Podcast: Missed Apex
Published Date:
Sun, 03 Sep 2023 21:29:29 GMT
Duration:
1:37:59
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Spanners and Trumpets are joined by Kyle ‘Edgy’ Power and Chris ‘Comms’ Stevens
as they sample all the espresso at the Italian Grand Prix. From Sainz’ stout defending to Red Bull’s ride for glory, no teammate tussle goes ignored in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast
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Spanners Ready Spanners���� (@SpannersReady)
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Matt Trumpets mattpt55 (@mattpt55)
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Kyle Power Kyle Power (@KylePowerF1) / Twitter
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**Summary of the Missed Apex Podcast Episode:**
* The Italian Grand Prix featured exciting racing, strategic battles, and a thrilling finish.
* The DRS zones were perfectly placed, allowing for numerous overtaking opportunities.
* Ferrari and Red Bull employed different strategies, with Ferrari prioritizing straight-line speed and Red Bull focusing on overall lap time.
* Max Verstappen's patient approach and tire management paid off, enabling him to capitalize on Carlos Sainz's mistake and secure the lead.
* Ferrari could have potentially won the race if they had pitted Sainz for an undercut after Verstappen passed him.
* Williams continued their resurgence with strong performances from Alex Albon and Nicholas Latifi, while Fernando Alonso impressed in the midfield battle.
* George Russell and Lewis Hamilton had a tense battle, with Russell ultimately finishing ahead of his more experienced teammate.
* The race also saw several incidents, including a collision between Sebastian Vettel and Lance Stroll, and a late-race safety car period caused by Esteban Ocon's retirement.
* Overall, the Italian Grand Prix delivered a thrilling spectacle for Formula One fans around the world. **Summary of the Missed Apex Podcast Episode on the Italian Grand Prix**
* **Ferrari's Internal Struggle:**
* Ferrari's strategy blunder cost them a potential 1-2 finish.
* Sainz's aggressive defense against Leclerc nearly resulted in a collision.
* Team orders were absent, highlighting the lack of a clear hierarchy.
* Leclerc's performance raised questions about potential team tactics.
* **Sainz vs. Leclerc Rivalry:**
* Sainz's radio message requesting to bring home the win sparked controversy.
* The intense battle between the teammates was thrilling but risky.
* Vasseur's role in managing the intra-team rivalry was discussed.
* **Ferrari's Overall Performance:**
* Despite the strategic issues, Ferrari showed positive signs at Monza.
* The team's home Grand Prix provided a morale boost.
* Ferrari's resurgence offers hope for the future, but challenges remain.
* **Williams' Resurgence:**
* Williams' recent strong performances have made them a fan favorite.
* The team's underdog status and pure racing spirit resonate with fans.
* Williams' procedural improvements and strategic decisions have been impressive.
* Alex Albon's 38-lap stint on hard tires was a highlight.
* Rumors of Red Bull engineers joining Williams suggest a promising future.
* **James Vowles' Long-Term Vision:**
* Vowles aims to modernize Williams' infrastructure and development philosophy.
* The team is focused on long-term growth rather than immediate results.
* Williams' recent success may be attributed to finding an unexpected balance in their car.
The podcast concluded with discussions about the upcoming races in Singapore and Suzuka, where Ferrari's performance and the battle for second place in the championship will be key storylines. **Race Recap: Italian Grand Prix**
- Sainz's stout defending and Red Bull's aggressive strategy were key factors in the Italian Grand Prix.
- Williams' Alex Albon continued to impress with his tire management, running a long stint on the hard tires and holding off faster cars.
- McLaren and Williams are showing signs of progress, with both teams scoring points and showing potential for further improvement.
- Mercedes' Lewis Hamilton struggled in qualifying and the race, raising questions about the team's current performance level.
- Hamilton's alternate tire strategy was a gamble that ultimately didn't pay off, as he was unable to make up enough positions to challenge for a podium finish.
- George Russell had a more straightforward race, finishing in fourth place and maximizing Mercedes' potential on the day.
- McLaren's Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri showed promising pace and fought off challenges from the Mercedes and Williams cars.
- The battle between Hamilton and Piastri at the chicane was a highlight of the race, with both drivers pushing the limits and ultimately avoiding a penalty.
- The race stewards' decision not to penalize Hamilton for his move on Piastri was controversial, with some arguing that it set a dangerous precedent.
**Overall, the Italian Grand Prix was an exciting race with plenty of action and controversy. The performances of Albon, Sainz, and the McLaren drivers were particularly noteworthy, while Mercedes' struggles continued.** **Missed Apex Podcast: Italian Grand Prix Review**
**Segment 1: Introduction**
* Hosts: Spanners, Matt Trumpets, Kyle Power, Chris Stevens
* Episode recorded after the Italian Grand Prix
**Segment 2: Race Recap and Analysis**
* Discussion of the intense racing and strategy battles during the race
* Analysis of the key moments and incidents, including the controversial collision between Lewis Hamilton and Oscar Piastri
* Debate over the penalty given to Hamilton for the collision
* Praise for the performance of Carlos Sainz Jr. and his aggressive defending
* Discussion of the DRS zones and their impact on the race
**Segment 3: Good Thing Award**
* Spanners awards his Good Thing Award to Carlos Sainz Jr. for his entertaining and aggressive driving
* Kyle Power praises the effectiveness of the DRS zones at Monza
* Matt Trumpets highlights Alex Albon's impressive performance in the Williams car
* Chris Stevens gives a shout-out to Liam Lawson for his solid race in the AlphaTauri
**Segment 4: Missed Apex Award**
* Kyle Power awards his Missed Apex Award to Michael Crack, the Aston Martin team principal, for his comments defending Lance Stroll's performance
**Segment 5: Wrap-Up**
* Hosts discuss the upcoming races and what to look forward to in the rest of the season
* They also tease a special episode they are planning for the end of the season, in which they will review the season as if Max Verstappen had not competed The Missed Apex podcast episode delves into the events of the Italian Grand Prix, focusing on teammate battles and controversies. The hosts, Spanners, Matt Trumpets, Kyle Power, and Chris Stevens, provide their expert perspectives and engage in lively discussions.
**Key Insights and Perspectives:**
1. **Mercedes and Toto Wolff's Comments:**
- Toto Wolff's alleged remarks about Max Verstappen's achievements and Lewis Hamilton's comments on his teammates' abilities have been met with criticism.
- The hosts suggest that Mercedes might be facing pressure from corporate management, leading to a change in their usual diplomatic approach.
2. **Alpine's Performance:**
- Alpine's poor performance at Monza, a power-sensitive track, highlights their engine's shortcomings.
- The team's struggles are attributed to the lack of engine power, a significant disadvantage on such tracks.
3. **Max Verstappen's Historic Victory:**
- Max Verstappen's record-breaking win at Monza is acknowledged and praised by the hosts.
- Verstappen's consistent dominance and his ability to deliver under pressure are recognized.
4. **Ferrari's Home Grand Prix Performance:**
- The hosts commend Ferrari's excellent showing at their home race, highlighting the team's strong performance and their contribution to an exciting race.
5. **Mercedes' Change in Approach:**
- The hosts discuss Mercedes' shift from their usual diplomatic approach to a more provocative one, possibly influenced by Red Bull's tactics in the past.
- They express concern over this change, suggesting that it may diminish Mercedes' reputation.
**Controversies and Notable Moments:**
1. **Toto Wolff's Reported Remarks:**
- Toto Wolff's alleged comments about Max Verstappen's achievements and Lewis Hamilton's subsequent comments on his teammates have sparked controversy among fans and media.
2. **Mercedes' Provocative Approach:**
- Mercedes' recent comments and actions, perceived as provocative and unnecessary, have drawn criticism and raised questions about the team's strategy.
3. **Alpine's Engine Issues:**
- Alpine's ongoing struggles with their engine, particularly at power-sensitive tracks like Monza, have become a notable issue for the team.
**Overall Message:**
The episode emphasizes the importance of maintaining sportsmanship and dignity in Formula One, particularly in light of recent controversies and changes in approach by some teams. It also highlights the significance of Max Verstappen's historic win and Ferrari's strong performance at their home Grand Prix.
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[01:55.600 -> 02:13.400] You are listening to Missed Apex Podcast. We live F1.
[02:13.400 -> 02:15.280] Welcome to Missed Apex Podcast.
[02:15.280 -> 02:19.360] The title of today's show is Safe to Race, No Risk.
[02:19.360 -> 02:22.400] That's submitted by RS Archer on Twitter.
[02:22.400 -> 02:26.800] Hello, I'm your host Richard Ready, but my friends call me Spanners. So
[02:26.800 -> 02:33.440] let's be friends. Welcome to our Italian Grand Prix race review. And I think it was quite good.
[02:33.440 -> 02:39.760] The Italian outfit kept us on our toes by rising from their slump conveniently at their home race.
[02:39.760 -> 02:46.920] Williams pulled off 250 consecutive rocket launches to keep the Williams resurgence hopes
[02:46.920 -> 02:53.080] alive and Hamilton and Piastri traded blows while the Stappan cruised his way into the
[02:53.080 -> 02:54.560] history books.
[02:54.560 -> 02:58.080] We are an independent podcast produced in the podcasting shed with the kind permission
[02:58.080 -> 03:05.360] of our better halves. We aim to bring you a race review before your Monday morning commute. We might be wrong, but we're first... ish.
[03:10.240 -> 03:14.400] I'm joined in the shed by my friend Matthew Trumpets. Hello, Matt.
[03:14.960 -> 03:20.000] It's a bird. It's a plane. It's Leclerc locking up in a cloud of smoke.
[03:20.000 -> 03:22.320] Yeah, but he was in control. That was fine.
[03:23.120 -> 03:26.160] It was entirely in control. That was fine. It was entirely in control. I was nothing.
[03:26.160 -> 03:31.360] Man, listening to those two after the race. Oh, that was so thrilling. I like super enjoyed that
[03:31.360 -> 03:36.800] fight that nearly took us both out of our team's home Grand Prix. Wasn't that... And then this sweat
[03:36.800 -> 03:41.280] dripping down their faces as they're like, it was fine. I promise it was fine.
[03:41.840 -> 03:46.000] Yeah, the way he signs is like, oh yeah, it was a really good fight.
[03:46.000 -> 03:47.000] I enjoyed that so much.
[03:47.000 -> 03:49.000] I really didn't want to have, yeah.
[03:49.000 -> 03:50.000] I hope you enjoyed it.
[03:50.000 -> 03:52.000] Don't worry, it's not just me and Matt.
[03:52.000 -> 03:56.000] We're also joined by rising commentary superstar Chris Stevens.
[03:56.000 -> 03:57.000] Hello, Chris.
[03:57.000 -> 03:59.000] Hey, Spanners.
[03:59.000 -> 04:04.000] You've got to get me in for one last show before all those commentaries start up again.
[04:04.000 -> 04:07.640] Is it? Is this your last ever show with Miss Apex?
[04:07.640 -> 04:13.120] This is the farewell. So long, farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, goodbye.
[04:13.120 -> 04:18.320] Before you celebrate out there, out there listening, don't worry, we do grab Chris as
[04:18.320 -> 04:23.600] much as we can, although we're never sad to lose you to a commentary gig, Chris.
[04:23.600 -> 04:27.440] Oh, thanks, man. Wait, hang on. That was a compliment, right?
[04:27.440 -> 04:31.760] Sort of a compliment, but it could be construed as we've got plenty of replacements. Look,
[04:31.760 -> 04:36.240] I refer to all of you guys as my light bulbs, you know, my little light bulbs,
[04:36.240 -> 04:41.360] because you're replaceable and don't last that long. The next light bulb, I mean,
[04:41.360 -> 04:43.760] panelist is Kyle Power. Hello, Kyle.
[04:44.640 -> 04:45.760] Hey, how's it going?
[04:46.800 -> 04:49.600] Mighty Monza delivered us a rather magnificent race,
[04:49.600 -> 04:50.440] didn't it?
[04:50.440 -> 04:51.880] It was good.
[04:51.880 -> 04:55.000] It's such a different feature to the European calendar.
[04:55.000 -> 04:57.040] It stands out for all the right reasons.
[04:57.040 -> 05:00.540] If you had 22 Monzas, I'd soon get sick of it,
[05:00.540 -> 05:02.600] but I can take one Monza.
[05:02.600 -> 05:04.680] Well, yeah, and in sort of, well,
[05:04.680 -> 05:05.440] besides the last sort of two, three years, which have been crazy, it's usually been a bit of I can take one Monza. Well yeah and in sort of well besides the last sort
[05:05.440 -> 05:08.880] of two three years which have been crazy it's usually been a bit of a snore fest Monza you
[05:08.880 -> 05:13.200] don't really have that many classic races there but I think this will probably go down as a bit
[05:13.200 -> 05:17.280] of a classic we had quite a few good battles and overtaking moves. Well let's talk about why
[05:17.280 -> 05:28.000] Monza you know doesn't always deliver obviously strategically wise Matt even with the softest tires, this doesn't offer us an awful lot in tire strategy.
[05:28.000 -> 05:35.000] Well, no, it was interesting. It was almost a two stopper. It was a two stopper for a chunk of the cars.
[05:35.000 -> 05:43.000] But at the front, even with the softest compounds, it's still not quite enough to tip them over into having to make multiple pit stops.
[05:43.000 -> 05:46.420] And that's just going to be a combination of the fact that there's only like, what,
[05:46.420 -> 05:52.520] three actual turns on the track, and just the nature of the asphalt itself relative
[05:52.520 -> 05:57.260] to the rubber that Pirelli has developed for the overall series.
[05:57.260 -> 06:02.280] As much as I've enjoyed speaking to you about F1 over the last eight years, and as much
[06:02.280 -> 06:05.840] as you even say maths instead of math to to like
[06:05.840 -> 06:12.320] accommodate us us uh people on the british isles you still call them turns instead of corners and
[06:12.320 -> 06:18.080] are every single time that feels wrong uh that's what the race engineers call them is it are we
[06:18.080 -> 06:27.200] wrong yeah they don't say corner one they say turn one ah no, no, but that's, I think that's different. I think it applies in that scenario. But anyway,
[06:27.200 -> 06:32.040] if you were counting the amount of corners, they're corners, but I think a turn can be
[06:32.040 -> 06:36.740] turn one, two and three. But let's talk about Monza, because the racing, Kyle, is often
[06:36.740 -> 06:43.020] very scruffy, and you know how much I don't like chicanes. So here's the order in which
[06:43.020 -> 06:46.000] I hate those chicanes. So the first one,
[06:46.000 -> 06:50.960] turn one and two, which is like one of those classic safety chicanes, that's one of the worst
[06:50.960 -> 06:57.440] chicanes on the calendar, I hate it. The second one after Curva Grande is called... go on, who knows,
[06:57.440 -> 07:02.720] who's got turn knowledge? I can't remember. Oh, all of you have drawn a blank, brilliant,
[07:02.720 -> 07:09.120] that's fantastic. So that one's not too bad and then the one that leads on to the back straight before Parabolica is pretty good.
[07:10.720 -> 07:16.160] So Ascari is pretty good as far as chicane goes and almost not a chicane but that first chicane,
[07:16.160 -> 07:22.880] Kyle, the racing there is just so messy. Yeah it's messy because it's super super tight cutback. Now
[07:22.880 -> 07:25.800] this is a slight improvement over the original chicane,
[07:25.800 -> 07:27.760] which could be a controversial opinion,
[07:27.760 -> 07:30.740] which was a double flip-flop that we used to get.
[07:30.740 -> 07:33.080] And that you pretty much could have no racing
[07:33.080 -> 07:34.000] in there whatsoever.
[07:34.000 -> 07:37.320] So at least you get racing, but it is super, super tight.
[07:37.320 -> 07:38.560] And when you've got these big, heavy,
[07:38.560 -> 07:41.120] and clumsy Formula 1 cars,
[07:41.120 -> 07:43.080] yeah, it's either somebody comes through,
[07:43.080 -> 07:45.060] somebody's very, very compliant to somebody
[07:45.060 -> 07:48.640] coming through, or you end up with cars on people's heads.
[07:48.640 -> 07:49.960] I know what you mean, Kyle.
[07:49.960 -> 07:54.040] I mean, I hate the fact that we have this, you know, chicane at the start of the lap
[07:54.040 -> 07:57.880] that provides the best action that we see throughout the race.
[07:57.880 -> 07:59.400] I mean, it sucks, doesn't it?
[07:59.400 -> 08:03.480] The fact that we saw so many great racing moments through there today.
[08:03.480 -> 08:06.000] Ah, yeah, it's awful. Hate it.
[08:06.720 -> 08:11.600] But it is good and it does set up some good races. So as we've seen in a couple of battles,
[08:12.160 -> 08:16.640] you can have somebody will get somebody on the hop as we call it. So get the move them out of
[08:16.640 -> 08:21.840] position into turn one and that can set up a really good move down into the second chicane,
[08:21.840 -> 08:26.100] which is my personal disliked chicane. because if you drive it on the sim or anything,
[08:26.100 -> 08:29.740] it is a nightmare with the big bouncy sausage curbs. And that
[08:29.740 -> 08:32.980] is a super tight chicane. We did see Albon managed to make a move
[08:32.980 -> 08:35.540] stick around the outside of Piastri on the first opening
[08:35.540 -> 08:39.140] laps, I believe. But otherwise, apart from that, you usually
[08:39.140 -> 08:41.980] either get them both running off track or contact or somebody
[08:41.980 -> 08:49.920] spinning like we saw Vettel do in 2019, I believe. So yeah, it's a very frustrating chicane to drive, but yeah, it does offer some good action.
[08:49.920 -> 08:56.400] Well, I would disagree a little bit, not about the difficulty of Turn 4, because it is really
[08:56.400 -> 09:01.420] difficult, but I think it's set up to be several times a really important place in the race
[09:01.420 -> 09:17.520] where passes were made, because as you mentioned, and as we saw Max, I think, ultimately make the pass on Carlos, it allowed if you got better traction out of the end of the first chicane, and you managed to get to the inside, you could
[09:25.440 -> 09:32.720] out into the turn, make him turn in late, and you could take position if you had the speed to make it stick. So not as many happen there. But also, just to impeach Chris's evidence,
[09:32.720 -> 09:38.880] Turn 1 is also the end of the longest DRS zone on the track, I believe. So it's inevitably going
[09:38.880 -> 09:43.920] to be a place where lots of overtakes happen. Yeah, but this Grand Prix, for whatever reason,
[09:43.920 -> 09:45.360] seemed to deliver, Kyle. So do
[09:45.360 -> 09:51.200] we know why we had good racing action here when quite a lot of the time it is quite processional?
