Inside F1 with Joe Saward: October 25th 2023

Spanners is Joined by veteran F1 Journalist Joe Saward.

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**Summary of the Podcast Episode Transcript**

**Inside F1 with Joe Saward**

* **Host:** Richard Ready (Spanners)
* **Guest:** Joe Saward, veteran F1 journalist

**Key Points:**

* **Scrutinizing the Scrutineering Process:**
* Scrutineering is a process to check if any teams have violated the rules.
* Scrutineering can be random or targeted based on suspicions or observations.
* Scrutineering can cause delays in race results and magazine production.
* The plank violation in Austin was due to excessive wear, possibly caused by the sprint format.
* There is a tendency to scrutinize faster cars more often.

* **Sprint Race Format:**
* Sprint races were introduced to increase viewership and bring in more revenue.
* They create two opportunities for exciting moments and different race strategies.
* However, sprint races can dilute the overall quality of the race weekend.
* Drivers may be less willing to take risks in sprint races to avoid compromising their position in the main race.
* Sprint races can lead to more safety car periods due to increased incidents.
* The FIA is experimenting with different sprint race formats and tracks.

* **Keeping Secrets in Formula One:**
* There are always secrets and confidential information in Formula One.
* Keeping secrets is challenging due to the interconnected nature of the paddock.
* Journalists and insiders often rely on hints and educated guesses to uncover stories.
* Teams have become more cautious in sharing information to maintain secrecy.
* Social media and mobile phones make it harder to keep information confidential.

* **Helmut Marko's Future at Red Bull:**
* Helmut Marko is a colorful and experienced figure in Formula One.
* He is known for his outspoken comments and controversial remarks.
* Marko's contract with Red Bull runs until the end of 2023.
* There are rumors that he may leave Red Bull earlier than expected.
* Marko's departure could impact the team's dynamics and public image.
* His relationship with Dietrich Mateschitz, the co-founder of Red Bull, is a factor in his position.

* **Lance Stroll's Career Prospects:**
* Lance Stroll's performance in 2022 has been disappointing.
* There is speculation that he may leave Aston Martin at the end of 2023.
* Stroll's lack of enthusiasm and motivation have been questioned.
* He has been outperformed by his teammate, Fernando Alonso.
* Stroll's position in the team is supported by his father, Lawrence Stroll, the team owner.
* However, his continued presence may be untenable given his poor results.

* **Fan Behavior and Booing in Formula One:**
* There have been instances of booing directed at Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen.
* Some fans engage in friendly booing as a form of pantomime or playful banter.
* However, some booing can be excessive, disrespectful, and带有种族主义色彩。
* Booing can create a hostile and unpleasant atmosphere for drivers and fans.
* It is important to maintain a respectful and sportsmanlike environment in Formula One.

**Overall Message:**

The podcast episode delves into various aspects of Formula One, including the intricacies of scrutineering, the pros and cons of the sprint race format, the challenges of keeping secrets in the paddock, the uncertain future of Helmut Marko at Red Bull, Lance Stroll's struggles and potential departure from Aston Martin, and the issue of fan behavior and booing in Formula One. The discussion provides insights and perspectives from experienced F1 journalist Joe Saward, offering a deeper understanding of the sport's dynamics and controversies. **Summary of the Podcast Episode Transcript:**

1. **Introduction:**

- Joe Saward, a veteran F1 journalist, joins the podcast.


2. **The Booing Controversy in Austin:**

- During the United States Grand Prix in Austin, Sergio Perez was booed by some fans during the podium ceremony.
- Joe believes the booing was disrespectful towards Perez, especially considering his outstanding performance in the race.
- The booing may have been influenced by the ongoing controversy surrounding Perez's comments about Max Verstappen and his relationship with Red Bull.
- Joe fears that the booing could set a negative precedent for future Mexican Grand Prix events.


3. **Las Vegas Grand Prix:**

- Joe discusses the upcoming Las Vegas Grand Prix, scheduled for November 2023.
- He mentions that ticket prices have come down, making it more affordable for fans to attend.
- Joe predicts that Las Vegas will be a "zoo" during the race weekend due to the high level of excitement and the presence of celebrities.
- He suggests that fans consider staying near a monorail line to avoid traffic congestion.


4. **Andretti's Entry into Formula One:**

- A listener asks Joe about the possibility of Andretti Autosport entering Formula One.
- Joe explains that Formula One is not a closed sport, and teams can join by purchasing an existing team or creating a new one.
- However, new teams face significant challenges in terms of competitiveness and financial stability.
- Joe believes that Andretti could have purchased Sauber but the deal fell through.
- He also discusses the involvement of Audi in Sauber and their plans to eventually take over the team.
- Joe expresses skepticism about new teams being able to develop competitive engines, citing the difficulties faced by teams like Renault and Honda.
- He highlights Red Bull's significant investment in their powertrain division and their efforts to develop a competitive engine for 2026.


5. **FIA's Authority and Liberty Media's Role:**

- Joe clarifies that the FIA and Liberty Media (FOM) must agree on new team entries into Formula One.
- While the FIA has the authority to approve entries, FOM has the commercial rights and can block entries if they deem them not beneficial to the sport.
- Joe emphasizes that FOM's approval is essential for new teams to compete in Formula One.
- He explains that the FIA relies heavily on Formula One revenue and cannot survive without it.
- Joe suggests that if the FIA were to fall out with Formula One, it would face financial difficulties and would likely come back to the negotiating table. **Summary of the Podcast Episode Transcript:**

The podcast episode features veteran F1 journalist Joe Saward in conversation with the host. They discuss various topics related to Formula One, including:

1. **FIA Statements and Patronage:**
- Joe Saward highlights that statements made by the FIA president often reflect their personal views rather than the collective opinion of the organization.
- Federations, like the FIA, are often characterized by patronage systems, where individuals owe their positions to the president.
- This can lead to a lack of transparency and accountability within the organization.

2. **Voting Power in the FIA:**
- Saward criticizes the current voting system in the FIA, where small countries with minimal motorsport activity have the same voting power as larger countries with significant involvement in the sport.
- He suggests that this system is illogical and leads to unfair representation.

3. **McLaren's Resurgence:**
- Saward cautions against getting carried away with McLaren's recent resurgence.
- He believes that while McLaren has made progress, the gaps between teams are still significant, and it is too early to predict if they can consistently challenge for the top positions.
- He emphasizes the importance of Red Bull's continued dominance and the need for other teams to improve their performance to close the gap.

4. **Impact of Wind Tunnel Testing Regulations:**
- Saward discusses the aerodynamic testing regulations that restrict the wind tunnel time for the top teams.
- He explains that this is intended to level the playing field and allow smaller teams to catch up.
- However, he acknowledges that this can also lead to less exciting racing, as teams may be less inclined to take risks and push the boundaries of innovation.

5. **The Importance of Grip in Racing:**
- Saward argues that reducing grip levels in Formula One would lead to closer racing and more overtaking opportunities.
- He believes that the current high levels of grip make it difficult for drivers to follow closely and make overtaking maneuvers.
- He suggests that reducing grip would make the cars more challenging to drive and create more exciting racing.

6. **The Future of Formula One:**
- Saward expresses his belief that Formula One is moving towards a more level playing field, with teams becoming closer in terms of performance.
- He attributes this to the aerodynamic testing regulations and the budget cap, which are designed to reduce the financial advantage of the top teams.
- He predicts that this will lead to more competitive racing and make it more difficult for any one team to dominate the sport.

7. **The Potential Resurgence of Williams:**
- Saward acknowledges that Williams has shown signs of improvement in the 2022 season.
- He highlights the arrival of talented personnel at Williams, such as James Vowles and other experienced individuals, as a positive sign for the team's future.
- He believes that Williams has the potential to move up the grid and become a competitive midfield team in the coming years.

8. **The Debate Surrounding Pay Drivers:**
- Saward addresses the ongoing debate about pay drivers in Formula One.
- He argues that there are no true pay drivers in the current grid, as teams do not directly benefit financially from having a driver who brings sponsorship.
- He emphasizes that drivers like Logan Sargeant are selected based on merit and potential, rather than their financial backing.

9. **The Development of Young Drivers:**
- Saward discusses the importance of developing young drivers and providing them with opportunities to gain experience and improve their skills.
- He cites the example of Alex Albon, who was dropped by Red Bull but has since proven himself as a capable driver with Williams.
- He emphasizes the need for teams to invest in young talent and give them the chance to succeed.

10. **The Importance of Mental Toughness:**
- Saward stresses the significance of mental toughness for racing drivers.
- He believes that mental resilience is crucial for drivers to overcome challenges, handle pressure, and perform consistently.
- He acknowledges that Alex Albon's experiences, including being dropped by Red Bull, have contributed to his mental toughness and made him a stronger driver.

Overall, the podcast episode provides insightful perspectives on various aspects of Formula One, including the challenges faced by teams, the impact of regulations, the development of young drivers, and the importance of mental toughness in the sport. # Inside F1 with Joe Saward: An In-Depth Conversation on the World of Formula One Racing

## Introduction

In this episode of the Missed Apex podcast, host Spanners is joined by veteran Formula One journalist Joe Saward for an insightful discussion on the world of Formula One racing. The podcast delves into various aspects of the sport, including controversies, key moments, and the latest developments.

## Joe Saward's Expertise and Insights

Joe Saward, with his extensive experience in Formula One journalism, provides valuable insights throughout the podcast. He shares his observations and opinions on a range of topics, including:

- The controversies surrounding the sport, such as the recent incidents involving Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton.
- The key moments that have shaped the current landscape of Formula One, including the rise of Red Bull and the dominance of Mercedes in recent years.
- The latest developments in the sport, such as the introduction of new regulations and the impact of technology on Formula One racing.

## Controversies and Notable Moments

The podcast highlights several controversies and notable moments that have occurred in Formula One history. Joe Saward offers his perspective on these incidents, providing a deeper understanding of the context and significance of each event.

- **The Verstappen-Hamilton Rivalry:** Joe Saward discusses the intense rivalry between Max Verstappen and Lewis Hamilton, analyzing their on-track battles and the controversies that have arisen from their competitive spirit.

- **The Rise of Red Bull:** Joe Saward examines the rise of Red Bull Racing, tracing their journey from a midfield team to one of the most dominant forces in Formula One. He discusses the key factors behind their success and the impact they have had on the sport.

- **The Dominance of Mercedes:** Joe Saward analyzes the dominance of Mercedes in recent years, highlighting their technological prowess and the role of Lewis Hamilton in their success. He explores the challenges faced by other teams in competing with Mercedes and the potential for a shift in the balance of power in the future.

## The Impact of Technology on Formula One

The podcast also explores the significant impact of technology on Formula One racing. Joe Saward discusses the advancements in car design, engine performance, and data analysis that have transformed the sport.

- **Car Design and Aerodynamics:** Joe Saward explains the intricate details of car design and aerodynamics in Formula One, emphasizing their importance in achieving speed and efficiency. He highlights the continuous evolution of car designs and the role of wind tunnels in developing cutting-edge technology.

- **Engine Performance:** Joe Saward delves into the complexities of engine performance in Formula One, discussing the different types of engines used, the role of fuel efficiency, and the impact of engine regulations on the sport. He also touches on the transition to hybrid engines and the challenges faced by teams in adapting to these new technologies.

- **Data Analysis and Telemetry:** Joe Saward sheds light on the extensive use of data analysis and telemetry in Formula One. He explains how teams collect and analyze vast amounts of data to gain insights into car performance, driver performance, and race strategy. He emphasizes the importance of data interpretation and the role of data engineers in making informed decisions during races.

## Conclusion

The podcast concludes with a brief summary of the key points discussed, emphasizing the significance of Formula One as a global sport and the ongoing evolution of the sport. Joe Saward's expertise and insights provide a comprehensive overview of the world of Formula One racing, making this episode a valuable resource for fans and enthusiasts of the sport.

