Forbidden F1 Fruit 1/1/23

Uncle Steve hosts a special magazine show with Spanners and guest Jeff O’Boyle talking all things Brabham BT46 while Trumpets and Kyle ‘Edgy’ Power get schooled by special guest F1 engineer James Wingfield, who worked at Cosworth to develop their hot blowing strategies. From forbidden fans to firing order, from waste exhaust wizardry to truncated technology, no loopholes go untested in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast.

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Spanners Ready Spanners���� (@SpannersReady)

spanners@missedapex.net

Matt Trumpets mattpt55 (@mattpt55)

matt@missedapex.net

Kyle Power Kyle Power (@KylePowerF1) / Twitter

Jeff O’Boyle Jeff O’Boyle (@JeffOBoyle1) / Twitter

James Wingfield  (875) Discord | #👋new-members | James Wingfield Racing

James Wingfield Racing - YouTube

James Wingfield (@jameswingfieldracing) • Instagram photos and videos

Link for original Missed Apex Exhaust blown Diffuser Segment:

Magazine Show: Budget Cap, Banned Tech, and Junior Series chat

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

# **Missed Apex Podcast Episode Summary:**

## **Segment 1: Forbidden F1 Fruit - The Brabham BT46 Fan Car**

- Spanners and Jeff O'Boyle delve into the fascinating story of the Brabham BT46 fan car, a revolutionary Formula One car that pushed the boundaries of ground effect aerodynamics.
- The BT46 was born out of necessity as the Brabham team struggled with the bulky Alfa Romeo flat V12 engine, which hindered the car's aerodynamic performance.
- Designer Gordon Murray came up with the idea of a fan car to generate downforce and compensate for the engine's weight and bulk.
- The car featured a massive fan mounted at the rear, which sucked air underneath the car, creating a vacuum and pushing the car down into the ground.
- The BT46 was incredibly fast, winning its only race in Sweden with Niki Lauda at the helm. However, it was also controversial, with other teams protesting its legality due to safety concerns.
- Bernie Ecclestone, the team owner and future F1 supremo, withdrew the car after one race to avoid further conflict and preserve the team's image.
- The BT46 remains the only F1 car to retire undefeated, with a 100% success rate.

## **Segment 2: Hot and Cold Blown Diffusers - A Conversation with James Wingfield**

- Trumpets and Kyle Power are joined by special guest James Wingfield, a former Cosworth engine specialist and F1 engineer, to discuss the history and development of hot and cold blown diffusers in Formula One.
- Hot blown diffusers use exhaust gases to increase downforce by directing them over the rear wing, while cold blown diffusers use compressed air to achieve the same effect.
- Wingfield explains the technical details and challenges of developing these systems, including the need for careful management of exhaust temperatures and the impact on engine performance.
- The conversation covers the dominant era of blown diffusers in F1, particularly the 2009 Brawn GP car, which revolutionized the sport with its innovative design.
- Wingfield also discusses the subsequent ban on blown diffusers and the impact it had on the sport, leading to a shift towards more conventional aerodynamic solutions.

## **Overall Message:**

The episode highlights the constant evolution and innovation in Formula One, where teams push the boundaries of technology to gain an advantage. However, it also raises questions about the role of regulations in preserving the sport's integrity and ensuring fair competition. **Prologue:**

- Uncle Steve hosts a special magazine show with Spanners, Jeff O'Boyle, and special guest F1 engineer James Wingfield, who worked at Cosworth to develop their hot-blowing strategies.


- The discussion revolves around Brabham BT46, banned technologies, and junior series.


- Listeners are encouraged to support the podcast through Patreon or use the Tip Jar to aid the 2023 advertising campaign.

**Segment 1: Brabham BT46 and Ground Effect Cars:**

- The Brabham BT46 was a fan car that used a fan to generate downforce, but it was banned due to safety concerns.


- Ground effect cars were also banned in 1979 due to their dangerous nature.


- The Brabham team owner, Bernie Ecclestone, decided to abandon the BT46 project to appease other teams and consolidate his power in Formula One.

**Segment 2: Internet-Derived Regulation Changes:**

- The 2017 regulation changes were heavily influenced by internet opinions, particularly on Reddit.


- Fans criticized the slow speeds and unreliability of the turbo-hybrid era, leading to a demand for faster and more exciting cars.


- The resulting changes aimed to increase lap times by three seconds, but critics argue that this focus on speed compromised the overall excitement of the sport.


- Nostalgia for the smaller and more nimble cars of the past, such as the 2007 and 2008 models, is expressed.


- The current cars are criticized for being large and lacking the agility of their predecessors.

**Segment 3: Exhaust-Blown Diffusers with James Wingfield:**

- James Wingfield, an F1 engineer who worked on Cosworth's hot-blowing strategies, joins the discussion.


- He clarifies that the unique sound associated with exhaust-blown diffusers was not caused by igniting fuel in the exhaust, but rather by variations in the engine's firing order and timing.


- The teams utilized cylinder cutting to control torque and optimize the exhaust flow for downforce generation.


- The FIA had strict regulations regarding the relationship between throttle position and torque delivery to prevent traction control loopholes.


- The use of different cylinder combinations for cutting did not yield significant differences in downforce or sealing effect.


- The transition from cold blowing to hot blowing was driven by the desire to maintain gas flow while reducing torque and improving engine consistency.


- Engine manufacturers introduced hot blowing at different times, with Cosworth being slightly behind the curve.


- The engine freeze in 2011 and 2012 limited hardware modifications, so teams focused on calibration changes to improve air exit velocity.


- The FIA's strict scrutiny of component changes and requests for new parts added an extra layer of challenge. ## Podcast Transcript Summary: The Hot Blowing Saga in Formula One

**Introduction:**

- Uncle Steve hosts a special magazine show with Spanners and guest Jeff O'Boyle, discussing all things Brabham BT46.
- Additionally, Trumpets and Kyle 'Edgy' Power are schooled by special guest F1 engineer James Wingfield, who worked at Cosworth to develop their hot-blowing strategies.

**Hot Blowing Technology:**

- Hot blowing involves expelling exhaust gases over the diffuser to increase downforce.
- The practice gained popularity in Formula One during the 2011-2012 seasons.
- It was achieved by delaying the ignition timing, resulting in a later burn cycle and hotter exhaust gases.
- The FIA eventually clamped down on the practice due to concerns over its legality and potential safety issues.

**Calibration and Engine Parameters:**

- Engine calibration involves managing various parameters to optimize engine performance.
- Cosworth supplied engines to several teams, and the calibration settings were generally similar across teams.
- Changes to calibration were infrequent due to reliability concerns and the need for extensive testing.
- The FIA provided guidelines and regulations to ensure compliance with engine specifications.

**Exhaust Positioning and Coanda Effect:**

- In 2012, the FIA repositioned the exhaust outlets to take advantage of the Coanda effect.
- This allowed teams to direct the exhaust gases more effectively over the diffuser, increasing downforce.
- Cosworth engineers, including James Wingfield, played a significant role in developing and refining this technology.

**Challenges and Innovations:**

- The transition from cold blowing to hot blowing posed technical challenges for engine manufacturers.
- Engineers had to ensure that engine components could withstand the increased temperatures.
- Cosworth engineers worked closely with teams to optimize the hot-blowing strategies for different tracks and conditions.
- The development of hot blowing led to advancements in engine design and exhaust system engineering.

**Impact on Team Performance:**

- Hot blowing provided a significant performance advantage to teams that were able to implement it effectively.
- The technology allowed cars to generate more downforce, leading to improved cornering and overall lap times.
- However, the FIA's decision to clamp down on hot blowing limited its impact on the sport.

**Conclusion:**

- The hot-blowing era in Formula One was a period of intense technical innovation and competition.
- Engineers pushed the boundaries of engine design and exhaust system engineering to gain a performance advantage.
- The FIA's eventual ban on hot blowing highlights the delicate balance between performance and regulation in Formula One.

