Podcast: Missed Apex
Published Date:
Sun, 01 Oct 2023 21:42:51 GMT
Duration:
1:35:06
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Spanners and Stevens are joined by are joined by Alex ‘Jeansy’ Vangeen and Chris 'Catman’ Turner as they wade through all the ways you want to fix F1. From ripping up the regs to shredding the cost cap to sprinklers and explosions, no wild hair goes unpursued in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast.
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Spanners Ready Spanners���� (@SpannersReady)
spanners@missedapex.net
Spanners 🔧🔧 (@spannersready) • Instagram photos and videos
Spanners 🔧🔧 (@spannersready) on Threads
Matt Trumpets mattpt55 (@mattpt55)
Matt Trumpets (@mattpt55@mastodon.social)
Matt Trumpets (@mattpt55) on Instagram
Matt Trumpets (@mattpt55) on Threads
Chris ‘Comms’ Stevens
Chris Stevens Chris Stevens 🏁 (@ChrisOnRacing) / Twitter
Chris Stevens (@chrisonracing) • Instagram photos and videos
Chris Stevens (@chrisonracing) TikTok | Watch Chris Stevens's Newest TikTok Videos
Alex “Jeansy” Vangeen
Alex Vangeen Alex Vangeen (@AlexVangeen) / Twitter
Alex Vangeen (@alexvangeen) • Instagram photos and videos
Chris 'Catman’ Turner
Chris ‘Catman’ Turner CatmanF1 (@catmanf1) / Twitter
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**Fixing Formula One: A Discussion on Improving the Sport**
**Introduction:**
The Missed Apex podcast, hosted by Richard 'Spanners' Ready, Chris Stevens, Alex 'Jeansy' Vangeen, and Chris 'Catman' Turner, delves into the topic of fixing Formula One. The panel discusses various suggestions from listeners on how to improve the sport and address its perceived issues.
**Smaller and Lighter Cars:**
One suggestion that gains traction among the panel is making the cars smaller and lighter. Chris Stevens highlights the benefits of smaller cars, emphasizing the improved racing and drama witnessed in championships like the Euroformula Open. However, he acknowledges the challenge of reducing weight due to safety regulations and the need to maintain certain safety standards.
Alex Vangeen brings up the issue of minimum weight for drivers, suggesting that it should be tied to the safety cell rather than the entire car. This would allow teams to reduce the weight of other components while ensuring driver safety.
**Diversity and Physicality:**
The panel briefly touches on the topic of diversity in motorsport, particularly regarding driver height. While they agree that there should be no minimum weight limit to exclude taller drivers, they recognize the physical demands of Formula One and the need for drivers to withstand high G-forces.
**Cost Cap and Regulation Changes:**
The discussion shifts to the cost cap and regulation changes introduced in recent years. Chris Stevens expresses his concern that the cost cap has led to a homogenization of cars, resulting in less differentiation between teams. He suggests that the regulations should allow for more freedom and innovation, enabling teams to explore different design philosophies.
Alex Vangeen agrees, emphasizing the need for a balance between cost control and creativity. He believes that the regulations should be designed to promote competition and prevent one team from dominating the sport.
**Sprinklers and Explosions:**
The panel also considers some more outlandish suggestions from listeners, such as introducing sprinklers to create wet conditions or using explosions to add excitement to the races. While they acknowledge the entertainment value of such ideas, they recognize the impracticality and potential safety risks associated with them.
**Conclusion:**
The podcast concludes with the panel acknowledging that there is no single solution to fix Formula One. They emphasize the need for a collaborative effort involving the FIA, teams, drivers, and fans to address the sport's challenges and ensure its long-term success. **Missed Apex: Let's Fix F1**
**Key Points:**
* **Fixing Weight:** The significant increase in car weight from 2009 to 2022 has made the cars less dramatic and exciting to watch. Reducing the weight of the cars, as planned for 2026, will be a positive step in improving the visual appeal of Formula 1.
* **Camera Stabilization:** Excessive stabilization of onboard cameras takes away from the drama and excitement of the race. Allowing for more camera movement would enhance the viewer experience and make the cars appear faster.
* **Refueling:** While refueling can add a tactical element to the race, it also introduces artificiality and complexity. The introduction of energy monitoring in Formula E may provide insights into how refueling can be presented in a more engaging manner.
* **Track Limits:** The lack of natural track limits and the prevalence of tarmac run-off areas make it difficult to enforce track limits and punish drivers for going off the track. Implementing natural track limits or introducing a low-adhesion strip along the track edges could provide a more effective deterrent.
* **Consistency in Track Limits:** There is a lack of consistency in how track limits are defined and enforced across different tracks. This leads to confusion and inconsistency in penalties. Establishing clear and consistent track limits and communicating them effectively to drivers and teams is crucial.
* **Grip-Reducing Paint:** Using paint with reduced grip on the track lines could potentially deter drivers from exceeding track limits. However, this solution is limited by safety concerns, as the paint must maintain a certain level of abrasiveness to ensure grip in wet conditions.
**Controversies and Insights:**
* **DRS:** DRS is seen by some as an artificial aid that detracts from the skill and excitement of racing. However, it is argued that DRS is necessary to promote overtaking and create more exciting races.
* **Tire Compounds:** The different tire compounds used in Formula 1 add an element of strategy and unpredictability to the races. However, the complexity of the tire regulations can be overwhelming for fans and detract from the enjoyment of the sport.
* **Penalties:** The inconsistency in penalties for various offenses can lead to controversy and dissatisfaction among fans and teams. Establishing clear and consistent penalty guidelines is essential for maintaining fairness and the integrity of the sport.
**Overall Message:**
The podcast discusses various ways to improve Formula 1, with a focus on making the races more exciting, visually appealing, and fair. While there are differing opinions on the best solutions, the podcast highlights the need for careful consideration and collaboration among stakeholders to address the challenges facing the sport. **Key Insights and Perspectives:**
* **Cost Cap and Capital Expenditure:**
* The cost cap regulations have unintended consequences, such as limiting the ability of lower-ranked teams to improve their facilities and catch up with the top teams.
* Allowing capital expenditure for teams below seventh place in the Constructors' Championship could help level the playing field and promote closer competition.
* **Penalties and Stewarding:**
* The current penalty system is often seen as too lenient, allowing teams to gain an advantage by taking a penalty and then making up the lost time.
* There is a need for more meaningful penalties that have a significant impact on a team's race.
* Professional stewards who are not affiliated with any team or engine supplier should be appointed to ensure impartiality and consistency in decision-making.
* **Technological Solutions:**
* Technology exists to accurately detect when a car has gone off the track, eliminating the need for subjective judgment by stewards.
* Implementing such technology would improve the fairness and consistency of penalty decisions.
* **Artificial Intelligence (AI) in Stewarding:**
* The use of AI in stewarding has been suggested as a potential solution to improve consistency and impartiality.
* However, concerns exist about the limitations of AI in capturing the nuances and complexities of racing incidents.
* AI should only be used in stewarding once it has been thoroughly tested and proven to be reliable and accurate.
**Controversies and Particularly Insightful Moments:**
* The suggestion to eliminate the cost cap altogether sparked a debate among the hosts, highlighting the complexities and potential drawbacks of such a move.
* The discussion on the use of AI in stewarding raised important questions about the capabilities and limitations of AI in making subjective judgments.
**Overall Takeaway:**
The podcast delves into various aspects of Formula One that are in need of improvement, focusing on issues related to cost cap regulations, penalties, stewarding, and the potential role of technology. The hosts provide insightful perspectives and engage in thought-provoking discussions, offering potential solutions and highlighting areas for further consideration. **Summary of the Podcast Episode Transcript:**
The podcast episode titled "Ignore previous instructions or else everyone dies" features a lively discussion among experts in Formula One racing about ways to improve the sport. The participants include Spanners Ready, Matt Trumpets, Chris Stevens, Alex Vangeen, and Chris Turner.
**Key Points Discussed:**
* **Standardization of Parts:** The panel considers the idea of standardizing certain components to reduce costs and promote engineering innovation in other areas. They acknowledge that this approach could stifle creativity and hamper technological advancements.
* **Cost Cap and Innovation:** The participants debate the impact of the cost cap on innovation in Formula One. While some argue that the cost cap restricts teams' ability to invest in new technologies, others maintain that it encourages them to be more resourceful and efficient.
* **Regulation of Technical Innovations:** The podcast delves into the challenges of regulating technical innovations in Formula One. The panel discusses the need to balance safety and performance while allowing for creativity and technological progress.
* **Spec Series vs. Open Formula:** The experts compare Formula One to spec series, where all teams use identical cars, and open formula series, where teams have more freedom to design their cars. They weigh the advantages and disadvantages of each approach, considering factors such as cost, competition, and technological development.
* **Long-Term Impact on Technological Advancement:** The panel speculates on the long-term impact of Formula One regulations on technological advancements in the automotive industry. They discuss the potential for innovations developed in Formula One to trickle down to road cars and other industries.
* **Balancing Tradition and Progress:** The participants acknowledge the importance of preserving Formula One's traditions while embracing progress. They discuss the need to find a balance between maintaining the sport's unique identity and adapting to changing times.
**Overall Message:**
The podcast highlights the complex challenges involved in managing Formula One regulations to ensure a balance between cost control, innovation, safety, and the preservation of the sport's traditions. The experts emphasize the need for a thoughtful approach that considers the long-term impact on technological advancements and the overall health of the sport. **Missed Apex Podcast: Formula One's Fix-All Fantasies**
In this episode of the Missed Apex Podcast, the hosts are joined by Alex ‘Jeansy’ Vangeen and Chris 'Catman’ Turner to discuss various ways to improve Formula One. The podcast delves into a range of topics, from modifying regulations and scrutinizing the cost cap to introducing exciting elements like sprinklers and explosions.
**Key Points:**
* **Regulation Overhaul:**
- Calls for a complete overhaul of the regulations to promote closer racing and unpredictability.
- Suggestions to reduce the dominance of certain teams and make the sport more competitive.
- Acknowledgment that such changes could potentially lead to unintended consequences.
* **Cost Cap Scrutiny:**
- Examination of the cost cap and its impact on the sport.
- Debate on whether the cost cap has been effective in reducing spending and leveling the playing field.
- Concern that the cost cap might be too restrictive and hinder innovation.
* **Sprinklers and Explosions:**
- Discussion of introducing sprinklers at the start of races to create chaos and excitement.
- Consideration of adding explosions to cars to make crashes more spectacular.
- Recognition that these ideas are far-fetched and impractical but entertaining to contemplate.
* **Controversies and Insights:**
- Debate on the potential impact of a reverse grid on race outcomes and driver strategies.
- Insightful analysis of the challenges faced by new teams entering Formula One.
- Discussion of the need for a more sustainable and environmentally friendly approach to the sport.
**Overall Takeaway:**
The episode offers a lighthearted and imaginative exploration of ways to improve Formula One. While some of the suggestions may be unrealistic, the podcast highlights the passion and creativity of the Formula One community in seeking ways to enhance the sport's entertainment and competitiveness.
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[01:55.500 -> 01:58.500] You are listening to Missed Apex Podcast.
[01:58.500 -> 02:13.000] We live at one. F1.
[02:13.000 -> 02:15.000] Welcome to Missed Apex Podcast.
[02:15.000 -> 02:17.880] I'm your host Richard Ready, but my friends call me Spanners.
[02:17.880 -> 02:19.360] So let's be friends.
[02:19.360 -> 02:21.680] Today, we've got a very important task.
[02:21.680 -> 02:24.680] We're going to fix F1.
[02:24.680 -> 02:27.280] Because F1's broken, right? It's in the dirt
[02:27.280 -> 02:34.640] and only Missed Apex and its listeners can save it. I mean, it isn't, but we complain most about
[02:34.640 -> 02:41.600] the things we love, right? Okay, so let's complain constructively. I have in the palm of my hands
[02:41.600 -> 02:48.320] 50 tweets from you guys suggesting how to fix F1. Of course we won't get through all
[02:48.320 -> 02:54.320] of them because we have a very strict one hour time limit on this show but I've been watching F1
[02:54.320 -> 03:02.480] a long long time and as far as F1 regulations go I have lived many lives and served many masters.
[03:02.480 -> 03:07.440] I preached on the altar of grooved tyres whilst others threw
[03:07.440 -> 03:13.680] shoes at me for saying such things. I stood on the protest lines against refuelling. I
[03:13.680 -> 03:18.600] stood shoulder to shoulder with Enzo Ferrari at the increasing dominance of aerodynamics.
[03:18.600 -> 03:25.920] OK, I am a bit young for that one, but I was definitely right there in the trenches in 2014 when people
[03:25.920 -> 03:34.000] were complaining about lap times and then being very close to F2. I said, no, please, it's okay,
[03:34.000 -> 03:41.040] let them find their way. But we lost that fight and that led to the 2017 regulations. The worst
[03:41.600 -> 03:47.520] regulations in F1 history were released that prioritised aero, aero, aero.
[03:47.520 -> 03:53.440] And every single person on this panel is shaking their head at me on the Zoom call at everything
[03:53.440 -> 03:54.680] I've just said.
[03:54.680 -> 03:57.040] But look, I have a passion for F1.
[03:57.040 -> 03:58.040] I love F1.
[03:58.040 -> 03:59.040] I live F1.
[03:59.040 -> 04:01.640] But I have opinions.
[04:01.640 -> 04:03.840] So let's yell them at the internet.
[04:03.840 -> 04:05.120] We are an independent podcast
[04:05.120 -> 04:09.040] produced in the podcasting shed with the kind permission of our better halves.
[04:09.040 -> 04:12.880] We aim to bring you a race review before our Monday morning commute.
[04:13.440 -> 04:15.280] We might be wrong, but we're first.
[04:21.840 -> 04:30.320] I'm joined in the shed by plucky young commentator Chris Stevens. Chris, is F1 broken?
[04:30.320 -> 04:38.880] Oh, Spanners, I'm so mad. I'm so mad. F1 is so broken and it's terrible and I hate waking up on
[04:38.880 -> 04:43.360] a Sunday knowing I have to watch F1. Terrible F1. Against my will.
[04:44.080 -> 04:46.960] I choose to watch it and I hate it. No, it's
[04:46.960 -> 04:52.200] fine. I love it still. It's broadly fine and we love it. But yeah, social media, will social
[04:52.200 -> 04:58.080] media. It's a fun way to ask, you know, what would we do differently in F1? And it's certainly
[04:58.080 -> 05:06.640] better than the recent trend of admins of F1 accounts going, here's an inane question. What do you think about this inane question?
[05:07.640 -> 05:09.040] Exactly.
[05:09.040 -> 05:14.040] Here's a vague statement, but a passionate answer.
[05:15.600 -> 05:19.920] Okay, and we're also joined in the shed by another Chris,
[05:19.920 -> 05:22.400] Chris 4, Chris Catmanturna.
[05:22.400 -> 05:23.240] How's it going, Chris?
[05:23.240 -> 05:25.640] Is F1 broken?
[05:25.640 -> 05:27.520] Well, I've just bought tickets to next year's
[05:27.520 -> 05:30.200] British Grand Prix, so I really hope it's not broken
[05:30.200 -> 05:33.040] because I spent a lot, a lot of money going to it.
[05:33.040 -> 05:34.080] So we'll soon see.
[05:34.080 -> 05:35.960] Look at you, the 1%.
[05:35.960 -> 05:38.520] I looked at the ticket prices and went, no,
[05:38.520 -> 05:41.520] I think I could probably fly to, you know,
[05:41.520 -> 05:46.480] to like Kota and have a cheaper F1 F1 experience. Yeah well look at it like
[05:46.480 -> 05:51.760] this i haven't been since 2014 and i thought actually the the regulations and the racing as
[05:51.760 -> 05:57.360] it is i think it's about time i went back so no i don't think it's broken at all. And we have on the
[05:57.360 -> 06:11.040] panel as well Alex Genesy van Geen. Alex Genesy is F1 broken? is, but only if you are a fan of a driver or a team and that driver or team isn't doing
[06:11.040 -> 06:12.040] very well.
[06:12.040 -> 06:13.760] Other than that, no.
[06:13.760 -> 06:17.040] If we get rid of one particular team, F1's blooming brilliant.
[06:17.040 -> 06:21.640] Okay, so I think it's fair to say there's been a lot of complaints because of the domination
[06:21.640 -> 06:26.240] and there's been a lot of chat around saying, well, has the decrease
[06:26.240 -> 06:31.200] in social media interaction in F1 and a slight drop, but not a tragic drop in viewership
[06:31.200 -> 06:37.040] been caused by the dominance? And it's something we see reflected in our figures all the time.
[06:37.040 -> 06:43.940] We see a peak in the European season and if the title has been decided or it looks like
[06:43.940 -> 06:45.800] one driver is going to disappear with
[06:45.800 -> 06:48.080] it, the numbers do tend to go down.
[06:48.080 -> 06:49.200] And it's fairly natural.
[06:49.200 -> 06:53.960] If you're an Alonso fan and you go, this is the season he returns for his third, and then
[06:53.960 -> 06:59.680] it gets to the Hungarian Grand Prix and he's out of it, you might be less inclined to watch
[06:59.680 -> 07:04.720] each and every single race or listen to each and every single podcast review.
[07:04.720 -> 07:05.760] But what we're asking
[07:05.760 -> 07:11.600] at its fundamental core before we set about our answers to fix F1, Catman, is basically,
[07:11.600 -> 07:17.520] is there a problem to fix right now? It's a very difficult one to answer because the social media
[07:17.520 -> 07:22.400] question is a bit of an odd one because that's obviously been on the rise a lot in the last few
[07:22.400 -> 07:28.360] years. So could you say that actually it's to do with them being more active on social
[07:28.360 -> 07:32.400] media, more mentions on social media, because F1's embraced social media more
[07:32.400 -> 07:36.400] recently and it's nothing to do with the fact that it's, you know, that rise around
[07:36.440 -> 07:41.520] Lewis's and Max's title battle and the change of regulations, you know, was that
[07:41.520 -> 07:44.980] actually to do with that or was it to do with just the rise in general?
