Inside F1 with Joe Saward: September 12th 2023

Spanners is Joined by veteran F1 Journalist Joe Saward.

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https://missedapexpodcast.com/joe/a-virtual-audience-with-joe-monday-18th-september-8pm-uk-timebst

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## **Missed Apex Podcast Episode Transcript Summary**


### **Introduction**

* Joe Saward, veteran F1 journalist, joins Spanners for a virtual audience Q&A session.
* Tickets for the next virtual live audience are available on the Missed Apex Podcast website.
* Joe's publications can be found at www.flatoutpublishing.com.


### **Historical Context of Formula One**

* The first Grand Prix was held in 1906 at Le Mans, France, and was won by Ferenc Ziz on a Renault.
* The first World Championship Grand Prix was held in 1950, with many Grand Prix races preceding it.
* Joe Saward has attended every Grand Prix since 1949, making him a highly respected and knowledgeable historian of the sport.


### **Challenges of Flyaway Races**

* Flyaway races, held in distant countries, pose challenges for teams and personnel due to time zone changes, disrupted sleep patterns, and limited access to local cuisine.
* Joe Saward shares his experiences with the demanding travel and work schedule during these races.


### **Insights into the Formula One World**

* Kimi Raikkonen's famous quote, "I've seen airports and racetracks," reflects the limited exposure to local culture that drivers often experience.
* Joe Saward emphasizes the importance of building relationships and gathering information behind the scenes to gain a deeper understanding of the sport.
* The JSBM newsletter provides exclusive insights into Formula One news and developments, including recent driver and team changes.


### **Alpine's Uncertain Future**

* Following the departure of Otmar Szafnauer, Alpine has undergone significant changes in leadership and team structure.
* Joe Saward expresses concerns about the lack of a clear direction and leadership within the team.
* Alpine's engine issues and tensions between the French and British divisions are seen as obstacles to the team's success.
* The appointment of Luca de Meo as Renault's CEO has led to a series of changes within Alpine, including the departure of key personnel.
* Joe Saward emphasizes the challenges of running a Formula One team, particularly for manufacturers who often struggle to adapt to the unique demands of the sport.


### **Sustainable Fuels in Formula One**

* Formula One's goal of becoming carbon neutral by 2030 includes the use of sustainable fuels from 2026 onwards.
* Joe Saward expresses skepticism about the scalability of sustainable fuels for the entire road network.
* The idea behind sustainable fuels is to recycle carbon rather than releasing new carbon into the atmosphere.
* Joe Saward acknowledges the complexity of the issue and the challenges in measuring the true carbon footprint of Formula One events.


### **James Vowles' Impact on Williams' Success**

* Mark Greenhowl asks about the role of James Vowles in Williams' recent resurgence.
* Joe Saward acknowledges Vowles' positive impact on the team, but cautions against attributing all of Williams' success to him.
* The team's overall improvement, including infrastructure upgrades and driver development, has contributed to their recent performances.


### **Conclusion**

* The podcast concludes with a reminder to send feedback and questions to mistapex.net or spanners@mistapex.net.
* Joe Saward's passion for Formula One and his extensive knowledge make him a valuable resource for insights into the sport. **Summary of the Podcast Episode Transcript**

The podcast episode begins with the hosts discussing the recent improvements at Williams Racing under the leadership of James Vowles. They attribute the team's success to Vowles' ability to reinvigorate the team, implement better procedures, and attract talented personnel. They also highlight the exceptional performance of Alex Albon as a contributing factor to Williams' resurgence.

The conversation shifts to the topic of Sergio Perez's future at Red Bull Racing. The hosts discuss the public backlash Red Bull faced for their handling of the situation and speculate on the possibility of Perez leaving the team. They consider Lando Norris as a potential replacement for Perez, acknowledging Red Bull's interest in the McLaren driver. However, they also recognize the contractual challenges that Norris would face if he were to make such a move.

The hosts engage in a lively debate about Max Verstappen's dominance in Formula One and whether he has a clear advantage over other drivers. They discuss the idea of pairing Verstappen with a more competitive teammate, such as Norris, to create a more exciting and competitive dynamic within the team. They also delve into the psychological aspects of racing and the importance of maintaining confidence and composure under pressure.

The episode concludes with a discussion about Andretti Cadillac's potential entry into Formula One. The hosts express skepticism about the team's ability to succeed, citing their lack of experience in the sport and the challenges of building a competitive car and engine. They argue that Formula One needs to protect itself from the risk of an American team failing and suggest that Andretti Cadillac would be better served by partnering with an established team rather than starting their own.

Overall, the podcast episode provides insightful analysis and commentary on various topics related to Formula One, including team dynamics, driver performance, and the challenges facing new entrants to the sport. In this episode of Missed Apex, Spanners is joined by veteran F1 journalist Joe Saward for an insightful discussion on the current state of Formula One.

The conversation begins with the recent news of Michael Andretti's intention to enter Formula One as a team owner. Saward expresses skepticism about this endeavor, emphasizing the difficulties in establishing a new team in the sport. He suggests that buying an existing team might be a more viable option, citing the high costs and time required to build a team from scratch.

Saward also addresses the issue of Cadillac's involvement with Andretti's potential team. He clarifies that Cadillac will initially rebadge Alpine engines before eventually developing their own. However, he questions the logic behind this approach, considering the lead time required for engine development and the restrictions imposed by the regulations.

The discussion shifts to the possibility of other teams becoming available for purchase. Saward mentions McLaren, Williams, Alfa Tauri, and Aston Martin as potential candidates, highlighting the uncertainties surrounding their current situations. He emphasizes the importance of patience and waiting for the right opportunity to arise.

Saward also touches upon the Aston Martin situation, expressing doubt about Lawrence Stroll's genuine passion for the team and suggesting that it might be more about financial considerations. He raises questions about Lance Stroll's ability to perform in a top team.

The conversation concludes with Saward promoting his publications, including his post-race travel log, GP Plus magazine, and TSPM newsletter. He invites listeners to join a virtual live audience session with him and Spanners, where they can ask questions and engage in discussions about Formula One.

Overall, the podcast offers valuable insights into the complexities of team ownership in Formula One, highlighting the challenges faced by newcomers and the potential pitfalls to avoid. Saward's extensive knowledge and experience in the sport make this episode an informative and engaging listen for Formula One enthusiasts.

