Magazine Show August 22nd 2023

Spanners catches up with Peter Wright from Digital Law UK to explore what the FIA has done in the past to deal with dominance. We also Check in with Magnus Grieves from RACEWKND magazine to see how the Vegas preparations are shaping up and what Las Vegas could do for F1 long term By the latest RACEWKND magazines here: https://racewknd.co and use the offer code SPANNERS for 10%. Missed Apex gets commission for every sale if you use that code

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Unfortunately, I cannot provide a summary of the podcast episode transcript as the transcript is not available within the context you provided. ## Missed Apex Podcast Episode Summary:

### The FIA's Role in Addressing Team Dominance in Formula One

* **Peter Wright**, a legal expert, joins the podcast to discuss the FIA's historical actions in response to dominant teams in Formula One.
* **Wright** emphasizes that regulatory changes are typically implemented after a period of sustained dominance, often two to three years.
* He cites the 2003 rule change that adjusted the points awarded to the top finishers as an example of a successful intervention to level the playing field.
* **Wright** acknowledges that it can be challenging to identify and implement appropriate regulations, especially with the current cost cap and tight restrictions on car design.
* He suggests that the FIA may consider adjusting the points system again, potentially awarding points to the top 12 or 14 finishers, to encourage closer competition.
* **Wright** also mentions the possibility of banning the Drag Reduction System (DRS) to reduce the advantage of leading cars and promote more overtaking.

### The Las Vegas Grand Prix: Potential and Challenges

* **Magnus Grieves**, a journalist from Race Weekend Magazine, shares his perspective on the upcoming Las Vegas Grand Prix.
* **Grieves** expresses skepticism about the race, citing a lack of effective marketing and an overemphasis on common stereotypes associated with Las Vegas.
* He criticizes the high ticket prices but acknowledges that they subsidize the construction of a year-round Formula One destination in Las Vegas.
* **Grieves** highlights the development of a $700 million paddock building that will host various events and attractions throughout the year.
* He envisions the Las Vegas Grand Prix becoming a unique and immersive experience, with the potential to attract a diverse audience and establish a permanent presence in the city.

### Additional Insights and Controversies:

* **The Brabham Fan Car:** **Wright** provides a detailed explanation of the Brabham fan car, a controversial design that utilized a large fan to generate downforce and provide a significant advantage.
* **Massa's Court Case:** **Wright** discusses Felipe Massa's ongoing legal challenge against the FIA, seeking compensation for his alleged loss of the 2008 World Championship due to the "crashgate" incident.
* **Wright** expresses skepticism about Massa's chances of success, citing the difficulty in quantifying the financial losses resulting from the incident.
* **He** also criticizes Massa's decision to pursue legal action, arguing that it could damage his reputation and jeopardize his ongoing career opportunities in Formula One. # Vegas Grand Prix: A Conversation with Magnus Greaves

## Overview

- Spanners and Peter Wright from Digital Law UK discuss Formula One's (F1) history of dealing with dominance and the upcoming Las Vegas Grand Prix.


- Magnus Grieves from RACEWKND magazine shares his insights on the preparations for the Vegas race and its potential long-term impact on F1.


- Listeners can get a 10% discount on RACEWKND magazines using the offer code SPANNERS.


- Follow Peter Wright on Twitter @DigitalLawUK.


- Missed Apex relies on patron support. Consider supporting them on Patreon.


## Key Points

### Las Vegas Preparations and Potential Impact

- Las Vegas has a sophisticated entertainment infrastructure that will enhance the race experience.
- Night race in Las Vegas will offer stunning visuals, including the MSG Sphere, which can display various images and effects.
- Unlike Formula E, which often results in similar-looking tracks, Las Vegas is investing in unique and visually appealing track design.
- The 10-year contract for the Las Vegas Grand Prix has attracted significant investment and enthusiasm.
- The race is expected to be highly profitable, leading to further investment in race-related experiences and infrastructure.
- Las Vegas is a popular destination for international travelers, making it accessible to a global audience.
- The city's proximity to motorsports tracks and experiences adds to its appeal for racing enthusiasts.
- The race has the potential to establish Las Vegas as a year-round F1 destination.


### Concerns and Considerations

- The championship may already be decided before the Las Vegas race, potentially diminishing the excitement.
- Street circuits often produce less thrilling races compared to traditional tracks.
- The high cost of the penultimate race slot on the calendar could be a concern for some teams.
- The Las Vegas Grand Prix is being promoted by Liberty Media, ensuring its stability and longevity.


### Wider Implications

- Liberty Media's ownership of certain races could lead to a more balanced global F1 presence.
- This model could result in each continent having a Liberty-owned race, serving as a hub for fans in those regions.
- Such a move would benefit F1 fans worldwide and enhance the overall experience of the sport.