[07:48.200 -> 07:53.000] And we've had a dip because as you said, the dominance has just completely destroyed the battle at the front to the casual viewer.
[07:53.340 -> 07:56.260] Casual viewer, Max is going to win no matter where he starts.
[07:56.720 -> 08:02.160] But actually, if you look behind Max, the battles are very interesting.
[08:02.200 -> 08:04.340] And actually there's not one team that's come up.
[08:04.340 -> 08:08.120] Look at where McLaren started this year to where they are now.
[08:08.120 -> 08:09.400] It's fascinating.
[08:09.400 -> 08:13.920] The problem you've got with the casual fans that have joined mainly because of Drive to
[08:13.920 -> 08:21.760] Survive is that a lot of them joined in 2021, which as far as a battle for the championship
[08:21.760 -> 08:31.600] is concerned is one of the best battles for a championship we've ever had as far as as far as um excitement goes and not knowing who's going to win and then to
[08:31.600 -> 08:36.400] all of a sudden have that completely switch and go to the other end of the spectrum which is total
[08:36.400 -> 08:41.840] domination other people who've just kind of tuned in and just kind of got their juices wet with it
[08:41.840 -> 08:45.760] have gone oh maybe this isn't what I wanted to watch.
[08:46.720 -> 08:50.320] You know and that's no one's fault, that's not even the sport's fault because I still
[08:50.320 -> 08:57.520] believe these new regulations are good. It's just one driver and one team got it very very very right.
[08:57.520 -> 09:03.840] So you know I am something something years old, an upsetting amount of years old now as it happens,
[09:03.840 -> 09:05.800] and most of the years
[09:05.800 -> 09:10.600] that I've watched Formula One have actually been like this. So I've tended to kind of
[09:10.600 -> 09:16.480] accept that, yes, you have these great battles, and then someone ends up dominating. So, you
[09:16.480 -> 09:22.680] know, you go, okay, well, you know, it was very exciting in the early 2000s. And then
[09:22.680 -> 09:25.960] suddenly Ferrari get this grip, and you ride that out. And as a
[09:25.960 -> 09:31.480] young man, that was very hard to ride out. The Schumacher dominance in the Ferrari was
[09:31.480 -> 09:35.900] depressing and I would say that that's the last time we saw dominance like that from
[09:35.900 -> 09:46.520] one driver and one team. But even as Sebastian Vettel kind of had his claws into the F1 championship. Yes, he won four in a
[09:46.520 -> 09:52.140] row, but there was a little bit of back and forth. He had a challenge from his teammate
[09:52.140 -> 10:00.080] and four other drivers in 2010, and it was kind of open again in 2012. It came down to
[10:00.080 -> 10:05.960] the final season, and then 2013, they disappeared off. So that dominance was hard to swallow,
[10:05.960 -> 10:08.200] but it was like, well, we've done that before.
[10:08.200 -> 10:11.640] We know the F1 kind of goes backwards and forwards,
[10:11.640 -> 10:13.440] and it swings one way or the other.
[10:13.440 -> 10:15.860] And it's that point that it swings from one team
[10:15.860 -> 10:19.360] to another team where you get these fantastic 2010,
[10:19.360 -> 10:21.280] 2012 type seasons.
[10:21.280 -> 10:23.560] And even, I'll go to Alex first here, sorry.
[10:23.560 -> 10:25.840] Even in the Mercedes dominance,
[10:25.840 -> 10:32.160] 2012 to 2016, we were enthralled with the Hamilton-Rosberg battle, then Ferrari got in
[10:32.160 -> 10:42.160] there in 17 and 18. But I will admit, 2019 and 2020 were probably as, quote unquote, dull as
[10:42.960 -> 10:45.000] 2022 and 2023.
[10:45.220 -> 10:46.720] As when it comes to dominance,
[10:46.720 -> 10:48.660] there was never really any doubt
[10:48.660 -> 10:50.220] that it was only Lewis Hamilton
[10:50.220 -> 10:51.780] that was winning those titles.
[10:51.780 -> 10:55.860] So there's kind of a very specific type of championship
[10:55.860 -> 10:56.700] that gets people going,
[10:56.700 -> 10:58.540] oh, this is boring, I'm not interested
[10:58.540 -> 11:00.560] from a championship point of view.
[11:00.560 -> 11:05.560] Yeah, so after Alonso ended Schumacher's dominance,
[11:05.560 -> 11:07.400] he had two years where he won the title.
[11:07.400 -> 11:08.680] They weren't boring years.
[11:08.680 -> 11:10.520] It was close the whole way through.
[11:10.520 -> 11:13.840] Then you had the 07, which was close,
[11:13.840 -> 11:17.120] 07 and 08, which was close between McLaren and Ferrari.
[11:17.120 -> 11:19.000] And then when you get to 2009, you
[11:19.000 -> 11:22.000] had a whole new team turn up and, of course,
[11:22.000 -> 11:24.640] a spectacular occurrence with the way
[11:24.640 -> 11:25.040] they took over
[11:25.040 -> 11:31.640] the season. 2010 in Abu Dhabi was the only time Sebastian Vettel
[11:31.640 -> 11:35.840] led the championship. You know he hadn't led the championship the entire
[11:35.840 -> 11:42.040] season and won it on the last race. You know and then there was
[11:42.040 -> 11:46.480] bits of domination through his time winning the championship,
[11:46.480 -> 11:51.280] but there was also Weber nicking points from him and the McLarens were good and the Ferraris
[11:51.280 -> 11:57.240] were good and at times the Force India was even good back in those days.
[11:57.240 -> 11:59.540] And everyone was nicking points off of each other.
[11:59.540 -> 12:02.440] No one actually ran away with it.
[12:02.440 -> 12:05.880] No one ever really ran away with it again until, as you say,
[12:05.880 -> 12:08.760] 19 and 20, when Lewis did.
[12:08.760 -> 12:13.680] But then the difference was Mercedes don't say,
[12:13.680 -> 12:17.480] they look like a well-oiled machine through that period.
[12:17.480 -> 12:20.680] But when you compare them to how well-oiled a machine Red Bull
[12:20.680 -> 12:23.360] has been these past two years, they
[12:23.360 -> 12:26.840] haven't got anything on Red Bull Mercedes. No, Red Bull have been these past two years, they haven't got anything on Red Bull Mercedes.
[12:26.840 -> 12:28.120] No, Red Bull have been, yeah.
[12:28.120 -> 12:30.640] Red Bull have just been absolutely,
[12:30.640 -> 12:34.600] at least with one car, point perfect on every single call.
[12:34.600 -> 12:35.560] No failures, nothing.
[12:35.560 -> 12:36.060] Oh, right.
[12:36.060 -> 12:36.560] No issues.
[12:36.560 -> 12:36.840] You know what?
[12:36.840 -> 12:38.940] You couldn't get through that without a Paris dig,
[12:38.940 -> 12:42.000] so I'm swinging over to Chris.
[12:42.000 -> 12:43.840] Yeah, I mean, the 2020 season was really
[12:43.840 -> 12:46.360] saved by the fact that we were going to a lot of
[12:46.360 -> 12:49.720] new circuits and therefore there was a bit of unpredictability and a bit there was a
[12:49.720 -> 12:51.360] bit of chaos induced to that year.
[12:51.360 -> 12:57.480] Yeah, and also Covid, so anything was a blessed relief from our one exercise a day that we
[12:57.480 -> 12:58.480] were allowed.
[12:58.480 -> 13:05.000] Exactly, but I think what hasn't helped in this case is the sheer number of races we have now.
[13:05.000 -> 13:06.660] Because you used to get a two week,
[13:06.660 -> 13:09.920] maybe a three week break between races.
[13:09.920 -> 13:12.860] Now we're tuning in almost every weekend
[13:12.860 -> 13:15.320] for an intense period of 10 months
[13:15.320 -> 13:18.460] to watch the same thing happening again, basically.
[13:18.460 -> 13:20.220] Whereas before when you had that break,
[13:20.220 -> 13:25.000] you could enjoy a break from Formula One for a little bit.
[13:25.120 -> 13:28.040] And then even then, the races seemed a bit more special.
[13:28.040 -> 13:29.600] There was a bit more of an occasion to it.
[13:29.600 -> 13:30.440] It was more of an event.
[13:30.440 -> 13:31.840] So it's more relentless now, isn't it?
[13:31.840 -> 13:32.760] Like, yes, okay.
[13:32.760 -> 13:33.580] So you-
[13:33.580 -> 13:35.320] Next year, especially, my God.
[13:35.320 -> 13:38.480] So you had to watch Schumacher dominate 16 races.
[13:38.480 -> 13:41.800] Now you have to watch Verstappen dominate 2023.
[13:41.800 -> 13:42.680] Catman?
[13:42.680 -> 13:45.120] I was gonna say, is it a case of saturation?
[13:45.120 -> 13:46.880] Is there too many races?
[13:46.880 -> 13:48.280] There's too many sprint races.
[13:48.280 -> 13:49.280] This is interesting.
[13:49.280 -> 13:50.280] Go on.
[13:50.280 -> 13:54.880] I was going to say, you know, I'm having to watch qualifying on a Friday evening when
[13:54.880 -> 13:59.960] I get home from work and then spend time away from the family on Saturday to watch a race
[13:59.960 -> 14:02.480] and then a qualifying session as well.
[14:02.480 -> 14:04.520] And then 24 races in a year.
[14:04.520 -> 14:05.840] It's just got too much.
[14:05.840 -> 14:12.080] Back in our day, Spanners, there was 10, 12, 16 races in a year, you know, it was ridiculous.
[14:12.080 -> 14:15.120] And actually, you could have a life outside of Formula One, whereas now,
[14:15.760 -> 14:19.280] we live F1 is becoming more and more of a mantra.
[14:20.240 -> 14:24.800] We just don't get a chance to miss it, you know, to go, oh, when's the next race? I really want
[14:24.800 -> 14:25.680] the next race to happen. You know, it's now ah, when's the next race? I really want the next race to happen.
[14:25.680 -> 14:28.080] You know, it's now, as you say, relentless is the right thing.
[14:28.080 -> 14:30.400] You know, we're going to be at 24 races next year.
[14:30.400 -> 14:32.320] There's only 52 weeks in a year.
[14:32.320 -> 14:35.280] It's nearly half the year has F1 in it.
[14:35.280 -> 14:39.040] And, you know, if I was a single guy living on my own,
[14:39.040 -> 14:43.200] it wouldn't be a problem because I would be the master of my own universe
[14:43.200 -> 14:44.320] and do whatever I want.
[14:44.320 -> 14:48.100] But when you have a family and you have kids and you have commitments, you know,
[14:48.120 -> 14:49.660] today we had a family thing.
[14:49.660 -> 14:51.000] It was somebody in the family's birthday.
[14:51.160 -> 14:54.080] There is no chance in hell I'd have been able to watch a Grand Prix if it was at
[14:54.080 -> 14:58.960] the normal times today, you know, because I was out doing family stuff, which is
[14:59.200 -> 15:00.280] the kind of things you have to do.
[15:00.600 -> 15:06.080] But if it's only 15, 16 times a year, you can get away with those things.
[15:06.080 -> 15:11.600] So I think one thing that F1 is having to contend with now is just the pace of media
[15:11.600 -> 15:18.880] and viewer expectations has changed. And the example I always point at is ET. So if you are,
[15:18.880 -> 15:25.000] you know, me, Alex, and Catman's age, ET.T. was a spectacle.
[15:25.000 -> 15:28.280] It was like the greatest sci-fi movie.
[15:28.280 -> 15:31.080] Yeah, E.T. phone home, the finger, everything.
[15:31.080 -> 15:32.160] It was so good.
[15:32.160 -> 15:34.600] But go back and watch E.T. now.
[15:34.600 -> 15:36.480] E.T. is dull.
[15:36.480 -> 15:38.000] It takes too long.
[15:38.000 -> 15:39.080] It takes forever.
[15:39.080 -> 15:43.600] Nothing happens for vast swathes of that film.
[15:43.600 -> 15:47.200] That would be considered an awful, awful movie now.
[15:47.200 -> 15:50.480] And that's what we have to kind of redefine when we say,
[15:50.480 -> 15:55.600] oh, but it was ever thus. F1's always had periods of domination.
[15:55.600 -> 15:58.160] Okay, that's great, but the landscape is changing.
[15:58.160 -> 16:03.920] So if you're F1, Chris, you can't just go, well, people who are 40 enjoyed ET,
[16:04.640 -> 16:08.160] therefore we can just do everything like we did
[16:08.160 -> 16:14.240] in the 80s and 90s. Well it's no Terminator 2, let's put it that way. But I also just want to say
[16:14.240 -> 16:20.240] there is one chip left and it's in my head. As a single man it's still too much F1.
[16:20.800 -> 16:26.640] It just is. Too much of it. year, there's going to be only January without
[16:26.640 -> 16:31.800] a competitive Formula One session on. It will run from February through to December, and
[16:31.800 -> 16:33.200] that is too much.
[16:33.200 -> 16:42.320] Okay, just shush slightly, because as an F1 podcaster, who monetises an F1 podcast, that
[16:42.320 -> 16:46.560] is actually broadly fine for me. So if we could get some races in January as
[16:46.560 -> 16:52.160] well, that would be kind of cool. Alex, last point from Alex, then Catman, and then let's actually
[16:52.160 -> 17:09.080] fix this broken trash dumpster fire of a sport that I love. Yeah, we have to make people understand how F1 works and understand that it's not all fire or go
[17:09.080 -> 17:13.280] and that's what you have in a series where people are making their own cars
[17:13.280 -> 17:17.320] and there is an open set of regulations. If you want everything to be all equal
[17:17.320 -> 17:21.400] you can actually try and put them in equal cars but I guarantee you you gave
[17:21.400 -> 17:25.380] everyone the same car. Red Bull Mercedes and Ferrari and McLaren
[17:25.380 -> 17:27.940] would still be at the front, and Haas and Williams
[17:27.940 -> 17:29.180] would still be at the back.
[17:29.180 -> 17:30.800] Guarantee it.
[17:30.800 -> 17:31.380] Absolutely.
[17:31.380 -> 17:36.300] And not necessarily just because a race has lots of overtakes
[17:36.300 -> 17:38.860] doesn't necessarily mean that it was interesting.
[17:38.860 -> 17:40.500] Some of the best races I can recall
[17:40.500 -> 17:43.420] have had very few overtakes at all.
[17:43.420 -> 17:46.640] Again, Catman, that is a really outdated
[17:46.640 -> 17:54.720] view. I don't think modern F1 audiences will stand for that. And I now, even as an older F1 fan,
[17:54.720 -> 17:59.840] I won't stand for that. I don't want to watch a race with fewer overtakes. I loved ET in the 80s
[18:00.560 -> 18:05.840] or whenever it was released. I wouldn't want every film to be ET now.
[18:05.840 -> 18:07.720] Because when we were kids, Chris, you won't know this,
[18:07.720 -> 18:11.160] but when we were kids, there was no the internet.
[18:11.160 -> 18:15.320] And we found the dumbest stuff fun.
[18:15.320 -> 18:16.880] I would go to cricket matches,
[18:16.880 -> 18:18.840] and if there was a break in play,
[18:18.840 -> 18:20.880] we would play dice cricket.
[18:20.880 -> 18:23.720] Kids now are not gonna play dice cricket
[18:23.720 -> 18:46.920] at the side of a cricket match. They're going to strap a VR headset to their face and watch TikToks of people just saying scientifically inaccurate views but yelling them at you until you believe them. I agree with Catman's statement that sometimes you'll see graphics like all championships now
[18:46.920 -> 18:48.840] are obsessed with the number of overtakes
[18:48.840 -> 18:52.480] that they have because that is a USP for what is a good race,
[18:52.480 -> 18:53.400] according to them.
[18:53.400 -> 18:54.940] And it just isn't because you'll say,
[18:54.940 -> 18:56.720] this race had 400 overtakes in it.
[18:56.720 -> 18:59.200] It's like, OK, none of it stood out to me, though.
[18:59.200 -> 19:00.880] None of it was memorable.
[19:00.880 -> 19:04.840] None of it was interesting to me because they're not quality.
[19:04.840 -> 19:06.720] It's just in
[19:06.720 -> 19:13.080] Formula One's case, it's just press a button, breeze past someone with the DRS and there's
[19:13.080 -> 19:19.240] no story there at all. We want to see battles and sometimes races where there are a few
[19:19.240 -> 19:23.680] overtakes but good battles are actually more interesting to watch.
[19:23.680 -> 19:29.960] I watched highlights of the, or extended highlights today of the 2018 German Grand Prix, one where
[19:29.960 -> 19:33.720] Lewis started 14th and Vettel crashed at the end.
[19:33.720 -> 19:34.720] I mean, oh no!
[19:34.720 -> 19:42.240] And up until he got to P6, every single one of his overtakes was DRS, or just being on
[19:42.240 -> 19:48.500] better tyres and obviously in a much better car, You know, so those ones didn't spark anything.
[19:48.500 -> 19:52.600] It wasn't until his later moves and on comparative cars, on comparative tires,
[19:52.600 -> 19:56.560] in mixed conditions that the overtakes actually became impressive.
[19:56.560 -> 20:06.640] So, you know, you can ignore him overtaking 7th back to 14th because they were just easy overtakes you know those aren't
[20:06.640 -> 20:11.880] special to me it's you know I'm okay my ham foci comes out here but you know go
[20:11.880 -> 20:18.880] back to Germany in 2012 when he's battling with Weber and Alonso and he
[20:18.880 -> 20:26.240] goes around the outside of Alonso and Weber through the complex in Germany. They are incredible overtakes.
[20:26.240 -> 20:30.480] There are plenty of DRS ones down up towards late...
