:06.640 -> 01:07:10.880] But anyway, yeah, that's not even in question. It's similar to the Perez-Monaco thing.
[01:07:10.880 -> 01:07:16.080] When you look at the driver's actions, they either are not professional drivers
[01:07:16.080 -> 01:07:18.640] or they deliberately did a thing, and there's no middle ground, really.
[01:07:19.920 -> 01:07:26.640] Yeah, so no, I think 2016 was the final chapter in that story for sure, but I think we will
[01:07:26.640 -> 01:07:33.160] have to do a full kind of race by race breakdown of 2016. I already have the show notes written
[01:07:33.160 -> 01:07:38.280] for that show, I've just never quite got around to it. I think either me, Matt and Catman,
[01:07:38.280 -> 01:07:42.600] or Mike Caulfield, who was working at Mercedes at the time, has already said that he might
[01:07:42.600 -> 01:07:48.560] join us for a show as well. So if Mike can't make it, Catman, then we'll get you.
[01:07:48.560 -> 01:07:51.760] Oh, thanks. Can I be a fly on the wall?
[01:07:53.520 -> 01:07:57.360] We'd rather have a Mercedes strategist, surely. But yeah, yeah. In fact, let's forget about Matt.
[01:07:57.360 -> 01:08:01.760] He's not here. You, me, Mike Cawthorne, and we'll do the 2016 breakdown.
[01:08:01.760 -> 01:08:05.600] All right, final question. I think this is really interesting and this is
[01:08:05.600 -> 01:08:11.600] from a Dutch sounding name, but I don't want to make any assumptions, but Karsten de Hoven.
[01:08:13.760 -> 01:08:17.840] Do you know what I'm going to say from Holland, from the Netherlands. Okay, guys,
[01:08:18.400 -> 01:08:30.960] what is the reason you guys don't fancy Red Bull? Honestly wondering where it comes from. Love your show. Peace. Questions specifically aimed at Brad and Richard. So, I think, Brad, you've made no secret that
[01:08:30.960 -> 01:08:38.000] you're not particularly a Red Bull fan. I used to be very much a fan of what Red Bull were doing.
[01:08:38.000 -> 01:08:45.280] I got slightly annoyed by Vettel's dominance because we'd just suffered through the Schumacher years. I wasn't ready for another
[01:08:45.280 -> 01:08:52.560] multiple German world champion yet at that point. But Red Bull were a, you know, they were the fun
[01:08:53.120 -> 01:08:59.200] young party team. Christian Horner, wasn't he the youngest team principal ever in Formula One?
[01:08:59.840 -> 01:09:07.480] I think I liked Christian Horner for a long, long time in F1. He's married to the second
[01:09:07.480 -> 01:09:11.960] best Spice girl, which is amazing because they're all brilliant. Posh Spice, if you
[01:09:11.960 -> 01:09:16.000] must know. We could rank them, but we'll do that another time. But they were all brilliant.
[01:09:16.000 -> 01:09:23.640] And so he's charismatic. He has been in F1 a long time. It really is only 2021 where
[01:09:23.640 -> 01:09:25.440] I suddenly went, what is going on? What is
[01:09:25.440 -> 01:09:30.280] going on with Christian Horner? And I started disliking him as a personality in F1. And
[01:09:30.280 -> 01:09:37.200] it was probably only 2021 where the team started rubbing me up the wrong way. So we know where
[01:09:37.200 -> 01:09:41.960] me and Brad stand, but Chris, where do you stand on Red Bull?
[01:09:41.960 -> 01:09:45.680] Oh, do you know what? They used to be the party team.
[01:09:45.680 -> 01:09:46.680] They did.
[01:09:46.680 -> 01:09:50.720] You know, back in those days, DC wearing his Superman cape, jumping into the pool, you
[01:09:50.720 -> 01:09:53.040] know, all of those amazing things.
[01:09:53.040 -> 01:09:57.720] It was the motor home with the banging music at the end of the race and everybody loved
[01:09:57.720 -> 01:09:58.720] Red Bull.
[01:09:58.720 -> 01:10:00.520] They were an amazing team.