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[02:35.960 -> 02:39.360] You are listening to Missed Apex Podcast.
[02:39.360 -> 02:53.000] We live F1.
[02:53.000 -> 02:55.120] Welcome to MissedApex Podcast.
[02:55.120 -> 02:58.720] I'm your host Richard Ready, but my friends call me Spanners.
[02:58.720 -> 03:00.680] So let's be friends.
[03:00.680 -> 03:06.440] I've got some midweek content for you, just because I had the chance to speak to two very
[03:06.440 -> 03:07.740] cool people.
[03:07.740 -> 03:12.700] So later in the show, we're going to catch up with Magnus Grieves from Race Weekend magazine.
[03:12.700 -> 03:15.720] He is talking to us about the Vegas Grand Prix.
[03:15.720 -> 03:18.160] He's doing a lot of tie-ins and promotions there.
[03:18.160 -> 03:24.200] I have expressed to him in the past, I'm a little bit sceptical, cynical, don't have
[03:24.200 -> 03:27.880] my expectations very, very high. But
[03:27.880 -> 03:32.120] he actually taught me a lot in our chat earlier. There's a lot of stuff going on with the Vegas
[03:32.120 -> 03:36.120] Grand Prix that I just didn't know about. So we've got to chat with him later. But the
[03:36.120 -> 03:42.360] bulk of the show, we are going to talk about what F1 can and should or shouldn't do when
[03:42.360 -> 03:45.520] it comes to team domination. I'm speaking to Peter Wright,
[03:45.520 -> 03:51.440] who is a proper lawyer man, but also a big F1 enthusiast. So we take a journey
[03:51.440 -> 03:57.840] through the eras and look at previous eras of domination and the consequences of that.
[04:10.480 -> 04:15.880] Hi everyone, joining us on Missed Apex today is a proper grown up and it's not always just middle aged idiots saying what they reckon. Sometimes we speak to the people that Radio
[04:15.880 -> 04:21.520] 4 call up and when Radio 4 wants to know about lawyer-y things, they get in touch with Peter
[04:21.520 -> 04:28.080] Wright, the Managing Director of Digital Law UK. Thanks for joining us and adding some grown-upness to the shed, Peter.
[04:28.080 -> 04:33.520] Well, pleased to, very pleased to be here and hopefully I can share a few thoughts on the
[04:34.560 -> 04:37.360] occasion I come on just to be able to look at the sort of law and
[04:38.080 -> 04:41.120] racing side of things and where they intersect a little bit.
[04:41.120 -> 04:45.400] So whilst not being an F1 lawyer, you are just injecting a little
[04:45.400 -> 04:51.560] bit of your F1 brain into a topic for us today. So what you and I were talking about was how
[04:51.560 -> 04:57.920] do F1 deal with dominant teams and how have they dealt with it in the past? But I'm going
[04:57.920 -> 05:02.120] to ask a question that might sound like a stupid question. Like if it is stupid, don't
[05:02.120 -> 05:11.200] be scared Peter, just go, no, that's a dumb question. But is Formula One actually obligated to provide an exactly fair, down the line
[05:11.200 -> 05:16.660] competition? Like how much freedom does it have to nerf a team? And when does that get
[05:16.660 -> 05:20.240] to the point that teams call foul?
[05:20.240 -> 05:23.080] It's actually a really good question and I'll also share that the first thing they tell
[05:23.080 -> 05:25.080] you at law school is there are no silly questions.
[05:25.080 -> 05:26.200] Yeah, that's not true.
[05:26.200 -> 05:30.920] So, in engineering, in engineering they teach us there's loads of stupid questions.
[05:30.920 -> 05:32.560] But in engineering, there's right and wrong.
[05:32.560 -> 05:33.560] There is.
[05:33.560 -> 05:34.800] Whereas in law, there's many shades of grey.
[05:34.800 -> 05:36.800] That shouldn't be true.
[05:36.800 -> 05:40.800] Which is why I'm wearing a grey shirt.
[05:40.800 -> 05:42.520] And it's an interesting point when it comes to Formula One.
[05:42.520 -> 05:43.520] Do they have...
[05:43.520 -> 05:46.840] Could we point to a bit in the regulations that says, this should all be fair and no
[05:46.840 -> 05:53.840] one should have one overriding pressing advantage and we will close the field up if anything
[05:53.840 -> 05:54.840] happens?
[05:54.840 -> 05:56.920] No, that isn't in there in black and white.
[05:56.920 -> 06:02.000] But we can certainly see from the way that the FIA have approached regulation of Formula
[06:02.000 -> 06:11.300] One over the last 30 years, that certainly they have the objective of trying to make sure that no one team ever sort of disappears into the
[06:11.300 -> 06:16.020] distance with the sort of crushing advantage that means that it's going to be the same
[06:16.020 -> 06:19.320] team and potentially the same driver winning year in, year out.
[06:19.320 -> 06:27.760] And there are quite a few examples of where they've taken sometimes quite radical steps to try
[06:27.760 -> 06:35.400] and draw one team back into the pack, back into... to take away what has sometimes been
[06:35.400 -> 06:37.280] some quite big advantages that we've seen.
[06:37.280 -> 06:41.760] Certainly what we're seeing with Red Bull and Max Verstappen now, yes, there's a significant
[06:41.760 -> 06:47.000] advantage there and a level of domination, but we have been here in F1 before.
[06:47.000 -> 06:52.920] So I mean, from a sort of a moral sporting point of view, Verstappen and Red Bull's dominance
[06:52.920 -> 06:55.000] is almost irrelevant.
[06:55.000 -> 07:01.360] You know, you run the laws of the game and teams apply the best talent they can and one
[07:01.360 -> 07:02.640] team comes out on top.
[07:02.640 -> 07:05.360] So you know, it didn't Celtic win the Scottish Premier
[07:05.360 -> 07:13.200] League something like 11 seasons in a row. It happens in sport. So, firstly, I guess, like,
[07:13.200 -> 07:18.800] it's purely down to opinion, you know, should you nerf a team that's running away with it?
[07:19.840 -> 07:30.980] Again, a good question, because ultimately, yeah, and particularly in Formula One, you do get this sort of cyclical periods of domination with one team or perhaps two teams being well
[07:30.980 -> 07:37.120] ahead of the rest for reasons of anything from the engines that they've had, bits of
[07:37.120 -> 07:42.960] technology that they've had that have sometimes meant that they've had an appreciable advantage,
[07:42.960 -> 07:46.320] sometimes in terms of resources as well.
[07:46.320 -> 07:50.600] When you, for example, look at McLaren and Ferrari in the sort of late 90s, early 2000s,
[07:50.600 -> 07:56.640] there was no one else really had quite such massive resources to throw at getting to the
[07:56.640 -> 08:01.600] front of the grid and staying there, which partially has then its roots flowing back
[08:01.600 -> 08:05.480] to where we are now in terms of trying to have equivalence
[08:05.480 -> 08:08.560] of resources through the cost cap.
[08:08.560 -> 08:13.700] But that seems to be turning into a really complex way of trying to regulate performance.
[08:13.700 -> 08:18.640] But I think as well, we have to bear in mind that what we're seeing from Red Bull, you
[08:18.640 -> 08:25.000] have to see it at the moment as a demonstration of certainly engineering perfection, almost.
[08:25.000 -> 08:31.520] The sheer level of reliability to have a car that will not break down or show the sort
[08:31.520 -> 08:38.040] of race ending performance problems that you used to see so frequently in the past, or
[08:38.040 -> 08:42.300] certainly is able to do that for more than 10 races and have nothing go wrong.
[08:42.300 -> 08:45.360] Then it comes down to the race preparation and the fact they're turning up.
[08:45.640 -> 08:48.180] They're surprised if it's not on pole, they're surprised if
[08:48.180 -> 08:51.120] they aren't then not just winning, but winning at a counter
[08:51.120 -> 08:54.600] and controlling the race means that you've got a level of team
[08:54.600 -> 08:58.200] performance there built around a driver operating at the top of
[08:58.200 -> 08:59.100] his game at the moment.
[08:59.100 -> 09:01.760] I think the only person that can probably beat Max Verstappen
[09:02.160 -> 09:03.360] is Max Verstappen.
[09:03.400 -> 09:06.280] And while he's currently in the form that he's in,
[09:06.280 -> 09:08.280] it just simply doesn't look like that's going to happen.
[09:08.400 -> 09:08.800] No.
[09:09.440 -> 09:13.800] By the way, I'll add Mercedes to your list of teams that had massive resources.
[09:13.800 -> 09:18.080] I think it gets forgotten that they had over a thousand employees
[09:18.080 -> 09:20.520] compared to other teams running several hundred.
[09:20.520 -> 09:24.560] So, yeah, Mercedes' period of domination wasn't just down to the engine formula,
[09:32.240 -> 09:39.120] the engine formula and turning up with that engine advantage. They also really did have a huge army of staff as well. And actually that period of domination, whilst they weren't maybe crushing
[09:39.120 -> 09:46.680] as consistently race in, race out as say Sebastian Vettel late 2013 or Max Verstappen now, although
[09:46.680 -> 09:47.680] it wasn't far away.
[09:47.680 -> 09:54.320] The length of that sustained domination is why that particular period kind of hurt F1
[09:54.320 -> 09:58.480] and made people go, no, we really do need to do something.
[09:58.480 -> 10:03.320] So I thought it might be fun, because you've done a great deal of prep here, to go through
[10:03.320 -> 10:05.760] these examples of previous domination
[10:05.760 -> 10:11.840] and what the FIA did, and then that'll help us get to a conclusion to whether they should
[10:11.840 -> 10:12.840] do anything now.
[10:12.840 -> 10:15.000] Should we start with Williams?
[10:15.000 -> 10:16.000] Yes.
[10:16.000 -> 10:23.080] So, if we look at Williams in the early 90s, and this was totally because they were taking
[10:23.080 -> 10:31.200] on what was at the time the behemoth of McLaren, very well resourced, incredible drivers in the shape of Alain Prost and Ayrton
[10:31.200 -> 10:32.200] Senna.
[10:32.200 -> 10:34.640] They thought, well, how do we literally take the fight to them?
[10:34.640 -> 10:39.160] Particularly after Williams had lost the Honda engine to McLaren in the late 80s.
[10:39.160 -> 10:41.020] So how are we going to take them on?
[10:41.020 -> 10:47.200] And the answer was through engineering excellence. First of all, they built the FW40
[10:48.240 -> 10:56.880] for 1991, a passive car, brilliant aerodynamics from a young Adrian Newey. Ran Senna pretty close
[10:56.880 -> 11:04.240] in 1991. 1992, you then get active suspension on there, which pretty much gave us an advantage
[11:04.240 -> 11:06.320] of almost two seconds a lap.
[11:06.320 -> 11:07.320] It was a robo car.
[11:07.320 -> 11:08.560] We decided to really go for it.
[11:08.560 -> 11:10.680] It was a robo car, wasn't it?
[11:10.680 -> 11:11.680] It was.
[11:11.680 -> 11:15.160] And for those who are wondering, well, hang on, this was all taking place way before I
[11:15.160 -> 11:16.160] was born.
[11:16.160 -> 11:18.120] There are clips and videos out there of this.
[11:18.120 -> 11:19.120] It's worth watching.
[11:19.120 -> 11:24.680] There's actually a really good documentary that Sky have made in the UK on Williams and
[11:24.680 -> 11:26.800] Mansell that documents this story.
[11:26.800 -> 11:31.040] And you can see some of the engineering in the background where they sort of show literally the
[11:31.040 -> 11:36.720] fact that the car would move up and down by the pressing of the button. And it just showed how
[11:38.160 -> 11:43.600] the suspension was not behaving the way that we would think of a car now behaving as it goes over
[11:43.600 -> 11:48.740] the bumps. It was literally, you would program the thing beforehand and it would then run around a
[11:48.740 -> 11:53.640] whole circuit, being able to stay at an optimum level, which would of course change from corner
[11:53.640 -> 11:55.920] to corner, from chicane to chicane.
[11:55.920 -> 12:02.140] So it took a long time to perfect, but once they got it working, the great Ayrton Senna
[12:02.140 -> 12:05.340] in a car powered by what everyone said was the best
[12:05.340 -> 12:11.860] engine, the Honda, was simply left over a second, a second and a half behind.
[12:11.860 -> 12:13.560] It was slightly different.
[12:13.560 -> 12:16.780] And I know that you talked on Mr. Apex of the weekend a little bit about sometimes you
[12:16.780 -> 12:21.060] get that element of sandbagging and not wanting to necessarily show how much performance you've
[12:21.060 -> 12:22.060] got in your back pocket.
[12:22.060 -> 12:24.000] I think Red Bull have done a lot of that this year.
[12:24.000 -> 12:26.800] They're just winning as far as they need to.
[12:26.800 -> 12:28.360] Control the race.
[12:28.360 -> 12:31.520] I think Max could probably lap an awful lot quicker very often
[12:31.520 -> 12:33.040] if he really wanted to.
[12:33.040 -> 12:34.520] And he simply hasn't had to.
[12:34.520 -> 12:36.640] He's just got so far ahead, and then that's been it.
[12:36.640 -> 12:39.440] Yeah, that was treated like some grand conspiracy theory.
[12:39.440 -> 12:41.680] But that's definitely been done in the past.
[12:41.680 -> 12:43.960] So some of the examples we spoke about earlier,
[12:43.960 -> 12:45.360] Sebastian Vettel 2013,
[12:45.360 -> 12:50.960] where they were untouchable after they changed the tyres after the Silverstone explosions,
[12:50.960 -> 12:57.640] they won every race by about 20 seconds. So basically, Sebastian Vettel would try and pull
[12:57.640 -> 13:03.480] a pit stop so that if he needed to pit, he would be safe. When Lewis Hamilton was comfortably
[13:03.480 -> 13:05.240] dominating races, he would
[13:05.240 -> 13:09.880] go to about five or six seconds because that would then cut away the virtual safety car
[13:09.880 -> 13:13.520] advantage or whatever, you know, if there was something went wrong with needing to pit
