Strategy Storms & Racing In The Rain

Spanners and Trumpets sit down with resident strategy expert Mike Caufield to have a look at how team strategies influenced the 2022 season, and then they introduce new podcast pal, Youtuber, content creator and sim racer, Aiden Millward for a deep dive into the dangers of racing in the rain, and what can be done to improve things for both the drivers and the fans.

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Sure, here is a summary of the podcast transcript:

**Introduction:**

- Spanners and Matt sit down with strategy expert Mike Caufield to discuss how team strategies influenced the 2022 season.
- They introduce new podcast pal, Youtuber, content creator, and sim racer Aiden Millward to delve into the dangers of racing in the rain and potential improvements for drivers and fans.

**Segment 1: Strategy in the 2022 Season:**

- Spanners and Matt discuss the impact of strategy on the outcome of races, citing examples of Mercedes' strategy for Lewis Hamilton at the Kota race and the general excitement surrounding strategy decisions.
- They acknowledge the difficulty armchair strategists face in making these decisions, especially considering the vast experience of race strategists like Mike Caulfield.

**Segment 2: Interview with Mike Caulfield:**

- Mike Caulfield joins the show to discuss various strategy-related topics.
- He explains the potential implications of the proposed success ballast rule, which aims to reduce the advantage of leading cars, potentially leading to slower-paced races and drivers avoiding the lead position.
- Mike highlights the complexity of strategy decisions, emphasizing the need for simulations and considering factors such as car weight, tire degradation, and overtaking opportunities.
- He shares insights into the challenges of communicating with drivers about managing their pace and tire usage, given their natural inclination to push hard.
- Mike discusses the role of race engineers in developing strategies and the importance of building relationships with drivers to understand their capabilities and preferences.
- He addresses the instances where drivers override strategy calls, acknowledging the value of driver input but emphasizing the need for a comprehensive understanding of the race situation.

**Segment 3: The Dangers of Racing in the Rain:**

- The podcast introduces Aiden Millward, a Youtuber, content creator, and sim racer, to discuss the challenges and risks associated with racing in wet conditions.
- Aiden shares his experiences and observations from sim racing and karting, highlighting the reduced grip, increased risk of aquaplaning, and the importance of driver skill and car setup.
- He emphasizes the need for drivers to adapt their driving style, reduce speed, and increase following distances in wet races.
- Aiden suggests improvements such as better drainage systems, spray reduction devices, and the use of intermediate tires to enhance safety and visibility during wet races.

**Conclusion:**

- The podcast wraps up with a discussion on the overall message and takeaways from the episode, emphasizing the importance of strategy, communication, and adaptability in Formula One racing. Sure, here's a summary of the podcast episode transcript:

**Introduction:**

* The hosts, Spanners, and Trumpets, along with guest expert Mike Caufield, a former F1 strategist, discuss the impact of team strategies on the 2022 season.
* They also welcome a new guest, YouTuber, content creator, and sim racer Aiden Millward, to delve into the challenges and potential solutions for racing in wet conditions.

**Key Points:**

1. **Tire Strategy:**
- Tire strategy plays a crucial role in F1, as different tires perform differently on various tracks and in varying weather conditions.
- Teams must carefully analyze data and make informed decisions about tire selection and pit stops to optimize their performance.
- Incorrect tire choices can lead to suboptimal strategies, lost positions, and reduced competitiveness.

2. **Impact of Blue Flags:**
- Blue flags are used to signal lapped cars to allow the leaders to pass.
- Blue flags can significantly affect race strategy, especially for midfield teams battling for positions.
- Drivers may need to adjust their pit stop strategies to avoid losing time behind slower cars or potentially gain an advantage by pitting during a blue flag period.
- The hosts discuss the potential benefits of eliminating blue flags in F1 and its impact on race strategy and overtaking.

3. **Wet Weather Racing Challenges:**
- Aiden Millward joins the discussion to provide insights into the difficulties of racing in wet conditions.
- Wet tires have different performance characteristics compared to dry tires, affecting grip, traction, and overall car handling.
- Drivers must adapt their driving style and be cautious to avoid aquaplaning and loss of control.
- Safety concerns arise in wet races, leading to discussions about the need for improved visibility, better drainage systems, and appropriate safety car procedures.

4. **Improving Wet Weather Racing:**
- The hosts and Aiden Millward explore potential solutions to enhance wet weather racing.
- They suggest modifications to car designs, such as wheel covers or modified wings, to reduce spray and improve visibility.
- The use of intermediate tires, which offer better performance than wet tires in slightly damp conditions, is also discussed.
- The hosts emphasize the importance of finding a balance between safety and entertainment in wet races.

5. **Conclusion:**
- The podcast highlights the complexities of F1 strategy, particularly in wet weather conditions.
- The hosts and guests provide valuable insights into the challenges faced by teams and drivers, as well as potential solutions to improve the spectacle of wet races for fans.

**Overall Message:**
The podcast emphasizes the significance of strategy, particularly tire selection and pit stop timing, in Formula One racing. It explores the challenges and potential solutions for racing in wet conditions, aiming to enhance safety and entertainment for both drivers and fans. **Section 1: Examining the Dangers of Racing in the Rain**

* **Visibility Issues:**
* Drivers often experience poor visibility due to heavy rain and spray from other cars, making it difficult to see the track and other competitors.
* The spray from the rear tires of the cars ahead can create a blinding effect, obscuring the view of the drivers behind.
* This lack of visibility can lead to accidents, as drivers may not be able to react in time to avoid collisions.

* **Aquaplaning:**
* When the tires of a car lose contact with the road surface due to a layer of water, it is known as aquaplaning.
* Aquaplaning can cause a car to lose control and spin out, potentially leading to accidents.
* The risk of aquaplaning increases with the amount of standing water on the track and the speed of the car.

* **Reduced Grip Levels:**
* The presence of water on the track reduces the grip levels, making it more difficult for drivers to maintain control of their cars.
* This can lead to loss of traction, oversteer, and understeer, increasing the likelihood of accidents.

* **Increased Risk of Hydroplaning:**
* Hydroplaning occurs when a car's tires ride on top of a layer of water rather than making contact with the road surface.
* Hydroplaning can cause a car to lose control and spin out, potentially leading to accidents.
* The risk of hydroplaning increases with the amount of standing water on the track and the speed of the car.

**Section 2: Strategies for Improving Safety in Wet Races**

* **Starting Races Under the Safety Car:**
* Starting races under the safety car can help to reduce the risk of accidents in wet conditions.
* This allows the track to dry out somewhat and gives drivers a chance to get a feel for the conditions before racing begins.
* However, safety car starts can also lead to boring races, as drivers may be hesitant to overtake due to the increased risk of accidents.

* **Use of Wet-Weather Tires:**
* Wet-weather tires are designed to provide better grip and traction in wet conditions.
* These tires have deeper treads and a softer compound that helps to evacuate water from the contact patch.
* The use of wet-weather tires can significantly improve the safety of racing in the rain.

* **Adjustable Rear Wings:**
* Adjustable rear wings can be used to reduce the amount of spray generated by a car.
* By adjusting the angle of the rear wing, teams can reduce the amount of downforce generated by the car, which in turn reduces the amount of spray.
* This can help to improve visibility for drivers following behind.

* **Mudguards:**
* Mudguards can be attached to the rear wheels of a car to help reduce the amount of spray generated.
* These mudguards can help to deflect the spray away from the cars behind, improving visibility.
* However, mudguards can also add weight to the car and potentially affect its aerodynamic performance.

**Section 3: The Future of Wet Races in Formula One**

* **Scheduling Races to Avoid Wet Weather:**
* Formula One could consider scheduling races to avoid periods of the year when wet weather is more likely.
* This would help to reduce the risk of accidents and improve the safety of racing in the rain.

* **Developing New Technologies:**
* Formula One teams and the FIA could work together to develop new technologies that can improve safety in wet races.
* This could include the development of new tire compounds, aerodynamic devices, and safety systems.

* **Educating Drivers:**
* Formula One drivers could receive additional training and education on how to drive safely in wet conditions.
* This could help drivers to better understand the risks and challenges of racing in the rain and how to mitigate those risks. **Navigating the Challenges of Wet Weather Racing in Formula One: A Discussion with Aiden Millward**

In this episode of the Missed Apex podcast, the hosts, Spanners and Trumpets, delve into the complexities of wet weather racing in Formula One, exploring the dangers it poses to drivers and the strategies teams employ to mitigate risks. They are joined by special guest Aiden Millward, a YouTuber, content creator, and sim racer, who shares his insights on the topic.

**The Perils of Wet Weather Racing**

Millward emphasizes the heightened risks associated with racing in wet conditions, highlighting the reduced grip levels and visibility as primary concerns. He explains that drivers must adapt their driving style, braking later and accelerating more gradually to maintain control of their cars. The unpredictable nature of wet weather also poses a challenge, as drivers must contend with constantly changing track conditions.

**Strategies for Success in Wet Weather**

The discussion shifts to the strategies teams use to optimize performance in wet weather races. Millward points out that teams often opt for full wet tires, which provide better grip and traction on soaked tracks. However, he notes that the timing of tire changes is crucial, as drivers must balance the need for fresh tires with the risk of losing positions during pit stops.

**Improving Safety in Wet Weather Races**

The conversation then turns to potential improvements in safety during wet weather races. Millward suggests the use of spray reduction systems on cars to improve visibility for drivers following closely behind. He also advocates for the development of better wet weather tires that offer increased grip without compromising durability.

**The Human Element in Wet Weather Racing**

The hosts and Millward acknowledge the significant role that driver skill plays in wet weather conditions. They emphasize the importance of experience and adaptability, as drivers must be able to adjust their driving style and make quick decisions in challenging circumstances.

**Conclusion**

The episode concludes with a reflection on the overall message conveyed by the discussion. The hosts and Millward underscore the inherent dangers of wet weather racing in Formula One, emphasizing the need for continuous efforts to improve safety and support drivers in these demanding conditions. They also highlight the remarkable skill and courage displayed by drivers who excel in wet weather races, recognizing their exceptional ability to navigate the unique challenges posed by unpredictable and treacherous track conditions.

