F1 Strategy with Mike Caulfield 23rd August 2023

It’s a strategic special as Spanners and Trumpets are joined by former Mercedes and Haas F1 strategist Mike Caulfield as they sand off the summer break blues. From tantalizing tires to intriguing IndyCar no pit delta goes uncalculated in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast

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# Missed Apex Podcast: Strategy Special

**Summary:**

* **Introduction:**

* Hosts: Spanners, Matt Trumpets, and special guest Mike Caulfield, former Mercedes and Haas F1 strategist.
* The trio discusses the summer break and their anticipation for the upcoming strategic battles in Formula One.

* **Main Discussion:**

* **IndyCar vs. Formula One:**

* Mike shares his observations from the Indianapolis Road Course event, which featured both IndyCar and NASCAR races.
* He highlights the sense of community and camaraderie among IndyCar teams, contrasting it with the more competitive atmosphere in Formula One.
* The hosts discuss the reasons behind IndyCar's lagging popularity compared to Formula One, including the smaller team sizes, lower technology levels, and lack of global appeal.

* **Strategic Elements in IndyCar:**

* Mike emphasizes the importance of push-to-pass in IndyCar, which allows drivers to use a power boost for overtaking and defense.
* He suggests that Formula One could benefit from implementing a similar system, potentially by limiting DRS usage and making it more tactical.

* **Fuel Saving and Tire Management:**

* Mike discusses the strategic implications of fuel saving and tire management in Formula One.
* He expresses his disagreement with the decision to scrap the 110-kilo fuel limit, arguing that it reduces the strategic options for teams.
* The hosts reflect on past races where fuel saving and tire management played crucial roles in determining the outcome.

* **The Role of Commentary:**

* Mike shares his frustrations with Formula One commentary, particularly when commentators make incorrect assumptions about strategy.
* He emphasizes the importance of having experts who can provide accurate and insightful analysis during races.

* **The Future of Strategy in Formula One:**

* The hosts speculate on potential changes to Formula One regulations that could enhance strategic decision-making.
* They discuss the challenges of balancing entertainment with the need for clear and understandable strategies.
* Mike stresses the importance of driver skill and the ability to adapt to changing conditions, regardless of the specific regulations.

* **Conclusion:**

* The hosts summarize the key points discussed in the episode and thank Mike Caulfield for sharing his insights.
* They encourage listeners to support the podcast through Patreon or the Tip Jar.

**Additional Notes:**

* The hosts mention that they will be doing a commentary stint for their iRacing series on Friday, August 26th.
* Paul Adams, a listener, poses a question on Twitter: if Formula One switched to tires that could last the entire race, what would be left for the strategy department to do?
* The hosts discuss the implications of having tires that provide no performance degradation, concluding that it would lead to fewer overtakes and a less exciting spectacle.
* Mike Caulfield shares an anecdote about Max Verstappen's race engineer reprimanding him for not bringing the tires in gently enough during a race. He explains the importance of treating tires well to preserve their performance. Sure, here is a detailed summary of the podcast episode transcript you provided, organized into clear sections and covering the main points discussed:

**Tire Allocations and Strategy:**

* Pirelli introduced new tire constructions at Silverstone, but teams didn't notice a significant impact on strategy.
* The main issue with full wets is that they struggle to remove enough water, leading to spray and aquaplaning.
* Pirelli is considering introducing a 'super intermediate' tire to bridge the gap between full wets and intermediates.
* The alternate tire allocation rule, which was tested in Budapest, worked well, but it remains to be seen if it will be effective at other tracks like Monza.

**Tire Warm-Ups and Blankets:**

* Mike Caulfield was in favor of removing tire warmers as it adds a different strategic element and can lead to more overtakes on track.
* Removing tire warmers won't necessarily make racing less safe, as IndyCar successfully runs without them.
* Teams currently have to follow strict regulations regarding tire blankets, so there's less scope for trickery.
* In the past, teams invested significant resources in researching and optimizing tire blanket usage.

**Quick-Fire Questions from Listeners:**

* Jordan asks if there are tracks where strategy alone can't overcome a car's inherent lack of pace.
* Caulfield agrees that some tracks, like Monaco, are more difficult to overcome with strategy alone.

* Ben asks if teams should be allowed to use data from previous races to help with strategy.
* Caulfield believes that using data from previous races can be beneficial, especially for newer teams or drivers.

* Matt asks if there's a way to make tire strategy more interesting for fans.
* Caulfield suggests that teams could be required to use a wider range of tires during a race, forcing them to make more strategic decisions.

**Overall Takeaway:**

The podcast episode delves into various aspects of tire strategy in Formula One, including the challenges of wet weather conditions, the potential benefits of removing tire warmers, and the role of data and innovation in optimizing tire usage. The discussion also highlights the importance of strategy in overcoming car limitations and the potential for rule changes to make tire strategy more exciting for fans. ## Missed Apex Podcast: Strategic Special with Mike Caulfield

**Introduction:**
- The podcast begins with a discussion about the summer break and the anticipation for the upcoming races.
- The hosts, Spanners and Trumpets, welcome former Mercedes and Haas F1 strategist Mike Caulfield as their guest.

**Strategies in Formula One:**
- The podcast delves into the strategies employed in Formula One racing, particularly in situations where a car is significantly slower than its competitors.
- Caulfield explains that in such cases, teams often rely on outside influences, such as weather or accidents, to gain positions.
- He highlights the challenges of devising strategies for slower cars and the limited potential for gaining significant positions.

**Hulkenberg vs. Magnussen:**
- A listener asks about the performance of Nico Hulkenberg compared to Kevin Magnussen at Haas.
- Caulfield expresses his belief that Hulkenberg's strong qualifying performances have been a key factor in his success, despite the car's limitations in races.
- He attributes Hulkenberg's resurgence to his experience and motivation after a brief hiatus from F1.

**Ferrari's Struggles:**
- The discussion turns to Ferrari's strategic issues and the team's overall performance.
- Caulfield suggests that Ferrari's strategists may be attempting to compensate for flaws elsewhere in the car or team.
- He emphasizes the need for a comprehensive approach to address Ferrari's challenges and improve their race-day performance.

**Mike Caulfield's Insights:**
- Caulfield shares his perspective on the role of strategists in Formula One and the challenges they face.
- He highlights the importance of strategists adapting to different situations and making difficult decisions to maximize results.
- Caulfield also emphasizes the need for strategists to be proactive and innovative in their approach.

**Conclusion:**
- The podcast concludes with the hosts thanking Caulfield for his insights and encouraging listeners to follow him on social media.
- They remind listeners about the upcoming Dutch Grand Prix review and invite them to join the conversation.