[13:13.520 -> 13:18.320] during a safety car, he'd have that window. So it's really, it's not strange at all,
[13:18.320 -> 13:23.080] I don't think, for Max Verstappen in the position he finds himself to go, no, I'm
[13:23.080 -> 13:30.480] not going to go and lap the field because that, why would you? Why would you stoke the fan base and stoke the audience
[13:30.480 -> 13:36.920] into taking action? But when you have something like the Williams active suspension car, that
[13:36.920 -> 13:43.720] does provoke action. That does make the governing body stand up and go, oh, we need to do something.
[13:43.720 -> 13:49.160] It did. I mean, part of it was that you had a driver like Mansell who, after all of his near misses,
[13:49.160 -> 13:57.640] three times runner up, and this was very clearly his sort of last shot at being world champion.
[13:57.640 -> 14:00.840] Good competitive machinery, clearly no one else was going to get close to him.
[14:00.840 -> 14:02.920] This was the year he had to do it.
[14:02.920 -> 14:10.800] Rather than deciding to do it in a, I will win each race by almost going as slow as you need to in order to win, I think he was pretty much of
[14:10.800 -> 14:15.200] the school of thought that was, I've been here for 15 years, I'm now going to show you all exactly
[14:15.200 -> 14:20.560] what I can do. And he regularly blitzed the seal, destroying his own teammate, Riccardo Patrese,
[14:20.560 -> 14:25.040] who was, he was no slouch, but he pretty much destroyed him, a series of dominant
[14:25.040 -> 14:28.800] one-twos where both Williams were virtually a lap ahead of everyone else.
[14:28.800 -> 14:32.600] And at the British Grand Prix, I think he was almost two seconds ahead of the field
[14:32.600 -> 14:34.600] in qualifying.
[14:34.600 -> 14:38.540] And again, almost put a whole lap on the rest of the field and broke the lap record a few
[14:38.540 -> 14:44.060] times just for fun in the last few laps, just to whip the crowd up that bit more.
[14:44.060 -> 14:45.560] But interestingly, it wasn't actually that year
[14:45.560 -> 14:47.320] that the regulators decided to do something about it.
[14:47.320 -> 14:49.040] It was actually the following year.
[14:49.040 -> 14:51.560] So the following year, you've then got Mansell's gone,
[14:51.560 -> 14:53.840] Patrese's gone, you've got Alain Prost.
[14:53.840 -> 14:55.880] Back after his sabbatical, you've got Damon Hill,
[14:55.880 -> 14:58.640] his first year in competitive machinery,
[14:58.640 -> 15:00.080] pretty much learning what it was to be like
[15:00.080 -> 15:01.560] in a front-running vehicle.
[15:01.560 -> 15:07.120] The FW15C was built with active suspension and traction control and ABS
[15:07.120 -> 15:12.240] integrated into the car. It would not work without it. And that became quite important
[15:12.240 -> 15:16.880] because mid-year, the FIA suddenly said, well, we're going to have to do something about this.
[15:17.440 -> 15:23.600] Other teams had active ride by this point, McLaren, Benetton, I think Ferrari as well. So
[15:23.600 -> 15:27.040] certainly all the front runners had invested in this technology as well, but there was
[15:27.040 -> 15:30.960] the fear of the cars being driven from the pit lane and it no longer being the drivers
[15:30.960 -> 15:31.960] in control.
[15:31.960 -> 15:35.520] So at about the time of the German Grand Prix, they said, we're going to ban this and we're
[15:35.520 -> 15:37.560] actually going to ban it from the next race.
[15:37.560 -> 15:42.520] So suddenly Williams were having to break out the previous year's FW14 show cars, try
[15:42.520 -> 15:46.160] and make those run on passive suspension at the same time as preparing
[15:46.160 -> 15:50.760] their FW15Cs for a normal race weekend.
[15:50.760 -> 15:52.400] The FIA relented.
[15:52.400 -> 15:55.120] The old cars went back into the shop.
[15:55.120 -> 15:58.040] But the point was then it was clear it was going to be banned from the following year.
[15:58.040 -> 16:02.160] And the following year, you've got the FW16, still had the Renault engine, which everyone
[16:02.160 -> 16:03.840] said was the most powerful.
[16:03.840 -> 16:09.720] But that ended up being beaten over the course of the year by Michael Schumacher, Benetton
[16:09.720 -> 16:15.120] with a comparatively underpowered Ford engine in the back.
[16:15.120 -> 16:20.520] But that was taking that regulatory action and that just took away Williams' advantage
[16:20.520 -> 16:26.320] overnight and their passive car simply did not have the built-in
[16:24.080 -> 16:28.480] technology and advantage that the
[16:26.320 -> 16:31.040] previous ones did. What is difficult
[16:28.480 -> 16:33.320] then for the FIA in that position is when
[16:31.040 -> 16:36.880] you take action like that you're basically
[16:33.320 -> 16:39.200] deciding effectively the championship
[16:36.880 -> 16:41.320] winner because if you make one decision
[16:39.200 -> 16:44.040] it's a bit more open but you make
[16:41.320 -> 16:46.880] the decision not to ban it, you're handing them the trophy.
[16:46.880 -> 16:55.000] So very hard to fend off accusations of favoritism or you've bunged a manila envelope stuffed
[16:55.000 -> 16:56.280] with cash.
[16:56.280 -> 17:00.200] It seems to be the case that sometimes when you get that dominant team, it's been the
[17:00.200 -> 17:03.880] case that you'll get a couple of years of dominance to sort of almost get your return
[17:03.880 -> 17:09.840] on investment. So say, okay, well, we'll let you clean up for a year or two, but that this will not
[17:09.840 -> 17:15.160] perpetuate over a period into like sort of 10 years or so.
[17:15.160 -> 17:19.840] Where that's then changed in more recent years is that I think it was fairly easy for the
[17:19.840 -> 17:20.840] regulator.
[17:20.840 -> 17:24.240] We can see you've got this wonderful gizmo on your car that's giving you this advantage.
[17:24.240 -> 17:25.280] We'll ban that.
[17:25.280 -> 17:27.880] And with the active suspension, you could tell quite easily
[17:27.880 -> 17:28.720] if it was there or not.
[17:28.720 -> 17:30.480] Traction control, they couldn't,
[17:30.480 -> 17:32.120] because it then could be masked
[17:32.120 -> 17:34.040] inside the electronic control unit.
[17:34.040 -> 17:36.560] And that was only properly banned for years.
[17:36.560 -> 17:38.120] We won't even go into the whole
[17:38.120 -> 17:40.040] was Michael Schumacher running with traction control
[17:40.040 -> 17:41.480] in 1994 or what.
[17:41.480 -> 17:44.300] Or was Vettel running with it in his Red Bull as well,
[17:44.300 -> 17:45.880] allegedly.
[17:46.380 -> 17:46.800] Yes.
[17:50.540 -> 17:53.820] But having the, but they got around that eventually in 2009 by saying everyone will have the same electronic control unit.
[17:54.040 -> 17:57.060] And therefore we know that that doesn't contain traction control.
[17:57.060 -> 17:58.560] So that was a more difficult thing to ban.
[17:59.080 -> 18:05.040] But the point is, is that then in other years of domination, so for example, when we had Ferrari in the
[18:05.040 -> 18:13.160] early 2000s and Red Bull with Fittell, it was less easy to point to one thing and say,
[18:13.160 -> 18:18.200] if we take away that particular gizmo or that particular thing, your advantage will go.
[18:18.200 -> 18:19.200] Okay.
[18:19.200 -> 18:24.920] Well, just to remind us of the, because I'm very young, Peter.
[18:24.920 -> 18:26.680] By the way, everyone do go and look up the
[18:26.680 -> 18:32.120] active suspension Williams, you won't regret looking that up. The Ferrari one, oh this
[18:32.120 -> 18:38.480] hurts, do you know what, this is the time that I was most or least in love with Formula
[18:38.480 -> 18:43.640] 1. I'm a 42 year old just for now, how old are you Peter?
[18:43.640 -> 18:52.000] I'm 44. 44. Oh, what an old turnip you are. Okay, so very similar ages. So I enjoyed watching F1 in my
[18:52.000 -> 18:57.200] childhood a lot, but this Ferrari period of domination in my 20s, to be fair, I was traveling
[18:57.200 -> 19:02.080] a lot as well, but in a time in my life where it was harder to make the time to watch F1,
[19:02.640 -> 19:07.160] Schumacher was ruining it. The Ferrari domination ruined F1.
[19:07.160 -> 19:12.760] And I would say this is where I had the era where I had most in-race naps,
[19:13.280 -> 19:15.400] I would say for sure, because you were hoping at the lights,
[19:15.560 -> 19:18.920] could something bad happen to Schumacher and the Ferraris?
[19:19.120 -> 19:20.280] No, it didn't.
[19:20.280 -> 19:22.920] Sigh, have a little nap, check in at the end.
[19:23.160 -> 19:27.560] But yeah, but this is an example where you're saying, you know, there was no magic bullet
[19:27.560 -> 19:33.480] that you could say, right, take away their third, their extra accelerator pedal and they
[19:33.480 -> 19:34.760] won't do as well.
[19:34.760 -> 19:35.760] Exactly.
[19:35.760 -> 19:39.700] So, I mean, 2000 was actually quite a close championship.
[19:39.700 -> 19:44.360] You had that wonderful race at Spa, for example, which Hakkinen won with that incredible overtake
[19:44.360 -> 19:45.340] on Zonta. Oh, past Zonta. Zonta was also there. wonderful race at Spa, for example, which Hackenen won with that incredible overtake on-
[19:45.340 -> 19:46.340] Oh, past Zonta.
[19:46.340 -> 19:47.340] ... Zonta.
[19:47.340 -> 19:48.340] Yeah.
[19:48.340 -> 19:51.540] Zonta was also there.
[19:51.540 -> 19:52.540] To get past Schumacher.
[19:52.540 -> 19:57.420] But so, you had quite a close season in 2000, particularly because Ferrari almost choked,
[19:57.420 -> 20:01.340] and I think it was Schumacher as well, after so many years, they were like, good car, we
[20:01.340 -> 20:02.340] should win this.
[20:02.340 -> 20:04.900] And they almost threw it away mid-season.
[20:04.900 -> 20:07.360] It's absolutely fascinating to watch, but they got their act together.
[20:07.360 -> 20:08.360] They won.
[20:08.360 -> 20:12.780] 2001, it was almost like on the back of all that effort, 2001, there was an advantage.
[20:12.780 -> 20:16.600] The car was head and shoulders better than anything else.
[20:16.600 -> 20:22.460] McLaren threatened for a bit, but never consistently applied pressure.
[20:22.460 -> 20:26.560] And then 2002 was the first time we saw domination similar to what we're
[20:26.560 -> 20:31.520] seeing from Max and Red Bull this year. And that had a similar effect. I mean, you were
[20:31.520 -> 20:35.080] talking about viewing figures at the weekend and how in America they seem to have declined
[20:35.080 -> 20:39.740] quite a bit. There was a similar thing, particularly when you think that everyone then is watching
[20:39.740 -> 20:44.440] it through traditional TV networks and they could see there was a bit of a drop off. So
[20:44.440 -> 20:48.000] in 2003, you couldn't point to one particular thing on that Ferrari.
[20:48.000 -> 20:50.600] What they did was change a few things around.
[20:50.600 -> 20:56.640] One was to say, we're going to ban all year round as much as you can eat testing,
[20:56.640 -> 20:58.200] which is what Ferrari had.
[20:58.200 -> 20:58.800] Yes.
[20:58.800 -> 20:59.400] Hang on.
[20:59.400 -> 21:04.520] Yeah, it's really easy to forget that they used to have unlimited testing,
[21:04.520 -> 21:05.520] unlimited engines, unlimited tyres. There was used to have unlimited testing, unlimited engines,
[21:05.520 -> 21:09.720] unlimited tyres, there was never any of these considerations, unlimited money.
[21:09.720 -> 21:14.720] And so if you look at things like cost cap, engine restrictions, testing restrictions,
[21:14.720 -> 21:17.120] it's really interesting to go, oh, where did that come from?
[21:17.120 -> 21:20.320] So I had not quite pieced that together in my head, that the reason they have limited
[21:20.320 -> 21:27.120] testing now was that because Ferrari had that Maranello test track and they just
[21:27.120 -> 21:31.320] felt that that was a big advantage to be constantly having access to testing?
[21:31.320 -> 21:36.680] Well, they had their own private track and then they also seemed, or certainly from the
[21:36.680 -> 21:40.960] days when I'd look at this in auto sport, it seemed like every week there was a Ferrari
[21:40.960 -> 21:45.440] team, a test team, Solely Did Testing testing that seemed to be parked at Mugello
[21:45.440 -> 21:51.760] doing lap after lap after lap. And they would just be there. Yeah, they'd still be testing.
[21:51.760 -> 21:57.120] Even when the race team was out, you'd have this test team there testing new parts, testing new
[21:57.120 -> 22:00.720] systems. Let's see if this front wing works. Let's see if this little bit of bodywork.
[22:01.520 -> 22:07.120] There was even one time, this is back in the days when Monaco was on a Thursday free practice,
[22:07.120 -> 22:11.480] Friday was off so you could go and party, then Saturday was qualifying.
[22:11.480 -> 22:15.880] Schumacher would go to Thursday practice, then fly to Mugello, do a load of testing
[22:15.880 -> 22:19.600] at Mugello on Friday, then come back for the Saturday.
[22:19.600 -> 22:21.560] They were testing to that level.
[22:21.560 -> 22:24.520] They weren't the only ones as a matter of fact, McLaren and others did a lot of this
[22:24.520 -> 22:27.500] as well, but the point was that you could no longer pound around doing
[22:27.500 -> 22:33.720] endless tyre testing and perfecting. I mean, you can imagine the cost of this, not to mention
[22:33.720 -> 22:37.960] how... I mean, we've talked now about 20-odd races being a drain on the team. Imagine if
[22:37.960 -> 22:50.480] you've then got teams all around the world in warmer climates doing their testing. So when we were talking about, okay, you've got an active aero, you've got Frick, like
[22:50.480 -> 22:54.760] Mercedes had with a hydraulic suspension, we can take that thing away.