[09:52.320 -> 09:57.200] Yeah, it's either processional or you get lots of massive DRS blast paths. Now, I think we
[09:57.200 -> 10:02.960] saw quite a lot of good action into Turn 1 because, yeah, for once they actually got the DRS
[10:02.960 -> 10:10.360] zones, in my opinion, absolutely spot on. They shortened it again this year. And the whole point of DRS is to
[10:10.360 -> 10:15.800] put you in a position to affect a pass, to make a pass. It's not supposed to be a blast
[10:15.800 -> 10:21.320] past and it's massively reduced. And we saw it, it was just about perfect. It will put
[10:21.320 -> 10:30.720] the cars in a position that they could make a late desperate lunge on the brakes. Almost take your team out on, teammate out on the last lap type lunge on the brakes. But
[10:31.440 -> 10:36.960] yeah so I think the DRS zone counted a lot for it and also some of the softer tyres and these new
[10:36.960 -> 10:42.000] gens of cars the regs do work somewhat. They can follow each other closer and they're not
[10:42.000 -> 10:45.600] cooking their tyres. So the Parabolica coming onto that main straight
[10:45.600 -> 10:47.640] is a nightmare corner to follow another car.
[10:47.640 -> 10:50.480] And look how close Verstappen was able to follow
[10:50.480 -> 10:51.440] Sainz and the Ferraris.
[10:51.440 -> 10:52.480] And I think that's what set up,
[10:52.480 -> 10:53.880] we saw it all the way down the field.
[10:53.880 -> 10:55.760] We got some brilliant racing into turn one.
[10:55.760 -> 10:59.160] So the only time I can really think of on the broadcast,
[10:59.160 -> 11:02.920] there was a pure like DRS pass where they were super clear
[11:02.920 -> 11:04.840] was when Verstappen overtook Hamilton,
[11:04.840 -> 11:05.360] but Hamilton was
[11:05.360 -> 11:10.560] on much older hard tyres. I think every other situation we saw Verstappen fighting with
[11:11.200 -> 11:14.320] Sainz and even Perez coming through the Ferraris as well and even Hamilton
[11:14.880 -> 11:20.560] passed the McLarens and the Williams. It wasn't like that. They had to fight into, you know,
[11:20.560 -> 11:25.100] all the corners. Chris? Yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah.
[11:25.100 -> 11:26.640] I think one of the reasons we saw such a great race,
[11:26.640 -> 11:28.440] particularly up the front between the Red Bulls
[11:28.440 -> 11:31.000] and the Ferraris was the two cars and the two teams
[11:31.000 -> 11:33.480] had two slightly different philosophies
[11:33.480 -> 11:35.780] of how to run this weekend
[11:35.780 -> 11:39.560] and how to extract the maximum potential from the car.
[11:39.560 -> 11:42.320] Ferrari seemed to throw a little bit more
[11:42.320 -> 11:43.920] at this race specifically.
[11:43.920 -> 11:49.220] We know their low downforce package has been really good throughout the season and they were quicker in a straight
[11:49.220 -> 11:55.120] line than the Red Bull, which had more downforce than the Ferrari. So we were seeing these
[11:55.120 -> 11:59.000] two different philosophies play out throughout the race and as was evidenced in qualifying,
[11:59.000 -> 12:03.800] there was actually very little to separate them in terms of ultimate lap time. And so
[12:03.800 -> 12:07.680] what you probably, we ended up with was the Red Bulls being faster throughout
[12:07.680 -> 12:12.000] the lap, but really struggling to get past the Ferraris because of their superior straight
[12:12.000 -> 12:13.000] line speed.
[12:13.000 -> 12:17.200] And therefore Max having to get a little bit inventive and actually relying on a mistake
[12:17.200 -> 12:20.480] from Carlos Sainz in the end to make that lead change pass.
[12:20.480 -> 12:25.560] And we saw that filter out throughout the remainder of that battle, not only you
[12:25.560 -> 12:29.520] know, with Max, but also when Checo joined the fight a little bit later on. And also
[12:29.520 -> 12:33.280] between the Williams and the McLarens as well, because the Williams we know has been a rocket
[12:33.280 -> 12:38.640] ship in a straight line all season long. And we saw how that played out in their battle
[12:38.640 -> 12:41.560] with McLaren and also those Hamilton as well.
[12:41.560 -> 12:46.560] It's an interesting track in that regard, because you do have sort of the people who slim it
[12:46.560 -> 12:51.180] down to nothing and the people who bet more on being able to get more out of the turns.
[12:51.180 -> 12:54.380] But the interesting thing, and I noticed this in qualifying, I don't know if anybody else
[12:54.380 -> 12:55.380] did.
[12:55.380 -> 12:56.380] Oh, I definitely noticed.
[12:56.380 -> 12:58.600] Whatever this is, all over it.
[12:58.600 -> 13:03.840] Was that Ferrari was quicker in sector one and sector two, but Red Bull had a massive
[13:03.840 -> 13:06.000] advantage by massive, I mean about a
[13:06.000 -> 13:14.000] tenth, in Sector 3. And we saw that play out in the race, but I think it was signs after the race,
[13:14.000 -> 13:18.240] it might have been LeClerc, was talking about it and said, I don't know what Red Bull did,
[13:18.240 -> 13:26.640] but their ability to get on the throttle early in Parabolica was like he's like I don't know how they did that because no
[13:26.640 -> 13:31.680] one else was even close to being able to get that kind of a launch back onto the straight. So it
[13:31.680 -> 13:36.880] sounds like once again the clever Red Bull engineering people figured out where they
[13:36.880 -> 13:41.360] really needed to be fastest. I thought it was mainly tire life. I thought Ferrari was just
[13:41.360 -> 13:47.960] melting their rears a little bit by the time they got the last turn. But, but clearly Red Bull put their finger on
[13:47.960 -> 13:51.600] the pulse of this track and got their car exactly right for what they needed
[13:51.600 -> 13:52.120] it to do.
[13:53.040 -> 13:57.460] Yeah, agree. Marco did allude to this and said that they pretty much focused
[13:57.460 -> 14:00.360] on the race and not qualifying again. They didn't expect to get polled and
[14:00.360 -> 14:04.160] knew Ferrari were going to be quick. Another factor to this as well is their
[14:04.160 -> 14:05.240] deployment strategies
[14:05.240 -> 14:07.040] for the ERS systems and how they're deploying
[14:07.040 -> 14:08.200] their electrical energy.
[14:08.200 -> 14:10.760] We could see it during the race that Sainz
[14:10.760 -> 14:12.480] was not deploying at all, really,
[14:12.480 -> 14:15.320] going down towards Parabolica and Max was.
[14:15.320 -> 14:18.000] And you could see Max destroying Sainz
[14:18.000 -> 14:19.720] in the straight line all the way up to Parabolica
[14:19.720 -> 14:23.320] and then Sainz basically dumping all of his battery,
[14:23.320 -> 14:26.840] all of his battery up the main straight into turn one. And that was really, really
[14:26.840 -> 14:30.840] working. So I think maybe they were doing this in, in quali a
[14:30.840 -> 14:32.640] bit as well. I think they've got slightly different deployment
[14:32.640 -> 14:34.200] strategies where they're using their electrical energy.
[14:34.240 -> 14:37.000] Are we taking all of this from that graphic that came up? And
[14:37.000 -> 14:39.560] is that an AWS graphic?
[14:40.480 -> 14:43.160] I think that's a guesstimation at best, isn't it? That AWS
[14:43.160 -> 14:48.480] graphic, the teams are no way going to give the information on their state of charges away.
[14:48.480 -> 14:53.920] What you can really tell from what you were alluding to there about how he's closing up
[14:53.920 -> 14:59.880] towards Parabolica, you know, it's an ERS thing when you can see he deploys everything
[14:59.880 -> 15:07.880] on that one lap and then has to do a lap of recharge. So it's not like he was closing every single lap into Parabolica.
[15:07.880 -> 15:11.240] You can tell when he was giving it the full beans on the battery because he would just
[15:11.240 -> 15:13.680] roar up to the back of that Ferrari.
[15:13.680 -> 15:18.680] And then we get to an even better feature about the Ferrari Red Bull Battle, and that
[15:18.680 -> 15:21.400] is managing the rear tires.
[15:21.400 -> 15:25.360] It's so important because you could see on the exit of turn two, every time
[15:25.360 -> 15:30.400] Max was like close or even almost having to back out into turn one because he wasn't quite close
[15:30.400 -> 15:36.640] enough to really maneuver Carlos anywhere. You could see the traction advantage that the Ferrari
[15:36.640 -> 15:48.880] had, but that same advantage was also a big limit for them because as as we saw, once Max finally got passed, he had no tires left in that first stint and was was
[15:48.920 -> 15:52.080] really struggling to stay ahead of Leclerc the next couple of
[15:52.080 -> 15:55.720] laps. So Ferrari felt they could get to the end on the hard tire.
[15:56.640 -> 15:59.760] Yeah, and it was, and it was quite impressive, actually, to
[15:59.760 -> 16:03.040] hear Max, I think it was lap two or three comment. Yeah, Carlos
[16:03.040 -> 16:05.400] is sliding already, because of course course he's sitting behind him.
[16:05.400 -> 16:07.120] He can't really see it on TV,
[16:07.120 -> 16:08.760] but when they're sitting right behind a car,
[16:08.760 -> 16:10.120] he could clearly see he was squirming
[16:10.120 -> 16:11.440] and using a lot of his tires.
[16:11.440 -> 16:12.480] He was like, it's fine.
[16:12.480 -> 16:14.000] He's burning his tires to stay ahead.
[16:14.000 -> 16:14.920] And it was very calm,
[16:14.920 -> 16:17.080] just basically waiting for him to make a mistake
[16:17.080 -> 16:18.440] or his tires to drop off a cliff.
[16:18.440 -> 16:21.280] So it was quite calm and a very good observation early on.
[16:21.280 -> 16:23.000] And this is what we talk about
[16:23.000 -> 16:26.800] when we talk about mental capacity of drivers,
[16:27.520 -> 16:34.880] because you or I would need 100% of that mental capacity to drive a car on the limit, but the
[16:34.880 -> 16:42.080] really, really great drivers, they so little of their brain processing is dedicated to driving
[16:42.080 -> 16:46.160] the car the rest of the time, it's's on strategy and then really, really great drivers
[16:46.200 -> 16:50.040] will have a bit reserved for the cars around them as well.
[16:50.040 -> 16:56.940] And so having that comment made so early on, it also just underlines the confidence that Verstappen had in
[16:57.400 -> 17:01.040] being able to eventually clear signs and get into the lead.
[17:01.040 -> 17:04.840] Wow, Chris, coming across very complimentary about Max Verstappen there.
[17:04.840 -> 17:09.680] Would you say that his dominance is actually really good for the sport and it's a good thing?
[17:09.680 -> 17:16.720] I think that you've been sent the FIA gift basket as well. I don't think it's great for the sport,
[17:16.720 -> 17:26.640] to be honest. It's actually really good. I think, look, we always have to acknowledge and marvel at the excellence that Verstappen and Red Bull
[17:26.640 -> 17:32.600] are displaying right now, because we will look back on this in 30 years and think, wow,
[17:32.600 -> 17:38.480] that was genuinely something so unbelievably impressive.
[17:38.480 -> 17:46.800] In terms of the here and now, I don't think it's great for the sport, of course, because we know that Formula One is more popular
[17:46.800 -> 17:51.680] when we have intense battles and an intense title fight.
[17:51.680 -> 17:55.900] And the fact that we are having this max domination period
[17:55.900 -> 17:58.040] coming off of the back of probably one
[17:58.040 -> 17:59.640] of the best championship fights
[17:59.640 -> 18:02.100] the sport has ever seen in 2021,
[18:03.960 -> 18:06.100] we gained a lot of fans in that period. And now
[18:06.100 -> 18:11.720] suddenly they're seeing the reality of Formula One, which is, this is a bit more the norm.
[18:11.720 -> 18:17.980] Yeah, what we showed them was two weeks in Majorca. And now, now it's all, now it's all
[18:17.980 -> 18:23.580] butlings in it. Now it's all down to Perenpauf with our windbreakers. Yes, that's right.
[18:23.580 -> 18:26.240] You need a complete set of spikes and cloth
[18:26.240 -> 18:30.480] just to keep the wind off of your face. Let's zone in on the teams.
[18:35.760 -> 18:40.080] I picked Perenporth because we've just been there. It's very lovely, please don't at me.
[18:40.080 -> 18:47.080] Okay, I think, look, let's start with Red Bull. So we've covered a little bit of the basics that yes, they
[18:47.600 -> 18:53.080] Don't need to worry about qualifying. So yeah, I get that Matt when they say yeah, we focus more on the race
[18:53.080 -> 18:58.440] I mean, why would you not there is there is no scenario in which Max cannot
[18:58.880 -> 19:00.880] Make his way up the field now
[19:00.960 -> 19:06.000] It was actually a little bit of a change to see him genuinely have to work to get past
[19:06.000 -> 19:11.760] signs. The waiting game is very similar to what Hamilton used to do against his teammates,
[19:11.760 -> 19:16.760] against Rosberg, against Bottas. I wonder whether when they say set up for the race,
[19:16.760 -> 19:22.800] does that mean enough downforce to not slide around, to not rip the tyres up?
[19:22.800 -> 19:29.480] Yeah, in essence, what you're talking about is rather than trying to get the fastest possible
[19:29.480 -> 19:35.840] lap over a single lap where I, at the end of it, I've overheated the tires into uselessness.
[19:35.840 -> 19:44.120] Instead, you're looking at seeing how fast can I make this car go and keep the brakes
[19:44.120 -> 19:49.520] and the tires and all the other parameters that matter in check? How
[19:49.520 -> 19:55.440] close can I get to that? And what do I need to do that? And then having done that, how am I going to
[19:55.440 -> 20:01.520] enable overtaking? And in this case, Red Bull clearly decided that they wanted to be fastest
[20:01.520 -> 20:07.960] in sector three. So they look at how they deploy their energy throughout, they look at where they're gonna collect energy.
[20:07.960 -> 20:10.320] And obviously you look at your suspension
[20:10.320 -> 20:13.320] and your downforce levels in order to enable
[20:13.320 -> 20:15.360] having your best shot and giving your drivers
[20:15.360 -> 20:16.200] their best shot.
[20:16.200 -> 20:18.440] What was interesting about this to me,
[20:18.440 -> 20:20.920] and it's gonna be very easy in a lot of ways
[20:20.920 -> 20:26.800] to dismiss the achievement of Max winning 10 in a row, because he hasn't
[20:26.800 -> 20:32.880] had the same kind of competition that we saw, say, Hamilton have with Rosberg, etc.
[20:32.880 -> 20:33.360] And that's fine.
[20:33.360 -> 20:36.480] We can talk about that later, because that's sort of its own thing.
[20:36.480 -> 20:41.520] But what's interesting to me is I believe this race was really made at the start,
[20:41.520 -> 20:47.020] because we had signs, we had Verstappen, and then we
[20:47.020 -> 20:50.040] had Leclerc in third place.
[20:50.040 -> 20:56.040] And I'm going to argue, I think it was Leclerc's job or should have been, and that's the only
[20:56.040 -> 21:00.680] thing Ferrari should have been looking at is getting him ahead of Max into the first
[21:00.680 -> 21:06.400] turn because we're looking at a kind of a much different race if you've got two Ferraris ahead of Max.
[21:06.400 -> 21:14.240] Ferrari next. Ferrari tactics next, I promise. But yeah, but Kyle, again, a perfectly executed plan, you know, by Verstappen.
[21:14.240 -> 21:21.120] I think his race after turn 14 is somewhat irrelevant because then he's cruising off into the distance.
[21:21.120 -> 21:26.460] But given that he faced a genuine puzzle to unlock this race, which was,
[21:26.460 -> 21:28.480] I can't cruise past him on the straights
[21:28.480 -> 21:30.860] because their top speed was higher.
[21:30.860 -> 21:33.580] And so it's like, well, how much did Ferrari
[21:33.580 -> 21:37.360] have to sacrifice to get that one lap pace
[21:37.360 -> 21:39.620] and then a little bit of straight line speed?
[21:40.740 -> 21:42.100] Probably a bit.
[21:42.100 -> 21:43.420] I think to be honest,
[21:43.420 -> 21:45.360] they went in all legs in one basket. They
[21:45.360 -> 21:49.520] just went on the lowest downforce they could possibly get knowing that the straight line
[21:49.520 -> 21:55.040] speed they know all season long, they have munched their tires more than the other cars. So they knew
[21:55.040 -> 21:58.720] they were probably going to be sitting ducks after a few laps. So I think they've probably,
[21:58.720 -> 22:03.040] they've set up and gone for ultimate pace. Whilst if we go back to setting up the car from the race,
[22:03.040 -> 22:07.480] Red Bull probably went a bit more understeering inclined to protect the rear tyres a bit more. Ferrari
[22:07.480 -> 22:11.160] just threw everything at it. And to be honest, I'm quite surprised that they lasted to lap
[22:11.160 -> 22:13.960] 15, which is quite impressive, actually.
[22:13.960 -> 22:19.820] Yeah, so let's just explain that just quickly. Okay, to me. So the rear tyres going would
[22:19.820 -> 22:28.240] be from traction events, so launching out of the corners, I guess, like, but downforce isn't acting a very, very slow speed.
[22:28.240 -> 22:31.400] So why is, why are the rears going on the Ferrari
[22:31.400 -> 22:33.840] and not the Red Bull?
[22:33.840 -> 22:35.000] The Ferrari looks like a car.
[22:35.000 -> 22:37.400] I mean, I'm just making presumptions here.
[22:37.400 -> 22:38.240] Yeah, so far.
[22:38.240 -> 22:39.080] So far.
[22:39.080 -> 22:41.400] That has quite a lot with its suspension set up
[22:41.400 -> 22:42.840] or the chassis, the way it's just set up.