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[00:30.680 -> 00:32.220] You decided you might want to live?
[00:32.220 -> 00:33.300] Did he work dirty?
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[01:13.520 -> 01:31.340] You are listening to Mist Apex Podcast. I'm Uncle Steve and again I'm here in the podcasting
[01:31.340 -> 01:36.480] room cupboard finishing off the fiddly bits of this New Year's Day show. We hope you
[01:36.480 -> 01:41.160] weathered all the revelry without too many hangovers and embarrassing moments and that
[01:41.160 -> 01:45.200] you're ready to kick off 2023 with some F1 fun and frivolity.
[01:45.400 -> 01:48.000] But before we get funny and frivolous,
[01:48.200 -> 01:52.920] let me remind you that we are an independent podcast produced in the podcasting
[01:53.120 -> 01:58.200] shed slash cupboard slash cardboard box with the kind permission of our other halves.
[01:58.400 -> 02:02.280] We may be wrong, but we're first.
[02:04.480 -> 02:05.440] Today's show title is Forbidden F1 Fruit, first.
[02:05.440 -> 02:09.960] Today's show title is Forbidden F1 Fruit, and we're taking the Wayback Machine out
[02:09.960 -> 02:14.840] for a spin to venture back through time and space to look at some of the technology breakthroughs
[02:14.840 -> 02:20.360] that have revolutionised F1 through the years, and then been banned for whatever reason.
[02:20.360 -> 02:25.700] Later, Trumpets and Kyle talk to one of our own Missed Apex patrons, F1 engineer and
[02:25.700 -> 02:31.280] former Cosworth engine specialist James Wingfield, about the heady days of hot and cold blown
[02:31.280 -> 02:32.280] diffusers.
[02:32.280 -> 02:37.920] But first, Spanner sat down with our resident F1 history buff, Jeff O'Boyle, to look at
[02:37.920 -> 02:45.000] the early days of F1 ground effects, and the amazing Brabham BT46 fan car in particular.
[02:45.000 -> 02:49.000] I've got to say that this segment really excited me, because this car,
[02:49.000 -> 02:53.000] and the six-wheel Tyrrells that preceded it, were really responsible
[02:53.000 -> 02:57.000] for getting me seriously into F1. It was the amazing technology,
[02:57.000 -> 03:01.000] and of course the insane speed that did it to me.
[03:01.000 -> 03:06.400] So, let me twist the dials and pull the levers and off we go back to a time when
[03:06.400 -> 03:09.000] F1 cars really sucked.
[03:09.000 -> 03:18.120] Hi everyone, Spanners here. I hope you had a good Christmas and have celebrated a new
[03:18.120 -> 03:23.080] year that hasn't left you in too much of a muddy pool on the floor rocking backwards
[03:23.080 -> 03:25.060] and forwards asking why you saw
[03:25.060 -> 03:32.080] the New Year in with such ferocity. But sit back and relax, because this segment is taking
[03:32.080 -> 03:38.080] you back into the past. And I have someone who comes onto this show to tell me things,
[03:38.080 -> 03:40.080] and it's Geoff O'Boyle. How's it going, Geoff?
[03:40.080 -> 03:42.040] Very well, Spanner. It's happy New Year.
[03:42.040 -> 03:47.000] Happy New Year. You are an unknower of things in the past of Formula One.
[03:47.000 -> 03:53.560] Well, I have access to Google just like anyone else. I do my best. I do find myself reminiscing
[03:53.560 -> 03:58.080] and looking back to the 70s with rose-tinted glasses and to ignore the fact that one in
[03:58.080 -> 04:02.480] three drivers would generally be wiped out in some horrific fireball and look at the
[04:02.480 -> 04:04.320] happier times such as this one.
[04:04.320 -> 04:06.960] See when you were saying that I was like, yeah, races were boring back then,
[04:06.960 -> 04:12.560] but then you made it a lot more macabre. And I'm lucky enough, I think I grew up in an era where
[04:12.560 -> 04:18.960] a death or a serious injury in Formula One was very much a shock. So as someone born in 1980,
[04:18.960 -> 04:28.320] my first real memory was Imola 94. And that kind memory really woke everyone up of my generation. But of
[04:28.320 -> 04:33.240] course, if you're a lot older than me, like you are probably, Jeff, I'm only judging by
[04:33.240 -> 04:34.240] your physical appearance.
[04:34.240 -> 04:38.680] Geoff Nunnall Yeah, time has been cruel to me, I'll give
[04:38.680 -> 04:42.720] you that. I do have to look back at the archives for a lot of this stuff as well. I'm not quite
[04:42.720 -> 04:49.600] as old as my physical appearance or mental inability would suggest. How often do you go back and watch an
[04:49.600 -> 04:54.320] old race? I have to say I've done it very rarely and I've only gone back, I've looked at some early
[04:54.320 -> 05:02.080] 90s races or maybe the beginning of Damon Hill's career and as interesting as it is to see those
[05:02.080 -> 05:05.440] cars and how difficult they seem to be to drive,
[05:07.520 -> 05:08.160] the races weren't as fun as they are now.
[05:12.480 -> 05:16.960] Yeah, the races weren't as fun. I'm not going to pretend that they were. Sometimes the field spread was just exceptional. Sometimes, you can see there's a good reason why points were only
[05:16.960 -> 05:22.160] awarded down to sixth place because you were lucky if seven cars would finish. So yeah,
[05:22.160 -> 05:25.900] sometimes they were a bit dull. What I'd like to do is with
[05:25.900 -> 05:30.380] the F1 TV subscription, I'll go back and look at the season reviews or look at the highlights
[05:30.380 -> 05:35.120] from races and that's actually quite good because you still get the beautiful slow-mo's
[05:35.120 -> 05:41.180] of Jackie Stewart power sliding through Tamburello or whatever, but you don't have to sit through
[05:41.180 -> 05:44.180] two hours of watching someone win by three and a half minutes.
[05:44.180 -> 05:49.280] Stuart Leonard No, and look, you didn't come here to just reminisce in general, but I do like looking
[05:49.280 -> 05:55.080] back and not just because we've got a lot of new listeners that are newer fans to Formula
[05:55.080 -> 05:59.440] One and to add some historical context. I always learn stuff every time you jump on.
[05:59.440 -> 06:05.480] I think I know. Even when we did Weber versus versus Vetter, I go, I remember that. That
[06:05.480 -> 06:11.040] was only recently, but you did give me like a really good refresher. And my absolute favourite
[06:11.040 -> 06:16.480] thing is, as much as you take us back in time, you give us all the historical context, my
[06:16.480 -> 06:21.440] absolute favourite bit is people nitpicking in the YouTube comments. So please, if you
[06:21.440 -> 06:26.200] have any minor corrections for Geoff, just stick it in the YouTube comments and make him feel terrible.
[06:26.200 -> 06:30.560] Yeah, thanks for that, I really appreciate the encouragement you're giving to the trolls,
[06:30.560 -> 06:31.560] that's kind.
[06:31.560 -> 06:35.440] Yeah, you're not giving us like a, you know, it's not like an exam where we have to pass
[06:35.440 -> 06:39.280] an exam at the end, you're giving us a feel, you're taking us back in time.
[06:39.280 -> 06:44.160] Yeah, the era we're talking about today, sort of late 70s, I was one year old when a lot
[06:44.160 -> 06:46.600] of this took place, so it's not exactly on the tip of my tongue.
[06:46.600 -> 06:50.320] So we do have to look back and research, and I will occasionally get things wrong.
[06:50.320 -> 06:55.440] It was part of the charm of Murray Walker for so many years, and he wasn't subjected
[06:55.440 -> 06:58.280] to the same sort of online abuse, mainly because we didn't have the internet.
[06:58.280 -> 06:59.280] There was no internet.
[06:59.280 -> 07:00.280] Yeah.
[07:00.280 -> 07:01.320] So yeah, just bear that in mind.
[07:01.320 -> 07:06.720] If it was good enough for Murray to make the odd shambles, then please afford me the same kind of thing. What's the Missed Apex motto?
[07:06.720 -> 07:11.920] We might be wrong, but we're first. Today we're talking about the infamous fan car.
[07:13.440 -> 07:21.840] Yes. So I guess what triggered this sort of topic this year was the Goodwood Hill Climb this year.
[07:21.840 -> 07:25.280] You might remember there was a car called the McMurtie
[07:25.280 -> 07:29.480] Spearling that absolutely smashed the hill climb record this year by over two seconds.
[07:29.480 -> 07:33.760] It went up in 39.08 seconds.
[07:33.760 -> 07:35.800] And it was an incredible drive.
[07:35.800 -> 07:41.240] Max Chilton, you know, ex F1 driver, you probably remember who he was, was at the helm.
[07:41.240 -> 07:51.480] And it was one of the most incredible pieces of motor racing footage from 2022. I'd commend it to you, just go and have a look at it, it really is exceptional.
[07:51.480 -> 07:55.680] And there were two things that were remarkable about that car. The first one was, it was
[07:55.680 -> 08:02.200] electric, it's all electric. And being Irish, I still have a fairly mild suspicion of electricity.
[08:02.200 -> 08:05.520] I don't think it'll ever catch on. I think there's nothing wrong with candles.
[08:05.520 -> 08:08.880] They've harnessed the sun and put it on the ground.
[08:08.880 -> 08:15.040] Yeah, I mean, it's, I sound a bit like a flat earther in this respect, but I don't believe
[08:15.040 -> 08:22.360] that electricity is real. It's a myth, it's a construct. But anyway, that aside, the second
[08:22.360 -> 08:25.680] thing that was exceptional about the McMurtry Spearling was that it had
[08:25.680 -> 08:29.840] a bloody massive fan stuck on the back of it.
[08:29.840 -> 08:34.620] And the idea was that this fan would spin at high speed and suck air underneath the
[08:34.620 -> 08:38.200] car, creating a vacuum and push the car down into the ground.
[08:38.200 -> 08:40.040] So it's ground effect.
[08:40.040 -> 08:44.500] It's creating probably as much downforce as a Formula One car at top speed.
[08:44.500 -> 08:46.400] So it's an exceptional piece of kit.
[08:46.400 -> 08:53.320] And that got me thinking about the original F1 fan car, which was the Brabham BT46B.
[08:53.320 -> 08:56.480] Most listeners will probably have seen pictures of this car in the past.
[08:56.480 -> 09:03.760] It's right up there in terms of its sort of infamy, like the Tyrrell P34 six-wheeler,
[09:03.760 -> 09:06.600] the March 701 with the surfboard nose on it. One of
[09:06.600 -> 09:11.200] the most hideous cars ever to come out of Formula One. But yeah, there's an interesting
[09:11.200 -> 09:17.200] back story to the car itself. It was short-lived, but hugely successful, which we'll get into.
[09:17.200 -> 09:22.880] It's this interesting concept of ground effect. Obviously, we're meant to be going back to
[09:22.880 -> 09:30.240] that now, so that's why the teams are trying to run nice and low to kind of make this seal underneath the car. So the general idea
[09:30.240 -> 09:37.760] is if you can have a lower pressure under the car than the air, then the car will try to fill that
[09:37.760 -> 09:42.880] vacuum. So it's kind of slip streaming into the ground. Now that's a horrible description, but I
[09:42.880 -> 09:45.400] like the fact that, you fact that like a vacuum cleaner,
[09:45.400 -> 09:50.140] they're actively pushing air out of the back to create this suction. Does this mean they
[09:50.140 -> 09:53.360] had to have a seal around the side to make it work?
[09:53.360 -> 09:57.120] KPB Exactly that. So just going back one year,
[09:57.120 -> 10:06.100] in 1977, Colin Chapman at Lotus came up with the idea of applying aerodynamic aerospace engineering to F1 cars by having
[10:06.100 -> 10:13.260] ground effect. So the Lotus in 1977, the Lotus 78 was the first Formula One car ever to try
[10:13.260 -> 10:17.460] this and you got side skirts down the side of the car, they can be made of all sorts
[10:17.460 -> 10:22.380] of things and they brush the ground and create a seal so that when the air is pushed underneath
[10:22.380 -> 10:31.280] the car, it doesn't escape sideways, it's forced out the back and that creates this vacuum, this ground effect. And in 77, the Lotus wasn't
[10:31.280 -> 10:39.840] massively successful. So when the Lotus 79, unhelpfully named 79 in 1978, came out in 1978,
[10:39.840 -> 10:45.120] a lot of the teams were really surprised by the pace of it. It was an unbelievable car. They launched it
[10:45.120 -> 10:50.640] at Monaco, I think, in 78. So it wasn't unusual back then to have a car launch halfway through
[10:50.640 -> 10:55.920] the season. It just wasn't the thing it is today where it's launched in February, you know. But it
[10:55.920 -> 11:05.400] was just unbeatable. So the Brabham 46B, the fan car, was sort of born out of necessity more than anything else. The Brabham
[11:05.400 -> 11:11.960] BT46 wasn't a brilliant car in itself. And the problem that Brabham had, the problem
[11:11.960 -> 11:20.480] that Gordon Murray, the designer, had is that the car itself ran an Alfa Romeo flat V12
[11:20.480 -> 11:26.240] engine. It's pretty powerful. It was about 50 horsepower higher than the Ford DFV that most
[11:26.240 -> 11:31.440] teams were using, including Lotus, but it was heavy and it was really bulky underneath the car.
[11:31.440 -> 11:39.600] So when you think about this flat V12 underneath the car, if you try and run ground effect through
[11:39.600 -> 11:42.640] that car, there's no way it's going to be as effective as it would be on something like the