[01:10:00.520 -> 01:10:08.240] And then it, as you said, it just started to spiral once they started to be, not even during the Vettel years, because they were still fun, they were still exciting back then.
[01:10:08.240 -> 01:10:18.000] Maybe, is it the multi-21 thing where they completely backed Vettel and just cast Mark Webber out into the cold, essentially, at that point?
[01:10:18.000 -> 01:10:27.520] I don't... Even then, that reflected more badly on Vettel at the time than Red Bull themselves. But Brad, is it fair to
[01:10:27.520 -> 01:10:31.600] say you've got a reputation as someone who is quite anti-Red Bull at the moment?
[01:10:31.600 -> 01:10:34.720] Brady Haran That's certainly fair to say at the moment,
[01:10:34.720 -> 01:10:45.680] but for full background, I was a guest of Red Bull at the 2011 Brazilian Grand Prix. I went to the Red Bull after party,
[01:10:45.680 -> 01:10:47.360] I spent time with staff.
[01:10:47.360 -> 01:10:52.360] I also was a, as a neutral, quite a fan of Red Bull
[01:10:54.320 -> 01:10:56.000] as a team in the early days.
[01:10:56.000 -> 01:10:57.960] And to really answer the question
[01:10:57.960 -> 01:11:02.720] of why I've cultivated a dislike,
[01:11:03.760 -> 01:11:04.840] if I could put it like that,
[01:11:04.840 -> 01:11:08.500] is simply a pattern of behavior. A pattern
[01:11:08.500 -> 01:11:14.500] of behavior by members of the team, prominent members of the team over long periods of time,
[01:11:14.500 -> 01:11:23.740] including but not limited to, I don't know quite how political I could be, certain views
[01:11:23.740 -> 01:11:26.720] on certain topics which are problematic.
[01:11:26.720 -> 01:11:34.000] Can I posit one? From Helmut Marko during the outbreak of the pandemic, we have four Formula
[01:11:34.000 -> 01:11:40.080] One drivers and eight or 10 juniors. The idea was that we would organise a camp to mentally and
[01:11:40.080 -> 01:11:50.720] physically bridge the dead time and that would come at the ideal time for the infection to come. It literally was trying to have a COVID camp. Yeah, and really I would see that as one of the
[01:11:51.600 -> 01:12:00.320] lesser things that Marco has said or done which are problematic. I can't quite say what I want
[01:12:00.320 -> 01:12:04.960] to say for fear because I haven't okayed it with you before the show, but there are other views
[01:12:04.080 -> 01:12:12.640] what I want to say for fear, because I haven't okayed it with you before the show, but there are other views which are, which team members and Horner being one of them have expressed, which
[01:12:12.640 -> 01:12:21.520] I don't agree with. And that adds to the season of gaslighting we got in 2021 on every possible
[01:12:21.520 -> 01:12:26.560] issue. The, the kind of reputation assassination of Hamilton after Silverstone 2021.
[01:12:26.560 -> 01:12:30.400] That's the one I was going to bring up, saying that he tried to murder Verstappen.
[01:12:30.400 -> 01:12:34.480] That, I think that's one of the ones that made me go, whoa, mate, that, we're talking about
[01:12:35.520 -> 01:12:39.440] bringing the sport into disrepute. I don't understand how that was allowed and how that
[01:12:39.440 -> 01:12:43.840] didn't have any further actions. That's the one that stood out for me. And I think at that point,
[01:12:43.840 -> 01:12:48.880] Brad, I had not yet, you know, at that point, I was not yet feeling kind of how I ended up feeling
[01:12:48.880 -> 01:12:53.840] at the end of the season. There was also false equivocation of racist abuse that Hamilton was
[01:12:53.840 -> 01:12:59.520] getting with Max Verstappen having people who didn't like him for completely unrelated reasons
[01:12:59.520 -> 01:13:03.440] that Horner came out with. That certainly rubbed a few people up the wrong way,
[01:13:04.720 -> 01:13:11.440] came out with that certainly rubbed a few people up the wrong way including me when I heard him say that and then we can go on to the way they handled themselves at the
[01:13:11.440 -> 01:13:17.320] final round of 2021. I mean this was just after Verstappen constantly being a complete
[01:13:17.320 -> 01:13:22.680] terrorist on track all season and getting away with it. You've got Brazil 2021 where
[01:13:22.680 -> 01:13:26.560] they just completely get away with something which is a clear penalty,
[01:13:26.560 -> 01:13:32.800] brake testing at Jeddah which is a disqualification all day long and again just getting away with it,
[01:13:32.800 -> 01:13:38.320] then cost cap breach and getting away with it in you know a cost cap breach in a season which was
[01:13:38.320 -> 01:13:46.480] finely balanced and they got handed the championship unfairly at the end anyway. It's just thing after thing after thing
[01:13:46.480 -> 01:13:51.520] added to a general attitude that I just don't like. So I think that's probably...