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[01:02.840 -> 01:10.560] You are listening to Miss apex podcast we live f1
[01:19.440 -> 01:24.800] welcome to missed apex podcast yes yes I know again but if I get a chance to
[01:24.800 -> 01:26.080] speak to cool people,
[01:26.080 -> 01:26.920] I'm gonna take it.
[01:26.920 -> 01:29.920] So we get to talk strategy with Mike Caulfield today,
[01:29.920 -> 01:34.080] but first, we have a return to the shed of Matt.
[01:34.080 -> 01:35.400] Two rumpets.
[01:35.400 -> 01:38.000] Matt, I don't think we've been on a show together
[01:38.000 -> 01:39.520] in the whole of August.
[01:39.520 -> 01:44.520] Yeah, it's been a weird bit of a vacation
[01:48.600 -> 01:49.600] that wasn't really a vacation as I've been basically working the entire time.
[01:49.600 -> 01:54.440] Yeah, and I wasn't allowed on your special Tech Time show with your special friend, Summers.
[01:54.440 -> 01:58.920] Well, you know, your snoring might have interrupted the audio a bit.
[01:58.920 -> 01:59.920] It might have done.
[01:59.920 -> 02:03.040] And I'm visiting Summers on his island.
[02:03.040 -> 02:04.040] He's got an island.
[02:04.040 -> 02:05.000] It's called the Isle of Wight. It takes an hour to sail over there. So I'm going to have a real life pint with Summers on his island. He's got an island. It's called the Isle of Wight.
[02:05.000 -> 02:06.920] It takes an hour to sail over there.
[02:06.920 -> 02:09.400] So I'm gonna have a real life pint with Summers.
[02:09.400 -> 02:11.200] And I've already asked permission.
[02:11.200 -> 02:14.520] I'm as allowed as many beers as she says I can have.
[02:14.520 -> 02:15.960] Very nice.
[02:15.960 -> 02:18.120] So I assume the length of the journey
[02:18.120 -> 02:20.600] is because you're bringing your vehicle with you.
[02:20.600 -> 02:22.880] Yes, otherwise we'd be able to just hop across.
[02:22.880 -> 02:27.560] But yes, so I will get to speak to Summers and I won't talk to him about tech at all.
[02:27.560 -> 02:29.800] Instead he'll force me to talk about golf, I'm sure.
[02:29.800 -> 02:31.720] But that's not why we're gathered here today.
[02:31.720 -> 02:39.000] We're here to speak to a man who was a strategy guru at Haas and also at Mercedes, Mike Caulfield
[02:39.000 -> 02:40.160] joining us back in the shed.
[02:40.160 -> 02:41.160] Hey Mike, how's it going?
[02:41.160 -> 02:43.440] Hey, yeah, good to be back, thanks.
[02:43.440 -> 02:46.480] Yeah, it's been an interesting few weeks.
[02:46.680 -> 02:47.360] Oh, has it?
[02:47.360 -> 02:48.080] Has it?
[02:48.840 -> 02:50.320] There's been no F1.
[02:50.320 -> 02:51.360] What have you been doing then?
[02:51.920 -> 02:58.520] I've been sampling some other bombs of motorsports and other sports to do a
[02:58.520 -> 02:59.760] bit of compare and contrast.
[03:00.200 -> 03:00.800] I see.
[03:00.800 -> 03:01.160] Okay.
[03:01.160 -> 03:05.600] I'm assuming this is in a professional capacity, but I shan't pry, Mike, I shan't
[03:05.600 -> 03:12.600] pry, but where did you go then? Because obviously, we come under fire for not watching enough
[03:12.600 -> 03:18.620] non-F1 motorsport, and I mean, it's sort of fair, I'll watch Formula E and I'll catch
[03:18.620 -> 03:25.640] things if they're on, or if I'm going to an event, but I don't follow any series really apart from Formula
[03:25.640 -> 03:31.240] One, Formula E. Before your trips this summer, were you much in the same boat?
[03:31.240 -> 03:39.520] Yes. I mean, I've started to dabble a little bit in IndyCar over the last couple of seasons
[03:39.520 -> 03:45.520] from a professional sense. And yeah, I went over this a couple of weeks ago to the Indianapolis Road
[03:45.520 -> 03:50.160] Courser event, which had both IndyCar and NASCAR racing on the same weekend.
[03:50.160 -> 03:51.040] Oh, wow.
[03:51.040 -> 03:57.440] That was very, very interesting to see how teams do things there and got to meet a few
[03:57.440 -> 04:02.400] people, got to catch up with Roman. So that was, yeah, it was quite a good weekend.
[04:02.400 -> 04:09.800] That sounds nice. Well, I have to admit, of those two, we should be watching a bit more IndyCar.
[04:09.840 -> 04:13.200] And I've got a feeling that it's a sport that's on the up a little bit.
[04:13.200 -> 04:15.000] Is that the sense you're getting from the industry, Mike?
[04:15.480 -> 04:16.280] Yeah, definitely.
[04:16.280 -> 04:20.600] And I think a lot of things they're trying to do over there is they know
[04:20.600 -> 04:28.840] they're, I think they fully admit they're behind F1 in terms of kind of the technology, the kind of everything about it in a sense.
[04:28.840 -> 04:34.540] I mean, it kind of cast me back to working in F1 when I first came in back in the mid
[04:34.540 -> 04:39.380] 2000s, whereas the teams are much smaller than F1 teams.
[04:39.380 -> 04:44.080] There's like the technology there isn't quite there, but it's good.
[04:44.080 -> 04:46.960] There's a very good sense of community.
[04:46.960 -> 04:52.000] And it's like all the trucks are kind of very, none of these kind of huge motor
[04:52.000 -> 04:56.160] homes or anything, it's all just kind of working in the trucks, like the truck offices.
[04:56.160 -> 05:03.600] So again, back to kind of where Wefon was 10, 15 years ago, but it felt just a bit nice.
[05:03.600 -> 05:07.080] It felt a bit more relaxed, a bit more kinder.
[05:07.080 -> 05:10.760] It was a strange thing to be in that kind of environment,
[05:10.760 -> 05:12.840] but everyone's really kind of friendly.
[05:12.840 -> 05:14.800] And yeah, it was really good to see that
[05:14.800 -> 05:16.320] and see how they do things.
[05:16.320 -> 05:19.480] When I hear, you know, I don't hear a lot of Formula One
[05:19.480 -> 05:22.080] drivers and staff talking about Indy,
[05:22.080 -> 05:24.120] but we sort of do hear it the other way.
[05:24.120 -> 05:27.200] And we hear, I'm not going to use the term like chip on their shoulder,
[05:27.200 -> 05:32.800] but they know that they are probably lagging behind Formula 1 in general,
[05:32.800 -> 05:34.000] overall popularity.
[05:34.280 -> 05:37.240] At the moment, is there a sense of like, hey, we've got a good product.
[05:37.240 -> 05:41.240] And whenever I've seen clips or caught a little bit of it, it really does look
[05:41.240 -> 05:43.320] like they have a good product there.
[05:43.320 -> 05:49.800] So why is it that they don't stand out as much as Formula One at the moment?
[05:49.800 -> 05:53.360] I think it's difficult to say in terms of...
[05:53.360 -> 05:57.240] Because obviously it's mainly an American market and they've never...
[05:57.240 -> 05:59.880] In quite a lot of American sports, they've never...
[05:59.880 -> 06:04.720] And this is me reading between the lines, but they're not looking for that global appeal.
[06:04.720 -> 06:09.080] They're not looking for that kind of, we want to conquer the world aspect of it.
[06:09.080 -> 06:14.560] And that says they just want to try and be good around America, around the US.
[06:14.560 -> 06:20.440] So I think in that sense, they've obviously competing with the NASCAR market, which is
[06:20.440 -> 06:25.700] huge over there, which is obviously something again, which isn't, isn't big
[06:26.260 -> 06:30.740] elsewhere in the world, but it's absolutely massive in the U S and it, so to refer,
[06:30.740 -> 06:34.140] and that's the example, obviously we're in Indianapolis for the race.
[06:34.140 -> 06:36.940] And I think the crowd was actually bigger for the NASCAR race
[06:36.940 -> 06:38.480] than it was for the IndyCar race.
[06:38.580 -> 06:42.740] Even though it's not in the kind of traditional heartlands of the NASCAR
[06:42.740 -> 06:45.760] country, it still gets a huge following through there.
[06:45.760 -> 06:52.720] Whereas the IndyCar wasn't as, as, as kind of supported. So it's like you're saying that
[06:52.720 -> 06:58.240] aspect, you go to any F1 race, it'll be very strange to see empty grandstands. Whereas you
[06:58.240 -> 07:02.960] still see in like even Indianapolis, there's like down the South finish straight, there's big bits
[07:02.960 -> 07:07.600] of it bannered off with kind of sponsors and flags, et cetera.
[07:07.600 -> 07:13.340] And the grandstand's not open for the fans, which so that I know it's a huge, huge arena.
[07:13.340 -> 07:19.120] So there's probably still quite a fair few spectators there, but that's that kind of,
[07:19.120 -> 07:22.220] yeah, I don't really know the full reasons behind that.
[07:22.220 -> 07:26.080] Maybe Matt knows a bit more on that side of things than me.
[07:26.680 -> 07:26.860] Yeah.
[07:26.860 -> 07:31.280] Well, the most interesting thing to me about IndyCar, because this
[07:31.280 -> 07:37.400] was a sport that I watched growing up, is that, unlike Formula One, where we
[07:37.400 -> 07:42.020] had sort of, was it like the Foca-Fiza wars, where the sort of the ownership
[07:42.020 -> 07:45.680] of the sport was at war with the teams and there was talk of a split,
[07:45.680 -> 07:54.160] and I know Bernie trademarked GP1 to maybe go there and actually do that. But that never happened.
[07:54.720 -> 08:02.000] In IndyCar, that actually happened. And I think a major driver in its lagging popularity relative
[08:02.000 -> 08:08.000] to other motorsports is just simply the long-term healing of that
[08:08.000 -> 08:14.320] damage because it did a lot of damage to both sides and they had a fantastic sport, one that
[08:14.320 -> 08:22.160] was much more on par with Formula One at the time and a lot of the lag that you see now is simply a
[08:22.160 -> 08:27.000] result of sort of containing and controlling the damage
[08:27.000 -> 08:32.260] from that and just trying to get the sport back on a footing where financially it's viable
[08:32.260 -> 08:37.860] for the teams and drivers because it's still, you know, it can still have its moments, especially
[08:37.860 -> 08:40.580] for individual team owners.
[08:40.580 -> 08:45.960] That said, I'm curious because one of the biggest differences between IndyCar right
[08:45.960 -> 08:52.920] now and Formula One is the fact that IndyCar still has refueling during the race.
[08:52.920 -> 08:55.480] They do it obviously much differently.
[08:55.480 -> 09:02.540] But when you look at IndyCar, do you see things Formula One, lessons Formula One could learn
[09:02.540 -> 09:05.760] from what does make for the good racing we see.
[09:05.760 -> 09:10.040] Obviously, the biggest thing is just that they have way less aero, so your power to
[09:10.040 -> 09:14.960] aero ratio makes it much harder to control the car and sort of much more fun for the
[09:14.960 -> 09:17.160] drivers, solves a lot of the following problem.
[09:17.160 -> 09:21.920] But beyond that, from a strategic point of view, is there anything that you saw over
[09:21.920 -> 09:25.800] the weekend that you're like, ooh, maybe we should try this in a sprint race and see what happens?
[09:25.800 -> 09:29.520] I think you've broken your record for the most amount of questions in a sentence, but
[09:29.520 -> 09:30.520] yeah.
[09:30.520 -> 09:33.440] It's just one question with a lot of words, man.
[09:33.440 -> 09:35.760] No, definitely.
[09:35.760 -> 09:42.720] I think going through it, I think you touched on a lot of them, which I think F1 is potentially
[09:42.720 -> 09:45.120] the main one is the aero stuff, which you're never going to
[09:45.120 -> 09:51.280] tell them back because he's tried time and time again with arrow to F1 to dial it back.
[09:51.280 -> 09:57.040] I think for me, um, his, one of the big ones is the, the push to pass.
[09:57.040 -> 10:01.440] I think that's, that's a good aspect because that's going to be strategically used and it's
[10:01.440 -> 10:05.320] not just, um, yeah, not just used for that kind of overtaking