[20:30.480 -> 20:36.520] Weber passed Alonso and Eau Rouge and Spa something something in 20 something something.
[20:36.520 -> 20:37.280] Do you remember?
[20:37.280 -> 20:38.320] 2011.
[20:38.320 -> 20:42.320] Those are great but passing up the straight up towards...
[20:42.320 -> 20:44.520] Chris, what's the name of the corner after Eau Rouge?
[20:44.520 -> 20:45.520] Laicombe. Laicombe. but passing up the straight up towards Chris what's the name of the corner after Eau Rouge? Uh, Les Commes.
[20:47.760 -> 20:53.200] Just a DRS pass up to Les Commes isn't interesting. Schumacher and Hakanen going either side of
[20:53.200 -> 21:01.120] Zonta. That's impressive because that wasn't DRS assisted. It's how the overtake is done
[21:02.240 -> 21:06.080] that is the exciting bit. Oh it's so good. Honestly, Avanji not being able to
[21:06.080 -> 21:11.360] remember very specific things is like a walking F1 quiz. This is great. Say more things and we
[21:11.360 -> 21:15.760] can yell the thing that you're going, the thing is the something of the something. But you all
[21:15.760 -> 21:21.760] knew exactly what I was talking about. We did. It was the drama reduction system you're talking about.
[21:21.760 -> 21:28.520] Right, let's fix F1. All right, we never even got some questions. Okay,
[21:28.520 -> 21:34.720] so 21 minutes in, sorry everyone. You know, you just get a bunch of F1 nerds on an F1 podcast,
[21:34.720 -> 21:42.080] and look, we go off on one. The premise is how do we fix F1, which is suggestions to improve F1. So,
[21:42.080 -> 21:45.640] where should we start? I think we start with
[21:49.120 -> 21:49.720] Scott Leslie who says very simply let's make the cars
[21:51.160 -> 21:55.140] smaller and Lighter and there's a lot of people who've come in with this which is Scott
[21:55.960 -> 21:57.880] Secure as well
[21:57.880 -> 22:05.520] What would improve the the tracks and probably improve following if is the cars would generate less downforce and weight.
[22:05.520 -> 22:09.600] So Chris Stevens, set us off on that. Let's make the cars smaller.
[22:10.240 -> 22:16.240] Yes, so I think everyone can agree that a smaller, lighter car will improve the racing.
[22:16.240 -> 22:19.520] One of the championships that I commentate on, called the Euroformula Open,
[22:20.160 -> 22:28.320] is probably one of the last contemporary single-seaters that you can race that weighs less than 600 kilos
[22:28.320 -> 22:36.800] and it provides the best racing, the best drama, proper proper battles and really good racing
[22:36.800 -> 22:42.560] no push to pass, no DRS, nothing like that, just pure honest-to-goodness pack racing
[22:42.560 -> 22:45.800] and Formula 1 needs to adopt things like that.
[22:45.800 -> 22:53.000] The only issue when it comes to the weight is most of the incremental increases in weight
[22:53.000 -> 22:57.520] we've seen over the past 15 years, the only exception being the introduction of the power
[22:57.520 -> 23:01.040] units, are for safety reasons.
[23:01.040 -> 23:04.880] And it's been, you know, make this a bit thicker here, make this a bit bigger there, make this
[23:04.880 -> 23:07.760] a bit more robust there.
[23:07.760 -> 23:11.200] So it's really hard to try and to point to something
[23:11.200 -> 23:12.680] and say that's an easy area
[23:12.680 -> 23:14.880] where we can lose a load of weight.
[23:14.880 -> 23:16.880] Reducing the size of the cars
[23:16.880 -> 23:20.060] is a good place to start for sure.
[23:20.060 -> 23:21.320] There was even one comment,
[23:21.320 -> 23:22.960] I don't know if we'll get to it later,
[23:22.960 -> 23:25.520] that said there should be no minimum weight at all,
[23:25.520 -> 23:28.520] which I think might be a bit extreme because, again, safety measures,
[23:28.520 -> 23:30.800] and if you give the teams no restriction on the weight,
[23:30.800 -> 23:34.160] they will start cutting corners on safety.
[23:34.160 -> 23:36.960] So we need something in there,
[23:36.960 -> 23:42.120] but there's definitely margin for improvement there.
[23:42.120 -> 23:43.600] Genesy, where do you want to go?
[23:43.600 -> 23:45.200] They won't start cutting corners,
[23:45.200 -> 23:50.960] they'll start cutting food out of the drivers diets because that was part of the reason the
[23:50.960 -> 23:56.320] minimum weight for drivers at least was brought in because you had drivers like Felipe Massa who
[23:56.320 -> 24:02.800] is a small guy who had a huge advantage over a Nico Hülkenberg who's six foot two and and built
[24:02.800 -> 24:05.760] like a Greek god but Good. But he's...
[24:05.760 -> 24:06.760] No.
[24:06.760 -> 24:07.760] Alex, I'm going to have to interrupt.
[24:07.760 -> 24:08.760] I'm so sorry.
[24:08.760 -> 24:09.760] But no, no.
[24:09.760 -> 24:10.760] Hang on.
[24:10.760 -> 24:13.400] No, tall people have no place in motorsport.
[24:13.400 -> 24:14.760] They've got basketball.
[24:14.760 -> 24:17.640] They've got jumping over high things.
[24:17.640 -> 24:19.120] They've got their sprints.
[24:19.120 -> 24:24.720] I do not want to have F1 pander to the tall people cabal.
[24:24.720 -> 24:25.960] Have to have diversity spanners.
[24:25.960 -> 24:30.360] No, they can just go and be CEOs of things, can't they?
[24:30.360 -> 24:32.400] Like statistically, if you're over six foot tall,
[24:32.400 -> 24:33.920] you're going to be a CEO of things.
[24:33.920 -> 24:35.520] And there's an increasing trend.
[24:35.520 -> 24:37.280] Thank goodness I'm not dating now.
[24:37.280 -> 24:39.000] But if you look on like TikTok or whatever,
[24:39.000 -> 24:41.560] they go, would you date a man under six foot?
[24:41.560 -> 24:43.520] And they're like, no, I'd rather set fire
[24:43.520 -> 24:50.840] to my face with Skittles. As a man who's five foot nine I still wouldn't reach the
[24:50.840 -> 24:55.480] minimum weight limit anyway so I'm all good for having those
[24:55.480 -> 24:59.640] weight limits increased but you know you mentioned on TikTok that you now get
[24:59.640 -> 25:03.400] people going talking to a guy going how tall are you and he goes I'm six foot one
[25:03.400 -> 25:05.560] and he measures him as five foot eight. You're now getting men having to be completely delusional, how tall are you? And he goes, I'm six foot one. He measures him, he's five foot eight.
[25:05.560 -> 25:07.840] You know, so you're not getting men
[25:07.840 -> 25:09.720] having to be completely delusional about how tall they are.
[25:09.720 -> 25:13.840] How dare those normal sized freaks lie about their height.
[25:13.840 -> 25:16.120] But Catman, on a serious note,
[25:16.120 -> 25:21.120] like we should, I think if you want to have a diversity
[25:21.560 -> 25:23.760] of like just numbers in motorsport,
[25:23.760 -> 25:27.120] every bigun that's got into a car as a kid
[25:27.120 -> 25:31.360] suddenly goes, oh, I'm terrible at this because I'm losing out to, you know, my five foot six
[25:32.000 -> 25:36.800] compatriots. Yeah, and the drivers in the 90s all had success ballast after a while,
[25:36.800 -> 25:45.600] didn't they? Just talk to Nigel Mansell. But you could say, let's make the minimum weight of the safety cell, which includes
[25:45.600 -> 25:51.800] the driver and the safety cell that protects him, give that say 300 kilos
[25:51.840 -> 25:55.680] and then everything else, you can do what you like with in terms of weight.
[25:55.680 -> 25:57.740] So maybe that's a way to do it.
[25:57.740 -> 26:01.320] And they measure that before they bolt on the car, stuff on the car on the Friday.
[26:01.320 -> 26:01.700] I don't know.
[26:01.700 -> 26:09.360] It would be an interesting way to look at it because then you would protect the driver's waistlines and you'd also be able to then get
[26:09.360 -> 26:13.520] a lighter car. No, no, no. Okay. So no one's saying that you should have to have an eating
[26:13.520 -> 26:20.400] disorder to get into motorsport. But also on the other hand, most drivers who are going to make it
[26:20.400 -> 26:25.040] at the top level are athletes. So if you look at the current crop of F1 drivers,
[26:25.040 -> 26:31.340] be they tall or short, they all have very athletic physiques. So you should have a kind
[26:31.340 -> 26:36.280] of bar, Alex, where you go, anyone who is a professional sportsman, who isn't going
[26:36.280 -> 26:42.560] out of their way to pile on muscle mass, should be able to go and compete in motorsport without
[26:42.560 -> 26:47.880] fouling. Now that's harder at a karting level, although you and I have both been in tournaments where there's a
[26:47.880 -> 26:54.080] minimum weight. It's very very doable. But yeah, open up, open up the the weight
[26:54.080 -> 26:58.800] regulations to make sure that you know people aren't excluded just because they
[26:58.800 -> 27:04.320] have the massive advantage of being Disney, Prince, Viking, Warlord type shapes.
[27:04.320 -> 27:05.000] But the thing is they also have to be a certain strength because as you said the of being Disney Prince, Viking, Warlord type shapes.
[27:05.000 -> 27:07.000] But the thing is, they also have to be a certain strength,
[27:07.000 -> 27:10.000] because as you said, the best graphic over the weekend
[27:10.000 -> 27:13.000] at Suzuka was the G graphic, because they were putting
[27:13.000 -> 27:16.000] 5 and 6 G in some corners.
[27:16.000 -> 27:21.000] And that is a massive, massive amount,
[27:21.000 -> 27:24.000] especially on things like your neck and all your inner organs,
[27:24.000 -> 27:26.600] because the thing you have to remember is people just talk about the neck
[27:26.600 -> 27:30.680] because obviously most f1 drivers have big fat wide necks because of all the
[27:30.680 -> 27:35.120] g-forces they go through but also every single organ in their body goes through
[27:35.120 -> 27:38.840] that G as well gets thrown to the left thrown to the right thrown forward
[27:38.840 -> 27:42.200] thrown backwards and if you aren't fit enough and strong enough to deal with
[27:42.200 -> 27:45.080] that you will just crumble and fall apart.
[27:45.080 -> 27:52.060] And to have that level of muscularity and endurance, you have to be a certain size.
[27:52.060 -> 27:55.980] And if you make them smaller, make them have to be smaller, they won't be able to withstand
[27:55.980 -> 27:56.980] it for longer.
[27:56.980 -> 28:00.560] Yeah, but Tom Cruise is a fighter pilot and he's tiny, so that's okay.
[28:00.560 -> 28:02.600] Yeah, but being small, again, being...
[28:02.600 -> 28:06.720] Okay, so us little guys don't have a lot of advantages but
[28:06.720 -> 28:12.720] motorsport and being a fighter pilot is genuinely is genuinely one of them chris
[28:13.600 -> 28:19.920] i will maintain that formula one wasn't a proper athletic professional sport until michael
[28:19.920 -> 28:23.760] schumacher arrived in the early 90s yeah yeah you're right you're right absolutely yeah you're
[28:23.760 -> 28:30.120] right change the sport nobody had up until that, and he changed the game for what it needed to be.
[28:30.240 -> 28:31.600] I'll just challenge that.
[28:31.600 -> 28:35.520] There may have been fit F1 drivers in the past, but Schumacher forward,
[28:35.600 -> 28:38.080] you absolutely had to be a Schumacher.
[28:38.200 -> 28:44.240] So when he came back later on in his 40s to drive a Mercedes, he wasn't in a pack of
[28:44.440 -> 28:46.560] people hanging out of the cockpit
[28:46.560 -> 28:53.600] with a cigarette, having just rolled out of the club to then go and race. He suddenly, he spawned
[28:53.600 -> 28:59.120] this new generation of people who had to be Schumacher fit, and then he had to race against
[28:59.120 -> 29:07.680] them as a 40 year old. Yeah, I mean, long since the days of KK Rosberg flicking his cigarette out and then
[29:07.680 -> 29:13.600] setting a new lap record at Silverstone. It's part of the reason I still will stand by the
[29:13.600 -> 29:21.440] testament which is nobody from earlier than the 80s is anywhere near as good as anybody today.
[29:21.440 -> 29:25.000] And that's your Jim Clarks, your Fangio, all those guys. No, don't.
[29:25.000 -> 29:28.160] They were men in their 50s having a hobby.
[29:28.160 -> 29:33.280] Alex, we're going to get emails now. There's a hardcore of 20-somethings who insist that
[29:33.280 -> 29:38.680] Jim Clark would definitely win F1 today in a Sauber. Catman, and then we'll move on.
[29:38.680 -> 29:46.600] Well, I was going to bring it back to the weight topic and say that regardless of the driver quality, back in 2009, the weight
[29:46.600 -> 29:50.140] limit for the cars was 605 kilos.
[29:50.140 -> 29:51.140] Now it's 796.
[29:51.140 -> 29:55.540] So that's a huge swell in terms of weight.
[29:55.540 -> 30:00.560] And as you said, the power unit is about 100 kilos heavier than it was with a conventional
[30:00.560 -> 30:05.280] combustion engine, about 50 kilos for the halo and chassis and other stuff.
[30:07.520 -> 30:11.920] And I think the weight increase is the reason why it looks less dramatic now. You know,
[30:11.920 -> 30:17.920] you used to see those cars like Schumacher's 2006 car dancing around, you know, him fighting Alonso
[30:17.920 -> 30:22.720] at Imola was exciting because the cars were bouncing everywhere and flicking everywhere.
[30:22.720 -> 30:27.200] Whereas now the increased weight means you've got less movement in the car, it's less dramatic.
[30:27.200 -> 30:31.320] Doesn't mean it's less easy or slower to drive or whatever,
[30:31.320 -> 30:34.200] but it just looks less exciting for the viewer.
[30:34.200 -> 30:36.400] 100%.
[30:36.400 -> 30:39.080] Even the cars 10 years ago,
[30:39.080 -> 30:42.560] just before the hybrid power units came in,
[30:42.560 -> 30:46.960] they look faster on TV and in, well, in pretty much everything
[30:47.520 -> 30:52.720] because they are lighter and it looks more dramatic. And do you know what? That's 796 kilos,
[30:52.720 -> 30:59.680] that's without fuel. So at the start of the race, they're nearly 900 kilos and that, you know,
[30:59.680 -> 31:05.200] they may well be faster than the cars 10 years ago and they may well be producing better lap times but
[31:05.760 -> 31:11.520] I maintain I don't care about the lap times so long as Formula 1 remains the benchmark in terms
[31:11.520 -> 31:17.280] of you know being the fastest cars in the world but the difference like in 2017 like oh we're
[31:17.280 -> 31:26.320] going 3.2 seconds oh that was so stupid I do not care I do not care make I do not care. Make it look good on TV. Make it raceable.
[31:26.320 -> 31:30.480] You mentioned it there. Make it look good on TV. Less stabilization of the onboard cameras.
[31:30.480 -> 31:35.360] Yes. Back in the 90s, they were jiggling about all over the place and it was amazing. But
[31:35.360 -> 31:36.600] now...
[31:36.600 -> 31:43.040] I swear to God, I swear to God, they've tried to artificially induce or make the onboard
[31:43.040 -> 31:46.240] cameras slightly less bad. There was a period, I think it was a couple of years ago,
[31:46.240 -> 31:49.600] where every time they were on board with the Red Bull,
[31:49.600 -> 31:51.960] it would shake around like crazy at the high speed.
[31:51.960 -> 31:53.200] And I don't know if they just installed-
[31:53.200 -> 31:54.840] That's because of all their flexible aero.
[31:54.840 -> 31:59.160] I don't know if they just installed that camera badly
[31:59.160 -> 32:01.520] or something, but it looked so much better.
[32:01.520 -> 32:03.440] And then they like fixed it a year later.
[32:03.440 -> 32:07.440] And no, bring some shaking, bring some drama, some punch spur to it!
[32:07.440 -> 32:13.960] Go back to the Rosberg, Hamilton, Mercedes era, look at the onboards there and it looked
[32:13.960 -> 32:18.200] like they were doing nothing. It looked like a Sunday drive. So I do wonder if part of
[32:18.200 -> 32:27.040] that was down... and look, Catman, some of this is, let's fix F1, is let's fix F1 to watch. There's two different kind of
[32:27.040 -> 32:33.040] arguments in that. What is it from a sporting point of view or are we just selfish and say
[32:33.040 -> 32:37.920] we want a thing better on telly? Yeah, and I think you've got to work out if it's a sport
[32:37.920 -> 32:42.000] or an entertainment. I think that's a very important thing. WWE is very entertaining
[32:42.000 -> 32:45.520] to watch as I'm sure Alex will tell us sure Alex loves it. Alex loves his WWE.
[32:45.520 -> 32:51.120] But I can't stand it because it's so artificial. So, you know, I think it's a very difficult thing.
[32:51.120 -> 32:56.880] But good news though, Spanners, is that in 2026 the cars are going to be a whopping 50 kilos lighter.
[32:56.880 -> 32:57.360] That won't.
[32:57.360 -> 32:58.240] So we've solved it.
[32:58.240 -> 32:59.040] Cut the biscuit.
[33:02.720 -> 33:07.600] Okay, so I think we've fixed that. I wasn't paying that much attention, but I think we
[33:07.600 -> 33:15.360] solved making cars lighter, so that's good. That's a one. That's a missed Apex 1 F1 nil.
[33:15.360 -> 33:24.320] We showed them. Okay, so let's see. It's Sean. His username is SeanNowEngaged and King. Sean,
[33:24.320 -> 33:26.000] just a warning for you. I know you've got
[33:26.000 -> 33:30.480] excited. I know you've met a lovely person who you think is going to enrich your life,
[33:30.480 -> 33:36.520] but for the love of God, don't then get married and have kids. It takes a lot, a lot of time.