[22:54.760 -> 22:58.000] That's very clearly targeting one team.
[22:58.000 -> 23:02.440] So the choice always when someone has that innovation is either ban that innovation,
[23:02.440 -> 23:10.040] let that innovation run a little bit and then ban it, so give it a bit of notice so they still get the advantage from doing it, or with like the double diffuser,
[23:10.040 -> 23:14.320] you go, okay, we'll keep it, but it's clear that other teams are also going to develop
[23:14.320 -> 23:15.320] it.
[23:15.320 -> 23:18.800] So you just, you had an early advantage, but now you lose it, Braun.
[23:18.800 -> 23:25.000] So those are all much more obvious that look, yes, Mercedes, Red Bull, Braun,
[23:25.100 -> 23:28.180] you came up with something, we're taking it away.
[23:28.180 -> 23:30.680] When it comes to something like this, like testing,
[23:30.680 -> 23:32.180] it's much easier to go, no,
[23:32.180 -> 23:34.700] we're just changing something generally.
[23:34.700 -> 23:36.740] Oh, does it happen to affect the team
[23:36.740 -> 23:38.580] that's been dominating more?
[23:38.580 -> 23:40.380] And I think that's a lot what happened
[23:40.380 -> 23:43.060] with the 2022 regulations,
[23:43.060 -> 23:45.480] I think that were meant to come in in 2021. But a
[23:45.480 -> 23:51.080] lot of those regulations, oh, look, it just, oh, did it just happen to not go the way of
[23:51.080 -> 23:57.520] Mercedes and level things out. So how do you feel, I'm asking a lawyer here about morals,
[23:57.520 -> 24:03.640] but where do you feel that option morally sits, you know, because it is targeting one,
[24:03.640 -> 24:06.720] but it's almost like it's not honestly targeting
[24:06.720 -> 24:08.040] a team, if that makes sense.
[24:08.040 -> 24:15.600] Well, no, those big regulation changes, so like 2009 and 2022, were a long time being
[24:15.600 -> 24:22.440] worked on. And ultimately, it was Mercedes along with the other teams contributed to
[24:22.440 -> 24:25.880] the new regulation package in the same way they contributed to the 2017
[24:25.880 -> 24:31.800] overhaul and the introduction of the hybrids in 2014.
[24:31.800 -> 24:37.360] While those are large changes, almost like change the iteration of Formula One when they
[24:37.360 -> 24:42.120] come in, yes, it will throw all the pieces in the air.
[24:42.120 -> 24:49.480] Sometimes it will be that team that had an advantage that then loses it. But it doesn't necessarily always happen. I mean, you look at... So,
[24:49.480 -> 24:56.280] okay, Mercedes had those three years of pushing dominance 2014 to 16. 2017, the advantage
[24:56.280 -> 25:03.040] was nowhere near as big as it was. You look then at 2017, 2018, that's more a team and
[25:03.040 -> 25:06.480] driver at the top of their game than fending off
[25:06.480 -> 25:11.360] what was actually a very strong challenge from Ferrari. And Evelin, I think, was very critical
[25:11.360 -> 25:16.320] of Ferrari, but I think it was Vettel hugging and puffing, trying to drag Ferrari to being competitive.
[25:16.320 -> 25:21.200] And just ultimately the team and driver cracking under the pressure. But we got to see brilliant
[25:21.200 -> 25:24.720] sporting contests in those years. So I think when you look at it on paper and you think,
[25:24.720 -> 25:28.880] oh, it was just Mercedes winning for almost a whole decade. Well, it wasn't really.
[25:28.880 -> 25:35.840] We actually had some really good racing during that period. Well, yes. And obviously 2014, 2015,
[25:35.840 -> 25:42.080] 2016, Nico Rosberg was there to make it interesting as well. I think what hurt though was after that
[25:42.080 -> 25:45.640] Ferrari challenge and they got nerfed because they
[25:45.640 -> 25:51.840] were allegedly definitely running way more fuel flow than they were allowed somehow.
[25:51.840 -> 25:53.280] Come at me, Ferrari.
[25:53.280 -> 25:56.840] No, we're saying, I'm saying they did it.
[25:56.840 -> 25:57.840] Right.
[25:57.840 -> 26:01.920] Obviously, that nerfed their 2019 challenge.
[26:01.920 -> 26:05.360] And then 2019, 2020, Mercedes were basically dominant. And then
[26:05.360 -> 26:11.160] this time, Lewis Hamilton was very comfortable in his skin at Mercedes, very clear number
[26:11.160 -> 26:15.580] one driver. They were very clearly, you know, they'd spent years developing towards him
[26:15.580 -> 26:20.280] by that point as well. Bottas, I don't think, stood a chance. So I think that's what hurt
[26:20.280 -> 26:27.920] from a regular regulator point of view and a fan point of view. They go, oh, we've just had Mercedes domination,
[26:27.920 -> 26:29.480] and now we've got it again.
[26:29.480 -> 26:32.600] And I think that's why the Mercedes one hurt,
[26:32.600 -> 26:36.240] because it's just a pure span of time.
[26:36.240 -> 26:36.800] It did.
[26:36.800 -> 26:38.760] And I think that's why, as well, we
[26:38.760 -> 26:41.340] have to remember that there was that slight regulation change
[26:41.340 -> 26:43.920] from 20 to 21 that, out of everyone,
[26:43.920 -> 26:45.040] that seemed to be deliberately
[26:45.040 -> 26:49.840] targeted at any car with a three-pointed star carrying it.
[26:49.840 -> 26:54.480] I thought you were going to say Ride Hite then, but yes.
[26:54.480 -> 27:02.560] Because they literally went, we'll get rid of DAS, which was the driver interconnected
[27:02.560 -> 27:06.400] front wheel whereby you need your steering wheel and that moves your tires,
[27:06.400 -> 27:10.880] which I think was a key part of how they'd get the tires warmed up both for qualifying and
[27:11.600 -> 27:16.720] during race stints. So that was gone. And there was a slight aero change just affecting
[27:17.680 -> 27:22.560] the aero in front of the rear wheels that seemed to not bother any of the cars that were running
[27:22.560 -> 27:26.160] with the Heppy Rake Red Bull model.
[27:26.160 -> 27:27.680] Rake is what I meant, not RideHide.
[27:27.680 -> 27:28.800] Yeah, follow him.
[27:28.800 -> 27:32.640] It only seemed to penalize the cars with a long wheelbase, which that year was Mercedes
[27:32.640 -> 27:34.320] and Aston Martin.
[27:34.320 -> 27:38.400] And that then meant that Mercedes had a real fight on their hands.
[27:38.400 -> 27:43.120] And let's not go down the 20 with 21 rabbit hole.
[27:43.120 -> 27:44.000] No, no, hey, hey.
[27:44.000 -> 27:48.240] Remember how poor Mercedes performance was in the middle of that year?
[27:48.240 -> 27:49.620] That's where that championship was lost.
[27:49.620 -> 27:54.480] If you look at Austria in particular, that was where the real damage was done.
[27:54.480 -> 27:56.520] So I don't think that's a crazy...
[27:56.520 -> 28:00.640] People will point at that as a conspiracy, but honestly, like with all these conversations
[28:00.640 -> 28:06.560] we've had, that seems like one of the smartest regulation changes to deliberately
[28:06.560 -> 28:12.400] equalize the field. And that doesn't seem, you know, it didn't seem like terrible. They didn't
[28:12.400 -> 28:18.400] nerf Mercedes to the back of the grid. But from a sporting point of view earlier, would Mercedes
[28:18.400 -> 28:24.160] have a leg to stand on to kind of go, hey, that's not fair? Or do you think after eight years of
[28:24.160 -> 28:26.040] pretty steady being at the top, they
[28:26.040 -> 28:31.280] go, no, no, fair play, fair enough. Or were they promised, I don't know, a bigger share
[28:31.280 -> 28:35.080] of the marketing or a bigger executive box in Vegas?
[28:35.080 -> 28:40.760] I don't think it's necessarily a, I mean, yeah, do we know exactly what payments are
[28:40.760 -> 28:43.800] made to all the teams? Well, no, because that's a wonderful confidential arrangement.
[28:43.800 -> 28:45.280] Is it?
[28:45.280 -> 28:47.280] So, could be things buried in there.
[28:47.280 -> 28:52.640] But to be honest, I think that when you've enjoyed your period of domination, you should
[28:52.640 -> 28:57.600] expect there to be a little bit of regulatory change.
[28:57.600 -> 28:58.920] It can be difficult to see what that will be.
[28:58.920 -> 29:02.680] I mean, we were talking about 2003 there and Ferrari, one of the big changes they did that,
[29:02.680 -> 29:06.820] I mean, and this affected everyone, was just to change how the points were awarded.
[29:06.820 -> 29:10.160] So it used to be you'd only get points from one to six.
[29:10.160 -> 29:14.780] So imagine that one point to sixth place, a driver gets sixth place now and we're cheering
[29:14.780 -> 29:16.660] them to the rafters saying, oh, I had a really good weekend there.
[29:16.660 -> 29:17.980] It used to be glorious, didn't it?
[29:17.980 -> 29:20.540] It used to be, yeah, getting that final point.
[29:20.540 -> 29:24.980] Whereas now, you know, sixth place is actually seen as a really good, oh, you had a really
[29:24.980 -> 29:25.760] strong weekend there,
[29:25.760 -> 29:27.440] but they've come home in sixth and seventh place.
[29:27.440 -> 29:29.480] And you're like, I'm still from the school of thought,
[29:29.480 -> 29:31.120] where you're thinking that they've literally got one.
[29:31.120 -> 29:34.520] I tell you what, I'm old like you as well,
[29:34.520 -> 29:37.840] but I still, because I don't mind a little flutter on F1,
[29:37.840 -> 29:40.280] I've still very much got in my head top six,
[29:40.280 -> 29:44.920] and actually bookies still offer to bet on a driver top six as standard.
[29:44.920 -> 29:47.440] And so that's, I think that's a very generational thing where I go,
[29:47.440 -> 29:51.600] oh, I fancy them for a top six, whereas it doesn't really make any sense anymore.
[29:51.600 -> 29:56.640] But you know, I agreed, I agree with nerfing them back.
[29:56.640 -> 30:02.480] And if I was F1 in 2020 and you go, oh, we've had all these years of Mercedes domination,
[30:02.480 -> 30:05.920] I would be getting everyone together and going, like, this isn't good.
[30:05.920 -> 30:07.200] This isn't actually now.
[30:07.200 -> 30:10.480] We're not getting to the point where you're getting any more benefit from it, really.
[30:10.480 -> 30:16.560] If the whole ship is sinking, if the whole tide is lowering, then, you know, everyone's
[30:16.560 -> 30:17.200] suffering.
[30:17.200 -> 30:21.040] And if anything, they probably left it a bit long with Mercedes.
[30:21.040 -> 30:29.120] Whereas now we're looking at Red Bull and you go, well, if we did the same there and we're going to go, okay, well, Red Bull are going to dominate this season, probably
[30:29.120 -> 30:35.040] next season 2025. And then they've got a real good shout of coming up in the 2026 regulations
[30:35.040 -> 30:40.920] and being great as well. So we could be looking at another eight years of a team dominating.
[30:40.920 -> 30:46.960] Why should it be different this time? You know, why should we now at a Red Bull and go, well, we should nerf them?
[30:46.960 -> 30:51.760] And the answer is going to come from the viewing figures being that sinking tide that we're
[30:51.760 -> 30:53.120] sort of talking about.
[30:53.120 -> 30:56.560] So how long do you let that go on if it's hurting F1?
[30:56.560 -> 31:00.960] Well, as I say, they tend to sort of leave it for sort of two to three years.
[31:00.960 -> 31:04.800] And then you can see, I mean, each year there's always a slight change to the regulations.
[31:04.800 -> 31:05.880] Something is done.
[31:05.880 -> 31:10.360] Sometimes it was just on the grounds of safety.
[31:10.360 -> 31:16.940] But I think we'll probably see, before that big regulatory change that we know is going
[31:16.940 -> 31:22.560] to be on the way in 2026, it wouldn't surprise me if some measures are taken.
[31:22.560 -> 31:26.840] I think it's probably no longer possible that ship
[31:26.840 -> 31:32.640] of sale to do that now to try and affect next year. They could do again, a sporting change.
[31:32.640 -> 31:37.080] I mean, I would say 2003 went from points for the top six to points for the top eight
[31:37.080 -> 31:40.200] and closed up the gap between first and second place. The idea being that if you've got a
[31:40.200 -> 31:47.040] regular points finisher getting a podium, they can hopefully stay in touch with a runaway winner.
[31:47.040 -> 31:51.600] Arguably you could rejig the points again, particularly if we get say an Andretti or
[31:51.600 -> 31:54.000] a and other teams, team or teams coming in.
[31:54.000 -> 31:56.280] I know you're a big supporter of that.
[31:56.280 -> 32:02.440] So imagine if we get that bigger grid, say 22, 24, 26 car.
[32:02.440 -> 32:06.480] Arguably it would make sense to say, we're actually going to have, say, points to the top 12
[32:06.480 -> 32:07.200] or top 14.
[32:07.200 -> 32:08.940] And they do that in British touring cars.
[32:08.940 -> 32:10.920] I think IndyCar, you might get more than 10,
[32:10.920 -> 32:12.380] the top 10 finishers get in points.
[32:12.380 -> 32:16.660] So it wouldn't be outside of the realm of possibility
[32:16.660 -> 32:18.120] to do that, but in the process, you
[32:18.120 -> 32:20.640] could try and tweak the points so that you can still
[32:20.640 -> 32:23.160] stay in touch, even if you aren't necessarily
[32:23.160 -> 32:23.880] winning races.
[32:23.880 -> 32:27.800] Yeah, but they're not going to now turn around and just, you know, say you're only allowed
[32:27.800 -> 32:31.640] half a rear wing now, which is, you know, they're not going to now look at a specific
[32:31.640 -> 32:36.240] area where Red Bull are very, very strong and go, right, we now need the noses to fit
[32:36.240 -> 32:38.680] this dimension, not this dimension.
[32:38.680 -> 32:43.520] But the problem is in this current regulation is there's less room for a team to turn up
[32:43.520 -> 32:45.440] with a double diffuser
[32:45.440 -> 32:51.840] or as you put in your notes here, like a Brabham fan car and just go boom. Now there's no magic
