Inside F1 with Joe Saward March 4th 2023

Veteran F1 scribe Joe Saward takes us deep into the paddock

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https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/05/10/green-notebook-from-route-66/

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Sure, here is a detailed summary of the podcast episode transcript:

**Introduction**

* Joe Saward, a veteran F1 journalist, joins the podcast to provide insights and analysis on the current Formula One season.
* He emphasizes the importance of building and maintaining strong relationships with team members and sources within the paddock to gather accurate information.
* Joe highlights the pressure journalists face when criticizing teams, as it can lead to teams refusing to speak to them.

**Red Bull's Dominance**

* Joe believes that Red Bull's dominance in the 2023 season is due to a combination of factors, including a highly motivated team, particularly those still upset about the cost cap controversy in 2021.
* He suggests that Red Bull may have been using the cost cap punishment as motivation to prove their superiority.
* Joe discusses the ongoing debate surrounding the cost cap, emphasizing that the regulations are still being defined and clarified.
* He cautions teams against exceeding the cost cap limit, as the FIA is determined to enforce severe penalties for violations.

**Ferrari's Struggles**

* Joe expresses concern over Ferrari's poor performance in the first race of the season, particularly Charles Leclerc's engine failure.
* He speculates that there may be an internal investigation within Ferrari to determine the cause of the engine problems.
* Joe questions the appointment of Fred Vasseur as Ferrari's new team principal, given his lack of experience in leading a top Formula One team.
* He suggests that the political dynamics within Ferrari may be affecting the team's performance and that internal discord could emerge if the situation does not improve.

**Aston Martin's Spending**

* Joe addresses the rumors of Aston Martin potentially exceeding the cost cap in 2021, but he believes that the team likely did not breach the regulations.
* He explains that teams have the flexibility to allocate funds across different financial years, allowing them to save some money for future projects.

**The Future of the 2023 Season**

* Joe predicts that Red Bull's dominance may continue throughout the season, given their current advantage and the difficulty for other teams to catch up.
* He acknowledges that there is a possibility of other teams experiencing unexpected successes or failures, which could shake up the championship standings. **Summary of the Formula One Podcast Episode:**

1. **Reliability Issues Plague Ferrari:**
- Ferrari has been experiencing reliability issues, with Charles Leclerc's car suffering from wheel brow problems in qualifying.
- Joe Saward suggests that these issues may be due to a cultural problem within the team, where basic tasks seem to fall apart under pressure.
- The team needs to address this issue, potentially through better leadership and a more inspirational leader.


2. **Aston Martin's Alleged Copying of Red Bull's Car:**
- Sergio Perez's comments about Aston Martin copying Red Bull's car sparked a debate.
- Saward acknowledges that copying ideas from other teams is common in Formula One, but it requires cleverness and skill to avoid being caught.
- He believes Aston Martin's new car is impressive, but it's still behind Red Bull in terms of race pace.


3. **Underperforming Teams:**
- Several teams, including McLaren, Alpine, and Alfa Romeo, underperformed in the first race of the season.
- Saward expresses surprise at Alpine's poor performance and McLaren's continued struggles.
- He also notes that Alfa Romeo, which had a good car last year, was nowhere to be seen.


4. **Mercedes' Struggles:**
- Mercedes, the dominant team in recent years, has had a poor start to the season.
- Saward believes that the team may have been too focused on fixing last year's problems and missed the mark this year.
- He suggests that Mercedes may need to make changes to their approach and consider a different design concept.


5. **The Importance of Race Pace:**
- Saward emphasizes the importance of race pace over qualifying pace in Formula One.
- He highlights that Red Bull's dominance in the first race was due to their superior race pace, despite Max Verstappen not having a significant advantage in qualifying.


6. **Dan Fallows' Role at Aston Martin:**
- Saward discusses Dan Fallows' move from Red Bull to Aston Martin and his impact on the team.
- He explains that Fallows is a highly valued engineer who was fought over by teams due to his expertise.
- Aston Martin's new car is a testament to Fallows' abilities, but it remains to be seen if they can continue to develop the concept successfully.


7. **Mercedes' Engineering Team:**
- Saward discusses the challenges of identifying the key engineers responsible for a team's success.
- He notes that Mercedes has a large team of engineers, and it's difficult to determine who is making the biggest difference.
- He mentions James Allison and Mike Elliott as two prominent names at Mercedes, but suggests that there are many other talented engineers behind the scenes.


8. **Toto Wolff's Influence at Mercedes:**
- Saward acknowledges Toto Wolff's significant influence at Mercedes as the team principal.
- He believes that Wolff ultimately has the final say in major decisions, even if the engineers may have different opinions.


9. **McLaren's Financial Situation:**
- Saward discusses McLaren's financial struggles and the impact it may have on the team's performance.
- He notes that the team has many rotating sponsors but questions whether they are paying substantial sums of money.
- He believes that McLaren needs to deliver on-track performance to attract and retain sponsors.


10. **Rookies' Performance:**
- Saward praises the performances of the rookie drivers in the first race, including Logan Sargent, Nick DeVries, and Oscar Piastri.
- He highlights Sargent's impressive lap one and his potential as a talented driver.
- He also acknowledges DeVries' karting achievements and his long journey to Formula One.


11. **Lando Norris' Future at McLaren:**
- Saward expresses concern about Lando Norris' future at McLaren, given the team's recent struggles.
- He believes that Norris may be running out of time if he wants to compete for championships. # Missed Apex Podcast Episode 123: Joe Saward

## Summary:

### Introduction:

* The podcast begins with a discussion about the upcoming 2023 Formula One season and the potential for a grid filled entirely with talented drivers.
* Veteran F1 scribe Joe Saward joins the hosts to provide his insights on the topic.

### Pay Drivers in Formula One:

* The conversation centers around the declining presence of pay drivers in Formula One.
* Saward argues that the current grid is the least pay-driver-y grid in history, with all drivers possessing genuine talent.
* He attributes this to the increasing costs associated with carbon fiber damage, making it less financially viable for teams to field pay drivers.

### Lance Stroll's Performance:

* The hosts discuss Lance Stroll's impressive performance at the Bahrain Grand Prix despite suffering from broken hands.
* Saward commends Stroll's determination and motivation, noting that he has had more chances than most drivers to prove himself.
* However, Saward also highlights the need for Stroll to consistently perform at a high level to avoid being labeled as a pay driver.

### The Talent Level of the 2023 Grid:

* The discussion shifts to the overall talent level of the 2023 grid.
* Saward believes that all the drivers on the grid are talented, but some have had more opportunities than others to showcase their skills.
* He emphasizes the importance of drivers getting enough time to prove themselves, as some may take longer to adapt to Formula One.

### The Future of Pay Drivers:

* The hosts speculate about the future of pay drivers in Formula One.
* Saward predicts that the number of pay drivers will continue to decline due to the increasing costs associated with running a Formula One team.
* He also notes that sponsors are becoming more selective in their partnerships with drivers, preferring those with genuine talent and potential.

### Conclusion:

* The podcast concludes with a discussion about the upcoming races and the potential for exciting battles throughout the 2023 Formula One season.
* Saward expresses his enthusiasm for the season and his belief that it will be one of the most competitive in recent memory.