[01:13:51.520 -> 01:13:56.560] I asked, I asked, I passed on the question from Carsten, different Carsten by the way,
[01:13:56.560 -> 01:14:03.360] and the counter to that of course is that they were gunning for their driver and they were doing
[01:14:03.360 -> 01:14:05.200] what was best for their team
[01:14:05.200 -> 01:14:11.400] and playing the referee is hardly new. I'm sure Charlie Whiting, the ex-race director,
[01:14:11.400 -> 01:14:16.120] had as much pressure from teams as Michael Massey had, but it seems like Michael Massey
[01:14:16.120 -> 01:14:23.520] crumbled and seemed very much to be swayed by that very forceful playing of the referee.
[01:14:23.520 -> 01:14:25.440] It was like the equivalent of 10 Man United
[01:14:25.440 -> 01:14:28.800] players, you know, crowding the referee and the referee getting overwhelmed going, Oh,
[01:14:28.800 -> 01:14:32.160] man, I'm at Old Trafford. Okay, fair enough. Fair enough. I don't I don't want to look
[01:14:32.160 -> 01:14:39.520] stupid here. So we I mean, the question was asked, and that is our personal views. I mean,
[01:14:39.520 -> 01:14:44.000] Catman, can you can you kind of soften that a bit? Because here's how I feel. I feel like
[01:14:44.000 -> 01:14:45.680] the way the Red Bull management
[01:14:45.680 -> 01:14:46.900] have gone about things,
[01:14:46.900 -> 01:14:48.560] and the way that Brad has described,
[01:14:48.560 -> 01:14:50.440] has actually done harm to Max Verstappen's
[01:14:50.440 -> 01:14:51.820] reputation as well.
[01:14:51.820 -> 01:14:55.020] If you put Verstappen in a Mercedes McLaren
[01:14:55.020 -> 01:14:57.680] type environment, I don't think he'd have attracted
[01:14:57.680 -> 01:15:02.680] as much kind of, well, hate or anti-fanness than he has.
[01:15:05.440 -> 01:15:12.240] well, hate or anti-fan-ness than he has. Absolutely. And I can give you two softeners here. The first one is that they were just
[01:15:12.240 -> 01:15:17.760] defending their driver, their team employee against accusations and things that were happening,
[01:15:17.760 -> 01:15:22.160] which you may or may not agree with, but they certainly back their man to the hilt.
[01:15:23.840 -> 01:15:26.300] Which I say, I'm on the same camp as you.
[01:15:26.300 -> 01:15:27.780] I don't agree with what they did.
[01:15:27.780 -> 01:15:30.260] I don't like the way they went about it.
[01:15:30.260 -> 01:15:37.700] However, the other softener is that the top brass at that team, so you got your three,
[01:15:37.700 -> 01:15:50.440] I don't believe that they speak for the rest of the team employees. I know that a lot of good Red Bull guys are there to compete fairly and compete well and
[01:15:50.440 -> 01:15:52.120] are very, very nice people.
[01:15:52.120 -> 01:15:55.240] We've had a couple on the podcast, for example.
[01:15:55.240 -> 01:16:00.320] And I don't, you know, they're fantastic people and sure, they might cheat at my quizzes,
[01:16:00.320 -> 01:16:04.440] but I don't think that they go out of their way to do it in the sport.
[01:16:04.440 -> 01:16:06.160] So I think it's unfortunately,
[01:16:06.160 -> 01:16:09.280] as you said, a couple of bad apples spoiling the batch.