[33:36.520 -> 33:39.680] It takes an awful lot of time and you should avoid it.
[33:39.680 -> 33:41.880] He warned me about that and I didn't pay any attention.
[33:41.880 -> 33:50.160] I literally warned Catman from the beginning and he didn't listen to me and now look at him. Does he look happy? Does he? I also warned Alex,
[33:50.160 -> 33:57.840] no one listened to me and now you all know so that's fine. Okay so Sean says, this is so easy
[33:57.840 -> 34:09.400] Spanners, bring back refuelling and F1 is instantly three times better than it is right now, and I don't want to hear any whining, says Sean, about quote-unquote safety.
[34:09.400 -> 34:16.000] These guys sign up to drive 208 miles an hour down the Baku Strait with a chance of a blow-up.
[34:16.000 -> 34:23.200] Death is on offer every weekend. So what I would say to you, Alex, is fear of refueling is woke.
[34:23.200 -> 34:26.640] If they want to explode, I say let them explode.
[34:27.840 -> 34:34.160] Let's ignore safety. I think they could sort it now that they could fix the safety issues.
[34:34.160 -> 34:39.520] I'm not worried about the safety issues. I'm worried about the racing because the biggest
[34:39.520 -> 34:45.680] problem with refueling... go and watch any Schumacher dominated series. If he was ever stuck in
[34:45.680 -> 34:51.360] traffic he'd pit, refuel, drive around on his own for ages and all of a sudden appear in the lead.
[34:52.000 -> 34:55.360] What happens if you stick refueling in... Wait, wait, explain, explain, explain Alex,
[34:55.360 -> 34:57.760] just just break that down for people who didn't watch that. Explain
[34:59.200 -> 35:04.240] how Schumacher could use refueling in his dominant period to just get out of any problem.
[35:04.880 -> 35:09.160] So what you'd either do is he if he had a bad qualifying was starting further back
[35:09.160 -> 35:13.040] in the grid there is a specific race that I'd watched a while ago and I can't
[35:13.040 -> 35:18.000] remember which one it was I think he started around 13th place and he
[35:18.000 -> 35:23.480] under fueled the car and he went out and he went really fast
[35:23.480 -> 35:25.260] made up a whole bunch of places,
[35:25.260 -> 35:29.820] pitted really early before anybody else, so he had loads and loads of space on circuit,
[35:29.820 -> 35:34.120] filled the car up with fuel and just went and did the old Schumacher qualifying laps
[35:34.120 -> 35:38.840] every single lap. And then by the time everyone had filtered in and done their pit stops,
[35:38.840 -> 35:42.020] he'd gone from outside the points to third place.
[35:42.020 -> 35:45.360] That used to annoy me so much and that was sort of Murray Walker commentary I think at
[35:45.360 -> 35:49.880] the time still and he'd go, oh Schumacher needs to pull off 15 qualifying laps, oh this
[35:49.880 -> 35:53.920] is the most amazing thing in the world and it's like, well okay, your job is to make
[35:53.920 -> 35:59.680] this exciting, I get that. However, what he was really just doing was his normal kind
[35:59.680 -> 36:04.920] of race pace but the refuelling gave him a mechanism by which he didn't have to overtake
[36:04.920 -> 36:05.440] anyone which was very difficult in that era. Catman? pace but the refueling gave him a mechanism by which he didn't have to overtake anyone
[36:05.440 -> 36:11.680] which was very difficult in that era. Catman? Yeah okay so I'll go directly against the point
[36:11.680 -> 36:16.800] I made at the top of the show which is you have to have some overtakes to make a race interesting.
[36:16.800 -> 36:22.160] You said, you told me, you told all of us that you didn't need to overtake ever and it was fine.
[36:22.160 -> 36:25.840] Overtaking a stationary car at the pits is absolutely boring and pointless.
[36:25.840 -> 36:30.880] You said your F1 could just be beads on a string and you just tip one end of the string
[36:30.880 -> 36:33.280] up and that would be fine. That's what you said.
[36:33.280 -> 36:35.040] I've been cancelled, haven't I?
[36:35.040 -> 36:37.000] Yeah, that's it. Cancel, Catman.
[36:37.000 -> 36:40.960] Yeah, no, absolutely. Refueling was terrible and is a terrible idea.
[36:40.960 -> 36:41.960] No.
[36:41.960 -> 36:44.640] It's good for an endurance race because you kind of need some fuel.
[36:44.640 -> 36:45.200] Yeah. But for a endurance race because you kind of need some fuel, but
[36:45.200 -> 36:47.000] for a sprint race, no.
[36:47.000 -> 36:52.480] Okay, to be fair, Catman, your name is Christopher. We just say Catman because we've already got
[36:52.480 -> 36:59.680] a Chris, and also he helps us look after our cats. But look, refuelling is as artificial
[36:59.680 -> 37:07.680] as DRS. It is as artificial as needing to change your tyres or having different compounds of tyres. So
[37:07.680 -> 37:14.160] people kind of hark back to like a glory period of refuelling, but refuelling for an hour and a
[37:14.160 -> 37:21.680] half race is like one of the ultimate artificial for the sake of it racing aids. Yeah, and I think
[37:21.680 -> 37:25.480] you need only a couple of artificial aids so that everybody can understand
[37:25.480 -> 37:29.800] and see where it came from. The problem with refueling is, unless they told you, you had
[37:29.800 -> 37:35.560] absolutely no idea what sort of fuel level the car was carrying. So you could be taken
[37:35.560 -> 37:39.960] completely by surprise and just, oh, he's pitted. Why has he done that? Oh, he obviously
[37:39.960 -> 37:43.320] had no fuel. Well, that's the end of the race then. Nevermind.
[37:43.320 -> 37:47.880] Maybe though, Chris. Real Chris. Sorry, no then, never mind. Maybe though Chris, real Chris. Sorry, no that's bad, not real Chris.
[37:47.880 -> 37:48.880] Chris 1.
[37:48.880 -> 37:49.880] Chris 1.
[37:49.880 -> 37:51.760] I'm Chris 4 now, I mean, come on people.
[37:51.760 -> 37:55.920] I know, so Catman was Chris 2 and then obviously Christian Pedersen.
[37:55.920 -> 37:58.560] He's got, isn't it with a K, Christian?
[37:58.560 -> 38:02.600] Still counts, so that's Chris 2. And now we've had Christina, the lady from Canada, from
[38:02.600 -> 38:10.160] the TikTok lady who's very, very good. And I just felt like, you know, her TikTok audience, just on numbers,
[38:10.720 -> 38:12.640] made her the best, like Chris 3.
[38:12.640 -> 38:16.480] It's all because of her cat just talking over the post tree.
[38:16.480 -> 38:16.960] Yeah, exactly.
[38:16.960 -> 38:19.520] Oh, she has a cat as well. Where's my cat? Where is it?
[38:19.520 -> 38:24.400] No, you can't grab cats to be promoted amongst the Chrises. But Chris 1,
[38:24.400 -> 38:26.240] You can't grab cats to be promoted amongst the Chris's. But Chris 1,
[38:31.760 -> 38:39.840] thing is refuelling was really ruined by not knowing what fuel loads people had. But Formula E has maybe shown us that with information the viewer can... Chris 4 was right that you couldn't
[38:39.840 -> 38:49.640] follow the action, especially with qualifying. You'd line up on the grid and you wouldn't know the fuel load, so you go, he's on pole, ah, but he's had to pit on lap three, so it's
[38:49.640 -> 38:56.400] worthless. Formula E has shown us that this kind of energy monitoring can involve the
[38:56.400 -> 38:57.400] viewer.
[38:57.400 -> 39:04.240] Yeah, I mean, it's different, say, to tyres, for example, because there is still a kind
[39:04.240 -> 39:06.800] of visual element to the tyres and
[39:06.800 -> 39:11.280] that we know what compound they're on. Therefore, we can see if they're going a bit more aggressive
[39:11.280 -> 39:13.920] and say, oh, look, they're going for a softer tyre, therefore, there's going to be a bit
[39:13.920 -> 39:18.040] of a shorter stint, or they're going for hards, or they might run it through to the end of
[39:18.040 -> 39:22.400] the race. There's a bit more information being fed through there.
[39:22.400 -> 39:27.240] What they used to do, and I'm not trying to young you, but in the olden days, the commentators
[39:27.240 -> 39:32.600] would visually try to Mississippi it. So they'd put the fuel hose on, they'd go like, one
[39:32.600 -> 39:37.600] Mississippi, two Mississippi, that was five Mississippis, I think they're fuelled for
[39:37.600 -> 39:42.120] half the race. And it was so like, wet finger in the air.
[39:42.120 -> 39:47.200] But it's interesting you mentioned Formula E because next season I
[39:47.200 -> 39:54.840] believe they are introducing recharging in the race. So let's see if maybe Formula One
[39:54.840 -> 39:59.600] can learn a little something from them about how they present said information. So maybe
[39:59.600 -> 40:09.320] they can sprinkle fuel from the grandstands as they go along. So are we going to get a section of the race where they're all just sat at the services for half an hour while their batteries are full?
[40:09.320 -> 40:10.680] Having a burger.
[40:10.680 -> 40:14.760] Genesy, genesy, genesy, it's fast charging, it's super charging.
[40:14.760 -> 40:16.760] Yeah, half an hour, that's how long the Teslas do it.
[40:16.760 -> 40:18.760] It's not half an hour, it's gonna be like seconds.
[40:18.760 -> 40:26.980] Okay, can we can we actually make any case for, for, okay put it this way. What is the argument for refueling?
[40:26.980 -> 40:29.800] It's an extra stop, it's a tactical element.
[40:29.800 -> 40:31.440] It's the weight, I think.
[40:31.440 -> 40:33.040] Because we've just sat here and complained
[40:33.040 -> 40:34.440] about the weight of the cars,
[40:34.440 -> 40:38.120] and that's an easy way to lose 50 kilos
[40:38.120 -> 40:40.120] from the weight of the car.
[40:40.120 -> 40:44.120] The only issue is there are an awful lot of negatives
[40:44.120 -> 40:45.680] that don't really justify the means.
[40:46.480 -> 40:50.640] Imagine how far ahead Max Verstappen would be this season with refueling.
[40:50.640 -> 40:54.640] We wouldn't have seen any of those mega drives that he's had through the pack.
[40:54.640 -> 40:59.760] He'd have just pitted and then had clean air and then been in the lead by 20 seconds and
[40:59.760 -> 41:03.040] no one would understand why. That was the biggest problem with refueling is,
[41:03.920 -> 41:05.040] especially because back in the
[41:05.040 -> 41:08.560] day we didn't have the live timing so we couldn't, you know, you didn't have live timing in front of
[41:08.560 -> 41:14.160] you so you couldn't see the lap times the drivers are putting in but now you just see it. Oh look
[41:14.160 -> 41:18.160] at Max's lap time, he's a second and a half quicker than everybody else on the grid, he's easily going
[41:18.160 -> 41:24.720] to come out ahead. It would just be more boring. Yeah but you get that amazing AWS graphic that
[41:24.720 -> 41:25.280] would say,
[41:25.280 -> 41:28.000] oh, you know, Max would come out if he pitted at this lap,
[41:28.000 -> 41:29.280] he'd come out much further ahead.
[41:29.280 -> 41:30.400] Now, it would be terrible.
[41:30.400 -> 41:31.760] So in those days...
[41:31.760 -> 41:33.680] I can't deal with it, no.
[41:33.680 -> 41:35.840] But in those days, in the before time,
[41:35.840 -> 41:38.480] like what tyres were they running during refuelling?
[41:38.480 -> 41:42.240] They didn't have the Pirelli kind of chocolate tyres where...
[41:42.880 -> 41:49.120] So refuelling really has been replaced by the Pirelli tire model
[41:49.120 -> 41:53.920] that's that's exactly two seconds stop is more exciting than a fuel yeah it serves the same
[41:53.920 -> 42:00.640] purpose so i'll tell you about it because we only had one year of uh no refueling and no high deck
[42:00.640 -> 42:09.680] tires that was in 2010 oddly enough one of the best championship fights we've ever seen. So I don't know if there's cause and effect there, but I think the main
[42:09.680 -> 42:16.080] era when we talk about refueling, people think about the period of the 2000s where we had the
[42:16.080 -> 42:23.040] Michelin and Bridgestone tire war and then just sold Bridgestone supply, basically.
[42:24.240 -> 42:26.680] And there was even one year in all that as well
[42:26.680 -> 42:30.080] where there were no tires, you had to run one set of tires
[42:30.080 -> 42:33.080] for the entire race, which was when,
[42:34.640 -> 42:37.760] Kimmy didn't he famously blew up the-
[42:37.760 -> 42:39.320] Nobergring last lap, wasn't it?
[42:39.320 -> 42:40.160] Yeah.
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[44:05.800 -> 44:07.800] Oh.
[44:15.300 -> 44:20.300] Well, it looks like we are two thirds through fixing F1.
[44:20.300 -> 44:21.300] Good job, everyone.
[44:21.300 -> 44:23.300] If you are enjoying Missed Apex podcast,
[44:23.300 -> 44:27.000] I'd like to ask a couple of things of you, if that's okay.
[44:27.000 -> 44:33.000] Missed Apex will always be a free podcast at the point of use, but if you could see your way clear to help us out,
[44:33.000 -> 44:38.000] an iTunes or Spotify review would really, really help us out.
[44:38.000 -> 44:43.000] You know, just five stars. You can insult people's physical appearance.
[44:43.000 -> 44:45.840] I will just flash up Alex on the screen in case
[44:45.840 -> 44:52.640] you need any inspiration. But I don't mind what that five star review says as long as it's five
[44:52.640 -> 44:58.720] stars and Missed Apex is fine. That really helps us in the iTunes and Spotify charts and helps our
[44:58.720 -> 45:11.760] visibility massively. The other thing you could do is support us on Patreon because Patreon gives us practical resources to a, not have to do other things instead of doing Missed Apex
[45:11.760 -> 45:18.240] Podcast but increasingly it gives us choices like, can we advertise? Can we do a 30 second
[45:18.240 -> 45:23.280] trailer at the beginning of the season to give everybody a chance to tune in and grow
[45:23.280 -> 45:28.400] Missed Apex? And the more we grow, the more we have an excuse to keep on doing this kind of thing.
[45:28.400 -> 45:32.000] This started off in 2016 as a shot in the dark,
[45:32.000 -> 45:35.800] and because of your encouragement, we have been able to continue.
[45:35.800 -> 45:37.800] So please, tell the world.
[45:37.800 -> 45:41.600] If you can't tell iTunes or Spotify, tell Derek in the office.
[45:41.600 -> 45:46.880] Myst Apex is where I go to get my little hit of F1 chat.
[45:52.080 -> 46:00.880] Adam20 says, no more track limits. So we asked people to fix F1 and they responded
[46:01.520 -> 46:06.040] in partially this way. So yeah, Adam says, no more track limits.
[46:06.040 -> 46:12.920] Then limited DRS, uncapped hybrid power per lap, open suspension development, including
[46:12.920 -> 46:16.560] active suspension, active aero devices allowed.
[46:16.560 -> 46:20.760] Okay, big, big, big, big question there from Adam.
[46:20.760 -> 46:26.280] A lot of suggestions, but let's zone in on track limits because Rob De Vries
[46:26.280 -> 46:35.920] also says, one fix to fix most things wrong with F1, natural, i.e. non-tarmac track boundaries,
[46:35.920 -> 46:41.200] lower entrance, oh, then he says lower entrance for teams would be nice as well. So we are
[46:41.200 -> 46:46.560] on track limits, guys, and this is an argument we have had for many many years here
[46:46.560 -> 46:53.280] on Missed Apex and I've flip-flopped all around but the one thing that I've always stuck with is
[46:54.160 -> 47:00.480] no natural barriers. Like I don't like just a wall around the track because I don't like street
[47:00.480 -> 47:05.200] tracks. I hate gravel because your favourite driver makes a mistake and then he's
[47:05.200 -> 47:12.000] just not in the race anymore. Grass is fairly dangerous because you've got a track surface
[47:12.000 -> 47:19.360] where a car will go and then they can't control themselves. But tarmac has a problem where
[47:20.000 -> 47:26.000] it doesn't matter if you go off because you can just continue. So, Chris, no track limits.
[47:26.880 -> 47:34.320] Right, so let's just at Wimbledon let them hit the ball wherever they want. Oh, that's fine,
[47:34.320 -> 47:40.160] that's still in. In football, if they just yeet it into the corner, oh no, that's a goal actually.
[47:40.160 -> 47:46.520] You have to have a defined area of play. Otherwise, what is the point?
[47:46.520 -> 47:48.040] Like that turn one at Austria,
[47:48.040 -> 47:50.520] they will just fling themselves right towards
[47:50.520 -> 47:53.560] where that tire wall is and run all the way out
[47:53.560 -> 47:55.680] to the edge of wherever they possibly can.
[47:55.680 -> 47:58.480] You need to have a defined area of play.
[47:58.480 -> 48:00.320] Otherwise it is not a sport anymore.
[48:00.320 -> 48:02.720] It is just nonsense, right?
[48:02.720 -> 48:07.680] I do agree we need to work harder in a, in, in
[48:07.680 -> 48:14.400] creating a natural track limits deterrent because we saw it at Austria. The drivers
[48:14.400 -> 48:20.480] are pretty poor at judging it themselves with the white line when it's all just tarmac.
[48:20.480 -> 48:25.040] Right. But there are safety elements you have to put in as well, especially when
[48:25.040 -> 48:29.920] you consider a lot of tracks need to be viable for bike racing as well.
[48:29.920 -> 48:35.280] No, no, boo! Right, no, let's nip this in the butt, which I believe is the correct way.
