Inside F1 with Uncle Joe; June 27th

Join Joe and Spanners on a journey inside F1

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**Navigating the World of Formula One with Joe Saward**

1. **Inside F1 with Joe Saward:**

- Joe Saward, an esteemed journalist with an extensive career in Formula One, shares his unique insights and perspectives on the sport.

2. **Gridwalks and Media Presence:**

- Saward discusses his experiences on gridwalks, sharing anecdotes about his interactions with Martin Brundle and the challenges of navigating media attention.

3. **The Significance of Formula One Cars:**

- Saward emphasizes the remarkable engineering and technological advancements showcased in Formula One cars, acknowledging the awe they inspire among enthusiasts.

- He dismisses the notion that journalists can accurately assess the impact of minute aerodynamic adjustments on car performance, suggesting that such claims are often exaggerated.

4. **The Value of Formula One Teams:**

- Saward highlights the growing financial value of Formula One teams, citing the recent Alpine deal as an example.

- He attributes this surge in value to the limited availability of equity and the global appeal of the sport, which attracts significant investment.

5. **Alpine's Financial Boost:**

- The Alpine deal, valued at $900 million, provides a substantial financial injection for the team.

- Saward explains that this investment will allow Alpine to upgrade its facilities, hire new personnel, and enhance its competitiveness.

6. **Ryan Reynolds' Involvement in Alpine:**

- Saward clarifies that Ryan Reynolds is part of an American investment group involved in the Alpine deal.

- He suggests that Reynolds' involvement may generate positive publicity for Alpine, but its impact on the team's value is uncertain.

7. **Formula One's Global Expansion and Value:**

- Saward emphasizes the global reach of Formula One, contrasting it with the limited market of the NFL in the United States.

- He believes that Formula One's global presence contributes to its increasing value and investment potential.

8. **Anti-Dilution Clauses and New Team Entries:**

- Saward discusses the potential implications of high anti-dilution clauses in the next Formula One commercial contract.

- He cautions against excessive anti-competitive measures, as they could discourage new team entries and hinder the sport's growth.

- The viability of new teams, such as Andretti and Hitech, is contingent on meeting financial and regulatory requirements, including securing a manufacturer partnership.

9. **The Future of McLaren and Middle Eastern Investment:**

- Saward dismisses the notion of a McLaren takeover by Middle Eastern investors, suggesting that such a move would be impractical and unlikely.

- He emphasizes the challenges of establishing a rival championship due to the FIA's exclusive control over World Championships.

10. **Driver Market Speculation:**

- Saward analyzes the rumors surrounding Daniel Ricciardo's future, acknowledging the possibility of a move to Red Bull if Sergio Perez's performance continues to falter.

- He also discusses the potential for Liam Lawson to earn a seat at Alpha Tauri if he secures the Super Formula title in Japan.

- Saward acknowledges Yuki Tsunoda's inconsistent performances and suggests that Red Bull may consider promoting Daniel Ricciardo to the senior team.

11. **Perez's Struggles and Potential Replacement:**

- Saward expresses concerns about Sergio Perez's recent performances, suggesting that he may not be delivering the results expected of a driver in the top team.

- He acknowledges the possibility of Red Bull replacing Perez with Ricciardo or another driver if his struggles persist.

12. **The Importance of Consistency and Team Dynamics:**

- Saward emphasizes the value of consistency and strong team dynamics in Formula One, highlighting the need for a reliable second driver to support Max Verstappen's title challenge.

- He suggests that Red Bull may maintain its current driver lineup for the 2024 season, but the decision could depend on Perez's performance in the remaining races. # Formula One Podcast Transcript Summary

## Introduction

* Joe Saward and Spanners discuss Formula One racing, providing insights and perspectives on various aspects of the sport.

## Driver Rumors

* Lewis Hamilton's contract negotiations with Mercedes are ongoing, leading to speculation about his future in the sport.
* Daniel Ricciardo is rumored to be a potential candidate for a seat at McLaren, replacing Oscar Piastri.
* Yuki Tsunoda's performance at AlphaTauri is being evaluated, with speculation about his future with the team.

## Sprint Races

* Joe expresses his dislike for sprint races, arguing that they dilute the excitement of traditional race weekends.
* He highlights the potential impact on team preparation and the unpredictability it introduces, which can be seen as a form of manipulation.

## Fernando Alonso's Performance

* Joe discusses Fernando Alonso's performance at Aston Martin, acknowledging his age and the challenges he faces.
* He emphasizes that engineers may question whether Alonso is maximizing the potential of the car, considering his age and the availability of younger drivers.
* Joe points out that Alonso's statistics, such as points scored, may not fully reflect his abilities, leading to differing opinions among fans and experts.

## Track Preference for Sprint Races

* Joe reiterates his dislike for sprint races, stating that he prefers traditional race weekends.
* He acknowledges that sprint races may attract more viewers and generate revenue, but he believes they diminish the significance of Grand Prix events.

## Preferred Interview Subject

* When asked which F1 driver or personality he would like to interview after a truth serum, Joe chooses Michael Schumacher.
* He explains that Schumacher was known for his guarded nature and that he would be interested in uncovering the balance between his good and bad qualities.

## 2026 Engine Development

* Joe mentions rumors about the progress of various engine manufacturers in developing power units for the 2026 season.
* He highlights the challenges faced by Honda, which is starting from a blank slate and has lost key engineers.
* Joe emphasizes the uncertainty surrounding the development process, with no clear indication of who is ahead or behind at this stage.

## Ferrari's Future

* Joe discusses the possibility of Charles Leclerc and Carlos Sainz leaving Ferrari in 2024 due to the team's struggles.
* He acknowledges that both drivers may be frustrated by the lack of success and could be tempted by lucrative offers from other teams.
* Joe expresses skepticism about Ferrari's ability to turn things around, given their recent history of underperformance.

## Conclusion

* The podcast concludes with Joe and Spanners wrapping up the discussion and thanking the listeners for joining them. # Podcast Summary: "Missed Apex Podcast - Joe Saward"

In this episode of the Missed Apex Podcast, Joe Saward, an esteemed Formula One journalist, joins the discussion to offer his expert insights on various aspects of the sport.

**Ferrari's Performance:**

- Saward acknowledges that Ferrari fans tend to be overly optimistic about their team's chances at the start of each season, often leading to disappointment as the season unfolds.


- He suggests that Ferrari's struggles may stem from a lack of stability within the organization, particularly in the higher echelons of management.


- Saward emphasizes the importance of stability and a clear hierarchy in order for a team to succeed, citing the example of Jean Todt's leadership during Ferrari's successful era.


- He highlights the influence of external factors, such as interference from top management, as potential obstacles to Ferrari's progress.

**Customer Engines in Formula One:**

- Saward asserts that it is challenging for teams using customer engines to achieve top positions in Formula One.


- He explains that, historically, only a handful of customer-engine-powered teams have won races, emphasizing the dominance of manufacturer teams.


- Saward believes that McLaren's struggles cannot be solely attributed to their Mercedes engine, as they have been underperforming for a significant portion of the last decade.


- He suggests that McLaren may benefit from securing a manufacturer engine deal, but acknowledges the uncertainty surrounding such a move.

**Lando Norris' Future:**

- Saward acknowledges that Lando Norris is a talented driver, but questions whether McLaren can provide him with the necessary car and engine package to compete for race wins and championships.


- He suggests that Norris may consider exploring opportunities with other teams if they offer a more competitive environment.

**Bridgestone vs. Pirelli Tires:**

- Saward speculates that Bridgestone, a former Formula One tire supplier, might be interested in returning to the sport under its Firestone brand, which has a strong presence in North America.


- He believes that Formula One would welcome an American tire company, aligning with the sport's focus on expanding its reach in the United States.


- Saward emphasizes that the decision ultimately depends on financial considerations and the technical capabilities of the tire companies involved.

**Other Notable Points:**

- Saward promotes his Substack newsletter, "JSBM," and his blog, "The Green Notebook," as sources of in-depth Formula One analysis and commentary.


- He encourages listeners to follow him on Twitter for updates and insights on the sport.


- The podcast concludes with a brief mention of an upcoming karting event organized by the hosts.

Overall, this podcast episode provides valuable insights from Joe Saward on various topics related to Formula One, including team dynamics, engine choices, driver prospects, and tire suppliers.