[32:51.840 -> 32:54.200] bullet under the cost cap.
[32:54.200 -> 33:01.000] No, there isn't. And you're quite right, the regulations are now so tight that the scope
[33:01.000 -> 33:09.360] for that sort of innovation is very narrow. When you look at all of the cars on the grid, you're trying to actually find anything that's
[33:09.360 -> 33:10.360] different.
[33:10.360 -> 33:13.360] I actually applauded Mercedes for trying to do something different with the zero pod design,
[33:13.360 -> 33:16.520] which I know was very unpopular with many people, but it's like, otherwise, you take
[33:16.520 -> 33:19.240] the paint off all the cars, they look identical.
[33:19.240 -> 33:22.600] And that's because of the way the regulations are drafted so tightly.
[33:22.600 -> 33:28.080] You look at the grid 30, 40 years ago, and you've got loads of different types of designs
[33:28.080 -> 33:31.800] on there as different engineering teams come up with their different solutions, but you
[33:31.800 -> 33:36.320] had a generally more open regulatory environment to be able to do that.
[33:36.320 -> 33:38.320] Did they ever.
[33:38.320 -> 33:43.640] Give us an introduction to the Brabham fan car, to some of the newer F1 fans.
[33:43.640 -> 33:49.440] This is hilarious. So this is at the period of sort of in the mid to late 70s, you've got ground effect
[33:49.440 -> 33:51.440] being developed.
[33:51.440 -> 33:56.480] Gordon Murray, who went on to design the McLaren F1 road car, which is still, I think, is like
[33:56.480 -> 34:00.180] the fastest performance vehicle on the road.
[34:00.180 -> 34:05.840] When he was designing for Brabham F1 team, at the time owned by one Bernard Eccleston.
[34:06.320 -> 34:10.960] Love that guy. They turned up at the Swedish Grand Prix literally with a massive fan on the back of the car.
[34:10.960 -> 34:12.800] Seriously, Google it, Brabham fan car.
[34:13.600 -> 34:17.360] Literally, yeah. And they literally, it was the precise same dimensions as a bin lid. So
[34:17.360 -> 34:23.520] they covered it with like a, you know, your plastic bin lid during when it was in the pits.
[34:23.520 -> 34:25.040] And they just take the bin lid off
[34:25.040 -> 34:33.000] send it out there and of course this fan in a very literal sense just sucked the car onto
[34:33.000 -> 34:36.120] the track. Now there is a regulation out there and there had been there was then and I think
[34:36.120 -> 34:40.880] there still is now you can't have a movable aerodynamic device. Surely having a munch
[34:40.880 -> 34:46.620] of great fan on the back breaches that But that rule was there before the Swedish Grand Prix.
[34:46.620 -> 34:51.580] So everyone expected the stewards to take one look and go, no, you're not having that.
[34:51.580 -> 34:52.580] But they didn't.
[34:52.580 -> 34:53.740] So it was found to be legal.
[34:53.740 -> 34:55.520] It raced.
[34:55.520 -> 34:59.860] And I think Nikolai was again trying not to win by too great a margin.
[34:59.860 -> 35:03.340] You don't want to rub the opposition's nose in it sort of thing.
[35:03.340 -> 35:04.900] Yeah, he's not really doing anything.
[35:04.900 -> 35:06.080] Yeah, it's barely helping.
[35:06.080 -> 35:07.680] This gigantic fan.
[35:07.680 -> 35:10.480] So basically the fan would act like a vacuum cleaner.
[35:10.480 -> 35:15.520] It's just sucking out the air from underneath the car and just pinning the car to the ground.
[35:17.040 -> 35:20.240] Why don't F1 have something like that on purpose?
[35:20.800 -> 35:22.880] That would be a great way to have aero.
[35:22.880 -> 35:24.080] Would you have aero wash?
[35:24.080 -> 35:28.400] Or would a dirty, great big fan blowing out the back make it harder to follow?
[35:28.400 -> 35:32.080] I'm thinking it would make it even more difficult to follow if you get this massive wash now
[35:32.080 -> 35:34.440] just from having massive great wings on the front.
[35:34.440 -> 35:37.880] Imagine what you'd get from in effect a huge propeller.
[35:37.880 -> 35:42.520] I think there were probably, if we think though, could be safety issues if there was a crash
[35:42.520 -> 35:46.440] and there was a massive propeller churning.
[35:46.440 -> 35:49.720] Not to mention, I mean, ground effect was banned in the early 80s originally with those
[35:49.720 -> 35:54.080] big moving side skirts because it was leading to a lot of crashes where you've got cars
[35:54.080 -> 35:55.440] going ridiculously fast.
[35:55.440 -> 35:59.000] They lose that downforce and they literally become a massive flying wing.
[35:59.000 -> 36:00.000] Just imagine it.
[36:00.000 -> 36:01.000] Which would.
[36:01.000 -> 36:05.180] Thankfully that hasn't happened with this generation of cars because their ground effect
[36:05.180 -> 36:07.960] operates in a different way.
[36:07.960 -> 36:12.640] But the point with the fan car though is that, so they win this race and then literally Brabham
[36:12.640 -> 36:15.340] said, we won't race that anymore.
[36:15.340 -> 36:21.200] And just voluntarily without being asked, then just didn't decide to race it anymore.
[36:21.200 -> 36:25.000] Perhaps with an eye to the fact that if they didn't, all that would happen is
[36:25.000 -> 36:28.280] the other teams would think, oh we'll fit a mass of great fans to the back of our cars
[36:28.280 -> 36:29.280] as well.
[36:29.280 -> 36:33.240] It would act like a wood chipper to local wildlife as well. Mummy, look at that sweet
[36:33.240 -> 36:38.880] little bunny on the... and then tears. But yeah, you can imagine that being a vacuum
[36:38.880 -> 36:47.480] wood chipper. Yeah, you see, Eccleston there ends up basically owning and running F1 as the commercial rights
[36:47.480 -> 36:49.080] holder with CVC.
[36:49.080 -> 36:53.680] So he's got half an eye when he's racing about the whole interest because he's going to have
[36:53.680 -> 36:55.440] skin in the game later.
[36:55.440 -> 36:59.840] And that's an accusation that gets leveled at Toto Wolff quite a lot.
[36:59.840 -> 37:03.960] Is that, is he purely, and I'm not asking you to speculate, but I'm just saying that
[37:03.960 -> 37:10.000] that gets leveled at Toto Wolff, like, is he a future Bernie Eccleston? So he's not necessarily always looking
[37:10.000 -> 37:14.720] at Mercedes-only interest. And so if it comes to like, well, you've been dominating for eight
[37:14.720 -> 37:21.600] years, this isn't good for F1. If he's got a plan to be a future Bernie, to take over from Liberty
[37:21.600 -> 37:25.900] one day, then yeah, that could be a similar scenario.
[37:25.900 -> 37:28.940] Watching Pete's eyes, watching Pete's eyes.
[37:28.940 -> 37:37.700] Possibly, but I think with any of the team bosses now, their total focus is on the ongoing
[37:37.700 -> 37:41.320] success and performance of their teams.
[37:41.320 -> 37:45.500] If only because they know that you can't do do as Bernie did, you can't start running
[37:45.500 -> 37:48.560] things while still owning and running your team.
[37:48.560 -> 37:52.400] He was setting up the Formula One Constructors Association, starting his political life to
[37:52.400 -> 37:57.360] the top while he was still owning Brampton.
[37:57.360 -> 38:02.780] Now Liberty made it quite clear they wouldn't recruit someone to say the Stefano Domenicali
[38:02.780 -> 38:06.700] role who had the previous year been running a team.
[38:06.700 -> 38:12.160] I mean, Domenicali was out of frontline F1 for a number of years.
[38:12.160 -> 38:21.520] And I think a period of gardening leaves would be required by all of the other teams before
[38:21.520 -> 38:29.140] they would allow one of their number to potentially then sort of step into that role again. Okay. Because I think there would be simply too much of a
[38:29.140 -> 38:32.260] conflict of interest otherwise.
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[39:36.880 -> 39:42.560] Speaking of conflict of interest, it's very hard for me to advocate that the FIA or F1
[39:42.560 -> 39:45.000] should do something now specifically
[39:45.160 -> 39:46.980] to stop Max Verstappen dominance
[39:46.980 -> 39:50.680] when I'm a fully outed Lewis Hamilton fan.
[39:50.680 -> 39:54.600] So, but I do think that this is the wasted opportunity.
[39:54.600 -> 39:57.920] We talked about this a couple of weeks back.
[39:57.920 -> 40:01.440] It's just such a shame that they had so much interest
[40:01.440 -> 40:07.360] in the US and the US has been the prettiest girl at prom for F1 for years.
[40:07.360 -> 40:09.440] And we finally plucked up the courage
[40:09.440 -> 40:12.880] to go and ask America to come and dance with us.
[40:12.880 -> 40:14.400] And they did.
[40:14.400 -> 40:16.600] And the first dance was great,
[40:16.600 -> 40:18.240] but now it's like,
[40:18.240 -> 40:21.200] it's really kind of just awkward drum and bass.
[40:21.200 -> 40:22.840] And we're just standing there pumping our arms
[40:22.840 -> 40:25.820] and flailing around and they're losing interest.
[40:25.820 -> 40:32.040] But these things are cyclical. I think that, because you reported at the weekend about
[40:32.040 -> 40:35.840] the fact that there may have been a decline in the figures in the US. To be honest, that
[40:35.840 -> 40:40.220] would always have happened. You were never going to get Formula One staying at the sustained
[40:40.220 -> 40:49.640] level of competition and performance that we saw in 2021 in particular. I mean, that was a one-off season, incredible to watch, not knowing who's going to win each
[40:49.640 -> 40:51.280] weekend.
[40:51.280 -> 40:56.920] We had not had that at that level for a very long time.
[40:56.920 -> 41:03.160] And so, yeah, there was always going to be a year of one team running away with it, perhaps
[41:03.160 -> 41:05.280] not quite to this level,
[41:05.280 -> 41:11.360] admittedly, but like you said, we had this with Mercedes, we had this with Ferrari. So
[41:11.360 -> 41:18.200] it's great that America is more cognizant of Formula One, more than it has ever been.
[41:18.200 -> 41:23.280] I'm speaking to my wife who's from the States, so I've got a lot of friends and I see all
[41:23.280 -> 41:25.540] the stuff they're posting on Facebook in the States.
[41:25.540 -> 41:28.880] There is a lot more traction and awareness around what's happening in Formula One and
[41:28.880 -> 41:34.400] other forms of motorsport than I've ever seen before.
[41:34.400 -> 41:38.560] The fact that you've now got more American races on the back of this will mean that,
[41:38.560 -> 41:47.120] I think, support from public in America will remain at a much higher level than it was pre-Drive to Survive
[41:47.120 -> 41:51.840] and pre-Liberty. And also that applies to a lot of other markets because you have to
[41:51.840 -> 41:55.880] remember now that it's a very different demographic. Like you keep saying, there'll be a lot of
[41:55.880 -> 42:01.000] people listening to this, regular missed Apex listeners, and also those who watch a Formula
[42:01.000 -> 42:09.520] One who are far younger. And 10, 15 years ago, Formula One's problem was it was not attracting new fans. It was retaining people like you and me, who
[42:09.520 -> 42:13.520] were getting progressively older, but it wasn't attracting new people to it because it wasn't
[42:13.520 -> 42:19.840] seen as engaging. Whereas it is now because Netflix has made it accessible.
[42:19.840 -> 42:31.280] I think they're going to do something. I think they're going to chuck something cheeky in there. I think the pressure, the liberty of feeling, so from the FOM broadcaster side,
[42:31.280 -> 42:37.960] I bet that behind the scenes they are livid. I bet behind the scenes they're panicking
[42:37.960 -> 42:41.600] and that there's going to be some cheeky little thing. There's going to be, oh, this is just
[42:41.600 -> 42:47.480] a generic change, something like your testing hours thing. That's what I think, I think towards the end of
[42:47.480 -> 42:50.800] the year or over the winter break, something's gonna get thrown up because
[42:50.800 -> 42:55.200] I think that this time round it's gonna feel more desperate to change.
[42:55.200 -> 43:01.000] Well there's two things they can do. One that wouldn't require any sort of lead
[43:01.000 -> 43:04.120] time, they could just do this based on a vote of the World Motorsports Council,
[43:04.120 -> 43:09.640] would be changing the points. That's an easy one to do. Award points
[43:09.640 -> 43:14.480] instead of it being from top 10 to top 12, even top 14 if you will. Then it gets to the
[43:14.480 -> 43:17.160] point that if you finish you get a point, maybe not that, but certainly I think it's
[43:17.160 -> 43:22.080] the case to say the top 12 finishes. Because it's so competitive all the way down, there's
[43:22.080 -> 43:26.000] all that fight, it then makes it even more of a race. So I can see them doing that.
[43:26.000 -> 43:29.580] The second thing you could do, which would be a little bit more controversial and possibly,
[43:29.580 -> 43:34.300] as I say, because of the fact that the designs of the cars are now so advanced already for
[43:34.300 -> 43:35.300] next year.
[43:35.300 -> 43:38.680] So I don't know if you could do it for next year or not, but the straightforward thing
[43:38.680 -> 43:41.460] to do would be to ban DRS.
[43:41.460 -> 43:42.460] Do we really need it?
[43:42.460 -> 43:43.460] Completely.
[43:43.460 -> 43:44.460] Completely.
[43:44.460 -> 43:46.240] That would be, I think that would be interesting,
[43:46.800 -> 43:52.880] but you know Verstappen's normally ahead anyway and isn't using the DRS, but that would be an
[43:52.880 -> 43:56.720] interesting one because they definitely do get an advantage of that. So when things go wrong
[43:56.720 -> 44:01.920] and they're stuck in the middle field, that is much less of a problem for them to come through