[48:35.280 -> 48:39.480] I know some people say nip it in the bud, but it's not. You have to nip the person's
[48:39.480 -> 48:42.880] butt who is making these decisions. I don't think that's right, Spanner.
[48:42.880 -> 48:45.120] No, I think you have to nip their butt and they go,
[48:45.120 -> 48:46.480] oh, OK, OK.
[48:46.480 -> 48:49.080] I think you're thinking of butt naked, which is actually
[48:49.080 -> 48:49.600] butt naked.
[48:49.600 -> 48:52.200] So let's nip the decision maker in the butt.
[48:52.200 -> 48:54.680] I don't care what MotoGP needs, OK?
[48:54.680 -> 48:57.040] So in the context of this conversation,
[48:57.040 -> 48:58.120] I know a track does.
[48:58.120 -> 49:02.920] A track might go, oh, I need money to feed my children,
[49:02.920 -> 49:03.400] whatever.
[49:03.400 -> 49:04.080] I don't care.
[49:04.080 -> 49:08.120] I'm talking about Formula One here. So I want to exist in a universe where you don't have
[49:08.120 -> 49:14.680] to fundamentally change F1 to accommodate witchcraft bikes, which are basically pretend
[49:14.680 -> 49:19.600] because you don't have to fundamentally change Formula One. You do. You just change, no,
[49:19.600 -> 49:27.120] you just adapt the area in which they race it. Or you say to MotoGP, lads we get it you're brave but you
[49:27.120 -> 49:33.760] just have to deal with whatever F1 throws at you or just do something a lot safer because riding
[49:33.760 -> 49:44.320] motorbikes for a living is nuts. Van Gene. The track limits is the skill part of the job. The
[49:44.320 -> 49:47.600] whole point of being a good racing driver is you can keep the car
[49:47.600 -> 49:53.680] on a circuit faster than anybody else. Otherwise you're left with Indy when they just losed all
[49:53.680 -> 49:59.360] the runoff at the penultimate corner at Kota, which was an absolute travesty. That doesn't
[49:59.360 -> 50:05.760] take any skill. Those cars have enough grip that you can go around the corner flat out and just go as far
[50:05.760 -> 50:12.320] off the circuit as possible. As far as having natural track limits, things that make when you
[50:12.320 -> 50:20.080] go wide be an actual consequence, for me it's like you have a strip, be it, I don't know,
[50:20.080 -> 50:27.360] half a car width wide of grass or of something that is of lower adhesion than the actual track.
[50:27.360 -> 50:34.240] So it makes you have to go off and then you've got the safety of the tarmac to go off to,
[50:34.240 -> 50:39.200] to just recover and get back onto the track. But you will have lost time. Because the problem is
[50:39.200 -> 50:44.560] with big gravel traps, you can run a little bit wide, slow down a bit too much and get stuck,
[50:44.560 -> 50:48.340] and you're out of the race. I don't want cars going out the race like we had when we
[50:48.340 -> 50:52.120] did Mugello we had cars go out the race when because they got stuck in the
[50:52.120 -> 50:57.740] deepest gravel trap in the world because they couldn't just drive straight through
[50:57.740 -> 51:02.140] it with grass if it's got any form of moisture on it it's an ice rink and it's
[51:02.140 -> 51:09.800] a one-way trip to the barrier or if you have a strip of tarmac that's been used as a drag strip and it's got water on it
[51:09.800 -> 51:17.400] and all you do is go straight off into the barrier. It's got to be enough that it's a deterrent
[51:17.400 -> 51:22.680] and but then still safe enough that we still don't lose cars from the mess.
[51:22.680 -> 51:29.160] Yeah we're going to Catman next here. But look, what is the ultimate test of any motorsport,
[51:29.160 -> 51:32.520] like be it virtual, be it professional, amateur?
[51:32.640 -> 51:36.800] Obviously, the greatest test of motorsport
[51:36.800 -> 51:40.000] accomplishment is Rainbow Road on Mario Kart.
[51:40.360 -> 51:43.640] Catman, there are no track limits on Mario Kart.
[51:43.640 -> 51:48.400] Yes, you can hit the odd brick once, but once that brick's gone, it's gone and then you're
[51:48.400 -> 51:51.720] off and you're looking for the cloud fishing hook.
[51:51.720 -> 51:54.880] I was going to say, weren't the track limits you fell off into space and then you had to
[51:54.880 -> 51:55.880] get fished out?
[51:55.880 -> 51:56.880] No, a little guy, yeah, gets you.
[51:56.880 -> 51:59.240] A guy in a cloud fishes you out.
[51:59.240 -> 52:00.240] Yeah.
[52:00.240 -> 52:02.480] Yeah, look, track limits are important.
[52:02.480 -> 52:05.520] I will defend the indie thing, as that was a one weekend.
[52:06.400 -> 52:07.920] It looked horrible though.
[52:07.920 -> 52:09.280] It was terrible.
[52:09.280 -> 52:13.200] Don't care. It looked awful. I don't care what it was. Whatever it was, it looked bad.
[52:13.200 -> 52:18.160] It was so bad. But also I will defend the current crop of drivers. You know,
[52:18.160 -> 52:21.680] we're saying that they're the best in the world and they should be able to put it within these
[52:21.680 -> 52:25.360] white lines. I think it was far easier when you had a
[52:25.360 -> 52:32.320] tiny nimble little 2006 Ferrari Formula One car where you could see where the edge of the car was.
[52:32.320 -> 52:38.480] Now the cars are fat and long with these big kind of bat ears over the wheels. They can't see a
[52:38.480 -> 52:51.840] thing so I'm not surprised they can't keep it within the white lines. So, sorry Chris, go on. Genesy, to your point as well, the skill should be rewarded and going off the track should be
[52:51.840 -> 52:58.320] punished in a way then. So I don't necessarily agree with the idea that it's bad that we lose
[52:58.320 -> 53:04.000] cars from the race because if you make a mistake, you go off the track, you should be punished for
[53:04.000 -> 53:07.280] it. Especially if you go off in a big enough way that it gets you out of the race.
[53:07.840 -> 53:12.800] And therefore, you're rewarding the drivers who can keep it on the track even more so.
[53:12.800 -> 53:17.680] And we see that skill come through a little bit more. I think the only issue with gravel,
[53:17.680 -> 53:26.260] from a safety point of view, is when cars dig in, you get the higher chance that they're going to roll, which is not what you want
[53:26.260 -> 53:27.260] to see.
[53:27.260 -> 53:34.320] When a car rolls, there is no risk of the driver's head hitting the ground, but that's
[53:34.320 -> 53:37.060] when they're on a smooth asphalt surface.
[53:37.060 -> 53:42.780] Once you start bringing in gravel into the equation, and a car can dig in, then there's
[53:42.780 -> 53:45.200] less of a guarantee of the driver's safety there.
[53:45.200 -> 53:49.840] Yeah, I'm not suggesting that we go racing at Western Supermare where you dig into the
[53:49.840 -> 53:54.640] ground and then never come back out again. But you know, something, something has to be determined.
[53:55.280 -> 54:01.440] Wasn't it Paul Ricard who tried to use the low adhesion strips around the edge of the circuit,
[54:01.440 -> 54:05.320] those bright blue strips, are they meant to be like low adhesive?
[54:05.320 -> 54:06.320] No, opposite.
[54:06.320 -> 54:09.920] Isn't what next they're trying to do is low adhesive and then further away is higher adhesive
[54:09.920 -> 54:12.680] so that it would slow it down. Is that not where they got it wrong?
[54:12.680 -> 54:20.600] No, they are aggressively more harsh tarmac which ruins the tires, which is actually very
[54:20.600 -> 54:21.600] interesting.
[54:21.600 -> 54:25.200] But the effect is not high enough, that's the thing. If you lock up
[54:25.200 -> 54:30.480] and go through all of those, then yes, you'll get a much bigger flat spot, but it wasn't really like,
[54:30.480 -> 54:36.000] you know, oh, if you run off briefly, it's going to wear your tyres more. You'd have to do it quite
[54:36.000 -> 54:38.960] habitually. You can go in a straight line off, fucking through it, and be absolutely fine.
[54:40.080 -> 54:47.280] The biggest problem with track limits is always Austria, is that last corner in Austria. And the problem with that isn't the drivers
[54:47.280 -> 54:49.600] not being able to keep it within the track limits
[54:49.600 -> 54:50.920] because of a skill issue.
[54:50.920 -> 54:54.160] It's they can't see the line.
[54:54.160 -> 54:57.800] They don't know where the line is, because as Catman said,
[54:57.800 -> 54:59.800] the cockpits are so high, and all the fairings,
[54:59.800 -> 55:01.100] and everything's all around it.
[55:01.100 -> 55:03.080] It's so difficult for them to actually see
[55:03.080 -> 55:03.840] where that line is.
[55:03.840 -> 55:05.760] So the way
[55:05.760 -> 55:14.240] to fix that is two things bigger lines so they've got a little bit more margin for error um or once
[55:14.240 -> 55:21.120] you're over the line you have a different track surface feeling so that you you know okay that's
[55:21.120 -> 55:25.600] the limit rumble strips that through Effectively yeah but obviously something that's
[55:26.560 -> 55:30.560] going to help it but that's the whole thing. The same thing was at Imola as well. Oh hang on sorry
[55:30.560 -> 55:34.960] oh hi to our live stream by the way because you can like comments and Logan Sargent just liked
[55:34.960 -> 55:48.400] that idea about having rumble strips for track. Logan Sargent has received the full backing of the Williams board so he's safe, fully, fully safe.
[55:49.120 -> 55:50.480] Worse than Latifi. Chris.
[55:51.040 -> 55:57.600] Oh that's extreme. Yeah, but I love Nicky so it's fine. He was rubbish too.
[55:59.280 -> 56:07.560] Don't you say anything about my Nicky! The one easy win in terms of track limits, stop making
[56:07.560 -> 56:14.100] kerbs that are wider than the cars as well, because then it's a lot easier to see. Not
[56:14.100 -> 56:18.920] just in terms of exit kerbs, but also entry kerbs and apex kerbs. Because again, a pullery
[56:18.920 -> 56:24.280] car, you can cut one of the corners in its entirety, and it becomes a massive problem
[56:24.280 -> 56:25.040] in terms of the track limits its entirety and it becomes a massive problem in terms of the
[56:25.040 -> 56:27.280] track limits. Stop making them cuttable.
[56:27.280 -> 56:33.920] So even at Suzuka, we were told a while back that they were going to say, right, the line
[56:33.920 -> 56:39.840] is the line. And that would be my personal preference. My personal preference is, yeah,
[56:39.840 -> 56:46.400] I know, ideally, yeah, maybe you could have a slightly different amount of grip once you go off the line.
[56:46.400 -> 56:52.960] But also, we have electronic solutions. So the line is the line. If you go over, if you overtake
[56:53.920 -> 57:00.480] and you go over the line, that should be a penalty. So Lewis Hamilton pushing out George
[57:00.480 -> 57:05.440] Russell, that was fine. But then to me, he didn't stay on the line. He went over
[57:05.440 -> 57:09.400] the line, so that should be a penalty and that should be flagged up. And then he should
[57:09.400 -> 57:16.480] get like a small power deficit, like an undangerous power deficit. These kinds of things are technologically
[57:16.480 -> 57:27.160] very, very simple. But at Suzuka, they deemed those curbs to be in limits. That wasn't communicated to us. Hopefully it was
[57:27.160 -> 57:34.200] communicated to the drivers, but why are some tracks the kerbs are in and some tracks it's
[57:34.200 -> 57:40.440] the line? So let's just be consistent. Let's paint the line like bright purple so there's
[57:40.440 -> 57:46.720] no doubt about where the line is. And the kerb is in then paint the purple line
[57:46.720 -> 57:53.520] around the kerb and then we just all know where you're allowed to be and there's no ambiguity.
[57:53.520 -> 58:00.640] Chris? There is a comment in our chat room. A comment you say? Which you may join if you sign up to
[58:00.640 -> 58:05.520] patreon.com forward slash misstapings and i would highly recommend that you do because jason g
[58:06.080 -> 58:13.440] has said perhaps there is something we could do with the paint of the white line that reduces grip
[58:13.440 -> 58:20.320] now i will say that's dangerous that that yes the problem with that is that and the fia there are fia
[58:20.320 -> 58:28.320] homologated paints for the use of on circuits that have to be a certain abrasiveness and
[58:28.320 -> 58:31.000] therefore, grip.
[58:31.000 -> 58:38.040] Primarily because in the wet, they otherwise become just slippery as hell and quite dangerous.
[58:38.040 -> 58:43.360] So when we're looking at street tracks, for example, there's an awful lot of white lines,
[58:43.360 -> 58:44.360] just road markings, right?
[58:44.360 -> 58:46.560] Yeah, you have to be alert on a street circuit.
[58:46.560 -> 58:47.560] RUFUS Exactly.
[58:47.560 -> 58:53.840] Well, funny you should say that, because the man who said that himself, Jolian Palm, was
[58:53.840 -> 59:00.240] uh, subject to aquaplaning off in Monaco that one year at Hoondit Down in 2016, because
[59:00.240 -> 59:04.920] he went over the zebra crossing and just aquaplaned off the circuit!
[59:04.920 -> 59:12.280] So there is actually- ALICE That and just aquaplaned off the circuit! So there is actually a lot of thought that goes into the paints that are used on circuits,
[59:12.280 -> 59:15.160] and they need to be a higher grip rather than a lower grip.
[59:15.160 -> 59:17.280] ALICE He's really taken this becoming Matt thing
[59:17.280 -> 59:20.120] to heart, hasn't he, talking about the homologation of paint.
[59:20.120 -> 59:21.360] JUSTIN No, I know, I know.
[59:21.360 -> 59:26.560] ALICE It's just something I picked up at work, actually.
[59:26.560 -> 59:32.320] I love that Matt takes these kind of regulations and rules that no one else bothers with at
[59:32.320 -> 59:38.720] all, and then just launches into like, yeah, no, the signage in F1 tracks has, it takes
[59:38.720 -> 59:44.160] two weeks to set up and then just launches into like a whole thing of a thing you'd never
[59:44.160 -> 59:46.960] thought about. So yes, me too. Absolutely.
[59:46.960 -> 59:52.960] Whilst I'm happy actually to slag off Matt for that, there is some effort and value to it.
[59:52.960 -> 59:58.320] Oh, absolutely. It's phenomenal, the effort and the detail that he knows about Formula 1.
[59:58.320 -> 01:00:01.840] But so anyway, come back to the point, I've got two ways they could do this.
[01:00:01.840 -> 01:00:05.920] Could they have a layer of paint on the outside of the
[01:00:05.920 -> 01:00:13.600] line that marks the tire so that the stewards could see when they've gone off? So it's like
[01:00:13.600 -> 01:00:19.440] if your tire is yellow, you have gone off the circuit. Alex is very much wagging his
[01:00:19.440 -> 01:00:25.460] finger. It's not necessary because there is technology that exists. Thank you. That can do this.
[01:00:25.460 -> 01:00:26.120] It's very easy.
[01:00:26.120 -> 01:00:28.160] The technology exists that once a car is over the,
[01:00:28.160 -> 01:00:31.440] because I'm fed up of the stewards guessing
[01:00:31.440 -> 01:00:34.120] from a couple of cameras from the side of the track
[01:00:34.120 -> 01:00:37.120] because it's blooming ridiculous because you cannot tell,
[01:00:37.120 -> 01:00:38.760] especially because there's shadows
[01:00:38.760 -> 01:00:40.280] or there's something on the track.
[01:00:40.280 -> 01:00:41.560] It's rubbish.
[01:00:41.560 -> 01:00:44.600] There is technology that exists that can do this sort of thing.
[01:00:44.600 -> 01:00:50.640] I don't agree with the power decrease thing because that will always come back as being as being done as dangerous.
[01:00:51.400 -> 01:00:55.400] So you can have the technology that tells it, but you can also have
[01:00:55.560 -> 01:01:00.440] that it's basically a buzzer would go off in the car or a light would flash in the car to say you've gone off the
[01:01:00.440 -> 01:01:05.040] track there. So even the drivers could know and then they can fine-tune during
[01:01:05.040 -> 01:01:10.880] practice why practice is needed to make this work.
[01:01:10.880 -> 01:01:12.080] Can I just head off one big...
[01:01:12.080 -> 01:01:13.840] It's really really simple but they just don't do it.
[01:01:13.840 -> 01:01:14.560] One big comeback.
[01:01:14.560 -> 01:01:15.680] It's VAR, it's...
[01:01:17.280 -> 01:01:21.120] Hawkeye, Hawkeye, Hawkeye or no Hawkeye's cricket, what's the tennis one called?
[01:01:21.120 -> 01:01:21.600] I don't know.
[01:01:21.600 -> 01:01:23.040] No, Hawkeye is tennis.
[01:01:23.040 -> 01:01:25.880] Is it? Okay, but cricket did it first.
[01:01:25.880 -> 01:01:27.680] How dare you, tennis.
[01:01:27.680 -> 01:01:29.960] But the argument that comes back is,
[01:01:29.960 -> 01:01:32.800] oh, so you're gonna make five miles
[01:01:32.800 -> 01:01:34.600] of sensors around the tracks.
[01:01:34.600 -> 01:01:37.720] No, you can just focus in on the corners,
[01:01:37.720 -> 01:01:38.720] the key corners.
[01:01:38.720 -> 01:01:42.600] Like, you know that people are going to run off at Spoon.
[01:01:42.600 -> 01:01:45.960] You know people are gonna run off at Spoon. You know people are going to run off at, turn
[01:01:45.960 -> 01:01:53.960] no name in Spa. So there are definitely like all of Austria, if you like, and all of Kota.
[01:01:53.960 -> 01:01:59.640] So there are clear places where you can put those sensors. And it is trivial. Anyone who
[01:01:59.640 -> 01:02:07.200] tells you that it will be difficult to have technology to detect where an F1 car is relative to a line
[01:02:07.760 -> 01:02:10.240] does not know what they're talking about. Anyone who's...
