Podcast: Missed Apex
Published Date:
Tue, 25 Jul 2023 23:14:48 GMT
Duration:
1:26:22
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Spanners and Trumpets are joined by video editor extraordinaire Steve Amey and Presenter/Commentator and 7News Sports Reporter Jonathan ‘Jono’ Simon as they hand pick the cream of the 21st century crop based only on vibes. From champions triumphant to midfield magnificence, no suggestion is too outrageous to argue in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast.
Here is our final ranking in no particular order. Like really, Jono just typed it up super fast…
Final
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Spanners Ready Spanners���� (@SpannersReady)
spanners@missedapex.net
Spanners 🔧🔧 (@spannersready) • Instagram photos and videos
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Matt Trumpets mattpt55 (@mattpt55)
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Matt Trumpets (@mattpt55) on Threads
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**Introduction:**
* The hosts introduce the topic of the podcast episode: creating an ultimate 21st-century Formula One grid based on vibes, with no restrictions on car or era.
**Selection Criteria and Format:**
* The grid will consist of 20 drivers, similar to the current F1 grid size.
* The selection process will begin with the world champions from 2000 onwards, followed by midfield nominations, and then wild card picks.
* Drivers will be evaluated based on their performances during their peak seasons, regardless of the car they drove.
* The hosts will consider both on-track success and off-track intangibles when making their selections.
**Champion Nominations:**
* Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen are unanimously chosen as the first two drivers on the grid.
* There is some debate about whether Jenson Button deserves to be included, with Matt arguing for his inclusion based on his 2009 championship win, while Steve and Jono question whether he truly belongs among the top 20.
**Sebastian Vettel:**
* Steve argues that Vettel does not deserve a spot on the grid, citing his lackluster performance after his four consecutive world championships with Red Bull.
* Matt defends Vettel, highlighting his dominance during that period and his ability to make a closer run for the championship with Ferrari than anyone else had managed.
* The hosts eventually agree to place Vettel in a mid-tier category for further consideration.
**Michael Schumacher:**
* Despite their personal dislike for Schumacher, the hosts acknowledge his undeniable greatness and his role in redefining the sport.
* They agree that Schumacher's impact on F1 and his status as an all-time great secure his place on the grid.
**Fernando Alonso:**
* Alonso's inclusion is met with mixed reactions, with Matt and Jono praising his on-track talent and entertainment value, while Steve expresses his frustration with Alonso's tendency to cause drama and make poor team choices.
* The hosts ultimately agree that Alonso's achievements and intangibles make him a worthy addition to the grid.
**Conclusion:**
* The episode ends with the hosts teasing the next episode, where they will continue their selection process for the ultimate 21st-century F1 grid. # Missed Apex Podcast Episode Summary:
## Topic: Ranking the Top 21st Century Formula One Drivers Based on Vibes
### Introduction:
- The podcast hosts, Spanners, Matt Trumpets, Steve Amey, and Jonathan 'Jono' Simon, embark on a lively discussion to handpick the cream of the crop of 21st-century Formula One drivers based solely on their vibes.
- The ranking is not in any particular order, and the final list is compiled spontaneously during the episode.
### Drivers Discussed:
1. **Lewis Hamilton:**
- Considered one of the greatest drivers in Formula One history, with multiple world championships and race wins.
- Known for his aggressive driving style and exceptional racecraft.
2. **Max Verstappen:**
- A rising star in Formula One, known for his fearless driving and ability to overtake other drivers.
- Has won multiple races and is seen as a potential future world champion.
3. **Sebastian Vettel:**
- A four-time world champion, known for his consistency and ability to adapt to different cars and tracks.
- Considered one of the most versatile drivers of his generation.
4. **Michael Schumacher:**
- A legendary Formula One driver, with seven world championships and numerous race wins.
- Known for his dominance in the sport during the early 2000s.
5. **Fernando Alonso:**
- A two-time world champion, known for his aggressive driving style and ability to win races in different cars.
- Considered one of the most talented drivers of his generation.
6. **Mika Häkkinen:**
- A two-time world champion, known for his smooth driving style and ability to perform under pressure.
- Remembered for his intense rivalry with Michael Schumacher.
7. **Robert Kubica:**
- A talented driver who won a race in 2008 and was considered a potential world champion before a near-fatal crash in 2011.
- Made a comeback to Formula One in 2019 but struggled to regain his previous form.
8. **Nico Rosberg:**
- A world champion, known for his consistency and ability to beat Lewis Hamilton as teammates in Mercedes.
- Retired from Formula One after winning the championship in 2016.
9. **Jenson Button:**
- A world champion, known for his adaptability and ability to win races in different cars.
- Considered one of the most underrated drivers of his generation.
10. **Daniel Ricciardo:**
- A popular driver known for his entertaining driving style and ability to win races in different cars.
- Has won multiple races and is considered one of the best drivers of his generation.
11. **Kimi Räikkönen:**
- A world champion, known for his stoic demeanor and ability to win races in different cars.
- Considered one of the most experienced and respected drivers in Formula One.
12. **Jacques Villeneuve:**
- A world champion, known for his aggressive driving style and ability to win races in different cars.
- Son of the legendary Gilles Villeneuve.
13. **Juan Pablo Montoya:**
- A talented driver known for his aggressive driving style and ability to win races in different series.
- Won the Indianapolis 500 in 2000 and 2015.
14. **Johnny Herbert:**
- A popular driver known for his entertaining driving style and ability to win races in different cars.
- Won the British Grand Prix in 1995.
15. **Charles Leclerc:**
- A rising star in Formula One, known for his aggressive driving style and ability to win races.
- Considered a potential future world champion.
16. **David Coulthard:**
- A popular driver known for his consistency and ability to win races in different cars.
- Won 13 races during his Formula One career.
17. **Kamui Kobayashi:**
- A talented driver known for his aggressive driving style and ability to win races in different series.
- Won the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2021.
18. **Lando Norris:**
- A rising star in Formula One, known for his aggressive driving style and ability to win races.
- Considered a potential future world champion.
19. **George Russell:**
- A rising star in Formula One, known for his consistency and ability to win races.
- Considered a potential future world champion.
20. **Mark Webber:**
- A popular driver known for his aggressive driving style and ability to win races in different cars.
- Won nine races during his Formula One career.
### Noteworthy Points:
- The hosts emphasize the importance of choosing drivers based on their vibes rather than solely on their statistics and achievements.
- There is a lively debate among the hosts about which drivers should be included in the top 20, with different opinions and perspectives being presented.
- The final list is a combination of established champions, talented midfield drivers, and entertaining personalities who have left a lasting impact on Formula One.
- The hosts also discuss the potential entertainment value of having certain drivers as teammates, such as Nico Rosberg and Max Verstappen, to create on-track drama.
### Conclusion:
- The podcast episode provides an engaging and informative discussion about the top 21st-century Formula One drivers based on their vibes, offering a unique perspective on the sport and its personalities. - **Introduction:**
- The podcast episode features a discussion among experts in Formula One racing, including Spanners, Steve Amey, Jonathan 'Jono' Simon, and Matt Trumpets, as they handpick the cream of the crop from the 21st-century drivers based solely on vibes.
- **Selection Criteria:**
- The selection process is based on a unique approach, prioritizing the drivers' vibes and overall impact on the sport, rather than solely relying on statistical achievements or race wins.
- **Chosen Drivers:**
- The final list of drivers selected by the panelists, in no particular order, includes:
- Lewis Hamilton
- Max Verstappen
- Sebastian Vettel
- Michael Schumacher
- Fernando Alonso
- Mika Häkkinen
- Robert Kubica
- Nico Rosberg
- Jenson Button
- Daniel Ricciardo
- Kimi Räikkönen
- Jacques Villeneuve
- Juan Pablo Montoya
- Johnny Herbert
- Charles Leclerc
- David Coulthard
- Kamui Kobayashi
- Lando Norris
- George Russell
- Mark Webber
- **Controversies and Notable Moments:**
- The discussion includes debates and disagreements among the panelists, particularly regarding the inclusion of certain drivers and the exclusion of others.
- There is a heated discussion about whether Mark Webber, despite his impressive statistics, should be included due to being considered a "number two driver" during his time at Red Bull.
- Felipe Massa's career and his brief moment of being statistically the world champion in 2008 are brought up, with varying opinions on his overall legacy.
- **Key Insights and Perspectives:**
- The panelists emphasize the importance of considering drivers' intangibles, such as their charisma, entertainment value, and impact on the sport's popularity, in addition to their race results.
- They acknowledge that the selection process is subjective and based on personal preferences, but they aim to provide a comprehensive and engaging discussion.
- The podcast highlights the panelists' expertise and passion for Formula One, offering insightful analysis and commentary on the drivers' careers and contributions to the sport.
- **Overall Message:**
- The episode showcases the diverse and subjective nature of evaluating drivers' greatness, emphasizing the importance of considering both tangible achievements and intangible qualities that contribute to their legacy in Formula One. ## **Missed Apex Podcast Episode Transcript: Ranking the Top 20 Formula One Drivers**
**Hosts:**
- Spanners Ready
- Matt Trumpets
- Jonathan 'Jono' Simon
**Key Points:**
* The hosts discuss the criteria for selecting the top 20 Formula One drivers, emphasizing the importance of vibes and entertainment value.
* They begin by listing their initial picks for the top 20 drivers, which include Lewis Hamilton, Max Verstappen, Sebastian Vettel, Michael Schumacher, Fernando Alonso, Mika Häkkinen, Robert Kubica, Nico Rosberg, Jenson Button, Daniel Ricciardo, Kimi Räikkönen, Jacques Villeneuve, Juan Pablo Montoya, Johnny Herbert, Charles Leclerc, David Coulthard, Kamui Kobayashi, Lando Norris, George Russell, and Mark Webber.
* The hosts engage in a lively debate about which drivers should make the final cut, considering factors such as race wins, podium finishes, and overall impact on the sport.
* They also discuss the importance of including drivers who brought excitement and entertainment to the sport, even if they didn't achieve the same level of success as some of the other drivers on the list.
* After much deliberation, the hosts finalize their top 20 list, which includes:
- Lewis Hamilton
- Max Verstappen
- Sebastian Vettel
- Michael Schumacher
- Fernando Alonso
- Mika Häkkinen
- Robert Kubica
- Nico Rosberg
- Jenson Button
- Daniel Ricciardo
- Kimi Räikkönen
- Jacques Villeneuve
- Juan Pablo Montoya
- Johnny Herbert
- Charles Leclerc
- David Coulthard
- Kamui Kobayashi
- Lando Norris
- George Russell
- Mark Webber
* The hosts acknowledge that the list is subjective and open to debate, and they encourage listeners to share their own opinions on social media.
**Memorable Quotes:**
* "This is like me and my friends playing Risk, where we have to clarify our house rules and that takes longer than the actual game." - Jason G., listener comment
* "I'm surprised. I thought there'd be more drivers." - Matt Trumpets, host
* "You could have put Arkon on there, I'm just saying." - Jono Simon, host
**Overall Takeaway:**
The hosts of the Missed Apex Podcast provide an entertaining and thought-provoking discussion about the top 20 Formula One drivers of all time. They emphasize the importance of vibes and entertainment value, and they ultimately select a list of drivers that they believe represent the best of the sport.
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[00:55.760 -> 01:10.520] fantasy sports made easy. You are listening to missed apex podcast we live at one
[01:24.320 -> 01:29.520] welcome to missed apex podcast I'm your host Richard Ready but my friends call me Spanners.
[01:29.520 -> 01:34.080] So let's be friends. We're doing something a bit different in our midweek show. Of course,
[01:34.080 -> 01:38.000] we're an independent podcast produced in the podcasting shed with the kind permission of
[01:38.000 -> 01:42.160] our better halves. We aim to bring you a race review before your Monday morning commute.
[01:42.160 -> 01:45.200] We might be wrong, but we're first, and sometimes,
[01:45.200 -> 01:50.480] during the week, we try and bring you random arguments from grumpy middle-aged men. And I
[01:50.480 -> 01:56.320] think we can achieve that aim today, if we just believe and try our hardest. So today, for no
[01:56.320 -> 02:07.520] reason at all, I've assembled a mega crew to try and find out our ultimate 21st century grid. So we're going to include all drivers from 2000 onwards.
[02:07.520 -> 02:16.320] Yes, yes, yes, I know, technically etc. the century started in 2001, but the loud majority
[02:16.320 -> 02:23.040] will overrule us. So we're going to go from drivers who raced at any time during 2000 are eligible,
[02:23.040 -> 02:25.920] which means that Pedro Diniz could be on our ultimate
[02:25.920 -> 02:31.640] grid and also Jarno Trulli could be on our ultimate grid, but Damon Hill, whose last
[02:31.640 -> 02:37.520] race was in 1999, can't make it. So those drivers, at their peak season, whenever it
[02:37.520 -> 02:42.720] was in their career, in whatever car suits them, judging them by how they did during
[02:42.720 -> 02:45.000] their era of F1.
[02:45.000 -> 02:51.000] So that's what we're going to do today, and I need to assemble a crew of relatively old people.
[02:51.000 -> 02:54.000] So it's Matt, two rumpets. How's it going, Matt?
[02:54.000 -> 02:57.000] Reliability equals performance.
[02:57.000 -> 02:59.000] Are we doing engines here?
[02:59.000 -> 03:02.000] How could I not be? They're meeting on Friday about it.
[03:02.000 -> 03:08.360] Don't. I'm really, I'm triggered about Renault whinging that, oh, well, we can't build a good enough
[03:08.360 -> 03:09.800] engine so you have to help us.
[03:09.800 -> 03:10.800] Oh, really?
[03:10.800 -> 03:13.200] So we're going to do that with aero as well, are we?
[03:13.200 -> 03:17.360] Again, this is the second time in this century they've had an engine freeze and somehow fallen
[03:17.360 -> 03:21.000] behind during the freeze and had to ask for permission to catch up.
[03:21.000 -> 03:22.160] It's fantastic.
[03:22.160 -> 03:27.480] And Red Bull are fully supporting their efforts to get engine equalization for 2026, which
[03:27.480 -> 03:32.280] I find massively sus. And I'm sure we'll cover that at some point during the summer.
[03:32.280 -> 03:35.840] A little slip from Veery that says, we owe you one, Red Bull.
[03:35.840 -> 03:40.960] There we go. There we go. Oh, how did this youngster get into this olden days chat? It's
[03:40.960 -> 03:43.840] Jonathan Simon. What are you doing here, you young pup?
[03:43.840 -> 03:47.000] Oh, I'm not sure. I think we needed... When you said 21st Century Grid, I'm like,
[03:47.000 -> 03:50.000] we need to make sure Weber's on there, Riccardo and Piastri.
[03:50.000 -> 03:54.000] So I'm here to do all three. And I brought a friend with me too, to make sure.
[03:54.000 -> 03:58.000] And yeah, it's a bit of an Aussie takeover as we've got our video editor, Steve Amey.
[03:58.000 -> 04:00.000] How's it going, Uncle Steve?
[04:00.000 -> 04:03.000] It's good morning, afternoon and evening, folks.
[04:03.000 -> 04:06.200] All I'm going to say is when it comes to tonight's topic,
[04:06.200 -> 04:08.700] some of me is right and the rest of you is wrong.
[04:08.700 -> 04:13.000] Oh, hello. I've already seen your list, Steve, and we definitely have a few scraps coming.
[04:13.000 -> 04:15.000] Oh, well, I'm up for it.
[04:15.000 -> 04:22.000] And you're the only person who I think here has watched more F1 pre-2000 than post-2000.
[04:22.000 -> 04:26.960] Oh, pretty much, yeah. I must be getting about the same now. I
[04:26.960 -> 04:32.440] mean I started watching in 78 so that's 22 years and it's been 22 years since
[04:32.440 -> 04:38.680] 2000 roughly so about the same. We welcome your sage and experienced input
[04:38.680 -> 04:44.080] as we decide the ultimate 21st century grid.
[04:44.000 -> 04:52.400] ultimate 21st century grid. Alright, first things first guys, we need to argue about how we're gonna do this.
[04:52.400 -> 04:55.360] So I'm gonna start with the champions.
[04:55.360 -> 05:00.760] So I suggest we start with the champions who've won a title since 2000 and then we go to our
[05:00.760 -> 05:05.580] kind of midfield nominations and I think that will fill up a 20 card grid.
[05:05.580 -> 05:10.660] So we'll go for 20 because that looks like we're staying for the moment at 20 in modern
[05:10.660 -> 05:13.180] F1 and then we'll go for our wild cards.
[05:13.180 -> 05:18.380] But the further we go down our list, the more we have to knock out people who have already
[05:18.380 -> 05:20.140] entered our top 20.
[05:20.140 -> 05:23.820] Okay, is there any objection to that format?
[05:23.820 -> 05:26.120] Of course there is from Matt, of course there is.
[05:26.120 -> 05:27.740] Of course I'm going to object.
[05:27.740 -> 05:29.880] You were thinking about this all wrong.
[05:29.880 -> 05:34.400] Because I'm imagining in my head, you used the word best and you just thought, oh, we
[05:34.400 -> 05:35.640] want the best drivers.
[05:35.640 -> 05:37.560] Yes, I did.
[05:37.560 -> 05:38.760] But that's boring.
[05:38.760 -> 05:40.080] They're just the best drivers.
[05:40.080 -> 05:43.440] You need the best contest to be really exciting.
[05:43.440 -> 05:46.720] So I'm going to suggest that every person we pick
[05:46.720 -> 05:50.000] needs their nemesis attached to them.
[05:50.000 -> 05:51.520] Yeah, no, that's not a bad shout.
[05:51.520 -> 05:53.600] So for example, I'll give you one example straight up.
[05:53.600 -> 05:55.620] Like when I was looking at Montoya,
[05:55.620 -> 05:58.760] a lot of his like standout races were against Schumacher.
[05:58.760 -> 06:00.800] And I think that goes in his favor.
[06:00.800 -> 06:03.480] Right, I was gonna use Hamilton and Rosberg, for example,
[06:03.480 -> 06:05.160] because Rosberg being the only
[06:05.160 -> 06:08.460] person I ever saw really get under Hamilton's skin.
[06:08.460 -> 06:10.000] But that's kind of what I'm thinking.
[06:10.000 -> 06:11.000] Uncle Steve?
[06:11.000 -> 06:15.400] Well, I've got a question since you're talking about rules.
[06:15.400 -> 06:21.740] Is this supposed to be based in reality or is this some sort of fantasy, you know, grid
[06:21.740 -> 06:23.080] game that we're playing?
[06:23.080 -> 06:28.760] Well looking at your list, a mix of both, Steve.
[06:28.760 -> 06:29.760] We have both there.
[06:29.760 -> 06:32.280] I was going to say, yours has got...
[06:32.280 -> 06:33.280] Sorry, mate.