[44:01.920 -> 44:08.120] and that does kind of make it very inevitable that they're going to end up winning. Peter, this has been an absolutely fantastic, not
[44:08.120 -> 44:13.020] just like insight into the legal side of it and asking the moral question, we got an opportunity
[44:13.020 -> 44:18.160] to play, well you are FOM, you are the FIA. I think the FIA would leave it alone forever.
[44:18.160 -> 44:22.480] I think the FIA would just let it run. I think it is the broadcasters, the commercial rights
[44:22.480 -> 44:25.360] holders. So, you know, I'm betting ESPN is out
[44:25.360 -> 44:29.560] there putting pressure on Liberty, who's putting pressure on the FIA. This is all guesswork
[44:29.560 -> 44:33.560] from me. But yeah, that's the kind of chain I'm going down. But from a sporting point
[44:33.560 -> 44:41.480] of view, the FIA is probably fine with what's happening now. But I can't let you go as a
[44:41.480 -> 44:46.400] special super special lawyer man without just getting a touch into the
[44:46.400 -> 44:51.980] Massa stuff. So if you've got a few minutes Peter, just want to ask you, will Massa win
[44:51.980 -> 44:56.800] his court case and be crowned the rightful 2008 champion?
[44:56.800 -> 44:58.200] Questions to which the answer is no.
[44:58.200 -> 45:03.760] Oh okay, because I think he should be, he was robbed. No. Yeah, we went through the
[45:03.760 -> 45:05.520] detailed arguments at length, but just,
[45:06.160 -> 45:11.840] he's obviously hired a legal team. They've come out with very strong statements. Is it quite a
[45:11.840 -> 45:18.400] common legal thing to kind of posture like this going into a case? Yes. I think we have to remember
[45:18.400 -> 45:23.040] as well that he's not looking to literally take Lewis Hamilton's first world championship away
[45:23.040 -> 45:29.840] from him. He's looking for a financial settlement from the FIA to basically ... And this is the interesting
[45:29.840 -> 45:30.840] point.
[45:30.840 -> 45:34.640] He's making a claim, going to court and saying, I should have been world champion.
[45:34.640 -> 45:40.400] Here is the evidence that that race should have been annulled because of the crash gate
[45:40.400 -> 45:44.960] incident, and therefore that would have made me world champion.
[45:44.960 -> 45:49.800] So if we then extrapolate from there, if I'd been world champion since 2008, I would have
[45:49.800 -> 45:52.140] had the following commercial opportunities and endorsements.
[45:52.140 -> 45:56.420] My career would have turned out in a different way, and therefore I would have been entitled
[45:56.420 -> 46:00.060] to so many million on the basis of being world champion.
[46:00.060 -> 46:05.440] And the bit that I really struggle with is that it's not as though you can point to say,
[46:06.160 -> 46:11.200] ah, being world champion would give you say an extra $50 million. Because I mean,
[46:11.200 -> 46:15.600] look at Nico Rosberg. He won his world championship and then retired. So you can't
[46:15.600 -> 46:19.120] look at his post world championship career and say, oh, well, you're entitled to whatever Nico
[46:19.120 -> 46:22.720] Rosberg earned because he wasn't even racing. I'm sure he's done some commercial things. He's
[46:22.720 -> 46:27.680] had his Formula E team, all these different things. I know it's Extreme E that he's in, isn't it? Whichever
[46:27.680 -> 46:32.760] way, are you comparing it to that? Are you comparing him to, let's think of another one
[46:32.760 -> 46:36.440] time world champion, are you comparing him to Johnson Button? He had his title and then
[46:36.440 -> 46:41.520] another still went on to be in Formula One for quite some time. Where I think the argument
[46:41.520 -> 46:45.200] falls to the ground is that it's not like Massa was
[46:45.200 -> 46:50.660] then his Formula One career fizzled out or something. He stayed for a number of years
[46:50.660 -> 46:54.240] at Ferrari. He would have been on good money there. He then went to Williams. He would
[46:54.240 -> 46:58.320] have been on good money there, paid for a few of the martini sponsorship. So he had
[46:58.320 -> 47:11.040] a good, long Formula One career. And I think it's difficult to argue that career would have been extended beyond that point. So you can arguably say, well, look, you still proceeded to make an awful lot of
[47:11.040 -> 47:15.360] money out of Formula One. But the thing that the court would find, even if, I don't think the court
[47:15.360 -> 47:21.440] can do this because of the point that Matt made, that no race has ever been annulled in the way
[47:21.440 -> 47:29.560] that they seem to be thinking it can be done. But even if you did that and the court said, we think that you should have won the championship,
[47:29.560 -> 47:30.880] where's the loss?
[47:30.880 -> 47:32.400] How can we quantify that loss?
[47:32.400 -> 47:36.200] How do you get the quantum to say, well, this is what you're now entitled to?
[47:36.200 -> 47:43.800] And I think it's simply an impossible thing to properly quantify and put a figure on.
[47:43.800 -> 47:47.720] And when all you're doing is claiming for compensation to put you in the position you
[47:47.720 -> 47:52.600] would otherwise have been in, if you'd won the championship, you simply can't do it.
[47:52.600 -> 47:54.160] What contract did you not get?
[47:54.160 -> 47:57.000] Like you were still at Ferrari for a long time.
[47:57.000 -> 47:58.880] Yeah, I just, do you know what?
[47:58.880 -> 48:00.920] Overall like, it's just not cool.
[48:00.920 -> 48:02.760] Like it's a bad vibe, isn't it?
[48:02.760 -> 48:04.560] Bad vibe, the whole thing.
[48:04.560 -> 48:09.980] I think he's been badly advised. I mean, you see now, ex-drivers end up still making a
[48:09.980 -> 48:16.460] lot of, very often a lot from commercial opportunities, being in the paddock, still being invited
[48:16.460 -> 48:22.460] back to different things, doing work with broadcasters, sponsors. And I think actually
[48:22.460 -> 48:26.400] doing this, he's almost jeopardizing some of that.
[48:26.400 -> 48:31.640] And I think that is quite short-sighted because, I mean, you know, a driver like Damon Hill
[48:31.640 -> 48:33.200] won his championship in 1996.
[48:33.200 -> 48:37.760] He's still here telling us exactly what he thinks and doing very well from that.
[48:37.760 -> 48:42.480] And there's no reason why Massa wouldn't be doing that for the Brazilian market.
[48:42.480 -> 48:48.440] Should we be able to continue to do that? But I think it's sort of his international exposure, actually, he is actually harming
[48:48.440 -> 48:51.920] his ongoing career in that regard.
[48:51.920 -> 48:53.640] And legacy a little bit, I think.
[48:53.640 -> 48:55.780] Peter Wright, thank you so much for your time.
[48:55.780 -> 49:00.680] We must make your appearances more regular because that little journey back into the
[49:00.680 -> 49:05.040] history of F1 there, actually, I had a smile on my face, even when you were talking about
[49:05.040 -> 49:10.640] the horrible Schumacher bit where they just ruined F1 for a sustained period of time. But go and
[49:10.640 -> 49:14.960] follow Peter Wright in the link in the show notes below. And thank you very much for your time, Pete.
[49:14.960 -> 49:15.460] Thank you.
[49:23.200 -> 49:29.520] Okay, let's take a break from those wranglings, those legal ramifications of team domination.
[49:29.520 -> 49:35.920] Let's think no more of the domination of Schumacher, Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton and pay attention
[49:35.920 -> 49:42.040] to the new shiny thing that is coming up over the horizon and that is the Las Vegas Grand
[49:42.040 -> 49:43.040] Prix.
[49:43.040 -> 49:45.520] Is it going to be a jewel in the crown or Is it going to be a jewel in the crown
[49:45.520 -> 49:48.400] or is it going to be a stone in the rough?
[49:48.400 -> 49:52.480] Well, to get me clued in on all things shiny in Vegas
[49:52.480 -> 49:55.320] is Magnus Grieves from Race Weekend Magazine.
[49:55.320 -> 49:57.080] How's it going, Magnus?
[49:57.080 -> 49:59.080] Doing fantastic, thanks for having me back.
[49:59.080 -> 50:00.760] No, it's great, I love having you on.
[50:00.760 -> 50:04.200] Firstly, not only because you send me lovely copies
[50:04.200 -> 50:06.880] of your shiny race weekend magazine which
[50:06.880 -> 50:14.480] make me look like a posh slash middle class f1 fan so when people come around we have your glorious
[50:14.480 -> 50:20.880] a3 full double page spreads things out for people to to look through and i just look like the kind
[50:20.880 -> 50:25.120] of classy guy who has that kind of magazine. Well, that's our intention,
[50:25.120 -> 50:28.840] to make you look a bit more cultured in the F1 space.
[50:28.840 -> 50:30.480] That is what it makes me look like.
[50:30.480 -> 50:32.540] And are you gonna get angry with me?
[50:32.540 -> 50:35.380] I've actually cut out quite a few of the things
[50:35.380 -> 50:37.400] to put them up in various places.
[50:37.400 -> 50:38.520] Well, it's funny, actually.
[50:38.520 -> 50:40.800] People have asked us if we would send them two copies,
[50:40.800 -> 50:42.000] one that they could, you know,
[50:42.000 -> 50:44.360] with perforated images to put on the wall,
[50:44.360 -> 50:47.320] and the other one to keep on the coffee table. So we need to look into that.
[50:47.320 -> 50:51.920] Yeah, so I felt like a little kid because it's the first time I've put anything up since
[50:51.920 -> 50:59.280] I took out the double page middle spread of the Daily Telegraph of Jos Verstappen when
[50:59.280 -> 51:05.120] he had the fuel spill on him in a pit lane during a fuel stop and then it ignited.
[51:05.120 -> 51:07.280] So he was just in a ball of flames.
[51:07.280 -> 51:13.520] That's the last F1 thing I'd put up in a room until I mutilated your magazine.
[51:13.520 -> 51:16.080] You haven't photoshopped Max onto that photo, I hope.
[51:16.080 -> 51:17.080] I know what you're like.
[51:17.080 -> 51:18.680] No, no, no, no, not at all.
[51:18.680 -> 51:19.680] Not at all.
[51:19.680 -> 51:20.680] I like Max Verstappen.
[51:20.680 -> 51:23.880] I would consider myself a fan.
[51:23.880 -> 51:25.360] And as someone who tells the truth all the
[51:25.360 -> 51:32.560] time, I'm going to tell you the truth that the Las Vegas Grand Prix is something that
[51:32.560 -> 51:37.760] I'm cynical of. And I know there's a lot of excitement around it, there's a huge amount
[51:37.760 -> 51:44.240] of money behind it, I'm betting Liberty will want it to work and are pouring emotional
[51:44.240 -> 51:45.560] and financial energy behind it.
[51:45.560 -> 51:51.000] I don't know why it's not captivating me at the moment. Is it because, you know,
[51:51.000 -> 51:57.640] I'm a Brit and somehow I'm immune to the magic that Vegas holds? I think in
[51:57.640 -> 52:01.960] American culture, like if this was the Blackpool Grand Prix, maybe I'd be
[52:01.960 -> 52:07.840] feeling differently. Well, listen, I think there's two issues here.
[52:07.840 -> 52:13.860] The first one is that in spite of Formula One and Liberty doing an amazing job of securing
[52:13.860 -> 52:20.040] this race, which is an incredible task that can't be underestimated, they've done a really,
[52:20.040 -> 52:22.680] really poor job of actually marketing it.
[52:22.680 -> 52:27.000] And I think what they've done, which they have a tendency to do with all US races,
[52:27.000 -> 52:29.360] is that they focus on the sort of common tropes
[52:29.360 -> 52:32.440] and stereotypes, so all you're seeing are bedazzled jackets
[52:32.440 -> 52:34.620] and what happens on the strip,
[52:34.620 -> 52:37.260] in the same way that every Formula One driver
[52:37.260 -> 52:39.760] has to put on cowboy boots and cowboy hats for Austin,
[52:39.760 -> 52:41.800] even though we've been going there for 10 years.
[52:41.800 -> 52:44.760] And then tropical print shirts for Miami.
[52:44.760 -> 52:48.180] So I think that they're playing on
[52:49.240 -> 52:51.140] a very narrow set of stereotypes,
[52:51.140 -> 52:53.880] which doesn't do justice to actually how amazing
[52:53.880 -> 52:55.700] it is to be in Las Vegas.
[52:56.800 -> 52:59.040] And the second thing is,
[52:59.040 -> 53:01.920] there's understandably a lot of focus
[53:01.920 -> 53:04.200] on how expensive the tickets are
[53:04.200 -> 53:05.440] for the Las Vegas Grand Prix.
[53:05.440 -> 53:08.060] They're by far the most expensive anywhere.
[53:08.060 -> 53:15.580] But I think that the way I look at it is that those expensive tickets are underwriting what
[53:15.580 -> 53:21.000] is about to be the first and only year round Formula One destination.
[53:21.000 -> 53:29.000] There is a $700 million building that's there, that is going to be there year-round, and so much is going to come with that.
[53:29.000 -> 53:38.000] Wait, how can you have a year-round F1 destination? Because as far as I'm aware, like nothing really like that exists.
[53:38.000 -> 53:45.280] So you could argue that Silverstone needs the Grand Prix to fund a bunch of other stuff, but what on earth do you mean by an all-round...
[53:46.400 -> 53:50.800] Because you saying that, that's the first time I've heard anything about that.
[53:50.800 -> 53:55.600] Yeah. And listen, I go down there tomorrow, I'm down there every couple of weeks, and so I see
[53:56.240 -> 54:01.520] what's happening. But you have to first understand what Las Vegas is now, right? I think a lot of
[54:01.520 -> 54:06.920] people have a sort of outdated view of Las Vegas. You go down, you go to a show, blah, blah, blah.
[54:06.920 -> 54:12.200] Every entertainer is setting up these sort of residencies there and everything now, the
[54:12.200 -> 54:18.240] infrastructure in Las Vegas is such that everything is being set up so that these people, the
[54:18.240 -> 54:21.700] half million people that come every weekend and the half million people that come every