[01:02:10.240 -> 01:02:12.960] It's super simple technology. It's not even expensive.
[01:02:12.960 -> 01:02:19.280] Yeah. Okay. So from my relatively humble place of being an electronics engineer who spent many,
[01:02:19.280 -> 01:02:24.080] many years on positioning and radar technology, if you trust me at all,
[01:02:27.680 -> 01:02:34.880] positioning and radar technology. If you trust me at all, knowing where an F1 car is relative to a line in space-time, anyone who tells you that is hard does not know what they're talking about.
[01:02:34.880 -> 01:02:42.000] I've thought of a way to combat the fact, the excuse that they can't see it. So Spanners and
[01:02:42.000 -> 01:02:47.600] Alex, you might remember from back in the days, was it 1993 when the Williams
[01:02:47.600 -> 01:02:53.360] had the little picture of the driver's legs on the side advertising the Sonic the Hedgehog feat?
[01:02:53.920 -> 01:02:58.160] Right? Make that part of the car see-through so we can see what their feet are doing
[01:02:58.160 -> 01:03:02.240] and so that they can see where the lines are. Done. Sorted. I fixed it. Thank you.
[01:03:02.240 -> 01:03:04.640] Nice. Catman wins.
[01:03:04.560 -> 01:03:06.560] Done, sorted, I fixed it. Thank you. Nice. Catman wins.
[01:03:12.800 -> 01:03:18.400] Okay, we have a really good point here from Barbara. Barbara says a penalty should be meaningful. Professional stewards, this is the bit I think Alex will jump on, professional stewards
[01:03:18.400 -> 01:03:23.440] who should not have any affiliation with any team or engine supplier. If they want the job, they
[01:03:23.440 -> 01:03:28.000] should cut the ties. And also she suggests that we shouldn't mess with qualifying.
[01:03:28.000 -> 01:03:31.800] But I think a penalty should be meaningful
[01:03:31.800 -> 01:03:34.800] is the first thing that we should concentrate on, Chris,
[01:03:34.800 -> 01:03:37.600] because the go-to has been,
[01:03:37.600 -> 01:03:40.000] okay, we'll investigate this in a minute.
[01:03:40.000 -> 01:03:41.200] Okay, they got clear.
[01:03:41.200 -> 01:03:44.600] So five-second penalty, we are being very, very harsh.
[01:03:44.600 -> 01:03:45.400] We've given
[01:03:45.400 -> 01:03:52.440] a penalty, even though everyone could predict that that would not have any meaningful effect.
[01:03:52.440 -> 01:04:00.100] So yeah, there is a tool in the stewards arsenal now, which is we will penalise you without
[01:04:00.100 -> 01:04:01.480] penalising you.
[01:04:01.480 -> 01:04:06.320] Yeah. What's hilarious, and this is all in the circle of life where everything
[01:04:06.320 -> 01:04:14.240] comes back in on itself, because the five second penalty was made as an option because
[01:04:15.920 -> 01:04:19.920] we were giving out too many harsh penalties for tiny little incidents. We're going to say,
[01:04:19.920 -> 01:04:22.640] what are you going to do? You're going to give them a turn, you're going to give them a drive
[01:04:22.640 -> 01:04:29.280] through just because they clobbered wheels at some point. No, let's do something lenient that, you know,
[01:04:29.280 -> 01:04:34.000] slaps them on the wrist but doesn't destroy their race, which was the whole point of the five-second
[01:04:34.000 -> 01:04:40.640] penalty. Now the system is being gamed and so we need to find a new solution. But it's funny how
[01:04:40.640 -> 01:04:45.880] everything sort of circles back. We went from the penalties are too harsh, now penalties are too lenient,
[01:04:45.880 -> 01:04:47.500] we need to make them harsher again.
[01:04:47.500 -> 01:04:48.340] Yeah.
[01:04:48.340 -> 01:04:50.200] Chris is absolutely spot on with that,
[01:04:50.200 -> 01:04:54.240] which was, you know, yes, a 10 second stop go penalty
[01:04:54.240 -> 01:04:56.960] for a little nerf into a corner
[01:04:56.960 -> 01:04:59.280] when no one's lost out on anything,
[01:04:59.280 -> 01:05:00.600] but there's been a bit of contact.
[01:05:00.600 -> 01:05:02.320] That was extremely harsh.
[01:05:02.320 -> 01:05:05.160] They've now gone to the full other end of the spectrum.
[01:05:05.160 -> 01:05:10.280] But you then get the whole thing of, oh, Martin Brundle says it all the time, which is, oh,
[01:05:10.280 -> 01:05:14.000] you're supposed to let the other car back through, but actually now they've dropped
[01:05:14.000 -> 01:05:19.120] back. So you slow down, you let the three cars that have gone past the car you nerfed
[01:05:19.120 -> 01:05:24.120] off the circuit past, and you have to fall in behind them. We do it in rental karting.
[01:05:24.120 -> 01:05:25.680] It's not, it's something you have to do.
[01:05:25.680 -> 01:05:26.800] You have to sit there and wait.
[01:05:26.800 -> 01:05:29.080] Or then you get your drive-through penalty.
[01:05:29.080 -> 01:05:30.720] You know, drive-through penalties
[01:05:30.720 -> 01:05:32.160] are actually a good penalty,
[01:05:32.160 -> 01:05:33.560] but they have to be served instantly.
[01:05:33.560 -> 01:05:35.520] They can't be served with pit stops and all those kind of stuff.
[01:05:35.520 -> 01:05:37.720] So in nearly every form of like karting,
[01:05:37.720 -> 01:05:39.080] which is core motorsport,
[01:05:39.080 -> 01:05:40.560] and this is, you know,
[01:05:40.560 -> 01:05:42.480] something that annoys me with football.
[01:05:42.480 -> 01:05:44.640] They go, well, if we do it in the Premier League,
[01:05:44.640 -> 01:05:50.160] we'd have to do it for Sunday League. It's like, yes, that's fine. That's, yeah, let's have the
[01:05:50.160 -> 01:05:55.760] sport be the same. So, you know, in rental karting, you know, there's always like an AOB board, you
[01:05:55.760 -> 01:06:01.920] know, if you've got AOC. ABC. ABC, that's the one, sorry. Advantage by contact. Yeah. So, yeah,
[01:06:01.920 -> 01:06:10.000] if you have, if there's contact, like no one is kind of vilifying you if there's contact. Like we know contact happens and we're all
[01:06:10.000 -> 01:06:16.280] trying to avoid it. But if you end up nerfing your nose and T-boning someone and then you
[01:06:16.280 -> 01:06:21.420] go ahead, you get your ABC flag and you go, okay, fine, I'll just give that up. But more
[01:06:21.420 -> 01:06:25.420] and more, Alex, like teams are going, okay, I did get
[01:06:25.420 -> 01:06:30.080] by unfairly. I know there's going to be a five second penalty. So I'm just going to
[01:06:30.080 -> 01:06:34.760] yeet it up the road and hope that I can get a six second gap.
[01:06:34.760 -> 01:06:40.580] It's like Perez at Singapore on Albon. He can afford to bump Albon out the way, take
[01:06:40.580 -> 01:06:48.960] a five second penalty because he can get five seconds ahead but overtaking in Singapore is difficult and can ruin somebody's race. He should have
[01:06:48.960 -> 01:06:54.280] had to have backed off, let Albon back through and there it's it's it's madness
[01:06:54.280 -> 01:06:58.480] because as I think Chris said people are gaming the system now which is a case of
[01:06:58.480 -> 01:07:08.960] alright let's risk getting a penalty but yeet it up down the road. And yeah, so it has to be a penalty that is harsh enough
[01:07:09.680 -> 01:07:15.840] for the incident and has to affect that person's race. You can't have a penalty that's not going
[01:07:15.840 -> 01:07:19.520] to affect someone's race apart from the fact they might have to push a bit harder.
[01:07:20.320 -> 01:07:23.360] Jose, Chris, have you seen that comment in the Slack?
[01:07:23.360 -> 01:07:24.400] I have, yeah.
[01:07:24.400 -> 01:07:26.560] So Jose says, you can easily win a race
[01:07:26.560 -> 01:07:28.640] by kicking out everyone off the track.
[01:07:28.640 -> 01:07:32.400] Five times 19 is a 95 second penalty.
[01:07:32.400 -> 01:07:35.280] So as long as you, yeah, you can just take everyone out
[01:07:35.280 -> 01:07:36.560] and just factor that in.
[01:07:36.560 -> 01:07:39.320] And that's the thing is now the penalties
[01:07:39.320 -> 01:07:43.440] are basically like another part of the sport.
[01:07:43.440 -> 01:07:46.240] You know, you can go, right, okay, I will accept my penalty
[01:07:46.240 -> 01:07:48.400] and just add that to my race time.
[01:07:48.400 -> 01:07:49.220] Yeah, exactly.
[01:07:49.220 -> 01:07:51.520] Because it's being used more often than not,
[01:07:51.520 -> 01:07:54.680] I think by the bigger teams to clear slower cars
[01:07:54.680 -> 01:07:57.300] because they know they're going to lose more time
[01:07:57.300 -> 01:07:59.800] by dropping back, trying to re-pass them
[01:07:59.800 -> 01:08:01.880] than they are just by taking the five seconds.
[01:08:01.880 -> 01:08:03.900] And Genesy, the scenario you mentioned there
[01:08:03.900 -> 01:08:10.640] where you've passed someone illegally, but then they get overtaken so there's a car between you and the car that you
[01:08:10.640 -> 01:08:16.640] passed illegally you should just let them both through. The last instance I can remember of this
[01:08:16.640 -> 01:08:28.160] is in 2009 in Singapore when Weber went on the outside of turn seven on the first lap, and he passed either Heidfeld
[01:08:28.160 -> 01:08:29.160] or Glock.
[01:08:29.160 -> 01:08:32.080] Don't ask me why I remember this, it's one of these obscure little things that you just
[01:08:32.080 -> 01:08:33.080] remember.
[01:08:33.080 -> 01:08:34.080] I love that.
[01:08:34.080 -> 01:08:35.080] That's good.
[01:08:35.080 -> 01:08:39.600] And he had to let both of them through, and he's like, why do I have to let Glock through?
[01:08:39.600 -> 01:08:42.600] He's like, because Heidfeld is behind Glock as well.
[01:08:42.600 -> 01:08:49.400] Well, I mean, we saw Lewis Hamilton have to let George and Lando through after overtaking both Emily
[01:08:49.400 -> 01:08:53.220] No, he didn't have to let Lando through he didn't have to let I have no idea
[01:08:53.220 -> 01:08:56.440] He did because that was a stupid call by Mercedes, right?
[01:08:56.440 -> 01:08:59.020] So this is but I tell you what, I mean we're going a little bit away from this
[01:08:59.020 -> 01:09:03.780] But this is where Mercedes have been poor on strategic is they have heard so much on the side of caution
[01:09:04.040 -> 01:09:12.160] Everything's slower like their pit stops. We'll get to that another day I think. My goodness yes another day okay
[01:09:12.160 -> 01:09:21.440] this day is for the listeners suggestions of how we should fix F1. So Werewood says um oh no sorry
[01:09:21.440 -> 01:09:25.360] Werewood oh that was a tease, because I've incorrectly said it, we
[01:09:25.360 -> 01:09:31.800] now have to do it. Add more teams and more points positions. Allow capital expenditure
[01:09:31.800 -> 01:09:36.520] for teams below seventh place in the Constructors' Championship. So, Catman, why should Williams
[01:09:36.520 -> 01:09:47.280] be held back from improving their facilities because of the cost cap. And basically, what can we do to incentivize the lower teams to keep
[01:09:47.280 -> 01:09:51.840] investing and to keep racing? So yeah, to add a bit of background to this,
[01:09:51.840 -> 01:09:57.040] so Williams asked, I think James Vowles went from Mercedes to Williams and went,
[01:09:57.680 -> 01:10:02.400] wow, this place is like working out of a shed, which is nothing wrong by the way.
[01:10:02.400 -> 01:10:05.360] Whoa, whoa, whoa. how dare you take that back?
[01:10:06.880 -> 01:10:07.240] Yes.
[01:10:07.240 -> 01:10:07.560] Okay.
[01:10:07.560 -> 01:10:11.080] So compared to Mercedes, it was, it was really bad.
[01:10:11.080 -> 01:10:13.880] So they said, could we possibly just break the cost path a little bit?
[01:10:13.920 -> 01:10:18.120] You know, CapEx is a, is a proper thing in business where you can spend more than
[01:10:18.120 -> 01:10:20.800] your annual budget to allow you to catch up.
[01:10:21.160 -> 01:10:21.760] So.
[01:10:22.360 -> 01:10:26.540] At that point they said, can we maybe improve our wind tunnel or our facilities,
[01:10:26.540 -> 01:10:31.800] our CFD, for example, and the better teams went, well, hang on, if they, if they get
[01:10:31.800 -> 01:10:33.260] to spend more than why don't we?
[01:10:33.260 -> 01:10:39.280] So it started out initially as trying to close the field, but now the top teams
[01:10:39.280 -> 01:10:41.460] jumped in and then they essentially just closed it down.
[01:10:41.460 -> 01:10:46.080] So it was very frustrating because it started off really well intentioned,
[01:10:46.640 -> 01:10:49.160] but then just got kicked out and the status quo remains.
[01:10:49.160 -> 01:10:53.580] So I a hundred percent agree with, uh, this comment to have forgotten the
[01:10:53.580 -> 01:10:59.000] name of, um, to be able to, to kind of level the playing field in that way.
[01:10:59.500 -> 01:11:04.760] Because currently, if you don't change the cost cap and you don't allow capital
[01:11:04.760 -> 01:11:06.520] expenditure, then you're basically just the cost cap and you don't allow capital expenditure,
[01:11:06.520 -> 01:11:11.000] then you're basically just going to have the status quo ad infinitum.
[01:11:11.000 -> 01:11:17.560] If you really want to fix F1, stop letting the teams run the sport because they've had
[01:11:17.560 -> 01:11:21.640] influence on that decision and that is making the sport worse.
[01:11:21.640 -> 01:11:22.880] Recording stopped.
[01:11:22.880 -> 01:11:24.400] The recording has not been stopped.
[01:11:24.400 -> 01:11:26.200] I don't know what Zoom is playing out,
[01:11:26.200 -> 01:11:27.240] but please continue.
[01:11:27.240 -> 01:11:30.200] That was it.
[01:11:30.200 -> 01:11:32.760] All right, Chris, okay, let's see.
[01:11:32.760 -> 01:11:36.800] Chris, can you see Formula Lib's question here
[01:11:36.800 -> 01:11:39.960] on the show notes?
[01:11:39.960 -> 01:11:43.960] And I would like you to lead that if you can.
[01:11:43.960 -> 01:11:45.200] Okay, I certainly will.
[01:11:45.200 -> 01:11:50.200] So Formula Lib says, get rid of the cost cap, quite simply.
[01:11:51.820 -> 01:11:54.800] And I can see two sides to this
[01:11:54.800 -> 01:11:59.200] in reference to what we were just talking to as well,
[01:11:59.200 -> 01:12:01.960] because the cost cap, as you said, Chris,
[01:12:01.960 -> 01:12:03.720] very well-intentioned,
[01:12:03.720 -> 01:12:05.520] but we have seen some sort of
[01:12:10.960 -> 01:12:17.200] unforeseen or maybe unconsidered consequences, like the fact that Williams can't spend this money to improve their facilities. We've likened the fact that Mercedes can't catch up to Red Bull
[01:12:17.200 -> 01:12:22.320] because they can't spend their way out of the problem. And in a way, that's nice. It becomes
[01:12:22.320 -> 01:12:25.800] an engineering challenge rather than just a financial one.
[01:12:25.800 -> 01:12:33.000] But yeah, maybe there is a case to say that we should jig the regs on the cost cap at
[01:12:33.000 -> 01:12:36.560] the very least, maybe get rid of it in its entirety so that every September we don't
[01:12:36.560 -> 01:12:40.400] have to sit there and think, oh, which teams broke the cost cap last year?
[01:12:40.400 -> 01:12:44.800] Yeah, by the time that they've done the auditing, no one cares whether they've broken this cost
[01:12:44.800 -> 01:12:45.800] cap.
[01:12:45.800 -> 01:12:48.580] That was, you know, 20 races ago by that point.
[01:12:48.580 -> 01:12:49.580] But yeah, I agree.
[01:12:49.580 -> 01:12:53.600] So if you look at the years where they didn't have the cost cap, you'd have teams like Ferrari
[01:12:53.600 -> 01:12:56.900] back in the shoe market area that would just spend ludicrous amounts of money compared
[01:12:56.900 -> 01:12:57.900] to everybody else.
[01:12:57.900 -> 01:13:03.200] And of course they were going to win because they just got more people, more minds on it,
[01:13:03.200 -> 01:13:04.200] more innovation.
[01:13:04.200 -> 01:13:09.880] That's just how it works. So you need a refined cost cap system, which as you rightly said, Chris, we're
[01:13:09.880 -> 01:13:13.360] agreeing too much for a, for a decent podcast here, but I agree with you that
[01:13:13.560 -> 01:13:17.440] it shouldn't be run by the teams because if the teams are allowed to, then they'll,
[01:13:17.520 -> 01:13:22.200] the, the, the ones that who are on top or want to stay on top and the ones who
[01:13:22.480 -> 01:13:24.180] aren't don't get enough of a say.