[06:33.280 -> 06:37.760] Yeah, no, we all put up our list in our private show notes here, so we've all had a good chuckle
[06:37.760 -> 06:41.560] at each other's, and some arguments have started to brew already.
[06:41.560 -> 06:45.920] So are we doing... is 2000 considered part of the century? It is.
[06:45.920 -> 06:46.920] Because technically it's not.
[06:46.920 -> 06:47.920] I know.
[06:47.920 -> 06:51.320] But we're considering for this, 2000 is part of the century, just to make it easier.
[06:51.320 -> 06:56.080] Most people think, incorrectly, that 2000 is part of this century, so we're just going
[06:56.080 -> 06:57.080] to go with that.
[06:57.080 -> 06:58.080] Cool.
[06:58.080 -> 07:02.160] And Hanan, because the thing is now, and the reason why 2000 is critical, because 01 Mika
[07:02.160 -> 07:05.860] Hakkinen was, and we'll get into it, a farewell tour.
[07:05.860 -> 07:10.440] Here's a rule we'll put in right now, and it's coming from me, no farewell tour drivers.
[07:10.440 -> 07:13.660] So if it's 2001 and they're going on a farewell tour, that is disqualified.
[07:13.660 -> 07:15.600] We get Hakkinen 2000 over.
[07:15.600 -> 07:16.660] Let me clarify.
[07:16.660 -> 07:21.960] Any driver who drove in the 21st century is eligible, even if their best drives were,
[07:21.960 -> 07:23.640] say, in 1995.
[07:23.640 -> 07:25.840] So you can completely have Hacken and...
[07:25.840 -> 07:29.080] In fact, the driver who joined latest
[07:29.080 -> 07:31.960] that you can have is Jos Verstappen.
[07:31.960 -> 07:34.920] So Jos Verstappen, even though he joined into the 90s,
[07:34.920 -> 07:38.720] still drove in a year that began with two.
[07:38.720 -> 07:39.840] And then so you can basically have
[07:39.840 -> 07:42.720] from Verstappen to De Vries in new entries.
[07:42.720 -> 07:44.360] So here's some stats actually
[07:44.360 -> 07:45.200] about the amount of
[07:45.200 -> 07:52.480] drivers that have raced in the 21st century. There's 137 drivers to pick from and just to
[07:52.480 -> 07:58.560] give it a little bit of perspective 57 drivers have joined since Lewis Hamilton did if you're
[07:58.560 -> 08:07.120] if you're a Lewis Hamilton fan. So that's since 2007 and 69 drivers are eligible for this that joined before Lewis Hamilton.
[08:07.120 -> 08:11.040] So from Verstappen to De Vries, let's pick our grid.
[08:15.440 -> 08:21.200] Okay, so let's start off with the champions. So can we just quickly dismiss,
[08:21.920 -> 08:27.280] is there anybody here who would not put Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstappen
[08:27.280 -> 08:32.320] on our best 21st century grid? So we don't have to argue about those guys, surely.
[08:32.320 -> 08:37.880] Well, no. I'm not arguing about that, and surely not any champion on this list. You
[08:37.880 -> 08:41.440] look at the list and you go, if a champion doesn't make it, and even Jenson Button, who
[08:41.440 -> 08:45.760] won the championship in 2009, you have to say, lucked into a great
[08:45.760 -> 08:48.400] car, but he deserves to be on this grid regardless.
[08:48.400 -> 08:49.400] Okay, so brilliant.
[08:49.400 -> 08:50.400] Oh, you were so immediately wrong.
[08:50.400 -> 08:51.400] I loved it.
[08:51.400 -> 08:55.400] Our first argument, our first argument.
[08:55.400 -> 08:56.400] Okay, brilliant.
[08:56.400 -> 08:58.800] Uncle Steve, tell Jono why he's wrong.
[08:58.800 -> 09:05.680] Well, there's at least one champion there that shouldn't make it onto the grid at all, onto the, you know,
[09:05.680 -> 09:13.440] into the champions list. And that's a particular German who retired last year. I mean,
[09:15.280 -> 09:20.000] I think he's a pretty ordinary driver, but he was in a very good car. And there was absolutely
[09:20.000 -> 09:31.920] no other opposition for years. And as soon as we got to 2014 he died and went nowhere.
[09:31.920 -> 09:37.360] Oh man, so look Matt's furious at both of you here, so for completely different reasons. So
[09:37.360 -> 09:42.720] if I say order, order, okay we'll try and settle this to some kind of reason, please respect the
[09:42.720 -> 09:47.440] chair. Okay Matt, you've heard two opinions there there you've heard the case for Jensen Button and
[09:47.440 -> 09:52.680] against Vettel so which one do you want to fight with first? I didn't hear a case
[09:52.680 -> 09:59.280] for Button other than that he drove in the 2000s. I mean what car did he win his
[09:59.280 -> 10:06.200] championship in? The Braun. Yes he won his in a Honda. In the Braun 01. In the Braun 01.
[10:06.200 -> 10:09.320] And is that not the one he was with Barrichello, am I correct?
[10:09.320 -> 10:10.800] That is true.
[10:10.800 -> 10:16.240] And if I'm not entirely mistaken, did he just simply not luck into, through mechanical
[10:16.240 -> 10:21.840] ineptitude of the team, an initial championship lead that they just then doubled down on for
[10:21.840 -> 10:22.840] the rest of the season?
[10:22.840 -> 10:30.000] I'm pretty sure Barrichello was more or less beating him like a gong in that car as was most of the rest of the grid by
[10:30.000 -> 10:34.840] The end of the season he just had such a big head start and enough people just points off each other
[10:34.940 -> 10:36.600] That they couldn't catch him
[10:36.600 -> 10:42.600] But in no way now look you want to make an argument for button is like a midfielder or a journeyman
[10:42.600 -> 10:45.520] You you might have a stronger point but is it champion?
[10:45.520 -> 10:52.160] Nah, nah. If I had to pick Vettel or a button I'd take Vettel every time he won four seasons
[10:52.160 -> 10:57.840] on the jump and only three of them were actually most... Okay hang on I'm gonna have to fade the
[10:57.840 -> 11:03.440] panel down here. Order, order. Right that's the first time I've ever heard Matt get so passionate
[11:03.440 -> 11:07.280] that you actually clipped out your mic, like yelling into your mic.
[11:07.280 -> 11:07.920] Oh, sorry about that.
[11:07.920 -> 11:09.280] No, no, no, it's absolutely fine.
[11:09.280 -> 11:10.560] The passion there is incredible.
[11:10.560 -> 11:16.400] So the accusation there, Jonno, is that Button completely lucked into it, didn't actually do
[11:16.400 -> 11:21.680] particularly well in that season, and then did nothing around that championship in his career
[11:21.680 -> 11:25.600] to show that he should make the top 20 of the 21st century.
[11:25.600 -> 11:26.320] Your response?
[11:27.200 -> 11:33.200] You're talking about a guy who's won 15 races this century alone for three different teams,
[11:33.200 -> 11:37.680] and he's not going to make the best 20 drivers of the last 20, 23 years now?
[11:37.680 -> 11:38.320] That's a good point, Matt.
[11:38.320 -> 11:39.520] Now that is, come on.
[11:39.520 -> 11:40.320] That is silly.
[11:40.320 -> 11:44.880] I mean, if you're going to say that, Matt, right, then you might as well take Kimi Räikkönen out
[11:44.880 -> 11:47.960] of it because somehow he wouldn't be locked into a 2007 Ferrari.
[11:47.960 -> 11:50.800] I'm only including Raikkonen for the press conferences, my friend.
[11:50.800 -> 11:59.920] I actually had forgotten that Kimi won the 2007 World Championship because he was nowhere
[11:59.920 -> 12:01.480] in that championship.
[12:01.480 -> 12:06.960] Okay, so at the moment, right, I think Button is going to be at the bottom of my list.
[12:06.960 -> 12:09.600] So I've got Definite, Hamilton, Verstappen.
[12:09.600 -> 12:12.080] I think at the moment, Jono, you're on your own.
[12:12.080 -> 12:16.160] So I'm putting Button in the maybe list and he might be one of the first ones to get shuffled
[12:16.160 -> 12:19.120] off, for example, when I suggest Kobayashi.
[12:19.120 -> 12:20.800] So let's move on then.
[12:20.800 -> 12:22.720] Sebastian Vettel as a champion.
[12:23.280 -> 12:26.400] Does he make it into the top 20?
[12:26.400 -> 12:31.680] So Steve's made a reasonable case that he hasn't. Who's saying yes? Okay, we'll go for Jono. Jono,
[12:31.680 -> 12:34.560] make the case for, since you've already lost one, maybe you can win this one.
[12:35.120 -> 12:39.760] And look, if we could have a year of Vettel, like a vintage of him, take the 2010 version.
[12:39.760 -> 12:44.160] That's the funnest Vettel that I saw personally as a driver, because you had a mix of everything.
[12:44.160 -> 12:49.120] He was funny. He hadn't won a world title yet, he was still ruthless, drove around like
[12:49.120 -> 12:53.840] he was a dick on the racetrack and pissed off his teammate a little bit too, had that,
[12:53.840 -> 12:59.360] and also, at the same time, was so dominant in the car, and had a lot of mechanical failure,
[12:59.360 -> 13:03.160] still won a championship out of it, yes he had a great car, but I think Vettel proved
[13:03.160 -> 13:08.380] that he's one of the best drivers this century, Don't you dare not put him in your top 20 for the entire century.
[13:08.380 -> 13:12.740] Because do you guys realize there aren't that many good drivers this century if you're trying
[13:12.740 -> 13:16.700] to go for a top 20? He's not, for me, it's not a no brainer for
[13:16.700 -> 13:20.600] Vettel. And by the way, just to point out the Australians here, Keith in our Patreon
[13:20.600 -> 13:25.040] live chat says, if you omit Vettel, you definitely can't have Weber. So are you
[13:25.040 -> 13:29.360] sure, like, you know, are you sure, Steve? You sure you want to omit Vettel?
[13:29.360 -> 13:35.080] I don't omit Vettel, and when it comes down to it, you may be surprised at my thoughts
[13:35.080 -> 13:36.080] on Weber, too.
[13:36.080 -> 13:38.320] I just assumed blind patriotism.
[13:38.320 -> 13:41.920] Well, there's a bit of that, but let's try and be realistic.
[13:41.920 -> 13:45.280] Yes, yeah, yeah. And yeah, look, and by the way, so a little bit of a spoiler
[13:45.280 -> 13:50.400] looking ahead, that's exactly how I feel about Coulthard. Like, big Coulthard fan, really supported him at the time,
[13:50.800 -> 13:56.040] haven't been able to find a universe where he makes my top 20, so I'll be in a similar position.
[13:56.200 -> 13:59.440] But honestly, with Vettel, on a serious note, if anyone's gonna
[14:00.040 -> 14:03.920] defend him, and I think Matt will, he had a four-year period
[14:04.560 -> 14:06.720] where he looked really incredible
[14:06.720 -> 14:11.600] against his teammate. But in that period, he was definitely the favoured number one driver. I don't
[14:11.600 -> 14:18.480] think that's even controversial now. And apart from the odd multi-21 where they tried to let
[14:18.480 -> 14:26.960] Webber stay ahead in the Shanghai, in the Chinese Grand Prix,, like Vettel from 2010 onwards, he looked like the
[14:26.960 -> 14:34.400] better driver. Weber kind of threatened in 2010 and had a few really good results there. But he was
[14:34.400 -> 14:40.080] definitely the number two driver. Vettel was favoured. Yes, he had a win in the 2008 Toro Rosso,
[14:40.080 -> 14:46.800] but 2009, that could have been a Vettel championship. so you have to kind of put that down to, well,
[14:46.800 -> 14:48.840] maybe another driver would have won that championship.
[14:48.840 -> 14:51.000] Other drivers would have won 2017.
[14:51.000 -> 14:53.380] Other drivers would have won 2018.
[14:53.380 -> 14:58.600] He looked kind of ordinary against Leclerc, and he made Stroll look good.
[14:58.600 -> 15:03.000] Where is the case that this is one of the best drivers of the 21st century?
[15:03.000 -> 15:04.000] Matt?
[15:04.000 -> 15:06.080] You have literally made the case for me.
[15:06.640 -> 15:13.680] He won all four years at Red Bull. Uh no what no. That he won four championships. Four out of
[15:13.680 -> 15:18.800] four out of five years at Red Bull. Well I mean the four championships he won was with Red Bull.
[15:19.920 -> 15:24.560] Four championships Red Bull won he won all four. Yeah but he also missed. And if you're going to.
[15:25.280 -> 15:29.120] I will just say he missed the chance to win a championship at Red Bull as well.
[15:29.680 -> 15:33.360] If you're going to make that a rule, then how is that any different than Verstappen and Perez
[15:33.360 -> 15:37.440] right now at Red Bull? Perhaps we should kick Verstappen off because he's fighting against
[15:37.440 -> 15:42.320] Perez and he's won two years with a car that's extremely dominant. But the argument actually,
[15:42.320 -> 15:46.840] to me, goes to Ferrari, because at Ferrari in 2017,
[15:46.840 -> 15:52.760] he made a closer run of it than anyone we had seen. And the last driver to come that close
[15:52.760 -> 15:59.000] with Ferrari and not actually win it was Alonso. So if Alonso taking Ferrari to the edge counts
[15:59.000 -> 16:03.080] for getting him on the list, we're not to him yet, then I'm going to argue that Vettel in two
[16:03.080 -> 16:08.960] different teams, even though he didn't quite win with Ferrari, I mean, let's face it, Ferrari, if you even get within a mile
[16:08.960 -> 16:15.520] of the championship, look at Leclerc, for example, you got to admit, that's not too bad. Plus, I mean,
[16:15.520 -> 16:20.800] look at him banging wheels of Hamilton in the safety car line. How would you not want a driver
[16:20.800 -> 16:31.200] who drives like that yelling at his teammate over multi 21 how is that not entertaining you've got to put him on the grid hang on hang on okay so i i will just make the
[16:31.200 -> 16:38.160] case john o the vettel uh verstappen wins the 2017 championship in a ferrari verstappen wins the 2018
[16:38.160 -> 16:43.840] championship in a ferrari no no i disagree because you're talking about a young early
[16:45.280 -> 16:46.280] No, no, I disagree because you're talking about a young, early Verstappen who's not three years now.
[16:46.280 -> 16:47.280] Okay, fair.
[16:47.280 -> 16:51.360] So there's that case, but if you have Verstappen now, yeah, certainly he definitely makes it
[16:51.360 -> 16:52.360] a big challenge.
[16:52.360 -> 16:55.680] There was drivers around that would have won that title, that's all I'm saying.
[16:55.680 -> 16:59.840] Yeah, but to add to Vettel's point, and what I really like Matt is doing is we're not just
[16:59.840 -> 17:05.040] considering on-track success here, we're considering what's fun off-track, what's the intangible
[17:05.040 -> 17:07.080] here. Oh, he's great. I think he's a great guy.
[17:07.080 -> 17:12.360] A great team leader. People love to have him in the garage. If you're a mechanic, if you're
[17:12.360 -> 17:17.000] a team boss, he was great at all those aspects. You talk about a driver who... I mean, you
[17:17.000 -> 17:22.160] say LeClo had him. LeClo didn't have him up until after Canada 2019, which was a changing
[17:22.160 -> 17:25.040] point of Vettel's career. As soon as that penalty happened,
[17:25.040 -> 17:29.200] he was upset about it, he said he lost passion in the sport, and since then the club had him.
[17:29.200 -> 17:33.680] So I think Vettel still had it. Yeah, there were mistakes, retirements in his Ferrari years.
[17:33.680 -> 17:37.760] By far, I think he's a definite on this grid. If you're not going to include a four-time world
[17:37.760 -> 17:42.000] champion, regardless of how quick that car was, then you can't include Lewis Hamilton.
[17:42.000 -> 17:46.520] You can't include Matthew Macra. You can't include Matthew Macker. You can't include Matthew Macker.
[17:46.520 -> 17:48.080] We're gonna spend a lot of time on Vettel.
[17:48.080 -> 17:50.520] So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna create a mid category
[17:50.520 -> 17:52.320] for him at the moment, because it's 2-2.
[17:52.320 -> 17:53.280] It's 2-2.
[17:53.280 -> 17:56.360] But I think my final, okay, I'll let Matt come back at this.
[17:56.360 -> 17:58.360] But my final case will be,
[17:58.360 -> 18:00.160] after those four championships,
[18:00.160 -> 18:01.880] ordinary against Ricciardo,
[18:01.880 -> 18:04.280] didn't impress against Leclerc,
[18:04.280 -> 18:07.120] obviously beat up on, you know, a clear
[18:07.120 -> 18:12.320] number two at Ferrari when he had the chance, made Stroll look pretty decent compared to what Alonso's
[18:12.320 -> 18:19.120] doing now. I know he had those four championships, mate, but come on, like, we know that he has since
[18:19.120 -> 18:23.200] fallen very short and that, that's, come on, that's got to be something.
[18:23.760 -> 18:30.160] I'm going to use your rules against you because we get to pick them at their barnstorming best regardless of the year.
[18:30.160 -> 18:35.680] You absolute genius. Absolutely someone I want on the grid. He wins I think Steve I think he
[18:35.680 -> 18:40.080] makes he wins for that. We're back to fantasyland again now are we? No Steve.
[18:40.080 -> 18:48.920] I thought this was supposed to be reality. Steve I think double defuser peak Vettel in his era is going to have to be on the list.
[18:48.920 -> 18:49.920] What a matter.
[18:49.920 -> 18:50.920] I yield.
[18:50.920 -> 18:51.920] I yield to that, which makes it 3-1.
[18:51.920 -> 18:57.400] Okay, so on our champions list, I think Michael Schumacher is a no brainer simply because
[18:57.400 -> 18:59.240] he redefined the sport.
[18:59.240 -> 19:00.720] Was not a Michael Schumacher fan.
[19:00.720 -> 19:03.320] I think he more than bent the rules.
[19:03.320 -> 19:06.080] In fact, I'll go out and out and say he cheated
[19:06.080 -> 19:11.840] at every available opportunity. I think bludgeoned is a great word to use. He bludgeoned the
[19:11.840 -> 19:18.040] rules to death at every opportunity, but he's undoubtedly an all time great, pushed every
[19:18.040 -> 19:22.800] single boundary of wheel to wheel racing, technical knowledge and drivability. And the
[19:22.800 -> 19:29.600] amount of drivers that said he could drive around a problem Steve there's there's no way that we can not
[19:29.600 -> 19:32.960] include him on this list yeah unfortunately I have to agree with you
[19:32.960 -> 19:38.200] I was not a fan of I was not a fan of his at all and I agree with you that he
[19:38.200 -> 19:42.080] cheated whenever he could and some of the things he did out on track to other
[19:42.080 -> 19:47.840] drivers was just despicable but he did change the whole nature of Formula One,
[19:47.840 -> 19:51.360] and he's a force that no one could stop.