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[01:33.000 -> 01:36.500] You are listening to Missed Apex Podcast.
[01:36.500 -> 01:56.560] We live at one. Welcome to Missed Apex podcast. It's Inside F1 with Joe Sawa today. I'm your host Richard
[01:56.560 -> 02:01.720] Ready but my friends call me Spanners. So let's be friends. Today, as always on Inside
[02:01.720 -> 02:06.720] F1, I am joined by one of the most experienced F1 journalists in F1
[02:06.720 -> 02:13.840] history. He's reported on every Grand Prix since before there was last a plank-related disqualification.
[02:13.840 -> 02:16.080] It's Joe Seawood. Hey Joe.
[02:16.080 -> 02:19.280] Hello. Good evening. Actually, no, it's only good afternoon where I am.
[02:19.280 -> 02:19.680] Yes.
[02:19.680 -> 02:21.520] It's evening where you are, isn't it?
[02:21.520 -> 02:25.120] Due to a discrepancy in time zones it is 10pm and I am definitely
[02:25.120 -> 02:31.520] in the sleepy and sherry zone of the UK but it's an honour and fantastic joy to speak
[02:31.520 -> 02:35.940] to you and I've got some listener questions to throw at you as well but can you believe
[02:35.940 -> 02:40.820] none of them have asked about scrutineering. So the first question is from young Richard
[02:40.820 -> 02:48.320] Reddy in Essex now. I was so surprised, Joe, by the scrutineering process.
[02:48.320 -> 02:52.400] I didn't understand any of it. I didn't know it wasn't random. I didn't know they didn't
[02:52.400 -> 02:57.680] check everything. I had no idea. And then I went back and I read all the FIA reports,
[02:57.680 -> 03:00.960] because I was just so surprised by the whole process. I went and read all the reports from
[03:00.960 -> 03:09.440] every Grand Prix, and they really do provide a lot of information, and it's nothing like I thought it was. That's true. I mean, scrutineering is…
[03:09.440 -> 03:14.480] well, there's various bits of scrutineering. There's pre-race scrutineering and post-race
[03:14.480 -> 03:19.280] scrutineering. And the sole intention is to find out if anyone's been up to no good.
[03:19.280 -> 03:27.980] Now, in the case of Austin, we found that the planks had been worn out, which is actually probably
[03:27.980 -> 03:34.200] the fault of the sprint format, because there's only one hour of time in which to get everything
[03:34.200 -> 03:39.920] done and I think some of the teams probably didn't. And Austin's a very bumpy track, so
[03:39.920 -> 03:44.740] as they go whizzing over those curbs and bumps, they grind bits off the car, the bottom end
[03:44.740 -> 03:45.200] of the car, and bottom end of the car,
[03:45.840 -> 03:50.560] and that's what the problem was. And it wasn't a huge amount in terms of milled meters, but you
[03:50.560 -> 03:55.120] know, there's a reason that the planks are there, and that is to stop the cars riding low,
[03:55.680 -> 04:02.400] because obviously that has advantages. So, and if you're out, you're out. And I don't know
[04:03.520 -> 04:06.160] what would have happened if they tested more cars. They
[04:06.160 -> 04:10.320] probably would have found a lot more that had been ground down too, but they only tested
[04:10.320 -> 04:16.120] four I believe. So do you speak to that? Unfortunately, they did test Lewis Hamilton and Charles de
[04:16.120 -> 04:23.880] Clare. So you wipe out two of the top runners. Well, I was chatting with Scarbs because he
[04:23.880 -> 04:26.080] knows more than me. and I said to him,
[04:26.080 -> 04:31.040] is it random or how do they decide who they scrutineer? And he went, oh, I don't know either.
[04:31.040 -> 04:36.720] And I think not many people did know. His best guess was, if you're in a fast car, you're more
[04:36.720 -> 04:43.040] likely to get checked. So that was the point that triggered me to read every report. And only once
[04:43.040 -> 04:45.920] before the US Grand Prix has a podium car been checked,
[04:45.920 -> 04:52.080] and that was Lewis Hamilton P2 in Spain. So one of our guys who has done a bit of marshalling
[04:52.080 -> 04:57.200] suggested that actually, you know, the scrutineering team might take reports from other teams or look
[04:57.200 -> 05:02.800] at onboards to kind of think, oh, well, they looked a bit dodgy or bouncy, we should check them.
[05:02.800 -> 05:06.000] I can't imagine it would have made the two or
[05:06.000 -> 05:10.000] three millimeters involved, I'm not sure it would have made any difference at all. And I don't think
[05:10.000 -> 05:15.040] you could spot it. So I think that might be a little bit looking for things that aren't there.
[05:15.040 -> 05:19.360] I think in general terms, it's kind of random. But obviously, yes, there is a tendency to look
[05:19.360 -> 05:26.140] at the fast guys, because they're the ones who would have most likely have bent the rules.
[05:26.220 -> 05:29.380] I'm sure in both cases, this is not deliberate.
[05:29.880 -> 05:32.880] It's just, you know, nobody wants to get busted, do they?
[05:32.960 -> 05:34.680] It doesn't help you. You don't get any points
[05:34.760 -> 05:37.560] and you get bad publicity, so it's not a great thing to be doing.
[05:39.020 -> 05:41.820] And so, they get thrown out, they lose their points,
[05:41.900 -> 05:44.600] Formula One looks silly, and off we go again to next week
[05:44.660 -> 05:49.600] where we can do other silly things. I was angry and I'm looking for conspiracies, but actually,
[05:49.600 -> 05:54.880] no, more than anything, I was just really interested to sort of learn more about the process. Do you
[05:54.880 -> 05:59.680] get in there? Do you speak to the scrutineering guys at all? I don't have time after a race. I'm
[05:59.680 -> 06:08.040] far too busy producing magazines to talk to people, and they're too busy to talk to me. So basically, that is a process
[06:08.040 -> 06:11.040] that's going on simultaneously to everybody writing stories.
[06:11.720 -> 06:14.720] And, you know, an awful lot of people, particularly with the
[06:14.720 -> 06:18.440] Americas, if you think about deadlines for newspapers and
[06:18.440 -> 06:21.880] things, everyone's filing away frantically for Monday's
[06:22.160 -> 06:26.600] newspapers. And then they suddenly after the deadlines are all shut, and the
[06:26.600 -> 06:31.220] papers are gone to press, they suddenly discover that two of
[06:31.220 -> 06:33.980] the leading members are no longer there. So their stories
[06:33.980 -> 06:36.080] are absolute rubbish. And there's nothing they can do
[06:36.080 -> 06:38.440] about it. So I don't know if there's an easy way around this
[06:38.440 -> 06:42.760] process. Probably not. But that's always been the case. And
[06:42.760 -> 06:47.200] it did mess me around a bit because obviously, if there is a problem, then there's
[06:47.200 -> 06:49.280] a delay because stewards have got to look at it and blah,
[06:49.280 -> 06:55.440] blah, blah. And so the magazine production process goes a bit
[06:55.440 -> 07:01.080] haywire. And it does also mean a very nasty, long, long night
[07:01.120 -> 07:04.200] producing everything in the time available. And it was and you'll
[07:04.200 -> 07:05.040] have noticed as a
[07:05.040 -> 07:10.880] reader of JSBM newsletter, that that was some hours behind schedule, simply because I couldn't
[07:10.880 -> 07:17.200] do it any faster. And as a viewer of the Mistapex YouTube channel, Joe, you would have sympathized
[07:17.200 -> 07:21.920] with us finding out at half past one on a live stream, half past one in the morning,
[07:21.920 -> 07:27.600] I was sat here when that news came in. I did not take it well. And then I woke up and I was in-
[07:27.600 -> 07:33.960] I did hear some Fleet Street Boys ranting and raving when they realised that their stories
[07:33.960 -> 07:40.520] had all been total tosh. Complaining about why can't it be done faster? That's a good
[07:40.520 -> 07:45.200] question but that's the joy of time zones we're discovering today.
[07:45.200 -> 07:49.680] Well, yeah, I mean, I fully recorded the Ringer podcast in the can published
[07:49.680 -> 07:54.800] before they made that decision. I mean, it's unfortunate, but it's such a rare occurrence that
[07:54.800 -> 08:00.480] a car fails for a plank violation that you kind of just, let's chalk that one up to bad luck,
[08:00.480 -> 08:05.360] to the track, to life, and see if it becomes, if it was to become persistent and
[08:05.360 -> 08:07.680] a problem, then look at it for a one-off, it doesn't matter.
[08:07.680 -> 08:13.200] Well, I think it might become persistent if the sprint race format, I mean, they are going
[08:13.200 -> 08:18.880] to keep the sprint race format because obviously it brings in more viewers, but it means that
[08:18.880 -> 08:23.600] the teams are going to have to spend a little bit of time working out in that very brief
[08:23.600 -> 08:25.600] period of time, they get one hour to do everything.
[08:26.960 -> 08:30.400] They're trying to test tyres, they're trying to do this, they're trying to do that, and so they're
[08:30.400 -> 08:34.960] going to now need to check the wear rates on the underside of the cars to make sure that doesn't
[08:34.960 -> 08:39.520] get them in trouble again. Ah, which brings us to our first listener question, Joe.
[08:51.000 -> 08:57.680] Young David asks, has the sprint race experiment run its course? Is there any likelihood to major revision of the format in 2024, brackets, please God no, please no, close brackets,
[08:57.680 -> 09:01.760] their removal from the calendar altogether would be preferable. Any hope?
[09:01.760 -> 09:10.000] They're not going to be removed from the calendar next year. It's very simple because they produce more reading rather than viewing numbers.
[09:10.000 -> 09:13.000] And the viewing numbers are what dictate the money.
[09:13.000 -> 09:16.000] And the money is what dictates what happens.
[09:16.000 -> 09:18.000] So it's going to go on happening.
[09:18.000 -> 09:21.000] I have to say I think it's a nightmare.
[09:21.000 -> 09:23.000] Some of the drivers don't like it.
[09:23.000 -> 09:28.200] But it does mean we have a really interesting problem with it
[09:28.240 -> 09:33.000] because you have qualifying on the Friday for the main race on
[09:33.000 -> 09:35.080] Sunday, and then you have Saturday completely different.
[09:35.360 -> 09:38.680] When you're trying to structure an old fashioned magazine, which
[09:38.680 -> 09:43.120] bit goes first? Because if you write the qualifying, and then
[09:43.120 -> 09:47.920] you have the sprint, and then you have the race, people have forgotten by the time they get to the race what had happened in the qualifying.
[09:49.200 -> 09:54.880] And so we concluded that we just put the whole of the sprint race in front of the
[09:54.880 -> 10:00.400] qualifying, even if time-wise it happened after what's going to read about later. I mean, it's
[10:00.400 -> 10:06.880] just a silly thing, but it is a problem. However, you know, it brings in more numbers.
[10:06.880 -> 10:10.200] So numbers is what's important.
[10:10.200 -> 10:14.280] If I had to, I hate the sprint format because I just think it dilutes it.
[10:14.280 -> 10:20.680] And yeah, there's more stuff, but every individual bit is less good than if there was just, you
[10:20.680 -> 10:22.880] know, practice, qualifying and Grand Prix.
[10:22.880 -> 10:26.080] I suppose if you want to defend it slightly, you get two rolls of the dice
[10:26.400 -> 10:27.840] for something interesting happening.
[10:28.080 -> 10:29.480] That's the only slight defense.
[10:29.480 -> 10:30.360] You get two starts.
[10:30.440 -> 10:36.560] And two starts means that you've got more potential for things to happen.
[10:36.560 -> 10:41.080] However, I think the downside of it, certainly you don't want to do it at
[10:41.080 -> 10:43.760] tracks where you can't overtake because that's a complete waste of energy.
[10:44.160 -> 10:45.920] If you did sprint
[10:45.920 -> 10:50.560] race at Monaco, it would just be silly. And there are a number
[10:50.560 -> 10:53.680] of tracks where you can't overtake, or it's very difficult
[10:53.680 -> 10:57.120] anyway. The other thing is that drivers are not going to take
[10:57.120 -> 11:00.160] risks in the sprint race, even if there's points available.
[11:00.800 -> 11:03.600] They're not going to take risks that will take away from their
[11:03.600 -> 11:06.640] ability to earn more points on Sunday.
[11:06.640 -> 11:14.800] So there is a level of which they behave themselves more than they would on Sunday because they
[11:14.800 -> 11:16.360] don't want to root their car.
[11:16.360 -> 11:18.520] Yeah, but that's not good.
[11:18.520 -> 11:19.520] That's not what you want.
[11:19.520 -> 11:20.520] That's the opposite of what you want.
[11:20.520 -> 11:21.800] You want drivers being able to go for it.
[11:21.800 -> 11:28.720] So when people say, oh, well, put the reserve drivers in, that's the last thing the teams will want to do. No, you don't want to be doing that
[11:28.720 -> 11:34.640] because then there'll be bits of carbon fibre all over the shop. So, you know, that's like hiring
[11:34.640 -> 11:41.200] a Roman Grosjean, isn't it? It's just, it's just, it's just, oh, Kevin Magnusson, actually, he's
[11:41.200 -> 11:45.520] good at front wings. You know, it's just not what you want.
[11:45.520 -> 11:49.760] And also, because you have all these shards of stuff all over the place, half the time is going
[11:49.760 -> 11:56.720] to be spent behind the safety car anyway. So you don't want that. So it's a balancing act. And this
[11:56.720 -> 12:02.400] is what they've concluded is the best idea for now. They will, they'll try out different tracks,
[12:02.400 -> 12:04.560] some different tracks next year, I think you'll find.
[12:05.000 -> 12:06.000] Really?
[12:06.000 -> 12:07.000] Yeah.
[12:07.000 -> 12:08.000] Tell us, Joe.
[12:08.000 -> 12:10.860] I can't possibly comment because I don't know.
[12:10.860 -> 12:12.760] You do know, you lie.
[12:12.760 -> 12:14.480] I might know, but I'm not allowed.
[12:14.480 -> 12:18.640] I've been sworn to internal secrecy until they announce it.
[12:18.640 -> 12:23.480] I can tell you that there will be one or two different sprint races next year.
[12:23.480 -> 12:28.640] Ah, I mean, you know, they will switch them around anyway,
[12:28.640 -> 12:34.000] but there are some others coming into the thing, which, I mean, to be honest,
[12:34.000 -> 12:37.840] sprint races are really hard work, particularly in Europe, where you've got the Formula Threes
[12:37.840 -> 12:43.680] and Formula Twos as well, which we report on in Grand Prix Plus. And that means that,
[12:44.320 -> 12:45.880] you know, you just never stop.
[12:45.920 -> 12:48.400] You're flat out all the time trying to get everything done.
[12:49.240 -> 12:52.840] And that's possibly why the F1 Academy race, probably next year,
[12:52.840 -> 12:56.440] you won't get much coverage because haven't got time to include everything.
[12:56.920 -> 12:59.920] So, you know, we don't do the Porsche Super Cup or anything like that.
[13:01.000 -> 13:02.920] Or the Coupe de Coiffure, as it's known.