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[01:33.000 -> 01:36.000] You are listening to Missed Apex Podcast.
[01:36.000 -> 01:56.960] We live F1 with Joe Sayward and I am joined by
[01:56.960 -> 02:02.920] the man himself the man who's been to every Grand Prix since 1949 it's Joe
[02:02.920 -> 02:05.000] Sayward hello Uncle Joe. Hello it's been to every Grand Prix since 1949. It's Joe Sayword. Hello Uncle Joe.
[02:05.000 -> 02:09.000] Hello, I've been to every Grand Prix since 1949.
[02:09.000 -> 02:13.000] That would make me very old because I'd have to be born in about 1929
[02:13.000 -> 02:17.000] which means I'd be nearly 100. I have a vague suspicion that is incorrect.
[02:17.000 -> 02:20.000] I think you should go for it. I think you should shoot for 100.
[02:20.000 -> 02:26.400] It might be true of 1989, 40 years after that, which just about hangs in with where I am
[02:26.400 -> 02:27.400] age-wise.
[02:27.400 -> 02:28.400] So yes, that would work.
[02:28.400 -> 02:29.400] So 89, get it right.
[02:29.400 -> 02:31.880] In fact, 88 actually, Spenner's.
[02:31.880 -> 02:36.360] I thought the correct thing to have picked me up for there would have been that the first
[02:36.360 -> 02:38.920] Grand Prix wasn't until 1950.
[02:38.920 -> 02:39.920] Not true.
[02:39.920 -> 02:40.920] Isn't it?
[02:40.920 -> 02:42.520] Oh no, my Googling was wrong.
[02:42.520 -> 02:45.400] The first World Championship Grand Prix was not until 1950.
[02:45.400 -> 02:47.480] There were lots of Grand Prix's before then.
[02:47.480 -> 02:48.480] Oh really?
[02:48.480 -> 02:49.480] Okay, so how did...
[02:49.480 -> 02:50.480] Well, teach us...
[02:50.480 -> 02:52.240] 1906 being the first.
[02:52.240 -> 02:54.600] 1906, there was a Grand Prix, a grand prize.
[02:54.600 -> 02:55.600] Where was that?
[02:55.600 -> 02:56.600] Yes, there was.
[02:56.600 -> 02:59.560] The Grand Prix de l'Automobile Club de France, at Le Mans.
[02:59.560 -> 03:04.360] And it was won by Ferenc Ziz, a Hungarian Frenchman riding a Renault.
[03:04.360 -> 03:06.600] They used to say on Renault as
[03:06.600 -> 03:11.400] opposed to in a Renault in the old days because you were literally sitting on top of the machine.
[03:11.400 -> 03:19.240] So yes, it was Ferenc Ziz on Renault and it was a very, very long circuit to about 100
[03:19.240 -> 03:20.240] and something kilometres.
[03:20.240 -> 03:23.080] No wonder you're often described as an eminent historian, Joe.
[03:23.080 -> 03:26.120] Well, you've got to be described as something. It's better than some of the things you've often described as an eminent historian, Joe. Well, you've got to be described as something that's better than some of the things you've
[03:26.120 -> 03:28.160] been described as recently.
[03:28.160 -> 03:32.520] I'm coming under fire! I am coming under fire for our last episode, but it's fine, I'd rather
[03:32.520 -> 03:38.700] those people reveal themselves to me. But Joe, you're going to be in the fire of Singapore,
[03:38.700 -> 03:45.640] in the hot, in the dark, in the weird time zone. what is it like for you and the teams doing such a
[03:45.640 -> 03:51.120] kind of, you know, challenging on the body and mind flyaway race?
[03:51.120 -> 03:57.440] Well, it's different for all of us because some people go there and they live on European
[03:57.440 -> 04:02.520] time, which is fine if you can do it. It means you sort of go to bed at two o'clock in the
[04:02.520 -> 04:09.280] morning and you wake up at midday and then you have the race at sort of European time. However, people who travel
[04:09.280 -> 04:16.760] a lot tend to be very attuned to climate and change and light and things like that, because
[04:16.760 -> 04:21.540] we have to be. So it doesn't work for me, because the minute it gets light, I wake up.
[04:21.540 -> 04:26.080] So basically, I go to bed at about three o'clock in the morning and wake up at seven, which
[04:26.080 -> 04:31.560] means that Singapore is usually just a place where I get no sleep at all, or very little
[04:31.560 -> 04:35.400] sleep and you don't get to go out and eat dinner because you're at the racetrack.
[04:35.400 -> 04:39.220] So you live off ice creams and sandwiches, which they are provided for by the very nice
[04:39.220 -> 04:43.280] people at the Singapore Grand Prix, I should add, but you don't go and sort of get your
[04:43.280 -> 04:45.840] chopsticks out and
[04:45.840 -> 04:48.160] eat all those things that one eats in Singapore.
[04:48.160 -> 04:49.160] Well, that's it.
[04:49.160 -> 04:52.080] There was an interview with Kimi Raikkonen at a press conference when they said, oh,
[04:52.080 -> 04:55.480] you must be so well-travelled, you've seen the world, and he went, I've seen airports
[04:55.480 -> 04:56.520] and racetracks.
[04:56.520 -> 04:58.080] Is that your experience as well?
[04:58.080 -> 04:59.080] Yeah.
[04:59.080 -> 05:00.880] That is, well, up to a point it is, yeah.
[05:00.880 -> 05:06.400] It depends if you make time and it depends how old you are, what
[05:06.400 -> 05:10.720] your commitments are. Racing drivers have always got to go off and sell washing powder
[05:10.720 -> 05:17.440] or whatever it is they do. And when I was younger, I would stay out a long time between
[05:17.440 -> 05:20.720] races. I'd go away for 10 weeks at a time and I would just cruise around and I'd do
[05:20.720 -> 05:28.480] the tourism stuff in between. In those days, that was before the internet too, so you didn't have constant deadlines. It was like sort
[05:28.480 -> 05:32.000] of one deadline a week. So you'd do all your work and then you'd have the rest of
[05:32.000 -> 05:37.680] the week to mess about and prepare things and be a tourist. So it was a
[05:37.680 -> 05:44.160] lot, I wouldn't say easier in those days, but it was less intensive. I think
[05:44.160 -> 05:45.720] that's the best way of putting it. But again, we
[05:45.720 -> 05:51.900] didn't go to such exotic places, really. We only did about three or four. Yeah, three
[05:51.900 -> 05:58.820] or four flyaways a year. We do Canada, Japan, Australia, and sometimes the US. But we didn't
[05:58.820 -> 06:07.920] do anything much in Asia. We didn't do anything much in. We did Brazil, I suppose, sometimes even Argentina and Mexico.
[06:07.920 -> 06:13.960] I mean, things came in and went out, but generally speaking, it was a European championship,
[06:13.960 -> 06:18.560] 16 races with about 10 or 11 races in Europe.
[06:18.560 -> 06:24.120] So we didn't go to Sochi or Baku or anywhere like that, or China even, but I did go to
[06:24.120 -> 06:29.760] places like Macau and I went racing in New Zealand and stuff like that.
[06:29.760 -> 06:32.680] So I saw the world quite a lot when I was young.
[06:32.680 -> 06:35.360] Nowadays, it's true, you arrive, you leave.
[06:35.360 -> 06:40.000] I've seen an awful lot of Saudi Arabia, which is taxi to the circuit.
[06:40.000 -> 06:46.520] I'm sorry, taxi from the airport to the hotel. Airport going back again.
[06:46.520 -> 06:48.480] Hotel circuit four or five times.
[06:48.480 -> 06:50.600] I actually haven't seen anything of that.
[06:50.600 -> 06:56.200] Bahrain I know a little better because we had two races one time in Bahrain in the same
[06:56.200 -> 07:01.400] space and so I went touring around and drove around the island a bit and discovered all
[07:01.400 -> 07:05.200] kinds of exciting places, some of which I think were pretty unwise places to be.
[07:05.200 -> 07:08.400] But yeah, there you go. It'll be adventurous occasionally.
[07:08.400 -> 07:15.200] YOLO. Yeah, so yeah, when the odd opportunity has come up to like, do stuff with press people,
[07:15.200 -> 07:21.600] or like in an official capacity at the race, I've always kind of gone, hmm, you don't kind of get
[07:21.600 -> 07:25.200] almost, you don't get the full experience that you get at home.
[07:25.200 -> 07:30.160] You're shuffled into a place, then being sat in a press office doesn't always seem very
[07:30.160 -> 07:34.880] glamorous. In the olden days, the press office would have been some tables around a hay bale.
[07:34.880 -> 07:38.720] But what do you actually get to see at most of the races? When you first started, Joe,
[07:38.720 -> 07:41.120] it would have been trestle tables around a hay bale.
[07:41.680 -> 07:45.200] Not really, no. There were still, most of them had decent press
[07:45.200 -> 07:51.360] offices or a few ropey ones, a few tents. These days they tend to be permanent
[07:51.360 -> 07:55.720] structures, not all of them. We were in a tent somewhere recently, I can't remember where it was.
[07:55.720 -> 08:01.560] And what do I get to see? Well I don't sit around in the press office as much
[08:01.560 -> 08:08.240] as some people do because my job, as I see it anyway, is to go and talk to people and find out what's going on. So I spend most of my time walking
[08:08.240 -> 08:14.800] around the paddock, drinking too much coffee, and having sort of quiet chats behind the motorhomes,
[08:14.800 -> 08:19.920] and finding out what's really going on. And then towards the end of the weekend,
[08:19.920 -> 08:26.920] sort of Saturday night onwards, I'm stuck in the press office banging away on the computer or in the hotel banging away on the computer.
[08:26.920 -> 08:33.220] But basically, so people see me swanning around for two days, sort of having a nice life and
[08:33.220 -> 08:37.020] drinking coffee and they think, what a lazy person.
[08:37.020 -> 08:41.200] And then they don't see me at all for the next couple of days because I'm up to my neck
[08:41.200 -> 08:44.480] in producing the magazines that people like to buy.
[08:44.480 -> 08:45.400] Well, in buy. Yeah.
[08:45.400 -> 08:46.400] Well, in theory.
[08:46.400 -> 08:51.940] Yeah, some people go and buy GP Plus magazine you can buy.
[08:51.940 -> 08:53.800] So people want to ask you questions.
[08:53.800 -> 08:57.880] GP Plus and the JSBM newsletter, which of course, as you know, I was a big fan of the
[08:57.880 -> 08:58.880] JSBM newsletter.
[08:58.880 -> 08:59.880] I do like it.
[08:59.880 -> 09:00.880] Thanks Joe.
[09:00.880 -> 09:02.120] And you can tell the world how wonderful it is.
[09:02.120 -> 09:06.720] The JSBM newsletter is expensive, but it's designed for professionals really.
[09:06.720 -> 09:13.160] But you do get an insight into the things that are coming through the pipeline a little
[09:13.160 -> 09:15.080] bit earlier than they hit the broadsheets.
[09:15.080 -> 09:21.600] Well, like people who've signed deals that you don't know about 10 days after it happens.
[09:21.600 -> 09:27.100] I got most of the IndyCar stuff right the other day long before any of the American press did I hope you noticed that
[09:27.680 -> 09:32.500] But I'm struggling to get motivated to watch IndyCar if I'm honest
[09:32.500 -> 09:34.860] I think because it's the last thing me too
[09:34.860 -> 09:38.940] But I cover the news going on and if you read the newsletter correctly
[09:39.180 -> 09:41.860] Spanners you will have seen that I named all my other one
[09:41.860 -> 09:44.140] I got one of them wrong, but he changed his mind at the last minute
[09:45.280 -> 09:49.600] Which is fair enough. You can't get everything right. But I was very pleased with myself