[19:51.360 -> 19:53.200] So yes, he goes in, absolutely.
[19:53.200 -> 19:54.560] And it was fascinating, wasn't it,
[19:54.560 -> 19:59.200] to see Schumacher come back later in his career as well.
[19:59.200 -> 20:03.440] And I'm not entirely convinced that age was particularly
[20:03.440 -> 20:04.400] against him.
[20:04.400 -> 20:05.840] He was probably every bit as
[20:05.840 -> 20:11.600] good as a driver as he was, but he wasn't finding himself in the same competitive machinery.
[20:11.600 -> 20:18.760] But his biggest problem was that he inspired a whole generation of the sport to say, right,
[20:18.760 -> 20:22.480] the minimum standard is you've got to be as fit as Schumacher, and you've got to race
[20:22.480 -> 20:26.640] as hard as Schumacher. And so he started in a sport of, you know,
[20:26.640 -> 20:28.720] 70s and 80s kind of heroes hanging out
[20:28.720 -> 20:31.120] at the side of the car with a cigarette.
[20:31.120 -> 20:33.480] And then when he came back in,
[20:33.480 -> 20:36.720] he was fighting the monsters he created.
[20:36.720 -> 20:38.680] That's exactly right.
[20:38.680 -> 20:42.200] And as you said, he was in, you know,
[20:42.200 -> 20:44.800] early Mercedes cars and let's face it,
[20:44.800 -> 20:47.840] they were absolute garbage until 2014.
[20:47.840 -> 20:53.520] So yeah, he didn't do as well when he came back, but I think that he'd already earned
[20:53.520 -> 20:59.240] enough leeway by then to get his spot in the top 10.
[20:59.240 -> 21:04.900] I was going to add that he adopted that from Senna, who adopted that from the drivers before.
[21:04.900 -> 21:05.200] So they've all learned from each other. Schum that from the drivers before, so they've all
[21:05.200 -> 21:06.200] learnt from each other.
[21:06.200 -> 21:08.800] And Schumacher, you're right, set the scene for fitness.
[21:08.800 -> 21:12.360] Here's one problem for Michael Schumacher, is as soon as he stepped out of the sport,
[21:12.360 -> 21:14.080] I think that was his problem coming back?
[21:14.080 -> 21:18.480] Had he taken a year off and then come back, and not the multiple years that he did?
[21:18.480 -> 21:23.400] I think he would've been fine and still would've had the pace, plus being a 41, 42 year old
[21:23.400 -> 21:26.280] driver in your early 40s like Fernando Alonso today,
[21:26.280 -> 21:32.080] is a lot easier to do than 10, 15 years ago, where the fitness is different, the technology
[21:32.080 -> 21:33.480] is all different.
[21:33.480 -> 21:37.200] These cars, I think, are a little heavier and I'm not going to say easier to drive,
[21:37.200 -> 21:40.800] but certainly not as difficult as they were in my opinion.
[21:40.800 -> 21:47.040] Connor Chaney says he also bludgeoned Villenev's side pod and Damon Hill's suspension wishbone.
[21:47.040 -> 21:48.040] So that's true.
[21:48.040 -> 21:49.040] That is true.
[21:49.040 -> 21:51.080] And look, there's a few drivers that did this.
[21:51.080 -> 21:57.360] So every driver that followed Schumacher had to be as physically fit and an athlete as
[21:57.360 -> 21:58.640] much as Schumacher was.
[21:58.640 -> 22:02.800] I think in the Hamilton era as well, there was this kind of like ultimate aggression
[22:02.800 -> 22:05.240] that Hamilton came in and surprised
[22:05.240 -> 22:10.520] everyone with a little bit. And then Verstappen has taken that to another level. So like all
[22:10.520 -> 22:14.880] this young breed of drivers that have come in and around Verstappen, they all drive like
[22:14.880 -> 22:20.960] Verstappen now. And the longer Hamilton and Alonso stay in, for example, I think the more
[22:20.960 -> 22:26.560] their natural raw aggression will be out-aggressioned by the kids coming through.
[22:26.560 -> 22:27.360] Jonno.
[22:27.360 -> 22:30.640] And it comes with maturity because when Lewis Hamilton came in the sport,
[22:30.640 -> 22:36.080] from his 07 to 2011 driving style is what you're seeing from Max Verstappen the last couple of
[22:36.080 -> 22:41.040] years. And as soon as he matured and got older, and you're starting to see that with Verstappen now,
[22:41.040 -> 22:44.720] their style changes a little bit. They drive like it's still go-karts, you know,
[22:44.720 -> 22:48.880] back in their early years of F1, these young guys, and eventually they find out that
[22:48.880 -> 22:52.640] they just get a bit more level-headed with it and understand the consequences and, you know,
[22:52.640 -> 22:56.160] wiser heads. But so far it's worked for Max Verstappen and it worked for Lewis Hamilton back
[22:56.160 -> 23:00.240] then, so I guess they should keep the style in my opinion. Okay, so at the moment we have our four
[23:00.240 -> 23:10.280] shoe-ins and Button hovering around the edges, And so our next champion to talk about is Fernando Alonso. I actually think this is a another no-brainer. When you compare
[23:10.280 -> 23:16.520] how Alonso has done to teammates, he has always consistently looked fast and he's got some
[23:16.520 -> 23:26.640] major flaws in his F1 career ability, which number one seems to be drama. He seems to cause drama wherever he goes and that is
[23:26.640 -> 23:32.440] backfired. His team selection is also very poor. I think all the teams he's driven for
[23:32.440 -> 23:36.840] have won world championships, but only Renault have won a world championship with him in
[23:36.840 -> 23:44.680] it. So, flaws aside, as a pure racer, Steve, I truly think that Fernando Alonso, who I'm
[23:44.680 -> 23:46.280] not a fan of, again falls into that Schumacherso, who I'm not a fan of, again falls
[23:46.280 -> 23:50.000] into that Schumacher category, but I think one of the all-time greats.
[23:50.000 -> 23:56.000] Again, you and I are going to agree on this, I don't like Alonso at all. I was a big Alonso
[23:56.000 -> 24:02.000] fan when he first started, but I think the Renault debacle in, when was that, 2007?
[24:02.000 -> 24:05.200] Oh, no, 2008, you're talking about the Singapore one? Yeah, 2008.
[24:05.200 -> 24:06.200] That was 2008.
[24:06.200 -> 24:07.200] Yeah, yeah.
[24:07.200 -> 24:13.560] I think that soured him for me, but if you look at his stats and the number of wins and
[24:13.560 -> 24:19.160] the number of podiums he's had, he is a very good racer and he's still racing now and he's
[24:19.160 -> 24:20.800] still very competitive now.
[24:20.800 -> 24:25.000] Sure, his car in the last couple of races hasn't been quite up to scratch,
[24:25.000 -> 24:30.080] but he's also earned enough to go into that top 10 without a doubt. And as I said in my
[24:30.080 -> 24:34.000] notes, much to my chagrin, I have to let him in.
[24:34.000 -> 24:40.720] For me, Jono, though, it's the teammate battles. How many teammates have stood up to Fernando
[24:40.720 -> 24:46.720] Alonso? Really only the statistically greatest F1 driver of all time, Lewis Hamilton.
[24:46.720 -> 24:50.880] That's true. And that's what makes Fernando Alonso so entertaining. He could be on this
[24:50.880 -> 24:56.560] list on intangibles alone. He doesn't have to be on here for his driving. He is the overall package
[24:56.560 -> 25:01.280] and I think will be the most entertaining driver we're going to have on this list, as far as I can
[25:01.280 -> 25:08.720] think of it. Yeah, you can say, oh, let's bring in Kamui Kobayashi with his amazing overtakes and stuff, but he doesn't have all the other intangibles that
[25:08.720 -> 25:14.960] Alonso had. He doesn't have the on-track talent. So I think Fernando is, is 100% a lock, but can
[25:14.960 -> 25:19.600] I request that if we're going to put Fernando on this, can we have the 2010 Ferrari Alonso,
[25:19.600 -> 25:26.720] which when you watched him in the red with his blue and yellow and Spanish helmet going,
[25:26.720 -> 25:30.400] wow, that is the scariest driver team combo I've ever seen in my life.
[25:30.400 -> 25:34.800] Yeah, actually, I think that is probably P. Colonzo, Steve, when he'd come from Renault
[25:34.800 -> 25:38.800] and then he had all the stuff with Hamilton, then went to Ferrari to be that driver,
[25:38.800 -> 25:40.560] to be the next Schumacher.
[25:41.120 -> 25:44.480] Sure, and I think the big problem was that Ferrari couldn't live up to that.
[25:44.480 -> 25:49.120] He was ready for it, and I think that, you know, slightly different timeframe, he would
[25:49.120 -> 25:58.520] have been a huge, you know, winner and champion for Ferrari. You know, you're right. He is,
[25:58.520 -> 26:02.000] you know, perhaps the most entertaining or John is right, the perhaps the most entertaining
[26:02.000 -> 26:11.040] driver. He's also the most frustrating driver, I think. He shows so much promise, and his team let him down all the time, and he let himself
[26:11.040 -> 26:16.320] down a lot of the time. So, you know, he's one of those strange drivers. And he could have done a
[26:16.320 -> 26:22.000] lot better for himself if he'd just used his, I don't know, his position and his mental attitude
[26:22.000 -> 26:26.000] to give himself, not make such silly decisions, I suppose,
[26:26.000 -> 26:28.160] I should say, particularly about teams.
[26:28.160 -> 26:29.160] And Matt?
[26:29.160 -> 26:35.360] Well, I know, and I think you're right, perhaps absolute peak Alonso was Ferrari Alonso.
[26:35.360 -> 26:37.280] He almost won the champion, much like Vettel.
[26:37.280 -> 26:41.560] He just, if it weren't for Vitaly Petrov, he would have won that championship.
[26:41.560 -> 26:48.720] Well, actually, it wasn't so much Petrov as it was terrible pit calls from the Ferrari. Oh, gosh, I'm repeating myself. Never mind.
[26:48.720 -> 26:54.160] But to me, what sticks out from his early career, and that really, I think, you're like,
[26:54.160 -> 26:59.840] okay, here's a driver that we have to include, is his overtake around the outside of 130R on
[26:59.840 -> 27:01.200] Schumacher. Yeah.
[27:01.760 -> 27:06.840] On those treaded tires, that was, it was just like, you're just like, who would
[27:06.840 -> 27:08.160] even try that?
[27:08.160 -> 27:11.960] And my only other note, and it's really a tiny one there, Spanners, is he's actually
[27:11.960 -> 27:14.480] had two teammates to run him close.
[27:14.480 -> 27:15.480] Hamilton and Ocon.
[27:15.480 -> 27:17.640] Oh my God, I knew you were going to do that.
[27:17.640 -> 27:20.520] I was like, surely Matt's not going to ruin this by mentioning Ocon.
[27:20.520 -> 27:26.240] I mean, just from, again, from a statistical point of view, I'm not wrong here.
[27:26.240 -> 27:27.240] Not at all.
[27:27.240 -> 27:31.200] It's the only mention Ocon will get in this program, so let him have it.
[27:31.200 -> 27:32.620] Oh, Steve, you're brutal.
[27:32.620 -> 27:34.340] This is why I love having Aussies on.
[27:34.340 -> 27:35.960] You guys, like, you don't care at all.
[27:35.960 -> 27:40.000] Like, what's it like in Australia when you're all like that all the time?
[27:40.000 -> 27:42.520] It's the only Esteban that'll get mentioned in this podcast, too.
[27:42.520 -> 27:45.360] You could rule out all the Estebans from the 21st century.
[27:45.360 -> 27:49.720] Actually I have another Esteban from my Chaos Agents section, but that's me and Gutierrez.
[27:49.720 -> 27:51.640] Hard for Gutierrez I'll be fighting.
[27:51.640 -> 27:52.640] Anyway, boring.
[27:52.640 -> 27:53.800] I think we all agree with Alonso.
[27:53.800 -> 27:59.920] Okay, so I did not imagine I would be going to bat for this driver when we started this
[27:59.920 -> 28:06.320] segment, but the more and more I thought about it, the more I want to include Nico Rosberg in our top 20.
[28:07.360 -> 28:10.000] Who's going to disagree with me? Because Matt's actually agreeing, I can't believe it.
[28:10.000 -> 28:13.280] Matthew Feeney No, no, no, no. If you can't include
[28:13.280 -> 28:17.920] Button Sorry Spanners, you're going to have to put Rosberg in the maybe list. You're going to have
[28:17.920 -> 28:30.400] either one or the other. I don't mind him going on the maybe list like if there's room but the case I want to make is remembering back to how he hit the scene in 2006. So I think he did he entered before
[28:30.960 -> 28:35.520] Hamilton and I think his first team was Williams but I do remember people were genuinely talking
[28:35.520 -> 28:42.160] about him as a phenomenon. He was, his whole trajectory to F1 was he was meant to be the
[28:42.160 -> 28:45.240] next big thing. He was meant to basically be what we've got
[28:45.240 -> 28:50.080] with Verstappen now, and Hamilton completely ruined it. And you can see Hamilton shadowed
[28:50.080 -> 28:54.880] his karting, and they were good friends, but Hamilton was obviously just that little cut
[28:54.880 -> 28:59.880] above. And then when they got to Mercedes together, Hamilton was already a world champion,
[28:59.880 -> 29:06.200] which gave him an advantage within the team. He was quote unquote given that podium.
[29:06.200 -> 29:08.040] I think it was at Sepang.
[29:08.040 -> 29:08.880] I think it was at Sepang.
[29:08.880 -> 29:09.700] Yeah, Malaysia.
[29:09.700 -> 29:10.540] Yeah, Malaysian Grand Prix,
[29:10.540 -> 29:12.560] where Rosberg had the tires at the end of the race
[29:12.560 -> 29:13.400] and was all over him,
[29:13.400 -> 29:15.080] but Hamilton was defending really hard
[29:15.080 -> 29:16.320] and they had to come on the team radio
[29:16.320 -> 29:18.760] and say, Rosberg, hold position, stop fighting.
[29:18.760 -> 29:21.360] And even Hamilton felt super guilty about that.
[29:21.360 -> 29:23.880] And look, 2015, 2016,
[29:23.880 -> 29:25.960] I genuinely think Hamilton had fully had the
[29:25.960 -> 29:31.100] measure of Rosberg. He'd set up for the race, his race pace and his tyre management, especially
[29:31.100 -> 29:37.180] in stint one, he had the measure of Rosberg completely and in 2016 Rosberg was lucky.
[29:37.180 -> 29:49.160] So I agree with you Jono, that the Rosberg 2016 kind of equals the button 2009, but 2014. 2014, Rosberg was every bit on pace,
[29:49.160 -> 29:54.960] was every bit as fast as Lewis Hamilton, and for, but for a twist of fate, but for gearbox
[29:54.960 -> 30:00.200] selection in Double Points Abu Dhabi in 2014, Rosberg would have had that title. So that's
[30:00.200 -> 30:02.360] why I want Rosberg on my grid, Jono.
[30:02.360 -> 30:07.660] He's probably the most fun driver we could have argued out of all these drivers so far
[30:07.660 -> 30:10.660] right now, as to whether he's a definite, a maybe.
[30:10.660 -> 30:16.180] With Rosberg, he kind of... the credit to him is, he won those nine races in a row,
[30:16.180 -> 30:20.900] end of 2015, start of 2016, beat a Lewis Hamilton in 2016.
[30:20.900 -> 30:24.900] And people can argue this, but I remember at 2016 saying this, this is the best we'd
[30:24.900 -> 30:29.280] ever seen Lewis Hamilton drive an F1 car. And he still beat him that season.
[30:29.280 -> 30:34.680] I think there's no question Nico Rosberg is severely underrated, was on fire in his early
[30:34.680 -> 30:39.000] years, beat Michael Schumacher. The dude, I don't know, maybe is almost an insult.
[30:39.000 -> 30:43.160] I would like, I would have liked Rosberg to, now looking back, because obviously I'm a
[30:43.160 -> 30:46.160] Hamilton fan, but now I would have preferred Rosberg won now, looking back, because obviously I'm a Hamilton fan, but now I would have preferred Rosberg,
[30:46.160 -> 30:48.000] well in 2014 than 2016,
[30:48.000 -> 30:49.760] I think the record books would look more correct
[30:49.760 -> 30:52.040] that way around, put it that way, Matt.
[30:52.040 -> 30:56.400] Yeah, well, I have multiple reasons to include Rosberg.
[30:56.400 -> 30:59.460] Number one, my theory of the nemesis.
[30:59.460 -> 31:01.080] If you're gonna have Hamilton on the grid,
[31:01.080 -> 31:04.780] you need the one person who drives him absolutely nuts
[31:04.780 -> 31:05.420] and can get
[31:05.420 -> 31:07.660] under his skin and mess with him.
[31:07.660 -> 31:09.760] And that's very clearly Nico Rosberg.
[31:09.760 -> 31:15.380] Number two, like my friend Jono, I love you casually mentioned, oh yeah, he beat Schumacher
[31:15.380 -> 31:18.140] a multiple world champion quite thoroughly.
[31:18.140 -> 31:22.560] Granted, with Schumacher coming back to the court, coming back to the chase after having
[31:22.560 -> 31:27.560] been off, but he, he clearly, clearly beat him in that Mercedes.
[31:27.560 -> 31:32.520] And had had Nicky Lauda not talked Hamilton into joining Mercedes
[31:32.520 -> 31:35.240] in that hotel room, which sounds a bit dodgy, but whatever.
[31:35.360 -> 31:36.000] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[31:36.000 -> 31:39.600] Then then then we could be talking about how many championships in a row.
[31:39.600 -> 31:44.400] Rosberg had won instead because Russell has beat Hamilton to a championship.
[31:44.440 -> 31:45.240] Now he hasn't had a chance. That's fair. Did Bot Russell has beat Hamilton to a championship? No.
[31:45.240 -> 31:46.560] He hasn't had a chance, that's fair.
[31:46.560 -> 31:49.120] Did Botas ever beat him to a championship?
[31:49.120 -> 31:50.120] Not even close.
[31:50.120 -> 31:51.120] That's what I'm saying.
[31:51.120 -> 31:52.960] ALICE And this is what's fun about this, let's
[31:52.960 -> 31:56.720] say this is like a fantasy grid that we have to watch, like it's a TV show tonight, and
[31:56.720 -> 32:00.800] we're like, we just wanna watch one F1 race, with the 20 best drivers from this entry,
[32:00.800 -> 32:05.200] I want Nico Rosberg on the grid, and I want him pissing off all the drivers who have won
[32:05.200 -> 32:08.200] a championship and annoying them bit by bit every lap of the race.
[32:08.200 -> 32:09.200] That's what I want to see.