[11:42.640 -> 11:47.840] Lotus, which was pretty much perfectly smooth under there. The engine, the bulkheads, the cylinder
[11:47.840 -> 11:54.480] heads, rather the exhaust mechanism all gets in the way of smooth airflow. So Rabham didn't have
[11:54.480 -> 11:58.720] the luxury of just doing a Force India and copying the Lotus 79. It wasn't an option.
[11:58.720 -> 11:59.680] Alleged, allegedly.
[12:00.720 -> 12:05.360] Allegedly, of course, they were heavily inspired by the Mercedes.
[12:05.360 -> 12:08.920] But yeah, so they had to come up with an entirely new idea.
[12:08.920 -> 12:13.620] And the BT46 itself before the fan car was quite interesting because to get around this
[12:13.620 -> 12:18.800] weight problem, Gordon Murray had the idea that they would run a car without any radiators.
[12:18.800 -> 12:25.280] So it was the original zero side pod concept, like the Mercedes of today or the Williams.
[12:25.280 -> 12:30.560] So they ran these things, they were called heat exchangers, on top of the minimal side
[12:30.560 -> 12:31.560] pods.
[12:31.560 -> 12:35.600] And the idea was that that would reduce a lot of weight, and so the car could be competitive.
[12:35.600 -> 12:38.520] Unfortunately, the car just overheated and blew up.
[12:38.520 -> 12:43.440] Jason Vale – I have to say, this is a struggle I've had in the engineering world, which
[12:43.440 -> 12:47.920] is design engineers don't, for some reason, they've got a blind spot. These guys who've gone
[12:47.920 -> 12:53.120] to like Loughborough University, mathematics wizards can do CAD
[12:53.120 -> 12:58.760] drawings you couldn't believe, they seem to have a blind spot for overheating
[12:58.760 -> 13:03.200] and for the need for cooling. And when you're like just like a dumb dumb ex-
[13:03.200 -> 13:08.280] grunt who's sitting there saying to them, look I'm telling you I've used this stuff before
[13:08.280 -> 13:14.040] it's gonna overheat, you need liquid cooling in here ideally and if not you
[13:14.040 -> 13:18.480] at least need some way to get the heat away. You need fans blowing the hot air
[13:18.480 -> 13:23.080] away from the thing you're trying to make work and for whatever reason they
[13:23.080 -> 13:25.720] will not do cooling unless they absolutely
[13:25.720 -> 13:31.960] have to. And one of the great examples was that Mercedes beast, I think 2016, in Singapore,
[13:31.960 -> 13:36.280] and they're literally hacking bits out of the bodywork because they suddenly realise,
[13:36.280 -> 13:40.980] and I guarantee you there'll be some Derek in the design office seeing them hacking bits
[13:40.980 -> 13:50.320] out of the bodywork, who's like, I told you. I literally told you you needed more cooling. So this is the ultimate version of it. Radiators, for people who don't
[13:50.320 -> 13:54.160] know, they'll be circulating liquid which will carry heat away and then the movement
[13:54.160 -> 13:59.760] of the air as they drive along cools that air down. So you've got this engineer who's
[13:59.760 -> 14:05.520] gone, well they're heavy, we'll just do away with all of that and unbelievably it overheated.
[14:08.880 -> 14:09.520] Yeah, I mean who could have thought that that could have been the end result of this?
[14:15.120 -> 14:19.520] So the car was launched in 70, 78 with conventional radiators, it was just too heavy to be competitive, but behind the scenes Gordon Murray was working on this fan car and
[14:20.560 -> 14:26.600] I think he might have taken inspiration from a, there was a car in the Can-Am series in the US, a sports
[14:26.600 -> 14:31.080] car series called the Chaparral 2J.
[14:31.080 -> 14:35.840] And it was around seven or eight years before the fan car appeared.
[14:35.840 -> 14:37.320] And it was a horrible looking thing.
[14:37.320 -> 14:43.000] If you if you Google it, it's a big boxy, it's like an even worse version of a 1980s
[14:43.000 -> 14:44.000] Volvo.
[14:44.000 -> 14:47.920] Yeah, you sent me a picture of it and it definitely looks like a student project.
[14:47.920 -> 14:54.600] It is just a block of white metal and you can't see any of the rear part of it because
[14:54.600 -> 14:58.640] it's basically got this box over it, which I'm assuming is acting as kind of the ground
[14:58.640 -> 15:00.000] effect skirt.
[15:00.000 -> 15:03.360] And then you've got two massive fans pushing the air out.
[15:03.360 -> 15:05.040] And this was like 10 years previous.
[15:05.040 -> 15:07.840] Angus Yeah, I think it was around 1970 that that
[15:07.840 -> 15:12.240] was launched. It had one season and was banned at the end of the season. A lot of the other teams
[15:12.240 -> 15:16.640] complained that it was kicking up dirt and rocks and things into their drivers' faces. And that's
[15:16.640 -> 15:20.480] something we'll come back to in terms of the Brabham and one of the issues around it. But
[15:21.200 -> 15:26.320] yeah, this car, this Chaparral was just horrible. If you've seen the Simpsons
[15:26.320 -> 15:32.160] episode where Homer gets to design his own car, the Homer, it's as ugly as that. And
[15:32.160 -> 15:37.360] yeah, just a real horrible thing. But it did create a lot of downforce using two fans that
[15:37.360 -> 15:40.840] were powered by their own motor at the rear of the car.
[15:40.840 -> 15:44.800] Problem Brabham had is you can't just install a second engine to power a fan at the back
[15:44.800 -> 15:48.440] of the car. The rules at the time stipulated that any fan that could be used
[15:48.440 -> 15:53.520] for cooling had to be primarily for cooling. So, I mean, they were very clever. Brabham
[15:53.520 -> 15:57.400] did design it so that over 50% of what the fan did was cool the engine.
[15:57.400 -> 15:58.400] That's it.
[15:58.400 -> 16:02.360] But the other 50% or 48% was for downforce.
[16:02.360 -> 16:07.920] Okay, so let's paint a picture for the audio listeners here. If you search Brabham fan car,
[16:07.920 -> 16:13.120] I mean, you'll see pretty quickly what the concept was. And it was like a giant cone fan just stuck
[16:13.120 -> 16:18.480] on the end where the monkey seat used to be. Oh, monkey seats have gone now, haven't they? That's
[16:18.480 -> 16:23.760] oh, how very early turbo hybrid era of me there. But underneath the rear wing, basically this huge
[16:23.760 -> 16:29.640] cone with a giant fan. So I like the thinking that even though primarily what they were trying to
[16:29.640 -> 16:36.000] do was push the air out to create this vacuum, they have to kind of, for the sake of it,
[16:36.000 -> 16:42.440] make it help with cooling as well. But this car, if I'm piecing this together right, they
[16:42.440 -> 16:45.840] launched that season, this is the one where you're
[16:45.840 -> 16:51.280] saying they didn't have the radiators, were struggling with cooling anyway. So okay,
[16:51.280 -> 16:56.160] so at least they had some cooling now, but they also had a giant fan. Can you imagine
[16:56.160 -> 17:00.000] what the other teams were thinking when this giant fan turns up?
[17:00.000 -> 17:02.480] Kevin Kennedy Yeah, they weren't impressed. There were
[17:02.480 -> 17:06.000] four teams that protested the car before it even
[17:06.000 -> 17:11.680] turned a wheel in Sweden. It was launched in Sweden in 1978. They protested it. The
[17:11.680 -> 17:17.280] governing body inspected the car, deemed that it was legal and therefore it raced and it
[17:17.280 -> 17:22.840] will come on to what it did in the race. But yeah, it was legal. But I guess if we look
[17:22.840 -> 17:25.120] back at Mercedes and Red Bull over the last couple
[17:25.120 -> 17:30.720] of years, something you constantly hear is, it's not within the spirit of the regulations,
[17:30.720 -> 17:36.520] which means that, yeah, we wish we'd thought of that, but it is legal.
[17:36.520 -> 17:40.360] It's not within the spirit of defeating us, flexible front wings, all that kind of stuff.
[17:40.360 -> 17:44.600] Yeah, so there's a few examples we can point to.
[17:44.600 -> 17:46.240] Probably the biggest one is the Frick
[17:46.240 -> 17:50.160] hydraulic system that was able to... I can't remember how all that worked now,
[17:50.160 -> 17:53.920] but it basically helped them keep the car level through corners, Mercedes car.
[17:54.640 -> 17:59.840] Yeah, absolutely. And actually, throwing back to Brabham in the 1970s, they also designed
[17:59.840 -> 18:06.400] a pneumatic system within the car that would lower the car at high speed. So it did the same sort of
[18:06.400 -> 18:12.240] thing and other teams developed it. I think it was banned at the end of 1978 or 79. But yeah,
[18:12.240 -> 18:17.920] I mean this Brabham team were hugely underfunded compared to Ferrari, for example, but they were
[18:17.920 -> 18:23.040] really innovative. They were the first team to use carbon brakes and discs. They were the first
[18:24.000 -> 18:27.560] team to design a car using computer-aided design or CAD. The first team to use carbon brakes and discs. They were the first team to design a car using computer aided design or CAD.
[18:28.240 -> 18:32.960] The first team to use computers to analyze data over a weekend at a race.
[18:33.240 -> 18:34.920] So they were pretty much ahead of their time.
[18:34.920 -> 18:37.080] And they had some big hitters in the 70s and 80s.
[18:37.080 -> 18:39.120] The team was owned by Bernie Ecclestone.
[18:39.120 -> 18:40.800] And they had Gordon Murray, as we've talked about.
[18:40.800 -> 18:43.480] They had a list of luminaries who went on to great things.
[18:43.480 -> 18:51.200] Charlie Whiting was there as well. So, yeah, they were a really innovative team at the time. In the race itself
[18:51.200 -> 18:57.520] in Sweden, in qualifying, the car was so fast that Bernie Eccleston instructed Niki Lauda
[18:57.520 -> 19:03.520] to slow the car down as much as possible. So the two drivers were instructed to fill it up with,
[19:03.520 -> 19:08.600] well, the team filled it up with fuel, ran hard tires, and the drivers were told to lift off.
[19:08.600 -> 19:11.360] So they didn't actually qualify in pole.
[19:11.360 -> 19:12.480] Job was a good one.
[19:12.480 -> 19:14.880] And Andretti got pole in the Lotus.
[19:14.880 -> 19:17.920] Lauda was second about seven tenths behind him.
[19:17.920 -> 19:22.720] But in the race, it was, it was, I think Lauda said afterwards, it was embarrassingly easy.
[19:22.720 -> 19:23.720] How easy he won that race.
[19:23.720 -> 19:26.880] He won by 34 seconds and was just coasting.
[19:26.880 -> 19:31.240] Andretti's engine failed as, you know, five out of six would have done in that era.
[19:31.240 -> 19:33.880] But in any event, there's no way he could have caught this car.
[19:33.880 -> 19:36.440] It was just leap years ahead of its time.
[19:36.440 -> 19:41.920] It's like the, you know, the FW14B Williams or, you know, the Red Bull that was absolutely
[19:41.920 -> 19:45.560] dominant in the first season, I want to say
[19:45.560 -> 19:51.920] 2007. But yeah, the car was just light years ahead, possibly gone too early. There was
[19:51.920 -> 19:52.920] 2007.
[19:52.920 -> 19:53.920] You've gone too early. You've gone way too early. 2010, 2010.
[19:53.920 -> 19:54.920] Yeah, 2009 is it? 10?
[19:54.920 -> 19:59.920] Yeah, 2009 was brawn with the diffuser.
[19:59.920 -> 20:07.920] Yeah, terrible era, very boring era, Formula 1, that whole era, you look back at the 70s.
[20:07.920 -> 20:12.380] So the car won easily and the drivers had to drive counter-intuitively, so the harder
[20:12.380 -> 20:17.800] you push it, the faster it goes, the more grip it actually generates through the fan.
[20:17.800 -> 20:21.320] So at a time when you should be lifting, going into a corner, you've got to bury the throttle
[20:21.320 -> 20:22.840] and push it into the ground.
[20:22.840 -> 20:28.800] So I'm interested, how was the fan governed?
[20:28.800 -> 20:31.800] The more you did the throttle, the harder the fan went?
[20:31.800 -> 20:34.360] Angus Yeah, effectively.
[20:34.360 -> 20:35.860] The harder it spun, and the more...
[20:35.860 -> 20:38.880] I think it had four clutches within the fan mechanism itself.
[20:38.880 -> 20:41.840] It was really complicated and made from tank parts.
[20:41.840 -> 20:43.960] As a former military person, you might be interested in this.
[20:43.960 -> 20:49.840] Mason No, no, tank regiment people are really... they're genuinely weird. And if you're listening,
[20:49.840 -> 20:55.600] don't email me. I don't care. I've had several tank regiment people tell me that they think a
[20:55.600 -> 21:01.840] tank is better than a fighter bomber. That's the level of person in... and they will not be budged
[21:01.840 -> 21:02.240] on that.
[21:02.800 -> 21:10.000] If they can make a flying tank, I might be with them on that, but until that day, yeah, I'm with you on that. But yeah, it was an
[21:10.000 -> 21:16.360] interesting piece of kit, very, very clever. And after the race, Mario Andretti claimed,
[21:16.360 -> 21:21.440] I think probably egged on by his team boss Chapman, that when he was following the Brabham
[21:21.440 -> 21:24.560] fan car, there was rocks and dirt and all sorts of stuff.
[21:24.560 -> 21:25.140] Matt Oh yeah, it's a safety issue. Angus Yeah, so safety issue. Again, the car was when he was following the Brabham fan car, there was rocks and dirt and all sorts of stuff.