[09:49.600 -> 09:53.200] because I had all the right people going to the right places. I even knew that Groves-On was
[09:53.200 -> 09:58.960] leaving Andretti's. And this was long before the Americans did it. So, you know, this is what I
[09:58.960 -> 10:03.600] tried to do. I tried to be ahead of the game. You're very good at that, Joe. Should we get
[10:03.600 -> 10:05.360] ahead of the listener questions?
[10:05.360 -> 10:11.800] I challenged the listeners to actually send a video question, to send their question in
[10:11.800 -> 10:16.160] the form of video. Now Uncle Steve isn't going to like the way I do this, but I'm going to
[10:16.160 -> 10:23.120] superimpose Toby Godfrey over your head so that at least the people at home will be able
[10:23.120 -> 10:30.400] to see him and hopefully you'll be able to hear this question Joe. Three questions Joe. Hi Spanners. Hi Toby. First of all
[10:31.120 -> 10:39.040] 2026 do you think any particular team will have the advantage given what is at stake that year,
[10:39.040 -> 10:43.040] what the regulations are going to be? I don't know how much we know about the regulations but it
[10:43.040 -> 10:49.200] looks to be more than... I didn't hear any of that. Oh did you? It was the first question. Oh I'm sorry, I thought you would
[10:49.200 -> 10:53.520] hear that through the magic of technology. He's asking does any particular team have an advantage
[10:53.520 -> 11:03.200] for 2026? It's impossible to answer that question really. I mean you have the same basic big teams
[11:03.200 -> 11:07.360] but I suppose you can say the ones who have their own engine
[11:07.360 -> 11:14.320] departments have the advantage because if they can build a good engine, they can get it to fit
[11:14.320 -> 11:19.360] with the car. But most teams, most of the big teams, they're all big teams to be honest nowadays.
[11:20.320 -> 11:31.000] There are very few what you'd call small teams. There's Haas and Sauber, I suppose, and Williams wants to be bigger, but most of the others
[11:31.000 -> 11:32.000] are becoming...
[11:32.000 -> 11:35.080] Now, they're becoming of the same kind of...
[11:35.080 -> 11:38.640] Well, they're not of the same kind of level yet, but they will do over time.
[11:38.640 -> 11:43.080] So it's very difficult to say who will come out ahead.
[11:43.080 -> 11:47.040] A bit like in 2014, we didn't really know who was going to come out ahead. A bit like in 2014 we didn't really know who was going
[11:47.040 -> 11:50.520] to come out ahead. Lewis Hamilton obviously figured it out. You made some
[11:50.520 -> 11:54.880] predictions Joe at the time, if I remember. Yeah I probably did but I
[11:54.880 -> 11:59.160] honestly don't remember what they were. You said that Lewis Hamilton was mad to
[11:59.160 -> 12:04.080] go to Mercedes. That's right I did, yes, and I thought he was at the time. But
[12:04.080 -> 12:07.800] there you are, you see, it just goes to prove that even experts get things wrong occasionally.
[12:07.800 -> 12:09.440] Or supposed experts, I should say.
[12:09.440 -> 12:13.120] It seems obvious now, but at the time, it wasn't obvious that that was going to be such
[12:13.120 -> 12:15.000] a blinding move.
[12:15.000 -> 12:16.000] Not at all.
[12:16.000 -> 12:20.400] No, it wasn't obvious at all, because they'd been a pretty poor bunt for...
[12:20.400 -> 12:25.680] In 2009, when they were brawn and they won the championship, that was terrific, but it
[12:25.680 -> 12:28.880] was always a bit of a sort of a, gosh, how did they do that?
[12:28.880 -> 12:32.040] Well, they had something that nobody else had and therefore they were quicker.
[12:32.040 -> 12:38.000] And then in 10, 11, 12, 13, they really weren't in the ball game at all.
[12:38.000 -> 12:40.320] And Red Bull were jumping up and down on them.
[12:40.320 -> 12:44.760] So when you get to 13 and you look ahead, you think, okay, who's going to come out ahead?
[12:44.760 -> 12:48.960] Well, Mercedes did because they built a pretty good it and they built very good chassis.
[12:49.520 -> 12:54.000] And until recently, that's what they were doing. Now they're still building very good engines, but
[12:54.000 -> 12:56.880] their chassis aren't quite as good for whatever reason that may be.
[12:57.520 -> 12:59.280] Sorry, Joe, I had to run away. My cat...
[12:59.280 -> 13:00.880] Not supposed to leave in the middle.
[13:00.880 -> 13:04.400] No, you didn't have to draw anyone's attention to that. I'd put you off screen,
[13:04.400 -> 13:09.440] but my cat had dragged the green screen from one side of the room to the other,
[13:09.440 -> 13:13.120] and nobody would have known if it wasn't for you, Joe. We've got some more questions.
[13:13.120 -> 13:17.640] Just wants to be a star, clearly, a cat that wants to be on telly. What can you do?
[13:17.640 -> 13:21.340] Since you can't hear Toby, I won't do the rest of his questions, but I'll make that
[13:21.340 -> 13:26.480] feature from now on that we can do video questions because I love the concept of that.
[13:26.480 -> 13:27.480] So let's see.
[13:27.480 -> 13:30.560] So long as no one wears silly hats, I agree with you.
[13:30.560 -> 13:36.220] We will stay away from Red Bull just for the moment, Joe, just to give ourselves some breathing
[13:36.220 -> 13:39.280] space from the feedback.
[13:39.280 -> 13:43.480] So what on earth, asks Rachel, is going on at Alpine?
[13:43.480 -> 13:47.160] Since Otmar Schaffner departed, I've not really heard what's happening.
[13:47.160 -> 13:48.640] Did I miss something?
[13:48.640 -> 13:50.520] Does the team not know what's happening?
[13:50.520 -> 13:52.720] I feel like Joe is bound to have some insights.
[13:52.720 -> 13:59.160] Well, the team has made lots of changes and new people in different jobs.
[13:59.160 -> 14:02.680] They've sort of reorganised it.
[14:02.680 -> 14:07.320] And to be quite honest, we just have to wait and see what happens.
[14:07.320 -> 14:11.160] They weren't very good at Monza, but Monza is never going to be a good track
[14:11.160 -> 14:16.560] for them. Their engine is not very good, which is the fundamental problem. And I
[14:16.560 -> 14:20.440] think another problem is that the French end of the operation don't seem to want
[14:20.440 -> 14:25.760] to recognize that the engine is not very good. And so there's a certain amount of tension between England and France.
[14:26.260 -> 14:32.500] We also have a manufacturer involved in the team directly, which is never a good
[14:32.500 -> 14:35.500] idea because manufacturers think they know all the answers and they don't.
[14:36.080 -> 14:41.340] And so somebody will come along and kick out all the races and then think that
[14:41.340 -> 14:43.200] it'll all work as things do in industry.
[14:43.200 -> 14:44.320] Well, it doesn't work like that.
[14:44.380 -> 14:45.040] So we'll have to see what happens, it doesn't work like that. So
[14:50.160 -> 14:56.720] we'll have to see what happens, but I think they need leadership. They have Bruno Famin, who is the vice president of competition at Alpine. It's his job to sort of run things.
[14:56.720 -> 15:01.920] He's also the interim team principal. Why you call him interim if you don't have another one
[15:01.920 -> 15:10.080] is not clear, but I suppose they're intending to find another one. The problem is there is no école nationale de porting principles.
[15:10.080 -> 15:14.800] You know, you have to go and find somebody who can do the job, and it's very difficult.
[15:14.800 -> 15:21.480] And I thought it was rather unwise to get rid of Armand, but Luca de Mayo, the boss
[15:21.480 -> 15:27.800] of Renault, obviously disagrees with me. And as he hasn't been at a race since, I haven't voiced the subject with him.
[15:27.800 -> 15:31.080] But I probably will when he does turn up and sort of say, what in the world are you doing
[15:31.080 -> 15:32.080] to find out what it means?
[15:32.080 -> 15:36.680] I thought actually they were doing something clever, which was going to put Renato in there.
[15:36.680 -> 15:41.320] That may not be the cleverest thing in the world, but it would have put somebody in who
[15:41.320 -> 15:46.640] understood how the two sides worked and what you need
[15:46.640 -> 15:49.240] to get to a certain level in Formula One.
[15:49.240 -> 15:52.920] And it would have put in an Italian who isn't either French or British.
[15:52.920 -> 15:57.800] So it would be a sort of neutral figure in the ongoing battle between Britain and France,
[15:57.800 -> 15:59.600] which is the Alpine team.
[15:59.600 -> 16:04.320] But Bonotto's come off the back of a failure.
[16:04.320 -> 16:06.920] So that does that feel like that that feel like a step backwards?
[16:06.920 -> 16:14.760] Yeah, but where Ferrari was and where they got to, even allowing for some dubious activities,
[16:14.760 -> 16:16.640] was not bad.
[16:16.640 -> 16:20.600] To get Alpine to be not bad would be a good thing.
[16:20.600 -> 16:33.120] They were sort of working at it, but ever since we had the changeover of the bosses at Renault, we've had a lot of changes which were not perhaps the wisest thing to do. Cyril
[16:33.120 -> 16:37.920] Abitbol might talk too fast and in 37 different languages at the same time, but he was a jolly
[16:37.920 -> 16:45.400] clever chap and he was doing okay. Then they had Marsan Budkowski, who's a clever bloke, but they didn't give him the space
[16:45.400 -> 16:46.400] to do.
[16:46.400 -> 16:55.720] Then they got rid of both Abitbol and Budkowski, and then they got Zafnar in, and they got
[16:55.720 -> 16:56.720] rid of Zafnar.
[16:56.720 -> 16:59.520] So, you know, let's wait and see what they do next.
[16:59.520 -> 17:05.360] But I think they need to understand that Formula One is rather harder than the car industry,
[17:05.360 -> 17:10.000] although they don't think that way. And if they want a good example of how not to do it,
[17:10.000 -> 17:15.360] I suggest they go and read the history of Jaguar Racing when the Ford Motor Company came in thinking
[17:15.360 -> 17:19.200] in all their wonderful arrogance that we are better than everybody, and you just waited for
[17:19.200 -> 17:23.360] it all to go. And it just went worse to worse to worse. There were knives flying. There were,
[17:23.360 -> 17:26.600] you know, literally the guillotine came out.
[17:26.600 -> 17:31.400] And in the end, they gave up and throw, flogged the holes into Red Bull, who turned into something
[17:31.400 -> 17:32.400] sensible.
[17:32.400 -> 17:38.720] So, you know, this is something you can't teach automobile executives except by pain.
[17:38.720 -> 17:43.480] And after a while, they learn that, they learn from the pain that they are in fact foolish.
[17:43.480 -> 17:45.620] And we could say the same about Toyota as well.
[17:45.620 -> 17:47.560] They did almost exactly the same thing.
[17:47.560 -> 17:49.100] Do you want to throw a billion dollars away?
[17:49.100 -> 17:51.220] Just come to Formula One and try and run it
[17:51.220 -> 17:52.740] like a car company.
[17:52.740 -> 17:55.960] The problem is with Cyril Abitbol there,
[17:55.960 -> 18:00.080] it felt like they had a great emperor to lead them forward.
[18:00.080 -> 18:02.280] You know, they were kind of synonymous,
[18:02.280 -> 18:04.280] Abitbol and Renault F1.