[13:03.320 -> 13:03.560] Yeah.
[13:03.560 -> 13:05.440] And Porsche Super Cup on when they do it
[13:05.440 -> 13:10.160] like at Silverstone, that's not the... it's not a track for the Porsche Super Cup in a way, like
[13:10.160 -> 13:15.680] when they sort of shoehorn it into a big Grand Prix track, it can sort of look like they're...
[13:15.680 -> 13:21.040] I know in the car it will be very intense, but it can look like they're just a train following
[13:21.040 -> 13:26.000] around on a skeletric. Yeah, it can do, but those guys are all going for it,
[13:26.000 -> 13:31.840] to be fair. We do make fun of it and call it the hairdressers race, but you know,
[13:33.920 -> 13:40.320] that's what the coup de kraphe means, never mind. It's unfair to do that, but it's just funny,
[13:40.320 -> 13:46.900] you know, because there's all kinds of things. There's also the old, the old F1 car race and stuff like that.
[13:47.620 -> 13:52.780] But you know, there's if there's too much, we can't handle it,
[13:52.780 -> 13:56.860] let alone I mean, the spectators are kept amused, I'm sure. But
[13:56.860 -> 14:00.140] there are some races where you have literally something
[14:00.140 -> 14:02.700] happening every minute, and everybody gets sort of over
[14:02.820 -> 14:10.800] overwhelmed by it, you get all the stuff on the track, you have air displays and all this sort of stuff and it just becomes too much. You don't
[14:10.800 -> 14:15.600] get any rest at all. So you can't go off to have a hamburger until you miss something, you know.
[14:15.600 -> 14:19.840] Now you've nearly answered young Michael's question, but I'll ask it anyway. As I get you
[14:19.840 -> 14:24.560] to move your microphone slightly backwards, Joe, away from you, that's my fault. I got him to move
[14:24.560 -> 14:25.400] it forward
[14:25.400 -> 14:27.600] in the first place. Very hard to place so much mic.
[14:27.600 -> 14:29.100] I cannot go any further than that.
[14:29.100 -> 14:32.000] I can go backwards, but the microphone can't.
[14:32.000 -> 14:33.800] No, no, we'll be cool. We'll be fine.
[14:33.800 -> 14:37.800] So also we should tell people if you want to hang out on a live Zoom call
[14:37.800 -> 14:43.800] with one of Joe's live virtual audiences the day before the Brazilian Grand Prix event starts,
[14:43.800 -> 14:48.000] you can. So the next virtual audience with Joe has tickets on sale now.
[14:48.000 -> 14:52.200] We'll include the link in the show notes and I'll chuck it in the live chats now.
[14:52.200 -> 14:55.400] And we have about 50 of us. If you want to buy your seat there,
[14:55.400 -> 14:58.800] the content of the evening is dictated by your questions.
[14:58.800 -> 15:01.800] And we always have a lot of fun. I always crack a beer
[15:01.800 -> 15:08.380] and laugh at the questions as they come in to Uncle Joe, and I think they have been a roaring success with many returning
[15:08.380 -> 15:09.380] patrons, Joe.
[15:09.380 -> 15:15.140] So we're going to be doing that on November 2nd, Thursday, 8pm UK time, and we'll get
[15:15.140 -> 15:17.140] our time zones correct this time, Joe.
[15:17.140 -> 15:21.460] Yeah, well, Brazilian time is a bit early for a drink, you know, so...
[15:21.460 -> 15:22.900] You can push through, you can push through.
[15:22.900 -> 15:26.400] I'll wait until it's over, then I shall go and slam myself silly with caipirinhas.
[15:26.800 -> 15:31.040] Okay, so go and check that out and see if you fancy joining us for a live virtual audience with Joe
[15:31.040 -> 15:35.240] and I'm there as the MC pressing the buttons because Joe hasn't figured out how Zoom works yet.
[15:35.240 -> 15:37.320] Okay, Mike Stoner's question was,
[15:37.880 -> 15:41.520] he doesn't want to know the answer to the specifics,
[15:41.520 -> 15:45.920] but he says, do you have lots of things that you can't tell us?
[15:46.480 -> 15:51.760] But how much are you holding at any one time? Always, yeah, you always have things you know,
[15:52.320 -> 15:58.800] but you can only hint at them because people don't want the actual truth to come out. But you can,
[15:59.440 -> 16:07.640] otherwise, sometimes there are things where you need something to explain why something else is happening, but you can't say it directly.
[16:07.920 -> 16:12.920] So you can only hint at it. But yes, there's always bits and
[16:12.920 -> 16:18.120] pieces. I wouldn't say it was 80% of the content, I would say
[16:18.120 -> 16:21.440] it's about 5% of the content, because keeping a secret in
[16:21.440 -> 16:24.920] Formula One is really hard. Because everybody has got their
[16:24.920 -> 16:25.280] ear to the
[16:25.280 -> 16:31.600] ground. And there is a saying that if more than two people know something, it's never a secret.
[16:32.240 -> 16:37.120] Because you can always say it wasn't you who leaked it. When you've got three people,
[16:37.120 -> 16:44.720] it's one of two people who leak it, isn't it? And that really is true nowadays.
[16:46.800 -> 16:50.620] Um, and you know, that's, that really is true nowadays that, um, you know, even, even if you have contracts going down, you've still got lawyers who look at them
[16:50.620 -> 16:54.300] and, you know, and they can be sitting on the train talking to their missus on the
[16:54.300 -> 16:58.840] phone going, I was doing that dastardly mess I contacted the other day, you know,
[16:58.920 -> 17:01.360] and you'll be sitting in the next door seat going, oh, where were you?
[17:01.360 -> 17:02.160] No, it's interesting.
[17:02.760 -> 17:07.420] Things like that do happen weirdly, but, um, you know, people, people, I think some
[17:07.420 -> 17:13.300] people involved in Formula One in the extraneous areas like to talk about it
[17:13.300 -> 17:16.620] on mobile phones loudly to make themselves feel important or something.
[17:16.840 -> 17:19.380] But every so often I find myself in a situation to be able to
[17:19.380 -> 17:21.140] pick up on that, so that's marvellous, really.
[17:21.580 -> 17:21.860] Yeah.
[17:21.860 -> 17:23.460] And yeah, it's like farting in a lift.
[17:23.620 -> 17:23.780] Yeah.
[17:23.780 -> 17:28.080] If there's two, if there's two of you, you know it was the other one.
[17:28.080 -> 17:28.920] Not necessarily.
[17:28.920 -> 17:31.300] It could have been the one who got out of the fifth floor.
[17:31.300 -> 17:34.400] Do you think the teams are better at keeping secrets
[17:34.400 -> 17:35.000] nowadays?
[17:35.000 -> 17:38.400] Because there was one about very early on when you started
[17:38.400 -> 17:42.480] doing podcasts with us, and they were a little bit loose
[17:42.480 -> 17:45.680] about announcing that Red Bull were moving to Honda.
[17:45.680 -> 17:49.920] And just someone just on the shop floor just told me, just like DM'd me, just like,
[17:49.920 -> 17:54.160] hey, guess what? And then, and that, I think that's how it got leaked in the first place,
[17:54.160 -> 17:59.920] but no one cared because, you know, I'm not anyone. But I think since then, they've really
[17:59.920 -> 18:03.840] tightened up. So the same person that told me that, he said to me, oh, they don't tell us
[18:03.840 -> 18:06.320] anything anymore until it's like just about to be released.
[18:06.880 -> 18:11.120] Well, normally they always used to do that anyway, because the minute you have a conversation
[18:11.920 -> 18:17.120] to a team, it's open season. I mean, any kind of announcement in a factory, it's out there
[18:17.120 -> 18:21.920] straight away. I mean, it doesn't matter who it is that did it. So the minute you announce
[18:21.920 -> 18:29.000] something within a team, it's public information within with the internet, as it is nowadays,
[18:29.000 -> 18:32.840] literally within minutes, because people can send a text,
[18:32.840 -> 18:37.040] people can send a Twitter, whatever, you know, it's
[18:37.040 -> 18:40.720] instant. So yes, they I guess they've, they've, they don't
[18:40.760 -> 18:46.000] tell as many people in the business what's happening in order to try and keep
[18:46.000 -> 18:47.000] it quiet.
[18:47.000 -> 18:50.240] But the other thing about that, which is good, is that it forces them to make announcements
[18:50.240 -> 18:52.600] as soon as things are decided.
[18:52.600 -> 18:54.360] So it works both ways.
[18:54.360 -> 19:00.720] I'm all for being as open as possible, but obviously, if Red Bull is trying to remove
[19:00.720 -> 19:04.920] Sergio Perez, for example, they're not going to tell the world about it, are they?
[19:04.920 -> 19:10.480] Now, see, that's the next question. It's as if you can read my show notes Joe. No actually it's
[19:10.480 -> 19:17.360] slightly tangential to that. Adam S says is there any stock to the rumours that Helmut Marko will be
[19:17.360 -> 19:25.960] leaving Red Bull earlier than intended? Well his contract runs a year, He's saying, I'm not going anywhere. Is he? Earlier than intended.
[19:25.960 -> 19:29.440] He's 80 years old.
[19:29.440 -> 19:31.720] If he wants to go, he'll go.
[19:31.720 -> 19:34.620] If they want him to go, he'll probably still go.
[19:34.620 -> 19:35.620] Do they want him to go?
[19:35.620 -> 19:36.620] I don't know.
[19:36.620 -> 19:39.040] He has a value.
[19:39.040 -> 19:41.840] He keeps them in the papers.
[19:41.840 -> 19:42.840] That's for sure.
[19:42.840 -> 19:47.600] As much as Max Verstappen does, to be honest, because Helmut says something outrageous, and it
[19:47.600 -> 19:52.000] gets in the papers. So, you know, he has a value. He's also
[19:52.000 -> 19:57.960] a sort of a counterpoint to the smooth Christian Horner. And,
[19:58.000 -> 20:01.520] you know, it's kind of Punch and Judy show stuff, too. So, you
[20:01.520 -> 20:08.280] know, he's not, I mean, he is very experienced, his choice of drivers is sometimes a bit bizarre. But he
[20:08.280 -> 20:11.920] does know what he's doing. And to a large extent, I wouldn't
[20:11.920 -> 20:15.040] necessarily agree with all of his choices at any given time.
[20:15.480 -> 20:24.600] But, you know, he's part of the colorful tapestry of Formula
[20:24.600 -> 20:25.000] One.
[20:25.000 -> 20:28.000] And if we lose him, we lose a colourful character.
[20:28.000 -> 20:30.000] Oh yeah, I'll be devastated, Joe. Absolutely devastated.
[20:30.000 -> 20:33.000] But yeah, he takes the heat off of Christian Horner,
[20:33.000 -> 20:38.000] and whilst Dieter Maszalicz might have been more amenable to it...
[20:38.000 -> 20:39.000] Dietrich, oh boy, Dietrich.
[20:39.000 -> 20:42.000] What did I say, Dieter? I'm so sorry.
[20:42.000 -> 20:44.000] Ghastly word, Dieter. It's not the right one.
[20:44.000 -> 20:48.880] I beg your pardon. No disrespect intended, is that loving feeling towards Helmut Marko
[20:48.880 -> 20:52.640] still there in the parent company? Because obviously Marko doesn't work for Red Bull at all.
[20:54.320 -> 21:01.520] He does. He works on a contract with... it's a personal contract with, I believe,
[21:01.520 -> 21:07.680] with the company, not with... I mean, he was friends with Mateschitz. And I'm sure that he's very close to Mark
[21:07.680 -> 21:12.240] Mateschitz, who is the heir to the empire, who is a young man,
[21:12.320 -> 21:19.240] he's only 30 odd, who has 49% of the company. The other 51%
[21:19.240 -> 21:22.520] belong to people in Thailand. And so who knows what they think
[21:22.520 -> 21:26.400] about it. They do turn up. and I think they've probably got used to having
[21:26.400 -> 21:30.560] Helmut around, you know. So, yeah, we'll see if he comes up
[21:30.560 -> 21:34.880] with any sort of more racial slurs, I suppose you could call
[21:34.880 -> 21:40.300] it that. It's probably not a bright idea. But, you know, I
[21:40.300 -> 21:43.760] don't think Helmut's very good at this modern stuff. You know,
[21:44.240 -> 21:45.600] it's easy to get left behind, Joe.
[21:45.600 -> 21:48.880] He doesn't know what you can and can't say anymore.
[21:49.520 -> 21:52.880] When he's actually making a joke, of course, there is no humour on the internet.
[21:53.440 -> 21:57.680] So, you know, if you're making a joke, people don't understand that and they accuse you of this
[21:57.680 -> 22:02.240] and the other. So it's best not to make jokes on the internet because people don't get it.
[22:02.240 -> 22:04.560] I mean, don't say he's lazy because he's Mexican,
[22:04.560 -> 22:07.000] even if that's a joke joke that's not particularly funny. It's
[22:07.000 -> 22:10.600] a bit like saying that he hasn't got a sense of humor because he's a German
[22:10.600 -> 22:15.920] isn't it? Yeah okay I don't think that's a direct equivalent but we could argue
[22:15.920 -> 22:20.200] that all day long. So but the thing is there's been a big a big push of
[22:20.200 -> 22:26.320] Red Bull rumors and none of them have been particularly from credible sources, but
[22:26.320 -> 22:31.520] even to the point where Max Verstappen is rumoured to have said, if Marco goes, I go.
[22:31.520 -> 22:34.560] And that seems ridiculous, but I think we can almost dismiss...
[22:34.560 -> 22:39.680] I don't think that's true because Max Verstappen gets paid an absolutely blast pile of money
[22:39.680 -> 22:45.440] and he likes winning races. So if he was to walk out and leave and go to drive for somebody else, he wouldn't be
[22:45.440 -> 22:52.080] much in his interest to do that. So if Helmut Marko is cannon fodder, he'll just sort of walk
[22:52.080 -> 22:57.280] over the body and keep going, I would suggest. All right. All right, Joe, should we dip back
[22:57.280 -> 23:03.840] into our mailbag then? Because Ryan Husson has said, hey, Uncle Joe, that's what he calls you.
[23:03.840 -> 23:05.520] That's a term of reverence,
[23:05.520 -> 23:07.520] Joe. You don't like it, do you?
[23:07.520 -> 23:09.280] A bit vuncular for my taste.
[23:09.280 -> 23:10.280] I don't know what that means.
[23:10.280 -> 23:11.280] It means uncle-like.
[23:11.280 -> 23:16.160] Yeah, no, that's good though. That's the stage of your life that you're at. And to be honest,
[23:16.160 -> 23:17.160] Joe-
[23:17.160 -> 23:20.720] No, that's the stage that you think I'm at. I'm actually still 17 years old and thrusting
[23:20.720 -> 23:21.720] and charging along.
[23:21.720 -> 23:22.720] If I'm honest, Joe-
[23:22.720 -> 23:23.720] In my mind.
[23:23.720 -> 23:24.720] In my mind.
[23:24.720 -> 23:25.520] If I could be your advisor, if I could
[23:25.520 -> 23:30.080] be your Elmer Marko consultant, I'd say take Uncle for as long as you stay in that zone.
[23:30.080 -> 23:35.440] Hey Uncle Joe, says Reinhauser, any chance Lance will end his career in a few weeks and
[23:35.440 -> 23:41.160] what are the chances of Drogovic getting a spot for 2024? I think the only answer to
[23:41.160 -> 23:45.120] that question is in the head of one, Mr. Stroll Jr. I think
[23:45.120 -> 23:49.600] it's definite that he'll be gone by the end of next year. But I'm not sure.
[23:49.600 -> 23:51.560] Really? Wait, really?
[23:51.560 -> 23:56.200] Why? Because he has a contract and you cannot renew a contract with somebody who's done
