Massa wins 2008!! And other F1 news

Spanners is joined by Video editor extraordinaire Steve Amey and Danish TV journo Kristian "Chaos" Pedersen, in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

**Missed Apex Podcast Episode Summary: "Tall Drivers and F1's Bubble Bursting"**

- **Felipe Massa's Lawsuit:** Felipe Massa is taking legal action, claiming that the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix should have been canceled due to Renault's deliberate crash, which manipulated the race outcome and potentially cost him the championship.

- **Bernie Ecclestone's Involvement:** Bernie Ecclestone's alleged admission of knowledge about the crash has brought attention to the case. However, Ecclestone's recent retraction of this statement complicates the matter.

- **Validity of Massa's Claim:** Legally, Massa may have a case for financial compensation, but changing the race result seems unlikely. Disqualifying Renault and Alonso from the race would not alter the championship outcome.

- **Tarnished Legacy:** The lawsuit tarnishes Massa's legacy as the heroic runner-up in the 2008 championship. His reputation for sportsmanship and fighting spirit is overshadowed by this legal pursuit.

- **Discrimination Against Tall Drivers:** The discussion shifts to the alleged disadvantages faced by tall drivers in Formula 1. Nico Hulkenberg claims that his height cost him the 2013 Ferrari seat.

- **Advantages of Tall Drivers:** The hosts argue that tall drivers have advantages in other areas, such as basketball and management positions, and should not complain about their perceived disadvantages in Formula 1.

- **Focus on Excuses:** Drivers often blame factors other than their driving skills for poor performance. The hosts suggest that tall drivers may use their height as an excuse for their shortcomings.

- **Weight Regulations:** The hosts acknowledge that weight regulations in Formula 1 can affect shorter drivers, who must add ballast to meet the minimum weight requirement.

- **F1 Bubble Bursting:** The podcast observes a decline in the popularity of Formula 1 podcasts, suggesting that the "bubble" of interest in the sport may be deflating.

- **Missed Apex's Commitment:** Despite the decline in popularity, the Missed Apex podcast remains committed to Formula 1 and will continue producing content for its dedicated listeners. # Missed Apex Podcast Episode Summary:

## Verstappen's Dominance and the State of Formula One

- **Physical Challenges for Taller Drivers:**
- Taller drivers face disadvantages in Formula One due to weight restrictions and limited cockpit space.
- Larger drivers may struggle to fit comfortably in the car, affecting their performance.
- There have been discussions about implementing ballast systems to level the playing field for drivers of different sizes.


- **Max Verstappen's Controversial Statements:**
- Verstappen has made comments expressing his frustration with the hectic lifestyle of Formula One and questioning the value of the championship.
- Some fans and pundits have criticized Verstappen for his attitude and lack of appreciation for the sport.
- Verstappen's comments have sparked discussions about the pressures and expectations placed on Formula One drivers.


- **Verstappen's Dominance and Its Impact on Fan Engagement:**
- Verstappen's dominance in recent seasons has led to a decline in fan interest and viewership in some regions.
- Some fans feel that the lack of competition has made Formula One less exciting and unpredictable.
- Experts suggest that the dominance of a single team or driver can lead to a decrease in casual viewership.


- **Verstappen's Relationship with Red Bull:**
- Verstappen's partnership with Red Bull has been successful, with the team winning multiple championships.
- However, some believe that Red Bull's aggressive and controversial approach to racing has negatively influenced Verstappen's image.
- Verstappen has hinted at the possibility of leaving Red Bull if the team's performance declines.


- **The Need for a Work-Life Balance:**
- Verstappen has expressed his desire for a better work-life balance, emphasizing the importance of time outside of racing.
- Some argue that Verstappen's comments reflect a broader trend among younger athletes who prioritize personal well-being and life experiences.
- Balancing the demands of a Formula One career with personal life can be challenging, and drivers may need to make sacrifices in order to succeed.


- **The Impact of Verstappen's Dominance on Formula One's Popularity:**
- Verstappen's dominance has led to a decline in viewership and fan engagement in some regions.
- Experts believe that the lack of competition and predictability has contributed to this decline.
- Formula One may need to address the issue of dominance to maintain fan interest and grow the sport globally.


- **Formula One's Future and the Need for Change:**
- The dominance of a single team or driver can have a negative impact on Formula One's popularity and long-term health.
- Experts suggest that rule changes and other measures may be necessary to promote closer competition and create a more exciting and unpredictable sport.
- Formula One needs to find ways to engage new fans and maintain the interest of existing ones in order to ensure the sport's continued success. # Missed Apex Podcast: Episode Summary

### Introduction:

* The podcast episode features Spanners, Video editor extraordinaire Steve Amey, and Danish TV journo Kristian "Chaos" Pedersen.
* The hosts discuss the recently concluded Formula One season and its impact on viewership and fan engagement.

### Key Points:

1. **Audience Numbers and Engagement:**
- Formula One has experienced a significant increase in viewership and engagement in recent years, largely attributed to the popularity of the Netflix series "Drive to Survive."
- However, there are concerns that the recent dominance of Red Bull and Max Verstappen may be leading to a decline in interest among viewers.
- The hosts note that the figures for Formula One cannot continue to rise indefinitely and that a challenger is needed to create excitement and intrigue.

2. **Impact of "Drive to Survive":**
- The Netflix series "Drive to Survive" is credited with introducing Formula One to a large new audience, particularly in the United States.
- Many new fans were attracted to the sport due to the engaging storytelling and behind-the-scenes insights provided by the series.
- However, the hosts express concern that many of these new fans may not be true Formula One enthusiasts and may lose interest as the novelty wears off.

3. **Red Bull Dominance and Its Consequences:**
- The dominance of Red Bull and Max Verstappen in the 2022 season has led to concerns about the predictability of the sport.
- The hosts discuss whether the current regulations have contributed to Red Bull's dominance and whether changes are needed to promote closer competition.
- They also acknowledge the brilliance of Adrian Newey, Red Bull's Chief Technical Officer, in designing a car that has proven to be superior to the competition.

4. **Missed Opportunity for Growth:**
- The hosts express disappointment that Formula One has not taken full advantage of the opportunity to capture the US market, despite the growing interest in the sport in the region.
- They believe that the current dominance of Red Bull may have hindered the sport's ability to attract new fans and maintain the engagement of existing ones.

5. **Hypothetical Team Change for Max Verstappen:**
- The hosts engage in a hypothetical discussion about which team Max Verstappen should drive for if he were to leave Red Bull.
- They consider various options, including Haas, Williams, and Ferrari, and weigh the pros and cons of each team.

### Conclusion:

* The hosts wrap up the episode by expressing their hope that the upcoming Las Vegas Grand Prix will help revitalize interest in Formula One in the United States.
* They also tease upcoming episodes where they will discuss legal ramifications in the sport, the potential impact of the Las Vegas Grand Prix, and an interview with Mike Caulfield, a former strategist for Haas and Mercedes.