[01:16:10.160 -> 01:16:16.800] So with Horner, it was such a gear change in 2021. You could say it's the pressure of competition.
[01:16:17.360 -> 01:16:22.000] I wonder as well how much pressure there was from above on Christian Horner. So I reckon
[01:16:22.720 -> 01:16:29.840] it feels like he was under a lot of pressure. He really pushed hard. His interviews with Sky were like really like, you know, and it's
[01:16:29.840 -> 01:16:35.240] things like that as well, you know, the boycotting of Sky because Ted Kravitz dared to say that
[01:16:35.240 -> 01:16:42.720] Lewis Hamilton was robbed of the championship. It feels like Horner would, that's not his
[01:16:42.720 -> 01:16:48.480] natural state in 2021. And if 2021 had not happened, I think he'd still be
[01:16:48.480 -> 01:16:55.840] more generally liked, if that makes sense. Jono? I was just going to agree with you. Christian was
[01:16:55.840 -> 01:17:01.520] at a point where I think he was a lot of people's favourite team manager or team principal, if I'm
[01:17:01.520 -> 01:17:05.400] not mistaken, even during the dominant phases of Sebastian Vettel.
[01:17:05.400 -> 01:17:09.760] So the pressure is something that's interesting that I never thought about.
[01:17:09.760 -> 01:17:14.680] And 2021 was such a tense year as well, because like you mentioned, they hadn't won anything
[01:17:14.680 -> 01:17:17.760] since 2013, so it was almost a 10-year gap.
[01:17:17.760 -> 01:17:20.160] And you're thinking, well, is Christian's job at risk?
[01:17:20.160 -> 01:17:21.160] What's going on here?
[01:17:21.160 -> 01:17:22.840] Adrian Newey, what's happened to him?
[01:17:22.840 -> 01:17:24.200] Is he getting back involved with the team?
[01:17:24.200 -> 01:17:29.360] So that sort of changed a lot, and everything there, but for Red Bull it was more, like
[01:17:29.360 -> 01:17:35.760] to add to the point you guys said, and to add to the softening of what Catman said,
[01:17:35.760 -> 01:17:38.160] my conclusion is, I miss 2021.
[01:17:38.160 -> 01:17:39.560] Can we bring that back again?
[01:17:39.560 -> 01:17:42.520] Can we relive that season somehow?
[01:17:42.520 -> 01:17:46.720] Because that, to me, is something something that it's nothing to do with
[01:17:46.720 -> 01:17:51.460] the domination, it's nothing to do with anything they've done but it's to do with what they're
[01:17:51.460 -> 01:17:52.460] saying and the culture.
[01:17:52.460 -> 01:17:55.440] And there's one more thing I want to say, I was going back just a little bit more which
[01:17:55.440 -> 01:18:00.840] was something you mentioned about it's not particularly Verstappen that people don't
[01:18:00.840 -> 01:18:08.680] like or anything like that but it's people create your culture and if Verstappappen comes in and Horn is acting a certain way and Helmut Marko talks this
[01:18:08.680 -> 01:18:13.400] way, they all contribute to each other and they all contribute to the culture they brought
[01:18:13.400 -> 01:18:15.800] to how people view that team at the moment.
[01:18:15.800 -> 01:18:18.440] So I mean, look at Lewis Hamilton.
[01:18:18.440 -> 01:18:22.640] And not to compare the two, these are the two rivals we try to compare.
[01:18:22.640 -> 01:18:24.080] He's been a very fair person.
[01:18:24.080 -> 01:18:25.360] He tries to be as fair as possible.
[01:18:26.480 -> 01:18:27.520] To a fault.
[01:18:27.520 -> 01:18:31.280] Come across the way he does in media and he has a different reputation for it.
[01:18:31.280 -> 01:18:33.120] Sort of waffling there a little bit, but you get my point.
[01:18:33.120 -> 01:18:40.000] Look, and I think Brad and I also have to accept that as sports fans in 2021, we were cheering for
[01:18:40.000 -> 01:18:45.280] Mercedes and Lewis Hamilton and that's going to kind of influence that. But I do feel like if I
[01:18:45.280 -> 01:18:51.600] was a Verstappen fan, I don't think that Mercedes did the same kind of things that would make you
[01:18:51.600 -> 01:18:56.800] go, oh, rabble, rabble, rabble. Catman, you were shaking your head. You're about to slam me down.