[32:09.200 -> 32:15.320] Can I just say that this is my most begrudging one of drivers I was definitely not a fan
[32:15.320 -> 32:19.520] of at the time, and then having to begrudgingly put them on our grid.
[32:19.520 -> 32:22.680] This is absolutely the most gut-wrenching one for me.
[32:22.680 -> 32:29.860] So I think we've made the case for Rosberg, and we still have a couple of champions from this century left. So we have Kimi
[32:29.860 -> 32:34.100] Raikkonen who was the 2007 champion who I actually forgot to put on the list
[32:34.100 -> 32:40.640] because 2007 was not about Kimi Raikkonen at all. It was all about Hamilton versus
[32:40.640 -> 32:51.800] Alonso. That was what the whole world was watching and then Raikkonen kind of snuck in because McLaren just did some crazy, crazy stuff. So yes, there's rumours
[32:51.800 -> 32:56.040] because of Spygate and all that such a thing, they were told not to win the title. I don't
[32:56.040 -> 33:00.420] really buy into any of that, but Hamilton could have been world champion except for
[33:00.420 -> 33:05.720] being inexplicably left out on wearing tires. Canvas.
[33:05.720 -> 33:09.320] There wasn't even tread left on that tire when he came into the pit.
[33:09.320 -> 33:13.600] But everyone on the sofas was like screaming at the TV saying, how are you leaving him
[33:13.600 -> 33:14.860] out on those tires?
[33:14.860 -> 33:18.320] And then when he eventually tried to pit, he couldn't even get into the pit lane and
[33:18.320 -> 33:22.020] he went into the gravel and that ended up, you know, and then that and then a gearbox
[33:22.020 -> 33:23.180] failure was it?
[33:23.180 -> 33:31.520] In Interlagos handed Kimi Räikkönen the title. So look, Kimi Räikkönen is a world champion. That was a funny one.
[33:31.520 -> 33:36.600] Can we really point to the rest of his career and say, you know, he should be on this top
[33:36.600 -> 33:39.120] 20 of this century? Go on, Steve.
[33:39.120 -> 33:45.640] Well, he was no doubt a very, very good driver. Yes, he only won one world championship, Button
[33:45.640 -> 33:53.000] only won one in that period. And I think up until he retired and went away and went rally
[33:53.000 -> 33:58.400] driving, I think that he was probably one of the very best drivers on the grid. I think
[33:58.400 -> 34:09.960] going to, I think he lost, you know, his love of the sport and went away rally driving. And even when he came back, he came back for the money, not for the, you know, the love
[34:09.960 -> 34:11.160] of the sport.
[34:11.160 -> 34:16.160] So up until when he went away rally driving, yes, I think that he did everything to, you
[34:16.160 -> 34:19.640] know, get a place on this top 20.
[34:19.640 -> 34:27.360] What he did after when he came back and drove, I think was a little bit iffy. I don't think that
[34:27.360 -> 34:32.760] he was, you know, really had his heart and soul into it, although he had plenty of podiums
[34:32.760 -> 34:36.560] in the period, you know, beforehand and he had a few after, but he only had one win,
[34:36.560 -> 34:39.840] I think, after he came back.
[34:39.840 -> 34:44.480] To me, I know he's a bit of a hero for his quips, but I think, Steve, you've detailed
[34:44.480 -> 34:47.640] the fact that he didn't definitely want to be there.
[34:47.640 -> 34:52.460] So the definition of do you love your job is if I gave you infinite money, would you
[34:52.460 -> 34:53.980] still do it?
[34:53.980 -> 34:59.840] So you give me infinite money, I'm still here yelling at Australians about F1 champions.
[34:59.840 -> 35:02.360] That is still what I would do.
[35:02.360 -> 35:05.460] I don't think Kimi Raikikkönen necessarily falls into that category.
[35:05.460 -> 35:07.840] And that kind of always sort of, yeah,
[35:07.840 -> 35:11.080] and it's jealousy because you're literally living
[35:11.080 -> 35:13.040] all our boyhood dreams and you kind of are,
[35:13.040 -> 35:15.640] nah, I don't care so much.
[35:15.640 -> 35:16.880] But Matt, once again, you're right,
[35:16.880 -> 35:20.560] we're talking peak Räikkönen, does he make this grid?
[35:20.560 -> 35:22.720] Well, I mean, that's a tough one.
[35:22.720 -> 35:24.160] If you ask me about Räikkönen,
[35:24.160 -> 35:29.320] I would pick him more for the press conferences and the off-track entertainment. And frankly, if we're talking
[35:29.320 -> 35:31.600] Finns, I would take Hakkinen over Raikkonen.
[35:31.600 -> 35:32.600] Well, that's the next one.
[35:32.600 -> 35:35.000] He's not gotten to him yet.
[35:35.000 -> 35:39.840] Okay. Raikkonen's a firm, I think he's on our maybe list and he's behind Button and
[35:39.840 -> 35:41.640] Rosberg in my mind.
[35:41.640 -> 35:45.880] The thing he does have is being, I think, is he possibly the oldest driver to have ever
[35:45.880 -> 35:50.120] won a Formula One race in the modern era in this century?
[35:50.120 -> 35:51.480] Because didn't he?
[35:51.480 -> 35:52.480] Really?
[35:52.480 -> 35:53.480] Or was it just that he beat Vettel?
[35:53.480 -> 35:54.480] I can't remember.
[35:54.480 -> 35:55.480] He did something at Circuit of the Americas.
[35:55.480 -> 35:56.480] Are you talking about Austin?
[35:56.480 -> 35:57.480] Yeah.
[35:57.480 -> 35:58.480] Or podium.
[35:58.480 -> 35:59.480] Maybe it was a podium.
[35:59.480 -> 36:00.480] I'm not sure.
[36:00.480 -> 36:01.480] No, he won the race.
[36:01.480 -> 36:02.480] Yeah.
[36:02.480 -> 36:03.480] Okay.
[36:03.480 -> 36:04.480] All right.
[36:04.480 -> 36:05.000] I'm not wrong. I think he's the oldest driver to win something this century. I think that was the only race he won after race. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm not wrong.
[36:05.000 -> 36:06.000] I think he's the oldest driver to win something this century.
[36:06.000 -> 36:09.160] I think that was the only race he won after he came back.
[36:09.160 -> 36:10.160] Yeah.
[36:10.160 -> 36:11.160] Was that okay?
[36:11.160 -> 36:15.160] But anyway, so I mean, just for the old people, maybe you put him in there.
[36:15.160 -> 36:16.160] All right.
[36:16.160 -> 36:17.160] One for the old people.
[36:17.160 -> 36:18.160] Okay.
[36:18.160 -> 36:19.160] So I think, I think we know where Hakkinen is.
[36:19.160 -> 36:20.160] But okay.
[36:20.160 -> 36:21.760] So, so we know where Kimi is.
[36:21.760 -> 36:22.760] Sorry.
[36:22.760 -> 36:28.520] Mika Hakkinen for me was a, uh, an and I think still I can define him as a childhood hero,
[36:28.520 -> 36:31.120] and his time in the Silver Arrows,
[36:31.120 -> 36:33.760] up against Coulthard, who I rated at the time, Steve,
[36:33.760 -> 36:37.580] I think it's another shoe-in for me.
[36:37.580 -> 36:41.780] I think Häkkinen is one of the all-time sports greats,
[36:41.780 -> 36:45.280] if not a little bit of a stunted career.
[36:51.000 -> 36:55.800] Yeah, I'm a big Hakanen fan and was when he was racing and he gets a vote from me, even though both his championships were pre 2000, he was still racing.
[36:57.200 -> 36:59.960] He raced 2001, I think, was his last year.
[37:01.320 -> 37:03.560] So, yeah, he was a great racer.
[37:03.960 -> 37:07.000] He beat lots of other good drivers.
[37:07.000 -> 37:09.880] Admittedly, he was in a good car in those days.
[37:09.880 -> 37:12.400] You know, they were half decent cars.
[37:12.400 -> 37:16.280] But he had the right mental attitude.
[37:16.280 -> 37:18.520] He had the right skill base.
[37:18.520 -> 37:25.840] And I don't think there were many other drivers at that time that could, that phased him. Shoemaker came along a
[37:25.840 -> 37:32.560] little bit, you know, at the end of his reign and took over from him. And the races, I remember,
[37:32.560 -> 37:37.040] between those two in, you know, 2000, 2001, were quite epic races. You know, there was,
[37:37.600 -> 37:42.000] they were giving each other plenty of stick. And also, like, okay, I don't know if anyone's
[37:42.000 -> 37:47.000] ever made this comparison, but Hakanen and Leclerc,
[37:47.000 -> 37:51.600] there's something about their attitudes to themselves and their internal psychology that
[37:51.600 -> 37:55.240] I remember Hakanen being really, really self-critical.
[37:55.240 -> 37:59.360] So there was the famous one, after he'd won his world championship, he took himself into
[37:59.360 -> 38:01.380] the woods to berate himself.
[38:01.380 -> 38:04.480] And there was a helicopter cam showing him punching the ground.
[38:04.480 -> 38:09.200] And I saw an interview where he just said, he was just telling himself off, like, you're a world champion. How
[38:09.200 -> 38:15.440] are you still making these mistakes? Very much beating himself up like Leclerc. And so I don't
[38:15.440 -> 38:21.120] know, Jono, maybe I'm letting my heart and my fandom of him overtake Raw stats.
[38:21.680 -> 38:29.680] But heart is what matters in F1. And you want a driver on the grid who you feel this way about. A driver people root for. When
[38:29.680 -> 38:32.120] you saw Micah Hacken and crash at Monza, for example, in
[38:32.120 -> 38:35.360] whatever, I think it was early 2000s and late 90s, and him
[38:35.360 -> 38:36.800] crying in the bushes.
[38:36.800 -> 38:38.600] That's the one I'm talking about. Was that Monza, was it?
[38:38.600 -> 38:38.880] Yeah.
[38:39.200 -> 38:42.520] Yeah. And that's what you want to see, you know, because for me,
[38:42.560 -> 38:48.680] it's if, like I said, if this is a TV show tonight, and'm flicking on Netflix and I go, I want to watch an F1 race with
[38:48.680 -> 38:49.680] my fantasy grid.
[38:49.680 -> 38:54.480] I want Mika Häkkinen on the grid, a driver who can take it to people on the track, emotional
[38:54.480 -> 38:55.480] off the track.
[38:55.480 -> 38:59.000] Um, well, actually that's a little ironic because he didn't say much either.
[38:59.000 -> 39:00.000] But-
[39:00.000 -> 39:02.680] For a Finn, for a Finn, he says an awful lot.
[39:02.680 -> 39:03.680] Yeah.
[39:03.680 -> 39:06.080] For a Finn, and he's a very smart guy too.
[39:06.080 -> 39:10.320] Now, here's the funny part about it, there's still a chance he could return to the F1 grid,
[39:10.320 -> 39:11.320] because he still hasn't retired.
[39:11.320 -> 39:12.320] He still hasn't officially announced that.
[39:12.320 -> 39:16.040] So I'm hoping he comes back sometime soon.
[39:16.040 -> 39:17.640] Okay, and we're being...
[39:17.640 -> 39:21.760] You've got to give Hakanen one thing, you've got to remember, when was it, 97 in Melbourne,
[39:21.760 -> 39:25.840] he crashed badly, and they thought that would be the end of his career.
[39:25.840 -> 39:33.200] He had fairly nasty head injuries, if I remember right. And for someone to come back from that
[39:33.200 -> 39:38.640] and win two world championships pretty well straight after it, that takes a huge amount
[39:38.640 -> 39:43.680] of cojones to do that and dedication. And so he gets it for that, for me.
[39:43.680 -> 39:50.280] And I think we're being corrected on Raikkonen, that he had won races in the Lotus. And didn't he win Abu Dhabi in the Lotus?
[39:50.720 -> 39:58.080] What we what Matt meant, I think, was in the turbo hybrids, I think he meant like he was because the Lotus wins will win the V8 era.
[39:58.240 -> 39:59.520] Yeah, yeah.
[39:59.600 -> 40:05.120] I just meant that his last my last memory of him winning was in that Ferrari
[40:05.120 -> 40:10.320] at Circuit of the Americas, and I think that made him the oldest driver to have won in
[40:10.320 -> 40:11.320] this century.
[40:11.320 -> 40:17.480] All right, well, we are now moving past the champions as we decide our best grid of the
[40:17.480 -> 40:20.480] 21st century.
[40:20.480 -> 40:27.880] All right, let's get into our non-champion nominations then.
[40:27.880 -> 40:29.960] Who fancies going for it?
[40:29.960 -> 40:31.680] Oh, we forgot one champion!
[40:31.680 -> 40:32.680] Oh my goodness!
[40:32.680 -> 40:37.840] Yeah, well, we forgot Jacques Villeneuve, who technically raced, and here's why, and
[40:37.840 -> 40:41.240] X-Fanners, you know what, we're not to blame for this.
[40:41.240 -> 40:46.320] His 21st century drives were not of a world champion, he was checked out of F1, but he
[40:46.320 -> 40:50.440] technically did win that 97 title, and if he did race in the 21st century, under our
[40:50.440 -> 40:53.640] rules to remind our listeners, we are allowed to put him on the grid.
[40:53.640 -> 40:58.560] No, and I'm glad you said that, because I was always a fan of Jack Villeneuve, because
[40:58.560 -> 41:03.440] he was a disruptor, really, and I was young and stupid, and he was also young and stupid
[41:03.440 -> 41:05.040] at the time, and he came in, you know,
[41:05.040 -> 41:10.080] he's like, oh my goodness, he's dyed his hair slightly. How, how can this be? You know, that's
[41:10.080 -> 41:15.120] not very gentlemanly at all. But it did feel like he came in, you know, as a little bit of a
[41:15.120 -> 41:19.840] disruptor, a little bit of something different. And probably, you know, one of the, one of the
[41:19.840 -> 41:26.940] personalities of his time, I'm not actually convinced that we can put him in on Raw.
[41:26.940 -> 41:34.000] Like him at his best, compared to his peers, is he going to make the top 20 of the 21st
[41:34.000 -> 41:35.000] century?
[41:35.000 -> 41:40.080] So anyone want to make the case for him, or is this another maybe?
[41:40.080 -> 41:43.880] The only case to be made for him is sheer entertainment.
[41:43.880 -> 41:44.880] There we go.
[41:44.880 -> 41:47.280] And most of that was after he left F1.
[41:47.280 -> 41:50.120] He's got a motor mouth and knows how to use it.
[41:50.120 -> 41:52.120] My goodness, does he have opinions?
[41:52.120 -> 41:54.640] How doesn't he not have a podcast?
[41:54.640 -> 42:01.080] Because a podcast is essentially, you know, when a middle-aged white man loves his opinions very, very much, a podcast is born.
[42:01.080 -> 42:03.280] So how on earth does Jack Villeneuve not have one?
[42:03.280 -> 42:04.280] We should reach out.
[42:04.280 -> 42:07.280] Maybe he'll come and speak to us. You've got to have a distributor who'll put up with him though.
[42:08.000 -> 42:14.880] He seems to be everywhere. If Jack Villeneuve farts, it is on like, you know, motorsport.italia,
[42:14.880 -> 42:19.520] isn't it? So anyway, right, okay, we'll put Villeneuve on our maybe and I've got a feeling
[42:19.520 -> 42:23.920] he'll be our first champion to get knocked off the list. Okay, so who would like to suggest some
[42:23.920 -> 42:29.760] midfield drivers? Hands up. Matt had his hands up first. You're too slow, Jono. Go on, Matt. Give us a
[42:29.760 -> 42:35.280] non-champion to add. And I knew I had to do this now or else it would never happen, but I'm going
[42:35.280 -> 42:42.640] to suggest... Don't do it. ...Joss Verstappen. Oh! If there's one person who could get into Max's head
[42:42.640 -> 42:47.760] and really mess with him, it's gotta be his dad. Think about
[42:47.760 -> 42:53.200] how genius that is. And not to mention, when he was at his peak in the 90s, was he not paired
[42:53.200 -> 43:02.880] with Schumacher? Like, he had that same kind of mentality to go for at all times that we saw young
[43:02.880 -> 43:07.120] Max have. I'm just saying he he was the entertainment on the grid.
[43:07.120 -> 43:08.760] Order, order, order.
[43:08.760 -> 43:10.980] Let's try and keep the cross talk to a minimum.
[43:10.980 -> 43:12.240] Passions are running high.
[43:12.240 -> 43:14.880] So to defend Matt, he was making a little bit of a joke
[43:14.880 -> 43:17.840] about the psychology of the father-son relationship,
[43:17.840 -> 43:21.360] but he was a well-regarded driver by other F1 drivers.
[43:21.360 -> 43:24.040] I think if you talk to other drivers of that time, Steve,
[43:24.040 -> 43:25.560] they would rate him very highly.
[43:25.560 -> 43:27.800] STEVE Well, they're silly, aren't they.
[43:27.800 -> 43:28.800] ALICE Okay.
[43:28.800 -> 43:29.800] There we go.
[43:29.800 -> 43:34.320] JOE And this is important, because if you want
[43:34.320 -> 43:40.560] an entertaining grid, we've never seen father and son on the same grid in F1.
[43:40.560 -> 43:45.080] We've seen it in other sports, we've seen Brundle pair with his son in Le Mans and different
[43:45.080 -> 43:46.880] stuff, but that would be fun!
[43:46.880 -> 43:49.680] And I think you should pair him as teammates.
[43:49.680 -> 43:54.680] And I think you should get all the upgrades to Yos, and Max would probably still beat
[43:54.680 -> 43:58.560] him, but it's like, kinda just to stir up Max a little bit, and then you'd get a really
[43:58.560 -> 44:00.440] entertaining Max out of it.
[44:00.440 -> 44:07.000] Not a bad suggestion, but that's just an insult to, what was it, Jensen, Rothberg,
[44:07.000 -> 44:09.840] and all the others we said were maybes as well.
[44:09.840 -> 44:10.840] He's not making the list.
[44:10.840 -> 44:15.440] Um, oh, by the way, speaking of being inferior to your teammate, I've just found out that
[44:15.440 -> 44:20.960] they, uh, that I'm going to be guest, uh, guest appearing in a new karting series, and
[44:20.960 -> 44:23.440] guess who my teammate's gonna be.
[44:23.440 -> 44:25.700] And imagine, like, the worst possible person you know
[44:25.700 -> 44:28.780] who would be your karting teammate.
[44:28.780 -> 44:29.940] Lucas Degrassi.
[44:29.940 -> 44:32.060] Brad Philpot is gonna be my teammate.
[44:32.060 -> 44:32.900] So I'm gonna have-
[44:32.900 -> 44:34.180] Okay, that's almost as bad.
[44:34.180 -> 44:36.380] I'm gonna look so awful against him.
[44:36.380 -> 44:37.860] We're gonna have exactly the same equipment
[44:37.860 -> 44:40.460] in an owner driver series.