[21:25.140 -> 21:31.380] So safety issue. Again, the car was legal. There was nothing wrong with the car, but
[21:31.380 -> 21:37.780] this is where we see the first hint of Bernie Ecclestone's big picture. So 1978, Bernie
[21:37.780 -> 21:50.700] Ecclestone was appointed president of FOCA, basically the team's constructors association. Bernie had big plans and he was going to see them through and being a dominant team owner
[21:50.700 -> 21:56.140] might have thrown a bit of disharmony around his own position or put a conflict of interest
[21:56.140 -> 22:00.280] in his box, if you like, his inbox.
[22:00.280 -> 22:11.000] So Bernie withdrew the car after one race undefeated. It's still the only F1 car in history to be retired with a 100% success rate.
[22:11.000 -> 22:13.040] And without being forced to.
[22:13.040 -> 22:21.000] So the team owner, Bernie Ecclestone, voluntarily goes, oh no, that isn't in the spirit of the
[22:21.000 -> 22:22.000] rules, absolutely.
[22:22.000 -> 22:25.040] It's so interesting, Had any other team come
[22:25.040 -> 22:29.960] up with that, they might have... Where were Brabham in the championship at this point?
[22:29.960 -> 22:33.920] Angus Yeah, they'd had a pretty mediocre start to
[22:33.920 -> 22:36.680] the year. I think they were around seventh or something because the car was just too
[22:36.680 -> 22:42.960] heavy. It was too uncompetitive. But yeah, the fan car would have changed everything.
[22:42.960 -> 22:45.760] It's a shame in a sense that we never got to see
[22:45.760 -> 22:50.960] how that design would have evolved because Gordon Murray was already working on a new fan car for
[22:50.960 -> 22:59.120] 1979 that apparently had two different fans, different speeds depending on what you could do.
[22:59.680 -> 23:04.320] The thing about Ground Effect and the Lotus against the fan car and the Brabham is that
[23:04.320 -> 23:10.840] Ground Effect works well on fast corners. You'll have seen that in 2022 that the cars are planted
[23:10.840 -> 23:15.000] through fast corners, but really tricky through some slow corners, through hairpins and things
[23:15.000 -> 23:20.400] that are a bit meh. That's because obviously the car's not going fast enough to generate
[23:20.400 -> 23:30.200] enough downforce to push it into the ground in slow corners. The difference of the fan car is that you could keep it planted. It didn't matter. So the downforce wasn't
[23:30.200 -> 23:35.320] being generated by speed, it was being generated by an external force at the rear of the car.
[23:35.320 -> 23:37.720] So it was in phenomenally fast through fast corners.
[23:37.720 -> 23:42.800] So from a driving style point of view, even in a slow corner, you would want to get the
[23:42.800 -> 23:50.000] speed off as quickly as possible. So nice and early, probably in a straight line, point it towards the corner, get those revs up,
[23:50.000 -> 23:54.560] get the fan going, and then you're basically on train tracks. I think there was a similar
[23:54.560 -> 24:01.000] comment from Sebastian Vettel when he had the double diffuser, so that was generating extra
[24:01.000 -> 24:07.760] downforce at the rear, and he was accelerating at points where other drivers were still breaking
[24:07.760 -> 24:13.520] into a corner. So it's fundamentally had to adapt his driving style to the way this car
[24:13.520 -> 24:18.840] was able to drive. So for those guys, it must have just been like a local go-kart track,
[24:18.840 -> 24:22.840] like an indoor track, hit the corner, get the speed down, point it into the apex and
[24:22.840 -> 24:25.560] just pin it like from way before the
[24:25.560 -> 24:26.560] apex.
[24:26.560 -> 24:27.560] Just bury it.
[24:27.560 -> 24:28.560] Exactly the same.
[24:28.560 -> 24:33.200] And the active suspension in the Williams, the FW14B that we mentioned earlier, same
[24:33.200 -> 24:34.200] issue there.
[24:34.200 -> 24:39.280] Once Mansell had confidence in that, he was unstoppable.
[24:39.280 -> 24:44.480] It's counterintuitive to plant it before the apex of the corner, but it just worked.
[24:44.480 -> 24:45.120] It just sticks to the
[24:45.120 -> 24:51.280] ground and the fan car was the same. So instead of seeing aerodynamics develop through 1979,
[24:51.280 -> 24:57.200] early 1980s and ground effect kind of become a thing and then become banned and then wings
[24:57.200 -> 25:03.360] become more important, if that car hadn't been withdrawn, who knows what direction F1 could have
[25:03.360 -> 25:05.360] taken itself. The McMurty Speurty-Spearling,
[25:05.360 -> 25:10.160] going back to what we talked about at the start, smashing the Goodwood record by two seconds
[25:10.160 -> 25:15.040] over an F1 car shows that a fan is still a really effective way to generate downforce. So
[25:15.040 -> 25:21.200] could we have seen 20 cars with multiple fans on the rear, one huge fan? It would have been
[25:21.200 -> 25:23.760] fascinating to see where the technology could have taken us.
[25:23.760 -> 25:29.640] Mason And we'd never have had really that long era where you couldn't overtake because of the
[25:29.640 -> 25:33.480] aerodynamics and the dirty air being generated. It could have been a completely different
[25:33.480 -> 25:38.680] formula. And I've been whinging for the last six, seven years here on Missed Apex about
[25:38.680 -> 25:46.640] why is aerodynamics the most fundamental thing? And I've often wondered why, given that everybody goes,
[25:46.640 -> 25:51.040] well, the aerodynamics are ruining the following, they're making the cars too planted, and they're
[25:51.040 -> 25:56.240] basically straightening out every corner in Formula One. That's how good they've gotten.
[25:56.240 -> 26:03.420] But I don't think you can get rid of it, because there is such an ingrained mentality of aerodynamics.
[26:03.420 -> 26:05.760] If you suddenly went, no front wings, no rear
[26:05.760 -> 26:11.340] wings, you'd have thousands of unemployed people in Formula One. Like, spiritually now,
[26:11.340 -> 26:15.720] you can't do that. And would it have been more interesting in F1 if it had gone down
[26:15.720 -> 26:23.200] this ground effect route? Or now, as we go into the electric era, presumably we can have
[26:23.200 -> 26:26.040] a motor on each wheel fairly soon. They're
[26:26.040 -> 26:29.480] gonna have some kind of motor on each wheel and you can derive grip and
[26:29.480 -> 26:34.220] direction change from there. And this is the long battle with F1 tech,
[26:34.220 -> 26:37.700] isn't it? As soon as someone has an innovation like that, the authorities
[26:37.700 -> 26:43.000] have two choices. A. Let it ride and everybody then will copy that. So
[26:43.000 -> 26:45.800] effectively, any innovation that you let ride,
[26:45.800 -> 26:50.480] you're going, okay, that's now the direction of the sport, or you ban it. So obviously
[26:50.480 -> 26:53.120] they looked at the giant fan on the back and went, nope.
[26:53.120 -> 26:58.320] Yeah, we're not having that. It's an interesting point you make about aerodynamics and how
[26:58.320 -> 27:03.360] that became so important over the last couple of decades in F1. And I think that the issue
[27:03.360 -> 27:09.680] is that the teams write the rules, don't they? So the teams employ, as you say, hundreds of aerodynamicists and
[27:09.680 -> 27:13.440] they want to keep them employed. And it's their hobby horses that they want to see what's
[27:13.440 -> 27:18.320] possible. And just because it's possible to create a car that's very grippy through aerodynamics
[27:18.320 -> 27:23.360] doesn't necessarily mean that we should do it. There will be much more interesting ways. I
[27:23.360 -> 27:26.320] think mechanical grip and big fat tires
[27:26.320 -> 27:32.280] and a thousand horsepower engines will always have much more romanticism for me than something
[27:32.280 -> 27:36.520] that's generating a huge amount of downforce through wings and you can't get within five
[27:36.520 -> 27:37.520] seconds of it.
[27:37.520 -> 27:40.360] Jason Vale – Yeah, and it's invisible. You can't see it. You can't really hear
[27:40.360 -> 27:47.520] it. I feel for the tech journalists, you know, Matthew Summerfield and Scarbs and stuff,
[27:47.520 -> 27:52.720] and they're trying to do these beautiful drawings, and it just looks like ancient Greek to us.
[27:52.720 -> 27:58.560] Whereas I think we could get our head around more the fan car type innovations. Horsepower
[27:58.560 -> 28:02.400] is a more tangible... Oh, they generated more horsepower. Oh, that's a bigger number than
[28:02.400 -> 28:06.160] that. Whereas aerodynamics is kind of a big mystery.
[28:06.160 -> 28:09.680] Angus Yeah, it is. I wouldn't even pretend to
[28:09.680 -> 28:13.960] understand how it works. In the rain, I kind of try and convince myself that I can see
[28:13.960 -> 28:18.540] what's going on through the vortices that I'm looking at. But the truth is, it might
[28:18.540 -> 28:25.680] as well be in Greek, as you say. Ground effect, I think, was banned at the end of 1979. And
[28:25.680 -> 28:30.280] the key reason, I think, was that it was deemed to be too dangerous. If one of the skirts
[28:30.280 -> 28:34.560] failed, the driver would appear, plant his foot, have no idea, and have a huge accident.
[28:34.560 -> 28:36.880] It works until it suddenly doesn't.
[28:36.880 -> 28:43.080] Yeah, exactly that. But in the Brabham fan car, there was quite a clever little innovation
[28:43.080 -> 28:49.680] that Gordon Murray put on the car, where he had a gauge inside the car that was either, you know, the needle
[28:49.680 -> 28:54.160] was either red or green and it was an altimeter that was installed in the car.
[28:54.160 -> 29:00.360] So if the gauge was in green, the driver would know to keep it planted.
[29:00.360 -> 29:03.960] And if it was in red, he'd know that one of the skirts had failed in the car and there
[29:03.960 -> 29:06.680] wouldn't be enough downforce to get him around the corner when he arrived there.
[29:06.680 -> 29:13.720] So it was a sort of early innovation again and trying to keep the drivers safe but ultimately
[29:13.720 -> 29:14.720] to no avail.
[29:14.720 -> 29:22.200] Yeah, you know the chase for ever more downforce and ever more lap time. The one regulation
[29:22.200 -> 29:26.680] change that still makes me so angry is the 2017 one, because
[29:26.680 -> 29:32.120] I feel like this was an internet-derived change. And if you remember, they just had the turbo
[29:32.120 -> 29:37.720] hybrid era, and actually the racing wasn't too bad, except that we had the dominance
[29:37.720 -> 29:42.880] of Mercedes and the unreliability was a bit of a hark back to the past. You know, cars
[29:42.880 -> 29:49.120] were sort of conking out left, right and centre, especially the Renaults. But they had slowed the cars down
[29:49.120 -> 29:52.800] significantly, the cars were heavier, and the internet, and I'm probably going to blame
[29:52.800 -> 29:57.440] specifically Reddit for no reason at all, just massively kicked off. These cars are
[29:57.440 -> 30:03.400] slow. It's pathetic. They're no quicker than GP2, I think it was at the time, like it was
[30:03.400 -> 30:05.120] starting to get close. And there was just
[30:05.120 -> 30:10.760] an outcry and they changed the regulations in 2017. Okay, no, we'll make these the fastest
[30:10.760 -> 30:16.760] Formula One cars ever. And it was a bit, it was rubbish. It's just like, why have you,
[30:16.760 -> 30:22.440] why do you need the stop clock? Why is that so important as a viewer? But it was, it was
[30:22.440 -> 30:27.120] a knee jerk reaction change for the, for the worst. Curse you, internet.
[30:27.120 -> 30:30.640] Angus Yeah, no, I absolutely agree. Making them,
[30:30.640 -> 30:33.840] oh, they're going to be three seconds a lap faster next year, I don't care. I want to
[30:33.840 -> 30:37.400] see close racing. I want to see the field bunched up. I want to see cars moving around
[30:37.400 -> 30:40.920] a bit. I want to see the drivers at work. I don't care that aerodynamicists can build
[30:40.920 -> 30:49.520] a car that can drive upside down on the ceiling. That's not what we're racing. I want to see cars going at it through Eau Rouge, Radeon. I want to see
[30:49.520 -> 30:54.920] excitement. I don't want to see a stop way to go. Oh yes, it's two and a half seconds
[30:54.920 -> 30:57.320] faster than it was last. I don't care about any of that.
[30:57.320 -> 31:05.680] It's the same with, you look back at the 2007, 2008 cars. they were so much smaller than we've got today.
[31:05.680 -> 31:14.560] We've basically got huge sports cars, WEC, LMP1 type cars, just with no lid on them.
[31:14.560 -> 31:16.920] And you see them side by side.
[31:16.920 -> 31:21.600] When Alonso did the demonstration, was it Abu Dhabi?
[31:21.600 -> 31:22.600] It wasn't Abu Dhabi.
[31:22.600 -> 31:27.360] Was it, oh gosh, where was it? Of the R25, the
[31:27.360 -> 31:28.360] 2005 Renault.
[31:28.360 -> 31:34.920] Oh Renault, yes. I do. And that was a bit of a PR mistake because everyone that looked
[31:34.920 -> 31:35.920] at that went, ooh.
[31:35.920 -> 31:38.920] Have we not of that again? Yeah.
[31:38.920 -> 31:42.080] Look at that. Listen to that. Was it the V10 as well?
[31:42.080 -> 31:45.040] Yes, it was V10. Yeah. Right in if it wasn't, please.
[31:45.920 -> 31:47.920] But yeah, and it was beautiful.
