Podcast: Missed Apex
Published Date:
Sun, 15 Jan 2023 22:32:58 GMT
Duration:
1:33:54
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Spanners and Trumpets are joined by Kyle ‘Edgy’ Power and TikTok F1 star Antonia Rankin as they generate realistic renders for upcoming car launches. From Red Bull’s realism to Vowles’ new voyage, from Perez’ punchiness to things to leave in ‘22, no roll centre height goes uncalculated in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast.
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Spanners Ready Spanners���� (@SpannersReady)
spanners@missedapex.net
Matt Trumpets mattpt55 (@mattpt55)
Matt Trumpets (@mattpt55@mastodon.social)
Kyle Power Kyle Power (@KylePowerF1) / Twitter
Antonia Rankin Antonia (@f1antonia) TikTok | Watch Antonia's Newest TikTok Videos
Antonia Rankin (@antoniajrankin) / Twitter
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**Summary of the Missed Apex Podcast Episode Transcript**
**Launch Dates and Liveries:**
- Formula One teams are gearing up for the 2023 season, with car launches scheduled throughout January and February.
- Honda will have an earth livery for their new car, while BAR will run two different liveries for each driver.
- Sauber will be launched by the Spice Girls, McLaren by the Sugar Babes, and Alonso will do the Aston Martin car launch in a sleeveless leather waistcoat.
- Car launches have become more focused on livery reveals rather than showcasing the actual cars due to advancements in computer technology.
**Team Appointments:**
- Williams has appointed James Vowles, the former Mercedes strategist, as their new team principal.
- Vowles' move from Mercedes to Williams has surprised many in the F1 world.
- Vowles' experience as a strategist and his knowledge of the inner workings of a top team could be valuable for Williams.
- However, there are concerns about whether Vowles can turn around Williams' fortunes, given the team's long-standing struggles.
- Vowles' appointment could be part of a long-term strategy by Mercedes to develop him as a potential future team principal.
**Culture and Leadership:**
- Williams has faced challenges in recent years, including financial issues and a lack of clear leadership.
- Vowles' focus on culture and people could be key to improving Williams' performance.
- Mercedes is known for its positive and supportive work environment, which Vowles may bring to Williams.
- However, changing the culture of a team can be difficult, especially when there is resistance from within the organization.
**McLaren's Turnaround:**
- Zac Brown has been credited with turning around McLaren's fortunes after taking over as CEO in 2018.
- Brown made significant changes to the team's leadership and culture, and has overseen a return to competitiveness.
- Williams could learn from McLaren's example and focus on creating a positive and productive work environment.
**Overall Message:**
- The upcoming Formula One season promises excitement and intrigue, with new car designs and team appointments.
- Williams' appointment of James Vowles as team principal is a significant move that could have a major impact on the team's future.
- Changing the culture and leadership of a team can be challenging, but it can also be essential for success. Sure, here is a summary of the podcast episode transcript:
# **Missed Apex Podcast Episode Summary:**
**Main Discussion Points:**
- **Realistic Renders for Upcoming Car Launches:**
- Spanners, Kyle, and Antonia discuss creating realistic renders for upcoming car launches.
- They mention Red Bull's realism and Vowles' new voyage.
- **Perez's Punchiness:**
- Sergio Perez expresses his desire to fight for the World Championship this season.
- The hosts discuss whether this is a realistic goal given Max Verstappen's dominance and the team's focus on building a car that suits his driving style.
- **Things to Leave in 2022:**
- The hosts discuss aspects of Formula One that they would like to leave behind in 2022.
- They mention the porpoising issue, the cost cap controversies, and the lack of overtaking.
**Other Notable Segments:**
- **McLaren's Transformation:**
- The hosts praise McLaren's turnaround under Zak Brown's leadership.
- They highlight the team's improved culture and the potential for success in the future with Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri as drivers.
- **Driving Styles and Car Setup:**
- Kyle explains the differences between understeering and oversteering cars and how they affect driving styles.
- He discusses Max Verstappen's preference for an oversteering car and how it has influenced Red Bull's car development.
- **Virtual Missed Apex Patreon Pub Nights:**
- The hosts announce plans to host virtual pub nights for Patreon supporters.
- They explain the concept of these gatherings, which will allow fans to interact with the hosts and discuss Formula One in a casual setting.
- **Antonia Rankin's TikTok Success:**
- Antonia shares her experience as a TikTok Formula One content creator.
- She highlights the challenges and rewards of using the platform to engage with fans and promote the sport.
**Overall Message:**
The podcast provides an insightful and entertaining discussion on various topics related to Formula One, including car launches, driver aspirations, and the sport's future. The hosts offer expert analysis and engage in thought-provoking conversations, making the episode informative and enjoyable for Formula One enthusiasts. * **Things to Leave Behind in 2022:**
* Sausage curbs: These physical barriers are dangerous and cause damage to cars. There are other ways to dissuade drivers from cutting corners.
* Paul Ricard: The French Grand Prix needs a new venue. The current track is criticized for its lack of atmosphere and poor racing.
* Incorrect definition of pole position: The definition of pole position should be based on who starts the race in first place, not who qualifies fastest.
* **Other Things Discussed:**
* German Grand Prix: There is a desire to bring back the German Grand Prix, which has been off the calendar since 2020. Hockenheim and Nürburgring are potential venues.
* French Grand Prix: There is a need for a French Grand Prix, but Paul Ricard is not a popular venue. Magny-Cours and Circuit de Charade are potential alternatives.
* Other tracks: Istanbul Park, Kyalami, and Sepang are among the other tracks that drivers and fans would like to see return to the Formula One calendar.
* Pole position: The definition of pole position has been a topic of debate. Some argue that it should be based on who qualifies fastest, while others believe it should be based on who starts the race in first place. **Summary of the Missed Apex Podcast Episode:**
**Main Discussion: Reflections on the 2022 Formula One Season**
* The podcast begins with a discussion about the definition of pole position in Formula One.
* The hosts debate whether the driver who sets the fastest lap in qualifying should be credited with pole position, even if they start the race in a lower position due to a grid penalty.
* They also discuss the new sprint qualifying format and its impact on the traditional qualifying system.
* The hosts then move on to discuss some of the positive and negative aspects of the 2022 Formula One season.
* They praise the new cars for providing more exciting racing, but they also criticize the sport's increasing commercialization and the dominance of Red Bull Racing.
* The hosts conclude the discussion by looking ahead to the 2023 season and discussing some of the changes that they hope to see.
**Other Notable Segments:**
* The hosts discuss the upcoming launch of the new Formula One cars for the 2023 season.
* They also discuss the recent news that James Vowles will be leaving Mercedes to become the new team principal of Williams Racing.
* The hosts answer listener questions about various Formula One topics.
**Overall, this episode of the Missed Apex Podcast provides an informative and entertaining discussion of the 2022 Formula One season. The hosts offer their expert insights on the sport and engage in lively debates about some of the most controversial topics.** **Missed Apex Podcast Episode Summary: Realistic Car Renders, F1 News, and Engaging Discussions**
**Introduction:**
* The podcast episode features Spanners Ready, Matt Trumpets, Kyle Power, and Antonia Rankin.
* The panel discusses the importance of realistic car renders for upcoming car launches.
* They also share their thoughts on the latest Formula One news, including the arrival of James Vowles at Williams and Sergio Perez's recent comments.
**Realistic Car Renders:**
* The panel agrees that realistic car renders are essential for generating excitement and anticipation among fans.
* They discuss the various techniques and software used to create these renders.
* Antonia Rankin shares her experience using Blender to create realistic car renders.
**F1 News and Insights:**
* The panel discusses the recent news of James Vowles leaving Mercedes to become the new Team Principal at Williams.
* They analyze Vowles' strengths and weaknesses and speculate on his potential impact on Williams' performance.
* They also discuss Sergio Perez's recent comments about his relationship with Max Verstappen and the team's strategy.
**Engaging Discussions:**
* The panel engages in lively and informative discussions throughout the episode.
* They share their unique perspectives on various F1 topics, leading to insightful and thought-provoking conversations.
* The episode is characterized by a friendly and enthusiastic atmosphere, making it enjoyable for listeners.
**Overall Message:**
* The podcast episode provides a comprehensive overview of the latest F1 news and developments.
* The panel's expertise and passion for Formula One make the episode informative and engaging for listeners.
* The episode highlights the importance of realistic car renders and offers valuable insights into the strategies and techniques used to create them.
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[02:14.500 -> 02:17.900] You are listening to Missed Apex Podcast.
[02:17.900 -> 02:34.840] We live F1. Welcome to Missed Apex Podcast.
[02:34.840 -> 02:35.840] How you doing?
[02:35.840 -> 02:41.160] I'm your host Richard Ready, but my friends call me Spanners, so let's be friends.
[02:41.160 -> 02:44.800] And I can tell you friends that F1 is basically back.
[02:44.800 -> 02:46.560] The launch dates have been announced.
[02:46.560 -> 02:51.560] Honda have announced that they will have an earth livery for their new car.
[02:51.560 -> 02:54.720] Just the whole planet right there painted on the car.
[02:54.720 -> 03:00.080] BAR have said they'll be running two different liveries so each driver can have their own
[03:00.080 -> 03:01.080] one.
[03:01.080 -> 03:06.360] Sauber is being launched by the Sugar Babes to try and one-upmanship on
[03:06.360 -> 03:11.840] McLaren, who have the Spice Girls coming in to do their livery, and Alonso will be
[03:11.840 -> 03:15.720] doing the Aston Martin car launch in a sleeveless leather waistcoat for some
[03:15.720 -> 03:21.040] reason. But what is most apparent is that in the news items the teams are really
[03:21.040 -> 03:26.540] ramping up for 2023. Williams have finally got a new team boss in
[03:26.540 -> 03:30.420] place. Why rush these things? Why have him in from the beginning of the year?
[03:30.420 -> 03:35.300] And the FIA are looking at who should be the race director for the upcoming
[03:35.300 -> 03:40.280] season that starts in March. It's January. That seems a little tight for this kind
[03:40.280 -> 03:43.940] of decision but, you know, who am I? I'm not trained in logistics and project
[03:43.940 -> 03:50.320] management. Oh wait, I am! You should definitely know who's going to be the race director by now they have so many
[03:50.320 -> 03:56.800] things to learn they have to learn all the rules does the inside car own the apex is it or or any
[03:56.800 -> 04:03.440] lapped cars before a restart these things take time hi we're an independent podcast produced in
[04:03.440 -> 04:05.400] the podcasting shed with the kind permission
[04:05.400 -> 04:06.520] of our better halves.
[04:06.520 -> 04:10.640] We aim to bring you a race review before your Monday morning commute.
[04:10.640 -> 04:17.680] We might be wrong, but we're first.
[04:17.680 -> 04:21.480] I'm joined in the shed by Matt to romp it.
[04:21.480 -> 04:22.880] How's it going, Matt?
[04:22.880 -> 04:26.000] 28 sharpened D's till testing, my friend.
[04:26.000 -> 04:29.000] Oh, we can do it in sleeps, because people really love that.
[04:29.000 -> 04:34.000] I'd have to add weekends to that, so give me a minute and a pencil and paper, I'll let you know.
[04:34.000 -> 04:39.000] When is testing? We'll do the full launch line-up in a little while, but when is testing?
[04:39.000 -> 04:47.120] How long have we got to go until F1 cars are on track? February 23rd starts the only test of this
[04:47.120 -> 04:54.080] season and it's only three days long so 23rd, 24th, 25th and then bang onto the track in anger.
[04:54.080 -> 04:59.040] Okay well let's bang into the engineering world with Kyle Edgey-Powell. How's it going Kyle?
[04:59.920 -> 05:05.840] Very well. Sim racing highs and lows are not exclusive to Formula One World Champions.
[05:06.400 -> 05:12.560] Oh my goodness, go and find Max Verstappen's reaction to the Le Mans 24-hour sim series,
[05:12.560 -> 05:19.200] which was hosted by rFactor, subject to a lot of disconnects. And he is not happy. He thinks that,
[05:19.200 -> 05:23.680] you know, maybe people shouldn't prepare for something, fight for something, spend all that
[05:23.680 -> 05:28.560] time and just have it taken away from them by outrageous incompetence.
[05:28.560 -> 05:29.800] I see what you did there.
[05:29.800 -> 05:30.800] No!
[05:30.800 -> 05:32.520] I was talking about sim racing, how dare you?
[05:32.520 -> 05:36.720] He does have a point, and mightily frustrating, and hopefully it comes back to the platform
[05:36.720 -> 05:37.720] that we favour.
[05:37.720 -> 05:38.720] iRacing!
[05:38.720 -> 05:43.720] And you can catch our iRacing Cup, in which you are the leader this season, and we had
[05:43.720 -> 05:45.880] a round four at Spa last
[05:45.880 -> 05:50.200] night, a really exciting broadcast. I watched it back as soon as they'd finished. And Steve
[05:50.200 -> 05:54.760] Aimee, our video producer, produced a great show with Chris Stevens and Chris Catmanturna
[05:54.760 -> 05:59.760] just absolutely bringing the broadcast to life. It was fantastic.
[05:59.760 -> 06:03.960] It was absolutely superb. It's always a great event. I lucked into a win that I didn't deserve
[06:03.960 -> 06:09.520] in the first race, then made a mistake and then got absolutely murdered for karma. So it was an evening of
[06:09.520 -> 06:14.240] highs and lows. Go and watch it to see if me, Matt and Kyle can put our money where our mouths are
[06:14.240 -> 06:19.280] when it comes to a little bit of sim racing. And we're also joined by TikTok sensation,
[06:19.280 -> 06:25.360] it's Antonia Rankin. How's it going, Antonia? Hi, yeah, very good. I'm rather ungraciously and very
[06:25.360 -> 06:31.040] impatiently awaiting the season to begin again. But your TikTok channel has not been waiting for
[06:31.040 -> 06:36.640] anything. I have to say, I do tend to only tune in when you're coming onto the show, but I scrolled
[06:36.640 -> 06:40.880] through your TikTok feed. It really made me laugh. There's a lot of good stuff in there and it's a
[06:40.880 -> 06:50.240] lot of fun. Oh, thank you. I do try. Good. And that's the best we can ask for. And we can try to pick apart the launch calendar,
[06:50.240 -> 06:55.360] Matt. Obviously, some astute people may have picked up on the fact that my intro was referring
[06:55.360 -> 07:02.480] to previous F1 launches. And I swear the F1 launches used to be much more of a thing,
[07:02.480 -> 07:06.160] whereas now they've become, I don't know, like, okay, here's our car launch,
[07:06.160 -> 07:09.440] we've done a drawing of what the car might look like.
[07:10.160 -> 07:15.200] Yeah, this is definitely an area where computers have not helped us, because what has happened
[07:15.200 -> 07:21.600] essentially is what we used to call car launches now essentially are just livery reveals with
[07:22.160 -> 07:27.680] this season's livery pasted onto last season's car. So if you want to know
[07:27.680 -> 07:34.880] what direction Red Bull is going, if you want to know will Mercedes stick with the zero pod concept,
[07:34.880 -> 07:38.240] you're certainly not going to find it out on a car launch. But if you're a journalist,
[07:38.240 -> 07:43.360] you might get some good free food. Okay, okay, right. Just if it's not too late with the Mercedes
[07:43.360 -> 07:45.440] car launch and the admins and designers
[07:45.440 -> 07:53.040] are listening, if you just do the last year's car, was it the W12? Was that last year's car?
[07:53.040 -> 07:54.080] 13, I think.
[07:54.080 -> 07:59.440] 13, yeah. If it turns out with just a re-liveried W13 with no side pods,
[07:59.440 -> 08:03.920] you are going to make us cry and there are going to be questions. So just be prepared,
[08:03.920 -> 08:07.320] that's all. If you've got side pods, show us them.
[08:07.320 -> 08:10.000] Show us the side pods Mercedes.
[08:10.000 -> 08:11.400] Kyle.
[08:11.400 -> 08:14.280] If I was Mercedes, I would troll the F1 world
[08:14.280 -> 08:18.960] and do my car launch, which is, as we've just mentioned,
[08:18.960 -> 08:21.080] which is actually a livery reveal.
[08:21.080 -> 08:23.840] I would turn up with a very bulky side pod.
[08:23.840 -> 08:27.400] Just make some funny, humorous side pods to troll the world.
[08:27.400 -> 08:29.840] And you know at the first day of testing, they're going to turn up without side pods
[08:29.840 -> 08:33.200] because I think all the indications so far that they've kind of said is they're staying
[08:33.200 -> 08:35.360] with this zero pod concept.
[08:35.360 -> 08:38.400] But for the launch, surely it would make sense if I was in that department just to whack
[08:38.400 -> 08:41.000] on the biggest side pods I could make.
[08:41.000 -> 08:46.000] Borrow a set from Aston's first car last season and just like paste them on.
[08:47.200 -> 08:50.560] Well, the thing is, though, they used to be like, obviously, these glamorous,
[08:50.560 -> 08:54.480] like the Spice Girls being launched, you'd have, you know, drivers sitting on the wheel
[08:54.480 -> 08:59.920] looking hunky and heroic. Whereas now you either have this livery launch or you have like a weird
[08:59.920 -> 09:09.800] thing that Aston Martin did a couple of years ago, which was Lawrence Stroll just talking to the camera. And if you've ever attended any kind of corporate annual, what do you
[09:09.800 -> 09:14.520] call it, like state of the nation type things, where the CEO who's really not a speaker gets
[09:14.520 -> 09:19.760] up and just puts everyone to sleep for three hours. And that is kind of, I think, the best
[09:19.760 -> 09:21.960] we can hope for in terms of substance nowadays.
[09:21.960 -> 09:27.920] I think it's really interesting that you mention that actually, because I think the livery reveals, I guess, as they are now,
[09:27.920 -> 09:34.160] kind of is evidence of the end of the gentleman racing era. As we're moving forwards into making
[09:34.160 -> 09:40.240] F1 more of a spectacle and having the cars, how they look being a big focal point and less about,
[09:40.240 -> 09:44.560] you know, these middle-class men going around every Sunday, you know, and it's becoming more
[09:44.560 -> 09:45.940] of a sport and more of a show.
[09:46.200 -> 09:53.060] Maybe that's why the livery reveals and the car reveals aren't what they used to be because there's so much less emphasis on those things now.
[09:53.160 -> 09:55.160] What, on the driver side of it?