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[00:55.760 -> 01:10.760] fantasy sports made easy. You are listening to missed apex podcast we live f1
[01:20.000 -> 01:25.000] welcome to inside f1 with Joe Sayward on MissedApex Podcast.
[01:25.000 -> 01:33.000] I'm your host, Richard Ready, and today I'm joined by the most experienced F1 journalist in the multiverse.
[01:33.000 -> 01:37.000] Someone who has attended every race since 1988.
[01:37.000 -> 01:43.000] He stalks the paddock for news, like Alonso stalks for understeery Mercedes.
[01:43.000 -> 01:46.480] If a team principal sneezes, this man knows where
[01:46.480 -> 01:50.480] you can find the handkerchief. It's Joe Sayward. Hey, Uncle Joe.
[01:51.200 -> 01:56.080] You've quite put me off my tea, that. Yeah, thank you for that. I shall wander around
[01:56.080 -> 01:58.880] the paddock thinking that I'm covered in snot from now on.
[02:00.240 -> 02:03.200] There's a lot of new listeners to Missed Apex who've joined us over the winter, Joe,
[02:03.200 -> 02:08.760] so I just wanted them to make sure that they knew that Uncle Joe prowls the paddock, you've
[02:08.760 -> 02:13.560] got your finger in every pocket, you have lunch and volavonts at every motorhome, except
[02:13.560 -> 02:14.560] one.
[02:14.560 -> 02:18.720] Well, there are several actually that I'm not particularly popular at, but you know,
[02:18.720 -> 02:22.280] the fact is if you're going to tell it how it is, sometimes you're going to knock a few
[02:22.280 -> 02:29.520] noses out of joint and some of those noses are very expensive noses. And I was thinking about this earlier today with Ted Kravitz, you
[02:29.520 -> 02:36.160] know, he really faced a pretty severe backlash when he criticised or pointed out what was going
[02:36.160 -> 02:41.200] on at the end of 2021, saying Lewis Hamilton was robbed of the title and then there seemed to be
[02:41.200 -> 02:47.000] this embargo of the whole of Sky TV and that puts an awful lot of pressure on a journalist
[02:47.000 -> 02:50.000] if a team is that upset that they just won't speak to you.
[02:50.000 -> 02:51.000] So it's a line...
[02:51.000 -> 02:56.000] No, I don't agree. It's because they're stupid if they have an embargo on you
[02:56.000 -> 02:59.000] because that means you can't... you can say what you like
[02:59.000 -> 03:00.000] and they don't have any comeback.
[03:00.000 -> 03:04.000] It's their choice if they want to say, well, I'm not talking to him.
[03:04.000 -> 03:09.600] But ultimately, if they don't talk to me, I will make up my mind without their input.
[03:09.600 -> 03:13.900] And if they complain about it, I'll say, sorry, you didn't give me any input, which is perfectly
[03:13.900 -> 03:14.900] fine by me.
[03:14.900 -> 03:17.840] So I'm just trying to do the best job possible.
[03:17.840 -> 03:19.800] And if they don't like it, that's their problem.
[03:19.800 -> 03:27.680] So you know, there's really nothing, there's nothing really that is gained from banning journalists.
[03:27.680 -> 03:30.400] And the smart PR people know that.
[03:30.400 -> 03:38.560] Trouble is that the PR people are often overruled by their billionaire schmucks who own teams
[03:38.560 -> 03:42.240] and things like that and think they have an idea of what to do.
[03:42.240 -> 03:45.120] But it does, I mean, it does happen from time to time. So for
[03:45.120 -> 03:48.800] you walking around the paddock, I guess you have rich veins of
[03:48.840 -> 03:52.840] information that you tap. And, you know, as an independent, it
[03:52.840 -> 03:55.760] will be a little bit will it be peaky? Is it peaky? Is it like,
[03:55.840 -> 03:56.440] oh, if an alpha...
[03:56.440 -> 03:59.560] It changes, it changes from year to year, but generally, it's the
[03:59.560 -> 04:03.200] same kind of level. I mean, people come, people go. And, but
[04:03.200 -> 04:05.440] you know, you're always developing new sources.
[04:05.440 -> 04:12.000] And when you lose one, you usually have more. So I'm, I'm pretty much cool with the whole
[04:12.000 -> 04:16.160] situation. And everybody is. The thing is, also, you have to bear in mind that
[04:17.440 -> 04:23.040] sources are not just people who wander around the paddock. People wander around the teams and don't
[04:23.040 -> 04:25.560] appear in the paddock are just as good sources.
[04:26.680 -> 04:29.160] There's lots of sources out there. So I'd say probably half
[04:29.160 -> 04:31.480] my sources are not actually wandering around the paddock.
[04:32.240 -> 04:34.920] They might, they might be sometimes there. But you know,
[04:34.960 -> 04:38.120] they're not always there. And they're just as valuable as the
[04:38.120 -> 04:41.760] other ones. So you know, the end of the day, all we're trying to
[04:41.760 -> 04:49.600] do is tell the story properly. And, you know, of course, if you tell the story properly, you upset people a little bit sometimes.
[04:49.600 -> 04:53.680] And we get the odd source, you know, Joe, nothing like you, but we do get the odd cheeky,
[04:53.680 -> 04:58.560] like, you know, person, you know, Derek in the battery bay. He's like, I fancy causing some chaos
[04:58.560 -> 05:03.360] and sending stuff your way. The difference is when I say it, everyone just assumes I made it up.
[05:04.240 -> 05:05.640] Yeah, I mean, it happens all the time.
[05:05.640 -> 05:08.240] I get anonymous tips and sometimes it's interesting.
[05:08.240 -> 05:11.440] You know, the anonymous tip is a really interesting thing
[05:11.440 -> 05:13.960] because you have to look at it and say, why is somebody doing this?
[05:13.960 -> 05:16.720] And if you can work out why they're doing it,
[05:16.720 -> 05:19.360] then you know whether it's valuable or not.
[05:19.360 -> 05:24.920] And very often it's it's impossible to work out why people do things.
[05:24.920 -> 05:26.400] And so I tend to ignore them.
[05:26.400 -> 05:31.900] But sometimes they're just, you know, they're so outlandish they have to be true.
[05:31.900 -> 05:38.900] So, I try not to use them, but if I can back them up by some other means.
[05:38.900 -> 05:41.900] You know, if you get a tip and you go and ask a few questions, it gives you a...
[05:41.900 -> 05:42.900] It gives you a thread, yeah.
[05:42.900 -> 05:44.900] Well, it gives you a... It's like being a detective.
[05:44.900 -> 05:48.480] You get one clue and you have to, you know, play Cluedo. Actually
[05:48.480 -> 05:52.440] it is very like being a detective, honestly. It's exactly like being a detective, that's
[05:52.440 -> 05:57.760] right Joe. I think we're trumping that up a little bit. How was Bahrain though? Because
[05:57.760 -> 06:01.600] we were just chatting before the show and in my head, Bahrain's only been on the calendar
[06:01.600 -> 06:08.800] for about four or five years, but it was actually 2004, you said, was the first Bahrain World Prix. I think I'm pretty... I'd have to look it up to
[06:08.800 -> 06:12.080] be 100% certain, but I'm pretty sure it is. Every year we get one of these. Look!
[06:12.800 -> 06:16.640] For the audio listeners, he's holding up a number plate. Oh, it's a commemorative number plate. Who
[06:16.640 -> 06:20.320] gives you that? It's a commemorative number plate with the date of the race. That's from
[06:20.320 -> 06:28.000] the race organiser, and I have about 20 of them, or 19 of them, I think. So, and we were certainly there.
[06:28.000 -> 06:31.000] I mean, I remember very specifically years like 2007
[06:33.320 -> 06:36.520] and eight and that sort of era when I'm, you know,
[06:36.520 -> 06:38.520] you sort of have certain memories about it,
[06:38.520 -> 06:39.820] but we were going before then.
[06:39.820 -> 06:41.680] My first year was in a wonderful hotel
[06:41.680 -> 06:43.480] called the Relaxed Inn.
[06:43.480 -> 06:49.680] And the Relaxed Inn, as you may imagine, was a place that Allah doesn't look very often.
[06:49.680 -> 06:55.140] And you know, that's always sort of fun memories going back in the old days of little mini
[06:55.140 -> 06:56.960] riots and things like that.
[06:56.960 -> 06:58.760] And just very good times as well.
[06:58.760 -> 07:09.920] So it's all, nowadays, it's very pleasant in Bah Bahrain and they're making a lot of progress.
[07:09.920 -> 07:15.360] And the buildings, you know, the town is very much a happy place.
[07:15.360 -> 07:18.160] You don't see any sort of really troubles anymore.
[07:18.160 -> 07:23.000] Well, I think we'll hear no more about the relaxing inn, unless we have like an after
[07:23.000 -> 07:24.000] dark...
[07:24.000 -> 07:25.040] Relax in.
[07:25.040 -> 07:26.920] Yeah, all right, all right, okay.
[07:26.920 -> 07:28.600] But look, I don't know if there's any point
[07:28.600 -> 07:30.120] in having you on for the rest of the season, Joe,
[07:30.120 -> 07:34.160] because as the internet has declared, it's all over.
[07:34.160 -> 07:35.880] It's not even worth thinking about anymore.
[07:35.880 -> 07:38.800] Verstappen's got it all, he's got it all sewn up.
[07:38.800 -> 07:42.880] Is that what the paddock and the press is thinking as well?
[07:44.320 -> 07:46.440] Well, it doesn't really matter what the press is thinking, does it?
[07:46.440 -> 07:51.720] Cause we don't have a clue, but, um, I would suggest that probably yes, that is true.
[07:52.360 -> 07:53.680] They were so dominant.
[07:53.960 -> 07:59.280] Um, you know, Max wasn't pushing it totally, uh, by the end of the race,
[07:59.280 -> 08:00.800] he really wasn't leaning on it.
[08:02.160 -> 08:05.600] So yes, his only opposition is Sergio Perez and that's the end of that really,
[08:05.600 -> 08:12.800] isn't it? So if Fernando Alonso is the best they can do and he was 35 seconds behind at the end,
[08:14.320 -> 08:20.320] it's kind of desperate really. But we know, we can hope that Ferrari will wake up, we can hope
[08:20.320 -> 08:29.000] that Mercedes will do something, we can hope that Alpine will do something. Um, and I hope that others won't implode, but the fact is that, and
[08:29.000 -> 08:30.500] I have a theory about this, actually.
[08:30.500 -> 08:31.000] Ooh, okay.
[08:31.660 -> 08:33.260] You can, you can enjoy this one.
[08:34.160 -> 08:37.340] And that is a lot of the people at Red Bull, the important people, the
[08:37.340 -> 08:41.380] engineers, the people who make things happen and make things go fast.
[08:42.380 -> 08:48.640] We're very angry last year as a result of the cost cap, a fuffle.
[08:49.520 -> 08:53.680] And the punishment that came as a result of basically a bunch of people winding up a
[08:53.680 -> 08:58.120] problem to a level at which the FIA then had to react at a suitable level.
[08:58.640 -> 09:02.120] And they were furious because basically said that you're a bunch of cheats.
[09:02.520 -> 09:06.300] And so I think a lot of them got together, put their head down there with
[09:06.300 -> 09:09.360] Wynter and said, right, we're going to teach those bastards a lesson.
[09:10.020 -> 09:13.700] We're going to show that we can do even with less aero time, and we're going to
[09:13.700 -> 09:17.460] blow their socks off just to prove we're the best and they can all.
[09:19.140 -> 09:19.460] Okay.
[09:19.460 -> 09:20.520] Thanks for mouthing that Joe.
[09:20.520 -> 09:24.260] That's that shows great personal growth and thank you for thinking about my edit.
[09:24.580 -> 09:27.920] But has that, that punishment hasn't really kicked in yet though has it?
[09:28.560 -> 09:34.720] Yes it has, I mean they get a punishment anyway for being the best team last year so
[09:35.920 -> 09:42.400] they get less time in the wind tunnel anyway from 21 if you like so you know they're still
[09:42.400 -> 09:46.180] at the end of the day they're better better. And they're more motivated, clearly, because
[09:46.180 -> 09:48.560] they I think there were just a lot of furious people going,
[09:48.560 -> 09:52.440] right, we're going to do this. And, you know, the motivated
[09:52.440 -> 09:54.360] people at Mercedes and the motivated people at other
[09:54.360 -> 09:56.840] places weren't quite as motivated. And there's nothing
[09:56.840 -> 10:01.320] quite like a bit of revenge is always a good motivator. Anger
[10:01.320 -> 10:04.720] is a great motivator. And failure is a good motivator,
[10:04.720 -> 10:05.760] too. But I
[10:05.760 -> 10:10.760] think in this case, some of those Red Bull boys are really happy.
[10:10.760 -> 10:15.840] Okay, they're happy now, but so that whole, you know, drive to survive thing of Christian
[10:15.840 -> 10:20.560] Horner saying, well, they were really the victims out of the cost cap stuff. So that's
[10:20.560 -> 10:23.840] not for show, like Red Bull really do feel like they were the ones...
[10:23.840 -> 10:25.680] No, no, they felt that at the time.
[10:26.000 -> 10:31.920] And I mean, I remember talking to Helmut Marko one day in, I couldn't remember which race it was,
[10:31.920 -> 10:33.600] maybe it was Austin, probably.
[10:34.720 -> 10:36.800] And I said, what do you think the punishment will be?
[10:37.760 -> 10:40.480] You know, we got to that level at that point.
[10:40.480 -> 10:42.960] And he said, whatever it is, it's too much.
[10:42.960 -> 10:46.160] And I said, well, come on, you know, if you if you got over the limit,
[10:47.040 -> 10:50.440] well, you know, you need to have some punishment. He said,
[10:50.440 -> 10:52.280] we've already had the punishment, all the negative
[10:52.280 -> 10:56.360] publicity we've had long before any of this came out, which is
[10:56.360 -> 10:58.960] basically stirred up by people who shouldn't know what's going
[10:58.960 -> 11:01.400] on, because it's supposed to be confidential. You know,
[11:01.400 -> 11:04.840] somewhere or other, there was a leak to other teams, and they