[31:47.920 -> 31:52.320] It changed direction so quickly and it just looked the absolute bee's knees.
[31:53.200 -> 31:56.800] And then you look at what we've got today and it's, yeah, there's a bit of variety between
[31:56.800 -> 32:00.400] the cars and it's more interesting to look at now than it was last season, for example.
[32:00.400 -> 32:04.240] But are the cars really more exciting to watch on TV in particular?
[32:04.240 -> 32:05.120] Oh yeah, maybe not on TV, but also it has really more exciting to watch on TV in particular?
[32:05.120 -> 32:09.620] Maybe not on TV, but also it has to be the right track nowadays. So they do look great
[32:09.620 -> 32:14.020] around, say, the Tilka drums, basically, which used to get slated all the time, but now they
[32:14.020 -> 32:19.580] seem to be the ones. If we can have Malaysia and Shanghai and the Indian Grand Prix and
[32:19.580 -> 32:25.680] the Korean Grand Prix, all of those tracks would really suit these modern cars now. But we've gone back.
[32:25.840 -> 32:30.760] We've had Portimao and Imola coming back.
[32:30.800 -> 32:33.120] We've gone in the wrong direction for these guys.
[32:33.120 -> 32:44.000] But I would say go back and watch some of the 2007, 2008 seasons and watch Alonso and Hamilton going at it and Raikkonen in the mix there as well.
[32:44.280 -> 32:45.440] Particularly, let's
[32:45.440 -> 32:52.400] say 2007, no 2008 Spa, that was quite a good one to go back and watch Hamilton versus Raikkonen.
[32:52.400 -> 32:56.600] Those cars were dancing around each other and the tracks look massive. It's like when
[32:56.600 -> 33:01.200] you go back to primary school and you know the size of the chairs is so different. You
[33:01.200 -> 33:09.040] look back and you go, the cars are teeny. They're like micro machines. Angus Yeah, that 2007 series was brilliant. Sorry,
[33:09.040 -> 33:16.160] that season 2008 was brilliant. 2012 was also a good season. But if you get a chance to
[33:16.160 -> 33:21.920] go to a motor museum, for example, that is a good one at Monaco. If you're not knocking
[33:21.920 -> 33:25.760] around in Monaco with an afternoon to spend. You're
[33:25.760 -> 33:26.760] in the continent now.
[33:26.760 -> 33:34.680] I nearly drove through Monaco out of curiosity, but because I always whinge about Monaco as
[33:34.680 -> 33:39.120] a Grand Prix track, I was like, oh, I can't then go. But from a history point of view,
[33:39.120 -> 33:43.640] you go, oh yeah, remember Monaco when it used to be relevant and entertaining in Formula
[33:43.640 -> 33:48.320] 1, but I didn't want to be seen to be endorsing modern races at Monaco.
[33:48.320 -> 33:50.320] Specifically that's the reason we didn't go through it.
[33:50.320 -> 33:51.320] Mason.
[33:51.320 -> 33:55.120] Just a point of principle, you've literally cut your nose off to spite your face there.
[33:55.120 -> 33:56.120] Steele.
[33:56.120 -> 33:59.920] Yes, but I have my principles, unless you have money, in which case I'll abandon them
[33:59.920 -> 34:00.920] quickly.
[34:00.920 -> 34:01.920] Mason.
[34:01.920 -> 34:02.920] Quite right.
[34:02.920 -> 34:12.400] Like the old adage, there's two good reasons to marry, you know. When you see the new cars compared to the old cars, almost side by side, it's breathtaking to look at them.
[34:12.400 -> 34:14.400] And I think it's just such a shame.
[34:14.400 -> 34:21.000] I mean, I know I'm harking back to an era in the 70s when the cars were pretty big, but the tires were, you know, 25 feet wide.
[34:21.000 -> 34:27.920] It was a different thing. I was reading something the other day about
[34:33.920 -> 34:39.440] the turbo era engines when they were first introduced, and it was one team that had 600 engines in a season. They weren't always reliable, but I didn't think they were that unreliable.
[34:40.000 -> 34:43.200] It could have been a typo. I hope it was a typo, but it definitely says 600.
[34:43.200 -> 34:48.560] Mason Welch Even 60 would be a lot. But look, before we turn into old men shouting at the clouds,
[34:48.560 -> 34:51.680] because I didn't realise it was going to become old F1 versus new F1,
[34:52.400 -> 34:57.520] there's a lot of plus points now, which is obviously safety for the one part. I do like that.
[34:57.520 -> 35:02.320] There is close racing. If you look at the field spread, it is a lot lower. Reliability is better,
[35:02.320 -> 35:05.040] so you're not robbed of just, you know,
[35:05.040 -> 35:09.000] suddenly having six cars on track, you know, an hour into the Grand Prix, which
[35:09.000 -> 35:13.500] has literally happened. There's less rubbish gravel, so you don't just get
[35:13.500 -> 35:17.240] people make a slight mistake and be beached forever. Oh, you're gonna email me
[35:17.240 -> 35:21.520] about that? Feedback at misstepx.net. But this has been, you know, really
[35:21.520 -> 35:31.880] insightful, and make sure you go and Google. The two things people need to go and search up are the Brabham BT46B, or just the 1978 Brabham fan car will get
[35:31.880 -> 35:34.920] you there. That horrible boxy thing, what was that?
[35:34.920 -> 35:36.400] That was the Chaparral 2J.
[35:36.400 -> 35:42.040] Chaparral 2J, that's well worth looking at. And in general, go and follow Jeff O'Boyle
[35:42.040 -> 35:45.560] on Twitter. Have you snagged the Jeff O'Boyle handle?
[35:45.560 -> 35:49.400] Alasdair Al-Khalili Yeah, Elon Musk has still mercilessly locked
[35:49.400 -> 35:54.120] me out of my original account because I've forgot the password. But yeah, I think it's
[35:54.120 -> 35:56.320] JeffOBoyle1 at Twitter.org.
[35:56.320 -> 36:02.600] We'll put a link in the show notes below, and make sure in the YouTube comments, just
[36:02.600 -> 36:06.360] play Hunt the Mistake and just pick up any little tiny
[36:06.360 -> 36:11.120] errors Jeff might have made. Jeff, thanks for playing podcasting with us. I always enjoy
[36:11.120 -> 36:16.480] a bit of a look back in the past, even if it does inevitably turn into two old men ranting
[36:16.480 -> 36:33.640] and yelling at clouds. it. Looking for a fun way to win up to 25 times your money this football season?
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[37:38.720 -> 37:47.200] the fact that the Brabham team owner, one Bernard Charles Eccleston, Kyboshed the BT46B even though it was ruled to be legal,
[37:47.200 -> 37:51.600] just to keep the other teams on side while he effectively took over the sport.
[37:52.320 -> 37:57.680] Who said winning was everything? Anyway, it's now time to turn our attention to things that
[37:57.680 -> 38:05.080] go huff and puff. James Wingfield is a committed Mr Apex patron, a serious caterer and racer and winner, and
[38:05.080 -> 38:06.880] a competitive sim racer.
[38:06.880 -> 38:12.720] He's also an F1 engineer, and in a previous life he was a Cosworth engine specialist directly
[38:12.720 -> 38:17.120] involved in developing that company's blown diffuser strategies.
[38:17.120 -> 38:21.160] Matt Trumpets and Kyle Power caught up with him and gave him the third degree about what
[38:21.160 -> 38:26.360] he and his team did, how they did it, and just why the FIA decided
[38:26.360 -> 38:27.360] to kill it off.
[38:27.360 -> 38:38.820] Hi, I'm Matt Trumpets, and welcome back to Forbidden F1 Fruit.
[38:38.820 -> 38:43.760] We are once again going to discuss exhaust-blown diffusers, and once again joining me today
[38:43.760 -> 38:49.980] is none other than Kyle Power, who in addition to being a driver analyst is also a proper mad scientist-type
[38:49.980 -> 38:54.640] engineer, harnessing the fundamental powers of the universe for what I assume is probably
[38:54.640 -> 38:56.680] not evil. Welcome back, Kyle.
[38:56.680 -> 38:59.080] Hey Matt, how's it going?
[38:59.080 -> 39:00.080] It's going well.
[39:00.080 -> 39:05.160] Yeah, so very good to be back doing this and looking forward to continuing our conversation
[39:05.160 -> 39:07.220] from the first show.
[39:07.220 -> 39:12.020] And we should probably explain at this point, the reason we are revisiting this topic is
[39:12.020 -> 39:18.240] a lurking expert, super awesome, special guest, James Wingfield reached out.
[39:18.240 -> 39:22.700] And in addition to being very quick and a caterer and not too bad and iRacing, I have
[39:22.700 -> 39:28.720] to say, he actually worked on these strategies at Cosworth when they were being used in Formula
[39:28.720 -> 39:29.720] 1.
[39:29.720 -> 39:33.040] So before we bring him in, why don't you real quick tell us what exactly we were talking
[39:33.040 -> 39:36.360] about because, as we all know, my memory is less than perfect.
[39:36.360 -> 39:41.960] So yes, for those of you who weren't listening to the first segment, which there will be
[39:41.960 -> 39:49.800] a link in the description below, you should go and check that out, that we were exploring some of the band technologies in Formula One, and
[39:49.800 -> 39:53.840] we started off with one of our favorite ones, which is exhaust blown diffusers.
[39:53.840 -> 39:59.000] And now the F1 teams were utilizing this lots of what, which was wasted energy coming out
[39:59.000 -> 40:03.680] the back of the exhausts, and they're blowing it into the diffuser to create copious amounts
[40:03.680 -> 40:10.680] of downforce and they're applying all sorts of crazy wizardry and tricks with engine mapping, cylinder cutting,
[40:10.680 -> 40:14.760] hot and cold blowing, which we discussed in quite a lot of detail in the previous segment.
[40:14.760 -> 40:18.000] So if you haven't listened to that, go back and have a listen.
[40:18.000 -> 40:22.480] But someone who was listening to that and was probably getting angry and shouting at
[40:22.480 -> 40:25.360] the screen was our very special guest James.
[40:25.360 -> 40:28.800] So James, how wrong were we in that last show?
[40:29.600 -> 40:33.280] Yeah, hi guys. First of all, it's great to be here. I'm a big fan of the show,
[40:33.280 -> 40:37.120] listened for quite a long time, so to get my moment on the show is great.
[40:38.160 -> 40:43.600] And yeah, to answer your question, I listened into that particular episode keenly and I was
[40:43.600 -> 40:47.760] really impressed actually. A lot of the information was really accurate.
[40:47.760 -> 40:52.400] Not too many things were wrong, but there's always a little bit of knowledge that doesn't
[40:52.400 -> 40:53.800] quite make it to the forefront.
[40:53.800 -> 40:54.800] Oh, good.
[40:54.800 -> 41:02.760] So in particular, so we originally sort of thought one thing that drew us to this topic
[41:02.760 -> 41:05.560] was the crazy sound generated with
[41:05.560 -> 41:09.640] the off-throttle hot blowing, what the teams were doing.
[41:09.640 -> 41:15.360] And I maybe may have erroneously thought that the sound was to do with them igniting fuel
[41:15.360 -> 41:19.440] in the exhaust, which is creating this crazy sound, but that might not be the case.
[41:19.440 -> 41:22.680] Yeah, I think there's probably a little bit more behind that.
[41:22.680 -> 41:26.240] So I mean, ultimately, obviously the sound is coming from the explosions that are happening
[41:26.240 -> 41:28.080] inside the engine.
[41:28.080 -> 41:33.560] But the real variation in note, I think, had a lot more to do with the timing of those
[41:33.560 -> 41:39.960] explosions and the effectively the effective firing order that the engines were running
[41:39.960 -> 41:43.400] as much as just burning the fuel in the tailpipes.
[41:43.400 -> 41:45.360] Okay. Okay.
[41:45.360 -> 41:51.240] So I'm going to immediately ask you to explain that a little bit more for me, not being as
[41:51.240 -> 41:53.380] much of an expert as Kyle.
[41:53.380 -> 41:58.680] How can you change the order that the cylinders fire in?
[41:58.680 -> 42:02.680] Because aren't they all connected and have to run in the same order?
[42:02.680 -> 42:03.680] Yeah.
[42:03.680 -> 42:08.880] So we had V8s at the time, obviously in Formula 1, 2.4 liter V8s.
[42:08.880 -> 42:13.960] Now there's a definite mechanical link through the crankshaft and the arrangement of those
[42:13.960 -> 42:19.680] eight cylinders, which enforces the firing order to be whatever each of the engine manufacturers
[42:19.680 -> 42:21.680] decided it to be.
[42:21.680 -> 42:26.400] But that only really applies when you're in eight cylinder mode. And there was one element
[42:26.400 -> 42:31.040] of the mapping that was open to us all at the time, and I think probably still is to this day,
[42:31.040 -> 42:35.440] but you can drop cylinders. So you don't have to fire all eight cylinders all of the time.
[42:36.480 -> 42:40.880] And that was really where the, and it's not a loophole because it was being used already for
[42:40.880 -> 42:46.840] torque control, but that was really where the kind of expansion for hot blowing and the kind of
[42:46.880 -> 42:49.520] opportunity to really develop hot blowing came from.
[42:50.200 -> 42:52.760] Okay, so that's really interesting. So you mentioned
[42:53.240 -> 42:55.880] torque control, and I presume that's what links to what we
[42:55.880 -> 42:58.960] hear sort of engineers say on the radio, all the talk demand.
[42:59.200 -> 43:02.240] So I presume that's when the drivers got a certain throttle
[43:02.240 -> 43:04.840] position on say they got 20% throttle, but they don't