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[01:02.380 -> 01:05.000] A cast powers, the world's best podcasts.
[01:05.000 -> 01:09.680] Here's a show that we recommend.
[01:09.680 -> 01:10.680] I'm DeLon Grant.
[01:10.680 -> 01:16.120] And I'm Francesca Ramsey, and together we host the podcast, Let Me Fix It, where each
[01:16.120 -> 01:20.520] week we dig into celebrities, brands, and ideas from the past, and then we pitch how
[01:20.520 -> 01:21.560] we would fix them.
[01:21.560 -> 01:29.560] And to close out 2023, we're hosting our very first Glow Up Awards, where we honor the celebs,
[01:29.560 -> 01:31.560] moments, and ideas who have turned things around
[01:31.560 -> 01:33.120] for themselves without our help.
[01:33.120 -> 01:35.840] And these categories are fantastic.
[01:35.840 -> 01:39.280] They include same old celeb, brand new face.
[01:39.280 -> 01:41.120] And here on Let Me Fix It, we love a word,
[01:41.120 -> 01:43.160] so we have word of the year.
[01:43.160 -> 01:45.040] And you will never guess who we donned the we have word of the year and you will never guess who we
[01:45.040 -> 01:50.120] donned the winner of podcast of the year listen to let me fix it wherever you get
[01:50.120 -> 01:58.760] your favorite podcasts and tune in to our glow up awards a cast helps creators
[01:58.760 -> 02:11.000] launch grow and monetize their podcast everywhere. AKES.com You are listening to Missed Apex Podcast.
[02:11.000 -> 02:37.920] We live F1. G'day and welcome to Missed Apex Podcast.
[02:37.920 -> 02:42.040] I'm Uncle Steve and I'm here in the podcasting broom cupboard just putting the finishing
[02:42.040 -> 02:49.400] touches on today's Missed Apex magazine program. During the week Spanners and Matt put together some great interview
[02:49.400 -> 02:54.240] segments that I'm sure you're really going to enjoy. But before we get to that
[02:54.240 -> 02:58.480] just a reminder that we are an independent podcast produced in the
[02:58.480 -> 03:03.120] podcasting shed or broom cupboard as the case may be with the kind permission of
[03:03.120 -> 03:08.200] our other halves. We may be wrong, but we're first.
[03:10.080 -> 03:12.400] As I said, today's show is another of our
[03:12.600 -> 03:17.400] missed Apex magazine shows with some great F1 related information and interviews.
[03:17.600 -> 03:20.200] Later, we'll be introducing a new podcast
[03:20.400 -> 03:29.640] pal, YouTuber and sim racer Aiden Millwood, for a look at the problems that arise on track when the wet stuff starts falling. But first, Spanners caught up
[03:29.640 -> 03:34.120] with our resident strategy expert Mike Caulfield for a deep dive into the
[03:34.120 -> 03:39.120] various strategy storms that erupted during the season.
[03:41.920 -> 03:49.960] Hi guys, Spanners here for a magazine show segment. Matt Trumpets is also here. Heyo!
[03:49.960 -> 03:55.780] And Matt, like me, likes to play along when he watches Formula One. It's not just a TV
[03:55.780 -> 04:02.380] show for me, I like to immerse myself in every aspect of Formula One. And that's why I always
[04:02.380 -> 04:09.840] want Rules of Racing to come out of Formula One because I like to play referee. I like to pretend I'm the race
[04:09.840 -> 04:13.720] steward and that's why I love playing the Whose Fault is It segment on Myst
[04:13.720 -> 04:18.720] Apex so much. And then that's the reason we do all the sim racing and the karting
[04:18.720 -> 04:23.760] at Myst Apex as well. So I can equate my karting experiences when we do our
[04:23.760 -> 04:25.520] events and our sim racing to what the drivers are going through and I can equate my karting experiences when we do our events and our sim racing
[04:30.240 -> 04:36.080] to what the drivers are going through and I can sit there like, oh I'd never have done that, I wouldn't have gone for that move, why didn't Bottas defend harder? And I find that fantasy
[04:36.080 -> 04:41.760] element of it very entertaining as well. And one of the very favourite things we like doing on
[04:41.760 -> 04:49.600] Missed Apex Podcast from our armchairs is yelling at the TV when we feel like we would have made a different decision on
[04:49.600 -> 04:54.800] strategy. You should see our WhatsApp group when Mercedes pitted Lewis
[04:54.800 -> 04:59.160] Hamilton onto the hards I think at Kota. Everyone went mad. Everyone in our
[04:59.160 -> 05:06.720] WhatsApp chat knew much better than the Mercedes strategists and I like like being an armchair strategist, but I also
[05:06.720 -> 05:12.800] know that on a mass scale that might be annoying for our guest Mike Caulfield, who of course has
[05:12.800 -> 05:17.680] been a race strategist for two F1 teams. And thank you for slumming it in the shed, Mike,
[05:17.680 -> 05:22.560] and I will forgive your Christmas jumper given your vast experience in F1.
[05:23.360 -> 05:28.120] Yeah, yeah, that was not a problem. I mean, it's December, so I'm a bit insulted. There's
[05:28.120 -> 05:30.120] not a lot of Christmas jumpers on shows.
[05:30.120 -> 05:36.400] Okay, well, agree to disagree. Actually, we've got some quickfire questions from our listeners,
[05:36.400 -> 05:40.520] Mike, that we're going to fire at you a little bit later on. But one of the things that really
[05:40.520 -> 05:46.000] made me kind of hit up your DMs today was a discussion we had last week about what the
[05:46.000 -> 05:54.240] race strategists would do if this success ballast proposal from from Ross Brawn came in in 2026.
[05:54.240 -> 06:00.800] One of the first things we came up with was would the strategists even want to be in the lead? It
[06:00.800 -> 06:07.200] throws up not just you know things about the ethos of racing and whether it's sport versus
[06:07.200 -> 06:12.160] entertainment. One of the thoughts we had was of you guys on the pit wall. You guys
[06:12.160 -> 06:17.800] must all have been seeing this in a very different way. What was your reaction to this potential
[06:17.800 -> 06:19.440] kind of in-race success ballast?
[06:19.440 -> 06:25.760] Yeah, I mean, it's like anything which is really kind of discussed and promoted.
[06:25.760 -> 06:29.600] And I mean, you kind of pass it over and it's like, starts becoming a bit more of a
[06:30.640 -> 06:37.680] kind of definitive idea. So you don't, you tend to, everything that's banded around it,
[06:37.680 -> 06:40.560] so it's always kind of saying, well, this happened, will it not happen?
[06:40.560 -> 06:42.800] I mean, the best way to look at it, I think, is kind of,
[06:43.680 -> 06:49.160] it's almost going a little bit back to a bit of a refueling type of era because obviously
[06:49.400 -> 06:53.440] When you're in the refueling ones, you could go between a two-stop or three-stop
[06:53.440 -> 06:55.240] So you're either going for a heavy fill
[06:55.240 -> 06:58.440] Which have a slower car or you're going for more stops with a lighter car
[06:58.480 -> 07:01.960] So yes, you're kind of slightly going back towards those lines
[07:03.040 -> 07:07.140] and it just depends on what kind of the palace levels are going to be as well.
[07:07.140 -> 07:11.760] Cause ultimately, I mean, every car at the moment, probably slightly
[07:11.760 -> 07:14.520] different in terms of car weight, especially the new regulations this year.
[07:14.560 -> 07:18.440] I mean, there's rumors, but some cars were close to 30 kilos at the beginning of the
[07:18.440 -> 07:18.960] season.
[07:18.980 -> 07:23.600] So 30 kilos is almost a second of performance, basically.
[07:25.560 -> 07:25.960] Yes.
[07:25.960 -> 07:26.280] Yeah.
[07:26.280 -> 07:27.040] Wow.
[07:27.040 -> 07:30.080] So, so, I mean, I think they've got it down by the end of the season.
[07:30.120 -> 07:33.320] A lot of the performance gains was the kind of weight gains in that one.
[07:33.320 -> 07:38.240] But yeah, it's you generally you're looking at 10 kilos is about three times
[07:38.400 -> 07:40.080] is roughly on most circuits.
[07:40.080 -> 07:42.240] So, so that's the kind of performance.
[07:42.240 -> 07:48.000] So that's the kind of ballast you're also having to look at in terms of that kind of active ballast,
[07:48.000 -> 07:50.800] or what exactly the rule would be.
[07:50.800 -> 07:55.400] Is it going to be significant enough to make a difference?
[07:55.400 -> 08:01.600] And then also, is it in a race situation or is it in a quality situation?
[08:01.600 -> 08:10.320] Because obviously qualifying, it comes down, it can be very fine margins. And then it also kind of does a little bit of,
[08:11.280 -> 08:13.760] a little bit of kind of a balance between,
[08:13.760 -> 08:16.480] well, how easy is it to overtake in those regulations
[08:16.480 -> 08:18.240] and therefore qualifying speed is really important.
[08:18.240 -> 08:20.320] Or is it like this season where the qualifying is made,
[08:20.320 -> 08:22.480] well, the overtaking is a bit more straightforward.
[08:22.480 -> 08:24.800] So you actually take that head-on of hitting and go,
[08:24.800 -> 08:27.520] well, I'll take that hit in the qualifying. It gives me a bit lower
[08:27.520 -> 08:32.880] down the grid. Actually, then I have less power for the race, but it's easy to overtake. So that's
[08:32.880 -> 08:38.720] what I'll do. And then it's, yeah, I mean, I have a lot of respect for Ross. I've worked for Ross for
[08:38.720 -> 08:43.600] quite a number of years. Oh, there's a but coming. No, not a but at all, but well, there's a but.
[08:50.000 -> 08:54.000] Not a but at all, but a lot of things he comes out and says, I imagine it's not very much his ideas, it's ideas which have been pushed to him from within F1 itself and he kind of
[08:54.000 -> 08:59.040] just, it's a bit of a soundbite, gets people talking, but I mean a lot of things they have
[08:59.040 -> 09:05.980] to go through the kind of sporting advisory committee, you'll have all the strategists working,
[09:05.980 -> 09:08.460] looking at the kind of pros and cons for it.
[09:08.460 -> 09:12.840] More than likely, you'll get the eight or nine strategists
[09:12.840 -> 09:15.440] and maybe one disagreeing, but all come and say,
[09:15.440 -> 09:17.380] yeah, this ain't gonna make a difference to your racing.
[09:17.380 -> 09:18.880] We've done these simulations.
[09:18.880 -> 09:20.520] Everyone all iterates the same thing.
[09:20.520 -> 09:23.120] So actually, it's not gonna make that much of a difference,
[09:23.120 -> 09:24.720] or it's gonna affect the show
[09:24.720 -> 09:28.800] because it's gonna reduce overtakes. So you'll get the teams doing thousands and
[09:28.800 -> 09:33.520] thousands of simulations, often for their own gain. If they think it's not going to benefit them,
[09:33.520 -> 09:39.600] they'll obviously try and bias it in a way that it doesn't work. And for the teams where they
[09:39.600 -> 09:49.040] maybe need something a little bit to mix it up, they'll try and bias it one way, but ultimately you get to the kind of the decision of will it work, will it won't work.
[09:49.040 -> 09:53.400] I mean, we had these similar conversations about reverse grids and the kind of sprint
[09:53.400 -> 09:56.600] races and the kind of qualifying format and everything like that.
[09:56.600 -> 09:58.920] It's kind of, it goes through this kind of same process.
[09:58.920 -> 10:05.640] And yeah, it's, I'd be surprised if it comes in, but who knows?
[10:05.640 -> 10:07.320] It's a few years away yet.
[10:07.320 -> 10:11.960] That's all very sensible, but Matt, obviously we prefer to just jump on the headlines.
[10:11.960 -> 10:14.320] Like I said to you, I never even clicked any of those articles.
[10:14.320 -> 10:18.840] I just went from whatever clickbait tweet came out on top.
[10:18.840 -> 10:21.800] Yes, I remember our discussion on Sunday.
[10:21.800 -> 10:32.160] And since then, another thing has occurred to me is that the whole point, I think, of this original idea of active aerodynamics was because without the electrical
[10:32.160 -> 10:38.160] side, the MGUH, they will need to find additional fuel savings, and they wanted to do it by making
[10:38.160 -> 10:45.000] the car slipperier down the straight. But if you disadvantage the leading car, and I'm asking Mike this, aren't
[10:45.000 -> 10:48.800] you just throwing away that fuel efficiency you've just created?
[10:48.800 -> 10:53.120] I mean, I don't see how it's going to work in the terms most people are imagining it
[10:53.120 -> 10:54.120] right now.
[10:54.120 -> 10:56.600] Yeah, I'd agree with you in that sense.
[10:56.600 -> 11:03.120] Yeah, I kind of think that people also find a way for like, yeah, you work your strategy
[11:03.120 -> 11:04.120] around it.
[11:04.120 -> 11:08.320] Like we mentioned, you kind of go, well, actually leading the race isn't the way forward.
[11:08.320 -> 11:10.240] So you kind of almost everyone goes really slow.
[11:10.240 -> 11:14.880] So actually what you'll see is 20 cars not driving anywhere near to the pace, which they
[11:14.880 -> 11:19.320] can because they're trying to fuel save and they're trying to do what they can do to kind
[11:19.320 -> 11:21.840] of leave them free to options.
[11:30.960 -> 11:36.560] leave them free to options. Yeah, so I expect it'll be a case of people, everyone wants to see 20 cars driving at the limit and pushing the cars and it'll push in the opposite way to that,
[11:36.560 -> 11:42.000] in my opinion. And I think because you've just got too much disadvantage of leading the race and too
[11:42.000 -> 11:48.240] much disadvantage in terms of... Like Mario Kart. You don't want to be in the lead for Mario Kart because
[11:48.240 -> 11:49.240] that blue shell's coming.
[11:49.240 -> 11:55.000] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And it's everyone's clever people. Everyone has simulations and
[11:55.000 -> 11:58.760] everyone will run and go, right, what's the quickest way to the end of the race? Right,
[11:58.760 -> 12:03.240] it's this way. We don't want to have this candy cat put on us. So this is what you do.
[12:03.240 -> 12:05.520] And then you make a pit stop towards the end of
[12:05.520 -> 12:11.840] the race and you get in the lead for maybe the last 10, 12 laps or something like that. And
[12:11.840 -> 12:16.480] because you've driven off the pace so much in the early part of the race, but you've got enough fuel
[12:16.480 -> 12:22.640] and then you can push flat out. And your handicaps kind of balance out from your fuel levels.
[12:23.440 -> 12:27.200] Like I said, there'll be a lot of people, clever people have seen
[12:27.200 -> 12:31.240] that and it goes gone and picks holes in lots of little bits of it.
[12:31.240 -> 12:32.240] And yeah.
[12:32.240 -> 12:33.240] Yeah.