[54:21.700 -> 54:25.160] Monday for the week week have everything to go
[54:25.160 -> 54:28.340] and visit to keep them entertained and keep them coming back.
[54:28.340 -> 54:33.800] So with Formula One, you now have this, I mean, the paddock building is unbelievable.
[54:33.800 -> 54:34.800] It is massive.
[54:34.800 -> 54:36.720] It's in a great location.
[54:36.720 -> 54:40.880] And they're going to be using that year round for different events.
[54:40.880 -> 54:42.360] So it doesn't disappear.
[54:42.360 -> 54:43.820] It's a massive structure.
[54:43.820 -> 54:45.360] They're going to be hosting all sorts
[54:45.360 -> 54:50.320] of... It's going to be a sort of a venue. It's going to have other things that people can come
[54:50.320 -> 54:56.880] and do year round. But also, if you look at the F1 exhibition, which is just shut down in, or
[54:56.880 -> 55:03.040] shutting down in Spain, I'm sure that the next venue for that is going to be Las Vegas. If you
[55:03.040 -> 55:06.120] look at the F1 arcade that is in London
[55:06.120 -> 55:08.440] and setting up initially in Boston,
[55:08.440 -> 55:09.980] not sure why Boston,
[55:09.980 -> 55:13.200] definitely there's going to be one of those in Las Vegas
[55:13.200 -> 55:16.240] and more to boot.
[55:16.240 -> 55:19.160] Las Vegas is such a sophisticated,
[55:19.160 -> 55:23.520] coordinated entertainment infrastructure
[55:23.520 -> 55:29.000] that once, here's the other thing, as much as the casinos are investing in this race,
[55:29.000 -> 55:32.000] I don't think they fully understand how amazing this thing is going to be
[55:32.000 -> 55:33.000] until they see it.
[55:33.000 -> 55:39.000] And then they're going to be creating their own F1-related venues
[55:39.000 -> 55:43.000] and experiences for people to come and visit on a year-round basis as well.
[55:43.000 -> 55:48.320] Okay, so what we're doing is we're building a picture of going to that place and being
[55:48.320 -> 55:49.320] good.
[55:49.320 -> 55:53.760] So, like, if I go to Vegas for the race, I'm going to have a great time, and that's what
[55:53.760 -> 55:54.760] they're focusing on.
[55:54.760 -> 55:55.760] Yes.
[55:55.760 -> 56:00.440] Even when it's not the race, I can still have my F1 arcade, presumably somewhere to watch
[56:00.440 -> 56:02.720] other Grand Prix around the world.
[56:02.720 -> 56:05.440] The concern is, I guess it's not a concern for
[56:05.440 -> 56:11.800] them at all, is does it become another Monaco or Miami when we watch it on telly?
[56:11.800 -> 56:17.560] Well it's possible, you know, I mean it's hard to create a great street track. I will
[56:17.560 -> 56:23.020] say that the, you know, when I watch a race from home and I'm not there, one thing I like
[56:23.020 -> 56:25.360] is to sort to be excited about
[56:25.360 -> 56:26.360] the visuals.
[56:26.360 -> 56:31.800] So at least with Monaco, it makes me think about Monaco, which is not a bad thing.
[56:31.800 -> 56:35.240] You're looking at the harbor, you're looking at the boats, you look at all these beautiful
[56:35.240 -> 56:36.680] things, the casino.
[56:36.680 -> 56:40.760] Las Vegas, it's going to be at night, it's going to have the fountains, it's going to
[56:40.760 -> 56:46.280] have the sphere, which by the way, is one of the most unbelievable things that I've ever seen.
[56:46.280 -> 56:49.800] This MSG sphere that is, I don't know if you've seen it.
[56:49.800 -> 56:54.440] I saw it, yeah, it's like a big dome with pixels all over it, so they can make it look
[56:54.440 -> 56:55.640] like whatever they want.
[56:55.640 -> 57:00.360] I saw it, it looked like a giant basketball, like a really realistic basketball.
[57:00.360 -> 57:04.440] So it's an eyeball, it's a basketball, it's all sorts of different things.
[57:04.440 -> 57:05.220] It sounds kind of corny when you're first told about it. So it's an eyeball, it's a basketball, it's all sorts of different things and it sounds
[57:05.220 -> 57:11.200] kind of corny when you're first told about it, but to see it in person is truly stunning.
[57:11.200 -> 57:12.200] That's definitely going to be a...
[57:12.200 -> 57:13.820] That's one of the backdrops as well.
[57:13.820 -> 57:15.360] That's got to be a helmet, surely.
[57:15.360 -> 57:16.360] It's going to be a race driver's helmet.
[57:16.360 -> 57:19.240] It's a helmet, it's got to be a helmet, absolutely.
[57:19.240 -> 57:25.600] Okay, so, I mean what Formula E does though, and I'm not trying to slate Formula E, but they
[57:25.600 -> 57:27.880] put these barriers up around the track.
[57:27.880 -> 57:30.840] So every track kind of looks the same.
[57:30.840 -> 57:35.560] And you get that effect in Singapore as well, night race in Singapore, but when you watch
[57:35.560 -> 57:38.640] it on TV, you get no flavor of the city.
[57:38.640 -> 57:41.400] Every Formula E race looks exactly the same.
[57:41.400 -> 57:42.400] They had Rome.
[57:42.400 -> 57:43.400] And what did you see of Rome?
[57:43.400 -> 57:44.400] You saw nothing.
[57:44.400 -> 57:49.040] And even when you're at the track in Formula E, they wall it off so that you have to sit
[57:49.040 -> 57:54.440] in specific areas of a grandstand where they've sold the ticket.
[57:54.440 -> 57:55.960] So there's a few issues there.
[57:55.960 -> 58:01.280] Firstly, they've got to avoid that trap of just turning the circuit into a fenced off
[58:01.280 -> 58:02.280] bunch of walls.
[58:02.280 -> 58:05.120] So when you're looking at the onboard all you're just seeing is
[58:05.120 -> 58:09.600] you know catch fence. But also for the people there, I mean I've heard stories that if certain
[58:09.600 -> 58:14.880] hotels didn't pay up they were going to erect barriers to block off the hotel's view.
[58:15.520 -> 58:21.920] So the Grand Prix partners with the different hotels, the sort of three main hotel groups down
[58:21.920 -> 58:26.520] there, so all the casinos are in on it, but there's different restaurants that end up having their
[58:26.520 -> 58:29.720] own access to where the circuit will be.
[58:29.720 -> 58:35.720] Yeah, Formula One put some kind of silly proposal that they had to pay $1,500 a head multiplied
[58:35.720 -> 58:38.000] by their maximum capacity.
[58:38.000 -> 58:41.600] So venues would end up spending millions of dollars and it would be impossible for them
[58:41.600 -> 58:42.600] to host people.
[58:42.600 -> 58:46.040] But the last thing I heard was that they came to some sort of resolution and they have to
[58:46.040 -> 58:48.780] pay $50,000 kind of token fee.
[58:48.780 -> 58:52.040] But that would have just been a ridiculous proposal.
[58:52.040 -> 58:57.520] But again, I think there's going to be some amazing seating options for people that are
[58:57.520 -> 58:58.520] there.
[58:58.520 -> 59:03.400] But looking to the majority of people that are going to be watching it on the race, again,
[59:03.400 -> 59:05.000] there's a reason they call Las Vegas
[59:05.000 -> 59:06.480] the entertainment capital of the world.
[59:06.480 -> 59:09.200] And as competitive as all these casinos are with each other,
[59:09.200 -> 59:12.240] they also know, you know, when they need to come together
[59:12.240 -> 59:14.080] and work together.
[59:14.080 -> 59:17.640] And so the visuals that will be coming
[59:17.640 -> 59:21.240] from the different hotels and casinos that it passes by,
[59:21.240 -> 59:23.560] you know, as I said, like just the fountains alone
[59:23.560 -> 59:26.800] at night lit up are going to be spectacular.
[59:26.800 -> 59:33.880] So I think the visual feast for those of us watching on TV is going to be incredible.
[59:33.880 -> 59:38.640] I've never seen this much going into a particular race.
[59:38.640 -> 59:46.200] So when we went to Miami before the inaugural race there, and we were working with the promoters
[59:46.200 -> 59:47.800] to put together a guide.
[59:47.800 -> 59:50.080] It was amazing to see the enthusiasm
[59:50.080 -> 59:52.640] and how everybody was sort of mobilizing
[59:52.640 -> 59:54.960] to participate, all the different restaurants
[59:54.960 -> 59:56.960] and clubs and shops and everything else.
[59:56.960 -> 01:00:00.840] Las Vegas is that times 10, because the venues are bigger
[01:00:00.840 -> 01:00:03.160] and there's more of a sort of coordinated effort.
[01:00:03.160 -> 01:00:09.000] The other thing is, when it went from being a three-year race to a 10-year race...
[01:00:09.000 -> 01:00:10.800] They've got a 10-year contract.
[01:00:10.800 -> 01:00:11.800] It's a 10-year contract.
[01:00:11.800 -> 01:00:12.800] Right.
[01:00:12.800 -> 01:00:19.300] And what happens then is, companies and people and everybody around there invests in the
[01:00:19.300 -> 01:00:21.540] race that much more.
[01:00:21.540 -> 01:00:24.280] So it's not like it's a one-off and you're not sure how long it's going to stick around.
[01:00:24.280 -> 01:00:29.280] They know it's a 10-year opportunity. It is tracking to be probably the most profitable
[01:00:29.280 -> 01:00:34.560] weekend that they've ever seen, which gives them even more incentive to invest. But also,
[01:00:35.360 -> 01:00:42.240] that investment is there for that weekend, but it's also there for experiences and shops and
[01:00:42.240 -> 01:00:45.680] boutiques and restaurants and bars that it will be around
[01:00:45.680 -> 01:00:52.880] the F1 theme on a year round basis. So I think the race will be a success, but I think if they
[01:00:52.880 -> 01:00:58.080] handle it correctly, what happens between the races will be an even bigger success. And that
[01:00:58.080 -> 01:01:05.760] is an opportunity that is unique to Las Vegas. And Las Vegas is a city that most people in North America
[01:01:05.760 -> 01:01:09.200] will visit, you know, Las Vegas any given year
[01:01:09.200 -> 01:01:10.040] or every two years.
[01:01:10.040 -> 01:01:10.860] I've got to do it once.
[01:01:10.860 -> 01:01:11.860] Even not from the US.
[01:01:11.860 -> 01:01:14.120] I do feel like it's got that international appeal
[01:01:14.120 -> 01:01:18.300] where I go, I should go, I should go to Vegas, not once.
[01:01:18.300 -> 01:01:21.100] Well, and if you look at the big UFC fights,
[01:01:21.100 -> 01:01:21.940] I used to love this one,
[01:01:21.940 -> 01:01:26.720] Conor McGregor would fight in Las Vegas and you'd get
[01:01:26.720 -> 01:01:31.440] that huge Irish contingent that would come and it would take over the whole venue. And so, yeah,
[01:01:31.440 -> 01:01:38.080] I think that you're going to get a sense of that with the race as well. It's such an international
[01:01:38.080 -> 01:01:44.560] destination and this is such a special place to watch that race. It's funny, at first I was quite
[01:01:44.560 -> 01:01:46.720] skeptical of it, but
[01:01:46.720 -> 01:01:50.400] going down there as much as I have been, and we're working in partnership with the Wynn
[01:01:50.400 -> 01:01:58.560] Casino. And every time I go down, I also look outside of the strip. And one of the coolest
[01:01:58.560 -> 01:02:04.280] features I think about Las Vegas is that they have so many race tracks there. And so many
[01:02:04.280 -> 01:02:06.160] tracks, like we've gone to this place
[01:02:06.160 -> 01:02:13.200] called Speed Vegas, where you can rent any type of supercar and do laps around this track. There's a
[01:02:13.200 -> 01:02:18.560] high level karting track as well. There's an off-road track where you can rent like dune
[01:02:18.560 -> 01:02:26.800] buggies and race those and jump those. But unlike say Austin, where okay you can do that type of thing at COTA any week but the
[01:02:26.800 -> 01:02:32.400] Grand Prix, because this is a night race in Las Vegas, during the day there's so many of these
[01:02:32.400 -> 01:02:37.920] types of tracks and experiences where you know motorsports enthusiasts can go and and get some
[01:02:37.920 -> 01:02:47.600] laps in themselves. Yeah I think you can tell when a venue, when an area F1 goes to, has its own racing pedigree
[01:02:47.600 -> 01:02:48.600] and history.
[01:02:48.600 -> 01:02:52.240] You know, you can go to a track and it can be soulless and you think there's some little
[01:02:52.240 -> 01:02:53.240] thing that's missing.
[01:02:53.240 -> 01:02:57.720] And I think that some little thing sometimes is a racing heritage and a racing culture
[01:02:57.720 -> 01:02:59.560] and or a motorsport culture.
[01:02:59.560 -> 01:03:02.320] But at Circuit of the Americas, you feel it.
[01:03:02.320 -> 01:03:04.320] You feel that's a motorsport outfit.
[01:03:04.320 -> 01:03:08.520] Yeah, but the motorsport culture of Las Vegas is actually huge.
[01:03:08.520 -> 01:03:11.240] That's what I'm, well that's what's giving me hope then if you're saying that.
[01:03:11.240 -> 01:03:18.240] They have NASCAR racing, they have the karting championships, they have the Mint 400, which is
[01:03:18.240 -> 01:03:22.200] this huge desert race. There's all sorts of different types of racing that happens there,
[01:03:22.200 -> 01:03:27.020] which is something that I find really interesting because Formula One kind of is acting
[01:03:27.020 -> 01:03:29.360] like they're the first race that comes to Las Vegas.
[01:03:29.760 -> 01:03:32.840] They're not, they're the biggest, but there's a lot of different racing
[01:03:32.840 -> 01:03:34.920] events that happen there year round.
[01:03:34.920 -> 01:03:39.480] So the, the, the locals, the fan base, people are used to traveling to Las Vegas
[01:03:39.840 -> 01:03:44.400] to watch, uh, different motor sports in action and now Formula One is taking
[01:03:44.400 -> 01:03:45.280] it to another level,
[01:03:45.280 -> 01:03:47.160] but there is a culture of racing there.
[01:03:47.160 -> 01:03:48.160] Okay, okay.
[01:03:48.160 -> 01:03:53.440] Well, look, I'm chucking these up for you to knock them out of the park, but two things