[10:05.320 -> 10:07.120] because you can use it to defend as well.
[10:07.120 -> 10:12.480] And that's part of the issue I believe we've had in F1 this season is the DRS trains, because
[10:12.480 -> 10:17.520] the cars are so closely matched now in terms of that midfield pack at least, but you obviously
[10:17.520 -> 10:21.220] have cars which have won two times, which means you get these big trains and then everyone
[10:21.220 -> 10:25.440] has the DRS and then no one can overtake basically and it
[10:25.440 -> 10:26.440] kind of affects it.
[10:26.440 -> 10:30.700] Can you work on your primer on exactly what push to pass is?
[10:30.700 -> 10:35.160] I mean, I know, but just for our stupid audience, no, I don't actually know exactly what it
[10:35.160 -> 10:36.160] is.
[10:36.160 -> 10:43.400] It's, I mean, they said basically they have 200 seconds of overtake button, which basically
[10:43.400 -> 10:45.920] gives more fuel to the engine to more power so it's just
[10:45.920 -> 10:50.960] basically a power boost in that respect. And yeah they've got 200 seconds over the course of the
[10:50.960 -> 10:56.800] race they can use it any time any straight. I think you can use it up to a maximum of 20 seconds per
[10:56.800 -> 11:02.160] lap so obviously if you used it maximum per lap you'd be done within six laps so you don't use it
[11:02.160 -> 11:05.880] and you have to be strategic about where you use it and when you use it.
[11:06.520 -> 11:08.200] Um, I don't know.
[11:08.200 -> 11:09.640] I'm, I'm a bit lacking.
[11:09.640 -> 11:13.960] I don't know exactly the power boost to give, but I think it's, it is fairly
[11:13.960 -> 11:18.040] significant in terms of, you know, it's great to have overtake, but then yeah,
[11:18.060 -> 11:21.000] it's that added aspect for a strategy point of view, because you can look at
[11:21.000 -> 11:24.640] the drivers around and you see where they're using it or how much they've got
[11:24.640 -> 11:26.560] left and try and plan it in that sense.
[11:26.560 -> 11:31.320] And I think this was the initial concept to which F1 came up with, with the kind of.
[11:31.840 -> 11:32.640] Curse system.
[11:32.640 -> 11:37.720] So not the system now, but the curse system where you could deploy that by
[11:37.720 -> 11:40.480] basically pressing a button and that was kind of thing, but I mean, it was only
[11:40.480 -> 11:49.360] seven seconds a lap and I think basically it wasn't limited throughout the race and everyone then ended up optimizing it and using it in the same places time after
[11:49.360 -> 11:50.360] time each lap.
[11:50.360 -> 11:51.360] And obviously-
[11:51.360 -> 11:52.360] So, yeah.
[11:52.360 -> 11:56.200] Well, technologically, I don't think it would be hard to have a button that allowed you
[11:56.200 -> 11:58.600] to deploy more power.
[11:58.600 -> 12:01.440] I mean, they're very kind of, they've got big batteries in them anyway.
[12:01.440 -> 12:04.800] So it is something that could be implemented relatively easily.
[12:04.800 -> 12:05.120] Potentially, yeah. got big batteries in them anyway. So it is something that could be implemented relatively easily.
[12:05.960 -> 12:09.880] Potentially, yeah. But even in the sense of why can't we just do that with DRS?
[12:10.000 -> 12:16.320] And that's the kind of, instead of using it as a, within one second, you use it,
[12:16.440 -> 12:19.400] you have 200 seconds of DRS usage in this race.
[12:19.840 -> 12:31.760] See, Matt, we've been doing it in our iRacing series. So we've been running the Renault 3.5s and you get eight DRSs to use whenever you want.
[12:31.760 -> 12:34.720] And we found it actually tactically, like super interesting.
[12:34.720 -> 12:39.440] So you get to the end of the race and someone's really closing on you and you go, oh no, they've
[12:39.440 -> 12:42.360] got loads of DRS left and I haven't got any.
[12:42.360 -> 12:44.440] But that's worked just as well, Matt.
[12:44.440 -> 12:45.600] And that does simulate
[12:45.600 -> 12:47.320] a power boost.
[12:47.320 -> 12:48.740] Well, yeah.
[12:48.740 -> 12:55.280] And I know that when I've talked with Summers about this, you and he are like the same person
[12:55.280 -> 13:00.920] on this issue, which is limit the DRS usage and make it tactical and controlled by the
[13:00.920 -> 13:02.240] driver.
[13:02.240 -> 13:06.800] And you get an immediate strategic effect and And you get like, I know the
[13:06.800 -> 13:14.800] last IndyCar race that Scott Dixon won. He wound up with about 30 or 40 seconds more push to pass
[13:14.800 -> 13:20.480] than the person that was chasing him because he'd been fuel saving the whole race. So strategies,
[13:20.480 -> 13:31.640] you can start out with a strategy that winds you up with an advantage late in the race, or you can use it to try and build a margin and then hang on to it to the end.
[13:31.640 -> 13:36.520] And both of those things, when we see them in Formula One racing happen just due to natural
[13:36.520 -> 13:41.000] occurrences like tire offset, it's always when we get the most exciting racing.
[13:41.000 -> 13:42.000] Yeah.
[13:42.000 -> 13:43.000] Yeah.
[13:43.000 -> 13:44.680] And that's it, is that kind of building up.
[13:44.680 -> 13:46.520] And it kind of touches on, I know this is a hot
[13:46.520 -> 13:51.160] topic in terms of the kind of refueling aspects, which is, which is good in IndyCar.
[13:51.160 -> 13:52.280] So I think they've got it down.
[13:52.280 -> 13:56.920] I don't, I'm not convinced it's going to work in, it will work in F1.
[13:56.920 -> 14:02.600] If it was ever brought back, I just, I can't, I can't see it working with the
[14:02.600 -> 14:06.040] tracks they kind of racing in F1 and the kind of cars they
[14:06.040 -> 14:07.040] have now.
[14:07.040 -> 14:11.400] I know the fuel tank would be made smaller if they did that but it's only going to be
[14:11.400 -> 14:12.520] made smaller by 60-70kg.
[14:12.520 -> 14:20.640] At this point it's kind of okay but the cars are still 800kg so it's not hugely and you
[14:20.640 -> 14:23.720] don't have that kind of nimbleness effect.
[14:23.720 -> 14:25.500] Then it just becomes like you don't have these offs of nimbleness effect. And then you just get, then it just becomes like, you don't have these
[14:25.500 -> 14:31.020] offsets in terms of the tires would also need to change and it, it, it requires
[14:31.020 -> 14:34.160] a lot of change for refueling to be successful.
[14:34.520 -> 14:38.060] And I think in some IndyCar races, it works and some, it maybe doesn't.
[14:38.060 -> 14:42.660] I haven't studied it closely enough to, to ask it, but I think that kind of
[14:42.660 -> 14:47.460] push to pass upside because it uses the fuel obviously adds that extra strategic
[14:48.220 -> 14:52.580] element there, but the one thing which I did like about the kind of
[14:53.660 -> 14:58.640] Which I thought about in terms of the fuel saving and stuff is obviously f1 recently
[14:58.640 -> 15:04.020] I think I think it was last season scrapped the 110 kilo fuel limit and it was 110
[15:04.020 -> 15:05.360] It was 100 kilos before that they up to 210 and now it's just been totally scrapped the 110 kilo fuel limit. And it was 110, it was 100 kilos before that,
[15:05.360 -> 15:06.480] they upped it to 110,
[15:06.480 -> 15:08.440] and now it's just been totally scrapped.
[15:08.440 -> 15:11.760] And now basically teams don't have to fuel save
[15:11.760 -> 15:12.600] if they don't want to,
[15:12.600 -> 15:16.120] they can put as much fuel in the car as they want.
[15:16.120 -> 15:20.440] But again, this used to be back in the previous days
[15:20.440 -> 15:23.360] when it was before, after refueling had gone,
[15:23.360 -> 15:25.120] but back in the old,
[15:25.120 -> 15:29.160] um, old engines, the V6s fuel saving was a big part of it.
[15:29.160 -> 15:31.440] So you'd look at when you'd optimize your fuel saving.
[15:31.440 -> 15:34.840] And again, it provides a strategic option.
[15:34.840 -> 15:38.720] So I don't really understand why F1 went down the route of making the
[15:38.720 -> 15:40.280] fuel tanks bigger and reducing that.
[15:40.280 -> 15:44.880] Because all right, if they saying that the race is going to cost 105 kilos
[15:44.880 -> 15:45.200] and you only
[15:45.200 -> 15:49.200] have a 100 kilo tank, it's up to the teams to figure it out or do something better.
[15:51.840 -> 15:56.400] Yeah. What instantly came to mind was, Matt, where was that Formula E race where
[15:56.400 -> 16:01.680] they were basically saving until the last four or five laps? Was that in Phoenix?
[16:02.560 -> 16:06.320] It might have been. I don't remember, but there have been multiple
[16:06.320 -> 16:11.440] entertaining Formula E races where basically no one has power left to get to the end of the race.
[16:12.320 -> 16:16.400] They've just gotten their basic calculations wrong. So I don't know, Mike, there's a risk
[16:16.400 -> 16:21.840] really with Formula 1. Do we want to see a bunch of saving? Because we're seeing less tyre saving
[16:21.840 -> 16:28.280] now this season than previous seasons. But if we have a race where you kind of know their tyre saving and fuel saving,
[16:28.280 -> 16:32.720] you almost have to not advertise it to make the product more interesting.
[16:32.720 -> 16:36.600] Yeah, and I guess this is the case of where the refueling aspect does come into it,
[16:36.600 -> 16:40.200] because you basically go for an aggressive three-stop where you're not fuel saving,
[16:40.200 -> 16:43.760] or a two-stop where you are fuel saving, and that kind of plays into it.
[16:43.760 -> 16:49.680] So yeah, there's potential points behind it, which I get it, but I'd also counter it with
[16:49.680 -> 16:53.120] the fact that F1 teams always figure out a way.
[16:53.120 -> 17:01.120] So they'll figure out a way where they're having to save efficiently and, but not costing the
[17:01.120 -> 17:03.200] kind of performance as such.
[17:03.200 -> 17:05.960] And so like, it wouldn't almost be noticeable, but yeah, I guess in the sense of performance as such. And so it wouldn't almost be noticeable.
[17:05.960 -> 17:10.000] But yeah, I guess in the sense of if you don't have refueling, it doesn't kind of work because
[17:10.000 -> 17:11.920] everyone ends up in the same bit.
[17:11.920 -> 17:15.720] So maybe that's part of it, which is where IndyCar, I think, has the advantage of it
[17:15.720 -> 17:19.240] where you can choose it around that respect.
[17:19.240 -> 17:27.400] We brushed past a comment you made there about them having less aero and you'll never peg back the aero in Formula One and
[17:27.920 -> 17:30.840] Internally, I was just screaming why not? Why not?
[17:30.920 -> 17:36.760] Why can't we ever just you know rip the wings in half go back to groove tires or narrow narrower tires?
[17:36.920 -> 17:42.520] Because we just we seem to have got ourselves in a position. What what Matt? Matt? Groove tires. Stop it. You know, I'm right
[17:43.600 -> 17:45.560] No, you're not.
[17:45.560 -> 17:48.980] That is the opposite of what people want.
[17:48.980 -> 17:54.120] Really what you want is the same level of aero just with more power, similar to Indy
[17:54.120 -> 17:56.680] car, but then your lap times are too slow.
[17:56.680 -> 18:00.200] You're stuck with the aero and you're stuck with the good tires.
[18:00.200 -> 18:04.480] Nobody wants squishy treads on their tires unless it's wet.
[18:04.480 -> 18:11.120] Yeah, but, but you know, you know, if, look, be honest, Mike, what is a better race at the moment, an F1
[18:11.120 -> 18:13.400] race or an Indy race?
[18:13.400 -> 18:16.480] I think majority Indy car race.
[18:16.480 -> 18:18.760] I'm going to say, it's an interesting one.
[18:18.760 -> 18:23.040] Again, you come back to this race I was at the other weekend and while the Indy finished
[18:23.040 -> 18:25.520] off, it's an exciting race because um, yes