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[01:03.300 -> 01:09.000] You are listening to Missed Apex podcast. We live F1.
[01:20.000 -> 01:26.000] Welcome to inside F1 with Joe Saywood. I'm your host Richard Ready, but my friends call me Spanners.
[01:26.000 -> 01:32.440] So let's be friends. Let's get straight into it and introduce a man who's been to every Grand Prix since
[01:33.280 -> 01:39.420] 1998. The only person that Martin Brundle yields to on a gridwalk. It's Joe Saywood. How's it going Joe?
[01:40.200 -> 01:48.560] 88. I said 88 Joe, stop lying. You said 98 again. Honestly, you keep getting yourself into trouble
[01:48.560 -> 01:55.280] on gridwalks. We saw Brundle savagely pushing you out of the way on telly. Well, as I was saying
[01:55.280 -> 02:01.520] before, Martin and I go back a ways, so I will butt into his conversations and he will butt into
[02:01.520 -> 02:06.560] mine, which is fair enough. Do you ever try and get yourself on telly? Is there a temptation
[02:06.560 -> 02:08.440] to kind of wave and hold up a sign?
[02:08.920 -> 02:11.680] There are a whole bunch of journalists whose sole purpose
[02:11.680 -> 02:15.240] in life is to be spotted on the grid, looking very learned and
[02:15.240 -> 02:17.360] looking at the cars as though they have a faintest idea what
[02:17.360 -> 02:20.280] they're looking at. And you can see them if you look on each
[02:20.280 -> 02:23.600] individual race. And what they're doing is they're showing
[02:23.600 -> 02:25.520] the editors back home that they
[02:25.520 -> 02:30.880] are actually at the race, as opposed to just sort of lolling about by a swimming pool.
[02:32.480 -> 02:38.240] So yeah, some of them do. And occasionally, I have been known to sort of sneak into a French TV shot,
[02:38.880 -> 02:45.600] just to keep the wife and my French mob happy. But I don't sort of do it
[02:45.600 -> 02:48.360] deliberately quite often. What normally happens on the grid is
[02:48.360 -> 02:53.480] I'm, it's the one opportunity I get where everybody comes out of
[02:53.480 -> 02:58.840] hiding. So I'm rushing around like a busy person, as opposed
[02:58.840 -> 03:03.640] to a blue arse fly. And I am trying to catch as many people
[03:03.640 -> 03:10.520] as I can. So generally speaking, I will, they're crashing through TV stuff.
[03:10.560 -> 03:13.080] I try to avoid sort of walking through the middle of interviews and stuff.
[03:13.680 -> 03:17.600] And occasionally I get interrupted by TV crews, but it's not just the British,
[03:17.600 -> 03:20.840] you know, there's a whole, there's sort of 15 nationalities or with
[03:20.840 -> 03:22.280] crews out there all doing their stuff.
[03:22.880 -> 03:25.840] So it's quite difficult to avoid getting mixed up
[03:25.840 -> 03:27.000] with some of them.
[03:27.000 -> 03:30.200] So yeah, but I don't set out to do it apart from,
[03:30.200 -> 03:32.220] as I said, once or twice on French TV,
[03:32.220 -> 03:33.240] just to prove I'm there.
[03:33.240 -> 03:34.080] I would do that.
[03:34.080 -> 03:37.720] If I, when I'm eventually invited on the grid to record
[03:37.720 -> 03:40.320] in live Missed Apexes on the gridwalk,
[03:40.320 -> 03:42.320] that'll be my sole purpose as well.
[03:42.320 -> 03:43.160] But you were talking about-
[03:43.160 -> 03:44.400] Or just have a t-shirt that says,
[03:44.400 -> 03:45.460] hello mum on it or something
[03:45.460 -> 03:48.480] Yeah, that's the one and a click like and subscribe click the bell
[03:48.480 -> 03:52.320] That's what everyone watching this should do now subscribe to the channel and click the bell to get a notification
[03:52.780 -> 03:58.560] When we go live are you talking about they they look at the cars looking learned stroking their beards
[03:58.840 -> 04:04.080] Do you yes you don't seem to do that like I don't you never like are looking at the cars and like going
[04:04.080 -> 04:06.520] I look at the flick up in the floor.
[04:06.520 -> 04:08.080] Why would I look at a car?
[04:08.080 -> 04:09.820] I haven't got the faintest idea.
[04:09.820 -> 04:14.660] If I was an aerodynamicist, I'd be earning a lot more money and not understanding what
[04:14.660 -> 04:15.660] it means.
[04:15.660 -> 04:21.320] So pretending that I know what it means makes no sense at all.
[04:21.320 -> 04:26.880] And I fully admit I have no clue as to what one little flick will do.
[04:26.880 -> 04:32.460] But anybody who claims they does, a journalist, I'm afraid is a kind of a fraud, I think,
[04:32.460 -> 04:35.540] because otherwise they'd be working in aerodynamics.
[04:35.540 -> 04:36.540] It's a...
[04:36.540 -> 04:40.260] Well, I think you can report on the tech news and report on what people are saying.
[04:40.260 -> 04:41.260] Well, you can report on...
[04:41.260 -> 04:43.020] There's an extra bump if you can spot one.
[04:43.020 -> 04:50.560] There are some people who are good at spotting bumps on cars, but honestly, I mean, I just think it's a fairly pointless
[04:51.680 -> 04:56.640] beard wagging exercise. Beard wagging. We've got some questions from your Twitter followers
[04:56.640 -> 05:00.800] today, Joe. But yeah, just while we're on this subject though of looking at the cars,
[05:00.800 -> 05:09.440] obviously when you first started reporting and being on grids, they were like cigar tubes with big wagon wheels on them. But do you rate the modern cars? And do you
[05:09.440 -> 05:10.920] still look at them and go, wow?
[05:10.920 -> 05:14.320] Well, every time you look at a Formula One car, you look at it and go, wow, because they're
[05:14.320 -> 05:20.640] amazing things. But yeah, in my entire career, they've always been amazing things because
[05:20.640 -> 05:26.160] my entire career has encapsulated the carbon fibre era, which is the most amazing thing.
[05:26.880 -> 05:34.480] I remember many, many years ago, I went with a rocket designer, who was a, actually, he was my
[05:34.480 -> 05:42.000] father-in-law at the time. And he'd been involved in rocket design in the 1960s. And he came to a
[05:42.000 -> 05:47.640] race and I took him around and he was in absolute awe of these machines. He was just gobsmacked by what
[05:47.640 -> 05:51.120] he was seeing the technology. And he was absolutely
[05:51.120 -> 05:55.240] fascinated. And he started talking to an engineer I
[05:55.240 -> 05:58.600] introduced him to. And the engineer said, what's your
[05:58.600 -> 06:00.600] background? And he told him so there were these two people
[06:00.600 -> 06:04.800] staring in awe at each other. It was very funny to watch because
[06:04.960 -> 06:05.920] one was impressed by
[06:05.920 -> 06:09.680] the rocket designer and the other one was impressed by the quality of the machinery.
[06:09.680 -> 06:15.840] And that gives you an idea of what Formula One is really about. It is really extraordinary stuff,
[06:15.840 -> 06:22.000] and I appreciate that. And you appreciate these things when they come whizzing down to the back
[06:22.000 -> 06:27.720] of the grid and stop. You look at these things and just the pure animal power
[06:27.720 -> 06:29.400] of these machines is fantastic.
[06:29.880 -> 06:31.200] And so, yes, I appreciate that.
[06:31.200 -> 06:34.520] But in terms of the little detail of the aerodynamic flips and all the rest of it,
[06:35.080 -> 06:39.720] I think it's just all bull that people can actually say, well, this makes a
[06:39.720 -> 06:42.000] difference of three tenths of a second.
[06:44.080 -> 06:46.120] Well, that's why I subcontract out tech time,
[06:46.120 -> 06:47.680] because I can't see any difference.
[06:47.680 -> 06:49.760] I go, look at this incredible upgrade.
[06:49.760 -> 06:51.560] I can't see anything.
[06:51.560 -> 06:52.800] I'd best nod along, though.
[06:52.800 -> 06:54.040] I'd best nod along.
[06:54.040 -> 06:58.080] Well, I think the fact is that there are people who,
[06:58.080 -> 07:00.560] I think an awful lot of them are frauds,
[07:00.560 -> 07:04.240] people who say that they can spot the differences
[07:04.240 -> 07:07.060] and what will make a difference.
[07:07.060 -> 07:08.640] But maybe they're not.
[07:08.640 -> 07:12.240] But then again, I go back to the same point, if they know all this sort of stuff, why aren't
[07:12.240 -> 07:13.240] they aerodynamicists?
[07:13.240 -> 07:14.400] Because there's far more money in it.
[07:14.400 -> 07:17.560] I wonder if Bob Mallett is an aerodynamicist.
[07:17.560 -> 07:19.200] Seems like he wouldn't be.
[07:19.200 -> 07:21.680] Seems he'd be more of a percussive drummer.
[07:21.680 -> 07:24.160] But Bob asks a question in your Twitter replies.
[07:24.160 -> 07:26.000] He says, well well this is the big
[07:26.000 -> 07:30.720] news isn't it, regarding the Alpine deal, what sort of return would the investors be getting,
[07:30.720 -> 07:36.880] or is it a hold and sell later for profit kind of plan? And Ritesh asks, what are your thoughts on
[07:36.880 -> 07:46.240] the Alpine deal if you haven't already addressed it? What changes for Alpine now? Is this their slow burn out of F1?
[07:46.240 -> 07:51.320] And yeah, so Ryan Reynolds and Ralph Moore asks, is Ryan Reynolds going to drive an F1?
[07:51.320 -> 07:52.320] Now I think he's like 45.
[07:52.320 -> 07:53.320] There you go.
[07:53.320 -> 07:54.320] What do you think, Joe?
[07:54.320 -> 07:55.320] This is glamour though, isn't it?
[07:55.320 -> 07:58.320] Okay, from the top.
[07:58.320 -> 08:10.840] This is a bunch of US investors going in because they think the value of the team will go up. They're not expecting, and they won't get any sort of serious money back
[08:11.220 -> 08:13.440] on the year by year basis.
[08:14.000 -> 08:16.760] I'd be amazed if they get anything, but they all think that they'll
[08:16.760 -> 08:17.800] probably double their money.
[08:17.920 -> 08:19.680] And so they're all coming charging in.
[08:20.520 -> 08:33.000] As to what it will do for Alpine, it gives them a load of money because Renault had very tight budgets and the budgets were so tight that it didn't mean that Alpine can do everything they wanted to do because Renault wasn't willing to pay for it.
[08:33.000 -> 08:45.780] So they've got about $218 million will go into their bank account and they can spend that on new machines, new people and upgrading to make them more competitive. So it's a big deal for them.
[08:46.140 -> 08:51.360] It's a big deal for them because it values the team at $900 million.
[08:52.120 -> 08:54.800] That's a big deal for everybody in Formula One, because that means all
[08:54.800 -> 09:01.180] the valuations will go up because that will sort of set the latest trend.
[09:01.180 -> 09:02.280] I mean, we've been expecting it.
[09:02.280 -> 09:05.440] I was expecting about 850, but that was six months ago when this deal was first discussed. It's, we've been expecting it. I was expecting about 850 and, but you know,
[09:05.440 -> 09:08.960] that was six months ago when this deal was first discussed. It's been around for a long time.
[09:10.080 -> 09:14.240] And six months ago, they were talking 850. If it's gone up to nine, that tells you the rate
[09:14.240 -> 09:22.880] that it's growing at. As to Ryan Reynolds, he's just an investor. He came to a race a while ago,
[09:22.880 -> 09:25.000] probably enjoyed it, thought this was quite a good
[09:25.000 -> 09:27.040] idea, wouldn't do any harm.
[09:27.340 -> 09:31.920] And I think, I think you can see that from Alpine's point of view, there are some, I
[09:31.920 -> 09:34.440] mean, Reynolds is a minor player in this.
[09:34.440 -> 09:38.960] I know that sounds a silly thing to say, but he's only a very small part of that
[09:38.960 -> 09:39.240] group.
[09:39.240 -> 09:43.740] And the group was full of some very interesting people with all kinds of
[09:43.740 -> 09:47.320] connections, um, and some very powerful people in the sports
[09:47.800 -> 09:54.260] marketing world. So there's lots of advantages in doing it. The
[09:54.260 -> 09:57.480] other thing was, it was about the only equity that was left