[09:55.460 -> 09:57.460] I would say so, yeah. I think
[09:57.620 -> 10:03.100] especially in the last few years with the way that the sport's grown, there is so much focus on how the cars look and what the
[10:03.100 -> 10:08.640] livery is like and a lot less on the actual drivers themselves and more about them being athletes.
[10:08.640 -> 10:13.880] I don't know, Kyle, you see, with Drive to Survive, I think, and if you look at the state
[10:13.880 -> 10:19.760] of kind of F1 fandom, it does feel like there's still, or this is probably the most it's ever
[10:19.760 -> 10:26.800] been, F1 fans in camps. So, like, for example, like watching in the 90s, I can't really ever remember
[10:26.800 -> 10:31.840] there being a stand full of Verstappen fans or a stand full of Hamilton fans. It was like,
[10:31.840 -> 10:35.680] oh, we're all here to watch F1 and I slightly prefer Nigel Mansell because he's got a jolly
[10:35.680 -> 10:42.160] good moustache. Yeah, and this is one of my gripes that we could get onto a little bit later,
[10:42.160 -> 10:50.040] but I think Antonio's got quite a good point there. As in, especially now, um, with this sort of type of sort of tribalist fandom, and also
[10:50.040 -> 10:54.080] with the amount of information available to just casual fans now who are now getting quite
[10:54.080 -> 10:58.320] technical, that quite a lot of teams are probably quite scared of releasing any sort of technical
[10:58.320 -> 10:59.320] detail.
[10:59.320 -> 11:02.280] Cause it's going to be eager eyes from other teams, but also the fans now are just pulling
[11:02.280 -> 11:07.680] the cars apart sort of theoretically from everything they see. So I think the teams might be slightly conscious of that.
[11:08.320 -> 11:13.680] It's not just that. The teams now all have the tools to iterate much more rapidly,
[11:13.680 -> 11:19.360] whatever it is they do see. They can put it on a computer, test it, and have it printed out
[11:19.920 -> 11:24.240] for testing if they were to happen to get it in the pre-season. So in that sense,
[11:24.240 -> 11:27.000] technology is definitely working against us here.
[11:27.000 -> 11:30.640] Okay, well we can scroll down a little bit and see when these car launches are.
[11:30.640 -> 11:35.200] Then Williams February 6th, so that's the first one, and I think will be our first news
[11:35.200 -> 11:36.560] item as well.
[11:36.560 -> 11:43.020] Alfa Tauri February 11th, Aston Martin February 13th, McLaren February 13th, Ferrari completely
[11:43.020 -> 11:45.440] ruining Valentine's Day by going on February 14th, McLaren February 13th, Ferrari completely ruining Valentine's Day by going
[11:45.440 -> 11:51.440] on February 14th. Just that romance is going to end in heartbreak. Mercedes on the 15th,
[11:51.440 -> 11:56.960] Alpine on the 15th, and oh Red Bull have leapfrogged Williams then by going on the
[11:56.960 -> 12:01.040] 3rd. In New York Matt, are you going to go along to the Red Bull launch?
[12:02.080 -> 12:07.080] It's possible I might be there. Then again, it's possible I might not.
[12:07.080 -> 12:08.080] We'll see.
[12:08.080 -> 12:10.360] We'll see what Red Bull press office has to say.
[12:10.360 -> 12:11.360] Thanks so much for the invites.
[12:11.360 -> 12:16.480] Anyway, I think we did a great job there of hyping everyone up for what are bound to be
[12:16.480 -> 12:20.200] ultimately disappointing, I suppose, sponsors, Kyle.
[12:20.200 -> 12:22.280] Sponsors are interested in the launches.
[12:22.280 -> 12:24.600] Yeah, it's for the sponsors.
[12:24.600 -> 12:26.160] And as we probably know, as Stefano sort of likes to go about it, it's all about the money, Yeah, it's for the sponsors. And as, you know, as we probably know,
[12:26.160 -> 12:28.060] as Stefano sort of likes to go about it,
[12:28.060 -> 12:29.280] it's all about the money, isn't it really?
[12:29.280 -> 12:30.960] So it's all about getting the money through the door
[12:30.960 -> 12:32.720] and getting the sponsor and pleasing them.
[12:32.720 -> 12:34.440] But the funny thing about Red Bull is
[12:34.440 -> 12:36.040] they were the last car to show their,
[12:36.040 -> 12:38.720] the last car, the last team to show their car last year.
[12:38.720 -> 12:40.520] They were trying to keep their concept under wraps.
[12:40.520 -> 12:42.480] And now they're going to be the first one to reveal them.
[12:42.480 -> 12:48.080] So I think that tells us pretty much almost guaranteed that it's purely going to be a livery reveal. Or
[12:48.080 -> 12:50.920] that they're so confident in their concept that it's the best one that they've got nothing
[12:50.920 -> 12:53.960] to hide anymore so they might as well just show it first. But I highly doubt that.
[12:53.960 -> 12:59.200] I tell you where Red Bull always get an award though is for testing liveries. So go and
[12:59.200 -> 13:03.240] search on the internet for Red Bull testing liveries. My goodness, some of those testing
[13:03.240 -> 13:08.400] liveries are absolutely gorgeous. They came out with a camo testing livery, which I think Porsche
[13:08.400 -> 13:14.160] had done previously in Sports Car, but they came out with this kind of displacement pattern
[13:14.160 -> 13:19.240] material. So it's basically to stop you seeing the shapes. And then they came out with the
[13:19.240 -> 13:28.160] Urban Camo, which was so on point for computer games like like mag and Call of Duty and stuff like that at the time, but absolutely beautiful
[13:28.160 -> 13:34.960] And in fact, I know for a fact that has been copied for a missile. There is a missile out there that has the Red Bull
[13:35.920 -> 13:40.560] DME for more details, but yes, they're always gorgeous. They're always gorgeous those testing livery
[13:40.560 -> 13:45.120] So I'm hoping someone will come out in testing with something like that
[13:45.120 -> 13:56.440] to really catch our eye. All right, let's go on to some team appointments.
[13:56.440 -> 14:01.760] Just looking through old emails to check I'm allowed to say the colour of that missile.
[14:01.760 -> 14:06.720] Okay, let's move on. Who's going to lead with this? Williams gets a new
[14:06.720 -> 14:11.920] team boss. The world was absolutely shocked, I think, the F1 world a couple of days ago,
[14:11.920 -> 14:17.760] or was it yesterday, when Williams announced James Vowles, the Mercedes strategist, as the
[14:17.760 -> 14:23.520] new team principal. I don't think anyone saw that coming, or did it? Did anyone see that coming at
[14:23.520 -> 14:27.320] all? Shock from you, Antonia? you normally have your finger on the pulse.
[14:27.320 -> 14:33.800] Yeah, I mean, Vaus has been a very loyal servant per se of Mercedes and to see him make the
[14:33.800 -> 14:38.800] switch to Williams, it did seem very sudden and very out of nowhere. I mean, with Williams
[14:38.800 -> 14:43.720] having that kind of gap in their panel per se, yes, it needed to be filled, but you know,
[14:43.720 -> 14:45.200] an ex-head of strategy, it is a
[14:45.200 -> 14:49.200] logical step up to be a team principal, but no, I don't think anyone can say that they could have
[14:49.200 -> 14:53.840] predicted it. Now is that right? No, no, you've just said that as if like everyone should know,
[14:53.840 -> 14:58.560] so I was tempted to kind of go, oh yes of course, yes, that is very much a natural step. But is that
[14:58.560 -> 15:03.760] like the progression? Do you know, obviously there's a lot of money men that have entered into
[15:03.760 -> 15:05.600] Formula One to be team principals
[15:05.600 -> 15:11.760] and racers. So obviously I'm looking at Horner and Wolff there for those examples. Is there
[15:11.760 -> 15:14.800] a tradition of strategists then going on to run teams?
[15:14.800 -> 15:19.360] It's one of those positions where, especially as head strategist, you're used to the responsibility
[15:19.360 -> 15:25.300] but also as a strategist you're looking at 90% of the team's departments because you're considering
[15:25.300 -> 15:27.680] so many factors in your work.
[15:27.680 -> 15:32.440] So you need to have a very good knowledge of the team, the inner workings, and also
[15:32.440 -> 15:34.560] the connections between departments.
[15:34.560 -> 15:38.320] And that's something that came up with our chats with Mike Holfield, of course, you know,
[15:38.320 -> 15:42.600] ex-strategist at Mercedes-Benz and Haas, saying how he was very much consulting with all the
[15:42.600 -> 15:43.800] different departments.
[15:43.800 -> 15:49.840] So the things that were going on in his head and his ideas, could they actually be implemented
[15:49.840 -> 15:56.760] by the car, and are they within the capability of the driver? And if not, how should he adapt
[15:56.760 -> 15:57.760] them?
[15:57.760 -> 16:04.080] So Kyle, seems like a good fit. Twenty years with Mercedes, some of the initial reaction
[16:04.080 -> 16:05.920] was, oh no, here's Mercedes, they've lost
[16:05.920 -> 16:08.160] another senior mid-leader.
[16:08.160 -> 16:16.320] Yeah, I actually don't think it's like that at all. I think this could be a bit of a very
[16:16.320 -> 16:21.960] clever long-term strategy play by Mercedes. They're obviously very happy with James Vowles.
[16:21.960 -> 16:29.380] He's obviously wanting to grow and progress in his career. He's already the director of strategy, probably not much room above that apart from team principal.
[16:29.380 -> 16:31.200] There's no room for him at Mercedes.
[16:31.200 -> 16:36.800] And Mercedes might be thinking of long-term gain of, oh, we might need a replacement team
[16:36.800 -> 16:38.640] principal when Toto retires.
[16:38.640 -> 16:45.160] So wouldn't it be great to farm off one of our young young in inverted commas talents to go and cut their teeth in one of
[16:45.160 -> 16:51.280] our, um, in one of our, in one of our not B teams, but one of our close technical tied
[16:51.280 -> 16:53.320] teams got to be careful how we say this.
[16:53.320 -> 16:58.160] Championship winning F1 legendary team Williams, a B team.
[16:58.160 -> 16:59.160] You nearly did it Kyle.
[16:59.160 -> 17:02.000] I felt like you meant it.
[17:02.000 -> 17:05.840] But wouldn't it make sense for James to go there, cut his teeth as a team principal there,
[17:05.840 -> 17:10.080] and then when or if Toto retires, if he's not actually a robot, like, if he doesn't
[17:10.080 -> 17:13.940] hang around forever, then James Vowles, wouldn't it be good if he just, like, sort of walks
[17:13.940 -> 17:18.280] back into Mercedes as team principal, familiar ground, still with great relationships, but
[17:18.280 -> 17:22.280] now with, say, five years of experience of team principal under his belt?
[17:22.280 -> 17:27.340] Yeah, the only thing I was going to criticize about that is the Williams B-team comment,
[17:27.340 -> 17:31.800] because frankly, looking at McLaren, they'd be more like a C-team, if I'm being honest.
[17:31.800 -> 17:32.800] Wow!
[17:32.800 -> 17:38.620] Okay, so I slightly save Kyle there by tempering it down, and you just throw another couple
[17:38.620 -> 17:41.340] of chopped logs on the fire.
[17:41.340 -> 17:42.740] No one's going to argue with me.
[17:42.740 -> 17:46.480] I am interested to see someone whose main purview
[17:46.480 -> 17:53.040] is strategy running a Formula One team because if anyone can say, all right, what can we get this car
[17:53.040 -> 18:00.080] to do well and take maximum advantage of it, it should be a strategist. That said, I have some
[18:00.080 -> 18:05.340] very real concerns about anyone turning Williams around.
[18:05.340 -> 18:11.100] Williams has been being turned around since the mid-teens, as far as I can remember, and
[18:11.100 -> 18:16.380] no one has walked in that door yet and managed to get everybody pointed in the same direction.
[18:16.380 -> 18:20.700] Yeah, but is that because of the challenges, you know, they faced?
[18:20.700 -> 18:26.600] Like it felt like it was almost a managed rundown from the Frank Williams era where
[18:26.600 -> 18:30.560] it was clear the finances weren't going well.
[18:30.560 -> 18:35.080] We had these chats a couple of seasons back where, there was a few now, my goodness we've
[18:35.080 -> 18:39.560] been doing this too long, where Williams couldn't make the first couple of days of testing.
[18:39.560 -> 18:44.400] And it was clearly a finance issue, but they tried to dress it up as this, that or the
[18:44.400 -> 18:48.640] other when clearly there was a managed decline going on, and it's a little
[18:48.640 -> 18:53.000] unfair to expect anyone, especially Claire Williams or any of the replacements, to turn
[18:53.000 -> 18:54.000] that around.
[18:54.000 -> 19:00.800] Yeah, so I think that irrespective of the finance issues, and I'm going off some things
[19:00.800 -> 19:05.480] that actually Alex Alban has said in recent interviews, that and just
[19:05.480 -> 19:09.000] other things I have heard here and there, but here are two quotes.
[19:09.000 -> 19:10.000] I'm going to read you.
[19:10.000 -> 19:11.600] We've got to look in every area.
[19:11.600 -> 19:15.280] We can't just put the blame on one side of the team.
[19:15.280 -> 19:17.640] He said that in a recent interview.
[19:17.640 -> 19:21.800] And then he also said, there's a lot of different departments in the factory that we need to
[19:21.800 -> 19:25.720] get moving and into the right direction together. And
[19:25.720 -> 19:30.180] that's going to be the aim for the winter. And this is something that Al's talked about,
[19:30.180 -> 19:34.880] people and culture at Mercedes being most important. So I think he sees that perhaps
[19:34.880 -> 19:36.760] as his most important task.
[19:36.760 -> 19:42.440] Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I think what Albin says is really interesting, because
[19:42.440 -> 19:45.120] we can't expect a team principal to come in
[19:45.120 -> 19:47.240] and just flip the team around
[19:47.240 -> 19:51.600] based on purely leadership quality and setting priorities.
[19:51.600 -> 19:54.560] Whilst of course, that's a huge component of that.
[19:54.560 -> 19:56.280] If there just isn't the money there
[19:56.280 -> 19:58.840] or if maybe in the factory,
[19:58.840 -> 20:00.740] yeah, there are some logistical issues
[20:00.740 -> 20:02.960] where either people aren't working well together
[20:02.960 -> 20:05.360] or there's blips in the production line.
[20:05.360 -> 20:09.760] There is only so much a team principal can do to come in and dust their hands off and go,
[20:09.760 -> 20:14.720] right, come on, let's turn this team around. And we have put a lot on William's shoulders,
[20:14.720 -> 20:18.640] especially given the history of their team. I think as fans, we hold them to such a high
[20:18.640 -> 20:23.520] standard because we know that they can be good. We know how legendary they are in the sport and
[20:23.520 -> 20:31.440] we want them to do well because Williams are synonymous with Formula One. So we've been perhaps a little over optimistic
[20:31.440 -> 20:37.920] about the capabilities of team principals. However, I do say that, but I do think there
[20:37.920 -> 20:42.560] is a hundred percent the capability, especially with, you know, the drivers that are coming in,
[20:42.560 -> 20:46.560] Sargent, Albon's fantastic, you know, they've got a great driver line-up,
[20:46.560 -> 20:48.640] but there's just a few little things
[20:48.640 -> 20:50.000] that need sorting along the way,
[20:50.000 -> 20:52.600] aside from just strong leadership.
[20:52.600 -> 20:54.320] Oh, Antonia, I don't want to be ageist,
[20:54.320 -> 20:56.480] but there's so many middle-aged people out there right now
[20:56.480 -> 20:58.080] who are just quietly muttering,
[20:58.080 -> 20:59.920] no, you're over-optimistic,
[20:59.920 -> 21:02.280] because there's got to be a way back for Williams,
[21:02.280 -> 21:03.800] there's got to be.
[21:03.800 -> 21:06.320] But it just doesn't feel like that model
[21:06.320 -> 21:09.040] is kind of normal or usual in Formula One.
[21:09.040 -> 21:11.000] And you're right, you can't just expect a new person
[21:11.000 -> 21:13.200] to come in and fix everything
[21:13.200 -> 21:16.320] and go for the Ferrari, Darth Vader approach.
[21:16.320 -> 21:18.240] Step forward, Fred.
[21:18.240 -> 21:22.520] General, or should I say general, Kyle.
[21:22.520 -> 21:28.000] Yeah, like you don't want to do the Ferrari guillotine sort of management style, but yeah.
[21:28.000 -> 21:33.760] So off the back of that, I think this is what Joe Scappito was kind of criticized of.
[21:33.760 -> 21:35.560] I think he was quite divisive in the team.
[21:35.560 -> 21:40.360] I think there is an inherent, and I think Matt sort of touched on this.
[21:40.360 -> 21:49.200] I think there might be an inherent culture sort of issue at Williams and I think apparently Joe Scappito has come in and tried to either sack people or try and tell them that
[21:49.200 -> 21:53.520] you're going to do it my way and do it with leadership. And I think there's half of the
[21:53.520 -> 21:58.240] team want to sort of go with him and the other half are like, no, like who's this guy? We don't
[21:58.240 -> 22:04.080] think, and I think the team's a bit split inside. So this is maybe what Vowles means with his
[22:04.080 -> 22:06.160] comments of culture and people get everyone aside and moving forward. But this is maybe what Vowles means with his comments of culture and people get
[22:06.160 -> 22:11.000] everyone aside and moving forward. But this goes back a long way. In the Mark Webber book,
[22:11.000 -> 22:15.120] he even alludes to a bad culture within Williams. It's like a small family-run business and
[22:15.120 -> 22:19.680] people stuck in their ways not wanting to change. And I think Capito tried to solve
[22:19.680 -> 22:23.040] this and cause some waves in the business.
[22:23.040 -> 22:25.080] That's really interesting you say that
[22:25.080 -> 22:26.560] because that is such a good point.
[22:26.560 -> 22:28.800] Whilst Williams' fantastic history
[22:28.800 -> 22:30.200] is a huge strength of the team
[22:30.200 -> 22:32.900] and that's why it's been kept alive by fans
[22:32.900 -> 22:36.200] in the hope that they will be great as they used to be.
[22:36.200 -> 22:38.620] There might also be things going on behind the scenes
[22:38.620 -> 22:40.600] where workers are reluctant
[22:40.600 -> 22:43.800] to take on this whole new leadership style
[22:43.800 -> 22:46.360] where someone's coming in and changing everything.