[11:04.840 -> 11:05.080] seem to know exactly what was going on all the time. So confidential. You know, somewhere or other, there was a leak to other teams and they seemed
[11:05.080 -> 11:09.240] to know exactly what was going on all the time. So there's a lot of question marks there
[11:09.240 -> 11:15.360] about the way it was handled. And the way that the, that it was media, I would call
[11:15.360 -> 11:19.960] it media manipulation that stirred up this great hornet's nest before anyone knew the
[11:19.960 -> 11:27.200] actual detail. And, and I think that, that as a result of that, the FIA kind of had to react to what
[11:27.200 -> 11:29.280] was going on because otherwise they would look weak.
[11:29.280 -> 11:34.560] That's a good point, but wouldn't, as a counter, I mean, couldn't they have just stayed within
[11:34.560 -> 11:36.040] the cost cap as well?
[11:36.040 -> 11:40.840] Yeah, but they were really not far off it. That's the point. The thing is, it's just
[11:40.840 -> 11:52.320] a matter of when you have a new rule in anything, okay, you have a new technical regulation about the size of, or a design box, or an aerodynamic tweak, and they all
[11:52.320 -> 11:54.040] have little ideas.
[11:54.040 -> 11:58.240] They look at the regulations and they look for loopholes, and then they try to exploit
[11:58.240 -> 12:00.640] that loophole, then they argue the case.
[12:00.640 -> 12:02.960] And it's exactly the same with the financial regulations.
[12:02.960 -> 12:06.680] They set out to go under the limit.
[12:06.680 -> 12:07.960] They didn't set out to try and cheat.
[12:07.960 -> 12:09.800] And the FIA clearly said they're not trying to cheat.
[12:09.800 -> 12:14.520] They're just pushing to see how far you can go.
[12:14.520 -> 12:18.560] And so really what's happening now is that the regulations,
[12:18.560 -> 12:20.400] hang on, just let me finish.
[12:20.400 -> 12:24.640] The regulations are sort of being shrink-wrapped,
[12:24.640 -> 12:27.360] shrink-wrapped around what they're meant to be.
[12:27.360 -> 12:29.320] And we find out exactly what that means.
[12:29.320 -> 12:35.360] Now this year already, Red Bull, because they're still annoyed about it, Christian was talking
[12:35.360 -> 12:42.120] about some government, I mean, all this stuff is so dull, I can't be bothered with it, but
[12:42.120 -> 12:45.200] there's government grants that are been counted twice or something.
[12:45.200 -> 12:49.200] He was banging on about how certain teams, in other words, he means Mercedes and Aston
[12:49.200 -> 12:55.520] Martin, have been able to include these things in their budget calculations, which isn't right.
[12:56.960 -> 13:07.080] I couldn't give a monkeys. But the fact is that if nobody is setting out to cheat, which I see nobody doing it deliberately,
[13:07.080 -> 13:11.640] but you know, he wants revenge on what happened last year because they are still unhappy about
[13:11.640 -> 13:12.640] it.
[13:12.640 -> 13:13.640] There's nothing you can do about it.
[13:13.640 -> 13:16.860] It's happened, the regulations were like that, but they are unhappy about it.
[13:16.860 -> 13:20.280] And so what you saw on Drive to Survive, yes, that was how they felt.
[13:20.280 -> 13:21.280] That's interesting.
[13:21.280 -> 13:24.740] I mean, I've bored the Missed Apex listeners to death with my opinion on it.
[13:24.740 -> 13:28.080] So I'm going to ask some other Red Bull related questions. I'll just say,
[13:28.080 -> 13:32.080] I would like to have seen what Mercedes could have done with an extra half a million pounds
[13:32.080 -> 13:34.880] in 2021. And that's, that's the side I look at from.
[13:34.880 -> 13:38.800] They could have had biscuits with the tea. That's the sort of level you're talking about.
[13:38.800 -> 13:45.200] You have to bear in mind, there are things that don't register on the scale.
[13:45.200 -> 13:49.400] For example, a Formula One program to a car manufacturer is a bit like changing the rear
[13:49.400 -> 13:51.400] windscreen of a car.
[13:51.400 -> 13:56.480] Seriously, it's that unimportant a number in the overall scheme of things when you get
[13:56.480 -> 13:58.720] into the billions, what it actually costs them.
[13:58.720 -> 14:03.400] So everybody in the sport gets very excited about how important Formula One is, but ultimately
[14:03.400 -> 14:04.400] we're not.
[14:04.400 -> 14:07.520] And everybody gets excited about half a million because it sounds a lot of money
[14:07.520 -> 14:09.120] to us, but it doesn't go very far.
[14:10.160 -> 14:13.880] You know, I don't know what, if you can, if you can analyze what it costs for one
[14:13.880 -> 14:17.520] day in the wind tunnel, by the time you've added in everything, including the model
[14:17.520 -> 14:19.120] makers, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
[14:19.480 -> 14:21.120] But it's, you know, forget it.
[14:21.160 -> 14:23.800] It's a tiny amount of money that they went over by.
[14:24.040 -> 14:24.360] Yeah.
[14:24.480 -> 14:30.360] Well, my advice to Mercedes would just be just to go over it this year and spend that
[14:30.360 -> 14:34.920] money. But if they go over it this year the FIA will be duty-bound to punish
[14:34.920 -> 14:39.200] them in a severe way because they've already they've set the bar now they've
[14:39.200 -> 14:43.240] said okay this is what's gonna happen if you do it anyone who goes over that bar
[14:43.240 -> 14:45.200] is gonna get nailed so that's the way it. Anyone who goes over that bar is going to get nailed.
[14:45.200 -> 14:51.440] So that's the way it is. And to be fair, that's not a bad idea, except that you have to, in order
[14:51.440 -> 14:59.280] to achieve that level of sort of crucifixion, you have to start with somebody who gets the severe
[14:59.280 -> 15:04.080] punishment to start with. So you want basically to scare everybody off. And that's what they've
[15:04.080 -> 15:09.840] done very successfully. So I doubt very much that anybody is going to go near it. They're all
[15:09.840 -> 15:13.320] going to try and dance around it as much as they can and get as much in there as they
[15:13.320 -> 15:17.720] can. But you know, they're not going to take undue risks.
[15:17.720 -> 15:22.360] That's the message to Mercedes. You should have done it in 2021. And it's too late. It's
[15:22.360 -> 15:23.360] too late now.
[15:23.360 -> 15:26.480] It's not just Mercedes. It's also, I mean, well,
[15:26.480 -> 15:28.600] I've heard people say that Aston Martin must have done it
[15:28.600 -> 15:30.560] in 2021 given the spending levels,
[15:30.560 -> 15:31.840] but that's another story.
[15:31.840 -> 15:32.960] I'm sure they didn't.
[15:32.960 -> 15:34.720] I've definitely got Aston Martin questions for you, Joe.
[15:34.720 -> 15:36.240] And we've got some listener questions
[15:36.240 -> 15:38.040] from our fine patrons as well.
[15:38.040 -> 15:40.360] But cost cap aside, Red Bull have come out
[15:40.360 -> 15:43.960] with a fantastic car and they're a team that have done it
[15:43.960 -> 15:49.240] basically for the second time, have come out and looked like a front-running team and they could
[15:49.240 -> 15:53.700] be facing another kind of Vettel era of domination as well. What I want to know
[15:53.700 -> 15:59.020] is what have they done, what have they done right? How are they this dominant?
[15:59.020 -> 16:06.320] Especially with, in theory, equal spending. Well it's a really difficult answer to come up with. But what
[16:06.320 -> 16:11.280] happens every time there's a major regulation change in Formula One in the modern era now,
[16:12.240 -> 16:17.120] somebody gets it right and other people get it wrong. And what then happens is that you have a
[16:17.120 -> 16:21.680] period in which that benefit that they get from getting it right at the beginning is carried
[16:21.680 -> 16:29.280] through because development is going on all the time. So everyone is developing at effectively the same rate because they can only do so much,
[16:29.280 -> 16:36.640] but they're all working day and night. It's like a nuclear arms race. They all keep going and what
[16:36.640 -> 16:41.920] do you gain at the end of it? You just stay where you are. So the fact is every time there's a new
[16:41.920 -> 16:48.480] set of regulations, somebody comes out on top. And this time Red Bull came out on top with the 2021 new regs.
[16:48.480 -> 16:52.000] Or sorry, yeah, 2021 new regs.
[16:52.000 -> 16:53.000] Yeah.
[16:53.000 -> 16:54.000] No.
[16:54.000 -> 16:55.000] Into 2022.
[16:55.000 -> 16:56.000] Yeah, 2022.
[16:56.000 -> 16:57.000] Yeah, exactly.
[16:57.000 -> 17:00.840] Basically, they've had two seasons where they've been pretty dominant.
[17:00.840 -> 17:12.120] And I can foresee it going on for some time, just as Mercedes did it for seven years from 2013 onwards and Red Bull before then from 2010 to 13 or 9 to 14, whatever
[17:12.120 -> 17:20.240] it is. That's how it tends to be now, because it is just a, it's a battle of attrition and
[17:20.240 -> 17:24.360] you've got people working as many hours there. And that's why we're cutting back on everything
[17:24.360 -> 17:27.200] because everybody's working all around the clock if they're allowed to
[17:28.000 -> 17:32.640] and everybody's moving forward at the same rate which doesn't make any sense at all if you think
[17:32.640 -> 17:37.600] about it. It's just burning money. They should all just stand around a fire and lob piles of money in.
[17:37.600 -> 17:42.000] Well don't some of the teams, you know, they actively think about writing off one season
[17:42.000 -> 17:48.680] for the sake of another so you almost have to like time that. And is that a little subtle way around the cost cap is like, you can, you can
[17:48.680 -> 17:52.760] save a bit of money by using today's, this season's money on next year's
[17:52.760 -> 17:53.740] car and that kind of thing.
[17:54.720 -> 17:59.280] To be honest, what you can do, you've got a financial year and you've got to
[17:59.280 -> 18:02.840] fit the money and you sort of save some for the year after if you don't use it
[18:02.840 -> 18:10.880] the first time, but, um, you can,, you can do, what teams used to do when money was not a problem is they'd have two
[18:10.880 -> 18:15.520] projects going, you'd have the following year's car and the year after's car going at the same
[18:15.520 -> 18:20.880] time. And that gave you the opportunity to make big leaps forward, but you can't do that anymore
[18:20.880 -> 18:28.560] in terms of the, I mean, maybe they are doing it. You know, there's talk that Mercedes has a B plan, which is one with different
[18:29.600 -> 18:34.040] pods, but this year on the basis that the other one was still a bunch of maybes,
[18:34.080 -> 18:36.960] but you've got to have very, very good financial planning to do that.
[18:37.720 -> 18:42.500] Whatever the case, you know, they've all had their socks blown off and they now
[18:42.500 -> 18:50.040] have to figure out how the hell to get back in. Now, before we all get too carried away, we should also say that, you know, there
[18:50.040 -> 18:55.440] is a level of specificity in the different circuits, but I think that the
[18:55.440 -> 18:58.400] Red Bull's got such a big advantage this year that it's going to be, it's going
[18:58.400 -> 18:59.480] to be good at all the tracks.
[18:59.720 -> 19:04.000] Well, I thought what was scary was that I thought this is not traditionally maybe
[19:04.000 -> 19:08.640] Red Bull's best track or a track suited for Red Bull. So when they were that dominant here, I went,
[19:08.640 -> 19:10.240] oh no, it's going to be worse.
[19:10.240 -> 19:16.080] I mean, you know, we can always have the situation whereby, and it's bound to happen somewhere,
[19:16.640 -> 19:23.920] where at the start, when they're still close enough to sort of, you know, touch the tail of
[19:23.920 -> 19:26.000] the Red Bulls, they'll crash into it.
[19:26.000 -> 19:29.000] And so you might have a situation where the person who starts fourth,
[19:29.000 -> 19:32.000] you know, because Perez is bound to screw up somewhere as well.
[19:32.000 -> 19:34.000] Joe, why?
[19:34.000 -> 19:35.000] Yeah, but he is.
[19:35.000 -> 19:38.000] I'm not pleased with that comment.
[19:38.000 -> 19:42.000] So you may have situations where somebody will come into and, you know,
[19:42.000 -> 19:46.360] you might have a Mercedes or a Ferrari or the Ferrari's hopefully will stop blowing up.
[19:46.960 -> 19:48.440] But, you know, poor old Charles.
[19:48.800 -> 19:49.080] Yeah.
[19:49.080 -> 19:55.360] If I were him, I'd definitely be sort of, I'd be brushing up my CV at the moment.
[19:55.360 -> 19:59.680] Cause it's just a bit boring to have another season where it blows up under you.
[20:00.040 -> 20:00.520] Yeah.
[20:00.920 -> 20:04.040] I mean, it's only one race admittedly, but you know, you could see,
[20:04.040 -> 20:05.260] you could hear it in his voice.
[20:05.680 -> 20:08.120] You could hear it when it's sort of, Oh no, not again.
[20:08.720 -> 20:12.720] You know, I thought we got this fixed and, and it clearly they haven't.
[20:12.720 -> 20:14.960] So, you know, maybe it's a small thing, maybe it's not.
[20:15.000 -> 20:18.800] I hear that there's a massive investigation with, you know, policemen rushing around at
[20:18.800 -> 20:21.780] Ferrari, trying to figure out what went wrong with the engine, you know, policemen in
[20:21.780 -> 20:23.280] Ferrari uniform, obviously not real ones.
[20:24.040 -> 20:25.040] Um, and, uh, you know, policeman in Ferrari uniform, obviously not real one.
[20:25.040 -> 20:32.120] And you know, who knows, we'll see what happens. But right now, it does look like it's going
[20:32.120 -> 20:34.600] to be a quite dominant year for Red Bull.
