Podcast: Missed Apex
Published Date:
Sun, 15 Oct 2023 21:36:02 GMT
Duration:
1:32:22
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Spanners and Trumpets are joined by Kyle ‘Edgy’ Power and Dutch journalist Jules Seegers
as they feverishly upgrade the MAP chassis in one go. From Perez’ perils to Qatar’s cantankerous weather to the high stakes heading into COTA, no live track gets crossed without FIA permission in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast.
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Spanners Ready Spanners���� (@SpannersReady)
spanners@missedapex.net
Spanners 🔧🔧 (@spannersready) • Instagram photos and videos
Spanners 🔧🔧 (@spannersready) on Threads
Matt Trumpets mattpt55 (@mattpt55)
Matt Trumpets (@mattpt55@mastodon.social)
Matt Trumpets (@mattpt55) on Instagram
Matt Trumpets (@mattpt55) on Threads
Kyle Power Kyle Power (@KylePowerF1) / Twitter
Jules Seegers Jules Seegers (@JulesSeegers) / Twitter
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**Section 1: Revisiting the Lewis Hamilton Incident in Qatar**
* The FIA announced their decision to reinvestigate the incident involving Lewis Hamilton crossing the live track during the Qatar Grand Prix.
* The FIA's president, Mohammed Ben Sulayem, emphasized that Hamilton's status as a role model influenced their decision to re-examine the incident.
* This statement sparked controversy and discussions about the FIA's treatment of different drivers.
**Section 2: Scrutinizing the Conditions Faced by Drivers in Qatar**
* The extreme conditions in Qatar, characterized by high temperatures and humidity, posed significant challenges for the drivers.
* Several drivers, including Logan Sargent, experienced physical distress and considered retiring from the race.
* Former driver Martin Brundle's comments, suggesting that drivers should endure such conditions, generated mixed reactions.
**Section 3: Analyzing the Role of Seatbelts and Safety Regulations**
* The podcast delves into the historical context of safety regulations in Formula One.
* The introduction of seatbelts and other safety measures faced resistance from some individuals who viewed them as excessive.
* The discussion highlights the evolving attitudes towards safety in motorsport.
**Section 4: Debating the Limits of Driver Endurance**
* The podcast explores the fine line between pushing drivers to their limits and ensuring their safety.
* The drivers' responsibility to prioritize their well-being is emphasized.
* The need for effective communication and coordination between drivers and their teams to address potential risks is discussed.
**Section 5: Speculating on the Future of the F1 Calendar**
* The podcast speculates on potential changes to the Formula One calendar to accommodate the increasing number of races.
* The possibility of a year-round season with breaks for Ramadan, summer, and Christmas is raised.
* The need to maintain fan engagement and cater to the preferences of younger generations is considered.
**Section 6: Assessing the Impact of Race Stints on Driver Fatigue**
* The podcast analyzes the relationship between the length of race stints and driver fatigue.
* The drivers' ability to manage their physical and mental状态 is highlighted as a crucial factor.
* The potential consequences of forced pit stops to create shorter stints are discussed.
**Section 7: Evaluating the Role of Wet Bulb Temperature**
* The podcast explores the concept of wet bulb temperature and its significance in assessing heat stress.
* The difference between the wet bulb temperature and the actual environmental conditions in Qatar is examined.
* The reasons behind the absence of similar complaints during the sprint race are analyzed.
**Overall Message:**
The podcast engages in insightful discussions about various topics related to Formula One, including the FIA's handling of incidents, the challenges faced by drivers in extreme conditions, the evolution of safety regulations, the limits of driver endurance, potential changes to the race calendar, and the impact of race stints on driver fatigue. The podcast provides a comprehensive analysis of these issues, offering diverse perspectives and fostering thought-provoking conversations among the panelists. # Missed Apex Podcast Transcript Summary
## Introduction
* Spanners, Trumpets, Kyle Power, and Jules Seegers discuss the latest news and controversies in Formula One, including Sergio Perez's rumored retirement, the ongoing conflict between the FIA and FOM, and Andretti's bid to join the grid.
## Sergio Perez's Rumored Retirement
* Rumors suggest that Sergio Perez may retire from Formula One at the end of the season.
* Perez has struggled to match teammate Max Verstappen's performance this season and has been under pressure from Red Bull management.
* Some believe that Perez may choose to retire rather than face another year of being outperformed by Verstappen.
## Conflict Between FIA and FOM
* The FIA and FOM have been clashing over various issues, including the approval of Andretti's bid to join Formula One and the governance of the sport.
* FIA President Mohammed Ben Sulayem has been outspoken in his criticism of FOM and Liberty Media, the company that owns Formula One.
* The conflict between the FIA and FOM has created uncertainty and instability in the sport.
## Andretti's Bid to Join Formula One
* Andretti Autosport has applied to join Formula One as the 11th team on the grid.
* The FIA has approved Andretti's application, but Liberty Media has yet to agree to a commercial agreement with the team.
* Some teams, including Red Bull, have expressed concerns about Andretti joining the grid.
* The Andretti saga has highlighted the tensions between the FIA, FOM, and the existing Formula One teams.
## Conclusion
* The Missed Apex podcast provides in-depth analysis and commentary on the latest news and controversies in Formula One.
* The podcast features a panel of experts who offer their insights and opinions on the sport.
* Missed Apex is a valuable resource for Formula One fans who want to stay up-to-date on the latest developments in the sport. **Overview of the Podcast Discussion:**
* **FIA/FOM and Race Circuits:**
* The podcast discusses the ongoing tension between the FIA, FOM, and race circuits over track fees and the awarding of new race hosting rights.
* Several teams, including Ferrari, have expressed their displeasure with the current system, which they believe favors established circuits and makes it difficult for new venues to enter the calendar.
* The CEO of Rodin Racing, a denied team, criticized the $90 million annual fee for new teams, calling it excessive and unfair.
* The podcast highlights the recent 10-year deal signed by Qatar, while popular tracks like Spa and Silverstone struggle to secure long-term contracts.
* Spa's one-year extension is seen as a placeholder until South Africa can finalize its financial arrangements and take over the slot.
* **Track News and Controversies:**
* The podcast discusses the recent news of Spa-Francorchamps securing a one-year deal for the 2025 season, despite its popularity among fans and drivers.
* Jules Seegers, a Dutch journalist, explains that Spa's financial difficulties and the high cost of hosting a race, coupled with South Africa's ongoing issues, have led to this situation.
* The podcast also touches on the ongoing debate surrounding the allocation of race weekends, with some arguing that traditional and historic tracks should be prioritized over newer, more lucrative venues.
* **Team Upgrades and Developments:**
* The podcast highlights the significant upgrades brought by Haas F1 Team to the Circuit of the Americas race.
* The team has rented a special garage to work on the cars early and has prepared three pallets of new parts for the two cars.
* The upgrades are heavily inspired by the Red Bull design, indicating a shift in Haas's approach.
* McLaren is also introducing recycled carbon fiber on their car as part of their sustainability efforts.
* **Remaining Stakes in the 2023 Season:**
* The podcast discusses the remaining stakes up for grabs in the 2023 season, with the championship battles heating up.
* Mercedes and Ferrari are neck-and-neck in the Constructors' Championship, while McLaren has closed the gap on Ferrari after a strong performance in the previous race.
* The Circuit of the Americas race, being a sprint weekend, adds an extra layer of excitement and potential for shake-ups in the standings. * **Qatar Grand Prix Preview:**
* The upcoming Qatar Grand Prix is set to take place in challenging weather conditions.
* The race will consist of two sprint weekends back-to-back, a new format in Formula One.
* The sprint weekends will impact the starting grid for the main race on Sunday.
* There is a debate among the hosts about the merits of the sprint weekend format.
* McLaren has shown improved performance in the latter half of the season, but it is unclear if they can maintain this level of competitiveness next year.
* Mercedes is shifting its focus to development for the 2024 season, which may affect their performance in the remaining races of 2022.
* Ferrari has also experienced some struggles in the second half of the season.
* **2008 World Championship Controversy:**
* Felipe Massa's team has requested more time from the FIA to investigate his challenge regarding the 2008 World Championship title.
* The FIA has granted the extension, indicating their commitment to thoroughly examining the matter.
* The hosts discuss the unlikelihood of Massa's challenge succeeding, given the complex rules and regulations involved.
* Speculation arises about the potential motivations behind Massa's legal pursuit, including a possible distraction from other issues.
* The hosts question whether Lewis Hamilton was considered a role model in 2008, as this could be relevant to the investigation.
* **Upcoming Live Stream and Podcast Schedule:**
* The live stream of the Qatar Grand Prix review will be delayed due to time constraints.
* The review podcast will be available on Monday morning for listeners' commutes.
* The hosts encourage listeners to follow them on social media and consider supporting the podcast through Patreon.
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[01:28.680 -> 01:29.240] You are listening to missed apex podcast.
[01:31.800 -> 01:42.920] We live at one.
[01:48.000 -> 01:56.960] Welcome to missed apex podcast. I'm your host, Richard host Richard Ready but my friends call me Spanners. So let's be friends. Join us for our news roundup. And what a busy news cycle it's been. The FIA
[01:56.960 -> 02:01.680] isn't pulling any punches as it admits that incidents involving Lewis Hamilton
[02:01.680 -> 02:06.160] need to be looked at differently as he is a role model. The
[02:06.160 -> 02:10.640] FIA president takes a break from stepping back and gives us hot takes on everything,
[02:10.640 -> 02:17.040] going from how many races there should be, to stepping toe to toe with Liberty over Andretti.
[02:17.040 -> 02:21.680] We'll explore what the drivers were facing in Qatar, and take seriously that person who
[02:21.680 -> 02:29.760] said on Reddit that he spoke to some dude at a car track who said some other dude had told him that Perez was defo super retiring. And we'll also look
[02:29.760 -> 02:35.080] at what honours are left to fight for in 2023. We are an independent podcast produced in
[02:35.080 -> 02:38.680] a podcasting shed with the kind permission of our better halves. We aim to bring you
[02:38.680 -> 02:47.000] a race review before your Monday morning commute. We might be wrong, but we're first.
[02:50.600 -> 02:53.800] I'm joined in the shed by a kindly American, Matt...
[02:53.800 -> 02:56.320] ...two rumpets. How's it going, Matt?
[02:56.320 -> 03:00.640] You think those conditions were bad? Why, when I was a lad...
[03:00.640 -> 03:10.000] When I were a lad, F1 races were uphill in both directions and the cars drove us. That's what happened. You need to tough it out.
[03:10.000 -> 03:11.000] There we go.
[03:11.000 -> 03:21.000] Oh my goodness, yeah. We will explore the comments from Martin Brundle, a man whose opinion I would die to defend in most cases,
[03:21.000 -> 03:25.200] but he has definitely gone to bat on the old school, the drivers
[03:25.200 -> 03:28.600] just needed to suck it up buttercup. Not that he's northern.
[03:28.600 -> 03:31.800] Yeah, but he might not have been entirely wrong about that.
[03:31.800 -> 03:37.180] No, but there's definitely... are you saying that there's some nuance between one tweet
[03:37.180 -> 03:39.400] and then the internet reaction to it?
[03:39.400 -> 03:42.760] I just... it could be a thing that happened, yes.
[03:42.760 -> 03:46.000] We're joined by racer and edgy engineer, Kyle Power.
[03:46.000 -> 03:47.000] Hey, Kyle.
[03:47.000 -> 03:51.000] Hey, looking forward to not upsetting other motorsport podcasts
[03:51.000 -> 03:54.000] or famous Radio 1 DJs by being too good this week.
[03:54.000 -> 03:58.000] Be so good at a karting event with other F1 podcasts
[03:58.000 -> 04:02.000] that two of them publicly accuse you of cheating and bringing ringers in.
[04:02.000 -> 04:04.000] Yeah, called us pros.