[43:04.840 -> 43:09.640] necessarily want 20% power. so you'd cut some cylinders to
[43:09.640 -> 43:13.000] deliver the power that they want at that time.
[43:13.000 -> 43:14.080] Kind of.
[43:14.080 -> 43:17.760] So the driver is obviously controlling the car, and as part of that he's controlling
[43:17.760 -> 43:18.840] the engine.
[43:18.840 -> 43:23.800] Now he has a limited scope of information he can provide to the engine, which pretty
[43:23.800 -> 43:25.000] much is just through his right foot.
[43:25.000 -> 43:33.000] So as he puts his foot down, the more throttle pedal he applies, the more torque he is after from the engine.
[43:33.000 -> 43:40.000] But what we do have in Formula One or had then, and obviously even in road cars these days, is electronic throttles.
[43:40.000 -> 43:47.240] We've moved on somewhat from the old days of a cable between the driver's foot and the throttle mechanism,
[43:47.240 -> 43:51.440] or blade, or barrel, or whatever the throttle valve was,
[43:51.440 -> 43:54.840] where it used to be entirely tied to the pedal position,
[43:54.840 -> 44:00.040] and now as the driver puts his foot down, that then sends a torque demand to the engine,
[44:00.040 -> 44:02.640] which is slightly different to a throttle position.
[44:02.640 -> 44:08.240] So then the engine and the ECU and the control unit can determine how to deliver that torque
[44:08.240 -> 44:14.080] demand. There are some rules and the FIA, particularly around this hot blowing period,
[44:14.640 -> 44:21.040] were very interested in how the PU or the engine manufacturers were using both throttle position
[44:21.040 -> 44:25.840] and generally torque control because they were, I don't know if they were
[44:25.840 -> 44:30.880] trying to clamp down particularly on hot blowing, but it was, there was a lot of movement around
[44:30.880 -> 44:36.080] that at the time. And everybody was, was very interested in how the throttles were being used.
[44:36.080 -> 44:40.320] And it was something that was changing rapidly race by race, even there were sort of slightly
[44:40.320 -> 44:45.480] different control strategies at play. So I'm going to, first of all, have a laugh
[44:45.480 -> 44:48.100] because I swear I recognized exact words
[44:48.100 -> 44:50.600] from the FIA rule book when you were talking
[44:50.600 -> 44:53.160] about the driver being in full control of the car.
[44:53.160 -> 44:54.800] It's like they beat that into you
[44:54.800 -> 44:56.880] whenever you were going to talk about something
[44:56.880 -> 44:58.160] to the press.
[44:58.160 -> 45:00.200] But I want to understand here,
[45:00.200 -> 45:03.200] because my memory of the rule is that
[45:03.200 -> 45:06.440] there has to be a linear relationship
[45:06.440 -> 45:11.920] between the throttle position and the torque being delivered to the wheels.
[45:11.920 -> 45:17.400] And you're saying that that wasn't the case then, or that there was just
[45:17.400 -> 45:30.000] some allowable play in what you could do based on the situation, the mapping you said, that you were using for that particular track?
[45:30.000 -> 45:33.000] It doesn't have to be linear.
[45:33.000 -> 45:37.000] And I think even, what is it, probably 10 years, more than 10 years ago now,
[45:37.000 -> 45:42.000] but I think the phrase that the FIA used was monotonically increasing.
[45:42.000 -> 45:47.440] Effectively, for 1% throttle pedal, you'd have a certain amount of engine torque.
[45:47.440 -> 45:49.880] For 2%, it had to be more torque,
[45:49.880 -> 45:52.480] but it didn't have to be twice as much torque.
[45:52.480 -> 45:55.160] So as the driver was putting his foot down,
[45:55.160 -> 45:58.200] the engine torque had to be continually increasing.
[45:59.160 -> 46:01.280] And that wasn't really so much around hot blowing
[46:01.280 -> 46:02.120] or anything like that.
[46:02.120 -> 46:04.060] It was more around torque.
[46:05.160 -> 46:06.440] It wasn't so much around hot blowing, anything like that. It was, it was more around torque. It wasn't so much around hot blowing.
[46:06.440 -> 46:10.120] It was more around traction control because there potentially would be a
[46:10.120 -> 46:15.440] loophole where if the driver had his foot anywhere between kind of 0 and 50%
[46:15.440 -> 46:19.000] throttle, you could, you could play games with the delivery of the engine.
[46:19.000 -> 46:22.760] Then in theory, I suppose you could have an element of launch control or, or
[46:22.760 -> 46:25.440] torque control or traction control creeping in.
[46:26.080 -> 46:30.320] That's really interesting. So that brings us on quite nicely to our original subjects of
[46:30.880 -> 46:35.040] we were just talking about drivers being on the throttle, so with the exhaust blowing we're talking
[46:35.040 -> 46:39.840] about drivers being off the throttle and on the way into the corner. So the whole point and mini
[46:39.840 -> 46:46.400] recap is you want to keep gas flowing through the exhaust whilst the driver has got no torque
[46:46.400 -> 46:52.560] demand or throttle on at all. So you're saying that you cut cylinders to help you guys achieve
[46:52.560 -> 46:56.680] that? I mean, how did you, how did you originally sort of go about achieving that when you had
[46:56.680 -> 46:58.740] to first start setting this up?
[46:58.740 -> 47:05.920] So partly that's an easy one to answer because it was already in place. Cutting cylinders wasn't new for blowing,
[47:05.920 -> 47:12.560] it was already in place. And even having the throttles slightly open when the driver had
[47:12.560 -> 47:17.680] zero pedal position is nothing new. That was already happening and has always happened in
[47:17.680 -> 47:30.240] Formula One really. So there's a little element of it being just a development of what was already happening. And it predominantly came from the team saying, look, we would like to use the exhaust flow.
[47:30.880 -> 47:35.200] I think you previously talked a little bit about the kind of the curtain of that exhaust flow
[47:35.200 -> 47:39.120] being useful to prevent the tire squirt getting into the diffuser.
[47:39.120 -> 47:43.440] And I think that was certainly the application back in 2011.
[47:44.160 -> 47:47.920] That was very much the application that was being used.
[47:47.920 -> 47:52.400] A bit like when you walk past a shop and they've got the hot air blowing down just in front
[47:52.400 -> 47:57.320] of the doorway, it creates a bit of a seal between the cold air outside and the warm
[47:57.320 -> 47:59.360] air inside the shop.
[47:59.360 -> 48:03.760] That jet of air was very useful to them, and that was really how it started to develop.
[48:03.760 -> 48:08.160] Of course, it started with cold blowing, later moving into hot blowing.
[48:08.160 -> 48:13.120] I want to hear about the evolution of why you went from cold to hot, but before we do,
[48:13.120 -> 48:19.280] the question I got to ask is, did you find that using different combinations
[48:19.280 -> 48:24.840] of cylinders make any realistic difference in the amount of downforce
[48:24.840 -> 48:26.680] or the amount of seal
[48:26.680 -> 48:30.160] that you were getting with either the cold or the hot blowing?
[48:30.160 -> 48:34.680] In other words, did you say, well, we're already cutting cylinders two, four and six.
[48:34.680 -> 48:36.580] What if we did two, three and seven?
[48:36.580 -> 48:37.680] Do we get a better result?
[48:37.680 -> 48:41.920] Did it come about like that or was it just sort of what you already had going on that
[48:41.920 -> 48:43.400] made for these different sounds?
[48:43.400 -> 48:45.400] Yeah, that's a really interesting one.
[48:45.400 -> 48:49.920] So the cutting of cylinders, it was already in place
[48:49.920 -> 48:52.480] because fundamentally these engines are designed
[48:52.480 -> 48:55.700] to produce a lot of horsepower, near enough,
[48:55.700 -> 48:57.520] let's call it 800 horsepower at the time.
[48:57.520 -> 48:58.840] It was about there, there or thereabouts.
[48:58.840 -> 49:01.840] So if you've got a hundred horsepower per cylinder
[49:01.840 -> 49:04.000] and the engines are fully tuned to deliver
[49:04.000 -> 49:05.840] that high air flow rate, that high
[49:05.840 -> 49:11.040] fuel flow rate, what you tend to find is that when you ask each cylinder to deliver only a couple of
[49:11.040 -> 49:17.280] horsepower at really low torque demands, as we're now calling it, they become very inconsistent.
[49:17.280 -> 49:22.880] And sometimes the driver might ask for three percent torque or maybe three percent pedal and
[49:22.880 -> 49:29.680] a very small amount of torque, but the engine can over or under deliver because each injector is flowing such a small amount of fuel that it's
[49:29.680 -> 49:34.320] hard to meter accurately. The throttles themselves might have a little bit of air leakage through
[49:34.320 -> 49:40.480] them so what you find is it's actually far more consistent to have fewer cylinders working a bit
[49:40.480 -> 49:46.120] harder than all of the cylinders trying to work really, really gently. And that's really where it came from.
[49:46.120 -> 49:51.320] So the idea of dropping, let's say from eight cylinders to four cylinders was already in
[49:51.320 -> 49:57.960] place and it then depended on which four cylinders that you're firing to get the most out of
[49:57.960 -> 49:59.200] particularly hot blowing.
[49:59.200 -> 50:04.080] Obviously with cold blowing, none of the cylinders are firing because the demand is so low that
[50:04.080 -> 50:05.040] all of the injection
[50:05.040 -> 50:09.560] is turned off, at which point you can open the throttle fully and the engine is now a
[50:09.560 -> 50:14.080] nice big air pump, which I think is something that you covered already in the previous show.
[50:14.080 -> 50:17.800] And you can flow more air through an engine with the throttles wide open than you can
[50:17.800 -> 50:22.020] with them closed, but it's flowing through all eight cylinders.
[50:22.020 -> 50:25.140] So there's no real effect of different cylinders
[50:25.140 -> 50:26.780] being fired in cold blowing.
[50:26.780 -> 50:30.100] That only comes into play for hot blowing.
[50:30.100 -> 50:31.340] So for the hot blowing,
[50:32.860 -> 50:35.260] so in all of this, I presume the main goal
[50:35.260 -> 50:38.020] was to achieve maximum gas flow rate
[50:38.020 -> 50:39.420] out of the back of that exhaust.
[50:39.420 -> 50:42.260] So you just wanted to get the most amount of gas
[50:42.260 -> 50:47.400] at a higher energy potential as possible throughout, through the exhaust.
[50:47.400 -> 50:50.760] So why would you cut cylinders to achieve that?
[50:50.760 -> 50:53.080] Surely you just want full bananas.
[50:53.080 -> 50:56.080] Just let's use all eight cylinders,
[50:56.080 -> 50:58.000] throttles wide open, cut the ignition,
[50:58.000 -> 50:59.160] force loads of fuel through,
[50:59.160 -> 51:01.000] and basically have huge explosions in the exhaust
[51:01.000 -> 51:01.820] to create loads of gas.
[51:01.820 -> 51:03.900] Like, why wasn't that the case?
[51:03.900 -> 51:05.480] Yeah, well, that's another good point. And it kind of is the case. So the trouble is that you end to create loads of gas. Like why wasn't that the case? Yeah, well, that's another good point.
[51:05.480 -> 51:06.900] And it kind of is the case.
[51:06.900 -> 51:08.440] So the trouble is that you end up
[51:08.440 -> 51:10.600] with loads of torque being applied.
[51:10.600 -> 51:13.120] So as the driver's asking for less torque,
[51:13.120 -> 51:14.920] if you're fully firing all eight cylinders,
[51:14.920 -> 51:17.940] you've got 800 horsepower coming through the rear wheels
[51:17.940 -> 51:19.200] and the driver's going into a corner
[51:19.200 -> 51:20.600] trying to slow the car down.
[51:21.480 -> 51:23.720] There's an element that you can tune it out with the brakes
[51:23.720 -> 51:28.000] if the rear brakes are really meaty and can deal with that, but they tend to overheat very quickly.
[51:28.000 -> 51:40.000] And you'll sometimes hear the drivers complaining of push. And that's effectively what that is. That's when the engine is delivering a bit more torque than they would like it to in that engine braking zone or the corner entry zone.
[51:40.000 -> 51:48.280] And they'll say that the engine is pushing a bit because it's actually delivering a bit too much torque. It's great for the diffuser, in
[51:48.280 -> 51:52.840] this instance anyway, when we go back to the kind of blown diffuser era, but not
[51:52.840 -> 51:55.940] so useful for the fundamentals of racing a car around a track.
[51:55.940 -> 52:02.360] Okay, that's super interesting. So you'd cut half the cylinders, you'd
[52:02.360 -> 52:05.280] force some fuel through through because the cold blowing
[52:05.280 -> 52:09.480] started and as you said, cold blowing pretty much turned the engine into an air pump, just
[52:09.480 -> 52:10.480] pumping air through.
[52:10.480 -> 52:14.040] Whereas hot blowing, you'd manage to force some fuel through the cylinders, through the
[52:14.040 -> 52:18.800] engine and then that ignites on the hot exhaust, obviously creating more gas flow.
[52:18.800 -> 52:20.280] You can only do that to a certain extent.
[52:20.280 -> 52:24.280] And I presume also as well, fuel consumption goes through the roof at a certain point if
[52:24.280 -> 52:27.680] you're pushing too much fuel through the engine.