[20:34.600 -> 20:39.000] And it happens, Paddy in our live chat says, can we have a minute silence at the end of
[20:39.000 -> 20:46.480] the podcast for the 2023 season? Can I remind everyone that people were talking about Ferrari dominance in the early
[20:46.480 -> 20:50.960] part of last season and would it be a boring season? We were having exactly the same conversation.
[20:50.960 -> 20:55.680] Yes, but they did have the pace last year. This year they didn't even have the pace. So
[20:57.360 -> 21:01.760] it's all very well saying yes, well maybe somebody will come good. They didn't have the pace.
[21:01.760 -> 21:04.480] They didn't, you know, have the pace and then blow up, which is what happened before.
[21:07.440 -> 21:10.720] You know, they won the first couple of races and then they started blowing up, but the fact is they don't have the pace. So there's a hell of a lot of
[21:10.720 -> 21:13.920] work to do to try and close a gap when everybody's working all the time.
[21:13.920 -> 21:15.120] All right, should we go to...
[21:15.120 -> 21:15.760] You know what I mean.
[21:15.760 -> 21:20.640] I know what you mean, innit? Yeah, don't bring out the Essex in me. I'm struggling enough to
[21:20.640 -> 21:25.100] stop my natural Essex accent from coming back. I'll have to spend some time
[21:25.100 -> 21:29.700] in the posh bits of Essex like what you go to. Frinton? Yeah? That's the right place?
[21:29.700 -> 21:33.780] I haven't been there for a very long time. I went there as a kid, yeah. It was a bit
[21:33.780 -> 21:37.060] different then. It was quite a long time ago when I was a kid.
[21:37.060 -> 21:40.860] It's a bit cold now. Well, I'll save the beach trips for later, but for now, Anders, who
[21:40.860 -> 21:45.200] I assume is from a very cold country, probably one of the long stringy
[21:45.200 -> 21:50.760] ones that comes from the North Pole. How is Fred doing at Ferrari and how does the team
[21:50.760 -> 21:56.240] feel about him? He said excluding Charles, who I'm assuming will be quite upset at the
[21:56.240 -> 22:08.800] moment. Fred Vasseur settling in well, he seems pretty chill. Friend of yours, Joe? Oh yeah, huge. Not really, no. It's no great secret that I don't rate him
[22:08.800 -> 22:15.120] very highly because he didn't do much at Sauber. So I was utterly amazed, to be honest, that he
[22:15.120 -> 22:21.600] was given the job at Ferrari and didn't really understand it. So yes, he's arrived and he said
[22:21.600 -> 22:28.340] all the right things and made some cuddly remarks and the performance is less than last year.
[22:28.340 -> 22:32.340] So, or by comparison to everybody else.
[22:32.380 -> 22:34.180] So we'll see.
[22:34.180 -> 22:40.220] But, you know, I think what happens in the team at Ferrari is, to be honest,
[22:40.220 -> 22:44.460] neither here nor there, because they're all going to support their new leader up
[22:44.460 -> 22:45.360] to a point. And
[22:45.360 -> 22:49.360] then if they don't like him, they'll stop supporting him. But what's more important
[22:49.360 -> 22:55.040] is the politics at Ferrari. And I think that the politics at Ferrari, let's just
[22:55.920 -> 23:05.200] do a quick rewind and say, why did Mattia Binotto get dumped? Okay. It's very simple.
[23:06.640 -> 23:07.080] It is really very simple.
[23:10.000 -> 23:11.320] Mattia Binotto took that team to a level where they were nearly ready to win world championships.
[23:11.360 -> 23:13.960] Now they had a couple of glitches and it didn't go quite right because the
[23:13.960 -> 23:15.520] engines blew up and blah, blah, blah.
[23:16.240 -> 23:21.560] However, Mattia Binotto survived two years earlier, the worst season
[23:22.200 -> 23:24.240] that Ferrari had had since 1980.
[23:24.320 -> 23:25.440] 2019. Yeah. 2019.
[23:25.440 -> 23:29.360] Yeah, yeah, but whatever that particular period when there was a,
[23:30.240 -> 23:32.480] remember there was a secret deal with the FIA.
[23:32.480 -> 23:33.520] When they used too much.
[23:33.520 -> 23:34.480] Highly dubious.
[23:34.480 -> 23:36.080] When they used too much fuel at once.
[23:36.720 -> 23:40.080] Well, that may be it, where they allegedly did things.
[23:40.080 -> 23:42.080] I think they did it. I think they did it.
[23:42.080 -> 23:46.400] Well, you can say that, but then, you know, wait for the lawyer's letter to thump onto
[23:46.400 -> 23:48.840] your desk.
[23:48.840 -> 23:57.120] The fact is that they had a deal, a secret deal, based on the punishment they were going
[23:57.120 -> 24:01.320] to get for doing naughty things, allegedly naughty things.
[24:01.320 -> 24:06.000] And so he was in charge then and he kept his job. Okay.
[24:06.000 -> 24:09.560] So two years later, three years later, whatever it is, he didn't
[24:09.560 -> 24:12.640] keep his job over minor issues. They threw everything, they
[24:12.640 -> 24:15.440] threw the baby out with the bathwater. Now, what's the
[24:15.440 -> 24:19.760] difference there? What is the difference between Ferrari then
[24:19.760 -> 24:25.340] and Ferrari now? And the answer is that the chairman is the same,
[24:25.820 -> 24:30.780] but the chief executive officer is not. So somebody has come in
[24:30.780 -> 24:34.500] there with a bit of power, Mr. Vigna, the new CEO, who knows
[24:34.500 -> 24:37.940] nothing about motorsport, although perhaps he thinks he
[24:37.940 -> 24:41.220] does, which is always the worst kind of scenario you can have.
[24:42.980 -> 24:47.040] It was previously a man called Mr. Camieri who quit during the
[24:47.040 -> 24:55.120] COVID pandemic and then Mr. Vigna arrived. He's an expert in electro jobby things, got
[24:55.120 -> 24:56.120] nothing to do with cars.
[24:56.120 -> 25:00.480] Well, these are names I have not heard, by the way, so they're not like out there.
[25:00.480 -> 25:05.200] The chairman of Ferrari is a man called John Elkin, who's a member of the Agnelli family,
[25:05.200 -> 25:08.840] who is in charge of lots of car companies and dodgy football teams and all this kind
[25:08.840 -> 25:09.840] of stuff.
[25:09.840 -> 25:10.840] Allegedly?
[25:10.840 -> 25:13.800] No, not allegedly, because they actually got caught.
[25:13.800 -> 25:15.440] Gerventos got busted.
[25:15.440 -> 25:19.920] So he's the chairman of the whole empire.
[25:19.920 -> 25:26.800] He's the chairman of Stellantis, of Ferrari, of Fiat, of all that stuff. Then you have the CEO of Ferrari
[25:26.800 -> 25:33.600] who is called Benedetto Vigna, who comes from Microelectronics Company, which is a strange
[25:33.600 -> 25:39.120] thing to do, but they decided to put a microelectronics company in charge of a car company.
[25:39.120 -> 25:44.080] So the highest person up in Ferrari who knows about motorsport is, I guess, Fred Vasseur then,
[25:44.080 -> 25:44.640] at the moment?
[25:45.200 -> 25:48.640] Well, I think possibly both the other two think they do.
[25:48.640 -> 25:49.640] Oh.
[25:49.640 -> 25:51.760] Which is always about, as I said, a bad combination.
[25:51.760 -> 25:57.080] Yes, so the person who would know most about Formula One, in theory, apart from one or
[25:57.080 -> 26:10.240] two of the Ferrari boys who've been there for 25 years probably, would be Fred Vasseur. And so, but the people firing the team principal, people have the power over him, have less
[26:10.240 -> 26:12.160] knowledge than the man himself, probably.
[26:12.160 -> 26:13.160] Okay.
[26:13.160 -> 26:17.760] So it's, there's clearly something going on in terms of politics, because you just wouldn't
[26:17.760 -> 26:18.760] hire Mattia.
[26:18.760 -> 26:23.080] Okay, he wasn't great, but he wasn't worthy of being dumped if you compare it to previous
[26:23.080 -> 26:24.080] years.
[26:24.080 -> 26:27.200] And it does make a big difference because, you know, he was the guy
[26:27.200 -> 26:28.720] holding that whole team together.
[26:28.720 -> 26:34.760] And now, unless Fred Vassar can get everybody singing from the same song
[26:34.760 -> 26:39.420] sheet and marching with the red flags and all the rest of it, they're going
[26:39.420 -> 26:44.060] to have trouble with discordant voices and other such things.
[26:45.120 -> 26:48.560] And, you know, that's when Ferrari gets to its absolute worst,
[26:48.560 -> 26:50.760] when the politics takes over and there's backbiting.
[26:50.760 -> 26:51.200] You'll see it.
[26:51.200 -> 26:51.960] We'll see it soon.
[26:51.960 -> 26:56.760] If it's going to go wrong, we'll start seeing things in the, in the, in the Italian media.
[26:56.880 -> 27:00.600] If doesn't really seem to come into it with Ferrari though, in these days, does it?
[27:00.600 -> 27:02.440] So when it goes wrong, we'll see.
[27:03.240 -> 27:08.560] No, it doesn't have to go wrong because Jean-Todd managed to do it. I'm sorry to say that I
[27:08.560 -> 27:13.000] don't think that Jean-Todd and Fred Vasseur have a great deal in common.
[27:13.000 -> 27:19.480] So as a long-time Ferrari fan, as Missed Apex listeners will know, the thing that I think
[27:19.480 -> 27:30.160] has got the grip to the Tifosi at the moment is they're holding the breath moment and then the inevitable release of ah there it is there's our Ferrari so Q1 all the
[27:30.160 -> 27:34.360] hope in the world first competitive session and then the bits of his his
[27:34.360 -> 27:38.400] wheel brows start flying off Leclerc's car and you think oh wow you know this
[27:38.400 -> 27:43.920] is this is it's happened immediately and it just seems to be with Ferrari a lot
[27:43.920 -> 27:45.680] of the the reliability stuff a lot of the with Ferrari a lot of the reliability stuff, a
[27:45.680 -> 27:49.860] lot of the basic stuff, a lot of the drills just seem to fall apart when they
[27:49.860 -> 27:55.800] make contact with the enemy and that's got to be something systemic within them.
[27:55.800 -> 28:01.480] I would say cultural but yeah you're right there is some kind of a
[28:01.480 -> 28:05.160] cultural problem that needs to be fixed there.
[28:05.160 -> 28:09.720] Now can we identify it and can we fix it is another matter.
[28:09.720 -> 28:12.400] But the trouble is if you have people who don't know what they're doing, they'll listen
[28:12.400 -> 28:16.640] to the last voice they heard, who sounds credible.
[28:16.640 -> 28:20.400] And you know, there's a lot of people in this world of Formula One who sound credible but
[28:20.400 -> 28:31.880] are not, which is why team principals generally should be aerodynamicists, because they can't get snowed is a good word by blah, blah, blah.
[28:31.880 -> 28:33.600] They just go, actually, no, that doesn't work.
[28:35.880 -> 28:38.560] So you've got to have somebody who understands engineering to tell them,
[28:38.560 -> 28:40.480] you've got to have somebody who's inspirational leader.
[28:40.480 -> 28:41.960] You have somebody who works hard.
[28:42.280 -> 28:45.880] You've got to have somebody who's good in front of sponsors. You've got to have somebody who's good in front of sponsors, you got to have
[28:45.880 -> 28:49.640] somebody who's good on TV. There's lots of questions that
[28:49.640 -> 28:52.360] you need to have, you know, lots of abilities you need to have as
[28:52.360 -> 28:57.840] a team principal. And if you don't have all of them, but the
[28:57.840 -> 29:00.560] most important one is leadership, you have to be, you
[29:00.560 -> 29:03.600] have to be somebody who the workforce will jump off a cliff
[29:03.600 -> 29:05.160] for.
[29:05.160 -> 29:09.280] And in successful cases, it's always that, that you will always find somebody in the
[29:09.280 -> 29:11.960] middle of it all is a great leader.
[29:11.960 -> 29:17.760] Why don't Ferrari simply copy the Red Bull car like Aston Martin definitely have, according
[29:17.760 -> 29:19.320] to Sergio Perez?
[29:19.320 -> 29:20.560] Who knows?
[29:20.560 -> 29:21.760] Who knows?
[29:21.760 -> 29:28.600] I mean, Formula One is, has always been about looking at the other, in fact, not even Formula
[29:28.600 -> 29:30.720] One, it goes back to a hundred years ago.
[29:30.720 -> 29:32.520] Oh, a hundred years ago, okay.
[29:32.520 -> 29:38.240] No, no, a hundred years ago, Hispano Suiza built a fantastic voiturette and Peugeot
[29:38.240 -> 29:39.240] nicked the design.
[29:39.240 -> 29:40.240] You know, it's not new.
[29:40.240 -> 29:41.240] I remember.
[29:41.240 -> 29:42.240] All the way through.
[29:42.240 -> 29:44.800] Twitter went crazy.
[29:44.800 -> 29:48.600] You probably don't, but all the way through the history of the sport, you will find this
[29:48.600 -> 29:53.600] going on where people have a good idea and another lot go, oh, we'll take that idea,
[29:53.600 -> 29:56.640] use that, develop it, and then somebody will nick it off them.
[29:56.640 -> 29:58.440] And that's just the way it goes.
[29:58.440 -> 30:04.520] Now, nowadays, the means of nicking and the means of catching the nicking have developed.
[30:04.520 -> 30:07.080] So you can't just nick straight away like the old days.
[30:07.080 -> 30:10.600] But nowadays you have to be clever.
[30:10.600 -> 30:15.600] And, you know, Racing Point, Aston Martin,
[30:16.320 -> 30:17.960] were doing that quite a lot of late,
[30:17.960 -> 30:19.960] but they were clever enough not to.
[30:19.960 -> 30:21.640] But this one is actually not.
[30:21.640 -> 30:22.480] No?
[30:22.480 -> 30:23.680] No, I don't think it is.
[30:23.680 -> 30:25.600] I think this one is, look, you have people who I don't think it is. I think this one is...
[30:25.600 -> 30:28.160] Look, you have people who've been hired from different places,
[30:28.160 -> 30:29.880] so their input arrives.
[30:29.880 -> 30:32.400] You have Dan Fallows, who came from Red Bull.
[30:32.400 -> 30:34.560] You have Eric Blandin, who came from Red Bull.