[04:04.000 -> 04:07.240] I'm just like, well, we're not a pro, but thanks anyway.
[04:07.240 -> 04:09.040] For context, and it's something we might address
[04:09.040 -> 04:12.960] in future shows, Greg James and Tommy Bellingham
[04:12.960 -> 04:17.960] from P1 Matt and Tommy, I have audio of them saying
[04:18.540 -> 04:20.900] that Missed Apex cheated at the ACARS karting event
[04:20.900 -> 04:23.280] by employing professional drivers,
[04:23.280 -> 04:24.680] and you Kyle got described
[04:24.680 -> 04:25.600] as an ex-professional
[04:25.600 -> 04:32.160] racing driver, Brad got described as a professional but I think that means that you look too old to be
[04:32.160 -> 04:37.200] a current racing driver and you must be an ex-racing driver. Well probably too old and portly
[04:37.200 -> 04:42.320] I'm carrying some extra timber and I could barely get into my race over also on the side profile I
[04:42.320 -> 04:50.640] was looking far from an athlete shall we say. I posted a picture of me in my race costume in my coveralls and the first comment on Instagram
[04:50.640 -> 04:57.600] was oh that poor zipper and I felt sad and deleted the picture.
[04:57.600 -> 05:03.000] I'm glad none of me went up I'm just like I looked at all of them I'm just like oh god
[05:03.000 -> 05:04.760] I look awful I'll leave it at that.
[05:04.760 -> 05:09.440] But looking good having lost some timber joining us from the Netherlands is Jules Segers. Hey, Jules.
[05:10.000 -> 05:17.840] Hi, Spencer. Well, you think I might look better than last time, but I'm currently revisiting the
[05:17.840 -> 05:27.360] incident that had me ending up with two kids that bring flu and cold and viruses every single fall or autumn, depending on where you live.
[05:27.360 -> 05:33.040] So that's my status at the moment. I'm gonna revisit your wife's decisions in all of that,
[05:33.040 -> 05:38.000] because your wife is a role model, whereas you are allowed to walk on the track whenever you want.
[05:38.000 -> 05:45.840] And that is in fact going to be the first news story, which is that Lewis Hamilton is being re-investigated for Qatar.
[05:50.800 -> 05:58.560] Okay, I'll admit that I was ever so slightly miffed at some of the news reports coming out
[05:58.560 -> 06:07.680] that the FIA are going to revisit, are going to revisit the incident with Lewis Hamilton crossing the track. Now, he was already
[06:07.680 -> 06:10.880] fined a certain amount. Does anyone have the figures to hand, Matt?
[06:10.880 -> 06:14.080] Matthew McClure Yeah, in fact, he was fined. I mean,
[06:14.080 -> 06:17.840] why did the Lewis Hamilton cross the track? To get to the other side, of course.
[06:17.840 -> 06:27.160] He was fined. The classic joke. But it was 50,000. He was fined. Half of that was suspended to the end of the season if he didn't do it again.
[06:27.160 -> 06:34.340] And he also received an official reprimand, and I'm not sure if he got any points on his
[06:34.340 -> 06:36.960] license for being naughty like that.
[06:36.960 -> 06:37.960] I see.
[06:37.960 -> 06:42.040] So this is what Chris Medland tweeted, and as far as I'm concerned, it's not real until
[06:42.040 -> 06:43.680] Chris Medland tweets it.
[06:43.680 -> 06:45.440] He said, the FIA is revisiting the
[06:45.440 -> 06:51.760] incident in which Lewis Hamilton crossed a live track during the Qatar Grand Prix despite
[06:51.760 -> 06:59.200] original stewards decisions and then this is in quotes in view of his role model status the FIA
[06:59.200 -> 07:11.960] is concerned about the impression his actions may have created on younger drivers. Okay, so this is the first time we've had very clearly the governing body of F1, the
[07:11.960 -> 07:17.520] FIA, just coming out and saying, we are looking at this incident again, and we are looking
[07:17.520 -> 07:25.880] at this incident differently, because it is Lewis Hamilton, and because he is a role model. And I think that left a lot
[07:25.880 -> 07:32.320] of social media a little bit stunned, Kyle, because they almost said the quiet part out
[07:32.320 -> 07:33.320] loud there.
[07:33.320 -> 07:39.300] Yeah, really surprising. And also at a time that the FIA and Formula One as a whole is
[07:39.300 -> 07:43.360] under massive scrutiny, like confidence in the governing body and the governance as a
[07:43.360 -> 07:50.400] whole of Formula One is at an all-time low and has been for a while. So for them then to come out with all the
[07:50.400 -> 07:53.800] controversy that has happened, particularly at Singapore, they were under fire. If you
[07:53.800 -> 07:58.320] go onto Twitter and read any comment under an FIA article, they are getting absolutely
[07:58.320 -> 07:59.320] roasted.
[07:59.320 -> 08:04.960] So that's Singapore where Verstappen blocked on three separate occasions and then didn't
[08:04.960 -> 08:05.760] get a penalty and
[08:05.760 -> 08:08.760] then they later came out and said, no, we should have given them a penalty.
[08:08.760 -> 08:14.520] We're not going to revisit that because we don't revisit past incidents, but we will
[08:14.520 -> 08:18.640] if anyone else does it in future, we will give them a penalty.
[08:18.640 -> 08:23.520] Whereas now they're saying, no, we are going to actually, we can actually, we can revisit
[08:23.520 -> 08:25.920] things and we're going to revisit what Lewis did.
[08:25.920 -> 08:26.920] Matt.
[08:26.920 -> 08:27.920] Well, okay.
[08:27.920 -> 08:33.960] So they have the right to revisit these rulings in the, in the regulations.
[08:33.960 -> 08:37.640] I did take the time to look it up out of a busy, busy schedule.
[08:37.640 -> 08:46.080] I'm sure they can, but as far as penalizing him differently than has already been done, they will have to take it to the
[08:46.080 -> 08:52.560] international tribunal and have a proper case in which he is also allowed to show up and defend
[08:52.560 -> 08:58.000] himself. Now, one of the suggestions, and I hate to take all the fun out of this immediately,
[08:58.000 -> 09:06.400] one of the suggestions is, is what they said and what they meant weren't exactly the same thing, and they said it exceedingly
[09:06.400 -> 09:13.200] poorly. In fact, so poorly, I think the only thing I've seen get more stick on social media
[09:13.200 -> 09:16.560] was that terrible, piastri is as good as Hamilton article you were making fun of the other day.
[09:16.560 -> 09:19.680] I don't want to call out that journalist. He's had a hard enough week.
[09:21.680 -> 09:29.520] No names need being mentioned. But it was, the reaction actually struck me as kind of similar because it's almost universally
[09:29.520 -> 09:33.640] FIA, what exactly are you even thinking saying it like this?
[09:33.640 -> 09:36.080] Okay, but you can say, oh, well, they meant something different.
[09:36.080 -> 09:39.760] But obviously we can only judge what they say.
[09:39.760 -> 09:43.720] And I mean, Kyle, it's the optics of that are awful.
[09:43.720 -> 09:46.320] Let's say, you know, they are meaning to talk
[09:46.320 -> 09:52.000] about future revisions. The fact that they are only looking at it because it's Lewis
[09:52.000 -> 09:56.500] Hamilton and he's a role model implies that if Piastri did it, or someone crossed the
[09:56.500 -> 10:02.580] track in Japan, I'm sure, and Verstappen crossed the Turn 2 track after the incident at Monza
[10:02.580 -> 10:05.360] in 2021, the implication is if this
[10:05.360 -> 10:08.840] wasn't Lewis Hamilton we'd be leaving this alone. But because specifically
[10:08.840 -> 10:11.840] because it's Lewis Hamilton or quote-unquote a role model we're
[10:11.840 -> 10:15.400] revisiting it. Yeah and if you want to play sort of devil's advocate and really
[10:15.400 -> 10:20.840] look into it it's kind of a bit of a bit of a sort of a diss towards the current
[10:20.840 -> 10:27.680] triple world champion for Stappan. So are you saying that he's not a role model? It's just because it's Hamilton because it's a role model? It's the current triple world champion for Stappen. So you saying that he's not a role model is because it's Hamilton because it's a role
[10:27.680 -> 10:32.800] model is it's a bit, it's a bit disrespectful to the other drivers as well, but in their
[10:32.800 -> 10:37.920] defense, I think they're trying to set this golden example of, you shouldn't do this.
[10:37.920 -> 10:42.880] Now I think it would be very justified if Lewis had had a quite a visible and notable
[10:42.880 -> 10:45.280] sort of scuffle with the marshals and pushed
[10:45.280 -> 10:48.960] them out of the way and then legged it across the track. But that didn't really appear the case. He
[10:48.960 -> 10:53.360] just sort of went and did it. Now, I used to be a marshal, crossing the track was quite a common
[10:53.360 -> 10:58.960] thing. I'm not entirely sure when this rule came in that you can't cross live tracks. Usually it
[10:58.960 -> 11:02.480] was the marshals will give you a gap and you would tell them because you'd have race control in your
[11:02.480 -> 11:05.180] ear when it's safe to cross, but obviously it's a blanket.
[11:05.180 -> 11:06.800] You cannot do that now.
[11:06.800 -> 11:10.260] But so I think what they're trying to do is setting the example for future generations
[11:10.260 -> 11:11.540] and stuff is a bit misplaced.
[11:11.540 -> 11:14.720] So it kind of, it's unfortunate for them.
[11:14.720 -> 11:19.360] It very much sets them up as looking like they have an agenda and it's a bit misplaced.
[11:19.360 -> 11:24.000] It's a bit odd, but I do think there was some genuine sort of reason behind it, but oh wow,
[11:24.000 -> 11:25.360] they've made a complete
[11:25.360 -> 11:31.200] mess of it and they've ended up looking absolutely terrible. I've crossed a live FIA racetrack once
[11:31.200 -> 11:37.120] and it was a Formula E in London and I sort of I was just walking across and I didn't really know
[11:37.120 -> 11:41.680] any diff better and then I heard it, oi! and I was like what what? and they were like oh yeah you're
[11:41.680 -> 11:48.040] not meant to cross there because you know the, the car's a car. And then very shortly afterwards, you can't really hear one Formula E car coming and it
[11:48.040 -> 11:49.040] just goes vroom.
[11:49.040 -> 11:51.200] We go, whew, that was hairy.
[11:51.200 -> 11:56.500] But I think, Matt, what we need now is an exhaustive list of which drivers are classed
[11:56.500 -> 12:00.520] as role models and some reassurance that that isn't a list of one.
[12:00.520 -> 12:01.700] Well, yeah.
[12:01.700 -> 12:08.000] And I think this gets to just the exceedingly poor wording of what was said
[12:08.000 -> 12:12.240] to the journalist or the way the journalist reported it.
[12:12.240 -> 12:17.300] In essence, all Formula One drivers could be considered role models for younger drivers
[12:17.300 -> 12:23.640] because let's do recall earlier this year, there was a carter who was significantly injured,
[12:23.640 -> 12:26.080] pushing his cart back onto a live track to try and
[12:26.080 -> 12:27.800] continue competing.
[12:27.800 -> 12:34.240] And I think it may be the FAA is looking farther down the food chain than the initial announcement
[12:34.240 -> 12:41.760] would have us believe to be the case, thanks to the excessively poor wording of it.
[12:41.760 -> 12:45.400] Yeah, I think that's the case here. Of course,
[12:45.400 -> 12:55.360] and also like Carl said, there is a genuine message they have, but it's framed so extraordinarily
[12:55.360 -> 13:06.620] that it's making more about Hamilton and about certain role models. and then apparently also a couple of drivers that are less prolific
[13:06.620 -> 13:12.600] or new and they are more.