[09:57.480 -> 10:01.440] available. I've gone around the teams and sort of said, are you
[10:01.440 -> 10:05.040] selling anything? And you'd be amazed. I have been completely amazed by people just saying absolutely not. And of said, are you selling anything? And you'd be amazed.
[10:08.880 -> 10:12.600] I would have been completely amazed by people just saying absolutely not. And I said, well, I might have somebody who's worth a lot of money.
[10:12.600 -> 10:16.920] In fact, I've had a number of people asking me if they could find a way in.
[10:17.280 -> 10:19.160] And so I have been around.
[10:19.160 -> 10:22.280] In fact, I did have some chats with Alpine about this very subject.
[10:22.480 -> 10:25.160] Somebody approached me and said, can you do this?
[10:25.160 -> 10:29.200] And I said, sure, I can for a small financial consideration if it comes out.
[10:30.200 -> 10:35.040] And so, yeah, I've talked around the teams and there is no equity available,
[10:35.360 -> 10:36.680] no matter how much money you've got.
[10:37.200 -> 10:39.200] So, explain that to me a bit.
[10:39.200 -> 10:40.000] So what does that mean?
[10:40.000 -> 10:40.960] What do you mean by that?
[10:40.960 -> 10:41.760] Nobody's selling.
[10:42.000 -> 10:42.640] Oh, I see.
[10:42.680 -> 10:43.280] There's no stock.
[10:43.280 -> 10:46.000] Nobody will sell you 1% of a racing team now.
[10:46.320 -> 10:47.720] Now the Alpine deal is done.
[10:48.360 -> 10:49.400] They've got 15.
[10:50.000 -> 10:53.040] If they've sold 25, they've got about 15 left.
[10:53.040 -> 10:56.320] They could sell, but they're not going to as far as I understand it.
[10:57.040 -> 11:02.360] This deal may include increasing the percentage later on.
[11:02.520 -> 11:06.840] We're not sure about that as yet, but they might increase up to about 40 if
[11:06.840 -> 11:07.860] certain things happen.
[11:08.020 -> 11:11.140] So, it's just investing.
[11:11.580 -> 11:17.020] And if you look at the price of NFL teams and other sporting franchises around the
[11:17.020 -> 11:20.220] world, you'll see they're all going up at crazy rates.
[11:20.760 -> 11:23.520] An NFL team is being sold at the moment for 6 billion.
[11:24.000 -> 11:28.580] So, and when you look at it like that, you can see it's a good investment
[11:28.580 -> 11:33.480] because there are 34 NFL teams and they're only in one market ultimately,
[11:34.000 -> 11:35.000] which is the US.
[11:35.280 -> 11:36.880] There are 10 Formula One teams.
[11:36.880 -> 11:39.040] In other words, they're more rare and they are global.
[11:39.200 -> 11:43.480] So in theory, the Formula One team should be worth more than the NFL teams.
[11:44.040 -> 11:44.680] Work that one out.
[11:44.680 -> 11:47.440] That's six, you know, it could be worth six times what they're putting into it.
[11:47.440 -> 11:48.000] So.
[11:48.000 -> 11:52.240] I saw like, well, I think when Liberty Media took over, and I'm sure you'll know the figures,
[11:52.240 -> 11:55.360] the purchase price from CVC was a few billion.
[11:55.920 -> 11:56.800] 4.4.
[11:56.800 -> 11:57.520] 4.4.
[11:57.520 -> 11:57.760] Okay.
[11:57.760 -> 12:00.640] But the recent valuation is like many, many times that.
[12:01.200 -> 12:03.200] 19 the last time I looked, yeah.
[12:03.200 -> 12:05.880] I mean, that's, that's significant, isn't it? Oh yeah. I mean, that's significant, isn't it?
[12:06.400 -> 12:06.880] Oh yeah.
[12:06.920 -> 12:09.960] I mean, and it's not stopped going up yet.
[12:10.200 -> 12:12.000] I mean, it's still going to be going up for a while.
[12:12.120 -> 12:18.160] So Formula One is growing and we're growing in the world's biggest market.
[12:19.040 -> 12:20.640] It's interesting to see NFL.
[12:20.640 -> 12:26.880] I mean, there's going to be some games played in the autumn in London,
[12:26.880 -> 12:31.280] I believe. I'm reliably informed, but the Baltimore Ravens will play the
[12:32.400 -> 12:39.600] somebody's Tottenham in October. And these are, you know, they're trying to spread the word about
[12:39.600 -> 12:50.400] NFL around the world, but if you can't have a sort of regular season activity, it's going to be very hard to get fans. Whereas Formula One can expand globally. So, you know, I think Formula One's a
[12:50.400 -> 12:55.920] really good investment. I don't have any money to invest, but if I did, I would have invested in it.
[12:55.920 -> 13:00.240] Well, I've got a good follow-up on the value of F1 from Terry. We'll do Terry's question next,
[13:00.240 -> 13:04.960] but I think you might've called Ryan Reynolds American, he's Canadian, he's getting corrected
[13:04.960 -> 13:12.000] there. But he's... He's part of an American group. I believe that the group in question
[13:12.000 -> 13:16.880] is registered in America. Well, obviously people will point to his acquisition of
[13:16.880 -> 13:20.800] Rexxom and what he did from a media point of view. Is there any feeling that this is...
[13:20.800 -> 13:25.920] It won't do any harm for Alpine for Ryan Reynolds to show up.
[13:25.920 -> 13:33.640] Anybody who shows up and has that much profile, it's a good, but will it drive up the value
[13:33.640 -> 13:34.840] because he's Ryan Reynolds?
[13:34.840 -> 13:35.840] I don't know.
[13:35.840 -> 13:37.640] Maybe he'll make a few movies about Alpine.
[13:37.640 -> 13:43.320] He has a sort of little movie making empire outside his regular one, which he controls.
[13:43.320 -> 13:44.320] Yeah.
[13:44.320 -> 13:48.060] I was just looking at the scale of his wealth and I think they're being tipped.
[13:48.060 -> 13:50.740] He's not massively wealthy compared to some of these big boys.
[13:50.740 -> 13:53.940] No, but I think they're tipping him to be, you know, a billionaire.
[13:53.940 -> 13:55.460] He's got like his gin company and stuff.
[13:55.460 -> 13:59.000] So he does like, he will have money to make a more significant investment.
[13:59.000 -> 14:06.240] But if a team is valued, say, purchase price of about a billion, and that's Alpine, then you've really
[14:06.240 -> 14:09.520] kind of upped the scales for what it takes for someone to come in and just go, right,
[14:09.520 -> 14:13.640] I'm going to buy an existing franchise, if there was one available, which there seems
[14:13.640 -> 14:14.640] not to be.
[14:14.640 -> 14:15.920] Yeah, I mean, that's the thing.
[14:15.920 -> 14:21.440] That's why Michael Andretti is trying to start his own team, because he couldn't buy one.
[14:21.440 -> 14:24.920] He could have bought one, he could have bought the Sauber team, but then they decided against
[14:24.920 -> 14:25.400] it for some
[14:25.400 -> 14:28.200] reason, they decided they didn't want to do that deal, probably because Audi came
[14:28.200 -> 14:32.040] knocking on the door and offered them more money or more stability or more something.
[14:32.600 -> 14:39.360] But that's why he's starting his own team or trying to, to get in on that thing.
[14:39.360 -> 14:47.120] And that's one of the reasons also why people are not very keen on having new teams, because they're trying
[14:47.120 -> 14:54.760] to equalise the performance to some extent by balancing up the finances of teams. They
[14:54.760 -> 14:56.600] don't need two weak teams joining them.
[14:56.600 -> 15:00.480] Yeah, I've seen this is interesting. Sorry, Terry, we've got a pause. Way, way relevant
[15:00.480 -> 15:05.520] question from Tannush, who says, Hi Hi Joe, do you expect prospective new entrants
[15:05.520 -> 15:11.200] like Andretti and Hitech, I had Hitech at school, to be allowed in if they're ready
[15:11.200 -> 15:16.960] to pay a higher buying clause? And what would the new value of the expansion clause be?
[15:16.960 -> 15:21.040] 500 million? I think I heard 1 billion touted as well, and so has Tannoush.
[15:28.080 -> 15:36.960] and so has Tannoush. Well, yeah, you can read a lot of rubbish on the internet. I think that it would be very, very ill-advised of the Formula One group and the teams in the next commercial
[15:36.960 -> 15:46.400] contract to have a massive anti-dilution clause. That's what it's supposed to be. Because there's a point
[15:46.400 -> 15:51.680] at which it ceases to be about dilution and it becomes anti-competitive. And I think they're
[15:51.680 -> 15:58.320] in a danger of, if they go too high, I think the theory is that they might go to 600 because
[15:58.320 -> 16:03.600] that's three times what it is now, 200. 200 is the anti-dilution clause for one year.
[16:06.320 -> 16:06.880] it is now, 200. 200 is the anti-dilution clause for one year. That's just about justifiable.
[16:11.840 -> 16:16.000] Three years, there used to be a thing in Formula One a few years ago when you didn't earn prize money for the first three years unless you did good performances in two of the three.
[16:16.560 -> 16:25.520] So you could in theory argue it, but you are skating on the edge of anti-competitive behavior.
[16:25.520 -> 16:32.080] And the European competition directorate is very, very hot on making sure that Formula
[16:32.080 -> 16:38.080] One, because Formula One took the mickey 20 odd years ago, and then were pushed into shape
[16:38.080 -> 16:42.720] by the competition directorate with a very clear set of regulations as to what they could
[16:42.720 -> 16:48.320] and couldn't do. And so it would be very unwise of
[16:48.320 -> 16:55.920] Formula One to appear to be anti-competitive. And you can bet some of the teams who think that
[16:55.920 -> 17:00.560] they're important enough to come in would be upset enough to probably take legal action
[17:01.920 -> 17:06.480] if they were not granted entries. But having said that, they don't have much of a case
[17:06.480 -> 17:13.840] if they have silly elements in their packages, like the team will be based in the US. That is
[17:13.840 -> 17:20.400] impractical, in my opinion. And I think in the opinion of the people who make the decisions,
[17:20.960 -> 17:25.840] basing a team in the US doesn't make any sense.
[17:25.840 -> 17:28.800] There might be questions about some of the money supply.
[17:28.800 -> 17:35.720] There are right and proper person laws involved in all this.
[17:35.720 -> 17:40.680] So for example, if you're a Russian backer, you're going to be in deep trouble.
[17:40.680 -> 17:45.920] I'm afraid that's, whether you like it or not, that's a reality because of sanctions
[17:45.920 -> 17:47.040] and all the rest of it.
[17:47.040 -> 17:50.960] So I believe high tech's got some Kazakh money behind them.
[17:50.960 -> 17:51.960] Okay.
[17:51.960 -> 17:52.960] They're all right?
[17:52.960 -> 17:56.320] Well, I don't know if they're all right or not.
[17:56.320 -> 18:01.840] It's not for me to decide if a Kazakh billionaire is a good guy or a bad guy, but that's something
[18:01.840 -> 18:10.680] that will be decided upon by others. But I don't see anybody getting an entry unless they bring a manufacturer with them.
[18:10.680 -> 18:13.100] I think that is, for me, that's the key.
[18:14.820 -> 18:20.560] And GM is supposedly coming with Andretti, but it's only notional.
[18:20.820 -> 18:27.620] It's not, we have a commitment to come and build our own engine.
[18:27.620 -> 18:31.700] At the moment, they've got a commitment to come and badge an Alpine engine.
[18:32.240 -> 18:32.440] Yeah.
[18:32.440 -> 18:34.880] They're going to do some hybrid parts, right?
[18:35.140 -> 18:39.620] Yeah, but that's really not, you know, well, it's a bit like Alfa Romeo, isn't it?
[18:39.620 -> 18:41.140] They're getting a free ride on Formula One.
[18:41.680 -> 18:48.040] There is nothing about Alfa Romeo, apart from a check check that actually is involved in Formula One. It's a
[18:48.040 -> 18:50.400] Ferrari engine in the Sauber chassis, they call it Alfa
[18:50.400 -> 18:54.360] Romeo. And they probably pay them X million a year. But
[18:54.360 -> 18:57.880] that's a free ride on Formula One. And if I were, and Bernie
[18:57.880 -> 19:00.880] used to do this all the time, nobody gets a free ride in