[01:03:53.440 -> 01:03:58.600] going heavily against the inaugural Las Vegas Grand Prix.
[01:03:58.600 -> 01:04:00.440] Firstly, championships dead.
[01:04:00.440 -> 01:04:03.880] Is that scuppering the mood?
[01:04:03.880 -> 01:04:06.760] Yeah, I think definitely.
[01:04:06.760 -> 01:04:08.640] I mean, I think that's gonna affect every race
[01:04:08.640 -> 01:04:12.720] here going forward, or probably going four races back.
[01:04:12.720 -> 01:04:15.720] But yeah, I think that's definitely a concern.
[01:04:15.720 -> 01:04:19.580] And I think that in terms of what happens on the circuit
[01:04:19.580 -> 01:04:22.180] and the drama, that's not gonna be there.
[01:04:22.180 -> 01:04:24.700] I don't think that's gonna change the actual experience
[01:04:24.700 -> 01:04:27.440] for those people that show up or you know that kind of visual
[01:04:27.440 -> 01:04:31.520] spectacle of watching it on TV but I think that's always a risk when you're
[01:04:31.520 -> 01:04:36.000] the last race or the next to last race and yeah I think there definitely must
[01:04:36.000 -> 01:04:39.920] be some concern about that with with Guillermo. I'm thinking with the position in the
[01:04:39.920 -> 01:04:46.120] calendar as the penultimate race that's probably an expensive slot on the calendar, I'd imagine,
[01:04:46.120 -> 01:04:52.320] you know, because Abu Dhabi, they didn't get the last race of the season out of, you know,
[01:04:52.320 -> 01:04:55.320] the kindness of Eccleston's heart. They've paid for that.
[01:04:55.320 -> 01:04:59.120] Well, but let's remember that no one is paying that fee because this is the one race that
[01:04:59.120 -> 01:05:00.760] Formula One is promoting themselves.
[01:05:00.760 -> 01:05:03.240] Oh, right. I'd missed that. Totally.
[01:05:03.240 -> 01:05:05.480] Yeah, right. Yeah. yeah so so it's not
[01:05:05.480 -> 01:05:08.960] like somebody's sort of disappointed from that perspective. Okay I'm with you.
[01:05:08.960 -> 01:05:13.160] Extra for that for that particular slot. Okay that changes things all right so that's that
[01:05:13.160 -> 01:05:19.680] one dampener and knocked out of the park for a for a home score. Okay I'm braced
[01:05:19.680 -> 01:05:24.160] because it's a street track at the end of the day the circuit looks you know
[01:05:24.160 -> 01:05:26.560] quite street circuit-y. I don't have any high hopes that it's a street track at the end of the day. The circuit looks, you know, quite street circuit-y.
[01:05:26.560 -> 01:05:32.320] I don't have any high hopes that it's going to be an absolute banger of a race from a wheel
[01:05:32.320 -> 01:05:38.000] swapping car perspective and I'm not a fan of street races. I've been very open about that.
[01:05:38.000 -> 01:05:43.040] I would, I'd burn them all but, you know, so that's the spectacle is going to be doing a lot
[01:05:43.040 -> 01:05:45.600] of heavy lifting over the racing would be my bet.
[01:05:46.200 -> 01:05:47.200] Yeah, I think so.
[01:05:47.200 -> 01:05:56.300] And again, it's hard for me to comment on, on, you know, not just the street race, but, but the first time that they're doing the street race.
[01:05:56.700 -> 01:06:05.680] But, you know, having been to the Singapore Grand Prix, that was one of the most fun experiences I've had in my life, you know, and we always, you know, we call ourselves Race Weekend.
[01:06:05.680 -> 01:06:07.680] One of the things we like to do is analyze
[01:06:07.680 -> 01:06:09.120] what makes for a great race weekend.
[01:06:09.120 -> 01:06:11.580] And one of the key components I feel
[01:06:11.580 -> 01:06:15.260] is the proximity between the race, the circuit,
[01:06:15.260 -> 01:06:17.780] and, you know, the best neighborhoods in the city.
[01:06:17.780 -> 01:06:19.180] So if you look at the Miami Grand Prix,
[01:06:19.180 -> 01:06:21.500] I think one of the things that kind of
[01:06:21.500 -> 01:06:23.940] makes it a little bit trickier is that, you know,
[01:06:23.940 -> 01:06:25.440] it takes a while to
[01:06:25.440 -> 01:06:32.080] get from the venue on the highway to South Beach or to Wynwood, but in Las Vegas, just like in
[01:06:32.080 -> 01:06:37.440] Singapore, you're right amongst all the venues. And so when that night race finishes, you're
[01:06:37.440 -> 01:06:42.800] walking 10 steps and you're inside the best clubs, restaurants, party spots, venues, and everything
[01:06:42.800 -> 01:06:49.520] else. So I don't know. I think- Oh, do you know what Magnus? You're monocoing me. You're telling me that I just,
[01:06:49.520 -> 01:06:53.600] I just have to be there. I will try. I will try.
[01:06:54.240 -> 01:06:58.960] I do listen. And I've said this to you before, but Monaco is it, and I know a lot of other people
[01:06:58.960 -> 01:07:04.640] have as well, but to go there, you're going to get a much different feel from the experience,
[01:07:04.640 -> 01:07:05.560] you know, and, and much different feel from the experience.
[01:07:05.560 -> 01:07:08.780] And I think the same thing will be true of Las Vegas.
[01:07:08.780 -> 01:07:13.080] But again, I feel like Las Vegas is this great thing going forth that you can go there in
[01:07:13.080 -> 01:07:17.420] another part of the year and get a little bit of F1, which I think for all these new
[01:07:17.420 -> 01:07:24.640] American fans that honestly are priced out of going to a race venue during the actual
[01:07:24.640 -> 01:07:25.120] Grand Prix.
[01:07:25.120 -> 01:07:30.400] I think that this could be something that really helps, you know, more people touch the sport.
[01:07:31.040 -> 01:07:35.760] All right. All right. I'll give it. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. I think
[01:07:36.400 -> 01:07:41.920] if I have a skepticism, it's only because all other street circuits are rubbish and
[01:07:42.720 -> 01:07:46.480] the destination cities just haven't delivered. So I've got my fingers
[01:07:46.480 -> 01:07:52.640] crossed. I can't judge the track before we've seen cars going round it. It might be an absolute
[01:07:52.640 -> 01:07:56.040] banger or it might turn out to be like the Miami layout.
[01:07:56.040 -> 01:08:01.040] Yeah, again, it's hard to say. Hard to say.
[01:08:01.040 -> 01:08:07.720] What is easy to say is that you have bullied me in the past and the last time we ran a promotion for your magazine
[01:08:07.720 -> 01:08:09.200] I was like, oh, don't worry about it
[01:08:09.200 -> 01:08:12.640] We'll just run the thing and you made me put out an offer code where I would get a commission
[01:08:12.960 -> 01:08:17.400] On the sales and that was quite a nice amount of money in support of Missed Apex
[01:08:17.400 -> 01:08:20.600] So thank you for bullying me into making some money there
[01:08:20.600 -> 01:08:23.000] And I think we're gonna try and we're gonna try and do it again
[01:08:23.000 -> 01:08:26.880] Because we sold a lot of units and people really enjoyed it. They enjoyed
[01:08:26.880 -> 01:08:33.240] the magazine. It's A3 isn't it? A3 double page. Yeah it's 15 inches by 11 inches
[01:08:33.240 -> 01:08:37.920] which is huge for a magazine. It's a big old magazine. It makes your
[01:08:37.920 -> 01:08:41.800] coffee table look posh. We have it on the sideboard. It's a, what do you call it, a
[01:08:41.800 -> 01:08:45.540] conversation piece. It makes an amazing gift.
[01:08:45.540 -> 01:08:50.220] We had our friends come over, we've not seen them for a year, the kid is a crazy McLaren
[01:08:50.220 -> 01:08:56.520] fan, I know, I know, but Lando Norris. And we gave him one of those copies that you gave
[01:08:56.520 -> 01:09:02.040] us as a birthday present. He's absolutely delighted. And like I said, I will call, join
[01:09:02.040 -> 01:09:06.320] the call from future people to have the odd perforated one so I don't
[01:09:06.320 -> 01:09:08.000] have to keep mutilating it.
[01:09:08.000 -> 01:09:11.440] But look, you've got a series of four that's already published and a series of four coming
[01:09:11.440 -> 01:09:12.440] up.
[01:09:12.440 -> 01:09:15.880] So the series of four that's just been completed is the Timeless Edition.
[01:09:15.880 -> 01:09:17.480] So tell us about that briefly.
[01:09:17.480 -> 01:09:18.480] Right.
[01:09:18.480 -> 01:09:20.680] So our approach to making a magazine is a bit different.
[01:09:20.680 -> 01:09:24.880] You know, again, we recognize 99% of fans will never go to an F1 race, they'll never
[01:09:24.880 -> 01:09:25.800] touch F1.
[01:09:25.840 -> 01:09:29.740] So that's why we make a print magazine and we, we focus each
[01:09:29.740 -> 01:09:30.900] issue on a timeless topic.
[01:09:30.900 -> 01:09:34.500] So collection one is jet set, which kind of talks about all the
[01:09:34.500 -> 01:09:36.080] different form of the one destinations.
[01:09:36.440 -> 01:09:40.580] F1 in the 1970s, which is the coolest looking decade in the formula one,
[01:09:41.080 -> 01:09:43.100] the history of F1 in the USA.
[01:09:43.460 -> 01:09:45.720] And then, uh, the most recent one that we printed,
[01:09:45.720 -> 01:09:51.440] which is Formula One World Champions, where we look at the dominant championship car and
[01:09:51.440 -> 01:09:54.920] driver since the 1950s.
[01:09:54.920 -> 01:09:59.920] So if somebody takes the magazine, they get all four issues at once.
[01:09:59.920 -> 01:10:04.960] And again, it doesn't matter when you're introduced to Race Weekend, these topics don't change.
[01:10:04.960 -> 01:10:09.340] And then now we've just announced Collection Two, which we're doing as a pre-order, and we're
[01:10:09.340 -> 01:10:12.440] focusing that on the four big Formula 1 teams.
[01:10:12.440 -> 01:10:17.300] So Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren, and Red Bull, each team is going to get its own special
[01:10:17.300 -> 01:10:18.300] issue.
[01:10:18.300 -> 01:10:27.040] And yeah, and as you said, it's a huge magazine, amazing design from my partner Tom Brown, loads of amazing photographs
[01:10:27.040 -> 01:10:28.040] and zero advertising.
[01:10:28.040 -> 01:10:29.040] There you go.
[01:10:29.040 -> 01:10:34.040] And like I said, it makes a good gift, looks good on your coffee table and Magnus bullies
[01:10:34.040 -> 01:10:38.480] me into taking a commission if you order it through our link and use the offer code SPANNERS.
[01:10:38.480 -> 01:10:39.480] SPANNERS.
[01:10:39.480 -> 01:10:40.480] SPANNERS.
[01:10:40.480 -> 01:10:43.240] Okay, but I'll put all those details in the show notes below.
[01:10:43.240 -> 01:10:47.840] We got great feedback from that last time, so consider it. I'll post some examples of stuff on my Twitter
[01:10:47.840 -> 01:10:54.080] and stuff. But Magnus, thank you for making me feel slightly, I would say, more open-minded
[01:10:54.080 -> 01:10:55.600] about Vegas.
[01:10:55.600 -> 01:11:03.240] I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by how successful the event is and how successful
[01:11:03.240 -> 01:11:06.240] the location is and important it becomes in
[01:11:06.240 -> 01:11:09.800] terms of the overall Formula One experience.
[01:11:09.800 -> 01:11:11.240] It's my home race.
[01:11:11.240 -> 01:11:17.040] Even though I'm Canadian and I love the Montreal Grand Prix, that's five hours away.
[01:11:17.040 -> 01:11:19.920] Las Vegas is two hours from Vancouver, so it's my home race as well.
[01:11:19.920 -> 01:11:21.200] Oh, it's actually closer.
[01:11:21.200 -> 01:11:26.000] But look, also, I think one of the big things is if it's a 10-year deal, it's actually closer. But look, also, I think one of the big things is, if it's a 10-year deal, it's being promoted
[01:11:26.000 -> 01:11:30.120] by Liberty Media themselves, it means it's not going away,
[01:11:30.120 -> 01:11:32.720] and it means, I mean, my fear is just constantly
[01:11:32.720 -> 01:11:35.160] that this is gonna go like live golf,
[01:11:35.160 -> 01:11:37.200] you know, that at some point F1's just gonna go,
[01:11:37.200 -> 01:11:41.920] oh, here's a bunch of Middle East money,
[01:11:41.920 -> 01:11:42.920] we're out of here.
[01:11:42.920 -> 01:11:45.680] But a 10-year investment isn't screaming that,
[01:11:45.680 -> 01:11:46.680] is it?
[01:11:46.680 -> 01:11:51.280] No. In fact, I think it could kind of go a different way, where Formula One sees the
[01:11:51.280 -> 01:11:56.800] value of owning certain races themselves and the benefit that that brings to them in the
[01:11:56.800 -> 01:12:02.040] sport, not just that weekend, but at other parts of the year, which I think is very much
[01:12:02.040 -> 01:12:06.080] in the fans' best interest. So I think that if this model is
[01:12:06.080 -> 01:12:13.760] successful, that we could see perhaps a Liberty-owned race on each continent, which serves
[01:12:13.760 -> 01:12:20.400] as a hub for fans in each of those regions, which would be amazing for all of us that love Formula 1.
[01:12:20.400 -> 01:12:28.000] And if Liberty Media are listening, if you invite me to any of those races, I will say they were good and amazing to be at.
[01:12:28.000 -> 01:12:30.000] I have no morals and I can be easily bought.
[01:12:30.000 -> 01:12:32.000] Magnus, thank you so much for your time.
[01:12:32.000 -> 01:12:39.000] We've got to get you on one of our Listener Mailbag shows so we can get your non-Vegas and non-US hot takes as well.
[01:12:39.000 -> 01:12:41.000] I would love that.
[01:12:41.000 -> 01:12:45.000] Excellent. Thank you very much for your time and join us in the Shed very soon.
[01:12:49.000 -> 01:12:55.000] And that's all from Mist Apex this week. We may have even more bonus content squeezed in for you tomorrow,
[01:12:55.000 -> 01:13:00.000] but if not, we'll see you live at 8pm after the Dutch Grand Prix on Sunday.
[01:13:00.000 -> 01:13:40.260] Until next time, work hard, be kind and and have fun. This was MissedApexPodcast. Looking for a fun way to win up to 25 times your money this football season?
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