[23:56.200 -> 24:02.680] that badly. Even if you're the son of the team owner. I just think the whole thing will
[24:02.680 -> 24:06.640] be finished by the end of next year. I don't think it'll go on beyond that.
[24:09.040 -> 24:14.000] Could it happen this year if Lance just decided? Lance never looks like a bloke who's enjoying
[24:14.000 -> 24:19.360] himself. That's the thing. He never looks like a guy who likes driving racing cars. He looks
[24:19.360 -> 24:27.480] like a bloke who's bored all the time. And maybe that's because his life has been
[24:27.600 -> 24:32.640] surrounded by guilted things and everything's nice and easy for
[24:32.640 -> 24:37.080] him and you can just swim in and out of one area or another area
[24:37.080 -> 24:40.360] without too much trouble. I don't know. But he comes across
[24:40.360 -> 24:44.200] as somebody he doesn't have, you know, when you look at a young
[24:44.200 -> 24:48.080] racing driver, or an old racing driver like Fernando
[24:48.080 -> 24:53.320] Alonso, when he comes into the paddock, he's ready to go. He's
[24:53.320 -> 24:55.880] at it, Lance sort of comes in and you think, where did he put
[24:55.880 -> 25:00.960] the surfboard? Or the briefcase or the sandwiches, whatever it
[25:00.960 -> 25:03.680] is, you know, but he just doesn't seem connected in the
[25:03.680 -> 25:08.520] way that the others are, you know, they are, they're mad about racing, and he just seems to be, yeah, well, whatever it is, you know, but he just doesn't seem connected in the way the others are, you know, that they are, they're mad about racing and he just seems to be,
[25:08.520 -> 25:10.160] yeah, well, whatever, you know.
[25:10.160 -> 25:11.960] Yeah, it does seem like that.
[25:11.960 -> 25:17.720] Maybe he really is a sort of a bubbling cauldron of enthusiasm for being a racing driver.
[25:17.720 -> 25:27.680] But I think perhaps given the fact he's been largely humiliated this year. Nobody likes to be humiliated. And, you know, unless you
[25:27.680 -> 25:31.400] can turn it around, and it's very hard to turn a situation around, particularly if you've
[25:31.400 -> 25:38.840] got Fernando Alonso as your teammate, you know, I think there's a potential that he
[25:38.840 -> 25:44.720] might just say, I can't be bothered with this, I'll go and play golf, tennis, snooker, whatever,
[25:44.720 -> 25:46.720] or do nothing. Because he's got loads of
[25:46.720 -> 25:52.640] money in the bank, hasn't he? Yeah, but he looked really frustrated after the Qatar sprint race,
[25:52.640 -> 25:57.600] and as much as I think what he did was wrong, shoving his trainer around and then being rude
[25:57.600 -> 26:03.040] to the journos, whatever, young sportsman, but it did kind of almost show that he cared. So if he
[26:03.040 -> 26:05.640] didn't care, he wouldn't have kicked off like that.
[26:05.640 -> 26:06.760] Well, that's true.
[26:06.760 -> 26:08.400] And I think you could say,
[26:08.400 -> 26:10.200] I was very impressed at the start of the year
[26:10.200 -> 26:11.520] when he fell off his bike
[26:11.520 -> 26:13.800] and he came back in a way
[26:13.800 -> 26:17.660] that only a person who's motivated would do.
[26:17.660 -> 26:20.820] So, you know, that did change my view of him,
[26:20.820 -> 26:25.600] but maybe it's just because he has that sort of attitude,
[26:25.840 -> 26:29.220] for whatever reason, he has that attitude, but he is secretly a bubbling
[26:29.300 -> 26:34.160] cauldron of excitement and enthusiasm for the sport. I don't know. We'll see.
[26:34.160 -> 26:39.600] But the other thing is, whichever way you look at it, he hasn't done enough.
[26:39.680 -> 26:41.800] And in any other team, he will be gone by now.
[26:42.280 -> 26:48.480] It's that and that's the key one, isn't it? Because he is propped up there somewhat artificially and I don't want to-
[26:48.480 -> 26:54.560] Well, look at Nick DeVries, the axe swung after 10 races, wham, next, you know.
[26:54.880 -> 26:59.360] So, and Lance is there just going gradually further and further back.
[26:59.680 -> 27:05.800] And okay, so he had a half decent race in Austin and he looked a bit better because he gained some
[27:05.800 -> 27:07.960] more places or whatever.
[27:07.960 -> 27:13.880] But I don't know, I'm just not getting the right vibes there.
[27:13.880 -> 27:20.080] We've had a question from our live chat and we'll do stroll the mercy of pulling him out
[27:20.080 -> 27:21.080] of this topic.
[27:21.080 -> 27:25.080] Not that he listens to Myst Apex, but Rob Graham just jumped in
[27:25.080 -> 27:32.040] the chat before we get off of Kota completely. Were you on the ground for the booing of Verstappen?
[27:32.040 -> 27:33.920] Because it seemed like, I don't mind-
[27:33.920 -> 27:35.680] I saw it was going on, yes.
[27:35.680 -> 27:41.640] I don't mind a friendly boo, like a pantomime boo, I feel like that's part of sport, but
[27:41.640 -> 27:45.420] the stuff that sometimes gets put at Lewis Hamilton and what seems to be coming
[27:45.420 -> 27:50.300] from the Americas towards Max Verstappen, it's not good natured booing? I just wondered
[27:50.300 -> 27:52.020] if you had a take on that.
[27:52.020 -> 27:57.620] There's two ways of looking at it. One is that you can say, and some people would say,
[27:57.620 -> 28:06.640] that the Americans' way of being a sporting spectator is more extreme than in other
[28:06.640 -> 28:10.760] countries. So it's more of a Punch and Judy show, where they
[28:10.760 -> 28:13.680] boo and they cheer and they scream when they see a star,
[28:14.880 -> 28:17.640] this kind of stuff. Now, the other thing is, and this is
[28:17.640 -> 28:21.600] something that I had some, I think it was Twitter or some
[28:21.600 -> 28:24.400] feedback, somebody said that they were booing the governor of
[28:24.400 -> 28:26.080] Texas. No, I don't think it was Twitter or some feedback, somebody said that they were booing the governor of Texas.
[28:26.480 -> 28:30.240] No, I don't think it was that. Which I thought was rather unlikely, because, you know, the governor of Texas
[28:31.040 -> 28:38.080] is going to be a Republican, and the whole crowd was not from Austin, which is Democrat, or,
[28:38.080 -> 28:43.680] you know, weird, as they call it. I don't see that as being the reason for it. I mean,
[28:43.680 -> 28:47.280] there might have been some people, but it sounded like everybody was there.
[28:47.280 -> 28:53.160] No, the timing of it was quite clear. I watched it over and over again, just to be sure, Joe,
[28:53.160 -> 28:57.520] but the timing of it is quite clear. He puts the trophy up. And I felt sorry for the lad
[28:57.520 -> 28:58.520] because he's there, he's celebrating his moment.
[28:58.520 -> 29:03.120] No, I don't think it was disgusting. In fact, if it was meant for him, which I think it
[29:03.120 -> 29:08.000] was, I think that that is disrespectful, given what he did. I mean, if it was meant for him, which I think it was, I think that is disrespectful
[29:08.000 -> 29:13.260] given what he did. I mean, he drove a fantastic race, really a fantastic race to come through
[29:13.260 -> 29:20.000] from sixth to win. And, you know, he was under pressure all the way. It wasn't easy. And
[29:20.000 -> 29:25.200] he did a terrific job and to boo him at the end of that is just wrong.
[29:25.200 -> 29:28.960] If it was, you know, I guess it was the governor who was giving him the trophy.
[29:28.960 -> 29:29.960] I don't know.
[29:29.960 -> 29:35.580] Oh no, if the booing came when he lifted the trophy up, it was not about the governor.
[29:35.580 -> 29:41.000] So that makes me fear for Mexico, actually, because I know the Mexican F1 fans, and I
[29:41.000 -> 29:47.820] think they've been pretty vocal about it, are really upset about the Perez situation, especially with the Marco comments.
[29:47.820 -> 29:52.560] And I think it's not going to get any better at the Mexican Grand Prix.
[29:52.560 -> 29:54.120] Well, we'll see, won't we?
[29:54.120 -> 30:00.000] I mean, you know, presumably if Perez isn't on the podium, they won't be happy anyway.
[30:00.000 -> 30:01.000] And that's about as unlikely...
[30:01.000 -> 30:03.560] Never mind, let's change the subject again.
[30:03.560 -> 30:08.440] I mean, Perez does tend to raise his game at home in Mexico. But he
[30:08.440 -> 30:11.000] doesn't need to raise his game. I'm like, we'll see what
[30:11.000 -> 30:16.440] happens. But the thing about Max is that Max is a grown up. He's
[30:16.440 -> 30:20.160] big enough not to care. Because for him, the ultimate, the
[30:20.160 -> 30:22.920] ultimate response to booing is just to show them the trophy
[30:22.920 -> 30:27.440] again. Here you go. Let me see. I've won it. You lot are just bad sports.
[30:28.720 -> 30:31.920] And he's not he's not doing any nasty way. He's just doing it
[30:31.920 -> 30:36.480] because he is by far the best driver out there at the moment in
[30:36.480 -> 30:39.440] the best car. And he's doing a fantastic job and particularly in
[30:39.440 -> 30:42.080] Austin, which was a really spectacular drive. It was one of
[30:42.080 -> 30:45.200] the best of his career, I would say.
[30:45.200 -> 30:48.880] Given where he started and given the problems he had,
[30:48.880 -> 30:50.440] and you could see how under pressure
[30:50.440 -> 30:53.360] he was when he's telling the engineer to shut up,
[30:53.360 -> 30:57.320] because he's trying to concentrate not to drive into a hedge.
[30:57.320 -> 31:01.280] And he was under pressure from someone fairly sensible
[31:01.280 -> 31:02.560] by the name of Lewis Hamilton.
[31:02.560 -> 31:04.920] He was closing in and closing in and closing in.
[31:04.920 -> 31:05.880] And another couple
[31:05.880 -> 31:08.280] of laps and it would have been a different story. Yeah, definitely.
[31:08.800 -> 31:13.800] You know, it's, we should not denigrate people who do great
[31:13.800 -> 31:18.080] things. And just because you didn't like him because
[31:18.080 -> 31:20.360] something happened two years ago, which he had very little
[31:20.360 -> 31:27.960] to do with whatever, you know. You shouldn't blame him for things.
[31:27.960 -> 31:30.600] Blame somebody else or just don't blame anybody and get on with it.
[31:30.760 -> 31:34.240] F1's a funny sport where you're booing the competitor.
[31:34.280 -> 31:38.080] Like soccer, you boo your own team more than anything.
[31:38.080 -> 31:41.560] You cheer your team when they're winning and you boo them when they're doing badly.
[31:41.720 -> 31:45.920] But F1 is somehow even more tribal where you direct
[31:45.920 -> 31:52.240] the ire at the driver you don't like. But we can move to happier climbs, Joe, because we've left
[31:52.240 -> 31:58.000] America, we're going to go to Mexico, Brazil, and then we're going to go to Las Vegas. And Brad D
[31:58.000 -> 32:06.160] asks, is Joe looking forward to Las Vegas? Does he have to commute from Pahrump every day to afford it?
[32:06.160 -> 32:10.320] Actually, I looked at the hotel prices, because I've got half a sniff of doing something out there,
[32:10.320 -> 32:12.320] and it wasn't too bad. I was quite surprised.
[32:14.000 -> 32:19.120] There was this initial boost of, or initial phase where everything was silly money,
[32:19.760 -> 32:24.880] but you just sit down and do the numbers, which is there's 150,000 hotel rooms in Las Vegas,
[32:23.600 -> 32:27.280] you just sit down and do the numbers, which is 150,000 hotel rooms in Las Vegas. And they have a maximum crowd capacity of
[32:27.280 -> 32:31.400] 94,000. So work it out. There's going to be a massive excess of
[32:31.400 -> 32:34.840] hotel rooms. Therefore, the prices came down. Ditto the
[32:34.840 -> 32:39.080] flights going in. Bobby Epstein, the promoter of Austin, showed
[32:39.080 -> 32:42.440] me, we were talking about, he said he was taking a whole
[32:42.440 -> 32:44.480] bunch of staff with him to Vegas. I said, Oh, that's going
[32:44.480 -> 32:46.760] to cost you a load of money. He said, No, no, no, look at the flight
[32:46.760 -> 32:50.080] prices. From Austin to Las Vegas on the race weekend, you can get
[32:50.080 -> 32:55.280] there with 79 bucks. You know, it's, it's extraordinary. So I
[32:55.280 -> 33:01.640] think Vegas is going to be a zoo in terms of, you know, people
[33:01.640 -> 33:04.760] getting overexcited about things, and lots of celebrities
[33:04.760 -> 33:07.860] and people will turn up and everything will be wildly
[33:07.860 -> 33:11.760] overhyped. And I'm sure that there'll be massive disruptions
[33:11.760 -> 33:16.560] around town. But there's a reason they've got to race there.
[33:16.560 -> 33:18.920] And the reason they've got to race there is to put Vegas back
[33:18.920 -> 33:21.960] on the map. Because although people haven't forgotten Las
[33:21.960 -> 33:26.200] Vegas, Las Vegas still has to compete with the rest of the world as a
[33:26.200 -> 33:31.480] destination. And that's why they've got an NFL franchise,
[33:31.480 -> 33:34.120] why they're trying to get the Oakland A's baseball team to
[33:34.120 -> 33:37.360] move up there. They're trying to, because you can't just rely
[33:37.360 -> 33:40.200] on gambling anymore, you've got to have a whole bunch of other
[33:40.200 -> 33:42.520] stuff, because gambling is not very family friendly, and
[33:42.520 -> 33:45.840] they're moving over towards sort of family friendly things. So,
[33:46.800 -> 33:50.120] you know, there's a very good reason why there's a Grand Prix
[33:50.120 -> 33:52.440] there, because they need it.
[33:52.920 -> 33:55.920] But it's not sold out, like I can still go and buy a ticket
[33:56.000 -> 33:58.960] tomorrow. The prices are still high, but they're not sold out.
[33:58.960 -> 33:59.640] I'm surprised.
[34:01.360 -> 34:05.700] I'm not really surprised. Because it's the third American race.
[34:05.700 -> 34:10.900] So your average F1 race fan in America who's willing to spend a lot of money to go to races
[34:10.900 -> 34:11.900] has probably done it already.
[34:11.900 -> 34:16.940] There are some who will go there just because it's a new race and you'll be able to say
[34:16.940 -> 34:18.900] I was there at the first one.
[34:18.900 -> 34:24.580] But there is a limit to the number of people who are willing to pay the kind of money it
[34:24.580 -> 34:26.640] costs to do because you you got to fly, you
[34:26.640 -> 34:30.160] got to do a high car, all these things you've got to do. And it
[34:30.160 -> 34:33.600] all adds up to thousands of dollars. So you know, how many
[34:33.600 -> 34:37.000] people can afford to do that? There is. I mean, there's lots
[34:37.000 -> 34:39.120] of people who can but how many people who can afford to do it
[34:39.120 -> 34:42.680] who are interested in Formula One? I think the interesting
[34:42.680 -> 34:45.040] thing will be what the demographic actually is in terms of
[34:45.040 -> 34:48.880] how many of them are really fans and how many of them are Drive to Survive Gunter Steiner fans.
[34:48.880 -> 34:54.400] I know, I love my Drive to Survive fan listeners, Joe, we mustn't gatekeep.