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[00:55.760 -> 01:20.000] fantasy sports made easy. You are listening to missed Apex podcast. We live F1.
[01:20.000 -> 01:25.000] Welcome to missed Apex podcast. I'm your host Richard Ready, but my friends call me Spanners.
[01:25.000 -> 01:32.240] So let's be friends. It's still August. There's no F1. Worst month ever. I have had to spend
[01:32.240 -> 01:39.200] significant time with my children and my wife. The novelty has worn off and I want F1 back.
[01:39.200 -> 01:43.880] It's actually been a relatively slow news cycle. There's been no silly season. There's
[01:43.880 -> 01:46.000] been hardly any transfer rumours,
[01:46.000 -> 01:53.000] perhaps some speculation on where Benotto might pop up and where Alpine might be finally laid to rest.
[01:53.000 -> 02:08.080] But thank goodness that old Felipe baby has amused myself the head of the Masa 2008 Champion Committee
[02:08.080 -> 02:14.160] for Truth and Justice. So we'll explore that. We'll also ask, should tall drivers be at
[02:14.160 -> 02:21.040] a disadvantage? I say yes. Eat the tall, disadvantage them all. And we'll ask, has the F1 bubble
[02:21.040 -> 02:25.600] burst because a lot of the Johnny Come Lately podcasts are starting to flee
[02:25.600 -> 02:31.920] and starting to fade. But the missed Apex band will keep playing until this ship goes down.
[02:31.920 -> 02:37.600] I will also ask quite a few Verstappen bits and bobs in this week's show. Does Verstappen want
[02:37.600 -> 02:47.640] to be here or would he rather be playing the piano? And could Supermax regularly put a Haas on pole? Marco says yes, so you
[02:47.640 -> 02:52.040] know it's true. We are an independent podcast produced in the podcasting shed with the kind
[02:52.040 -> 02:56.400] permission of our better halves. We aim to bring you a race review, eventually when they
[02:56.400 -> 03:04.800] can be bothered to race, before your Monday morning commute. We might be wrong, but we're
[03:04.800 -> 03:07.520] first.
[03:07.520 -> 03:12.120] I'm joined by nearly my oldest available panel, Christian Pedersen.
[03:12.120 -> 03:14.120] How's it going, Christian?
[03:14.120 -> 03:15.120] Am I the...
[03:15.120 -> 03:16.680] I'm the third oldest, right?
[03:16.680 -> 03:17.680] I'm 52.
[03:17.680 -> 03:23.440] Oh, in that case, yeah, you're the third oldest behind Matt Trumpets and Uncle Steve.
[03:23.440 -> 03:25.840] Which brings us to the second panelist.
[03:25.840 -> 03:30.720] Exactly, the oldest available panelist, which is fine, we like your wisdom Uncle
[03:30.720 -> 03:34.960] Steve, thanks for joining us. Well you're foolish aren't you, wisdom I don't have
[03:34.960 -> 03:39.080] any of that. And the thing is as well like I unfortunately I'm the fourth
[03:39.080 -> 03:46.560] oldest available panelist and at 42, 43 next week, I still think of myself as quite sprightly and young
[03:46.560 -> 03:53.600] and if 40, like when Jules joins and he's the same age, I think of Jules as an old guy but it's
[03:53.600 -> 03:59.040] happening. Time is munching on us all but thankfully this panel has enough age and experience to be
[03:59.040 -> 04:06.400] able to look back to the 2008 season which is going to be our first news story. And I watched quite a lot of 2008
[04:06.400 -> 04:11.840] footage. Christian, it really was, I was watching it today and I was looking at those cars,
[04:11.840 -> 04:16.960] you know, jumping around. I'm always like a little bit of a cheerleader, even for modern F1. I think
[04:16.960 -> 04:27.200] we do have good racing or the potential for good racing in modern F1. But those cars, minimal aero, grooved tires, there was something special
[04:27.200 -> 04:30.240] about that era, 2008 time.
[04:30.240 -> 04:39.720] I think if you look back at 2008, it was also like the culmination of, I wouldn't say time,
[04:39.720 -> 04:46.080] but a wait for a large group of Formula One fans, it was the post-Schumacher era.
[04:46.080 -> 04:51.840] And we've had one challenging him, which was Alonso. And Alonso had signed for McLaren
[04:52.640 -> 04:56.960] the year before this, which was the big fallout with Hamilton and stuff.
[04:56.960 -> 05:06.480] So 2008 was sort of a, I wouldn't say like a restart, but sort of in a way, because suddenly Hamilton and Alonso
[05:06.480 -> 05:12.960] was in different cars and Hamilton had his chance. And it was still like the great sounding engines,
[05:12.960 -> 05:19.120] the cars looked amazing. And we had rain at the right races and it was just a very,
[05:19.120 -> 05:24.640] very strong Formula One season. It was. And I think this is a season where it bears kind of
[05:24.640 -> 05:25.440] looking back on. I
[05:25.440 -> 05:30.640] had a really good time looking back on that old footage and reminding myself of key moments. And
[05:30.640 -> 05:36.720] the Singapore 2008 Grand Prix is the one we're focusing on now, because Fernando Alonso ended
[05:36.720 -> 05:42.720] up getting the win by having his teammate, and this was planned all in advance, having his
[05:42.720 -> 05:45.760] teammate crash deliberately to cause a safety car.
[05:45.760 -> 05:52.040] And just before that safety car, they had manufactured the correct pit stop for him
[05:52.040 -> 05:56.360] to take advantage of a safety car that happened at that exact time. But one of the things that
[05:56.360 -> 06:01.880] that jumped out at me, Steve, was this was a kind of a desperate Fernando Alonso. He was
[06:01.880 -> 06:05.280] basically driving a Renault when he could have been driving
[06:05.920 -> 06:10.720] the car that eventually won the world championship. So seeing his press conference afterwards,
[06:11.440 -> 06:16.800] knowing what we know now, it was a little sheepish and the whole thing I think just
[06:17.360 -> 06:30.120] it felt like a bit silly. It's like, oh, you must be feeling silly right now. He should have been feeling fairly silly.
[06:30.120 -> 06:33.040] He said that he didn't know anything about later on.
[06:33.040 -> 06:37.040] He said that he didn't know anything about the plan to crash the car into the wall, but
[06:37.040 -> 06:39.040] I called BS on that.
[06:39.040 -> 06:45.000] He knew well and truly. And it was planned by Briatore in order to, you know,
[06:45.000 -> 06:54.240] get Alonzo and Renault into a winning position. And it was the
[06:54.760 -> 06:59.360] single race, I was a big Alonzo fan up until that point, from
[06:59.360 -> 07:02.560] the day he started racing in Menardi, in the days when Paul
[07:02.560 -> 07:05.480] Stoddard owned Menardi and Paul Stoddard's an Australian.
[07:05.480 -> 07:12.480] So I was very heavily, very heavily an Alonzo man and that race came along and I've disliked
[07:12.480 -> 07:17.480] the fellow ever since because, you know, that is not the way, you know, racing should be
[07:17.480 -> 07:18.800] partaken.
[07:18.800 -> 07:21.920] And of course, Briatore, I never liked particularly at all.
[07:21.920 -> 07:26.800] So that, that just kind of amplified the reasons why I didn't like him.
[07:26.800 -> 07:32.400] So no one came out of this, this good, Christian, like Briatore ended up with an indefinite
[07:32.400 -> 07:36.600] ban and who was the other engineer that got a five-year ban out of this?
[07:36.600 -> 07:37.600] Pat Fry?
[07:37.600 -> 07:38.600] No, no, was it Pat Fry?
[07:38.600 -> 07:39.600] Oh no, the other Pat, no, Pat Simmons.
[07:39.600 -> 07:40.600] Yeah, Pat Simmons.
[07:40.600 -> 07:41.600] Pat Simmons, sorry, sorry, yeah.
[07:41.600 -> 07:44.920] Okay, yeah, yeah, got a five-year ban.
[07:44.920 -> 07:47.080] So, you know, I was doing a bit of research into this
[07:47.080 -> 07:50.360] and actually the race media did a brilliant summary
[07:50.360 -> 07:55.360] of what was the motivation for this travesty.
[07:55.760 -> 07:57.680] And basically, Renault had been told,
[07:57.680 -> 08:00.480] or the upper management had said to Flavio Briatore,
[08:00.480 -> 08:03.440] if we don't get a win this year, we might pull the plug.
[08:03.440 -> 08:08.000] And basically that put massive pressure on them. And so when they turned up and they went, oh, hang on, we have
[08:08.000 -> 08:12.700] got a bit of pace here, actually. How can we take advantage of it? And as was reported
[08:12.700 -> 08:18.380] by the race, one of the senior engineers sort of half joked saying, well, you know, if we
[08:18.380 -> 08:22.800] had a well-timed safety car, we could bump him up the grid. And they decided to go ahead
[08:22.800 -> 08:29.920] and do that. But it also speaks to something I've been banging on about with Renault for ages, which is the parent company
[08:29.920 -> 08:36.160] never seems fully committed to modern F1. It always feels like there's some Derek in
[08:36.160 -> 08:40.200] Renault that is going, hey, I think we can do an F1 project. I think we can do these
[08:40.200 -> 08:47.280] things and just give us time. So it was Cyril Abitabul doing that in the post-Lotus period
[08:47.280 -> 08:51.040] at Endstone, saying, yeah, we've got the five-year plan. And then obviously, then
[08:51.840 -> 08:55.920] Renault sort of disappear and go, no, no, no, it's actually, it's Alpine, it's Alpine.
[08:55.920 -> 09:02.240] But even back then, Christian, it was still very hands-off. It was still very, you need to prove
[09:02.240 -> 09:05.000] that you can wash your face or we're going to pull the plug.
[09:05.000 -> 09:08.000] There's two elements to that, I think.
[09:08.000 -> 09:12.000] One is Renault as a race team.
[09:12.000 -> 09:18.000] You can just take Ottmar's recent comments that, for instance, let's take Mercedes.
[09:18.000 -> 09:25.760] If they want to hire a guy, a girl, someone new, they go through their HR channels, which is in-house,
[09:25.760 -> 09:30.240] and everything is sorted out. If they want to do that at Renault or Alpine,
[09:30.240 -> 09:37.360] they have to go to HR at Renault, back at the motherland. And that is just, you can't work like
[09:37.360 -> 09:42.480] that, especially not in an environment like Formula 1. And apparently it looks like that is just the
[09:42.480 -> 09:45.820] case with this team and still is somehow.
[09:45.820 -> 09:49.660] But I would also argue that it takes a Brea Tora
[09:49.660 -> 09:53.600] to make Alonso do these.
[09:53.600 -> 09:56.700] I think he's capable of doing these things all the time,
[09:56.700 -> 10:00.380] but he needs a Flavio to be able to communicate
[10:00.380 -> 10:01.700] to the world basically.
[10:01.700 -> 10:05.840] So that teaming is, I think, poison to Formula 1.
[10:05.840 -> 10:09.680] So you've got Alonso like a cheetah-holic. He's there going like,
[10:09.680 -> 10:14.080] no, I don't need to cheat today. Do you know what? I'm going to go a few days without cheating.
[10:14.080 -> 10:18.240] But then you've got Briatore going, oh, go on, just have one cheat down the pub with the lads.
[10:18.240 -> 10:20.640] And then before you know it, he's gorging on cheating.
[10:21.520 -> 10:25.320] He's not a cheater. I wouldn't call Alonso a cheater. Sorry, Steve.
[10:25.320 -> 10:28.560] But you probably have another argument here.
[10:28.560 -> 10:29.880] But I wouldn't call him a cheater.
[10:29.880 -> 10:35.200] I would say he's prone to do what it takes to win.
[10:35.200 -> 10:40.080] If he's not a cheater, why the hell is Brea Torre still his manager?
[10:40.080 -> 10:42.640] Yeah, that is a very strange fact.
[10:42.640 -> 10:43.680] And you know what?
[10:43.680 -> 10:46.720] Actually, he's also still the manager of Mark Webber, isn't he? If Mark still drives. Yes, that is a very strange fact. And you know what, actually, he's also still the manager of Mark Webber, isn't he?
[10:46.720 -> 10:48.080] If Mark still drives.
[10:48.080 -> 10:48.720] Yes, he is.
[10:49.280 -> 10:56.960] And he's managing other racing talents, and he's sort of like the only leftover from the Bernie era.
[10:58.240 -> 11:00.400] I thought that he got banned for life.
[11:00.400 -> 11:01.920] How come he's back into the business?
[11:01.920 -> 11:03.120] Well, it wasn't a ban for life.
[11:03.120 -> 11:04.640] It was an indefinite ban.
[11:04.640 -> 11:08.640] So I think they've sort of tried to brush it under the carpet and you see him
[11:08.640 -> 11:13.920] popping up on the grid now and then talking to people. And I have to say, every time the microphone
[11:13.920 -> 11:18.320] is pointed at him in the pit lane or whatever, you go, what? Why are we speaking to him?
[11:19.040 -> 11:26.640] And there are photos of him having dinner with T you know the rest of them stroll and whatever else he pops
[11:26.640 -> 11:33.680] up. I just don't understand why he has such you know cachet with the Formula One fraternity.
[11:33.680 -> 11:38.320] Okay well before we start clutching our pearls I think there's a deeper issue which is