[52:27.680 -> 52:35.280] So why and how was the transition over to sort of hot blowing?
[52:35.280 -> 52:39.480] Was this something that you guys knew was already sort of possible or were you sort
[52:39.480 -> 52:42.040] of reacting to what other teams were doing?
[52:42.040 -> 52:47.360] So I think the general consensus is amongst us, just normal fans who are not on the inside,
[52:47.360 -> 52:49.520] was this is sort of a kind of a Renault,
[52:49.520 -> 52:51.920] Red Bull sort of developed thing,
[52:51.920 -> 52:53.720] or is this something that you guys were fully aware
[52:53.720 -> 52:55.820] of playing around with anyway at Cosworth?
[52:57.400 -> 52:59.520] Yeah, the engine manufacturers all brought it
[52:59.520 -> 53:01.320] to the table at different times.
[53:01.320 -> 53:03.720] And honestly, I would probably say that we were a bit late
[53:03.720 -> 53:05.880] to the party in that one with Cosworth.
[53:07.000 -> 53:09.000] Cold blowing is something that we were aware of
[53:09.000 -> 53:11.920] and doing, hot blowing, we were kind of aware of it.
[53:11.920 -> 53:16.320] And I remember, I think it was the 2011 track test
[53:17.440 -> 53:20.720] where the first on-track running was done
[53:20.720 -> 53:22.760] with hot blowing for some of the other teams.
[53:22.760 -> 53:24.960] And immediately, obviously our track side guys
[53:24.960 -> 53:26.480] came back saying, hang on a minute.
[53:26.640 -> 53:29.840] This sounds weird, much as you were talking about and the general
[53:29.840 -> 53:30.900] public were talking about.
[53:30.900 -> 53:35.300] So yeah, at that point we, we worked out that there was another
[53:35.700 -> 53:37.600] element of this blowing game.
[53:38.060 -> 53:40.900] Um, and it was time for us to kind of investigate that and,
[53:40.980 -> 53:42.480] and deliver something equivalent.
[53:43.260 -> 53:44.120] So that's fascinating.
[53:44.120 -> 53:49.440] So it's a nice, it's a nice day. You're sitting at lunch, having your lunch, and somebody runs in and
[53:49.440 -> 53:52.560] was like, right, we need to start doing this and looking into this.
[53:52.560 -> 53:54.440] So how did it come about for you guys?
[53:54.440 -> 53:55.440] Where do you start?
[53:55.440 -> 53:58.680] You have an engine, you've basically been sold, right, we need to start forcing fuel
[53:58.680 -> 54:02.360] through this and igniting in the exhaust.
[54:02.360 -> 54:05.560] Did you have to make any sort of architectural, actual physical changes
[54:05.560 -> 54:09.920] to the engine, or is this all just sort of software and sort of mapping based?
[54:09.920 -> 54:15.120] A bit of both, I suppose. Now, the big problem here is we were operating under an engine
[54:15.120 -> 54:23.320] freeze back then. So 2011, 2012 is when this was really happening. So the engine was technically
[54:23.320 -> 54:27.280] tied down, but that doesn't mean that every single component was running
[54:27.280 -> 54:28.840] to its limit all of the time.
[54:28.840 -> 54:31.100] So there was an element of, we know
[54:31.100 -> 54:35.080] that we can do something here to improve the air exit velocity.
[54:35.080 -> 54:37.720] So let's try it on the dyno, see what it does,
[54:37.720 -> 54:41.040] and then keep an eye on how different components start
[54:41.040 -> 54:44.200] surviving, or maybe not in some cases,
[54:44.200 -> 54:46.120] and work out what the weak links are.
[54:46.120 -> 54:49.680] And if you can cover those up with a calibration change,
[54:49.680 -> 54:50.520] great.
[54:50.520 -> 54:52.900] If you need a mechanical change,
[54:52.900 -> 54:54.500] then that's where it gets a bit tricky
[54:54.500 -> 54:59.320] because if you ask the FIA to introduce a new exhaust valve
[54:59.320 -> 55:01.120] maybe because it's getting too hot,
[55:01.120 -> 55:03.280] then they will consider that and then say,
[55:03.280 -> 55:04.880] really, do you need to do this
[55:04.880 -> 55:05.000] because you've actually got a failure or are you pushing the limits perhaps? too hot, then they will consider that and then say, really, do you need to do this because
[55:05.000 -> 55:09.680] you've actually got a failure or are you pushing the limits perhaps? And worse than that, they
[55:09.680 -> 55:13.520] even then send that request around to all of the other engine manufacturers to say,
[55:13.520 -> 55:18.380] by the way, Cosworth have just asked for a new exhaust valve. So you have to be very
[55:18.380 -> 55:25.000] genuine in what is actually a failure and what's perhaps self-imposed or self-created.
[55:25.000 -> 55:29.000] So in terms of the hardware, there were definitely limits.
[55:29.000 -> 55:33.000] And so we went out really with a calibration change.
[55:33.000 -> 55:37.000] And at the time, calibrations were pretty well unlocked.
[55:37.000 -> 55:41.000] They've become more and more tied down, I think, over this period,
[55:41.000 -> 55:46.160] which is something that the FIA were getting hotter and hotter on, excuse the pun,
[55:47.520 -> 55:51.360] as this blowing period became more kind of sensitive, I suppose.
[55:52.400 -> 55:56.560] So if you wouldn't mind just telling me what exactly you mean by
[55:56.560 -> 55:59.920] calibrations, because there's a lot of those maps and modes in this.
[55:59.920 -> 56:04.720] So when you're talking about calibrations, what specifically are you referring to?
[56:04.760 -> 56:05.520] So when you're talking about calibrations, what specifically are you referring to?
[56:10.080 -> 56:13.380] So the entire way the engine is run, um, if we go back to what I said earlier with the torque demand, so the driver says, I want a bit of talk from the engine.
[56:13.380 -> 56:16.020] I've put my foot at a certain point on the, on the throttle.
[56:16.900 -> 56:20.340] It's really then the ECU that decides how to deliver that talk.
[56:20.700 -> 56:26.400] Now, it might be that you give 100% actual throttle position, but you change your ignition
[56:26.400 -> 56:33.360] angle and you create a later burn period in the cylinder, or it could be that you change the
[56:33.360 -> 56:37.360] number of cylinders that are firing. You can do all these kind of things within the calibration.
[56:37.360 -> 56:41.360] So obviously when you're on the straight, you're full throttle, you pretty much just ask the
[56:41.360 -> 56:48.700] engine to give it everything. But when you're in this entry phase into a corner and the driver's only a little bit of throttle position, or maybe zero,
[56:48.700 -> 57:07.040] then you have different opportunities to increase the exhaust flow rate and reduce the torque delivery, which was the big game at the time. a quick follow-up, is this calibration a lengthy, complicated, and difficult thing that you wanted
[57:07.040 -> 57:12.480] to do as little as possible? Or is this because what I'm understanding is you could essentially,
[57:13.360 -> 57:20.080] you could sort of tailor the torque demand to the driver and also potentially the track,
[57:20.080 -> 57:28.220] or is this something that you might have to do on a weekly or bi-weekly basis?
[57:28.220 -> 57:32.260] Or is this just something that was done generally at the beginning of the season and mostly
[57:32.260 -> 57:33.260] left alone?
[57:33.260 -> 57:35.900] It wouldn't really be tailored to the driver.
[57:35.900 -> 57:36.900] It would be…
[57:36.900 -> 57:41.400] So, Cosworth, I think we had eight power units running at every race in four different teams,
[57:41.400 -> 57:44.420] and they would all be running pretty much the same calibration.
[57:44.420 -> 57:49.440] There may be very small differences because you know that the Williams car has a slightly higher
[57:49.440 -> 57:53.120] inlet temperature or lower inlet temperature or something so there may be a little bit of
[57:53.120 -> 57:58.160] team-to-team but pretty much they're all the same. And in terms of how frequently they're
[57:58.160 -> 58:03.360] changed you can change them very frequently but it's up to us to ensure that we're delivering a
[58:03.360 -> 58:08.740] reliable power unit so you don't want to be playing games and trying things at the track.
[58:08.740 -> 58:13.760] So anything you're trying is done in the factory beforehand, and you need to run it on for
[58:13.760 -> 58:18.360] a lengthy period of time to make sure that you are confident it's reliable before you
[58:18.360 -> 58:23.000] send it to the track and let it loose in front of millions of people watching on TV.
[58:23.000 -> 58:26.360] So that's interesting you say about the calibration.
[58:26.360 -> 58:30.840] So in theory, you could almost sort of break certain parameters that you'd say you don't
[58:30.840 -> 58:33.760] want to be 100% oh it's calibrated to sort of 60.
[58:33.760 -> 58:38.120] This, if I'm Mr. FIA, this sounds like an absolute headache and a nightmare to try to
[58:38.120 -> 58:44.040] police some of it because as you say, you could maybe try to, it's kind of wading into
[58:44.040 -> 58:45.440] sort of traction control sort of
[58:45.480 -> 58:48.760] areas it sort of could be, but I've got a bit of a question.
[58:48.760 -> 58:52.880] So if it's dictated these calibrations and sort of the parameters and basically
[58:52.880 -> 58:56.200] operating parameters of the engine, you said you were supplying several different
[58:56.240 -> 58:58.480] teams, so would this come from the team?
[58:58.480 -> 59:02.840] Would William say, we want our engine to operate in this sort of window or I
[59:02.840 -> 59:06.840] believe you, were you, were you supplying Caterham at the time, the Tony Fernando, what is catering
[59:06.840 -> 59:07.480] with Lotus?
[59:07.560 -> 59:10.520] I can't remember at the time, cause when I stood by the side of the
[59:10.520 -> 59:14.440] track in 2011 at Silverstone, that was the round where they tried to
[59:14.960 -> 59:19.400] on the behest of Ferrari, they tried to stop people hot blowing
[59:19.400 -> 59:21.800] because Ferrari couldn't do it and the spat the dummy basically.
[59:21.800 -> 59:25.200] So the FIA tried to stop them for that one round, but me
[59:25.200 -> 59:27.840] standing by the side of the track, all the cars, you could
[59:27.840 -> 59:31.560] kind of hear it going on a little bit apart from one car
[59:31.600 -> 59:34.320] where it was so loud and so obvious.
[59:34.320 -> 59:36.480] And that was the Caterhams, which I thought were running a
[59:36.480 -> 59:37.400] Cosworth at the time.
[59:37.400 -> 59:40.600] And they sounded totally different from all other cars.
[59:41.080 -> 59:44.160] So would they, for instance, come to you and be like, we
[59:44.160 -> 59:45.920] still want to kind of do this, or we
[59:45.920 -> 59:49.120] want to run the engine totally differently, and would you accept those requests?
[59:50.240 -> 59:55.920] It was a little bit more driven the other way in many ways. So I think the idea of blowing and
[59:55.920 -> 01:00:00.320] improving the amount, improving the effectiveness of that blowing from cold to hot, etc.
[01:00:00.880 -> 01:00:06.280] was a request from the team because it was a team performance improvement. It didn't make the engine faster,
[01:00:06.280 -> 01:00:07.840] but it made the car faster.
[01:00:07.840 -> 01:00:09.360] So that initially came from the team,
[01:00:09.360 -> 01:00:12.120] but once we started developing it,
[01:00:12.120 -> 01:00:16.880] if you then start expelling air that's hundreds of degrees
[01:00:16.880 -> 01:00:19.240] straight into the sides of the diffuser,
[01:00:19.240 -> 01:00:20.600] it's then on the teams to make sure
[01:00:20.600 -> 01:00:22.080] that the parts can survive.
[01:00:22.080 -> 01:00:24.840] So the carbon diffusers initially were really struggling
[01:00:24.840 -> 01:00:29.760] and they ended up with metallic inserts and heat shields and things like that. So it's also back
[01:00:29.760 -> 01:00:34.560] on the team a little bit of if we as Cosworth say you can have this, it may be that they can't
[01:00:34.560 -> 01:00:40.880] actually utilize it. And I honestly don't remember back then any of the teams using it and not using
[01:00:40.880 -> 01:00:45.600] it specifically, but it would have been available to all of them if they wanted it.
[01:00:52.080 -> 01:00:57.440] I think it was probably 2012 that we were more into the hot blowing rather than 2011. And at that point, Kateram wasn't the Cosworth supplier. So, sorry, Cosworth wasn't a supplier
[01:00:57.440 -> 01:01:01.280] to Kateram. So that may have been a Renault engine that you were listening to then,
[01:01:02.080 -> 01:01:06.900] but definitely the Marussia was running hot blowing with, um, with us in
[01:01:06.900 -> 01:01:07.260] that year.
[01:01:08.040 -> 01:01:08.320] Okay.
[01:01:08.360 -> 01:01:09.020] That's interesting.
[01:01:09.020 -> 01:01:09.160] Yeah.
[01:01:09.160 -> 01:01:11.200] So 2011, it was mainly.
[01:01:11.780 -> 01:01:13.080] Red bull and McLaren.
[01:01:13.240 -> 01:01:17.460] And in the first clip of the, the first show that we did about this, we included
[01:01:17.460 -> 01:01:23.440] a clip from YouTube when you could hear the difference between the McLaren running
[01:01:23.440 -> 01:01:26.480] the Mercedes engine and the red Bull running the Renault engine.
[01:01:26.480 -> 01:01:27.800] It was very, very different.