[34:55.440 -> 35:00.880] I am not gatekeeping, I'm saying the demographic will be interesting. I'm not condemning them,
[35:00.880 -> 35:08.000] I'm all for them. You know, I don't necessarily understand it, but you know, why 30 year old Americans would
[35:08.000 -> 35:12.480] suddenly be mad about a Formula One or why, why middle-aged ladies think Gunter Stein is a
[35:12.480 -> 35:13.840] sex symbol, you know, whatever.
[35:13.840 -> 35:15.120] I didn't know that was their thing.
[35:15.680 -> 35:16.320] Oh, it is.
[35:16.320 -> 35:16.800] Absolutely.
[35:16.800 -> 35:20.480] Even Gunter's find that mildly confusing because he doesn't really know what to do with them.
[35:20.480 -> 35:20.880] So.
[35:20.880 -> 35:26.960] No, he's, I mean, he's a very competent guy and he's funny, But you know, he's got a face like a welder's boot, Joe. I
[35:26.960 -> 35:27.560] can't see it.
[35:28.320 -> 35:29.960] Doesn't matter if he's got character.
[35:30.880 -> 35:31.840] It's what's on the inside.
[35:31.840 -> 35:36.840] It's really funny. It is really funny because he does get a lot
[35:36.840 -> 35:41.400] of pressure caused by his fame. Yeah. Because he, you know,
[35:41.400 -> 35:44.840] going out into the paddock is an experience quite daunting for
[35:44.840 -> 35:45.040] him.
[35:45.040 -> 35:49.600] And I saw him at one point over the weekend, and his face looked like thunder.
[35:49.600 -> 35:51.480] And I thought, Oh, what's wrong with you?
[35:51.480 -> 35:53.080] Then I said, what's happened to your happy face?
[35:53.080 -> 35:55.840] And he goes, if you look grumpy, fewer people stop you.
[35:55.840 -> 35:57.080] True. Absolutely.
[35:57.080 -> 35:58.600] And then he said, walk with me.
[35:58.600 -> 36:02.720] Because if you're in a conversation with somebody, fewer people stop you as well.
[36:02.720 -> 36:05.240] And in the minute you pause and stop,
[36:05.240 -> 36:07.440] you're then stuck for a very long period
[36:07.440 -> 36:09.000] doing selfies and autographs.
[36:09.000 -> 36:10.680] It's not that he doesn't want to,
[36:10.680 -> 36:11.720] he's quite happy to do it,
[36:11.720 -> 36:12.840] but he's got other things to do.
[36:12.840 -> 36:14.180] He's running a racing team.
[36:14.180 -> 36:17.320] Joe, you're his notepad and pen.
[36:17.320 -> 36:18.280] That was the old trick,
[36:18.280 -> 36:19.800] if you walk around with a notepad and pen,
[36:19.800 -> 36:21.280] no one interrupts you.
[36:21.280 -> 36:22.440] Well, no, I said to him,
[36:22.440 -> 36:23.400] if you want to go down the paddock,
[36:23.400 -> 36:24.760] let me know, I'll be your umbrella.
[36:24.760 -> 36:25.840] I'll be your clipboard.
[36:25.840 -> 36:26.680] Yeah, so that's it.
[36:26.680 -> 36:27.880] I'll walk around with a spanner.
[36:27.880 -> 36:29.000] In the rain sometimes,
[36:29.000 -> 36:31.680] you'll hitch a ride on someone's umbrella
[36:31.680 -> 36:33.320] to get you through without getting wet.
[36:33.320 -> 36:36.520] So, if you know people in Formula 1, that is.
[36:36.520 -> 36:38.500] I might come out to Vegas.
[36:38.500 -> 36:39.840] Because the thing with Vegas is,
[36:39.840 -> 36:42.440] if it's affordable, there's still tickets.
[36:42.440 -> 36:46.800] Obviously, I'll be playing poker and blackjack, Texas Hold'em.
[36:46.800 -> 36:51.120] So I'll be... You won't go home rich if you're going... No, I'll be making money. I'll make money.
[36:51.840 -> 36:56.240] Don't be silly. The question is can I afford not to go? That's the real question, Joe. Well, if you
[36:56.240 -> 37:02.000] do go, I have some advice and that is find a hotel somewhere near a met... what do you call it?
[37:02.000 -> 37:05.760] Monorail line. Right, yeah, because traffic will be a disaster.
[37:05.760 -> 37:07.400] Yes, and this is what I'm hearing.
[37:07.400 -> 37:10.960] I am predicting this to be a disaster.
[37:10.960 -> 37:17.160] And so I'm going to be walking to the monorail every morning and every evening, and just
[37:17.160 -> 37:23.520] arriving by public transportation, because it'll be a bit like Monaco.
[37:23.520 -> 37:28.560] Monaco is a complete zoo if you try to drive a car there. And so you don't.
[37:28.720 -> 37:30.080] You just take the train or-
[37:30.200 -> 37:31.320] I take my yacht.
[37:31.480 -> 37:34.120] If you have to have a car, you come in very, very early in the
[37:34.120 -> 37:36.960] morning, usually before the police have a chance to mess
[37:36.960 -> 37:40.680] things up, because that's their great expertise at Monaco, is to
[37:40.680 -> 37:43.920] mess up the traffic by producing things that they think will
[37:43.920 -> 37:46.320] work. It's a trick they've learned at SPAR as well.
[37:46.320 -> 37:48.560] When the police get involved, it just gets worse.
[37:48.560 -> 37:51.040] Yeah. James Gill makes a good point.
[37:51.040 -> 37:53.840] I can't risk it. He says, yeah, Spanners, do you have lots of problems
[37:53.840 -> 37:55.240] with people stopping you as well?
[37:55.240 -> 37:59.480] Yeah, because I'm on the internet, Joe, so I don't have a Joe to bring around.
[37:59.480 -> 38:00.480] Or maybe people will virtually stop you.
[38:00.480 -> 38:01.640] Yeah, maybe, maybe.
[38:01.640 -> 38:03.080] Anyway, Joe, you must get that.
[38:03.080 -> 38:11.020] You must get the odd person stopping you for a selfie. Only the very, very odd one. Not often. I do in some countries
[38:11.020 -> 38:17.440] more than others, weirdly. That's just Ted. Japan, I get more in Japan. Is it? A massive
[38:17.440 -> 38:22.300] in... Because they're more passionate fans. And also I had a column in Japan in a Japanese
[38:22.300 -> 38:30.080] magazine for 25 years. There you go. So they know my face, and even if it's a bit older than it was.
[38:30.080 -> 38:33.480] And Australia is a bit like that too.
[38:33.480 -> 38:37.680] But sometimes in funny places, I always get asked for things in Singapore.
[38:37.680 -> 38:38.680] Okay.
[38:38.680 -> 38:39.680] I'm not going to clarify.
[38:39.680 -> 38:42.920] I wasn't going to clarify what you were going to call funny places, Joe, but you went ahead
[38:42.920 -> 38:43.920] and you did it anyway.
[38:43.920 -> 38:44.920] No, no.
[38:44.920 -> 38:49.520] Funny places, I'm not saying Singapore's a funny place I'm just saying it's it's it's odd places that you
[38:49.520 -> 38:54.880] wouldn't expect them to be. Why would I be well known in Singapore? Fair enough all right let's
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[41:33.040 -> 41:36.040] I think we got away with that. Listener mailbag continues.
[41:40.040 -> 41:44.400] Oh, we've got a juicy one here from Scott and it's about Andretti.
[41:44.400 -> 41:45.600] And actually, we've tried to speculate about Andretti and actually we've tried to
[41:45.600 -> 41:49.680] speculate about Andretti and I've never really just thought, oh yeah, well Joe will just know.
[41:49.680 -> 41:54.800] So Scott says, my question is for Joe, and this is a really good technical question Scott,
[41:54.800 -> 42:01.280] does FOM really have the ability and the desire to block Andretti on behalf of the teams just
[42:01.280 -> 42:05.120] because they're unsatisfied with the dilution amount and if
[42:05.120 -> 42:11.520] this is the result, what can be done to prevent F1 permanently being closed to new entries?
[42:11.520 -> 42:15.880] That's the big argument me and Matt have been having. Can Liberty actually do it?
[42:15.880 -> 42:19.120] Okay, well that's simple. Formula One is not closed. Even if they don't let Andrea Thien,
[42:19.120 -> 42:23.760] it's not closed because you can buy a team. Just like the NFL is not closed because you
[42:23.760 -> 42:26.040] can buy a franchise there. Just like any major sport in the league, you can buy a team. Just like the NFL is not closed because you can buy a franchise there. Just
[42:26.040 -> 42:30.280] like any major sport in the world, you can buy a franchise if you want to be part of
[42:30.280 -> 42:37.320] it. Obviously, there are things like football where you have, you can get promotion and
[42:37.320 -> 42:42.240] relegation and all this sort of stuff. But promotion and relegation cannot work in motorsport
[42:42.240 -> 42:50.640] because of the disparity between the money that the teams in Formula 2 have and the teams that Formula 1 have got to be at to be competitive.
[42:50.640 -> 42:53.040] I mean, it's hundreds of millions difference.
[42:53.040 -> 42:57.520] So if you put a Formula 2 team into Formula 1, they'll just be hopeless.
[42:57.520 -> 43:02.240] If you put an IndyCar team into Formula 1, they'll be quite hopeless too, I think.
[43:02.240 -> 43:09.840] And this is one of the biggest fears about Andretti. It's not personal. I think people think
[43:09.840 -> 43:14.080] that Andretti, if he comes in, he'll take a share of something
[43:14.080 -> 43:18.280] that they've spent years, 20 years, 30 years, in some cases,
[43:18.280 -> 43:21.840] getting to a level, and they earn that much money as a result
[43:21.840 -> 43:28.480] of it. And Michael Andretti could come in and earn the same money as them and produce no results
[43:28.480 -> 43:29.480] at all.
[43:29.480 -> 43:33.160] And it would be disastrous for Formula One if the American team, the all dancing, all
[43:33.160 -> 43:38.120] singing American team was five seconds off the pace at the back, which is the most likely
[43:38.120 -> 43:39.120] scenario.
[43:39.120 -> 43:40.120] But we already have that.
[43:40.120 -> 43:42.240] No, we don't, because they're very good.
[43:42.240 -> 43:43.920] All the teams are really close.
[43:43.920 -> 43:45.840] I'm talking about a team that's a complete lame duck.
[43:45.840 -> 43:46.840] Oh, you say like a...
[43:46.840 -> 43:50.320] Because they need five years to catch up, to get to a level at which...
[43:50.320 -> 43:53.280] Even to understand the level they need to be at.
[43:53.280 -> 43:57.920] This is the reason there is resistance.
[43:57.920 -> 44:02.520] And the resistance is not just from the teams.
[44:02.520 -> 44:05.120] The teams do not tell FOM what to do.
[44:10.400 -> 44:10.440] FOM recognizes the fact that does having a new team with
[44:14.480 -> 44:17.800] aspirations that are probably more than they are capable of delivering, is it going to help Formula One to have them at the
[44:17.800 -> 44:21.440] back? Is there value in them being there? And the answer is
[44:21.440 -> 44:27.240] probably no. Now, if you've got all the money that Andretti says he's got by a team, that's
[44:27.240 -> 44:30.380] how you do it. And he could have done he very nearly did by the
[44:30.380 -> 44:34.700] Sauber team. Right. But in the end, in the end, that deal fell
[44:34.700 -> 44:38.100] over. Because either and this depends on who you talk to,
[44:38.600 -> 44:42.140] either that he he he put too many demands in it, which
[44:42.140 -> 44:45.280] annoyed the owner, or Audi came along with a better deal,
[44:45.280 -> 44:51.520] or a bit of both. Whatever it is, he had the chance. And he told me that himself. He told me
[44:51.520 -> 44:59.360] that he had a contract to buy the Sauber team and was on the verge of signing it.
[44:59.360 -> 45:02.880] That's really interesting. Can I clarify though, because there's buying a team,
[45:02.880 -> 45:08.600] and then there's doing what Alfa Romeo did, as in just as a slap their paint over it.
[45:08.600 -> 45:12.880] Yeah, well, Alfa Romeo was just a slappy paint job.
[45:12.880 -> 45:14.640] Does anyone consider that to be an Alfa Romeo?
[45:14.640 -> 45:18.900] Are you going to go out and buy an Alfa Romeo road car because it's got something slapped
[45:18.900 -> 45:20.280] on the side of a Sauber?
[45:20.280 -> 45:21.280] But what does Sauber want?
[45:21.280 -> 45:24.200] Does it want to sell or does it want to keep operating with a sponsor?
[45:24.200 -> 45:31.840] No, no, no. The owner of Sauber was kind of an owner by accident because he basically kept
[45:31.840 -> 45:36.640] loaning the team money to keep... because he was Marcus Ericsson's backer.
[45:37.360 -> 45:38.080] Is that the owner?
[45:38.080 -> 45:39.120] And he kept loaning... yeah.
[45:39.120 -> 45:40.640] Okay. Okay. I didn't know that.
[45:40.640 -> 45:44.320] Finn Rousing was Marcus Ericsson's backer and probably still is in Indica.
[45:46.320 -> 45:48.960] And he just got more and more involved to keep Marcus in there and to keep the team
[45:48.960 -> 45:51.680] running. And eventually he just found himself in a better
[45:51.680 -> 45:55.440] position to take it over. And now it's a matter of, well, do I
[45:55.440 -> 45:58.080] want to do this? Do I want to be seen? Because, you know, the
[45:58.080 -> 46:03.760] Rousing family is very secretive. And, you know, he
[46:03.760 -> 46:06.860] likes racing. He comes to a few races each year. He's a
[46:06.860 -> 46:09.380] multi, multi, multi, multi billionaire. I mean, he makes
[46:09.380 -> 46:13.940] strollers like someone tap dancing on the sidewalk, in
[46:13.940 -> 46:17.580] terms of money. He's got 19 billion or something.
[46:18.060 -> 46:18.840] Oh, man.
[46:19.820 -> 46:25.340] And so, Rousing doesn't need it. But now he's got it, he might
[46:25.340 -> 46:28.400] as well do something with it. And what he did was sell it to
[46:28.400 -> 46:32.240] Audi. And obviously, the Audi deal, funnily enough, I would
[46:32.240 -> 46:36.000] argue they sold it at the wrong time. Because he sold it cheaper
[46:36.000 -> 46:39.760] than he would have got later. If he waited another six months,
[46:40.200 -> 46:43.400] but the opportunity was there and he took it. But if you look
[46:43.400 -> 46:49.680] at what Lawrence Stroll paid for Racing Point and became Aston
[46:49.680 -> 46:52.720] Martin, he's going to make a killing. He can go on burning
[46:52.720 -> 46:56.320] money for another couple of years before he starts losing
[46:56.320 -> 46:59.600] money on the overall scheme of things because he's going to
[46:59.600 -> 47:02.640] sell it for a billion and he bought it for 150 or whatever it
[47:02.640 -> 47:11.360] was. So he spent 600. know, overall he's about halfway to destruction. But if he gets
[47:11.360 -> 47:15.760] out now, he looks very smart, doesn't he? Okay, I'm going to come back to Scott's
[47:15.760 -> 47:21.680] question because we haven't fully answered what it was he was driving at. But Stuart's question
[47:22.240 -> 47:28.080] is, is what, what the hell is up, is Audi up to? So I don't understand where
[47:28.080 -> 47:35.040] Audi sits between Andretti potentially buying it and the Alfa Romeo sponsor paint job.
[47:35.040 -> 47:39.200] Sorry I think you're using the wrong terms here, you're using Audi, you mean Salva?
[47:39.200 -> 47:44.560] No, so this is what Stuart's asking, what is Audi up to in their takeover of Salva?
[47:44.560 -> 47:49.880] Audi has to wait to come in until 26 because you cannot have an Audi Ferrari.
[47:49.880 -> 47:54.000] But there's lots of rumours about them dropping out or that falling through.
[47:54.000 -> 48:02.800] No, no, they're buying the team in stages. Right now, they own 25% of it. By the end
[48:02.800 -> 48:05.400] of this year, they'll own about 50, but