[18:04.280 -> 18:09.520] But then since he's gone, it's, they were kind of synonymous, Abitbol and Renault F1. But then since he's gone it's like the final days of Rome with emperors just being toppled left, right and
[18:09.520 -> 18:14.640] centre and I guess I'm wondering in the team, do they have any feeling of stability? Is
[18:14.640 -> 18:18.880] it even worth getting to know a team principal at Alpine because they'll be gone soon?
[18:18.880 -> 18:25.460] Well not necessarily if there's a good one. The trouble is that they didn't just get rid of Zafnar,
[18:25.460 -> 18:32.700] they also got rid of Alan Permaine, who's the sporting director, and they must have
[18:32.700 -> 18:36.980] known it was coming as well. The technical director, or the chief technical officer,
[18:36.980 -> 18:41.780] rather, has left to go to Williams. It all happened at the same time. Now, in the industry
[18:41.780 -> 18:45.400] world, you'd say, oh, well, they're putting all the bad news in the same quarter.
[18:45.400 -> 18:46.920] So they put all their debts into the same thing.
[18:46.920 -> 18:50.200] They have a terrible result for a while, then it looks better after that.
[18:50.200 -> 18:51.840] That's not how it works in Formula One.
[18:51.840 -> 18:56.880] So you've dumped everybody or let them leave, or not being able to stop them leaving.
[18:56.880 -> 19:02.040] Now you've got a whole bunch of new guys who aren't fully competent or yet.
[19:02.040 -> 19:05.740] I'm not saying they're not competent, but they're not competent at it yet, because it
[19:05.740 -> 19:07.340] takes time and experience.
[19:07.340 -> 19:14.620] So I think they are in a situation where they have to learn how to do it, and we'll see
[19:14.620 -> 19:19.500] if they give them enough rope to do it or enough rope to hang themselves.
[19:19.500 -> 19:21.200] That's one of the two things.
[19:21.200 -> 19:30.000] The other thing is that they've got this daft idea that you can do everything in 100 races, where you might as well just load a revolver and put it against your head.
[19:30.000 -> 19:30.500] Right.
[19:30.720 -> 19:33.600] And well, it's true. It's just mad.
[19:33.600 -> 19:35.280] I'm just going to soften that with some jazz.
[19:35.280 -> 19:43.280] To set a deadline of 100 races, which is five years effectively, slightly less, to be winning
[19:43.280 -> 19:45.120] world championships and all the rest of it.
[19:45.120 -> 19:51.760] You are living on cloud cookie land. So, or in cloud cookie land, sorry. So, Mr. DeMaio needs
[19:51.760 -> 19:57.360] to wake up and smell the coffee and figure out how to do it properly. He's very good at running
[19:57.360 -> 20:03.920] car companies, apparently. So, we'll see. But Alpine has big ambitions. Alpine, sorry.
[20:03.060 -> 20:07.280] So we'll see, but Alpine has big ambitions. Alpine, sorry, my French people would complain if I say Alpine.
[20:07.800 -> 20:14.560] Alpine has big ambitions of selling cars and in lots of ways,
[20:15.080 -> 20:16.880] Formula One is just a sideshow.
[20:16.880 -> 20:21.080] It's a way of showing the brand, but they don't want to be failing at it.
[20:21.620 -> 20:23.640] Now they're not really failing.
[20:23.640 -> 20:26.000] It's just so happens that, you know, they fired everybody at
[20:26.280 -> 20:28.160] Belgium and Monza doesn't suit them.
[20:28.680 -> 20:30.800] So let's go to Singapore and see how they do that.
[20:30.800 -> 20:35.540] In fact, if I remember correctly, Gasly somehow or other ended up on the podium.
[20:35.560 -> 20:35.800] Yeah.
[20:35.920 -> 20:39.480] Um, not so very long ago, which was ironic to say the least.
[20:40.000 -> 20:41.600] Um, but he did.
[20:41.860 -> 20:45.540] And so, you know, all these, all the bad teams, the formula one
[20:45.540 -> 20:48.380] is still decently good with one or two exceptions who I won't
[20:48.380 -> 20:50.080] name, but it's fairly obvious.
[20:50.300 -> 20:51.740] Um, Sauber.
[20:53.180 -> 20:53.900] I never said that.
[20:54.120 -> 20:55.860] I can't believe you said this nasty thing.
[20:55.860 -> 20:58.540] I'm just listing names and looking for your reaction.
[20:58.740 -> 21:00.320] Oh, that looked like a nod to me.
[21:00.320 -> 21:00.940] Was that a nod?
[21:00.980 -> 21:01.780] No, I don't think it was.
[21:02.020 -> 21:02.920] No, it wasn't a nod.
[21:03.020 -> 21:04.820] Isn't the problem with Alpine though?
[21:04.860 -> 21:06.960] Like, why are they being so ambitious?
[21:06.960 -> 21:10.000] Why do they keep promising to lasso the moon?
[21:10.000 -> 21:14.160] Why not just say, you know, we're here for top five finishes?
[21:14.160 -> 21:15.320] What they're trying to do-
[21:15.320 -> 21:17.360] If you think they're being ambitious, you need to look at-
[21:17.360 -> 21:18.360] Outwardly.
[21:18.360 -> 21:23.320] Their plans, their production plans for the Alpine models.
[21:23.320 -> 21:25.060] Right now they sell three and a half thousand
[21:25.060 -> 21:29.800] cars a year and by 2030 they want to sell a hundred and fifty thousand cars
[21:29.800 -> 21:33.760] a year. So if you think they're being ambitious in Formula One have a look in
[21:33.760 -> 21:38.300] the real world and you know there'll be Alpines going down the supermarket
[21:38.300 -> 21:42.920] left right and centre if they can sell that many of them. Okay but they're all pure EV.
[21:42.920 -> 21:46.640] Yeah. Sorry, they're pure EV.
[21:46.640 -> 21:49.840] It's not my fault, it's the internet's having to get to France and back.
[21:49.840 -> 21:51.600] Yeah, it's all EVs, isn't it?
[21:51.600 -> 21:54.320] So they're very much on the EV wagon early.
[21:54.320 -> 21:56.560] Well, they're on the EV wagon, yeah.
[21:56.560 -> 21:58.560] We'll see what happens in the long term.
[21:58.560 -> 22:06.640] They're also making lots of noise at one point about hydrogen, which is another alternative route. I think
[22:06.640 -> 22:10.320] you need to hedge your bets. I think all these car companies let into electricity
[22:10.880 -> 22:15.680] and just do electricity are being a little silly. But who am I? I'm just a Grand Prix
[22:15.680 -> 22:21.280] reporter. What do I know about car industry? It's too late. It's too late. Just to put my
[22:21.280 -> 22:25.120] opinion out there for the record, it's too late. EVs won. Hydrogen's a better match.
[22:25.120 -> 22:26.120] Beta match.
[22:26.120 -> 22:27.560] Yeah, but nobody's buying the damn things.
[22:27.560 -> 22:28.560] Yeah, they will.
[22:28.560 -> 22:29.560] That's the problem.
[22:29.560 -> 22:30.560] They will.
[22:30.560 -> 22:33.080] And even if they do buy them, they can't recharge them because there are 37 people waiting for
[22:33.080 -> 22:34.760] the three recharging machines.
[22:34.760 -> 22:37.480] Yeah, but there wasn't petrol stations at one point.
[22:37.480 -> 22:38.480] Do you know what I mean?
[22:38.480 -> 22:39.480] They just got a building in it.
[22:39.480 -> 22:40.480] Yeah.
[22:40.480 -> 22:42.960] Well, there's tons more petrol stations than there are recharging points.
[22:42.960 -> 22:43.960] I'm sure that's...
[22:43.960 -> 22:44.960] No.
[22:44.960 -> 22:48.680] In 18... I'm just thinking, I think it'll work fine if you live in Chiswick and you pot around
[22:48.680 -> 22:54.160] London in your EV thing, and you can find a parking space for it, which doesn't cost
[22:54.160 -> 22:55.800] the same as a house.
[22:55.800 -> 23:02.280] But out in the country, you know, look, where you got to do stuff and take trailers along
[23:02.280 -> 23:05.040] and stuff like that, you know, your battery's born and it all falls apart
[23:05.040 -> 23:06.840] and there's no recharging point.
[23:06.840 -> 23:08.160] Nobody's gonna buy the damn thing.
[23:08.160 -> 23:10.040] So let's see how it happens.
[23:10.040 -> 23:12.440] Maybe the electricity crowd are right,
[23:12.440 -> 23:15.560] but maybe there are other means that are better.
[23:15.560 -> 23:17.760] Now, including, for example,
[23:17.760 -> 23:21.920] including fuel that is entirely sustainable,
[23:21.920 -> 23:24.480] which Formula One is now gonna be working on from 26.
[23:24.480 -> 23:28.400] Now that's interesting. That is really interesting. I was so surprised that they've gone down
[23:28.400 -> 23:34.380] this route. Yes, it makes Formula One sustainable and they want to be completely carbon neutral
[23:34.380 -> 23:39.600] by 2030, I think, which is a great ambition. But I always thought the point of, say, for
[23:39.600 -> 23:45.920] example, going hybrid was road relevance. The road network is never going to be fueled by sustainable
[23:45.920 -> 23:50.440] fuels. You'll never be able to make enough sustainable fuels for the entire road network.
[23:50.440 -> 23:51.440] Why not? Why not?
[23:51.440 -> 23:54.080] Where are we going to make them, Joe?
[23:54.080 -> 24:00.520] There are factories out there, and as they become more accepted and people realize that
[24:00.520 -> 24:02.160] it will work, there will be more.
[24:02.160 -> 24:03.160] I don't think it scales.
[24:03.160 -> 24:05.960] It's true at the moment. there are many of them, yeah.
[24:05.960 -> 24:07.680] Okay, so that's my surprise.
[24:07.680 -> 24:08.680] So F1...
[24:08.680 -> 24:12.800] In the old days, as you just said yourself, in the old days, there weren't many refineries
[24:12.800 -> 24:15.760] either so you couldn't put crude oil in your machine and hope for it to go.
[24:15.760 -> 24:20.720] So they used to use whale oil and stuff to power cars in the old days, didn't they, sir?
[24:20.720 -> 24:26.080] Yeah, and the idea being that the carbon that is released from the sustainable fuels has
[24:26.080 -> 24:32.800] been captured in the first place. So you're not releasing new carbon, you're sort of recycling
[24:32.800 -> 24:38.000] carbon. So it becomes a kind of carbon neutral cycle. But yeah, so they must think that it will
[24:38.000 -> 24:45.680] scale up. There's lots of problems with all the arguments at the moment. They've all got ups and downs. Even
[24:45.680 -> 24:54.600] the 2030 sustainable thing in Formula One doesn't include spectators. I've had this
[24:54.600 -> 24:58.600] argument already. How can you have this not including spectators? And they say, well,
[24:58.600 -> 25:04.280] that's the race promoters who have to deal with that. Formula One itself will be fully
[25:04.280 -> 25:06.640] sustainable by 2030. Fair enough. Well, that
[25:06.640 -> 25:12.800] doesn't make the sport as a whole sustainable, just Formula One. So it's kind of messing about.
[25:12.800 -> 25:20.560] I did have an entirely brilliant argument from the Mexican Grand Prix promoter a year or so ago,
[25:20.560 -> 25:25.600] it might be last year or the year before, I can't remember. He said, we don't have to worry about that.
[25:25.600 -> 25:29.160] I said, excuse me, how can you possibly argue that?
[25:29.160 -> 25:33.460] He said, we're already, we're already sustainable.
[25:33.460 -> 25:35.420] And I said, how does that work?
[25:35.420 -> 25:40.880] He said, well, when you televise Formula One, all over the world, millions of people stay
[25:40.880 -> 25:43.640] at home to watch it and don't go out driving.
[25:43.640 -> 25:44.640] It's a brilliant argument.
[25:44.640 -> 25:46.040] It's a very, very good argument.