[11:38.320 -> 11:46.480] this is a one of the few times where you see a conspiracy and it gets then later confirmed. So there's lots of things
[11:46.480 -> 11:52.880] where we get accused of a mad conspiracy theory, tinfoil hat, and if it had never been admitted,
[11:52.880 -> 11:56.960] if it had never been, because it was Nelson Piquet Jr who crashed on purpose causing the safety car,
[11:56.960 -> 12:01.760] that I think outed it, I don't know his motivation, but he outed it and declared it to the world,
[12:02.400 -> 12:05.600] if he hadn't have done that and I had been here going,
[12:05.600 -> 12:10.760] I reckon that's dodgy. I reckon if we'd have had a podcast then, if I'd have said, I reckon
[12:10.760 -> 12:14.480] they did that on purpose, the timing was perfect. In fact, here's what I would have said. I'd
[12:14.480 -> 12:20.340] have said, I'm not saying Nelson Piquet Jr. crashed on purpose, but if you wanted to benefit
[12:20.340 -> 12:25.460] the Renault number one driver in the most extreme way, that is exactly how you
[12:25.460 -> 12:27.200] would have done it.
[12:27.200 -> 12:29.800] People would have said, I'm nuts, Christian.
[12:29.800 -> 12:34.200] They would have been calling me a crazy tinfoil hat merchant.
[12:34.200 -> 12:41.760] I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think I remember from the vibe going on in Formula
[12:41.760 -> 12:45.600] One, already during the race, even before the race was over.
[12:45.600 -> 12:54.760] Everyone was like, no, we all know that can't just be a coincidence that he pits
[12:54.760 -> 13:00.280] and then everyone knew it and everyone knew with these people that they were
[13:00.280 -> 13:05.080] probably right, but could they prove it? That is the nature of Formula
[13:05.080 -> 13:09.080] One, isn't it? Somehow. I'm not saying I'm liking it or supporting it. I think
[13:09.080 -> 13:14.360] it's awful. And I think they got what they deserved, or they didn't get all
[13:14.360 -> 13:18.680] they deserved. But they cheat where they can to win.
[13:18.680 -> 13:23.400] A lot of people cheat. And Wes is saying that Nelson Piquet Jr. Hello, our live
[13:23.400 -> 13:25.360] chat, our patron live chat, by the way,
[13:25.360 -> 13:27.740] patreon.com forward slash Missed Apex,
[13:27.740 -> 13:28.580] thanks for supporting us.
[13:28.580 -> 13:33.000] Wes says, Nelson Piquet got sacked from Reno,
[13:33.000 -> 13:34.520] and that's why he came public.
[13:34.520 -> 13:36.520] And that's the problem with conspiracies.
[13:36.520 -> 13:39.200] And that's why most conspiracies fall apart,
[13:39.200 -> 13:42.120] because you're always gonna irritate something.
[13:42.120 -> 13:46.400] And the podcast I was listening to earlier,
[13:46.400 -> 13:48.000] Skeptic's Guide to the Universe said,
[13:48.000 -> 13:51.140] if you can't fit all your conspirators in one room,
[13:51.140 -> 13:52.520] then it's not going to work.
[13:52.520 -> 13:54.920] But even in this relatively small room,
[13:54.920 -> 13:57.720] you know, Nelson Piquet Jr. was the leak.
[13:57.720 -> 14:00.320] So we find ourselves in a situation
[14:00.320 -> 14:02.320] where this is probably one of the worst cases
[14:02.320 -> 14:05.040] of deliberate cheating that we can confirm.
[14:05.040 -> 14:09.920] Well, there's been plenty of deliberate cheating over the years.
[14:09.920 -> 14:14.800] Yeah, but I'm talking about one that we can say absolutely, this definitely was confirmed,
[14:15.520 -> 14:16.480] verified cheating.
[14:17.200 -> 14:22.000] Well, yes, there have been some others too, but it was certainly one of the most blatant.
[14:22.000 -> 14:25.800] Yeah, yeah. And actually, if you look at the crash,
[14:25.800 -> 14:27.120] you know, Christian, you were saying
[14:27.120 -> 14:29.200] that everyone thought it was dodgy at the time.
[14:29.200 -> 14:30.680] If you look at the replay,
[14:30.680 -> 14:33.160] I've never looked at the replay with the fresh eyes
[14:33.160 -> 14:35.720] of now knowing it was admittedly deliberate.
[14:35.720 -> 14:37.880] He comes around the left-hander,
[14:37.880 -> 14:42.140] I think intending to hit the wall on the right, and misses.
[14:42.140 -> 14:47.720] And you can see that he then spins up the throttle to make sure that he then goes into the left-hand
[14:47.720 -> 14:48.720] side.
[14:48.720 -> 14:49.720] It's incredible.
[14:49.720 -> 14:55.200] You look back at it now and you go, oh, wow, no, there's no other reason to do that.
[14:55.200 -> 15:02.160] I'm pretty sure he did the exact same mistake the year after, or was it someone else who
[15:02.160 -> 15:05.400] crashed the exact same way the year after?
[15:05.400 -> 15:08.600] You're not thinking of periods of Monaco, are you?
[15:08.600 -> 15:16.080] No, this was in Singapore on the exact same place, but which can differ the opinion that
[15:16.080 -> 15:18.740] it wasn't a real crash.
[15:18.740 -> 15:21.120] But I reckon Spanis is right.
[15:21.120 -> 15:30.960] If you look at it from the perspective of knowing he's told to crash. Yeah, it's hard to unsee it. So have a look at the viewpoint like head on, so that he's coming out of
[15:30.960 -> 15:36.400] the corner and you can see the nose of the car as it comes in. Like it's hilarious in a way,
[15:36.400 -> 15:42.960] but it's also pretty tragic because he claims that he was put under pressure, like it was implied he
[15:42.960 -> 15:45.200] might lose his drive if he didn't do it
[15:45.280 -> 15:47.280] But he's like his whole rear quarter
[15:47.800 -> 15:51.080] Sails into that wall pretty hard and he was fine
[15:51.080 -> 15:52.320] He was completely fine
[15:52.320 -> 15:58.800] But you're you're trusting a lot to the lap of the gods at that point anytime you deliberately throw an f1 car into the wall
[15:59.160 -> 16:02.840] You're risking serious injury so number one. Thank goodness
[16:02.840 -> 16:06.040] You know he he got away with that, if you like,
[16:06.040 -> 16:12.640] and that the penalty was only later on and more technical rather than mortal. But where
[16:12.640 -> 16:18.560] this now intersects modern F1 news is Felipe Massa claims that if that hadn't have happened...
[16:18.560 -> 16:27.720] In fact, let's read the lawyer's statement here. Felipe Massa's lawyer says, We have had enough information in time to investigate this matter.
[16:27.720 -> 16:32.120] According to the statutes, we should have cancelled the race in Singapore under these
[16:32.120 -> 16:36.920] conditions. That means it would never have happened in regards to the World Cup standings.
[16:36.920 -> 16:42.040] Then Felipe Massa would become world champion and not Lewis Hamilton.
[16:42.040 -> 16:46.480] This has come about because there was an interview around a year ago where
[16:46.480 -> 16:53.200] Bernie Eccleston had said, well, we, it was reported to have said, we knew at the time
[16:53.200 -> 16:59.440] that that had been done and we kept it quiet. And this seems to be why the legal case is going
[16:59.440 -> 17:06.720] forward. So as I said, I am, I'm, I'm championing Felipe Massa's cause. That race was an absolute shambles.
[17:06.720 -> 17:11.400] We've established it, Steve. You and I, we've just had a conversation where we have established
[17:11.400 -> 17:15.520] that that race was a shambles. The whole race should be cancelled and no points awarded.
[17:15.520 -> 17:19.560] And therefore, Felipe Massa is the 2008 World Champion.
[17:19.560 -> 17:30.120] Yes, but let's at least look at it from the start. A little earlier, this came about with an interview with Bernie in March.
[17:30.620 -> 17:34.880] And then this week, Bernie says he can't remember having given
[17:34.880 -> 17:38.400] that interview. So Your Honour, if Mr. Eccleston can't remember
[17:38.400 -> 17:41.080] an interview from March of this year, how can he remember
[17:41.080 -> 17:53.120] anything that went on in 2008? So, put to you, your honour, that Mr. Eccleston is wrong in his recollection of knowing about
[17:53.120 -> 17:54.120] that.
[17:54.120 -> 17:58.500] Certainly, if the whole case revolves around Bernie Eccleston going, that's right, I did
[17:58.500 -> 18:04.180] say that to that outlet, and I'm going to stand here in court and say that, that doesn't
[18:04.180 -> 18:09.480] seem to be a path that is available to them. Because Eccleston is purely going, well, I don't know.
[18:09.480 -> 18:10.480] I don't know.
[18:10.480 -> 18:16.520] I mean, the other thing is that Eccleston may have more skin in this game.
[18:16.520 -> 18:20.840] I don't think it's any secret that he's a bit miffed at the way he's been treated by
[18:20.840 -> 18:26.720] Liberty, you know, after they took over and he has a reputation for
[18:26.720 -> 18:30.040] liking to make inflammatory statements from time to time.
[18:30.040 -> 18:32.800] So it may be just another instance of that.
[18:32.800 -> 18:35.720] Bernie Eccleston though, he is an absolute chaos merchant.
[18:35.720 -> 18:38.960] He is one of these, you interview him, you put a microphone in front of him and he'll
[18:38.960 -> 18:41.280] say whatever he reckons at the time.
[18:41.280 -> 18:42.680] I don't think it's always malicious.
[18:42.680 -> 18:44.040] I don't think he's always lying.
[18:44.040 -> 18:49.000] I think he's just very happy to give a stream of consciousness of what he happens
[18:49.000 -> 18:54.260] to be thinking. And then if you go, okay, will you now say that in court under oath?
[18:54.260 -> 18:57.480] That focuses the mind a little bit, Christian.
[18:57.480 -> 19:11.000] Sounds like the F1's Rudolph Giuliani. I hope I'm not being too political here, but I would say I don't think Philippe Massa would
[19:11.000 -> 19:19.360] go public with a case like this unless he has some ground to base the lawsuit on.
[19:19.360 -> 19:25.920] And when we're talking legal matters, things are not as they are in the real world always.
[19:25.920 -> 19:34.840] So what I read into this is he's looking for financial benefit here.
[19:34.840 -> 19:40.440] He's looking for a way to win without having the championship awarded to him because he's
[19:40.440 -> 19:49.080] not going to change the history books. But what he could do is he could possibly argue that if the sporting
[19:49.080 -> 19:54.880] regulatory body knew about this and didn't act in a matter that is according
[19:54.880 -> 20:01.720] to the rules, yada, yada, yada, they prohibited him from making an earning,
[20:01.720 -> 20:02.920] et cetera.
[20:04.120 -> 20:09.280] I think legally you could make that case if you have the right evidence, of course, and
[20:09.280 -> 20:14.280] a Bernie Egglestone interview saying stuff like that and some rumors about Max Mosley
[20:14.280 -> 20:20.760] and Bernie knowing about it back in the days and all sorts of things could possibly end
[20:20.760 -> 20:25.840] in Masa getting a financial winning here.
[20:25.840 -> 20:28.320] And that wouldn't change the history books though.
[20:28.320 -> 20:36.760] But if that happens, he will have the last word of him actually winning, or at least
[20:36.760 -> 20:38.480] being considered the winner.
[20:38.480 -> 20:41.400] And I think this is what it's all about, isn't it?
[20:41.400 -> 20:46.320] Yeah, even if they say, well, we can't change the result, but we get what you're going for here.
[20:46.320 -> 20:47.480] Here's $10 million.
[20:48.520 -> 20:51.640] That's gonna be enough for the fan base
[20:51.640 -> 20:53.000] for everyone on Twitter to go,
[20:53.000 -> 20:54.960] see, he's the rightful champion.
[20:54.960 -> 20:55.800] See, Steve?
[20:55.800 -> 20:57.800] And I think he is.
[20:59.440 -> 21:02.200] Well, I mean, I can only say that
[21:02.200 -> 21:04.880] the financial side of it
[21:04.880 -> 21:08.000] can be the only reason that he's doing
[21:08.000 -> 21:09.000] this.
[21:09.000 -> 21:11.680] I don't think that he really has a leg to stand on.
[21:11.680 -> 21:15.840] I'd like to know who the lawyers are that are advising him.
[21:15.840 -> 21:21.840] My initial thought was perhaps his lawyers are in fact the cast off lawyers from a certain
[21:21.840 -> 21:26.400] ex US president. And they've moved to Brazil.
[21:26.400 -> 21:28.000] You guys are not helping me at all here.
[21:28.000 -> 21:30.840] We are a politically neutral outlet,
[21:30.840 -> 21:33.500] unless you pay any attention
[21:33.500 -> 21:35.520] to our social media whatsoever.
[21:35.520 -> 21:37.720] But look, Matt Trump is not here today,
[21:37.720 -> 21:39.920] but he's done a lot of great work in the notes.
[21:39.920 -> 21:43.800] And he's actually done a lot of research for us here.
[21:43.800 -> 21:47.440] And he has said that in 2008 the International
[21:47.440 -> 21:54.440] Sporting Code 151C, yeah this is how good Matt is at stuff like this, so according to