[19:00.880 -> 19:03.880] Formula One, you want to come in, you pay, you pay the going
[19:03.880 -> 19:06.440] rate as a manufacturer. At the moment,
[19:06.440 -> 19:10.480] nobody's insisting that Alfa Romeo does that. But I can see
[19:10.480 -> 19:14.840] them sort of saying, you know, this isn't how we do it. Again,
[19:14.840 -> 19:17.640] is that competitive, anti competitive? I don't know. But
[19:18.000 -> 19:22.400] certainly Bernie used to say, no car manufacturers, for example,
[19:22.880 -> 19:28.820] race sponsors. If you look back, you'll find in the mid 80s, there were a few races
[19:28.820 -> 19:32.540] sponsored by car manufacturers and that died out. Because
[19:32.580 -> 19:37.080] Bernie, nah, you're not doing that for 10 mil. You know, it's
[19:37.080 -> 19:37.280] not...
[19:37.280 -> 19:38.440] Bernie? Are you here?
[19:40.920 -> 19:42.860] Well, it used to be the Mitsubishi Grand Prix of
[19:42.860 -> 19:45.440] Australia at one point, I seem to remember,
[19:45.440 -> 19:46.440] and that got axed.
[19:46.440 -> 19:51.280] So, and nowadays I noticed that Honda has become a sponsor of a race somewhere.
[19:51.280 -> 19:53.200] I think it must've been the Japanese Grand Prix.
[19:53.200 -> 20:01.600] But, you know, that's a slight change in the philosophy, but it is a cheap way of jumping
[20:01.600 -> 20:03.280] on the Formula One bandwagon.
[20:03.280 -> 20:07.040] So you do drop the odd alarming impression there,
[20:07.040 -> 20:10.640] Joe. One day we'll hear you're Murray Walker. Maybe one day. This is great.
[20:12.640 -> 20:18.080] No, that's not bad. I'd say this is why I love speaking to you because you have a genuine
[20:18.080 -> 20:22.640] understanding of the business of Formula One. You've got your finger in every pie. Everybody
[20:22.640 -> 20:29.680] calls you and texts you, which is great. So I will linger on one more businessy type question, if that's okay. Terry Worth,
[20:29.680 -> 20:35.200] he says, given their investment in other sports, Live Golf, various football clubs, do you
[20:35.200 -> 20:40.120] see the Middle East taking over F1 or team investment? I've seen there seems to be an
[20:40.120 -> 20:46.400] idea to move McLaren to the golf. Any truth or likelihood? Or could they set up their own series?
[20:47.040 -> 20:55.200] Well, they can't set up their own series because it's mad to do that. If you want to be the World
[20:55.200 -> 20:59.680] Championship, the only people allowed to have World Championships are the FIA. They have
[21:00.320 -> 21:07.360] a lock on that. So you can't set up your own system of world championships, you can't license
[21:07.360 -> 21:13.520] your own people. So in other words, you'd need to have an entirely different crew, an entirely
[21:13.520 -> 21:18.320] different section of licensing. And if you did that half the circuits wouldn't join you anyway,
[21:18.320 -> 21:22.800] because they want to stay with the FIA. So basically, it's impossible and always has been
[21:22.800 -> 21:25.120] impossible to set up a rival championship.
[21:25.120 -> 21:27.280] So that's not going to happen.
[21:27.280 -> 21:31.560] In terms of, they've got lots of money in the Middle East, some more than others.
[21:31.560 -> 21:37.640] That deal, the recent deal with Bahrain and Saudi, Bahrain buying Saudi out of McLaren,
[21:37.640 -> 21:40.520] I think was just paying a debt, to be honest.
[21:40.520 -> 21:46.480] I think the Saudis loaned them some money to keep McLaren moving along.
[21:46.760 -> 21:50.040] And I think that was just buying the shares back and giving them the money back.
[21:51.520 -> 21:54.800] So there are limits to what people can spend in Formula One.
[21:54.800 -> 21:56.360] The Saudis have got an awful lot of money.
[21:56.920 -> 21:58.920] They're going to pay a footballer 200 million a year.
[21:58.920 -> 22:03.400] You've got a lot of money to burn, but there are limits to what you can spend.
[22:03.800 -> 22:07.560] And there are also limits to what people want.
[22:08.000 -> 22:14.000] You know, some teams would be willing to sell out for enough money, but some teams
[22:14.000 -> 22:15.680] wouldn't because they're in it for a different reason.
[22:15.880 -> 22:21.840] So we'll see how it all goes, but I don't see any massive takeover and certainly
[22:21.840 -> 22:23.040] not in the short term anyway.
[22:23.640 -> 22:24.120] All right.
[22:24.360 -> 22:27.700] Okay, good. Should we go on to some driver stuff Joe? People do like
[22:27.700 -> 22:32.480] people love a driver rumor. I think the biggest one doing the rounds at the
[22:32.480 -> 22:36.560] moment is probably Daniel Ricciardo's future. So let's see what is in your...
[22:36.560 -> 22:39.800] Might be Lewis Hamilton's future. Yeah, we've got a Lewis Hamilton question as well.
[22:39.800 -> 22:46.000] Let's see there, we'll skip the Checo one. So let's put it from this way.
[22:46.000 -> 22:50.640] Blair asks, what's your viewpoint on Liam Lawson and how does he get himself into the
[22:50.640 -> 22:56.200] conversation at least from a general pundit media point of view for the Alpha Tauri seat?
[22:56.200 -> 23:00.160] And what Blair is picking up on, I think, is that no one seems to think that Liam Lawson
[23:00.160 -> 23:04.120] has a realistic shot of going up in the Red Bull programme.
[23:04.120 -> 23:09.840] I think Liam Lawson has to win the Super Formula in Japan. If he does that, then he will be
[23:11.680 -> 23:17.520] on the radar of... that's why he's there. He got sent out there to impress.
[23:17.520 -> 23:21.760] Pierre Gasly, that happened to him as well. And he did impress and came back and joined.
[23:22.560 -> 23:25.840] You have to remember that AlphaTauri is supposed to be the junior team for Red
[23:25.840 -> 23:26.080] Bull.
[23:27.080 -> 23:30.440] So putting in Daniel Ricciardo is hardly a junior team activity, is it?
[23:30.440 -> 23:32.400] He's 34, I think.
[23:32.440 -> 23:36.760] Well, he's on his way in the other direction, let's put it that way.
[23:36.760 -> 23:42.040] So Liam Lawson would be a sensible bet in as much as he is a Red Bull driver.
[23:42.160 -> 23:44.800] He's come up with Red Bull, which is more than we said for Nick DeVries.
[23:44.800 -> 23:46.480] They put in Nick DeVries because they couldn't think of anything else
[23:46.480 -> 23:51.960] to do. When because they weren't expecting Gasly to disappear
[23:51.960 -> 23:57.080] off to Alpi, originally. And then when they did sort of work
[23:57.080 -> 24:00.960] out a deal, as Pierre wanted out, then they had to find
[24:00.960 -> 24:03.280] somebody else. And they didn't have any people in their scheme
[24:03.920 -> 24:05.440] left and available.
[24:05.760 -> 24:10.920] So I'd be more likely, it would be more likely to see Daniel
[24:10.920 -> 24:15.360] Ricardo going into Perez's seat if Perez continues to underperform.
[24:16.240 -> 24:22.640] I can't honestly see Yuki moving up, but some people like to think that.
[24:23.400 -> 24:25.400] Well, the other thing is Yuki's a Honda driver.
[24:25.400 -> 24:28.160] So, you know, it's, it's all a little bit based on Honda.
[24:28.160 -> 24:31.560] And if Honda are pulling out of Formula One or going off to play with Aston
[24:31.560 -> 24:36.080] Martin in the future, which is another strange deal, but you know, Aston Martin,
[24:36.760 -> 24:39.560] Yuki's much more likely to end up at Aston Martin, I would have thought.
[24:40.120 -> 24:43.120] No, no, I'm pushing, I'm pushing hard.
[24:43.120 -> 24:45.760] I'm pushing the rumour, the Yuki to Red Bull rumour. I'm
[24:45.760 -> 24:48.960] pushing that as hard as I can. You can push it as hard as you like. It won't make it happen,
[24:48.960 -> 24:55.040] will it? But I wanted it to, Joe. Yes, I know. But Yuki's a bit of a bit of a headbanger. He's
[24:55.040 -> 24:58.880] quick, but he just keeps having mistakes and accidents. He's getting better. He's been
[24:58.880 -> 25:07.280] consistent this season so far. Yeah, he's done OK. That's a bonus. Yeah. I mean, has he done okay enough
[25:07.280 -> 25:14.560] to for Helmut Marko to go, yes, we will put him in the big team now. And the answer is probably not.
[25:15.200 -> 25:20.000] So I keep thinking that Perez only had a one year deal. Is it right that he's got two years at
[25:20.000 -> 25:24.320] Red Bull? He does have a two year deal. But you know, when you have lots of money,
[25:24.320 -> 25:25.140] it's just a matter of saying, well, there you go, there's your salary. You go deal, but you know, when you have lots of money, it's just a matter
[25:25.140 -> 25:27.720] of saying, well, there you go, there's your salary.
[25:27.720 -> 25:28.720] You go.
[25:28.720 -> 25:29.720] Yeah.
[25:29.720 -> 25:30.960] You know, we don't need you anymore.
[25:30.960 -> 25:33.560] We've got better options, but we'll pay you to get rid of you.
[25:33.560 -> 25:39.400] So and then your manager can claim image damage and all this sort of stuff, at which point
[25:39.400 -> 25:42.920] you'll be told to bog off again.
[25:42.920 -> 25:47.360] And basically the response to that would be, well, you haven't delivered on the
[25:47.360 -> 25:50.400] goods, we'll pay you, we're being generous, that's all you need really.
[25:50.400 -> 25:56.480] Yeah, so Tanner had a question similar saying, do you have any actual word on Perez's seat
[25:57.040 -> 26:00.720] or will they try and see out his contract? Because is there anything, any murmurs?
[26:00.720 -> 26:02.080] Because obviously he's getting a lot of...
[26:02.720 -> 26:06.120] There are murmurs that he's not doing a good job. You don't need the murmurs. There are
[26:06.120 -> 26:09.880] people screaming it from the rooftops. I mean, he's screaming it from the rooftops. Look
[26:09.880 -> 26:15.880] at me, I'm doing a terrible job. You know, he's just not delivering and you can't afford
[26:15.880 -> 26:25.680] to be in the best car and be finishing fourth. You know, it's just not good enough. So whatever it is has got into him.
[26:29.600 -> 26:34.240] But you know, who knows, who knows, but he's just not doing the job. And that will be, you know, it's fine when you're this
[26:34.240 -> 26:37.120] far ahead, it doesn't matter. Red Bull are not going to get
[26:37.120 -> 26:40.720] beaten this year in any way, shape or form because Max is so
[26:40.720 -> 26:46.320] far ahead and Perez has done just about enough to guarantee that they'll get the
[26:46.320 -> 26:51.280] Constructors as well. But if the other opposition get closer next year, you're going to have to
[26:51.280 -> 26:55.840] have a better number two because Perez's performances, as we're seeing at the moment,
[26:56.400 -> 27:00.560] are not good enough to guarantee you a Constructors championship if the opposition is closer.
[27:01.520 -> 27:07.000] So the boring answer is probably that Perez will be broadly fine over the course of the
[27:07.000 -> 27:10.440] season because he's had a peak, hasn't he? And then he's having a trough. So the most
[27:10.440 -> 27:15.040] boring answer is probably the same lineup for 24 and then Sonoda plus one.
[27:15.040 -> 27:19.640] I wouldn't be 100% sure on that. I think it depends on what happens in the races ahead.
[27:19.640 -> 27:22.640] Here we go. That's what I was trying to get to, Joe. I was trying to get to you. There's
[27:22.640 -> 27:27.120] a real, is there a real risk that they go, that's it for Perez?
[27:27.120 -> 27:29.360] Yes, there is. I would say so.
[27:29.920 -> 27:35.280] And they don't. See the thing is, I would be, I'd be upset as a Yuki fan if they
[27:35.280 -> 27:38.320] decided to put Ricciardo in there who has...
[27:38.320 -> 27:40.560] Who's won more races, Ricciardo or Yuki?
[27:40.560 -> 27:43.680] Yeah, but look, there's potential with Snowden, isn't it? We've seen all of Ricciardo's
[27:43.680 -> 27:46.800] potential. He's been, you's been bang average at times.
[27:47.280 -> 27:47.780] At best.
[27:47.920 -> 27:50.480] He's also been bang brilliant at other times.