[22:42.840 -> 22:44.320] It looks like it's a car that's got quite a lot
[22:44.320 -> 22:48.960] of natural rotation. It looks quite front end orientated we've seen right several
[22:48.960 -> 22:53.520] tracks it really wants to turn so of course when you've got a car with a lot of rotation on that
[22:53.520 -> 22:58.480] puts most of the stress onto the rear tires got it and at Monza the limiting factor was the rear left
[22:58.480 -> 23:02.800] tire so if you've got quite a rotated car in Parabolica you'll probably gain a tenth on the
[23:02.800 -> 23:08.320] way in you can rotate the car but when you go for that traction event, on the exit, you are putting so much more load
[23:08.320 -> 23:13.040] onto that rear left tyre, whereas the Red Bull might be a bit more understeery, but
[23:13.040 -> 23:16.240] it means that they're not leaning on that tyre so hard and they can get just a good
[23:16.240 -> 23:18.800] attraction. So I would imagine it's something to do with that.
[23:18.800 -> 23:22.160] That's interesting. So I was assuming, and I'll obviously go to Matt for this, I was
[23:22.160 -> 23:28.640] assuming it was all about how they got out of the corner, not actually going through Parabolica and straining that rear
[23:28.640 -> 23:31.880] by leaning on it. That's not what I was reading.
[23:31.880 -> 23:38.560] Well, it's a combination of the two. The long radius high-speed turns are always going to
[23:38.560 -> 23:45.320] put more stress on your rear tires. And the more oversteer you have built into the car, the more stress
[23:45.320 -> 23:49.180] you're putting on the rear axle of the car.
[23:49.180 -> 23:55.360] And so that became a limiting factor for Ferrari eventually.
[23:55.360 -> 24:03.080] Whereas Red Bull with a bit maybe more neutral setup than they have gone into in past races,
[24:03.080 -> 24:06.660] knew that as they were running out of laps on the medium
[24:06.660 -> 24:12.120] tire, they would have an advantage they could use because again, they had set up their entire
[24:12.120 -> 24:17.880] car to be quickest through and out of Parabolica and down the straight.
[24:17.880 -> 24:21.760] And actually one thing Max mentioned that was also an issue here, and maybe part of
[24:21.760 -> 24:30.500] the reason we saw it take so many laps, besides Max just generally being fairly mature about pushing the issue with Carlos, is that they
[24:30.500 -> 24:33.580] still trimmed their downforce pretty significantly.
[24:33.580 -> 24:38.400] If you look at the flap, which is responsible for, I'd say, a larger percentage of the Red
[24:38.400 -> 24:42.280] Bull rear end downforce, if you look at the flap compared to the mainplane, they trimmed
[24:42.280 -> 24:43.520] it pretty significantly.
[24:43.520 -> 24:51.360] And Max mentioned not having as much of a, unquote natural DRS assist as he'd been used to. So even with all the
[24:51.360 -> 24:59.920] work they did, it took 15, 14 laps for Carlos to run out of rear tires. And at that point,
[25:00.480 -> 25:07.400] they were so close to making their strategy work. They were only about five laps away from forcing Red Bull to undercut,
[25:07.400 -> 25:12.560] which was very powerful and would have worked, but it would have been Ferrari guessing ahead
[25:12.560 -> 25:17.880] of Max. But they were very close to making their whole first stint strategy work.
[25:17.880 -> 25:23.000] And I believe in the dry, that's possibly the closest, in the dry of no safety cars,
[25:23.000 -> 25:28.660] that's possibly the closest we've seen any team run Red Bull and Max this year.
[25:28.660 -> 25:33.440] But even then it still relied on an error from Carlos Sainz into the first chicane.
[25:33.440 -> 25:38.760] That allowed Verstappen a better run out of that and then challenge him into the second
[25:38.760 -> 25:39.760] chicane.
[25:39.760 -> 25:45.520] So without that mistake from Sainz, I really think that Ferrari might have been onto something here
[25:45.520 -> 25:52.720] and because they can just deploy, you know, Sainz as the blocker, because he's got the
[25:52.720 -> 25:56.720] superior straight line speed. And we saw even with the DRS and the best, you know, run in the world,
[25:56.720 -> 26:03.040] Verstappen could only sort of draw alongside and the Ferrari was still good enough down the second
[26:03.040 -> 26:08.160] straight to stay ahead there as well. So yeah, it would have come down to the pit stops at that point.
[26:08.160 -> 26:10.720] Alright, well, tell you what, let's make this a segment.
[26:10.720 -> 26:14.640] Let's talk about how Ferrari could have won the Italian Grand Prix.
[26:18.800 -> 26:22.640] So this is a point of frustration for me during the race.
[26:22.640 -> 26:25.360] So obviously we're watching that defense and you're
[26:25.360 -> 26:31.360] starting to believe because Verstappen sounding slightly frustrated. He can't get by down the
[26:31.360 -> 26:38.160] straights. Even when he was alongside and down into turn one, round the outside of Carlos Sainz,
[26:38.160 -> 26:42.800] Carlos Sainz didn't leave him the space. At which point I assumed that Verstappen would
[26:43.680 -> 26:45.600] follow on with his mantra of what happens
[26:45.600 -> 26:50.400] when you don't leave the space and immediately mount Verstappen's car on the out... mount
[26:50.400 -> 26:56.000] Sainz's car on the outside of turn two. But he didn't. He ducked out. Discretion being the better
[26:56.000 -> 27:01.840] part and all that, he decided to wait on this occasion. Pressure off, no championship on the
[27:01.840 -> 27:09.400] line this time. But then when Sainz ended up making that mistake and hastening the Verstappen
[27:09.600 -> 27:14.000] overtake, slid on the rears on the exit of turn two as well, Verstappen gets past.
[27:14.200 -> 27:18.000] So whilst that was disappointing that they didn't get to play out their race plan,
[27:18.200 -> 27:22.480] it was also disappointing that they then didn't pit one of the cars.
[27:22.480 -> 27:25.360] So from there you think, well, maybe Sainz could pit now,
[27:25.360 -> 27:30.720] Sainz could undercut, Sainz could clear Valtteri Bottas. I know that that was the pit window
[27:30.720 -> 27:35.760] pointed out on the Sky commentary, putting him behind Bottas, but back yourself to pass your
[27:35.760 -> 27:41.360] customer team. Maybe Bottas has a little off, maybe Bottas kind of moves aside a little bit
[27:41.360 -> 27:49.000] or brakes too early and a gift basket is dropped at the door of Alfa Romeo. So I don't think that would have been a major problem. Back yourself
[27:49.000 -> 27:53.680] to get the undercut and then you're ahead on fresh tyres. Play the game again. Lengthen
[27:53.680 -> 27:58.440] it out. So I was disappointed they didn't do that. At that point it felt like surrender.
[27:58.440 -> 28:04.200] By not pitting then, they completely ran out of options to fight at all. They then went
[28:04.200 -> 28:05.280] into that kind of, well,
[28:05.280 -> 28:10.800] he's gone, now let's turn around and focus on Sergio Perez to try and have a double podium,
[28:10.800 -> 28:15.920] but by that point they'd already sacrificed quite a lot fighting Max Verstappen. So you think there's
[28:15.920 -> 28:21.680] a pragmatic approach where you just don't fight Verstappen and you look for the double podium,
[28:21.680 -> 28:28.100] or there's an approach where you go out all attack. But somehow Ferrari found themselves in a muddy middle
[28:28.100 -> 28:31.500] where their biggest fight in the end was an inter-team battle.
[28:31.500 -> 28:34.600] So, how, Kyle, could Ferrari have won this race?
[28:35.600 -> 28:37.900] By having better tyre wear,
[28:37.900 -> 28:40.600] I think in their car is how they would have won this race.
[28:40.600 -> 28:42.600] Okay, well, tell you what, given what they had,
[28:42.600 -> 28:44.600] what could they have done to make more of a fight?
[28:44.600 -> 28:45.840] Because I feel there was more on the table.
[28:45.840 -> 28:50.800] If there was more of a fight, if Leclerc could have troubled Verstappen a bit more and got
[28:50.800 -> 28:54.960] near him, but he couldn't really get near him, the first opening bit of the race, the opening
[28:54.960 -> 29:00.000] salvos really, was Leclerc was looking quite weak. He wasn't looking very good. Carlos,
[29:00.000 -> 29:03.840] throughout the whole weekend, up until the point where the tyres started to go, was looking the
[29:03.840 -> 29:09.280] stronger Ferrari driver in just about every sort of like bit which which we haven't seen too much
[29:10.080 -> 29:15.600] and also another thing why Ferrari were not too keen to pit early because like you I was like
[29:15.600 -> 29:20.080] pit now surely you have to pit them now you have to pit them now was we've just been talking about
[29:20.080 -> 29:24.320] it they know they're skinny on tires so if they pit early they're going to be even skinnier on
[29:24.320 -> 29:27.920] tires. It's a two-stop. Then they have to the end of the race. So they were damned if they did, damned if they didn't, really.
[29:27.920 -> 29:32.000] Okay, so I think we've identified then one thing, Leclerc not being able to get close to Verstappen.
[29:32.000 -> 29:38.160] So number one thing that Ferrari could have done was have Sainz park on the apexes of chicane's
[29:38.160 -> 29:43.200] map. Just park up, park the bus. Well, I mean, the number one thing was Leclerc
[29:43.200 -> 29:49.600] could have actually gotten his car out of gear a little bit quicker at the start and been in front of Max.
[29:49.880 -> 30:05.680] Then we could be talking about signs pitting from the lead. Because if we just assume LeClerc does the same job as signs, that gives Max four or five laps to make whatever gap Carlos had managed to create while the
[30:05.680 -> 30:10.520] clerk was busy defending Max. So that would have changed the character. I felt
[30:10.520 -> 30:14.720] the same way as Kyle did. I'm like, why are you not putting, why are you
[30:14.720 -> 30:18.160] not bringing in signs right now? Because the undercut was powerful and there was
[30:18.160 -> 30:23.200] maybe two laps, maybe two laps, where he was within undercut range and it would
[30:23.200 -> 30:29.680] have been a close fought thing for Max to get out ahead of him. But then you look at the end of the race, and you look at like,
[30:29.680 -> 30:35.840] say, the lap times of the Williams, and you're like, yeah, I'll actually give the Ferrari
[30:35.840 -> 30:41.040] strategist this one. They brought Carlos in the moment they thought they could get to the end,
[30:41.680 -> 30:46.600] with decent time and performance. So they did the right thing.
[30:46.600 -> 30:48.840] Now, if you really wanna wear tinfoil, though...
[30:48.840 -> 30:50.200] ALICE Yes, yes boys.
[30:50.200 -> 30:54.440] JUSTIN Ask yourself, why, when we know Carlos is
[30:54.440 -> 31:01.360] potentially talking to Audi, does he suddenly turn up in Monza with the faster car and on
[31:01.360 -> 31:02.680] the podium, and not...
[31:02.680 -> 31:08.620] I mean, I was surprised they didn't undercut him for Leclerc, because it seems like that's been a trend in the last couple
[31:08.620 -> 31:09.620] of races.
[31:09.620 -> 31:10.620] Chris.
[31:10.620 -> 31:17.220] So Leclerc admitted that he went in a slightly different direction initially on the setup
[31:17.220 -> 31:23.680] in Friday practice, and that it was the wrong decision and went back to it.
[31:23.680 -> 31:27.000] So I guess had a bit less time to work
[31:27.000 -> 31:32.600] with the car he was going to end up qualifying and racing with. And that's partially what
[31:32.600 -> 31:36.020] you know, science was just quick out the blocks, wasn't he? And sort of maintained an advantage
[31:36.020 -> 31:49.440] over Leclerc for the entire weekend. But what if what if science had been pushing so hard and chewing through his tyres, while Leclerc was
[31:49.440 -> 31:51.000] maybe saving them for a little bit later?
[31:51.000 -> 31:55.900] Because we see as soon as Science was struggling with the tyres, Leclerc was all over him.
[31:55.900 -> 32:00.200] So was it just Leclerc playing the tyres a little bit better?
[32:00.200 -> 32:05.200] I think that is the actual case, because Leclerc almost overcut Sainz.
[32:05.200 -> 32:09.200] They were super close when they come out of the pit, so the undercut wasn't that powerful for Sainz.
[32:09.200 -> 32:13.200] I know there was Bottas involved, but yeah, Leclerc almost jumped him out of the pit.
[32:13.200 -> 32:15.360] So it shows he kept his tires in better.
[32:15.360 -> 32:21.520] And personally, if I was Ferrari, as soon as Sainz had locked up and lost the position to Verstappen,
[32:21.520 -> 32:23.200] it was obvious he was struggling.
[32:23.200 -> 32:29.760] I would have instantly switched the cars and sent Leclerc to try to get into Verstappen's DRS and you can always switch the
[32:29.760 -> 32:34.640] cars back later but Ferrari seemed very reluctant to switch their drivers or impart any team orders
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[34:04.360 -> 34:09.520] Yeah, this is it. I don't think this is an out and out situation where there's too much
[34:09.520 -> 34:14.760] inter-team competition between the two. So, you know, we had the attempt last season to
[34:14.760 -> 34:23.200] get signs to move over and they kind of said, oh, Carlos, there has been a NASA meteor observation
[34:23.200 -> 34:26.640] and we think a meteor might land at turn one, maybe you just pull over
[34:26.640 -> 34:31.120] a little bit and let Leclerc get hit by the meteor and then he did that. Stop inventing! Stop inventing!
[34:31.120 -> 34:36.160] So they came up with all these crazy reasons. I don't think politically they have the freedom to
[34:36.160 -> 34:41.840] go, okay, one of you is going to be the dummy, we're going to deploy, we're going to pick Leclerc
[34:41.840 -> 34:47.240] early, hold Verstappen up for Charles. I don't think that would work.
[34:47.240 -> 34:48.840] So that's the problem, Matt, isn't it?
[34:48.840 -> 34:50.560] I think there's no clear hierarchy.
[34:50.560 -> 34:53.040] They can't deploy one against the other.
[34:53.040 -> 34:57.400] And in fact, I wonder if Leclerc would have been more interested in saving his tyres to
[34:57.400 -> 35:02.160] then go for a later charge at Sainz than in playing any kind of team game.
[35:02.160 -> 35:05.920] Well, now that is the question that you'd really like answered, isn't it?
[35:06.400 -> 35:08.840] Was their performance in reserve?
[35:08.920 -> 35:15.360] Because look, we saw what staying in front of Max did to Sainz's tires, and we saw
[35:15.360 -> 35:17.160] how much faster Leclerc was.
[35:17.680 -> 35:23.440] Was he, I mean, Kyle posed the question, do you think maybe Ferrari said, you
[35:23.440 -> 35:25.760] know, you could go faster here and go after
[35:25.760 -> 35:31.760] Max a little bit, make it easier on Carlos. And he's like, well, I don't know, this is as fast
[35:31.760 -> 35:38.560] as my car can go right now. I'm at the limit here. It feels like I'm at the limit on these tires.
[35:38.560 -> 35:46.560] Knowing that he would then have a performance advantage he could use against his teammate, which to be fair, don't
[35:46.560 -> 35:51.560] get me wrong here, I am delighted that we got to see them race like that.
[35:51.560 -> 35:55.000] It made the whole thing so exciting.
[35:55.000 -> 36:00.320] And I just, I just, like in the back of your mind, you just sort of wonder like, like how
[36:00.320 -> 36:03.040] aware was Charles of this situation?
[36:03.040 -> 36:04.040] I think very aware.
[36:04.040 -> 36:05.320] I mean, was he really the one? He knows racing. He's been racing since he was, you know situation? I think very aware. I mean, was he really good?
[36:05.320 -> 36:06.480] He knows racing.
[36:06.480 -> 36:09.480] He's been racing since he was, you know, he was in the womb.
[36:09.480 -> 36:16.920] So if he had put pressure on Max Verstappen in that first stint, he would actually risk
[36:16.920 -> 36:24.560] letting Carlos Sainz get away and possibly hand him the win, hand him home glory.
[36:24.560 -> 36:27.960] And that isn't... God, Ferrari's such a cutthroat
[36:27.960 -> 36:34.020] environment that I actually, I believe this, Kyle. I believe that this could be what happened.
[36:34.020 -> 36:38.480] Quite possibly. We know it's probably the highest pressurized sort of team in the paddock.
[36:38.480 -> 36:43.860] The Italian press are savages when it comes to Ferrari. They're under a lot of pressure
[36:43.860 -> 36:45.200] from the fans. Now,
[36:45.200 -> 36:49.240] what I was actually thinking during this with, and they said it at the start on the commentary,
[36:49.240 -> 36:52.640] they're like, there's two against one. We've seen this with Mercedes and Lewis before.
[36:52.640 -> 36:53.640] And Red Bull.
[36:53.640 -> 36:58.680] Yeah, and yeah, we've had it. So Ferrari, they could have been incredibly bold. They've
[36:58.680 -> 37:03.360] got two cars, they could have pitted Leclerc super early when he was in third, put the
[37:03.360 -> 37:05.000] pressure on Red Bull and committed
[37:05.000 -> 37:09.920] early to the two-stop with Charles. Now, that was very risky. And the reason why I don't
[37:09.920 -> 37:14.460] think they did it was they're at Monza. And if they're seen to make a horrible strategy
[37:14.460 -> 37:18.800] gaffe, then I think they would have been ripped to shreds by the Tifosi again. So I think
[37:18.800 -> 37:21.320] they were a little bit cautious to be super bold with the strategy.
[37:21.320 -> 37:29.240] But see, even then, like, so you're, you're, it's like the, it's like a winger coming into the centre in soccer and like, you know, getting the
[37:29.240 -> 37:34.600] attention of a defender going out to the wing just to stretch the defence. So that's what
[37:34.600 -> 37:39.760] we're talking about is stretching the red ball defence. So if Leclerc pits early, what
[37:39.760 -> 37:46.200] does, what does Verstappen do? Who does Verstappen cover off? Exactly that. Like you would put them in this predicament of,
[37:46.200 -> 37:49.640] do we pit now to cover Leclerc or do we stay out
[37:49.640 -> 37:51.160] and we're having our race with Carlos?
[37:51.160 -> 37:53.980] It would have put Red Bull in a very difficult situation.
[37:53.980 -> 37:56.160] I think they would have stayed out and stuck to plan A
[37:56.160 -> 37:58.060] because I think they had unbelievable confidence
[37:58.060 -> 37:59.660] in their package and their driver to win,
[37:59.660 -> 38:01.560] come what may, whatever happened.
[38:01.560 -> 38:03.460] But it would have been very interesting to see them
[38:03.460 -> 38:04.480] with their backs against the wall,
[38:04.480 -> 38:06.080] having to make a tough decision like that.