[30:34.560 -> 30:37.880] You have Luca Fabato, who came from...
[30:37.880 -> 30:40.480] What was the last one before?
[30:40.480 -> 30:44.240] Well, he was at Toro Rosso, and then...
[30:44.240 -> 30:45.320] So Red Bull. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But Luca was at Toro Rosso and then... So Red Bull.
[30:45.320 -> 30:47.600] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[30:47.600 -> 30:48.760] but Luca was other places.
[30:48.760 -> 30:50.640] He's mainly a McLaren man.
[30:50.640 -> 30:56.080] But the fact is that they've got some very, very good people who work together clearly.
[30:56.080 -> 31:01.720] They have leadership, they have money, they have a facility that's nearly finished, but
[31:01.720 -> 31:04.040] they've produced a terrific car.
[31:04.040 -> 31:07.760] So I don't think you can just say, well, it's a copy of this or a copy of that.
[31:08.160 -> 31:14.960] But at the same time, it's terrific enough to be half a minute behind Red Bull at the finish.
[31:16.400 -> 31:18.880] And that actually is the key point.
[31:18.880 -> 31:24.400] The point is, yeah, they have a decent car, but it's just decent because everybody else did a
[31:24.400 -> 31:27.160] worse job than they did, if you see what I mean.
[31:27.160 -> 31:32.040] I don't mean that in any sort of denigration of what they've done.
[31:32.040 -> 31:36.880] It's fantastic what they've done, but everybody else has done a bad job too.
[31:36.880 -> 31:42.240] So I was surprised by Alpine being quite as poor as they were.
[31:42.240 -> 31:43.240] I was surprised by...
[31:43.240 -> 31:44.240] Well, McLaren.
[31:44.240 -> 31:46.760] I wasn't surprised at McLaren, to be was surprised by, I wasn't surprised. I wasn't surprised at McLaren to be honest.
[31:47.600 -> 31:48.680] No, I don't think so.
[31:48.840 -> 31:49.340] Okay.
[31:49.440 -> 31:54.760] I was more surprised that Alfa Romeo were just nowhere and they
[31:54.760 -> 31:56.680] had a good car last year.
[31:57.520 -> 31:59.200] Didn't use it very well, but they had a good car.
[31:59.520 -> 32:07.600] And I'm ultimately surprised by Mercedes, of course, because you would think that having
[32:07.600 -> 32:10.200] messed it up last year, they would have got it right this year.
[32:10.200 -> 32:11.200] But they haven't.
[32:11.200 -> 32:15.760] I was trying to make that point across various outlets after the race, and it seems mean
[32:15.760 -> 32:18.680] spirited to kind of take away Alonso's podium.
[32:18.680 -> 32:20.520] So I kind of was trying to do it less.
[32:20.520 -> 32:21.520] But yeah, you're right.
[32:21.520 -> 32:28.400] McLaren, Alpine, Alfa Romeo and Mercedes all seem to have underperformed
[32:28.400 -> 32:33.360] and that might kind of correct itself over the course of the season. But I think the key point
[32:33.360 -> 32:40.560] is that people tend to judge the performance of cars by what you see in qualifying and what you
[32:40.560 -> 32:46.000] see in qualifying is Max was on pole by three tenths or maybe less.
[32:46.000 -> 32:50.740] I can't remember exactly, but you know, there was a gap, but it didn't look disastrous.
[32:50.740 -> 32:53.120] And in the midfield, it was really close and tight and great.
[32:53.120 -> 32:56.120] But the trouble is, it's not that that's important.
[32:56.120 -> 33:00.520] You've got to look at the race pace and the Red Bull was just gone in race pace.
[33:00.520 -> 33:06.560] It just went up the road and, you know, they barely got a sniff of the exhaust.
[33:11.440 -> 33:18.000] I've said for a long time qualifying has never been less important in Formula One. You only have to look at Bottas being routinely right up alongside Lewis Hamilton and then in qualifying
[33:18.000 -> 33:22.320] and then in the race would just not be able to match his race pace. Look at the Haas. I mean,
[33:22.320 -> 33:27.400] the Haas was a decent qualifying car and they ended up way back because for whatever
[33:27.400 -> 33:31.500] reason and I'm not sure I understand what that reason is, but the Haas always seems
[33:31.500 -> 33:32.500] to race badly.
[33:32.500 -> 33:36.000] I don't want to cast a spurs.
[33:36.000 -> 33:42.080] Look at what happened, you know, you had one of them in the Q3 and where were they at the
[33:42.080 -> 33:43.080] end?
[33:43.080 -> 33:51.600] I really like Kevin Magnussen, but he seems to just, whenever they are up there, he seems to just lose a front wing end plate, get in adventures.
[33:51.600 -> 33:54.240] Yeah, but he didn't this time, the car was just slow.
[33:54.240 -> 33:55.840] No, I was thinking generally, but yeah.
[33:55.840 -> 34:07.000] No, I think, I mean, he had a string of incidents last year, but that happens sometimes with drivers who, they changed the rules about the width of the cars too last year, remember?
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[35:17.280 -> 35:22.440] I want to get back to my my copying the car questions before they slip out of my head
[35:22.440 -> 35:25.060] so actually I want to ask about Dan Fellows
[35:25.060 -> 35:27.220] as well. So just for a bit of context...
[35:27.220 -> 35:28.220] Fellows.
[35:28.220 -> 35:33.020] Fellows. There we go. A nice Fellow is that Fellows. But Aston Martin came out with what
[35:33.020 -> 35:40.660] looked like a clone of the 2019 Mercedes in 2020. So they clearly don't mind, and I think
[35:40.660 -> 35:44.220] it's a legitimate tactic, looking around the paddock and saying what works. And didn't
[35:44.220 -> 35:47.840] they get found to have copied a rear brake assembly?
[35:47.840 -> 35:49.760] But there's a fundamental difference here.
[35:51.040 -> 35:56.960] Well, back then, the technical team was being led by Andrew Green, who was operating under a budget,
[35:59.120 -> 36:07.280] he was given, these are the numbers you've got, do something with it. And he had a team owner, Lawrence Stroll, who was very ambitious.
[36:07.280 -> 36:11.920] And I think what Andrew did was he say, well, what's the fastest way to get to where we have to go?
[36:11.920 -> 36:18.320] And that is reverse engineer to the level you can a very fast car, which is what they did.
[36:18.320 -> 36:22.400] Now, most engineers would rather develop their own concept,
[36:22.400 -> 36:29.480] because when you develop your own concept, if you do get ahead, then nobody can catch you. But if you're just copying somebody else,
[36:30.520 -> 36:40.240] or copying the concept, you're not actually making much progress. But that's
[36:40.260 -> 36:44.480] been changed because Fallows arrived and it was a new generation. Andrew Green has
[36:44.480 -> 36:48.840] gone off to be much more in charge of advanced projects or future,
[36:48.840 -> 36:49.840] whatever.
[36:49.840 -> 36:57.360] They've sort of moved the desk sideways and they've got different ambitions now.
[36:57.360 -> 37:01.760] So I don't think you can sort of generalize on that point.
[37:01.760 -> 37:02.760] Okay.
[37:02.760 -> 37:06.500] So where did Dan Fallows sit in the Red Bull
[37:06.500 -> 37:10.920] hierarchy? Was he a chef or was he passing the butter?
[37:10.920 -> 37:14.540] This is what I mean, he was a very important guy
[37:14.540 -> 37:18.840] which is why there was one point at which some years ago he tried to
[37:18.840 -> 37:26.320] go off to McLaren and they fought in a court to stop him going because they knew of his value.
[37:26.320 -> 37:29.040] So clearly he's a very valuable person.
[37:29.120 -> 37:33.360] And clearly Lawrence Stroll figured out how to get him out of there, which presumably
[37:33.520 -> 37:35.120] involves a very large sum of money.
[37:35.720 -> 37:39.960] And, you know, so he's out there and he's gone.
[37:39.960 -> 37:42.060] So does that impact on the others?
[37:42.060 -> 37:43.880] No, because they have strength in depth.
[37:43.960 -> 37:45.560] You know, this is the thing about the big teams.
[37:46.180 -> 37:48.540] They can take the hit and they have new people.
[37:48.860 -> 37:53.760] Now there's a point at which you can't take all the hits eventually, but it's
[37:53.760 -> 37:57.920] one of the, one of the sort of rhythms of Formula One is you have a very successful
[37:57.920 -> 38:01.360] team, everyone comes in and knicks who they think the best people are.
[38:02.000 -> 38:03.040] And off you go.
[38:03.080 -> 38:06.800] I mean, you might see that elsewhere this year. You have, for example, as
[38:06.800 -> 38:10.800] I said, Alfa Romeo had a very good car last year. Well, if I
[38:10.800 -> 38:13.100] were running a team that's not doing awfully well, I'd be going
[38:13.100 -> 38:16.160] looking for the aerodynamicist at Alfa Romeo and trying to lure
[38:16.160 -> 38:16.800] him away.
[38:17.560 -> 38:21.000] Okay, so look, Red Bull are making a big fuss about it. And
[38:21.000 -> 38:23.640] their helmet marker saying, oh, there's nothing wrong with their
[38:23.640 -> 38:30.200] memories. Perez making that comment in the press conference. Is it unfounded, firstly, but the main reason
[38:30.200 -> 38:34.680] I'm asking the question is, because if it was just someone who had come over with a
[38:34.680 -> 38:36.640] floppy disk or a brain full of information, I know you can't.
[38:36.640 -> 38:37.920] You can't do that anymore.
[38:37.920 -> 38:42.840] So in this hypothetical, he's come there with a, he looked at all the plans, he memorized
[38:42.840 -> 38:47.600] them and gave them that information, obviously then he's not useful going forward.
[38:47.600 -> 38:52.880] So are we optimistic that going forward, they can actually develop this concept as well
[38:52.880 -> 38:55.080] as having built it first?
[38:55.080 -> 39:01.160] Well, what happens with aerodynamicists is you don't have to be, you don't have to copy
[39:01.160 -> 39:04.600] everything, but you have to understand the concept and you have to understand how it
[39:04.600 -> 39:09.160] works. And if you understand how it works, you actually don't need to take the data because you know
[39:09.160 -> 39:10.680] how to fix it.
[39:10.680 -> 39:16.960] So you go to another car, you have another chassis sizing, slightly different, blah,
[39:16.960 -> 39:17.960] blah, whatever.
[39:17.960 -> 39:19.500] But you know how it works.
[39:19.500 -> 39:23.880] So it's the concept, it's grasping the concept of how to make a car go quickly.
[39:23.880 -> 39:25.520] And that changes from year to year.
[39:25.520 -> 39:32.520] And nowadays it's so intricate because of all the way the aero works nowadays.
[39:32.520 -> 39:35.520] You can't just slap a great big wing on the back and it makes a difference.
[39:35.520 -> 39:37.180] It's all in subtleties.
[39:37.180 -> 39:42.240] It's all in vortices that are interacting with other vortices, which are bouncing off
[39:42.240 -> 39:46.640] vortices, which are sucking up to surfaces because that's what vortices do when they go near a surface.
[39:46.640 -> 39:53.800] It's this sort of stuff that we can't conceivably understand and anybody who pretends they do should be an aerodynamicist.
[39:54.320 -> 39:57.360] And get paid a hell of a lot more money than the rest of us do.
[39:57.360 -> 40:01.360] Okay, well, I think you're a bit more optimistic than I am then. So as a staunch
[40:02.000 -> 40:05.440] long-standing Aston Martin fan, the worry would be that this is a one-off and
[40:05.440 -> 40:09.040] they're front-loaded towards the end of the season. But you're painting a more optimistic
[40:09.040 -> 40:15.680] picture that this can be a sustained charge up the field. Yes, but it won't happen. I'm not
[40:15.680 -> 40:27.280] necessarily certain we'll see a sustained charge this year. They're using the Mercedes wind tunnel at the moment to help.
[40:28.340 -> 40:29.780] They don't have their own wind tunnel.
[40:30.100 -> 40:35.920] They will have their own wind tunnel in, I think it's going to be 25
[40:35.920 -> 40:38.340] before it comes in, is of any use.
[40:38.340 -> 40:41.660] I think, I can't remember the details of exactly when, but it's going to
[40:41.660 -> 40:42.940] take a long time to calibrate it.
[40:42.940 -> 40:45.800] Even if they finish building it, you've got to put all the stuff in
[40:45.800 -> 40:49.080] calibrate it make sure it all works properly so they're gonna have a new
[40:49.080 -> 40:55.080] tunnel of their own although you know if you've got one that's working at
[40:55.080 -> 41:00.760] Mercedes why why actually would you need to do that? Because if I was James
[41:00.760 -> 41:04.760] Allison or Mike Elliott I would be giving them like a gift of a teddy bear
[41:04.760 -> 41:08.000] but it's one of those nanny teddy bears that's got a camera in it.
[41:08.000 -> 41:12.120] So when they're using the wind tunnel, they'll be able to see all the secret information
[41:12.120 -> 41:13.120] and copy them.
[41:13.120 -> 41:14.120] Okay.
[41:14.120 -> 41:18.600] Well, I should watch out for any gifts that I'm given from James Allison and Mike Elliott
[41:18.600 -> 41:22.400] then, or even the aerodynamicists who probably know better.
[41:22.400 -> 41:24.240] That's a nice little segue to Mercedes there, you see.
[41:24.240 -> 41:26.800] I'm trying to get to the heart of who's in charge.
[41:26.800 -> 41:28.480] Oh, I thought you were segueing to teddy bears.
[41:28.480 -> 41:29.320] Okay, on we go.
[41:29.320 -> 41:32.960] So it's great really, because doing this for years,
[41:32.960 -> 41:35.880] the engineers now have much more of a high profile
[41:35.880 -> 41:38.240] and we know about the engineers much more than we used to,
[41:38.240 -> 41:40.080] which is really correct,
[41:40.080 -> 41:42.360] because it is such an engineering sport.
[41:42.360 -> 41:44.280] We do and we don't, hang on.