[13:12.600 -> 13:20.300] I think it wouldn't have had such a backlash now and a reaction that's not about the actual
[13:20.300 -> 13:27.920] wider problem, but about the wording is also has to do with, it's not the first
[13:27.920 -> 13:37.240] time that the FIA have made stewarding decisions or have had outcomes from a stewards that
[13:37.240 -> 13:39.360] raises eyebrows.
[13:39.360 -> 13:46.160] And we had the phase where it felt like the stewards would send out safety cars for entertainment.
[13:47.120 -> 13:53.920] Obviously, we had Abu Dhabi 21, we had the cost cap, and all these two instances had like,
[13:53.920 -> 14:10.080] we can't do anything in hindsight. We can't change the past. Now, all of a sudden, they apparently can for an error, a mistake, so to say, that seems so
[14:10.080 -> 14:18.480] innocent. From all kinds of perspectives, it's just the next thing that the stewards do that
[14:18.480 -> 14:28.560] makes us feel like, who's running this sport and why is it so hard to understand these seemingly rules that come
[14:28.560 -> 14:34.960] falling from the sky? Seemingly at random. But I will say, and obviously everyone knows I'm neutral,
[14:34.960 -> 14:41.040] but I would say that Hamilton fans have some reason to feel aggrieved and bothered by that
[14:41.040 -> 14:45.440] statement that came out. Hopefully it was poorly worded and there isn't
[14:45.440 -> 14:51.760] going to be an extra fine slapped on or a grid penalty because that would seem absolutely heinous.
[14:51.760 -> 14:59.680] But what I will say is if just 24 hours ago I came on this podcast and I said the FIA will
[14:59.680 -> 15:10.000] look at and treat incidents differently if it's Lewis Hamilton, that would have been a crazy tin foil hat conspiracy, and I would have been called out on it.
[15:10.000 -> 15:27.400] But now we have absolutely, without doubt, irrefutable proof that the FIA will look at an incident differently if it involves Lewis Hamilton. Yeah, and I'm just going to remind you that I don't think he can get penalized again unless they take him to court
[15:27.720 -> 15:32.240] But it is absolutely in the rules. They're allowed to investigate these sorts of things
[15:37.360 -> 15:41.560] You know, I'm glad we've got an old panel on for this next topic
[15:42.360 -> 15:46.880] Poor old Jules. He had to most of of the Netherlands, people don't know this,
[15:46.880 -> 15:51.600] people don't even realise that half of the Netherlands is completely underwater. You have
[15:51.600 -> 15:56.880] to swim, you have to swim to school uphill in both directions, poor poor Jules.
[15:56.880 -> 15:57.440] Wearing clogs.
[15:58.000 -> 16:02.880] Wearing clogs, that's right, yeah, and dragging your own windmill and basket of daffodils. So,
[16:02.880 -> 16:06.360] you're about the same age as me, aren't you? Early 40s, early 40s.
[16:06.360 -> 16:08.060] Yeah, Kyle's getting on a bit.
[16:08.060 -> 16:12.360] Kyle, you were my young expert race car driver,
[16:12.360 -> 16:13.880] engineer, and now look at you.
[16:13.880 -> 16:17.880] Look, a shallow shell of a man approaching his 40s.
[16:17.880 -> 16:19.440] I've had a tough paper round, man.
[16:19.440 -> 16:20.280] It's not my fault.
[16:20.280 -> 16:21.440] Yeah, well, this is it.
[16:21.440 -> 16:23.900] And talking of tough paper rounds, looking at Matt.
[16:23.900 -> 16:25.320] Matt is only 27. Believe it or not. Yeah, but it's windy and talking of tough paper rounds looking at Matt, Matt is only 27
[16:25.880 -> 16:30.980] Believe it or not. Yeah, but it's windy. It's windy in Brooklyn. So we're all old sweats
[16:30.980 -> 16:34.440] So when you talk about old school stuff like we were all raised
[16:34.760 -> 16:37.760] in a time where where there wasn't health and safety and
[16:37.860 -> 16:42.000] When they started bringing health and safety in it was our health and safety's gone mad
[16:42.060 -> 16:50.960] So I'm gonna be talking about you know, the conditions the drivers in Qatar faced. And I'll be honest, I was very harsh privately speaking to people when
[16:50.960 -> 17:00.720] Logan Sargent was talking about retiring and then retired, because that is kind of the old school,
[17:00.720 -> 17:08.720] if you want to use old school as an excuse to be a bit of a curmudgeon, that was my instinct of like, well, that's your job. You know, suck it up, buttercup,
[17:08.720 -> 17:12.880] you know, we've all had hard jobs. You chose this one, just get on with it. But it does
[17:12.880 -> 17:20.040] turn out that the conditions were a little bit more severe than was initially seen. And
[17:20.040 -> 17:23.640] by the time we got to the race review, you know, we were acknowledging that not only
[17:23.640 -> 17:30.160] was it similar to Singapore in humidity and temperature, but also they were basically doing 57 qualifying
[17:30.160 -> 17:33.200] laps, something that F1 has been unaccustomed to.
[17:33.200 -> 17:38.800] But you know, Carl, we are of that generation where people argued against seatbelts and
[17:38.800 -> 17:42.560] thought that that was a nanny state thing to do.
[17:42.560 -> 17:46.360] But I guess the least popular opinion on Twitter has been
[17:46.360 -> 17:51.000] the absolutely excellent Martin Brundle basically coming out and saying, you know, it's the
[17:51.000 -> 17:57.040] job, just get on with it. He all but tweeted that they should man up and the internet was
[17:57.040 -> 17:58.040] not happy.
[17:58.040 -> 18:04.800] No, and you know, he has half a point and I sit between halfway between his point and
[18:04.800 -> 18:06.200] the quite ridiculous
[18:06.200 -> 18:10.320] faux Twitter outrage that you get people sitting in their bedroom saying it's the most horrific
[18:10.320 -> 18:13.120] thing ever and massively overreacting.
[18:13.120 -> 18:15.120] Yes, it was extreme.
[18:15.120 -> 18:17.840] Yes, but yes, it is the pinnacle of sport.
[18:17.840 -> 18:23.600] It comes into the pinnacle and they are elite athletes and they are meant to be pushed.
[18:23.600 -> 18:26.440] But I do very much sympathize with them and
[18:26.440 -> 18:32.120] I do believe this was a perfect storm of as you said it was 57 absolute qualifying laps
[18:32.120 -> 18:40.740] on a track which has got so much g-force and no rest for the drivers whatsoever and personally
[18:40.740 -> 18:46.800] I've been in a similar situation I've almost fainted in a race and had to come in and got pulled out of the car when I come in and
[18:46.800 -> 18:47.840] pretty much passed out.
[18:47.840 -> 18:50.240] I've reached that point of exhaustion and it is horrible.
[18:50.240 -> 18:54.320] So I was really, really feeling for Sergeant when he's going on the radio saying, I don't
[18:54.320 -> 18:55.440] think I can do this anymore.
[18:55.440 -> 19:00.800] And I'm just like, oh yeah, I kind of, I kind of semi understand where, where he is, but it's
[19:00.800 -> 19:01.760] absolutely awful.
[19:01.760 -> 19:04.080] But you know, there is, there is a limit.
[19:04.080 -> 19:06.080] We shouldn't have this huge knee-jerk reaction
[19:06.080 -> 19:08.680] of they should never go in hot conditions at all.
[19:08.680 -> 19:12.440] But I genuinely think if it wasn't an 18-lap limited stint
[19:12.440 -> 19:15.120] on the tyres, that I don't think this would have happened.
[19:15.120 -> 19:16.200] I think it was a normal race
[19:16.200 -> 19:18.340] that they would have been a bit more okay.
[19:18.340 -> 19:21.840] So I actually think that there might've been, you know,
[19:21.840 -> 19:25.200] an opposite effect where, because of that culture of,
[19:25.200 -> 19:31.600] well, you just got a man up, you just got to suck it up, you just got to... I think a lot of the drivers pushed it way further than was safe.
[19:31.840 -> 19:38.480] So I've been in not a driving situation, but I have been in a very thick nuclear,
[19:39.160 -> 19:43.560] biological and chemical attack suit and respirator in boiling hot conditions,
[19:43.600 -> 19:45.120] where there was a lot of pressure
[19:45.120 -> 19:49.920] to not quit and not give up. And everyone was there not wanting to be the one to go,
[19:49.920 -> 19:55.560] I need to be the one to call this and get out of here. And then eventually we had just
[19:55.560 -> 20:00.160] the guy just fully, you know, just collapse and we went, oh man, yeah, I should have called
[20:00.160 -> 20:05.040] this earlier. We had to get like helicopter evac. They came and took the guy and I said,
[20:05.040 -> 20:09.580] right, we'll get on as well. And the reaction we got was, you've only lost one. So yeah,
[20:09.580 -> 20:13.820] so I think there can be the opposite effect, Matt, where I think a lot of those drivers
[20:13.820 -> 20:17.460] were talking about passing out. So Stroll said he was all but passing out in the corner.
[20:17.460 -> 20:27.080] So he probably should have felt more confident to pull out earlier, but I think there would have been enormous pressure on
[20:27.080 -> 20:29.760] these young athletes to not appear weak.
[20:29.760 -> 20:37.620] Well, yeah, and I think to get to the point here, the driver's side of it is there is
[20:37.620 -> 20:40.720] enormous pressure to finish the race.
[20:40.720 -> 20:46.080] In fact, there was a lovely quote from Esteban Ocon, which I swear I didn't bring because
[20:46.080 -> 20:51.920] it was him, but he literally said, honestly, giving up is not an option. I would never do
[20:51.920 -> 20:59.040] that. You would have to kill me to make me abandon it. And this is why the FIA has adopted this sort
[20:59.040 -> 21:03.120] of, we have to protect the drivers, is because when it comes to making these sorts of rational
[21:03.120 -> 21:05.440] decisions, they're toddlers.
[21:05.440 -> 21:10.560] And this would obviously be, you could look at examples like Nicky Lauda abandoning after
[21:10.560 -> 21:16.280] his accident in the rain and say, well, no, occasionally drivers do make grownup decisions.
[21:16.280 -> 21:19.960] I'm not saying it's always the case, but it's frequently the case.
[21:19.960 -> 21:24.020] Look, if you're driving and you feel dizzy and you think you're passing out and your
[21:24.020 -> 21:34.000] response to that is, oh, I'm going to keep on driving and you're just on a public motorway. Well, guess what? That's really unacceptable. And it should be equally unacceptable in Formula One.
[21:34.000 -> 21:51.760] Having said that, I'm going to play the devil's advocate here and say I agree with almost everything Martin Brundle said. Okay, so I'm just going to defend, yeah, I was going to defend him just a little bit because, A, because the reason that a lot of those drivers didn't quit is because of idiots like me
[21:51.760 -> 21:56.320] and the view I had during the race where I was like, just get on with it, you chose to do that
[21:56.320 -> 22:03.200] job. The Martin Brundle comment is, it's races like Qatar and very rainy days which make F1
[22:03.200 -> 22:06.000] drivers look like the heroes and athletes they are.
[22:06.000 -> 22:10.400] Absolutely don't buy into the weak view that we shouldn't put them through this kind of challenge.
[22:10.400 -> 22:16.000] Check out Senna in Brazil, Stewart at rainy, no buggering, louder post-crash.
[22:16.560 -> 22:22.080] So I think if he hadn't have put weak view, if he'd have just said absolutely don't buy into
[22:22.080 -> 22:26.400] that we shouldn't put them through this kind of challenge, I think he would have probably got away with that.
[22:26.400 -> 22:28.640] But look at his generation of drivers,
[22:28.640 -> 22:32.560] where they were facing a far higher mortality rate.
[22:32.560 -> 22:34.840] They were in, you know, looking at drivers now,
[22:34.840 -> 22:36.500] and you look at them with a power steering,
[22:36.500 -> 22:38.880] those 80s, 90s drivers must be looking at
[22:38.880 -> 22:40.840] the things they were having to wrestle.