[25:46.040 -> 25:50.680] Because you can't go, oh, that's a load of rubbish, because it's actually sort of true.
[25:50.680 -> 25:52.120] But how do you measure it?
[25:52.120 -> 25:53.120] That's another problem.
[25:53.120 -> 25:59.740] But he is, you can argue that, I suppose, that we stop people going out and going driving
[25:59.740 -> 26:03.800] in the Cotswolds and pumping out lots of nasty fumes.
[26:03.800 -> 26:09.160] But anyway, I'm not sure I'd argue that one, but it was certainly a good effort.
[26:09.160 -> 26:10.160] I like it.
[26:10.160 -> 26:11.160] Yeah.
[26:11.160 -> 26:16.120] The average carbon footprint of anyone enjoying Formula One, I suppose, is actually pretty
[26:16.120 -> 26:17.120] low.
[26:17.120 -> 26:18.120] Yeah, I like that.
[26:18.120 -> 26:19.120] Should we move on, Joe?
[26:19.120 -> 26:20.120] Should we get another question here?
[26:20.120 -> 26:22.840] Please feel free to, you know, carbon stuff is really my cup of tea.
[26:22.840 -> 26:23.840] I know.
[26:23.840 -> 26:26.640] It's just, look, people are going to email, and I don't mind, feedback at spanners...
[26:26.640 -> 26:29.840] Sorry, feedback at mistapex.net or spanners at mistapex.net.
[26:29.840 -> 26:30.840] I love that.
[26:30.840 -> 26:34.840] I just like to caveat my view quickly so you don't go, hey, spanners, why didn't you challenge
[26:34.840 -> 26:36.440] such and such on such and such?
[26:36.440 -> 26:38.640] So I think EV is the way forward.
[26:38.640 -> 26:42.760] Hydrogen's too explodey, and sustainable fuels won't scale up to the road network.
[26:42.760 -> 26:43.840] That's just my view.
[26:43.840 -> 26:45.320] Joe seems to disagree.
[26:45.320 -> 26:48.920] Okay, so just cutting off a couple of emails there, Joe.
[26:48.920 -> 26:50.800] Right, let's see, who did this question?
[26:50.800 -> 26:51.800] This is Mark.
[26:51.800 -> 26:56.000] Mark Greenhouse says, question for Joe, how much of the recent Williams success can be
[26:56.000 -> 26:58.160] attributed to James Vowles?
[26:58.160 -> 26:59.680] Can he really have made such a big difference?
[26:59.680 -> 27:00.680] Did you just say Greenhouse?
[27:00.680 -> 27:01.680] Greenhouse.
[27:01.680 -> 27:02.680] Greenhowl.
[27:02.680 -> 27:03.680] Greenhowl.
[27:03.680 -> 27:04.680] Oh, I see.
[27:04.680 -> 27:06.080] I thought you said Greenhouse. I was going tohowl? Greenhowl? Oh I see, I thought you said Greenhouse
[27:06.080 -> 27:11.120] so I was going to ask if his name was Jassabout. Even if his name was Greenhouse, I don't think
[27:11.120 -> 27:17.200] it's right to mock the listener's surname, Joseph. Unbelievable. I'm so sorry Mark. People
[27:17.200 -> 27:21.720] call me Seaweed all the time, so there you are. Well your name should be, yeah you pronounced
[27:21.720 -> 27:30.080] your own name wrong, but we won't get into that. I literally have to write down S-A-Y-W-O-O-D to overcome how you say your name wrong. Joe Saywood. Right,
[27:30.080 -> 27:36.480] here we go. So... I blame the Danes. It's all their fault. So has James Vallard made such a
[27:36.480 -> 27:40.640] big difference in such a short space of time, or is he just taking the credit for things that
[27:40.640 -> 27:48.320] had happened before he got there? James Vallard has arrived, he has reinvigorated the place, he's moved people around, he's
[27:48.320 -> 27:52.800] got rid of some of the silly ideas and silly thinking, and what they've got is a car that
[27:52.800 -> 27:57.600] is now, it's not fully competitive, but in certain places it's very competitive.
[27:57.600 -> 28:03.200] They also have an exceptional driver in Mr. Albon, and so I think you can give almost
[28:03.200 -> 28:07.640] all the credit to James for having done that.
[28:07.640 -> 28:11.800] Obviously the engineers built a half-decent car, but they didn't have the money to develop
[28:11.800 -> 28:16.860] it before the new owners came along.
[28:16.860 -> 28:21.320] But you do have to say that James is responsible for a lot of...
[28:21.320 -> 28:29.120] It seems like he's sort of... And also the most important thing, the most important thing is the sense of, we can do
[28:29.120 -> 28:31.400] this within a team.
[28:31.400 -> 28:35.440] People will follow James because he is a very good leader.
[28:35.440 -> 28:43.400] And that's, you know, you don't have the apathy and the, oh well, you know, we don't have
[28:43.400 -> 28:45.800] to do this because we're not fighting for a world championship
[28:45.800 -> 28:53.260] kind of attitude that exists in some places. And that's a huge thing. People will go the
[28:53.260 -> 28:58.080] extra mile because they think they can achieve stuff. And that's really important. That's
[28:58.080 -> 29:04.260] down to good leadership. And leadership is much more important in Formula One than people
[29:04.260 -> 29:07.000] sometimes give it credit for.
[29:07.000 -> 29:12.000] I'll just point out to the listeners and viewers, by the way, we're not constantly talking over and interrupting each other.
[29:12.000 -> 29:16.000] For whatever reason, the line between me and Joe always seems to have just a little bit of a delay.
[29:16.000 -> 29:21.000] So we think the other one stops talking because it has to go through Joe's private stream.
[29:21.000 -> 29:27.600] It has to go over the deer enclosure and through the butterfly house before it gets to his house.
[29:27.600 -> 29:32.520] But the thing I've really noticed with Williams is that procedurally everything seems perfect.
[29:32.520 -> 29:36.240] So I'm wondering whether you're right and you're saying James Vowles has gone in there
[29:36.240 -> 29:40.680] and really taken the low-hanging fruit procedurally, their pit stops are on point.
[29:40.680 -> 29:44.360] In qualifying, they always seem to time their runs perfectly.
[29:44.360 -> 29:46.600] Everything seems to just be running just so.
[29:46.600 -> 29:51.220] It's not just James, let's be fair here as well. He has brought in a bunch of people,
[29:51.220 -> 29:56.280] you haven't heard of lots of them, but they come in and they're very accomplished people,
[29:56.280 -> 30:01.880] not necessarily all from racing. I mean, they have a new chief of operations who is a very
[30:01.880 -> 30:05.640] accomplished man outside the world of racing, but he's
[30:05.640 -> 30:06.740] very competitive.
[30:06.740 -> 30:12.240] He comes from the aviation world, if I remember correctly.
[30:12.240 -> 30:21.520] And he's done a remarkable, or he's doing, to get parts arriving on time early, as fast
[30:21.520 -> 30:25.200] as possible, get production up to speed to get all kinds of
[30:25.200 -> 30:30.120] things that Williams weren't doing right, correct. There's not just James, but, you
[30:30.120 -> 30:34.680] know, James has brought the people in and he's bringing in more. And Pat Fry from Alpena
[30:34.680 -> 30:40.200] is a good example of that. Pat won't be designing the cars necessarily, I'm sure he won't be,
[30:40.200 -> 30:46.240] but he will be putting in place what is necessary for the team to be successful in the future.
[30:46.240 -> 30:52.080] And there are people coming in. What's really interesting is that you can see that Williams
[30:52.080 -> 30:57.200] has ceased to be a place you wouldn't go, to being a place where engineers are saying to each other,
[30:57.200 -> 31:01.680] what do you think about Williams? I think I should go there because that's the kind of place things
[31:01.680 -> 31:08.160] are happening. So you'll see people coming out of Red Bull. You see people coming out of Mercedes, out of Ferrari, and they're going to Williams.
[31:08.160 -> 31:09.340] Why is that?
[31:09.340 -> 31:11.960] Because they think it's a team with a future.
[31:11.960 -> 31:16.040] And if there's money behind it, they have a problem at the moment with CapEx, capital
[31:16.040 -> 31:21.360] expenditure investment, because the other teams... and FOM, which is weird.
[31:21.360 -> 31:31.480] But the Formula One group seems to be in agreement with the bigger teams that you can't allow free rein on investment, although they have done it with Aston Martin,
[31:31.480 -> 31:35.320] to a large extent, perhaps had a huge amount of investment which was agreed upon.
[31:35.320 -> 31:38.800] Williams hasn't been allowed that advantage.
[31:38.800 -> 31:45.600] There's about four teams who want to go on investing and have the money to do so. But you've got to have five to change
[31:45.600 -> 31:54.880] the limit of capex over a period. It's all very complicated, but basically there is a
[31:54.880 -> 32:04.040] desire for everyone to have the same basic facilities, which would create a level playing
[32:04.040 -> 32:05.760] field over time.
[32:05.760 -> 32:09.920] But that desire is also being blocked by people who have those facilities already and saying,
[32:09.920 -> 32:13.960] well, why should new people have the advantage over us?
[32:13.960 -> 32:15.760] And that's the argument going on at the moment.
[32:15.760 -> 32:16.760] They're not new.
[32:16.760 -> 32:17.760] They're hardly new, are they, Williams?
[32:17.760 -> 32:18.760] Yeah, but they're facilities are 20 years behind.
[32:18.760 -> 32:19.760] It's not like an Andretti coming.
[32:19.760 -> 32:28.440] I think people need to realize just how off the pace the factory, the wind tunnel, they
[32:28.440 -> 32:30.360] need so much stuff changing.
[32:30.360 -> 32:34.720] They need a hundred million, more than a hundred million of investment.
[32:34.720 -> 32:42.120] Because since, literally since, I don't know, about 2006, seven, something like that, the
[32:42.120 -> 32:45.040] team hasn't had enough investment.
[32:45.040 -> 32:51.840] Now they can't, which is ironic really, because everything's in place to going to it again
[32:51.840 -> 32:56.500] and Bill Williams up, but they're not allowed to invest.
[32:56.500 -> 32:59.600] But they could underspend on the cost cap and use that money to invest?
[32:59.600 -> 33:00.920] To be honest, I don't know.
[33:00.920 -> 33:07.520] If you can underspend on the budget cap, you're doing well. But even so,
[33:07.520 -> 33:17.520] you're still looking at about $70 million. You can't run a racing team minus $70 million what
[33:17.520 -> 33:22.720] your budget is today. You just can't. So they need to go on arguing. They will go on arguing.
[33:22.720 -> 33:27.000] But the philosophical arguments of Formula 1
[33:27.000 -> 33:32.000] are that there should be a more level playing field, with everybody having the same sort of stuff,
[33:32.000 -> 33:37.000] and then you get better racing. That's the philosophy, but then you have the vested interests who say,
[33:37.000 -> 33:43.000] well, hang on a minute. So Ferrari, Mercedes, Red Bull, they don't want...
[33:43.000 -> 33:45.200] Red Bull's a bit different because they've
[33:45.200 -> 33:49.240] got two teams and one of them needs investment the other one doesn't so much.
[33:49.240 -> 33:53.840] Then you have McLaren who pretty much got what they need just haven't been
[33:53.840 -> 33:59.320] using it very well. Then you've got Sauber which has got some of the stuff
[33:59.320 -> 34:03.640] you need but Audi's coming in and they want to invest more. So then you have