[21:54.440 -> 22:00.320] the International Sporting Code at the time, the penalty for fraudulent conduct or an act
[22:00.320 -> 22:07.720] prejudicial to the competition has a stated list of penalties and they include a reprimand,
[22:07.720 -> 22:17.360] fines, time penalty, exclusion from the event, suspension from F1 or disqualification as well.
[22:17.360 -> 22:26.160] So the stewards would be limited to penalties in that sporting regulation from 2008. There's no provision for the event to be
[22:26.160 -> 22:32.000] cancelled. And so the maths goes, if Fernando Alonso is disqualified from that event,
[22:32.560 -> 22:38.800] and Renauld is disqualified, then he doesn't get the 10 points for the win. Rosberg wins that race,
[22:38.800 -> 22:44.480] Lewis Hamilton is promoted to second, and Felipe Massa is promoted from 13th to 12th,
[22:44.480 -> 22:45.800] and still doesn't score
[22:45.800 -> 22:51.160] points. And so in the normal course of events, even if you decided to ban Renault from that
[22:51.160 -> 22:57.760] event, and in fact, Matt's done the maths, if you ban Renault from every event in 2008,
[22:57.760 -> 23:05.000] it doesn't change the outcome. The only outcome that can possibly change it is for the Singapore Grand Prix as a whole
[23:05.000 -> 23:11.280] to be completely cancelled. And there's no precedent for a race being cancelled, Steve,
[23:11.280 -> 23:17.280] but there is plenty of precedent for people who are cheating being disqualified. So like
[23:17.280 -> 23:23.120] Schumacher hitting Villeneuve in 97, he got all his championship points removed. They
[23:23.120 -> 23:25.600] didn't cancel the event in which he cheated.
[23:25.600 -> 23:27.200] No, that's quite true.
[23:27.200 -> 23:31.800] And I think in this case, if you're going to, you know,
[23:31.800 -> 23:34.400] bring about some sort of reprimand for Wattendon,
[23:34.400 -> 23:37.800] then the only course of action to them would be to
[23:37.800 -> 23:43.000] disqualify Renault and Alonso, the whole team, from that particular race.
[23:43.000 -> 23:49.600] And the truth is, and again, this comes from Matt, that if you, if they did that,
[23:50.000 -> 23:54.200] then the change in points would actually see Hamilton end up with an
[23:54.200 -> 23:56.080] extra point at the end of the year.
[23:56.080 -> 24:04.080] So, um, masses, you know, kind of argument that if, if, uh, if we take
[24:04.080 -> 24:08.240] into account what happened at Singapore and get rid of them, then I think
[24:08.240 -> 24:15.280] I would be the winner of the race, you know, because I will get more points at the end
[24:15.280 -> 24:16.280] of the year.
[24:16.280 -> 24:19.760] He only lost by one point, I think, at the end of the year.
[24:19.760 -> 24:28.400] So I think it's kind of, there is no avenue for him to be able to claim that he could win the championship.
[24:28.400 -> 24:34.560] I don't think so either. And the thing is, it gets sadder when, and I mean this, sadder,
[24:34.560 -> 24:41.280] I genuinely mean, I feel like this lawsuit is sad, and it's actually tarnishing what he'd left
[24:41.280 -> 24:45.000] behind as a pretty good legacy in 2008.
[24:45.160 -> 24:48.160] He fought valiantly in 2008.
[24:48.160 -> 24:52.040] He gave absolutely everything for his career,
[24:52.040 -> 24:54.120] his country, his team.
[24:54.120 -> 24:58.000] And if you remember the scenes in Interlagos,
[24:58.000 -> 25:00.320] when Hamilton clinched that title,
[25:00.320 -> 25:02.360] Massa was, if that's a movie,
[25:02.360 -> 25:04.340] Massa's the hero of that movie.
[25:04.340 -> 25:06.000] Hamilton's basically getting booed.
[25:06.000 -> 25:12.000] It's shocking. The Brazilian fans love Hamilton now, but then they were all over him.
[25:12.000 -> 25:21.000] Massa is on the podium, pumping his chest, seeing himself as kind of this fallen hero, a victor in all but the points.
[25:21.000 -> 25:26.880] And people were proud of him for that. But now people are shining
[25:26.880 -> 25:33.320] a spotlight in that 2008 season and you can easily point at a bunch of stuff like Ferrari
[25:33.320 -> 25:39.480] were not doing well with pit stops. That sounds familiar, doesn't it? Ferrari were not doing
[25:39.480 -> 25:50.120] well with safely releasing after pit stops. They weren't doing particularly well with their fuel rig. Massa had thrown away result after result due to poor driving.
[25:50.120 -> 25:55.400] Well, Christian, 2008 at Silverstone where Hamilton was masterful in the
[25:55.400 -> 26:00.200] rain, I mean you could look at that and you could say for that race alone, look
[26:00.200 -> 26:03.760] at your own performance and don't try and say that you should now 15 years
[26:03.760 -> 26:05.840] later be declared world champion.
[26:07.000 -> 26:12.160] I think you can go into minute details when it comes to Formula 1, especially.
[26:12.160 -> 26:12.440] Right.
[26:12.520 -> 26:12.720] Yeah.
[26:13.000 -> 26:18.280] And for all the reasons Steve just talked about and what's in our notes,
[26:18.280 -> 26:24.280] and there's all these scenarios if we did this and that, I think there's a reason
[26:24.280 -> 26:25.680] why we never go into this kind of talking in sports, because if let did this and that, I think there's a reason why we never go into this
[26:25.680 -> 26:32.200] kind of talking in sports. Because if let's just say that offside didn't count. You can't
[26:32.200 -> 26:38.200] say that, right? So that is why all this is a little bit sad. Also, because of the reasons
[26:38.200 -> 26:47.920] you talked about, the Spanners, Massa was actually the hero of 2008. And when he quit, even the second time he quit,
[26:47.920 -> 26:49.760] everyone was applauding him and stuff.
[26:50.400 -> 26:52.920] He's a great guy and was a great racer.
[26:53.160 -> 26:58.200] This does nothing good for him, even if he wins a couple of dollars, I think.
[26:58.280 -> 27:01.440] And he's not going to win the thing he hopes to win.
[27:01.680 -> 27:06.320] Felipe, baby, we all love you, but maybe it's time to let it go.
[27:11.200 -> 27:17.680] All right, should tall drivers be discriminated against? I think yes, we should definitely,
[27:17.680 -> 27:23.680] I know some people say eat the rich, I say eat the tall, you tall people, you have basketball.
[27:23.680 -> 27:28.920] When I play basketball, and I do love, I love basketball, I'm half Filipino, and for a nation
[27:28.920 -> 27:35.520] whose average male height is about 5'2", I think, why basketball is the national sport,
[27:35.520 -> 27:40.480] I don't know why, but Filipinos, they love their basketball, it's a national tragedy,
[27:40.480 -> 27:42.800] but they don't play with a shorter hoop.
[27:42.800 -> 27:45.240] No one gives Filipinos a bigger bucket or a ladder
[27:45.920 -> 27:51.880] To play basketball, but I see time and time again whenever you go down the go-kart track people say oh, it's not fair
[27:51.880 -> 27:58.840] I'm tall. I'm like a big sail. Oh my height adds adds weight to the car and therefore I'm heavier
[27:58.840 -> 28:03.860] I'm like no you've got basketball and being overly represented in management positions
[28:03.920 -> 28:05.120] Go do that.
[28:05.120 -> 28:07.040] Tall people have a lot of advantages.
[28:07.040 -> 28:09.440] Leave motorsport for us, Christian.
[28:09.440 -> 28:10.880] Leave motorsport for us.
[28:10.880 -> 28:13.360] I don't think they're being fair to gravity.
[28:13.360 -> 28:18.960] It's just come down here, basically, is how I'm feeling about it.
[28:18.960 -> 28:23.200] And what's up with all the concerts where you stand there tall and having a blast?
[28:23.200 -> 28:23.680] Exactly.
[28:23.680 -> 28:28.640] You people have got, the tall people, you've got gigs where your view is never blocked.
[28:28.640 -> 28:33.440] You're a problem in the cinema. You're not suffering in the cinema. But it's Nico Hulkenberg,
[28:33.440 -> 28:39.640] Christian, that says, being six foot tall cost me the 2013 Ferrari seat. I never got
[28:39.640 -> 28:43.960] a response where they said, I'm sorry, we turned you down because you're too tall. But
[28:43.960 -> 28:49.200] I'm pretty sure this hindered me because back then, before 2019, there was packaging issues, less space,
[28:49.760 -> 28:56.320] more weight, and that was reported in motorsport.com. But that's a serious issue for some
[28:56.320 -> 29:01.840] drivers on the grid. And not just that, Christian, but also in their junior career.
[29:02.800 -> 29:09.320] Maybe in their junior career. I mean, we have all tried that karting experience at the Poledarm, or whatever
[29:09.320 -> 29:16.240] it's called in English, where you go to the karting track and you're the tallest
[29:16.240 -> 29:19.160] or the heaviest and you lose and you blame it all on your weight.
[29:19.560 -> 29:26.000] And I think that Hulkenberg is a little bit of this here because what racing drivers are masters at,
[29:26.000 -> 29:31.000] even from the get-go and until they basically leave Earth,
[29:31.000 -> 29:37.000] is blaming something else than their actual driving on why they didn't win.
[29:37.000 -> 29:45.920] If you're a little bit taller, you're always going to pinpoint, yeah, but you know, I'm six foot two. So, you know, but we have this, nowadays,
[29:45.920 -> 29:49.640] we shouldn't escape this fact that nowadays,
[29:49.640 -> 29:54.080] the seat and the driver has to weigh 80 kilos.
[29:54.080 -> 29:56.920] So if you're like a Sonoda and you're,
[29:56.920 -> 29:59.080] I think he's 54 kilograms,
[30:00.000 -> 30:02.280] you have to put a lot of balance into the seat.
[30:02.280 -> 30:03.440] 63, I think Sonoda is.
[30:03.440 -> 30:04.280] He's 63.
[30:04.280 -> 30:05.100] I think so. I'll double check that. I thought it was a little low, but the seat. 63, I think Snowda is. He's 63. I think so.
[30:05.100 -> 30:07.480] I read 54 and I thought it was a little low,
[30:07.480 -> 30:09.600] but it sounded good, so I said it anyways.
[30:09.600 -> 30:10.920] So I did look that up earlier.
[30:10.920 -> 30:13.660] So I do actually have everyone's weight and height in here.
[30:13.660 -> 30:16.520] So Snowda, oh no, you're right, you're right, sorry.
[30:16.520 -> 30:21.520] 54 kilograms, I'd missed that as the outlier at 1.59 meters.
[30:22.240 -> 30:24.160] So obviously in his junior karting career,
[30:24.160 -> 30:26.320] that would have been an advantage. But I
[30:26.320 -> 30:32.640] love what you're saying about everyone looking for excuses because even as I'm 170, so I'm probably
[30:32.640 -> 30:41.040] like the ideal height for karting, but I have relatively short arms and I'm like a T-Rex.
[30:41.040 -> 30:46.600] So when I get into the kart, you can adjust your seating position. And Brad was
[30:46.600 -> 30:49.800] teaching me, Brad Philpott was teaching me that, like, okay, if you prefer more, you
[30:49.800 -> 30:55.360] know, understeer, which I do, I prefer kind of getting my work done earlier in the corner,
[30:55.360 -> 30:59.480] you move your seat to the rear, and that's a bit more of a stable understeery car, you
[30:59.480 -> 31:03.560] move your weight forward in the seat, and you can generate a bit more oversteer. But
[31:03.560 -> 31:06.800] my arms will only reach on the most forward section.
[31:06.800 -> 31:07.960] So I always have that excuse,
[31:08.160 -> 31:12.120] it's like I can only put my bum forward because that's the only seat position
[31:12.120 -> 31:13.480] where I can reach the steering wheel.
[31:13.680 -> 31:17.200] Therefore, I have to have an oversteery cart where I don't want one.
[31:17.400 -> 31:21.240] Generally, I do feel like if you're a bigger driver, yes,
[31:21.440 -> 31:26.000] you are going to be disadvantaged somewhat in your career, but motorsport is
[31:26.000 -> 31:32.920] inherently a medium by which you are going to be doing better if you're small. So I don't
[31:32.920 -> 31:38.820] think anyone argues that a jockey should carry extra ballast. Why, Steve? Why should you
[31:38.820 -> 31:42.360] tall people be pitied when it comes to motorsport?
[31:42.360 -> 31:49.760] I don't know whether we should be pitied, but we should be included. And I think you've got to look and see that these days we have
[31:49.760 -> 31:55.040] more tallish drivers than we've ever had before. I mean, you know, back in the 90s,
[31:55.040 -> 31:59.920] if you were anything taller than about five foot six, you just didn't get into a car.
[32:00.880 -> 32:08.000] We've got Albon, Hulkenberg, George Russell, who else is a tally?
[32:08.000 -> 32:11.000] Okay, well I can tell you actually if you want.
[32:11.000 -> 32:12.000] Gasly?
[32:12.000 -> 32:13.000] No, Gasly's not.
[32:13.000 -> 32:19.000] So Gasly and Hamilton fall into a category of drivers who have a lot of muscle content.