[18:26.160 -> 18:28.640] It kind of accumulated that kind of willy-wolly
[18:29.200 -> 18:32.240] Hold on to the win and get overtaken towards the end
[18:32.720 -> 18:35.360] But actually up until those final stops, it was a bit
[18:35.920 -> 18:39.360] It was a bit well, it was a bit unsure what was happening for a start
[18:39.440 -> 18:40.720] which is kind of
[18:40.720 -> 18:45.560] It's just kind of the issue where you start going into these two, three stops because you're never quite sure what's going on.
[18:45.560 -> 18:49.120] It's so difficult to follow 27 cars kind of saying what strategy are they on?
[18:49.120 -> 18:50.120] Are they in with a chance?
[18:50.120 -> 18:51.120] Are they not in with a chance?
[18:51.120 -> 18:52.520] Are they still got another stop to make?
[18:52.520 -> 18:53.520] Did they not?
[18:53.520 -> 18:58.040] So for that kind of general viewer, it kind of becomes a little bit, well, that middle
[18:58.040 -> 19:01.200] part of the race just becomes, well, we don't really know what's happening until this final
[19:01.200 -> 19:03.040] bit and then it becomes exciting.
[19:03.040 -> 19:05.200] But everyone had that with the refueling, didn't they?
[19:05.200 -> 19:07.680] Where you had commentators going, oh, let's try and count it.
[19:07.680 -> 19:09.280] One Mississippi, two Mississippi.
[19:09.280 -> 19:11.040] I think you can go until lap 50.
[19:11.040 -> 19:12.000] I don't know.
[19:12.000 -> 19:13.760] We never knew who was in the lead.
[19:13.760 -> 19:17.360] But this is also the case I think in F1 at the moment as well, where people go,
[19:17.360 -> 19:19.040] oh, three stop races are fantastic.
[19:19.040 -> 19:23.600] And it's like, well, I don't think they are to personally, because again,
[19:23.600 -> 19:26.840] these early parts of the race, you're like, well, I don't really know what they're doing.
[19:26.840 -> 19:27.600] I can't really follow.
[19:27.600 -> 19:30.780] And then the graphics aren't good enough on the screen to kind of say, well,
[19:30.780 -> 19:32.000] this is what this car is doing.
[19:32.000 -> 19:35.040] So you're kind of a bit lost to where everything is until it all kind of pans
[19:35.040 -> 19:37.180] out with 10, 15 laps to go.
[19:37.180 -> 19:39.520] And then you go, right now, I know what the race is.
[19:39.560 -> 19:42.840] You're just lost in a little bit of kind of confusion in that middle part.
[19:43.120 -> 19:47.620] I am always want to stick with that kind of best F1 races is where you split
[19:47.620 -> 19:51.160] between two strategies, whether it's a one stop or a two stop, as soon as you
[19:51.160 -> 19:56.240] start getting to that three stop territory, it just becomes a bit, I don't know if I
[19:56.240 -> 19:59.760] have like, even as a strategist, like, and I like strategy, obviously, and I like
[19:59.760 -> 20:02.940] doing it, but as a, just a general watcher there, it kind of, you're just
[20:02.940 -> 20:06.480] thinking, well, I don't, I thinking, well, I can't follow what's
[20:06.480 -> 20:07.480] going on.
[20:07.480 -> 20:10.600] It's not clear enough what's following, unless you've got all the data screens, which not
[20:10.600 -> 20:13.920] everyone has, the teams have it, and then you can work out what's going on.
[20:13.920 -> 20:17.520] But just watching on the telly and having commentators trying to guess what's going
[20:17.520 -> 20:19.720] on more often than not being wrong about it.
[20:19.720 -> 20:24.400] I was going to say, how do you find the social experience as a strategist when you're listening
[20:24.400 -> 20:25.280] to commentators?
[20:25.280 -> 20:28.300] You know, they're doing their best to colour the entertainment and they don't have the
[20:28.300 -> 20:31.560] info you have, but you must be screaming at the TV.
[20:31.560 -> 20:36.200] I watch on mute basically these days because I can't.
[20:36.200 -> 20:42.600] I mean, I think the last race was it, Spa wasn't it, the one before and I think the
[20:42.600 -> 20:46.560] first lap there was about four cars making overtakes, even
[20:46.560 -> 20:48.880] though they weren't even that part of the circuit, sort of just kind of
[20:49.320 -> 20:52.560] stroll made a number of moves and yet it was still down in 18th at the end
[20:52.560 -> 20:55.400] of the first lap or whatever it's because it was Alonso making all these moves.
[20:55.400 -> 20:56.440] And then you go late.
[20:56.960 -> 21:00.760] It's just little things where you kind of, they should be trying to kind of
[21:01.320 -> 21:08.720] highlight what's going on or why the decisions are being made, rather than trying to guess at what's being made and even false information,
[21:08.720 -> 21:13.000] hot, which is kind of then misleads people and, and it's difficult.
[21:13.000 -> 21:16.040] They're trying to keep it entertaining, which potentially that's what they
[21:16.040 -> 21:20.220] should try and do, but you've got experts on there and they're not used correctly.
[21:20.440 -> 21:23.040] And then you've got commentators who are trying to be experts and
[21:23.040 -> 21:24.400] they're not experts, they're commentators.
[21:24.880 -> 21:29.040] Obviously we're not saying which broadcast Mike is talking about, but commentary...
[21:29.040 -> 21:32.840] I have. It's the German TV broadcast, obviously I watch.
[21:32.840 -> 21:39.760] Right. So, look, commentary is a very, very hard skill and you'll see me demonstrate how hard it
[21:39.760 -> 21:44.600] is because in our next iRacing round, Chris and Chris are unavailable. So I'm stepping into the
[21:44.600 -> 21:45.320] commentators booth.
[21:45.520 -> 21:49.280] So if you want to see how badly it can be done, you know, check us out on Friday,
[21:49.280 -> 21:53.080] the first for our third round Renault 3.5 at Watkins Glen.
[21:53.160 -> 21:57.240] And the whole time I'll be thinking, oh God, I hope Caulfield's not watching.
[21:57.280 -> 21:59.520] It's going to call me stupid and say, I don't know what's going on,
[21:59.720 -> 22:01.360] but I'm going to call BS Mike.
[22:01.840 -> 22:04.800] All these things you're calling for just happen,
[22:04.960 -> 22:05.860] just happen to be
[22:05.860 -> 22:11.600] the things that keep you employed. So as a strategist or as a consultant, you're saying,
[22:11.600 -> 22:17.180] yeah, we need tyres that produce multiple stops. Yeah, we need refuelling elements.
[22:17.180 -> 22:23.400] And Paul Adams asks a great question on Twitter. He says, my non F1 watching friend asked me
[22:23.400 -> 22:25.240] why they don't just make tyres that last a
[22:25.240 -> 22:26.240] whole race.
[22:26.240 -> 22:30.280] And I said, it adds more strategy to the sport, which got me thinking, this is Paul, if they
[22:30.280 -> 22:34.940] did switch to tyres that could last the entire race, what would be left for the strategy
[22:34.940 -> 22:36.200] department to do?
[22:36.200 -> 22:41.760] You'd be out of a job and that's why you're pro fuel stops and tyres.
[22:41.760 -> 22:45.000] Well, there's a difference between tires that can last the
[22:45.000 -> 22:47.160] whole race and degradation.
[22:47.440 -> 22:50.680] So that's how our first one kind of, when you kind of bring it into it,
[22:50.680 -> 22:55.000] is that actually we have tires which can last the whole race now, but no, not
[22:55.000 -> 22:57.880] everyone, like if there's a safety car in lap one, why doesn't everyone just
[22:57.880 -> 23:00.760] jump in the pits and stick this tire, which can last the whole race and goes
[23:00.760 -> 23:03.880] to the end, because it's not the fastest way to the end of the race.
[23:04.080 -> 23:04.520] It's the same.
[23:04.520 -> 23:07.920] If we've got two stop or three stop races, for example, after the first stop,
[23:08.400 -> 23:10.920] you don't always just fit the tire, which can go to the end of the race.
[23:10.960 -> 23:13.840] You get a different tire.
[23:14.120 -> 23:17.360] So there's still, just because a tire can last the whole race doesn't
[23:17.360 -> 23:19.800] mean it's the quickest race, potentially a one stop race,
[23:19.800 -> 23:21.200] which still might be the quickest race.
[23:21.480 -> 23:25.000] They might have someone trying to do a no-stop race, but you might find it.
[23:25.000 -> 23:27.140] So there's still plenty for the strategists to do.
[23:27.620 -> 23:31.140] But I think Adam might be going along the lines of, sorry, Paul might be down the
[23:31.140 -> 23:36.820] lines of, okay, what if they just, tyre choice wasn't a thing, you just had a
[23:36.820 -> 23:41.600] tyre, like on go-karts, you know, and that is just enough rubber to go to the end of
[23:41.600 -> 23:45.840] the race, they could push the whole time. They'd never have to tyre save.
[23:46.360 -> 23:47.600] Would that be better?
[23:48.160 -> 23:49.400] Oh, no, it'd be really dull.
[23:49.760 -> 23:50.000] Yeah.
[23:50.280 -> 23:50.600] Yeah.
[23:50.640 -> 23:51.640] That's it, isn't it?
[23:51.640 -> 23:55.640] The only thing about it, in the grand scheme of things is, yeah, like, yeah,
[23:55.760 -> 23:58.480] in terms of strategies, yes, I would be out of a job.
[23:59.000 -> 24:00.600] There wouldn't be a lot to do there.
[24:00.720 -> 24:09.060] But in terms of race, basically,'re starting, your starting grid would almost be the finish order because the way you get overtakes is by having tire offsets
[24:09.060 -> 24:15.140] and like, or occasionally, obviously if you have a car qualifying position and they'll
[24:15.140 -> 24:19.700] come through a little bit, but the way you get overtakes. So even if you have a car like
[24:19.700 -> 24:25.360] a Verstappen down, if there's no tire performance whatsoever, like the tyres are all rocks,
[24:26.000 -> 24:28.880] providing nothing, you'd still struggle to get by.
[24:32.240 -> 24:36.560] It would definitely show an interest in terms of driver skill to try and get the most out of it,
[24:36.560 -> 24:41.360] but there'll be very few overtakes throughout the year.
[24:41.360 -> 24:45.320] And I don't judge F1 for going down that route. When we're organizing our series,
[24:45.320 -> 24:48.320] we have a fixed setup that every driver has to use.
[24:48.320 -> 24:51.080] And we tend to find ourselves going towards a setup
[24:51.080 -> 24:54.520] where you at least get some overheating and some deg
[24:54.520 -> 24:55.720] towards the end of the race.
[24:55.720 -> 24:57.400] And then that's another element that you
[24:57.400 -> 24:59.600] have to control and go, hang on a minute,
[24:59.600 -> 25:00.920] it's not quite driving the same.
[25:00.920 -> 25:03.120] And so managing that tire evolution
[25:03.120 -> 25:05.120] is almost like an integral part
[25:05.120 -> 25:11.180] of a Formula One. I wonder though, you know, even with rock hard tyres, you still have
[25:11.180 -> 25:17.860] to treat them well. I wonder if you had any input on Max Verstappen's race engineer coming
[25:17.860 -> 25:22.820] on the radio, kind of telling him off for not bringing the tyres in gently enough. Is
[25:22.820 -> 25:25.260] that something the strategist would get involved in saying,
[25:25.260 -> 25:27.500] look, you've got to tell this guy, he's got to go easy on the
[25:27.500 -> 25:30.100] out lap because we need it to go to X lap.
[25:30.580 -> 25:30.980] Yeah.
[25:31.340 -> 25:31.820] Yeah.
[25:31.820 -> 25:34.820] So generally, I mean, it's an interesting one.
[25:34.820 -> 25:37.380] If you're a, yes, that's definitely a thing.
[25:37.700 -> 25:41.900] Well, basically what we have is you'd have an idea, you have a target stop lap.
[25:42.140 -> 25:43.460] You know what the tires can do.
[25:43.980 -> 25:47.300] The way the Pirelli tires are made is that if you push them early on in their
[25:47.340 -> 25:50.740] tire life, it definitely takes a significant portion of their wear life