[01:18:56.800 -> 01:19:10.080] Oh, no, I was just saying, Jono was saying, let's bring back 2021. No, even before Abu Dhabi, I hated 2021. It had all that, yeah, it had all
[01:19:10.080 -> 01:19:16.000] the potential of two different teams fighting for the title. The problem was, is that the racing
[01:19:16.000 -> 01:19:20.960] wasn't good. It was terrible. It was terrible. Because you didn't, you couldn't have boundaries
[01:19:20.960 -> 01:19:26.320] which you could respect. So you, you couldn't fight fairly. Bring back 2014,
[01:19:26.320 -> 01:19:30.320] that race we were talking about earlier on the Bahrain duel in the desert. They fought hard,
[01:19:30.320 -> 01:19:35.520] but they fought fair. That was what it was. And the problem was, is that the FIA or the
[01:19:35.520 -> 01:19:40.800] governing body did not clamp down on poor fighting, which has led to be fair to us,
[01:19:40.800 -> 01:19:51.760] has given us plenty of podcasts where we can debate the rules of racing. So, you know, fine. No, and this is it. I've said, like, the 2021, the racing wasn't good. It all just ended in
[01:19:51.760 -> 01:19:56.240] somebody getting shoved off track and the FIA never penalised it. The stewards never penalised
[01:19:56.240 -> 01:20:01.520] it. And so that was not on Verstappen. Because why wouldn't you? If you're allowed to drive
[01:20:01.520 -> 01:20:05.880] aggressively like that, why wouldn't you do that? And in fact, the thing I said after 2021
[01:20:05.880 -> 01:20:09.040] was every driver now needs to drive like Verstappen
[01:20:09.040 -> 01:20:10.800] unless they change those rules.
[01:20:10.800 -> 01:20:11.800] Exactly.
[01:20:11.800 -> 01:20:13.760] We were begging for halfway through the season
[01:20:13.760 -> 01:20:16.160] for Hamilton to shove Verstappen off and go,
[01:20:16.160 -> 01:20:18.000] right, I've had enough of this.
[01:20:18.000 -> 01:20:20.880] Yeah, and you know, we did it before with Rosberg as well,
[01:20:20.880 -> 01:20:22.440] because Hamilton used to do that, you know,
[01:20:22.440 -> 01:20:23.280] not quite as bad,
[01:20:23.280 -> 01:20:28.840] but he used to do the maneuvering Rosberg off the track. And we used to say, as Hamilton fans even,
[01:20:28.840 -> 01:20:32.340] we were saying, Rosberg, we want him to hold his ground. We want to see what happens if
[01:20:32.340 -> 01:20:37.200] he holds his ground and just Hamilton drives into him, because that would have been Hamilton's
[01:20:37.200 -> 01:20:41.720] fault, or you would have hoped so, although the new rules now seem to say that you're
[01:20:41.720 -> 01:20:49.440] kind of allowed to do that. So that was interesting, And as Mark Greenauld points out, I am looking forward to my inbox tomorrow morning. Okay,
[01:20:49.440 -> 01:20:56.560] so feedback at missapex.net. These are all opinions. We're all passionate fans. 2021,
[01:20:56.560 -> 01:21:00.980] we had our hearts in our mouths for nearly all of that season. So you can't deny that
[01:21:00.980 -> 01:21:06.320] it wasn't exciting. It was of course incredibly divisive and we're
[01:21:06.320 -> 01:21:11.760] on one side of the echo chamber. So perhaps people will email us and go, no, actually
[01:21:11.760 -> 01:21:17.480] Mercedes are evil and Toto Wolf and his anti-desk agenda need reining in.
[01:21:17.480 -> 01:21:23.600] Boze, the earphone manufacturer, do not like him because he smashed up so many pairs of
[01:21:23.600 -> 01:21:24.600] them.
[01:21:24.600 -> 01:21:27.000] Oh, they do. Because we all know the name of the earphones, don't we?
[01:21:27.000 -> 01:21:28.000] That's true.