[44:40.460 -> 44:43.240] You will get to see quite a lot of footage of this as well.
[44:43.240 -> 44:44.460] So we'll make sure that gets to you.
[44:44.460 -> 44:46.960] That's gonna be a little bit later in the season.
[44:46.960 -> 44:49.120] So I will know full well what it's like
[44:49.120 -> 44:52.240] to be the likes of Brundle and Verstappen.
[44:52.240 -> 44:54.880] Just slip him a Mickey Finn before the race starts.
[44:54.880 -> 44:56.960] There's nothing that will stop him winning.
[44:56.960 -> 44:59.360] I am going to have to stick a knife in his tires.
[44:59.360 -> 45:00.520] Anyway, right.
[45:00.520 -> 45:04.160] So who was your suggestion, Jono, for your non-champ?
[45:04.160 -> 45:08.480] One of my favorite drivers growing up, Juan Pablo Montoya, and there's no question,
[45:08.480 -> 45:15.360] I want the Montoya who is still fresh into F1 and has still had a little bit of a dusting of
[45:15.360 -> 45:21.440] the politics that's annoyed him, but still got the grit and the passion to want to race in F1.
[45:21.440 -> 45:27.280] Give me an 0-2 Juan Pablo over anyone else. And people in the Slack chat were
[45:27.280 -> 45:30.960] saying, you know what, with this driver, you get these entertaining radio messages. You get that
[45:30.960 -> 45:36.400] with Montoya. You get great on-track action. A fast driver, sticks up for himself. Hey,
[45:36.400 -> 45:40.720] if you want enforcers, I think he's almost better than Nico Rosberg at enforcing.
[45:41.280 -> 45:44.640] Explain the term enforcer, because that's a common term in things like ice hockey.
[45:45.000 -> 45:46.000] Yes. So enforcer is basically a driver on the rac enforcer, because that's a common term in things like ice hockey. Yes.
[45:46.000 -> 45:49.720] So, enforcer is basically a driver on the racetrack who's going to give it to other
[45:49.720 -> 45:54.440] people, you know, who's going to be sort of a bully or a bruiser or somebody who can take
[45:54.440 -> 45:57.000] it to the world championship drivers that we've picked.
[45:57.000 -> 46:01.840] If we want to watch a great fantasy 21st century grid, we want somebody who's going to make
[46:01.840 -> 46:05.080] it entertaining, and we don't want somebody to drive off into the distance and
[46:05.080 -> 46:08.280] dominate races. We want to see wheel to wheel competition.
[46:08.280 -> 46:12.040] We want to see press conference drama, drivers who are funny
[46:12.040 -> 46:14.800] in the paddock. He had a mix of everything, you know, he was
[46:14.800 -> 46:16.400] really blunt. And I loved it.
[46:16.400 -> 46:18.000] One of the best drivers ever in the sport.
[46:18.040 -> 46:20.720] Well, we'll go to Matt next, but I think that the two standouts,
[46:20.920 -> 46:23.000] because he's right, Jono, is like, if you look at a highlights
[46:23.000 -> 46:30.400] reel of Montoya, it is him crashing into top drivers. So, like, you know, there was quite a few clashes with
[46:30.400 -> 46:36.720] Schumacher, but then in the against camp, he didn't actually look that good against
[46:36.720 -> 46:40.280] Ralph Schumacher all the time. So where do you stand, Matt?
[46:40.280 -> 46:46.040] Well, I gotta say, I do find Montoya to be a highly entertaining driver to watch.
[46:46.040 -> 46:50.720] He's very quick, he's very talented, but my personal plea would be, can we have the Montoya
[46:50.720 -> 46:52.760] that drives into the jet dryer, please?
[46:52.760 -> 46:54.760] Because oh my, that was so much fun.
[46:54.760 -> 46:55.760] Explain.
[46:55.760 -> 46:58.840] He was doing, was it a NASCAR race?
[46:58.840 -> 46:59.840] Oh, IndyCar.
[46:59.840 -> 47:00.840] IndyCar, was it?
[47:00.840 -> 47:04.480] It were IndyCar, and they have these jet dryers, big, huge.
[47:04.480 -> 47:05.080] They come out and they basically have a jet engine, and they have these jet dryers, big huge, they come out and they
[47:05.080 -> 47:08.320] basically have a jet engine, they're full of jet fuel and they use them to drive the
[47:08.320 -> 47:13.440] track because, you know, they believe in technology and IndyCar and NASCAR, unlike certain other
[47:13.440 -> 47:15.680] sports I can mention right now.
[47:15.680 -> 47:18.960] And he just, I don't know, got distracted on the radio or whatever, drove right in the
[47:18.960 -> 47:22.320] back of it and we had this massive fireball.
[47:22.320 -> 47:24.920] It was the coolest thing ever, because nobody really got hurt.
[47:24.920 -> 47:25.360] Okay, at the moment, I think Steve, you might have to be a bit of a decider on where we in this massive fireball. It was the coolest thing ever because nobody really got hurt.
[47:25.360 -> 47:26.880] Okay, at the moment, I think Steve,
[47:26.880 -> 47:28.680] you might have to be a bit of a decider
[47:28.680 -> 47:29.960] on where we put Montoya.
[47:31.400 -> 47:34.480] I mean, Montoya should go in as far as I'm concerned
[47:34.480 -> 47:36.400] for the all the reasons you've said.
[47:36.400 -> 47:39.600] I always thought that he was someone who gave it,
[47:39.600 -> 47:42.400] you know, 10 out of 10 every time he got into a car
[47:42.400 -> 47:43.240] and went to it.
[47:43.240 -> 47:46.840] Yes, he crashed into a few other people along the way, but that was only because he was
[47:46.920 -> 47:49.000] trying to, you know, wring everything out of it.
[47:50.600 -> 47:57.480] Again, I think he got fed up with the organisation of F1, and that's what made him leave and
[47:57.480 -> 47:58.400] go to America.
[47:58.520 -> 48:01.120] And he did fairly well for quite a few years in America.
[48:01.280 -> 48:03.080] It's not because he wasn't a good driver.
[48:03.080 -> 48:08.380] I think he just got the screaming abdabs with the way the sport was run.
[48:08.380 -> 48:12.480] And some people are arguing that if you're gonna take Montoya, you have to take Ralf
[48:12.480 -> 48:14.820] Schumacher, can we not do that rule, please?
[48:14.820 -> 48:18.460] I don't want Ralf Schumacher on this grid, I want one Schumacher max, and that's gonna
[48:18.460 -> 48:19.460] be Michael.
[48:19.460 -> 48:24.860] I'm sorry to say, but yes, Ralf could take it to Juan Pablo, but who's the most entertaining
[48:24.860 -> 48:25.040] of the two? There's no question about it to Juan Pablo, but who's the most entertaining of
[48:25.040 -> 48:28.080] the two? There's no question about it, Juan Pablo and Montoya.
[48:28.080 -> 48:34.120] Sure, but if you look at the results, Ralph has the results. If you look at the number
[48:34.120 -> 48:39.000] of podiums, and you've got to look at these results to try and figure out who is actually
[48:39.000 -> 48:47.000] going to make the list, Ralph has the numbers and Montoya doesn't. Do you know what? That is a really good point.
[48:47.000 -> 48:50.240] So for me, Montoya was in until that.
[48:50.240 -> 48:55.560] So for me, Ralph Schumacher takes Montoya out of the definites at the top and puts him
[48:55.560 -> 48:56.560] down below Villeneuve.
[48:56.560 -> 48:58.480] Because I'm not having Ralph Schumacher in there.
[48:58.480 -> 49:03.000] Ralph Schumacher does not make the top 20 drivers of the 21st century.
[49:03.000 -> 49:04.000] It just doesn't happen.
[49:04.000 -> 49:05.980] Everyone ruined it. Yeah, everyone did ruin it, yeah.
[49:05.980 -> 49:07.540] But it's about more, it's the entertainment.
[49:07.540 -> 49:13.180] I'm sorry, Montoya, the reason people, the reason Jono doesn't want Schumacher in is
[49:13.180 -> 49:16.700] because Montoya was an entertaining driver to watch.
[49:16.700 -> 49:19.300] Schumacher might have gotten results, and yeah, that's fine if I'm running a team and
[49:19.300 -> 49:25.120] I'm a team principal, but he was not that same kind of entertaining to watch. Quick one.
[49:25.120 -> 49:27.440] ALICE And here's the thing, right, Montoya is,
[49:27.440 -> 49:31.040] well, fair to say, he's one of my favourite drivers growing up as a kid.
[49:31.040 -> 49:36.280] I would flick on races that I would never watch before, just to watch Juan Pablo Montoya.
[49:36.280 -> 49:41.040] I would flick on NASCAR, I'd watch IndyCar in 2014 when he joined in 2014, just to watch
[49:41.040 -> 49:42.040] Juan Pablo.
[49:42.040 -> 49:43.720] That's the effect he has on people.
[49:43.720 -> 49:49.800] JUSTIN Yeah, but, at the moment he is sitting, he's the driver at risk, I would say at the moment,
[49:49.800 -> 49:51.360] because he's probably sitting 11th.
[49:51.360 -> 49:54.880] Okay, Steve, do you want to nominate a non-champion?
[49:54.880 -> 50:00.000] Well, it's got to happen at some stage.
[50:00.000 -> 50:07.600] And I've got a toss up here of, well, no, I have to be put in pre-accident kibitza first.
[50:07.600 -> 50:10.920] Okay, I think you're gonna get a lot of support here.
[50:10.920 -> 50:12.200] I'd be a fine driver before that.
[50:12.200 -> 50:19.560] You're gonna get a lot of support because you have to completely disregard the comeback,
[50:19.560 -> 50:23.800] which I feel was ill-advised and was never really going to go anywhere.
[50:23.800 -> 50:24.800] Yes, I do too.
[50:24.800 -> 50:25.880] But I think what was underestimated
[50:25.880 -> 50:34.000] with his comeback was the amount of Polish support he had. Like, obviously there was
[50:34.000 -> 50:39.640] a lot of Polish people in the mid-2000s that came to the UK to work. And if you speak to
[50:39.640 -> 50:47.280] any of them, man, they were gunning for Robert Kubica. And so that support probably is what got him
[50:47.280 -> 50:53.760] in to what probably shouldn't have been a comeback. But pre-accident, if you look back
[50:53.760 -> 50:58.040] at, I think it's the 2008 season, isn't it, where you really see what he did in a midfield
[50:58.040 -> 50:59.280] car?
[50:59.280 -> 51:04.280] Not only that, Spanners, but in 2010 and in the Renault, he was, in my opinion, more impressive
[51:04.280 -> 51:05.120] than 2008. He won a race in 2008, you're right. Like that wasult he was in my opinion more impressive than 2008
[51:05.120 -> 51:08.780] He won a race in 2008 you're right like that was where he was sort of had the most
[51:08.920 -> 51:10.360] Had the best car to win a race
[51:10.360 -> 51:17.240] But his drives in that Renault in 2010 the rumors came out that I'm I think he was Matt if I'm not mistaken was set
[51:17.240 -> 51:19.240] Up for a Ferrari drive potentially
[51:21.560 -> 51:23.400] Yeah, and
[51:23.400 -> 51:31.160] The thing like just to put the finishing touch on this, one, the man had spectacular crashes,
[51:31.160 -> 51:32.160] even in Formula One.
[51:32.160 -> 51:33.160] Everybody remembers Canada, right?
[51:33.160 -> 51:34.160] Oh, yeah, Canada, yeah.
[51:34.160 -> 51:35.160] Unbelievable.
[51:35.160 -> 51:40.600] On top of it, I legitimately—you can go find clips of Lewis Hamilton talking about
[51:40.600 -> 51:51.120] the fact that he thought Kubica was going to be a world champion. So to me, this is probably one of the easiest non-champion picks of the 21st century we
[51:51.120 -> 51:52.120] could make.
[51:52.120 -> 51:53.120] Alright.
[51:53.120 -> 51:54.160] Yeah, he's definitely in.
[51:54.160 -> 51:55.160] Gotta be.
[51:55.160 -> 51:56.160] Okay, he's in.
[51:56.160 -> 51:57.160] I like it.
[51:57.160 -> 52:01.760] Okay, so I'm going to make a nomination here, and I don't think I'm going to find much support,
[52:01.760 -> 52:05.440] and I'm not really sure why I feel so strongly about it. I think it's going to
[52:05.440 -> 52:12.160] be very specifically because I'm 43 but Jean Alessi was one of my very favorites and I really enjoyed
[52:12.160 -> 52:19.360] him you know driving around in his Ferrari and so many times like that Ferrari was just a tank
[52:19.360 -> 52:24.080] that him and Gerhard Berger were driving around in. It was it looked like the most understeering
[52:24.080 -> 52:28.680] car in the world at times. I think it was a good deal heavier than a lot of the other cars.
[52:28.680 -> 52:34.400] The engine would explode spectacularly, so that was always good. And he will be a driver
[52:34.400 -> 52:37.920] here. He's a Grand Prix winner. Okay, so if we're looking at any of the names on here
[52:37.920 -> 52:42.240] that aren't a Grand Prix winner, I'm going to nominate Alési above it. But he came to
[52:42.240 -> 52:45.440] life in the rain. He came to life in different strategic
[52:45.440 -> 52:49.920] situations. And I'm struggling to like, think of too many examples, because I was about
[52:49.920 -> 52:52.640] whatever, 12, 13.
[52:52.640 -> 52:57.240] But if this is about entertaining, you've just chosen one of the most boring drivers
[52:57.240 -> 52:59.040] to ever get in a car.
[52:59.040 -> 53:02.840] No, no. Yeah, to talk to, maybe. But the thing is, have you seen how, now he looks like Arnold
[53:02.840 -> 53:03.840] Schwarzenegger.
[53:03.840 -> 53:05.680] No, but I'm talking about racing.
[53:05.680 -> 53:09.000] I mean, God, he was boring in the car and out of it.
[53:09.000 -> 53:13.040] Okay, but in the rain, the odd lazy drive in the rain, he was a proper one of those
[53:13.040 -> 53:14.440] that came to life.
[53:14.440 -> 53:16.160] Well, perhaps.
[53:16.160 -> 53:18.760] But how many rain races did we have during that period?
[53:18.760 -> 53:22.680] Well, there wasn't many races altogether, but go on then, Matt, you shoot me down as
[53:22.680 -> 53:23.680] well.
[53:23.680 -> 53:24.800] No, I'm not going to shoot you down.
[53:24.800 -> 53:26.320] I'm just going to say, oh, if we're going to talk about
[53:26.320 -> 53:30.560] Grand Prix winners who have done well in the wet, then you're bringing up Alcon again,
[53:30.560 -> 53:31.920] as far as I'm concerned.
[53:31.920 -> 53:33.440] You're going to keep doing it. All right.
[53:33.440 -> 53:34.400] I am going to keep doing it.
[53:34.400 -> 53:35.760] You're going to ruin the show.
[53:35.760 -> 53:39.680] He's my pick for the person to drive Alonso absolutely bats.
[53:39.680 -> 53:40.240] All right.
[53:40.240 -> 53:46.200] Because he did that, you have to admit. Alonso completely lost his mind.
[53:46.200 -> 53:48.520] Order, order, order, order.
[53:48.520 -> 53:50.720] We are talking about John Elacy in the 90s.
[53:50.720 -> 53:52.280] I know, sorry, I just had to make that little point.
[53:52.280 -> 53:55.940] John Elacy and Gerhard Berger were stalwarts of their era, though.
[53:55.940 -> 53:58.180] They were the proper... and they weren't even journeymen.
[53:58.180 -> 54:04.040] They were just solid drivers, I think in a time where there wasn't the top 10 scoring
[54:04.040 -> 54:07.040] points, there wasn't really random
[54:07.040 -> 54:11.680] results. And if you didn't win the, you know, the Panis race in Monaco, maybe you didn't get a real
[54:11.680 -> 54:17.520] opportunity to kind of regularly kind of pop up there. I just, you know, for overall his career,
[54:17.520 -> 54:22.160] I think he carved out a great career. I still, I just think he's one of the best drivers in F1.
[54:22.160 -> 54:25.200] Oh, can we end the John Alaci chat please?
[54:25.200 -> 54:31.440] Okay, I wanted to bring up Berger. Am I wrong in thinking that Berger was not the best prankster
[54:31.440 -> 54:36.320] Formula One has ever seen or was that somebody else? It's either Berger or Barrichello, one of
[54:36.320 -> 54:42.800] the two, yeah. So Ryan Heslin says Alaci was great in the Tyrrell after that far too inconsistent,
[54:42.800 -> 54:45.220] but Matt did we not say, at his peak, so
[54:45.220 -> 54:47.080] cannot that be individual races?
[54:47.080 -> 54:48.080] Okay, fine.
[54:48.080 -> 54:50.920] Are we going back to what, 1926 or something?
[54:50.920 -> 54:52.680] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.
[54:52.680 -> 54:55.480] We're Spanish, you're getting hammered by Steve.
[54:55.480 -> 54:59.040] Okay, I knew that wasn't going to make it. I just happened to... Do you know what, the
[54:59.040 -> 55:02.800] random people that you're fans of at various eras that you wouldn't, you know, defend now,
[55:02.800 -> 55:05.600] like Riccardo Patrese, John Alessi,
[55:05.600 -> 55:07.200] two of my favourite 90s drivers.
[55:07.200 -> 55:10.280] Alright then, Matt, nominate a driver for me.
[55:10.280 -> 55:15.440] Well, I was actually, Kubitoo was my one very, very serious.
[55:15.440 -> 55:22.320] But if I'm going with my theory of you need to nominate the nemesis of Alonso, I would
[55:22.320 -> 55:26.800] make a genuine argument for Akoncon based on the following four data
[55:26.800 -> 55:27.800] points.
[55:27.800 -> 55:29.840] You can be angry with me if you want.
[55:29.840 -> 55:31.720] I am angry with you.
[55:31.720 -> 55:32.720] This is my...
[55:32.720 -> 55:33.720] You won a race.
[55:33.720 -> 55:34.720] Hang on.
[55:34.720 -> 55:35.720] I'm not disappointed.
[55:35.720 -> 55:36.720] I'm angry.
[55:36.720 -> 55:41.440] And you have to admit, from his time with Perez and his time with Alonso, with the right
[55:41.440 -> 55:44.920] teammate, he's very, very, very entertaining.
[55:44.920 -> 55:45.560] So I'm making this
[55:45.560 -> 55:50.680] more on an entertainment angle, but he does have some results to back it up.
[55:50.680 -> 55:54.280] Okay, well let's see if anyone agrees with you. So I would say, like, I'm not
[55:54.280 -> 55:58.680] nominating any of those people apart from Alonso that he had those run-ins
[55:58.680 -> 56:03.160] with. So, like, Perez is firmly in the journeyman camp, and I am a big Perez fan,
[56:03.160 -> 56:07.120] but he's not making the top 20 of the 21st century.