[22:40.840 -> 22:43.120] No, you know, no, what'd you call it?
[22:43.120 -> 22:46.160] No assist, no steering assist, very little safety,
[22:46.160 -> 22:49.680] and they must look at it and go, well, they're a little bit pampered compared to what we did.
[22:50.480 -> 22:55.600] Yes, they are. But also, these current drivers are driving cars that have got way more downforce,
[22:55.600 -> 23:01.040] and they're pulling way more lateral G. The cars are also a lot heavier and a bit more cumbersome
[23:01.040 -> 23:06.960] to throw around. And, yeah, so he had a point, but I don't think...
[23:06.960 -> 23:10.480] And also the drivers now are a lot more fit than they used to be back in the late 80s,
[23:10.480 -> 23:15.360] early 90s. I mean, Gihar Berger said he never used to train at all, which I found amazing.
[23:15.360 -> 23:19.200] And they were always spent when they got out of the cars. It was Schumacher that pushed the sport
[23:19.200 -> 23:23.920] on with the fitness. So I think it's an unfair comparison really between them. Now what happened
[23:23.920 -> 23:29.200] in Qatar, yes, it probably was a bit too extreme extreme when you saw all of the drivers that knackered
[23:29.920 -> 23:34.800] after the race and you know, they, they, how much they train and how fit they actually are,
[23:34.800 -> 23:37.360] then that was the actual limit.
[23:37.360 -> 23:42.880] And maybe we do need to look at what time of year we race in really hot environments and
[23:42.880 -> 23:49.840] the nature of the circuit and what we can do with cooling the drivers. I know in NASCAR they have cooling coming into their
[23:49.840 -> 23:53.900] helmets at the back and stuff, so maybe we need to look into more cooling in the cars,
[23:53.900 -> 23:58.240] but yes it was a bit too extreme. I don't want an e-jerk reaction, they should be pushed,
[23:58.240 -> 24:01.980] it should be extremely physical and the best should rise to the top, but that was maybe
[24:01.980 -> 24:09.280] a little bit over the line. Yeah, and I'd like to add to what Kyle just said is that the current day's cockpits,
[24:09.280 -> 24:14.080] they are so much different than the ones that Brundle raced in. In the days of Brundle,
[24:14.080 -> 24:21.040] your shoulders were above your cockpit, so you get a lot of ventilation just from the air. And
[24:22.000 -> 24:25.620] nowadays, these cockpits, the drivers are built in well.
[24:25.620 -> 24:27.460] We all know what it's like.
[24:27.460 -> 24:32.460] So I think I want to go with Kyle's perfect storm,
[24:32.660 -> 24:33.500] but on the other hand,
[24:33.500 -> 24:37.280] I also felt like wasn't this to be foreseen?
[24:37.280 -> 24:40.760] And of course you can always predict weather, et cetera.
[24:40.760 -> 24:43.220] And on Saturday evening, it was okay.
[24:43.220 -> 24:44.980] But on the other hand, I had a look,
[24:44.980 -> 24:46.960] and when the football
[24:46.960 -> 24:54.880] World Cup or soccer, if you want, was going to be hosted in Qatar, it was last winter. But also
[24:54.880 -> 25:05.560] already in 2015, they decided to schedule that World Cup in end of November, beginning in the whole of December because of the heat.
[25:06.120 -> 25:13.440] And, um, you'd think that maybe FOM and FIA could have done something
[25:14.000 -> 25:15.440] kind of similar thinking.
[25:16.040 -> 25:21.400] And I put on maybe a little bit of a tinfoil hat, but then, you know, if you
[25:21.400 -> 25:22.000] look... Oh, here, let's hear it.
[25:22.000 -> 25:22.480] Let's hear it.
[25:23.320 -> 25:23.640] If you...
[25:24.000 -> 25:24.840] Okay, let's hear it.
[25:26.480 -> 25:31.920] No, what's your tinfoil hat? Come on. All right. Qatar, you know, if you look... Oh, here, let's hear it. Let's hear it. If you... Okay, let's hear. No, what's your Tiddle for hat? Come on. All right. Qatar, you know, originally wasn't a Formula One track.
[25:32.880 -> 25:34.720] They weren't hosting Formula One races,
[25:34.720 -> 25:38.880] and they only entered the scene because of COVID in 2021.
[25:38.880 -> 25:43.520] They were some kind of last resort, like, oh, apparently there's no COVID in Qatar
[25:43.520 -> 25:44.880] and we can race there, you know.
[25:45.440 -> 25:51.920] So they weren't supposed to return, but then all of a sudden, Qatar thought, well, we'd want to,
[25:51.920 -> 26:00.320] and they are paying the highest fee of fees paid by circuits to be on the calendar. And all of a
[26:00.320 -> 26:06.760] sudden, they're there from this year on for 10 years. They need to be there. They need to have a spot on the calendar.
[26:06.760 -> 26:10.880] So I wonder, did FIA, did FOM really not pay attention to
[26:11.760 -> 26:14.200] what happened in the football world when all of a sudden
[26:14.200 -> 26:16.360] they had a World Cup in winter instead of summer?
[26:16.840 -> 26:21.160] Did they not think by themselves, like, hmm, maybe, but if you already
[26:21.160 -> 26:25.600] have a stuffed calendar in December and Qatar needs to be there because
[26:25.600 -> 26:34.080] of all that money, just squeeze them in early October, see what happens. And then by doing that,
[26:34.800 -> 26:42.480] maybe let's create a problem which we want to solve and have a solution for already. Like,
[26:42.480 -> 26:45.760] oh, look, we can't race in Qatar in October. We need
[26:45.760 -> 26:51.440] to stretch our calendar. We need to race until December because else it's too hot. Understand?
[26:52.880 -> 26:59.760] Honestly, Jules, I think that in 10 years time, we will see the F1 season will run from spring
[27:00.320 -> 27:11.800] and it will roll through a small winter break and then end in February. But that's exactly what they need to do. Liberty understands. We have a generation of new fans.
[27:11.800 -> 27:17.200] They aren't going to sit and wait if we have a last race mid-October and the start of the
[27:17.200 -> 27:22.460] next season on the third week of March like used to be. They know these people don't sit
[27:22.460 -> 27:30.880] around for five months doing nothing. They need to keep the narrative going. So I think you're right. We're moving towards that kind of planning
[27:30.880 -> 27:36.980] to keep these younger generations engaged, to keep a narrative going for them because
[27:36.980 -> 27:38.940] else it's not going to work.
[27:38.940 -> 27:44.960] It will basically be a year-round sport with a break for Ramadan, summer and Christmas.
[27:44.960 -> 27:45.280] And I think that will be the future ongoing of sport, Matt. for Ramadan, summer and Christmas and I think
[27:45.280 -> 27:49.400] that will be the future ongoing of sport Matt. But look I think I agree with Kyle
[27:49.400 -> 27:55.080] here, without those intense stints they'd have got away with the heat. So
[27:55.080 -> 27:59.800] unless they're planning to, I hope they're not, unless they're planning to do more
[27:59.800 -> 28:07.160] forced pit stops to make them do those kind of stints, this is really a non-issue because it should never happen again.
[28:07.160 -> 28:14.360] Well, it'll only never happen again if we don't have the combination of heat and humidity
[28:14.360 -> 28:15.720] that we saw in Qatar.
[28:15.720 -> 28:21.600] And now, I have done a pretty extensive investigation into this, and aside from wanting to defend
[28:21.600 -> 28:32.720] Brundle as basically being right, the only thing he was wrong about was this specific challenge here. In the sense that what is generally described as the
[28:32.720 -> 28:40.080] wet bulb temperature, that's the temperature at which water stops evaporating, crossed over to
[28:40.080 -> 28:45.880] the actual environmental conditions that we saw at Qatar.
[28:45.880 -> 28:50.960] And I asked this question, well, why didn't we hear this complaint in the sprint race?
[28:50.960 -> 28:51.960] It's shorter.
[28:51.960 -> 28:57.720] True, but it's also equally as fast and violent because it's only one stent, no pit stops.
[28:57.720 -> 29:00.000] You don't really have to save tires there.
[29:00.000 -> 29:08.640] And the answer is simple, the humidity was 61% on Saturday, 73% on Sunday with the air
[29:08.640 -> 29:11.400] temperature of a 31C.
[29:11.400 -> 29:15.160] And we get quickly to the point of how hot is it in the cockpit?
[29:15.160 -> 29:19.200] Well it turns out it's hot enough that water stops evaporating.
[29:19.200 -> 29:26.720] And when water stops evaporating, your body cannot cool itself, and you run towards heat exhaustion, which very easily
[29:26.720 -> 29:31.440] matches the symptoms that we heard these drivers reporting. In fact, I think two-thirds of them
[29:31.440 -> 29:37.520] wound up going to the medical center before all was said and done. So when Kyle talks about a
[29:37.520 -> 29:42.640] perfect storm, it's not just a perfect storm of, oh, they had to work harder than usual,
[29:42.640 -> 29:45.200] and in fact, Max Verstappen himself thought it was going
[29:45.200 -> 29:51.920] to be an issue regardless. But we're also talking about the fact that they were in a situation,
[29:51.920 -> 29:58.160] which is an easily measurable situation, where the wet bulb temperature meant their sweat wasn't
[29:58.160 -> 30:03.120] going to evaporate. Never mind sitting in a cockpit where you have massive heat soak from
[30:03.120 -> 30:05.200] the electrics underneath and from the internal
[30:05.200 -> 30:11.200] combustion engine. You have driver cooling ducts that are barely effective because it's a high
[30:11.200 -> 30:15.680] speed track and there's a huge high pressure wake in front of the front wing which makes that
[30:15.680 -> 30:21.280] duct less efficient. That you're oftentimes in yaw which makes it even less efficient.
[30:21.280 -> 30:26.680] And the simple matter of the fact is they're not even required to have driver cooling ducts.
[30:26.680 -> 30:28.600] And at the same time, you have these cockpits
[30:28.600 -> 30:31.040] meant to prevent buffeting at high speeds.
[30:31.040 -> 30:33.000] So people's helmets don't choke them to death
[30:33.000 -> 30:34.320] as used to happen.
[30:34.320 -> 30:35.920] So that means the faster you go,
[30:35.920 -> 30:37.560] the less air you get in the cockpit.
[30:37.560 -> 30:39.360] And we heard multiple driver complaints
[30:39.360 -> 30:41.360] about no air in the cockpit.
[30:41.360 -> 30:42.640] So they have no cooling air,
[30:42.640 -> 30:49.520] no convection cooling is possible. The ambient temp and humidity means they can't evaporate sweat, and they're working the hardest
[30:49.520 -> 30:54.640] they've ever had to work. Yeah, this is a situation you should not ever be racing in,
[30:54.640 -> 31:00.960] and if there's a real takeaway from it, it's that driver cooling has always been about the
[31:00.960 -> 31:06.480] last thought any team has, and if the FIA really wants to change something,
[31:06.480 -> 31:07.480] that's where they should start.
[31:07.480 -> 31:12.000] Well, they could just man up, Kyle.
[31:12.000 -> 31:16.400] I haven't got a custom remote GP comment in for a while, but this same situation happened
[31:16.400 -> 31:20.800] a few weeks ago at the Indian Grand Prix, which is at the old Budd circuit.
[31:20.800 -> 31:24.960] And the riders all on the Friday went to the governing body and were like, this is too
[31:24.960 -> 31:28.960] hot. This is too extreme and too physical. We don't think we're going to last the race like we can.
[31:28.960 -> 31:33.680] And they actually shortened the race as a result of all of the riders raising concerns, saying it's
[31:33.680 -> 31:39.040] too hot. And as a result of that, Aprilia have now started working on a cooling duct for the riders.
[31:39.040 -> 31:43.040] When they're tucked down into the bubble, it was 50C into the bubble. So they've now started making
[31:43.040 -> 31:45.160] a cooling duct to cool the riders down a little bit.