[34:03.640 -> 34:07.020] Alpine which, you know, not quite sure where they're going on any day of the
[34:07.020 -> 34:10.720] week, depending on who's in charge that week.
[34:10.720 -> 34:14.540] And so you have these different elements.
[34:14.540 -> 34:23.800] The ultimate best solution is to follow the NFL route, which is to make the week stronger
[34:23.800 -> 34:26.160] so that everyone can compete and create a better show.
[34:26.720 -> 34:30.160] And that's what everybody's constantly going about in North Wales.
[34:31.200 -> 34:32.720] This is what she's supposed to do.
[34:34.720 -> 34:35.840] That's a good impression of everyone.
[34:35.840 -> 34:36.960] I mean, but that's what it is.
[34:40.880 -> 34:42.880] I've been plagued by that throughout my entire life.
[34:44.160 -> 34:48.120] Of the, hello, I'm a reader, I just like to complain syndrome.
[34:48.120 -> 34:51.560] Everybody has things that are wrong with Formula One,
[34:51.560 -> 34:54.280] but it takes a lot to change things.
[34:54.280 -> 34:57.140] And while the media can help,
[34:57.140 -> 34:59.320] the media needs to be a little bit more responsible
[34:59.320 -> 35:00.800] to be taken seriously.
[35:00.800 -> 35:02.560] And sometimes, particularly nowadays,
[35:02.560 -> 35:10.680] when half the media actually isn't involved in the sport, it's much more difficult to have a voice.
[35:10.680 -> 35:14.000] That's interesting, that kind of feedback. That's the only feedback now that makes me
[35:14.000 -> 35:19.460] genuinely sad, is when somebody goes, I've been listening for 47 years and I've loved
[35:19.460 -> 35:23.840] every single show, but this one show, this one thing you said has outraged me, so I'm
[35:23.840 -> 35:27.200] going to write to you for the first time. That's the only feedback that sends me sad and
[35:27.200 -> 35:30.560] I always go back going how come you didn't write when you were enjoying all
[35:30.560 -> 35:33.480] the other ones? That would have been a nice scene. Oh come on, you don't want too much positive
[35:33.480 -> 35:36.400] praise because then your ego would go through the roof and there'd be a big hole
[35:36.400 -> 35:43.280] where the rain would come out. No, I need... I used to say this whenever we had a substitute producer on
[35:43.280 -> 35:45.680] the local radio station. The producer
[35:45.680 -> 35:49.680] would come in and go, oh, hi, I'm Richard. I'm the presenter today. Just so you know,
[35:49.680 -> 35:54.000] I need constant reassurance and validation. Thanks. And then I'd go on air and see their
[35:54.000 -> 35:58.160] confused faces. And they would sort of occasionally go on the little producer mic and be like,
[35:58.160 -> 36:01.680] you're doing really well. It's all sounding great. And I'd be like, thank you. Thank you.
[36:01.680 -> 36:08.960] I need that. And I just get them to do that for a three-hour shift. Anyway right now it's your turn to get yelled at Joe.
[36:08.960 -> 36:14.280] Okay not by me so this is a question from Jel. I've made my opinion on this
[36:14.280 -> 36:18.000] very clear and you've all already sent me your email so all I will be doing is
[36:18.000 -> 36:23.120] reading this question and then asking the odd follow-up. Okay Jel this is from
[36:23.120 -> 36:26.960] Jel06 says what's the feeling at Red Bull? They've just
[36:26.960 -> 36:31.320] had a very public mess up that's not going away. Yeah, blimey, the feedback has been
[36:31.320 -> 36:35.720] incredible. What's been the fallout behind the scenes? Has this pushed Perez further
[36:35.720 -> 36:39.320] away from the Red Bull seat? And if so, what are his options? Could we see him go and who
[36:39.320 -> 36:42.800] would be brought in to replace him? But yeah, I mean, if you look at all the FIA Twitter
[36:42.800 -> 36:50.760] posts, every reply for days was about Helmut Marko. So, have you got any feeling of how Red Bull have reacted
[36:50.760 -> 36:51.760] to the kerfuffle?
[36:51.760 -> 36:54.680] Well, you see, this is one of the things about social media. There are kerfuffles that have
[36:54.680 -> 36:59.840] no impact at all on the real world. Everyone's in a big kerfuffle about it all. Helmut Marko,
[36:59.840 -> 37:04.720] I am absolutely sure, doesn't give a toss. Because they're winning the World Championship
[37:04.720 -> 37:07.400] by a million miles and they don't need Sergio Perez.
[37:07.400 -> 37:11.320] Max Verstappen has actually won the manufacturers championship as well if you look at the point
[37:11.320 -> 37:12.320] standings.
[37:12.320 -> 37:18.600] Perez is merely a sort of bloke in the corner who sort of adds a few points occasionally
[37:18.600 -> 37:21.040] but never actually looks for a good.
[37:21.040 -> 37:22.760] So what do they do?
[37:22.760 -> 37:27.920] Do they disrupt what they have and get excited by the social media,
[37:27.920 -> 37:30.440] just go on winning races and saying blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
[37:30.440 -> 37:31.440] blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
[37:31.440 -> 37:32.440] blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
[37:32.440 -> 37:33.440] blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
[37:33.440 -> 37:34.440] blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
[37:34.440 -> 37:35.440] blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
[37:35.440 -> 37:36.440] blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
[37:36.440 -> 37:37.440] blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
[37:37.440 -> 37:49.280] blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah new cars, particularly in 26. But is it best to disrupt the equilibrium that they have at Red Bull, which is very
[37:49.280 -> 37:50.280] simple?
[37:50.280 -> 37:53.380] There's Max Verstappen and the bloke in the corner who can't drive fast.
[37:53.380 -> 37:55.980] Or do you have somebody who can drive a bit faster?
[37:55.980 -> 37:57.420] And so Max starts looking over his shoulder.
[37:57.420 -> 38:02.020] I don't think Max would look over his shoulder at anybody, to be honest, because I think
[38:02.020 -> 38:06.340] he's pretty clear in his own mind that he's pretty damn fast.
[38:06.340 -> 38:08.140] So, you know, what's the point?
[38:08.140 -> 38:10.380] If you look at McLaren back in the 80s,
[38:10.380 -> 38:12.380] they put center and cross together.
[38:12.380 -> 38:14.660] And duh, that wasn't smart.
[38:14.660 -> 38:16.220] How'd that go, Uncle Joe?
[38:16.220 -> 38:19.780] Well, that's one of the things you have to think about.
[38:19.780 -> 38:21.340] Is it wise?
[38:21.340 -> 38:22.980] It's sporting, yeah?
[38:22.980 -> 38:25.000] It's more sporting, if you like to call it that.
[38:25.000 -> 38:29.000] To have two guys fighting it out with the same car, particularly if your car is dominant.
[38:29.000 -> 38:35.000] So, then you get to the situation with Rosberg, Nikko Variety and Lewis,
[38:35.000 -> 38:40.000] where they were sort of fighting it out for the championship, so you have interest for the fans.
[38:40.000 -> 38:44.000] That's one way of looking at it. If they want to go down that path,
[38:44.000 -> 38:52.000] they're very, very keen on Lando Norris, which is interesting. I've heard several Red Bull people saying they're
[38:52.000 -> 38:57.520] interested, and Lando's saying he's interested, even if he goes up against Max, which I think is
[38:57.520 -> 39:02.400] really interesting. It tells me a couple of things. One is that Lando is not necessarily
[39:02.400 -> 39:05.440] convinced that the future lies at McLaren. He also knows
[39:05.440 -> 39:15.080] that Oscar Piastri, after nine months in Formula One, is already making him work quite hard.
[39:15.080 -> 39:18.320] And this is Oscar's first year, you remember, he's trying to learn about the tyres and the
[39:18.320 -> 39:22.880] tracks and all this stuff. So, Oscar's doing a really good job. And I think he's got under
[39:22.880 -> 39:30.960] Lando's skin just a little bit. Lando just doesn't seem to be very relaxed about it all. And so I think if I was Lando,
[39:32.400 -> 39:36.560] I might start looking around. Unfortunately, Lando signed a contract that keeps him there until the
[39:36.560 -> 39:42.320] end of 25, so if he wants to go somewhere he has to buy his way out of his contract.
[39:42.880 -> 39:49.600] Assuming that McClown have got all the contractual details correct, which may or may not be the case given the Palau story, which we don't
[39:49.600 -> 39:54.280] know the details of, but Palau seemed to think he could walk out.
[39:54.280 -> 39:59.240] And you won't normally do that if there's a legal thing binding you there, will you?
[39:59.240 -> 40:03.760] But the thing is, if you ask Lando Norris, would you go up against Vestappa, and he's
[40:03.760 -> 40:06.080] not going to go, pfft, in a red bull, you're joking mate.
[40:06.080 -> 40:07.080] No.
[40:07.080 -> 40:10.400] No, he has actually responded to that.
[40:10.400 -> 40:15.880] He has basically said, well, if you're going to try to be the best, you've got to measure
[40:15.880 -> 40:17.680] yourself against the best.
[40:17.680 -> 40:18.680] If I fail, I fail.
[40:18.680 -> 40:19.680] There's a flaw in that though.
[40:19.680 -> 40:22.000] I know, but that's what you have to do.
[40:22.000 -> 40:23.000] There isn't a flaw.
[40:23.000 -> 40:25.040] Otherwise, you're just running away.
[40:25.040 -> 40:26.120] Can I offer a flaw?
[40:26.120 -> 40:27.120] Can I offer a flaw?
[40:27.120 -> 40:28.120] You can offer a flaw.
[40:28.120 -> 40:34.120] The flaw is that I think there are some drivers who could take on Verstappen in a McLaren
[40:34.120 -> 40:35.600] or an Audi or a Mercedes.
[40:35.600 -> 40:39.800] I don't think there's anybody who goes up against Verstappen in a Red Bull.
[40:39.800 -> 40:42.280] Because he's their Schumacher.
[40:42.280 -> 40:45.560] That implies that Red Bull favours Verstappen.
[40:45.560 -> 40:47.120] They do, absolutely, 100%.
[40:47.120 -> 40:50.000] In fact, they don't favour Verstappen, Verstappen's just the best driver.
[40:50.000 -> 40:51.000] So any team…
[40:51.000 -> 40:52.360] I don't believe you.
[40:52.360 -> 40:58.000] …any team will naturally, psychologically, fall behind the best driver, even if they
[40:58.000 -> 41:00.800] don't officially, whatever.
[41:00.800 -> 41:05.920] If somebody comes in and goes faster, so for example, let's go back to the example
[41:05.920 -> 41:11.640] of McLaren in the 80s, Alain Prost was there, Senna arrived, and guess what?
[41:11.640 -> 41:15.680] By the end of the time there, Senna was very popular and Prost had departed.
[41:15.680 -> 41:23.000] So it's not about one favoring the other, it's about people going and challenging themselves
[41:23.000 -> 41:26.100] against the best, and that's what as a racing driver, you have to do.
[41:26.100 -> 41:27.920] Otherwise you're just running away and earning money.
[41:28.940 -> 41:32.420] Now, how many of them get the opportunity to measure themselves up against the best?
[41:32.420 -> 41:36.180] There's another question, but when you do have that opportunity, if Red Bull has
[41:36.180 -> 41:40.880] said to Lando Norris, we want you and we'll pay you this amount, why wouldn't you do it?