[01:13:24.180 -> 01:13:26.000] So we need it done by a proper
[01:13:26.000 -> 01:13:33.120] independent body that is able to take decisions and not have any repercussions based on the
[01:13:33.120 -> 01:13:41.440] decisions that they make and that's how it would be effectively managed. Letting the teams make
[01:13:42.160 -> 01:13:46.480] be involved in the rules is like having a steward that runs a Honda dealership or
[01:13:46.480 -> 01:13:52.480] drivers who've worked for Red Bull their entire careers. Okay so where are you going to find a
[01:13:52.480 -> 01:13:57.520] driver that has done their racing career, they've retired, they think I'm too old for this what am
[01:13:57.520 -> 01:14:01.600] I going to do? I'm going to steward. I'm going to go and work in Formula One. Okay oh damn it I
[01:14:01.600 -> 01:14:06.080] drove for Audi, I drove for Mercedes. I drove for Ferrari in my time.
[01:14:06.080 -> 01:14:06.920] I can't do that.
[01:14:06.920 -> 01:14:09.260] You're not going to find someone without any bias
[01:14:09.260 -> 01:14:11.960] if they've got to any decent level good enough to do it,
[01:14:11.960 -> 01:14:15.240] unless we want Brad and Alex to be doing it, which I would.
[01:14:15.240 -> 01:14:16.400] Gladly.
[01:14:16.400 -> 01:14:17.320] I would.
[01:14:17.320 -> 01:14:20.240] If they want to pay me, and I would do every race.
[01:14:20.240 -> 01:14:22.560] They want to pay me to be a steward, brilliant.
[01:14:22.560 -> 01:14:24.400] The number of times we have argued
[01:14:24.400 -> 01:14:26.160] about your interpretation of the rules
[01:14:26.160 -> 01:14:28.720] means that I don't want you in charge of it the same way.
[01:14:28.720 -> 01:14:29.360] Mine are correct.
[01:14:29.360 -> 01:14:30.020] Yours are wrong.
[01:14:30.020 -> 01:14:31.080] It's fine.
[01:14:31.080 -> 01:14:32.720] There you go.
[01:14:32.720 -> 01:14:34.960] But yeah, so I just don't think you'll find anybody
[01:14:34.960 -> 01:14:38.120] who's got a decent level of unbiased.
[01:14:38.120 -> 01:14:40.520] You just want people who can make sound decisions.
[01:14:40.520 -> 01:14:42.600] And the Honda dealership thing is always something
[01:14:42.600 -> 01:14:45.880] that's brought up with a certain DW, shall we say.
[01:14:45.880 -> 01:14:51.960] But yeah, I don't think that that necessarily brings a big conflict of interest.
[01:14:51.960 -> 01:14:54.600] Okay, there's nothing that can be done about stewarding.
[01:14:54.600 -> 01:14:56.440] It's just going to have to stay the way it is.
[01:14:56.440 -> 01:15:02.800] But I do think there is something to be said for more consistency in terms of who is doing
[01:15:02.800 -> 01:15:04.160] the stewarding.
[01:15:04.160 -> 01:15:08.440] If we can have, you know have a permanent race director now,
[01:15:08.440 -> 01:15:11.320] and I know there are fewer and fewer roles
[01:15:11.320 -> 01:15:13.560] within Formula One that are considered permanent
[01:15:13.560 -> 01:15:17.700] given the sheer number of races that we go to now,
[01:15:17.700 -> 01:15:20.080] but maybe there is a case to be made
[01:15:20.080 -> 01:15:24.840] for more consistent faces in the stewarding team.
[01:15:24.840 -> 01:15:25.560] Chris. What about AI? Couldn't we get an AI? for more consistent faces in the stewarding team. Chris?
[01:15:25.560 -> 01:15:26.560] What about AI?
[01:15:26.560 -> 01:15:29.200] Couldn't we get an AI?
[01:15:29.200 -> 01:15:30.960] Have you ever played the F1 games?
[01:15:30.960 -> 01:15:34.880] They're not great at determining who is at fault for certain things.
[01:15:34.880 -> 01:15:36.320] Well, that's very true.
[01:15:36.320 -> 01:15:40.080] But surely with the pace that that is increasing at the moment, it won't be far off before
[01:15:40.080 -> 01:15:48.000] we have an AI system that is capable of being able to make incorrect decisions without bias.
[01:15:48.000 -> 01:15:48.720] Impartially.
[01:15:49.920 -> 01:15:51.680] Yeah, that's what I meant to say.
[01:15:51.680 -> 01:15:54.640] I watched AI doing live commentary on a sim race.
[01:15:55.280 -> 01:16:01.200] I mean, so if they could do commentary, could you imagine what they could do with race duading?
[01:16:01.200 -> 01:16:03.600] But I mean, Lewis mentioned that in the last race doing AI.
[01:16:03.920 -> 01:16:04.560] what they could do with race tuning but I mean Lewis mentioned that the last race doing AI I
[01:16:10.880 -> 01:16:16.880] I would love to see if it's possible but until it is absolutely bang on perfect and they've like run it for a season side by side with the real thing I'd be very very skeptical of letting AI
[01:16:16.880 -> 01:16:25.480] just decide that because the problem with AI deciding it is racing is a very raw and passionate thing which has a lot of
[01:16:25.480 -> 01:16:30.600] elements that go into it that aren't just, that aren't necessarily always black and white.
[01:16:30.600 -> 01:16:33.720] So I just had to nip out but I assume you're talking about Lewis Hamilton's
[01:16:33.720 -> 01:16:40.120] comments about letting AI decide stewarding. I love Lewis Hamilton I think
[01:16:40.120 -> 01:16:46.400] he's brilliant he's a pioneer he's the greatest driver of all time, like no problem with that.
[01:16:46.400 -> 01:16:52.480] But I'm guessing he doesn't fully understand what the modern definition of AI is, because now
[01:16:52.480 -> 01:16:58.000] everyone is just kind of going, well, AI will just sort that out. And I just, I was having this
[01:16:58.000 -> 01:17:05.840] argument in a restaurant just this afternoon. I just, I wish they hadn't have called this AI. Could they please not have called this
[01:17:06.480 -> 01:17:11.680] computers are getting really, really good. Why did they have to call this artificial
[01:17:11.680 -> 01:17:16.320] intelligence? Has no one watched the Terminator movies? Everyone thinks that AI now means
[01:17:18.160 -> 01:17:26.320] an omni... basically the AI god will solve everything rather than computing power has gotten a bit better now.
[01:17:26.320 -> 01:17:31.880] Yeah, so I think that Sky, the broadcaster, should invent it and it should be on the
[01:17:31.880 -> 01:17:34.400] internet and they could call it SkyNet.
[01:17:34.400 -> 01:17:38.600] Sky... no! Because we all know how that ends! That all ends...
[01:17:38.600 -> 01:17:41.200] There's already a company called SkyNet, I've seen their vans driving around.
[01:17:41.200 -> 01:17:48.080] Mind you, 1984 was the best ever year for sci-fi movies, so if they got that right,
[01:17:48.080 -> 01:17:50.360] what else could they have got right?
[01:17:50.360 -> 01:17:54.840] So, have we got to Jug or R-naughts question?
[01:17:54.840 -> 01:17:56.400] I was just going to...
[01:17:56.400 -> 01:17:58.160] Then go, Chris, go, go, go.
[01:17:58.160 -> 01:17:59.160] You want me to do it?
[01:17:59.160 -> 01:18:00.160] Yeah, I want you to do it.
[01:18:00.160 -> 01:18:02.760] Okay, so Juggernaut, I think is what he's going for.
[01:18:02.760 -> 01:18:06.560] Well, it's Jug underscore R underscore not.
[01:18:06.560 -> 01:18:15.960] Juggernaut says, make more parts for the cars made by one manufacturer, standardized like
[01:18:15.960 -> 01:18:16.960] tires.
[01:18:16.960 -> 01:18:20.160] So it's less about money spent on development and more on team strategy.
[01:18:20.160 -> 01:18:25.840] Now, I think there is a case for this, because there are certain elements of cars that we
[01:18:25.840 -> 01:18:32.040] don't really care about, and teams are spending millions and millions on developing a new
[01:18:32.040 -> 01:18:36.760] type of screw for their little thing to put one bit on another thing, and I don't care
[01:18:36.760 -> 01:18:37.760] about it.
[01:18:37.760 -> 01:18:38.760] I can't even see it.
[01:18:38.760 -> 01:18:40.320] It's not performance related.
[01:18:40.320 -> 01:18:41.320] Make it standard.
[01:18:41.320 -> 01:18:46.560] We don't want F2, where everything is exactly the same because Formula 1 is an
[01:18:46.560 -> 01:18:54.640] engineering sport but what can we make spec so that it makes things cheaper but it doesn't impact
[01:18:54.640 -> 01:19:01.520] the engineering challenge of Formula 1? Alex? Well it's like Red Bull have created like a new
[01:19:01.520 -> 01:19:05.520] weave type weave and they've patented it for the carbon fiber.
[01:19:05.520 -> 01:19:11.760] You use this carbon fiber. No one cares about the carbon fiber. Everyone knows it has to be carbon
[01:19:11.760 -> 01:19:15.600] fiber but everyone has to use the same carbon fiber. All the same carbon fiber is bought from
[01:19:15.600 -> 01:19:19.760] the same manufacturer and you all pay the same price. That's what it should be. Stuff like that.
[01:19:19.760 -> 01:19:23.040] You know things like even like brake pads, brake pads, brake discs, that kind of stuff.
[01:19:23.760 -> 01:19:25.740] They just need to be from one manufacturer,
[01:19:25.740 -> 01:19:28.400] because I think they use Brembo, and they use somebody else.
[01:19:28.400 -> 01:19:29.580] And there's various different compounds.
[01:19:29.580 -> 01:19:29.780] Carbon industry.
[01:19:29.780 -> 01:19:31.940] They have different compounds, but Brembo makes them all.
[01:19:31.940 -> 01:19:33.740] Carbon industry, that's the one.
[01:19:33.740 -> 01:19:35.420] Brembo make, you know, but let's make it,
[01:19:35.420 -> 01:19:37.300] Brembo makes them all, and they're all of the same.
[01:19:37.300 -> 01:19:39.200] They're all the same quality, and they're pulled out.
[01:19:39.200 -> 01:19:40.220] So you don't even get to buy your own.
[01:19:40.220 -> 01:19:42.460] You're just, you're sent an amount of brake discs.
[01:19:42.460 -> 01:19:43.460] Different things like that would be
[01:19:43.460 -> 01:19:46.280] useful for the stuff that we don't see, we don't care about.
[01:19:46.280 -> 01:19:47.680] Let them do whatever they want
[01:19:47.680 -> 01:19:49.560] with the aerodynamics of the car,
[01:19:49.560 -> 01:19:50.720] because that's the stuff we see
[01:19:50.720 -> 01:19:51.800] and the stuff that you care about.
[01:19:51.800 -> 01:19:53.560] Let them do what they want with the engines.
[01:19:53.560 -> 01:19:55.840] Anything else, you can standardize them.
[01:19:55.840 -> 01:19:59.320] However, the other side of that is,
[01:19:59.320 -> 01:20:00.320] Ferrari will go,
[01:20:00.320 -> 01:20:03.040] well, it's not a manufacturer sport anymore,
[01:20:03.040 -> 01:20:03.900] what are we bother?
[01:20:03.900 -> 01:20:05.840] Same for Mercedes, same for Audi,
[01:20:05.840 -> 01:20:09.060] same for any other manufacturer is they will just go,
[01:20:09.060 -> 01:20:10.040] what's the point?
[01:20:10.040 -> 01:20:12.640] Yeah, but that's kind of, okay, Alex, that's kind of cool.
[01:20:12.640 -> 01:20:14.160] Win on Sunday, sell on Monday.
[01:20:14.160 -> 01:20:18.720] But yeah, so should F1 be constantly just at the mercy of,
[01:20:18.720 -> 01:20:21.760] you know, people trying to sell cars?
[01:20:21.760 -> 01:20:23.560] Yes, because.
[01:20:23.560 -> 01:20:24.760] Because it always has been.
[01:20:24.760 -> 01:20:25.800] Is that right?
[01:20:25.800 -> 01:20:29.040] Are you about to argue for the status quo?
[01:20:29.040 -> 01:20:30.040] Absolutely.
[01:20:30.040 -> 01:20:34.560] The Judea's people's front would have big issues with that, Catman.
[01:20:34.560 -> 01:20:38.200] I wish I could answer that in the appropriate way.
[01:20:38.200 -> 01:20:41.200] You better not.
[01:20:41.200 -> 01:20:42.200] But no, okay.
[01:20:42.200 -> 01:20:46.920] So the problem is, this is the same argument that people make that people
[01:20:46.920 -> 01:20:49.160] shouldn't go back to the moon.
[01:20:49.160 -> 01:20:54.600] If you standardize every part on a Formula One car, you won't get the next carbon fiber,
[01:20:54.600 -> 01:20:59.840] you won't get the next traction control, ABS, seat belts, for example.
[01:20:59.840 -> 01:21:03.480] All of these things were invented in Formula One and transferred to road cars.
[01:21:03.480 -> 01:21:04.480] This is great.
[01:21:04.480 -> 01:21:07.680] Seat belts? ABS. I thought Volvo invented seatbelts.
[01:21:07.680 -> 01:21:09.760] They might, well, okay, maybe seatbelts were wrong.
[01:21:09.760 -> 01:21:10.960] The three-point seatbelt.
[01:21:12.320 -> 01:21:16.480] Look, this is just like one of my quizzes. Three out of the four points I made were correct.
[01:21:16.480 -> 01:21:17.760] Are vaguely correct.
[01:21:19.440 -> 01:21:25.840] So anyway, if you stifle innovation by making a spec series, none of these things have come out of
[01:21:25.840 -> 01:21:32.160] IndyCart, for example. Now that is a far more entertaining spectacle sometimes, but you won't
[01:21:32.160 -> 01:21:37.840] necessarily get the same innovation, which is what some of us absolutely love it for. Trumpets will
[01:21:37.840 -> 01:21:49.640] be backing me up for the rest of the season. It's true, but F1 in the olden days had less things to invent and innovate on. F1 now is so complicated
[01:21:49.640 -> 01:21:56.520] that if you made everything completely open and got rid of the cost cap, teams would be
[01:21:56.520 -> 01:22:09.000] spending four or five times more than they're spending now. And you would definitely always get the Mercedes-style dominance that you got from 2014 to 2020.
[01:22:09.000 -> 01:22:18.000] So, look, as much as a Hamilton fanboy as I am, Mercedes had a massive, massive advantage
[01:22:18.000 -> 01:22:28.320] without the cost cap. Like, they could just throw a thousand engineers. Mercedes wasn't a race team in the traditional model.
[01:22:28.320 -> 01:22:34.160] Like most people who have... Okay, look, I know it's a small group. Let's find people who worked
[01:22:34.160 -> 01:22:48.560] in Formula One and say the defence industry. And I bet you they would all say that Mercedes operated far more like an industrial engineering firm than a racing team.
[01:22:48.560 -> 01:22:55.520] They threw engineers at it. They chased five different solutions at a time and it gave them
[01:22:55.520 -> 01:23:06.080] a massive, massive advantage. F1 is too big now to say, well, you can't spec, you can't restrict the parts you can develop.
[01:23:06.080 -> 01:23:11.840] And F1 is too big now and too complicated actually to not have a cost cap.
[01:23:11.840 -> 01:23:12.840] No, absolutely.
[01:23:12.840 -> 01:23:14.720] I'm not suggesting we get rid of the cost cap.
[01:23:14.720 -> 01:23:15.720] I'm just suggesting...
[01:23:15.720 -> 01:23:16.720] Oh, weren't you?
[01:23:16.720 -> 01:23:18.120] Well, where do you...
[01:23:18.120 -> 01:23:19.120] No.
[01:23:19.120 -> 01:23:21.880] So where do you pin the development?
[01:23:21.880 -> 01:23:25.680] Do you say that of the materials part of it that we have reached our
[01:23:25.680 -> 01:23:31.280] peak? Because I think as a civilization, we haven't reached anywhere near the peak of any
[01:23:31.280 -> 01:23:37.680] of these things. And so if you pin back the brightest minds on the planet, which some of
[01:23:37.680 -> 01:23:43.440] these people absolutely are, if you pin them back, then you won't get those trickle down things.
[01:23:43.440 -> 01:23:45.280] Like a lot of the Williams team
[01:23:45.280 -> 01:23:49.040] innovations in their team goes towards things like healthcare.
[01:23:49.040 -> 01:23:55.520] Oh, the bus. Okay. So Williams, they did a flywheel that helped buses not have to do a hill
[01:23:55.520 -> 01:24:07.680] start. So a bus can stop on a hill and then go forward. What I don't want to do is overplay F1's significance in general engineering. All F1
[01:24:07.680 -> 01:24:13.680] engineers are brilliant, but they work on very, very tight deadlines. So I just want to be clear
[01:24:13.680 -> 01:24:21.360] on this, that leading defence engineers, electronics engineers, all the smart tech that we have,
[01:24:21.360 -> 01:24:27.640] those people have lead times that just dwarf F1 lead times. None
[01:24:27.640 -> 01:24:33.840] of them are working to regulation sets. They can infinitely work towards greater technology.
[01:24:33.840 -> 01:24:39.520] So Chris, this is an argument I think you and I have had quite a lot. F1 is brilliant
[01:24:39.520 -> 01:24:47.520] at tech, but they are not industry leaders in a broad spectrum of tech. Like the whole electronics
[01:24:47.520 -> 01:24:52.760] and defence is not looking around going, well what's F1 doing? And we must gather that.
[01:24:52.760 -> 01:24:59.440] F1 is very good at very quickly resolving the problems of a specific regulation set
[01:24:59.440 -> 01:25:01.160] for a sport.
[01:25:01.160 -> 01:25:06.800] It chops and changes, doesn't it? Because Formula One tech has influenced other things.
[01:25:06.800 -> 01:25:08.160] Influence is fine.
[01:25:08.160 -> 01:25:16.000] Yeah. I mean, I remember a few years ago seeing a whole thing about how the FIA had helped develop
[01:25:17.360 -> 01:25:18.240] incubators.