[01:21:28.000 -> 01:21:32.480] Pete in the Slack just said, I think respect was missing, going back to 2021 between the
[01:21:32.480 -> 01:21:35.640] two teams, and I- can I just point out a quick funny anecdote?
[01:21:35.640 -> 01:21:41.720] I think that, uh, that was one of the good parts about it, because it brought, sort of,
[01:21:41.720 -> 01:21:46.960] people against each other, but it also brought the sport together. You know, controversy, and people competing.
[01:21:46.960 -> 01:21:51.720] I've commentated once, this is a true story, I've commented on a 60 year old plus racing
[01:21:51.720 -> 01:21:56.880] series before, and the post-race interviews were so nice, I was sitting there going like,
[01:21:56.880 -> 01:21:57.880] are you serious?
[01:21:57.880 -> 01:22:00.520] Like, come on, can you guys start blasting off each other a little bit?
[01:22:00.520 -> 01:22:01.520] ALICE Yeah.
[01:22:01.520 -> 01:22:10.640] You definitely wouldn't want to get to the point where you go, hey, Red Bull, you shouldn't compete or care. So, you know, that is part and parcel of a professional sport. I feel like doing
[01:22:10.640 -> 01:22:16.080] a fluff topic so that we're not ending it on such an emotional point, but we have reached the natural
[01:22:16.080 -> 01:22:22.240] end point. So I am just going to say go and follow our panel at CatmanF1 on Twitter. Go and follow
[01:22:22.240 -> 01:22:27.760] Brad, he's got a YouTube channel. I forget, Brad, you're still being young and trendy, so it's Brad or is it Bradley Philpott?
[01:22:27.760 -> 01:22:31.280] Yeah, so all my social media really nowadays is Brad Philpott.
[01:22:31.280 -> 01:22:32.320] Ah, you're going for Brad.
[01:22:32.320 -> 01:22:38.160] Because it shaves off like three years from my actual age. But yeah, I'm doing some karting at
[01:22:38.160 -> 01:22:44.480] the moment. I just published a video a few days ago about my experience of karting in a new series
[01:22:44.480 -> 01:22:46.080] in the UK, Low Cost Kart
[01:22:46.080 -> 01:22:50.800] Championship, which I'm doing with Alex Van Geen at the next round. And I believe you're also coming
[01:22:50.800 -> 01:22:55.520] to do a test in those same karts. I'm terrified. I'm used to rental karts with their nice, lovely
[01:22:55.520 -> 01:23:01.760] bumpers all the way around. A proper open, exposed wheel kart is somewhat daunting. This will
[01:23:01.760 -> 01:23:05.200] definitely be the closest thing to a single seseater. I think you'll have driven
[01:23:05.840 -> 01:23:12.200] In you know in anger, so yeah, so go and check out my youtube channel Brad Philpot if you'd like to see that series
[01:23:12.200 -> 01:23:15.680] Yeah, and that's the Saturday that I'm doing that the Saturday before Monza
[01:23:15.680 -> 01:23:20.620] So I I'm pretty sure I'm you know there's a 50-50 chance
[01:23:20.620 -> 01:23:25.880] I'll die so Matt will be with you for the Muntzer Grand Prix. Jonathan Simon,
[01:23:25.880 -> 01:23:29.240] you are Johnny S8 on Twitter.
[01:23:29.240 -> 01:23:37.320] Yes, but the S is an ESS, and the 8 is the actual numeric 8. Let's not talk about that
[01:23:37.320 -> 01:23:42.720] again. I'm on Twitter, I'm on Instagram, I'm on threads. Is it called Twitter anymore?
[01:23:42.720 -> 01:23:43.720] It's called X now.
[01:23:43.720 -> 01:23:45.520] Yeah, X Twitter, Yeah, we're good.
[01:23:45.520 -> 01:23:50.520] You could rebrand the Earth to Smudgeabow and it's still Earth.
[01:23:50.520 -> 01:23:52.520] That's how we think about it.
[01:23:52.520 -> 01:23:55.520] You could give me a funny nickname, and I'm still Richard,
[01:23:55.520 -> 01:23:58.520] but if you want to follow me at Spanners Ready on all the stuff
[01:23:58.520 -> 01:24:03.520] and follow Miss Apex on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube.