[12:33.240 -> 12:37.560] I just had this hilarious mental image because I used to race bikes on a velodrome of like
[12:37.560 -> 12:42.600] the sprints where they come to a dead stop for five minutes before somebody finally goes.
[12:42.600 -> 12:44.680] And then it made me think of like some of the DRS zones.
[12:44.680 -> 12:48.600] We've actually seen this. Hamilton and Verstappen trying to not
[12:48.600 -> 12:55.640] lead. It's like Monza Colophon isn't it as well when everyone's piled up in Q3 and
[12:55.640 -> 13:00.160] then everyone basically goes round as slow as possible because no one wants to
[13:00.160 -> 13:08.160] lead and it will be similar to that in a number of circuits yeah. So, one of the questions I wanted to ask you as a strategist is,
[13:08.160 -> 13:12.320] what is it like, and this is not the most thrilling question in the world, but what is it like
[13:12.320 -> 13:19.680] to get an F1 driver to drive slowly? So you have to spend a lot of the time driving slowly. I've
[13:19.680 -> 13:29.800] spent a lot of time on here talking about why people don't build up a Schumacher style gap anymore up front and I guess maybe because there's more safety cars, you don't want to
[13:29.800 -> 13:34.520] burn fuel and burn your tyres building up a big gap that could just get snuffed out.
[13:34.520 -> 13:41.280] I think to start with, we go, how much of the race are the drivers pushing flat out?
[13:41.280 -> 13:52.160] And I've got a feeling it's going to be a bit of a depressing answer. Um, yeah, it's, it's, I mean, a lot of the topics, like when I was, when I, so going back one year,
[13:52.160 -> 13:55.200] so obviously I don't have the experience of this year and the tyres this year, but actually the
[13:55.200 -> 14:00.800] tyres have degraded more this year. So I expect it's still a big conversation is you're going into
[14:00.800 -> 14:07.040] the race and your main conversation is how much time management's needed, what compounds need the time management, what corners do you
[14:07.040 -> 14:07.560] do that?
[14:08.120 -> 14:12.480] Um, and basically how much time what's the most efficient way of doing it.
[14:12.960 -> 14:18.120] So for example, Barcelona a couple of years back is the prime example of a, a
[14:18.800 -> 14:23.800] two stop, two stop of Barcelona is often not the ideal strategy to do
[14:24.020 -> 14:26.560] because it's difficult to overtake. However,
[14:26.560 -> 14:31.520] Hamilton made that work perfectly because the one-stop at Barcelona was so marginal that you
[14:31.520 -> 14:36.960] had to do so much tyre management to get your tyre life to the end, whereas your 2-stop you were then
[14:36.960 -> 14:42.000] able to push. But you're still in that very much that balance. These tyres are still very much on a
[14:42.000 -> 14:46.480] kind of knife edge that if you push them too much early on in the spin,
[14:46.480 -> 14:48.800] they will just give up and you won't,
[14:48.800 -> 14:52.040] they'll probably settle off and the pace will be,
[14:52.040 -> 14:54.160] I don't know, it's a nominal number,
[14:54.160 -> 14:57.560] about six times to a second off their optimum.
[14:57.560 -> 14:58.920] Whereas if you bring them in nicely,
[14:58.920 -> 15:00.560] you can get them to go longer
[15:00.560 -> 15:03.640] and the pace generally remains a bit more consistent on it.
[15:03.640 -> 15:06.240] So yeah, in terms of your answer,
[15:06.240 -> 15:09.400] there's always some kind of management going on.
[15:09.400 -> 15:13.720] It's very unusual for it to be that kind of flat out.
[15:13.720 -> 15:16.000] You can do kind of quality style laps.
[15:16.000 -> 15:17.960] You can kind of push it down.
[15:17.960 -> 15:20.280] There is the occasional one where you've got the tire,
[15:20.280 -> 15:21.880] the kind of a hard compound.
[15:22.760 -> 15:24.680] You've got nothing to lose basically.
[15:24.680 -> 15:25.400] You can go right, try and
[15:25.400 -> 15:29.360] catch him, try and put, often you do that but again you take too much out of the tyres
[15:29.360 -> 15:33.560] by the time the car in front, or you catch the car in front, you start to have that drop
[15:33.560 -> 15:38.040] off, you don't have that performance edge to then make the overtake. So it's, I mean
[15:38.040 -> 15:42.480] the last race of the season was probably a prime example of kind of that one stop, two
[15:42.480 -> 15:46.720] stop how tyre management done successfully worked against
[15:46.720 -> 15:52.560] how it wasn't, basically. So I'm imagining the post-race debrief where you're going,
[15:52.560 -> 15:58.240] yeah, really good performance, Kevin or Roman, or what you had in your time at Haas,
[15:58.240 -> 16:02.880] and you go, that was great, but here's the areas of the race where you needed to have driven
[16:02.880 -> 16:09.800] slower. And I can just see their little faces just dropping. You go to the next race and go, right, so I want you to
[16:09.800 -> 16:14.760] not do race cars. And these guys have been trained from like age dot to go as fast as
[16:14.760 -> 16:15.760] possible.
[16:15.760 -> 16:23.340] Yeah, it's definitely hard in that sense, I think. They always wanted the strategy where
[16:23.340 -> 16:25.040] you kind of go yeah i can drive
[16:25.040 -> 16:31.040] flat out but like like i just said it does never any drive flat out those are kind of well you
[16:31.040 -> 16:34.960] still need to make it to this lap and if you're driving flat out and you come on back to me and
[16:34.960 -> 16:39.840] say i need you to make it to lap 18 to make this work and you push really hard and you get to lap
[16:39.840 -> 16:43.840] 12 and go now my tires are gone then you're just in a bit of a no-man's land so there's still that
[16:43.840 -> 16:48.440] kind of balance but you still had to make it last to a certain point.
[16:48.440 -> 16:51.000] And then there's the other aspects of it
[16:51.000 -> 16:54.840] where they kind of, they understand it.
[16:54.840 -> 16:56.160] They understand the management,
[16:56.160 -> 16:58.120] they understand that the race kind of point
[16:58.120 -> 17:01.240] is a lot of it is management based
[17:01.240 -> 17:04.040] and you have to again, sell it to them
[17:04.040 -> 17:06.920] in terms of, right, you can do this strategy which has less management
[17:06.920 -> 17:09.600] It's not as strong, but you can push harder
[17:09.600 -> 17:15.320] But it requires this this and this to happen you will have to overtake curves or we can try this manage approach
[17:16.520 -> 17:19.640] Which has one less stop and then you'll put you in this position
[17:19.640 -> 17:23.640] and it's sometimes really difficult call to make because often
[17:23.960 -> 17:29.240] Obviously if someone on the two-stop comes sailing past you when you've been really a management and they're not happy
[17:29.240 -> 17:33.440] But at the same time it's often but they haven't done the management well enough either. So it's kind of that
[17:33.440 -> 17:36.760] It's yeah, because they're having to do the management
[17:36.760 -> 17:38.640] it's really specific in terms of
[17:38.640 -> 17:43.900] you have to make this lap work and you have to do this much and these tires have to be done by this point and
[17:43.900 -> 17:48.400] Then there's only that certain window where you can kind of convert and go all right it's not working
[17:48.400 -> 17:55.280] let's go to this the other like plan b approach okay so now i'm just going to be up front i'm not
[17:55.280 -> 18:01.920] asking this about romaine or kevin but i'm asking this based on a series of radio conversations i
[18:01.920 -> 18:05.840] heard between ricardo and his his McLaren engineer when I was
[18:05.840 -> 18:11.920] listening back to things for a race review, which is first of all, when you're developing a strategy,
[18:12.480 -> 18:18.480] how involved is the race engineer in that? You sit there and you tap at your keyboard and you're
[18:18.480 -> 18:22.160] like, aha, we've got a podium and you hand it to the race engineer and he looks at it and he's
[18:22.160 -> 18:26.580] like, yeah, yeah, if only my driver could do half of what you're asking.
[18:26.580 -> 18:27.580] Or any driver.
[18:27.580 -> 18:31.280] Yeah, I mean, a hypothetical engineer, not used.
[18:31.280 -> 18:33.320] Yeah, we're not trying to get you into trouble, Mike.
[18:33.320 -> 18:35.000] No, no, no, no, no.
[18:35.000 -> 18:39.520] But like, one of the jobs of the strategist is that you need good relationships with your
[18:39.520 -> 18:42.120] race engineers and you need that understanding.
[18:42.120 -> 18:45.760] And often you basically answer the question yourself,
[18:50.080 -> 18:54.080] you come up with a strategy and the first one you'll approach them and go, do you think this is possible with the data? Because they've obviously delved in all the data from free
[18:54.080 -> 18:59.600] practice. They know the driver, they know the ways. Is it possible for him to do this?
[19:01.200 -> 19:05.040] Often in practice sessions on the Friday, you'll have done some certain level
[19:05.040 -> 19:06.280] of kind of management anyway,
[19:06.280 -> 19:08.320] and you'll see what your pace was
[19:08.320 -> 19:09.480] doing this level of management,
[19:09.480 -> 19:10.880] or you'll see what your pace was doing,
[19:10.880 -> 19:12.240] no management at all,
[19:12.240 -> 19:14.560] vice versa, the degradation of the tires.
[19:14.560 -> 19:17.800] So you already have kind of like a relative idea
[19:17.800 -> 19:21.400] of what the driver's capable of if these certain levels,
[19:21.400 -> 19:23.200] and you can put it to the race engineer and say,
[19:23.200 -> 19:25.280] if we can manage this, this
[19:25.280 -> 19:30.760] is open, what do you think? And there are certain drivers who are more capable than
[19:30.760 -> 19:37.200] others to do it and then there's more who are more open to do it. And then it's, yeah,
[19:37.200 -> 19:42.300] some people can drive faster while managing and because it's really, again, really critical
[19:42.300 -> 19:47.440] of where you manage the tyres and certain tracks have certain different characteristics.
[19:47.440 -> 19:51.640] Because obviously it depends if it's front limited, rear limited, and certain drivers
[19:51.640 -> 19:55.680] can prefer an understeer car, certain drivers prefer an oversteer car.
[19:55.680 -> 20:00.000] So this is why you need this kind of relationship with the race engineer, to have that understanding
[20:00.000 -> 20:02.800] of how good is he at doing this.
[20:02.800 -> 20:05.760] And you build up that relationship with the driver as well.
[20:10.800 -> 20:15.360] I'm not going to name names, but I had certain drivers who I knew were very good in certain aspects and would prefer certain strategy. Now I'd have other drivers go, I could try
[20:15.360 -> 20:27.920] something with him. So it basically encompasses the team aspects of it behind the scenes. So the strategist has to know everything, really.
[20:27.920 -> 20:30.760] Like, he doesn't know everything in terms of full details,
[20:30.760 -> 20:32.080] but has to know roughly everything
[20:32.080 -> 20:35.600] and kind of what's going on, like, in terms of engines,
[20:35.600 -> 20:38.000] in terms of tires, in terms of driver performance.
[20:38.000 -> 20:39.600] You need to know what's there.
[20:39.600 -> 20:41.200] Because the worst thing is, you plan the strategy,
[20:41.200 -> 20:42.920] and then suddenly the engine guy goes,
[20:42.920 -> 20:44.320] yeah, we're really struggling with cooling.
[20:44.320 -> 20:48.720] We need to go to this. We need to do this lift and coast and it just really kind of
[20:49.280 -> 20:54.720] messes your strategy up by doing that so you you need to have a full picture of what's what's going
[20:54.720 -> 20:59.520] to happen in the race so i'm sure you won't be surprised that i had a second part to this
[20:59.520 -> 21:05.760] question and this is again these these messages i listened to were literally, it was like one turn in the race.
[21:05.760 -> 21:09.680] And every time you went through this turn, his engineer would come on and say, okay, Daniel,
[21:10.240 -> 21:14.640] I'm going to need you to manage your rear tires a little bit more there. They're just sliding about
[21:14.640 -> 21:18.560] two and a half percent too much, lap after lap after lap.
[21:18.560 -> 21:19.040] Was it?
[21:19.040 -> 21:25.500] So as a strategist, if you have a driver getting into difficulty where they are open
[21:25.500 -> 21:30.580] to trying this, but it turns out that due to the circumstances of the race or just the
[21:30.580 -> 21:36.100] vagaries of the weather on the day, they can't make it happen, how do you, as a strategist,
[21:36.100 -> 21:37.420] respond during the race?
[21:37.420 -> 21:42.260] How hard is that to adapt on the fly?
[21:42.260 -> 21:47.200] This I think very much depends on where you are in the race and what type of race
[21:47.200 -> 21:51.240] it is. You'll notice information and then obviously the strategist will probably be
[21:51.240 -> 21:57.160] talking to the race engineer while between the race engineer talking to the driver. And
[21:57.160 -> 22:01.320] then the question the strategist will ask will go, right, with this, can he make it
[22:01.320 -> 22:06.800] to this lap because we need to make it to this lap to make this strategy work.
[22:06.800 -> 22:09.920] And if the race engineer then kind of looks at the data
[22:09.920 -> 22:11.800] or speaks to the driver and gets this kind of feedback,
[22:11.800 -> 22:13.720] it's like, no, it was like, right, what can we do?
[22:13.720 -> 22:14.880] And you need to obviously,
[22:14.880 -> 22:17.840] you have these kind of crossover points, right?
[22:17.840 -> 22:20.560] We're needed to do this to make a one-stop work.
[22:20.560 -> 22:23.000] We need to either, to get them to an optimum two-stop,
[22:23.000 -> 22:24.480] we need to stop on this lap.
[22:24.480 -> 22:26.820] So you don't want to be stuck in this kind of middle ground
[22:26.820 -> 22:29.300] as the optimum two stop was lap 14,
[22:29.300 -> 22:32.540] go on stop was lap 24, we've pushed it to lap 19.
[22:32.540 -> 22:35.420] And now we're kind of like in the bit of no man's land.
[22:35.420 -> 22:38.180] So you need to get that information as early as possible.
[22:38.180 -> 22:40.580] And then that's why there's constant communication
[22:40.580 -> 22:42.900] to the race engineer and possibly with this kind of
[22:42.900 -> 22:48.600] McLaren one is that they still think there was possibility of making it to this lap, but it just needed
[22:48.600 -> 22:49.600] to start doing it.
[22:49.600 -> 22:52.820] And possibly it was getting close to this decision point of this crux where you have