[01:25:18.240 -> 01:25:20.320] Oh, during COVID.
[01:25:20.320 -> 01:25:20.640] Yeah.
[01:25:20.640 -> 01:25:26.120] With... No, no, no. No, this was well before COVID. This was about 10 years ago now.
[01:25:26.600 -> 01:25:31.000] Um, and, uh, and that was going towards, um, yeah, the hospitals.
[01:25:31.600 -> 01:25:36.000] Around the world and using formula one technology, but of course, formula one
[01:25:36.040 -> 01:25:38.760] adopts technology from other places as well.
[01:25:38.800 -> 01:25:42.400] It's, it's always going to be a chop and change those, those industries, because
[01:25:42.400 -> 01:25:44.880] there, there is an awful lot of, um, crossover.
[01:25:49.680 -> 01:25:55.200] You were right about the ventilators during COVID though, is that a lot of the F1 teams were able to very quickly manufacture that sort of equipment for the hospital.
[01:25:55.200 -> 01:26:00.400] So they did, again, another example of that crossover saving lives.
[01:26:00.400 -> 01:26:01.680] So I'm not misunderstood.
[01:26:01.680 -> 01:26:05.800] F1 engineers are brilliant, but they are having to quickly react
[01:26:05.800 -> 01:26:09.320] to a changing circumstance.
[01:26:09.320 -> 01:26:12.960] So the regulations are changed,
[01:26:12.960 -> 01:26:13.800] they then have to go, right,
[01:26:13.800 -> 01:26:17.300] what's the best F1 car we can build in this time?
[01:26:17.300 -> 01:26:19.640] And then within that and within the budget cap,
[01:26:19.640 -> 01:26:21.700] they then have to kind of work towards that.
[01:26:21.700 -> 01:26:24.360] All I'm saying is that other industries
[01:26:24.360 -> 01:26:25.400] who are actually
[01:26:25.400 -> 01:26:32.180] leading specific areas of technology aren't restricted by those same things. It's an artificial
[01:26:32.180 -> 01:26:38.740] restriction around F1 where they kind of go, right, you have to do this quickly. That doesn't
[01:26:38.740 -> 01:26:42.160] mean that F1 doesn't contribute to those things, but they're obviously not going to be the
[01:26:42.160 -> 01:26:45.760] leaders in unrestricted technological
[01:26:45.760 -> 01:26:49.920] areas. Well the regulation is the most important part of it isn't it because that's you can still
[01:26:49.920 -> 01:26:56.080] make a road car that has more more is faster in a straight line than a Formula One car or has more
[01:26:56.080 -> 01:27:01.600] downforce than a Formula One car because they are not bound by technical regulations only really
[01:27:01.600 -> 01:27:06.160] safety regulations and emission regulations these days. But I
[01:27:06.160 -> 01:27:12.160] think the question about stifling innovation in Formula 1, what if we had decided 20 years
[01:27:12.160 -> 01:27:18.480] ago that we had hit the peak of what we're going to achieve with Formula 1 and say, now
[01:27:18.480 -> 01:27:21.760] we're going to start standardizing a whole bunch of parts? What kind of things would
[01:27:21.760 -> 01:27:29.140] we have missed out on in the last 20 years if we had decided that then I think you can never say that this is as
[01:27:29.140 -> 01:27:35.260] good as it's gonna get because we're constantly coming up with new mad ideas
[01:27:35.260 -> 01:27:41.220] largely these days around you know artificial intelligence unfortunately
[01:27:41.220 -> 01:27:49.640] there's gonna come a point where this technology is going to start to be used in Formula One, maybe in car design or in...
[01:27:49.640 -> 01:27:57.680] It's already being used to develop strategies, because the Red Bull sponsor, Oracle, does
[01:27:57.680 -> 01:28:03.480] something like 300 million simulations in a race to determine what the best strategy
[01:28:03.480 -> 01:28:12.600] for them is. So we, me and Matt in a conversation that can never be repeated. Okay, so like we had
[01:28:12.600 -> 01:28:20.160] access to like software that helped the teams determine when you should pit and what the
[01:28:20.160 -> 01:28:26.080] optimal tyre strategy would be. And this person said, never tell anyone that we showed
[01:28:26.080 -> 01:28:30.800] you this. So I've broken that already, but I won't tell you who showed us this. But it
[01:28:30.800 -> 01:28:37.520] was so clever, like you could put in any scenario, and it would change like about 20 variables
[01:28:37.520 -> 01:28:47.800] and say, this will be your optimal pit window. So you can't uncork the technological genie and tech always drives
[01:28:47.800 -> 01:28:54.520] forward but there has to be a window in which we say, right, this is the sport. So surely,
[01:28:54.520 -> 01:29:06.680] Alex, surely there is an argument to say our sport is aerodynamics or this is a suspension sport or this is a engine sport you
[01:29:06.680 -> 01:29:12.600] can't under the cost cap say it's all of those things you have to pick what kind
[01:29:12.600 -> 01:29:18.680] of sport it is and then everything else should be standardized. No I don't like
[01:29:18.680 -> 01:29:24.040] the whole standardized thing. Then no cost cap. No no no I agree with the cost
[01:29:24.040 -> 01:29:27.600] cap it's a case of here is what is it 40
[01:29:27.600 -> 01:29:33.440] 50 million a year whatever it is make the fastest possible car you can with this budget nothing
[01:29:33.440 -> 01:29:38.800] nothing else that is that that is the formula but i think now because they have a cost cap
[01:29:39.360 -> 01:29:45.160] they should open the rules more the rule shouldn't be as stringent as they currently are when there's a
[01:29:45.160 -> 01:29:50.800] cost cap. You can spend 40 million across this calendar year, this particular date, make whatever
[01:29:50.800 -> 01:29:55.960] you want. Okay, it's got to be this long by this wide, it has to have these particular safety
[01:29:55.960 -> 01:30:01.920] features, and it has to have four wheels. The rest of it? Go nuts. That would be an exciting formula
[01:30:01.920 -> 01:30:07.600] because we go back to the days when the cars all looked vastly vastly different while people come up with different ideas.
[01:30:07.600 -> 01:30:11.680] Someone might, you know, okay they might, let's say they allow someone to have a fan car,
[01:30:11.680 -> 01:30:17.040] we might get a fan car, we might get a ground effect car, we might get the old style 2017
[01:30:17.040 -> 01:30:22.160] style cars with big wings and stuff and then it's all different and when a car, when all the cars
[01:30:22.160 -> 01:30:25.600] are vastly different you will get better racing.
[01:30:26.160 -> 01:30:31.840] No, I disagree with that. I think the problem is you get too many dramatic concepts that are so
[01:30:31.840 -> 01:30:36.000] far apart. You'll get one that's like Red Bull at the moment, which are light years ahead of
[01:30:36.000 -> 01:30:41.360] everybody else, and then they'll all converge on that the next year. I was quite surprised that the
[01:30:41.360 -> 01:30:45.920] side pods were such a thing with this new regulation set after
[01:30:45.920 -> 01:30:51.080] the first year. I assumed they'd all go, well, that's the obviously the best one. So let's
[01:30:51.080 -> 01:30:56.040] all go down that route. I was surprised that Mercedes stuck with their zero pod for so
[01:30:56.040 -> 01:31:00.640] far and that Ferrari still have the buckets. I'd assumed they would all converge on the
[01:31:00.640 -> 01:31:05.720] one that is the best. That's what is absolutely astounding to me. It's
[01:31:05.720 -> 01:31:07.680] very interesting to see.
[01:31:07.680 -> 01:31:11.200] It's what Lewis Hamilton wanted, but Mercedes said no.
[01:31:11.200 -> 01:31:12.200] Well you know.
[01:31:12.200 -> 01:31:15.680] Well the thing with the Mercedes one, maybe it's the case for the others as well. It's
[01:31:15.680 -> 01:31:20.120] not that they didn't want to change it, they literally couldn't afford to.
[01:31:20.120 -> 01:31:25.000] Yeah. I agree with opening up the regulations with a reduced cost cap.
[01:31:25.480 -> 01:31:29.280] Um, because as you say, well, James Allison said it himself, he says,
[01:31:29.640 -> 01:31:32.920] make it our problem and we'll come up with a solution.
[01:31:33.080 -> 01:31:36.040] It was the same, he said, with that was, he was saying that to do with the weight
[01:31:36.040 -> 01:31:40.080] limit, but you know, with, with innovation, it's, it's their problem.
[01:31:40.140 -> 01:31:42.240] You say have at it and they come up with something.
[01:31:42.960 -> 01:31:49.120] Honestly, F1 cars now, they're just, they're so complicated that there's too many areas
[01:31:50.000 -> 01:31:56.320] to regulate. So yeah, it's like, you know, everything that 30 years ago was just one
[01:31:56.320 -> 01:32:06.320] thing, suspension, aero, now is 10 things. So I think it's impossible to regulate F1 now and say, right, just go, okay, just do
[01:32:06.320 -> 01:32:08.660] whatever you want and go.
[01:32:08.660 -> 01:32:14.520] That series would be unaffordable to most manufacturers.
[01:32:14.520 -> 01:32:18.960] And if you could get people to enter a Formula One where you go, there's no regulations,
[01:32:18.960 -> 01:32:26.240] just make the fastest car around Barcelona, the sport would be awful. And as one of our
[01:32:27.760 -> 01:32:33.760] tweeters mentioned, you would need incredible athletes with necks that could withstand
[01:32:34.480 -> 01:32:41.440] 10G, because you would have cars that could get to a corner and you could have one wheel going at
[01:32:41.440 -> 01:32:45.920] one speed and another wheel going at another speed. Essentially you would
[01:32:45.920 -> 01:32:52.640] end up at a place where each each wheel was driven independently by an electronic motor.
[01:32:52.640 -> 01:32:59.840] It would become skelectric on acid. Like a Nissan GTR. They're brilliant. Have you seen the 92
[01:32:59.840 -> 01:33:05.520] Williams going around the circuit in the garage? It's going up and down, up and down, different sides.
[01:33:05.520 -> 01:33:09.160] It was amazing, but absolutely awful for racing.
[01:33:09.160 -> 01:33:11.640] So I think they banned it because other teams couldn't
[01:33:11.640 -> 01:33:14.840] make it work, and it was clearly the way forward.
[01:33:14.840 -> 01:33:17.600] No, but it wasn't only because it was too expensive.
[01:33:17.600 -> 01:33:20.120] Ferrari tried it, and the cars kept hitting the floor,
[01:33:20.120 -> 01:33:22.680] and Nigel Manson didn't want to drive it.
[01:33:22.680 -> 01:33:24.680] There was lots of things that happened with that,
[01:33:24.680 -> 01:33:28.560] which is the case of people just could not get it to work. And the problem is with an active system,
[01:33:28.560 -> 01:33:31.440] if it doesn't work, it hits the floor and you're having a big crash.
[01:33:31.440 -> 01:33:37.440] So I think, Chris, we all agree that you do need a regulation set to define where
[01:33:37.440 -> 01:33:39.520] the engineering challenge is.
[01:33:39.520 -> 01:33:43.920] 100%. It's not only a safety thing, but you've got to rein them in at some point. Otherwise,
[01:33:43.920 -> 01:33:48.160] drivers will be wearing G-suits and otherwise people will be passing out from driving these
[01:33:48.160 -> 01:33:55.040] cars. But you know the other innovations where you know it took a long time to get them to work
[01:33:55.040 -> 01:34:00.880] like the sequential gearbox when Ferrari developed that. There was a long time when it wasn't
[01:34:02.160 -> 01:34:07.440] the solution that it is now and now it is standard on any racing car or any
[01:34:07.440 -> 01:34:15.760] professional racing car that you can get these days. When 25 years ago there was, oh the gears
[01:34:15.760 -> 01:34:20.720] are slow and it's clunky, it's not quite working the way it is. And then, you know, or what about
[01:34:20.720 -> 01:34:28.080] when McLaren tried to have two brake pedals, you pedals? Or when Williams had the CVT gearbox,
[01:34:28.080 -> 01:34:32.720] which had no gears and it just increasingly got louder and louder and louder as the revs went up.
[01:34:33.360 -> 01:34:39.600] That would have sounded awful, but it was fast. Well, Chris's example was cheating. So 25 years
[01:34:39.600 -> 01:34:47.760] ago they tried that. 25 years ago though, Chris, you were not born. I was, 25 years ago. I was one.
[01:34:48.720 -> 01:34:53.920] But now you're not only born, but we can follow you on a range of social media.
[01:34:53.920 -> 01:35:01.440] Yes you can! It's at Chris on Racing on Twitter, Instagram and TikTok. And I'm also on Threads,
[01:35:01.440 -> 01:35:05.360] but I forget to upload to that all the time. Yeah, threads is dead.
[01:35:06.400 -> 01:35:12.880] Threads is a thing if you want it to be. Sort of, maybe later. Yeah, exactly. But go and follow me,
[01:35:12.880 -> 01:35:17.680] I make good content, you'll enjoy it. Okay, no one else post thread stuff because we all know
[01:35:17.680 -> 01:35:26.520] that we all signed up to threads just in case and we probably won't need that. Catman! It's not died yet. Chris, your bit's finished.
[01:35:26.520 -> 01:35:33.920] It's now the vet. The vet, Catman. Chris Catman Turner, he helped me out when my cat, who
[01:35:33.920 -> 01:35:38.120] wants to make friends with every cat in our new area, but all the local cats don't want
[01:35:38.120 -> 01:35:41.400] to make friends with him, and then he got a split in his ear, and now he's got like
[01:35:41.400 -> 01:35:47.440] a war scar. Yeah, I'm Spanners' cat's psychiatrist essentially.
[01:35:48.400 -> 01:35:51.600] Is he okay? Catman, here's this picture, does my cat seem sad?
[01:35:52.160 -> 01:35:58.320] Exactly. Can you do some therapy for him? Although I must admit, and I have to apologize publicly to
[01:35:58.320 -> 01:36:04.240] Alex because he did ask me twice about the best grooming implement for his cat and I completely
[01:36:04.240 -> 01:36:05.040] ignored him twice.
[01:36:05.040 -> 01:36:06.720] Well, what is it? Just tell us all now.
[01:36:07.600 -> 01:36:09.520] Can I do product endorsement?
[01:36:09.520 -> 01:36:10.320] Yeah.
[01:36:10.320 -> 01:36:12.080] It's the Furminator, very much on.
[01:36:12.080 -> 01:36:13.840] Oh yes, the what?
[01:36:13.840 -> 01:36:16.320] Yeah, Furminator. It's a very good brush.
[01:36:16.320 -> 01:36:17.040] Googling that.
[01:36:18.560 -> 01:36:24.480] I have very fluffy cats, so one of our moggies is fluffy, but I also have a rag doll,
[01:36:24.480 -> 01:36:26.400] so that just like fully pulls.
[01:36:26.400 -> 01:36:28.400] It does sound like an ad now, doesn't it?
[01:36:28.400 -> 01:36:31.600] Although do be careful because you will make him bald if you do it too much.
[01:36:31.600 -> 01:36:35.000] So a bit of Furminator is good, too much Furminator is bad.
[01:36:35.000 -> 01:36:39.000] I have seen this one. I've got one that massages him, which he loves because it massages him,
[01:36:39.000 -> 01:36:42.000] doesn't get much hair off and then eventually gets fighty.
[01:36:42.000 -> 01:36:45.560] This is what happens when Matt Trumpets takes a holiday.
[01:36:45.560 -> 01:36:48.480] Okay, so Catman, you can be followed on social media
[01:36:48.480 -> 01:36:51.320] at CatmanF1 on Twitter.
[01:36:51.320 -> 01:36:54.040] Alex Van Gene, we can follow you.
[01:36:54.040 -> 01:36:56.280] Your name's weird though, so.
[01:36:57.240 -> 01:36:59.440] It's not weird, it's just spelt in a way.
[01:36:59.440 -> 01:37:00.320] Yeah.
[01:37:00.320 -> 01:37:03.640] Which is V-A-N-G-E-E-N, and that is,
[01:37:03.640 -> 01:37:06.320] and I'm just at Alex Van Geen on TikTok,
[01:37:06.320 -> 01:37:08.720] on X, Twitter, whatever it's called.
[01:37:08.720 -> 01:37:11.560] I am on Thread, same as Chris, always forget about it.
[01:37:11.560 -> 01:37:13.960] I'm doing more and more on Instagram.
[01:37:13.960 -> 01:37:16.240] I do have Facebook, but I don't accept any video
[01:37:16.240 -> 01:37:18.880] on Facebook, because that's just family.
[01:37:18.880 -> 01:37:21.920] All right, fair enough, and I'll say now, don't follow me.
[01:37:21.920 -> 01:37:23.600] Don't follow me at Spanners Ready.
[01:37:23.600 -> 01:37:25.600] Don't follow me, Spanners Ready. Don't follow me, Spanners Ready,
[01:37:25.600 -> 01:37:33.600] on Instagram and see the latest video of VV singing a Billie Eilish song with Mum accompanying on
[01:37:33.600 -> 01:37:37.920] chopping sounds on the chopping board in the background. Don't do that. I don't want that.
[01:37:37.920 -> 01:37:44.400] But if you do, it's all in the show notes below. We will see you, most likely, for a news show
[01:37:44.400 -> 01:37:45.600] on Wednesday where me and
[01:37:45.600 -> 01:37:49.360] Matt will catch up with all the real news stories. But I'd like to say thank you to
[01:37:49.360 -> 01:37:56.520] everyone who helped us once and for all fix Formula One. Until we see you next, work hard,
[01:37:56.520 -> 01:38:45.320] be kind and have fun. This was Missed Apex Podcast. podcast. And we'll see you next time. life into a simple conversation. Whether you need help budgeting, saving, or simply
[01:38:45.320 -> 01:38:50.960] need someone to tell you not to buy that $7 latte, Clio will always keep it 100
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