[27:50.600 -> 27:56.680] So, you know, I think that if you have a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
[27:57.240 -> 28:02.520] So they say, if Daniel Ricardo is showing signs that his mojo has come back and,
[28:02.520 -> 28:07.680] you know, he's not lost his little, his confidence has come back and you know, he's not lost his little, his confidence
[28:07.680 -> 28:08.680] has come back.
[28:08.680 -> 28:09.680] Yeah.
[28:09.680 -> 28:10.680] You know, whatever.
[28:10.680 -> 28:11.680] Good for him.
[28:11.680 -> 28:15.560] And he's not, he's not going to be a threat to Max and they don't need to have a threat
[28:15.560 -> 28:16.560] for Max.
[28:16.560 -> 28:20.720] What they want is a solid number two, who can win when Max doesn't, if things go wrong.
[28:20.720 -> 28:23.400] And who can score points on all other occasions.
[28:23.400 -> 28:26.320] Will that be Yuki Tsunoda or would that be Daniel Ricciardo?
[28:26.320 -> 28:30.340] My view would be it's probably more likely to be Daniel Ricciardo than Yuki Tsunoda.
[28:30.340 -> 28:34.760] And they said they're giving him a three day in-season test in an F1 car?
[28:34.760 -> 28:35.760] Who?
[28:35.760 -> 28:38.720] I read it on the internet Joe, that he was getting a three day.
[28:38.720 -> 28:40.200] No, but who's having a three day?
[28:40.200 -> 28:41.200] Oh, Ricciardo.
[28:41.200 -> 28:43.400] Oh, Ricciardo, yeah, yeah, I'm sure he is.
[28:43.400 -> 28:45.360] He has been impressing them in the simulator.
[28:45.560 -> 28:46.240] So I'm told.
[28:46.400 -> 28:47.080] There you go then.
[28:47.400 -> 28:50.900] And I did have a chat with him the other day and he did say, he did say that his
[28:50.900 -> 28:52.520] mojo is definitely coming back again.
[28:52.520 -> 28:54.460] He's feeling much better with himself.
[28:55.020 -> 28:58.120] It was quite hard to have a chat with him because, you know, he's
[28:58.160 -> 29:03.400] constantly battling selfies, but we did actually manage to have a
[29:03.400 -> 29:05.520] conversation in the paddock in Montreal.
[29:06.080 -> 29:10.560] Yeah, that's just you, isn't it? Going, come on, Daniel, please. No, Joe, you've had enough.
[29:10.560 -> 29:12.080] You've had enough selfies from me, Joe.
[29:13.040 -> 29:18.400] No, it's not just me. I mean, trying to get a conversation with anybody in Formula One these
[29:18.400 -> 29:22.640] days in the paddock is almost impossible because 27 people leave me to, please don't mind if I
[29:22.640 -> 29:28.120] interrupt. I'd like to have a selfie with Gunther. I'd like to have a selfie with Toto, or I'd like to have a selfie
[29:28.120 -> 29:32.060] with absolutely anybody apart from you. I don't care whether they want selfies or not,
[29:32.060 -> 29:35.780] but you know, the fact is I'm trying to do my work. But you know, that's part of Formula
[29:35.780 -> 29:42.180] 1's success, is that Liberty is allowing more people to pay money to get into the paddock
[29:42.180 -> 29:43.940] and they grab their opportunities.
[29:43.940 -> 29:45.520] I have asked for and got.
[29:45.520 -> 29:47.020] I don't understand selfies.
[29:47.080 -> 29:51.280] I mean, can someone explain to me what is the value of a selfie?
[29:51.280 -> 29:52.960] Look, I'm standing next to somebody famous.
[29:52.960 -> 29:54.200] Does that make me famous?
[29:54.320 -> 29:57.120] It's the equivalent of the autograph, isn't it?
[29:57.400 -> 29:59.000] I've got a selfie of you and me, Joe.
[29:59.000 -> 30:00.400] I asked for one and got one.
[30:00.640 -> 30:01.080] There you go.
[30:01.640 -> 30:01.960] There you go.
[30:03.000 -> 30:04.400] Is it really like an autograph?
[30:04.640 -> 30:05.040] Yeah, it's exciting. I would say, yeah, the time I. Is it really like an autograph? Oh yeah.
[30:05.040 -> 30:05.680] It's exciting.
[30:05.720 -> 30:11.120] I would say, yeah, my, the time I reached out and I got an autograph with a marker pen from Peter Shilton.
[30:11.400 -> 30:14.560] It was as good as the selfie I got with you, Joe.
[30:14.640 -> 30:15.600] Oh, that's what I would say.
[30:15.800 -> 30:16.200] They're about.
[30:16.200 -> 30:17.680] I hope so.
[30:17.680 -> 30:19.720] Peter Shilton's a serious legend.
[30:19.720 -> 30:23.240] You know, I'm just a mere hack, hack about in the Formula One paddock.
[30:23.240 -> 30:24.880] So don't, don't catch up with his Twitter feed.
[30:27.120 -> 30:34.280] Don't, don't ruin the legend. OK, anyway, let's see. Yes, some more driver rumours. So Lewis Hamilton, that's the big
[30:34.280 -> 30:41.200] news. Some of the bigger clickbait news websites are trying to whip up controversy like they
[30:41.200 -> 30:49.200] do every time with Lewis Hamilton's contracts. They do seem to take a while to iron out and finish off. So we always get this little period of speculation.
[30:49.200 -> 30:54.640] Yeah, but does anyone honestly think that the number of sandwiches that are being provided
[30:54.640 -> 30:57.200] will cause Lewis Hamilton to walk away from the sport?
[30:57.200 -> 30:58.200] No.
[30:58.200 -> 31:02.920] It's just darn silly, isn't it? He's going to resign. He's going to resign for a period
[31:02.920 -> 31:10.080] of time, be it one year, two years. maybe he does want to be an ambassador for 30 years to come. And that takes some discussion.
[31:10.080 -> 31:15.840] But the fact is, he has a value, and they have to work out exactly where the value is. And it's not
[31:15.840 -> 31:19.040] like they're sort of hitting each other with axes, they're just having a discussion, well,
[31:19.040 -> 31:25.200] how about that? You know, what if I get 15 years worth of ambassadorial work after this? What do you think?
[31:25.640 -> 31:28.920] You know, the other thing is that Mercedes, honestly, not in a
[31:28.920 -> 31:32.720] position at the moment to replace him.
[31:33.080 -> 31:39.320] So in a way, you know, people will say, well, you could get any number of
[31:39.320 -> 31:42.840] people coming in, contract art, earth, anything, et cetera, et cetera.
[31:43.520 -> 31:46.240] But it takes time for a driver to get up to speed in the team.
[31:46.760 -> 31:52.360] So, you know, nowadays you can't just lob Charles de Cleyre into Mercedes and think
[31:52.360 -> 31:54.480] it's going to work instantly because it's not.
[31:55.100 -> 31:59.040] And it takes time to get these things organized.
[31:59.040 -> 32:03.840] So I think that Lewis will stay on, be it for one year, two years.
[32:04.160 -> 32:05.280] He won't be more than two, I wouldn't
[32:05.280 -> 32:07.160] have thought because he is old.
[32:07.160 -> 32:09.200] 38 I think.
[32:09.200 -> 32:11.560] In Formula One terms.
[32:11.560 -> 32:14.600] And there will inevitably be questions about, can he still do it?
[32:14.600 -> 32:18.520] Well, at the moment he seems to be doing it because, you know, George is now having a
[32:18.520 -> 32:23.040] sort of, oh, he's quite quick, isn't he?
[32:23.040 -> 32:27.140] Whereas earlier in the season, George was looking a bit better than Lewis.
[32:27.140 -> 32:30.300] Now it's a little bit more even, so we'll see how it goes.
[32:30.300 -> 32:36.800] But like most things in Formula One, it differs from week to week, depending on your results.
[32:36.800 -> 32:42.240] So, you know, one week, Guan Yu-Jo, everyone's talking about Guan Yu-Jo because he hasn't
[32:42.240 -> 32:43.400] scored many points this year.
[32:43.400 -> 32:47.840] And next week, if he suddenly finishes fifth, let's just say there's a few cars shunt, the
[32:47.840 -> 32:50.480] Alfa Romeo team doesn't mess it up.
[32:50.480 -> 32:53.440] And Guan Yu delivers the goods and he finishes fifth.
[32:53.440 -> 32:56.880] The week after that, everyone will be talking about how he's going to join Mercedes because
[32:56.880 -> 32:59.280] of the Chinese market, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
[32:59.280 -> 33:02.880] and all the other rubbish that you read on the internet, all the extrapolation that goes
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[35:10.200 -> 35:12.520] With so many new sources at the moment,
[35:12.520 -> 35:14.520] and thank you by the way, that was Andrew Zarb
[35:14.520 -> 35:15.360] who's asked that question,
[35:15.360 -> 35:17.680] anything regarding Lewis Hamilton's new contract.
[35:17.680 -> 35:19.040] With so many new sources now,
[35:19.040 -> 35:21.740] what we get is a massive reaction to any spikes
[35:21.740 -> 35:24.260] and less analysis of overall trends.
[35:24.260 -> 35:25.560] So yeah, so like for example,
[35:25.560 -> 35:30.640] I knew that when Mercedes did well in Barcelona, even though they themselves said it probably
[35:30.640 -> 35:36.120] won't be quite the same in Canada, and you could tell by the track characteristics that
[35:36.120 -> 35:39.400] you go, well, a bumpy track, stop and go, probably not going to see what they're going
[35:39.400 -> 35:43.600] to do. Even though everyone knew that well in advance, you still had to brace for the
[35:43.600 -> 35:47.600] wave of, is this upgrade washed? A false dawn for Mercedes.
[35:47.600 -> 35:53.840] That's just the way, the fact of the matter is that most of the people writing this stuff
[35:53.840 -> 35:58.640] haven't got the faintest idea how Formula One works. They are self-declared F1 journalists,
[35:58.640 -> 36:02.400] they've never been to a paddock, they've never been in a, they've never talked to anyone in
[36:02.400 -> 36:05.760] Formula One, most of them. They're just sitting at home making it up.
[36:05.800 -> 36:08.840] And what you do is you take the facts you can find, i.e.
[36:08.840 -> 36:12.440] stuff that people who are there have produced and you extrapolate it into
[36:12.440 -> 36:13.160] something else.
[36:13.280 -> 36:18.520] And so you get these ridiculous swings based on last week's news.
[36:19.200 -> 36:24.720] And it's just, I don't know, as a fan, you must go mad because I'm trying to
[36:24.720 -> 36:25.680] find the good stuff,
[36:26.320 -> 36:30.720] the solid stuff, the sensible, reasonable stuff. And I read stuff and even I go,
[36:31.360 -> 36:35.280] wow, what a lot of horse ****. Sorry, it's a family show.
[36:35.280 -> 36:37.040] No, sorry kids.
[36:37.920 -> 36:39.440] You can bleep it, you can bleep it.
[36:39.440 -> 36:44.640] It's work, Joe, I'm not going to. Kids, that word has been taught to you by Uncle Joe,
[36:44.640 -> 36:45.520] not me, it's not going to... kids, that word has been taught to you by Uncle Joe, not me, it's not my
[36:45.520 -> 36:50.400] fault. I'm happy to have done it. Every kid needs to know that word. It's a useful one.
[36:51.280 -> 36:54.000] You can at least swear in French, Joe, giving your French based...
[36:54.000 -> 36:55.840] I'll do it. Oh, he did it.
[36:56.480 -> 37:00.000] You asked me to. What am I supposed to say? Anyway, yeah, go on.
[37:00.000 -> 37:04.640] No, no, no. Look, we've got a great comment from Sandra, actually, in the live chat,
[37:04.640 -> 37:10.400] saying, well, Alonzo's 43 and no one's questioning his age, which leads to another listener question
[37:11.040 -> 37:15.760] from Ali, who said, hi, Joe, I saw that you had apparently mentioned somewhere
[37:15.760 -> 37:19.920] that Aston Martin engineers thought that Alonzo wasn't getting the most out of the car,
[37:19.920 -> 37:25.080] never mind Stroll. I didn't say that they thought that I said that they might
[37:25.080 -> 37:27.840] think that. And there's a slight difference there. I mean,
[37:27.840 -> 37:32.440] obviously, a lot of it gets lost in translation. But if, if you
[37:32.440 -> 37:36.040] are an engineer, you are a pragmatist, and you are basing
[37:36.040 -> 37:38.920] everything on data, and they're looking at the thing and going,
[37:38.920 -> 37:42.080] I wonder if this car is going as fast as it could do. And, you
[37:42.080 -> 37:46.980] know, so they are going to be questioning, is Alonzo the best person
[37:46.980 -> 37:52.940] for us? Or could we find somebody better? Somebody 15 years younger than Alonzo, who