[32:19.000 -> 32:27.480] So actually, Hamilton and Gasly are two of the heavier drivers on the grid at 73kg. But the interesting
[32:27.480 -> 32:34.700] thing I was looking at was Lando Norris is the same height as me, yet he has 11kg lighter.
[32:34.700 -> 32:40.440] So I look at myself and I go, yes, that's right, I'm not lean, I'm not a marathon runner
[32:40.440 -> 32:46.000] when I look in the mirror in the morning, but I'm not, I'm strong enough, I'm not particularly unhealthy,
[32:46.000 -> 32:50.160] but to lose 10 kilograms, I'd have to lose a lot of fat,
[32:50.160 -> 32:51.960] but also I would have to limit
[32:51.960 -> 32:53.720] what muscle I could have as well.
[32:53.720 -> 32:55.060] I'd have to go back in time
[32:55.060 -> 32:57.520] and make sure I didn't thicken out by doing silly things
[32:57.520 -> 33:00.680] like yomping around hills with heavy weights.
[33:00.680 -> 33:03.960] So these guys have to stay super, super lean.
[33:03.960 -> 33:07.040] And if you look at George Russell, who's one of the tallest
[33:07.040 -> 33:09.640] drivers on the grid, I can't remember if we listed the tall
[33:09.640 -> 33:15.460] drivers, but it's Ocon, Russell, Hulkenberg, Sargent, and there's
[33:15.460 -> 33:18.400] another one over six foot, but it's escaping me at the moment.
[33:18.600 -> 33:22.680] Those guys are having to stay mega, mega lean, Christian, to
[33:22.680 -> 33:29.440] stay in race driver trim. Like a normal six foot guy isn't generally, even in most sports,
[33:29.440 -> 33:45.440] a normal six foot guy isn't going to come in at 73 kilogram. If you sign up now for three months, you get three months free on every one of our plans, even unlimited.
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[35:01.900 -> 35:15.560] PrizePix, daily fantasy sports made easy. It's a little bit like talking about basketball players.
[35:15.560 -> 35:19.680] It's unfair for tiny people in basketball, basically.
[35:19.680 -> 35:26.400] I think every sport will have a certain type of human that fits it best.
[35:26.400 -> 35:28.760] A certain type of human.
[35:28.760 -> 35:33.120] I'm not seeing Formula 1 as excluding.
[35:33.120 -> 35:37.080] I think the 80 kilograms solution is pretty good.
[35:37.080 -> 35:41.360] But of course, if you're two meters high, you're going to be at a big disadvantage if
[35:41.360 -> 35:50.080] you want to go car racing, right? But there will be other options for you that maybe where you're better prepared
[35:50.240 -> 35:55.840] physically. I'm not actually seeing it as a... I remember it for myself.
[35:55.840 -> 36:01.760] I used to cart with a good friend who's like 12, 13, 14 kilograms lighter than me,
[36:02.240 -> 36:07.760] and he was always quicker. I was like, yeah, that's because the
[36:07.760 -> 36:14.080] weight. But then when we got the ballast on for the races, he was still much faster than me.
[36:17.840 -> 36:26.640] I actually think racing is quite well prepared for that to a certain degree. So I don't see it as a problem. We did try that at Missed Apex.
[36:26.640 -> 36:33.040] We did try just making Brad carry weight to equalize it, and it didn't make a
[36:33.040 -> 36:33.800] difference in the end.
[36:33.800 -> 36:35.120] He still beat everyone.
[36:36.000 -> 36:36.560] Exactly.
[36:37.040 -> 36:43.400] But being Hulkenberg probably isn't the easiest because the mechanics, you will
[36:43.400 -> 36:45.040] be hearing things like,
[36:50.240 -> 36:53.680] yeah, but there's not room for that because your legs and Sonora won't be hearing that. They will just move him around the car like a little teddy bear.
[36:55.040 -> 37:00.560] The drivers that are over six foot are Albon, Russell, Ocon, Hulk, and Sargent.
[37:00.560 -> 37:05.260] When you look at Hulkenberg, the difference is Hulkenberg has more of a physique along
[37:05.260 -> 37:11.400] the lines of Hamilton and Gasoli, whereas Albon, Russell and Ocon are much more slender,
[37:11.400 -> 37:12.400] if you like.
[37:12.400 -> 37:17.800] Obviously, George Russell, he loves his Instagram, and you can see he's very toned and very trim.
[37:17.800 -> 37:23.560] But Hulkenberg is probably the most normal shaped of those drivers.
[37:23.560 -> 37:30.600] So you can probably tell that he's... But even if you look at Russell, look at how high he sits in the car compared to Hamilton,
[37:30.600 -> 37:31.640] for instance.
[37:31.640 -> 37:34.360] And that is not just because he wants to be a little bit higher.
[37:34.360 -> 37:40.200] That is, you want to be as low as possible, but he probably is at the limit at where his
[37:40.200 -> 37:41.200] head can go.
[37:41.200 -> 37:45.520] And I think that's a little bit limiting from a racing perspective as well. So
[37:46.080 -> 37:50.480] of course, there will be disadvantages. Good. And for that, I'm glad.
[37:54.720 -> 37:58.560] Okay, Steve, are you a fan of Mr. Verstappen?
[38:03.320 -> 38:03.560] Um, I think he's an excellent driver.
[38:12.200 -> 38:19.280] Um, I'm not, I'm not a fan of, uh, his attitude or, you know, his lack of understanding that, uh, racing has some rules and, and, uh, attitude that
[38:20.240 -> 38:21.920] needs to be bought to the game.
[38:22.500 -> 38:25.040] Um, I think he's an incredible driver.
[38:25.040 -> 38:26.520] I wish he drove for another team.
[38:26.520 -> 38:28.760] I think it would be much more healthy for him.
[38:29.280 -> 38:30.080] That's interesting.
[38:30.080 -> 38:33.520] So you think of a Vestappen that was at McLaren would be a different Vestappen?
[38:34.080 -> 38:35.240] Oh, a totally different.
[38:35.640 -> 38:42.040] I think that he has been, um, um, you know, I think there are things that
[38:42.040 -> 38:45.280] Red Bull bring, you know, have forced upon him,
[38:45.280 -> 38:49.920] attitudes and things like that, that aren't healthy. And I think that in another team,
[38:49.920 -> 38:52.160] he would be a different person and a different driver.
[38:52.160 -> 38:56.720] So the reason I'm asking you this, guys, is because Verstappen is continuing his
[38:56.720 -> 39:06.600] his his sort of mission to let everybody know that at any minute he could quit F1. So this is on Autosport's website and he says,
[39:06.600 -> 39:09.200] the headline is,
[39:09.200 -> 39:12.600] Verstappen sometimes questions if hectic F1 lifestyle
[39:12.600 -> 39:14.000] is still worth it.
[39:14.000 -> 39:16.000] Formula One world champion Max Verstappen says
[39:16.000 -> 39:18.600] he sometimes wonders if the championship's relentless
[39:18.600 -> 39:22.400] time commitment is still worth it amid criticisms
[39:22.400 -> 39:28.220] on its expanding schedule. And I do wonder, if you're a fan
[39:28.220 -> 39:32.960] of Max Verstappen, how does that come across to you, that he would rather be playing the
[39:32.960 -> 39:41.060] piano? Or, as he says, it doesn't leave a lot of time for other things. So as a well-travelled
[39:41.060 -> 39:46.320] gentleman who's had to do jobs, I mean I've had a job. Christian, have you had a job?
[39:46.320 -> 39:47.920] Have you jobbed before?
[39:47.920 -> 39:49.160] You've jobbed before.
[39:49.160 -> 39:50.200] Steve's jobbed before.
[39:50.200 -> 39:51.800] Can you spell it?
[39:51.800 -> 39:53.560] Yeah, oh no, to be fair, Christian,
[39:53.560 -> 39:57.880] you were a radio DJ and Ibiza international superstar DJ.
[39:57.880 -> 39:59.560] So you probably- Is that a job?
[39:59.560 -> 40:02.320] You probably don't know what a job is either,
[40:02.320 -> 40:04.720] but he is describing a job.
[40:04.720 -> 40:07.600] It takes up a lot of time and I can't do all the stuff I want to do.
[40:08.440 -> 40:11.840] I just want to say, I've never heard anyone say what Steve just said,
[40:11.880 -> 40:16.680] because that is my philosophy 100% as well, but I'll get back to that.
[40:18.400 -> 40:23.160] I think it's a little bit difficult being Max Verstappen,
[40:23.200 -> 40:25.500] even though he has it so easy up front.
[40:25.500 -> 40:29.000] From a racing perspective, he can do whatever he wants.
[40:29.000 -> 40:34.000] He's doing a world-class job, and he has been for years, basically.
[40:34.000 -> 40:38.000] But I'm not sure he totally understands
[40:38.000 -> 40:43.500] why the world is not just applauding him from A to Z,
[40:43.500 -> 40:46.640] because some places he gets booed and stuff like that.
[40:46.640 -> 40:52.160] And I think that must mess a little bit with the head of a championship leader.
[40:52.160 -> 40:56.960] If people boo you and you haven't done anything wrong, and he basically hasn't done anything
[40:56.960 -> 41:02.800] wrong this year. He's done everything right. He's not even been racing hardly on anyone.
[41:02.800 -> 41:05.680] He's been taking his time because he's got the car, he can
[41:05.680 -> 41:06.760] just do whatever he wants.
[41:07.160 -> 41:10.080] I'll just take him to the next corner kind of philosophy.
[41:10.480 -> 41:17.920] So you can't really put a finger on his 23 season, but doing that and still
[41:17.920 -> 41:20.680] getting booed, I think that will mess with your head somehow.
[41:20.680 -> 41:24.920] That's a really good point, Christian, because he's been a delight this year.
[41:25.040 -> 41:30.560] He's been personable. He's been on track. He hasn't done any of the things that Steve was
[41:30.560 -> 41:37.520] talking about, which is completely fair in 2021 and before that. So he's been a gentleman racer.
[41:37.520 -> 41:47.040] He's been charming on the grid, on his live streams. He looks a very personable family man. So he's done everything
[41:47.040 -> 41:51.760] right. And then he turns up and not only is he booed, but you see media reports where people
[41:51.760 -> 41:58.160] are saying he's ruining F1. And you go, well, I'm not doing anything. I'm driving as well as I can.
[41:58.160 -> 42:02.800] I'm being polite. I'm sticking to all the rules. You criticised me when I was shoving people off
[42:02.800 -> 42:07.680] track. I'm not shoving people off track anymore. You criticized me when I was, uh, you know, being outspoken while
[42:07.680 -> 42:09.040] I'm not being outspoken anymore.
[42:09.360 -> 42:11.020] What, what more can I do?
[42:11.240 -> 42:14.240] And yet he's never been less popular in a way.
[42:14.480 -> 42:14.840] Steve?
[42:15.360 -> 42:20.960] Well, you've got to call into, um, you know, account, um,
[42:21.480 -> 42:22.760] some of the things that he says.
[42:24.140 -> 42:26.920] I don't think that he is a particularly committed racing driver.
[42:27.360 -> 42:32.200] Um, he said during the week, and this was, this was quoted in motorsport week
[42:32.520 -> 42:36.920] that he would rather stay at home than race in the F1 midfield.
[42:37.000 -> 42:37.480] Yes.
[42:37.480 -> 42:41.000] Now, if every, if every racing driver had that attitude, we wouldn't
[42:41.000 -> 42:42.960] have a formula one competition.
[42:43.440 -> 42:45.520] Not everybody can win all the time.
[42:46.080 -> 42:52.720] And, you know, any realistic racing driver will know that, sure, he might be able to win,
[42:53.440 -> 42:58.640] you know, during periods, but it's terribly unrealistic to expect that
[42:59.920 -> 43:03.600] I can win. If I'm a driver, I can win every race all the time.
[43:03.600 -> 43:08.200] So that is actually one of the key things from that interview, which is saying, well,
[43:08.200 -> 43:13.920] I would, if Red Bull was to drop the ball and not be racing, you know, would he stay
[43:13.920 -> 43:14.920] with Red Bull?
[43:14.920 -> 43:20.040] Would he consider, it was a loaded question, would he consider leaving or not finishing
[43:20.040 -> 43:21.040] his contract?
[43:21.040 -> 43:23.800] And he said, well, yeah, it would take a lot for that to happen because Red Bull's pretty
[43:23.800 -> 43:28.480] brilliant, but I would rather stay at home than have three years in the midfield.
[43:29.040 -> 43:34.080] You know, that's interesting. Like, is that okay? Like, is that allowed, Christian? Like,
[43:34.800 -> 43:38.240] I mean, people don't like to lose. So what he's basically said is,
[43:38.240 -> 43:42.400] I don't want to keep turning up and losing. That kind of feels fair.
[43:42.680 -> 43:44.680] losing, that kind of feels fair.
[43:52.160 -> 43:52.760] Maybe sometimes you get a little bit carried away with the results of things you're saying.
[43:52.760 -> 43:57.320] So when you're a public figure like Max Verstappen or all the other Formula
[43:57.320 -> 44:02.520] One drivers for that matter, when you drop a ball somewhere and you see how
[44:02.520 -> 44:08.720] the world reacts to it, how the media reacts to it, you sort of get a sense of where is your playing area.
[44:10.560 -> 44:14.280] At this point in time, we have a lot of Formula One drivers who are very