[01:24:03.520 -> 01:24:05.980] YouTube, subscribe to the YouTube.
[01:24:05.980 -> 01:24:07.400] We're putting up YouTube shorts
[01:24:07.400 -> 01:24:09.080] because I saw my kids were addicted to it.
[01:24:09.080 -> 01:24:11.600] So I thought that I would put some YouTube shorts up
[01:24:11.600 -> 01:24:13.360] and try and jump onto their reel.
[01:24:13.360 -> 01:24:16.240] So I'm basically going to ruin their fun on YouTube shorts
[01:24:16.240 -> 01:24:18.000] by having dad pop up on it.
[01:24:18.000 -> 01:24:19.620] Does that just mean you're going to be standing
[01:24:19.620 -> 01:24:21.920] on a video YouTube in your shorts?
[01:24:21.920 -> 01:24:24.160] Yeah, I think I'm pretty sure that's how it works, Catman.
[01:24:24.160 -> 01:24:29.600] And if you've got this far into all of that mailbagging debate, you might want to consider supporting us to keep
[01:24:29.600 -> 01:24:35.600] this going. Patreon.com forward slash missed apex. Now then, one of our patrons, Michael,
[01:24:35.600 -> 01:24:43.520] is part of a fantastic heavy metal band called 12 Gauge Outrage. And I'd like to play you a couple
[01:24:43.520 -> 01:24:50.920] of minutes of a song from their latest EP. So get ready to experience the electrifying energy of 12 Gauge Outrage,
[01:24:50.920 -> 01:25:00.480] a talented metal band hailing from County Wexford formed in 2012. The band has built
[01:25:00.480 -> 01:25:07.200] a dedicated following on the modern metal scene. These are a proper gigging band
[01:25:07.200 -> 01:25:12.200] if you want to support local music and musicians that are actually out there grinding week
[01:25:12.200 -> 01:25:17.040] in week out in the pubs and clubs then go out and check out their album. I'll put a
[01:25:17.040 -> 01:25:33.360] link in the show notes. But this is a song called, my son picked it out and did the video for this by the way, but I hope you enjoy it. It's super heavy and it's super loud. I'm warning you, it's heavy metal. Bye!
[01:25:33.360 -> 01:26:12.000] Work hard, be kind, have fun! ♪ Made in the fall of worlds of the forgotten sun
[01:26:12.000 -> 01:26:14.000] Slaves are the signs of wrath
[01:26:15.000 -> 01:26:18.000] The end comes inside my soul, my voice is my tool
[01:26:18.000 -> 01:26:20.000] Say what you want to say
[01:26:21.000 -> 01:26:24.000] Fall on your knees and pray
[01:26:26.000 -> 01:26:30.000] Shame on your knees and pray Shame on your spacious day
[01:26:33.000 -> 01:27:05.500] The EP is called Siren and it's out now. 12-gauge Outrage. You've had enough, you've had enough, you've had enough No! Send the boy! He's coming here! Send the weapon he's on!
[01:27:06.500 -> 01:27:07.500] Unlock!
[01:27:07.500 -> 01:27:09.000] Unlock your self-control!
[01:27:09.000 -> 01:27:10.000] Unlock!
[01:27:10.000 -> 01:27:12.000] Unlock your self-control!
[01:27:12.000 -> 01:27:13.500] Send the boy!
[01:27:13.500 -> 01:27:15.000] He's coming here!
[01:27:15.000 -> 01:27:17.000] Send the weapon he's on!
[01:27:17.500 -> 01:27:19.000] Staying back from Max's back
[01:27:19.000 -> 01:27:20.500] Eyes on the broken world
[01:27:20.500 -> 01:27:22.000] Steel eyes and broken tongue
[01:27:23.500 -> 01:27:26.420] Laying down a moral rap A l a life born of doubt ♪
[01:27:26.420 -> 01:27:29.340] ♪ Make you what you want to be ♪
[01:27:29.340 -> 01:27:34.340] ♪ Fall on your knees and pray, oh ♪
[01:27:34.920 -> 01:27:39.420] ♪ Shame on your speech, just stay sane ♪
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