[37:52.940 -> 38:00.720] is still incredibly fast and has no other sort of, nothing else in life that weighs
[38:00.720 -> 38:09.160] heavily on them, which is only normal. As you get older, you get slower. It is a fact. Some cases, it's more
[38:09.160 -> 38:11.480] dramatic than others. They used to say that every time you had a
[38:11.480 -> 38:14.820] kid, you lose a few tenths. I don't think that's necessarily
[38:14.820 -> 38:15.160] true.
[38:15.200 -> 38:16.400] I can believe that.
[38:17.560 -> 38:22.260] Well, yeah, I think there's an element of truth in that, because
[38:22.260 -> 38:24.900] you have things that become more important in your life and you
[38:24.900 -> 38:25.340] become less
[38:25.340 -> 38:29.100] dedicated. I'm not saying that's the case with Alonzo, but what
[38:29.100 -> 38:33.380] I'm saying is that I think people will look at Alonzo's age
[38:33.500 -> 38:36.300] and they will look at what he's achieving with that car. They
[38:36.300 -> 38:40.140] look at the fact that Lance Stroll is not a good guide as to
[38:40.140 -> 38:44.540] how quick that car is. And they will wonder what would Charles
[38:44.540 -> 38:45.600] Leclerc do in this car?
[38:46.100 -> 38:48.380] It's just natural that they would ask that question.
[38:48.800 -> 38:50.980] Now, can they put Charles Leclerc in that car?
[38:50.980 -> 38:51.880] No, they can't.
[38:52.040 -> 38:58.020] But at some point they might say, well, you know, if you look at, you know, the
[38:58.020 -> 39:02.600] chances are that a younger guy is going to be faster than an older guy.
[39:02.600 -> 39:11.840] And then they'll do, and this is what engineers do, they'll look at the records and they'll say, well, Esteban scored more points,
[39:11.840 -> 39:19.680] Esteban Ocon scored more points than Alonso at Alpi, and Esteban Ocon didn't match Sergio Perez
[39:19.680 -> 39:24.720] at Force India. Now, this doesn't take into account the fact that times change, people develop,
[39:24.720 -> 39:27.400] and all the rest of this stuff. These are just the numbers that exist.
[39:27.400 -> 39:33.460] Can I kind of do a small counter in there? It's just being invested as I am with my co-host
[39:33.460 -> 39:38.800] being a massive Esteban Ocon fan. So with him touting the points all the time, you know,
[39:38.800 -> 39:44.800] I was paying close attention to the actual race performances and the lap times and race
[39:44.800 -> 39:46.920] pace. And I still got the feeling like
[39:46.920 -> 39:52.640] Alonso was still the better driver out of those two, the faster Sunday driver out of those two.
[39:52.640 -> 39:56.400] Yeah maybe, but he didn't score more points. You know this is what the way...
[39:56.400 -> 39:57.720] DNFs?
[39:57.720 -> 40:03.400] Well listen, you can qualify on pole position by half a second but if you can't do two laps in a
[40:03.400 -> 40:06.440] row without crashing you're no good to anybody.
[40:06.440 -> 40:08.560] You had some mechanical faults.
[40:08.560 -> 40:11.200] Just heading off emails, he did have some mechanical DNFs.
[40:11.200 -> 40:13.480] Yes, he did have some mechanical DNFs.
[40:13.480 -> 40:18.560] And I'm sure that if you look into it in any great detail, you can make a wonderful justification
[40:18.560 -> 40:20.920] for how Fernando Alonso is better than Esteban Ocon.
[40:20.920 -> 40:23.680] But at the end of the day, he wasn't.
[40:23.680 -> 40:26.240] And that is written on paper. It is written
[40:26.240 -> 40:30.960] in virtual paper. It is written there in the world championship results. Now, whether it's right,
[40:30.960 -> 40:36.320] whether it's wrong, it doesn't matter. It's there. It exists. And that's what people do.
[40:36.320 -> 40:43.760] They judge on what is their fact, not fiction. And he kept his nose in at Spa and let Hamilton
[40:43.760 -> 40:46.080] take him out. Hamilton's fault, but I guarantee you, Alonso doesn't keep his nose in at Spa and let Hamilton take him out. Hamilton's fault,
[40:46.080 -> 40:50.160] but I guarantee you Alonso doesn't keep his nose in if that was anyone other but Hamilton
[40:50.160 -> 41:00.040] at Spa last year. Well, maybe. Maybe Fernando is becoming wise in his old age. He let Lance
[41:00.040 -> 41:04.560] finish ahead of him the other day in Spain, didn't he? Unless he was just tired and that
[41:04.560 -> 41:05.360] was just a good way to say it.
[41:05.360 -> 41:09.440] No, he wasn't tired. He could easily have got him, I'm pretty sure. And he was just smart enough to
[41:09.440 -> 41:17.840] realize that the paycheck that he enjoys enormous amounts of is better served by him finishing just
[41:17.840 -> 41:22.000] behind his teammate in that particular occasion and saying nice things about him on all other
[41:22.000 -> 41:29.200] occasions, because it's very clear that Arnstroh's necessary and Alonso's just saying it because his dad's the team boss.
[41:29.840 -> 41:34.960] For the record, I bet that Alonso's still quite fast and good.
[41:34.960 -> 41:38.960] Yeah, so do I. I think he is too, but I'm just telling you what
[41:38.960 -> 41:42.080] engineers being pragmatic souls will be saying. That's what I'm saying.
[41:42.720 -> 41:45.480] I'm not saying Fernando's finished.
[41:48.720 -> 41:51.600] And I'm sure that in translation, I've been abused by a few Spaniards in the last couple of weeks after writing this, because they haven't fully
[41:51.600 -> 41:55.880] understood what I wrote, you know, it's just, it's just the way of the world.
[41:56.280 -> 41:59.080] Cause Google translate doesn't deal with subtlety awfully well.
[41:59.680 -> 41:59.960] Hmm.
[42:00.080 -> 42:01.800] Fernando Alonso fans.
[42:01.960 -> 42:03.160] They, they do defend.
[42:03.280 -> 42:03.880] They go hard.
[42:04.640 -> 42:08.080] They do. They do. But you know, I can go hard back too, I don't mind.
[42:08.800 -> 42:11.600] Don't fight all Fernando Alonso fans, be very tiring.
[42:11.600 -> 42:16.480] I don't fight anybody's fans, I'm just saying, you know, if you want to come and abuse me,
[42:17.040 -> 42:21.360] you can, but actually I don't like people abusing me, so I just chop them out,
[42:21.360 -> 42:24.240] you know, I block them on Twitter and stuff.
[42:24.240 -> 42:26.080] I thought that was going to be a plug for the show.
[42:26.080 -> 42:28.840] Like if you want to abuse me, you can by joining us live on
[42:28.840 -> 42:31.240] Missed Apex podcast, like and subscribe.
[42:31.240 -> 42:32.440] I'll leave you to do that.
[42:33.000 -> 42:35.960] You're far better at turning these things into, um, into
[42:36.000 -> 42:37.680] promotional opportunities than I am.
[42:38.520 -> 42:40.080] Tom Power has a question, Joe.
[42:40.080 -> 42:41.040] So let's get into it.
[42:41.560 -> 42:43.080] That's, that's what the TikTokers do.
[42:43.520 -> 42:45.040] They say the topic and then they say, let's get into it. So, okay. Veryers do. They say the topic and then they say let's
[42:45.040 -> 42:49.200] get into it. So okay, very good. So you're a positive TikToking influencer. Yeah, it makes
[42:49.200 -> 42:54.320] it seem young. Okay, Tom Power has a question. Let's get into it. Hi Joe, what would be your
[42:54.320 -> 42:58.800] preferred track for the sprint? And then you've already answered him on Twitter saying none of
[42:58.800 -> 43:07.840] them. Yeah, I hate sprint. You do? I don't think I've ever asked you. I don't like them because they are, what do they achieve?
[43:07.840 -> 43:13.200] If they happen at racetracks where you can't overtake, you're just giving somebody, you
[43:13.200 -> 43:16.680] just give the pole man an advantage.
[43:16.680 -> 43:19.760] It's not as bad as reversing the grids, but I just don't see the point.
[43:19.760 -> 43:24.680] I'd much rather have traditional, well effectively now as it doesn't impact on the grid, it doesn't
[43:24.680 -> 43:32.720] matter anymore. But last year it annoyed me. And I understand why they do it. You get more people
[43:32.720 -> 43:37.520] watching TV, etc., etc. It generates more money, blah, blah, blah. But I'm not a fan.
[43:38.480 -> 43:43.040] I'm not either. But they are determined to push it and they're determined to do it more.
[43:43.040 -> 43:47.920] It's obviously a sprint weekend here at the Austrian Grand Prix on Sunday as well.
[43:47.920 -> 43:52.960] So Saturday there will be a sprint race that scores its own points that is decided by a
[43:52.960 -> 43:58.320] qualifying session on Saturday morning, but is unrelated to the qualifying session on Friday
[43:58.320 -> 44:01.920] that will set the grid for Sunday. It's a bit much.
[44:01.920 -> 44:07.440] Yeah, it's very complicated. That's the first thing. Secondly, you get this situation about
[44:07.440 -> 44:13.520] have they really won a Formula One race? And the answer is no, they haven't. And I just,
[44:13.520 -> 44:19.920] you know, I understand the additional numbers. I understand that you want to build up something for
[44:19.920 -> 44:25.120] everybody all through the weekend. That's all fine, but I just don't like it.
[44:25.640 -> 44:27.960] I like it better than it setting the grid.
[44:28.000 -> 44:29.080] But yes, absolutely.
[44:29.080 -> 44:29.760] I agree with that.
[44:29.760 -> 44:32.600] So then I don't see the point because, you know, you have an
[44:32.600 -> 44:33.720] entirely separate race.
[44:33.720 -> 44:34.280] What's the point?
[44:34.480 -> 44:38.840] So we are Mistapex podcast and there'll be some footage coming out.
[44:38.880 -> 44:41.680] We are going to be, and I did invite Joe, we're going to be karting at
[44:41.680 -> 44:47.600] Brighton Karting this weekend and it's on a Saturday and I didn't realise it was a sprint weekend.
[44:47.600 -> 44:51.840] So I made sure to everyone, you know, I put out feelers, I said, would you miss our event
[44:51.840 -> 44:53.800] because there's a sprint weekend on?
[44:53.800 -> 44:56.360] And honestly, it was almost universal derision.
[44:56.360 -> 45:01.840] No, of course I wouldn't not come to something because of a sprint weekend, but you would
[45:01.840 -> 45:03.680] think about missing something for a Grand Prix.
[45:03.680 -> 45:07.200] So it definitely doesn't hold the same place in people's hearts, I don't think.
[45:07.760 -> 45:13.600] The other thing it does, which is not to be underestimated, is that it takes away time
[45:14.240 -> 45:20.880] for the teams to prepare. In other words, time they would normally spend doing preparation work
[45:20.880 -> 45:26.320] for the race, for the qualifying, is used up in other ways. Therefore, they are less well prepared.
[45:26.320 -> 45:28.880] Therefore, it will be less predictable.
[45:29.680 -> 45:34.000] So this is part of the thinking of sprint racing, which is you just make for less
[45:34.000 -> 45:34.960] predictable weekends.
[45:34.960 -> 45:40.160] Like in Canada, we had rainfall, we had sessions going wrong, and therefore we had an
[45:40.160 -> 45:41.120] unpredictable grid.
[45:41.600 -> 45:44.560] We had Leclerc and Perez and these people way down.
[45:47.120 -> 45:52.400] And normally that wouldn't be the case. So we'll see what happens, but that's part of it anyway. And that's kind of
[45:52.400 -> 45:58.640] manipulation in my book. Yeah. To me, we were following it as a crew and I think everyone just
[45:58.640 -> 46:08.320] had this feeling that the weekend had been diluted, to be honest. And by the time you got to Sunday, you'd almost had enough. You'd go, I don't know. Maybe they count.
[46:08.320 -> 46:13.040] And maybe it makes life as a journalist more complicated too, I have to say.
[46:13.040 -> 46:16.560] It's not special. I just want things the way they've always been. Hey Joe,
[46:16.560 -> 46:22.000] 50 minutes in. Time has flown and you've got quite a few questions left. So why don't we
[46:22.880 -> 46:25.840] rat-a-tat through them a little bit more quick-fire.
[46:25.840 -> 46:31.840] Let's see, Lee Broxham says, Drokovic versus whoever wins Formula 2,