[38:06.080 -> 38:11.960] Okay, interesting. Which driver pairing could you have deployed these tactics with? Because
[38:11.960 -> 38:17.160] I don't think Russell plays ball, don't think Hamilton plays ball. Maybe you could do it
[38:17.160 -> 38:22.680] with a Perez, might have been deployed in this kind of way. There's actually very few
[38:22.680 -> 38:25.280] driver pairings where you could deploy this kind
[38:25.280 -> 38:32.800] of 4D team thinking where one person has to be the sacrificial lamb. So we can't be too harsh on
[38:32.800 -> 38:38.960] Ferrari, but it is interesting because there was more, I think, on the table, but ultimately,
[38:38.960 -> 38:46.280] obviously that Verstappen pace is just otherworldly. Yeah, there's not a lot you could have done there.
[38:46.280 -> 38:47.880] Basically in the Mercedes era,
[38:47.880 -> 38:49.560] you could have had a sacrificial Bottas
[38:49.560 -> 38:52.160] and like you said, a sacrificial Perez maybe
[38:52.160 -> 38:53.000] would have been happened,
[38:53.000 -> 38:56.120] but I don't think any of the teams would have done that.
[38:56.120 -> 38:57.920] And particularly, you know, you go through to McLaren,
[38:57.920 -> 39:01.000] really looks like quite a good inter-team rivalry,
[39:01.000 -> 39:02.480] building up Ferrari, no way.
[39:02.480 -> 39:06.660] Yeah, so the only ones you need a very submissive number two, well, not
[39:06.660 -> 39:08.940] even number two driver, you need a very submissive driver to be
[39:08.940 -> 39:11.520] able to accept that, yeah, I think I'm being stitched up for
[39:11.520 -> 39:15.180] the, you know, to, to, to benefit my teammates. So yeah,
[39:15.180 -> 39:17.160] we might have seen it in Mercedes last year when they
[39:17.160 -> 39:19.620] knew their backs up against the wall so far. But again, we saw
[39:19.620 -> 39:22.740] George screaming to be put onto a different strategy. So I think
[39:22.740 -> 39:24.720] you're right, there isn't many pairings that actually would,
[39:25.080 -> 39:26.640] you would be able to do that with.
[39:26.640 -> 39:31.440] Maybe Hulkenberg Magnussen suggests Mark Bacca in our chat.
[39:31.440 -> 39:35.880] OK, let's move on to the battle between the Ferrari guys at the end.
[39:35.880 -> 39:42.480] So Carlos Sainz is ahead with the podium plays and begging or suggesting that Ferrari,
[39:42.480 -> 39:44.000] let's bring it home, guys.
[39:44.000 -> 39:47.760] Hey, hey, hey, hey, what's all this aggro?
[39:47.760 -> 39:53.040] Let's not go so, get so aggy. We've all had our Gatorade. Let's just chill out and bring it home
[39:53.040 -> 39:59.760] and let me get my podium unchallenged. So I, that was a very, that was a very necky and see-through
[39:59.760 -> 40:05.680] radio request from Carlos Sainz when, when Leclerc is obviously pushing, so I assume there is
[40:05.680 -> 40:10.960] some agreement on paper that they are allowed to race, they're free to race. It was very
[40:10.960 -> 40:17.040] aggressive from Leclerc, it was very defensive from Carlos Sainz. I think they were lucky
[40:17.040 -> 40:23.160] in the end to get away with it. But can you imagine, Chris, the fallout? Had Leclerc locked
[40:23.160 -> 40:27.680] up, spun Sainz around, and they ended up in 8th and 9th or
[40:27.680 -> 40:32.440] DNFing. And it was really close to that. It was close to that, particularly on the last
[40:32.440 -> 40:37.440] lap when Leclerc had done the big lock up, and he'd already a couple of laps before that
[40:37.440 -> 40:42.520] locked the rears going into the first corner and slid his way through there as well. But
[40:42.520 -> 40:46.360] what we ended up getting was a brilliant, intense
[40:46.360 -> 40:54.120] fight between two extremely talented teammates and just unbelievable, great sporting action.
[40:54.120 -> 40:59.880] And I'm really grateful to Ferrari for allowing them to race like that and all race long as
[40:59.880 -> 41:05.840] well, because most teams would have shut that down pretty quickly. And that's no fun. We're here to have fun.
[41:05.840 -> 41:11.440] Okay, so yeah, so watching that you go, this is stupid and amazing, yay, this is great. But what
[41:11.440 -> 41:16.160] about, Kyle, if this is a championship situation, if they're fighting for a championship and they
[41:16.160 -> 41:22.800] do this and that's possible next season, got to sort that out. Yeah, well, they'll be taking each
[41:22.800 -> 41:26.200] other off quite a lot, I think I was, I couldn't believe
[41:26.200 -> 41:32.240] what I was seeing. If I was the team principal, I would be absolutely furious at Charles Leclerc
[41:32.240 -> 41:37.560] because he was not in control. He was changing lines in a heavy braking zone, switching,
[41:37.560 -> 41:41.760] like from the inside to the outside, crossing right behind his teammates, who was losing
[41:41.760 -> 41:48.800] all of the load on his front wing as well. That was just absolute pure luck that he didn't just completely harpoon
[41:48.800 -> 41:53.040] Sainz. Like I would like as soon as I see him lock up, I was like, oh dear, oh dear, here we go. It's
[41:53.040 -> 41:58.160] like back over the Red Bulls again. And I couldn't believe it, at Monza as well. So if I was a team
[41:58.160 -> 42:02.400] principal and Leclerc coming back into the garage, I would probably would have, I don't know, got a
[42:02.400 -> 42:05.920] tin of spaghetti thrown on the floor. And I was like, that that would have, I don't know, got a tin of spaghetti thrown on the floor and I was like, that would have been you.
[42:05.920 -> 42:06.960] That would have been you if you
[42:06.960 -> 42:08.280] would have taken your teammate out.
[42:08.280 -> 42:11.660] So yeah, I would not be a happy team principal.
[42:11.660 -> 42:14.000] So I think he's gonna wind up with a post-it
[42:14.000 -> 42:16.800] on his steering wheel that says, this is not a go-kart.
[42:17.720 -> 42:19.920] Well, there's precedent to this with, you know,
[42:19.920 -> 42:22.800] fight your teammates, 2013, I think it was,
[42:22.800 -> 42:24.040] you know, Malaysian Grand Prix,
[42:24.040 -> 42:30.000] and you've got Rosberg and Hamilton, both very hungry, trying to establish themselves as the principal in that
[42:30.000 -> 42:35.120] team. And it was very much up for grabs at that point. And I think now with Sainz and
[42:35.120 -> 42:40.440] Leclerc, it is kind of still up for grabs, who's the number one, I think it is Leclerc.
[42:40.440 -> 42:43.940] But you need that kind of, who was it in the end at Mercedes who came on the radio and
[42:43.940 -> 42:49.320] said like, guys, you've got to chill. Who was it? It was Ross Brawn. And as soon
[42:49.320 -> 42:55.600] as his voice came over, stop now or you'll go in the naughty corner. It did stop. But
[42:55.600 -> 43:01.280] so Ferrari, like, definitely as a fan, like, thank you for letting that continue. But surely
[43:01.280 -> 43:11.160] you think Vasseur should be on that radio. And instead of saying, you know, race safely somehow, it's like, okay, pistols at dawn,
[43:11.160 -> 43:15.520] but no shooting each other, but fire.
[43:15.520 -> 43:20.640] It was ridiculous going, yeah, race safely at Monza for a podium.
[43:20.640 -> 43:21.640] They were lucky.
[43:21.640 -> 43:22.640] Yeah.
[43:22.640 -> 43:25.400] Sometimes as a musician, you get to the end of the gig and you look at a person
[43:25.400 -> 43:28.800] next to you and you're like, well, we got away with that one, didn't we?
[43:28.800 -> 43:35.040] And I'm pretty sure that's how the entirety of the Ferrari team felt because they, I hate
[43:35.040 -> 43:40.880] to admit it, they stole pretty much all the glory from Red Bull today.
[43:40.880 -> 43:45.600] And they didn't do it because Leclerc took a signs out on the last lap.
[43:45.600 -> 43:48.600] So I think maybe just chalk that one up in the win column.
[43:48.600 -> 43:50.200] And yeah.
[43:50.200 -> 43:52.600] But hey, look, this is a weekend, though.
[43:52.600 -> 43:56.600] We're talking about Ferrari in broadly positive terms.
[43:56.600 -> 44:00.000] And if you're a Ferrari fan, hello, bless you.
[44:00.000 -> 44:04.600] But you've not had the smoothest couple of decades.
[44:04.600 -> 44:07.560] So to have your home Grand Prix where
[44:07.560 -> 44:11.440] you know, yes, you guys are the center of attention, a pole position, you're both your
[44:11.440 -> 44:18.840] drivers racing fantastically and looking competitive and they are briefly, I fear it is briefly,
[44:18.840 -> 44:23.080] you know, they are looking like the second best team. That takes a lot of pressure off.
[44:23.080 -> 44:25.360] That's something to be excited about. I would
[44:25.360 -> 44:29.760] be stunned if that was the case in Singapore. I'd be stunned if that was the case in Suzuka,
[44:29.760 -> 44:36.960] particularly. But yeah, it is a net positive for Ferrari, even though the one-two, Chris,
[44:36.960 -> 44:41.040] was sealed up. They essentially won the non-Red Bull race.
[44:41.600 -> 44:46.520] Yeah, exactly. And yeah, to your point about the races coming up, I mean, we'd be talking
[44:46.520 -> 44:51.920] about the Ferrari low downforce package has been very good. And I think that's probably
[44:51.920 -> 44:56.520] why Ferrari started the season as the second best team, because you look at some of those
[44:56.520 -> 45:09.120] earlier races where it was about a straight line speed a lot of the time. And obviously we've seen the second place team form fluctuate an awful
[45:09.120 -> 45:15.920] lot between several different teams at the start of this, or throughout this whole season. But when
[45:15.920 -> 45:22.640] you look at the races that are coming up, you know, Singapore, Suzuka, very high downforce,
[45:22.640 -> 45:29.040] high speed, well, one high speed, one low speed street track as well. Yeah, we're
[45:29.040 -> 45:38.320] going to see some fluctuation again in that battle.
[45:38.320 -> 45:42.080] That's the longest we've ever spoken about Ferrari 4. So we do have to move on down the
[45:42.080 -> 45:48.400] grid a little bit. If you're enjoying this Apex podcast, perhaps consider being a patron patreon.com forward slash
[45:48.400 -> 45:53.120] missed Apex. All I would say is if you look at the iTunes charts or the
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[46:19.280 -> 46:24.240] missed apex. We try and offer some perks, although the main perk is the warm fluffy feeling that
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[46:29.920 -> 46:35.200] literally enabling us to keep doing this. At the bottom tier, there's an ad-free feed. In the next tier up, you get some extra content on a race weekend, a lot more sort of slack,
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[46:48.000 -> 46:55.160] independent podcasts to make sure that we can keep podcasting just a small corner of it for independent content creators and
[46:56.080 -> 47:01.920] You know, it's been a while Spanners since I've come on here and done a push to subscribe to this wonderful
[47:02.720 -> 47:05.200] YouTube channel subscribe to the YouTube. I'm just gonna...
[47:05.200 -> 47:07.680] Hey guys, we had a good weekend.
[47:07.680 -> 47:09.920] Come on, guys, what are you playing at?
[47:09.920 -> 47:11.360] Subscribe to the YouTube channel.
[47:11.360 -> 47:11.920] Why not?
[47:11.920 -> 47:13.840] You get to see our faces.
[47:13.840 -> 47:15.360] Look at Matt's face.
[47:16.400 -> 47:19.840] Everybody thinks that Matt is like a huge big fat guy.
[47:19.840 -> 47:21.840] That's the number one comment I get from people on YouTube.
[47:21.840 -> 47:23.120] When they first check it out, they go,
[47:23.120 -> 47:25.080] I assumed Matt was a big fat guy.
[47:25.240 -> 47:27.640] No, he's scrawny, if anything.
[47:28.520 -> 47:29.920] Come and see our faces on there.
[47:29.920 -> 47:36.440] And if you're a YouTube viewer, do subscribe to the podcast as well so that if you're out and about, you've got the podcast version handy.
[47:36.440 -> 47:40.400] All right. Everyone's second or third favourite team.
[47:40.440 -> 47:41.720] In fact, here, I'll put it this way.
[47:45.200 -> 47:45.840] team. In fact, here, I'll put it this way. Anyone who's been watching F1 for more than 20 years
[47:51.760 -> 47:54.320] would probably list Williams as their, one of their top three teams. I wonder how true that is. Do you think that's true, Kyle? You've been watching for a long time.
[47:55.200 -> 48:00.000] Yeah, I've been watching for a long time. Back in the day, they were never really a team that I
[48:00.000 -> 48:02.000] supported because back in the mid-90s...
[48:02.000 -> 48:03.280] You were Schumacher fan.
[48:02.160 -> 48:03.280] supported because back in the mid 90s... You were a Schumacher fan!
[48:05.200 -> 48:08.000] I wasn't, still very much am a Schumacher fan, so...
[48:08.000 -> 48:15.200] But I appreciate Williams, I know their heritage and since they struggle, now I've become more of a
[48:15.200 -> 48:19.200] Williams fan because it's the underdog and I want to see them come back up and there isn't that many
[48:19.200 -> 48:24.640] independents really left on the grid as well. So we need to support the garagistas.
[48:24.640 -> 48:25.000] The garagistas.
[48:25.000 -> 48:33.560] So yes, I am a Williams fan. And I think it's wonderful to see them up there with a relatively
[48:33.560 -> 48:38.280] decent car over a couple of consecutive races now, we're on totally different tracks as
[48:38.280 -> 48:43.240] well. And Sargent was a bit unlucky today. I mean, even Sargent in his rookie season,
[48:43.240 -> 48:48.440] you know, he's not that high rated driver, He's been doing a solid job as well. And that just shows how good
[48:48.440 -> 48:52.000] their car is and their package. And James Fowles interview afterwards, I think even
[48:52.000 -> 48:56.260] his surprised and I'm a big fan of James Fowles and what he's doing there. And it's nice to
[48:56.260 -> 49:00.460] see Williams on the ascendancy. So yes, I am a fan and I'm happy to see them do well.
[49:00.460 -> 49:07.680] So the thing is, for those who, I don't know how ubiquitous this is around the world, but in sport, Britain loves an underdog.
[49:07.680 -> 49:12.520] We love an underdog story. The most popular boxer of the 90s was Frank Bruno,
[49:12.520 -> 49:16.360] and that's basically because he kept just getting put on his arse, but being very nice about it.
[49:16.360 -> 49:20.560] And so, and we also have a lot of tall poppy syndrome in the UK as well.
[49:20.560 -> 49:23.600] So as soon as someone gets big and famous, we're like, who do they think they are?
[49:23.600 -> 49:27.040] And they just chop the head off the poppy. And so Williams are definitely
[49:27.040 -> 49:32.040] A, in that zone where they're now the plucky underdog. But when they were up there, it
[49:32.040 -> 49:38.120] always seemed like they had good values, good racing, like a pure racing team. Now, I have
[49:38.120 -> 49:44.160] been cutting people down for getting too excited about Williams. And I think part of that is
[49:44.160 -> 49:45.420] I don't want to be, I don't that is, I don't want to be,
[49:45.420 -> 49:48.120] I don't want to expose myself to hope.
[49:48.120 -> 49:49.900] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't want to expose myself
[49:49.900 -> 49:54.740] to too much hope because 2014 was a kind of a false dawn
[49:54.740 -> 49:56.780] for Williams, but I'm also aware, Matt,
[49:56.780 -> 49:58.220] because you and me, you know, we're glued
[49:58.220 -> 50:01.100] to every Friday practice session qualifying and stuff.
[50:01.100 -> 50:02.980] We know Williams are a team that run close
[50:02.980 -> 50:04.700] to their maximum on a Wednesday.
[50:04.700 -> 50:09.680] You know, they're not sandbagging. Plus they're set up more for qualifying than the
[50:09.680 -> 50:14.760] race. And Monza is the track they would have earmarked at the beginning of the season to
[50:14.760 -> 50:19.920] go, this is the one to get a result. But it is looking really, really, really positive.
[50:19.920 -> 50:21.680] But you also have to be realistic about it.
[50:21.680 -> 50:28.720] Well, if we're going to be realistic about it, Williams was the third fastest team today. Period. Nothing. No pushback? Okay.
[50:28.720 -> 50:36.240] I mean, I don't, I can't agree. I don't agree. I was like, let him cook. I was letting him cook, man.
[50:36.240 -> 50:39.760] They finished 40 seconds behind the Merckx. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Third fastest team.
[50:39.760 -> 50:42.480] Yeah, that's, okay, Matt. Oh, sorry. Fourth fastest.
[50:42.480 -> 50:45.000] Oh, fourth fastest. Oh, he's changing it now. Oh, it was Stuart three.
[50:45.000 -> 50:46.000] Okay, okay.
[50:46.000 -> 50:47.000] Sorry, fourth fastest.
[50:47.000 -> 50:51.080] All right, well, I can buy that.
[50:51.080 -> 50:53.720] That is entirely my bad calculations.
[50:53.720 -> 50:58.200] But admittedly, behind the Ferrari and the Red Bull and Mercedes, I'm arguing Williams
[50:58.200 -> 50:59.200] was fastest.
[50:59.200 -> 51:00.200] Okay.
[51:00.200 -> 51:02.520] So, well, they held off the McLaren.
[51:02.520 -> 51:05.000] So I'm going to say fourth slash fifth.
[51:05.000 -> 51:07.840] But Chris, make your point and we'll let Matt justify it.
[51:07.840 -> 51:13.440] Well, look, I think what's really encouraging for Williams as well is that these strong
[51:13.440 -> 51:17.000] results now are starting to come on a variety of different tracks.
[51:17.000 -> 51:18.000] Exactly.
[51:18.000 -> 51:27.800] They were very fast at Zandvoort and probably Zandvoort and Monza are two tracks that are very nearly on the polar ends of
[51:27.800 -> 51:29.520] the scale of what a track can be.
[51:29.520 -> 51:34.260] One is all about the dirty downforce, the other one is all about the low drag.
[51:34.260 -> 51:39.280] So the fact that they've been very competitive on both these circuits suggests there is a
[51:39.280 -> 51:46.080] genuine overall form, increase, improvement happening in that team now.
[51:46.080 -> 51:47.080] Yeah.
[51:47.080 -> 51:48.080] Well, this is it, Matt.