[44:14.280 -> 44:19.240] capable of communicating themselves and branding themselves, and in that
[44:19.240 -> 44:24.160] environment, I think maybe he's a little bit disadvantaged.
[44:25.480 -> 44:30.780] He was looking very good when partnering with Ricciardo, but I think he feels a little bit
[44:30.780 -> 44:33.700] alone in that respect.
[44:33.700 -> 44:39.240] During the last couple of years, he's had headlines from saying stuff like, well, I
[44:39.240 -> 44:45.400] don't care, distancing himself from Formula One in some ways.
[44:45.400 -> 44:49.040] And a lot of his fan groups have been supporting that.
[44:49.040 -> 44:50.840] Yeah, he can do whatever he wants.
[44:50.840 -> 44:54.640] And I think he's being misled a little bit by the reactions
[44:54.640 -> 44:56.440] he got from saying stuff like that.
[44:56.440 -> 44:58.920] I don't think, I don't know, Max Verstappen at all,
[44:59.720 -> 45:03.480] but what I'm seeing is a guy who's so dedicated to his craft
[45:03.480 -> 45:07.680] and he's so brilliantly showing us how it's done these days.
[45:08.400 -> 45:09.760] He should be celebrated.
[45:09.760 -> 45:18.440] He should be in an environment where he feels celebrated and where he feels happy about what he's accomplishing these days.
[45:18.840 -> 45:19.340] Yeah.
[45:19.440 -> 45:19.940] Yes.
[45:19.940 -> 45:23.520] And yeah, so he doesn't seem to be getting that satisfaction.
[45:23.520 -> 45:29.800] And I've said this a few times, Steve. He does seem like one of the unhappiest F1 champions, as in
[45:29.800 -> 45:33.840] most people, when they're having that period of domination, they're bullish and they're
[45:33.840 -> 45:38.320] really kind of all over it. And they feel like they're owning that space. Whereas really
[45:38.320 -> 45:47.220] since 2021, all we've heard from Verstappen with regards to the future is, ah, I don't know. I'd like to do other things.
[45:47.220 -> 45:50.600] But to be fair to him, if you're in your 20s
[45:50.600 -> 45:53.220] and you've had a job where you're away all the time,
[45:53.220 -> 45:56.800] he hasn't had a chance to have just a normal life at home.
[45:56.800 -> 45:59.720] He has extended family, he has a partner,
[45:59.720 -> 46:01.040] there's children in his life,
[46:01.040 -> 46:05.000] and he's never had just the chance to just chill.
[46:05.000 -> 46:09.000] No, but he's had the chance to earn how many hundreds of millions of dollars?
[46:09.000 -> 46:10.000] True.
[46:10.000 -> 46:14.000] I mean, you can't have everything in life, you know, exactly as you want it.
[46:14.000 -> 46:16.000] Why not? Why can't I?
[46:16.000 -> 46:18.000] Life isn't like that.
[46:18.000 -> 46:24.000] I'm not begrudging the fact that he has paid a lot of money to do what he does very well,
[46:24.000 -> 46:27.000] but you've got to give a little bit back.
[46:27.520 -> 46:33.720] If, if he wants to be lauded as, you know, the great champion driver that he is,
[46:34.080 -> 46:40.680] then he should be aware that, you know, he is given that epitaph, um, by the fans
[46:40.680 -> 46:44.640] because they like him and he's got to be engaged with them.
[46:44.640 -> 46:49.720] He can't just say, look, you know, I'm here, I'll, I'll race until I'm winning
[46:50.160 -> 46:51.320] and earning lots of money.
[46:51.320 -> 46:55.600] As soon as the team I'm with can't win a race, then I'm going to rip off
[46:55.600 -> 47:01.840] and go and do something else, you know, raise ducks or become a farmer or whatever.
[47:03.840 -> 47:04.440] Sorry, Brad.
[47:04.520 -> 47:09.120] Well, the old, um, the football manager thing was, you know, I'm going to retire and open a pub.
[47:09.120 -> 47:12.640] That used to be the old thing in the 90s. But I think it's worth noting,
[47:12.640 -> 47:17.120] Max Verstappen doesn't owe us anything. I think what you're talking about is winning hearts and
[47:17.120 -> 47:23.360] minds. And like, it's a big assumption that he cares about that or should care about that.
[47:24.080 -> 47:26.560] Of course, he should care about it it because it's, you know,
[47:26.560 -> 47:29.520] he's where he is and doing very well at it,
[47:29.520 -> 47:32.240] partly because, well, he's a good driver,
[47:32.240 -> 47:35.120] but he has a big fan base too.
[47:35.120 -> 47:39.160] And they're very vocal and, you know, very outspoken.
[47:40.360 -> 47:41.200] I know.
[47:41.200 -> 47:44.240] And you know, more than most people.
[47:44.240 -> 47:45.280] But I think that he should, you know, he should be a little aware of that I know. I know more than most people.
[47:45.280 -> 47:50.320] I think that he should be a little aware of that and not just come out and say, look,
[47:50.320 -> 47:52.240] I don't care anymore.
[47:52.240 -> 47:55.560] How is that doing his fan base any good at all?
[47:55.560 -> 47:59.640] The thing is he certainly still cares about racing.
[47:59.640 -> 48:04.680] He's setting up a GT3 team, I think, will start from 2024.
[48:04.680 -> 48:06.940] He's very serious about his sim racing.
[48:06.940 -> 48:11.660] So it's not because he's not a driver at heart or doesn't
[48:11.700 -> 48:13.400] burn for the sport anymore.
[48:13.400 -> 48:18.180] I think it has to do with Formula One just being the beast it is.
[48:18.240 -> 48:21.480] And by saying that, I mean, it's not just racing.
[48:21.520 -> 48:27.840] Formula One is maybe 35% racing during a race weekend for the drivers.
[48:28.480 -> 48:35.360] A lot of other stuff happens. When you have that on your shoulders of the 21 Abu Dhabi,
[48:35.360 -> 48:38.960] I know we're not going to mention it. No, let's revisit all in detail.
[48:40.160 -> 48:46.400] You have all this baggage on your shoulder. I think it can get a bit, I don't know,
[48:46.800 -> 48:49.800] maybe just taking you in a direction you shouldn't go.
[48:49.960 -> 48:53.840] He should basically have a fresh team for Max Verstappen.
[48:53.840 -> 48:58.400] Maybe in a different series would open his heart to racing.
[48:58.400 -> 49:02.200] Okay, so I did catch this over the weekend,
[49:02.200 -> 49:05.200] but I can't remember, apologies, I can't remember where this quote came from,
[49:05.200 -> 49:10.880] but he said, I would race for Mercedes, but they race differently to Red Bull. If I could change
[49:10.880 -> 49:19.200] a few things, then I would race for Mercedes. And it's hard not to infer that Mercedes generally
[49:19.200 -> 49:29.280] kind of have a broadly equal driver package, even if I feel like they've been more in favour of Hamilton
[49:29.280 -> 49:37.400] over the years, you know, it's a broadly equal status team. Whereas Helmut Marko has specifically
[49:37.400 -> 49:42.840] said we wouldn't have Lewis Hamilton with Verstappen because you need a number one and
[49:42.840 -> 49:47.400] a number two. So he's saying that out loud, this is how Red Bull do it. And Verstappen because you need a number one and a number two. So he's saying that out loud, this is how Red Bull do it.
[49:47.600 -> 49:51.360] And Verstappen is kind of going, well, I would race for Mercedes, but I think
[49:51.520 -> 49:54.600] they would have to do things the way we do things for me.
[49:54.960 -> 49:59.120] In fact, the quote was, Christian, it was, if they want me enough, they would
[49:59.120 -> 50:01.280] adapt to how I would want the team to be.
[50:02.400 -> 50:06.640] It was Mercedes who had their championship taken away, right?
[50:06.640 -> 50:07.520] By Red Bull.
[50:07.520 -> 50:10.120] And it's still Red Bull all the time
[50:10.120 -> 50:12.200] talking about Mercedes this and that.
[50:12.200 -> 50:15.160] I mean, I don't get it.
[50:15.160 -> 50:17.600] What's so important about Mercedes
[50:17.600 -> 50:21.440] from a Red Bull perspective that you have to constantly say
[50:21.440 -> 50:22.800] something bad about them?
[50:22.800 -> 50:23.800] No, that's interesting.
[50:23.800 -> 50:24.320] I totally don't understand.
[50:24.320 -> 50:25.600] Do you know what? No, it's really interesting
[50:25.600 -> 50:26.960] because you have to remember though,
[50:26.960 -> 50:31.360] that they basically, this current Red Bull team
[50:31.360 -> 50:34.320] and the whole of Verstappen's career
[50:34.320 -> 50:38.120] was in the shadow of a dominant Mercedes Death Star.
[50:38.120 -> 50:41.280] So for me growing up, Schumacher and Red Bull
[50:41.280 -> 50:43.920] and Ferrari were the Death Star.
[50:43.920 -> 50:46.640] And I would have taken like any champion.
[50:46.640 -> 50:48.240] Maybe that's why I like Alonso,
[50:48.240 -> 50:50.160] because I really can't understand why I do.
[50:50.160 -> 50:54.000] Every time an Alonso topic comes up, I'm criticizing him.
[50:54.000 -> 50:56.080] But then I go, yeah, but I'm an Alonso fan
[50:56.080 -> 50:57.840] because he was the person that came in
[50:57.840 -> 51:00.800] and gave us hope against Fernando Alonso.
[51:00.800 -> 51:03.920] So I think a lot of the current era of F1
[51:03.920 -> 51:09.360] is in context of F1 context of Mercedes dominating F1.
[51:09.360 -> 51:15.520] So when you hear a lot of these comments, you know, even though he is now in the mothership,
[51:15.520 -> 51:21.040] he is now in the Death Star, there's almost an imposter syndrome where you have to keep referring
[51:21.040 -> 51:26.920] to Mercedes and the big tree that cast a shadow over them for
[51:26.920 -> 51:27.920] all those years.
[51:27.920 -> 51:36.760] Well, I'll agree with that. I think that part of the problem with Red Bull and the team's
[51:36.760 -> 51:50.040] attitude is they've fallen into a kind of an area where they think the only way they're going to be able to beat Mercedes and control
[51:50.040 -> 51:56.480] Mercedes, that sort of thing in the competition is to go about
[51:56.480 -> 52:02.320] it in a what's the right word? They're going to do anything and
[52:02.320 -> 52:05.040] everything they possibly can, whether it's considered
[52:05.040 -> 52:11.520] kosher, whether it's considered a nice way to go about it.
[52:11.520 -> 52:16.040] And I think that arises from a basic insecurity that comes from the team.
[52:16.040 -> 52:21.400] And I think that's part of what I was talking about, that they have infected Max with perhaps
[52:21.400 -> 52:25.920] a wrong set of values and a wrong set of ways to do things.
[52:26.480 -> 52:31.040] I actually think that the Mercedes domination has left a scar on a lot of the teams. So
[52:31.680 -> 52:38.640] when Mercedes were dominating in 2014, 2015 particularly, they felt, you almost sensed
[52:38.640 -> 52:44.480] an embarrassment about how far ahead they were and they were almost holding up upgrades. I don't
[52:44.480 -> 52:45.600] think that's, I think that's an open
[52:45.600 -> 52:51.840] secret that they were holding some upgrades back because they didn't want to show how far they were
[52:51.840 -> 52:58.080] ahead. And then there was the odd instance like Bahrain 2024 that we talked about last week,
[52:58.080 -> 53:03.280] where suddenly Rosberg and Hamilton were head to head, and they had no choice but to show their
[53:03.280 -> 53:05.600] full pace. And all of Mercedes went,
[53:05.600 -> 53:10.720] oh, that's kind of, that's given the game away a little bit. But I think Mercedes, they knew
[53:11.440 -> 53:18.240] for those three years that they were in this very unique position where they were dominating F1 and
[53:18.240 -> 53:26.240] they felt a bit of responsibility to kind of protect F1 from their own dominance, because they didn't have
[53:26.240 -> 53:32.360] the scarring of a mothership, of a Death Star before them. I think Red Bull now don't feel
[53:32.360 -> 53:38.320] that sense of responsibility, because they still feel like they are the underdog, they're
[53:38.320 -> 53:44.200] still a bit aggrieved by the Mercedes domination, and I think they still see themselves as an
[53:44.200 -> 53:45.800] underdog, whereas the rest of the world is seeing them as the Death domination. And I think they still see themselves as an underdog, whereas the rest of the
[53:45.800 -> 53:48.360] world is seeing them as the Death Star.
[53:49.240 -> 53:57.680] But you can't be an underdog after 21 and after 22 with the car scap thing and
[53:57.920 -> 53:59.600] now have a car that's so much fun.
[54:00.040 -> 54:02.360] Those things can't work together.
[54:02.400 -> 54:05.400] You have to accept you are now the Death Star.
[54:05.920 -> 54:10.920] And when you are the Death Star, if you don't want to be perceived as the bad guys,
[54:10.920 -> 54:13.440] then you have to do a whole lot of PR work.
[54:13.880 -> 54:17.320] And that PR work cannot consist of someone saying,
[54:17.760 -> 54:20.960] we don't want Lewis Hamilton or someone saying,
[54:20.960 -> 54:23.200] if I have to go there, I have to change it for my...
[54:23.200 -> 54:25.600] I mean, those things just doesn't work together.