[48:05.760 -> 48:08.040] Rousing will still be the chairman, so they will still
[48:08.040 -> 48:12.640] control it. After that, at a certain point, it goes into Audi
[48:12.640 -> 48:16.120] ownership, and then things will change. But exactly because
[48:16.120 -> 48:21.880] they haven't told us all these details of when power will go,
[48:21.880 -> 48:24.920] but you can't just change it into Audi because you can't have
[48:24.920 -> 48:26.400] a car called an Audi Ferrari.
[48:27.040 -> 48:29.680] Yeah, because one Ferrari wouldn't agree to it and two
[48:29.680 -> 48:32.960] Audi wouldn't do it. So you just have to pretend it's not it's a
[48:32.960 -> 48:37.840] Sauber Ferrari for now. Yeah. Until it becomes an Audi. And
[48:37.840 -> 48:40.800] it's never been an Alfa Romeo, except then the fact that
[48:40.800 -> 48:43.560] somebody gave him a couple of quid. And I mean, that was the
[48:43.560 -> 48:45.640] cheapest deal in probably the cheapest deal in
[48:45.640 -> 48:48.840] the history of manufacturing Formula One. And good for them.
[48:49.040 -> 48:53.960] It's mainly it's a that's a that's a yeah, it's a mates
[48:53.960 -> 48:59.360] that's a mates deal between Fred Vasseur and Carlos Tavares, the
[48:59.360 -> 49:04.960] boss of Stellantis, i.e. the parent company of Alfa Romeo.
[49:05.000 -> 49:06.400] And that's one of the reasons to probably that Fred got into of Stellantis, i.e. the parent company of Alfa Romeo.
[49:09.640 -> 49:12.880] And that's one of the reasons too, probably, that Fred got into Ferrari, because he's also the chairman of Stellantis.
[49:13.760 -> 49:16.840] Ferrari is John Elkann.
[49:17.240 -> 49:21.160] So it's all very sort of who you know.
[49:21.240 -> 49:22.720] Went to the wrong schools, didn't we?
[49:22.720 -> 49:23.960] We went to the wrong school.
[49:23.960 -> 49:28.000] So what would that Audi engine be eventually then, if it's not a Ferrari?
[49:28.000 -> 49:29.360] Well, it'll be an Audi engine.
[49:29.360 -> 49:30.360] So it'll be an Audi-Audi.
[49:30.360 -> 49:31.360] Yeah, an Audi-Audi.
[49:31.360 -> 49:32.360] They're building it.
[49:32.360 -> 49:35.160] And, you know, they're building it as we speak.
[49:35.160 -> 49:38.640] They're working on it in Germany.
[49:38.640 -> 49:42.560] And the Audi engine, at the moment, there's lots of rumors saying it's not very good.
[49:42.560 -> 49:45.520] But there's, you know, there's lots of people going to work there.
[49:47.160 -> 49:50.960] You know, they might have, they might have changed the budgets a little bit,
[49:51.480 -> 49:54.240] because I think the original budgets weren't very realistic.
[49:54.480 -> 49:57.640] And the guy who came up with the original idea has departed the company.
[49:57.960 -> 50:02.840] So obviously, there will be rumors that the new lot who are in charge don't want to do it.
[50:04.120 -> 50:07.720] But, you know, just pulling out of having announced something and then pulling out
[50:07.720 -> 50:09.720] of it is not great PR.
[50:09.880 -> 50:10.160] No.
[50:10.720 -> 50:13.880] Particularly if you're Audi, you know, and you're supposed to be this great sort
[50:13.880 -> 50:18.400] of engineering bunch of geniuses, Vorksprung, Dirk, Technik and all the rest of it.
[50:18.960 -> 50:21.600] So you basically just struggle through.
[50:21.880 -> 50:28.880] I just have no faith that anyone can come in with a competitive F1 engine. You have no faith that anyone can come in with a competitive F1 engine?
[50:28.880 -> 50:33.960] Why not? Because it seems really difficult. In the first, in the hybrid era, one team got it
[50:33.960 -> 50:39.200] right, a new team came in a little bit later and got it disastrously wrong, and Renault still
[50:39.200 -> 50:47.440] haven't really got a grip on it. Well, Honda came in and got it right. Eventually. It took, what, eight years to get it right?
[50:47.440 -> 50:51.680] They did make a bit of a mess of their choices early on, but they still got it right.
[50:51.680 -> 50:53.480] All right. Well, I'm glad you're more up to it.
[50:53.480 -> 50:59.280] You can do it. I mean, this is the point. And Red Bull is actually doing it now, because
[50:59.280 -> 51:03.200] that's not just a Honda. In 2026, that's a Red Bull engine.
[51:03.200 -> 51:04.200] Isn't it?
[51:04.200 -> 51:05.000] Yeah, right. No, it is.
[51:05.000 -> 51:10.000] Chinny reckon, Joe. Beard. Chinny reckon. That's what I used to say at school.
[51:10.000 -> 51:11.000] I don't buy it.
[51:11.000 -> 51:13.000] That's the Honda engine. Not having it.
[51:13.000 -> 51:17.000] It's not the Honda engine because otherwise there wouldn't be another Honda engine, would there?
[51:17.000 -> 51:19.000] All right. Okay, fine.
[51:19.000 -> 51:25.920] Anyway, Red Bull have spent an absolute fortune on their powertrains. And I've been around the factory and believe me, it's very impressive.
[51:26.480 -> 51:30.280] And they have all kinds of people from all kinds of countries in the world.
[51:30.960 -> 51:32.400] He's doing an accent as a clue.
[51:32.960 -> 51:36.440] Well, because one of the blokes I met was a German who happened to be one
[51:36.440 -> 51:37.560] of the leading lights there.
[51:37.560 -> 51:42.960] So, you know, there's a whole bunch of good engineers who are there doing stuff.
[51:43.280 -> 51:46.360] And what happens at the end of it all, we'll just have to wait and see.
[51:46.360 -> 51:51.640] So let's get back to Scott's question then, because I think it's a good one. So the FIA
[51:51.640 -> 51:56.160] have approved, it's been passed, they're allowed to compete as far as...
[51:56.160 -> 51:57.680] But they're not allowed to compete.
[51:57.680 -> 52:00.000] So the FOM can block them.
[52:00.000 -> 52:05.920] Yes, we don't know how they can, but we know that they can. They have a say. It's not a
[52:05.920 -> 52:12.000] question of them having the ability to veto. They have to agree.
[52:12.720 -> 52:16.880] Why? What happens if FOM don't agree? Can't they just go on the grid anyway?
[52:16.880 -> 52:18.640] Well, in that case, Andretti doesn't come.
[52:19.200 -> 52:22.160] But technically, could they join the grid without FOM?
[52:22.720 -> 52:23.360] No.
[52:23.360 -> 52:25.800] They can't? So it literally needs Liberty
[52:25.800 -> 52:29.360] to approve it? No, without an entry, they can't.
[52:29.360 -> 52:33.960] Ah, see that's where I was confused. I think a lot of people are confused. We thought the
[52:33.960 -> 52:38.000] entry was from the FIA. Well, that's what the FIA would like people
[52:38.000 -> 52:43.280] to think, but that's not true. That is what the FIA wants you to think.
[52:43.280 -> 52:46.240] To get an entry, you have to have agreement between the two.
[52:46.240 -> 52:52.520] The FIA says it's entirely their remit to decide who gets what.
[52:52.520 -> 52:53.520] But it's not.
[52:53.520 -> 52:59.280] There has to be agreement on a commercial basis from FOM.
[52:59.280 -> 53:08.800] And if FOM doesn't want it to happen, well, then I sabres and saying they'll sue and this, that and the
[53:08.800 -> 53:15.600] other. Good luck with that. They can try. But, you know, the fact is that they have to show that
[53:15.600 -> 53:20.720] they have a value to the sport. I mean, why the hell is the FIA letting them in anyway? That's
[53:20.720 -> 53:26.640] just electioneering. Like, look at us, aren't we popular in America? We've let this American lot in, you know.
[53:26.640 -> 53:32.400] But Mohammed bin Salam seems to be in open war with Liberty. I'm not asking you to risk
[53:32.400 -> 53:33.400] your...
[53:33.400 -> 53:35.560] Well, that's an interesting point. But rule number one, if you're going to be in open
[53:35.560 -> 53:38.640] war with somebody, don't go to war with somebody who's going to hit you on the head with a
[53:38.640 -> 53:49.300] hammer. And if you're not smart enough to understand that, it's very simple. The FIA gets 40% or more of its income from Formula One.
[53:49.300 -> 53:54.000] If you fall out with Formula One, you lose 40% of your income and you go bankrupt.
[53:54.000 -> 53:59.160] So because the FIA cannot survive in its current form without Formula One money, it would just
[53:59.160 -> 54:01.140] be a chubby bit for myself.
[54:01.140 -> 54:08.680] If the F1 people say we're going to do our own thing, we don't care about the FIA, they can't stop that because that would be anti-competitive under EU regulations.
[54:08.680 -> 54:13.040] Oh, good point. But would they have to call it something else like Formula Racing Stars?
[54:13.040 -> 54:17.480] Yes, you'd have to call it GP1. And you couldn't call it World Championship, you could call
[54:17.480 -> 54:24.200] it the GP1 World Series. But frankly, you would never get to that because, gee whiz,
[54:24.200 -> 54:25.160] guess what?
[54:25.160 -> 54:30.200] If the FAA is going out of business, their most logical course of action, if we get to
[54:30.200 -> 54:34.520] that ridiculous situation, is to come sneaking back to the table and say, well, we could
[54:34.520 -> 54:37.400] be world championship and call yourself Formula One again if you let us stay in.
[54:37.400 -> 54:42.280] Otherwise, they go out of business and all the little club books would be sitting on
[54:42.280 -> 54:48.740] their boats in the Caribbean or whatever they do, and with no games to play, no politics to play at the Federation.
[54:48.740 -> 54:52.880] And Bin Salim will be sitting at home getting bored in Dubai, because nobody will care.
[54:52.880 -> 54:53.880] Yes.
[54:53.880 -> 54:55.460] Because the FIA will have disappeared.
[54:55.460 -> 54:59.040] But the FIA is making a lot of noise, making a lot of statements through their president
[54:59.040 -> 55:00.040] at the moment.
[55:00.040 -> 55:03.640] And it all seems very, very personal.
[55:03.640 -> 55:07.400] To be honest, is it the FIA making those statements or is it the president on his own?
[55:07.400 -> 55:09.320] It's the president on his own, is my guess.
[55:09.440 -> 55:12.280] Well, yes, but also it's a system of patronage.
[55:12.320 -> 55:13.640] That's what federations are.
[55:14.240 -> 55:18.800] So there are people who owe their position to the president.
[55:19.080 -> 55:19.600] Yes.
[55:19.680 -> 55:22.280] And therefore, they've got to toe the line.
[55:22.320 -> 55:25.400] And some of them are frightened of losing things, some of them, you know, but
[55:25.880 -> 55:31.480] it's federations are generally strange, strange animals.
[55:32.040 -> 55:36.840] Because they have, you know, what, where is the logic in the
[55:36.960 -> 55:40.600] automobile club of Panama, having the same number of votes
[55:40.600 -> 55:46.280] as the Automobile Association of America, the AAA, or ADAC with 30 million
[55:46.280 -> 55:51.360] members whereas Panama's probably got, you know, a couple of hundred maximum.
[55:51.360 -> 55:53.020] They've got the same voting power.
[55:53.020 -> 55:54.460] That doesn't make sense.
[55:54.460 -> 55:59.200] So you have a situation where all kinds of people from funny little countries get jobs.
[55:59.200 -> 56:01.560] Funny countries, Joe, let's not call countries funny.
[56:01.560 -> 56:07.600] No, no, no, but funny little countries, it's just, you know, countries that are not significant in the overall scheme of things.
[56:07.600 -> 56:10.480] Name three countries that you think are funny and insignificant.
[56:11.200 -> 56:13.440] Well, uh, Joe at email.com.
[56:13.440 -> 56:15.040] I mean, you define funny, doesn't it?
[56:16.320 -> 56:21.920] Basically, small countries that have very little motorsport or motoring activity going on.
[56:22.880 -> 56:25.920] Stop thinking France, you guys out there. I know you're all stopping.
[56:25.920 -> 56:28.720] I'm talking about islands in the Pacific.
[56:28.720 -> 56:30.480] I'm talking about islands in the Caribbean.
[56:30.480 -> 56:32.160] They have a vote.
[56:32.160 -> 56:35.240] I'm talking about, I don't know,
[56:35.240 -> 56:37.960] just places that you wouldn't associate with cars.
[56:38.800 -> 56:39.840] Okay, cool.
[56:39.840 -> 56:40.680] Excellent.
[56:40.680 -> 56:41.500] Right, nice.
[56:41.500 -> 56:42.340] I like it.
[56:42.340 -> 56:45.000] Can we end on two team questions from our listeners?
[56:45.000 -> 56:47.000] You can end on whatever you like.
[56:47.000 -> 56:52.480] Okay, cool. So, James Gill has said, Hello Uncle Joe, and actually James is young enough
[56:52.480 -> 56:57.320] definitely to call you probably great Uncle Joe for James. What do you think the running
[56:57.320 -> 57:02.540] order will be next season? And he's a McLaren fan, so he clarifies. Do you think the McLaren
[57:02.540 -> 57:09.480] resurgence will continue into next year or will they continue to be in the midfield until the second half of the season due to being
[57:09.480 -> 57:10.900] on a different development cycle?
[57:10.900 -> 57:12.900] I think that's a great question, James.
[57:12.900 -> 57:17.000] I've been saying to people, because I love McLaren, I've been going, whoa, whoa, whoa,
[57:17.000 -> 57:18.740] pump the brakes, don't get carried away.
[57:18.740 -> 57:26.320] Well, I tend to think the gaps that Red Bull has now, first of all, they are going to improve their machine.
[57:26.880 -> 57:31.200] And so everyone else needs to improve as well. And if that is done in a linear fashion,
[57:31.200 -> 57:36.880] then it won't change. If Red Bull accelerates away, they may be even further ahead.
[57:37.520 -> 57:42.000] And if the others accelerate towards them, well, that's different. But we'll see. I don't know.
[57:42.880 -> 57:45.440] I would be amazed if Red Bull wasn't at the front again.
[57:46.000 -> 57:46.720] No, that's true.
[57:46.760 -> 57:49.080] If you look at it now, if you look at it now, they're getting, the
[57:49.080 -> 57:53.000] others are catching up, they're getting closer, maybe it's only in qualifying.
[57:53.480 -> 57:57.480] But you know, in race trim, the Red Bull is still by far the best car.
[57:58.560 -> 58:02.600] But having said that in recent races, we've seen Lewis has been
[58:02.600 -> 58:04.000] chasing Max to the finish line.
[58:04.000 -> 58:04.400] Okay.
[58:04.400 -> 58:05.520] But Max started sixth on
[58:05.520 -> 58:10.960] the grid, so it's a bit different. But the McLaren look very, very strong too. And Ferrari look strong
[58:10.960 -> 58:17.280] on occasion. So, you know, there will be a levelling effect over time because of the way
[58:17.280 -> 58:25.960] the aerodynamic testing regulations restrict the winners more than the losers. So, do you know about this?
[58:25.960 -> 58:30.160] I know about this. So they get like a success ballast for wind tunnel, but Ferrari look
[58:30.160 -> 58:34.880] good on occasion outside of Singapore. The only times they've looked good have been just
[58:34.880 -> 58:36.160] before the lights go out.
[58:36.160 -> 58:40.680] Well, yeah, this is true. I mean, okay, good. There is an argument as well, I would put
[58:40.680 -> 58:48.120] forward that much of Red Bull's success this year has been due to the others screwing up as much as them doing a great job.