[01:01:28.200 -> 01:01:31.620] So the KTM, yes, probably was running the Renault at the time.
[01:01:31.620 -> 01:01:35.960] So the FIA then moved the exhaust positions for 2012 and to take
[01:01:35.960 -> 01:01:37.220] advantage of the Coanda effect.
[01:01:37.220 -> 01:01:39.920] And this is probably more where the hot blowing comes in.
[01:01:39.920 -> 01:01:43.240] So this is where sort of Cosworth, you guys sort of ramped up your involvement
[01:01:43.640 -> 01:01:46.040] then, which is really interesting.
[01:01:46.040 -> 01:01:48.880] So, so was that much of a challenge?
[01:01:48.880 -> 01:01:52.920] So this rule set change between 2011 and 2012, you went more to sort of hot
[01:01:52.920 -> 01:01:56.400] blowing over the season, there is an engine freeze and we've kind of touched
[01:01:56.400 -> 01:02:00.160] on this earlier saying that you might need to make reliability, inverted
[01:02:00.160 -> 01:02:06.320] commas, improvements, was it much of a challenge during that winter saying like,
[01:02:06.320 -> 01:02:11.120] because you had a mission objective, you knew you needed to try to increase gas flow sort of through
[01:02:11.120 -> 01:02:15.760] 3D engine via hot blowing. Was that much of a challenge? Did you have room to make these
[01:02:15.760 -> 01:02:22.080] reliability adjustments from, you know, from one season to the other? Was it possible to make any
[01:02:22.080 -> 01:02:29.440] adjustments and improve it from the lessons that you'd learned in 2011? Yeah, it was. I mean, remember that these engines are built for
[01:02:30.080 -> 01:02:35.280] performance and as part of that they have to be durable. When you go to Monza, you end up with,
[01:02:35.280 -> 01:02:41.760] I think, 30-40 seconds of full throttle time, so the engine can survive that long of absolute full
[01:02:41.760 -> 01:02:48.160] throttle. And I think it's now the same, tends to be the same at Silverstone as well, actually, where there's an extended full throttle time. So
[01:02:48.720 -> 01:02:52.640] when we're talking about a relatively short period of time in each braking zone,
[01:02:53.600 -> 01:02:59.680] you can have the engine producing heat in the exhaust, and it's not too bad because it doesn't
[01:02:59.680 -> 01:03:06.840] heat soak. You generate a bit of heat, but then you've got another straight where it settles down to what's more normal again. So
[01:03:06.840 -> 01:03:08.760] there was an element that we could just turn it on and make
[01:03:08.760 -> 01:03:13.520] it and it survived. Obviously, we had limits to stay within.
[01:03:13.560 -> 01:03:15.800] And if those limits weren't there in terms of hardware
[01:03:15.800 -> 01:03:19.200] limits, we could have pushed it further. So if the FIA hadn't
[01:03:19.800 -> 01:03:23.680] stopped the main effectiveness by repositioning the exhaust and
[01:03:23.720 -> 01:03:25.920] development that continued in that area,
[01:03:25.920 -> 01:03:27.820] we'd probably be now sat in a position
[01:03:27.820 -> 01:03:30.400] where the exhaust valves can deal with thousands
[01:03:30.400 -> 01:03:33.320] and thousands of degrees of temperature consistently.
[01:03:33.320 -> 01:03:34.940] And the engines would have just developed down
[01:03:34.940 -> 01:03:36.440] whichever path is available.
[01:03:37.440 -> 01:03:40.880] Back then, as I say, we went from cold blowing
[01:03:40.880 -> 01:03:44.640] on eight cylinder full cut to hot blowing
[01:03:44.640 -> 01:03:47.680] with cylinders fired. And that in itself took a
[01:03:47.680 -> 01:03:54.640] bit of work because the, and if I take a slight step into the world of crank dynamics now,
[01:03:55.200 -> 01:04:02.560] bear with me Spanners, I know you love all this, but the natural mechanism for reducing from eight
[01:04:02.560 -> 01:04:09.000] cylinders down to four cylinders at the time was to run not as a V8 or sorry, not as a V4, but as a straight four.
[01:04:09.000 -> 01:04:25.360] So when you cut four cylinders, the smoothest way to do that and continue with torque delivery to the engine was to fire all of the left-hand cylinders or all of the right-hand cylinders, but not any two on each side, which is really good for crack for crank dynamics and for sort of smooth
[01:04:25.360 -> 01:04:30.400] running and good endurance. But then when you think about how the hot blowing works, if you
[01:04:30.400 -> 01:04:35.440] then turn on hot blowing and you're now firing the four cylinders on one side of the engine only,
[01:04:35.440 -> 01:04:39.280] then the diffuser is going to be energized on one side and not at all on the other,
[01:04:39.280 -> 01:04:45.520] which would have all sorts of odd effects for the car side. So the first real thing for us to get hold of was,
[01:04:51.520 -> 01:04:56.640] hang on a minute, we now have to deliver by hot flow exhaust on both sides of the engine, which was a change to what we've done before. I just have a quick question. I had thought that
[01:04:56.640 -> 01:05:02.080] for hot blowing, the fuel went into the exhaust before it was ignited, but you mentioned
[01:05:05.360 -> 01:05:12.760] before it was ignited but you mentioned firing cylinders. Were you actually creating torque on the crankshaft and igniting fuel in the in the in the with
[01:05:12.760 -> 01:05:18.000] the piston in the chamber itself or was the fuel being ignited only in in the
[01:05:18.000 -> 01:05:24.700] exhaust? The fuel the only injectors on the engine were in the inlet tract so
[01:05:24.700 -> 01:05:28.360] the the fuel is coming in through the inlet valve into the cylinder.
[01:05:28.480 -> 01:05:30.960] And then the only spark you've got is in the cylinder.
[01:05:30.960 -> 01:05:34.560] So you are generating positive torque from those cylinders, which is
[01:05:34.760 -> 01:05:38.280] which is why the torque demand was important, because you don't want to deliver too much.
[01:05:39.160 -> 01:05:44.040] So if you delay the spark as late as you can, then it it tends to explode
[01:05:44.520 -> 01:05:46.360] beyond the point where it's making
[01:05:46.360 -> 01:05:51.600] effective power. So obviously that then puts a lot of heat straight into the exhaust pipe
[01:05:51.600 -> 01:05:56.040] and that high level of heat makes the air very less dense, very much less dense, so
[01:05:56.040 -> 01:06:01.480] your flow rate increases even more. So it's really sensitive to burning late in the cycle,
[01:06:01.480 -> 01:06:09.560] but fundamentally it still has to burn and explode in the cylinder and therefore you end up with in this in this strange condition a negative effect
[01:06:09.560 -> 01:06:13.880] of positive torque being produced. Okay that's absolutely fascinating I would
[01:06:13.880 -> 01:06:17.240] love to spend all night talking to you on this but I'm quite aware that we're
[01:06:17.240 -> 01:06:21.660] running out of time so one of my final questions to you would be from an
[01:06:21.660 -> 01:06:25.120] engineer's point of view and you're sort of working on this,
[01:06:25.120 -> 01:06:27.440] was this a fun thing to be involved in
[01:06:27.440 -> 01:06:29.760] or was this a Royal pain in the backside
[01:06:29.760 -> 01:06:32.480] where you like when you superiors or somebody comes to you
[01:06:32.480 -> 01:06:34.520] and said, right, we need to develop more strategies for this
[01:06:34.520 -> 01:06:35.720] was it a groan or was it,
[01:06:35.720 -> 01:06:38.680] ah, good, this is something cool to get my teeth stuck into?
[01:06:38.680 -> 01:06:40.200] I know this was amazing.
[01:06:40.200 -> 01:06:42.400] I think most engineers love,
[01:06:42.400 -> 01:06:44.360] we all go to work, we all love to make a difference.
[01:06:44.360 -> 01:06:45.040] And this was a real
[01:06:45.600 -> 01:06:50.720] exciting time as a sort of engine engineer, where you could really bring a lot of performance to the
[01:06:50.720 -> 01:06:56.560] table in a way that's quite new and in an innovative way that takes a bit of different
[01:06:56.560 -> 01:07:01.440] thinking. So no, it was really exciting. And there weren't any rules to follow in many ways. There
[01:07:01.440 -> 01:07:05.040] wasn't a well-trodden path. It was a case of we think there's something
[01:07:05.040 -> 01:07:10.640] to go after. We can hear that some of the other engines sound a bit weird. Go and find out why and
[01:07:10.640 -> 01:07:16.160] make the best engine you can. So it was great from my personal perspective and I think all of the
[01:07:16.160 -> 01:07:21.600] engine guys were really enjoying that. It's a shame to some extent that it got clamped down on,
[01:07:21.600 -> 01:07:26.780] but obviously that always happens and there's always something else to go and go and hunt after separately.
[01:07:26.780 -> 01:07:30.640] So, um, as we all know, you'll spend everything you've got as an F1
[01:07:30.640 -> 01:07:31.980] team and a bit more probably.
[01:07:32.420 -> 01:07:35.400] So we'll just keep looking, spending just as much time and effort and
[01:07:35.400 -> 01:07:37.280] hard work on, on whatever comes next.
[01:07:38.000 -> 01:07:41.180] Well, thank you very much for coming and talking to us about this.
[01:07:41.180 -> 01:07:47.320] I hope you will consider coming back maybe and answering some more engine related questions in the future.
[01:07:47.320 -> 01:07:52.120] Yeah, of course. It's been it's been great fun and keep keep putting out all the all
[01:07:52.120 -> 01:07:56.520] the great content that you do because it's it's exciting and it's nice to listen to from
[01:07:56.520 -> 01:08:00.320] from the outside as I wouldn't I would hesitate to say an expert but certainly I've got a
[01:08:00.320 -> 01:08:07.240] little bit more inside knowledge. So listening into what you pick up on and what's more general and what's more sort of
[01:08:07.240 -> 01:08:09.480] publicly known is always really interesting.
[01:08:09.480 -> 01:08:10.480] Great.
[01:08:10.480 -> 01:08:13.840] Is there anything you want to plug before we head off?
[01:08:13.840 -> 01:08:18.160] Well I guess as you can see from my background here, and you mentioned earlier on, I raised
[01:08:18.160 -> 01:08:19.160] a catering myself.
[01:08:19.160 -> 01:08:24.120] So in fact, that's how I got into the podcast because I used to be a race instructor with
[01:08:24.120 -> 01:08:30.000] a certain Mr. Philp who you may know, and I was following him and he started talking about the podcast.
[01:08:30.000 -> 01:08:34.800] So that's how I got involved. And yeah, I do a lot of that whenever I can.
[01:08:35.360 -> 01:08:40.240] Putting it in around work isn't always easy, but it's really good fun. And yeah,
[01:08:40.240 -> 01:08:45.940] I've got plenty of social media channels. So by all means, have a look on Instagram or YouTube.
[01:08:46.300 -> 01:08:47.500] We've even got a discord channel.
[01:08:47.500 -> 01:08:49.440] So James Wingfield racing on any of those.
[01:08:49.500 -> 01:08:52.100] It'd be great to have, uh, have people come and have a look at the content
[01:08:52.100 -> 01:08:52.720] I've got out there.
[01:08:53.280 -> 01:08:58.020] Um, and even a few kind of engineering based setup, help videos on YouTube.
[01:08:58.640 -> 01:09:00.820] So have a look and, uh, let me, let me know what you think.
[01:09:01.120 -> 01:09:02.620] Well, thank you very much, Kyle.
[01:09:02.620 -> 01:09:03.660] Where can we find you?
[01:09:04.420 -> 01:09:06.880] I lurk on the Twitters every now and then.
[01:09:06.880 -> 01:09:09.640] So it's KylePowerF1 on Twitters.
[01:09:09.640 -> 01:09:16.240] And I have a very underwhelming YouTube channel, which isn't as good as James is, unfortunately.
[01:09:16.240 -> 01:09:21.120] So there are a few iRacing things and something from my previous sort of karting experiences,
[01:09:21.120 -> 01:09:23.560] but mainly I hang around on Twitter.
[01:09:23.560 -> 01:09:31.200] So if you want to see some angry ramblings at times go and check me out on there. Great and I'm always at MattPT55 on
[01:09:31.200 -> 01:09:35.600] whatever social media you care to look for me for. Thanks again, talk to you soon.
[01:09:44.480 -> 01:09:47.000] Well you learn something new every day.
[01:09:47.000 -> 01:09:51.760] I always thought it was just a matter of the harder you pressed the pedal, the faster you
[01:09:51.760 -> 01:09:52.760] went.
[01:09:52.760 -> 01:09:53.760] But apparently not.
[01:09:53.760 -> 01:09:57.560] Thanks Trumpets, and thanks Kyle, and thanks James.
[01:09:57.560 -> 01:10:01.680] It's amazing to be able to talk to someone who was there and hands on during that whole
[01:10:01.680 -> 01:10:03.560] development process.
[01:10:03.560 -> 01:10:07.000] His insider knowledge and insights are really priceless.
[01:10:07.000 -> 01:10:09.000] That's about it for this week.
[01:10:09.000 -> 01:10:13.000] Next week you'll be in the company of another of Mr Apex's favourite uncles.
[01:10:13.000 -> 01:10:17.000] That's right, Uncle Joe Saywood is returning to the shed with Spanners
[01:10:17.000 -> 01:10:20.000] to discuss and dissect the F1 season just passed,
[01:10:20.000 -> 01:10:22.000] the one that's about to engulf us,
[01:10:22.000 -> 01:10:26.340] and all the rumours, gossip and speculation that make F1 so much fun.
[01:10:26.340 -> 01:10:31.760] Until then, as Spanners always says, work hard, be kind and have fun.
[01:10:31.760 -> 01:10:50.000] This was Myst Apex Podcast. ♪♪
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