[54:25.600 -> 54:27.200] You have to be a little bit...
[54:27.200 -> 54:29.600] hold yourself back a little bit, I think, at least,
[54:29.600 -> 54:31.800] if you want to build a good reputation.
[54:31.800 -> 54:34.200] But also, it's a sport,
[54:34.200 -> 54:39.000] so I guess it's also part of what it's all about, right?
[54:39.000 -> 54:42.600] Yeah, so I think I'll wrap this up by defending Verstappen,
[54:42.600 -> 54:46.320] because we're sort of asking Max Verstappen
[54:46.320 -> 54:53.000] to fit a mould of F1 champions of the past. And we're asking him to be the F1 champion
[54:53.000 -> 54:58.520] that we would put in a movie version of a textbook F1 champion. And he's not, because
[54:58.520 -> 55:03.080] he's not the same as the champions that have come in the past. He is in his own mould.
[55:03.080 -> 55:05.120] And Lewis Hamilton had the same thing,
[55:05.120 -> 55:12.020] where people expected Lewis Hamilton to be Lord Farquhar of West Sussex, and he wasn't.
[55:12.020 -> 55:16.840] And he came under that criticism. I think Verstappen, again, he's not fitting a mould
[55:16.840 -> 55:23.520] of, you know, a classic driver from yesteryear who doesn't understand a work-life balance.
[55:23.520 -> 55:25.920] And I think basically what he's being criticised
[55:25.920 -> 55:31.440] for at the moment is going, hey, I'd quite like a work-life balance, which is actually
[55:31.440 -> 55:38.600] a pretty uncontroversial thing to say. Well, that might be true. But in that case,
[55:38.600 -> 55:47.600] if you want a work-life balance, Max, go and get a job that gives it to you. You might learn $50 million a year, but you'll have some more time.
[55:48.160 -> 55:49.160] Christian?
[55:49.800 -> 55:54.200] I heard a comment from the new team principal at Alpine,
[55:54.400 -> 56:00.240] and I think Max Verstappen's comment is water, while his is whiskey.
[56:00.880 -> 56:03.360] There will be no impact at all, he said.
[56:03.640 -> 56:16.680] I think that is maybe perhaps the new Red Bull team in communication skills.
[56:16.680 -> 56:21.440] And ending the show and staying with Verstappen dominance a little bit, I will have the last
[56:21.440 -> 56:22.440] news story.
[56:22.440 -> 56:25.360] And I'm sorry if the show is slightly curtailed,
[56:25.360 -> 56:31.200] and you could probably tell on the YouTube by the volumes of sweat and anxiety dripping from me,
[56:31.200 -> 56:36.960] that we have had a number of unexpected technical issues this week. So we're going to give
[56:36.960 -> 56:41.520] ourselves a bit of slack and a bit of time to get these sorted before UK bedtime. But
[56:41.520 -> 56:46.160] sticking with Verstappen's performance, there has been some published
[56:46.160 -> 56:55.040] figures by a journalist called, and I apologize for mispronouncing, Sabyasakshi Biswas. And
[56:55.040 -> 57:05.000] there was a report there that despite maximum efforts, Formula One has lost nearly 650,000, 650 hundred thousand, how do you say that?
[57:05.240 -> 57:08.800] 600 and a half thousand of its American audience
[57:08.800 -> 57:12.440] due to Max Verstappen and its Red Bull domination.
[57:12.440 -> 57:16.520] So I'm a student of F1 popularity stats.
[57:16.520 -> 57:20.200] I'm always tracking it because this project depends on it.
[57:20.200 -> 57:24.960] And what we found is normally, aside from 2021,
[57:24.960 -> 57:27.360] the podcast figures tend to peak around the German
[57:27.360 -> 57:32.800] Grand Prix. And now there's no German Grand Prix, they tend to peak around the Hungarian Grand Prix.
[57:32.800 -> 57:38.640] So it's fairly normal, I think, for F1 fans to enter the season with hope. And once a team or
[57:38.640 -> 57:43.360] a driver starts to dominate, the interest kind of wanes. And it's not like people are going,
[57:43.360 -> 57:47.360] ah, Lewis Hamilton's winning this season, or, oh, Max Verstappen's winning this season,
[57:47.360 -> 57:52.720] I'm not watching anymore. They're just less desperate to consume the F1 content.
[57:52.720 -> 57:58.400] So instead of needing to drink in every single race, they'll catch a race if it's on,
[57:58.400 -> 58:06.000] or they'll catch the podcast if the result kind of pleased them. And I remember being a non-podcaster,
[58:06.000 -> 58:09.000] and when there was a good race,
[58:09.000 -> 58:12.000] I'd be desperate to tune in to an F1 podcast.
[58:12.000 -> 58:15.000] If it was just the same old driver winning again,
[58:15.000 -> 58:18.000] and I'm talking 2013 here with Sebastian Vettel,
[58:18.000 -> 58:20.000] Vettel won by 20 seconds again.
[58:20.000 -> 58:21.000] Yeah, I watched the race,
[58:21.000 -> 58:23.000] but I might not be desperate to consume
[58:23.000 -> 58:26.980] every little bit of content that came after it.
[58:26.980 -> 58:33.300] So what we've seen in our stats this season has been a perfectly kind of normal peak up
[58:33.300 -> 58:35.300] to the middle of the European season.
[58:35.300 -> 58:39.380] And then it starts to die down as people go, well, you know, the competition is over.
[58:39.380 -> 58:45.440] Therefore, you know, we don't have to absorb every kind of fiber of Formula One content.
[58:45.440 -> 58:53.120] 2021 was absolutely the exception, and I think Formula One was looking for that kind of result.
[58:53.120 -> 59:00.400] I think Formula One did things to, I don't want to say manufacture, but they didn't discourage
[59:00.400 -> 59:07.680] and they didn't try to not make it so that the Mercedes would be kind of slightly pulled back,
[59:07.680 -> 59:13.840] and they got the result they wanted. But now, 2022, the Ferrari challenge failed to emerge.
[59:13.840 -> 59:20.240] 2023, Mercedes and Ferrari have, despite having solved porpoising, Mercedes haven't been able to
[59:20.240 -> 59:26.440] get up to the front, and Ferrari have really not even matched their 2022 level of
[59:26.440 -> 59:32.080] competition, there is now a dominance. And that's not rare. Hamilton was doing that in
[59:32.080 -> 59:38.900] 2019 and 2020. The difference is this time that they're throwing away the massive peak
[59:38.900 -> 59:46.560] in audience, the massive rush of goodwill and interest from a huge American audience. So you have to
[59:46.560 -> 59:53.560] wonder, are F1 sitting there and thinking, oh we we've let this go on too long, this
[59:53.560 -> 59:57.240] time we've messed up. Like Christian, it is perfectly normal for teams to
[59:57.240 -> 01:00:02.680] dominate in Formula One, but never before has a period of domination wasted such a
[01:00:02.680 -> 01:00:08.600] potential audience. I think we are in a never-before time for Formula One.
[01:00:08.600 -> 01:00:13.760] And I think we can, if we should stay within the Netflix narrative,
[01:00:13.760 -> 01:00:19.120] let's take a Netflix perspective and look at the series they did,
[01:00:19.120 -> 01:00:20.360] Stranger Things.
[01:00:20.360 -> 01:00:24.760] When Stranger Things was released, everything exploded.
[01:00:24.760 -> 01:00:26.560] It was House of Cards
[01:00:26.560 -> 01:00:32.160] that launched Netflix, but Stranger Things did an amazing job for the youth and stuff like that on
[01:00:32.160 -> 01:00:39.040] Netflix, where Formula One experienced the same thing on Netflix. It's like a second part of
[01:00:39.680 -> 01:00:50.280] the world who suddenly joins in. When you see an uptick like that, you will always get like a fade out, like a decline
[01:00:50.280 -> 01:00:51.280] will follow.
[01:00:51.280 -> 01:00:53.180] That's just inevitable.
[01:00:53.180 -> 01:01:04.880] And when I read figures like 25% slow or decline, but yet an uptick in rural areas in the States,
[01:01:04.880 -> 01:01:06.800] that sounds very healthy to me.
[01:01:06.800 -> 01:01:13.900] You would expect that 20, 25% downtake after such a high like 21.
[01:01:13.900 -> 01:01:20.040] And even seeing the team that was supposed to channel a challenge, the winner from 21
[01:01:20.040 -> 01:01:23.000] was Mercedes, and they didn't do anything either.
[01:01:23.000 -> 01:01:27.840] So you basically had a non-season 22.
[01:01:27.840 -> 01:01:32.760] This is still very good numbers from that perspective, I think.
[01:01:32.760 -> 01:01:40.360] And also, I would say, when we have a year like this, what it leads into is an extreme
[01:01:40.360 -> 01:01:42.880] buildup to 24.
[01:01:42.880 -> 01:01:44.460] We want to see the challenger.
[01:01:44.460 -> 01:01:48.800] Maybe we won't have a challenger, but we all know it starts even before the season ends.
[01:01:48.800 -> 01:01:53.360] So I'm seeing good numbers and I can see Steve is eager to comment.
[01:01:55.120 -> 01:01:56.800] Well, I happen to agree with you.
[01:01:57.440 -> 01:01:58.000] Boring.
[01:01:58.000 -> 01:02:06.920] I've spent all of my life involved in television and media and been involved in lots of programs where rate,
[01:02:06.920 -> 01:02:10.280] you know, we each week we sat and waited for the ratings
[01:02:10.280 -> 01:02:13.080] to come in, you know, so that we could gauge
[01:02:13.080 -> 01:02:14.860] whether we'd be doing the right thing.
[01:02:14.860 -> 01:02:18.640] Inevitably, you will get a rise in ratings.
[01:02:18.640 -> 01:02:21.200] It will come to a peak and then it will begin
[01:02:21.200 -> 01:02:23.440] to slowly flatten out.
[01:02:23.440 -> 01:02:26.240] That is just the way the algorithm,
[01:02:26.240 -> 01:02:28.720] you know, the algorithm for audiences work.
[01:02:28.720 -> 01:02:33.200] Now, Formula One has had a big boost in the arm
[01:02:33.200 -> 01:02:37.200] from Netflix, the Drive to Survive series came along
[01:02:37.200 -> 01:02:41.600] and introduced F1 to a huge audience
[01:02:41.600 -> 01:02:45.000] that really knew nothing about it before.
[01:02:45.200 -> 01:02:47.480] And they started to watch and the numbers went up
[01:02:47.480 -> 01:02:49.880] in huge, you know, by huge amounts.
[01:02:49.880 -> 01:02:53.760] And they started going to the races,
[01:02:53.760 -> 01:02:54.960] particularly in America.
[01:02:56.900 -> 01:03:00.240] The unfortunate part about it is that a whole bunch
[01:03:00.240 -> 01:03:03.700] of those people that started watching Formula One
[01:03:03.700 -> 01:03:07.840] through Drive to Surviveive aren't really Formula One
[01:03:07.840 -> 01:03:15.040] fans. They're fans of a new event. If it had been, I mean, look what happened with what was the
[01:03:15.040 -> 01:03:26.720] Korean series where everyone got killed that came out on Netflix. That had a huge audience but it only lasted one season. People will
[01:03:26.720 -> 01:03:31.400] come to Netflix, they got on board with the Drive to Survive
[01:03:31.400 -> 01:03:35.400] and in fact they got on board for about three years which is excellent
[01:03:35.400 -> 01:03:39.320] performance from them. Squid games, by the way, sorry that was killing me.
[01:03:39.320 -> 01:03:43.960] Squid games, that's the one. A lot of the people who started watching
[01:03:43.960 -> 01:03:46.080] during Drive to Survive
[01:03:46.080 -> 01:03:52.160] aren't going to keep watching it because the novelty has begun to wear off. They're now going
[01:03:52.160 -> 01:03:56.960] back and watching what they've been brought up with, football, baseball, you know, those sorts
[01:03:56.960 -> 01:04:02.640] of things, re-engaging with those. We can't expect that the figures for Formula One are going to
[01:04:02.640 -> 01:04:05.160] continue to keep rising and rising
[01:04:05.160 -> 01:04:08.160] ad infinitum. That's just totally unrealistic.
[01:04:08.160 -> 01:04:12.640] Well, I mean, even on this project, Steve, you know, we were obsessed with the stats
[01:04:12.640 -> 01:04:17.320] the show gets. And so what we'll notice is, oh, I'm getting a bit more abuse online. And
[01:04:17.320 -> 01:04:21.340] you go, hang on, let's dig into the stats. And what normally that means is like a bunch
[01:04:21.340 -> 01:04:26.240] of people have found us from like a Reddit post or being promoted on
[01:04:26.240 -> 01:04:31.200] such and such a thing or getting mentioned on something. And so let's say a thousand new people
[01:04:31.200 -> 01:04:37.120] find us. Out of that thousand, like 200 will immediately go, that Spanners guy, oh my God,
[01:04:37.120 -> 01:04:41.680] what a turnip. Like he's annoying. I hate him. I like, I hate him with a vengeance.
[01:04:41.680 -> 01:04:45.920] 50 of them will go, I'm going to write an iTunes review to
[01:04:45.920 -> 01:04:50.480] that effect. Oh, by the way, please leave us an iTunes review if you enjoy what we're
[01:04:50.480 -> 01:04:56.040] doing. But the hope is if we get a spike of a thousand and we can get a hundred people
[01:04:56.040 -> 01:05:01.160] to go, I'm going to subscribe. This is my regular thing that I'm going to listen to