[22:52.820 -> 22:54.560] to change over to this other strategy.
[22:54.560 -> 22:56.600] So just like, right, just see if you can do it.
[22:56.600 -> 22:57.600] Just see if you can, right.
[22:57.600 -> 22:58.600] You can't do it.
[22:58.600 -> 22:59.600] Okay.
[22:59.600 -> 23:00.600] We need to convert and do this.
[23:00.600 -> 23:01.600] Are you guys even needed though?
[23:01.600 -> 23:05.200] Cause we hear it a lot in commentary and in podcasts like us,
[23:05.200 -> 23:09.680] that there's some drivers do the strategy from the cockpit, Mike. And like, so, you know, you're
[23:09.680 -> 23:14.560] talking about all that strategy and then George Russell comes on and he's very vocal with his
[23:14.560 -> 23:18.800] engineers about, no, I'm just going to keep going. I don't need new boots, just keep me on these.
[23:18.800 -> 23:25.600] And then of course, Leclerc and Sainz have been doing a lot of that. Vettel was said to be the chief strategist at Ferrari.
[23:31.520 -> 23:36.640] But, you know, A, that must be frustrating from a strategy point of view. But also, do they ever have any genuine insight? And are you able to change around what they say? Or do
[23:36.640 -> 23:40.160] you just kind of sit there and like in a huff, I'd be like, just tear my notes up and go, well,
[23:40.160 -> 23:42.960] what do I know? You know, point to my degree. You know, what do I know?
[23:40.800 -> 23:40.960] go, well, what do I know?
[23:42.220 -> 23:42.280] You know, point to my degree.
[23:42.420 -> 23:43.120] Yeah. What do I know?
[23:43.880 -> 23:51.420] I mean, it's, it's interesting one for like, at times, if they're saying like
[23:51.420 -> 23:56.800] the tire can go to X, the X point, I can keep going, like sometimes that can be
[23:56.800 -> 24:00.760] good information because you may be going into a race with a bit unsure of
[24:00.760 -> 24:07.540] what this tire can get to, and like, you've gone into it thinking like a medium can last until 26 and it's
[24:07.540 -> 24:12.420] a 70 lap race and therefore you don't really want to get that, put the hard on,
[24:12.420 -> 24:16.560] but you, you get close to this point and he's gone, this feels really fine.
[24:16.780 -> 24:20.520] You obviously then have the benefit, the relative lap times, and you kind of go,
[24:20.520 -> 24:23.460] well, all right, we've seen other people on the soft, they're really struggling.
[24:23.460 -> 24:24.860] So we still have to go to the hard.
[24:25.180 -> 24:26.720] So you need to go, well, all right, we've seen other people on the soft, they're really struggling. So we still have to go to the hard. So you need to go to this tire.
[24:27.000 -> 24:30.160] And that's when they usually put them on and they come back and go, well,
[24:30.320 -> 24:31.320] that was, that was rubbish.
[24:31.320 -> 24:32.560] Um, this tire is rubbish.
[24:32.560 -> 24:33.600] This, this type of deal.
[24:33.920 -> 24:37.360] And he's just like, well, yes, but nothing would have happened.
[24:37.360 -> 24:39.360] And you can't have these conversations in the race.
[24:39.360 -> 24:43.840] So you never have to like, you always hear the, the kind of the initial
[24:43.840 -> 24:45.960] reaction to it because they don't know the full picture.
[24:45.960 -> 24:49.440] And then after the race, you go through it to them and say, well, no, if we continue
[24:49.440 -> 24:51.320] on this, this would have happened.
[24:51.320 -> 24:54.320] And then, and that's, that's what it's done.
[24:54.320 -> 24:56.080] So it's, um, yeah.
[24:56.080 -> 25:03.360] So it's, it can be frustrating at times, but again, it's, I always kind of sees, and I'm
[25:03.360 -> 25:06.080] not, I don't, the last thing I want to do is like,
[25:06.080 -> 25:09.320] you see us criticizing my fellow colleagues and stuff like that
[25:09.320 -> 25:11.520] because there's definitely going to be some drivers
[25:11.520 -> 25:13.000] who are stronger than others.
[25:13.000 -> 25:15.040] And even some teams around the room
[25:15.040 -> 25:16.240] potentially stronger than others
[25:16.240 -> 25:18.560] and put certain thoughts in the mind
[25:18.560 -> 25:22.320] and kind of certain kind of criteria, like what going in.
[25:22.320 -> 25:24.080] So you might have had this conversation
[25:24.080 -> 25:28.560] and the driver seems very on board with it, understands what the plan is, you're going into the race
[25:28.560 -> 25:32.960] and then you've not realized that like someone else has either sat down with him and said,
[25:32.960 -> 25:37.760] well I saw this, we should maybe try this. And then that's the frustrating thing,
[25:37.760 -> 25:41.760] if something like that's happened and then he's like, where's this coming from?
[25:41.760 -> 25:45.040] And he kind of said it's something, but as a strategist,
[25:45.040 -> 25:49.120] you always try and go into a race with all the possible plans. So like, if George is coming on
[25:49.120 -> 25:53.920] and saying, these tires are doing this, you hope we already got kind of a scenario of, well, okay,
[25:53.920 -> 25:58.720] if this is happening, we can do this, but if this is happening and this is also happening,
[25:58.720 -> 26:03.200] it's still better for us to convert. Yeah, but they can only, yeah, sorry, Mike, sorry,
[26:03.200 -> 26:08.320] slight lag on that. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but obviously they've only got access to one car's data. We've got a really good follow-up
[26:08.320 -> 26:12.720] question here to steal from the quickfire ones that we got off Twitter, and it's Michael Brown
[26:12.720 -> 26:18.160] who says, how long does it take to realise what the right tyres and strategy is? And also, what
[26:18.160 -> 26:21.920] does it feel like when you've made the wrong call on the tyres and you're halfway through a race
[26:21.920 -> 26:26.600] and there's nothing you can do about it? What's the dynamic like of that with the team?
[26:26.600 -> 26:27.860] But like we were saying,
[26:27.860 -> 26:29.780] you have that thing where you make the decision
[26:29.780 -> 26:33.060] or you have say another car pit onto the tyre
[26:33.060 -> 26:34.680] that you were fully planning,
[26:34.680 -> 26:35.960] like we're going on the medium
[26:35.960 -> 26:38.540] and then you see McLaren go on the medium
[26:38.540 -> 26:39.800] and it's a disaster.
[26:39.800 -> 26:42.000] But how long do those things take to unfold?
[26:43.280 -> 26:46.280] It's, again, it can be very dependent.
[26:46.280 -> 26:50.720] It's like a lot of it depends on hopefully you've got enough information based on your
[26:50.720 -> 26:51.720] Friday running.
[26:51.720 -> 26:55.920] And you've got enough comments a week and we've got a good idea of how the tyre is going
[26:55.920 -> 26:56.920] to perform.
[26:56.920 -> 27:01.160] Your Friday running's kind of confirmed it or just tweaked it a little bit.
[27:01.160 -> 27:04.880] So going into a race, you've not got the unknowns.
[27:04.880 -> 27:05.040] Obviously with the reduced kind of time you have into a race, you've not got the unknowns. Obviously with
[27:05.040 -> 27:10.560] the reduced kind of time you have on a Friday, especially if you lose one car for an issue
[27:10.560 -> 27:16.160] or a crash or something, and you lose out a bit of information, or you've not had a
[27:16.160 -> 27:21.360] representative session, then that's when you start going into a race going, okay, right,
[27:21.360 -> 27:25.400] this time might do this, but it also might do this based on past history
[27:25.400 -> 27:30.400] or past expectations, we're expecting this to do this.
[27:30.680 -> 27:33.000] And then you see someone else fit in go,
[27:33.000 -> 27:35.320] okay, that's not what we were expecting.
[27:35.320 -> 27:37.920] But then also at the same time is different cars
[27:37.920 -> 27:41.000] have different performances on different tires.
[27:41.000 -> 27:43.300] So you literally have it in case of say,
[27:44.680 -> 27:47.360] the Red Bull's really good on the kind of softer compounds,
[27:47.360 -> 27:49.680] the Mercedes are better on the medium compound,
[27:49.680 -> 27:53.640] or like Alonso's been really good on the hard compound.
[27:54.600 -> 27:56.360] So sometimes you'll see a car fit it,
[27:56.360 -> 27:58.800] and you're like, that's not really a representative car
[27:58.800 -> 28:00.000] for us to make the decision on.
[28:00.000 -> 28:03.480] We know we struggle on these tires, so we want to avoid it.
[28:03.480 -> 28:04.680] And that's probably the hardest one,
[28:04.680 -> 28:07.320] is where you literally see every car go on to the hard tire
[28:07.320 -> 28:08.760] and you go, no, we can't run that tire.
[28:08.760 -> 28:10.520] So you don't run it and then go,
[28:10.520 -> 28:12.480] yeah, we should probably try that tire.
[28:13.480 -> 28:15.720] And it doesn't work out.
[28:15.720 -> 28:19.520] So in terms of that kind of, yeah,
[28:19.520 -> 28:23.520] if you fit a tire and it doesn't work and you go, wow,
[28:23.520 -> 28:24.840] and there's nothing you can do about it.
[28:24.840 -> 28:27.840] Unfortunately, that is the case. There's nothing you can do about it. You'll just have
[28:27.840 -> 28:32.800] a whiny driver, you'll make an extra pit stop and you'll be on a sub-optimum strategy. And
[28:32.800 -> 28:37.920] therefore in the race, yeah, you kind of either hang it out and hope that there's a safety
[28:37.920 -> 28:43.560] car, which kind of brings you back into play or that the tyre picks up or something happens
[28:43.560 -> 28:47.600] with it. But ultimately you've kind of not got your predictions right.
[28:47.600 -> 28:53.400] And you've not got your kind of going into the race tyre curves, tyre models, read of the situation.
[28:53.400 -> 28:56.400] So then you look at, right, how could we do this better next time?
[28:56.400 -> 28:59.200] And that's the main one on that aspect of it.
[28:59.200 -> 29:04.000] But yeah, it is a bit horrible sometimes when you fit a tyre and it just looks rubbish.
[29:04.000 -> 29:08.720] And you're just like, well, it's even worse when you know it's going to be rubbish and the driver
[29:08.720 -> 29:13.320] is shouting to fit it and then you kind of go, all right, we'll fit it then.
[29:13.320 -> 29:15.000] We'll fit it then.
[29:15.000 -> 29:19.400] And then it comes on and goes, this is bad.
[29:19.400 -> 29:22.880] But I guess the driver would learn then kind of next time that changes the dynamic in the
[29:22.880 -> 29:23.880] team.
[29:23.880 -> 29:27.760] And again, it goes back to this kind of, you have these conversations on the morning of a race,
[29:27.760 -> 29:32.000] you've told them what you expect on the tyres, you give them the full overview of what we're
[29:32.000 -> 29:40.160] expecting with it. So hopefully they have these kind of thoughts going into that race.
[29:42.080 -> 29:48.800] It's been a bit of a thing to pick on Ferrari strategy. And they did seem to really struggle
[29:48.800 -> 29:53.520] with their tire modeling relative to like the other top teams, at least watching from the
[29:53.520 -> 29:58.640] outside, they made a lot of what seemed like wrong tire calls. But what I wanted to ask
[29:59.600 -> 30:06.480] is, how do you set up or what do you think about to use information that happens?
[30:06.480 -> 30:08.800] Because you were talking about it already in the race.
[30:08.800 -> 30:11.200] So like Williams goes on to the hard tire.
[30:11.200 -> 30:14.880] Everybody sees it's rubbish and then Ferrari put both their drivers on the hard tire.
[30:14.880 -> 30:20.880] Anyway, how do you recognize that information and use it for yourself?
[30:20.880 -> 30:22.800] Like how do you set up?
[30:22.800 -> 30:26.960] Do you have like intern Bob sitting there watching lap times from Williams when they
[30:26.960 -> 30:28.920] go under the tire?
[30:28.920 -> 30:32.520] How do you set up to take in information, that data that is generated during the race
[30:32.520 -> 30:35.680] lap time wise, to make better decisions?
[30:35.680 -> 30:41.560] Yeah, I mean, I won't quite say intern Bob.
[30:41.560 -> 30:50.880] Often it'd be, sometimes it's the guy on the pit while they're doing it, but yeah, there'll generally be one person on the strategy group who will be kind of designated with
[30:50.880 -> 30:56.160] a competitor task, so he's maybe not in charge of the strategy car, he's in charge of kind of
[30:56.160 -> 31:00.640] looking at competitors in general, and one of the things you again, you'll go through kind of a list
[31:00.640 -> 31:09.680] pre-race of these are the things we need to be aware of, this is the things we're unsure of, so if you see a car going onto a hard tyre the first thing you go is right what's the
[31:09.680 -> 31:14.640] offset of that tyre, obviously you don't know kind of what the wear life or degradation is until
[31:14.640 -> 31:19.200] there are a number of laps into it, but you can generally see what their pace is and obviously
[31:19.200 -> 31:23.600] the best one is if they've got one car on say the hard and one car on the medium you know or generally
[31:23.600 -> 31:27.600] what their kind of pace is, if they've maybe got an offset and driver pace, you then apply that.
[31:27.600 -> 31:29.960] And then you have kind of overview of that one.
[31:30.400 -> 31:35.080] I can kind of imagine that Ferrari point of view is, but they'll have someone
[31:35.440 -> 31:38.480] someone looking at it, but potentially, like I said,
[31:38.480 -> 31:41.840] but maybe they don't think Williams was a representative car for themselves
[31:42.160 -> 31:42.840] to look at.
[31:42.840 -> 31:48.640] So they see Williams going on to a hard tyre and they go, oh, no, it's fine. They often struggle on that way, often good on it. And
[31:48.640 -> 31:55.120] then they go onto it and go, okay, we're also rubbish on it. So, um, yeah. And it's, so sometimes
[31:55.120 -> 32:00.640] it's, it's kind of can be that, that aspect of it is that you just, yeah, you look at certain cars
[32:00.640 -> 32:04.320] and some cars are just, you don't feel a representative in terms of performance,
[32:04.320 -> 32:09.600] downforce level, et cetera, but you get the same kind of type performance from it okay well i think we'd
[32:09.600 -> 32:15.040] like to move on to a couple of quick fire questions right now and my first one for you comes from
[32:15.040 -> 32:22.320] ing zero and i love this is there a particular track that is especially interesting or important
[32:22.320 -> 32:26.000] strategy wise excepting mon, because we have things
[32:26.000 -> 32:27.840] that we can't say about Monaco here on this show.
[32:29.760 -> 32:36.960] Okay. Yes. And as a good question, I think they all have the kind of little, little