[25:50.740 -> 25:54.620] out because just, it's just the way they, they're kind of constructed.
[25:54.620 -> 25:57.660] That's the way the compound degrades massively.
[25:57.660 -> 25:59.260] And if you, if you put that initial.
[25:59.600 -> 26:03.640] Powerful bit into it over like one, two, three laps, then it will
[26:03.880 -> 26:05.200] kill the tire performance off.
[26:05.760 -> 26:10.400] I think the way the Red Bull one, if you were actually a Mercedes or a Ferrari or
[26:10.400 -> 26:15.760] has competing for it, it'll have a big effect. I think Max is obviously in very much in the
[26:15.760 -> 26:20.400] position now where he can do this a little bit extra. He knows he's got enough in hand.
[26:20.400 -> 26:26.680] So I think people read a lot into it, this kind of falling out. I don't think these are falling out at all.
[26:26.680 -> 26:29.280] I think it's very much the relationship between the two of them.
[26:29.280 -> 26:34.840] And they're actually, yeah, I think it's, it was a bit, a lot, a lot was read into
[26:34.840 -> 26:38.200] that one, which I think is, there was no issue there whatsoever.
[26:38.200 -> 26:42.360] I don't know if you caught our episode on it, but I was reminiscing that it was
[26:42.360 -> 26:45.360] really similar to this time Paul di Resta was getting
[26:45.360 -> 26:50.800] told off by his race engineer and the live chat piped up and went, it was the same guy.
[26:50.800 -> 26:55.360] So he's got that style, that race engineer, that seems to be just how he talks to drivers
[26:55.360 -> 26:57.280] and presumably part of the reason he's employed.
[26:57.920 -> 27:02.400] Yeah, and I think the difference between maybe a Paul di Resta and a Max Verstappen is Paul
[27:02.400 -> 27:05.960] di Resta wasn't in a car which was going to win by 30 seconds.
[27:05.960 -> 27:15.720] So actually it has the effect of, yeah, it's, that could have cost you a position or numerous
[27:15.720 -> 27:19.100] positions, whereas Max obviously has that much to play for.
[27:19.100 -> 27:24.360] And I think basically what a case it will be as well is that he'll be fed the information
[27:24.360 -> 27:28.320] to kind of like, they'll be looking at the kind of where metrics, the tire metrics,
[27:28.320 -> 27:30.960] and they'll say, right, this is, this is the target.
[27:30.960 -> 27:34.840] This is what we want to go like push into it based on like the sliding energies.
[27:35.400 -> 27:39.360] And Max will gone over it and he'll the tire engineer or the strategist or the
[27:39.760 -> 27:42.720] chief race engineer will have gone back to him and just said, just need
[27:42.720 -> 27:43.720] to calm it down a little bit.
[27:44.200 -> 27:48.100] And then Max obviously has, he knows, I mean, Max is clever, obviously, but he
[27:48.100 -> 27:50.020] knows what the race situation is.
[27:50.020 -> 27:54.520] He knows that basically putting this extra bit of energy in might, might have
[27:54.520 -> 27:58.520] cost him three, four seconds of race time towards the end of the race.
[27:58.560 -> 28:02.140] I don't think it was ever the critical point of I'm going to run out of
[28:02.140 -> 28:03.340] tires because I've done this.
[28:03.340 -> 28:08.020] It just kind of, you maybe fall off a little bit quicker, but I've got plenty of margin
[28:08.020 -> 28:09.020] to play with.
[28:09.020 -> 28:10.020] Awesome.
[28:10.020 -> 28:12.600] Well, oh, well, we've got no margin with Matt because you were away, Matt.
[28:12.600 -> 28:16.880] You were moving your car because you choose to live in the city, but no one even noticed
[28:16.880 -> 28:17.880] you were gone.
[28:17.880 -> 28:19.560] That's how well I did just then.
[28:19.560 -> 28:24.280] I cannot wait to see exactly what transpired in my absence.
[28:24.280 -> 28:25.640] Well, we covered all the tire
[28:25.640 -> 28:29.940] stuff basically so you don't need to do your tire thing now. No, do the tire thing
[28:29.940 -> 28:33.260] now. Now there's a couple of tire things that you wanted to talk to Mike about. I
[28:33.260 -> 28:37.040] know the tire allocations I don't understand at all and I'm completely
[28:37.040 -> 28:41.640] lost on but I am curious about the the new tire constructs. They seem to be a
[28:41.640 -> 28:47.440] step harder. Well yeah and I think this is a great question for Mike because Pirelli did bring in new
[28:47.440 -> 28:52.640] construction tires at Silverstone and I'm curious to know if you'd notice, was there
[28:52.640 -> 28:58.600] any effect on the strategy of the different teams with these new tires?
[28:58.600 -> 29:04.000] I don't think it's affected it massively.
[29:04.000 -> 29:06.920] They said that the construction's changed, the compound hasn't changed.
[29:06.920 -> 29:10.720] So the compounds are the same in terms of the, the hardness and softness of it.
[29:11.240 -> 29:15.560] I believe the construction and correct me if I'm wrong, is that the sidewalls
[29:15.560 -> 29:19.080] have been kind of reinforced a little bit in that bit.
[29:19.120 -> 29:23.560] Um, so obviously that sidewall reinforcement does actually make the,
[29:23.560 -> 29:28.520] the, the, um, the tire acts harder than it, than it previously was.
[29:29.200 -> 29:33.740] Um, I think what the major thing is for what I've seen is that the actual
[29:33.740 -> 29:37.520] warmup, the tire seems to be more of an issue now because of this.
[29:37.560 -> 29:42.360] Um, because obviously you're not getting a light deformation of the tire on those
[29:42.360 -> 29:45.760] initial bits, which means it struggles to get into that kind of heat once.
[29:45.760 -> 29:51.440] Um, but actually in terms of the strategy, I don't, I haven't, I don't think there's
[29:51.440 -> 29:53.600] been a lot of that's massively changed.
[29:53.600 -> 29:56.520] I think Silverstone was, was as expected.
[29:56.520 -> 30:01.760] Um, and then trying to think back, I mean, it's almost two months now, so it's kind of
[30:01.760 -> 30:06.480] already left, left my mind, but, uh my mind but Belgium and and Spa I think again
[30:06.480 -> 30:12.320] I think Spa was yeah I mean looking at last year compared to this year the degradation looked
[30:12.320 -> 30:18.560] almost the same in the Spa race as it did in last year's race I don't think it's changed a huge
[30:18.560 -> 30:23.440] amount obviously the degradation being the same while the cars are a bit faster so maybe that
[30:23.440 -> 30:30.080] actually done what Prelli wanted to do as in obviously the cars are a bit faster, so maybe that actually done what Prele wanted to do, as in, obviously the cars are putting more force through the tires, which
[30:30.080 -> 30:34.080] actually if you left the construction the same as it was last year, and the compounds the same as it
[30:34.080 -> 30:39.600] was last year, that the degradation would then potentially be a lot higher than it was last year.
[30:39.600 -> 30:45.000] So actually that kind of reinforcement of it has made it now more in line, but I think
[30:45.000 -> 30:50.000] I don't think in a bad place with what the tires have brought the show much.
[30:50.000 -> 30:54.720] They, yeah, fairly from a priority point of view, I think it's fairly, fairly, fairly
[30:54.720 -> 30:55.720] good what they've done.
[30:55.720 -> 31:01.960] Well, I mean, when tire no go boom, then, then that's always a win for the teams and
[31:01.960 -> 31:03.000] especially at Silverstone.
[31:03.000 -> 31:04.660] I think they are concerned.
[31:04.660 -> 31:09.720] It is interesting to me just as a note that Pirelli more or less said, well, this is it.
[31:09.720 -> 31:13.200] This is what we were looking at for next season.
[31:13.200 -> 31:18.780] And that both the FIA and Pirelli were so completely wrong about the rate of aerodynamic
[31:18.780 -> 31:26.960] development that they've basically had to move up the 2024 construction to the middle of the 2023 season.
[31:26.960 -> 31:30.160] But what will they do next season when there's even more?
[31:30.160 -> 31:34.560] Well, yes. But I also want to ask, because there's another thing Pirelli's been talking about,
[31:34.560 -> 31:39.600] and I'm curious to get your take on this, which is they're talking about getting rid of the full
[31:39.600 -> 31:45.360] WETs altogether and instituting a different intermediate construction that could sort of handle the
[31:45.360 -> 31:51.120] conditions, the worst conditions we're currently seeing the cars actually run in.
[31:51.120 -> 31:57.360] And how would that affect the strategy the teams are using right now with the two different
[31:57.360 -> 31:58.360] tires?
[31:58.360 -> 32:01.280] And you were in this sport a long time.
[32:01.280 -> 32:06.920] As long as I can remember, people have always complained about the full wet tires that Pirelli brought.
[32:06.920 -> 32:12.560] Would you have liked to have seen something like this when you were still active and actively
[32:12.560 -> 32:13.560] in a team?
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[33:49.360 -> 33:55.360] I mean, this is a difficult one, this, because it's the sense of, right, why aren't the WETS
[33:55.360 -> 34:02.720] working? And what is the issue? Why can't people run the WETS? What's the main cause of that?
[34:02.720 -> 34:05.480] The main issue really with the wets, I believe,
[34:05.480 -> 34:07.640] is that actually, when there's conditions
[34:07.640 -> 34:10.120] which are needed for the wets,
[34:10.120 -> 34:11.520] but then you start getting too much,
[34:11.520 -> 34:13.400] like, because you got the ground effect cars
[34:13.400 -> 34:14.600] and it's not running, you start getting
[34:14.600 -> 34:17.400] kind of almost sailing on the water,
[34:17.400 -> 34:19.200] and you have too much spray.
[34:19.200 -> 34:22.720] So, how, I'd be interested to see
[34:22.720 -> 34:28.360] how does Pirelli construct what they call a super intermediate.
[34:28.360 -> 34:31.920] Which is obviously the whole part of the wet tyre and the intermediates is removing the
[34:31.920 -> 34:33.120] amount of water.
[34:33.120 -> 34:36.480] But if you've got the conditions which are required for the full wet, you still need
[34:36.480 -> 34:38.880] to remove X amount of water.
[34:38.880 -> 34:41.520] So the spray issue still isn't going to be solved.
[34:41.520 -> 34:45.280] So in a race, you probably, if you got to that level, you're still
[34:45.280 -> 34:53.440] going to be behind a safety car or red flagged. So I think that's the kind of main issue with it.
[34:53.440 -> 34:58.640] I don't think it's that people find the WETs are bad. Half the time people run the WETs early in
[34:58.640 -> 35:06.960] the weekend because you're limited on three sets and you never get a replacement. And then you might need them for the race.
[35:06.960 -> 35:10.440] So that potentially needs to be changed if you want people to kind of run it in practice
[35:10.440 -> 35:13.400] sessions and qualify and et cetera.
[35:13.400 -> 35:19.000] But then you've also got to a point now where teams know that the FIA is kind of like for
[35:19.000 -> 35:24.040] qualifying for example, if you get to full wet conditions, they're not going to start
[35:24.040 -> 35:25.640] a session or they're going to red flag it.
[35:25.640 -> 35:31.040] So what are they going to do with this kind of super intermediate condition?
[35:31.040 -> 35:36.040] I'm intrigued to know how they're going to make it different to what the full wet is,
[35:36.040 -> 35:39.200] which makes it usable compared to the current full wet.
[35:39.200 -> 35:44.200] I mean, it's not a million miles away from turning it up to 11, is it?
[35:44.200 -> 35:45.080] What was that film?
[35:45.080 -> 35:50.280] Yeah, you know where they crank it up to 11, but it's the same dial.
[35:50.280 -> 35:51.280] So if you just call it super intermediate.
[35:51.280 -> 35:52.280] To re-drop this, basically.