[56:07.120 -> 56:11.680] And to my mind, neither is Ocon, neither is Hulkenberg, neither is Magnussen, neither
[56:11.680 -> 56:12.680] is Grosjean.
[56:12.680 -> 56:16.080] I think Ocon is firmly in that bracket.
[56:16.080 -> 56:18.320] Jono, can you support Matt?
[56:18.320 -> 56:19.480] No, I can't.
[56:19.480 -> 56:22.720] He's wasted everyone's time.
[56:22.720 -> 56:26.640] If I'm going to take a young driver from the last, you know, five years, basically,
[56:26.640 -> 56:30.160] around that range, I'm going to take Norris, Leclerc...
[56:30.160 -> 56:31.600] Well, that's it.
[56:31.600 -> 56:34.680] I'm going to take those two over Ocon, and by the time we end this list, there's not
[56:34.680 -> 56:36.520] going to be room for Esteban Ocon.
[56:36.520 -> 56:42.560] If he's a reserve driver on the best 21st century list, maybe we do take him.
[56:42.560 -> 56:46.640] So maybe we now create a reserve driver's list, and then have him in the... Maybe, maybe, maybe. Oh, maybe we do take it. So maybe we now create a reserve driver's list and then have him in the,
[56:47.360 -> 56:48.600] Oh, maybe he does make it.
[56:48.640 -> 56:52.000] So what I will say, Matt, is that you made a better case for Ocon than I did for a
[56:52.000 -> 56:54.600] Lacey, but I think we're both losers here.
[56:54.960 -> 56:57.480] Jono, whilst you mentioned that, oh go on, sorry, Steve.
[56:57.520 -> 56:58.020] Yeah.
[56:58.320 -> 57:01.240] I was going to say, if you're going to put Ocon in there, well, then Ricardo's our
[57:01.240 -> 57:03.320] next person we've got to talk about.
[57:03.760 -> 57:06.160] He's won more races, got more podiums.
[57:06.160 -> 57:09.840] I will say, look, yeah, he's a race winner, a multiple race winner.
[57:09.840 -> 57:15.600] He set the world on light somewhat and became a superstar in Formula 1,
[57:15.600 -> 57:18.240] and then quickly fizzled.
[57:18.240 -> 57:21.360] And he is one of the most likeable, one of the most marketable,
[57:21.360 -> 57:23.520] one of the funniest, like coolest.
[57:23.520 -> 57:26.160] Like when you talk about like the James Hunts of the most marketable, one of the funniest, like coolest, that when you talk about like the James Hunts
[57:26.160 -> 57:30.320] of the world, like the full-on glamor F1 drivers,
[57:30.320 -> 57:31.720] Ricciardo is up there.
[57:31.720 -> 57:36.020] He's almost quintessentially an iconic F1 driver.
[57:36.020 -> 57:37.200] But let's talk about it now.
[57:37.200 -> 57:41.440] Does Ricciardo get anywhere near this top 20?
[57:41.440 -> 57:42.280] I think he does.
[57:42.280 -> 57:43.920] Go on then, really Steve?
[57:43.920 -> 57:45.080] Okay, I'm gonna argue, I'm gonna be
[57:45.080 -> 57:51.280] against but make the case. Oh, well he's won enough races and had enough podiums and if
[57:51.280 -> 57:55.960] we're gonna throw in the entertainment value he is the most entertaining driver we've had
[57:55.960 -> 58:03.600] on the grid for the last seven or eight years without a doubt. I think the last four years,
[58:03.600 -> 58:06.480] he's two years at Renault or Alpine, which if you want to call it...
[58:06.480 -> 58:08.880] At Renault he looked fine.
[58:08.880 -> 58:22.480] I think history will show that the bad period in his driving, in his career, wasn't necessarily his fault, if you know what I mean.
[58:22.480 -> 58:25.720] I think that he didn't like the team very
[58:25.720 -> 58:31.840] much. The team didn't support him very well. And the car was a particular dog to drive.
[58:31.840 -> 58:37.800] And yes, Lando had figured out how to drive it slightly better. Lando's only ever driven
[58:37.800 -> 58:42.240] one car. Let's put Lando in another make of car and see how he goes. I reckon he'll fall
[58:42.240 -> 58:43.640] flat in his face.
[58:43.640 -> 58:50.120] Jono. Riccardo has now driven three different sorts of cars. He's now jumped back into, jumped
[58:50.120 -> 58:55.240] back into the AlphaTauri, Taurarossa, whatever you want to call it. And he did a fairly good
[58:55.240 -> 59:01.200] job last weekend. I think that he's back on the way up. I think he's in the first time
[59:01.200 -> 59:02.200] out. Yeah.
[59:02.200 -> 59:03.200] Jono.
[59:03.200 -> 59:09.960] First time out. I think, I think that he is, you know, perhaps not in the top 10, but I think he's in the bottom 10.
[59:10.160 -> 59:10.600] Jono.
[59:11.560 -> 59:14.200] So we've got 13 drivers at the moment.
[59:14.520 -> 59:23.400] Ricardo is no question going to make this list, because if you're going to take Ricardo, then you've got LeClerc, Norris, you've got George Russell, I'm probably forgetting names.
[59:23.400 -> 59:28.040] We've still got a lot of midfield names to cover here. So, your grid's almost full. The
[59:28.040 -> 59:34.400] reason Ricciardo makes it is because everyone has this recency bias over his McLaren years,
[59:34.400 -> 59:37.960] where if you look back on it in 20 years time, you're going to realise it was the car and
[59:37.960 -> 59:41.120] the team that didn't suit Danny Rick, and there's no question why he's jumped into an
[59:41.120 -> 59:44.880] AlphaTauri and shown he's still got it. Yes, Yuki had a long pit stop and all that, we
[59:44.880 -> 59:47.040] won't go into the race review, which was our last podcast, which
[59:47.040 -> 59:54.040] you can still listen to. But he's still got it, and he's always had it. And to me, he's
[59:54.040 -> 59:59.360] a driver who could take it to a four-time world champion who forced him out of Red Bull.
[59:59.360 -> 01:00:05.560] That's how good Daniel Ricciardo was. Jumped into a new era of car, and essentially single-handedly forced
[01:00:05.560 -> 01:00:10.520] Vettel out of the team through his performances. Matched it with your young Max Verstappen,
[01:00:10.520 -> 01:00:13.620] who is by far one of the greatest drivers ever to have done our sport, and he's still
[01:00:13.620 -> 01:00:19.080] only won two championships. Gonna be three soon. So, he's gonna have to go in the maybe
[01:00:19.080 -> 01:00:22.520] pile, because you guys, and I'm gonna blame all three of you, had to unfortunately put
[01:00:22.520 -> 01:00:26.720] Button, Rosberg, and all these great drivers in our maybe pile, but Ricciardo's gonna eventually make the list.
[01:00:26.720 -> 01:00:30.640] So I've put Ricciardo above Kimi, but below Rosberg and Button.
[01:00:30.640 -> 01:00:32.000] That's where I'm putting them at the minute.
[01:00:32.000 -> 01:00:33.000] Matt?
[01:00:33.000 -> 01:00:36.760] Well, I would put Rosberg above Ricciardo, but Ricciardo above the rest, for the very
[01:00:36.760 -> 01:00:39.200] simple reasons that Jono enumerates.
[01:00:39.200 -> 01:00:46.640] I mean, he basically chased Vettel out, he ran Verstappen to a draw, he barely beat Ocon when Ocon came
[01:00:46.640 -> 01:00:47.640] back after a year.
[01:00:47.640 -> 01:00:50.440] I mean, you know, it's quite the record he's compiled.
[01:00:50.440 -> 01:00:56.720] Can I just quickly add, our listeners can't see the list we have at the moment, but Spanners
[01:00:56.720 -> 01:00:57.720] has Montoya last.
[01:00:57.720 -> 01:01:01.480] Can I just request him to be put in the definites, if you don't mind?
[01:01:01.480 -> 01:01:03.240] No, because of Schumacher.
[01:01:03.240 -> 01:01:04.440] So I think he's still a maybe.
[01:01:04.440 -> 01:01:05.480] I think the Ralph Schumacher argument kind I think he's still a maybe. I think the
[01:01:05.480 -> 01:01:09.640] Ralph Schumacher argument kind of ruined it. In case you get him. Yes. It ruined it. If
[01:01:09.640 -> 01:01:13.920] people are saying like, we have to include Schumacher if Montoy goes in. Okay, Steve,
[01:01:13.920 -> 01:01:18.680] do you want to suggest a driver for us? Well, I'm probably going to be shot down for being
[01:01:18.680 -> 01:01:28.000] too partisan here, but Webber's got to come into it somewhere. Just because I'm a civilian and... Look, hey, Steve, we've all taken a turn at being completely wrong.
[01:01:28.000 -> 01:01:30.000] So it is your turn.
[01:01:30.000 -> 01:01:35.000] If you actually look at the numbers, he's won one more race than Ricciardo,
[01:01:35.000 -> 01:01:38.000] and won a bucket load more podiums than Ricciardo.
[01:01:38.000 -> 01:01:43.000] But I think when it comes down to pure racing aggression and whatever,
[01:01:43.000 -> 01:01:45.360] I think Ricciardo has it above Webber, but still,
[01:01:45.360 -> 01:01:50.800] Webber's won a damn lot of races and got 42 podiums. That's not bad.
[01:01:50.800 -> 01:01:55.920] So I don't think Webber should be in here, but to have this conversation with you,
[01:01:55.920 -> 01:02:01.120] when he came in, wasn't he relatively old when he came into F1, even compared to his peers?
[01:02:02.400 -> 01:02:04.800] He was 23 or 22 or 23.
[01:02:04.800 -> 01:02:08.000] So he came in with Minardi and he scored that, didn't he come in with... He was 23 or 22 or 23. Oh, okay, okay. So he came in with Menardi and I think, and he scored that...
[01:02:08.000 -> 01:02:10.000] Didn't he still score a point when it was top six?
[01:02:10.000 -> 01:02:14.000] It was, no, you're right. He was a 26-year-old rookie.
[01:02:14.000 -> 01:02:15.000] Ah, there we go.
[01:02:15.000 -> 01:02:17.000] It wasn't Damon Hill's 70-year-old rookie.
[01:02:17.000 -> 01:02:21.000] But at the time that was old. And he scored that point with Menardi, I think.
[01:02:21.000 -> 01:02:23.000] A fifth place. He got a fifth place.
[01:02:23.000 -> 01:02:29.160] Yeah, and I think he did enough, and then he was with Jaguar wasn't he at one point and then
[01:02:29.160 -> 01:02:33.360] when Jaguar became Red Bull he kind of they kind of inherited him a little bit
[01:02:33.360 -> 01:02:39.400] but for that ultimate kind of dream story of someone coming in with just a
[01:02:39.400 -> 01:02:43.920] sniff of a chance doing just enough at the right time to put yourself in the
[01:02:43.920 -> 01:02:45.120] right place at the right time the Mark Web in the right place at the right time.
[01:02:45.120 -> 01:02:50.880] The Mark Webber story is a good story. Like, that's a movie. I think Mark Webber's career is a movie.
[01:02:51.440 -> 01:02:59.760] Matt? Okay, well, I hate to disappoint all of you, but the only reason, the only reason
[01:02:59.760 -> 01:03:06.880] Webber isn't a world champion right now is because Red Bull played Pirelli to
[01:03:06.880 -> 01:03:12.360] change the tire specification. Those wobbly sidewall tires that ruined their
[01:03:12.360 -> 01:03:18.800] diffuser. Weber was beating the pants off of Vettel and there was no way Vettel
[01:03:18.800 -> 01:03:22.320] could drive it as well as Weber did. It was weird. Like I remember seeing this
[01:03:22.320 -> 01:03:27.200] and this is before I was like really into the technical side of, but I was like, wow, man, those tires.
[01:03:27.200 -> 01:03:30.720] And then Silverstone happened, and then went back to the old tires, and suddenly Vettel
[01:03:30.720 -> 01:03:32.200] wins everything again.
[01:03:32.200 -> 01:03:37.840] I just, I'm saying right now, not bad for a number two driver, plus he's entertaining.
[01:03:37.840 -> 01:03:38.840] I want him on the grid.
[01:03:38.840 -> 01:03:39.840] Ooh.
[01:03:39.840 -> 01:03:40.840] All right.
[01:03:40.840 -> 01:03:41.840] That's two.
[01:03:41.840 -> 01:03:42.840] I'm surprised that there's two.
[01:03:42.840 -> 01:03:44.100] Okay, go on.
[01:03:44.100 -> 01:03:49.360] I'm going to win this discussion right now through these next two points. Number one is,
[01:03:49.360 -> 01:03:55.920] let's be for real, Sebastian Vettel had what felt like 50,000 mechanical retirements in 2010,
[01:03:55.920 -> 01:03:59.600] regardless of what Mark Webber does in the Bridgestone era, was never going to beat
[01:03:59.600 -> 01:04:05.840] Sebastian Vettel on the racetrack. And he never did, for a reason, in terms of World Championship, is what I'm talking about here.
[01:04:05.840 -> 01:04:12.560] The second point is, we need to- anybody who is considered, mentally, a number two driver,
[01:04:12.560 -> 01:04:13.840] cannot make this list.
[01:04:13.840 -> 01:04:14.840] There's no way.
[01:04:14.840 -> 01:04:18.640] No Mark Webber, no Rubens Barrichello, no Valtteri Bottas.
[01:04:18.640 -> 01:04:23.040] Unfortunately, we're ruling out all three of those, cause that is just not what a 21st
[01:04:23.040 -> 01:04:24.040] century grid is.
[01:04:24.040 -> 01:04:26.960] There's no way a number two driver can make it.
[01:04:26.960 -> 01:04:30.440] JUSTIN It does feel like Weber accepted that role
[01:04:30.440 -> 01:04:31.440] eventually.
[01:04:31.440 -> 01:04:34.440] Controversially, if you listen to what he said.
[01:04:34.440 -> 01:04:35.440] I don't think so.
[01:04:35.440 -> 01:04:36.440] He left the sport.
[01:04:36.440 -> 01:04:37.440] Well, 2010?
[01:04:37.440 -> 01:04:39.120] Well, 2020 he was very angry.
[01:04:39.120 -> 01:04:44.840] No, he, in 2013 he was still going for a championship, and you saw that in Malaysia, and as soon
[01:04:44.840 -> 01:04:49.120] as Malaysia happened, he had that Porsche deal lined up straight away.
[01:04:49.120 -> 01:04:51.560] That was the glass of water in the press conference.
[01:04:51.560 -> 01:04:55.100] If we're going to go there, then Ricardo has to go off because he basically walked away
[01:04:55.100 -> 01:04:57.320] from being called that at Red Bull.
[01:04:57.320 -> 01:04:58.320] But that's the point.
[01:04:58.320 -> 01:04:59.320] He basically walked-
[01:04:59.320 -> 01:05:00.320] That's the point right there, Trump.
[01:05:00.320 -> 01:05:01.320] Where was-
[01:05:01.320 -> 01:05:04.560] He's not considered the number two driver because he walked away from it.
[01:05:04.560 -> 01:05:05.960] Order, order, order.
[01:05:05.960 -> 01:05:06.960] Right, OK, OK.
[01:05:06.960 -> 01:05:09.960] And Ricciardo didn't leave the sport, he just changed teams.
[01:05:09.960 -> 01:05:10.960] He just changed teams.
[01:05:10.960 -> 01:05:16.080] So, look, the Australians have strong opinions on Webber and Ricciardo.
[01:05:16.080 -> 01:05:17.080] Who knew?
[01:05:17.080 -> 01:05:18.080] Who could have predicted?
[01:05:18.080 -> 01:05:20.040] Who could possibly have predicted?
[01:05:20.040 -> 01:05:23.240] Next up, Scott Speed and Logan Sargent.
[01:05:23.240 -> 01:05:24.240] No, no, no, I'm only joking.
[01:05:24.240 -> 01:05:25.240] I'm only joking. I'm only joking.
[01:05:25.240 -> 01:05:30.280] I'll tell you what, one of the most controversial ones I think that we will have is Felipe Massa.
[01:05:30.280 -> 01:05:33.200] Does anyone make the case for Massa making this top 20?
[01:05:33.200 -> 01:05:34.880] Go on then, Matt.
[01:05:34.880 -> 01:05:36.800] He was a world champion for like 32 seconds.
[01:05:36.800 -> 01:05:37.800] Oh no, he wasn't.
[01:05:37.800 -> 01:05:39.240] That's the dumbest argument in the world.
[01:05:39.240 -> 01:05:42.200] I'm sorry, Hamilton needs somebody to hit.
[01:05:42.200 -> 01:05:47.000] Hamilton needs somebody to hit. Besides Max. He needs someone to hit besides Max.
[01:05:47.000 -> 01:05:48.600] And I think Massa could be that driver.
[01:05:48.600 -> 01:05:54.800] Okay, so to be fair, Hamilton hit Massa in like 2009, in 17 of the 17 races.
[01:05:54.800 -> 01:05:58.600] But look, Massa wasn't world champion for any amount of time.
[01:05:58.600 -> 01:06:07.200] He briefly was statistically like on path to win, and all the Glock stuff is garbage. Anyone who thinks that
[01:06:07.200 -> 01:06:12.640] Glock handed Hamilton the championship, look at the onboards of both the Toyota drivers in the
[01:06:12.640 -> 01:06:19.680] final laps of the Brazilian Grand Prix, and it's clear as day. So Massa obviously had that accident
[01:06:19.680 -> 01:06:25.160] where he had that piece of gearing or whatever go to his helmet. But before that, people were
[01:06:25.160 -> 01:06:30.500] talking about him in very grand terms. So even Schumacher was saying, oh, I'm going
[01:06:30.500 -> 01:06:37.440] to retire so that Massa can be champion. I still feel like when you look at the relative
[01:06:37.440 -> 01:06:46.480] careers of Kimi Raikkonen and Felipe Massa compared to say, Lewis Lewis Hamilton and you look at how close it was in 2008, the conclusion
[01:06:46.480 -> 01:06:53.520] from that is that that Ferrari 2008 car was the greatest F1 car of all time to bring Maser
[01:06:53.520 -> 01:06:59.760] that close. It should not have been that close. That might be harsh but I don't see Maser.
[01:06:59.760 -> 01:07:04.080] Nothing at the time made me think, oh yeah, Maser's going to be considered one of the
[01:07:04.080 -> 01:07:05.200] all-time greats in F1.
[01:07:05.760 -> 01:07:11.760] I'd have to agree with you. I mean, he was there forever and raced many races and has lots of stats,
[01:07:12.720 -> 01:07:16.000] but there was just nothing inspiring about him. There was nothing that
[01:07:16.960 -> 01:07:22.800] made him stand out above the crowd as being, you know, a potential champion, I don't think.