[22:46.360 -> 22:49.920] Because, you know, with it being an ex-family business,
[22:49.920 -> 22:52.600] there will be people who are really passionate
[22:52.600 -> 22:53.440] about what they're doing
[22:53.440 -> 22:56.280] and about passionate in a certain way.
[22:56.280 -> 22:58.520] So I do think perhaps actually,
[22:58.520 -> 22:59.800] if people are coming in and saying,
[22:59.800 -> 23:02.080] right, I'm changing this, this, this, and this,
[23:02.080 -> 23:04.740] and that's my plan to make Williams great again,
[23:06.800 -> 23:07.600] people might push back on that. They should have hats.
[23:07.600 -> 23:09.400] Make Williams great again.
[23:09.400 -> 23:16.500] So from a Mercedes point of view, you might say, okay, well, that's, they're losing a good strategist.
[23:16.500 -> 23:18.000] You could see it as bad from that.
[23:18.000 -> 23:23.100] But from a purely Williams point of view, and you see this guy coming in, if you were a Williams fan,
[23:23.100 -> 23:30.400] and you're saying, what can he bring to the team? I think the one thing that I would want from Mercedes
[23:30.960 -> 23:37.760] is the niceness and the corporate kind of attitude that Mercedes seem to have.
[23:37.760 -> 23:41.280] And unless it's wrong, unless we've misinterpreted it from the outside,
[23:41.920 -> 23:51.640] please, my DMs are open. I never reveal my sources. So tell me if I'm right here. It does feel like a lovely engineering environment where
[23:51.640 -> 23:57.200] they have this stated no-blame culture, where they move forward once things have gone wrong.
[23:57.200 -> 24:02.400] It's very much a team process. Whenever you've heard interviews... Oh, they did a brilliant
[24:02.400 -> 24:07.640] one on Beyond the Grid with James Vowles and Andrew Chovlin,
[24:07.640 -> 24:08.520] and I can't remember who else,
[24:08.520 -> 24:12.480] but they just seemed like the nicest, calmest people.
[24:12.480 -> 24:14.120] And as a Williams fan,
[24:14.120 -> 24:16.480] I would hope that he's gonna bring some of that.
[24:16.480 -> 24:19.400] So come in, make the team more corporate,
[24:19.400 -> 24:20.840] bring in a bit of kind of,
[24:20.840 -> 24:23.280] I know people don't like the term political correctness,
[24:23.280 -> 24:28.080] but it was, what did Stuart Lee call it? Enforced politeness. So let's everybody be nice and
[24:28.080 -> 24:29.320] lovely or get out.
[24:29.320 -> 24:35.240] Yeah, well, I think he can bring it and perhaps coming from Mercedes, he's got enough of a
[24:35.240 -> 24:43.040] halo to get the team to buy in. But at the end of the day, if the team doesn't buy in,
[24:43.040 -> 24:47.340] he's stuck with his culture and he's gonna have to solve it the harder way.
[24:47.340 -> 24:49.460] Yeah, I will say on the culture thing,
[24:49.460 -> 24:51.680] I do often refrain from talking about
[24:51.680 -> 24:53.120] inside these teams' cultures,
[24:53.120 -> 24:54.000] because of course we don't know
[24:54.000 -> 24:55.440] what's going on behind closed doors.
[24:55.440 -> 24:57.760] It's so difficult to call it correctly.
[24:57.760 -> 24:59.400] Wildly speculate!
[25:00.480 -> 25:02.080] I will refrain. It's the off season.
[25:02.080 -> 25:08.720] However, yes, from the outside, I've often attributed Mercedes' success to just
[25:08.720 -> 25:14.400] being an incredibly well-oiled machine. But you know, with that being said, it is very easy to be
[25:14.400 -> 25:19.440] optimistic and positive when you've won title after title after title. And from William's
[25:19.440 -> 25:26.240] perspective, I'm sure it's very easy to also be very grumpy and ready for change if perhaps it's been a while
[25:26.240 -> 25:32.000] and you're itching for another title. Killer comment from Mark in the live Patreon chat,
[25:32.560 -> 25:36.880] James Vowles. We're going to make this into a race-winning team, the team members replying with
[25:36.880 -> 25:43.040] well that's not how Claire used to do things. Yes, I think that goes back to the whole not
[25:43.040 -> 25:45.920] being particularly willing maybe to accept
[25:45.920 -> 25:48.880] the new culture of let's get in and let's get this done.
[25:49.840 -> 25:50.340] But...
[25:51.120 -> 25:55.920] Well, the parallel I want to draw here, and I want to draw it because, and I'm admitting this,
[25:56.720 -> 26:03.920] I was actually wrong about something. Wait, what? It's true. I don't know if anyone remembers the
[26:03.920 -> 26:06.360] first season of Drive to Survive.
[26:06.360 -> 26:07.360] Yeah.
[26:07.360 -> 26:09.600] It's the one I watched from start to finish.
[26:09.600 -> 26:10.600] Yeah, me too.
[26:10.600 -> 26:13.240] But do you remember Zac Brown on that?
[26:13.240 -> 26:14.240] Yeah.
[26:14.240 -> 26:15.240] Yeah.
[26:15.240 -> 26:20.080] And I watched him and I thought, wow, this guy is just, he's whatever.
[26:20.080 -> 26:21.080] He's a talker.
[26:21.080 -> 26:22.080] He's not a doer.
[26:22.080 -> 26:23.320] I have no hope for McLaren.
[26:23.320 -> 26:24.440] And you know what?
[26:24.440 -> 26:31.080] I was completely wrong because that was an organization. No, that's what I thought, based on his presence
[26:31.080 -> 26:37.560] and drive to survive. But he took an organization that was in utter disarray, organizationally
[26:37.560 -> 26:42.760] and culturally, after a massive ownership battle. He absolutely got rid of the correct
[26:42.760 -> 26:45.200] people, kept the correct people, and turned
[26:45.200 -> 26:51.040] that team around. And this, to me, is what Williams has been missing since, I don't know,
[26:51.040 -> 26:52.880] 2014, 2015 or so.
[26:52.880 -> 26:59.520] That, well, okay. Okay, so you're saying he turned that team around. Yes, they'd come
[26:59.520 -> 27:05.760] off the back of the, it was after the Honda debacles and all the GP2 engines and stuff.
[27:06.160 -> 27:07.400] I know what, it's McLaren.
[27:07.720 -> 27:09.840] It's again, a championship winning team.
[27:10.080 -> 27:14.480] He's turned them around to not really being anywhere close to the top three.
[27:14.480 -> 27:15.760] Is that a turnaround, Kyle?
[27:16.480 -> 27:19.400] I think not in terms of performance, but in terms of how the team is
[27:19.400 -> 27:20.920] perceived and how they come across.
[27:20.920 -> 27:25.520] So McLaren were in particularly in the Ron era, you know, did you
[27:25.520 -> 27:32.120] think gray peas, John Major, normal major, the spitting image sketch, just very, very
[27:32.120 -> 27:35.840] boring, very stuffy, very, very corporate. And now they've gone back to the orange. They
[27:35.840 -> 27:40.480] look a bit more human, a bit more approachable, more of a fun, happy, go loving sort of team.
[27:40.480 -> 27:43.720] So I think that's what I mean, which turned the culture around maybe in McLaren, because
[27:43.720 -> 27:48.320] remember there was, what was his name? The excellent Lotus Renault guy who went there
[27:48.320 -> 27:53.040] and then, and then basically had to fall on his sword and think, yeah, yeah. Eric Boulier,
[27:53.040 -> 27:57.360] because Alonso basically said he needs to be sacked and he ended up walking and stuff.
[27:57.360 -> 28:01.280] So it was a terrible environment in that team. And then Zach Brown's come in and now the team
[28:01.280 -> 28:09.360] looks quite hunky-dory. So the results haven't come yet, maybe they're a couple of years away after the culture change, but it's certainly changed.
[28:10.400 -> 28:16.320] McLaren now to me look like a fun, nice team rather than the grey, cleaning the gravel on
[28:16.320 -> 28:21.200] your driveway type Ron Dennis team that they were before. Yeah, I will say actually from most
[28:21.200 -> 28:30.320] perspective, McLaren are looking to be very strong, especially for next season with Piastri coming in to marry up with now very experienced and very
[28:30.320 -> 28:36.400] promising Lando Norris. But from all angles, they're a very, very strong team in F1 generally,
[28:36.400 -> 28:41.120] I think in terms of their presence in the sport with the history, that their driver
[28:41.120 -> 28:50.760] lineup, good team principle. From a marketing perspective, they've got two young drivers who are very easy to support, very likeable, and I do think that they are in
[28:51.040 -> 28:56.800] probably the best position they've been in a long time to really, really pursue a world championship.
[28:56.800 -> 29:01.000] Whoa, whoa, I thought you said to like to move on. World championship? When?
[29:01.640 -> 29:03.280] When, Antonia?
[29:03.280 -> 29:08.400] Well, it's not as easy as just Piastri coming in and all of a sudden everything's sunshine
[29:08.400 -> 29:13.360] and rainbows. I wouldn't say much. I think I will say I'd be very surprised not to see
[29:13.360 -> 29:18.640] them high up in the in the championship standings this year. Please, please don't jinx that
[29:18.640 -> 29:27.160] touchwood. But I would say by 2025, if McLaren aren't very, very much up there fighting for P1 in both
[29:27.160 -> 29:30.440] championships, then they must have gone wrong somewhere.
[29:30.440 -> 29:37.840] Yeah, so I'm just going to lead with, for a team that is no longer a works team, that
[29:37.840 -> 29:40.360] is a very, very, very big ask.
[29:40.360 -> 29:45.160] But I will pose this hypothetical to you with regards to Brown
[29:49.600 -> 29:50.660] being the architect if not the actual builder of the team
[29:52.440 -> 29:58.500] imagine if Ricardo Simply doubled his point score last year not even scored roughly as much as Lando did like at Alpine
[29:58.500 -> 30:02.000] We had Alonso and all guns in in similar boats points wise
[30:02.580 -> 30:07.460] They would have crushed Alpine and they would have been fairly close to Mercedes
[30:07.460 -> 30:09.160] across the whole of the season.
[30:09.160 -> 30:10.880] It's not that they can't build a car,
[30:10.880 -> 30:13.240] it's that they built a car that only one of their drivers
[30:13.240 -> 30:14.660] could drive last season.
[30:14.660 -> 30:16.820] And I'm really curious to see
[30:16.820 -> 30:20.600] if either they get a second driver in who can drive that car
[30:20.600 -> 30:22.160] or if they turn the car around
[30:22.160 -> 30:25.320] so that both of them can make good use of it.
[30:25.320 -> 30:29.440] Surely though that must just be a case of lesson learned though for McLaren. I mean
[30:29.440 -> 30:32.840] of course every team does it to a certain extent, you tune the car in one direction
[30:32.840 -> 30:37.000] more than another, but I do think surely they won't make that same mistake again. Surely
[30:37.000 -> 30:40.520] they'll come into the next season with Piastri and Lando and go right, let's make a car
[30:40.520 -> 30:46.800] that is drivable for both drivers. Because of course all Formula One teams want to
[30:46.800 -> 30:53.360] develop a car that both drivers will be able to drive. Which brings us to our next item.
[30:55.600 -> 31:08.640] Big dirty news. That was quite good that. Come on, give me some props. Give me some sugar panel! That was a decent segue. Okay, so Perez says he can fight for
[31:08.640 -> 31:13.840] the World Championship this season. That is what he is looking for. Save your derision
[31:13.840 -> 31:19.120] till the end, Kyle. I haven't finished the intro segment of it yet. Okay, so he says
[31:19.120 -> 31:28.060] that and most people, including me as a Sergio Perez fan, are listening to that and going, no, probably not.
[31:28.060 -> 31:30.400] Because you're talking about being up against
[31:30.400 -> 31:33.280] Max Verstappen, who is in his ascendancy,
[31:33.280 -> 31:35.340] he is having a moment.
[31:35.340 -> 31:37.580] You know when they talk about actors having,
[31:37.580 -> 31:39.720] oh, they're having a moment, they're in everything.
[31:39.720 -> 31:41.380] Tom Holland's in everything.
[31:41.380 -> 31:43.920] Max Verstappen's having his moment right now.
[31:43.920 -> 31:46.240] He's years of karting in single
[31:46.240 -> 31:52.000] seaters and... or was it one year in single seaters? And then years of just knocking every
[31:52.000 -> 31:57.920] bit of carbon fibre off every other car whilst in a Toro Rosso has led to this moment where
[31:57.920 -> 32:02.440] he is a dominant force in Formula 1. And Perez just casually goes, yeah I think I'm going
[32:02.440 -> 32:05.440] to push for the title this year. That sounds
[32:13.440 -> 32:17.840] massively deluded. So either Perez thinks that he just needs to find that something and then he's going to get a run on Verstappen and the team are going to favour him, or he knows something
[32:17.840 -> 32:23.360] political in the background where he knows that, I don't know, Red Bull are a little annoyed at
[32:23.360 -> 32:28.680] Verstappen and they're going to gently kind of vettel him out, a la Ferrari with Leclerc.
[32:28.680 -> 32:33.920] But on the face of it, Kyle, this just seems like an unrealistic thing for Paris to say
[32:33.920 -> 32:39.680] when that Red Bull is so built to Max Verstappen and the whole team is Max Verstappen.
[32:39.680 -> 32:44.440] Well, yeah, and actually the whole team is developed around Max Verstappen.
[32:44.440 -> 32:50.400] And yeah, you're quite right in saying, yes, I, you know, I think the only way realistically that you could,
[32:50.400 -> 32:55.600] you know, take Paris's comments at face value and be actually serious is if he's got some serious
[32:55.600 -> 32:59.680] dirt to dish on one of them in the team, you know, he's discovered how McMarco's never nude
[32:59.680 -> 33:07.600] and wears cutoff jeans, shorts, and he's going to release it to like the public or something.
[33:07.600 -> 33:10.120] I think that is the only way that you can actually take that comment seriously.
[33:10.120 -> 33:14.920] Everyone go and watch Arrested Development to get that reference. Matt first, Matt come
[33:14.920 -> 33:16.520] in and then Antonio, please.
[33:16.520 -> 33:21.440] Yeah, once I catch my breath from that, oh my goodness. No, I was thinking it's like
[33:21.440 -> 33:24.920] the old World War II movies where you just hit the pilot in the head with the wrench
[33:24.920 -> 33:25.700] and climb into the car for him,
[33:25.800 -> 33:29.040] is the only way Verstappen will lose
[33:29.140 -> 33:30.840] a world championship to Perez.
[33:30.940 -> 33:34.280] Because fundamentally, and we saw it last season,
[33:34.380 -> 33:38.980] Red Bull is developing a car that Max can drive fast.
[33:39.280 -> 33:42.680] And Perez, for all of his talent and skill,
[33:42.780 -> 33:47.120] cannot drive that kind of a car as fast as Max can.
[33:47.120 -> 33:50.640] And the only reason we're even having this discussion
[33:50.640 -> 33:52.760] is because at the start of last season,
[33:52.760 -> 33:55.000] they actually had a car Perez was faster in.
[33:55.000 -> 33:56.760] And he looked decent.
[33:56.760 -> 33:59.260] I'm not saying he looked better than Verstappen necessarily,
[33:59.260 -> 34:01.800] but you could see a probably truer reflection
[34:01.800 -> 34:03.280] of the gap between those two drivers
[34:03.280 -> 34:05.040] when that car was understeering.
[34:05.040 -> 34:08.800] They, that isn't public knowledge, it's not something we're guessing, they made the car
[34:08.800 -> 34:13.320] less understeery to suit Verstappen and that performance went away.
[34:13.320 -> 34:17.840] There's so many aspects of this that I could unpack as to why I don't think Perez is on
[34:17.840 -> 34:24.200] track for a title. And it's so unfortunate, but I really do strongly believe this. Namely,
[34:24.200 -> 34:25.960] because they are such different drivers, changing
[34:25.960 -> 34:31.320] the car to one negatively impacts the other. So I would very much struggle to understand
[34:31.320 -> 34:35.880] why they would move away from tailoring the car towards Max in favor of Perez.
[34:35.880 -> 34:36.880] I see no reason.
[34:36.880 -> 34:39.680] Well, he's a trial and tested world champion.
[34:39.680 -> 34:40.680] Yes.
[34:40.680 -> 34:47.200] And he's immensely fast, immensely talented. And I really don't mean to say that to negate how good Checo is.
[34:47.200 -> 34:55.800] However, it's counterproductive to turn everything around in, as has been said, a team that is very much built around Verstappen,
[34:55.800 -> 35:00.200] to suddenly backtrack and go, oh, actually, we're going to prioritise Perez now.
[35:00.200 -> 35:09.000] You could understand it with Vettel because he'd failed to win a couple of titles when they really did have a shot in 2017 and 2018.
[35:09.000 -> 35:15.000] He failed and then in 2019, they used not the correct amount of fuel at all the correct times.
[35:15.000 -> 35:18.000] So you could see why they might think, oh, there's a change needed.
[35:18.000 -> 35:22.000] Why on earth would you change what isn't broken at Red Bull?
[35:22.000 -> 35:25.760] Unless, as Matt says, or as Kyle said, you know, there's
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[36:28.900 -> 36:38.380] Yeah, well, the thing that I love about this is the only reason we're having this discussion,
[36:38.380 -> 36:45.120] and here's where I cleverly turn this into a complicated engineering chat, despite your best wishes,
[36:52.640 -> 36:58.480] is because the fundamental nature of the aerodynamic regulations and of the development of the Red Bull caused them to show up with this car that suited Perez. In order to really
[36:58.480 -> 37:01.760] explain it well, I'm going to ask Kyle, because he's an actual engineer.
[37:03.520 -> 37:05.760] A very bad one, say, but yeah.
[37:06.240 -> 37:11.040] So Verstappen did quite a good interview and come out and said this, that under
[37:11.040 -> 37:14.280] steery cars cannot be, cannot be fast.
[37:14.420 -> 37:18.760] And that is quite a, quite a statement, but a very true statement as well.
[37:18.760 -> 37:22.200] So Verstappen is a, you know, maybe a once in a generation talent
[37:22.400 -> 37:26.480] and he can deal with the car, you know, like a, like a Hamilton, like a Schumacher, like a Senna was,
[37:26.480 -> 37:29.200] and he can get the most potential out of a car.