[51:48.080 -> 51:51.680] Procedurally, they are, they are bang on.
[51:51.680 -> 51:58.120] Pit stops, qualifying, traffic management, stint plan, strategy, regardless of their
[51:58.120 -> 52:01.880] car, they are, they're getting all the little things right.
[52:01.880 -> 52:04.200] Well, they're getting most of the little things right.
[52:04.200 -> 52:07.760] Like, I don't quite know what happened in qualifying for sergeant yesterday.
[52:07.760 -> 52:11.920] I don't know if that was a sergeant problem or a team problem with, uh, there was something
[52:11.920 -> 52:16.880] with a medium tire that I thought I saw people talking about, but let's talk about this instead.
[52:16.880 -> 52:21.720] The plan from the start, and we know this from Alex Albin's post-raise interview was
[52:21.720 -> 52:27.640] basically I'm going to drive a McLaren train train today and he went out and did exactly that and
[52:28.360 -> 52:36.040] More to the point and most impressively and I think Albin is part of the big Williams resurgence because he's just so very very
[52:36.200 -> 52:40.400] Very likable while being incredibly cutthroat on the track
[52:41.560 -> 52:46.600] 38 laps on the hard tire. I was like, well, yeah, I know Max, I know Carlos,
[52:46.600 -> 52:50.320] but let's face it, 38 laps in a Williams on the hard tire
[52:50.320 -> 52:52.640] and Norris can't get by you?
[52:52.640 -> 52:54.880] Well, I think that deserves some sort of award.
[52:54.880 -> 52:58.360] And I thought that until I saw that Sargent
[52:58.360 -> 53:01.920] also did 38 laps on the hard tire
[53:01.920 -> 53:08.040] and actually on the one-stop strategy, the only person to gain as many places during the
[53:08.040 -> 53:12.040] race was Perez. And the only reason he wound up losing some
[53:12.040 -> 53:14.880] of those places is because he was in that fight with Botas and
[53:14.880 -> 53:18.760] they had contact and he got a five second penalty. But I think
[53:18.760 -> 53:23.640] sergeant being able to gain that many places on hard tires that
[53:23.640 -> 53:26.180] old even in Williams at Monza, it's
[53:26.180 -> 53:32.280] like they, they, the car has got something cooking for it that it's not had in previous
[53:32.280 -> 53:35.880] years when it's just been fast in a straight line.
[53:35.880 -> 53:42.760] They have found some element of balance that honestly I think mimics Red Bull a lot.
[53:42.760 -> 53:46.160] And you know, now that Otmar is not at Alpine anymore,
[53:46.160 -> 53:49.120] I'm also hearing rumors that some of the Red Bull engineers
[53:49.120 -> 53:51.360] that might've been going to Alpine
[53:51.360 -> 53:53.560] might be changing course and heading to a team
[53:53.560 -> 53:54.760] that starts with a W.
[53:54.760 -> 53:56.000] I don't know which one that could be.
[53:56.000 -> 53:57.960] Williams, I think it's Williams, Kyle.
[53:59.840 -> 54:01.000] One could think.
[54:01.000 -> 54:03.640] Now that's a little golden nugget of information
[54:03.640 -> 54:05.120] I was not aware of.
[54:05.120 -> 54:06.520] So that's quite a good one.
[54:06.520 -> 54:08.440] And it kind of aligns with what James Vowles
[54:08.440 -> 54:09.520] has recently come out and said,
[54:09.520 -> 54:12.680] because we are just about to poach a lot of good staff
[54:12.680 -> 54:14.720] from good teams as well.
[54:14.720 -> 54:16.040] So they're putting resurgence.
[54:16.040 -> 54:18.200] And the thing with Williams and resurgence is,
[54:18.200 -> 54:20.240] and James Vowles said this when he went there was,
[54:20.240 -> 54:23.400] they're probably about 20 years behind in development,
[54:23.400 -> 54:30.480] philosophy and how they go about. They're a small sort of family team, if you would, but with the cost cap, it's really hard to claw
[54:30.480 -> 54:34.400] back some of this. So he said they're not actually looking at this year or next year. It's the sort of
[54:34.400 -> 54:39.120] 2026 we're kind of looking at and trying to get the infrastructure in place so we can function
[54:39.120 -> 54:44.400] as an elite team. But as Matt said, they've found something with this car where it's now suddenly
[54:44.400 -> 54:48.820] pretty decent in the corners because Zandvoort, I don't think any of them could explain why
[54:48.820 -> 54:51.760] they were quick there. I think Albon even just come straight out and said it goes quick
[54:51.760 -> 54:56.640] fast, but we don't know why. So obviously means the car is working in the corners and
[54:56.640 -> 55:00.240] they turned up expecting to struggle and they were really, really quick there. So it's going
[55:00.240 -> 55:08.800] to be fascinating to see what they do at Singapore. Cause Albon has constantly displayed this ability to get tires to the end
[55:08.820 -> 55:12.080] and 38 laps on the hard tires is impressive, but what's even more
[55:12.080 -> 55:15.720] impressive because it's in the Williams was they're running next to no downforce.
[55:15.720 -> 55:19.700] So that means you'll slide around more and you'd load and overwork the tires more.
[55:19.700 -> 55:23.620] So the fact that he can go the longest that anyone on the hard tires with a
[55:23.620 -> 55:25.280] lower downforce setup
[55:25.280 -> 55:26.280] just goes well.
[55:26.280 -> 55:30.240] I don't know whether that's a great sort of nod to his driving, to the car, or a bit of
[55:30.240 -> 55:31.240] both.
[55:31.240 -> 55:32.240] I'd probably say a bit of both.
[55:32.240 -> 55:35.140] Okay, so Matt, can we at least agree, right?
[55:35.140 -> 55:40.560] So expectation management, because I desperately want Williams to do well.
[55:40.560 -> 55:46.600] So I would say that regularly getting at the lower end of the points constitutes success.
[55:46.600 -> 55:52.920] So they keep popping up like P1, P2 in Friday practice, or they get a qualifying where they
[55:52.920 -> 55:58.240] pop up, you know, fourth, fifth, sixth. That's all fine and well, but I'm looking at Sunday,
[55:58.240 -> 56:04.200] Sunday, Sunday. So if they're getting a point, two points on a Sunday, that to me is a bar
[56:04.200 -> 56:05.440] of success for the Williams.
[56:05.440 -> 56:07.440] I really, I don't care about Friday Williams.
[56:07.440 -> 56:09.440] I don't care where they are on the grid.
[56:09.440 -> 56:13.480] I want to see them at the chequered flag in the points.
[56:13.480 -> 56:20.640] Well, understand this, much like me and bike racing, when I had long climbs, my strategy
[56:20.640 -> 56:25.680] was always to be at the very front of the race at the bottom of the climb and then
[56:25.680 -> 56:31.360] slowly pedal backwards and hopefully still be in touch with the field at the top. So the reason we
[56:31.360 -> 56:38.080] see Williams fast on a Friday is their qualifying strategy is how far up the grid can I start
[56:38.640 -> 56:49.280] and then how many places can I manage to not lose, maybe hang on for a point. So, so I understand why you could be misled by their Friday strategy, but I'm
[56:49.280 -> 56:52.300] pretty convinced that's, that's been the plan all season long.
[56:52.580 -> 56:57.700] And what I love about it is, is, is Kyle says is with the balance they have found
[56:57.700 -> 57:02.480] in this car, their tire wear has improved to the point where, and especially.
[57:02.980 -> 57:07.320] At a track like Monza where you're defending skills can really matter
[57:07.320 -> 57:10.200] for something, and we saw this with signs too,
[57:10.200 -> 57:13.400] is this is a rare track where if you are good at defense,
[57:13.400 -> 57:16.520] you can hold off some of those faster cars,
[57:16.520 -> 57:19.400] especially if you've gone into it understanding
[57:19.400 -> 57:20.680] that's your brief.
[57:20.680 -> 57:21.500] Sure.
[57:21.500 -> 57:23.960] And we saw Albin do it, we saw Signs do it,
[57:23.960 -> 57:27.240] and I love actually, did anyone else catch this? And this is the last thing I'm gonna say saw Albin do it, we saw Science do it. And I love actually, did anyone else catch this?
[57:27.240 -> 57:31.360] And this is the last thing I'm going to say about Albin, because I've long been a fan
[57:31.360 -> 57:32.520] as you know.
[57:32.520 -> 57:37.040] But after the race, and maybe this is a bigger Turn 1 debate, but after the race, he and
[57:37.040 -> 57:40.280] Norris were being interviewed together on F1 TV.
[57:40.280 -> 57:46.960] And he's like, oh, and Norris was was gently, you know, because their friends off the track,
[57:46.960 -> 57:51.360] you know, saying, well, you just totally pushed me off there that time I had the run.
[57:51.360 -> 57:55.440] And Alvin's like, oh, he's like, did you like he says, do you like like like the way that I
[57:55.440 -> 58:00.640] braked super early then for turn two and turned extra wide so it would look like I actually gave
[58:00.640 -> 58:05.060] you space? Yeah, I'm like, thank you, Alex.
[58:05.060 -> 58:06.800] Thank you for making my whole post
[58:06.800 -> 58:08.420] raised better with that comment.
[58:08.420 -> 58:09.260] Amazing.
[58:09.260 -> 58:11.480] So, maybe it is a valid tactic then.
[58:11.480 -> 58:14.820] Just get as far as you can up ahead and hang on.
[58:14.820 -> 58:16.480] And if you'll, those of you who watch
[58:16.480 -> 58:18.500] the Remain Indoors podcast during lockdown,
[58:18.500 -> 58:20.640] you remember Lauren Thomas, our runner,
[58:20.640 -> 58:23.340] and she used to say, when I set off on a 5K,
[58:23.340 -> 58:26.800] I'd start, I'd set off like an eight-year-old chasing an ice cream van and
[58:26.960 -> 58:31.800] Then and then it would be a case of trying to cling on and not die for the rest of the 5k
[58:31.800 -> 58:35.040] So, okay, I'll appreciate that tactic that will work very well
[58:35.040 -> 58:42.560] If they can get up ahead say in Singapore and get a good qualifying that might bode very very well a race where basically
[58:42.560 -> 58:49.120] Tyre wear is not an issue because everyone just parks the bus waiting for that one-stop window.
[58:49.120 -> 58:59.880] Okay, I think the final big point, guys, is probably McLaren versus Mercedes. So, some
[58:59.880 -> 59:05.800] interesting things bubbling in McLaren and I'm loving the growing dynamic between Norris
[59:05.800 -> 59:10.840] and this very, very promising rookie. And obviously we can have a little look at the
[59:10.840 -> 59:16.360] tactics Mercedes used for Hamilton. Russell had a bit more of a straight forward race
[59:16.360 -> 59:22.320] up front and probably got the maximum out of what Mercedes could do over the weekend.
[59:22.320 -> 59:30.040] Obviously Lewis Hamilton with yet another disappointing qualifying Chris. I think that maybe we start there, but what's going on with Hamilton,
[59:30.040 -> 59:36.240] their approach to qualifying seems to just have them being nowhere in not just Q3, like
[59:36.240 -> 59:40.520] every session Hamilton looks at risk of going out at the moment.
[59:40.520 -> 59:46.220] It was a real struggle, wasn't it? And yeah, we say this is the McLaren versus Mercedes segment.
[59:46.220 -> 59:49.080] It's really McLaren versus Lewis Hamilton.
[59:49.080 -> 59:51.680] Because as you said, Russell was, he did the job.
[59:51.680 -> 59:52.680] Yeah.
[59:52.680 -> 59:53.680] Yeah.
[59:53.680 -> 59:57.960] Actually challenging with the Checo for fourth.
[59:57.960 -> 01:00:03.360] Whereas Lewis, every time he went on board with him in qualifying, he's ringing in the
[01:00:03.360 -> 01:00:13.520] neck of that thing and really struggling to tame the rear end. And so I don't know if in a bid to cut the drag down, because
[01:00:13.520 -> 01:00:19.360] we know they're struggling for straight line speed still, they've got it to a point where
[01:00:19.360 -> 01:00:26.160] it was just becoming a bit of a dog to drive. And you know And we saw they were flip-flopping on setups and rear wings in
[01:00:26.800 -> 01:00:32.240] Friday practice, and it was just a general struggle and maybe indicates that they still
[01:00:32.240 -> 01:00:39.360] haven't quite got the finger down on how to extract the maximum from this car, which we know
[01:00:39.360 -> 01:00:45.720] is still not in the place where it needs to be, and they're still not extracting the most from it.
[01:00:45.720 -> 01:00:51.720] So I think going for the alternate tyre strategy today was probably the only way.
[01:00:51.720 -> 01:00:57.120] I know you disagree with this, but I don't see how much higher was Lewis going to get
[01:00:57.120 -> 01:00:58.120] on a regular straight.
[01:00:58.120 -> 01:01:01.920] It literally, sixth was the best he was ever going to get today, and he got it.
[01:01:01.920 -> 01:01:09.040] Maybe you're right, but let me lay out then, because me and Matt have argued about this. Sadly, it's true, Chris is right.
[01:01:09.040 -> 01:01:12.840] So to me, it's sad when you see that ultimate strategy, it means something's gone wrong
[01:01:12.840 -> 01:01:18.440] in qualifying, right? And now we're seeing Hamilton on the alternate strategy too often
[01:01:18.440 -> 01:01:26.800] because something's gone wrong in qualifying. It's only been the last maybe like three or four out of the last six races,
[01:01:26.800 -> 01:01:33.800] but you see that out of place car going onto the harder tyre to go long to hope for a safety
[01:01:33.800 -> 01:01:38.800] car in their safety car window between the softer tyre going off and pitting and them
[01:01:38.800 -> 01:01:43.600] being able to stretch out on the harder tyre. But you look at Lewis Hamilton, who wants
[01:01:43.600 -> 01:01:48.920] downforce, downforce, downforce, downforce. That's always what he wants. That's always what he's going for. Perhaps why he
[01:01:48.920 -> 01:01:53.720] loses a little bit in qualifying and is a bit better in the race. But since 2015, he
[01:01:53.720 -> 01:01:58.360] seems to have always gone for that. So you see Lewis Hamilton, it's Monza, he's probably
[01:01:58.360 -> 01:02:02.400] running a bit too much downforce anyway. He's going to go on the hard tyre, so he's going
[01:02:02.400 -> 01:02:07.160] to get stuck. And this is all pre-raceace This is the rant I was having in our whatsapp group
[01:02:07.160 -> 01:02:12.800] So he's gonna lose off off of the grid because he's got a harder tire than everybody else around him
[01:02:12.800 -> 01:02:17.320] Then he's stuck behind cars unless he's in ultra tire saving mode
[01:02:17.320 -> 01:02:20.540] He's not gonna be able to attack them so the only option has to be
[01:02:21.000 -> 01:02:25.880] He's got to go to lap 48, and what'd you call it, Carl? You call it goal hanging.
[01:02:25.880 -> 01:02:27.920] You'd have to use the goal hanging tactic
[01:02:27.920 -> 01:02:30.600] that Russell did so effectively last season.
[01:02:30.600 -> 01:02:32.040] But they didn't even do that.
[01:02:32.040 -> 01:02:36.900] He ran seven laps only longer than Norris and Piastri.
[01:02:36.900 -> 01:02:38.600] Yeah, I think they had that window.
[01:02:38.600 -> 01:02:40.440] And yes, I think I said in the group chat,
[01:02:40.440 -> 01:02:41.760] I was at right goal hang time.
[01:02:41.760 -> 01:02:43.440] They're going to stay there for as long as possible,
[01:02:43.440 -> 01:02:46.800] but the numbers just weren't adding up and they could see
[01:02:46.800 -> 01:02:48.440] they were losing touch with the McLarens,
[01:02:48.440 -> 01:02:49.840] we're going to be so far out of their window.
[01:02:49.840 -> 01:02:53.360] So their thinking behind doing the alternate tire strategy
[01:02:53.360 -> 01:02:55.340] was they knew they didn't have great pace.
[01:02:55.340 -> 01:02:57.640] They knew they didn't have great straight line speed.
[01:02:57.640 -> 01:03:00.200] So if it's status quo and on the same tires
[01:03:00.200 -> 01:03:01.200] as the cars in front,
[01:03:01.200 -> 01:03:02.920] they were probably going to get stuck anyway.
[01:03:02.920 -> 01:03:09.920] So that, so their whole power play was like the 15 laps, pretty much was having a good tire offset there to allow Lewis to
[01:03:09.920 -> 01:03:14.640] overtake. And on that sense, you have to say that it did actually work, but they were fully aware
[01:03:14.640 -> 01:03:18.160] they were going to take some pain in the beginning. Lewis managed to do a good job,
[01:03:18.160 -> 01:03:23.600] minimize that pain. Yes, he lost a position, but I don't think he actually, it could have been a lot
[01:03:23.600 -> 01:03:25.080] worse if he, if Alonso
[01:03:25.080 -> 01:03:28.840] would have slipped ahead of him, then it would have been bad. And then when he actually made
[01:03:28.840 -> 01:03:32.720] his stop and come out behind Alonso, because they were goal hanging for seven laps, he
[01:03:32.720 -> 01:03:37.200] managed to dispatch of him almost immediately. And I think that was the key point to him,
[01:03:37.200 -> 01:03:41.640] allowing him, allowing him to use that tire offset. So I think it was the correct strategy.
[01:03:41.640 -> 01:03:46.640] Now, if it started up with Russell and if he started where he probably should have started,
[01:03:46.640 -> 01:03:49.080] then yes, it probably would have been a bad move.
[01:03:49.080 -> 01:03:51.560] But I think for where he was, because he gaffed quality,
[01:03:51.560 -> 01:03:53.520] it was a good move in my opinion.
[01:03:53.520 -> 01:03:55.840] Okay, but Chris, why not just put the mediums on
[01:03:55.840 -> 01:03:57.140] and go racing?
[01:03:57.140 -> 01:03:58.640] Go take on the McLarens.
[01:03:58.640 -> 01:04:01.880] Take on the McLarens, pass Albon, do the race.
[01:04:01.880 -> 01:04:04.160] Why flip-flop?