[41:44.280 -> 41:45.960] We know about some engineers. More so, more we don't hang on. We know about some engineers.
[41:45.960 -> 41:46.720] So more so.
[41:46.920 -> 41:51.120] I know, but we know about some engineers whose names are thrust out there, but we
[41:51.120 -> 41:56.120] don't know because there are so many of them now that who is the one that makes
[41:56.120 -> 41:56.760] the difference?
[41:56.760 -> 42:02.600] The skill is to identify the geniuses among the hundreds of aerodynamicists
[42:02.600 -> 42:06.560] there are now in Formula One and work out which is the one who's going to make a big difference.
[42:07.000 -> 42:10.040] So you're saying we only know the Steve Jobs characters.
[42:10.040 -> 42:12.120] We don't know the engineers in the background.
[42:12.120 -> 42:12.280] Yeah.
[42:12.280 -> 42:14.920] We know the captain, but we don't know the blokes in the engine room.
[42:14.920 -> 42:18.080] Well, as far as captains go, they're captaining their engineering team.
[42:18.240 -> 42:21.400] The two names we've been hearing from Mercedes are Mike Elliott
[42:21.400 -> 42:23.400] and James Allison at the moment.
[42:23.680 -> 42:26.040] And are they the two guys driving the design forward?
[42:26.240 -> 42:28.240] No, because James is in semi-retirement.
[42:28.400 -> 42:28.640] Oh.
[42:28.640 -> 42:30.840] Um, and so he, no, it's not him.
[42:30.840 -> 42:34.280] There's again, there's a whole bunch of other people and we don't know them all.
[42:34.880 -> 42:38.640] There are chief designers, there are chief aerodynamicists,
[42:38.640 -> 42:39.760] there's head of aerodynamics.
[42:39.760 -> 42:41.280] There's, I mean, it's just unbelievable.
[42:41.280 -> 42:42.640] Principal aerodynamicists.
[42:43.280 -> 42:45.600] There are, uh, chief designers of different areas in the car. I mean, these's just unbelievable. Principal aerodynamicists. There are chief designers
[42:45.600 -> 42:49.520] of different areas in the car. I mean, these things are intricate organizations. How do
[42:49.520 -> 42:54.240] you think we get to a thousand people running a Formula, being involved in Formula 1 team?
[42:54.240 -> 42:59.360] There's lots of people having input. And so to say that this one bloke's going to make a difference,
[43:00.560 -> 43:04.000] he might do, but you've got to identify the right bloke first.
[43:04.000 -> 43:08.000] It's just not very romantic, is it? Everyone likes the idea of Adrian Newey.
[43:08.000 -> 43:16.000] Adrian Newey with his pencil and his easel with his sketch pad on a hill somewhere, drafting out aerodynamic concepts.
[43:16.000 -> 43:23.000] Yeah, but there is a case where he comes up with stuff that he thinks might work, and it challenges his aerodynamicist.
[43:23.000 -> 43:26.980] They may say that's never going to work, but they try it and they find out, okay, yeah.
[43:27.240 -> 43:32.000] So Adrian is a bit different in as much as he's very much old school, but he's also different because
[43:33.000 -> 43:38.300] he learned how to design things in a time when he was also a practical race engineer.
[43:38.300 -> 43:44.800] He wasn't just a pure aerodynamicist. He had the full picture. So he knew about the practicalities of
[43:46.040 -> 43:50.400] mechanical engineering as well as aerodynamics, like many of them did in that era, but there aren't
[43:50.400 -> 43:53.040] many of them left nowadays, they're all specialists.
[43:53.040 -> 43:58.560] So do you think I'm right in my, I've had a theory that the engineers at Mercedes have
[43:58.560 -> 44:03.600] been saying, Toto, this is the right concept, give us a chance, and he's been going, no,
[44:03.600 -> 44:06.680] and then go on, give us a chance, please, just give us till Bahrain.
[44:06.680 -> 44:07.760] And he's gone, oh, fine.
[44:07.760 -> 44:10.600] And then now he's gone, I told you so,
[44:10.600 -> 44:12.560] now let's go back to the drawing board.
[44:12.560 -> 44:14.520] Who's gonna win that argument?
[44:14.520 -> 44:16.720] Well, Toto's gonna win that argument every time, isn't he?
[44:16.720 -> 44:17.560] Because he's the boss.
[44:17.560 -> 44:18.400] He's massive.
[44:19.960 -> 44:22.520] I don't think you can necessarily say
[44:22.520 -> 44:24.840] that is definitely what's going on,
[44:24.840 -> 44:31.840] but I think we will see a change at Mercedes because it was such a
[44:33.920 -> 44:38.960] drubbing that they weren't expecting that I think there is a sort of, oh God, we've
[44:38.960 -> 44:42.880] got to do something else because I think they're looking at it and they're probably
[44:42.880 -> 44:46.000] saying, well, we can't close a gap like that in the course of a season.
[44:46.000 -> 44:52.000] Therefore, we've got to do something else. Now, we've got to do something else within the bounds of the budget cap.
[44:52.000 -> 44:58.000] Why should they? No, no, no, let's not start that again. Let's not start that again. No, I'm triggered.
[44:58.000 -> 45:04.000] You can read my Twitter feed, at Spanners Ready, to know my feelings on the subject, but I'm being somewhat polite to the guest.
[45:04.000 -> 45:06.400] I've put up a token fight, haven't I, Joe?
[45:06.400 -> 45:09.440] And then I've backed off and I've let it go.
[45:09.440 -> 45:10.440] Whatever.
[45:10.440 -> 45:13.240] They know how I feel about it.
[45:13.240 -> 45:17.200] I've got a question from the listener, from the listener, from one listener.
[45:17.200 -> 45:19.120] The single listener we have.
[45:19.120 -> 45:26.000] From Mark, who says, Zach Brown, does he want a winning team or a profitable team?
[45:26.000 -> 45:27.000] That's a good question.
[45:27.000 -> 45:29.000] Well, he hasn't got either at the moment.
[45:29.000 -> 45:31.000] He's got 85 rotating sponsors.
[45:31.000 -> 45:35.000] Yeah, he's got 85 rotating sponsors each paying £12.
[45:35.000 -> 45:36.000] Oh no.
[45:36.000 -> 45:47.080] If you have as many sponsors as he has, and you're presumably generating all that money. It just has to be, it has to
[45:47.080 -> 45:50.760] be either that he's extremely good at going blah blah blah to sponsors, which
[45:50.760 -> 45:55.960] he is good at, but are they really all paying the vast sums of money that some
[45:55.960 -> 45:59.580] others are paying? You know, if you compare to a sponsor on the Williams
[45:59.580 -> 46:04.000] with the amount of space they get, with a sponsor on the McLaren, are they
[46:04.000 -> 46:05.820] paying the same amount of money for that space?
[46:05.980 -> 46:10.980] I don't know, but I would suggest that probably they're paying more.
[46:11.540 -> 46:14.620] The thing is that as a marketing exercise, McLaren looks great.
[46:14.660 -> 46:16.580] You know, it's got fantastic, it's got all these sponsors.
[46:17.140 -> 46:17.760] It's very cool.
[46:17.760 -> 46:23.380] It's got all these fancy names, but there's no performance there or very
[46:23.380 -> 46:25.200] little performance there that we've seen so far.
[46:26.560 -> 46:31.280] And unfortunately you need to have more than blah, blah, blah, and hot air. You need to deliver the
[46:31.280 -> 46:38.160] goods technically speaking. And the other point of weakness, it's not necessarily weakness, but it
[46:38.160 -> 46:45.040] doesn't help the instability issue is, you know, the McLaren car company is not doing well.
[46:49.940 -> 46:56.560] So people, well, it hasn't been doing well for a long time, but you know, it needs, it needs to be, they keep having to go out and sort of refinance it every so
[46:56.560 -> 46:58.360] often because it's just burning up money.
[46:58.360 -> 47:02.640] So the racing team's not suffering from that as far as I can tell at the moment,
[47:02.680 -> 47:03.680] but it doesn't help.
[47:03.980 -> 47:08.580] The racing team seems to be washing its face, as they say.
[47:09.080 -> 47:13.920] But, you know, if we had performance like we saw last weekend all year long,
[47:13.920 -> 47:18.660] they'll be dropping a massive amount of revenue because every place you
[47:18.660 -> 47:20.880] drop down is like 15 million you lose.
[47:20.880 -> 47:24.740] So it's, you've got to be delivering the goods.
[47:25.360 -> 47:29.360] And they're not at the moment, even with two very good drivers. I think we all agree that
[47:29.360 -> 47:34.320] Lando Norris and Oscar Piastri are both very good drivers. So ultimately it comes down to the fact
[47:34.320 -> 47:36.720] the car must be a bit of a piggy.
[47:36.720 -> 47:39.680] Well, hopefully we get to see if Piastri's a good race driver,
[47:39.680 -> 47:41.040] because we didn't get much of a look at it.
[47:41.680 -> 47:43.520] Piastri is a good race driver, believe me.
[47:41.800 -> 47:45.480] We didn't get much of a look at it. A Piazza is a good roast, try and believe me.
[47:45.480 -> 47:51.040] Zac Brown, top of my list of team principals, I would accept an invite to their mansion
[47:51.040 -> 47:52.640] for a weekend of barbecuing.
[47:52.640 -> 47:55.640] And I just feel like Zac Brown, it'd be a good time.
[47:55.640 -> 47:56.960] There would be a potank in the garden.
[47:56.960 -> 47:58.480] There'd be a good barbecue.
[47:58.480 -> 48:01.240] It seems like a very personable chap.
[48:01.240 -> 48:02.240] Just take a look at him.
[48:02.240 -> 48:04.200] He looks like he likes a big barbecue, doesn't he?
[48:04.200 -> 48:10.000] Oh Joe, we're hardly in a solid house ourselves throwing stones are we?
[48:10.000 -> 48:15.000] Well that's true but you were just merely pointing out that he probably does a good barbecue, yes he probably does.
[48:15.000 -> 48:20.000] But you know, I was merely pointing out a clue, that's all.
[48:20.000 -> 48:22.000] Well we'd fit in nicely possibly.
[48:22.000 -> 48:26.000] You wouldn't want to go to Gunters for a barbecue barbecue, would you? You'd be skinny a little bit.
[48:26.000 -> 48:28.000] Good point.
[48:28.000 -> 48:30.000] Or France Tost. Why would you go to France Tost for a barbecue?
[48:30.000 -> 48:32.000] This is a silly argument, but go on.
[48:32.000 -> 48:34.000] Well, we'll go to some very sensible questions then.
[48:34.000 -> 48:39.000] We've got a sensible question from Mike Stoner in our patron group.
[48:39.000 -> 48:41.000] Along the lines of what we were talking about,
[48:41.000 -> 48:49.560] one race in, what does Joe think of the rookies? And I'm going to include Nick DeVries in that because not doing so
[48:49.560 -> 48:57.760] just seems churlish. Okay, well I think all the rookies are good drivers, so I
[48:57.760 -> 49:03.720] think they're all quality drivers and therefore I don't have to sort of write
[49:03.720 -> 49:05.120] any of them off as pay drivers.
[49:05.120 -> 49:10.920] And I thought that Logan Sargent did a great job on his first weekend.
[49:10.920 -> 49:16.520] My goodness, that lap one! If you see the lap one from his onboard, was not scared of that grid at all.
[49:16.520 -> 49:20.640] No, no, but he's a, you know, the guy was a world karting champion many years ago.
[49:20.640 -> 49:24.360] He knows what he's doing. He's a proper, proper talented bloke.
[49:24.360 -> 49:27.920] So anybody, you know, a lot of Americans think there's only
[49:27.920 -> 49:30.640] Colton Hurter in the world and it's not fair and blah, blah, blah.
[49:31.080 -> 49:34.880] But actually if you followed the European side where you have to
[49:34.880 -> 49:38.280] go to get your super license, Logan's side has been coming for a
[49:38.280 -> 49:40.480] while and doing a good job.
[49:41.160 -> 49:45.620] In terms of the others, yeah, Nick DeVries is effectively a new boy.
[49:45.620 -> 49:48.820] But again, Nick was one of the greatest kart racers there's ever been.
[49:49.360 -> 49:51.640] And it's taken him a hell of a long time to get to Formula One.
[49:52.300 -> 49:52.900] Is that right?
[49:53.460 -> 49:53.800] Oh yeah.
[49:53.800 -> 49:58.000] He won two World Championships, one after another in Formula.
[49:58.000 -> 50:01.900] The trouble with karting is they change the formula so often, but basically
[50:01.900 -> 50:04.880] the top karting class, he won twice and one was considerably
[50:04.880 -> 50:06.600] younger than everybody else.
[50:06.600 -> 50:08.880] So he's a fantastic talent.
[50:08.880 -> 50:14.120] We've always known that, but he got caught, he got lost in Formula Renault for about four
[50:14.120 -> 50:19.720] years and so his career sort of went, he was originally a McLaren young driver and after
[50:19.720 -> 50:23.920] a while they sort of said, well, thanks a lot Nick, but we're not seeing it.
[50:23.920 -> 50:27.080] And then other people went, well, actually we'll have him because he's quite talented.
[50:27.560 -> 50:27.840] Hmm.
[50:28.040 -> 50:31.440] And so I was quite sceptical when you're going back to Sargent quickly, I was quite
[50:31.440 -> 50:34.640] sceptical of that because I always am when you have someone with, with that much kind
[50:34.640 -> 50:35.880] of family money behind them.
[50:35.880 -> 50:40.520] But if he races like that week in, week out, then that kind of, that justifies
[50:40.520 -> 50:41.360] William's decision.
[50:41.360 -> 50:42.840] Hang on, hang on.
[50:42.840 -> 50:43.120] What?
[50:43.120 -> 50:48.240] Couple of years ago, Logan Sargent struggled. He had to go and do another
[50:48.240 -> 50:51.840] year of Formula 3 because he didn't have family money behind him.
[50:51.840 -> 50:54.160] So he had to apologize at Thanksgiving?
[50:54.160 -> 50:59.640] No, no, he didn't have... there was no money for him to... he should have been... he should
[50:59.640 -> 51:05.840] have been... not promoted, he should have climbed the ladder a year earlier than he did.
[51:05.840 -> 51:09.840] If he had all his family money, that wouldn't have been a problem, but it was.