[37:29.200 -> 37:31.720] So he needs the car and wants the car on the nose,
[37:31.720 -> 37:34.520] which then naturally makes the rear a bit more skittish.
[37:34.520 -> 37:35.640] So if you're coming into a corner,
[37:35.640 -> 37:38.920] if the car is what we call is on the nose and a bit pointy,
[37:38.920 -> 37:40.160] the front will get really well,
[37:40.160 -> 37:42.600] but it brings a bit more jeopardy into it.
[37:42.600 -> 37:43.840] Like the rear is a bit snappy.
[37:43.840 -> 37:50.320] You have to be comfortable with the rear moving around and the car wagging its tail, which is, now I can tell you, it's not a
[37:50.320 -> 37:56.400] very comfortable feeling in whatever you're driving when the rear is stepping out, going
[37:56.400 -> 38:01.920] into corners. Now Perez doesn't like this feeling clearly. His much more, his drive, natural driving
[38:01.920 -> 38:06.820] style where we can get performance is much more aligned to an understeery type car. So that's why at the start of the season, we
[38:06.820 -> 38:10.780] saw they were quite close in performance. Max could sort of match him and be a bit quicker,
[38:10.780 -> 38:15.380] but couldn't really go to the next step. Now when the car got on the nose, Perez then obviously
[38:15.380 -> 38:19.660] will naturally lose confidence in the car and can still keep his previous level of performance,
[38:19.660 -> 38:24.980] but can't take it any further. Whereas Max could then utilize that extra turning capability,
[38:24.980 -> 38:26.960] deal with the snappiness of the rear end,
[38:26.960 -> 38:28.680] and get the ultimate performance.
[38:28.680 -> 38:30.360] So naturally, the team will always
[38:30.360 -> 38:33.200] go to try to extract the ultimate performance,
[38:33.200 -> 38:36.640] even if it's perceived hurts one of the other drivers.
[38:36.640 -> 38:37.120] Right.
[38:37.120 -> 38:38.440] I see what you're saying there.
[38:38.440 -> 38:38.960] Right.
[38:38.960 -> 38:42.960] So it's not a case of let's favor one style over the other,
[38:42.960 -> 38:43.920] but we just go right.
[38:43.920 -> 38:47.620] If we go in one direction, we've got a driver who can probably get more.
[38:47.620 -> 38:51.940] If we go the other direction, they might well be even and fighting for, but our overall
[38:51.940 -> 38:53.480] potential won't quite be there.
[38:53.480 -> 38:57.560] Now I do want to come back to driving styles, but Antonia, what were you getting in with?
[38:57.560 -> 39:02.400] Yeah, well, it's just like Kyle said, Max is a once in a generation talent.
[39:02.400 -> 39:11.160] He's reliable, he can extract the absolute maximum from a car. And Red Bull know this. There's a reason that two drivers pushing for a world
[39:11.160 -> 39:15.840] championship at once in the same car at the same time really doesn't work. And there's
[39:15.840 -> 39:18.640] a reason that teams really prefer not to do that nowadays.
[39:18.640 -> 39:20.720] Yeah, it's not fun for them. It's fun for us.
[39:20.720 -> 39:25.760] Oh, it's great as fans. But you know, Perez knew when he was signing on to Red Bull that
[39:25.760 -> 39:30.960] he was Max Verstappen's support driver and he collects some money from some wins along the way,
[39:30.960 -> 39:35.520] gets some glory, a lot of fan appreciation for him. I have a lot of time of day for Perez,
[39:35.520 -> 39:40.080] he's a fantastic driver, but he is the second driver and for him to say,
[39:40.080 -> 39:46.720] I'm going to come up and be the world champion is not correct. But on the other hand, you know, what do we want him to say?
[39:46.720 -> 39:50.400] So, Sergio, what are your hopes for 2023?
[39:50.400 -> 39:54.400] And you go, well, to be honest, it's not looking good, lads.
[39:54.400 -> 39:57.280] I was in the board meetings, no one looked at me,
[39:57.280 -> 40:00.400] the engineering people when they were asking for requests for setup,
[40:00.400 -> 40:03.200] I put my hand up and I waited patiently.
[40:03.200 -> 40:06.080] No one came to me, not even once. So I'm just
[40:06.080 -> 40:10.120] going to phone it in for 23. I'm going to take the money and hope I can fluke the odd
[40:10.120 -> 40:15.040] Baku. I'm quite good at street tracks. So yeah. So on the one hand, Kyle, what do we
[40:15.040 -> 40:19.240] expect him to say? Yeah, exactly. This is the almost prescribed
[40:19.240 -> 40:24.480] delusion that racing drivers need to have. They're thinking that they're all the best,
[40:24.480 -> 40:27.240] you know, and he absolutely has to have this.
[40:27.240 -> 40:30.040] So you can't blame him for making a comment like this.
[40:30.040 -> 40:34.800] Now what was really interesting I found about Max's sort of comment about the understeering
[40:34.800 -> 40:38.480] cars cannot be fast and the problems they were having earlier in the year, was it was
[40:38.480 -> 40:41.300] all mainly caused by weight.
[40:41.300 -> 40:45.440] So the car was slightly overweight, which then, and also they're slightly underperforming
[40:45.440 -> 40:49.360] Pirelli front tires, which I think caught all the teams out. They'll like get some massive
[40:49.360 -> 40:53.920] change in the tires as well to like the low profile. And it was just naturally understeering.
[40:53.920 -> 40:57.340] So it was, so it was definitely really wanted more of a front end on it. And where it really
[40:57.340 -> 41:00.440] his fortune started to change is when they managed to get the ultimate weight of the
[41:00.440 -> 41:05.120] car down. So then they could start moving ballast around. So you know you
[41:05.120 -> 41:08.040] don't just get the car down to like minimum weight and be like right that's great we've
[41:08.040 -> 41:11.200] got minimum weight. You want to get the car under minimum weight so then you have weight
[41:11.200 -> 41:16.200] to play with and you can put that weight where you want to make the car behave the way you
[41:16.200 -> 41:20.120] want. So if it's understeery you put more weight on the front. If you want more traction
[41:20.120 -> 41:23.720] you put more weight on the rear. You put more weight on the front because as you're braking
[41:23.720 -> 41:29.280] the weight moves forward quicker and bites the front down into the tarmac giving you more grip.
[41:29.280 -> 41:33.200] Yeah it's giving more load on the front essentially you know downforce adds weight
[41:33.200 -> 41:36.560] essentially you're pushing down you're getting more load on the front obviously that you know
[41:36.560 -> 41:41.440] it's not a completely linear linear relationship but basically you can then move the ballast where
[41:41.440 -> 41:47.280] you need it to get a bit more rotation into the car. So as soon as they had the ability to do that, they could actually move the car
[41:47.280 -> 41:50.800] to Max's preference and get the ultimate performance out of it.
[41:50.800 -> 41:54.960] Now I've got some stupid questions to ask. I'll keep them to myself and let Matt say
[41:54.960 -> 41:58.080] things in the hope that they will be answered and save me from having to do that.
[41:59.040 -> 42:06.200] Yeah, well, it turns out in reading Max's comments, it was particularly the low-speed corners
[42:06.200 -> 42:07.280] where he suffered.
[42:07.280 -> 42:13.180] And I know that Kyle has mentioned that having the weight forward in braking, but all the
[42:13.180 -> 42:15.880] weight transfers to the front in braking.
[42:15.880 -> 42:22.000] The real issue, I think, for Max was that as you come off of the brakes, and as the
[42:22.000 -> 42:25.520] downforce comes off of the car, the weight begins to transfer
[42:25.520 -> 42:30.320] back to the rear of the car. And that's why the ballast you mentioned is so important,
[42:30.320 -> 42:35.840] because it keeps some weight on the nose. There are other ways to mitigate it – differentials,
[42:36.400 -> 42:41.520] your suspension settings, and so on and so forth – but fundamentally, you're fighting against this
[42:41.520 -> 42:45.120] rearward shift of the weight. and because they had no weight to play
[42:45.120 -> 42:50.160] with, they had in low-speed corners a very understeery car.
[42:50.160 -> 42:54.880] — That makes sense. I followed some of that. I did. Okay.
[42:54.880 -> 42:56.320] — I'll try again. I'll try again.
[42:56.320 -> 42:59.920] — Try again and confuse me. Okay, just pretend it's tech time,
[42:59.920 -> 43:01.840] okay, which I listen to religiously.
[43:01.840 -> 43:04.960] — I know you do, but only to help you fall asleep.
[43:04.960 -> 43:05.280] — All the way through. I do but only to help you fall asleep.
[43:05.280 -> 43:08.240] All the way through. I do sometimes listen to it to fall asleep.
[43:08.240 -> 43:12.480] Yeah, I wake up in the morning going, oh, I learned nothing. Okay, so I'll switch back
[43:12.480 -> 43:17.280] to Carl for a second for driving styles, because it's Billy Basics. I don't always,
[43:17.840 -> 43:22.320] I'm not always able to wrap my head around this, but if the car is understeery,
[43:22.320 -> 43:25.520] is basically is when you try to turn into the corner,
[43:25.520 -> 43:28.080] it has a, it wants to continue going on.
[43:28.080 -> 43:29.480] So it's less compliant.
[43:29.480 -> 43:31.560] So you have to kind of do the work earlier,
[43:31.560 -> 43:35.400] take the pace off earlier, and then like do the work
[43:35.400 -> 43:37.600] early into the apex and get on the power earlier,
[43:37.600 -> 43:38.640] perhaps as well.
[43:38.640 -> 43:40.520] Whereas the, if you've got oversteer,
[43:40.520 -> 43:42.940] you just kind of sling it in, plant the throttle,
[43:42.940 -> 43:44.880] and then just deal with the back end.
[43:44.880 -> 43:47.140] Is that too simple an explanation?
[43:47.140 -> 43:50.500] And do you believe Verstappen's statement
[43:50.500 -> 43:54.180] that it's impossible for the understeery car to be fast?
[43:54.180 -> 43:57.860] Because I know both you and I prefer an understeery setup.
[43:59.780 -> 44:02.900] Yeah, with all things in life, it's quite complicated.
[44:02.900 -> 44:03.740] It's not so simple.
[44:03.740 -> 44:04.560] So there are two schools of thought really.
[44:04.560 -> 44:05.400] Make it simple. There are two schools of thought really. Make it simple.
[44:05.400 -> 44:08.280] There are two schools of thought really
[44:08.280 -> 44:09.120] in dealing with understeering.
[44:09.120 -> 44:10.800] You can either be ultra aggressive
[44:10.800 -> 44:11.840] with the steering in points
[44:11.840 -> 44:13.400] and throw the car at the corner,
[44:13.400 -> 44:17.780] a la Alonso 2005, 2006, if it's understeering.
[44:17.780 -> 44:19.840] Or you're very, very gentle.
[44:19.840 -> 44:22.120] And as our very own sort of Bradley Philpott has said,
[44:22.120 -> 44:24.800] you know, imagine the steering wheel is attached
[44:24.800 -> 44:25.600] to a rubber band
[44:25.600 -> 44:27.840] to lock the front tires and gently coax it in
[44:27.840 -> 44:29.280] to keep the front tires connected.
[44:29.280 -> 44:32.040] Now, I think you and I have got very similar driving styles.
[44:32.040 -> 44:33.880] I think we're more in the latter,
[44:33.880 -> 44:36.360] that we're very gentle, tippy toe,
[44:36.360 -> 44:37.920] gentle, connect the car in,
[44:37.920 -> 44:40.040] and then you play with the throttle, you stab it.
[44:40.040 -> 44:42.280] I've said this on this podcast a while ago,
[44:42.280 -> 44:44.400] it's more like a seesaw, it's about weight transfer.
[44:44.400 -> 44:47.860] So if you blip the throttle, you then try to get some weight transfer on the front to
[44:47.860 -> 44:52.060] make the front tyres load up, then the car will rotate, then you can fire out.
[44:52.060 -> 44:56.180] And that's the only way I've been able to be slightly competitive in karting or sims,
[44:56.180 -> 44:58.380] and especially with karting, it's very understeery.
[44:58.380 -> 45:03.140] In our sims, we run understeer because it's harder to crash an understeery car.
[45:03.140 -> 45:04.980] But that's the only way I've been able to do it.
[45:04.980 -> 45:08.480] And then, so you get that kind of braking done early, you make sure you've got the pace,
[45:08.480 -> 45:13.920] and then it's all about trying to move the weight and rotate the car, getting it pointed in that
[45:13.920 -> 45:19.920] right direction. Whereas the oversteery guys in the oversteery cars will just be cranking
[45:19.920 -> 45:26.700] the steering on, probably braking later into the corner and being more aggressive on the more, more, more direct on the throttle.
[45:27.300 -> 45:31.340] Well, they're probably being, they're probably having actually less inputs than the
[45:31.340 -> 45:32.900] aggressive understeer sort of drive.
[45:32.900 -> 45:36.340] So they're probably being nice and sort of light and very direct and pointy, but they
[45:36.340 -> 45:40.620] have the ultra reactions and they're just purely comfortable with the rear sliding a
[45:40.620 -> 45:43.380] little bit and they, and they can just then drive through it and not overreact.
[45:43.380 -> 45:48.640] So what a lot of people watching at home don't really appreciate is they're not just sitting there like you are
[45:48.640 -> 45:53.680] in a game or a sim, they are under like 4 or 5 G, sort of lateral G, there is a lot of noise.
[45:53.680 -> 45:58.480] Driving a race car is inherently violent and scary and when you're in the middle of that thing,
[45:58.480 -> 46:03.840] confidence and natural reflexes is absolutely everything, even for a professional driver. So
[46:03.840 -> 46:06.680] if you're going in there and you're a professional driver and you do not like
[46:06.680 -> 46:10.160] that feeling of the rear starting to come around on you, you are naturally not going
[46:10.160 -> 46:11.080] to push the limits.
[46:11.440 -> 46:15.160] Whereas someone like Verstappen or a Hamilton will be very comfortable with the
[46:15.160 -> 46:16.240] car snapping on them.
[46:16.280 -> 46:19.600] And even though that's happening, they still will know, have the belief that they
[46:19.600 -> 46:21.520] can collect it up and they can get the lap time.
[46:21.520 -> 46:23.840] But that is where they get their performance.
[46:23.840 -> 46:27.480] And that's where they go the extra mile where some drivers can't.
[46:27.480 -> 46:31.200] Don't avoid my question. Is Verstappen right? Is it impossible for an understeering car
[46:31.200 -> 46:32.200] to be fast?
[46:32.200 -> 46:36.760] I don't think it's impossible. I think when he's saying fast, he means probably like ultimately
[46:36.760 -> 46:42.600] fast, you know, like actually get it to the absolute limit. I could break a lap record
[46:42.600 -> 46:45.240] with a car which is quite pointy and I could make the most of it,
[46:45.240 -> 46:49.480] but if my car's under steering, then it's not going to be spectacular. So I think,
[46:49.480 -> 46:53.000] you know, fast is relative, but I think largely he is correct in his statement.
[46:53.000 -> 46:58.680] Can I just say that he has a vested interest in that being true and convincing the people
[46:58.680 -> 47:04.760] who decide what setup direction to go in, to convince them to make that happen. So he
[47:04.760 -> 47:07.040] definitely would say that even if it wasn't true.
[47:08.160 -> 47:11.640] And also this is relative between tracks as well, because they will set up naturally
[47:11.640 -> 47:13.960] depending on the nature of the track.
[47:13.960 -> 47:18.240] So somewhere like Baku, they might want it ultimately a little bit more understeery
[47:18.440 -> 47:20.600] because it's all about rear tires and traction.
[47:20.600 -> 47:23.160] So you want to protect the rear tires and stuff like that.
[47:23.200 -> 47:28.480] But I think it's a general sweeping statement. I'd say that's true, what he said there.
[47:28.480 -> 47:34.240] And I would agree with you, because the engineers will sit down for the car and their ideal
[47:34.240 -> 47:40.400] setup and calculate a potential lap time. And that's not based on what either driver
[47:40.400 -> 47:46.320] likes, that's based on what the engineers think. And if you see the car moving as much as the Red
[47:46.320 -> 47:51.920] Bull did, it's not just moving because Max asked for it to be that way. It's moving because the
[47:51.920 -> 48:01.280] engineers have done all the math and convinced themselves that that is the fastest way for the
[48:01.280 -> 48:05.440] car to be. But it can also help to think of understeer oversteer as kind of a
[48:05.440 -> 48:13.120] gradient rather than as a fixed thing. And it's worth knowing that the more stable the car is on
[48:13.120 -> 48:17.840] entry to the corner, because drivers think about straight line braking, entry, mid-corner, and exit,
[48:18.480 -> 48:27.400] but as we get into corner entry, the more stable it is, the more understeer it's naturally going to have through the mid-corner section
[48:27.400 -> 48:32.080] where you're both off the throttle and the brakes, which drivers do tend to minimize
[48:32.080 -> 48:34.820] that, but does happen.
[48:34.820 -> 48:39.500] And I think that in the slow corners is where Max was really complaining, is it was just
[48:39.500 -> 48:45.320] taking ages because your front tires are dragging and it's just scrubbing speed off of the car
[48:45.320 -> 48:48.520] and that's why most drivers who were like a
[48:49.000 -> 48:53.540] Quick quick quick tend to prefer a pretty neutral balance or a slightly pointy one
[48:53.760 -> 48:59.200] Because they can get through that rotational bit and mid-corner quicker and get on to the throttle
[48:59.200 -> 48:59.720] in fact
[48:59.720 -> 49:05.100] I think now of an old top gear that I saw one time where BMW programmed a car to drive around
[49:05.100 -> 49:10.100] the Top Gear track, and it was loads slower than a driver.
[49:10.720 -> 49:13.680] And when they looked at the telemetry,
[49:13.680 -> 49:15.920] they said, oh, well, here's what's happening.
[49:15.920 -> 49:19.280] The driver is actually using the throttle
[49:19.280 -> 49:21.000] to steer through these corners
[49:21.000 -> 49:23.000] and gaining massive amounts of time,
[49:23.000 -> 49:29.800] but we've not taught our robot car to do that yet. And so I think this is really kind of the point that we're getting to, which
[49:29.800 -> 49:35.960] goes to Kyle's confidence with the car feeling unsettled. But if you can manage it, it's
[49:35.960 -> 49:36.960] always quicker.