[31:45.160 -> 31:45.520] Where was this?
[31:45.520 -> 31:46.560] In case it happens in the future.
[31:46.600 -> 31:49.740] It was at India, in the, um, at the Budd circuit, the
[31:49.740 -> 31:50.640] Formula One used to go to.
[31:51.240 -> 31:52.420] And it was like super hot.
[31:52.420 -> 31:53.800] So they actually reduced the race length.
[31:53.800 -> 31:56.600] Now Button came out, I think it was today saying that the
[31:56.600 -> 31:57.720] drivers need to speak up.
[31:57.720 -> 32:00.620] If they start having concerns at Grand Prix like this again in the future,
[32:00.620 -> 32:05.280] they probably need to say, look, you need to reduce the race distance to stop us
[32:05.280 -> 32:09.440] getting to this critical point. But I don't remember hearing the drivers saying that this
[32:09.440 -> 32:14.640] is going to be seriously critical. So Matt's point was very good. It just it, they had this bizarre
[32:14.640 -> 32:17.360] condition where they got the wet bulb temperature and they couldn't actually
[32:17.920 -> 32:21.920] compete. But we do need to do something about driver cooling. The maybe I would be wouldn't
[32:21.920 -> 32:25.040] be surprised if there was a rule mandating a minimum requirement
[32:25.040 -> 32:29.760] of driver cooling in the cockpit coming in the next couple of years. And I think that's what's
[32:29.760 -> 32:36.720] called for. In fact, Martin's son, Alex, made the exact opposite complaint, and it was exactly about
[32:36.720 -> 32:44.320] this issue, driver cooling. And I don't think we can blame the FIA here for not knowing ahead of
[32:44.320 -> 32:46.440] time this was going to be an issue.
[32:46.440 -> 32:47.440] Nobody knew it was.
[32:47.440 -> 32:49.360] And this does happen in sport.
[32:49.360 -> 32:53.120] And this is where I really kind of want to get back to agreeing with Brundle.
[32:53.120 -> 32:54.120] Dealing with challenges like that.
[32:54.120 -> 32:55.120] Which one?
[32:55.120 -> 32:56.120] Which one?
[32:56.120 -> 32:57.120] You have to pick a side.
[32:57.120 -> 32:58.120] The Martin comment.
[32:58.120 -> 32:59.120] No, no, no, yeah.
[32:59.120 -> 33:03.680] When they encounter situations like that, dealing with them is what makes them heroes,
[33:03.680 -> 33:05.680] whether they retire like Logan Sargent
[33:05.680 -> 33:11.560] did, or whether they carry on like certain other drivers did.
[33:11.560 -> 33:15.480] It's not a test you want to put them through, but sometimes it happens.
[33:15.480 -> 33:19.800] And that's why we admire them so much, because they go places we can't.
[33:19.800 -> 33:20.800] Sort of.
[33:20.800 -> 33:22.720] I mean, is the...
[33:22.720 -> 33:26.480] Here's a fundamental question, is part of the driver skill being able to
[33:26.480 -> 33:32.680] withstand very, very ridiculously physical things, or is the driver skill being able
[33:32.680 -> 33:38.200] to point your race car in the right way to go around a racetrack quickly? So you can
[33:38.200 -> 33:43.200] fundamentally decide what kind of challenge you want, because you could say, okay, the
[33:43.200 -> 33:46.400] steering wheels, which currently I think somebody had said
[33:46.400 -> 33:52.960] they're about 15 to 20 newton meters, they have force, they have to turn the wheel, and you could
[33:52.960 -> 33:59.040] say, all right, well, it's 50. Have it as 50 and only people with massive shoulders, huge great
[33:59.040 -> 34:04.880] lats and biceps can steer the steering wheel. So you could make, there's no reason why you
[34:04.880 -> 34:05.600] couldn't make that the
[34:05.600 -> 34:12.160] physical challenge of F1. So it's no different to going, now a driver has to withstand 57 laps of
[34:12.160 -> 34:17.880] constant high G in 60 degree temperatures in high humidity above the wet bulb temperature,
[34:17.880 -> 34:23.240] or whatever it was Matt said. You know, that's just as ridiculous as saying, okay, actually,
[34:23.240 -> 34:28.480] before they get into the car, they've got to do a bunch of pull-ups. So you can just make it less physical.
[34:28.480 -> 34:34.160] Is the physical challenge, Jules, something that people care about? I've never really cared
[34:34.160 -> 34:40.320] which driver is the fittest driver. It's only because Schumacher knocked cigarettes out of
[34:40.320 -> 34:51.200] everyone's hands that they started caring about fitness, But it's never been a thing. If you had to end up being an Olympic level athlete to be any kind of F1 driver, that would cut the pool
[34:51.200 -> 34:58.800] down. I'd be less interested in it. The thing with this is it would just add another element
[34:58.800 -> 35:07.240] that is invisible to us TV viewers. And there's already so much going on underneath the hoods
[35:07.240 -> 35:09.200] of these cars that we can't see.
[35:10.360 -> 35:15.360] So it shouldn't be a physical sport primarily.
[35:17.520 -> 35:19.560] It should be about driving skills.
[35:19.560 -> 35:21.580] It should be about focus.
[35:21.580 -> 35:24.840] It should be about seeing gaps.
[35:24.840 -> 35:27.680] It should be about eye-hand coordination,
[35:27.680 -> 35:33.360] well, all of that. It shouldn't be about, oh, how many miles have you run or have you
[35:33.360 -> 35:38.960] slept in a heat chamber, et cetera. Yeah, I agree. And by the way, that pause,
[35:38.960 -> 35:43.360] as you quickly were translating to yourself, it was really interesting hearing you on the
[35:43.360 -> 35:45.760] Dutch podcast. Is it called
[35:45.760 -> 35:46.760] the Pitlane Reporter?
[35:46.760 -> 35:47.760] Luke Yardley Race Reporter.
[35:47.760 -> 35:50.280] Jason Vale Race Reporter, I beg your pardon, with Lucas
[35:50.280 -> 35:57.720] Deacon. And to hear you in your native Dutch, unleashed, was magnificent. So we do appreciate
[35:57.720 -> 36:02.480] you translating everything to English for us. So if you are Dutch and you want to go
[36:02.480 -> 36:09.480] and check them out, they're a very good Dutch podcast. In fact, we've had Lucas on here in the past. All right, let's move away
[36:09.480 -> 36:22.360] and let's move on to the rest of the Big Dirty News. I realised there wasn't a the in there.
[36:22.360 -> 36:27.760] All right, where do we go first? Okay, so we have got basically, I think there is a big
[36:27.760 -> 36:33.320] conflict between the FIA and FOM and they seem to be butting heads on everything. But
[36:33.320 -> 36:39.120] first, let's get this little rumour mill thing out of the way. Because, right, there was
[36:39.120 -> 36:42.600] this guy and he was like on Reddit and he's like, guys, I totally don't know how to break
[36:42.600 -> 36:46.960] this to you, but I was at a race car track and I was driving my race car really, really fast. And then
[36:46.960 -> 36:50.840] they told me, oy, no professionals. So I had to come into the pit lane and slow down. And
[36:50.840 -> 36:53.680] so while I was in the pit lane, I was talking to this guy and he's like the big boss of
[36:53.680 -> 36:59.000] some petrol company and he's Mexican and everything. And he knew Sergio Perez's mum's dog. And
[36:59.000 -> 37:03.480] that dog barked in what could only be interpreted as confirmation that Sergio Perez is going
[37:03.480 -> 37:08.960] to retire and announce it at the Mexican Grand Prix, which means Jules that it's absolutely true.
[37:08.960 -> 37:13.400] Um, pardon me by surprise there Spenos.
[37:13.400 -> 37:15.920] Okay, Matt, absolutely true.
[37:15.920 -> 37:21.320] Yeah, of course, because everything on Reddit and the internet generally speaking is true,
[37:21.320 -> 37:27.600] that's why we don't have to worry about what we say on Twitter anymore. Al-Khalili Is this about Perez retiring?
[37:27.600 -> 37:29.400] RL Yes, was it too fast?
[37:29.400 -> 37:30.400] Did no one catch what I was saying?
[37:30.400 -> 37:33.520] Al-Khalili I was in the live chat, sorry.
[37:33.520 -> 37:36.320] I actually, it makes sense.
[37:36.320 -> 37:39.480] I don't think it's true, but I think it makes perfect sense, actually.
[37:39.480 -> 37:44.480] You know, if he doesn't get second in the championship, and potentially loses his drive
[37:44.480 -> 37:46.440] with Red Bull, Marco's been taking pot shots at him in the championship, potentially loses his drive with Red Bull. Marco has been
[37:46.440 -> 37:50.900] taking pot shots at him in the press constantly. Why would you want to be in that situation
[37:50.900 -> 37:55.760] under pressure? He must realise himself now that he's struggling, he's never going to
[37:55.760 -> 38:00.420] match for Snapperton, he's an extremely good driver. Would he want to go back to a less
[38:00.420 -> 38:04.800] competitive team? Wouldn't it be nice to end his career on a sort of a relative high of
[38:04.800 -> 38:09.200] being near the front and in second in the championship? So it kind of makes sense.
[38:09.200 -> 38:15.040] Do I want to see him go? No, I don't. But it would make sense to do a Rosberg maybe.
[38:15.840 -> 38:18.560] Yeah, well, that was very different circumstances. Rosberg left in,
[38:19.280 -> 38:23.920] you know, he nicked one and ran, didn't he? But that's a very different circumstance to...
[38:23.920 -> 38:28.400] And if Perez had nicked a championship, he should absolutely have retired.
[38:28.400 -> 38:31.840] But the problem that people are facing, Jules, I think with Perez is
[38:32.400 -> 38:34.160] no one can imagine it getting any better.
[38:34.800 -> 38:35.520] Exactly.
[38:35.520 -> 38:40.160] And I can imagine he feels the same after this season.
[38:40.880 -> 38:44.000] We do remember him from the first couple of races this season.
[38:44.000 -> 38:45.360] And during winter winter when he
[38:45.360 -> 38:51.920] said he was going to launch a title bid, he felt like he could do it, but it didn't really
[38:51.920 -> 38:54.600] materialize ever since Miami, I think.
[38:54.600 -> 38:55.600] It was.
[38:55.600 -> 38:56.600] Miami was the death blow, wasn't it?
[38:56.600 -> 39:01.760] But he begged apparently to go back to the pre-Barcelona spec car that he was getting
[39:01.760 -> 39:05.520] on with and they said no, because. And that makes sense to not have two
[39:05.520 -> 39:10.480] different specs of car running because just logistically, you know, what spares do you bring,
[39:10.480 -> 39:15.600] you'd have to double up. But he was clearly comfortable before then, before Miami, and then
[39:15.600 -> 39:23.680] Miami was... it was a monumental drubbing. But then the question is, did he really feel
[39:23.680 -> 39:27.000] that car was better than the version he's driving now?
[39:27.000 -> 39:35.000] Or is this a mental thing thinking like, oh, back then with the car, which it was like back then,
[39:35.000 -> 39:40.000] I could still fight Max and I was faster than him, or I could match him.
[39:40.000 -> 39:46.160] I don't know. I think it could be more something in his head than something that could actually materialize
[39:46.160 -> 39:50.720] because it would also mean that RVR would be, you know, managing two cars.
[39:50.720 -> 39:54.960] One that's up to date, that's upgraded with all the things they've developed this season
[39:54.960 -> 40:00.160] and one that would be almost like the one they started in the first race of the season.
[40:00.160 -> 40:07.560] I think you'd have to look at Perez from this perspective that he was close to matching
[40:07.560 -> 40:11.540] Max in the first couple of races for the last two seasons.
[40:11.540 -> 40:17.520] And it just, you know, it slipped out of his hands and next season it'll be 34 years old.