[41:43.160 -> 41:45.480] Well, Norris will go there and get spanked by Verstappen.
[41:45.480 -> 41:46.480] Not necessarily.
[41:46.480 -> 41:47.480] No, no, but hang on.
[41:47.480 -> 41:49.560] Hang on, rewind a bit.
[41:49.560 -> 41:52.160] Go back in time.
[41:52.160 -> 41:56.400] Lando Norris and Max Verstappen have been around racing together.
[41:56.400 -> 42:07.900] I'm not sure how much they've actually raced together head to head at the different levels. But, you know, they both have great ability and they both know one
[42:07.900 -> 42:10.860] another's, uh, skills and weaknesses.
[42:11.740 -> 42:14.580] The only way you can find out if one's better than the other is to put them together.
[42:14.680 -> 42:17.540] That's the only way that you can judge who's a better driver.
[42:17.540 -> 42:21.540] And then even when you can judge that, you have to base it on the fact that in the
[42:21.540 -> 42:26.720] first year in a new team, a guy will usually not be as quick as the guy who was there before.
[42:26.720 -> 42:31.720] So, you know, we have to see how things develop.
[42:32.600 -> 42:34.840] And this is why it's so difficult
[42:34.840 -> 42:36.760] to judge who's the best driver,
[42:36.760 -> 42:39.220] because you can say, well, he beat him
[42:39.220 -> 42:41.020] and he beat him and he beat him.
[42:41.020 -> 42:42.920] Therefore, he is better than him.
[42:42.920 -> 42:44.960] But that doesn't take into account
[42:44.960 -> 42:47.680] the fact that one might have got better and developed
[42:47.680 -> 42:49.320] more than the other over time.
[42:49.320 -> 42:50.320] True.
[42:50.320 -> 42:53.320] But Max has brushed everyone aside.
[42:53.320 -> 42:55.360] Based on the cars they have, because cars also help.
[42:55.360 -> 42:58.960] They give you confidence, therefore as you get confidence you can do stuff you can't
[42:58.960 -> 43:02.280] do in other cars, so you learn more.
[43:02.280 -> 43:06.720] So Max has brushed everyone aside pretty much, he sort of found his feet. He looks much
[43:06.720 -> 43:13.320] better than Ricciardo, Gasly, Albon, all fancy drivers. Perez who'd won, he's won nine races
[43:13.320 -> 43:18.220] and got nine podiums from the midfield making him look absolutely disastrous. So that must
[43:18.220 -> 43:25.360] mean that either he has some advantage at Red Bull or the Red Bull favours him and his style or whatever,
[43:25.360 -> 43:32.240] or he is just in a league of his own over all of those other fancied drivers and there's
[43:32.240 -> 43:36.280] just no one that can touch Max Verstappen at the moment, which would not say much about
[43:36.280 -> 43:37.440] the state of talent in F1.
[43:37.440 -> 43:41.760] It looks that way, but let's look at it another way. How many of those drivers you've mentioned?
[43:41.760 -> 43:45.840] Daniel Ricciardo had had the time, he was there when Max arrived.
[43:45.840 -> 43:51.540] So he did look good in the first year against Max, then Max looked good in the second year.
[43:51.540 -> 43:52.540] And then Daniel left.
[43:52.540 -> 43:53.540] And unreliability was an issue.
[43:53.540 -> 43:58.080] Hang on, but Daniel left also after that because he realized, holy cow, this bloke's better
[43:58.080 -> 44:03.060] than me, probably. Now, then you have the ones who followed that. Casley thrown in too
[44:03.060 -> 44:05.960] early. Albon thrown in too early. Albon, thrown in too early.
[44:05.960 -> 44:09.960] And naturally, to a lesser or greater extent, they failed or didn't fail.
[44:09.960 -> 44:14.600] I mean, I don't think Albon did a bad job, but it just so happened that when they were
[44:14.600 -> 44:19.840] deciding what to do about Albon, he'd just been booted off by Lewis in Brazil and deprived
[44:19.840 -> 44:21.960] of his victory, his first victory.
[44:21.960 -> 44:27.740] And Perez had lucked into a victory in a racing point in a race in Bahrain that honestly,
[44:27.740 -> 44:30.880] George Russell should have won at his first attempt in a Mercedes.
[44:30.880 -> 44:36.540] So that's one thing I would say about Helmut, and that is he blows with the wind.
[44:36.540 -> 44:41.720] So if somebody looks cool one week, he'll sign them, and then he'll regret it later.
[44:41.720 -> 44:47.560] He doesn't think things through in a long term wise, in perhaps the way you should.
[44:47.560 -> 44:53.480] So I think you just have to put them together and see what happens.
[44:53.480 -> 44:55.400] Pérez is not a bad racer.
[44:55.400 -> 45:01.960] This is the point about Sergio is that he's shockingly poor results come from the fact
[45:01.960 -> 45:04.440] he qualifies really badly.
[45:04.440 -> 45:06.960] And you know, how many times has he not made it out of Q3?
[45:07.580 -> 45:08.600] Sorry, Q1 rather.
[45:09.280 -> 45:10.900] Now this year he's been disastrous.
[45:10.900 -> 45:14.760] So he spends his entire race is catching up, which he does quite well, working
[45:14.760 -> 45:18.840] his way through and avoiding getting taken out by people, crashing into him
[45:18.840 -> 45:23.840] and stuff like that, but you are, you are at a massive disadvantage if you can't
[45:23.840 -> 45:26.800] qualify and that has always been his weakness.
[45:26.800 -> 45:32.400] And it's not going to go away because, you know, and Red Bull can't afford to have them.
[45:32.400 -> 45:35.200] They want somebody on the front row alongside Max all the time.
[45:37.440 -> 45:38.080] All right.
[45:38.080 -> 45:38.400] Okay.
[45:38.400 -> 45:43.360] So the question, actually, we did get this question from Gigg and Nii as well in our
[45:43.360 -> 45:45.840] Patreon Slack group about the Lando
[45:45.840 -> 45:52.560] rumblings. If he goes to Red Bull, a surprise move next season, let's say, what do you fancy?
[45:52.560 -> 45:54.160] By six months in, does he have the measure of a stabbing?
[45:54.160 -> 45:58.960] It won't happen next year. I'd be amazed if it did, because that means that Lando would have
[45:58.960 -> 46:04.720] to buy out two years of contract, which is a lot of money. And anyone who thinks Red Bull's going
[46:04.720 -> 46:05.500] to buy him out, they're
[46:05.500 -> 46:07.080] dreaming because that isn't going to happen.
[46:07.240 -> 46:10.500] So if he wants to get out, he'll buy himself out and then earn the money
[46:10.500 -> 46:12.740] back, which is a tough way to do it.
[46:13.060 -> 46:15.200] So I think he'll stay where he is next year.
[46:15.700 -> 46:18.420] And I think the Perez will get booted out at the end of next year.
[46:18.940 -> 46:22.440] And I think that then, or before then, obviously, because they have to make
[46:22.440 -> 46:30.960] decisions, Lando has to decide whether to buy himself out of McLaren contract for 25.
[46:30.960 -> 46:32.960] And then, come on, Joe, come on, come on.
[46:32.960 -> 46:34.680] You want me to know what I think will happen?
[46:34.680 -> 46:35.680] How would he do?
[46:35.680 -> 46:40.560] Well, I think that Lando will be his usual quick self, but Max will be quicker to begin
[46:40.560 -> 46:41.560] with.
[46:41.560 -> 46:42.560] And then we'll see.
[46:42.560 -> 46:45.400] I don't know what happens after that.
[46:45.400 -> 46:50.360] It is genuinely possible that there's just a huge gulf in F1 between the talent and that
[46:50.360 -> 46:54.220] you've just got, you know, the likes of Verstappen and Hamilton in one tier and then a gulf down
[46:54.220 -> 46:58.280] to these drivers who we think are great, but really there's just a little bit of a gap.
[46:58.280 -> 47:05.680] I think the answer is that they're all quick. They're all quick, but some make more mistakes than others.
[47:05.680 -> 47:08.680] If you look at Leclerc, Leclerc is incredibly quick.
[47:08.680 -> 47:12.800] He makes a lot of mistakes, perhaps because he's pushing the machinery faster than it
[47:12.800 -> 47:13.800] will go.
[47:13.800 -> 47:17.520] But nonetheless, he makes a lot of mistakes, and you can't afford to do that.
[47:17.520 -> 47:18.920] Carlos Sainz is quick.
[47:18.920 -> 47:24.440] He makes a lot of mistakes too, although his finishing record, oddly, has been remarkable
[47:24.440 -> 47:26.720] over time.
[47:26.720 -> 47:31.940] So you have people who are fast, but being fast is, you've also got to be able to handle
[47:31.940 -> 47:33.260] the pressure.
[47:33.260 -> 47:40.080] And this is why I think, for example, Piastri is remarkable, because he's just not fazed
[47:40.080 -> 47:41.240] by anything.
[47:41.240 -> 47:53.060] If he has a bad weekend, he has a bad weekend, shrugs and gets on with it. It'll be better next time. Some of them, their heads go down, they get depressed, they
[47:53.060 -> 47:58.300] double guess themselves and they lose pace because they're losing confidence. And so
[47:58.300 -> 48:03.580] it's a psychological game. Ultimately, it's a psychology. Max is just sailing along at
[48:03.580 -> 48:05.280] the front. He's got the ability,
[48:05.280 -> 48:10.160] he's got everything right and keep it running as long as possible.
[48:12.320 -> 48:16.240] Interesting because one of those is, and as a Lewis Hamilton fan, you kind of watch Lewis
[48:16.240 -> 48:23.360] Hamilton's demeanor on a Friday, it's a big actual indicator of his performance and it happens too
[48:23.360 -> 48:28.240] often to be coincidence that he's down and then has a poor weekend you have to think that
[48:28.240 -> 48:31.800] some of that is psychological like he talks himself out of a good weekend
[48:31.800 -> 48:34.880] sometimes so as Hamilton fans you know we we look at his demeanor and if he's
[48:34.880 -> 48:40.480] bouncy and happy you go okay that's that's a positive sign for not really a
[48:40.480 -> 48:42.760] question
[48:41.000 -> 48:44.000] Not really a question. I don't really agree with that either.
[48:44.000 -> 48:48.240] I think Lewis does as well as he can.
[48:48.240 -> 48:55.000] Okay, his body language might do stuff, but he's always giving absolutely everything.
[48:55.000 -> 48:57.480] Lewis Hamilton's not a guy who gives up.
[48:57.480 -> 49:02.280] And he has to work for it too, because George Hamilton, George Hamilton, he's somebody else,
[49:02.280 -> 49:03.280] isn't he?
[49:03.280 -> 49:06.800] George Russell is no slouch. So
[49:06.800 -> 49:13.360] you know Lewis has to stay honest and obviously the Mercedes team thinks he's still got it
[49:13.360 -> 49:18.880] despite his advancing years. They think he's still worth another two year contract so why
[49:18.880 -> 49:26.240] not? Why not? Ross has a question probably to finish off Joe, being respectful of your time,
[49:26.240 -> 49:32.720] but for people who would like a bit more one-on-one time with you, or well, 50 on one time, you
[49:32.720 -> 49:39.280] are going to be hosting a virtual live audience, facilitated here by Missed Apex, and I'll
[49:39.280 -> 49:45.840] be your MC as usual. It will be at 8 o'clock on Monday after the Singapore Grand Prix.
[49:45.840 -> 49:50.200] So 8pm on the Monday after the Singapore Grand Prix. You can buy a ticket for that live audience
[49:50.200 -> 49:56.080] with Joe and the content is dictated by your questions. But for you, Joe, you will be on
[49:56.080 -> 49:59.840] European time in Singapore, but it will actually be 3 o'clock in the morning for you. So I