[49:36.960 -> 49:37.960] Absolutely. And it's also...
[49:37.960 -> 49:42.080] Ah, I pressed the bumper and then Kyle started saying things.
[49:42.080 -> 49:43.080] Sorry, Michael.
[49:43.080 -> 49:45.280] I was making, in my defense, I was making all sorts of
[49:45.280 -> 49:51.360] visual cues. I was saying, let's move on now, but no, let's, this had better be the best analysis
[49:51.360 -> 49:57.120] and insight ever, Kyle. Here it comes. Everybody stand by for the best ever analysis that was
[49:57.120 -> 50:04.320] worthy of interrupting my bumper. I was just going to say with the great drivers, that's how,
[50:04.320 -> 50:05.600] you know, the great drivers will
[50:05.600 -> 50:08.760] adapt to whatever situation that they find themselves in.
[50:08.760 -> 50:13.240] Like with Alonso in 2005 and 2006, I don't think this was a conscious effort to have
[50:13.240 -> 50:15.320] a car and to drive so aggressively.
[50:15.320 -> 50:19.840] The car was just very understeery and he developed this throw the car at the corner style to
[50:19.840 -> 50:20.960] deal with it.
[50:20.960 -> 50:29.040] Same thing like earlier last year when the car did not suit Verstappen at all, when he wasn't happy with it. He was still, you know, Perez wasn't clearly faster or the standout better
[50:29.040 -> 50:34.000] driver. No, he was very close to it. So Verstappen would adapt but then when the car moved towards
[50:34.000 -> 50:37.680] Verstappen's sort of like more preference, Verstappen could go the extra level and Perez
[50:37.680 -> 50:45.180] couldn't quite keep up with him. So that's the difference between a great driver and a very good driver. Six out of ten would allow that
[50:45.180 -> 50:48.000] interruption again.
[50:50.000 -> 50:57.140] Hey! Do you like speaking to me and and to a lesser extent Matt? Well we've got
[50:57.140 -> 51:01.940] something that we think might be reasonably fun to do if you're a patron
[51:01.940 -> 51:06.340] of Mr Apex podcast. You you like my idea, Matt?
[51:06.340 -> 51:09.000] I actually really do like your idea.
[51:09.000 -> 51:10.160] I'm a fan of it.
[51:10.160 -> 51:12.000] Okay, we both like pubs,
[51:12.000 -> 51:14.640] not giving anything away about our lifestyles,
[51:14.640 -> 51:16.960] but we both like pubs and we both don't mind
[51:16.960 -> 51:18.880] transferring that to the online world
[51:18.880 -> 51:20.920] and drinking at home alone,
[51:20.920 -> 51:24.360] but with the excuse of having people in a virtual space.
[51:24.360 -> 51:29.960] Yes, and so this is our general plan. To offer up our, what, expertise?
[51:29.960 -> 51:30.960] Yeah, well no.
[51:30.960 -> 51:31.960] Alcoholism?
[51:31.960 -> 51:36.680] A company, I would have said. A company in the space of F1 fans. So it's not something
[51:36.680 -> 51:41.200] we're going to charge for, but I've taken inspiration from the live audiences with Joe,
[51:41.200 -> 51:45.000] where basically you have Joe there and people attend and take turns,
[51:45.000 -> 51:48.560] they put their hands up and they bring up a topic. So that the conversation of
[51:48.560 -> 51:53.960] the evening is led by the people that are involved and it is purely just based
[51:53.960 -> 51:57.360] on, you know, who comes in, who puts their hand up and who leads the
[51:57.360 -> 52:00.880] conversation. It's not content, it's sitting there having a chat. I mean it
[52:00.880 -> 52:04.760] could be a sneaky way to come up with content, if I'm honest with you, Matt.
[52:04.760 -> 52:08.720] It could be, although it reminds me a lot of the Ancient Greek Seminar, which actually,
[52:09.360 -> 52:14.400] not being an academic thing, turned out to be a drinking party and a conversational thing.
[52:14.400 -> 52:20.000] I have to know what that is. That is worth researching. So yes, we're adding to our
[52:20.000 -> 52:30.400] Patreon perks, basically, and it's something that's probably long overdue as well as our extra Patreon content. We are going to have these virtual Myst Apex Patreon pub nights and basically we'll go
[52:30.400 -> 52:36.000] down the tiers and we'll send invites out. It won't be a case of, you know, if you're on the
[52:36.000 -> 52:41.440] lowest tier you won't get in. I think we'll just we'll run as many of those evenings as we can
[52:41.440 -> 52:45.840] fill going down the tiers. So do sign up to be a patron patreon.com forward slash
[52:45.840 -> 52:51.280] missed apex see if any of those tiers are right for you but it's just an ongoing way for us to
[52:51.280 -> 52:56.640] try and and basically say thank you to the people who have supported us through patron
[52:57.440 -> 53:02.320] patreon because we would not be here without patron support. So whilst these aren't things
[53:02.320 -> 53:08.160] that you are kind of buying we look at the amount of support we get from Patreon and we go, we really want to
[53:08.160 -> 53:11.520] do more stuff. And when we thought about the the virtual pub night we thought
[53:11.520 -> 53:15.880] that was a no-brainer. So if you're a Patron, look out for an invite to a
[53:15.880 -> 53:23.520] Myst Apex virtual pub night coming to you soon.
[53:23.520 -> 53:27.720] Of course if you didn't live so far away, we could do real Miss Davex pub nights.
[53:27.720 -> 53:28.720] But whatever!
[53:28.720 -> 53:32.160] Whatever, Matt, that's your fault for living in the wrong country.
[53:32.160 -> 53:35.200] If I showed up there next week, you couldn't make it, my friend.
[53:35.200 -> 53:36.480] So I don't want to hear about it.
[53:36.480 -> 53:38.440] I will be in England nearly next week.
[53:38.440 -> 53:39.840] Close to that.
[53:39.840 -> 53:44.640] But speaking of the virtual world, we have with us somebody who does things on a medium
[53:44.640 -> 53:50.880] that we do not understand and cannot fathom. You are making quite a swing of that TikTok thing,
[53:50.880 -> 53:51.880] Ms Rankin.
[53:51.880 -> 53:58.000] Yes, I think I transcend middle-aged people's capacity to understand. But no, don't worry,
[53:58.000 -> 54:02.080] I make it accessible, it's fine, even for baby boomers like yourself.
[54:02.080 -> 54:06.200] Oh my god, that's so hurtful. I had more nice things lined up to say,
[54:06.200 -> 54:07.560] but now I don't want to say them.
[54:07.560 -> 54:08.880] Oh no, say them anyway.
[54:08.880 -> 54:09.720] Check my ego a bit.
[54:09.720 -> 54:12.400] So we do have a bit of kind of a swing,
[54:12.400 -> 54:15.900] a bias towards kind of the parent age listener
[54:15.900 -> 54:17.120] here at Missed Apex.
[54:17.120 -> 54:18.880] And there is a lot of skepticism.
[54:18.880 -> 54:19.700] You know, people go,
[54:19.700 -> 54:21.900] I don't care what some TikToker says.
[54:21.900 -> 54:23.760] They're not even a hundred years old.
[54:23.760 -> 54:26.100] We have sent Missed Apex listeners to your channel
[54:26.100 -> 54:27.620] and they have enjoyed it.
[54:27.620 -> 54:29.420] I have to say there is a lot of TikTok content
[54:29.420 -> 54:31.120] which is very surface level,
[54:31.120 -> 54:33.100] but you've somehow mixed the fun
[54:33.100 -> 54:35.820] and dynamic nature of TikTok
[54:35.820 -> 54:39.220] with some real good analysis and strategic analysis,
[54:39.220 -> 54:42.680] tech analysis, and just some genuinely funny, joyous stuff.
[54:42.680 -> 54:44.060] Well done.
[54:44.060 -> 54:45.240] Well, thank you very much.
[54:45.240 -> 54:46.880] Yeah, I have a lot of fun picking apart
[54:46.880 -> 54:47.960] the technical stuff,
[54:47.960 -> 54:51.160] but sometimes it's fun just to muck around a bit.
[54:51.160 -> 54:53.920] But there is a lot of gatekeeping with,
[54:53.920 -> 54:56.640] oh, just some TikToker, isn't there?
[54:56.640 -> 54:57.840] Oh, massively, yeah.
[54:57.840 -> 54:59.280] I think generally speaking,
[54:59.280 -> 55:01.840] I'm setting myself up for a lot of gatekeeping,
[55:01.840 -> 55:08.240] being young, blonde, a girl, and a TikToker. But no, I think in the
[55:08.240 -> 55:12.320] process of, I guess, in a way trying to prove myself, it's been really fun, you know, building
[55:12.320 -> 55:17.120] a community and meeting loads of people who... I see everyone kind of as like my little internet
[55:17.120 -> 55:22.560] friends that we just kind of nerd out about F1 a lot online. So it's quite nice. It's like a little
[55:22.560 -> 55:27.920] circle. I can relate to that because I never had anyone to talk to about Formula One. And just building
[55:27.920 -> 55:32.640] a community like this was mainly just to reach out in the first place to speak to people
[55:32.640 -> 55:37.280] who cared about Formula One and you're building that same thing. Obviously, you were part
[55:37.280 -> 55:48.880] of probably a first wave really of the big bulk of women content creators that suddenly just came alive in recent years.
[55:48.880 -> 55:53.520] And so you had to probably take a bit of a brunt of people going, what? A woman talking about
[55:53.520 -> 55:58.800] Formula One? What's all this? Oh, yeah. No, that's exactly what they sound like. You completely
[55:58.800 -> 56:02.560] nailed that. Wow. Yeah. Gosh, that's a bit suspicious that you're so good at that impression.
[56:03.680 -> 56:05.680] Yeah, no, 100%. There is a lot of that and there still is a lot suspicious that you're so good at that impression. Yeah, no, 100%.
[56:05.680 -> 56:09.900] There is a lot of that and there still is a lot of that. But thankfully, through making
[56:09.900 -> 56:14.160] more videos and building a platform and a community, those kind of things have become
[56:14.160 -> 56:16.480] a lot more peripheral now.
[56:16.480 -> 56:20.360] And the thing is, though, with your content, Antonia, there is no doubt you have Formula
[56:20.360 -> 56:25.440] One knowledge, but more importantly, that you love and live Formula One and motorsport.
[56:25.440 -> 56:29.360] Although you are, you're sneaking off into Formula E territory. I hope we're not going
[56:29.360 -> 56:33.840] to lose you to that. Oh, don't worry. I'll stay very loyal to Formula One. I was more intrigued
[56:33.840 -> 56:38.480] at the claims that it was like Mario Kart. I was just interested and I can gladly confirm that
[56:38.480 -> 56:42.960] whilst it has all of the charm of Mario Kart, it is a bit different. It is just a little bit
[56:42.960 -> 56:46.280] different. Now, the reason I'm bringing up your TikTok content
[56:46.280 -> 56:52.220] is because we're going to steal some of it. But do go and follow her by typing in into
[56:52.220 -> 56:58.880] your internet machine, TikTok forward slash F1 Antonia. Does that get you there? Or just
[56:58.880 -> 57:03.000] search for F1 Antonia TikTok and you'll see the content. One of the most recent ones was
[57:03.000 -> 57:10.400] things to leave behind in 2022 in F1. So I put out a tweet, we put it in our Slack group, we've got some
[57:10.400 -> 57:16.160] listener answers to that, but we'll start with the panel. Antonia Rankin, what should
[57:16.160 -> 57:18.560] we leave behind in 2022?
[57:18.560 -> 57:22.700] I'm going to launch straight into a topic that has caused some friction between panel
[57:22.700 -> 57:26.400] members before, and that's sausage curbs.
[57:26.400 -> 57:31.280] I absolutely cannot get behind them at all. They're dangerous, they cause damage to the
[57:31.280 -> 57:35.980] cars, there are other ways to dissuade drivers from cutting corners. That can firmly stay
[57:35.980 -> 57:41.160] in 2022. I do not want to see any more drivers being launched into the air, landing on top
[57:41.160 -> 57:45.220] of other cars, any of that. That's enough. No more sausage curbs for me in 2023.
[57:45.220 -> 57:48.640] Okay, but what are sausage curbs trying to achieve? They're trying to say, well, you
[57:48.640 -> 57:55.100] can't just go anywhere you want. So it's a physical barrier. I hate gravel traps because
[57:55.100 -> 58:01.020] they used to just rob us of half the grid unnecessarily. Sausage curbs. Okay, let's
[58:01.020 -> 58:05.920] say there wasn't a safety, like the launching. Is it just the launching that is the objection?
[58:05.920 -> 58:12.440] Mainly, yeah, it comes from a safety perspective. Whilst I see the merit in gravel traps because
[58:12.440 -> 58:15.980] I think they're kind of self-policing. A driver avoids them because they know how much of
[58:15.980 -> 58:20.300] a headache they are and they work as an excellent deterrent. But yeah, for me, it's the safety
[58:20.300 -> 58:24.080] perspective on the sausage curves. I just think there's safer ways to dissuade drivers
[58:24.080 -> 58:27.760] from cutting a chicane. Brick wall Kyle, brick wall. Or, oh my
[58:27.760 -> 58:31.520] goodness, get rid of chicanes completely then it won't be an issue. Jeez.
[58:31.520 -> 58:36.320] Chicanes are not necessarily bad, chicanes can be good. Chicanes be good.
[58:36.320 -> 58:41.360] I've got a little theory, I've got a little theory to get rid of sausage
[58:41.360 -> 58:45.160] curbs there. Put, is going to sound crazy, but
[58:45.160 -> 58:48.840] they've kind of already done it a little bit at play tracks like Paul Ricard,
[58:48.840 -> 58:52.280] which is why it looks like a magic eye.
[58:53.000 -> 58:57.640] High abrasive strips of almost like sandpaper and sort of several strips.
[58:57.640 -> 59:01.060] So when you do skip and you go over it, it doesn't destroy your car.
[59:01.060 -> 59:03.160] It doesn't flick up in the air, but it ruins your tires.
[59:03.440 -> 59:07.560] So you do get penalized a bit and then you'll probably take a lot of tire life out.
[59:07.560 -> 59:11.220] So super high abrasive tarmac, which will then ruin your tires.
[59:11.220 -> 59:13.480] So you get penalized, but you're not out of the race.
[59:13.480 -> 59:14.480] That's what I'd do.
[59:14.480 -> 59:19.040] Yeah, I think that's a good idea, actually, just lining the truck's edges with sandpaper
[59:19.040 -> 59:20.040] perhaps.
[59:20.040 -> 59:22.760] But no, that brings me back to another thing that was on my list that I would rather not
[59:22.760 -> 59:23.760] see in 2023.
[59:23.760 -> 59:25.600] Paul Ricard. I
[59:25.600 -> 59:31.120] apologize because I think it is so important for French fans to have a Grand Prix. I really do.
[59:31.120 -> 59:37.120] And I'm a huge advocate for a French Grand Prix, just not at Paul Ricard. For me, it's a great
[59:37.120 -> 59:43.040] testing track. It's a good place to have cars going round, but for me, not as a Formula One
[59:43.040 -> 59:50.320] Grand Prix. I'm aware that's probably controversial. No, because there is a big contingent of Formula One fans
[59:50.320 -> 59:54.480] who say get rid of Paul Ricard and I understand the sentiment. What I don't
[59:54.480 -> 59:59.320] understand is why Paul Ricard hasn't listened to some of the criticism and
[59:59.320 -> 01:00:04.080] the feedback and made an effort to fix it because you could line it
[01:00:04.080 -> 01:00:06.240] with street furniture, you could line it with street furniture, you could
[01:00:06.240 -> 01:00:10.960] line it with track furniture, you could you could just put in you could install some curbs, couldn't
[01:00:10.960 -> 01:00:15.520] you? You could install some proper looking curbs, you could put some foam there just to make it look
[01:00:15.520 -> 01:00:20.800] like a real corner. Matt, they could do things that would make it not a hated track. It is a
[01:00:20.800 -> 01:00:25.360] hated track, especially with the young people. Like Antonia, she's confused by
[01:00:25.360 -> 01:00:30.080] it. There's too many turns. I can't- can you put the racing on- line on so I can understand where
[01:00:30.080 -> 01:00:35.360] the track's going? Honestly, in the old days, they'd just stick some spectators out there
[01:00:35.360 -> 01:00:39.280] to help the drivers know where their turns are. Just put some people out on the corners. But yeah,
[01:00:39.280 -> 01:00:43.440] it does really struggle with that thing where the camera's on the car, you're looking at an
[01:00:43.440 -> 01:00:47.680] overtake, and then the car's turn, and you didn't even know that that was the end of the straight
[01:00:47.680 -> 01:00:48.680] because there was track ahead.
[01:00:48.680 -> 01:00:53.480] Yeah, no, the new alternative to sausage curbs is now race spectators. That's how we deal
[01:00:53.480 -> 01:00:57.320] with overcrowding at Grands Prix. I think that's a fantastic idea. Just get small children
[01:00:57.320 -> 01:00:58.720] to lay down on a chicane.
[01:00:58.720 -> 01:01:04.400] Okay, can we get the lawyers involved here for the edit?
[01:01:04.400 -> 01:01:08.400] Before I get sued or something, in all seriousness, Paul Ricard,
[01:01:08.400 -> 01:01:12.960] I admire what they tried to do. I just wish they would do something slightly different,
[01:01:12.960 -> 01:01:15.600] just to get some flavour into the track.
[01:01:16.400 -> 01:01:21.680] Yes, look, I don't think street furniture or track furniture to make it look like a
[01:01:21.680 -> 01:01:25.520] quote unquote real track would be impossible. I don't think
[01:01:25.520 -> 01:01:30.480] it's inherently a bad layout, Kyle. It's not like tight and twisty like Hungaro Ring. It's
[01:01:30.480 -> 01:01:36.920] not surrounded by walls and hedonism like Monaco. So why not? Why not just spice it
[01:01:36.920 -> 01:01:38.320] up a bit, make it look a bit pretty?