[40:17.520 -> 40:19.740] He's ended this season.
[40:19.740 -> 40:28.560] He's already 200 points behind Max and it looks like it's going to be near 250. Last season he was 150
[40:28.560 -> 40:35.840] points behind, the season before that 200 points also. So in fact, he's never been that close and
[40:36.400 -> 40:46.640] can he mentally, you know, get into this place where he can load himself up during winter and again feel genuinely like...
[40:46.640 -> 40:48.640] No! I'm not going to match him!
[40:48.640 -> 40:55.640] Well, can he get to the point where he feels like he might be able to? Yeah, maybe. I don't think he can get to the place where he would get to.
[40:55.640 -> 40:58.640] But, get to that point where he can actually do it.
[40:58.640 -> 41:10.480] But just then, I was going to delete basically the whole panel failing to get going on this topic. Hello Live Chat. It turns out that our patron Live Chat was distracting all three of them
[41:10.480 -> 41:14.720] while I was delivering my intro to this segment and that's why they were all surprised. So
[41:15.360 -> 41:20.160] extra homework for all of you. Thank you for joining us though and they are our lovely patrons
[41:20.160 -> 41:28.400] without whom we would have to prioritise other things. So if you want to join them in the live chat in our patron Slack group and get an ad-free
[41:28.400 -> 41:35.260] feed on your RSS on your podcast app, then check out patreon.com forward slash missed
[41:35.260 -> 41:36.260] apex.
[41:36.260 -> 41:39.020] And we'd really appreciate if you consider supporting missed apex.
[41:39.020 -> 41:40.500] It's the 15th.
[41:40.500 -> 41:45.280] So if you sign up now, you won't get the first $5 or whatever billed until the end
[41:45.280 -> 41:46.280] of the month.
[41:46.280 -> 41:52.760] So, you can listen to our patron-only episodes pre-COTA and pre-Mexico, and then hopefully
[41:52.760 -> 41:54.720] forget completely to cancel it.
[41:54.720 -> 41:55.720] But please go and check it out.
[41:55.720 -> 41:58.120] There's a link in your show notes below.
[41:58.120 -> 41:59.120] Kyle.
[41:59.120 -> 42:00.120] Yeah.
[42:00.120 -> 42:06.920] So, if I was Perez, if I was Sergio, and was in there, I would, I would want to, I would
[42:06.920 -> 42:09.400] want to get myself out of that situation.
[42:09.400 -> 42:13.620] I mean, we always say F1 drivers go in there and they all thoroughly believe that they
[42:13.620 -> 42:16.960] are the best ever, the best that can be, but that can't be true.
[42:16.960 -> 42:17.960] They're kidding themselves.
[42:17.960 -> 42:20.040] He must surely know now he sees Max's data.
[42:20.040 -> 42:22.780] He knows what Max can do with the car.
[42:22.780 -> 42:25.060] And as Jules said, he goes, he starts strongly.
[42:25.060 -> 42:28.280] He started strongly the last couple of years and then it's gone away as Red Bull
[42:28.280 -> 42:30.460] have developed the car to be faster.
[42:30.500 -> 42:32.160] Now, is that developing around Max?
[42:32.500 -> 42:35.820] You can argue either way they've developed to get the peak performance
[42:35.900 -> 42:39.180] and Max can deal with it and get that out of it and Perez can't.
[42:39.480 -> 42:42.280] So he was really strong at the start of the season when the car was a bit more
[42:42.280 -> 42:48.160] understeery, less on the nose, less peak performance. Now they've gone for the peak performance. Max can extract that.
[42:48.160 -> 42:53.040] Perez can't and he's drifted away. And now as we've seen in the last few races,
[42:53.040 -> 42:58.160] almost a desperation to his driving, the dive bombing, the lunges, and then the non accountability,
[42:58.160 -> 43:02.400] I think, is not admitting mistakes. He's under a load of pressure. I mean, do you really think
[43:02.400 -> 43:08.560] after a race when he's getting slated in the press, he's having his own bosses slating him in the press, he's under loads and
[43:08.560 -> 43:14.560] loads of pressure, do you really think he goes home and goes to bed a happy man with a clear mind?
[43:14.560 -> 43:19.440] I don't think so. Yes, he's earning millions of pounds driving a Formula 1 car, wonderful, but
[43:19.440 -> 43:25.280] he's gone in there trying to be a racing driver and have this facade of, yes, I can match and I can do it.
[43:29.520 -> 43:32.000] And I think he knows deep down himself that he probably can't in that seat. So I would personally want to get myself out of that situation.
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[45:01.360 -> 45:08.280] I'm going to just try one last defense of Sergio Perez, right? It's too big a gap.
[45:08.280 -> 45:14.160] But the gap is too big. The way it's switched from people genuinely saying, could he sustain
[45:14.160 -> 45:19.420] this and hold a challenge, to that performance gap at Miami, to being on average over half
[45:19.420 -> 45:27.040] a second a lap on race pace behind Max Verstappen. It's too big a gap. That is not the gap between
[45:27.040 -> 45:31.920] Verstappen and Perez if you plonk them both in a McLaren. And it's sus. There's got to
[45:31.920 -> 45:36.640] be something. He didn't just go, ah, I got tired. Ah, do you know what? I'm a bit fed
[45:36.640 -> 45:40.120] up with this. Oh, I'm not quite in the... He didn't forget how to drive a Grand Prix
[45:40.120 -> 45:46.640] car. This guy's been on the podium a gajillion times. He's a multiple winner over multiple
[45:46.640 -> 45:53.600] seasons in multiple different teams. His performances might be peaky, but they're not a fluke.
[45:53.600 -> 45:59.120] And that's just my last point on this, Matt, that I will wait for the memoir to come out
[45:59.120 -> 46:02.600] because the gap is too big. It's too big.
[46:02.600 -> 46:07.200] Yeah, I would normally agree with you because we always agree on everything
[46:07.200 -> 46:16.160] always. But in this instance, I got to say what's going on reminds me of well, as having seen it as
[46:16.160 -> 46:21.360] a trumpet player, like having seen golfers like do you have the yips? No. And then they put the
[46:21.360 -> 46:25.200] ball 35 yards off the green and take a big divot out of it. Okay. Yeah,
[46:25.200 -> 46:32.560] you don't have the yips. It to me, he's lost. You don't ask for a return to an older chassis
[46:32.560 -> 46:37.280] unless you're lost. This reminds me of, do you remember that time that Williams put like all
[46:37.280 -> 46:41.600] the aerodynamic equipment on their car to test it? And they literally like brought last year's car
[46:41.600 -> 46:45.200] because they just had no idea they were completely lost
[46:45.760 -> 46:52.560] Perez right now is a driver that is lost and he needs to get back to something that he can
[46:52.560 -> 46:59.360] recognize this is the problem he's having and the issue for him as you point out is not just
[47:00.080 -> 47:09.000] that he has a clear target which is he has finish second, or he's out to be replaced by Ricardo. At least that's the reporting we've seen.
[47:09.000 -> 47:10.500] Yeah, go on.
[47:10.500 -> 47:19.000] Yeah, that's some new reporting. But that there's also an internal war going on between Marco and Horner,
[47:19.000 -> 47:26.600] that's in larger sense tied to the fate of the Red Bull organization post Dietrich matters.
[47:26.800 -> 47:31.280] So he is in the worst possible place at the worst possible time.
[47:31.480 -> 47:33.680] And he is he is lost.
[47:33.880 -> 47:37.000] He knows he can do it and what Red Bull really want.
[47:37.200 -> 47:39.320] And I believe them when they say this.
[47:39.520 -> 47:42.560] I don't believe a lot of what they say, but I do believe them on this.
[47:42.760 -> 47:49.280] They Horner has said we no longer have a driver pairing like other driver pairings. They need someone to defend
[47:49.280 -> 47:57.200] their world constructors place next season when McLaren and Mercedes and Ferrari are all a lot,
[47:57.200 -> 48:05.280] lot closer. And that's what he's going to have to prove to them over the next five races or else it will be day done for him.
[48:05.280 -> 48:12.960] Or, or Perez's massive slump in form coincided with them deciding that Daniel Ricciardo could
[48:12.960 -> 48:18.080] come back and they put him in the Alpha Tauri, then Perez's performance goes off a cliff and
[48:18.080 -> 48:22.240] now they can say, well if you don't finish P2 we'll get rid of you and put Ricciardo in the car.
[48:22.240 -> 48:25.120] The thing we wanted to happen anyway.
[48:25.120 -> 48:28.480] Play the bumper then they can't argue. Haha, no the bumper's going, it's too late.
[48:30.880 -> 48:34.960] Let's see, Kyle. Do you remember when... I'm old enough to remember.
[48:36.480 -> 48:42.800] I'm old enough to remember when the FIA president, Mohammed Ben Salaim, said that he was gonna step
[48:42.800 -> 48:45.600] back because he'd peed everyone off and
[48:45.600 -> 48:48.740] they were like, stop saying things.
[48:48.740 -> 48:49.740] Please stop saying things.
[48:49.740 -> 48:50.740] He'd be like, oh yeah, I'm stepping back.
[48:50.740 -> 48:51.740] I'm stepping back.
[48:51.740 -> 48:53.100] Sort of doing the opposite of that now.
[48:53.100 -> 48:54.820] He's very much stepping forward.
[48:54.820 -> 48:55.820] Yeah.
[48:55.820 -> 48:56.820] Surprising.
[48:56.820 -> 49:03.660] So I presume this is about him basically telling FOM and Liberty, no, we've approved them and
[49:03.660 -> 49:04.660] we don't think you...
[49:04.660 -> 49:05.480] Andretti. Yeah. Yeah, Andretti.
[49:05.480 -> 49:10.720] And thinking like we've approved Andretti and we don't think you can do anything about
[49:10.720 -> 49:11.720] it.
[49:11.720 -> 49:12.720] So that's a good point.
[49:12.720 -> 49:13.720] I was going to say that myself.
[49:13.720 -> 49:15.200] He was supposed to be stepping back.
[49:15.200 -> 49:19.000] Somebody's put another 20p into Benny and he started talking again.
[49:19.000 -> 49:21.080] And I don't know what's going on, basically.
[49:21.080 -> 49:27.920] So to be honest, it's like when your parents argue for this and that's never
[49:27.920 -> 49:35.560] good. But in this case, I actually think for Formula One, me personally, I'm incredibly
[49:35.560 -> 49:40.400] disillusioned with the governance of Formula One and how it's come about in the last four
[49:40.400 -> 49:45.440] or five years. I think this could be a good sign that they're locking, they're
[49:45.440 -> 49:46.440] locking horns.
[49:46.440 -> 49:49.120] Because I think we'd all love to see an 11th team on the grid.
[49:49.120 -> 49:53.280] Now, he's basically contesting and all the other teams, you need to get them out of the
[49:53.280 -> 49:54.280] conversation.
[49:54.280 -> 49:55.840] The other teams should not have a say.
[49:55.840 -> 49:57.600] And can I say the F word, please?
[49:57.600 -> 49:58.600] Go?
[49:58.600 -> 49:59.600] No.
[49:59.600 -> 50:00.600] Oh, fine.
[50:00.600 -> 50:01.600] Fine.
[50:01.600 -> 50:02.600] Fine, Kyle.
[50:02.600 -> 50:03.600] Franchise.
[50:03.600 -> 50:07.440] They're all saying they're in this self-made franchise now. And it's like, no,
[50:07.440 -> 50:12.320] you shouldn't even have an input to the discussion. The dilution fees are crazy. I know Matt's got
[50:12.960 -> 50:20.640] more info on this than I. So yeah, I think Benny now speaking up against FOM is actually a good
[50:20.640 -> 50:24.880] thing. I want to see them clash. And the fact that the head of the FIA has come out and said, well,
[50:24.260 -> 50:29.600] a good thing. I want to see them clash and the fact that the head of the FIA has come out and said, well, we've approved them. We can't see how you can deny them. I think it's
[50:29.600 -> 50:30.600] quite a big statement.