[51:09.840 -> 51:14.400] So it's all very well saying, yes, he's got some rich parents, but it doesn't really give him anything.
[51:14.960 -> 51:17.920] Oh, he's not rich, his parents are rich. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[51:17.920 -> 51:22.400] Yeah, yeah. But, you know, there's lots of people on the grid whose parents are rich.
[51:23.280 -> 51:30.000] But if you say, well, George Russell's got a rich dad or Lando Norris has got a rich dad, no one would dare to suggest that they were there
[51:30.000 -> 51:33.840] for any reason other than the fact they're brilliant. But that is also, it's true in both
[51:33.840 -> 51:38.400] cases, they both have very wealthy fathers. Okay, actually, I do have a follow-up buy-in
[51:38.400 -> 51:45.120] driver question from Rob, but first of all, Mark's watching live and he points out that you never actually answered
[51:45.120 -> 51:46.580] his Zac Brown question.
[51:46.580 -> 51:50.160] The question was, Joe, does he want a winning team
[51:50.160 -> 51:51.520] or a profitable team?
[51:51.520 -> 51:52.360] What's his motivation?
[51:52.360 -> 51:53.640] Of course he wants a winning team.
[51:53.640 -> 51:54.860] They all want winning teams.
[51:54.860 -> 51:56.760] Whether he's capable of producing one is another story.
[51:56.760 -> 52:00.160] What if he had to pick money or third in the championship?
[52:00.160 -> 52:02.000] I think he would always say he wants
[52:02.000 -> 52:04.840] to have a competitive team, because the other element
[52:04.840 -> 52:11.760] of it, the profit, comes later from the success. The profit, if you win, you get money. It's very
[52:11.760 -> 52:17.600] simple. Now, there are team principals out there who might be looking at things and saying, well,
[52:17.600 -> 52:22.160] I, you know, if I make it near enough, I can make lots of money and leave with a golden parachute,
[52:22.720 -> 52:28.240] whatever. But the fact is that they all deep down want to win and the ones who
[52:28.240 -> 52:30.000] don't, won't last very long anyway.
[52:30.160 -> 52:32.980] And I know why Mark is asking this, because I know he's a long
[52:32.980 -> 52:36.600] suffering McLaren fan and there's a lot of them out there.
[52:37.280 -> 52:40.000] As of which I am one of them, by the way, I'm a McLaren fan too.
[52:40.560 -> 52:41.360] Well, fantastic.
[52:41.360 -> 52:46.400] And as a McLaren fan, you look at that car and you go, it's
[52:46.400 -> 52:52.560] covered in sponsors. They've got leading edge technology on the rotating e-ink sponsorship.
[52:52.560 -> 52:57.760] One car chugs to the halt, the other one has 10 pit stops. You can forgive people for thinking
[52:58.400 -> 53:04.160] that the sponsorship might be slightly ahead in the priorities than the car. Unfair, I'm sure,
[53:04.160 -> 53:06.440] but I think that's kind of the perception that's starting
[53:06.440 -> 53:08.200] to, I'm starting to hear more and more.
[53:08.960 -> 53:13.120] Well, that may be the perception, but it's not, you know, it has to boil down
[53:13.120 -> 53:15.640] to the ability of the engineers to produce a fast car.
[53:16.700 -> 53:18.200] Now, what is causing that?
[53:18.560 -> 53:19.040] Don't know.
[53:19.040 -> 53:21.260] Is it, is it the leadership?
[53:21.260 -> 53:23.760] Is it the ability of the people concerned?
[53:24.360 -> 53:26.760] I can't answer that because they can only answer that themselves.
[53:26.760 -> 53:28.560] They know what's going on inside that team.
[53:28.560 -> 53:31.760] And in the fullness of time, we'll find out.
[53:31.760 -> 53:33.000] Probably.
[53:33.000 -> 53:36.560] Well, they haven't got much time if they want to hang on to a top talent.
[53:36.560 -> 53:40.560] If they want to hang on to Lando Norris, aren't they running out of time to do that?
[53:40.560 -> 53:43.280] Yeah, I would say so.
[53:43.280 -> 53:46.960] In fact, I think they're probably coming close to losing him already because
[53:47.760 -> 53:50.160] ultimately, ever since he joined, they've been going downhill.
[53:50.960 -> 53:55.040] Yeah, it's unlucky because he's clearly put a lot of faith in the team and they've clearly sold it
[53:55.040 -> 53:55.360] to him.
[53:55.360 -> 53:56.800] Why is it unlucky?
[53:56.800 -> 53:57.600] Well, it's just unlucky.
[53:57.600 -> 53:59.520] There's no such thing as luck.
[53:59.520 -> 54:00.480] Isn't there?
[54:00.480 -> 54:01.200] In Formula One.
[54:01.200 -> 54:05.880] Well, with one or two exceptions, like, you know, Alex Albon having an appendicitis on
[54:05.880 -> 54:09.920] the one weekend when his car is going to be good is bad luck.
[54:09.920 -> 54:12.600] But cars not going fast enough is not bad luck.
[54:12.600 -> 54:22.480] It's just bad, whatever, bad levels of dedication, bad engineering, whatever.
[54:22.480 -> 54:23.480] It's not luck.
[54:23.480 -> 54:25.720] Oh, I meant for Orlando that it's bad luck.
[54:25.720 -> 54:29.880] Well, it's not. No, he made the choice based on, he made a very long contract.
[54:29.880 -> 54:32.000] He did, yeah.
[54:32.000 -> 54:39.160] Based on the fact that it all looked fine at the time. Now, he's done very well. He's
[54:39.160 -> 54:45.280] seen off Daniel Ricciardo, so he's kind of left his mark. He has to see off Oscar Piastri as well,
[54:54.880 -> 55:00.000] to make sure that he is still valued in the open market. But he may, having seen it all from the inside, he may think, oh, well, this isn't going to get fixed in a hurry. We don't know. We'll see.
[55:00.000 -> 55:06.800] I mean, we'll find out when the decision comes. but it will come, you know, we'll find out one
[55:06.800 -> 55:11.200] way or the other. If he commits to McLaren for another three years, you'll know that he believes
[55:11.200 -> 55:16.720] in McLaren. If he doesn't, you'll know that he doesn't. Excellent. Thanks for circling back to
[55:16.720 -> 55:22.720] that. I think Mark is satisfied with your answer. And we've got a continuing the driver questions
[55:22.720 -> 55:25.960] with Rob Asher who says with Mick
[55:25.960 -> 55:29.580] and Nicholas gone from Formula One does Joe think we now have an F1 grid which
[55:29.580 -> 55:33.080] is entirely filled with drivers who genuinely have the talent to be there
[55:33.080 -> 55:37.980] and aren't out of their depth and if so has this ever happened before? Now this
[55:37.980 -> 55:41.580] is one of the reasons... You need to read the green notebook that was published on
[55:41.580 -> 55:47.320] the Joe Bloggs F1 yesterday, which says that I was going
[55:47.320 -> 55:51.860] into the weekend when Lance Stroll had broken hands.
[55:51.860 -> 55:56.920] I was wondering if this was the first weekend we would have a grid based entirely on talent
[55:56.920 -> 55:57.920] alone.
[55:57.920 -> 56:02.560] And actually, if you read Grand Prix Plus, you'll see the same argument in that magazine
[56:02.560 -> 56:05.480] because you have to pay for these things. So people don't
[56:05.480 -> 56:09.280] read that. You don't have to pay to the blog, we have to pay for
[56:09.280 -> 56:14.360] the magazines, but all this has been written already. And so I
[56:14.360 -> 56:18.840] think that, you know, we have, yeah, I mean, I don't want to be
[56:18.840 -> 56:26.040] cruel to Lance, because Lance is nearly nearly there in terms of talent.
[56:26.040 -> 56:30.140] He's quick and he has lots of the elements that were required, but he doesn't have all
[56:30.140 -> 56:31.420] of them.
[56:31.420 -> 56:37.680] And if you want evidence of why I can dare say such a horrid thing, he's done 125 Grand
[56:37.680 -> 56:41.440] Prixs, six seasons, and he's 24 years old.
[56:41.440 -> 56:44.400] Now, usually you get two seasons and then you're out.
[56:44.400 -> 56:45.200] Ask Mick. Yeah, well you get two seasons and then you're out. Ask Mick.
[56:51.120 -> 56:57.680] Yeah, well, you can name loads, you know, Palmer, Mazepin, Sorokin. If you haven't proved it in two seasons, generally speaking, you don't get any more
[56:57.680 -> 57:04.400] time unless you have vast amounts of money. And then you have a situation like that Venezuelan
[57:04.400 -> 57:05.000] chap,
[57:06.120 -> 57:07.440] can't remember, Maldonado.
[57:07.440 -> 57:09.480] Yeah, Maldonado, that's another good example
[57:09.480 -> 57:11.240] where you've got fast guys with enough money
[57:11.240 -> 57:14.960] to get themselves into, you know, edge them over into F1
[57:14.960 -> 57:17.760] and that is the kind of classic buy-in driver.
[57:17.760 -> 57:20.440] Yeah, you get your shot to go further.
[57:20.440 -> 57:21.400] Well, you do nowadays.
[57:21.400 -> 57:22.760] In the old days, they used to come in
[57:22.760 -> 57:24.800] with very little talent, but nowadays it's gradually-
[57:24.800 -> 57:25.720] They're all good.
[57:25.720 -> 57:26.720] They're all good.
[57:26.720 -> 57:27.720] They will come a day.
[57:27.720 -> 57:28.720] They are all good.
[57:28.720 -> 57:29.720] Latifi was good.
[57:29.720 -> 57:31.640] Mick Schumacher is good, but they're not good enough.
[57:31.640 -> 57:32.680] And that's the point.
[57:32.680 -> 57:38.360] The point is that it's a very, very high bar that people come in and they have to jump
[57:38.360 -> 57:39.360] over that bar.
[57:39.360 -> 57:43.840] Now, if you're Lance, you're fortunate because you've been able to try jumping over that
[57:43.840 -> 57:47.000] bar for six years, as opposed to most people who get two.
[57:47.000 -> 57:54.720] So that is the downside I suppose.
[57:54.720 -> 57:59.800] But having said that, last weekend, if it wasn't for that ridiculous communication strategy
[57:59.800 -> 58:03.440] of not telling anyone what was wrong with Lance, I would have been impressed.
[58:03.440 -> 58:10.080] I am impressed now that the story came out this morning as to what Lance had gone through to get there. I am impressed by what...
[58:10.640 -> 58:16.400] Oh yeah, but you know, why hide it? That's the stupid thing. Why hide it? Why pretend it's a
[58:16.400 -> 58:21.440] privacy issue? It's not a privacy issue. It will impact on his on-track performance. Therefore,
[58:22.000 -> 58:25.240] he should have told the world. There are people who bet money on these things.
[58:25.240 -> 58:31.240] That is actually very, you have to be careful about privacy because, well, we can't really
[58:31.240 -> 58:34.340] bust his leg because something's betting on him, you know.
[58:34.340 -> 58:35.880] You have to be careful with this sort of stuff.
[58:35.880 -> 58:41.640] But if we'd known in advance, I mean, I knew in advance because I did some research and
[58:41.640 -> 58:44.220] found out what was wrong with him more or less.
[58:44.220 -> 58:49.520] And so I was quite impressed. But having said that, the sort of, well, it's all a privacy issue,
[58:49.520 -> 58:53.600] it's a kind of lack of respect for the journalist. So, okay, if you don't want to tell us, I won't
[58:53.600 -> 58:56.880] tell you what a wonderful job he did. Or just speculate wildly, you know,
[58:56.880 -> 58:58.960] they did invite. Well, you can speculate wildly,
[58:58.960 -> 59:02.720] but I didn't speculate wildly. I found out what was wrong with him. Then I'm quite impressed by
[59:02.720 -> 59:07.600] the job he did. But if they're not willing to tell us what's going on, why should we be willing to tell
[59:07.600 -> 59:13.040] him what a wonderful job he did? You know, they have to learn, if you can't teach him with logic,
[59:13.040 -> 59:16.800] you have to teach him with a hammer. And so you hit him on the head a couple of times,
[59:16.800 -> 59:21.840] and then they realize, oh yeah, we could have done that better. So, you know, I think he did
[59:21.840 -> 59:26.540] a terrific job. And it also made me maybe look again at the question of motivation.
[59:26.540 -> 59:28.580] Cause lots of people say, well, he's just a rich boy and he's doing
[59:28.580 -> 59:29.700] what daddy wants him to do.
[59:30.360 -> 59:35.620] And what he did last weekend puts, kind of kicks that into touch that argument
[59:36.160 -> 59:40.000] that he's not doing it because he's motivated, you know, you've got various
[59:40.000 -> 59:43.080] bits of you busted up and you're getting in the car and doing that.
[59:43.080 -> 59:45.880] You can't really turn the wheel properly because it hurts a lot.
[59:46.200 -> 59:49.240] And that is impressive.
[59:49.860 -> 59:54.520] Now, he still doesn't necessarily have the same levels of talent of as Fernando
[59:54.520 -> 59:58.060] Alonso, but nonetheless, he did a terrific job.
[59:58.060 -> 01:00:03.360] Now, if the, when it's all healed in the course of this season, and if we see
[01:00:03.560 -> 01:00:07.540] Fernando finishing third everywhere, I would expect, if he's not a
[01:00:07.540 -> 01:00:12.720] paid driver, for Lance to be finishing fourth everywhere and occasionally finishing third.
[01:00:12.800 -> 01:00:14.940] That's what it should be in a normal setup.
[01:00:15.260 -> 01:00:18.580] If he finishes sixth every time, that's another thing.
[01:00:18.820 -> 01:00:21.160] You know, it's a question of degree.
[01:00:21.160 -> 01:00:23.980] So I'm not writing him off as hopeless because he's not hopeless.
[01:00:24.660 -> 01:00:25.240] But I am saying, you hopeless because he's not hopeless.
[01:00:25.240 -> 01:00:26.800] But I am saying, you know,
[01:00:26.800 -> 01:00:29.600] he's had a lot more chances than everybody else.
[01:00:29.600 -> 01:00:32.040] And he is the last one I would now consider
[01:00:32.040 -> 01:00:35.440] to be a paid driver in the classic definition of the word.
[01:00:35.440 -> 01:00:36.400] Like a buy-in driver,
[01:00:36.400 -> 01:00:39.280] like he's literally financing the seat that he has.
[01:00:39.280 -> 01:00:42.440] You know, you can say that Guan Yu Zhou is,
[01:00:42.440 -> 01:00:43.880] but Guan Yu Zhou is good.