[01:01:38.320 -> 01:01:46.080] I'm actually one of the rare few fans of Paul Ricard out there. So I disagree with Antonio there. Like I'm,
[01:01:46.080 -> 01:01:50.160] I think if the only gripe about Paul Ricard is that it looks a bit stripy and doesn't
[01:01:50.160 -> 01:01:54.080] look very well, I think people are kind of missing the point. The track layout is actually
[01:01:54.080 -> 01:01:58.440] superb. If you've ever gone and played the F1 game or drive it, it's brilliant. It actually
[01:01:58.440 -> 01:02:05.400] yielded us a very good race last year. Um, and it's a classic race. So I don't really
[01:02:05.400 -> 01:02:07.440] mind too much about the aesthetic things. I'm not
[01:02:07.440 -> 01:02:10.440] watching a circuit for it to look pretty. I want the cars to
[01:02:10.440 -> 01:02:13.120] look good. So yeah, a bit more track furniture to get the
[01:02:13.120 -> 01:02:16.160] speed of the cars, but the actual layout is really, really,
[01:02:16.560 -> 01:02:21.560] really good. So I want it to stay maybe paint the line some
[01:02:21.560 -> 01:02:24.560] different colors if people are that worried about how pretty it
[01:02:24.560 -> 01:02:28.200] looks, but no, so I'm actually one of the rare Paul Ricard fans here.
[01:02:28.200 -> 01:02:32.120] I don't think that's a shallow point as like, because atmosphere is important, the view
[01:02:32.120 -> 01:02:37.400] experience is important. What if they had, you know, Wembley Stadium, but they just put
[01:02:37.400 -> 01:02:41.120] it in a Tesco's car park? You know, it wouldn't be, it'll be the same game, it will be the
[01:02:41.120 -> 01:02:49.360] same pitch, it'll be the same goals, but you would definitely lose something, wouldn't you? Sorry, Antonia. I will agree with Kyle. I don't want to
[01:02:49.360 -> 01:02:52.400] appear as an O.M. Oh, darn, he hates it. He wants to fight.
[01:02:52.400 -> 01:02:57.840] Okay, I will partially agree with Kyle. I will very slightly agree with Kyle, a minute degree.
[01:02:58.640 -> 01:03:06.320] I am not entirely fixed in the fact that I dislike Paul Ricard. I do genuinely think that productive
[01:03:06.320 -> 01:03:10.800] changes can be made. It's not like it's a track where you can't switch up the track profile.
[01:03:11.840 -> 01:03:15.760] Monaco, you can't do anything about that. It's just Monaco. Whereas Paul Ricard,
[01:03:15.760 -> 01:03:22.960] it could be so good. The issue is no steps have been taken, like you said, to take on board fans'
[01:03:22.960 -> 01:03:25.920] feedback because the concept is there and
[01:03:25.920 -> 01:03:30.480] I really think we do need French Grand Prix. I mean, I want a German Grand Prix as well.
[01:03:30.480 -> 01:03:31.840] Yes. That's a separate point though.
[01:03:31.840 -> 01:03:35.520] No, bring that up. And the thing is, the German tracks are great.
[01:03:36.480 -> 01:03:42.800] I love Hockenheim. Hockenheim 2019, 2018 even. The German Grand Prix are always giving what
[01:03:42.800 -> 01:03:44.480] they need to give. Bring them back.
[01:03:44.480 -> 01:03:48.720] Now we're chatting. Now we're chatting. Now we're chatting. Now, like, Nürburgring might have a bit,
[01:03:48.720 -> 01:03:54.080] is a bit Barcelona-y. So it's like, it's a little bit tight, maybe, for modern F1 cars.
[01:03:54.640 -> 01:03:55.920] Kyle, do you think a little bit?
[01:03:56.960 -> 01:04:01.520] There are, there aren't many overtaking opportunities, but when it has gone, I think
[01:04:01.520 -> 01:04:05.500] 2020 we were there previous time, it does throw up pretty decent races.
[01:04:05.500 -> 01:04:09.500] But there is one big overtaking opportunity into Turn 1 and then into the chicane.
[01:04:09.500 -> 01:04:11.500] Apart from that, it's pretty processional.
[01:04:11.500 -> 01:04:13.500] Get rid of the chicane and we're sort of in the win.
[01:04:13.500 -> 01:04:16.000] Or a clip to the other chicane, the high-speed chicane.
[01:04:16.000 -> 01:04:20.500] Oh, the high-speed chicane is actually reasonable, where it carries on a bit further and goes round.
[01:04:20.500 -> 01:04:22.500] And then, what's the other track?
[01:04:22.500 -> 01:04:23.500] Hockenheim.
[01:04:23.500 -> 01:04:24.500] Hockenheim, right.
[01:04:24.500 -> 01:04:28.160] Now, Hockenheim, that's a great track. You've got that, you know, a big long straight into the
[01:04:28.160 -> 01:04:33.040] hairpin and then and basically, well we're not going to bring back the forest. No one
[01:04:33.040 -> 01:04:38.880] wants the forest, do we? No, because that was boring. Go back and watch old Hockenheim
[01:04:38.880 -> 01:04:44.160] races. It just took forever. It was a little bit boring but it was spectacular. What a
[01:04:44.160 -> 01:04:45.600] spectacle of seeing the cars go
[01:04:45.600 -> 01:04:49.840] through the trees like that. But yeah and also with really long tracks, a bit like Spa, if you're
[01:04:49.840 -> 01:04:54.800] going there as a spectator you only got to see the cars 44 times you see them at Spa. I think it was
[01:04:54.800 -> 01:04:59.280] only 47 at Hockenheim so the actual crowd there are not really getting their money's worth.
[01:05:00.480 -> 01:05:04.960] Yeah no, with Hockenheim I think that could be a time of year issue because Hockenheim,
[01:05:04.960 -> 01:05:05.160] throw in some rain and you've got yourself the best race of the season, without a doubt. And Yeah, no, with Hockenheim, I think that could be a time of year issue because Hockenheim,
[01:05:05.160 -> 01:05:09.920] throw in some rain and you've got yourself the best race of the season, without a doubt.
[01:05:09.920 -> 01:05:14.680] And I'm actually going to make a very strong point about this. I do really want a German
[01:05:14.680 -> 01:05:20.240] Grand Prix. I think it's taken off the calendar just due to funding issues, you know, the
[01:05:20.240 -> 01:05:24.080] same old story really. But I think it's such a shame, you know, especially in countries
[01:05:24.080 -> 01:05:28.900] like Germany that are so integral to motorsports. How are they not represented?
[01:05:28.900 -> 01:05:34.260] They had a switch, didn't they, where they had one year Nürburgring and one year in
[01:05:34.260 -> 01:05:38.060] Hockenheim for a little while. But I think a lot of it was put down to the fact that
[01:05:38.060 -> 01:05:43.380] Schumacher had a really big following. And I've heard, this is Joe Sayward has said that
[01:05:43.380 -> 01:05:51.440] that was down to him having like a big working class following and everyone would have like mullets. And that demographic
[01:05:51.440 -> 01:05:56.440] didn't follow Sebastian Vettel into Formula One and didn't throw their weight behind him
[01:05:56.440 -> 01:06:00.960] because he was seen as somehow, you know, more middle class. Although I think, you know,
[01:06:00.960 -> 01:06:06.160] with today's grids, I think he wouldids, I think you probably wouldn't be expected to be the one
[01:06:06.160 -> 01:06:12.880] to buy a round of drinks. So yes, a German Grand Prix for sure. The problem with your French Grand
[01:06:12.880 -> 01:06:19.120] Prix, not at Paul Ricard, is that it would be Manicor, which... Do you know what? My memory,
[01:06:19.120 -> 01:06:22.000] it's gone. It's gone from my memory, to be honest, Kyle. Manicor.
[01:06:22.720 -> 01:06:26.440] Manicor has thrown up some amazing races over the years.
[01:06:26.440 -> 01:06:29.240] It has one overtaking opportunity.
[01:06:29.240 -> 01:06:30.080] Oh, great.
[01:06:30.080 -> 01:06:32.260] Yes, and one, but no, but it's a major one,
[01:06:32.260 -> 01:06:33.920] down into the, I can't remember what it's called.
[01:06:33.920 -> 01:06:36.480] I think it might be, it's not Imola,
[01:06:36.480 -> 01:06:38.320] because all the corners are named after other tracks
[01:06:38.320 -> 01:06:39.160] at that point.
[01:06:39.160 -> 01:06:39.980] Imola is in Italy.
[01:06:39.980 -> 01:06:41.880] I think it's the, thank you.
[01:06:41.880 -> 01:06:42.720] Thanks, Mark.
[01:06:42.720 -> 01:06:47.080] Yeah, but into the hairpin, which I cannot remember for life and it's going to be really
[01:06:47.080 -> 01:06:51.000] annoying me, but it's thrown up a load of drama and it's put up some really good races.
[01:06:51.000 -> 01:06:59.440] I believe the last one we had was 2007 there or 2008, but previously it was in the refueling
[01:06:59.440 -> 01:07:00.440] years previously.
[01:07:00.440 -> 01:07:06.000] So that's when Schumacher did the famous four stop strategy in 2004, I believe, but it is
[01:07:06.000 -> 01:07:08.680] actually a really, really good track and reaped in history.
[01:07:08.680 -> 01:07:11.840] The only problem is it's in the middle of nowhere.
[01:07:11.840 -> 01:07:13.800] So the fans are hard to get to it.
[01:07:13.800 -> 01:07:17.400] The teams don't particularly like going there because it is in the middle of nowhere, but
[01:07:17.400 -> 01:07:19.400] it would be a really, really good shout.
[01:07:19.400 -> 01:07:24.800] And that image of the first corner, it's super fast and going up the straight is quite iconic
[01:07:24.800 -> 01:07:25.280] for Formula
[01:07:25.280 -> 01:07:30.800] One in my opinion. Yeah, I would say with MagnaCorp, I've made a whole video about this,
[01:07:30.800 -> 01:07:36.000] how much I advocate for it. I've made a whole video about which tracks I would rather see than
[01:07:36.000 -> 01:07:40.800] Paul Ricard, which are all in France. And in TikTok, a whole video is like 30 seconds, so it
[01:07:40.800 -> 01:07:47.400] won't take any of your time. Spare no time, yeah, go for it. But no, going back to location, that's actually
[01:07:47.400 -> 01:07:52.220] a really big logistical issue that I don't think really is talked about a lot with tracks
[01:07:52.220 -> 01:07:57.040] because whilst funding of course is the biggest component, logistically speaking, if the cars
[01:07:57.040 -> 01:08:01.180] can't get to the grid, that is an issue. And it's actually one of the things that's putting
[01:08:01.180 -> 01:08:08.920] people off going to certain Grands Prix, you know, for example, Spa, whilst it's one of the things that's putting people off going to certain Grands Prix, you know, for example Spa, whilst it's one of the most iconic tracks on the grid and will always, fingers
[01:08:08.920 -> 01:08:12.880] crossed, be on the grid, one of my favourite Grands Prix. That is also in the middle of
[01:08:12.880 -> 01:08:17.840] absolutely nowhere and logistically it is a big headache.
[01:08:17.840 -> 01:08:22.080] I don't care where the tracks are, or the logistics, because I can't afford to go to
[01:08:22.080 -> 01:08:30.000] any Grands Prix. I just want the ones that look good on TV. I also have no strong political opinion so I don't mind what's happening there. So please
[01:08:30.000 -> 01:08:35.280] bring back the Malaysian Grand Prix because that is such a good track. Bring back Shanghai because
[01:08:35.280 -> 01:08:41.120] that is probably the best modern Grand Prix circuit. The Indian Grand Prix is a great layout.
[01:08:41.120 -> 01:08:48.640] The Korean Grand Prix, oh but it's in a swamp and the journalists won't get their fo foie gras, delivered to them in time. I don't care, it was a good track for
[01:08:48.640 -> 01:08:54.360] modern race cars. What else am I missing? What great modern tracks appeared in a flurry
[01:08:54.360 -> 01:08:55.920] and then disappeared, Carl?
[01:08:55.920 -> 01:08:56.920] Istanbul.
[01:08:56.920 -> 01:08:59.320] Istanbul, Istanbul as well, yeah.
[01:08:59.320 -> 01:09:00.320] Kyalami.
[01:09:00.320 -> 01:09:04.440] Greatest achievement, Kyalami is amazing. Kyalami's an old school, very old school track
[01:09:04.440 -> 01:09:08.640] but the modern... Yeah, but it's so iconic. Why don't I know Kyle Armey? When was the last time Kyle Armey
[01:09:08.640 -> 01:09:12.400] in South Africa? When was the last time? 1993 was the last Grand Prix.
[01:09:12.400 -> 01:09:17.200] Ah, he was too young. But it's had racing since then, so it's not completely,
[01:09:18.000 -> 01:09:21.200] you know, degraded and dead or whatever. Grade 2 I think, FIA.
[01:09:21.200 -> 01:09:25.600] Oh, so it needs to be put up a listing then. So for a track to be used in Formula One,
[01:09:25.600 -> 01:09:29.400] it needs to be Grade 1 FIA listed. So that would need to be sorted out.
[01:09:29.400 -> 01:09:35.040] And it would be fantastic for F1 to be represented on another continent and be a truly international
[01:09:35.040 -> 01:09:40.400] sport as well. Okay, so things that we want to leave behind in 2022 is a really rich topic.
[01:09:40.400 -> 01:09:46.160] So to the panel, send me a message now in a mad panic if you need to go, because I intend
[01:09:46.160 -> 01:09:49.000] to answer a few of the listener ones that came in.
[01:09:49.000 -> 01:09:54.660] So Sean Kelly, the F1 stat man, responded to my tweet.
[01:09:54.660 -> 01:09:55.660] No big deal.
[01:09:55.660 -> 01:10:00.600] It's just a level I'm at, that the person who makes the commentators around the world
[01:10:00.600 -> 01:10:04.760] sound like they know things about Formula One just casually replies to my tweet, Kyle.
[01:10:04.760 -> 01:10:07.160] Yeah, it's boring, but you know, it's just part of my life.
[01:10:07.160 -> 01:10:09.120] But does he have credentials?
[01:10:09.120 -> 01:10:13.600] He does have credentials, yes. Somebody challenged him on one of his tweets and said, poor fella.
[01:10:13.600 -> 01:10:14.600] Oh yeah.
[01:10:14.600 -> 01:10:19.880] Oh yeah? What's your level of F1 stat knowledge? Well, I generate F1 stats for the entire world.
[01:10:19.880 -> 01:10:24.240] So this is Sean Kelly, the virtual stat man. If you're not following him on Twitter, that
[01:10:24.240 -> 01:10:26.040] is a big miss. go and follow him.
[01:10:26.040 -> 01:10:28.680] So I asked, copying from Antonio,
[01:10:28.680 -> 01:10:31.700] what would you leave behind in 2022 in F1?
[01:10:31.700 -> 01:10:35.440] Sean Kelly says the incorrect definition of pole position.
[01:10:35.440 -> 01:10:37.120] And this has confused me.
[01:10:37.120 -> 01:10:40.200] And I had to basically say, well, I know what it is, Sean,
[01:10:40.200 -> 01:10:41.560] but for the sake of those other idiots,
[01:10:41.560 -> 01:10:43.160] which one should be pole?
[01:10:43.160 -> 01:10:45.200] The person who is on pole
[01:10:45.200 -> 01:10:49.760] who wins Friday qualifying, the person who wins the sprint race, or the person who starts
[01:10:50.320 -> 01:10:53.440] on the grid on Sunday? Antonia, which one is pole position?
[01:10:54.160 -> 01:10:57.120] Well, the definition of pole position comes from horse racing.
[01:10:57.120 -> 01:10:59.920] Does it? No way!
[01:10:59.920 -> 01:11:07.040] So it was where the horses started next to the pole, the literal pole, hence why it's called pole position.
[01:11:07.040 -> 01:11:08.000] Did everyone else know this?
[01:11:08.000 -> 01:11:09.960] Is this common knowledge?
[01:11:09.960 -> 01:11:10.800] No.
[01:11:10.800 -> 01:11:13.040] No, okay, so you've just taught us stuff.
[01:11:13.040 -> 01:11:13.880] And we need that.
[01:11:13.880 -> 01:11:14.700] Oh, that's what I'm here for.
[01:11:14.700 -> 01:11:16.200] I assume you're a horsey person,
[01:11:16.200 -> 01:11:17.660] you must know that then.
[01:11:17.660 -> 01:11:20.440] No, it's F1, so I know it, but anyway.
[01:11:20.440 -> 01:11:22.560] Oh, that puts us to shame, doesn't it?
[01:11:22.560 -> 01:11:24.840] Wow, that's quite passive aggressive.
[01:11:24.840 -> 01:11:26.040] Okay, so
[01:11:26.040 -> 01:11:28.840] pole position should be when they line up at the rest.
[01:11:28.840 -> 01:11:32.640] It should be the first person on the grid. Yeah, yeah. So in my opinion, it should just
[01:11:32.640 -> 01:11:40.000] be in after qualifying, whoever is fastest gets pole position because they are the fastest
[01:11:40.000 -> 01:11:49.840] person and they are starting on the grid first. But, but, okay, so in that scenario, what if someone wins qualifying but then can't
[01:11:49.840 -> 01:11:51.360] start the race?
[01:11:51.360 -> 01:11:55.460] Then they're not on pole position because the pole position is a thing on the grid.
[01:11:55.460 -> 01:12:00.480] So you only get the stat for most poles is only one if you line up on the Sunday. Is
[01:12:00.480 -> 01:12:02.640] that in your definition?
[01:12:02.640 -> 01:12:06.320] If you're not there, next to where the proverbial
[01:12:06.320 -> 01:12:11.600] poll would be, then you're just the fastest on track. You can win in qualifying per se
[01:12:11.600 -> 01:12:16.240] and right, everyone's shaking their heads, allow me to explain. Right. You can be the
[01:12:16.240 -> 01:12:22.280] fastest in qualifying. You can be P1 in qualifying. Great. Good for you. Pat on the back. Awesome.
[01:12:22.280 -> 01:12:26.000] But if you are not at the poll position where the poll would be, then you, pat on the back, awesome. But if you are not at the pole position, where
[01:12:26.000 -> 01:12:28.880] the pole would be, then you're not on pole position.
[01:12:28.880 -> 01:12:33.320] So to back up Antonia a little bit, in the olden days, I don't know when this stopped
[01:12:33.320 -> 01:12:38.760] happening, but on a Saturday they would always describe it as provisional pole position.
[01:12:38.760 -> 01:12:42.880] That's how they always described it. Matt, why is Antonia wrong?
[01:12:42.880 -> 01:12:47.000] Because the regulations prescribe pole position as the person who's fastest in qualifying.