[50:30.600 -> 50:37.400] Now, Matt, we have thrilled our fellows here in our Patreon, in our, sorry, not in our
[50:37.400 -> 50:46.780] Patreon, in our panel WhatsApp chat, because we fundamentally agree with the facts. But in fact, just to sort of lay
[50:46.780 -> 50:56.180] out, there's a two-stage process with Andretti's application. So Andretti applied to the FOM,
[50:56.180 -> 51:03.420] which is run by the FIA president, and Andretti basically passed all the criteria to do it.
[51:03.420 -> 51:06.780] And for the FOM to say, no, you can't join
[51:06.780 -> 51:12.220] us or we're not going to approve you, they would have to, under anti-competition laws
[51:12.220 -> 51:17.500] and to not butt heads with the European Union, would have to find some kind of safety reason
[51:17.500 -> 51:25.800] to deny them. And I don't think they have that safety reason. And Mohammed bin Salaim wants Andretti to join or certainly just
[51:25.800 -> 51:32.300] wants to ruin Christmas dinner for FOM, for Stefano Dominicali
[51:32.300 -> 51:35.640] and seems like hell-bent on doing whatever will upset Liberty Media at the
[51:35.640 -> 51:42.820] moment. So technically that's it. The FIA has approved Andretti's application so
[51:42.820 -> 51:49.080] they can go racing but then it it gets complicated, Matt, because then they have to form a commercial agreement
[51:49.080 -> 51:55.560] with Liberty Media, and Liberty Media doesn't necessarily have to offer them a commercial
[51:55.560 -> 52:01.580] agreement, or there's no guarantee that the negotiations for that commercial agreement
[52:01.580 -> 52:04.480] to be on telly and stuff will be successful.
[52:04.480 -> 52:06.000] So the process is far from over.
[52:06.000 -> 52:13.000] Well, in the sense that, yeah, the logistics, etc., and so on and so forth, need to be negotiated.
[52:13.000 -> 52:15.000] Well, no, that's not done yet.
[52:15.000 -> 52:19.000] That does take some time, and it does need to happen.
[52:19.000 -> 52:28.440] But in terms of Liberty's legal ability to deny Andretti a place on the grid by citing commercial
[52:28.440 -> 52:31.560] reasons, this is the nut of our disagreement.
[52:31.560 -> 52:37.480] I've gone back and looked at it, and I'm pretty sure the EU will come after Liberty
[52:37.480 -> 52:48.960] just as they did the FIA back in 99, 2000, 2001, if they, in a de facto way, keep Andretti off of the grid.
[52:48.960 -> 52:54.160] So, and this is where we disagree, because I don't think the EU would get involved in that,
[52:54.160 -> 53:00.160] because they would get involved if the FIA had said, no, we disapprove your application.
[53:00.160 -> 53:07.240] Whereas now, it's perfectly reasonable that, well, they just might not agree a commercial
[53:07.240 -> 53:11.760] agreement. So what's the EU going to say? Oh, you're being unreasonable, Liberty. You
[53:11.760 -> 53:16.320] have to take less money. Because what Liberty will say is, well, we're not actually stopping
[53:16.320 -> 53:22.180] you joining the grid. But since there's no commercial agreement, there's no obligation
[53:22.180 -> 53:26.120] for them to show Andretti's car, so they could cut away
[53:26.120 -> 53:30.680] every time an Andretti car comes into shop, for example, be super petty about it.
[53:30.680 -> 53:34.600] And then that would make Andretti's job difficult, because it would be hard to find sponsors.
[53:34.600 -> 53:39.040] So effectively, the lack of a commercial agreement would keep them off the grid,
[53:39.040 -> 53:44.240] but actually legally, they could go onto the grid. And this is the problem,
[53:44.240 -> 53:48.740] because I think that there is a will from Liberty, and it's a guess,
[53:48.740 -> 53:54.200] but there seems to be a reluctance from Liberty and the teams in cahoots, who are all singing
[53:54.200 -> 53:58.520] from the same song sheet, and you've got Lawrence Stroll saying, well, if it ain't broke, don't
[53:58.520 -> 54:00.120] fix it, and all that kind of stuff.
[54:00.120 -> 54:02.100] So they all seem to be together.
[54:02.100 -> 54:07.360] And Horner came out and said, well, if they brought their own engine, I'd have no objection. But since they haven't got an engine, I don't like it.
[54:08.160 -> 54:10.120] That's where I think it falls down.
[54:10.120 -> 54:17.520] And I think FOM Liberty can put enough of a spanner in the works without actually saying no.
[54:18.120 -> 54:21.440] And you are more than entitled to think that.
[54:21.440 -> 54:22.680] And we differ here.
[54:22.720 -> 54:27.960] We're talking about EU law, Articles 81 81 and 82 if anyone wants to go look those up
[54:28.200 -> 54:32.360] But the reason I continue to think that and I'll just share this is
[54:33.440 -> 54:37.660] Not a lawyer. The reason I think that is if you go back and read the original
[54:38.480 -> 54:46.560] Statements they notified the commercial side of the FIA back then because F FIA commercial and legal were all one. They talk
[54:46.560 -> 54:52.720] a lot about removing the commercial so that competitors won't be kept off of the grid.
[54:53.280 -> 54:57.600] And I think it's not a very far leap for anyone looking at it to say that,
[54:57.600 -> 55:02.000] oh, well, what was the intent of the original agreement? Well, it was clearly to keep this
[55:02.000 -> 55:09.480] exact situation from happening. And I appreciate your being very clever, Liberty lawyers, but yeah, we just made Apple change
[55:09.480 -> 55:10.860] their charging port.
[55:10.860 -> 55:12.860] So we're really not going to go for this.
[55:12.860 -> 55:13.860] Okay.
[55:13.860 -> 55:18.400] So just that before we go to Kyle, I just want to say, Liberty will not be keeping Andretti
[55:18.400 -> 55:19.400] off the grid.
[55:19.400 -> 55:23.060] So they absolutely are not doing anything to block Liberty being on the grid.
[55:23.060 -> 55:24.940] They just won't be making a commercial agreement.
[55:24.940 -> 55:25.920] So Kyle.
[55:25.920 -> 55:30.240] Yeah, now I think I read somewhere, it was maybe yesterday or the day before, that I
[55:30.240 -> 55:35.440] think Ferrari now are starting to make some positive noises between Andretti. And yeah,
[55:35.440 -> 55:39.960] their Alpine engine deal has probably expired and fallen through, but Ferrari have come
[55:39.960 -> 55:43.960] up now and said, I think they'll be willing to give them an engine supply. And I think
[55:43.960 -> 55:47.280] it's a bit rich of some of the teams, particularly Horner, saying
[55:47.280 -> 55:51.280] that they should bring their own engines with them and an engine supplier with
[55:51.280 -> 55:53.440] them when essentially they've been a customer engine team.
[55:53.440 -> 55:56.080] No, they've built their own team from scratch.
[55:56.080 -> 55:59.520] They first, they had their very own Tag Heuer, which they
[55:59.520 -> 56:01.120] developed in a watch factory.
[56:01.440 -> 56:04.840] And then they now have Red Bull powertrains, which have nothing to do
[56:05.440 -> 56:09.360] with Honda, and they better not do because they had a whole engine freeze to help them catch up. So that
[56:09.360 -> 56:13.920] had better have been from scratch. It wasn't from scratch, that's the Honda Power Unit.
[56:14.880 -> 56:22.720] And also with Liberty FOM, I think it's incredibly short-sighted to try to keep it down to 10 teams.
[56:22.720 -> 56:25.280] There is 12 slots that they've sort of closed down.
[56:25.280 -> 56:26.800] We could potentially have 12 teams,
[56:26.800 -> 56:28.560] but from a commercial standpoint,
[56:28.560 -> 56:31.440] it doesn't make much sense to me,
[56:31.440 -> 56:33.080] unless they're just using it as a cash cow
[56:33.080 -> 56:34.620] to make as much money.
[56:34.620 -> 56:36.520] I mean, that's clearly what they're doing.
[56:36.520 -> 56:38.640] But if for the longevity of the sport,
[56:38.640 -> 56:39.480] you've got 10 teams,
[56:39.480 -> 56:43.720] what happens if there's a bit of a financial crisis again,
[56:43.720 -> 56:46.580] and Mercedes decide to pull out, they're then left with nine teams.
[56:46.800 -> 56:50.080] You're not going to have another team ready to jump, waiting on the
[56:50.580 -> 56:52.540] sidelines and that's bad for the sport.
[56:52.540 -> 56:56.240] More teams would be better for the sport as a whole and the longevity of the
[56:56.240 -> 56:59.040] sport in my humble, honest opinion.
[56:59.040 -> 57:03.920] So I'm frustrated that they're trying to block this and really disappointed
[57:03.920 -> 57:05.200] in all of the other teams of
[57:05.200 -> 57:11.200] trying to get in the way and basically being quite selfish and trying to keep keep it all to
[57:11.200 -> 57:16.040] themselves. Apart from now it seems like Ferrari are now starting to make some positive noises.
[57:16.040 -> 57:23.920] You know who agrees with you Kyle? The CEO of Rodan Racing, one of the denied teams,
[57:23.920 -> 57:27.360] has said the following thing. I mean, look, it's crazy that
[57:27.360 -> 57:33.040] the actual teams would even have any input into the decision to bring in a new team. That's like
[57:33.040 -> 57:38.960] the inmates running the asylum. He also went through and absolutely demolished their dilution
[57:38.960 -> 57:44.240] fee. He says, what is it, 900 million a year? 90 million a team? That's 90 million dollars,
[57:44.240 -> 57:45.280] problem sorted.
[57:45.280 -> 57:47.160] They're bringing more than that already.
[57:47.160 -> 57:50.480] I don't know what these teams are complaining about,
[57:50.480 -> 57:54.720] but you're also right in that for all they get wrong,
[57:54.720 -> 57:56.680] I think we could agree like the track limits
[57:56.680 -> 57:58.960] were much better policed this time around.
[57:58.960 -> 58:00.440] We can talk about that later,
[58:00.440 -> 58:03.280] but Binnie has basically said,
[58:03.280 -> 58:07.680] look, they need to remember remember we're the landlord here.
[58:07.680 -> 58:10.740] We lease Formula One to Liberty.
[58:10.740 -> 58:16.040] They are the tenant and it's they need to remember that we have we have a commonality
[58:16.040 -> 58:17.520] of interest here.
[58:17.520 -> 58:22.080] But at the end of the day, it's FIA sport, not Liberties.
[58:22.080 -> 58:25.280] Oh, see, this is this is what Kyle was saying.
[58:25.280 -> 58:28.160] You know, it's mom and it's mom and dad, mom and dad arguing.
[58:28.160 -> 58:35.200] And I've got a feeling that they're they're heading for divorce because basically dad's
[58:35.200 -> 58:40.240] after therapy agreed that he would just, you know, stop sticking his nose into everything
[58:40.240 -> 58:41.920] and just be a bit more chill.
[58:41.920 -> 58:45.600] But dad is showing absolutely no chill whatsoever
[58:45.600 -> 58:48.320] and this family just isn't working.
[58:48.320 -> 58:58.240] Okay, bit of track news then. So Jules, you were talking about Qatar having a
[58:58.240 -> 59:02.720] hundred-year deal or whatever it is they've signed, but Spa only gets one.
[59:02.720 -> 59:07.440] Silverstone only gets one. It seems like the popular tracks
[59:07.440 -> 59:13.520] seem to be begging for a year at a time, a rolling contract, but you turn to some of
[59:13.520 -> 59:18.720] the less popular tracks and they've suddenly got these huge multi-year deals. I think this
[59:18.720 -> 59:26.960] makes people sad. What's the skinny on Spa? Yeah, so Spa landed a deal until 2025 this week.