[01:00:43.880 -> 01:00:45.260] You know, he's talented as well.
[01:00:45.260 -> 01:00:48.260] And I see no evidence to back up the fact that there may be
[01:00:48.260 -> 01:00:49.940] sponsors who followed him somewhere.
[01:00:50.020 -> 01:00:52.820] It doesn't mean they were, you know, they paid to get him in there.
[01:00:52.820 -> 01:00:53.680] It's slightly different.
[01:00:54.020 -> 01:00:57.360] He was, he was fundamentally chosen because he's talented.
[01:00:57.360 -> 01:00:59.540] And we've seen that, you know, anyone who can beat Valtteri
[01:00:59.540 -> 01:01:05.520] Bottas in his first year on half the occasions in qualifying, he's quick.
[01:01:05.520 -> 01:01:07.520] It's as simple as that.
[01:01:07.520 -> 01:01:11.560] So, and Logan Sargent is obviously quick too.
[01:01:11.560 -> 01:01:14.120] We've seen that all through his career, but he's arrived in Formula One.
[01:01:14.120 -> 01:01:15.800] He's not overawed by it all.
[01:01:15.800 -> 01:01:17.120] He's just sort of get on with it.
[01:01:17.120 -> 01:01:18.360] It's what you do.
[01:01:18.360 -> 01:01:22.880] So I think it's great that we're in a situation where you have just talent alone.
[01:01:22.880 -> 01:01:29.360] And I think it will continue to grow in that direction because pay drivers are not, they
[01:01:29.360 -> 01:01:34.240] can't come up with the kind of money that's worthwhile having them anymore.
[01:01:34.240 -> 01:01:35.240] Good point.
[01:01:35.240 -> 01:01:37.280] Because you need the points more than anything else.
[01:01:37.280 -> 01:01:39.320] And the points bring you so much.
[01:01:39.320 -> 01:01:46.480] And the amount of carbon fiber damage that comes with some pay drivers in inverted commas.
[01:01:48.000 -> 01:01:50.920] You know, the amount of damage costs so much these days too.
[01:01:50.920 -> 01:01:54.480] So, you know, you can have somebody arrive with 20 million, but if they
[01:01:54.480 -> 01:01:59.280] don't, if they lose you 10 million in prize money and they cost you 5
[01:01:59.280 -> 01:02:03.920] million in smashed up car, it's not worth having them, is it?
[01:02:04.120 -> 01:02:04.560] Yes.
[01:02:07.520 -> 01:02:11.560] smashed up car. It's not worth having him is it? Yes, so Logan Sargent's first lap took away a little bit of my doubts. All I was saying was that my bar is a
[01:02:11.560 -> 01:02:15.120] little bit higher when I see someone with that family money. But yeah, lap one
[01:02:15.120 -> 01:02:18.200] he looks like a real late racer. But you haven't studied his background? No, not at all.
[01:02:18.200 -> 01:02:22.080] Not at all. Well there you are you see, you need to look into the background. Well I can just
[01:02:22.080 -> 01:02:29.040] watch the race. Well you can, but if you look in the background you can then have your expectations suitably honed. Good point, one to do.
[01:02:29.920 -> 01:02:34.880] One to do in the future and you know we always have wanted to get some kind of Junior Series
[01:02:34.880 -> 01:02:40.080] Myst Apex spin-off going so that we can be more prepared when these drivers come through and see
[01:02:40.080 -> 01:02:45.800] that racing there more closely. But if Stroll is the most pay-iest driver that we
[01:02:45.800 -> 01:02:52.080] have, and me as someone who's been the grumpiest about someone just buying a team, I would
[01:02:52.080 -> 01:02:57.960] say that my argument now is he makes a pretty decent second driver that you could conceivably
[01:02:57.960 -> 01:03:02.080] employ possibly. I know you've said no in the past, but you know, if you wanted to bring
[01:03:02.080 -> 01:03:09.940] him in as a second driver with experience in F1 and able to turn a wheel, like he's broadly there, there or thereabouts now. That
[01:03:09.940 -> 01:03:14.920] makes me optimistic about the grid. And I think, Rob, the answer to that is, this is
[01:03:14.920 -> 01:03:17.920] the least pay-driver-y grid we've ever had.
[01:03:17.920 -> 01:03:22.440] Without a question. Without a question, that's true. But I was looking on the Bahrain Grand
[01:03:22.440 -> 01:03:25.920] Prix of 2023 being a landmark as the first race
[01:03:25.920 -> 01:03:28.360] without a paid driver in it.
[01:03:28.360 -> 01:03:32.480] Okay, which we didn't have because Lance Stroll made it back.
[01:03:32.480 -> 01:03:37.940] Because the grid is a great grid, I don't think the Bahrain Grand Prix, maybe the TV
[01:03:37.940 -> 01:03:43.000] direction didn't quite catch everything, because it was only until I was scrolling back and
[01:03:43.000 -> 01:03:48.240] looking through social media afterwards that I saw there was a fantastic battle, for example, down the grid between Yuki
[01:03:48.240 -> 01:03:54.080] Snowda and Pierre Gasly. And there was some great racing in that and that was two talented,
[01:03:54.080 -> 01:04:00.160] popular guys fighting towards the back of the midfield. And even in a dominant season,
[01:04:00.720 -> 01:04:06.360] if, like in 2013, the TV direction got very used to following the battles further
[01:04:06.360 -> 01:04:10.400] back, it's still going to be an entertaining season, if stuff like that happens.
[01:04:10.400 -> 01:04:13.600] It is. What you need...
[01:04:13.600 -> 01:04:18.120] Here comes the lap chart. Right, what Joe doesn't realise is that most of you are audio
[01:04:18.120 -> 01:04:23.800] listeners and that the sound completely changes when he puts things between him and the mic.
[01:04:23.800 -> 01:04:28.680] That is a lap chart. So if you lap chart a race, you can see every battle all the way down through the field.
[01:04:29.200 -> 01:04:33.360] Nobody does it anymore because everyone's so modern and electronic and they think you can get
[01:04:33.360 -> 01:04:34.760] all the things you need, but it's not.
[01:04:34.840 -> 01:04:36.400] That's the best way to follow everything.
[01:04:36.400 -> 01:04:37.040] And you still do it?
[01:04:37.560 -> 01:04:38.080] I still do it.
[01:04:38.080 -> 01:04:41.400] So every time a driver crosses the line, you put down their position.
[01:04:41.760 -> 01:04:43.960] And so you can see the order going through the race and track.
[01:04:43.960 -> 01:04:46.960] You can see how close they are all the way down through the order.
[01:04:47.000 -> 01:04:50.080] And I've done it from the very beginning of my career, because it's
[01:04:50.080 -> 01:04:51.600] like writing your own race report.
[01:04:51.600 -> 01:04:55.040] If you have a little annotations, little, little marks on that piece of
[01:04:55.040 -> 01:04:58.560] paper that tell you who's close, where an overtake is about to happen, where
[01:04:58.560 -> 01:05:03.160] somebody's had a crash, where somebody's spun, fastest laps, all this stuff is all
[01:05:03.160 -> 01:05:03.480] there.
[01:05:03.640 -> 01:05:05.680] Someone should make an app that does all that.
[01:05:06.960 -> 01:05:14.740] Yeah, but why can't they just, I know it's hard work, but there are people who can still
[01:05:14.740 -> 01:05:19.960] actually use their brains enough to write down a bunch of numbers as opposed to having
[01:05:19.960 -> 01:05:21.120] an app do it all for you.
[01:05:21.120 -> 01:05:26.600] Apps don't, yeah, maybe you can come up with an app that shows the gaps and marks things on a
[01:05:26.920 -> 01:05:30.040] spreadsheet or whatever you're trying to do. But it's much
[01:05:30.040 -> 01:05:33.280] easier to do it with. The other thing is when all the timing
[01:05:33.280 -> 01:05:35.880] machines break down at Grand Prix, the only people who know
[01:05:35.880 -> 01:05:38.440] what's going on are the lap charters.
[01:05:38.560 -> 01:05:41.640] I must admit, even though I've got the live timing up, a lot of
[01:05:41.640 -> 01:05:44.560] time when I'm looking at race pace, I will write sector times
[01:05:44.560 -> 01:05:45.140] down just to see who's performing, who's getting tired, drop time when I'm looking at race pace, I will write sector times down just
[01:05:45.140 -> 01:05:48.520] to see who's performing, who's getting tired, drop off, because by looking at the
[01:05:48.520 -> 01:05:51.740] sectors that shows you quite a bit more than just the out and out lap times.
[01:05:51.980 -> 01:05:54.640] But at some point they're going to come up with an app that stores all
[01:05:54.640 -> 01:05:56.440] the sector times for you as well.
[01:05:57.320 -> 01:05:57.580] No, no.
[01:05:57.580 -> 01:06:02.120] But what you need at the end of the race is an app that produces the story, which
[01:06:02.400 -> 01:06:09.480] I'm afraid the apps are clever, but they're not as clever as the human brain. No that's true and if you have to produce a quality PDF Grand Prix
[01:06:09.480 -> 01:06:13.760] Plus style magazine that's available just hours after the race that's the
[01:06:13.760 -> 01:06:18.040] kind of information you need Joe and we will link to the subscription page to
[01:06:18.040 -> 01:06:22.160] Grand Prix Plus magazine in the show notes below. You pay once for the whole
[01:06:22.160 -> 01:06:26.240] year it's us stealing from you, the way you price
[01:06:26.240 -> 01:06:30.240] it, to be honest, Joe. But you have to do it now. Now is the best value time of the
[01:06:30.240 -> 01:06:31.240] year because you sell it one year at a time.
[01:06:31.240 -> 01:06:34.240] Well, it's good value all the time because you still get the same number of issues.
[01:06:34.240 -> 01:06:38.920] Yeah, but some of those races are in the past. Once you get to December, buy it now.
[01:06:38.920 -> 01:06:47.440] If you buy it now, you get them all brand new. But, you know, it's how magazines should be and it's not all bullet
[01:06:47.440 -> 01:06:49.520] points. You can actually follow what's going on.
[01:06:49.520 -> 01:06:52.360] It is like an olden days magazine, but in PDF.
[01:06:52.360 -> 01:06:57.640] It is a little bit, but it's got a bit of everything that they used to have in old magazines.
[01:06:57.640 -> 01:07:02.000] But you know, if you go and take a modern magazine and wait 10 years and then read it
[01:07:02.000 -> 01:07:04.720] and try to find out what happened in the race, you're going to have a bunch of bullet points.
[01:07:04.720 -> 01:07:06.160] You have no clue what really happened.
[01:07:06.160 -> 01:07:07.160] That's true.
[01:07:07.160 -> 01:07:08.160] It's no good to you.
[01:07:08.160 -> 01:07:09.880] It's no good to you.
[01:07:09.880 -> 01:07:13.840] If you have one, if you go back and see the old magazines, go look at old autosports,
[01:07:13.840 -> 01:07:17.640] you can read what happened from start to finish 20 years after the event.
[01:07:17.640 -> 01:07:18.640] It looks like a newspaper.
[01:07:18.640 -> 01:07:23.360] Read a modern magazine, modern magazine, you get bullet points and photo captions and 12
[01:07:23.360 -> 01:07:25.560] word articles. and at the
[01:07:25.560 -> 01:07:28.760] end of it trying to piece together what actually happened is very difficult.
[01:07:28.760 -> 01:07:32.200] It's just that I'll have to explain to some people what a PDF is. It's like you've
[01:07:32.200 -> 01:07:36.360] taken a photo of the magazine and then he sends you all the individual pictures
[01:07:36.360 -> 01:07:40.160] of the pages. What do you mean you have to explain what a PDF is? People don't read something that's a PDF.
[01:07:40.160 -> 01:07:43.760] I'm saying it's really good I'm just saying no one else is doing that.
[01:07:43.760 -> 01:07:48.000] Well that's true because nobody else can do it as quickly as we can.
[01:07:48.000 -> 01:07:49.000] Excellent. Right, Joe?
[01:07:49.000 -> 01:07:55.000] We do this six hours after the race, so it's like a 90-page magazine. Nobody knows how we do it.
[01:07:55.000 -> 01:07:57.000] And we're keeping that a secret.
[01:07:57.000 -> 01:08:03.000] Pictures and everything, a proper story of the race. Go and check out Joe, his GP Plus magazine, and JoeBlog's F1.
[01:08:03.000 -> 01:08:05.120] Click all the show notes below.
[01:08:05.120 -> 01:08:08.200] Joe, final question for you before you go.
[01:08:08.200 -> 01:08:10.360] It's, oh, we've flown past the hour, Mark.
[01:08:10.360 -> 01:08:11.840] My apologies.
[01:08:11.840 -> 01:08:16.840] When, what race will Max Verstappen seal the championship?
[01:08:17.440 -> 01:08:18.520] I have no idea.
[01:08:18.520 -> 01:08:19.600] Zandvoort.
[01:08:19.600 -> 01:08:20.960] Zandvoort, can you do it quickly enough
[01:08:20.960 -> 01:08:23.180] for a home celebration?
[01:08:23.180 -> 01:08:26.160] That would be gruesome with all those orange people jumping up
[01:08:26.160 -> 01:08:27.840] and down, wouldn't it?
[01:08:27.840 -> 01:08:28.720] I don't know.
[01:08:28.720 -> 01:08:29.640] I don't know.
[01:08:29.640 -> 01:08:31.400] Who knows?
[01:08:31.400 -> 01:08:32.800] You can't judge these things.
[01:08:32.800 -> 01:08:35.160] You might have five consecutive engine failures.
[01:08:35.160 -> 01:08:35.800] Who knows?
[01:08:35.800 -> 01:08:37.120] That's true.
[01:08:37.120 -> 01:08:38.480] Or loads of collisions.
[01:08:38.480 -> 01:08:41.120] But I think it's fair to say that he is looking
[01:08:41.120 -> 01:08:43.160] like the favorite right now.
[01:08:43.160 -> 01:08:45.280] Go and follow Joe at Joe Sayward on Twitter,
[01:08:45.280 -> 01:08:50.480] you can follow me at SpannersReady and the show at Mist Apex F1. We're going to have some news
[01:08:50.480 -> 01:08:56.080] coming up for you at the weekend and an interview with strategist Mike Caulfield, that's already in
[01:08:56.080 -> 01:09:43.920] the can, it is definitely going to be worth your time. But wherever we see you next, work hard, be kind, and have fun! This was MrApexPodcast. Looking for a fun way to win up to 25 times your money this football season?
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