[32:36.960 -> 32:42.240] characteristics. I always found for myself, but Barcelona was always an interesting one.
[32:43.840 -> 32:46.120] And it's not really, it was,
[32:46.120 -> 32:48.040] it can very much depend on what tyres
[32:48.040 -> 32:49.360] are being brought to the circuit
[32:49.360 -> 32:51.560] and what tyres are kind of go,
[32:51.560 -> 32:53.560] but Pirelli always seemed to do,
[32:53.560 -> 32:54.640] I guess, essentially,
[32:54.640 -> 32:56.080] it's a shooting amount of testing
[32:56.080 -> 32:57.160] you used to do at Barcelona,
[32:57.160 -> 33:01.080] but it was always that borderline one stop, two stop there.
[33:01.080 -> 33:03.120] And because it was difficult to overtake,
[33:03.120 -> 33:09.120] it always forced everyone to kind of go onto that, you want that one less strategy because it's not easy to overtake,
[33:09.120 -> 33:13.600] but the tyres were on such an edge. So it's kind of that, that borderline of right.
[33:13.600 -> 33:17.040] How much money again, going back to the management, how much management do you do?
[33:17.040 -> 33:21.680] It's like, can we make this work? Is it still going to be borderline? And you've got to make
[33:21.680 -> 33:28.880] these decisions quite quickly on the fly and the safety cars can make a big impact on that one. So I always found Barcelona, it has a bit of everything as well,
[33:28.880 -> 33:34.400] it has the slow speed, it has the quick fast speed, it is kind of a general circuit which
[33:34.400 -> 33:38.320] has a bit of everything in there. So I always found that one was a tricky one.
[33:40.240 -> 33:48.000] Singapore is obviously has, it's always safety cars, so that one's always you always took me obviously you can never plan.
[33:48.000 -> 33:52.000] You never know when a safety car comes, but you also start looking into the data
[33:52.000 -> 33:56.000] safety cars in Singapore and you kind of go well, it's always had one and often
[33:56.000 -> 34:00.000] in Singapore as well is a safety car often brings out a close
[34:00.000 -> 34:04.000] second safety car as well. So you have that. I think there was one season
[34:04.000 -> 34:11.760] a few on back where you had about three in quick succession. 2017? Possibly. Yeah. Um, but it is one where we were
[34:11.760 -> 34:18.000] running quite well in the race. I remember it could be 17 or 18. And like the first restart,
[34:18.000 -> 34:21.520] we were on the tech ties. We didn't come to the safety car. And the first restart,
[34:21.520 -> 34:25.200] we were fine health position, another safety car, tyre temperature
[34:25.200 -> 34:29.920] dropped again. Next restart, lost the position but we're still doing okay, another safety
[34:29.920 -> 34:34.040] car. And then by that third safety car, the tyres were just dead because they'd just lost
[34:34.040 -> 34:39.000] so much temperature. But you kind of, you were then, you were then, yeah, you were just
[34:39.000 -> 34:45.200] a sitting duck, right? But like, it was an interesting one and that so that one always had that little bit of aspect to play
[34:45.200 -> 34:53.200] into it. And then I guess any track which is, has made changes to like the track surface or
[34:54.000 -> 34:58.640] or like a bit profiling of the corners. I mean you go into that and straight away it's,
[34:59.200 -> 35:03.760] it's you have a lot of historical data you're like how much of this applies and how much it doesn't.
[35:03.760 -> 35:05.760] a lot of historical data, like how much of this applies and how much of it doesn't.
[35:09.520 -> 35:16.240] Istanbul 2020 when they had the oil. Oh yeah, I mean that was, yeah I mean that was, it was awful but great at the same time. But I mean
[35:16.240 -> 35:20.560] we knew it was going to be bad and then we were literally doing the track walk on the Thursday
[35:20.560 -> 35:23.360] and you're feeling, you're sleeping under your feet and you're going, Christ this is,
[35:23.360 -> 35:25.080] this is going to be a nightmare.
[35:26.360 -> 35:26.560] And it was a nightmare.
[35:29.760 -> 35:29.960] But then it rained as well, which just made it absolutely, yeah,
[35:34.080 -> 35:34.280] another level in that. And then, yeah, I think that brings it on to one of the
[35:39.560 -> 35:39.760] certain tracks as well, where wet tyres are very different to performance to what
[35:43.120 -> 35:43.320] you do on a normal track. And Istanbul was one of them.
[35:46.540 -> 35:49.400] But the combination of the nature of the track, time of the year, the wet tires just didn't run out
[35:49.400 -> 35:50.240] and you could just run them and run them.
[35:50.240 -> 35:53.020] And it was something which we've not really seen before,
[35:53.020 -> 35:55.100] but you kind of go, wow, you can just run these tires.
[35:55.100 -> 35:59.020] And it's, yeah, it was interesting.
[35:59.020 -> 36:03.420] So yeah, every track has its little intricacies, I think.
[36:03.420 -> 36:06.240] Oh, that's a great answer and a great question as well.
[36:06.240 -> 36:10.720] Matt, I think we've got time for to sneak in one last quickfire question.
[36:10.720 -> 36:11.720] Okay.
[36:11.720 -> 36:14.280] I have so many good ones to choose from.
[36:14.280 -> 36:19.200] This is a bit difficult, but we're going to take from Tom a question about blue flags.
[36:19.200 -> 36:23.880] How much does that affect your strategy calls, not just for the leaders, if you're coming
[36:23.880 -> 36:27.200] through, but also for the back markers that have to deal with them?
[36:27.200 -> 36:28.200] Massively.
[36:28.200 -> 36:32.560] Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest, and this is a story from my own career, so obviously I
[36:32.560 -> 36:38.960] went from Mercedes to Haas, and obviously Mercedes, when I was there, don't think, can't
[36:38.960 -> 36:42.800] remember us ever receiving a blue flag, apart from maybe one race when Nico had a problem
[36:42.800 -> 36:50.160] with his airs where he was quite slow. Yeah and then obviously I went to Haas and while we were relatively competitive,
[36:50.160 -> 36:55.880] obviously the leaders were going through and I think it was about my fourth race there
[36:55.880 -> 37:01.880] at Sochi and I was going for the undercut against the car and I made a pit stop and
[37:01.880 -> 37:08.000] I pitted straight into a blue flag basically And then obviously you lose, then lose, three, four seconds.
[37:08.000 -> 37:11.000] It's the time boss for a blue flag.
[37:11.000 -> 37:14.000] And therefore the chance of an undercut goes and it's gone.
[37:14.000 -> 37:15.600] And it's that...
[37:15.600 -> 37:19.200] So a lot of it then plays into your decision.
[37:19.200 -> 37:20.600] So you'll be looking at the window and you've got,
[37:20.600 -> 37:23.400] I've got a pit stop window here but I can't pit it because
[37:23.400 -> 37:25.120] if I pit now in
[37:25.680 -> 37:30.560] two laps time potentially Hamilton's going to come through or Verstappen's going to come through and
[37:30.560 -> 37:37.520] then I lose time and then I don't get a chance or if you're trying to like prevent the undercut so
[37:37.520 -> 37:41.200] like often that's like if you've got a car quite up front you don't want to be undercut so you'll
[37:41.200 -> 37:45.040] make that pit stop and that's potentially the. You pit straight into a blue flag,
[37:45.040 -> 37:46.720] you've lost that position.
[37:46.720 -> 37:47.560] You know what I'm saying?
[37:47.560 -> 37:50.600] And then going back to our worst days
[37:50.600 -> 37:53.120] of how sort of when we were really struggling,
[37:53.120 -> 37:55.720] you used to get, it was a nightmare in terms of,
[37:55.720 -> 37:58.800] you used to, a lot of the decisions were trying to pit
[37:58.800 -> 38:01.160] around blue flags, so you didn't get them.
[38:01.160 -> 38:03.680] And you'd try, you'd make a decision, you'd pit,
[38:03.680 -> 38:06.400] and you think, fantastic, oh, I'm to get a blue flag, I'll pit.
[38:07.240 -> 38:09.600] And you go, great, I've not got a blue flag there.
[38:09.800 -> 38:11.360] Oh, no, they've just pitted as well.
[38:11.360 -> 38:15.200] So now I've got a blue flag and I'm going to get it twice because of the way it happens.
[38:15.200 -> 38:18.240] I've just got the blue flag and then they're going to pit again.
[38:19.040 -> 38:22.600] So, yeah, it was because they come up on you so quick as well at that point.
[38:22.600 -> 38:30.620] And it's yeah, that was so blue flag while it doesn't really come into you kind of pre-race strategies as much
[38:31.520 -> 38:36.500] Just because you never know exactly the pace of the cars and how much they're battling. Obviously that takes a bit of
[38:37.640 -> 38:41.800] Time so what we're kind of going but once you're actually in the lap that live situation
[38:42.280 -> 38:45.920] It's something which doesn't come across on TV either, because
[38:45.920 -> 38:49.200] you'll be watching someone going, why hasn't he gone for the undercut yet? Or why hasn't he gone
[38:49.200 -> 38:54.800] for like, surely it's about, he's in his pit window, it's time, because there's potentially
[38:54.800 -> 38:59.280] in a lap, two laps time, three laps time, a leader's going to come through and then if he
[38:59.280 -> 39:02.880] makes his pit stop, he's going to potentially lose a position because of it. And especially
[39:02.880 -> 39:06.960] with how close that midfield is it can be quite quite damaging and
[39:07.200 -> 39:09.640] Yeah, also as well like later on in the race
[39:10.320 -> 39:12.120] It can be that kind of case of it
[39:12.120 -> 39:16.520] You may you might actually convert your strategy to a like a two-stop strategy
[39:16.520 -> 39:19.680] If you if you see a big group of blue flags coming you go
[39:19.680 -> 39:23.240] Actually, if I take a bit stop against some fresh tires
[39:23.760 -> 39:26.140] I'm not gonna lose like 10 seconds of time
[39:26.140 -> 39:27.420] with these blue flags.
[39:27.420 -> 39:29.940] So I can pit, I'm already, say,
[39:29.940 -> 39:32.700] I'm behind this other car, I'll pit, go into a two stop.
[39:32.700 -> 39:34.060] If he doesn't take this same corner,
[39:34.060 -> 39:35.900] he's gonna lose his 10 seconds of blue flags.
[39:35.900 -> 39:38.260] So then I'm only eight, nine seconds behind him
[39:38.260 -> 39:39.260] on fresh tyres.
[39:39.260 -> 39:41.500] Potentially I might catch him up now, actually, with this.
[39:41.500 -> 39:43.860] So there is that aspect of it as well.
[39:43.860 -> 39:46.560] So yeah, blue flags has a huge effect.
[39:47.760 -> 39:50.000] It's also the rule I'd love to get rid of.
[39:51.960 -> 39:54.760] Now, not so much before, but now.
[39:54.760 -> 39:56.320] No, no, no, but like I kind of feel,
[39:56.320 -> 39:59.480] but in terms of actually for a leader strategy
[39:59.480 -> 40:02.120] point of view, if blue flags have gone,
[40:02.120 -> 40:03.520] they have to change their strategy
[40:03.520 -> 40:06.000] because then it does become a fence like I'm gonna catch some back
[40:06.000 -> 40:06.560] Max here
[40:06.560 -> 40:11.840] I'm gonna catch his group of my markers and I'm not gonna go through so is it better for me to pit stop or to
[40:11.840 -> 40:16.760] Try and get through them. I'm not going to overtake them and and I kind of think sometimes so
[40:17.520 -> 40:23.000] Maybe you know like it's even more relevant because you've got cars who can overtake like
[40:24.440 -> 40:27.600] Actually, it's not a case of you're going to get stuck behind a...
[40:27.600 -> 40:28.800] Yeah, like Monaco obviously.
[40:28.800 -> 40:30.000] Monaco, yeah.
[40:30.000 -> 40:33.400] But yeah, you're stuck behind a TP for 17 laps,
[40:33.400 -> 40:36.000] and not anymore unfortunately.
[40:36.000 -> 40:41.800] But yeah, it's definitely something I'd consider,
[40:41.800 -> 40:44.800] or at least do some evaluation on what effect it would have,
[40:44.800 -> 40:47.640] because I do think it would definitely
[40:47.640 -> 40:50.000] add a new strategic element to both
[40:50.000 -> 40:52.000] be a back markers and your leaders as well.
[40:52.000 -> 40:53.520] I'm just imagining the conflict
[40:53.520 -> 40:57.560] in the future making of Caulfield, the movie,
[40:57.560 -> 40:59.180] where you make that transition,
[40:59.180 -> 41:01.300] you make that mistake on race four
[41:01.300 -> 41:03.200] and someone turns to you on the pit wall,
[41:03.200 -> 41:05.040] Mercedes no more Caulfield.
[41:05.040 -> 41:09.760] You're in us now, you know, look at the arrogance of him. And then that's a conflict point. And then
[41:09.760 -> 41:14.560] you and that Northern guy become best friends in the end, I imagine. Is it Sean Bean? Yeah,
[41:14.560 -> 41:19.920] yeah. All my, my, my go to Northern is all Sean Bean. And he, he has to obviously die tragically
[41:19.920 -> 41:24.320] at the end, presumably murdered. Sorry, Matt, you were trying to get in there for a sec.
[41:24.320 -> 41:26.480] the end, presumably murdered. Sorry, Matt, you were trying to get in there for a sec. Matthew 15 Well, I was thinking you
[41:26.480 -> 41:31.440] answered our last quickfire question from Ed Moses, which is what change would you make
[41:31.440 -> 41:37.440] to randomize, to randomize things a little bit that the FIA or FOM might approve of that's not
[41:37.440 -> 41:41.920] like sprinklers or blue shells, as is currently being discussed, but it sounds like you would
[41:41.920 -> 41:45.220] just get rid of blue flags to shake things up.
[41:45.220 -> 41:50.580] I mean, like I said, like, like every, like going back to an early question for everything
[41:50.580 -> 41:54.420] goes through quite a serious amount of simulations and analysis.
[41:54.420 -> 41:58.820] And it could turn out, it could actually be a total disaster, but it is something that
[41:58.820 -> 42:03.420] looks out quite often, but yeah, I don't, I mean, I watch IndyCar quite a lot these
[42:03.420 -> 42:05.440] days and it does seem to
[42:05.440 -> 42:10.560] have a kind of a good effect in it and in there where they don't have to do facts.
[42:10.560 -> 42:14.960] And yeah, if you've got the pace advantage as leader and you've got cars which can now
[42:14.960 -> 42:18.920] overtake and you've got that little bit of an offset in terms of tyres, then I don't
[42:18.920 -> 42:23.840] see why it doesn't offer that additional bit of strategic element.
[42:23.840 -> 42:26.320] And it does mix up the races as well, because
[42:26.320 -> 42:30.720] if you don't get that right at the front, then you might be like, yeah, you might be seven,
[42:30.720 -> 42:36.480] eight seconds in the lead, but you don't get this call right, or you inadvertently pit into a group