[01:04:04.160 -> 01:04:07.200] If the baseline is, if he'd have got away on the medium, he
[01:04:07.200 -> 01:04:11.840] doesn't get passed by Norris, necessarily. He's now fighting Piastri, and then yeah,
[01:04:11.840 -> 01:04:17.240] maybe a bit of a struggle behind Albon, but then tyre save there. Not start your whole
[01:04:17.240 -> 01:04:23.960] strategy waiting for both McLarens to get out of your way, and then fight forward. The
[01:04:23.960 -> 01:04:25.920] race was gone by the time he was on a
[01:04:25.920 -> 01:04:26.920] decent tyre.
[01:04:26.920 -> 01:04:32.120] Spanners, you sound like such a millennial right now because you're all about that instant
[01:04:32.120 -> 01:04:38.340] gratification and not seeing the fact that this strategy was all about the last third
[01:04:38.340 -> 01:04:46.080] of the race, right? I think, and I think the team realised this as well, which is why they went for this strategy,
[01:04:46.080 -> 01:04:53.040] that in a pure head-to-head, they were really, really going to struggle getting around the
[01:04:53.040 -> 01:04:58.200] McLarens and especially the Williams, because they know they've got one of the slowest cars
[01:04:58.200 -> 01:04:59.200] in a straight line.
[01:04:59.200 -> 01:05:00.200] Oh, hang on.
[01:05:00.200 -> 01:05:01.200] Okay, counter.
[01:05:01.200 -> 01:05:02.200] Immediate counter.
[01:05:02.200 -> 01:05:03.840] Quickly on that, before you move on to another point, because you're all making lots of points
[01:05:03.840 -> 01:05:04.840] at once.
[01:05:04.840 -> 01:05:05.400] It's the same point.
[01:05:05.400 -> 01:05:06.000] Okay, so, no, hang on.
[01:05:06.000 -> 01:05:10.300] So, Hamilton on the hards was right up behind Norris.
[01:05:10.300 -> 01:05:13.500] Didn't have that final thing to get past in Turn 1,
[01:05:13.500 -> 01:05:18.700] but he spent most of that first stint well within DRS, 0.5, 0.6 seconds.
[01:05:18.700 -> 01:05:21.400] Are you really telling me on a step softer tyre,
[01:05:21.400 -> 01:05:23.900] he wouldn't have had a chance of overtaking the McLarens?
[01:05:23.900 -> 01:05:25.120] Of overtaking Piastri,
[01:05:25.120 -> 01:05:29.440] because he might not have had to overtake Norris. Maybe, I mean, the team clearly thought that they
[01:05:29.440 -> 01:05:35.760] couldn't, and when he had the fresher, the softer tyre as well towards the end of the race, it made
[01:05:35.760 -> 01:05:40.720] his job significantly easier, and they ended up getting to the place where they were going to end
[01:05:40.720 -> 01:05:47.180] up anyway. So it was all about looking at that last third of the race where they can utilise the better
[01:05:47.180 -> 01:05:48.180] tyres.
[01:05:48.180 -> 01:05:50.420] So I'm just going to put it to you this way.
[01:05:50.420 -> 01:05:53.420] You fancy the odd wager, do you not, Spanners?
[01:05:53.420 -> 01:05:56.020] I've been known to have a flutter.
[01:05:56.020 -> 01:05:58.260] Which would you bet on?
[01:05:58.260 -> 01:06:08.320] Hamilton on medium tyres, passing Norris and Albon at the end of the race, or Hamilton on the same tire at the start,
[01:06:08.320 -> 01:06:14.720] passing Norris, Piastri, and Albon. Because if he doesn't do that, his medium tire strategy is
[01:06:14.720 -> 01:06:21.360] simply not going to work. And I just wager that my personal bet is that the Mercedes strategist
[01:06:21.360 -> 01:06:29.120] took a look at who was starting in front of him and said, it's just not going to be feasible. And I'll back that up quickly with evidence of,
[01:06:29.120 -> 01:06:32.080] would you agree that Perez was faster than Russell in this race?
[01:06:32.080 -> 01:06:32.320] Sure.
[01:06:32.880 -> 01:06:37.040] How many laps did it take Perez to pass Russell on the same tire?
[01:06:37.920 -> 01:06:39.360] Okay, okay. But-
[01:06:39.360 -> 01:06:40.800] 16, that's how many.
[01:06:40.800 -> 01:06:44.800] There's another factor there, which is, I was going to bring this up in the Red Bull section.
[01:06:50.160 -> 01:06:55.680] Kyle, I'll go to Kyle for this. Kyle, you know I'm a Perez fan. He is not the last of the late breakers and he's not the best aggressive overtaker. No, but since he's been
[01:06:55.680 -> 01:07:01.520] in Red Bull, he has been a bit dive-bomby. All I'm saying is... Up the inside and cry victim
[01:07:01.520 -> 01:07:08.240] nutter style. He has done a few of those. Okay, but I will say, all I'll say is the defense, well Perez couldn't do it, therefore
[01:07:08.240 -> 01:07:12.080] Hamilton couldn't. I won't accept that. I think Hamilton's a better overtaker. I think
[01:07:12.080 -> 01:07:15.680] Hamilton's better on the brakes. That would be my small counter to that, Matt.
[01:07:16.320 -> 01:07:26.840] But look, it's a gamble either way, but surely back yourself to get through three cars that have slower lap times than you and
[01:07:26.840 -> 01:07:32.560] then start your race. The gamble they took was, let's gamble that we sit behind them
[01:07:32.560 -> 01:07:36.620] and then we'll eventually get them towards the end of the race. So worst case scenario,
[01:07:36.620 -> 01:07:42.400] they don't get them on the mediums. But are you saying that Mercedes don't think they've
[01:07:42.400 -> 01:07:49.600] got better tyre wear than the McLarens and the Williams? Are you telling me that Mercedes didn't think that they could wait for their
[01:07:49.600 -> 01:07:54.480] rears to go off and then, you know, go past? Are you saying that Mercedes don't think that
[01:07:54.480 -> 01:08:01.120] they could undercut at some point and overtake on a fast outlap or two? That shows no confidence
[01:08:01.120 -> 01:08:05.840] whatsoever. That's all. And this is what I'm saying. Going for this hard
[01:08:05.840 -> 01:08:12.880] tactic shows a team that isn't attacking. That's not an attacking strategy, Kyle. At least, at least
[01:08:12.880 -> 01:08:19.440] validate my insane rantings a little. Well, I think that is exactly how they feel. They are
[01:08:19.440 -> 01:08:25.040] not very confident because they have this compromised bit of a hodgepodge of a car.
[01:08:25.200 -> 01:08:26.840] They know that they're going to struggle.
[01:08:26.840 -> 01:08:31.140] They've essentially written off the rest of this year, um, for like for this car.
[01:08:31.140 -> 01:08:33.000] And they knew this is going to be a week round for them.
[01:08:33.000 -> 01:08:36.320] So probably sitting in the team brief before the race started, they'll,
[01:08:36.640 -> 01:08:40.000] they're going to give Hamilton and, you know, Hamilton and George would have
[01:08:40.000 -> 01:08:42.760] been sitting there with all the engineers going through the strategy options.
[01:08:43.000 -> 01:08:46.920] And Hamilton probably would have agreed with this because I'm pretty sure he would have felt that if
[01:08:46.920 -> 01:08:52.240] I'm on status quo on the same tires, I don't have the car underneath me to be able to affect
[01:08:52.240 -> 01:08:55.920] a pass and to be able to get past them. So that's why I genuinely believe that their
[01:08:55.920 -> 01:09:00.480] confidence is low. This is not the Mercurial, the amazing Mercedes of before. This is a
[01:09:00.480 -> 01:09:10.600] very compromised Mercedes car and I think they are treating it as such. To be fair, Monza wasn't ever going to be their track in these circumstances with the
[01:09:10.600 -> 01:09:16.400] car they have. Paddy says, the thing is, for Perez, no one would get out of his way, so
[01:09:16.400 -> 01:09:20.260] how is he supposed to get by? Yeah, he did have that bit of a rant, like, they're not
[01:09:20.260 -> 01:09:27.440] giving me any room. Yes, it's called defending. It's called defending. Like, that's your job is to then get past them.
[01:09:27.640 -> 01:09:29.560] I don't think the Ferrari... That was a good little battle, though,
[01:09:29.760 -> 01:09:32.080] wasn't it, with the Ferraris and Perez, Chris?
[01:09:32.280 -> 01:09:37.320] And, yeah, Perez had a clear car advantage, but it was good scrap.
[01:09:37.520 -> 01:09:40.080] My favorite Perez moment was the,
[01:09:40.280 -> 01:09:43.000] I've locked up and gone right, oh, he pushed me off.
[01:09:43.200 -> 01:09:45.400] Love it. Classic racing driver.
[01:09:45.400 -> 01:09:51.000] I do like that he used all three of his off tracks in these various maneuvers and trying
[01:09:51.000 -> 01:09:56.180] to play the refs over the radio and that they just, they simply refused.
[01:09:56.180 -> 01:10:00.840] They refused to bite on any of his complaints about being shoved off track.
[01:10:00.840 -> 01:10:02.160] Speaking of being shoved off track.
[01:10:02.160 -> 01:10:03.160] Yeah.
[01:10:03.160 -> 01:10:08.000] Whose fault is it?
[01:10:11.000 -> 01:10:18.000] Okay, so on lap something something something, Lewis Hamilton and Piastri had two consecutive battles
[01:10:18.000 -> 01:10:21.000] at the chicane that we couldn't remember the name of,
[01:10:21.000 -> 01:10:23.000] but it's basically turned 3 and 4 after curve 8.
[01:10:23.000 -> 01:10:24.000] La Roja?
[01:10:24.000 -> 01:10:25.200] What? La Roja. Doesn't sound eight. D'Aleroja. What?
[01:10:26.000 -> 01:10:26.720] D'Aleroja. Doesn't sound right.
[01:10:28.240 -> 01:10:31.040] Let's call it corner three and corner four.
[01:10:31.040 -> 01:10:32.640] So it's actually four and five.
[01:10:32.640 -> 01:10:34.480] Is curva grande, is that counted?
[01:10:34.480 -> 01:10:35.440] That's turn three.
[01:10:35.440 -> 01:10:35.680] Is that?
[01:10:35.680 -> 01:10:36.800] Aside from that you got it.
[01:10:36.800 -> 01:10:38.560] How's that counted as a turn?
[01:10:39.120 -> 01:10:41.040] Because it's a turn.
[01:10:41.040 -> 01:10:42.800] It's a lean, it's a lean at most.
[01:10:42.800 -> 01:10:44.000] I do like curva grande.
[01:10:44.000 -> 01:10:45.540] But I believe it's a corner. I agree, I agree. It's a lean at most. I do like curva grande, but I believe it's a corner
[01:10:45.540 -> 01:10:52.040] I believe I agree. I agree. It's a very slight corner. So after the slight inconvenience of curva
[01:10:53.160 -> 01:10:55.160] minimum so they go down to
[01:10:55.520 -> 01:11:00.340] Turn four and five now. So the first one was piastri
[01:11:00.340 -> 01:11:05.080] Just just ran Hamilton wide Kyle. So this was almost like a very scaled down version
[01:11:05.080 -> 01:11:08.640] of Brazil 2021, where Piastri is defending
[01:11:08.640 -> 01:11:10.280] on the inside successfully,
[01:11:10.280 -> 01:11:11.700] but then he doesn't make the corner.
[01:11:11.700 -> 01:11:13.000] Why wasn't that a penalty?
[01:11:13.920 -> 01:11:17.100] Yeah, well, we've seen a bit of this and yeah,
[01:11:17.100 -> 01:11:19.660] well, we've seen a bit of a dangerous precedent set
[01:11:19.660 -> 01:11:23.260] in 2021 in Brazil, ironically in term four as well.
[01:11:24.300 -> 01:11:27.760] So yeah, I think they, and after 2021,
[01:11:27.760 -> 01:11:29.640] no one really knew what was right and wrong anymore.
[01:11:29.640 -> 01:11:32.400] And we have these quite odd sort of racing rules now
[01:11:32.400 -> 01:11:35.080] that if you are not ahead at the apex,
[01:11:35.080 -> 01:11:38.960] you're essentially not worthy of any room whatsoever,
[01:11:38.960 -> 01:11:41.740] which I still thoroughly disagree with,
[01:11:41.740 -> 01:11:42.880] but it is what it is.
[01:11:42.880 -> 01:11:51.200] And the FIA and the governing body have backed themselves into a corner over this. So yeah, they both got in super, super hot, but neither of them
[01:11:51.200 -> 01:11:57.360] won or lost as a result, because I don't think Hamilton was as far enough alongside in, you know,
[01:11:57.360 -> 01:12:02.080] by the wording of the rules to warrant space. So I think they just let that one slip. Yeah,
[01:12:02.080 -> 01:12:05.320] but that's gonna make Hamilton slightly a bit peeved.
[01:12:05.320 -> 01:12:06.880] If I was Hamilton, I'd be a little bit annoyed.
[01:12:06.880 -> 01:12:08.600] You've just essentially been shoved off.
[01:12:08.600 -> 01:12:12.160] And then they come to their second little kerfuffle where.
[01:12:12.400 -> 01:12:14.320] Yeah. And fair play to Hamilton.
[01:12:14.320 -> 01:12:15.600] He owned it. He owned it.
[01:12:15.600 -> 01:12:16.760] He took it on the chin. He owned it.
[01:12:16.760 -> 01:12:22.000] And massive kudos to Piastri for how mature he was after the race.
[01:12:22.000 -> 01:12:26.080] He spoke like he's been in Grand Prix racing for multiple decades
[01:12:26.080 -> 01:12:30.000] and it was like he apologized, he said it was his fault, can't really ask for more than that,
[01:12:30.000 -> 01:12:36.080] it is what it is. What a very wise head he has on his shoulders. Yeah, the first one where
[01:12:36.640 -> 01:12:42.960] Piastri just skates across the runoff area himself and fails to lose a place, which is
[01:12:52.320 -> 01:12:55.520] and fails to lose a place which is kind of the guilty part of it. It's really awkward because you're constantly having to look at who was slightly ahead at this point, who was slightly
[01:12:55.520 -> 01:12:59.760] ahead when they got to this bit of the corner in the breaking zone and all this and you know a lot
[01:12:59.760 -> 01:13:05.760] of the time they tend to just let sleeping dogs lie and forget about it. But then I think I remember we
[01:13:05.760 -> 01:13:11.440] were talking about this in Suzuka last year, weren't we? With Leclerc and Perez on the last
[01:13:11.440 -> 01:13:21.440] lap and complaining about that, you know, not being handled correctly either. So I can see why they
[01:13:21.440 -> 01:13:26.480] forgive it. I mean, it's quite hard to definitively say you've done something
[01:13:26.480 -> 01:13:31.760] wrong in that moment, even though we all kind of are sitting there thinking, well, it's not great.
[01:13:32.480 -> 01:13:37.200] But definitely the second one, 100% Louis' fault. Really complicated moment.
[01:13:37.200 -> 01:13:37.840] So let's go to that.
[01:13:37.840 -> 01:13:41.680] The move was done and it was so unnecessary, but he did hold his hand up.
[01:13:41.680 -> 01:13:50.100] Let's go to that second one. So obviously, you come around Curva Grande and then people naturally take their line on the right hand side. Now,
[01:13:50.100 -> 01:13:55.560] my personal view is that you should always have room on the inside. And there's lots
[01:13:55.560 -> 01:14:01.320] of times during F1 where we've discussed rules where there's specific reference to how much
[01:14:01.320 -> 01:14:05.840] room you should be left on the outside of a braking zone. So a car,
[01:14:05.840 -> 01:14:10.800] for example, a defending car on a straight, and this one was one of the rare moments of
[01:14:10.800 -> 01:14:15.840] clarity we've had with rules, so you can defend the inside, so you can move to the inside to defend,
[01:14:15.840 -> 01:14:21.920] and then you can go back out to resume your racing line so long as you leave a car's width on the
[01:14:21.920 -> 01:14:26.160] outside for the attacking car. So once you've made that move to the inside, that's your one move.
[01:14:26.720 -> 01:14:31.280] You are then allowed to resume the racing line, but if you don't leave a car's width,
[01:14:31.280 -> 01:14:33.680] that's judged as two moves.
[01:14:33.680 -> 01:14:36.560] So then that's weaving and that's blocking.
[01:14:36.560 -> 01:14:41.440] So here, I think it's clear, if Lewis Hamilton is moving to the outside,
[01:14:42.160 -> 01:14:47.000] it feels like you definitely have to leave a car's width, and he didn't do that.
[01:14:47.000 -> 01:14:50.500] So that's perfectly fine. To me, that's a penalty.
[01:14:50.500 -> 01:15:00.000] The two things, Matt, that give us a little bit of pause to think is that his car position was the same as Leclerc in 2019,
[01:15:00.000 -> 01:15:09.360] and that was a black and white flag, and we were very unhappy about that at the time. And then the other point that you've made so very well in the past is, what constitutes a car's width?
[01:15:09.360 -> 01:15:13.920] Is it a car's width to the line? Is it a car's width of usable runoff area?
[01:15:14.480 -> 01:15:19.680] Well, in this case, I'm going to argue that Lewis absolutely left a car's width,
[01:15:19.680 -> 01:15:26.800] but the problem was he didn't leave a car plus a wheel's width of room for Oscar to exist in.
[01:15:26.800 -> 01:15:32.560] And I think the reason that they drew the line where they did is because unlike many tracks,
[01:15:33.200 -> 01:15:37.920] the other side of where Oscar's right hand tires were was grass.
[01:15:37.920 -> 01:15:38.480] Were grass, yeah.
[01:15:38.480 -> 01:15:44.080] Which is, and so he was, there was no room left for Oscar to give at that point.
[01:15:44.080 -> 01:15:50.880] And because of the overlap, there was no way for him to back out of it either.
[01:15:50.880 -> 01:15:55.660] The wheels were overlapped and it was, the only way that would have worked is if Oscar
[01:15:55.660 -> 01:16:02.440] could perfectly have predicted Lewis's braking point and braked absolutely in synchronicity
[01:16:02.440 -> 01:16:03.560] with him.
[01:16:03.560 -> 01:16:05.600] And that's just not really a thing that's ever going to
[01:16:05.600 -> 01:16:10.000] happen in two different cars. Chris, then Kyle. Ultimately, he's moved into the space that
[01:16:10.000 -> 01:16:13.840] Piastri is in. So if we were going to borrow Bradley Philpott's lane system, for example,
[01:16:13.840 -> 01:16:17.600] he's moved into Piastri's lane. You can't move into a place where a car already exists.