[46:31.840 -> 46:36.480] who has the more chance of an F1 seat next year? Do you follow the Junior Series very closely?
[46:36.480 -> 46:46.720] Yeah, I do. I do. And I think that Drogovic is far more likely. Simple as that. Yeah, because it's more preparation time.
[46:46.760 -> 46:51.680] You know, Dragovic has proved, and he's sat around through a series of
[46:51.680 -> 46:55.360] Grand Prix weekends, learning how to do it, how teams operate.
[46:55.520 -> 46:56.560] He's tested the car.
[46:56.560 -> 46:57.920] He's been in the simulator a lot.
[46:58.520 -> 47:00.480] He's better prepared than the guys in Formula 2.
[47:01.080 -> 47:05.360] Added to which the guys in Formula 2 this year, not overly excited by them.
[47:05.920 -> 47:06.320] Fair enough.
[47:06.360 -> 47:10.720] And when's the last time we saw like the Formula Two champ just jump into an F1 seat?
[47:11.280 -> 47:12.920] It doesn't seem to happen all that often.
[47:12.920 -> 47:14.480] Well, it happened with Schumacher.
[47:15.800 -> 47:16.920] Oh yes, Russell.
[47:16.920 -> 47:18.720] Which was not necessarily a good idea.
[47:19.480 -> 47:20.360] It happened with George.
[47:20.680 -> 47:23.480] And you go back, I mean, the good ones do come through.
[47:23.640 -> 47:24.400] Charles, I think.
[47:24.960 -> 47:25.320] Or was Charles the champion? I can't remember. I think he was, I mean, the good ones do come through. Charles, I think. Or
[47:25.320 -> 47:30.600] was Charles the champion? I can't remember. I think he was. I can't remember. Anyway,
[47:30.600 -> 47:35.520] so yeah, I mean, the best ones will come through. And then sometimes they won't. The other thing
[47:35.520 -> 47:40.880] about Formula Two is there's always occasional questions about the engines, which I don't
[47:40.880 -> 47:44.680] like at all. Some engines seem to be better than others.
[47:44.680 -> 47:45.520] I do always wonder how much of a spec series the spec series is. Some engines seem to be better than others.
[47:49.600 -> 47:54.000] I do always wonder how much of a spec series the spec series is. You only have to go rental car. A spec series can never be a spec series because you cannot have things that are perfectly balanced.
[47:54.000 -> 47:56.240] You just can't. That's not the way it is.
[47:56.240 -> 48:00.720] No, and if you've ever driven in any rental car series, there's always a rocket ship and
[48:00.720 -> 48:09.920] there's always a couple of duds. So all you can hope for is the kind of excellent kart parity you'll get at Brighton Karting. Go and check out Q Leisure's Brighton Karting
[48:09.920 -> 48:16.080] where Missed Apex podcast will be attending in a 42 driver series of 12 sprint races.
[48:16.080 -> 48:19.360] Brighton Karting, get your race on. You don't...
[48:19.360 -> 48:19.920] You finished?
[48:19.920 -> 48:20.720] Yeah, I finished.
[48:22.480 -> 48:23.280] What happens next?
[48:23.280 -> 48:29.280] Oh, I ask a question. So this could be a fun question. Okay, this is from Matt, who says,
[48:29.280 -> 48:35.360] which F1 driver or other F1 personality, current or historic, do you wish you could interview for
[48:35.360 -> 48:41.680] an hour after a shot of truth serum? But we have to be careful because this question could also be
[48:42.240 -> 48:48.400] which F1 driver or other personality do you feel has lied through their teeth to you and you'd love to get the truth
[48:48.400 -> 48:55.000] out of? Michael Schumacher. Oh was he a bit cagey? Cagey was his middle name.
[48:55.000 -> 49:01.560] Was it? Yeah. No Michael Schumacher never gave away anything at all ever so yeah
[49:01.560 -> 49:06.800] I'd like to talk to him. I always thought it'd be entertaining to find out the
[49:06.800 -> 49:11.840] truth. So was it? Because I think there's a good guy and a bad guy in Michael Schumacher, which is,
[49:11.840 -> 49:18.000] you know, I'm giving him a lot more benefit than a lot of people would. But, you know, he proved
[49:18.000 -> 49:22.240] the bad guy a lot, but I think there was a lot of good guy in him too. And I'd like to find the
[49:22.240 -> 49:31.040] balance between the two. It's impossible now, of course, but you know, you ask a rhetorical, not rhetorical even, a theoretical question.
[49:31.040 -> 49:33.040] And so I've replied in a theoretical sense.
[49:33.040 -> 49:37.080] What do we, what would you speculate that you'd have got out of him? Because like, if
[49:37.080 -> 49:38.080] you look at his, you know.
[49:38.080 -> 49:39.080] The good guy.
[49:39.080 -> 49:41.200] Is that what you think? The good guy would come out.
[49:41.200 -> 49:45.200] Yeah, yeah. I'm usually very good at finding good guys and people.
[49:52.480 -> 49:58.400] I mean, that's in my experience with interviewing people over periods of time. I'm much better at finding good guys than I am at finding bad guys. So you have to have somebody willing to open up.
[49:59.040 -> 50:07.520] A lot of people are defensive out in public and then that makes them come across as a bit more aggressive and a bit more difficult, when
[50:07.520 -> 50:09.400] really all they're doing is just guarding themselves.
[50:09.640 -> 50:13.600] They have to trust you. That's the point. They have to trust
[50:13.600 -> 50:16.560] that you won't twist their words into something. And that takes
[50:16.560 -> 50:20.800] time to achieve. So, you know, building trust is a difficult
[50:20.800 -> 50:24.160] thing to do. And it takes time. And what happens nowadays, is
[50:24.160 -> 50:26.720] that there's very little time you get with people
[50:26.820 -> 50:30.320] to build the trust. So it becomes more difficult. And you
[50:30.320 -> 50:34.080] then you have more and more people fabricating stories,
[50:34.080 -> 50:36.120] twisting things, doing all these kind of thing that makes them
[50:36.120 -> 50:40.600] more defensive. So, you know, it's a very difficult balance to
[50:40.600 -> 50:49.040] find. But when people say the media as one solid group, it's not one solid group.
[50:49.040 -> 50:55.200] It's a rainbow from raving lunatics and fantasists on the one hand to devious, nasty people on the
[50:55.200 -> 50:59.120] other. And somewhere in the middle, there are some people who actually do it because they're
[50:59.120 -> 51:04.240] trying to tell the story as it is. Yeah. So just you and Medland, just stick with that.
[51:04.320 -> 51:04.920] as it is. Yeah, so just you and Medland, just stick with that.
[51:05.360 -> 51:05.400] There you go.
[51:07.280 -> 51:10.160] Well, there are more than just me and Medland. But, you know, yes, in principle, there are two.
[51:10.880 -> 51:13.400] There's a little core of people in the middle who are
[51:15.320 -> 51:18.360] trying to tell the story as it is, not twisting everything into knots.
[51:18.400 -> 51:20.960] Who is your favourite other F1 journalist?
[51:21.480 -> 51:24.720] That is a leading question in which I am not going to reply.
[51:24.760 -> 51:25.920] Oh, OK. Who do you hate? No, I am not going to reply. Aw, okay,
[51:25.920 -> 51:30.720] who do you hate? No, I'm not going to reply to that one either, although there are a number of
[51:30.720 -> 51:38.240] people who would qualify. Don't worry, I know. I'll tweet it later, he's told me already. Right,
[51:38.240 -> 51:46.100] so Paul Gittens says, oh this is good. Any rumours on who is the most advanced or furthest behind
[51:46.100 -> 51:51.680] in the 2026 engine development? It seems a long way away, but time flies. It's going
[51:51.680 -> 51:57.320] to be the next kind of big development to hit us and surprises, isn't it, 2026?
[51:57.320 -> 52:02.920] Yeah, I don't think there's any indication at all as yet as to where things are. There's
[52:02.920 -> 52:06.600] rumours, of course. There are rumours that Audi's not doing very are. There's rumors, of course. There are rumors that Audi is not doing very well.
[52:06.600 -> 52:08.360] There's rumors that Honda aren't doing very well.
[52:08.360 -> 52:09.640] There's rumors, all kinds of stuff.
[52:09.640 -> 52:14.080] But, well, yeah, there's no budget with the Honda thing.
[52:14.520 -> 52:20.540] They're starting from absolutely the lowest possible case because all the
[52:20.720 -> 52:24.100] original crew who built the Red Bull engines have all disappeared off doing
[52:24.100 -> 52:24.620] other things.
[52:25.160 -> 52:27.620] So you have to start again.
[52:28.240 -> 52:32.660] And I mean, Honda has a habit of taking out all the best engineers and bringing in a bunch
[52:32.660 -> 52:38.140] of new ones because it's for them Formula One is about teaching their engineers how to
[52:38.140 -> 52:40.060] work quickly and cleverly.
[52:40.620 -> 52:45.720] It's a learning exercise, which means that they often handicap themselves by moving the
[52:45.720 -> 52:51.000] good guys on before the good guys can get to full fruition.
[52:51.000 -> 52:52.000] That's really interesting.
[52:52.000 -> 52:53.780] That is a really interesting insight.
[52:53.780 -> 52:59.640] So in a way, is Red Bull powertrains more of the old Honda than the new Honda will be?
[52:59.640 -> 53:01.800] No, not at all.
[53:01.800 -> 53:05.120] Because I'm sure they're starting from a completely blank sheet of paper and they've
[53:05.120 -> 53:07.280] got all kinds of people coming in from different places.
[53:07.280 -> 53:15.220] So you know, I saw somewhere that some Mercedes, some Ferrari people are joining Mercedes soon.
[53:15.220 -> 53:18.760] A lot of Mercedes people have gone off to work at Red Bull.
[53:18.760 -> 53:21.760] Some have gone off to work here, there, everywhere.
[53:21.760 -> 53:25.520] So people are moving around, they've got to get everything settled down, and then
[53:25.520 -> 53:30.080] they've got to work on the regulations that exist, and they've got to make it all work
[53:30.080 -> 53:33.840] with sustainable fuel. So, you know, there's lots of questions and I don't think anyone
[53:33.840 -> 53:40.960] can really say with any sense of reality that we have anybody ahead or behind.
[53:40.960 -> 53:45.360] Oh, okay. In any case, it was interesting to explore your views on those
[53:45.360 -> 53:51.840] various engine manufacturers. Let's see, Christopher Fonseca would like to ask about Ferrari. So what
[53:51.840 -> 53:58.400] do you think the Ferrari team in 2024 will look like? Am I right in thinking that both Charles
[53:58.400 -> 54:06.160] and Carlos would like to jump ship? I don't know if that's fair or not. They're not delivering the
[54:06.160 -> 54:10.560] goods. They haven't delivered the goods for years. Do they
[54:10.560 -> 54:14.600] want to jump ship? If somebody came along and offered them, if
[54:14.600 -> 54:18.160] someone sensible came along and offered them the earth, just
[54:18.160 -> 54:22.960] assume that us and Martin decided that they wanted to
[54:22.960 -> 54:25.640] hire Charles de Clare, just hypothetically speaking.
[54:26.200 -> 54:31.200] And you're Charles de Cleyre, and you've been having a really frustrating time for years and
[54:31.200 -> 54:34.080] years at Ferrari.
[54:34.920 -> 54:41.400] And if Aston Martin were willing to pay you more, negotiate your contract out for you, and give you
[54:41.920 -> 54:45.680] a car that's probably going to be better than the Ferrari next year.
[54:46.620 -> 54:47.560] Would you not take it?
[54:52.200 -> 54:54.840] I don't know in terms of anything like that would happen, but I'm just saying in a theoretical world that could happen.
[54:55.240 -> 55:03.400] And Carlos to a lesser or greater extent, because Carlos is still not quite on the
[55:03.400 -> 55:05.760] same pace as Charles, I don't think.
[55:06.280 -> 55:07.960] He can be, but not all the time.
[55:07.960 -> 55:09.320] Charles has got this little bit of extra.
[55:09.880 -> 55:14.480] So, you know, the chances are they'll stay where they are and be frustrated for longer.
[55:15.040 -> 55:17.960] Is Ferrari going to get out of the mess they're in?
[55:18.840 -> 55:19.800] That's another question.
[55:20.600 -> 55:21.760] You can probably guess though.