[35:52.280 -> 35:55.680] Yeah, they're just calling it something different.
[35:55.680 -> 35:59.440] It's a shame because whenever rain comes now and you see rain on the forecast, instead
[35:59.440 -> 36:04.760] of getting excited or interested, you kind of go, it's just going to be a faff.
[36:04.760 -> 36:05.280] That's what it is now. Formula One in the rain is a faff. But again, it's- Well, I kind of go, no, it's just going to be a faff. And that's what it is now.
[36:05.280 -> 36:06.800] Formula 1 in the rain is a faff.
[36:07.200 -> 36:10.160] But again, I think, sorry, go ahead.
[36:10.960 -> 36:14.880] No, I mean, it's, it's, it's a fact, but that's because that's how they've let them
[36:14.880 -> 36:16.160] design the cars, isn't it?
[36:16.160 -> 36:21.840] So because they're so close to the ground now, they just, and there's so much kind of,
[36:22.320 -> 36:26.400] again, it's, it's, it's my biggest bug about F1 is the size of the cars,
[36:26.400 -> 36:32.560] but the size of the cars then create huge amounts of spray and wake and aquaplaning
[36:32.560 -> 36:33.560] in that respect.
[36:33.560 -> 36:38.880] And yeah, I remember chatting to a driver when the new cars came in, so at the beginning
[36:38.880 -> 36:43.560] of, I spoke to him at the end of last season about this, and he just said, these new cars
[36:43.560 -> 36:48.580] are so heavy, but if you slightly lose the rear end of the car, and this isn't even in wet, this
[36:48.580 -> 36:53.340] is in dry conditions, he says it's impossible to catch basically.
[36:53.340 -> 36:59.620] And that's the kind of biggest issue is that the cars are just so not built now for basically
[36:59.620 -> 37:01.360] non-perfect weather.
[37:01.360 -> 37:09.520] So you need to kind of get back to kind of basics to kind of make them a little bit less optimized or a lot kind of less efficient and stuff. But actually
[37:09.520 -> 37:14.720] then it would make them be able to run in conditions which aren't perfect. It's the
[37:14.720 -> 37:18.480] same with that kind of wind conditions. Now these cars are so difficult to drive in the
[37:18.480 -> 37:24.640] east-horizons when like cars were like missing the Eau Rouge chicane because of the gust
[37:24.640 -> 37:26.000] of wind made them almost losing
[37:26.000 -> 37:30.960] and Verstappen almost lost it and they're just so optimized now for perfect conditions that
[37:30.960 -> 37:34.640] as soon as you get a bit of rain as soon as you get a bit of bit of wind they're just
[37:36.000 -> 37:40.480] nightmares. Well as someone who watched a lot of cricket when I was younger you know I got used to
[37:40.480 -> 37:44.640] that where you have to kind of you know a little bit of rain came over then you wait and you go
[37:44.640 -> 37:45.920] and get your cup of tea.
[37:45.920 -> 37:48.920] So well done F1, you've turned motorsport into cricket.
[37:48.920 -> 37:49.920] See what you've done.
[37:49.920 -> 37:52.400] Sorry Matt, you were trying to get in before.
[37:52.400 -> 37:57.480] Well, I just, my understanding of where Pirelli wanted to go with this is right now they start
[37:57.480 -> 38:02.680] a race on the wet tyre behind the safety car, but they don't really race until it's intermediate
[38:02.680 -> 38:09.200] conditions and rather than have two separate tyres, one for clearing the water behind the safety car,
[38:09.200 -> 38:12.700] and then a second one for actual racing, they were trying to design one that would sort
[38:12.700 -> 38:18.120] of bridge that condition, so that you could start behind the safety car, but then not
[38:18.120 -> 38:20.480] need to come in and put on intermediates.
[38:20.480 -> 38:31.360] I'm just curious if you think that's a good idea or a bad idea. Um, yeah, I mean, anything which can kind of like narrow that gap between the two and
[38:31.360 -> 38:35.920] you can get it, but yeah, basically you can start the race and then there might be a mix
[38:35.920 -> 38:40.760] of people going towards the intermediate or sticking on this new tire.
[38:40.760 -> 38:49.400] If it potentially, yeah, it potentially works. I think my biggest, I don't know, it depends how they do it is obviously
[38:49.400 -> 38:53.600] how does the, how we've seen the intermediates where to basically
[38:53.600 -> 38:56.400] slicks and actually then they become actually quite decent tires when
[38:56.400 -> 38:59.100] they're in that slick condition and means people that have the pit.
[38:59.100 -> 39:01.700] Is it the case for these new super intermediates?
[39:01.700 -> 39:09.760] Actually people just if you actually run them in these kind of mid-wet conditions, if you keep them on, they actually transition into almost normal
[39:09.760 -> 39:17.440] intermediates and don't overheat. So that's the kind of thing with the wets compared to the
[39:17.440 -> 39:22.320] intermediates is that they're so different with the tread blocks on the wets, it's impossible for
[39:22.320 -> 39:25.160] them to run in these kind of drying conditions where,
[39:25.160 -> 39:30.240] I don't know, you kind of feel that the risk is that you go to these super intermediates
[39:30.240 -> 39:35.120] but you can't actually run them almost to dry because as the tread wears down, they
[39:35.120 -> 39:37.200] actually become quite useful in these conditions.
[39:37.200 -> 39:38.200] I don't know.
[39:38.200 -> 39:45.300] This is obviously for Pirelli to try and come up with the, with the solution for it.
[39:49.600 -> 39:49.660] Well, I tell you what, why don't I ask you instead then, because now we've seen it in
[39:54.760 -> 39:57.620] action and plus we need to explain it to spanners, ask you about the alternate tire allocation and how that worked out in real life.
[39:57.760 -> 40:02.240] I mean, I, I was excited to see it because frankly, I'm excited to see any kind of a
[40:02.240 -> 40:07.120] different thing happen in, thing happen, just because
[40:07.120 -> 40:11.160] the teams haven't been able to optimize it yet, so you can get some more interesting
[40:11.160 -> 40:12.160] results.
[40:12.160 -> 40:16.480] But what did you think of it now that you've seen it in action?
[40:16.480 -> 40:23.840] Yeah, I mean, I was skeptical of it coming into Budapest, because that's where we ran
[40:23.840 -> 40:24.840] it, wasn't it?
[40:24.840 -> 40:25.600] Yeah. into Budapest, because that's where we ran it, wasn't it?
[40:25.600 -> 40:26.600] Yeah.
[40:26.600 -> 40:31.240] And it actually worked out quite well, but I think that potentially it only worked well
[40:31.240 -> 40:38.400] is because we had the weather issues in, was it practice one or practice two?
[40:38.400 -> 40:41.360] You are anticipating my next question very well there.
[40:41.360 -> 40:48.000] So that actually made it more possible for kind of qualifying and that respect.
[40:48.000 -> 40:53.000] Going forward, obviously we're running again in Monza.
[40:53.000 -> 40:55.000] Yeah, we're running again in Monza.
[40:55.000 -> 40:57.000] So it'll be interesting to see how it plays out there.
[40:57.000 -> 41:01.000] It is that one, I think a few teams were caught out by it, but again,
[41:01.000 -> 41:09.720] because obviously you had Russell going in Q1, but I think that's more down to traffic issues rather than anything else.
[41:09.720 -> 41:16.000] So the reason I was skeptical was because I'm not a big fan of this kind of Q1 hard,
[41:16.000 -> 41:22.680] Q2 medium, Q3 soft, because more often than not, the harder compounds are more beneficial
[41:22.680 -> 41:26.080] to the quicker teams because the quicker teams can effectively
[41:26.640 -> 41:30.160] get these compounds to work easier than maybe cars which are lacking downforce.
[41:32.560 -> 41:36.480] So it was actually, it surprised me that the grid was a little bit mixed up.
[41:37.040 -> 41:40.960] Whether that remains the same in Monza, it'd be interesting to see.
[41:41.600 -> 41:45.360] My kind of, I always kind of thought the suggestion would be that,
[41:51.920 -> 41:55.840] or I suggested it, is that to one of the kind of meetings is that, but we have this kind of, you set a qualifying session per compound, but the team's got to choose what they had,
[41:55.840 -> 42:01.680] but they could only use one session. So for example, you have this season, an Alpha Tau'ri,
[42:02.320 -> 42:05.840] they're not going to struggle at Q3, so they can use their soft in Q1.
[42:05.840 -> 42:10.800] And then you've got Red Bull who go, well, we need the soft for Q3, so do we use a hard
[42:10.800 -> 42:12.440] or medium in Q1?
[42:12.440 -> 42:18.080] And then you get outside in that bit of a strategic element to qualify in that respect.
[42:18.080 -> 42:22.800] But I'm open to see how it goes in Monster to see if it kind of does what it needs to
[42:22.800 -> 42:23.800] do.
[42:23.800 -> 42:26.000] I think for a lot of the feedback I had,
[42:26.000 -> 42:30.000] obviously the main reason for doing this is to try and remove the amount of tyres
[42:30.000 -> 42:33.000] being shipped around the world and not being used.
[42:33.000 -> 42:38.000] I just think, currently, I don't know,
[42:38.000 -> 42:43.000] the drop from 13 to 11, while it seems like that's still quite a lot of tyres,
[42:43.000 -> 42:48.280] I think if you have a clean, open weekend, 11's a real struggle.
[42:48.280 -> 42:53.000] You're going to start getting kind of P3 sessions with not a lot of running, or maybe earlier
[42:53.000 -> 42:58.920] on in the weekend, because people are into trying to concentrate on qualifying in the
[42:58.920 -> 43:02.400] race and don't actually run much in practice because of it.
[43:02.400 -> 43:06.400] I had actually seen that same criticism and had that same thought myself.
[43:06.480 -> 43:12.080] Um, what would you think of a suggestion then to just not return tires until,
[43:12.080 -> 43:13.520] until you get to qualifying?
[43:13.520 -> 43:17.440] Cause right now you have to return them a certain number after each session.
[43:17.940 -> 43:21.760] But if you were able to keep those used tires so that you could continue to go
[43:21.760 -> 43:25.320] out and run the car, is that something that teams would actually do?
[43:25.820 -> 43:27.540] Oh, yeah, I think so.
[43:27.620 -> 43:32.260] It's definitely, I think if you've, yeah, if you reduce the tire allocation, but
[43:32.260 -> 43:38.660] allow tires to be kind of spread across multiple sessions, for example, then
[43:38.780 -> 43:42.460] teams will then start to optimize this kind of running and yeah, more track
[43:42.460 -> 43:46.720] time, the better, especially with like the harder and the medium compounds,
[43:46.720 -> 43:49.360] which then have a like a longer run.
[43:49.360 -> 43:51.880] Because for example, you could say,
[43:51.880 -> 43:53.940] do your P1 when the track's not great.
[43:53.940 -> 43:56.180] You can do some of your short fuel,
[43:56.180 -> 43:57.580] you're doing your performance runs,
[43:57.580 -> 43:59.400] you're trying to get your setup right.
[43:59.400 -> 44:01.620] And you do your run on your harder medium,
[44:01.620 -> 44:03.720] but you don't want to do your high fuel long run
[44:03.720 -> 44:08.840] in that session because the track's not relevant. you can then carry that tyre forward to P2.
[44:08.840 -> 44:13.480] It then allows a bit more preparation. I guess the only potential criticism of this if you
[44:13.480 -> 44:19.940] carry it forward is that it does give teams potentially this more data which we're trying
[44:19.940 -> 44:27.040] to go away from. We've kind of seen evidence for if we lose kind of sessions to rain or
[44:27.040 -> 44:32.000] sessions to, to because of the sprint weekend, for example, but teams come into the race
[44:32.000 -> 44:33.080] much less prepared.
[44:33.080 -> 44:38.720] If you allow them this, teams will make the most out of it and, and, and probably get