[01:07:23.360 -> 01:07:29.720] All right, so I'll, I was going to say, I'll add to that in the sense that I totally agree with Spanners and
[01:07:29.720 -> 01:07:35.300] Ust as well, Steve, is like, he had multiple chances to win a world championship, regardless
[01:07:35.300 -> 01:07:38.600] of the unfortunate accident he had in 2009.
[01:07:38.600 -> 01:07:43.600] And then Alonso kind of... and he's the dark horse that ruins Felipe Massa.
[01:07:43.600 -> 01:07:45.520] Alonso comes in and proves the difference
[01:07:45.520 -> 01:07:50.320] between a driver who can make a bad car win a world championship, although ironically
[01:07:50.320 -> 01:07:56.960] he didn't, but you get my point, is that he can contend, and Felipe Massa wasn't there.
[01:07:56.960 -> 01:07:59.440] I think that that's a quick one. Massa out.
[01:07:59.440 -> 01:08:09.840] Massa out, okay. Let's do some quick fire ones, guys. So I'm going to go through some and we'll see if there's any gnashing of teeth over
[01:08:09.840 -> 01:08:11.520] any of these nominations.
[01:08:11.520 -> 01:08:13.420] Okay, Coulthard.
[01:08:13.420 -> 01:08:14.640] Can anyone make the case for Coulthard?
[01:08:14.640 -> 01:08:16.920] I know it's come up a lot in the live chat.
[01:08:16.920 -> 01:08:19.840] For me, that's a no for me.
[01:08:19.840 -> 01:08:25.840] Only what we do is if Matt and I's intangible theory comes in, we want savvy veterans and we want good
[01:08:25.840 -> 01:08:30.400] veterans and people who are just good level-headed. You want the chin, it's a great chin.
[01:08:30.400 -> 01:08:33.120] We want the chin in, here's a maybe just for the chin.
[01:08:33.120 -> 01:08:34.960] Uh Giancarlo- oh go on, sorry.
[01:08:35.680 -> 01:08:38.240] Oh and he survived a plane crash, so you know.
[01:08:38.240 -> 01:08:39.280] Yeah rock solid.
[01:08:39.280 -> 01:08:40.080] Kudos.
[01:08:40.080 -> 01:08:41.920] Like the cheerleader out of Heroes.
[01:08:42.800 -> 01:08:43.440] Bit of a flashback.
[01:08:44.160 -> 01:08:47.000] Giancarlo Fisichella, I think it could have been...
[01:08:47.000 -> 01:08:50.000] I think if Giancarlo Fisichella was a driver now,
[01:08:50.000 -> 01:08:53.000] you might be saying, oh, he's nibbling around the edges.
[01:08:53.000 -> 01:08:56.000] But I don't think anyone's going to make a strong case for that.
[01:08:56.000 -> 01:09:00.000] A lot of the... we've got a lot of journeymen drivers have been suggested.
[01:09:00.000 -> 01:09:03.000] Perez, Hulkenberg, Magnussen...
[01:09:03.000 -> 01:09:04.000] Truly?
[01:09:04.000 -> 01:09:05.000] Huh? Truly. Jarno Trulli. No one's making the case, Magnussen, Trulli. Huh?
[01:09:05.000 -> 01:09:06.000] Trulli.
[01:09:06.000 -> 01:09:07.000] Jarno Trulli.
[01:09:07.000 -> 01:09:08.000] No one's making the case for Jarno Trulli.
[01:09:08.000 -> 01:09:09.000] I don't think he's going to.
[01:09:09.000 -> 01:09:10.000] No.
[01:09:10.000 -> 01:09:11.000] No.
[01:09:11.000 -> 01:09:12.000] Trulli is banned from the sport for life.
[01:09:12.000 -> 01:09:15.920] Can I just throw one thing out there, and this will be very quick, is that Toyota, who
[01:09:15.920 -> 01:09:20.800] spent the most money for the 2010 season and never raced their car, which turned out to
[01:09:20.800 -> 01:09:23.840] be Pirelli's test car, and blah blah blah, there's a whole history to that that people
[01:09:23.840 -> 01:09:28.000] can go and Google after they listen to the podcast. Basically, Jarno Trulli could have
[01:09:28.000 -> 01:09:32.800] been part of Toyota in 2010, which is rumoured to be the quickest car that year that never raced,
[01:09:32.800 -> 01:09:36.080] and he could have been a world champion, and we could have been putting him on this list.
[01:09:37.200 -> 01:09:39.920] He would have driven around in third with the whole field stuck behind him.
[01:09:39.920 -> 01:09:45.760] Yeah, there you go. The Trulli train. There we we go. I wanna put in a cheeky nomination for Johnny Herbert
[01:09:45.760 -> 01:09:49.460] because not only did he go into F1 already
[01:09:49.460 -> 01:09:51.740] with an injury that was limiting him,
[01:09:51.740 -> 01:09:54.380] he was a multiple race winner.
[01:09:54.380 -> 01:09:59.160] And I think he was doing it in an era of great drivers
[01:09:59.160 -> 01:10:00.940] that were considered much higher than him
[01:10:00.940 -> 01:10:03.760] and carved out like a really decent career.
[01:10:03.760 -> 01:10:06.440] I just think Johnny Herbert does not get the love
[01:10:06.440 -> 01:10:08.640] and respect, because when you watched it at the time,
[01:10:08.640 -> 01:10:12.100] his results sort of seemed to come out of nowhere as well.
[01:10:12.100 -> 01:10:14.140] And for me, it's that same kind of feeling I had
[01:10:14.140 -> 01:10:16.400] with Perez where I go, well, where's that wind come from?
[01:10:16.400 -> 01:10:19.400] And, you know, but Johnny Herbert didn't have his time
[01:10:19.400 -> 01:10:22.740] at Red Bull behind Verstappen to make him look a bit silly.
[01:10:22.740 -> 01:10:25.760] So I'm gonna nominate Johnny Herbert if anyone's
[01:10:25.760 -> 01:10:31.280] gonna fight me on that. No, he was really talented, especially, I mean, you see the
[01:10:31.280 -> 01:10:36.480] difference, but kind of like Massa before and after the accident, and it was just, it was really a
[01:10:36.480 -> 01:10:43.520] shame because he was that talented as a driver. All right, okay, do we have any late nominations
[01:10:43.520 -> 01:10:45.120] coming through?
[01:10:45.120 -> 01:10:47.640] People are really fighting for Coulthard, but Jono, what you got?
[01:10:47.640 -> 01:10:51.680] I've got, can we just knock off the young guns that I mentioned before?
[01:10:51.680 -> 01:10:52.680] Yeah, let's do it.
[01:10:52.680 -> 01:10:55.400] I'm talking Charles Leclerc, Lando Norris, George Russell.
[01:10:55.400 -> 01:10:56.400] I want Leclerc in there.
[01:10:56.400 -> 01:10:59.400] Leclerc, I think that's a no-brainer.
[01:10:59.400 -> 01:11:01.760] Don't you dare put Leclerc in there.
[01:11:01.760 -> 01:11:04.340] It's too early in their career for that.
[01:11:04.340 -> 01:11:08.840] Maybe they'll make it in five years' time, but they haven't proven themselves yet.
[01:11:08.840 -> 01:11:09.840] Okay, hang on.
[01:11:09.840 -> 01:11:14.080] So at the moment that is a draw, but you have to admit the old crusties, Jonno, they were
[01:11:14.080 -> 01:11:17.360] more like fervent against than we were fervent for.
[01:11:17.360 -> 01:11:18.360] Yeah.
[01:11:18.360 -> 01:11:19.960] Well, look, I think they've done enough.
[01:11:19.960 -> 01:11:24.600] I personally think like right now, I think George Russell's certainly done enough.
[01:11:24.600 -> 01:11:28.720] The dudes, I mean, yeah, he hasn't been statistically winning races and stuff, but
[01:11:28.720 -> 01:11:30.120] he has yet the car to do it.
[01:11:30.120 -> 01:11:31.960] He's done incredible stuff in the Williams.
[01:11:31.960 -> 01:11:34.200] George Russell goes in there, definitely.
[01:11:34.200 -> 01:11:38.040] And I think you've got to say, Lando Norris is probably more of a maybe, yet.
[01:11:38.040 -> 01:11:39.200] But I think Russell and-
[01:11:39.200 -> 01:11:40.200] Really?
[01:11:40.200 -> 01:11:41.200] Really?
[01:11:41.200 -> 01:11:47.760] I mean, I feel like if you get into Russell, Norris I think has more credibility than Russell
[01:11:47.760 -> 01:11:48.980] does at this point.
[01:11:48.980 -> 01:11:52.480] If you're gonna put Russell in, then why aren't we putting Ock on it, who's at least won an
[01:11:52.480 -> 01:11:53.480] actual race?
[01:11:53.480 -> 01:11:54.480] Oh, but please.
[01:11:54.480 -> 01:11:55.480] Now, you know how we run that race.
[01:11:55.480 -> 01:11:56.480] No, not but please.
[01:11:56.480 -> 01:11:57.480] Okay?
[01:11:57.480 -> 01:11:58.480] Not but please.
[01:11:58.480 -> 01:11:59.480] Not but please.
[01:11:59.480 -> 01:12:00.480] Bottas has been winning the whole grid.
[01:12:00.480 -> 01:12:01.480] It helps him win.
[01:12:01.480 -> 01:12:02.480] Can I just add one thing?
[01:12:02.480 -> 01:12:05.280] Is that if Steve is correct on anything, if we look at
[01:12:05.280 -> 01:12:09.960] this in 10 years, Norris makes the best 21st century grid. Probably. We'll see how his
[01:12:09.960 -> 01:12:13.680] career pans out. But at the moment, he's a bit nip and tuck, only because he's young
[01:12:13.680 -> 01:12:17.680] and fresh. That's the only reason why he might not make this grid.
[01:12:17.680 -> 01:12:21.520] It's the same reason that Piastri is not going to make this list, but in five years' time
[01:12:21.520 -> 01:12:22.960] may well be on it.
[01:12:22.960 -> 01:12:26.480] Okay, so, okay, right. now then, some wild cards guys.
[01:12:26.480 -> 01:12:30.600] Let's make some serious nominations for who else should make this list.
[01:12:30.600 -> 01:12:31.600] Who's in?
[01:12:31.600 -> 01:12:32.600] Go on then, Matt.
[01:12:32.600 -> 01:12:34.680] Okay, well, I mean, you know my theory of...
[01:12:34.680 -> 01:12:37.040] Well, you know what, I'm going to say this.
[01:12:37.040 -> 01:12:39.360] Can I have a special memorial moment?
[01:12:39.360 -> 01:12:45.420] There's one driver I saw race that I really would have liked to have seen how their career went
[01:12:45.420 -> 01:12:49.920] I can't really put them on this list based on their results because they only drove for manner
[01:12:50.260 -> 01:12:57.120] But I think we'd be remiss if we didn't at least mention the name Jules Bianchi because everybody who saw him race and knew him
[01:12:57.560 -> 01:13:01.720] Talked about him like he was much like Kubica a future world champion
[01:13:01.720 -> 01:13:05.480] So I just want to put him out there as someone I would put on this grid
[01:13:05.800 -> 01:13:11.720] Just to see what happened, even though he doesn't have the results admittedly. So when you look at say
[01:13:12.600 -> 01:13:14.080] Bianchi's
[01:13:14.080 -> 01:13:18.440] Rookie season and you look at his overtake on I think Kobayashi
[01:13:18.900 -> 01:13:31.000] Into Rascas at Monaco that's every bit as iconic as Lewis Hamilton diving down the insiders of Alonso in those early races or scrapping early on with Kimi Räikkönen at Spa-Francorchamps.
[01:13:31.000 -> 01:13:37.000] He definitely had that potential when you look at the point, he got a point for Manor? I think that was Monaco as well wasn't it?
[01:13:37.000 -> 01:13:46.320] It was their point, yeah. qualifying as well. So yes, obviously there's not going to be the time and the evidence to put them
[01:13:46.320 -> 01:13:51.840] on this list, but I think that is an absolutely fantastic, honourable mention. So who else has
[01:13:51.840 -> 01:13:57.040] got some midfield wild cards? Jono, come on, hit me. Well, I don't know. I was going to suggest,
[01:13:57.040 -> 01:14:06.080] can we have a... and Matt and I are really advocating for a sort of fun, reckless driver here, Maldonado.
[01:14:06.080 -> 01:14:07.080] Why?
[01:14:07.080 -> 01:14:10.080] No, not, obviously not.
[01:14:10.080 -> 01:14:11.080] Kobayashi.
[01:14:11.080 -> 01:14:12.080] No, Kobayashi, no.
[01:14:12.080 -> 01:14:15.720] There are all the Red Bull drivers that got canned before they could prove themselves,
[01:14:15.720 -> 01:14:21.120] you know, Jamie Alguer-Skwari and, you know, the rest of his mates that all went off to
[01:14:21.120 -> 01:14:24.720] Formula E, some of those looked like they were going to be damn good drivers before
[01:14:24.720 -> 01:14:28.800] they got bounced by Red Bull. And Maldonado won a race. Ocon won a race.
[01:14:28.800 -> 01:14:32.000] Why can't Maldonado be on the list? That's, you know, does that rule?
[01:14:32.000 -> 01:14:39.200] He's on my chaos agents list. I feel like we need some teams. Like we have teams that are full of
[01:14:39.200 -> 01:14:44.080] serious drivers and that's great. But if we want entertainment, we need chaos agents. We need
[01:14:44.080 -> 01:14:47.820] people who bring out the safety car at inopportune times.
[01:14:47.820 -> 01:14:52.560] Maldonado is at the top of my list because he's a decent driver, but he can't pay attention
[01:14:52.560 -> 01:14:54.660] for a whole race, so he crashes all the time.
[01:14:54.660 -> 01:14:55.660] And, um, sorry, John.
[01:14:55.660 -> 01:15:01.120] I was gonna say, in Slack, Chris Von Faker's just gone, oh, how about Nick Heidfeld as
[01:15:01.120 -> 01:15:02.120] a suggestion?
[01:15:02.120 -> 01:15:04.960] And I'm like, you know what, it's just, we're talking about entertainment here, and that's
[01:15:04.960 -> 01:15:08.640] a big, unwritten rule for this list, is Nick Heidfeld as a suggestion and I'm like you know what it's just we're talking about entertainment here and that's a big unwritten rule for this list is Nick Heidfeld is just not
[01:15:08.640 -> 01:15:14.000] entertaining enough to be on this list. It certainly doesn't spark you know passion and
[01:15:14.000 -> 01:15:18.800] there's a lot of drivers like that like Heinz-Harald Frentzen as well at the time was sort of briefly
[01:15:18.800 -> 01:15:24.480] fancied as a future champion and it didn't it didn't just quite spark. I mean there's Robert
[01:15:24.480 -> 01:15:27.360] Doornbos there's a whole bunch of them but none of them really
[01:15:27.360 -> 01:15:32.120] have got the wherewithal to make the list at all in any way.
[01:15:32.120 -> 01:15:36.480] So this is interesting, I actually thought we would be kind of fighting more but the
[01:15:36.480 -> 01:15:40.200] drivers that we don't want on the list actually got dismissed fairly quickly.
[01:15:40.200 -> 01:15:44.600] So here's our grid at the moment and we've got Hamilton, Verstappen, Vettel.
[01:15:44.600 -> 01:15:57.000] Vettel's made it. Schumacher, Alonso, Hakanen, Kubica, Rosberg, Ricciardo, Button, Raikkonen, Villeneuve, Montoya, Weber, Herbert.
[01:15:57.000 -> 01:16:06.080] And that still leaves five places on the grid and I think we're struggling to put drivers in there. So I think the clerk makes it in that zone.
[01:16:06.080 -> 01:16:10.480] I think Coulthard probably makes it at this rate, doesn't he?
[01:16:10.480 -> 01:16:11.960] How about George Russell?
[01:16:11.960 -> 01:16:14.920] When we're struggling for people, I don't think George Russell. Look, George Russell
[01:16:14.920 -> 01:16:20.280] at the moment is the second best driver at Mercedes and he only beat...
[01:16:20.280 -> 01:16:21.280] I have two...
[01:16:21.280 -> 01:16:22.280] May I finish, sir?
[01:16:22.280 -> 01:16:23.280] Where are you?
[01:16:23.280 -> 01:16:24.280] May I finish, sir?
[01:16:24.280 -> 01:16:25.000] Lucas Stiglitz. May I finish, sir? Lucas Stiglitz. May I finish, sir? I can you? May I finish, sir? Lucas Stickmin.
[01:16:25.000 -> 01:16:26.000] May I finish, sir?
[01:16:26.000 -> 01:16:27.000] Lucas Stickmin.
[01:16:27.000 -> 01:16:28.000] May I finish, sir?
[01:16:28.000 -> 01:16:29.000] I can, because I've got the fader.
[01:16:29.000 -> 01:16:36.000] So yeah, he's the second best driver at Mercedes, and really, he was beating Kubica at Williams.
[01:16:36.000 -> 01:16:38.000] Yeah, what about Grosjean?
[01:16:38.000 -> 01:16:40.000] He did reasonably well.
[01:16:40.000 -> 01:16:43.000] I mean, he crashed lots, but he did reasonably well, too.
[01:16:43.000 -> 01:16:48.200] His best season was in the 2013 Lotus, which was a great car, which could have won
[01:16:48.200 -> 01:16:51.120] a world championship had they had a different driver other than Grosjean in it.
[01:16:51.120 -> 01:16:52.600] Well, there you go.
[01:16:52.600 -> 01:16:53.600] That eliminates him.
[01:16:53.600 -> 01:16:55.600] Marcus Ericsson, Indy 500 winner.
[01:16:55.600 -> 01:16:59.200] Gas, well, you're in my chaos agents again.
[01:16:59.200 -> 01:17:00.200] Oh my God.
[01:17:00.200 -> 01:17:01.200] Do you know what?
[01:17:01.200 -> 01:17:03.600] Should we go through my chaos agents if we have the space on the grid?
[01:17:03.600 -> 01:17:04.600] Do you know what?
[01:17:04.600 -> 01:17:05.880] At the moment, there's space on the grid for Ocon.
[01:17:05.880 -> 01:17:07.920] Because no one's- Oh great, I'll take that.
[01:17:07.920 -> 01:17:12.080] Can I- Can we add to chaos- I know, it's a bit insulting putting Kobayashi as a chaos
[01:17:12.080 -> 01:17:17.120] agent, I don't think he's that, you know, as a chaos agent, but everything about Kobayashi
[01:17:17.120 -> 01:17:21.720] was fun, 2010 Suzuka, if anyone remembers who watched F1 12, 13 years ago-
[01:17:21.720 -> 01:17:22.720] I do remember.