[42:36.480 -> 42:42.160] who've just also pitted, and then someone in second place can then take advantage. So yeah,
[42:42.160 -> 42:46.880] in terms of randomizing things, until everyone works out the best way of doing it.
[42:46.880 -> 42:52.400] Yeah, but you know you're going to have like Alonso fighting every lapped, you know,
[42:52.400 -> 42:56.720] every lapped position to the death in his Aston Martin next season. And he would, you know,
[42:57.280 -> 43:02.000] that would be kind of like a way to settle old scores kind of thing for the back. I can see
[43:02.000 -> 43:05.600] that getting messy, but maybe we're, maybe we should all be here for it.
[43:05.600 -> 43:13.120] Mike Caulfield, ex F1 strategist and suspiciously lurking around the paddock as well these days and
[43:13.120 -> 43:17.520] I hope we see you back in a team at some point soon. Well, maybe not too soon because we've
[43:17.520 -> 43:22.160] benefited from having you here in the shed. So I'll just say thank you very much for your time.
[43:22.160 -> 43:31.400] I don't believe we can follow you on social media so we will put your home address in the show notes below. Mike Caulfield, F1 strategist,
[43:31.400 -> 43:35.080] thank you for making us better F1 armchair strategists.
[43:35.080 -> 43:49.280] Mike Caulfield Cheers, mate. Looking for a fun way to win up to 25 times your money this basketball season?
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[44:54.520 -> 44:54.920] Thanks Spanners. F1 strategy always seems like high speed black magic to me.
[44:59.080 -> 44:59.400] I mean, there's just so much to consider and so little time to do it in.
[45:01.400 -> 45:02.000] The stress levels must be enormous.
[45:04.760 -> 45:10.760] I guess that's why there's no old strategists around. Next up, Spanners and Trumpets sat down with YouTuber, content creator and sim
[45:10.760 -> 45:15.400] racer Aiden Millwood for a look at the perils of racing in the rain and what we
[45:15.400 -> 45:19.520] might be able to do to improve the situation for both the racers and the fans.
[45:19.520 -> 45:30.680] Hi guys, Spanners here and this is part of our off-season. We're bringing you interesting
[45:30.680 -> 45:37.640] segments. That's the aim anyway. Matt is also here. Hi Matt, thanks for joining me
[45:37.640 -> 45:42.000] or remaining with me, depending on where this segment ends up. I'm not in control. Thanks
[45:42.000 -> 45:46.680] to Uncle Steve for putting these together from the Myst Apex broom cupboard.
[45:46.680 -> 45:52.600] But recently I have been finding myself curious about why so much is going wrong during rainy
[45:52.600 -> 46:00.440] days in Formula One. Monaco this year, Spa 2021, it all seemed like a bit of a mess and
[46:00.440 -> 46:04.800] people didn't seem to know exactly what the plan was going forward. Certainly viewers
[46:04.800 -> 46:08.200] didn't understand. And it felt like in the olden days the
[46:08.200 -> 46:11.960] Knights of Yore would just mount their soggy steeds and go to battle in the
[46:11.960 -> 46:18.900] rain and the snow and fire. But it turns out it is all down to the tyres and how
[46:18.900 -> 46:24.180] they behave in the rain and since no one on the Mist Apex crew is even remotely
[46:24.180 -> 46:25.640] interested in tyres we've had to call in crew is even remotely interested in tyres, we've
[46:25.640 -> 46:31.520] had to call in outside help. So today in the shed, we're going to make a new friend and
[46:31.520 -> 46:36.400] we're going to introduce you to streamer and sim racer and YouTube content creator Aiden
[46:36.400 -> 46:41.840] Millward, who was introduced to me by Kyle Power. And I liked his content so much, I
[46:41.840 -> 46:46.400] wanted to introduce him to all my Myst Apex friends. Aiden, thanks for joining us in the shed.
[46:46.400 -> 46:50.200] Aiden – It's good to be here. It's something I don't do very often, but any opportunity
[46:50.200 -> 46:53.960] is a good opportunity, so I'll try to answer any questions you've got.
[46:53.960 -> 46:58.400] AO – As in, you don't go outside of your own content bubble very often? Because I'm
[46:58.400 -> 46:59.800] the same with leaving the house.
[46:59.800 -> 47:03.760] Aiden – Weirdly, I don't watch any of the other F1 YouTubers.
[47:03.760 -> 47:06.000] AO – Really? I try to pretend they don't exist.
[47:06.000 -> 47:10.000] Because I don't want to end up saying what they've just said. I'll just punch my monitor.
[47:10.000 -> 47:17.000] Oh, well, we've got a solution to that. And what me and Matt tend to do is we just hit record as soon as we can after a race,
[47:17.000 -> 47:21.000] so that we're just spouting our ignorance into the void very early,
[47:21.000 -> 47:28.880] and thus we don't even get a chance to to hear what the the official f1 pundit say yeah that is probably that's one way of doing it but you also
[47:28.880 -> 47:33.000] run the risk of that whole I need to be first to get the content out so you end
[47:33.000 -> 47:37.040] up being wrong chatting stuff that's quite wrong I'm happy to leave stuff
[47:37.040 -> 47:40.540] for about three or four days before I end up doing it because then everybody
[47:40.540 -> 47:43.140] else has said what they need sell the experts have had their bit to say and I
[47:43.140 -> 47:48.720] can go yeah I agree with that or I don't agree with that. Okay well it's a good job our motto isn't
[47:48.720 -> 47:54.800] literally we might be wrong but we're first. But we will try to be right here now that we've got
[47:54.800 -> 47:59.840] an expert on the panel. Tell us a bit about your YouTube channel first because I was looking at
[47:59.840 -> 48:05.800] your racing and despite using monitors and not correctly using VR, you do seem quite
[48:05.800 -> 48:06.800] quick.
[48:06.800 -> 48:13.440] Well, I don't use VR because it makes me violently motion sick, because I've got to have the
[48:13.440 -> 48:19.600] old peepers on. So it's quite an experience using VR, but it's just something I've been
[48:19.600 -> 48:23.760] doing for a while. And I started out doing the sim racing stuff, but then ended up falling
[48:23.760 -> 48:29.360] into the motorsport history stuff with a video I did driving the Andrea motor car from 1992.
[48:29.360 -> 48:33.480] So I told a little bit of the story about it and it's like, well, this is mental.
[48:33.480 -> 48:36.800] So I ended up telling the story and then it's just roll from there really.
[48:36.800 -> 48:39.720] And I do the sim racing stuff from time to time.
[48:39.720 -> 48:49.000] And I got the opportunity to jump on the lockdown sim racing stuff and ended up doing alright
[48:49.000 -> 48:50.000] in that.
[48:50.000 -> 48:53.000] I don't talk about that experience at all, ever, to anybody.
[48:53.000 -> 48:54.000] So...
[48:54.000 -> 48:55.000] Oh, I would.
[48:55.000 -> 48:56.000] It's quite mad.
[48:56.000 -> 48:59.400] It's like, that's pretty much spangling my rearview mirror.
[48:59.400 -> 49:02.280] Okay, right, this is happening, but carry on doing that.
[49:02.280 -> 49:05.360] And I kind of want to do some more stuff with that and I have
[49:05.360 -> 49:11.120] got something in the works for next year because it'll be the 25th anniversary of Tokka 2 because
[49:11.120 -> 49:17.520] I figured I might try and do the 1998 BTCC season in GTR2 or something like with the Super Touring
[49:17.520 -> 49:23.600] mod. See I don't want to get too much into content into sim racing or or video games as Tokka was
[49:24.160 -> 49:25.800] because people get upset with that.
[49:25.800 -> 49:31.320] But I just discovered that my whole gaming experience is a lie because I was thinking
[49:31.320 -> 49:36.240] about this new success ballast thing that Ross Brawn was talking about, making the front
[49:36.240 -> 49:40.440] car nerfed a little bit so that the rear cars can catch up. And I was saying to the guys,
[49:40.440 -> 49:46.240] oh, that's just like the Porsche Challenge on PS1 in 1997 and Brad and Alex were like no,
[49:46.240 -> 49:52.480] like nearly all of those arcade style racing games did it, including Tokka, had a success
[49:52.480 -> 49:56.480] ballast if you were the front car and I feel like my whole gaming career is a lie.
[49:56.480 -> 49:58.240] Geoff Yeah, they've only just got rid of that in
[49:58.240 -> 50:03.920] the Touareg cars, so the limited hybrid, well I say hybrid, limited KERS boost, but it's,
[50:06.000 -> 50:12.360] I don't know if they're going to try and bring that back because they've just ended up probably a bit too OP at the minute,
[50:12.360 -> 50:17.480] as you get one driver winning all three races, it's kind of not how they wanted to do it,
[50:17.480 -> 50:20.040] but at least they can run in the wet.
[50:20.040 -> 50:23.720] Ah, and running in the wet is exactly what we want to talk to you about.
[50:23.720 -> 50:26.000] So why did it seem like such chaos in about. So why did it seem like such
[50:26.000 -> 50:32.960] chaos in Spa and why did it seem like such chaos in Monaco this year? I mean, I'm exaggerating a
[50:32.960 -> 50:38.400] little bit and I understand that safety standards in the olden days and the cars were slower and
[50:38.400 -> 50:49.720] different, but it really did feel like every time there was rain in the olden days we all rubbed our hands together with glee and went, woohoo, here we go! Whereas now, when there's rain on the
[50:49.720 -> 50:54.200] forecast actually fills me with a little bit of dread because you go, well, they're so
[50:54.200 -> 51:02.600] desperate to start within a TV window, yet they also seem crippled by safety considerations
[51:02.600 -> 51:05.880] and whatever's going on with the tires that actually it
[51:05.880 -> 51:11.160] makes for terrible TV now. What's happening Aidan? Well you go back to I
[51:11.160 -> 51:19.520] mean the big one for that which was Suzuka 2014. Apparently, this is rumored, I
[51:19.520 -> 51:23.520] don't know if it actually happened but apparently Charlie and Bernie said to
[51:23.520 -> 51:25.280] the Japanese organisers,
[51:25.840 -> 51:30.640] can we start the race a little bit earlier to try and avoid this typhoon that's rolling in?
[51:31.600 -> 51:37.680] Japanese culture is as such that if you say that you're going to turn up at three o'clock,
[51:37.680 -> 51:41.200] as you know, we're filming this just after two o'clock in the afternoon, you said come for two
[51:41.200 -> 51:45.920] o'clock, I was here before two o'clock. You've committed to that. You cannot change or delete.
[51:45.920 -> 51:49.040] That's why the public transport is so good and always on time because they say, right,
[51:49.040 -> 51:51.040] this train is turning up at three o'clock in the afternoon.
[51:51.040 -> 51:52.040] It's going to be there.
[51:52.040 -> 51:57.040] And they couldn't come to some sort of an agreement to say, look, fans are going to
[51:57.040 -> 51:58.040] be turned up.
[51:58.040 -> 52:00.040] They can't change it at the last minute, so on and so forth.
[52:00.040 -> 52:03.920] And you just have to be a bit sensitive that Matt is a musician and this is all brand new
[52:03.920 -> 52:04.920] information to him.
[52:04.920 -> 52:05.480] He had no idea that's how timings worked. Me too. You just have to be a bit sensitive that Matt is a musician and this is all brand new information to him.
[52:05.480 -> 52:07.360] He had no idea that's how timings worked.
[52:07.360 -> 52:08.360] Me too.
[52:08.360 -> 52:16.000] I've got an audio engineering degree, so it's weird how many musicians and audio engineers
[52:16.000 -> 52:18.600] and people like that are involved in this kind of thing, isn't it?
[52:18.600 -> 52:19.600] Yeah, it's natural.
[52:19.600 -> 52:25.760] But then, obviously, Jule had his horrific accident, which, okay, there shouldn't have
[52:25.760 -> 52:30.880] been that tractor there. Martin Brundle did exactly the same thing in 1994. He actually
[52:30.880 -> 52:36.240] got in trouble with the FIA for saying you can't do that. Fast forward to, well, I say fast forward,
[52:36.240 -> 52:42.720] rewind to 1997. And that is actually the first time that a Grand Prix started behind the safety car.
[52:43.680 -> 52:44.160] Is it?
[52:44.160 -> 52:44.800] Yeah.
[52:44.800 -> 52:45.880] As recently as that.
[52:45.880 -> 52:46.880] 1997, as far as I'm aware.
[52:46.880 -> 52:56.120] There might be an anorak in the audience going, no, it was actually the 19...
[52:56.120 -> 53:03.960] Following year, 1998, worst conditions, David Cawthorne drops it on a drain cover and we
[53:03.960 -> 53:05.040] know what happened next.
[53:05.040 -> 53:11.920] So if anyone hasn't seen the Spa 1998 lap 1, that was incredible and that's quite a long time ago now.
[53:11.920 -> 53:14.000] I'd have said that was way more recently if you'd last read it.
[53:14.000 -> 53:14.960] 25 years next year.
[53:14.960 -> 53:19.920] 1998. So yeah, it was, so Coulthard loses it after turn one and then basically...
[53:19.920 -> 53:21.360] Goes down the hill to Eau Rouge.
[53:21.360 -> 53:26.160] No one can see him. I think 14 cars in the end are involved in that pileup.
[53:26.160 -> 53:30.960] 14 cars and then Rosset deciding he was going to go full iRacing yellow flag, I'm just going to
[53:31.600 -> 53:37.120] gun it and risk it and just plow us into the back of it. And of course in those days as well there
[53:37.120 -> 53:42.640] were spare cars so there was people running back to try to get to the t-car and if you're the number
[53:42.640 -> 53:48.800] two driver you have to hope that the number one driver hasn't also wrecked their car because the t-car will be set up for him and given
[53:48.800 -> 53:58.720] to him. Yeah so we then Damon won that race but in that race we saw the reason why races tend to not
[53:58.720 -> 54:06.080] happen today because i think it was going down the hill between No Name and Poo-On.
[54:06.080 -> 54:09.160] Schumacher goes to pull out of the spray behind Coulthard.
[54:09.160 -> 54:10.720] Oh yes.
[54:10.720 -> 54:15.760] You watch the footage, he does pull back in a little bit, smacks into the back of McLaren,
[54:15.760 -> 54:21.760] three wheels, and then it was like WWE, it was like Schumacher going down the...
[54:21.760 -> 54:26.160] Apparently, I've read Coulthard's autobiography and he's obviously
[54:26.160 -> 54:31.040] talking about that and I think it's probably the bit that everybody skips to and he said something
[54:31.040 -> 54:34.800] to the effect of, I don't know why Michael was coming down the pit lane to punch me,
[54:34.800 -> 54:42.960] I still have my helmet on. You'd be an idiot to punch someone who's still got... but if you're
[54:42.960 -> 54:48.240] angry you're angry. I think if you're newer to Formula One, that is probably just worth one, just going into