[01:16:17.600 -> 01:16:26.440] Yeah. But the thing as well is you brought up 2019, Leclerc did the same thing again to Perez today, and I think the reason
[01:16:26.440 -> 01:16:28.200] that never even got looked at-
[01:16:28.200 -> 01:16:30.480] AOEBUKER Because Monza, Monza, Monza, Monza.
[01:16:30.480 -> 01:16:35.720] ALICE Well, let's also consider the fact that Perez
[01:16:35.720 -> 01:16:40.080] did even use the runoff, or he gathered it up pretty quickly.
[01:16:40.080 -> 01:16:43.560] The difference in the Piastri incident is Piastri was left with a broken front wing,
[01:16:43.560 -> 01:16:49.000] and I think this is another case of us looking at the result of an incident rather than the
[01:16:49.000 -> 01:16:50.000] crime itself.
[01:16:50.000 -> 01:16:51.000] Kyle.
[01:16:51.000 -> 01:16:53.800] That's exactly what I was just about to say.
[01:16:53.800 -> 01:16:58.480] I think if Piastri would have got away without any damage, then I don't think it would have
[01:16:58.480 -> 01:16:59.480] been a penalty.
[01:16:59.480 -> 01:17:05.400] So it shouldn't be this way, but they definitely do take the outcome into consideration. Look
[01:17:05.400 -> 01:17:11.240] at Silverstone 21. There was got a 10 second penalty, which is very rare. You don't really
[01:17:11.240 -> 01:17:15.840] see them usually just get five second penalties for this. And as you said, Leclerc did exactly
[01:17:15.840 -> 01:17:21.760] the same thing as he did in 2019 to Perez. There was a tiny bit of contact. And yeah,
[01:17:21.760 -> 01:17:27.360] so if he hadn't broken pastries front wing, I think it would have been okay.
[01:17:27.360 -> 01:17:34.360] In Lewis's defense, Piastri did have a tiny bit of room left on the outside. But yeah,
[01:17:34.360 -> 01:17:37.320] Lewis, he held his hands up and you know, as it's cornering, you've driven it in the
[01:17:37.320 -> 01:17:40.440] sim, you've gone there and you're looking into the corner breaking zone and he's just
[01:17:40.440 -> 01:17:44.840] drifted over and not realized he's done it. A bit clumsy, bit like Spahr last year, a
[01:17:44.840 -> 01:17:47.540] bit of a clumsy, clumsy move from Lewis there.
[01:17:47.540 -> 01:17:51.180] So just to set precedent for the future,
[01:17:51.180 -> 01:17:55.340] I don't think Piastri having room to move to the outside
[01:17:55.340 -> 01:17:58.100] vindicates Hamilton in any way, shape or form,
[01:17:58.100 -> 01:18:00.620] because Piastri can pick his line on the outside.
[01:18:00.620 -> 01:18:02.940] So Piastri could have had half a car's width
[01:18:02.940 -> 01:18:03.860] to the right-hand side.
[01:18:03.860 -> 01:18:07.000] If Lewis moves into him, that's Lewis's fault. Like Piastri doesn have had half a car's width to the right-hand side. If Lewis moves into him, that's Lewis' fault.
[01:18:07.000 -> 01:18:13.000] Piastri doesn't have to go, oh, Hamilton's coming over, I'd best use every single available inch to me.
[01:18:13.000 -> 01:18:20.000] He doesn't have to do that. So you're definitely trying to go, well, Piastri should have moved more to the right.
[01:18:20.000 -> 01:18:29.240] So in future, if we see an incident where there's a car defending and just they stay in the middle of the track so that the inside car can't move to the outside.
[01:18:29.360 -> 01:18:32.000] And this is something, Karl, we've talked about in our iRacing series.
[01:18:32.080 -> 01:18:36.160] I always test it out in practice and I've done this to you in go-karting as well.
[01:18:36.320 -> 01:18:42.160] You move to the outside of one corner and then, let's say in a chicane, and then you're expected to move out to the other side.
[01:18:42.160 -> 01:18:45.680] And I just hold my ground in the middle of the track and let the other car hit me,
[01:18:45.680 -> 01:18:48.160] which is fine in karts and sim racing,
[01:18:48.160 -> 01:18:50.160] wouldn't want to do it in an F1 car,
[01:18:50.160 -> 01:18:51.800] but that car in the middle of the road
[01:18:51.800 -> 01:18:54.400] is entitled to hold their line.
[01:18:54.400 -> 01:18:57.880] Absolutely, they are dictating what's going to happen.
[01:18:57.880 -> 01:18:59.600] I use this tactic myself a lot,
[01:18:59.600 -> 01:19:00.720] plant myself in the middle of the road,
[01:19:00.720 -> 01:19:02.480] let them choose and then pin them
[01:19:02.480 -> 01:19:08.880] in the most awkward position that you possibly can. I mean, all of this is happening at 200 miles an hour for these guys. It's a big
[01:19:08.880 -> 01:19:14.560] bit of a fear factor. So yeah, I think it's slam dunk Lewis's fault. And the penalty was just in
[01:19:14.560 -> 01:19:19.840] my opinion. Chris? Well, we're really looking forward to seeing the comments of the one time
[01:19:19.840 -> 01:19:26.720] viewers who think we're an anti Hamilton show now. That happens, it does happen. Sorry, Matt, I know you were trying to get in there.
[01:19:26.720 -> 01:19:33.120] Well no, I just think to the larger point of car positioning, one of my favourite moments,
[01:19:33.120 -> 01:19:37.560] and this is along the lines of what Kyle was already addressing, is we saw a lot of defending
[01:19:37.560 -> 01:19:39.560] into turn one.
[01:19:39.560 -> 01:19:44.440] People on the inside making the attacking car go outside, and then they would come back,
[01:19:44.440 -> 01:19:47.240] as Kyle mentioned, and take the racing line.
[01:19:47.240 -> 01:19:51.400] But I think there was one time, and Perez got on the radio and howled about it, that
[01:19:51.400 -> 01:19:58.320] signs essentially had him moved a little further over than the absolute most inside line, and
[01:19:58.320 -> 01:20:02.840] just simply waited longer to brake before he turned into turn one.
[01:20:02.840 -> 01:20:03.840] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:20:03.840 -> 01:20:04.840] Yeah, it's violent.
[01:20:04.840 -> 01:20:08.160] And made Perez have to wait even longer and go off track.
[01:20:08.160 -> 01:20:10.560] And he got on the radio and was very furious about it.
[01:20:10.560 -> 01:20:14.900] But there's nothing wrong with that if you've put yourself in that position and the other
[01:20:14.900 -> 01:20:17.480] driver has chosen to go outside of you.
[01:20:17.480 -> 01:20:21.680] They have to wait for you to turn into that corner.
[01:20:21.680 -> 01:20:24.840] It's Austria 2015 all over again, isn't it?
[01:20:24.840 -> 01:20:26.720] Rosberg versus Hamilton. Yes,
[01:20:26.720 -> 01:20:31.680] it's frustrating if there's a block pass but I think all the way to the point where there is
[01:20:31.680 -> 01:20:36.320] literally no room for you to go to the outside you have to wait and this is the same Silverstone 2021
[01:20:36.320 -> 01:20:42.400] and it's the same whether it's Hamilton, Leclerc or whether it's Latifi. Let's get this one thing
[01:20:42.400 -> 01:20:46.320] clear if you're listening. You are not obliged as the inside car
[01:20:46.320 -> 01:20:51.760] to take the apex. You're not obliged as the outside car to be all the way to the outside.
[01:20:51.760 -> 01:21:11.200] It's a little bit more nuanced than the way, I think it's actually a
[01:21:11.200 -> 01:21:15.920] good thing for the sport that Verstappen is dominating. And I'm just appreciating those
[01:21:15.920 -> 01:21:22.600] records and that, of course, is the line being pushed by the FIA and accredited media, not
[01:21:22.600 -> 01:21:27.520] all, but dozens of them, all posting simultaneous articles
[01:21:27.520 -> 01:21:31.800] off the cuff about how actually it's not boring at all and it's not a sign of anything
[01:21:31.800 -> 01:21:36.320] wrong with F1, it's actually a good thing and you're witnessing history in the making.
[01:21:36.320 -> 01:21:37.320] Well, do you know what?
[01:21:37.320 -> 01:21:39.600] There's a medium point to that.
[01:21:39.600 -> 01:21:42.680] We are absolutely witnessing excellence.
[01:21:42.680 -> 01:21:45.760] Whilst I don't put any credence in the 10 in a row
[01:21:53.040 -> 01:22:00.400] stats, if they had somehow had a second place or a DNF 5 races ago, I think that this would still be an incredible, incredible run. So we're sort of in a situation in a like a family game of Monopoly
[01:22:00.400 -> 01:22:08.000] where somebody has done so well, they own all the reds, all the purples and all the greens,
[01:22:08.000 -> 01:22:15.000] and everyone knows they're going to win, yet the over-eager 13-year-old is still rubbing their hands with glee
[01:22:15.000 -> 01:22:18.000] when you land on Mayfair, and they want to quit.
[01:22:18.000 -> 01:22:23.000] I can't afford the rent. Yes, you can. You can sell me the train stations.
[01:22:23.000 -> 01:22:27.000] All right? Oh, 800 for the train stations?
[01:22:27.000 -> 01:22:28.000] No, 200.
[01:22:28.000 -> 01:22:31.000] That's the point of the game that we're at.
[01:22:31.000 -> 01:22:38.000] Everyone knows it's over, but you still have to roll the dice for another 10 turns.
[01:22:38.000 -> 01:22:39.000] Enjoy that midfield battle.
[01:22:39.000 -> 01:22:48.560] If the rest of the season is like the Monza Grand Prix. That will ease the pain, predictability of
[01:22:48.560 -> 01:22:53.760] one team being ahead. But you know, it's right. Look, Matt, this is Sporting Excellence. This
[01:22:53.760 -> 01:23:01.600] is Michael Jordan. This is Michael Schumacher. This is Kevin Pedersen. This is... Who's the
[01:23:01.600 -> 01:23:07.080] tennis players? I don't really keep up with it. Sam Pras, this is Sam Pras, this is Agassi.
[01:23:07.080 -> 01:23:10.980] We do have to appreciate sporting excellence, but that doesn't mean that we can't also
[01:23:10.980 -> 01:23:15.900] acknowledge that it's not the best, most fun thing in the world to watch.
[01:23:15.900 -> 01:23:17.100] It can be very boring.
[01:23:17.100 -> 01:23:22.780] The Ferrari battle was far more exciting to watch today than Max winning his 10th in a
[01:23:22.780 -> 01:23:23.780] row.
[01:23:23.780 -> 01:23:29.920] But as a side note to that, it's very easy to just sort of write that off as a look at
[01:23:29.920 -> 01:23:35.060] the car and then, you know, I mean, look at look, look at Leclerc fighting signs versus
[01:23:35.060 -> 01:23:37.400] Perez fighting for Stappen.
[01:23:37.400 -> 01:23:41.880] And there's a reason why we see Max winning 10 in a row, which I think is sort of the
[01:23:41.880 -> 01:23:43.080] way Toto went with it.
[01:23:43.080 -> 01:23:48.400] I disagree because if you look into it, don't forget, they had an issue today that
[01:23:48.400 -> 01:23:51.880] might have ended Max's race before he got to the finish line.
[01:23:52.240 -> 01:23:56.720] Don't forget how many of those wins that he had in a row came in wildly
[01:23:56.720 -> 01:23:59.880] mixed conditions and he won anyway.
[01:24:00.240 -> 01:24:04.000] So there've been eight mixed condition races, haven't there?
[01:24:04.280 -> 01:24:05.600] There's been rain every week.
[01:24:05.600 -> 01:24:08.320] Oh, did the other cars not have those mixed conditions?
[01:24:08.320 -> 01:24:14.800] I'm just saying mixed conditions reduces the advantage of power and downforce pretty significantly,
[01:24:14.800 -> 01:24:19.440] which is why you see occasionally the minnows winning in those conditions.
[01:24:19.440 -> 01:24:24.880] Like Hungary, for example, or Monza when we had the wild safety car with Gasly.
[01:24:26.160 -> 01:24:31.520] Hungary, for example, or Monza when we had the wild safety car with Gasly. But I just put it out there, it's more of an achievement than it seems because Max hasn't
[01:24:31.520 -> 01:24:37.080] had the same kind of competition that we've seen happening at Ferrari.
[01:24:37.080 -> 01:24:42.640] But that makes it no less an achievement and especially no less an engineering achievement.
[01:24:42.640 -> 01:24:46.600] And that's what I want to drive home is that it's not just Max here.
[01:24:46.600 -> 01:24:48.200] It's the whole team.
[01:24:48.200 -> 01:24:52.920] They have done something incredibly special and as boring as it is for them to do that
[01:24:52.920 -> 01:24:57.880] special thing, we should still recognize and honor that achievement.
[01:24:57.880 -> 01:24:58.880] I agree.
[01:24:58.880 -> 01:25:02.800] I think it's pretty amazing what they're doing.
[01:25:02.800 -> 01:25:06.260] And if anything, Zand Fort last weekend was the chart
[01:25:06.260 -> 01:25:10.980] was the time for him to drop the ball. It threw everything at him that could have potentially
[01:25:10.980 -> 01:25:15.720] thrown at him to not win and he still kept calm and look like he wants to the win when
[01:25:15.720 -> 01:25:20.580] it was really, really challenging. Now it's got to the point now with me that yes, it's
[01:25:20.580 -> 01:25:26.800] not great to see dominance, you want to see a good fight at the front, but for me, it's kind of gone over the edge
[01:25:26.800 -> 01:25:30.960] now and I want them to go through and win the rest of the races because I don't think
[01:25:30.960 -> 01:25:32.720] we're going to see this ever again, really.
[01:25:32.720 -> 01:25:34.240] So I was like, they've come so far.
[01:25:34.240 -> 01:25:37.840] I want them to now finish the job and just go through and just dominate the entire
[01:25:37.840 -> 01:25:42.000] season, because I don't think we'll ever possibly see a chance for somebody to do
[01:25:42.000 -> 01:25:51.760] that again, because I'm pretty sure next year when Mercedes start afresh, Ferrari maybe stop flying so much. Yeah, yeah, a McLaren on trajectory that
[01:25:51.760 -> 01:25:56.080] I don't think Red Bull are going to be okay in a position to be that dominant next year. So I want
[01:25:56.080 -> 01:26:01.680] them to get the job done and dominate the rest of the season. Somehow there are still eight races
[01:26:01.680 -> 01:26:07.920] left in this season. I cannot believe it. But one thing I kind of want to do
[01:26:07.920 -> 01:26:16.160] at the end of the season is do a season review that acts as if Max Verstappen didn't exist.
[01:26:16.160 -> 01:26:16.720] Oh, 100%. We can do that.
[01:26:16.720 -> 01:26:21.760] And so we'll look at it as if, you know, Red Bull are running one car and we'll just look at it.
[01:26:21.760 -> 01:26:29.360] Yeah, and it's not on pure points either. You'd have to go race by race and just remove their influence correctly move the grid positions out. Okay cool
[01:26:29.360 -> 01:26:34.400] cool do it where we explain each race as if Max Verstappen wasn't there. Okay cool we can absolutely
[01:26:34.400 -> 01:26:40.400] do that but first let's give out some awards let's start off all positive and that with the Good Thing Award.
[01:26:43.920 -> 01:26:45.840] All right let's look at our panel.
[01:26:45.840 -> 01:26:48.920] You need to follow all of these guys on our social media.
[01:26:48.920 -> 01:26:50.280] Here's Chris.
[01:26:50.280 -> 01:26:51.360] Hey.
[01:26:51.360 -> 01:26:56.240] Yes, he startles easily, but he returns with momentum.
[01:26:56.240 -> 01:26:58.360] He is at ChrisOnRacing on Twitter.
[01:26:58.360 -> 01:27:00.440] You should definitely go and follow him there.
[01:27:00.440 -> 01:27:03.600] So because I know this is going to be the last show I'll
[01:27:03.600 -> 01:27:06.080] do for a few weeks.
[01:27:06.080 -> 01:27:11.200] I have big news coming in the next couple of weeks.
[01:27:11.200 -> 01:27:12.200] Okay, is it now?
[01:27:12.200 -> 01:27:13.760] If it's not now, stop talking about it.
[01:27:13.760 -> 01:27:15.320] No, but I just want to tease it.
[01:27:15.320 -> 01:27:16.320] No, there's no tease.
[01:27:16.320 -> 01:27:19.000] And make sure you guys are following Chris on racing.
[01:27:19.000 -> 01:27:20.640] So I'm very excited.
[01:27:20.640 -> 01:27:22.200] What's the good thing award, Chris?
[01:27:22.200 -> 01:27:27.120] Oh, for me is Carlos Sainz, 100%. It might be the easy picking and, you know, I'll go
[01:27:27.120 -> 01:27:31.680] first and just get him out of the way because he provided 99% of the entertainment in that
[01:27:31.680 -> 01:27:32.680] race.
[01:27:32.680 -> 01:27:33.680] Yeah, I agree.
[01:27:33.680 -> 01:27:39.080] You know, even if he didn't, you know, give maybe Leclerc a chance to go off to second
[01:27:39.080 -> 01:27:44.560] place or something, or, you know, he stretched the definition of defending rules in this
[01:27:44.560 -> 01:27:45.440] race, but goddamn,
[01:27:45.440 -> 01:27:46.640] it was good TV.
[01:27:46.640 -> 01:27:52.640] Okay, excellent. And does Carlos Sainz's hair look better at Monza? Like, somehow, every
[01:27:52.640 -> 01:27:57.840] time we get to Monza, there's always a shot of his magnificent hair. And speaking of which,
[01:27:57.840 -> 01:28:06.320] I mean, you've often been called the motorsport Jesus, Kyle, because of your flowing locks, your wisdom and that's one
[01:28:06.320 -> 01:28:13.200] heck of a beard as well. Okay, at KylePowerF1 on Twitter, yeah, and we'll also list your home
[01:28:13.200 -> 01:28:17.760] address because follow Kyle around, his antics are wild, we can't share them here. Who was your
[01:28:17.760 -> 01:28:26.480] Good Thing Award for the weekend? Well, I was going to go for the obvious one, which I'm not going to say because I'm pretty
[01:28:26.480 -> 01:28:30.780] sure someone else will choose it of what happened on Saturday. But my good thing at a weekend
[01:28:30.780 -> 01:28:36.660] was the DRS acting and being as effective as it always was planned to be. It's one of
[01:28:36.660 -> 01:28:40.560] the first times we've ever seen it actually operate as it should do. So that's my good
[01:28:40.560 -> 01:28:41.560] thing of the weekend.