[01:17:22.720 -> 01:17:26.480] One of the best overtaking performances ever in the sports history.
[01:17:26.480 -> 01:17:30.200] And the name, like the name Kobayashi, like he's in just for the name.
[01:17:30.200 -> 01:17:31.200] Okay.
[01:17:31.200 -> 01:17:32.200] That is in.
[01:17:32.200 -> 01:17:34.360] Like, you will know, I don't know if I've mentioned it recently, like, you know, I was
[01:17:34.360 -> 01:17:36.880] a massive Kobayashi fan at the time.
[01:17:36.880 -> 01:17:37.880] We both were.
[01:17:37.880 -> 01:17:38.880] Yeah.
[01:17:38.880 -> 01:17:39.880] He was fantastic.
[01:17:39.880 -> 01:17:43.400] And, uh, and again, he was one of these drivers that could kind of pluck a race out of his
[01:17:43.400 -> 01:17:45.440] backside, just sort of from nowhere.
[01:17:45.440 -> 01:17:46.640] They took him from nowhere.
[01:17:46.640 -> 01:17:49.040] He'd never driven anything like a Formula One car.
[01:17:49.040 -> 01:17:54.400] They threw him into it and he immediately was making Alonso furious because he was driving
[01:17:54.400 -> 01:17:55.400] like, I don't know who you are.
[01:17:55.400 -> 01:17:57.560] I'm just going to pass you and then not let you buy me.
[01:17:57.560 -> 01:17:58.560] Wow.
[01:17:58.560 -> 01:17:59.560] It was fantastic.
[01:17:59.560 -> 01:18:02.640] I haven't brought this up because I thought I would just get ridiculed, but I was like
[01:18:02.640 -> 01:18:05.120] a real low-key Kobayashi fan.
[01:18:05.120 -> 01:18:09.040] And actually, when his career ended, it was quite funny, because he then wanted to raise
[01:18:09.040 -> 01:18:12.960] money to basically be a crowd-funded paid driver.
[01:18:12.960 -> 01:18:14.440] And that's a really good idea.
[01:18:14.440 -> 01:18:18.040] That's the kind of thing that could have taken off, but they couldn't quite raise enough.
[01:18:18.040 -> 01:18:23.480] But I think he raised a million dollars, but that couldn't buy him an F1 seat.
[01:18:23.480 -> 01:18:25.360] So he just went, okay, No, it's not gonna work
[01:18:25.360 -> 01:18:28.560] But he kept it anyway to just fund other racing which i'm sure
[01:18:28.880 -> 01:18:33.360] Wasn't like, you know the intent from the people who supported him on crowdfunding. But anyway, okay good
[01:18:33.440 -> 01:18:38.820] It looks like kobayashi might sneak in there's some silly suggestions here. Uh, it was hulkenberg
[01:18:40.000 -> 01:18:43.680] Do you know I have a lot of respect for drivers who can carve out midfield careers?
[01:18:44.000 -> 01:18:46.600] And who can stay around in F1 for a long time.
[01:18:46.600 -> 01:18:49.100] People aren't hiring Hulkenberg because he's rubbish.
[01:18:49.100 -> 01:18:54.600] They're hiring him consistently because he can do a job and I think there's a lot of drivers that fall into that.
[01:18:54.600 -> 01:18:59.100] You know, Perez has been hired by two top teams, two front-running teams now.
[01:18:59.100 -> 01:19:07.680] You know, Grosjean has been hired by teams, Hulkenberg, all those drivers there, but none of them are going to be, you know, top 20 drivers.
[01:19:07.680 -> 01:19:27.840] You need someone one is going to
[01:19:27.840 -> 01:19:29.160] nominate anyone else.
[01:19:29.160 -> 01:19:32.760] And I'm a little bit surprised at where our grid is at the moment, to be honest.
[01:19:32.760 -> 01:19:39.160] I think if we're down to this desperate last measures, we should probably throw signs in
[01:19:39.160 -> 01:19:40.160] there.
[01:19:40.160 -> 01:19:41.160] He's won a race.
[01:19:41.160 -> 01:19:42.160] He's very savvy.
[01:19:42.160 -> 01:19:43.160] He's smart.
[01:19:43.160 -> 01:19:44.160] And he's entertaining on the radio.
[01:19:44.160 -> 01:19:48.680] I mean, like, clearly, we didn't nom enough drivers, because we don't have 20 people on
[01:19:48.680 -> 01:19:51.400] the grid yet, so I'm just throwing out names here, people.
[01:19:51.400 -> 01:19:55.120] ALICE Here's the game, is George Russell is our
[01:19:55.120 -> 01:20:00.400] yardstick, and if anyone can prove me why George Russell, that a driver should be in
[01:20:00.400 -> 01:20:02.560] this list apart from George Russell, they go in.
[01:20:02.560 -> 01:20:05.360] Right now, George Russell needs to make this list, we've got two spots left.
[01:20:05.360 -> 01:20:06.360] We've got two-
[01:20:06.360 -> 01:20:07.680] JUSTINE UNDERHILL Has George Russell won a race?
[01:20:07.680 -> 01:20:08.680] ALICE No.
[01:20:08.680 -> 01:20:10.400] In fact, if we've got two spots left-
[01:20:10.400 -> 01:20:11.400] JUSTINE UNDERHILL Oh right, Brazil!
[01:20:11.400 -> 01:20:12.400] Yes, you're correct.
[01:20:12.400 -> 01:20:14.160] ALICE Yeah, so I'm actually putting Fisichella
[01:20:14.160 -> 01:20:15.560] back in, because, uh-
[01:20:15.560 -> 01:20:16.560] JUSTINE UNDERHILL Aww!
[01:20:16.560 -> 01:20:17.560] ALICE I'm putting Fisichella back in, but he's a race
[01:20:17.560 -> 01:20:18.560] winner as well!
[01:20:18.560 -> 01:20:19.560] He won the Interlagos-
[01:20:19.560 -> 01:20:20.560] JUSTINE UNDERHILL I said no number twos!
[01:20:20.560 -> 01:20:21.560] ALICE He won Brazil as well.
[01:20:21.560 -> 01:20:22.560] JUSTINE UNDERHILL No number twos.
[01:20:22.560 -> 01:20:23.560] ALICE Well how is he a number two?
[01:20:23.560 -> 01:20:24.560] JUSTINE UNDERHILL Oh, come on.
[01:20:24.560 -> 01:20:25.000] He had two World Championship cars. Please. You're a number two. ALICE Okay, number twos. Number twos are out. Oh, how is he a number two? Oh, come on.
[01:20:25.000 -> 01:20:27.000] He had two world championship cars.
[01:20:27.000 -> 01:20:28.000] Please.
[01:20:28.000 -> 01:20:29.000] You're a number two.
[01:20:29.000 -> 01:20:30.000] Okay, you're right.
[01:20:30.000 -> 01:20:31.000] Okay.
[01:20:31.000 -> 01:20:33.960] So we've only got 18 out of this 18 car grid, so, right.
[01:20:33.960 -> 01:20:39.320] Any last, any last, any last pushes for these last two spots?
[01:20:39.320 -> 01:20:40.320] So we're, okay.
[01:20:40.320 -> 01:20:41.320] Oh, Steve, Steve, you're on mute.
[01:20:41.320 -> 01:20:42.320] Steve, you're on mute.
[01:20:42.320 -> 01:20:43.320] Oh, Steve, go.
[01:20:43.320 -> 01:20:44.320] Takuma Sato, maybe?
[01:20:44.320 -> 01:20:45.000] I, I, you've not put O You're on mute. SEAN Oh, Steve, go. LIAM They had Takuma Sato, maybe?
[01:20:45.000 -> 01:20:47.680] JUSTIN You've not put Ocon down.
[01:20:47.680 -> 01:20:48.680] What's wrong with you?
[01:20:48.680 -> 01:20:53.320] SEAN You, look, you've got... you can't have Sato,
[01:20:53.320 -> 01:20:59.400] or, uh, what was the other one, Esteban Ocon, and say no to Norris and George Russell, I'm
[01:20:59.400 -> 01:21:00.680] gonna keep saying it.
[01:21:00.680 -> 01:21:03.680] There's no way you can- this is a tough one.
[01:21:03.680 -> 01:21:04.680] One spot left.
[01:21:04.680 -> 01:21:10.800] This is tough. AL. Do you know what? There are two possible future generators... Of the drivers now who
[01:21:10.800 -> 01:21:16.520] we can't yet prove have potential, I think you're absolutely right, Norris and Russell,
[01:21:16.520 -> 01:21:23.080] in this ability level they have now, probably mix it with the top 20 drivers or the other
[01:21:23.080 -> 01:21:25.680] 18 drivers who we are going to be
[01:21:25.680 -> 01:21:30.640] nominating today. So put these drivers at their peak in the car that they're comfortable
[01:21:30.640 -> 01:21:36.880] with on a grid. You are probably right, Jono, Norris and Russell go toe to toe with them.
[01:21:36.880 -> 01:21:40.920] But I think we got stuck in like, well, whole career have they done enough to prove that
[01:21:40.920 -> 01:21:46.000] they're probably already there. So here's our grid. Here's our top 20 grid.
[01:21:46.000 -> 01:21:49.720] Imagine seeing these 20 drivers on track together.
[01:21:49.720 -> 01:21:52.480] Lewis Hamilton, Max Verstappen, Sebastian Vettel,
[01:21:52.480 -> 01:21:56.320] Michael Schumacher, the only Schumacher,
[01:21:56.320 -> 01:21:59.280] Fernando Alonso, Mika Hakkinen, Robert Kubica,
[01:21:59.280 -> 01:22:02.960] Nico Rosberg, Daniel Ricciardo, Jenson Button,
[01:22:02.960 -> 01:22:07.240] Kimi Räikkönen, Jacques Villeneuve, Juan Pablo Montoya.
[01:22:07.240 -> 01:22:11.640] Did Weber make it in the end? Yes or no? Mark, we're putting Mark Webber on because of the
[01:22:11.640 -> 01:22:15.840] story. Mark Webber. No, no, Webber's out. Webber's out. Webber's out.
[01:22:15.840 -> 01:22:16.840] Then we got 19.
[01:22:16.840 -> 01:22:21.800] No, no, Johnny Herbert, Leclerc, Kobayashi, Norris, Russell. We've only got 19. We've
[01:22:21.800 -> 01:22:22.800] got one spot left.
[01:22:22.800 -> 01:22:29.600] Oh, you know who I'm going to say. Weber got 42 podiums, how can you just take him out?
[01:22:29.600 -> 01:22:30.600] Who got 42 podiums?
[01:22:30.600 -> 01:22:35.840] Weber. Half of the people that you've put in there, Norris, Russell, whatever, have
[01:22:35.840 -> 01:22:37.560] got one or two podiums.
[01:22:37.560 -> 01:22:43.720] I'm gonna put Weber in because I'm scared of Uncle Steve and that concludes our top
[01:22:43.720 -> 01:22:49.920] 20.
[01:22:49.920 -> 01:22:54.440] I've loved this show, I've loved the loosey goosey nature of it and I've loved having
[01:22:54.440 -> 01:22:58.980] a scrap with my panellists here. I'm sure there's a lot of people yelling at the screen
[01:22:58.980 -> 01:23:04.480] and no Andrew, we're not desperate enough for Eddie Irvine, not at this stage. So what
[01:23:04.480 -> 01:23:05.600] we'll do is we will tweet.
[01:23:05.600 -> 01:23:08.560] We'll put our final order and our final grid in the show notes.
[01:23:08.680 -> 01:23:11.920] Please, please do do debate us.
[01:23:12.120 -> 01:23:15.320] We can be reached at feedback at Miss Apex dot net.
[01:23:15.400 -> 01:23:17.040] Spanners at Miss Apex dot net.
[01:23:17.040 -> 01:23:18.440] Matt at Miss Apex dot net.
[01:23:18.440 -> 01:23:18.920] Follow us.
[01:23:18.920 -> 01:23:21.760] All our social media links are in the show notes below.
[01:23:21.760 -> 01:23:25.040] And we will see you for the Belgian Grand Prix race
[01:23:25.040 -> 01:23:30.560] review on Sunday until we see you next work hard be kind and have fun this was
[01:23:30.560 -> 01:23:37.240] missed apex podcast my goodness that was the most arguably episode of missed apex
[01:23:37.240 -> 01:23:44.240] ever I I'm surprised man I'm surprised how much we were scrambling around for
[01:23:44.240 -> 01:23:45.000] people to add well there you go I'm sure people are I'm surprised how much we were scrambling around for people to add.
[01:23:45.000 -> 01:23:47.500] But there you go, I'm sure people are going to be yelling at us.
[01:23:47.500 -> 01:23:53.000] But even the live chat, even the live chat didn't have more people to suggest.
[01:23:55.000 -> 01:23:59.000] No, it just goes to show you though that those people that deserve a spot are few and far between.
[01:23:59.000 -> 01:24:00.000] Yeah.
[01:24:00.000 -> 01:24:03.000] We hear lots of names but they disappear and we never think about them again.
[01:24:03.000 -> 01:24:08.240] Exactly, yeah. lots of names, but they disappear and we never think about them again. Exactly. And out of the 137, actually, it's not surprising that when we're talking about
[01:24:08.240 -> 01:24:13.520] the greats that we want in our top 20, that there was only 20 to arrive at. So we'll let
[01:24:13.520 -> 01:24:17.920] ourselves off. Nice one. Oh, Matt, do we do that thing with the comment of the week?
[01:24:17.920 -> 01:24:21.520] Or have you been too busy gunning for Ocon to bother?
[01:24:21.520 -> 01:24:24.480] Whoever suggested Sebastian Bordet gets comment of the week.
[01:24:24.560 -> 01:24:28.000] to whoever, whoever said Sebastian Bordet gets caught in the way. I've got, I've got three that I could read.
[01:24:28.000 -> 01:24:32.720] I was able to pick up cause apparently, I mean, normally our chat is quite funny.
[01:24:32.720 -> 01:24:34.880] But it's been quite angry.
[01:24:34.880 -> 01:24:37.520] They were very, they were very, they were very what?
[01:24:37.520 -> 01:24:38.320] Argumentative.
[01:24:38.320 -> 01:24:39.920] I'll play the bumper.
[01:24:44.240 -> 01:24:46.080] Go for it, Mr. Trumpets.
[01:24:46.080 -> 01:24:47.880] We'll start with Jason G.
[01:24:47.880 -> 01:24:52.700] This is like me and my friends playing Risk, where we have to clarify our house rules and
[01:24:52.700 -> 01:24:55.320] that takes longer than the actual game.
[01:24:55.320 -> 01:24:57.880] Yes, no, that's true.
[01:24:57.880 -> 01:25:01.520] Risk and Catan, they're the two where it's like, oh, hang on.
[01:25:01.520 -> 01:25:02.520] Or Uno.
[01:25:02.520 -> 01:25:05.840] Uno is surprisingly controversial as well
[01:25:06.480 -> 01:25:12.960] Oh, yeah, the steward by call is leave Kimmy alone. He knows what he is doing. Nice. Nice one, Stuart
[01:25:12.960 -> 01:25:18.960] Nice one, very classic and then we'll finish up with holler who says agreeing with me. Joss was on fire
[01:25:19.840 -> 01:25:24.080] Literally. Oh my god, that's it literally. Yeah. Do you know what? I had that poster
[01:25:24.160 -> 01:25:29.980] I had that poster on my bedroom for the longest time wherever staff had had that the spray of the fuel and then it ignited
[01:25:29.980 -> 01:25:32.620] And it was just a fireball in the Benetton
[01:25:33.060 -> 01:25:34.140] Yeah in the Benetton
[01:25:34.140 -> 01:25:39.700] This is actually one of the reasons why I included just is because one of my favorite Formula One authors is Steve
[01:25:39.900 -> 01:25:41.900] Matchett who was an announcer on
[01:25:42.380 -> 01:25:46.500] Formula One TV here in the United States when I was watching again.
[01:25:46.500 -> 01:25:53.500] And he was a mechanic. He was one of the head mechanics at Benetton at the time, Verstappen and Schumacher were there.
[01:25:53.500 -> 01:25:59.500] He's written several books about it. But anyway, that doesn't have anything to do with who won today's Commentary of the Week.
[01:25:59.500 -> 01:26:06.440] And that's gonna be, it's gotta be Jason G. This is like me and friends playing Risk where we have to clarify our house rules and that
[01:26:06.440 -> 01:26:08.160] takes longer than the actual game.
[01:26:08.160 -> 01:26:09.160] Nice one, Jason.
[01:26:09.160 -> 01:26:13.160] Comment of the Week.
[01:26:13.160 -> 01:26:16.920] Okay, we are gonna get out of here.
[01:26:16.920 -> 01:26:20.680] I'm just going briefly back to, right, just very briefly, I'm gonna let you all go to
[01:26:20.680 -> 01:26:24.000] get on with your, go look at Matt, look at how the sweat on that.
[01:26:24.000 -> 01:26:25.220] I have a quick question too. Yeah with your, go look at Matt, look at how the sweat on that. You might know.
[01:26:25.220 -> 01:26:26.060] I have a quick question too.
[01:26:26.060 -> 01:26:27.540] Yeah, yeah, go on, yeah.
[01:26:27.540 -> 01:26:28.640] The intermediate set.
[01:26:29.660 -> 01:26:31.260] When I do trims and put the ads in,
[01:26:31.260 -> 01:26:34.100] do you want comment of the week left on or taken off?
[01:26:34.100 -> 01:26:36.740] This week we'll leave the comment of the week left in.
[01:26:36.740 -> 01:26:37.560] It was quite good.
[01:26:37.560 -> 01:26:39.020] Left, leave it in.
[01:26:39.020 -> 01:26:40.420] Yeah, leave it in, yeah, leave it in.
[01:26:40.420 -> 01:26:41.660] Oh my, I like that.
[01:26:41.660 -> 01:26:44.380] That was a very different tone to it.
[01:26:44.380 -> 01:27:06.800] And I think like, I'm glad, I think we all did a little bit of research, but like not enough. I think the right amount too much research and it's too nailed on us just scrambling around to think of like, argue like, I was like, surely I've got something for John Lacey. Wait, there was like one wet race, but I can't remember where it was. So don't go into specifics. You've got to do like just enough. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[01:27:06.800 -> 01:27:13.040] But one thing is, I'm looking at this list and I'm like, oh Jesus, Mark Webber.
[01:27:14.080 -> 01:27:17.360] I'm surprised. I'm surprised. I thought there'd be more drivers.
[01:27:17.360 -> 01:27:19.360] You could have put Arkon on there, I'm just saying.
[01:27:19.360 -> 01:27:23.520] No, you fought it too hard and too desperately just for ruining the show and content wise.
[01:27:23.520 -> 01:27:25.520] I'm like, no, it's not going to.
[01:27:25.520 -> 01:27:27.640] ♪♪
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