[49:59.840 -> 50:07.600] am looking forward to a hopefully veenoed up, delirious and very freely liberal speaking
[50:07.600 -> 50:08.600] joke.
[50:08.600 -> 50:09.600] Well, the thing is that people...
[50:09.600 -> 50:13.680] Actually, it's quite a good idea to do that because then you'll see that at three o'clock
[50:13.680 -> 50:15.420] in the morning...
[50:15.420 -> 50:19.860] I'm working at three o'clock in the morning quite often, so it's not a problem for me
[50:19.860 -> 50:20.860] to do it.
[50:20.860 -> 50:27.160] I mean, it will be the third consecutive night I'll have been working quite
[50:23.840 -> 50:31.160] late so I might be a little bit, I guess,
[50:27.160 -> 50:32.840] normal. But that's what you
[50:31.160 -> 50:34.360] want, that's the Joe you want when
[50:32.840 -> 50:35.480] you're asking questions. That's true, but then
[50:34.360 -> 50:36.880] the following day I've got to do the
[50:35.480 -> 50:38.920] same thing again because I've got to be
[50:36.880 -> 50:41.200] on a flight to Japan at some unearthly
[50:38.920 -> 50:44.520] hour of the morning. So I won't actually
[50:41.200 -> 50:47.480] get any sleep until about Thursday when
[50:44.520 -> 50:46.120] I'm in Japan.
[50:46.120 -> 50:51.320] Well we'll put some links for that in the show notes for that live audience or follow
[50:51.320 -> 50:54.960] Joe's publications where I'm sure he will publish details as well.
[50:54.960 -> 50:59.880] Speaking of your publications, this last question features that, Ross says, in Joe's recent
[50:59.880 -> 51:06.120] publications he seemed certain that an Andretti Cadillac team would fail if admitted to the
[51:06.120 -> 51:11.360] grid. Why does he feel that way? And if not Andretti Cadillac, what American team manufacturer
[51:11.360 -> 51:17.000] or manufacturers could succeed in Formula One? Why have you written them off, Joe?
[51:17.000 -> 51:21.500] Well, because I think they don't have a realistic view of what it takes to be successful in
[51:21.500 -> 51:26.640] Formula One. And that may appear to may be, it may appear to be unkind.
[51:26.640 -> 51:27.200] That's harsh.
[51:27.560 -> 51:28.440] No, it's not harsh.
[51:28.440 -> 51:31.960] It's just that people racing in foot in America don't have a clue what it
[51:31.960 -> 51:33.600] takes to be successful in Formula One.
[51:33.600 -> 51:34.320] They're all the same.
[51:35.280 -> 51:38.480] I know back in the seventies, back in the seventies, they could
[51:38.480 -> 51:40.160] turn up over here and do it.
[51:40.600 -> 51:41.680] But not nowadays.
[51:41.800 -> 51:44.200] Nowadays it is an industrial effort.
[51:44.320 -> 51:45.700] And if you think you can build cars
[51:45.700 -> 51:51.840] in America and fly them across to places all over the world, and you're going to be successful,
[51:51.840 -> 51:59.040] you are dreaming. Secondly, they don't have a relationship with Cadillac that is contractually
[51:59.040 -> 52:09.220] solid. In other words, Cadillac have not said they'll build an engine for Definite. If Cadillac is going to come into Formula One to build their own engine, my view would
[52:09.220 -> 52:15.000] be if you sit down and think about it, why in the name of God would you go with Andretti
[52:15.000 -> 52:16.000] to start with?
[52:16.000 -> 52:17.000] It's insane.
[52:17.000 -> 52:21.040] You'd go with a team because that takes out all the risk, because you at least will
[52:21.040 -> 52:30.160] know where you stand with a team that's tried and tested. It's much wiser to go with McLaren and to find out where you are in the pecking order
[52:30.160 -> 52:32.920] than go with a new team where you don't know what's wrong.
[52:32.920 -> 52:39.040] So I don't see why Cadillac would go with Andretti apart from obviously branding, marketing,
[52:39.040 -> 52:40.040] etc.
[52:40.040 -> 52:49.440] But I think that they have a naive view of Formula One, and I think that the last thing that anybody
[52:49.440 -> 52:55.200] wants, the last thing that Formula One needs, is an American team that fails. And actually,
[52:55.200 -> 53:01.280] Formula One Group, I would argue, is trying to protect Andretti from itself. Now, they may not
[53:01.280 -> 53:06.860] agree with that, and I'm sure Andretti wouldn't agree with that because they have this, this set view that we can do it.
[53:07.300 -> 53:11.160] Well, you know, good luck with that, but I don't think you'll be given the
[53:11.160 -> 53:15.840] chance to do it because I think Formula One needs to protect itself as well.
[53:16.380 -> 53:21.560] Because what don't need is to have a weakling team that will take five years,
[53:21.720 -> 53:25.920] at least to get up to the level required.
[53:25.920 -> 53:28.340] And it doesn't need it.
[53:28.340 -> 53:33.020] If Michael and co want to come into Formula One, really, it's still the best way of doing
[53:33.020 -> 53:34.020] is to buy a team.
[53:34.020 -> 53:38.580] I know it's difficult to buy a team and it's expensive, but in the overall scheme of things,
[53:38.580 -> 53:43.320] it's probably no more expensive than trying to do it the hard way.
[53:43.320 -> 53:46.080] And okay, you have to make compromises, you don't have things how
[53:46.080 -> 53:51.760] you want them to be, but it's really not easy. And I think that people who think it is easy,
[53:51.760 -> 53:57.280] like Alpine, Toyota, et cetera, there's a lot of people who've made that mistake in the past.
[53:57.280 -> 54:01.280] And I think Andretti is another one that could do the same mistake.
[54:01.280 -> 54:08.560] Yeah. A couple of follow-ups here from the live chat. Firstly, just to clear up, wasn't Cadillac,
[54:08.560 -> 54:12.720] they're not doing their own engine at first, they are just rebadging and Alpine to start with, right?
[54:13.360 -> 54:13.840] Right, okay.
[54:13.840 -> 54:17.840] But if they're doing their own engine in the future, they need to start declaring it now
[54:17.840 -> 54:22.160] because they have a, there's a lead in time, they can't do it now before 27,
[54:23.440 -> 54:25.360] because you have restrictions on what
[54:25.360 -> 54:26.880] you can do if you declare you're coming in.
[54:26.880 -> 54:35.440] So from an engine manufacturer point of view, isn't that just a little silly and embarrassing,
[54:35.440 -> 54:36.440] just to slap your name on the red?
[54:36.440 -> 54:40.520] I don't get it, but look at Honda and Aston Martin, I don't get that either.
[54:40.520 -> 54:43.320] But at least Honda is an experienced Formula 1 team.
[54:43.320 -> 54:46.320] Sorry, what does Honda and Aston Martin have in common?
[54:46.320 -> 54:47.320] Nothing.
[54:47.320 -> 54:48.800] Do they sell any product together?
[54:48.800 -> 54:49.800] No.
[54:49.800 -> 54:52.360] Are they the same level of panache?
[54:52.360 -> 54:53.360] No.
[54:53.360 -> 54:55.600] So what the hell are they doing together?
[54:55.600 -> 54:59.880] It's called a marriage of convenience, and that's all it is.
[54:59.880 -> 55:09.880] So at the end of the day, who knows what'll happen. But I think it would be wisest for Andretti and co just to sit back, take a deep breath
[55:09.880 -> 55:15.860] and wait for a team to go on the market, because one will eventually.
[55:15.860 -> 55:18.400] When Audi get bored of pretending to be selling.
[55:18.400 -> 55:20.980] No, it could be before then.
[55:20.980 -> 55:22.840] It could be an Audi situation.
[55:22.840 -> 55:26.480] McLaren could implode because it could implode.
[55:26.480 -> 55:29.040] Now, Williams could go wrong.
[55:29.040 -> 55:35.400] There's lots of things, Alfa Tauri, Red Bull could get fed up with Alfa Tauri or Aston
[55:35.400 -> 55:36.400] Martin.
[55:36.400 -> 55:41.160] You know, Aston Martin's an obvious likelihood because it's really team Stroll, isn't it?
[55:41.160 -> 55:45.640] So you know, there's lots of I was sure Joe I was assured
[55:45.640 -> 55:50.440] that that the fact that Lawrence stroll is in there is only slightly
[55:50.440 -> 55:54.680] coincidentally because Lance stroll is in and that he's got genuine passion and
[55:54.680 -> 55:59.080] it's not really just about time he likes burning money too did he say that
[55:59.080 -> 56:04.280] wherever it was I was telling you this listen that's the teams that is team
[56:04.280 -> 56:06.480] stroll and the Aston Martin thing is a good
[56:06.480 -> 56:10.280] way to try and make some money on the back of it. It's not working at the moment, it
[56:10.280 -> 56:15.960] might work in the future and good for them if it does. But the question of whether Lance
[56:15.960 -> 56:22.600] Stroll is good enough to be in a top team is another issue.
[56:22.600 -> 56:26.200] Well I think we will cut our losses there. We will thank the French internet gods for
[56:26.200 -> 56:31.680] what they have provided thus far. Go and follow Joe at Joe Sayward on Twitter. We'll put links
[56:31.680 -> 56:37.400] to his publications because he does the best post-race travel log style review of the weekend,
[56:37.400 -> 56:42.440] which is your green notebook. And also you do a GP Plus magazine, which is not just what
[56:42.440 -> 56:49.180] happened in the race. There's great features in there as well. You subscribe to a whole year at a time and it's a steal. How much is a whole year of GP Plus magazine?
[56:49.180 -> 56:51.980] £39.99. It's an absolute giveaway.
[56:51.980 -> 56:54.620] And that's for the whole season. That's for the whole season.
[56:54.620 -> 56:59.100] So you'll get the back catalogue of PDFs as well if you order them now from the whole season.
[56:59.100 -> 57:01.100] I'm quite a good salesman here.
[57:01.100 -> 57:03.100] You've missed out the most. You missed out on TSPM as well, you know.
[57:03.100 -> 57:09.400] Which is the weekly newsletter that tells you all the good stuff that's going to happen
[57:09.400 -> 57:12.980] and analyses the stuff that is happening at the same time.
[57:12.980 -> 57:15.960] That costs more money, as Spanners has rightly said, but no.
[57:15.960 -> 57:21.720] You want to go down to the pub and really dazzle your friends, this is the one to get.
[57:21.720 -> 57:26.320] That's the one where actually I try, because I try not to use that information on the show.
[57:26.320 -> 57:27.680] I go, where did I hear that from?
[57:27.680 -> 57:29.360] Oh yeah, that was on Joe's newsletter.
[57:29.360 -> 57:32.520] So I don't want to like try and break things for you if you like.
[57:32.520 -> 57:38.160] But the live audience is an opportunity to hang out with me and Uncle Joe over Zoom.
[57:38.160 -> 57:41.440] We usually limit to about 50 or 55 people.
[57:41.440 -> 57:47.280] So come and ask Joe a question and it's run and dictated
[57:47.280 -> 57:52.320] by your input. So if it's rubbish, it's it's their fault Joe, it's not our fault.
[57:52.320 -> 57:59.800] It's rubbish, it's never rubbish. It's as close to the in-person experience as you
[57:59.800 -> 58:03.560] could get and we've always had really really good feedback from that, so get
[58:03.560 -> 58:09.600] your ticket for that now. Joe, thank you very much for your time. I will leave you to prepare for the flight to Singapore,
[58:09.600 -> 58:13.680] and until we see you next, work hard, be kind, and have fun.
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