[44:38.720 -> 44:43.580] to this, get to a point where they've actually got a lot of data and the race might take
[44:43.580 -> 44:45.040] a negative effect because of that.
[44:45.040 -> 44:51.040] Okay. Well, one thing that teams are absolutely not going to have to cope with is a lack of tire
[44:51.040 -> 44:58.000] warmers. They've officially kicked that can down the road. You're no longer involved in a team.
[44:58.640 -> 45:05.800] So, first of all, what do you think of the idea in general of getting rid of the tire warmers?
[45:05.800 -> 45:11.800] Is this something you were in favor of or against now that you're not affiliated anymore?
[45:11.800 -> 45:13.960] I mean, I never saw...
[45:13.960 -> 45:21.240] Yeah, personally, I was quite for the removal of tire warmers.
[45:21.240 -> 45:23.040] I mean, I don't...
[45:23.040 -> 45:25.960] Again, I go back to the point, it potentially benefits
[45:26.120 -> 45:30.560] some teams more than others, but it adds a different strategic element to it.
[45:31.060 -> 45:33.880] And I've had a lot of people say, well, it gets rid of the undercut.
[45:33.900 -> 45:37.480] Well, no, that's not always true because we still have tires now,
[45:37.480 -> 45:38.800] which have a warmup curve.
[45:38.860 -> 45:39.160] Okay.
[45:39.160 -> 45:43.320] The warmup curve will be different, but, but, um, if you bring in tires,
[45:43.320 -> 45:48.280] which are off the blankets, like with the full wets would create something, which is a
[45:48.280 -> 45:49.360] little bit different anyway.
[45:49.720 -> 45:52.920] And you still get the case of, all right, the, the undercuts removed.
[45:53.080 -> 45:57.040] Well, if you come out, you stop a lap earlier and then the next lap, a
[45:57.040 -> 45:58.880] car comes on the tire on cold tires.
[45:59.200 -> 46:02.040] You're still going to have that opportunity to then overtake them on track.
[46:02.240 -> 46:04.160] So actually it brings into the element.
[46:04.520 -> 46:08.500] You can actually get more overtakes on track because of strategy rather just
[46:08.560 -> 46:10.760] overtakes in the pit lane because of strategy.
[46:11.080 -> 46:13.960] So, and that side of you, I was all for it.
[46:13.960 -> 46:14.640] I'm fine.
[46:15.180 -> 46:17.280] I think it's a, it's a good thing to do.
[46:17.800 -> 46:20.160] I don't have, I've seen a lot of people complain.
[46:20.160 -> 46:23.640] It's always not going to be safe while they do it in IndyCar and IndyCar cars are
[46:23.640 -> 46:25.440] fast, IndyCar have
[46:25.440 -> 46:31.600] circuits where they've got big walls on them and like it's they do it. Pirelli would do something
[46:31.600 -> 46:37.040] which would be safe. It's not a case of it being like like we were talking about earlier rocks
[46:37.040 -> 46:41.600] going onto the car. There's going to be tires which are able to be used fresh out the kind of
[46:42.240 -> 46:47.100] out the pit box. They might take a lap to get performance, but it's not like the kind of bog
[46:47.100 -> 46:51.500] standard road cars totally unmatched to the tires which they're driving on.
[46:51.500 -> 46:55.060] So yeah, I think it's, uh, I don't know.
[46:55.060 -> 46:59.860] I'm not, I'm not fully sure why the teams have kicked it down the road entirely.
[46:59.920 -> 47:03.640] Um, yeah, it's, I don't know.
[47:03.640 -> 47:06.240] On, it was obviously by the time I'd left, it was,
[47:06.640 -> 47:09.440] it was still far enough away that people weren't really talking about it.
[47:09.500 -> 47:13.000] Um, but we're gradually reducing the tire temperatures anyway.
[47:13.000 -> 47:18.440] I mean, yeah, even only five years ago, the tires were 120 on the front
[47:18.440 -> 47:21.280] and 100 on the rears, and now they're down to 70.
[47:21.280 -> 47:24.240] So it's already quite a big reduction in terms of the heating.
[47:24.740 -> 47:27.960] And I know teams took a bit of while getting used to it, but like I've said,
[47:27.960 -> 47:32.600] former one P have a lot of clever people. It's it's I don't, I don't know.
[47:32.640 -> 47:36.040] I don't understand the full reasonings why it'll be political.
[47:36.480 -> 47:40.560] That's the main thing. Most things in formula one generally are. So yeah,
[47:41.040 -> 47:41.380] that'd be.
[47:41.960 -> 47:47.920] I would, I would argue it's because the teams with the advantages now know exactly how it's done
[47:47.920 -> 47:52.520] and they don't want to have to figure out a new thing, which, you know, my child was
[47:52.520 -> 47:55.480] often like this when she had to do new things.
[47:55.480 -> 47:58.640] I wanted to ask about that.
[47:58.640 -> 48:05.520] Do you think it would actually push teams towards making more stops because the drivers would have
[48:05.520 -> 48:11.000] to push harder immediately on the tire, which would ultimately kind of shorten its life.
[48:11.000 -> 48:15.840] I've seen that come up in discussions as a point, and I would be curious to get your
[48:15.840 -> 48:17.320] take on it.
[48:17.320 -> 48:23.480] Well, it's interesting because the whole thing about them tires being pushed harder early
[48:23.480 -> 48:25.760] on in life is usually when they're at their
[48:25.760 -> 48:29.000] optimum temperature being pushed out takes the life out of it.
[48:29.240 -> 48:34.720] If you actually bring a tire in from a cooler point, you're not damaging the tire so much.
[48:34.720 -> 48:39.000] You might get a little bit of surface overheating, which takes a little bit of this like kind of surface
[48:39.280 -> 48:40.080] performance away.
[48:40.440 -> 48:45.880] The actual compound integrity itself, because it hasn't got the heating cycle for it isn't really there yet
[48:46.700 -> 48:50.060] So I don't think I I don't think that would be an issue
[48:50.060 -> 48:54.540] I I think that it's it's when the tires up to temperature and you're pushing it
[48:54.540 -> 48:59.820] That's when the life starts getting taken out of it. I think pushing hard on those earlier. I
[49:00.500 -> 49:02.180] Think you'll make for better racing
[49:02.180 -> 49:04.420] It'd be a bit sketchy on the outlap which is already
[49:02.160 -> 49:05.920] I think it would make for better racing. It'd be a bit sketchy on the outlap, which is already makes for better racing.
[49:05.920 -> 49:09.200] Cause I think that's a lot of the things which people have argued for with the new cars are
[49:09.200 -> 49:14.880] expecting to see, um, drivers fight with it a bit more, but they're still pretty stable,
[49:14.880 -> 49:18.000] but you sticking a set of cold tires on them.
[49:18.000 -> 49:22.240] It'll be, yeah, I'm thinking it'd be a good thing personally, but yeah.
[49:22.240 -> 49:23.040] Okay.
[49:23.040 -> 49:23.760] I have one.
[49:24.320 -> 49:24.880] What do you have?
[49:24.880 -> 49:25.280] What one, what, what do you have one of yeah. Okay. I have one. What do you have?
[49:25.280 -> 49:27.320] What do you have one of Matt?
[49:27.320 -> 49:29.380] One fast question.
[49:29.380 -> 49:31.880] One button on your instrument?
[49:31.880 -> 49:34.880] I have three on my instrument because that's all I can handle.
[49:34.880 -> 49:36.400] Still not very many.
[49:36.400 -> 49:37.800] No, it's not.
[49:37.800 -> 49:43.640] I just wanted to know before we leave this topic, how much team resource is devoted to
[49:43.640 -> 49:45.960] just figuring out the best way to use the
[49:45.960 -> 49:46.960] tire blankets?
[49:46.960 -> 49:52.480] I've seen various team principals comment in the media, but you are in an actual team.
[49:52.480 -> 49:58.900] So I feel like you would be a much better explainer of how many engineers and how much
[49:58.900 -> 50:03.220] time gets spent figuring out the best way to use the blankets over that two-hour heating
[50:03.220 -> 50:05.200] cycle they currently have?
[50:05.200 -> 50:12.420] So now all the, so the current set of system now they've got is that I believe all the
[50:12.420 -> 50:17.560] blankets and boxes are now all the regulated and the same.
[50:17.560 -> 50:22.280] So I don't believe there's any trickery, which can be done by the teams in that respect,
[50:22.280 -> 50:26.880] as in they have to put it on heat and it's heated basically.
[50:27.360 -> 50:32.880] And there was, back when I was involved, obviously people could
[50:32.880 -> 50:37.000] have different kind of boxes, they could get different blanket manufacturers.
[50:37.000 -> 50:39.040] They could kind of have a heat boost.
[50:39.040 -> 50:41.520] They could kind of heat them for longer.
[50:41.520 -> 50:42.800] It was, it was all.
[50:43.080 -> 50:46.720] And in that sense, there was a lot of research going into it.
[50:46.720 -> 50:48.360] There was a lot of people kind of, I mean,
[50:48.360 -> 50:51.400] teams in their groups will have tired groups,
[50:51.400 -> 50:54.760] which are four, five, six people strong.
[50:54.760 -> 50:58.000] Cause tires are the biggest performance differentiator,
[50:58.000 -> 50:58.840] basically.
[50:59.720 -> 51:01.920] Matt would love to be in that room, wouldn't he?
[51:01.920 -> 51:02.760] What can we do?
[51:02.760 -> 51:04.920] Can we get Matt like a special day pass
[51:04.920 -> 51:06.200] where he gets to sit in with them? That'd that room, wouldn't he? What can we do? Can we get Matt like a special day pass where he gets to sit in with them?
[51:06.200 -> 51:08.200] That'd be good, wouldn't it?
[51:08.200 -> 51:09.200] Yeah.
[51:09.200 -> 51:10.200] I mean, they do a lot of things.
[51:10.200 -> 51:11.200] They do.
[51:11.200 -> 51:12.200] Yeah.
[51:12.200 -> 51:15.480] I won't go into that kind of details because some teams will do it and some teams won't,
[51:15.480 -> 51:17.400] and so I don't want to kind of give away...
[51:17.400 -> 51:18.400] Yeah.
[51:18.400 -> 51:21.400] It's just nobody but us here, Mike.
[51:21.400 -> 51:22.400] All right.
[51:22.400 -> 51:30.820] But no, in that sense, there's huge amounts because as well, you saw, which has also been
[51:30.820 -> 51:35.840] lumped on in the TD, there was bits where teams were removing the blankets early or
[51:35.840 -> 51:39.720] they were removing them at a certain point because obviously you've got to hit minimum
[51:39.720 -> 51:47.760] pressures and then it's all about trying to get it to that point and running Actually, once the car goes on track, is it running above the minimum pressure?
[51:47.760 -> 51:51.920] Because you actually want to run the tires lower than the minimum pressure.
[51:51.920 -> 51:54.680] I mean, Christ, the minimum pressure is now on these tires.
[51:54.680 -> 51:59.120] All right, we've moved to 18 inch, but most of the time we're looking at 24,
[51:59.120 -> 52:00.640] 25 PSI in the front.
[52:01.200 -> 52:04.760] Um, and yeah, not much lower on the rear.
[52:05.340 -> 52:10.020] I mean, I remember back 10 years ago where there was no minimum pressures.
[52:10.020 -> 52:14.100] There was, there was a kind of a, not requirement, what's the word?
[52:14.640 -> 52:18.060] Um, a recommendation, but you should be running them.
[52:18.060 -> 52:19.940] And that is usually about 16 PSI.
[52:19.940 -> 52:23.120] And I remember sometimes we were sending the car out with potentially
[52:23.540 -> 52:27.500] down at 13, 14, 14, in terms of that.
[52:28.220 -> 52:31.460] So there was like, that was kind of the big thing.
[52:31.460 -> 52:34.020] And that's a lot of the understanding at the moment.
[52:34.020 -> 52:38.340] And I think this is the understanding as well, which teams do or don't have.
[52:38.340 -> 52:42.140] They're trying to get these kinds of windows is that obviously
[52:42.140 -> 52:43.540] the pressure goes up over the lap.
[52:43.540 -> 52:47.740] So on old Barcelona, for example, you used to want, need to get the tire
[52:47.980 -> 52:49.980] remaining in condition for the whole lap.