[54:48.240 -> 54:50.240] the YouTube archives, isn't it?
[54:50.240 -> 54:54.960] And seeing if you can find some kind of highlights real, because that was an incredibly dramatic
[54:54.960 -> 54:55.960] race.
[54:55.960 -> 55:00.160] But you say that this kind of wake people up to saying, well, hang on a minute, maybe
[55:00.160 -> 55:02.000] we should be starting under the safety car more.
[55:02.000 -> 55:03.320] I think a little bit.
[55:03.320 -> 55:05.760] I would say the wheels back
[55:05.760 -> 55:13.200] then were smaller and during the the 2021 Belgian Grand Prix I think some of the drivers like Russell,
[55:14.080 -> 55:19.360] like Verstappen, like Hamilton, I think Vettel as well, were saying if it was just me out there it'd
[55:19.360 -> 55:25.000] be fine. But the grip level wasn't fine, it's the spray. Yeah, so the grip level was okay.
[55:25.000 -> 55:30.000] Yeah, I mean there probably would be a little bit of aquaplaning because there is going to be if there's a puddle or whatever, but
[55:30.000 -> 55:37.000] if you can't see the lights of the car in front of you, then it's like trying to land in thick fog.
[55:37.000 -> 55:41.000] It's like, is that the runway or is that someone's house that I'm approaching?
[55:41.000 -> 55:47.280] What am I looking at if I can't see the guy? Lando, I think it was Lando, wasn't it?
[55:47.280 -> 55:52.480] Qualifying or practice, spent at the top of Radeon? And then you just got to think, well,
[55:52.480 -> 55:58.840] hang on a minute, we're saying that this has happened, but two years prior to that happening,
[55:58.840 -> 56:07.440] Hubert in dry. And if there was a fatal there, I guarantee the first thing anyone would be
[56:07.440 -> 56:10.320] saying on social media is, how is this allowed to happen?
[56:10.320 -> 56:17.160] Yeah, that was a scary one, the Norris one. Matt, do you remember this was part of Sebastian
[56:17.160 -> 56:23.160] Vettel's renaissance, as Uncle said, wasn't it? This way he sort of pulled over to make
[56:23.160 -> 56:25.120] sure that Norris was okay.
[56:25.120 -> 56:29.800] But I think everyone had that same, that feeling, that horrible feeling. As soon as you see
[56:29.800 -> 56:33.960] debris at the top of the hill, you know, you think of Hubert coming back onto track.
[56:33.960 -> 56:39.560] Yeah, well, I mean, and there had been really a campaign to try and fix the barriers to
[56:39.560 -> 56:45.200] keep that from happening from, I believe, a sports car wreck. I mean, this is not even an issue at the top of
[56:45.200 -> 56:52.160] that hill, limited to Formula One. But I'm interested that you're focusing so much on
[56:52.160 -> 57:00.400] visibility, because now you're pointing out that it's not just in recent times, which is sort of
[57:00.400 -> 57:05.360] what the reporting has led us to believe, But back to the late 90s, visibility
[57:06.400 -> 57:13.200] in the wet and obviously in the midst of crashes with lots of smoke is clearly a safety issue. Do
[57:13.200 -> 57:18.800] we know if the FIA is thinking about doing anything? I did see something about these
[57:20.480 -> 57:26.480] mudguards that they want to put in because it's... I don't know if you've ever driven
[57:26.480 -> 57:30.260] down a motorway in the wet and there's a lorry in front of you and it's raining and your
[57:30.260 -> 57:36.480] wipers can't keep up. It's practically the same. I mean, there was a series back in Britain
[57:36.480 -> 57:45.840] in the 90s. Damon Hill was being interviewed by Clive Owen, I think it was, not Clive
[57:45.840 -> 57:47.920] Anderson, because he's a comedian, I think Clive Owen, I
[57:47.920 -> 57:50.840] think his name was, where he was interviewing Damon Hill and
[57:50.840 -> 57:55.760] following him through his year. And he actually said, what do
[57:55.760 -> 57:58.720] you see from the car in front of you when it's raining? And
[57:58.720 -> 58:02.280] Damon just went, damn all, just without even thinking about it.
[58:02.280 -> 58:11.120] It's actually had the experience of being taken around Silverstone with Radical at the beginning
[58:11.120 -> 58:13.120] of last month, and it was raining that day.
[58:13.120 -> 58:18.320] It was only drizzling, but even going down the Hangar Strait by yourself, 160 miles an
[58:18.320 -> 58:24.920] hour, I found myself having to wipe the visor and stuff, because it's like, hang on a minute,
[58:24.920 -> 58:25.720] are you able
[58:25.720 -> 58:26.720] to see anything?
[58:26.720 -> 58:32.720] I went down in a production, a race-adapted production car, relatively low speed, it was
[58:32.720 -> 58:38.680] a Peugeot 207, I want to say, but you know, quick enough, but it was absolutely hoeing
[58:38.680 -> 58:46.800] down with rain, and I missed turn one, so I missed Abbey and thank goodness, I will never drive a track that
[58:46.800 -> 58:51.600] hasn't got run off after that because I just missed Abbey and went straight on and ended
[58:51.600 -> 58:55.960] up doing a little spin trying to make sure that I didn't go any further into the wall.
[58:55.960 -> 59:02.400] But that's in a car with wipers and a big screen. What on earth do they do in a tiny
[59:02.400 -> 59:05.600] cockpit out of a small slit in the visor? If it's as bad
[59:05.600 -> 59:10.980] as everyone's saying it is, how come we just accept it? Why not just go to, say, be like
[59:10.980 -> 59:15.520] cricket and go, if it's really heavy rain and you won't be able to see, maybe we just
[59:15.520 -> 59:16.520] do it on Monday?
[59:16.520 -> 59:21.000] That's what NASCAR does, isn't it? It's just like, oh yeah, it's raining a bit too much
[59:21.000 -> 59:22.000] here boys, let's come back tomorrow.
[59:22.000 -> 59:25.900] Do they do that, Matt? Sorry, Matt to the, sorry, Matt, you're American.
[59:25.900 -> 59:27.700] Tell us about NASCAR in the rain.
[59:27.700 -> 59:29.380] Therefore, I'm an expert on NASCAR.
[59:29.380 -> 59:30.060] Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
[59:30.060 -> 59:31.860] Of course.
[59:31.860 -> 59:33.020] They do.
[59:33.020 -> 59:35.780] But we also get here, especially where
[59:35.780 -> 59:37.300] they tend to run the races, we also
[59:37.300 -> 59:43.260] get big, massive electrical storms, lots of lightning.
[59:43.260 -> 59:47.440] So they will do that, and also high winds, which is not always
[59:47.440 -> 59:50.600] ideal when you're running at those speeds so close together.
[59:50.600 -> 59:55.840] So I think we're getting into the problem-solving part of this. We do this on Myst Apex a lot,
[59:55.840 -> 01:00:01.160] Aiden. You'll have to get on board. We literally just solve all the problems in F1 super easily.
[01:00:01.160 -> 01:00:11.600] But when you get into the problem-solving part of it, so the first proposal is these detachable mudguards and I'm just waiting for the first team that somehow gets aero parts onto those
[01:00:11.600 -> 01:00:17.120] mudguards. Yeah, the thing I was thinking is they stick these aero, well not aero, but these mudguards
[01:00:17.120 -> 01:00:26.720] in behind the rear wheels like the old Dallara DW12 from IndyCar, where it had the fairings on the back, and it's
[01:00:26.720 -> 01:00:31.680] like, there's gonna be some... there's gonna be one team where they're gonna put those
[01:00:31.680 -> 01:00:36.080] on and it's gonna mess with the rear part of the floor, even though it's behind the
[01:00:36.080 -> 01:00:37.080] wheel.
[01:00:37.080 -> 01:00:40.560] And it's like, are these gonna be spec?
[01:00:40.560 -> 01:00:44.960] Yeah, you think they're gonna have to be spec, and they're gonna have to be detachable, I
[01:00:44.960 -> 01:00:45.520] guess? And will they have to come in and out of going to have to be detachable, I guess?
[01:00:45.520 -> 01:00:48.600] And will they have to come in and out of the pits to take them on and off?
[01:00:48.600 -> 01:00:49.600] Yeah, exactly.
[01:00:49.600 -> 01:00:50.600] Matt, sorry.
[01:00:50.600 -> 01:00:57.600] Yeah, well, I think even the bigger issue here is, one, will that mean the track doesn't
[01:00:57.600 -> 01:01:03.200] dry because now we're redirecting spray back down onto what would normally be the dry line
[01:01:03.200 -> 01:01:06.320] created when you move that water.
[01:01:06.320 -> 01:01:12.000] But even more importantly, I've seen the question raised of, is the spray problem even really
[01:01:12.000 -> 01:01:13.440] coming from the tires?
[01:01:13.440 -> 01:01:15.560] Is it more coming from the diffuser?
[01:01:15.560 -> 01:01:22.560] And I don't know the answer to that question, not being a bona fide aerodynamicist, but
[01:01:22.560 -> 01:01:29.860] it immediately occurs to me that, you know, your cockpit is sat in the center line of the car and the wheels are off to the side. So, unless the
[01:01:29.860 -> 01:01:35.240] spray from the tires is getting sucked down into the center line, it seems like to me
[01:01:35.240 -> 01:01:38.920] that the real issue for the driver being able to see the car in front would be spray coming
[01:01:38.920 -> 01:01:46.360] out of the diffuser, and I'm not sure mud flapsaps is gonna solve that problem. That's a good point. Yeah, and I guess also,
[01:01:46.360 -> 01:01:49.720] like, okay, we go, Matt's super old, I'm 42,
[01:01:49.720 -> 01:01:52.280] Aiden, you look like a sprightly 28,
[01:01:52.280 -> 01:01:54.200] but I guess you might be a little older.
[01:01:54.200 -> 01:01:55.020] 32.
[01:01:55.020 -> 01:01:56.360] 32, oh, that's not bad,
[01:01:56.360 -> 01:01:57.440] so you've still got some hope.
[01:01:57.440 -> 01:01:58.440] Rough paper round.
[01:01:58.440 -> 01:02:00.360] Yeah, yeah, yeah, uphill, yeah.
[01:02:00.360 -> 01:02:03.400] But in the olden days,
[01:02:03.400 -> 01:02:06.120] yeah, the attitude to safety was different.
[01:02:06.120 -> 01:02:10.880] And there was that kind of bravado and machismo that people like,
[01:02:10.880 -> 01:02:14.440] yeah, well, of course, injury and death is all part of it.
[01:02:14.640 -> 01:02:17.200] I don't think there's that same kind of attitude.
[01:02:17.320 -> 01:02:20.480] There's not that same gladiatorial,
[01:02:20.480 -> 01:02:22.280] especially not here on the Myst Apex crew.
[01:02:22.280 -> 01:02:25.920] Like if I could remove all danger from it, it wouldn't affect me at all.
[01:02:25.920 -> 01:02:27.080] So I think it comes down to like,
[01:02:27.080 -> 01:02:29.160] what's the acceptable risk?
[01:02:29.160 -> 01:02:32.340] And they've been more risk averse recently
[01:02:32.340 -> 01:02:33.960] with getting the starts going.
[01:02:33.960 -> 01:02:36.040] And I can't argue with that,
[01:02:36.040 -> 01:02:39.240] cause I like safety, saying we have to win every day,
[01:02:39.240 -> 01:02:41.400] death only has to win once.
[01:02:41.400 -> 01:02:43.880] But it doesn't make for good telly, does it?
[01:02:43.880 -> 01:02:48.700] Well, it's funny you mentioned that, cause yesterday I did a video about speed limits in the pit lane and how all that
[01:02:48.700 -> 01:02:58.000] started and someone commented, it's like, how could that Imola weekend of 1994, 12 people were hospitalized, two people
[01:02:58.000 -> 01:02:58.480] died.
[01:02:58.560 -> 01:02:59.080] No.
[01:02:59.680 -> 01:03:00.360] 12 people.
[01:03:01.560 -> 01:03:12.120] From? Barrichello, Senna, Ratzenberger. Three drivers. Eight spectators, a policeman, and three mechanics in the pit lane.
[01:03:12.120 -> 01:03:16.360] It was a different time, but that's not even that long ago.
[01:03:16.360 -> 01:03:21.880] But the thing was, Formula One was being beamed into everybody's living room that day.
[01:03:21.880 -> 01:03:27.560] The face of the sport, the most famous racing driver at that time, dead.
[01:03:27.560 -> 01:03:33.640] So imagine if this had happened today with Hamilton or Verstappen or one of those two
[01:03:33.640 -> 01:03:34.640] drivers.
[01:03:34.640 -> 01:03:36.440] Plus now we've got the internet.
[01:03:36.440 -> 01:03:41.320] Think of how quickly Hubert's crash was put on YouTube and Twitter and Facebook afterwards.
[01:03:41.320 -> 01:03:48.600] It would be... they've then got to think of TV contracts, sponsor contracts, insurance,
[01:03:48.600 -> 01:03:50.600] legal, all this other stuff.
[01:03:50.600 -> 01:03:56.640] So I think it's like when they say, oh, they don't put Frankie Boyle on TV anymore, they
[01:03:56.640 -> 01:03:59.200] don't put Ricky Gervais on TV anymore because he's too controversial.
[01:03:59.200 -> 01:04:00.200] It upsets people.
[01:04:00.200 -> 01:04:04.920] It's the producers and the lawyers going, we have not got the time to deal with the
[01:04:04.920 -> 01:04:05.600] stuff that this will bring, so we not got the time to deal with the stuff
[01:04:05.600 -> 01:04:07.440] that this will bring, so we're just not gonna bother
[01:04:07.440 -> 01:04:10.040] because we don't want to, we're just gonna avoid
[01:04:10.040 -> 01:04:11.840] as much of a storm as we possibly can.
[01:04:11.840 -> 01:04:13.440] What you're saying is realistic.
[01:04:13.440 -> 01:04:15.840] It's obviously, you know, it's the cold side of it,
[01:04:15.840 -> 01:04:18.000] isn't it, which is that the maths don't add up
[01:04:18.000 -> 01:04:20.160] for the lawyers and the PR people,
[01:04:20.160 -> 01:04:21.400] and I can completely understand that,
[01:04:21.400 -> 01:04:23.880] and that's fine, I get that,
[01:04:23.880 -> 01:04:31.440] but reminding me of that day as a 13- 13 year old, that probably explains a lot of why I'm risk averse with my attitude
[01:04:31.440 -> 01:04:36.080] towards Formula One and why I don't need it. Because 13 is a very influential age, isn't
[01:04:36.080 -> 01:04:41.760] it? And then suddenly seeing two drivers being killed in one weekend. And like you say, not
[01:04:41.760 -> 01:04:46.560] that Ratzenberger's death wasn't a tragedy, but Senna was an absolute icon
[01:04:46.560 -> 01:04:49.880] in the sport, had a kind of godlike appearance
[01:04:49.880 -> 01:04:52.560] within Formula One, and you go, what?
[01:04:52.560 -> 01:04:56.040] It seemed impossible that Ayrton Senna
[01:04:56.040 -> 01:04:58.880] could suddenly just be gone just like that.
[01:04:58.880 -> 01:04:59.720] And I'll-
[01:04:59.720 -> 01:05:00.840] The same thing happened with Jim Clark in 1968.
[01:05:00.840 -> 01:05:02.160] They went, well, hang on a minute.
[01:05:02.160 -> 01:05:03.960] If Jim Clark can be killed in a racing car,
[01:05:03.960 -> 01:05:05.220] I can be killed in a racing car. then I can be killed in a racing car.
[01:05:05.220 -> 01:05:11.340] And that was when they kind of finally woke up to the whole, um, the whole, the
[01:05:11.340 -> 01:05:15.040] whole safety thing, it's, it's, it's one of those unimaginable things.