[01:12:47.000 -> 01:12:50.000] I mean, I hate to be really dull and pedantic.
[01:12:50.000 -> 01:12:59.000] The elimination qualifying that we have on either Friday in a sprint race weekend or Saturday.
[01:12:59.000 -> 01:13:06.240] And it has been that way for a long time. And if, now to be fair, I'm saying this
[01:13:06.240 -> 01:13:09.160] because I have witnessed and experienced
[01:13:09.160 -> 01:13:11.520] and lived through multiple Twitter rants,
[01:13:11.520 -> 01:13:13.920] Sean Kelly about this particular subject.
[01:13:13.920 -> 01:13:17.200] So I feel like I'm in solid ground here,
[01:13:17.200 -> 01:13:19.200] parroting his thing,
[01:13:19.200 -> 01:13:22.760] but it's always been you wind pole position
[01:13:22.760 -> 01:13:27.240] in qualifying and starting in the grid slot number one is
[01:13:27.240 -> 01:13:31.920] not the same thing as having won pole position.
[01:13:31.920 -> 01:13:36.320] You can win pole position but then not necessarily receive it.
[01:13:36.320 -> 01:13:40.920] So you can say they deserve pole position, they've earned pole position because they
[01:13:40.920 -> 01:13:45.340] were the fastest, but they might not start the race on pole position.
[01:13:45.340 -> 01:13:46.340] That's my take.
[01:13:46.340 -> 01:13:48.540] But I do see where you're coming from.
[01:13:48.540 -> 01:13:50.120] I get that.
[01:13:50.120 -> 01:13:54.340] I think the issue is that when they count up for the pole position trophies, it's based
[01:13:54.340 -> 01:13:58.820] on where you finish in qualifying and not where you started in the race.
[01:13:58.820 -> 01:14:05.520] And so the official definition of pole position is who is quickest on either the Friday or the
[01:14:05.520 -> 01:14:06.520] Saturday.
[01:14:06.520 -> 01:14:07.520] Kyle?
[01:14:07.520 -> 01:14:12.600] Besides, yeah, besides highlighting many issues with the sprint weekend, which I'm not going
[01:14:12.600 -> 01:14:17.240] to go into, which causes all of this, I'm keeping my mouth shut on that thing.
[01:14:17.240 -> 01:14:22.840] So we're saying like Charles Leclerc, Monaco 2020, he didn't start on pole.
[01:14:22.840 -> 01:14:25.800] He got pole position, but didn't start on pole. Because
[01:14:25.800 -> 01:14:30.800] remember he hit the, he had a gearbox problem. So I agree with Antonia, what she says.
[01:14:30.800 -> 01:14:33.620] So was that a pole? Was that a pole?
[01:14:33.620 -> 01:14:38.160] He was credited with pole position in stats, but he didn't start on pole position.
[01:14:38.160 -> 01:14:47.280] It say, this is a weird one. So I think for the stats, if you're fastest in qualifying, you are accredited with pole.
[01:14:47.280 -> 01:14:51.600] But if you start on the number one position on the grid, but wasn't fastest in qualifying,
[01:14:51.600 -> 01:14:53.640] you've still started on pole.
[01:14:53.640 -> 01:14:55.920] If that makes any sense.
[01:14:55.920 -> 01:14:57.160] That's such a good way of putting it.
[01:14:57.160 -> 01:15:00.700] It's a credit card, not a debit card.
[01:15:00.700 -> 01:15:05.680] So you are owed pole position if you are the fastest but that it's not a debit card it's
[01:15:05.680 -> 01:15:09.800] not an automatic right you are starting in P1 then no matter what you're starting in
[01:15:09.800 -> 01:15:14.960] the pole position it's you're owed it you might you might get paid it we'll see.
[01:15:14.960 -> 01:15:19.200] Absolutely because Schumacher's last ever pole position in Formula One was the 2012
[01:15:19.200 -> 01:15:22.960] Monaco Grand Prix but he didn't start on pole because he had the five place grid penalty.
[01:15:22.960 -> 01:15:24.440] But that counts as a pole?
[01:15:24.440 -> 01:15:25.760] Yeah he was fastest in qualifying so he was awarded pole pole because he had the five grid place grid penalty. But that counts as a pole? Yeah.
[01:15:25.760 -> 01:15:29.080] He was fastest in qualifying, so he was awarded pole position, but then had a five place grid
[01:15:29.080 -> 01:15:31.680] penalty for a misdemeanor at the previous race.
[01:15:31.680 -> 01:15:32.800] Oh, okay.
[01:15:32.800 -> 01:15:34.760] So that's not the one where he parked it at Rascat?
[01:15:34.760 -> 01:15:35.760] No, that was 2006.
[01:15:35.760 -> 01:15:36.760] Oh, okay.
[01:15:36.760 -> 01:15:37.760] Okay.
[01:15:37.760 -> 01:15:39.760] And he wasn't going to get pole anyway, was he, on that?
[01:15:39.760 -> 01:15:40.760] No.
[01:15:40.760 -> 01:15:41.760] No.
[01:15:41.760 -> 01:15:42.760] Okay.
[01:15:42.760 -> 01:15:43.760] Well, he technically did, but then got sent to the back of the grid because it was to
[01:15:43.760 -> 01:15:44.760] enforce the rules then.
[01:15:44.760 -> 01:15:45.000] Right, I see. Okay. Well, he technically did, but then got sent to the back of the grid because he needs to enforce the rules then.
[01:15:45.000 -> 01:15:46.000] Right, I see.
[01:15:46.000 -> 01:15:47.000] Okay, good.
[01:15:47.000 -> 01:15:53.720] Okay, so Sean's reply was, the Sunday grid determines pole position for the Grand Prix
[01:15:53.720 -> 01:15:55.320] because that's the Grand Prix.
[01:15:55.320 -> 01:15:59.440] If Saturday's grid determines the pole for the Grand Prix, then Saturday is therefore
[01:15:59.440 -> 01:16:04.040] the start of the Grand Prix and the red flag should be thrown to stop the race, not the
[01:16:04.040 -> 01:16:11.320] chequered flag. Race then resumes on Sunday." So I have no idea. I think that is Sean's personal viewpoint,
[01:16:11.320 -> 01:16:16.480] but the stats show that the pole position person is the person who wins qualifying.
[01:16:16.480 -> 01:16:20.560] So that's what Matt is saying in the regulation. What Antonio is saying is that historically,
[01:16:20.560 -> 01:16:25.480] and from the etymology of the word, the spirit of it is whoever starts next to the pole,
[01:16:25.480 -> 01:16:31.440] i.e. P1, should have pole position. But the stats credit the winner of qualifying. Okay,
[01:16:31.440 -> 01:16:37.160] final question. On a sprint weekend, who gets pole position? Does anyone know?
[01:16:37.160 -> 01:16:40.360] The person who is fastest in qualifying.
[01:16:40.360 -> 01:16:41.360] Which qualifying?
[01:16:41.360 -> 01:16:46.000] Isn't technically a sprint race a qualifying?
[01:16:46.000 -> 01:16:50.000] Yeah, no, no, no. The sprint race is called sprint qualifying, so it should be qualifying.
[01:16:50.000 -> 01:16:52.000] Right, so, I rest my case. That's all done.
[01:16:58.000 -> 01:17:02.000] Okay, there's some really good things, of things we should leave behind in 2022,
[01:17:02.000 -> 01:17:08.640] but I think Matt has a chat room comment that he'd like to read out. Otherwise, you've laughed out loud for no reason and made a fool of me.
[01:17:08.640 -> 01:17:13.440] Well, I laughed out loud at this is dumb. Like your segue was excellent.
[01:17:13.440 -> 01:17:14.960] Oh, you were laughing at me!
[01:17:14.960 -> 01:17:20.320] You actually made me laugh, but I will say that you're surrounded by walls and hedonism
[01:17:20.320 -> 01:17:24.800] has been nominated for a comment of the week by none other than Maria.
[01:17:24.800 -> 01:17:28.520] Brilliant, brilliant. I did enjoy that comment. Okay, so looking down there's some really good
[01:17:28.520 -> 01:17:35.200] replies. So Toby says that perhaps gaslighting and toxic fan bases should be left behind in 2022.
[01:17:35.200 -> 01:17:41.080] Oh, some of them are kind of fun. Only the ones I contribute to, not the other lot. That lot are
[01:17:41.080 -> 01:17:46.680] wrong and toxic and they are the worst. Sprint races in Singapore, Monaco, and Mexico,
[01:17:46.680 -> 01:17:48.360] we'll leave that for the second.
[01:17:48.360 -> 01:17:50.200] Sinnoh, he's got a good one here.
[01:17:51.200 -> 01:17:53.480] Porpoising, they got the better of it
[01:17:53.480 -> 01:17:55.120] at the end of the year,
[01:17:55.120 -> 01:17:56.200] but when you watch the highlights
[01:17:56.200 -> 01:17:57.040] from the start of the season,
[01:17:57.040 -> 01:17:59.320] the cars look ridiculous bouncing down the straights.
[01:17:59.320 -> 01:18:01.800] They did look ridiculous, car power,
[01:18:01.800 -> 01:18:07.400] similar to 2014 when cars were just stopping dead on track.
[01:18:07.400 -> 01:18:08.400] Yeah.
[01:18:08.400 -> 01:18:09.600] Renaults mostly.
[01:18:09.600 -> 01:18:13.520] Stopping dead on track and being slower than GP2 as well.
[01:18:13.520 -> 01:18:15.000] Formula 1 should be like the poor person.
[01:18:15.000 -> 01:18:20.420] 2014 was a bit embarrassing, but the poor person, yeah, I think we pretty much have
[01:18:20.420 -> 01:18:21.420] said goodbye to it.
[01:18:21.420 -> 01:18:25.600] And also because they've got 15 millimeter, I believe, raised on the sides
[01:18:25.600 -> 01:18:31.040] of the floor, 25mm, they've now made additional technical changes to counteract it. That's it,
[01:18:31.040 -> 01:18:35.120] I think it's 25mm higher throat in the diffuser and 15mm, what is it, the floor's been raised.
[01:18:35.120 -> 01:18:36.640] 15mm floor edges, yeah.
[01:18:36.640 -> 01:18:41.440] Okay. So that will further stop it as well. And they're getting used to this new simplified
[01:18:41.440 -> 01:18:46.160] suspension. So I'll be surprised if we see porpoising as an issue anymore.
[01:18:46.160 -> 01:18:47.720] Matt?
[01:18:47.720 -> 01:18:49.720] Except for, of course, the laws of physics,
[01:18:49.720 -> 01:18:51.440] we'll always disagree with you.
[01:18:51.440 -> 01:18:54.360] Should an F1 team get something wrong?
[01:18:54.360 -> 01:18:57.760] And so, I mean, yeah, it looked ridiculous.
[01:18:57.760 -> 01:19:01.000] But also, that's why we watch Formula 1.
[01:19:01.000 -> 01:19:03.720] Here are the smartest people in the world being entirely
[01:19:03.720 -> 01:19:04.600] wrong about a thing.
[01:19:04.600 -> 01:19:08.960] And in Mercedes' case, for quite some time before they figured it out, it's kind of fun.
[01:19:09.840 -> 01:19:14.640] Yeah, it was a case of there was an issue, there was a lot of fumbling trying to find out what the
[01:19:14.640 -> 01:19:19.360] issue was, the root of it, etc. And it seems to have been pretty much resolved. I mean, I think
[01:19:19.360 -> 01:19:24.480] I've explained this before, but the cause of porpoising was the air was getting trapped under
[01:19:24.480 -> 01:19:28.840] the car and cooling down, which then caused it to lift up and then new air was coming in. And
[01:19:28.840 -> 01:19:29.840] this was due to the...
[01:19:29.840 -> 01:19:31.960] Wait, is that what it was? I didn't know it was temperature related.
[01:19:31.960 -> 01:19:34.720] Well, okay, I'll do a dummy explanation.
[01:19:34.720 -> 01:19:35.720] Oh yeah, do it.
[01:19:35.720 -> 01:19:41.080] So basically, the aerodynamics of the cars were completely changed with the new cars
[01:19:41.080 -> 01:19:45.840] that came in in 2022. And that basically meant that more air was being directed
[01:19:45.840 -> 01:19:51.680] underneath the car and also above to the rear wing and that was in part to try and help with
[01:19:51.680 -> 01:19:57.600] the dirty air issue. But with that came the fact that hot air was being carried underneath the car
[01:19:57.600 -> 01:20:02.960] to be then expelled backwards, but it was so hot and it was getting trapped underneath the car
[01:20:02.960 -> 01:20:10.400] because it had nowhere to go. So then this hot air cooled down underneath the floor of the car and lifted the car up because it
[01:20:10.400 -> 01:20:15.280] was trapped and more air was coming in that pulled the car down with the downforce and
[01:20:15.280 -> 01:20:19.480] then it would get lifted up when the air cooled. And then that was how the cycle of bouncing
[01:20:19.480 -> 01:20:22.680] up and down happened because the car would lift, it would get pulled back down again
[01:20:22.680 -> 01:20:29.840] and vice, you know, it ended whatever. And the reason that this got resolved was teams found ways to create channels in the
[01:20:29.840 -> 01:20:34.960] floor of the car that allowed this air to escape. But yeah, so it seems as though it's been resolved.
[01:20:34.960 -> 01:20:39.040] But in essence, the issue was just why on earth is this air not getting out?
[01:20:39.600 -> 01:20:42.320] How, you know, it came down to aerodynamics, basically.
[01:20:42.320 -> 01:20:48.960] I was really hoping this hadn't come up on Tech Tech Time so then that would out me as not having listened or paid close enough attention or fallen asleep
[01:20:48.960 -> 01:20:53.360] before that explanation. But honestly, I thought it was kind of like a, you know,
[01:20:53.360 -> 01:20:58.400] like a vacuum that was sucking it down and then the cars coming down would mean that
[01:20:59.200 -> 01:21:02.960] would sort of break that vacuum and then put them back up. I had no idea it was, you know,
[01:21:02.960 -> 01:21:05.760] temperature related or, you know related or any of the things
[01:21:05.760 -> 01:21:10.160] Antonia said that I'm going to have to rewind and listen to again. Well, fundamentally, pressure,
[01:21:10.160 -> 01:21:15.040] velocity, and temperature are all related. So the faster you go, the lower the pressure,
[01:21:15.040 -> 01:21:19.120] the cooler the temperature. Okay, so like what Antonia said, but more boring. Antonia, you try
[01:21:19.120 -> 01:21:25.760] again. Yeah, so the hot air is what pulls it to the floor. That's how the cars don't take off.
[01:21:25.760 -> 01:21:30.080] It's the downforce and the air's traveling underneath the car and it's sucked down
[01:21:30.720 -> 01:21:34.480] and that's why the cars were coming back down after they were bouncing back up again.
[01:21:34.480 -> 01:21:36.880] So it is due to being sucked down to the floor.
[01:21:36.880 -> 01:21:41.440] Oh, I see. Okay, so just so I know how much attention I have to pay to this,
[01:21:41.440 -> 01:21:43.600] will it be an issue in 2023 at all?
[01:21:44.400 -> 01:21:46.780] I very much doubt it.
[01:21:46.780 -> 01:21:47.780] We all concur.
[01:21:47.780 -> 01:21:48.780] Oh, it's quite a techie.
[01:21:48.780 -> 01:21:50.960] I forgot how techie this panel was.
[01:21:50.960 -> 01:21:53.000] So you're all nodding.
[01:21:53.000 -> 01:21:55.640] Only if they get their suspension settings wrong will it be an issue.
[01:21:55.640 -> 01:21:56.640] All right then.
[01:21:56.640 -> 01:21:59.240] Okay, let's move on to another question.
[01:21:59.240 -> 01:22:01.680] We had somebody suggest Miami.
[01:22:01.680 -> 01:22:06.720] Actually, we had a few people saying we should leave Miami in 2022. Tweetsport
[01:22:06.720 -> 01:22:07.720] said that.
[01:22:07.720 -> 01:22:08.720] I like my fake marina.
[01:22:08.720 -> 01:22:16.040] And yeah, I mean, the fake marina came under quite a bit of criticism, but really that
[01:22:16.040 -> 01:22:21.760] was just a trackside feature. It was, yes, it's funny to go, okay, they tried to recreate
[01:22:21.760 -> 01:22:25.320] Monaco and the water wasn't real, but they did an
[01:22:25.320 -> 01:22:30.720] homage to some of the great circuits around the world. There was a lot of glamour, the
[01:22:30.720 -> 01:22:37.720] track wasn't great, but fundamentally, I didn't like the race, but I sort of... it's quite
[01:22:37.720 -> 01:22:39.280] American-y, isn't it?
[01:22:39.280 -> 01:22:46.080] My issue lies here. They built this circuit like an Ikea piece of furniture from a flat pack
[01:22:46.960 -> 01:22:49.440] and you're telling me they couldn't have made it good?
[01:22:50.320 -> 01:22:57.440] Yeah, it's not like they didn't have historical things to draw upon and yet they had lots of
[01:22:57.440 -> 01:23:11.280] choke points in that track which slowed people down and there was a really like twisty quadruple chicane thing. There were so many places where I just took so many issues with it because there were so many
[01:23:11.280 -> 01:23:16.240] good ideas. The whole, you know, getting Americans involved in the sport with the New Wave of fans,
[01:23:16.240 -> 01:23:22.560] it's a fantastic idea. We need to engage more with American fans. And I just, it hurts to see
[01:23:22.560 -> 01:23:26.680] what could be really good and has no excuse not to be
[01:23:26.680 -> 01:23:32.520] being fumbled by these really weird technical attempts at making a good race that seem in
[01:23:32.520 -> 01:23:35.000] many ways overthought.
[01:23:35.000 -> 01:23:38.800] There is a good explanation, which I'm not going to steal from Matt. I'm going to let
[01:23:38.800 -> 01:23:42.360] him do that because I know exactly what he's going to say at this next bit.
[01:23:42.360 -> 01:23:44.200] Just say it, steal it, steal it.
[01:23:44.200 -> 01:23:48.880] So he's going to address what I call the clumsy flip-flop, which was the awful bit in that
[01:23:48.880 -> 01:23:49.880] Miami thing.
[01:23:49.880 -> 01:23:51.520] So yeah, they've kind of shoehorned it in.
[01:23:51.520 -> 01:23:55.440] And also with Vegas coming as well, someone might need to tell Stefano that you need to
[01:23:55.440 -> 01:23:58.000] finish your Middle East before you can have your America.