[01:05:01.160 -> 01:05:06.640] now on a Monday. We see that as a win, don't we? So it's not like we don't see the thousand and then go,
[01:05:06.840 -> 01:05:08.560] oh, but we lost 900 of those.
[01:05:09.160 -> 01:05:09.440] Okay.
[01:05:10.760 -> 01:05:13.240] Can I ask a question about the numbers here, Spanish?
[01:05:13.520 -> 01:05:18.680] I mean, you don't have to say how many listens to everything, but haven't
[01:05:18.680 -> 01:05:25.680] the numbers been healthy, inclining all the time for a podcast like this.
[01:05:25.680 -> 01:05:27.160] Oh yeah, and also like,
[01:05:27.160 -> 01:05:29.440] you have to look at our relative chart position as well
[01:05:29.440 -> 01:05:31.120] to see where we are, kind of like,
[01:05:31.120 -> 01:05:33.280] if you look in the Spotify charts,
[01:05:33.280 -> 01:05:35.500] or if you look at the iTunes charts,
[01:05:35.500 -> 01:05:40.240] we're regularly the fourth or fifth highest F1 podcast.
[01:05:40.240 -> 01:05:42.000] And that hasn't changed
[01:05:42.000 -> 01:05:44.140] whether our numbers are going up or down.
[01:05:44.140 -> 01:05:47.200] And I speak to a lot of other F1 podcast content creators,
[01:05:47.200 -> 01:05:49.600] and they all were from the beginning of the season,
[01:05:49.600 -> 01:05:51.360] like maybe four or five races in,
[01:05:51.360 -> 01:05:55.120] they were saying, oh, our numbers are down compared to 2022.
[01:05:55.120 -> 01:05:58.080] We only started seeing a drop at our normal point,
[01:05:58.080 -> 01:06:00.480] kind of post-mid-European season.
[01:06:00.480 -> 01:06:02.800] But so...
[01:06:02.800 -> 01:06:10.560] So are you telling me people would like listening to old men who's not really experts or anything?
[01:06:10.560 -> 01:06:10.960] No, no, no, no.
[01:06:10.960 -> 01:06:12.880] Just talking into mics about Formula One.
[01:06:12.880 -> 01:06:18.080] No, well, I mean, look, if you look at the top podcast in the US, that's the Ringer F1.
[01:06:18.080 -> 01:06:22.960] And that's because they have very good hosts and an amazingly attractive and handsome
[01:06:23.600 -> 01:06:26.280] expert that they bring on. And I said to them,
[01:06:26.280 -> 01:06:31.080] I'm not an expert, but I'm happy to give you my opinions. And that's the most popular podcast
[01:06:31.080 -> 01:06:38.880] in the US. And then the BBC, which is solid, is top in Britain and second or third in the
[01:06:38.880 -> 01:06:45.760] US. The P1 podcast with Matt and Tommy, the XWTF1 guys, is popular across both regions. And
[01:06:45.760 -> 01:06:51.480] then behind those three, it's us and the race media kind of swapping positions. And that's
[01:06:51.480 -> 01:06:55.560] been fairly consistent, whether or not the figures are going up or down. So our relative
[01:06:55.560 -> 01:07:02.760] position is fine. But I think there's hardly anyone at F1 content creators who wouldn't
[01:07:02.760 -> 01:07:05.520] take a Hamilton victory in Zandvoort.
[01:07:05.520 -> 01:07:12.440] Like every F1 commentator, every F1 content creator, every broadcasting platform would take that and say,
[01:07:12.440 -> 01:07:17.960] yes, please, inject that into my veins. Verstappen can win the title, but if he didn't win another race
[01:07:17.960 -> 01:07:25.880] for the rest of the season, we'd be happy. So I think there's no doubt that the domination is going to hurt figures.
[01:07:25.880 -> 01:07:32.600] But will people tune back in next season to see if that's changed? That's the question.
[01:07:32.600 -> 01:07:35.480] And what is the Red Bull trick?
[01:07:35.480 -> 01:07:37.480] What are they doing?
[01:07:37.480 -> 01:07:41.040] Can you answer that, Steve? I mean...
[01:07:41.040 -> 01:07:46.000] Yeah, and if you can, could you tell Mercedes or McLaren?
[01:07:46.000 -> 01:07:51.840] I actually read somewhere that there's some streaks on the new Red Bull floor that is
[01:07:51.840 -> 01:07:58.560] copied from the photo of the Mercedes floor from the Monaco being lifted into the air,
[01:07:58.560 -> 01:08:05.240] which says a lot that if Red Bull even copies a little tiny bit from the Mercedes floor,
[01:08:05.640 -> 01:08:08.320] it says a lot about how Formula One is working, doesn't it?
[01:08:08.720 -> 01:08:12.600] Well, it probably says a lot about the genius of Adrian Newey,
[01:08:12.680 -> 01:08:17.480] that he can take something seen on the bottom of the Mercedes car
[01:08:17.560 -> 01:08:19.680] and then make it work better on the bottom of his.
[01:08:19.840 -> 01:08:24.120] Yes, I'm not sure if it's said enough on this podcast,
[01:08:24.200 -> 01:08:26.640] but Adrian Newey, hats off.
[01:08:26.640 -> 01:08:32.440] It's not the first time he does it. And he does it so well this year, so no one knows
[01:08:32.440 -> 01:08:36.960] how to catch them. And it's, I mean, that is quite amazing.
[01:08:36.960 -> 01:08:39.280] He is an amazing man.
[01:08:39.280 -> 01:08:45.760] Yeah. But all I would say from this is, look, Red Bull deserve the dominance, Max Verstappen deserves
[01:08:45.760 -> 01:08:50.400] these championships, but I think never before have Formula One had an opportunity to capture
[01:08:50.400 -> 01:08:56.660] the US market, which has always been the goal. And Formula One has never really had a problem
[01:08:56.660 -> 01:09:06.400] with making regulations to bring back a dominant team or to try to bring back a dominant team. So it does just feel like a
[01:09:06.400 -> 01:09:11.440] little bit of a missed opportunity. And as a Lewis Hamilton fan, you're obviously,
[01:09:11.440 -> 01:09:15.600] you're more than entitled to say you're only saying that because it's Red Bull domination
[01:09:15.600 -> 01:09:20.960] and you weren't complaining when it was Mercedes domination. No, I wasn't complaining when it was
[01:09:20.960 -> 01:09:25.200] Mercedes domination, but I was at the time expressing sympathy as to why
[01:09:25.200 -> 01:09:32.880] interest might have waned by mid-season. If we want to end up the Max Verstappen domination talk
[01:09:33.440 -> 01:09:38.480] and we were to pick another team on the current grid he should drive for, which one would you pick?
[01:09:41.200 -> 01:09:46.040] Haas. I think he should, I think Haas. I'm going to pick Haas and I'll tell you why, because
[01:09:46.040 -> 01:09:52.440] Helmut Marko says that Max Verstappen would still be putting it on pole if he was driving
[01:09:52.440 -> 01:09:56.560] in a Haas. And I think this speaks to, you know, I was talking earlier about how Mercedes
[01:09:56.560 -> 01:10:01.760] felt a kind of a responsibility or almost an embarrassment at how much they were dominating.
[01:10:01.760 -> 01:10:06.620] Helmut Marko saying that Max Verstappen would put Ahaz regularly on
[01:10:06.620 -> 01:10:11.960] poll, he didn't say regularly but he just meant like on merit, not a freak result, kind
[01:10:11.960 -> 01:10:17.860] of speaks to that they're trying to justify that no, this isn't just some quirk of regulations,
[01:10:17.860 -> 01:10:24.360] we have a dominant driver who's doing something magical and that's why you should enjoy it.
[01:10:24.360 -> 01:10:31.480] What he's saying isn't true, Max Verstappen wouldn't be getting polls on merit. And in fact, I went down and
[01:10:31.480 -> 01:10:37.500] I looked at the most surprising polls in history and in F1 history. And so I'm just trying
[01:10:37.500 -> 01:10:44.600] to scroll up now to find which website I found that helped me out on this. So it was, I will
[01:10:44.600 -> 01:10:46.080] find it in a second, but there was a link.
[01:10:46.080 -> 01:10:48.120] I can add something to it.
[01:10:48.640 -> 01:10:54.840] In fact, I think the quote was in relation to like free
[01:10:55.080 -> 01:10:59.040] qualifying, like in spa where you have wet, dry.
[01:10:59.160 -> 01:11:00.640] Yeah, in changeable conditions.
[01:11:00.680 -> 01:11:01.040] Okay.
[01:11:01.200 -> 01:11:01.480] Yeah.
[01:11:01.480 -> 01:11:05.680] Where he said in conditions like that, where a PR can go second, Verstappen could do pole in a house. Okay. Yeah. Well, he said in conditions like that, where a Piazza can go second,
[01:11:09.600 -> 01:11:15.600] Verstappen could do pole in a house, something like that. So if you look at the website, it's autoevolution.com, and it pointed out the most surprising
[01:11:15.600 -> 01:11:22.160] poles in F1 history. And it's things like Nico Hülkenberg at the 2010 Brazilian Grand Prix.
[01:11:22.160 -> 01:11:25.120] Again, that was changeable conditions. He found himself
[01:11:25.120 -> 01:11:30.080] on the right tire at the right time. Lance Stroll, 2020 Turkish Grand Prix, again, changeable
[01:11:30.080 -> 01:11:37.600] conditions. It was freshly laid tarmac as well. That Grand Prix was never meant to be part of the
[01:11:37.600 -> 01:11:46.320] calendar. Mauro Donato at the Spanish Grand Prix, Sebastian Vettel at Monza in 2008. And actually the only standout I could find
[01:11:46.320 -> 01:11:52.720] where it was a midfield team out of nowhere, not changeable conditions, but just on merit
[01:11:52.720 -> 01:12:01.160] bringing it to a pole was Giancarlo Fisichella in the 2009 Belgium Grand Prix. So these things
[01:12:01.160 -> 01:12:11.600] in F1 are very, very rare, even in changeable conditions. I think the changeable condition with the Giancarlo Fisichella pole was someone,
[01:12:11.600 -> 01:12:15.800] they owed money, who was about to seize all their equipment,
[01:12:15.800 -> 01:12:19.800] so they had to do something to look a little bit better.
[01:12:19.800 -> 01:12:20.800] I'm not sure.
[01:12:20.800 -> 01:12:22.600] I think that was the case.
[01:12:22.600 -> 01:12:24.000] I'm sure it was.
[01:12:24.000 -> 01:12:25.200] Quite possibly.
[01:12:25.360 -> 01:12:29.160] My opinion is, if Max has to go and drive for another team,
[01:12:29.320 -> 01:12:31.240] can he please go and drive for Williams?
[01:12:31.400 -> 01:12:33.200] Oh, yes, that would be nice.
[01:12:33.360 -> 01:12:35.400] It would be bloody lovely to see them
[01:12:35.560 -> 01:12:38.600] with a really hot driver and winning a few races.
[01:12:38.760 -> 01:12:41.800] I think he would look very good in red.
[01:12:41.960 -> 01:12:48.000] I think Ferrari needs Max Verstappen and he needs to show himself in red.
[01:12:48.000 -> 01:12:50.000] That would be lovely, wouldn't it?
[01:12:50.000 -> 01:12:52.000] Do you think they could handle it?
[01:12:52.000 -> 01:12:58.000] I think no, but I also think yes.
[01:12:58.000 -> 01:13:05.480] I think in certain circumstances that could look good, couldn't it? I mean.
[01:13:05.480 -> 01:13:11.400] I, as a Hamilton fan, I would love to see Verstappen have a go at Ferrari.
[01:13:11.400 -> 01:13:16.280] It's high risk, high reward, but this is the chalice of Ferrari, isn't it?
[01:13:16.280 -> 01:13:21.920] If you go to Ferrari as a world champion and then go and win a championship with Ferrari,
[01:13:21.920 -> 01:13:24.480] you look like an absolute legend.
[01:13:24.480 -> 01:13:26.440] Who's done it before? Schumacher,
[01:13:26.440 -> 01:13:30.840] Benetton world champion, goes to Ferrari, brings them glory. How many other drivers
[01:13:30.840 -> 01:13:37.120] have tried to emulate that? Alonso, Vettel, Raikkonen. Who did Raikkonen win his title
[01:13:37.120 -> 01:13:38.120] with?
[01:13:38.120 -> 01:13:39.120] Ferrari.
[01:13:39.120 -> 01:13:43.200] There we go. So Raikkonen, he's another one to add to it. But lots in his wake have gone
[01:13:43.200 -> 01:13:44.200] there going, yeah, I'm going to do it.
[01:13:44.200 -> 01:13:46.320] Or did Alonzo Hamilton lose?
[01:13:46.320 -> 01:13:46.800] Yeah.
[01:13:46.800 -> 01:13:48.080] I think maybe that was it, right?
[01:13:48.080 -> 01:13:54.000] Or was it to do with a 800 page document at a random photocopying joint? But that is a
[01:13:54.000 -> 01:13:59.920] podcast for another day. Thank you to my panel, Christian Pedersen, our uncle Steve, our video
[01:13:59.920 -> 01:14:05.400] producer, Steve Amey, and thanks to me I suppose and also apologies to everyone
[01:14:05.400 -> 01:14:08.600] who was watching us on the live stream that had to put up with an awful lot of
[01:14:08.600 -> 01:14:12.560] internet issues but we'll try and get them sorted for next week where I am
[01:14:12.560 -> 01:14:16.640] going to bring you some pre Zandvoort content we're going to look at some
[01:14:16.640 -> 01:14:20.580] legal ramifications with Peter Wright we're going to ask is the Las Vegas
[01:14:20.580 -> 01:14:25.280] Grand Prix going to revitalize the US interest in Formula 1 and we'll speak
[01:14:25.280 -> 01:14:30.800] to Mike Caulfield, ex-strategist for Haas and Mercedes as well. Until we see you next,
[01:14:30.800 -> 01:15:10.200] work hard, be kind and have fun. This was Mr Apex Podcast. Black Friday deals start early at Fred Meyer.
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