[52:49.980 -> 52:52.080] And you, then you have to do your out lap in a certain way.
[52:52.080 -> 52:56.260] And this is sometimes where you get these kind of ridiculously slow out laps, because
[52:56.580 -> 52:58.140] you're trying to get the pressures down.
[52:58.140 -> 53:00.560] So they optimize for the first part of the sector.
[53:00.560 -> 53:05.740] And then, and then by the end of the lap, they're not reaching too high.
[53:05.740 -> 53:08.480] And this is a lot of the work they're trying to do to try and
[53:08.480 -> 53:09.680] get it in this kind of window.
[53:09.680 -> 53:12.960] So it's not just tyre temperature, it's the pressures of the tyre as well.
[53:13.300 -> 53:15.420] And obviously now you've got the kind of minimum running
[53:15.420 -> 53:16.680] pressure, which is monitored.
[53:17.160 -> 53:20.220] So they obviously can't drop behind that otherwise they'll get flagged.
[53:20.220 -> 53:23.220] So that's another element as well to look into.
[53:23.460 -> 53:28.880] Were you at Mercedes during the Singapore Lewis Hamilton miracle qualifying lap,
[53:28.880 -> 53:33.120] where he did that last ditch lap where he'd done, like, I think they'd figured out that
[53:33.120 -> 53:39.920] he basically had to crawl around on the out lap and then sort of blew everyone away by several tenths.
[53:39.920 -> 53:43.200] I was just after me, I believe.
[53:43.200 -> 53:44.000] Yeah.
[53:44.000 -> 53:45.000] That was fun. My memories of Singapore are not as good. I think that was just after me, I believe. Yeah.
[53:45.000 -> 53:46.000] Yeah.
[53:46.000 -> 53:47.000] That was fun.
[53:47.000 -> 53:49.000] My memories of Singapore are not as good.
[53:49.000 -> 53:51.000] Fair enough.
[53:51.000 -> 53:55.000] Let's end up with some quick fire questions from the listeners.
[53:55.000 -> 53:57.000] So nice quick answers to these then.
[53:57.000 -> 54:02.000] Jordan says, are there any tracks where you thought, oh man, if we nail this strategy
[54:02.000 -> 54:06.320] and everything goes right, we're still getting 17th because we'll be slow here as well.
[54:06.800 -> 54:07.160] Yeah.
[54:07.360 -> 54:12.360] Unfortunately in 2020 and 2021, a lot of the time that was the case of, yeah, you're
[54:12.360 -> 54:17.120] often in those kinds of situations when you've got a car, which is, is slower and
[54:17.120 -> 54:22.400] is slower by four or five times compared to the midfield, you're looking for outside
[54:22.400 -> 54:25.480] influences to kind of give you any kind of hope in that
[54:25.480 -> 54:26.480] sense.
[54:26.480 -> 54:31.160] So if you do the right strategy, unfortunately, the main thing, yeah, if you do the right
[54:31.160 -> 54:33.600] strategy, you might gain a position, you might gain two.
[54:33.600 -> 54:35.440] So then you're going to win like 17.
[54:35.440 -> 54:39.280] You're not going to gain the kind of 10 positions you need to score points, unfortunately, from
[54:39.280 -> 54:40.280] it.
[54:40.280 -> 54:46.840] So you need some kind of random occurrence, some lots of cars crashing out, rain, hurricanes, whatever.
[54:46.840 -> 54:47.840] So try and-
[54:47.840 -> 54:48.840] Come on, quick hurricane.
[54:48.840 -> 54:49.840] Yeah.
[54:49.840 -> 54:53.960] Which is always fun because the driver would come and say, what can we do?
[54:53.960 -> 54:57.080] And I say, well, I've got this one strategy, which has gained us points.
[54:57.080 -> 54:58.080] Oh, let's do it.
[54:58.080 -> 55:01.280] If you do realize I've done a million simulations and this has happened once.
[55:01.280 -> 55:02.280] Yeah, I don't mind.
[55:02.280 -> 55:03.280] Let's do it.
[55:03.280 -> 55:04.960] And then it comes after the race, obviously it doesn't work.
[55:04.960 -> 55:05.200] I don't want to do that again. I Yeah, I don't mind, let's do it. And then it comes after the race, obviously it doesn't work.
[55:05.200 -> 55:06.560] And you go, I don't want to do that again.
[55:06.560 -> 55:07.720] I said, I did warn you.
[55:09.640 -> 55:10.800] Or you're there going, Roman,
[55:10.800 -> 55:13.080] we're just, we're in our hurricane window right now.
[55:13.080 -> 55:14.320] So just hang on in there.
[55:14.320 -> 55:15.840] There might be a hurricane.
[55:15.840 -> 55:18.320] An anonymous questioner says,
[55:18.320 -> 55:21.480] has Hulkenberg beating Magnussen surprised you?
[55:23.340 -> 55:24.520] Not really, no.
[55:24.520 -> 55:31.600] I mean, I don't, like, it's a difficult one to kind of say, like, Hulkenberg, Kevin's
[55:31.600 -> 55:34.880] obviously a good driver and Hulkenberg's a good driver.
[55:34.880 -> 55:37.680] Obviously, Hulk's had a couple of years out, but then Kev had a year out.
[55:37.680 -> 55:44.840] And I think it's very much a case of they've been on the game like slightly differently.
[55:44.840 -> 55:48.240] I think Kev struggled a little bit more with the car this year by the looks of it.
[55:48.320 -> 55:54.320] Um, and Hulkenberg's come over, maybe had a nice refresh and a bit on form.
[55:54.320 -> 55:57.160] Um, uh, it's, it's difficult, isn't it?
[55:57.160 -> 56:00.320] One of the like, yeah, qualifying position has been great, but then
[56:00.320 -> 56:01.760] the car's gone backwards in a race.
[56:01.760 -> 56:05.520] So it's, it's even though me and Kerv, it's, it's like,
[56:05.520 -> 56:11.840] I think in the races, they've looked a lot more matched, um, and in terms of performance, but
[56:11.840 -> 56:16.320] obviously Hulk's had that benefit of starting potentially 10 positions higher than Kerv.
[56:16.320 -> 56:21.440] So then he obviously still finishes because it's so closely matching that midfield, he's,
[56:21.440 -> 56:27.800] he gets that good kind of performance. Um, yeah, I mean, performance. I was always expecting Hulk to do well coming into the season.
[56:27.800 -> 56:29.300] He's a good driver.
[56:29.300 -> 56:30.500] He's always been a good driver.
[56:30.500 -> 56:35.600] I think people like Alonso show that you don't lose it when
[56:35.600 -> 56:37.500] you've had a bit of time out from F1.
[56:37.500 -> 56:39.800] I think he's been quite involved as well, hasn't he?
[56:39.800 -> 56:41.600] I think he's still done a race.
[56:41.600 -> 56:45.480] He did a race last season as well for Aston Martin.
[56:45.480 -> 56:46.280] I can't remember.
[56:46.800 -> 56:47.000] Yeah.
[56:47.000 -> 56:47.280] Yeah.
[56:47.400 -> 56:51.800] I think he's raced for every other team on the grid in his sabbatical.
[56:51.800 -> 56:52.440] Yeah. So, yeah.
[56:53.720 -> 56:55.440] So he's getting involved enough.
[56:55.440 -> 56:58.920] He's not like he's totally gone away and not done anything at all.
[56:58.920 -> 57:00.600] So yeah, it doesn't surprise me.
[57:01.240 -> 57:03.120] Stuart Neill's one won't be a long one, Matt.
[57:03.640 -> 57:05.920] A few people have asked about Ferrari. Stuart Neill says one won't be a long one, Matt. A few people have asked about Ferrari.
[57:05.920 -> 57:10.400] Stuart Neill says, as a former senior strategy engineer, can Mike shed any light on what
[57:10.400 -> 57:12.280] happens at Ferrari?
[57:12.280 -> 57:16.920] And somebody else, I think it was our own Karl Power said, how would you fix Ferrari
[57:16.920 -> 57:17.920] on a race day?
[57:17.920 -> 57:22.840] I mean, a lot of people have tried, haven't they?
[57:22.840 -> 57:25.200] I'm guessing in terms of, I don't know
[57:25.200 -> 57:26.680] the full structure of what goes on.
[57:26.680 -> 57:30.560] I don't, I don't know if it's, uh, if there's like, it's kind of decisions
[57:30.560 -> 57:35.920] by committee or it's, it's something else at play, I mean, it's,
[57:36.160 -> 57:38.280] there's definitely issues there.
[57:38.280 -> 57:40.800] I'm not, not just in Shirey's it's throughout the whole team.
[57:40.800 -> 57:44.960] I think it's, they're not obviously capitalizing on the performance they
[57:44.960 -> 57:45.280] should do for all the cold team. I think it's, they're not obviously capitalizing on the performance they should do
[57:45.280 -> 57:51.200] throughout the whole car. And I think sometimes, I'll always defend strategists up and down the
[57:51.200 -> 57:56.800] grid for this, it's like sometimes they're the easy targets because ultimately on race day they
[57:56.800 -> 58:02.800] go, oh why did you do that? And then sometimes, relating back to the question about 17th,
[58:02.800 -> 58:05.400] finishing 17th if you nail the strategy,
[58:05.400 -> 58:08.640] if you know your car's got flaws, sometimes you've got to try things a little bit differently
[58:08.640 -> 58:09.640] to beat others.
[58:09.640 -> 58:13.240] And sometimes that doesn't work and you look a bit stupid because of it.
[58:13.240 -> 58:17.080] But, you know, if you've done the same as everyone around you, you don't gain any positions.
[58:17.080 -> 58:19.720] Or in fact, if your car's got issues, you lose positions.
[58:19.720 -> 58:26.160] So yeah, I sometimes feel the strategy department at Ferrari gets a little bit more stick than
[58:26.160 -> 58:31.320] they deserve in that respect.
[58:31.320 -> 58:37.640] They're potentially looking for options to hide flaws elsewhere in the car slash team.
[58:37.640 -> 58:39.000] I don't know, Matt.
[58:39.000 -> 58:41.640] I think we need to get Mike into a pub or a carting event.
[58:41.640 -> 58:46.980] We need to get some beers down him to get his real, that was a cop out, he's being too nice.
[58:46.980 -> 58:50.680] He knows who's not picking up the cell phone on the yacht
[58:50.680 -> 58:53.360] and answering the question fast enough.
[58:53.360 -> 58:54.740] Excellent, we'll get going there.
[58:54.740 -> 58:56.920] Make sure you go and follow Mike Caulfield,
[58:56.920 -> 59:00.120] at Mike Caulfield F1 on Twitter, on X.
[59:00.120 -> 59:03.440] And I don't know if you've migrated to threads or not,
[59:03.440 -> 59:05.140] but make sure you go and follow him there. Oh, you've gone all private on Twitter again, Mike. What are you've migrated to threads or not, but make sure you go and follow him
[59:05.140 -> 59:06.140] there.
[59:06.140 -> 59:08.340] Oh, you've gone all private on Twitter again, Mike.
[59:08.340 -> 59:09.340] What are you getting up to?
[59:09.340 -> 59:10.340] Why are you sketchy on Twitter?
[59:10.340 -> 59:11.340] Yeah, I just have a little pause.
[59:11.340 -> 59:12.340] I've got to shut down.
[59:12.340 -> 59:13.340] Have a little break.
[59:13.340 -> 59:14.340] Yeah, a little break.
[59:14.340 -> 59:15.340] Fair enough.
[59:15.340 -> 59:19.780] Okay, in that case, I'll put Mike's home address in the show notes below, and you can go and
[59:19.780 -> 59:20.780] follow him there.
[59:20.780 -> 59:21.840] Thank you so much for your time, Mike.
[59:21.840 -> 59:25.360] Make sure you go and follow Matt2Rumpets at MattPT55
[59:25.360 -> 59:30.400] and of course follow me as well at SpannersReady. I am, after all, the best one. A lot of content
[59:30.400 -> 59:35.040] this week. I hope you've enjoyed it. We always love your feedback. Feedback at missedapex.net
[59:35.040 -> 59:39.920] and we'd always appreciate if you'd consider being a patron at patreon.com forward slash
[59:39.920 -> 59:46.440] missed apex. We'll see you for the Dutch Grand Prix review on Sunday, 8pm. Be there.
[59:46.440 -> 59:50.480] Matt will be there, Alex will be there, Antonio will be there. Make sure you're there as well.
[59:50.480 -> 01:00:20.200] Until then, work hard, be kind, and have promise. I've stopped the recording now, I promise I have.
[01:00:20.200 -> 01:00:24.880] Now tell us what you really think, Ferrari. Bunch of turnips, right? Come on, Mike.
[01:00:24.880 -> 01:00:27.360] Looks like there's a red light still flashing in that corner.
[01:00:27.920 -> 01:00:34.240] Don't curse you, curse this app and it's red light. So close, so close.
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