[01:23:58.000 -> 01:24:02.000] He keeps trying to put in the extra sort of races into things, which is good.
[01:24:02.000 -> 01:24:09.760] We need to tap into the American market, but these races need to have a bit of maybe soul to them. And Miami, I think, yeah, sort of missed
[01:24:09.760 -> 01:24:14.640] the soul bit a little bit. Maybe a bit superficial, a bit like you're trying to force it. Maybe
[01:24:14.640 -> 01:24:18.240] in five years, we might look back fondly and be like, oh, actually, that's really good.
[01:24:18.240 -> 01:24:21.520] And it becomes a nice mainstay. But for the first sort of thing, I don't think it was
[01:24:21.520 -> 01:24:23.760] very warmly received by the wider thing.
[01:24:23.760 -> 01:24:27.920] I just want to be careful when you're saying soulless and whatever, I just want to be careful
[01:24:27.920 -> 01:24:32.640] that you're not saying like not traditional or not British or not European or not...
[01:24:32.640 -> 01:24:33.440] Maybe slightly.
[01:24:33.440 -> 01:24:38.560] Or not our F1, because that's claiming ownership of F1 and saying that America has to do it the
[01:24:38.560 -> 01:24:44.400] same way we do it. And they don't, they own it. It's theirs. And the Saudis.
[01:24:44.400 -> 01:24:48.500] And it looks cool going around the stadium and stuff, but it looked a bit like an industrial
[01:24:48.500 -> 01:24:51.560] state car park at times. Some of the bits they've tried to shoehorn in, I think they
[01:24:51.560 -> 01:24:56.400] just slightly missed the, I just think they slightly missed the point with it, a tiny
[01:24:56.400 -> 01:24:57.720] bit.
[01:24:57.720 -> 01:25:02.560] I think maybe the reason that a lot of these circuits, where you're coming from with that,
[01:25:02.560 -> 01:25:10.480] these aren't being particularly well received, Might be because they're putting a lot on our plates at once as fans and change is always
[01:25:10.480 -> 01:25:15.760] better received when it's gradual. You know, you whack a new face on it on something and it's not
[01:25:15.760 -> 01:25:22.640] always particularly well received by fans because it's not the warm, cozy, regular, samey old thing
[01:25:22.640 -> 01:25:26.240] that everyone's used to. Why can't every track be Silverstone?
[01:25:27.360 -> 01:25:32.160] Yeah, well, you know, of course, I think the main issue is with all of these new tracks coming in,
[01:25:32.160 -> 01:25:35.760] I do think it was an inevitability that they were coming in and like Kyle said,
[01:25:36.640 -> 01:25:41.680] stepping into the American market is a huge step that does need to be taken.
[01:25:41.680 -> 01:25:45.760] But, with all of this change at once and all of these new circuits
[01:25:45.760 -> 01:25:51.920] at once, as fans I can understand why we're not as receptive to these new circuits as F1 as a
[01:25:51.920 -> 01:25:58.000] corporation might want us to be. Well, Matt, we should just state for complete clarity and full
[01:25:58.000 -> 01:26:02.960] disclosure, you and I, any objections we have to the Las Vegas Grand Prix have disappeared very
[01:26:02.960 -> 01:26:05.640] quickly in recent weeks. I don't think we ever had any. No, I think we always to the Las Vegas Grand Prix have disappeared very quickly in recent weeks.
[01:26:05.640 -> 01:26:06.640] I don't think we ever had any.
[01:26:06.640 -> 01:26:10.640] No, I think we always loved the Las Vegas Grand Prix and it's going to be brilliant
[01:26:10.640 -> 01:26:14.880] and it's definitely a good idea.
[01:26:14.880 -> 01:26:19.280] So Miami was intended as a destination Grand Prix.
[01:26:19.280 -> 01:26:24.960] Like Singapore, like Monaco, it was meant for your wheelers and your dealers and your
[01:26:24.960 -> 01:26:26.600] jet setters to go and have
[01:26:26.600 -> 01:26:31.760] a great time in Miami, which is, if you're that kind of a person, a great town to be in. And with
[01:26:31.760 -> 01:26:37.000] regards to the track, like, okay, so I get from a racing point of view what you're saying about
[01:26:37.000 -> 01:26:46.960] that corner, but that corner was an exercise in technical ledger domain that will never be bettered because they had to
[01:26:46.960 -> 01:26:52.760] fit it under a bridge and they had to meet all the FIA safety requirements about it.
[01:26:52.760 -> 01:27:02.140] And it was an astonishing feat of technical expertise to make that corner work.
[01:27:02.140 -> 01:27:05.120] Now granted, it was terrible for racing and they've admitted as much and we'll
[01:27:05.120 -> 01:27:11.360] probably not put it there next time they have a race in Miami, but I think we can just appreciate
[01:27:11.360 -> 01:27:16.400] it for the masterpiece that it was. Perhaps the issue with that then lays in the fact that it's
[01:27:16.400 -> 01:27:21.280] a little bit incongruous perhaps to the setting of Miami which is... I don't know what incongruous
[01:27:21.280 -> 01:27:30.000] means you're gonna have to help me. It doesn't quite match up. These incredible technical feats of track workmanship or
[01:27:30.000 -> 01:27:34.800] whatever the correct word for that would be, it doesn't seem well placed at Miami because
[01:27:34.800 -> 01:27:40.080] Miami was a Grand Prix on surface level that's made to attract the fans. Like you said, Trampets,
[01:27:40.080 -> 01:27:50.080] it's a show race and there's nothing wrong with that and it's a show race, and there's nothing wrong with that, and it's a destination Grand Prix, but having these intricate small details that perhaps people who are just going there for the
[01:27:50.080 -> 01:27:55.200] atmosphere and for the joy of watching F1 might not pick up on. And you know, sometimes you do
[01:27:55.200 -> 01:28:00.800] just want to see a bunch of overtakes in a really great race, because it is really hard to appreciate
[01:28:00.800 -> 01:28:07.360] a fantastic engineering aerodynamic feat in the wider setting of a Grand Prix
[01:28:07.360 -> 01:28:08.360] like Miami.
[01:28:08.360 -> 01:28:15.080] But you're asking, what you're saying is, in the context of every street track being
[01:28:15.080 -> 01:28:21.540] indefensibly bad except maybe Baku sometimes, please create a street circuit which is brilliant
[01:28:21.540 -> 01:28:27.040] and incorporates all the things we want from racing. It's an even bigger ask when you put it that way.
[01:28:27.040 -> 01:28:33.560] In some ways, yes, but I just think in terms of the overall feel of the circuit, the actual
[01:28:33.560 -> 01:28:38.880] racing itself has to match that. You know, if they're promising us, like Las Vegas, a
[01:28:38.880 -> 01:28:47.400] big celebration of F1, a huge splendid display of just all of the biggest and best things about F1, people
[01:28:47.400 -> 01:28:53.080] aren't going to be so interested in seeing a driver skillfully navigate an incredibly
[01:28:53.080 -> 01:28:57.840] complex high downforce series of turns so much as they just want to see the cars go
[01:28:57.840 -> 01:29:01.200] past really quick and make some pretty nifty overtakes.
[01:29:01.200 -> 01:29:05.920] Nifty, nice. I hope nifty makes a comeback as a word.
[01:29:05.920 -> 01:29:06.920] Kyle.
[01:29:06.920 -> 01:29:11.440] Yeah, it's a good point by Antonio there.
[01:29:11.440 -> 01:29:15.200] Like you know, the traditionalists, the purists amongst us probably want to see a Formula
[01:29:15.200 -> 01:29:20.800] One car in its natural habitat, lovely flowing fast corners with some overtaking sort of
[01:29:20.800 -> 01:29:21.800] bits.
[01:29:21.800 -> 01:29:25.700] But Morgan in the chat makes a very good comment there and says it has
[01:29:25.700 -> 01:29:27.640] the formula E bit.
[01:29:27.640 -> 01:29:31.660] So that horrible, the clumsy flip flop going through these awkward little bits as Matt
[01:29:31.660 -> 01:29:36.780] expertly explained that they had to do to get it under the thing wasn't very Miami.
[01:29:36.780 -> 01:29:39.400] It didn't, it just didn't quite fit the bill.
[01:29:39.400 -> 01:29:43.660] So I think, yes, they've done these event Grand Prix's at these street circuits and
[01:29:43.660 -> 01:29:50.760] it's, yeah, they've tried to make it a destination thing, but it still has to suit and it looks a bit, it just didn't
[01:29:50.760 -> 01:29:55.920] sit well with the fans or looked a little bit drab really and it just clumsy car park
[01:29:55.920 -> 01:29:59.800] sort of, you know, Alan Partridge style, give me a bit of chalk and we'll draw it in a pub
[01:29:59.800 -> 01:30:03.040] car park and do it, if you don't, Sky will.
[01:30:03.040 -> 01:30:06.480] And it seems like the same sort of style. So yeah,
[01:30:06.480 -> 01:30:09.200] I just think they missed the ticket there. It didn't look glamorous, put it that way.
[01:30:09.200 -> 01:30:15.360] It didn't fit the bill. Yeah, well, I think the issue is less whether the track looked glamorous
[01:30:15.360 -> 01:30:20.400] and whether or not Miami was glamorous enough for the corporate bigwigs and jet-setters that
[01:30:20.400 -> 01:30:27.600] came to party in it all week. And I think we have to accept that if we're going to have races like Spa, and maybe even Silverstone,
[01:30:27.700 -> 01:30:32.140] that are no longer being put on the escalator by Liberty
[01:30:32.240 -> 01:30:35.480] to pay more and more money every season for their rights,
[01:30:35.580 -> 01:30:39.580] then we might have to accept that we have a few of these,
[01:30:40.120 -> 01:30:47.440] I don't know, destination events that continue to pay those kinds of bills.
[01:30:47.440 -> 01:30:53.720] Although in this case, I believe firmly the story that is entirely, entirely speculative
[01:30:53.720 -> 01:30:57.240] that it was just a favor to Donald Ross for dropping out of the bidding for Formula One
[01:30:57.240 -> 01:31:00.720] back in back when Liberty was bidding for it.
[01:31:00.720 -> 01:31:02.360] I completely agree.
[01:31:02.360 -> 01:31:05.760] Change is the springboard to longevity in Formula One.
[01:31:05.760 -> 01:31:12.560] The only way that F1 is going to stand the test of time is by leaning in, perhaps,
[01:31:12.560 -> 01:31:17.360] to some of the more negative stereotypes that are coming up in the past few years,
[01:31:17.360 -> 01:31:22.480] with fans just wanting to watch a race and not necessarily get into all of the tech and all of
[01:31:22.480 -> 01:31:27.580] the intricate details. And yeah, just have a massive show race per se,
[01:31:27.580 -> 01:31:30.380] a destination race that brings a lot of people in,
[01:31:30.380 -> 01:31:32.740] brings a lot of money into the sport.
[01:31:32.740 -> 01:31:36.000] And yeah, people who don't necessarily know their DRS
[01:31:36.000 -> 01:31:40.380] from their ERS can just go and enjoy the race
[01:31:40.380 -> 01:31:41.860] because, you know, we as fans,
[01:31:43.740 -> 01:31:47.500] my only thing would just be as long as these races don't replace
[01:31:47.500 -> 01:31:51.500] the classic circuits that are integral to the nature of the sport,
[01:31:51.500 -> 01:31:53.500] like Spa, like Monza at Imola,
[01:31:54.500 -> 01:31:55.500] that would be my only thing.
[01:31:55.500 -> 01:31:59.500] However, in order to engage with the American market,
[01:31:59.500 -> 01:32:03.500] in order to engage with the fact that this is a world championship,
[01:32:03.500 -> 01:32:05.120] not just a European championship
[01:32:05.120 -> 01:32:11.680] like it used to be, we need to have these races. When you're on a panel with middle-aged men,
[01:32:11.680 -> 01:32:16.640] when you said you need to embrace change, we all shied away from it like vampires with holy water.
[01:32:17.520 -> 01:32:25.000] No, change is bad, change is bad. But I just want to point out a stat, it might seem irrelevant, but our highest
[01:32:25.000 -> 01:32:31.600] performing episode of 2022, as it normally is, except for 2021, is in the European season,
[01:32:31.600 -> 01:32:37.400] normally peaks at the German Grand Prixs. Wasn't one in 2022, so the Hungarian Grand
[01:32:37.400 -> 01:32:47.580] Prix was where we peaked, with 17,000 YouTube views and 36,000 podcast downloads. So that's a total of over 53,000 in our audience
[01:32:47.580 -> 01:32:49.200] for a single episode.
[01:32:49.200 -> 01:32:50.980] And I only point that out
[01:32:50.980 -> 01:32:53.520] because I think that's a reasonably large audience.
[01:32:53.520 -> 01:32:56.660] And my opinion of your track will change
[01:32:56.660 -> 01:33:00.000] if me and to a lesser extent, Matt get paddock passes.
[01:33:00.000 -> 01:33:01.800] I just want to throw that out there.
[01:33:01.800 -> 01:33:10.560] ♪♪ I just want to throw that out there. Thanks very much for tuning into Mr Apex podcast.
[01:33:10.560 -> 01:33:12.760] Please go and follow my panel at Kyle Power.
[01:33:12.760 -> 01:33:15.720] I know, hang on, at Kyle Power F1?
[01:33:15.720 -> 01:33:18.800] You went all in and embraced the F1-ness there, Kyle.
[01:33:18.800 -> 01:33:21.080] I was just simply trying to avoid an underscore.
[01:33:21.080 -> 01:33:22.840] Yes, no, underscores are terrible.
[01:33:22.840 -> 01:33:30.000] And I have managed to convince quite a few of the panel to change their Twitter handles with underscores in and I'm glad they
[01:33:30.000 -> 01:33:37.360] did it, but I lost respect for them for caving so easily. So, at KylePowerF1 with increasingly
[01:33:37.360 -> 01:33:43.620] grumpy and forthright opinions on there. Follow Matt at MattPT55 on Twitter. We've got links
[01:33:43.620 -> 01:33:45.340] in the show notes. Let's include some links
[01:33:45.340 -> 01:33:49.220] to your wife's romantic novels so people can...
[01:33:49.220 -> 01:33:50.220] I'll write them.
[01:33:50.220 -> 01:33:51.220] Yeah, let's do that.
[01:33:51.220 -> 01:33:52.220] You can do that.
[01:33:52.220 -> 01:33:57.280] At A Weaver Writes. Writes, well, they're mucky books, Matt. They're mucky books, but
[01:33:57.280 -> 01:34:01.040] some people are into that sort of thing, but they do have... do they have a story? I only
[01:34:01.040 -> 01:34:03.920] read them for the stories, to be honest, Matt, for the plot. That's what I read them for.
[01:34:03.920 -> 01:34:09.600] They have actually excellent stories. I only read them for the stories, to be honest, Matt, for the plot. That's what I read. They have actually excellent stories. Her dialogue is a particular feature. Her dialogue is very,
[01:34:09.600 -> 01:34:17.920] very good. And, you know, being the partner of a writer, I've read them all, and they are good
[01:34:17.920 -> 01:34:23.040] in their own merit. You don't have to be a romance reader to enjoy it.
[01:34:23.040 -> 01:34:26.880] Try not to think too hard about where her inspiration for her romantic leads came
[01:34:26.880 -> 01:34:27.880] from.
[01:34:27.880 -> 01:34:30.880] That it is essentially Matt Trumpets fan fiction.
[01:34:30.880 -> 01:34:35.440] That could be an incentive or a disincentive, but the link will be in the show notes below
[01:34:35.440 -> 01:34:42.280] at MattPT55 on Twitter and Matt Trumpets on Facebook and Instagram and stuff like that.
[01:34:42.280 -> 01:34:50.320] We've got Antonio Rankin on TikTok. TikTok.com forward slash F1 Antonio to get to your TikTok and the link will be in the notes below.
[01:34:50.320 -> 01:34:56.160] But you need an app. An app is a program that does things that you can get from
[01:34:56.160 -> 01:35:00.720] the Play Store or the Apple Store and then you can go and enjoy all that kind of stuff.
[01:35:00.720 -> 01:35:11.040] And to be honest, I know people are quick to dismiss TikTok. I actually have to delete it periodically because I'm so addicted to the quality of the content that gets
[01:35:11.040 -> 01:35:14.560] just fed to you. I don't think I'm being controversial here. I think TikTok at the
[01:35:14.560 -> 01:35:20.320] moment has the richest quality of content creators. Oh, 100%. There is genuine... There's
[01:35:20.320 -> 01:35:28.000] beginning to be actually almost an oversaturation of each of the markets because everyone's trying so hard to find a niche within the space but yeah
[01:35:28.000 -> 01:35:33.000] I know since me starting my TikTok a year ago my dad's got pretty hooked so
[01:35:33.000 -> 01:35:38.240] you know it is for everyone. I think so as well and also you're on Twitter how
[01:35:38.240 -> 01:35:44.360] can we find you on Twitter? Oh goodness Antonia J Rankin. Okay and that is all
[01:35:44.360 -> 01:35:46.400] of those links will be in the show notes below.
[01:35:46.400 -> 01:35:51.920] Of course follow me at Spanners Ready, I'm the best one and if you want to help us push forward
[01:35:51.920 -> 01:35:57.200] with confidence why don't you join what I would say now is a small army of Patreon supporters so
[01:35:57.200 -> 01:36:06.040] patreon.com forward slash missed apex and that will really help us push into 2023. We want to bring you race previews,
[01:36:06.040 -> 01:36:13.100] we want to do our Patreon pub nights, extra Patreon content. We have a plethora of absolutely
[01:36:13.100 -> 01:36:19.160] fantastic special guests to bring you. Obviously, we still, I've got my race review panel, I
[01:36:19.160 -> 01:36:22.640] know who I want on my race reviews, but we've got people coming in all the time that are
[01:36:22.640 -> 01:36:29.840] bringing in specialist topics for those magazine shows where we pre-record segments and put them all together and absolutely
[01:36:29.840 -> 01:36:36.240] top work from Uncle Steve from the Mist Apex broom cupboard bringing some winter content while I was
[01:36:36.240 -> 01:37:19.360] away on my travels. We will see you next Sunday but until then work hard, be kind, and have fun. This was MrApexPodcast. Looking for a fun way to win up to 25 times your money this basketball season?
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