[55:22.960 -> 55:28.160] Well, based on the last 15 years, I think it's fair to say that the chances of them
[55:28.160 -> 55:30.440] winning the World Championship are low.
[55:30.440 -> 55:32.800] And look, am I reading this right?
[55:32.800 -> 55:38.160] Because I always say about Ferrari, I'm always having an argument with Ferrari fans pre-season,
[55:38.160 -> 55:43.200] they look at testing and they go, it's this year, Ferrari, and they might even look promising
[55:43.200 -> 55:45.800] on the first few weekends, like they've done
[55:45.800 -> 55:51.040] for a lot of times over the last 10 years, and then they just disappear in the season.
[55:51.040 -> 55:55.380] Is it just the philosophy, like they can't develop or do they actively start getting
[55:55.380 -> 55:59.880] things wrong through a season? But every season at the start, Ferrari fans massively get their
[55:59.880 -> 56:00.880] hopes up.
[56:00.880 -> 56:08.320] I think that's the nature of being a Ferrari fan. You are just wildly optimistic beyond reality.
[56:08.320 -> 56:09.760] Oh, okay.
[56:09.760 -> 56:12.680] So we just tied them all with that brush.
[56:12.680 -> 56:20.240] If you look back, there was the Jean Tod era where he basically removed Ferrari from the
[56:20.240 -> 56:26.080] crucible in which it sits, or the cooking pot. And he put it inside a pot inside the cooking pot
[56:26.080 -> 56:30.640] and protected it from the outside a little bit. And then they, over time, and it took them a long
[56:30.640 -> 56:35.200] time, you know, they, they then began to win races because the team was confident in itself.
[56:35.200 -> 56:40.080] It didn't have all the extraneous influences, didn't have somebody who was firing people left,
[56:40.080 -> 56:45.760] right, and center. You only got fired if you really did something really bad. And that's what
[56:45.760 -> 56:50.960] you need. You need stability. And I think the problem at Ferrari at the moment is that nobody's
[56:50.960 -> 56:57.440] really quite certain what's going on in the higher echelons of the company. Fred Vassa is there
[56:57.440 -> 57:01.600] running it and saying he's in charge, but we all know that that's not strictly the case because if
[57:03.520 -> 57:07.760] Vigna or Elkon can decide something else, then it's something
[57:07.760 -> 57:12.240] else, isn't it? Mike Stoner in the live chat is encouraging Ferrari fans saying,
[57:12.240 -> 57:16.800] don't jump ship, Ferrari will definitely come good next year. Yeah, definitely. Yeah,
[57:16.800 -> 57:21.680] I'm with you, Mike. Mike, that is so cruel. And you're getting lots of lovely comments in there.
[57:21.680 -> 57:25.400] Tom says, Joe sure is a no BS kind of guy and
[57:25.400 -> 57:29.240] then lots of people speculating correctly or incorrectly about
[57:29.240 -> 57:34.520] journalists that you like or don't like. They can speculate away. Okay, like I said
[57:34.520 -> 57:40.080] I'll tweet it later don't worry. I am not denying or
[57:40.080 -> 57:44.960] conferring, or denying, I'm not doing either. Let's see where should we go? A
[57:44.960 -> 57:45.000] couple more questions for you Joe if you've got the time to hang with us. Confirming, yeah. Commending or denying, I'm not doing either. Let's see, where should we go?
[57:45.000 -> 57:48.360] A couple more questions for you, Joe, if you've got the time to hang with us.
[57:48.360 -> 57:53.040] Ronald says, do you see a way for McLaren to the top in their current setup as a team
[57:53.040 -> 57:54.520] with a customer engine?
[57:54.520 -> 57:56.240] If not, what should Norris do?
[57:56.240 -> 58:00.360] Well, I don't see them getting to the top because you can't get to the top with a customer
[58:00.360 -> 58:01.440] engine.
[58:01.440 -> 58:09.600] And I see them getting a manufacturer engine deal. I think they'd like to get one. And obviously, GM would be
[58:09.600 -> 58:12.900] a nice thing for them to go after. But is that going to
[58:12.900 -> 58:17.360] happen? I don't know. I'm not sure I can see that happening.
[58:17.400 -> 58:21.800] Do they have the necessary? We'll have to see. And is it a
[58:21.800 -> 58:24.280] good place for Lando to be? Well, that's a very good
[58:24.280 -> 58:26.640] question, too, because Lando's also got to
[58:26.640 -> 58:28.840] cope with Piastri, who's very good.
[58:29.440 -> 58:34.200] And so he might think if there's a better option higher up the grid,
[58:34.680 -> 58:38.400] that he might want to go and look at that if somebody wants him.
[58:39.320 -> 58:41.960] It's this thing of you can't win it with a customer engine.
[58:42.040 -> 58:45.400] It's fine, but you can be Aston Martin and look way better than McLaren with a customer engine, it's fine, but you can be Aston Martin and
[58:45.400 -> 58:49.440] look way better than McLaren with a customer engine. It's not the customer engine holding
[58:49.440 -> 58:50.440] them back.
[58:50.440 -> 58:52.960] But they're not looking better than Mercedes now, are they? They were.
[58:52.960 -> 58:58.880] But McLaren have been bottom end for a majority of the last 10 years. They can't keep blaming
[58:58.880 -> 59:00.680] that on a Mercedes engine.
[59:00.680 -> 59:06.240] No, but look, in the history of Formula One, before the Braun team came along with that
[59:06.240 -> 59:14.160] particularly strange glitch, the number of customer engines after the Cosworth era that won races is,
[59:14.160 -> 59:20.000] you can count it on one hand, you can absolutely count it on one hand. AlphaTauri won one with
[59:20.000 -> 59:26.880] Vettel. And I think it was still Alpha, it was Taur Toro Rosso wasn't it, that won with Gasly,
[59:27.680 -> 59:32.960] but otherwise it just doesn't happen. And you know, it's all very well to say, well,
[59:32.960 -> 59:37.760] it did happen in the past. Well, that 2009 is nearly 15 years ago now.
[59:37.760 -> 59:41.120] Riccardo Monza 2020.
[59:41.120 -> 59:46.360] Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, he did win that one. Well, that's only because the others messed up, isn't it?
[59:46.360 -> 59:48.400] Yeah, but like you said earlier, Joe, the stats.
[59:48.400 -> 59:50.680] Yeah, but they're not going to win world championships doing that.
[59:50.680 -> 59:55.000] My point is you can mess up one weekend and somebody can come through and win, but you're
[59:55.000 -> 59:59.000] not going to mess up the whole season and win a world championship, except in the case
[59:59.000 -> 01:00:02.400] of Braun, where that was a massive cock-up.
[01:00:02.400 -> 01:00:07.120] So if we drop in a GM engine as good as the Mercedes one into the McLaren, it's
[01:00:07.120 -> 01:00:08.440] not going to change anything though, is it?
[01:00:08.480 -> 01:00:12.600] Cause they just, they still, they've not got the car package to get, to get up there.
[01:00:12.600 -> 01:00:14.120] I don't think the engine's going to change it.
[01:00:14.680 -> 01:00:15.720] Well, we don't know, do we?
[01:00:16.040 -> 01:00:18.920] We don't know any of that because if you hire the right people, then
[01:00:18.920 -> 01:00:22.200] your chassis will get better and you get the right engine, then your
[01:00:22.200 -> 01:00:28.000] engine will get better and you put the two together and it all works. And you don't mess it up and then you can win. So they just need...
[01:00:28.000 -> 01:00:32.800] There's an awful lot of ifs in there. I was going to say, so they just need like a much better car
[01:00:32.800 -> 01:00:38.400] design and a brand new engine manufacturer to come in with a banging engine and then they're all over
[01:00:38.400 -> 01:00:43.040] it. I think you're right. And plenty of money to run it. Yeah, and loads of money. Money's brilliant
[01:00:43.040 -> 01:00:51.200] isn't it? You can do loads of stuff with money. All right. Michael, Michael, I watch TV shows, that's all. Michael Holler,
[01:00:51.200 -> 01:00:55.760] and let's make this the last one then. Joe, Pirelli versus Bridgestone.
[01:00:56.320 -> 01:01:03.440] Might be Firestone. Oh, yeah. Why? If I was Bridgestone, and I looked at my sales figures,
[01:01:06.560 -> 01:01:10.860] If I was Bridgestone and I looked at my sales figures, they sell most of their tires in North America and their brand is Firestone over there.
[01:01:10.860 -> 01:01:15.660] So I think, and that would suit Formula One, Formula One would really like to have an American
[01:01:15.660 -> 01:01:19.800] tire company, or even if it's disguised as a Japanese company disguised.
[01:01:19.800 -> 01:01:20.800] I don't know, we'll see.
[01:01:20.800 -> 01:01:27.560] At the end of the day, it's down to money. And a little bit down to what the technical capabilities of the tire
[01:01:27.560 -> 01:01:31.040] companies are, but fundamentally most tire companies can do what they're
[01:01:31.040 -> 01:01:37.420] asked to do and design tires that do what the racers want or not, as the
[01:01:37.420 -> 01:01:39.520] case may be, do what the governing body wants.
[01:01:40.920 -> 01:01:46.640] But I think that if Bridgestone made an offer to the Formula One group saying,
[01:01:46.640 -> 01:01:54.720] we'd like to come with Firestone, that's very American and very kind of in the future tradition
[01:01:54.720 -> 01:01:58.400] of Formula One, I can see them going down that path.
[01:01:58.960 -> 01:02:03.120] Excellent. Thank you so much for your time, Joe. Thank you, Live Chat, for staying with us. If you
[01:02:03.120 -> 01:02:08.720] want to help fuel Joe's journeys around the world, you can drop in your appreciation in the Super Chat in
[01:02:08.720 -> 01:02:14.080] YouTube or you can support me at patreon.com forward slash missed apex. Enjoy Austria,
[01:02:14.080 -> 01:02:15.280] Joe. Bring an umbrella.
[01:02:15.280 -> 01:02:19.840] Well, yeah, you could also read all my stuff and send me money in the post. That's always
[01:02:19.840 -> 01:02:24.040] a good plan. If we're doing the old raising cash routine.
[01:02:24.040 -> 01:02:29.600] Yeah, let's put links to all your stuff in the show notes, guys. So go and scroll left,
[01:02:29.600 -> 01:02:31.920] right, up or down on the device you're watching this on.
[01:02:31.920 -> 01:02:36.800] And let me just point out at this moment in time that that Alpine sale thing, which just
[01:02:36.800 -> 01:02:42.480] went through this week, first appeared in the JSBM newsletter. And Spanners can relate to this
[01:02:42.480 -> 01:02:43.840] because he gets a free copy.
[01:02:43.840 -> 01:02:45.480] I do, mates rates of zero.
[01:02:46.560 -> 01:02:49.200] And that was in about,
[01:02:49.200 -> 01:02:50.040] yeah, it was, yeah.
[01:02:50.040 -> 01:02:51.240] Would have been about January or February,
[01:02:51.240 -> 01:02:52.760] I first mentioned that was gonna happen.
[01:02:52.760 -> 01:02:56.600] It does make me feel slightly cleverer and plugged in.
[01:02:56.600 -> 01:03:00.480] So that's a good one, the JSBM newsletter.
[01:03:00.480 -> 01:03:03.000] But my favourite is your green notebook, Joe,
[01:03:03.000 -> 01:03:04.200] that's my favourite, the blog.
[01:03:04.200 -> 01:03:07.520] Yes, well, parts of the JSBMM newsletter appear in the Green Notebook.
[01:03:07.520 -> 01:03:08.520] Ah, there you go.
[01:03:08.520 -> 01:03:11.800] Anyway, that's all about travelling the world, isn't it?
[01:03:11.800 -> 01:03:14.560] And follow Joe at Joe Sayward on Twitter.
[01:03:14.560 -> 01:03:19.880] Guys, we will see you on Sunday, and I'll be sounding a lot croakier after our trip
[01:03:19.880 -> 01:03:23.800] to Brighton Karting, and look out for the video that will show you the events that we
[01:03:23.800 -> 01:03:27.920] had there and make you feel like you've missed out and you will have done but don't worry we're going to be
[01:03:27.920 -> 01:03:34.800] organizing some more karting in around August or early September until then until Sunday work hard
[01:03:34.800 -> 01:04:15.720] be kind and have fun this was Missed Apex Podcast Are we done?
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