[01:28:41.560 -> 01:28:50.880] Yeah. And you know what? The F1 has never been more active in being responsive to what actually makes good racing and things that they can change. And it's like,
[01:28:50.880 -> 01:28:54.480] in the past, I think they would have just gone, you know, paid it lip service, whereas now they
[01:28:54.480 -> 01:29:00.160] are actively looking to tweak these things. So like being more adaptable on the DRS zones,
[01:29:00.160 -> 01:29:09.480] as you've said, but also it feels like they're listening with the tires as well. It looks like they're trying to pick, you know, not ultra conservative tire sets and
[01:29:09.480 -> 01:29:14.680] they're being less scared to pick, you know, the softer sets as well. So that's good. Matt,
[01:29:14.680 -> 01:29:22.940] two rumpets. What gets your good thing award? Well, you know, I think Kyle is possibly referencing
[01:29:22.940 -> 01:29:26.160] the alternative tire allotment that meant we had
[01:29:26.160 -> 01:29:30.640] softer compounds this weekend, which made it interesting. We saw two stop from some teams
[01:29:30.640 -> 01:29:35.200] and one stop from the other. It was all fun. But I'm really I'm just going to go back to
[01:29:36.000 -> 01:29:48.040] I'm going to go back to Alex Alban and Williams. I mean, they showed up and it's just hard to overstate getting that car with it's not great tire
[01:29:48.040 -> 01:29:55.560] management to do 38 acceptable laps and keep the McLaren's behind you is just I think
[01:29:55.560 -> 01:30:00.360] it's a really impressive achievement for Alex. And so I just I kind of want to put
[01:30:00.360 -> 01:30:05.280] it out there that Williams are starting to impress me a little bit. And so I'm going to give
[01:30:05.280 -> 01:30:10.400] them my good thing award while acknowledging there were loads of other good things this weekend.
[01:30:10.400 -> 01:30:17.520] I'm going to go for a rookie fest for my good things. So firstly, Lawson, two nil, two nil,
[01:30:17.520 -> 01:30:22.640] two New Zealand. So obviously Snowden, desperately unlucky pre-race. He was unlucky in the last race
[01:30:22.640 -> 01:30:25.120] as well, but Lawson has basically
[01:30:25.120 -> 01:30:30.480] flown under the radar, which is good. You know, it's good, isn't it, Kyle? Because we've said
[01:30:30.480 -> 01:30:35.280] with a lot of the rookies, like, stop appearing on our screens. Like, I need to not hear from
[01:30:35.280 -> 01:30:40.320] Sargent for a couple of races. Okay, so this race ticks that, but Lawson didn't hear about him this
[01:30:40.320 -> 01:30:46.320] race, and that's good. Yeah, that's also good good and he also did an amazing job. I just,
[01:30:46.320 -> 01:30:50.320] you just suddenly jogged my memory. We haven't really spoken about Liam Lawson and he did a
[01:30:50.320 -> 01:30:56.480] two-stop strategy as well which is rare for Monza and was 11th and he actually sounded gutted to not
[01:30:56.480 -> 01:31:04.000] get points at the end. Like genuinely gutted. P11, P11. Great job. Yeah. Yeah P11 is that car's best
[01:31:04.000 -> 01:31:05.000] finish of the year.
[01:31:05.000 -> 01:31:06.000] Is it?
[01:31:06.000 -> 01:31:07.000] Yeah.
[01:31:07.000 -> 01:31:10.000] So better than anything De Vries did, better than anything Ricciardo did.
[01:31:10.000 -> 01:31:12.000] Whoa, yeah, but Sunoda's finished P11 a couple of times.
[01:31:12.000 -> 01:31:14.000] No, no, but as in that car.
[01:31:14.000 -> 01:31:18.000] Oh, I see. Okay, so that entry. There you go. That's the phrase, that entry.
[01:31:18.000 -> 01:31:19.000] Okay, that's good.
[01:31:19.000 -> 01:31:24.000] And if we're being kind, he was also only a tenth and a half off Sunoda in qualifying.
[01:31:24.000 -> 01:31:28.760] Which is, again, very, very good. And then the other rookie is Piastri. My goodness.
[01:31:28.760 -> 01:31:35.320] So Piastri, he has got a hell of a benchmark in F1. So from a reputation point of view,
[01:31:35.320 -> 01:31:40.800] if you go and beat Norris, which he sort of did over the course of the weekend by getting
[01:31:40.800 -> 01:31:46.760] mugged by Hamilton, that is a notch in his bedpost, if you like. A snick
[01:31:46.760 -> 01:31:48.960] on the tree. I don't know what the kids say now.
[01:31:48.960 -> 01:31:54.520] I'll tell you what about that, those two as well. Obviously we saw the first flashpoint
[01:31:54.520 -> 01:31:59.160] maybe where they had a contact. Oh yeah! I forgot about that! Yeah, Norris was quite
[01:31:59.160 -> 01:32:02.840] aggressive on the turn in, into turn one. And it's all because they brought Norris in
[01:32:02.840 -> 01:32:08.680] first even though he was behind. Oh yeah! And I would be a bit miffed about that. Good point. This is not the first time
[01:32:08.680 -> 01:32:15.160] either. This is not the first time. Kyle. Yeah, it's the same. Got Echo in here. Yeah.
[01:32:15.160 -> 01:32:19.640] But I'm looking forward to seeing how that unfolds. I don't blame the team for prioritizing
[01:32:19.640 -> 01:32:30.560] Norris at the moment, but it is close, isn't it? It is getting close and I just I really wonder how Norris will react to sustained pressure from from Piastri and how Piastri plays it. Okay
[01:32:30.560 -> 01:32:39.680] now we get to be negative. Oh no you missed the apex. All right then we are armchair critics and
[01:32:39.680 -> 01:32:47.000] we know that we know we couldn't call a good strategy in real time or drive a car.
[01:32:47.000 -> 01:32:50.840] Kyle can sort of vaguely drive a go-kart, kind of good.
[01:32:50.840 -> 01:32:55.160] But yet we allow ourselves the licence to criticise in this segment.
[01:32:55.160 -> 01:32:59.840] And I think we have an audience contract that also allows us to do that.
[01:32:59.840 -> 01:33:03.960] So you listening have validated this. This is your fault.
[01:33:03.960 -> 01:33:07.480] So Kyle, who missed the apex for you?
[01:33:08.340 -> 01:33:10.640] There is an AA meeting happening,
[01:33:10.640 -> 01:33:12.480] I think at Mondra at the moment,
[01:33:12.480 -> 01:33:14.880] and that's Aston Anonymous.
[01:33:14.880 -> 01:33:16.560] What on earth happened to Aston?
[01:33:16.560 -> 01:33:18.240] Oh my goodness, I thought they were back.
[01:33:18.240 -> 01:33:19.080] They're back.
[01:33:19.080 -> 01:33:20.920] We hardly even met.
[01:33:20.920 -> 01:33:23.160] Well, according to Nandai they were,
[01:33:23.160 -> 01:33:27.600] but even the Saint of Alonso,
[01:33:27.600 -> 01:33:33.400] we barely had him grace our presence on the screen. It was just unreal, like the commentators
[01:33:33.400 -> 01:33:36.720] barely mentioned him. And I don't know what happened to Aston, especially after his comments
[01:33:36.720 -> 01:33:40.480] after being on a great drive in Zandvoort and goes, we're going to win a race soon.
[01:33:40.480 -> 01:33:45.920] We're getting there. We're getting there. So they were nowhere. So there is a does the face fit
[01:33:45.920 -> 01:33:51.840] in commentary and media and stuff and there was a big will and a big investment at the start of
[01:33:51.840 -> 01:33:55.440] the season that the Aston Martin thing was real, they were going to finish P2, challenge for the
[01:33:55.440 -> 01:34:00.400] title. It's too big a climb down to go, oh that was totally wrong at the beginning and we should
[01:34:00.400 -> 01:34:04.640] have really anticipated that they would go down into the midfield because that's what this outfit
[01:34:04.640 -> 01:34:08.080] has kind of done, they front load their development. We should have celebrated
[01:34:08.080 -> 01:34:11.840] them doing well at the front but been realistic. They weren't realistic. They got caught up in
[01:34:11.840 -> 01:34:18.560] hyperbole and so now when they spike and peak, the media goes nuts about it. Zandvoort, they're back,
[01:34:18.560 -> 01:34:22.960] yeah of course it's brilliant. They ignored the three races where the form didn't show that
[01:34:22.960 -> 01:34:31.280] and then it's going to be ignored now that they didn't do well at Monza. That said, you know, track-specific stuff will play a part in that as
[01:34:31.280 -> 01:34:38.320] well. But yeah, fair enough. Yeah, and the gap from Alonso to Stroll is big. So in fact, I am going to
[01:34:38.320 -> 01:34:46.720] give my Missed Apex Award to Michael Crack. Ah, fine. My crack. Okay. The bad thing award is my crack. My crack
[01:34:46.720 -> 01:34:54.880] is the bad thing. Okay, fine. Because he said in a Schaffnauer-esque defence of Lance Stroll,
[01:34:54.880 -> 01:35:00.240] yes, no, the gap isn't big at all. We are letting Lance Stroll down. That side of the
[01:35:00.240 -> 01:35:13.760] garage is doing bad things. We need to tighten up our strategy and give him the car he needs. So, my crack is taking it all. My crack is taking all the blame for Stroll's
[01:35:13.760 -> 01:35:14.760] bad performance.
[01:35:14.760 -> 01:35:22.400] It's a pretty thankless task, isn't it? Being the TP or any kind of management of that.
[01:35:22.400 -> 01:35:26.640] You have to lie. You have to be forced to lie.
[01:35:26.640 -> 01:35:30.120] Being cheapy for a money crack is just not good.
[01:35:30.120 -> 01:35:31.120] Yes.
[01:35:31.120 -> 01:35:32.120] Okay.
[01:35:32.120 -> 01:35:33.120] Well, look, that's it.
[01:35:33.120 -> 01:35:34.120] Right.
[01:35:34.120 -> 01:35:35.120] I give up.
[01:35:35.120 -> 01:35:37.040] Let's just get some jazz on and just end this.
[01:35:37.040 -> 01:35:38.040] Send this thing.
[01:35:38.040 -> 01:35:39.920] Go on, Chris.
[01:35:39.920 -> 01:35:40.920] Spanners.
[01:35:40.920 -> 01:35:41.920] Yes.
[01:35:41.920 -> 01:35:42.920] Kyle.
[01:35:42.920 -> 01:35:47.920] Kyle, there was another AA meeting happening at Monza and it was Alpine Anonymous.
[01:35:47.920 -> 01:35:57.440] What on earth? Where has the pace gone? Both Alton Q1 didn't see anything of them in the
[01:35:57.440 -> 01:36:02.680] race at all except for some smoky brakes from Pierre Gasly. Again, I mean, what on earth?
[01:36:02.680 -> 01:36:08.000] Just absolute non weekend. Again, engine, engine, engine. So Monza, specific.
[01:36:08.000 -> 01:36:09.000] Exactly.
[01:36:09.000 -> 01:36:13.480] A power-sensitive track when you don't have an engine, it's usually bad.
[01:36:13.480 -> 01:36:14.960] Yeah, what an embarrassment.
[01:36:14.960 -> 01:36:17.000] Matt, who missed the apex for you?
[01:36:17.000 -> 01:36:22.280] Well, if we're going to be... and this, I don't know. I'm only bringing this up because
[01:36:22.280 -> 01:36:26.240] it seems to be a larger thing. I'm going to go with Toto Wolff.
[01:36:26.240 -> 01:36:36.320] If his reported remarks about Max Verstappen's achievement were accurate, it just seems really
[01:36:36.320 -> 01:36:40.680] off base for the kind of organization he represents running.
[01:36:40.680 -> 01:36:43.800] I don't know if it's just because he's become a billionaire now and that's what happens
[01:36:43.800 -> 01:36:45.280] when you have a billion dollars.
[01:36:45.280 -> 01:36:47.280] No, I've got a theory.
[01:36:47.280 -> 01:36:53.440] I'm also going to raise the larger question. Are we suddenly starting to get some questions
[01:36:53.440 -> 01:36:55.440] from Mercedes corporate?
[01:36:55.440 -> 01:37:00.760] Maybe they're under pressure. So Matt, this is combined with Lewis Hamilton's completely,
[01:37:00.760 -> 01:37:06.240] it seems unprovoked attack on a third of the field by saying all my teammates were better
[01:37:06.240 -> 01:37:12.320] than all of Verstappen's teammates, which is just a really... So the whole of Twitter
[01:37:12.320 -> 01:37:17.000] has just been like, well, was Jenson Button better than Pierre Gasly? It's like, forget
[01:37:17.000 -> 01:37:24.120] about the maths about whether that is actually true. Why were you saying that? Where's that
[01:37:24.120 -> 01:37:28.400] come from? Why has Toto Wolff not just from? Why has Toto Wolff just not said
[01:37:28.400 -> 01:37:34.080] congratulations on a historic record, the most wins in a row ever. That's great. Leave
[01:37:34.080 -> 01:37:39.040] it there. So there's obviously there's something in the Mercedes upper management and drivers
[01:37:39.040 -> 01:37:52.320] and stuff where they've got their backup. So something has got their backup and they're going out being quite provocative, which is not very Mercedes-esque. And I think, Kyle, sort of unnecessary, avoidable?
[01:37:52.320 -> 01:37:57.800] Yes, they've kind of let themselves down a little bit. And my little theory is this is
[01:37:57.800 -> 01:38:03.680] a Red Bull tactic and Horner has gone through years of unnecessary, disingenuous, snidey
[01:38:03.680 -> 01:38:06.320] comments in the press. And annoyingly, I think after
[01:38:06.320 -> 01:38:11.140] 2021, I think hurt them so much that they've been dragged down into it and now they're
[01:38:11.140 -> 01:38:12.440] trying to do the Red Bull tag.
[01:38:12.440 -> 01:38:18.160] But two years later, throw in some dirt. Yeah. And it's no, be the bigger men, don't congratulate
[01:38:18.160 -> 01:38:21.520] them and take it on the chin. But unfortunately they're not. So I agree with Matt on that.
[01:38:21.520 -> 01:38:28.720] And I agree with you because with Lewis's comments were a bit unprovoked. It's smelling a bit of sour grapes. It's like, guys, have a bit more dignity
[01:38:28.720 -> 01:38:33.200] and don't swoop down to that level. But I think they're doing this because Red Bull have done
[01:38:33.200 -> 01:38:37.280] this to them for years. And they're finally just cracked. And now they're just doing the same thing,
[01:38:37.280 -> 01:38:39.200] which makes them just as bad. So it's...
[01:38:39.200 -> 01:38:49.720] So, you know, cracking at the end of all that, I wouldn't say is the same as doing it in a sustained way over the course of many years, but by their own standard,
[01:38:49.720 -> 01:38:53.760] it's strange to look at, because one of the things we've sort of admired about Mercedes
[01:38:53.760 -> 01:38:58.560] has been, you know, a sort of a cleaner front end. And what we've been talking about with
[01:38:58.560 -> 01:39:04.920] Red Bull has sometimes been very provocative, gaslighty, kind of, you know, just full like
[01:39:04.920 -> 01:39:06.440] media blitz negative
[01:39:06.440 -> 01:39:10.960] tactics. So it's only by their own standards that we're judging them. But it's more worrying.
[01:39:10.960 -> 01:39:15.040] You know, when that one colleague has a really bad day at work and he kicks off at everyone,
[01:39:15.040 -> 01:39:19.000] you don't go, Oi, Derek, what the hell are you doing? You really should go up to them
[01:39:19.000 -> 01:39:22.680] and say, Derek, is everything okay? Like, is everything okay at home? You know, what's
[01:39:22.680 -> 01:39:28.880] going on? But look, that doesn't distract at all from the fact that Max Verstappen had another stonking victory
[01:39:28.880 -> 01:39:34.240] at the Italian Grand Prix and has the record for the most ever wins in a row. And that
[01:39:34.240 -> 01:39:38.920] is not to be sniffed at at all. And the Ferraris gave us an excellent, excellent show. And
[01:39:38.920 -> 01:39:46.080] as Matt said, stole the show at their home Grand Prix. So we will look forward now to the Singapore Grand Prix.
[01:39:46.080 -> 01:39:51.600] Mist Apex will of course be littering you with mailbag questions and mailbag episodes.
[01:39:51.600 -> 01:39:57.680] So send us your questions and feedback at feedback at mistapex.net and we'll get a panel together to
[01:39:57.680 -> 01:40:01.840] answer them and we'll do our best to bring you some interviews and some news before the next
[01:40:01.840 -> 01:40:05.480] Grand Prix. But wherever we see you next, work hard, be kind and have fun.
[01:40:05.480 -> 01:40:33.600] This was Missed Apex Podcast. We never know how to end the show these days, do we do a curtain call?
[01:40:33.600 -> 01:40:35.600] Let's do a curtain call.
[01:40:35.600 -> 01:40:37.600] Ladies and gentlemen, Chris Stevens!
[01:40:37.600 -> 01:40:39.600] We like Chris Stevens!
[01:40:39.600 -> 01:40:41.600] And it's Kyle Power.
[01:40:41.600 -> 01:40:43.600] Matt to Rumpets.
[01:40:43.600 -> 01:40:49.120] Boo! He went on too long and made too many points
[01:40:49.120 -> 01:40:50.120] in a row.
[01:40:50.120 -> 01:40:54.080] Hilarious. You're hilarious. You're just angry because I was making max points.
[01:40:54.080 -> 01:41:01.760] And Spanners. He's the best one. If I met him in real life, I'd ask for a selfie.
[01:41:01.760 -> 01:41:06.640] It's happened twice now. Two times. At the karting event that I went karting with Brad
[01:41:06.640 -> 01:41:10.160] and Alex, Brad and Alex got recognised and I didn't.
[01:41:10.160 -> 01:41:11.160] Ouch.
[01:41:11.160 -> 01:41:16.280] Spanis, can I, I got my first in the wild.
[01:41:16.280 -> 01:41:18.720] On the tube, on the tube, he said on the tube.
[01:41:18.720 -> 01:41:21.240] On the frigging tube. What is that about?
[01:41:17.820 -> 01:41:18.320] Wow.
[01:41:18.320 -> 01:41:20.260] What is that about?