[58:48.120 -> 58:49.120] It's both.
[58:49.120 -> 58:50.120] Oh, yeah.
[58:50.120 -> 58:52.840] Yeah, it is a bit of both, but the others have got to get it together in the way that
[58:52.840 -> 58:54.360] Red Bull's got it together.
[58:54.360 -> 59:00.720] So I just think the whole thing, as a general rule, I think, and you can see it already,
[59:00.720 -> 59:08.320] look at the look at the spread of lap times between the cars and it's really close. Okay,
[59:08.320 -> 59:12.760] Red Bull's got an advantage, but just assume Red Bull wasn't there, we'd have some fantastic
[59:12.760 -> 59:16.600] races and everyone would be jumping up and down and wetting themselves with excitement
[59:16.600 -> 59:20.840] at every Grand Prix because the racing would be so close.
[59:20.840 -> 59:29.360] If you took tyre wear out of F1 right now, I think it might be closer. It would be less interesting to watch, but you would have less drop off from like McLaren, like they had
[59:29.360 -> 59:30.360] a closer...
[59:30.360 -> 59:31.360] Yeah, but you'd have no overtaking at all.
[59:31.360 -> 59:32.360] Yeah, I know, but you'd get closer...
[59:32.360 -> 59:36.400] And then people would be whining about, it's not fair, the overtaking is boring, it's processional,
[59:36.400 -> 59:37.760] all this stuff you always hear.
[59:37.760 -> 59:39.440] But you'd get closer race times.
[59:39.440 -> 59:46.400] But you can't beat science. You know, the problem is you have to find a way of science. Science kills entertainment.
[59:47.500 -> 59:53.040] Um, you know, it just does because aerodynamics and cars following and all
[59:53.040 -> 59:56.840] the rest of this stuff, science messes up good racing.
[59:57.080 -> 01:00:01.240] Good racing is achieved when you have boxes with a wheel at each corner.
[01:00:01.320 -> 01:00:02.160] Rip the wings off.
[01:00:02.200 -> 01:00:02.920] That's what I say.
[01:00:03.200 -> 01:00:03.960] Groove tires.
[01:00:04.200 -> 01:00:07.840] Even that won't make a difference. Mercedes have tried ripping the rings off and look
[01:00:07.840 -> 01:00:11.920] at the disaster there. Yeah, groove tyres, rip the wings off, that's the only way.
[01:00:13.520 -> 01:00:18.800] That's a really great plan. Thanks, I appreciate that and I take it at face value. Okay, so.
[01:00:18.800 -> 01:00:23.760] But it's not meant at face value. It is though, reduce the grip. To get better racing you've
[01:00:23.760 -> 01:00:27.200] got to reduce the grip. But you won't reduce the grip because the engineers will go and find some more.
[01:00:28.160 -> 01:00:30.160] Double grooved, there we go, that'll do it.
[01:00:30.960 -> 01:00:33.120] I think we went through that phase at some point already.
[01:00:33.120 -> 01:00:40.640] I did some really nerdy, because I'm a jobless bum, i.e. a freelancer, I went through and I
[01:00:40.640 -> 01:00:48.040] looked at the finishing positions for constructors. And the reason why I'm not optimistic about, say, when Aston Martin jumped up to the top,
[01:00:48.040 -> 01:00:50.000] I was like, that can't be sustained.
[01:00:50.000 -> 01:00:52.280] It's going to revert to the mean.
[01:00:52.280 -> 01:00:57.120] But I looked through the constructors' positions and very rarely does a team suddenly just
[01:00:57.120 -> 01:01:00.000] pop up and become successful.
[01:01:00.000 -> 01:01:04.240] The biggest movement I could really find was McLaren-Honda, where they go from fourth to
[01:01:04.240 -> 01:01:05.560] seventh and back to fourth.
[01:01:05.560 -> 01:01:08.980] But generally, the teams stay in their lane.
[01:01:08.980 -> 01:01:14.720] So for McLaren to go from, you know, fourth and fifth consistently, to suddenly be fighting
[01:01:14.720 -> 01:01:19.000] for a title or even being P2, it just seems very unlikely to me.
[01:01:19.000 -> 01:01:20.000] It would be...
[01:01:20.000 -> 01:01:24.280] But that is a reflection on the closeness of the situation.
[01:01:24.280 -> 01:01:28.240] McLaren has made a slightly bigger improvement than some of the others,
[01:01:28.240 -> 01:01:32.680] but that means they look much better because they've jumped up ahead of three others.
[01:01:33.000 -> 01:01:33.400] Yeah.
[01:01:33.440 -> 01:01:35.000] And they started so poorly as well.
[01:01:35.000 -> 01:01:35.360] That is...
[01:01:35.600 -> 01:01:39.480] And they started poorly, maybe, but the fact is that when you're close together,
[01:01:39.680 -> 01:01:43.520] and this is, you can see in the qualifying, you'll see sometimes there'll be
[01:01:43.520 -> 01:01:50.080] Toro Rosso's in Q3. Sometimes there'll be Alpines, pretty much every team has got into Q3 at some
[01:01:50.080 -> 01:01:57.360] point. Even an Alfa Romeo I think made it at some point into Q3. Why is that? That's because it's
[01:01:57.360 -> 01:02:03.280] so damn close. And that's what people don't appreciate what enjoy what you've got because
[01:02:03.840 -> 01:02:06.080] this is incredibly close. Okay, Max
[01:02:06.080 -> 01:02:12.640] and Gout, Max and only Max, because Sergio is not good enough. Only Max is ahead. It's true, sadly.
[01:02:12.640 -> 01:02:16.720] And everybody else is in a real sort of, well, it could be any one of them. It could be following
[01:02:16.720 -> 01:02:22.080] through. And that's why we saw, you know, over the last few years, we've seen a win from Alpha
[01:02:22.080 -> 01:02:25.280] Torii, we've seen a win from Alpine, unlikely things
[01:02:25.280 -> 01:02:31.280] though they were, but gradually the long-term project of Formula One is to have everyone
[01:02:31.280 -> 01:02:34.400] close together. And that's another reason why Andriodis doesn't fit, because they would take
[01:02:34.400 -> 01:02:39.760] years to catch up. So you just literally have them sort of chugging around the back, getting
[01:02:39.760 -> 01:02:44.240] in the way when they get left. Why can't you have, like you had Caterham, Mauritius, Virgin,
[01:02:44.240 -> 01:02:47.280] why can't you just have like a subdivision at the back where it
[01:02:47.280 -> 01:02:50.040] doesn't matter that they're a few seconds off and just let
[01:02:50.080 -> 01:02:53.400] let them compete and give them time to grow. No prize money.
[01:02:53.440 -> 01:02:56.560] What did that actually, what did that? Yeah, but they'll go out
[01:02:56.560 -> 01:02:57.800] of business if there's no prize money.
[01:02:58.360 -> 01:03:00.360] Well, they did. That literally happened.
[01:03:00.360 -> 01:03:02.920] And that's exactly what would happen again, which is why...
[01:03:02.920 -> 01:03:04.080] Try it one more time.
[01:03:04.080 -> 01:03:09.520] ... there is a provision to add more, but you've got to have a really good team.
[01:03:09.520 -> 01:03:14.120] And I think the best thing to do is just to get rid of the additional nominal
[01:03:14.120 -> 01:03:18.200] entries of 11th and 12th, because ultimately I don't think you can find
[01:03:18.200 -> 01:03:23.080] somebody who can go into those roles in a competitive way in anything but a
[01:03:23.080 -> 01:03:26.880] sort of 10 year period, because you've got to build up such
[01:03:27.600 -> 01:03:32.160] an infrastructure. And you know, Haas is going to struggle because their infrastructure is not
[01:03:32.160 -> 01:03:38.480] their own. To a large extent. I mean, well, because the cars are built by Dallara and, you know,
[01:03:40.720 -> 01:03:50.720] they don't have a factory full of machines like other teams do. Why don't they employ Ferrari people on short-term contracts and then ship them back off to Ferrari
[01:03:50.720 -> 01:03:52.560] when they've passed on that knowledge?
[01:03:52.560 -> 01:03:56.120] Well, because what they do is they pick up Ferrari people and Ferrari people are being
[01:03:56.120 -> 01:03:59.440] thrown out.
[01:03:59.440 -> 01:04:10.640] When Ferrari needs to downsize, Haas absorbed some of the people. So, you can't do what Haas did now, because that loophole that
[01:04:10.640 -> 01:04:11.320] they found-
[01:04:11.360 -> 01:04:12.920] Yes, that's what I was referring to.
[01:04:12.920 -> 01:04:13.840] Yeah, fair enough.
[01:04:13.840 -> 01:04:15.600] Yeah, but that's it.
[01:04:15.640 -> 01:04:18.440] They were clever enough to find that loophole and they did it.
[01:04:18.920 -> 01:04:28.040] Just as Lawrence Stroll found a loophole in as much as because Force India was such a, excuse
[01:04:28.040 -> 01:04:35.000] me, such a mess, they could not unravel the mess that Vijay Mallya had created.
[01:04:35.000 -> 01:04:39.160] And they did something which had never been done in the history of the sport before, which
[01:04:39.160 -> 01:04:43.640] is they let the assets go into a new company with a new company number that is absolutely
[01:04:43.640 -> 01:04:46.320] against every rule in the Concord Agreement. But they
[01:04:46.320 -> 01:04:50.560] did it to keep the points. No, exactly. But they did it to keep
[01:04:50.560 -> 01:04:52.660] that team alive. It's better than having all those people
[01:04:52.660 -> 01:04:55.400] going out of business and everything, the whole thing
[01:04:55.480 -> 01:05:01.680] come crumbling. Now that was Lawrence. Lawrence has made
[01:05:01.680 -> 01:05:05.920] hundreds of millions as a result of that. And lucky boy.
[01:05:05.920 -> 01:05:07.600] But how long is he going to stick around?
[01:05:07.600 -> 01:05:08.600] That's another story.
[01:05:08.600 -> 01:05:09.600] Yes.
[01:05:09.600 -> 01:05:10.600] Yeah.
[01:05:10.600 -> 01:05:12.600] A token effort after Lance goes, I'm sure.
[01:05:12.600 -> 01:05:14.160] A token effort to show that he wasn't just there for-
[01:05:14.160 -> 01:05:15.560] I don't even think it'll be a token effort.
[01:05:15.560 -> 01:05:18.200] I think he'll be selling Left, Right and Zendure after Lance goes.
[01:05:18.200 -> 01:05:19.200] No, we're out.
[01:05:19.200 -> 01:05:20.200] Well, there's no point.
[01:05:20.200 -> 01:05:21.200] What's the purpose?
[01:05:21.200 -> 01:05:22.200] Save face?
[01:05:22.200 -> 01:05:23.200] I don't know.
[01:05:23.200 -> 01:05:27.840] The purpose was to make Lance troll into a world champion if he's not going to happen.
[01:05:28.720 -> 01:05:32.080] Why on earth would Daddy continue to take the pain?
[01:05:33.200 -> 01:05:33.680] Very fine.
[01:05:33.680 -> 01:05:35.760] In the car company particularly.
[01:05:36.720 -> 01:05:36.800] Yeah.
[01:05:36.800 -> 01:05:39.920] Because that's even more of a basket case than the racing team.
[01:05:39.920 -> 01:05:43.360] The racing team's in a fairly good place, but the car company's not.
[01:05:43.920 -> 01:05:44.720] Basket case.
[01:05:44.720 -> 01:05:50.880] All right. Final question then. Final team question. Andrew De Groot, I think,
[01:05:50.880 -> 01:05:58.720] is a Williams fan. Sounds aggrieved and in the style of a 90s TV complaint show. Why, oh why,
[01:05:58.720 -> 01:06:10.840] oh why, is everyone still so down on Williams? I would love to know what the feeling in the paddock is about the potential resurgence and Williams being a competitive midfield team, perhaps
[01:06:10.840 -> 01:06:11.840] even a place where drivers...
[01:06:11.840 -> 01:06:12.840] But who's down on Williams?
[01:06:12.840 -> 01:06:18.400] Well, I think he's, maybe he's talking about me. I love Williams, but it just...
[01:06:18.400 -> 01:06:23.360] Williams is on the way up, and Williams is on the way up, not just... Yes, of course
[01:06:23.360 -> 01:06:26.360] it is, but you can't change a car. They've got a car that does. I
[01:06:26.360 -> 01:06:28.240] mean, it's doing a hell of a lot better than it did last year.
[01:06:28.240 -> 01:06:31.880] And it's not massively different. Just because they've
[01:06:31.880 -> 01:06:35.520] changed some people. But what you what can't be seen yet is
[01:06:35.520 -> 01:06:38.680] that good people are starting to arrive at Williams because they
[01:06:38.680 -> 01:06:42.240] have faith in James Val's turning it around and taking it
[01:06:42.240 -> 01:06:47.040] somewhere with Darlton money. And so there are good people arriving there all the time.
[01:06:47.040 -> 01:06:51.360] And you know, not high profile people like Pat Fry, he's part of it,
[01:06:51.360 -> 01:06:54.640] but there's all through all the different levels on the technical side,
[01:06:54.640 -> 01:06:57.600] good people are coming out of other teams and going to Williams.
[01:06:57.600 -> 01:07:00.720] And that's why it will grow and be successful.
[01:07:00.720 -> 01:07:04.080] Okay, so this season 26 points, seventh place,
[01:07:04.080 -> 01:07:07.160] they are just ahead of Alfa Romeo, slightly
[01:07:07.160 -> 01:07:13.280] ahead of Haas and Alfa Tauri, but quite a way off 6th place.
[01:07:13.280 -> 01:07:14.280] So it's a...
[01:07:14.280 -> 01:07:18.440] Of course, but you can't do things overnight, we've just discussed that before, it takes
[01:07:18.440 -> 01:07:24.280] a long-term process, they need to rebuild the infrastructure that existed at Williams,
[01:07:24.280 -> 01:07:26.400] it's so far out of date. I mean,
[01:07:26.400 -> 01:07:28.360] it's way more out of date than anybody else.
[01:07:28.360 -> 01:07:35.280] Okay, but of those 26 points, Joe, 25 of those have been scored by Alex Albon. And that's
[01:07:35.280 -> 01:07:36.280] got to be...
[01:07:36.280 -> 01:07:37.800] Which tells you what?
[01:07:37.800 -> 01:07:40.600] They have got a pay driver and they need to not have a pay driver.
[01:07:40.600 -> 01:07:43.680] They haven't got a pay driver. There's no pay driver at Williams.
[01:07:43.680 -> 01:07:46.240] Williams don't benefit financially from having Logan Sargent.
[01:07:46.240 -> 01:07:51.520] No, they do not. And nor does Sauber benefit from Guan Yu Joe, no matter what people tell you.
[01:07:52.080 -> 01:07:58.400] There's only one team that has a paid driver, and that is because the dad is the boss. So,
[01:07:58.400 -> 01:08:03.680] he's paying for his own son, if you like. Otherwise, there are no paid drivers in Formula 1.
[01:08:04.240 -> 01:08:05.920] Logan Sargent is the first choice.
[01:08:05.920 -> 01:08:07.040] He's not a paid driver.
[01:08:07.040 -> 01:08:10.960] Logan Sargent is then on merit the first choice for Williams.
[01:08:10.960 -> 01:08:12.720] There's no other incentive to have him.
[01:08:12.720 -> 01:08:13.360] Yes, he is.
[01:08:14.960 -> 01:08:16.800] Let me tell you a conversation I had the other day.
[01:08:16.800 -> 01:08:17.760] I'd love it. Let's have it.
[01:08:18.720 -> 01:08:24.560] I was talking to Oscar Piastri, as you do, in the paddock, and Oscar, we were talking about
[01:08:24.560 -> 01:08:27.380] how hard it is for a rookie to come in and make a big
[01:08:27.380 -> 01:08:28.840] impression because of the tyres.
[01:08:28.840 -> 01:08:33.920] And you can see from Oscar's performances that he struggles more than Lando on
[01:08:33.920 -> 01:08:37.200] occasion, because he's trying to learn how the tyres work.
[01:08:37.720 -> 01:08:40.640] And he said, you know, it's still a problem for me.
[01:08:41.320 -> 01:08:47.960] And he said, and Logan's having the same kind of problems that I'm having. I just don't get what's happening to