[01:05:15.040 -> 01:05:19.680] It's like, imagine if Messi dropped on the pitch in the, in the world cup.
[01:05:20.360 -> 01:05:22.940] It'd be like, that's Messi or Ronaldo.
[01:05:22.980 -> 01:05:26.080] Or I mean, now with Pelé in hospital, it's
[01:05:26.080 -> 01:05:30.640] like, it's Pelé, it's one of the icons, it can't happen.
[01:05:30.640 -> 01:05:34.760] So this is it, Matt. I don't think we come across many people with that kind of gladiatorial
[01:05:34.760 -> 01:05:41.160] attitude anymore. So in the context of this conversation, you go, well, you can understand
[01:05:41.160 -> 01:05:49.840] they want to avoid as much risk as possible. So it almost becomes, right, what's the safety element? What's the thing they can do to get races going so it's not
[01:05:49.840 -> 01:05:56.880] boring? It's almost like, what's the least worst option? And safety car restarts, everyone
[01:05:56.880 -> 01:06:01.800] complains about that, but at least it gets the action going. I think in the olden days,
[01:06:01.800 -> 01:06:06.020] you go, oh, if it's a safety car restart, we miss the one good thing in F1,
[01:06:06.020 -> 01:06:07.600] which is the standing start on the grid,
[01:06:07.600 -> 01:06:08.940] because that used to be in the 90s,
[01:06:08.940 -> 01:06:10.560] the only time anything happened.
[01:06:10.560 -> 01:06:11.900] That's not actually the case anymore.
[01:06:11.900 -> 01:06:13.200] I don't know if standing,
[01:06:13.200 -> 01:06:15.440] if safety car rolling starts,
[01:06:15.440 -> 01:06:17.280] wouldn't be the end of the world,
[01:06:17.280 -> 01:06:20.160] you know, if they had them for every wet race.
[01:06:20.160 -> 01:06:23.560] No, but the thing about that that I do like
[01:06:23.560 -> 01:06:26.040] is it gives the drivers a real chance to taste
[01:06:26.040 -> 01:06:28.520] the visibility and let race control know.
[01:06:28.520 -> 01:06:31.680] Because at the end of the day, they're the ones sitting down there.
[01:06:31.680 -> 01:06:37.400] The issue always is, is that, you know, some of the drivers will be trying to either get
[01:06:37.400 -> 01:06:47.360] the race started if it's in their favor or get it not started if it's in their favor. So I really hope that someone is looking at ways
[01:06:47.360 -> 01:06:53.980] to make visibility better in those conditions so that we can start the races when the grip
[01:06:53.980 -> 01:06:55.840] is there for them to actually be racing.
[01:06:55.840 -> 01:06:59.480] But one of the points I saw in an excellent video you made on this a couple of months
[01:06:59.480 -> 01:07:04.240] ago was, you know, the grip doesn't seem to be too much of the issue. Because I've been
[01:07:04.240 -> 01:07:08.760] sitting here, I think probably wrongly going, well, where's the old monsoon tire? You know, the grip doesn't seem to be too much of the issue, because I've been sitting here I think probably wrongly going, well, where's the old monsoon tyre?
[01:07:08.760 -> 01:07:13.920] You know, but if the grip isn't really the issue, then, you know, it's not something
[01:07:13.920 -> 01:07:16.360] you can go to Pirelli, oh, you need to solve this.
[01:07:16.360 -> 01:07:17.360] And I think that's a common misconception.
[01:07:17.360 -> 01:07:23.840] But yeah, I think the other part is that when we're watching it on TV, from those angles,
[01:07:23.840 -> 01:07:24.840] it looks fine.
[01:07:24.840 -> 01:07:25.360] Yeah.
[01:07:25.360 -> 01:07:28.840] Because you can't see the rain on the camera, you can't see...
[01:07:28.840 -> 01:07:31.920] They've got all these setups so it's all protected and from where we're...
[01:07:31.920 -> 01:07:37.280] It looks fine, but you actually get down there and it looks like something else.
[01:07:37.280 -> 01:07:41.000] I mean, like I was saying going around Silverstone, the driver I was with was taking the wet line
[01:07:41.000 -> 01:07:48.080] through Stowe, and as soon as he got back onto where the dry line would be, rear end of the car wanted to slip. Oh, interesting.
[01:07:48.080 -> 01:07:53.600] Yeah, because of where the rubber gets wet and therefore doesn't generate any grip. And
[01:07:54.320 -> 01:08:01.280] going back to the whole thing about the starts, if it's raining and you have a 2012 moment,
[01:08:01.280 -> 01:08:07.680] like with Grosjean, and that wipes out 13 cars, they then do the race again, there's
[01:08:07.680 -> 01:08:10.640] seven cars remaining on the grid and everyone's just going, well this is boring isn't it?
[01:08:10.640 -> 01:08:11.040] Yeah.
[01:08:11.040 -> 01:08:14.960] So where do you draw the line?
[01:08:14.960 -> 01:08:18.480] Yeah, so actually look, yeah if you'd have asked me this 10 years ago and you'd have said, well
[01:08:18.480 -> 01:08:24.960] let's have more safety car starts to get the race going, I'd have gone, no! But actually the racing
[01:08:25.080 -> 01:08:32.280] starts to get the race going I'd have gone no but actually the the the racing mid race is so much more there's so much more action and more opportunity to race
[01:08:32.280 -> 01:08:36.500] now than there was say in the late 90s and early 2000s that maybe it's not the
[01:08:36.500 -> 01:08:40.400] end of the world I was brainstorming other things you know I the cricket one
[01:08:40.400 -> 01:08:44.800] for me I'm not a TV producer but it's like well just wait till Monday run it
[01:08:44.800 -> 01:08:45.200] on Monday I'm sure there used to be just wait till Monday, run it on Monday. I'm
[01:08:45.200 -> 01:08:48.960] sure there used to be an option where they could run it on the Monday but I don't think they ever
[01:08:48.960 -> 01:08:53.760] took it. I get that a lot in the comments when they say I'll just do this, just do that. Yeah
[01:08:53.760 -> 01:09:00.320] it's not that easy but we're sitting in a shed. Just put mud guards on them and it's like
[01:09:01.440 -> 01:09:06.320] that's probably just going to knacker the aero of the car and you might end up stalling the rear or something.
[01:09:06.320 -> 01:09:12.080] Could you have an engine mode, a rain engine mode, that somehow reduced power to make things
[01:09:12.080 -> 01:09:13.080] a little safer?
[01:09:13.080 -> 01:09:16.760] You've still got to chuck up spray, aren't you?
[01:09:16.760 -> 01:09:18.800] The spray is the issue.
[01:09:18.800 -> 01:09:24.600] I know that the cuts in the tyre are designed to try and flick as much of it away from the
[01:09:24.600 -> 01:09:28.960] tyre or away from the track as possible, but it's still being lobbed into the air and as soon as the wind
[01:09:28.960 -> 01:09:34.560] gets on it and blows it back onto the... it's like going through the smoke machine at your
[01:09:34.560 -> 01:09:38.560] school disco again, isn't it? You're just not going to be able to see a thing through there.
[01:09:38.560 -> 01:09:44.480] I like that you touched on going off the racing line in the wet weather, and if you find yourself
[01:09:44.480 -> 01:09:46.000] on a rainy day on
[01:09:46.000 -> 01:09:50.280] a kart track, you can experiment with this, you can see it. If you try and take the normal
[01:09:50.280 -> 01:09:56.000] racing line, your tyres just won't bite. And say you hit the brakes, you're skidding, because
[01:09:56.000 -> 01:10:00.060] you will, you'll lock the brakes really easily. As soon as you go off the racing line, if
[01:10:00.060 -> 01:10:10.320] you've got the wheel just turned, you'll suddenly go, oh there's grip and it bites and it turns in because it just it won't the tires won't find a contact patch on the slippery
[01:10:10.320 -> 01:10:14.640] rubbered in parts of the track they have to wait till you get to the the unused part of the track
[01:10:14.640 -> 01:10:21.680] so it's really interesting watching uh say races like 2018-2019 Verstappen in Brazil where he just
[01:10:21.680 -> 01:10:25.600] blew everyone away with that second place finish and ended up
[01:10:25.600 -> 01:10:30.880] lapping Ricciardo. Or when you look at the Monaco Grand Prix between Rosberg and Hamilton, Hamilton
[01:10:30.880 -> 01:10:36.160] ended up lapping Rosberg and you go, how come some of these drivers can navigate that and others just
[01:10:36.160 -> 01:10:41.440] don't seem to be able to? It's almost like Vestappen and Hamilton are both very, very, very,
[01:10:41.440 -> 01:10:46.080] very good at what they do. Good at driving race cars. Yeah, maybe. No, it's the car.
[01:10:46.080 -> 01:10:48.160] It's just the car. It's all the car, isn't it? For both of them.
[01:10:48.160 -> 01:10:49.040] Always. It's always the car.
[01:10:49.840 -> 01:10:57.600] Okay, so look, I'll leave this with you then. We don't want boring events like Spa21. We don't
[01:10:57.600 -> 01:11:02.640] want to be hanging around like Monaco. We also want everything to be safe and nice and lovely. So,
[01:11:02.640 -> 01:11:08.800] Aidan Millward, YouTuber, a sim racer, new friend of Missed Apex podcast, solve it
[01:11:08.800 -> 01:11:09.800] for us.
[01:11:09.800 -> 01:11:10.800] What do we do?
[01:11:10.800 -> 01:11:15.680] That's not an encouraging sound.
[01:11:15.680 -> 01:11:30.840] I don't think you can, unless you do something to the diffuser, like Matt was saying, or you do some, or you, you bring back that something like an ultra super duper monsoon tire, or I think, I think
[01:11:30.840 -> 01:11:36.040] for the foreseeable future, I think starting a race under full wet weather
[01:11:36.040 -> 01:11:37.820] tire conditions, isn't going to happen.
[01:11:37.840 -> 01:11:41.560] If it happens later in the race, like it did in Russia last year, probably.
[01:11:42.260 -> 01:11:47.840] I think that it's with, with sponsors and legal and contracts and the billions of
[01:11:47.840 -> 01:11:55.040] dollars that go into it, I think hands are well and truly tied and Formula One has backed
[01:11:55.040 -> 01:12:00.080] itself into a corner because of these constant multi-billion dollar contracts it keeps signing.
[01:12:00.080 -> 01:12:06.880] I think we need a stat man here for wet races, but I'm sure there was a few seasons a while
[01:12:06.880 -> 01:12:13.200] back where there was absolutely no wet races for several seasons in a row. And I'm wondering
[01:12:13.200 -> 01:12:17.920] whether that has to do with scheduling and whether there can be more of an effort to not, say,
[01:12:18.480 -> 01:12:20.400] race in Japan in monsoon season.
[01:12:21.200 -> 01:12:26.200] Well, it's why Canada's in that weird bubble.
[01:12:26.200 -> 01:12:31.760] Because if you try to race in Canada in October with the US Grand Prix, Montreal is far too
[01:12:31.760 -> 01:12:33.020] cold.
[01:12:33.020 -> 01:12:38.920] You try to race in April with Miami, it's too cold.
[01:12:38.920 -> 01:12:43.880] It has to be at the beginning of June where the weather in Montreal is guaranteed to be
[01:12:43.880 -> 01:12:46.440] at least 21 degrees. It's
[01:12:46.440 -> 01:12:48.640] why we don't race at Silverstone in November.
[01:12:48.640 -> 01:12:54.080] Yeah, I know. For any non-Brits who've gone to Silverstone during the Grand Prix, it's
[01:12:54.080 -> 01:13:02.120] always hot. But that is the only hot month. If you try to race there any other time, you
[01:13:02.120 -> 01:13:10.320] would never get the tyres fired up or you'd have constant wet races. So I do wonder how much of an issue scheduling is. Well, you didn't solve the problem
[01:13:10.320 -> 01:13:15.040] with just wild speculation, so I don't know how well you'll fit in. I think if you want to come
[01:13:15.040 -> 01:13:20.400] back on Missed Apex more, an unearned arrogance during problem solving, you might need to employ
[01:13:20.400 -> 01:13:26.200] a little bit more of that. Just assume that your very simple solution will solve everything without looking at nuance.
[01:13:26.200 -> 01:13:30.640] I'll just... well, if you throw enough at the wall, eventually some of it's going to
[01:13:30.640 -> 01:13:39.000] stick, isn't it? So, yeah, I think this is why a lot of these armchair fans don't get
[01:13:39.000 -> 01:13:40.000] hired for anything.
[01:13:40.000 -> 01:13:45.760] No, that's true. But I'll tell you what, your content over on your YouTube channel is very
[01:13:45.760 -> 01:13:50.800] slickly produced. You clearly put a lot of work into it and you research, which is basically
[01:13:50.800 -> 01:13:55.600] cheating. So can you tell us, why should people go over to your channel? What's up there at
[01:13:55.600 -> 01:13:56.600] the moment?
[01:13:56.600 -> 01:14:05.580] I did, I think, recently on Pitlane Speed Limits, how they came about, because of, well, spoiler alert, because of Mimola 94.
[01:14:06.960 -> 01:14:09.080] Did a piece on the Lotus 49,
[01:14:09.080 -> 01:14:13.020] which is a little bit technical.
[01:14:13.020 -> 01:14:18.020] I think if you like not being shouted at for 12 minutes
[01:14:18.120 -> 01:14:20.200] and you just prefer a chilled environment,
[01:14:20.200 -> 01:14:23.800] it is just like, you just want it presented
[01:14:23.800 -> 01:14:26.560] as it happened with no sugar coating or anything
[01:14:26.560 -> 01:14:30.560] like that. And maybe you'd be into that. If you're not into that, that's fine. I don't really mind.
[01:14:32.320 -> 01:14:37.120] There's going to be people that will watch some of the biggest YouTubers on the planet and be
[01:14:37.120 -> 01:14:40.960] like, no, not for me. Right. That's cool. Right. Maybe I will do something that you will enjoy
[01:14:40.960 -> 01:14:44.640] later on down the line. But that's pretty much the basis of the whole channel. It's like,
[01:14:44.640 -> 01:14:48.160] you're right. Here's a thing if you like it, fair enough. And you're right, it is a
[01:14:48.160 -> 01:14:52.720] relaxing watch and this has been a very relaxing and informative chat. Aiden, thanks very much for
[01:14:52.720 -> 01:14:56.960] dropping into the shed. No problem. And if you want to find more of Aiden's work, check out the
[01:14:56.960 -> 01:15:01.520] show notes in the link below. We'll head back to our broom cupboard.
[01:15:02.000 -> 01:15:15.280] back to our broom cupboard. Thanks guys. It appears there's no easy solution to this problem, if you'll pardon the pun.
[01:15:15.280 -> 01:15:19.040] All we can do when it's wet is be patient and pack a brolly.
[01:15:19.040 -> 01:15:22.960] Well that's all for today's show. Thanks for spending some time with us. We'll be back
[01:15:22.960 -> 01:15:26.000] next week with some more great off-season content.
[01:15:26.000 -> 01:15:31.000] Until then, as Spanners says, work hard, be kind and have fun.
[01:15:31.000 -> 01:15:47.000] This was Myst Apex Podcast. ♪♪
[01:15:47.000 -> 01:15:54.000] ♪♪
[01:15:54.000 -> 01:15:59.000] ♪♪
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