[01:08:47.960 -> 01:08:53.280] him. Because Logan's quick, and he was my teammate. And when
[01:08:53.280 -> 01:08:58.680] Oscar Piastri says someone's quick, that is actually quite a
[01:08:59.000 -> 01:09:03.240] recommendation, because Logan Sargent is quick. And that's
[01:09:03.240 -> 01:09:07.160] what Williams have seen. And they have, okay, he's making a mess of things as a
[01:09:07.160 -> 01:09:10.200] rookie, but all rookies make a mess. Look at look at Sonoda.
[01:09:10.200 -> 01:09:13.240] Why is he still there after all these years of screaming and
[01:09:13.240 -> 01:09:16.360] shouting and crashing? And yes, because he's got Honda written
[01:09:16.360 -> 01:09:20.360] on his forehead. And they're keeping him there to learn.
[01:09:20.800 -> 01:09:24.080] Because he has got speed, whichever way you look at it,
[01:09:24.400 -> 01:09:26.640] he's got speed. So he's you look at it, he's got speed. He's not a pay driver,
[01:09:26.640 -> 01:09:33.000] but he is a protected driver, if you like. So the thing is, I respect you massively, Joe. So if you
[01:09:33.000 -> 01:09:37.880] say that Logan Sargent is there on merit, it does make me think, if you're wrong about that,
[01:09:37.880 -> 01:09:42.120] what else are you wrong about? This whole... Yeah, but I'm not wrong about it. Why do you think he's
[01:09:42.120 -> 01:09:47.600] a pay driver? Okay, put it this way. You're saying he's... Why not? Why do... Honestly, give me some evidence.
[01:09:47.600 -> 01:09:49.040] That's fair. I will come back.
[01:09:49.040 -> 01:09:52.160] Just because his family has been wealthy.
[01:09:52.160 -> 01:09:52.400] Yes.
[01:09:53.360 -> 01:09:55.360] Where is the evidence that he's a pay driver?
[01:09:55.360 -> 01:10:00.880] Okay, so that's a fair question and I'm not armed to answer that specifically.
[01:10:00.880 -> 01:10:01.360] So I will...
[01:10:01.360 -> 01:10:04.320] You won't find any means of doing it because it's not true.
[01:10:04.320 -> 01:10:09.160] So just because he's massively underperforming has scored less than 4%
[01:10:09.160 -> 01:10:17.960] of the team's points has been off the pace, has been in the wall
[01:10:17.960 -> 01:10:29.640] more often than not has damaged the development of pace. If you look at it, over races, some races, he's as quick as Alex Albon.
[01:10:29.640 -> 01:10:34.120] And that is no mean achievement because Alex Albon is quick.
[01:10:34.120 -> 01:10:37.160] He for me is the most underrated driver in Formula One.
[01:10:37.160 -> 01:10:39.760] And he's the guy who's actually in demand right now.
[01:10:39.760 -> 01:10:44.680] Red Bull would love to have Alex Albon back, but they can't get him now because they blew
[01:10:44.680 -> 01:10:45.040] it and they let him go and took get him now because they blew it. And
[01:10:45.040 -> 01:10:48.520] they let him go and took Sergio Perez instead because they thought it was a good idea at
[01:10:48.520 -> 01:10:50.360] the time. Well done, Helmut.
[01:10:50.360 -> 01:10:55.460] So in my defense, you're right, I won't be able to go and get the exact financial records
[01:10:55.460 -> 01:10:56.460] from Williams to prove the point.
[01:10:56.460 -> 01:10:59.820] Well, you won't. Even if you could, you wouldn't find anything because the reason Logan Sargent
[01:10:59.820 -> 01:11:08.140] is there is he is quick and he's American. And the Darleton project is as much about being American as it is about being
[01:11:08.140 -> 01:11:11.240] Williams. If you look at the sponsors who will be appearing
[01:11:11.240 -> 01:11:14.160] on that thing, they're American sponsors, these people are smart
[01:11:14.160 -> 01:11:16.720] enough to realize that the future of Formula One is in
[01:11:16.720 -> 01:11:17.340] America.
[01:11:17.360 -> 01:11:19.960] So you're saying partially he's there down to the money that he
[01:11:19.960 -> 01:11:20.840] can bring into the team?
[01:11:21.280 -> 01:11:21.800] No.
[01:11:22.120 -> 01:11:23.700] So like an Ericsson situation?
[01:11:23.720 -> 01:11:27.040] I'm saying that success brings money,
[01:11:27.040 -> 01:11:32.640] okay? It doesn't matter what nationality you are, success brings money. The fact that if you have
[01:11:32.640 -> 01:11:38.320] a competitive American, you're going to have a big advantage over teams that don't have a
[01:11:38.320 -> 01:11:44.480] competitive American. If you're selling to an American major league company, if you're selling
[01:11:44.480 -> 01:11:45.520] to Microsoft or whoever, if you've got a successful American racing driver, you're selling to an American major league company, if you're selling to Microsoft or
[01:11:45.520 -> 01:11:49.600] whoever, if you've got a successful American racing driver, you're going to have more luck
[01:11:49.600 -> 01:11:51.100] selling that.
[01:11:51.100 -> 01:11:56.940] And who is the most likely person to succeed from America in the next five years?
[01:11:56.940 -> 01:11:59.440] Is it Herter with Andretti?
[01:11:59.440 -> 01:12:00.440] No.
[01:12:00.440 -> 01:12:01.440] Okay.
[01:12:01.440 -> 01:12:03.860] It's Logan Sargent.
[01:12:03.860 -> 01:12:07.440] So I think you've created a sort of another term and it was,
[01:12:07.440 -> 01:12:12.080] let's see who did this, Christopher Fonseca in the live chat suggests perhaps instead of pay
[01:12:12.080 -> 01:12:17.920] drivers we call them drivers with national sponsors and create a little subcategory.
[01:12:17.920 -> 01:12:22.880] Yeah, it might come under the same category. No, but not might, Perez is there because of
[01:12:22.880 -> 01:12:26.120] Carlos Slim. So if we, who was looking for a Mexican driver.
[01:12:26.120 -> 01:12:29.960] So I'm happy to have that subcategory if you want to include Ericsson in that.
[01:12:29.960 -> 01:12:36.680] No, no, you know, you can't, you can't just, they are there on ability, first of all, lesser
[01:12:36.680 -> 01:12:39.640] or greater ability, but they are there on ability.
[01:12:39.640 -> 01:12:45.160] It just so happens that the money attaches themselves at it to them, because
[01:12:45.440 -> 01:12:49.040] of what they are. And because they're quick. It's as simple as
[01:12:49.040 -> 01:12:55.160] that. It's not there's no sort of there's no conspiracy of pay
[01:12:55.160 -> 01:12:59.240] drivers. Too many fans in Formula One see conspiracies
[01:12:59.240 -> 01:13:03.360] where there aren't any. I mean, sometimes there are conspiracies,
[01:13:03.360 -> 01:13:06.120] but not nearly as much as people on the internet
[01:13:06.120 -> 01:13:07.120] think.
[01:13:07.120 -> 01:13:09.480] You know, it's just not like that.
[01:13:09.480 -> 01:13:16.200] Because they're too busy trying to make cars go fast to actually have all these incredibly
[01:13:16.200 -> 01:13:19.280] complicated plans that people dream up because they've got nothing better to do.
[01:13:19.280 -> 01:13:23.560] Okay, but I do still stick to my original point, which is that Williams benefit financially
[01:13:23.560 -> 01:13:26.760] from having Logan Sargent there. And that's part of the reason he's there.
[01:13:26.760 -> 01:13:27.760] No.
[01:13:27.760 -> 01:13:28.760] That's fair.
[01:13:28.760 -> 01:13:31.800] They don't benefit massively from any sponsorship at the moment.
[01:13:31.800 -> 01:13:32.800] No, okay.
[01:13:32.800 -> 01:13:37.560] But the fact is that they may do in the future and that's what they see. That's where they
[01:13:37.560 -> 01:13:40.920] see the value and they're willing to, I mean, they're not going to keep him forever. If
[01:13:40.920 -> 01:13:46.960] he doesn't deliver in year two, you'll probably see him getting slung out. But what they believe in is
[01:13:47.040 -> 01:13:50.440] bringing on a driver and drivers because if you look at their
[01:13:50.440 -> 01:13:53.320] young driver program, they got four or five young drivers,
[01:13:53.720 -> 01:13:57.160] because it's cheaper. It's cheaper to develop drivers and
[01:13:57.160 -> 01:14:01.120] is to buy them in later on. And this is the irony of it all, you
[01:14:01.120 -> 01:14:07.320] know, Red Bull originally had Alex Albon when he was about 13 or 14, dropped him, then eventually
[01:14:07.320 -> 01:14:10.040] took him up again, then dropped him again. And what they've
[01:14:10.040 -> 01:14:13.040] done is they've created a fantastic racing driver, because
[01:14:13.040 -> 01:14:16.440] they've made him tough, more than anything else mentally. And
[01:14:16.440 -> 01:14:18.840] that's what you need as a racing driver more than anything else
[01:14:18.840 -> 01:14:22.320] is mental toughness. They've created one by just continually
[01:14:22.320 -> 01:14:26.920] screwing him around. And he's done, He's delivered the goods pretty much all along the way
[01:14:26.920 -> 01:14:28.440] You can't say that
[01:14:28.440 -> 01:14:32.560] Alex has ever know when he was when he was teammate to Max
[01:14:32.560 -> 01:14:35.360] He did a better job than all the other blokes. You'd been teammate to Max. That's
[01:14:36.280 -> 01:14:38.640] Arguably fair that is arguably fair Joe Joe
[01:14:39.520 -> 01:14:40.760] Okay
[01:14:40.760 -> 01:14:44.540] Yeah, cuz yeah apart from when he hit Hamilton on the way to that podium on Brazil
[01:14:44.540 -> 01:14:45.640] He did pretty well and he hit Hamilton on the way to that podium in Brazil, he did pretty well.
[01:14:45.640 -> 01:14:47.600] And he hit Hamilton in Austria as well.
[01:14:47.600 -> 01:14:52.520] Excuse me, excuse me, Hamilton hit him in Brazil, you silly person.
[01:14:52.520 -> 01:14:53.520] This has been a good row.
[01:14:53.520 -> 01:14:55.720] I've enjoyed this, Joe.
[01:14:55.720 -> 01:15:00.920] And if you want to listen to Joe, where I don't get a word in edgewise, and I don't
[01:15:00.920 -> 01:15:10.800] get to have a fight with him, come and join us for the virtual live audience, the Thursday 8 p.m. UK time, before the Brazilian Grand Prix weekend. Come and buy a seat on that,
[01:15:10.800 -> 01:15:16.760] it's very, it's an intimate Zoom call and the content is driven by your questions. Open a
[01:15:16.760 -> 01:15:21.080] bottle of wine and have a fun evening hanging out with us guys. But the thing I do want to
[01:15:21.080 -> 01:15:25.760] direct people to, which I've taken a while to get converted to
[01:15:25.760 -> 01:15:31.040] and be all in on, is your newsletter. Firstly, because newsletters are something that
[01:15:31.040 -> 01:15:37.040] 100 year old people do and read. So I don't subscribe to any newsletter ever. Yours is the
[01:15:37.040 -> 01:15:45.920] only newsletter that I have, and it has been one of my biggest kind of tools of information to unpick what is really happening
[01:15:45.920 -> 01:15:51.600] in Formula One. And this is like an insider industry newsletter. You do you charge for it.
[01:15:51.600 -> 01:15:57.520] Can I say at this point also that it's not just you Spanners who read it, team principals read it.
[01:15:57.520 -> 01:15:58.480] There we go. Yeah.
[01:15:59.040 -> 01:16:05.400] People in the FIA read it, people at Formula One read it, people in IndyCar teams read it, because it's
[01:16:05.400 -> 01:16:09.720] what's going on, analysed in a sensible fashion.
[01:16:09.720 -> 01:16:13.680] And that is completely different to everything you can read on the internet, believe me.
[01:16:13.680 -> 01:16:17.360] It's worth its weight in gold, I would say, but I would say that because I'm biased.
[01:16:17.360 -> 01:16:18.640] Yeah, you do charge for it.
[01:16:18.640 -> 01:16:19.640] Like it carries a price tag.
[01:16:19.640 -> 01:16:20.640] Yes, of course I charge it.
[01:16:20.640 -> 01:16:27.600] But you think I can swan around the world and be in hotels in Texas just by sponsorship?
[01:16:27.600 -> 01:16:33.280] I think if you enjoy being the F1 little know-it-all at the pub or on your Reddit posts or whatever,
[01:16:34.800 -> 01:16:41.440] that's where you pay the money. But it's expensive. I think it's expensive, but your GP Plus magazine
[01:16:41.440 -> 01:16:45.480] is a steal and people should sign up to GP Plus magazine.
[01:16:45.480 -> 01:16:46.960] That's also true. It is a steal.
[01:16:46.960 -> 01:16:47.960] There is a steal.
[01:16:47.960 -> 01:16:50.840] If you look at a subscription to one of these monthly magazines,
[01:16:51.320 -> 01:16:52.600] they cost a fortune too.
[01:16:52.600 -> 01:16:53.520] Yeah, that's true.
[01:16:53.520 -> 01:16:56.720] So, you know, if you get the JSBM newsletter and you work it out
[01:16:56.720 -> 01:16:58.800] and what you get for it, it's a very good deal.
[01:16:58.840 -> 01:16:59.960] There we go. So check that out.
[01:16:59.960 -> 01:17:02.440] We'll do the links to that in the show notes.
[01:17:02.440 -> 01:17:04.880] If Joe, if you could send me the links, because I've lost them,
[01:17:08.520 -> 01:17:09.520] to that and to the live virtual audience as well. Thank you so much.
[01:17:09.520 -> 01:17:11.660] Go and follow Joe at Joe Saywood on Twitter.
[01:17:11.660 -> 01:17:15.240] Follow me as well at SpannersReady and tune in next time.
[01:17:15.240 -> 01:17:17.600] We go Inside F1 with Joe Saywood.
[01:17:17.600 -> 01:17:18.600] Bye Joe.
[01:17:18.600 -> 01:17:19.600] Bye.
[01:17:19.600 -> 01:17:20.600] Are we still on the air?
[01:17:20.600 -> 01:17:21.600] Yeah, I pressed the wrong button a couple of times and I was hoping it would be on.
[01:17:21.600 -> 01:17:22.600] I'm sorry.
[01:17:22.600 -> 01:17:23.600] I'm sorry.
[01:17:23.600 -> 01:17:24.600] I'm sorry.
[01:17:24.600 -> 01:17:27.000] I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Are we still on the air?
[01:17:27.000 -> 01:17:30.800] Yeah, I pressed the wrong button a couple of times and I was hoping you wouldn't say
[01:17:30.800 -> 01:17:32.720] something like, are we still on the air?
[01:17:32.720 -> 01:17:33.960] And then I'd have gotten away with it.
[01:17:33.960 -> 01:17:38.400] But yeah, so I'm just going to let this music sort of pizza out.
[01:17:38.400 -> 01:17:39.400] You can't hear the music, that's why.
[01:17:39.400 -> 01:17:40.400] I can't hear the music.
[01:17:40.400 -> 01:17:41.400] No, no, it's my bad.
[01:17:41.400 -> 01:17:42.400] They can just hear us prattling on, that's fine.
[01:17:42.400 -> 01:17:47.000] But we have to get the guitar in, that's the most important thing.
[01:17:51.000 -> 01:17:53.000] Yeah, but everyone else can, Joe!
[01:17:53.000 -> 01:17:54.000] You've just got to trust me!
[01:17:54.000 -> 01:17:56.000] Why can't I hear it? Why am I allowed to listen to the guitar?
[01:17:56.000 -> 01:18:01.000] It's because you have to go back to Zoom and I don't know why it's gone to the point that the people can't hear it.
[01:18:01.000 -> 01:18:04.000] But normally I make it so you can see the graphic, at least.
[01:18:04.000 -> 01:18:06.400] So sorry for everyone on the YouTube cut.
[01:18:06.400 -> 01:18:09.960] You've just heard Joe crashing the most important bit.
[01:18:09.960 -> 01:18:12.440] Not all the fine information he gave us,
[01:18:12.440 -> 01:18:15.560] not all the fantastic debate, but the guitar,
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