[59:27.160 -> 59:31.400] They already had their contract for next season,
[59:31.400 -> 59:36.400] but they keep getting only one year extensions from-
[59:36.840 -> 59:39.440] They're the Bottas of tracks.
[59:39.440 -> 59:41.080] Yeah, exactly.
[59:42.320 -> 59:46.720] Exactly, as you say, like Qatar and all these other new tracks,
[59:46.720 -> 59:50.880] they get 10 year deals, some of them without even being raced on yet.
[59:51.320 -> 59:57.640] And with a lot of fans who like the traditional tracks or the evergreen tracks,
[59:58.880 -> 01:00:01.000] this this doesn't sit well.
[01:00:01.000 -> 01:00:05.820] And you can imagine why, because they're often more authentic
[01:00:05.820 -> 01:00:08.500] and they have terms with actual names
[01:00:08.500 -> 01:00:12.360] and recognizable runoffs, et cetera.
[01:00:12.360 -> 01:00:17.360] So thing is, SPA, whether we like it or not,
[01:00:17.600 -> 01:00:21.420] is actually constantly filling in a gap
[01:00:21.420 -> 01:00:23.960] that's left by South Africa.
[01:00:23.960 -> 01:00:26.840] South Africa was planned to be on the calendar
[01:00:26.840 -> 01:00:32.440] already this year, and it didn't make it. So, SPA was added to that...
[01:00:32.440 -> 01:00:36.040] The roster in that part.
[01:00:36.040 -> 01:00:41.880] Yeah, they got allocated, so to say. And that's what keeps happening to them, because South
[01:00:41.880 -> 01:00:47.760] Africa doesn't get their financial package together. They keep
[01:00:47.760 -> 01:00:54.880] filling in that spot with spa, which doesn't sound very promising for the fans of that track
[01:00:54.880 -> 01:01:02.800] because it would mean that whenever South Africa is ready, spa could disappear. And you'd say like,
[01:01:02.800 -> 01:01:05.760] well, why don't they just ditch one of the other tracks then?
[01:01:05.760 -> 01:01:07.240] SPA, it's so cool.
[01:01:07.240 -> 01:01:18.880] Thing is, SPA has had a financial difficulty for many, many years.
[01:01:18.880 -> 01:01:24.880] Government is always funding them for a part.
[01:01:24.880 -> 01:01:28.880] They've had massive reconstruction in the last couple of years
[01:01:29.440 -> 01:01:34.800] and the fee they pay to be on the calendar is among the lowest of the whole calendar. Only
[01:01:34.800 -> 01:01:46.360] Monaco and Imola pay less than Spa and you need to think of amounts of around 15 million for Monaco and Imola, and then Spa pays 22 million. But as I said
[01:01:46.360 -> 01:01:53.680] before in this episode, Qatar pays 55 million a year, that is American dollars. So you can
[01:01:53.680 -> 01:01:59.960] imagine with all kinds of tracks and cities that are wanting to get on this calendar,
[01:01:59.960 -> 01:02:05.560] and FOM can be like, yeah, well, we could get all these tracks for 55 million a year. And
[01:02:05.560 -> 01:02:14.320] then Spa comes, yeah, hi, we'd like to pay 22 if possible. It's an easy picture to paint.
[01:02:14.320 -> 01:02:21.220] So at least we have them until 2025. And the Belgians themselves, they are optimistic because
[01:02:21.220 -> 01:02:30.520] they say we've improved our infrastructure because Spa was a hell to get to, or to get away from, worse than Silverstone.
[01:02:30.520 -> 01:02:38.160] And they have put a lot of effort in the fan engagement and the things to do besides the
[01:02:38.160 -> 01:02:41.040] racing during those weekends.
[01:02:41.040 -> 01:02:45.000] But yeah, it's a difficult position they're in
[01:02:46.280 -> 01:02:48.600] because their unique selling point
[01:02:48.600 -> 01:02:51.360] is the authenticity of their trick.
[01:02:51.360 -> 01:02:52.200] The nostalgia.
[01:02:52.200 -> 01:02:56.220] So it's almost like F1 is just staying with Spa
[01:02:56.220 -> 01:02:58.200] until the new sexy thing comes along.
[01:02:58.200 -> 01:02:59.840] I promise my marriage isn't in trouble.
[01:02:59.840 -> 01:03:01.900] I don't know why all the analogies
[01:03:01.900 -> 01:03:03.760] are about marriages breaking up.
[01:03:03.760 -> 01:03:05.360] But yeah, you mentioned the logistics
[01:03:05.360 -> 01:03:10.880] in Silverstone. Every time I think about even going for a Friday practice, I think about the
[01:03:10.880 -> 01:03:15.520] parking and having to do the park and ride to get into Silverstone. It's a nightmare. But look,
[01:03:15.520 -> 01:03:20.880] I'm a massive hypocrite when it comes to these old tracks, because when it comes to Monaco and
[01:03:20.880 -> 01:03:25.360] people go, oh yeah, but it's part of the history of F1. I'm like, no, history means nothing.
[01:03:25.360 -> 01:03:26.960] Stop being a stick in the mud.
[01:03:26.960 -> 01:03:28.600] Monaco is obviously not suitable.
[01:03:28.600 -> 01:03:29.600] You need to move on.
[01:03:29.600 -> 01:03:32.080] We need the tilker drones and the proper tracks,
[01:03:32.080 -> 01:03:36.040] but you say get rid of Spa or Silverstone or Hungara ring,
[01:03:36.040 -> 01:03:40.200] and I will get in the ring with you, no head guards,
[01:03:40.200 -> 01:03:43.480] because I'll go, how can you possibly have Formula One
[01:03:43.480 -> 01:03:51.120] without Spa, without Silverstone, without Hungaroring? How can you kick Barcelona off? But you could make that same argument.
[01:03:51.120 -> 01:03:56.720] You could say, look, Barcelona and Hungaroring are dinosaurs in terms of how they can work with
[01:03:56.720 -> 01:04:06.400] these Formula One cars. Yet I put up that same defence, the same Monaco defense that I then shout at when people want to keep Monaco.
[01:04:06.400 -> 01:04:13.320] But I think there is something to be said to that hardcore of traditional tracks, that
[01:04:13.320 -> 01:04:18.840] if you just were to get rid of all the European tracks, I mean, that would hurt F1 significantly.
[01:04:18.840 -> 01:04:25.600] So how far can they go down that line, Matt, of just saying, well, you know, we're going to take the money,
[01:04:25.600 -> 01:04:31.520] sorry, Europe? Well, I think they can go reasonably far. The issue for me with Spa,
[01:04:31.520 -> 01:04:36.400] compared to some of the other tracks that you've thrown out there, is that it almost always
[01:04:36.400 -> 01:04:43.040] produces good racing because of the fundamental design of the track. It's also, I think, important
[01:04:43.040 -> 01:04:46.480] because of its length. There are not very many tracks that
[01:04:46.480 -> 01:04:51.200] long anymore, and it fundamentally changes certain things about the strategy of the racing,
[01:04:51.200 -> 01:04:55.120] particularly if there's safety cars and so on and so forth. But most importantly,
[01:04:55.680 -> 01:05:00.640] they've made a huge investment in upgrading that racetrack. There's new grandstands,
[01:05:00.640 -> 01:05:05.200] they've changed the profiling of the dangerous corners, and I don't know.
[01:05:05.200 -> 01:05:09.800] There's a lot of tracks I think could come and go from the European season and you'd
[01:05:09.800 -> 01:05:13.840] be like, oh right, yeah, I remember this historic track, but I don't miss it too much.
[01:05:13.840 -> 01:05:14.840] All right, Kyle.
[01:05:14.840 -> 01:05:15.840] Spa...
[01:05:15.840 -> 01:05:16.840] Oh, go on.
[01:05:16.840 -> 01:05:22.120] I was going to say, Spa is one of those tracks that you would really miss if it wasn't there.
[01:05:22.120 -> 01:05:23.120] All right, cool.
[01:05:23.120 -> 01:05:25.800] Well, let's, let's, which European tracks can we, can we get rid of?
[01:05:25.800 -> 01:05:26.800] Can we do that?
[01:05:26.800 -> 01:05:29.800] So Monaco, I'll get rid of Monaco, Kyle.
[01:05:29.800 -> 01:05:32.000] Okay, Kyle, Imola.
[01:05:32.000 -> 01:05:36.880] Yeah, just because, well, it's not very good for modern day Formula One.
[01:05:36.880 -> 01:05:40.920] It's a bit too tight and twisty, but the last couple of races we have there, we've had some
[01:05:40.920 -> 01:05:41.920] sort of weather.
[01:05:41.920 -> 01:05:44.720] Well, no, we haven't had a couple of races, it was just the last race because of all the
[01:05:44.720 -> 01:05:45.200] terrible raining and flooding all the terrible.
[01:05:45.720 -> 01:05:47.480] Raining and flooding in the region.
[01:05:47.480 -> 01:05:48.000] Oh yeah.
[01:05:48.840 -> 01:05:49.680] Imola can go.
[01:05:49.920 -> 01:05:50.120] Yeah.
[01:05:50.160 -> 01:05:54.280] I think the, when they went there before, last year was at 21 when we were last,
[01:05:54.400 -> 01:05:57.400] I don't know, 22 when we were last there, we've both had a, we've had sort of
[01:05:57.400 -> 01:05:59.920] inclement weather conditions and ended up having quite a good race, but it's
[01:05:59.920 -> 01:06:01.560] not really suited to modern F1.
[01:06:02.040 -> 01:06:04.600] Um, I don't know which other ones I'd get rid of.
[01:06:04.640 -> 01:06:08.760] Um, what about Hungaroring? That's always throwing up great racing to be fair,
[01:06:08.760 -> 01:06:14.880] hasn't it? Oh, Zandvoort we can get rid of, obviously, Jules. Zandvoort can go.
[01:06:14.880 -> 01:06:21.560] Well, believe it or not, I think that track should be on the list to ditch ASAP,
[01:06:21.560 -> 01:06:28.360] because what Carl says about Imola, I think that goes even, how do you
[01:06:28.360 -> 01:06:29.560] say this?
[01:06:29.560 -> 01:06:30.640] Even more so, doubly so.
[01:06:30.640 -> 01:06:39.040] Even more so for Zandvoort, apart from the whole, oh look, what a great Dutch party it
[01:06:39.040 -> 01:06:40.040] is.
[01:06:40.040 -> 01:06:41.040] Orange, look at all the orange.
[01:06:41.040 -> 01:06:50.920] Yeah, I mean, hardly any interesting races. It's so tight, it feels like it shrunk because you washed it on too high a temperature.
[01:06:50.920 -> 01:06:56.800] I'll defend it slightly in that, it looks like a roller coaster.
[01:06:56.800 -> 01:06:58.880] Is it new, the banking in sector one?
[01:06:58.880 -> 01:06:59.880] That's genuinely...
[01:06:59.880 -> 01:07:04.000] Yeah, that's been designed for the return of Formula One, especially.
[01:07:04.000 -> 01:07:08.160] Okay, that is a genuinely interesting corner where you go, actually, we're going to turn
[01:07:08.160 -> 01:07:11.360] up this weekend. I don't know what line they're going to take through there.
[01:07:11.360 -> 01:07:16.720] True, but has there ever been an overtake in that corner? No, that's not possible. Has there
[01:07:16.720 -> 01:07:20.960] ever been an interesting overtake on that straight because of that turn? Don't really
[01:07:20.960 -> 01:07:26.000] think so. I got an interesting one. I'm curious what you guys or LiveChat says.
[01:07:26.000 -> 01:07:28.000] What about Baku, Azerbaijan?
[01:07:28.000 -> 01:07:39.000] Oh man, we argue about this a lot. I hate Baku as a Grand Prix track. I think unless you get a crash, that race always just, you know, filters out.
[01:07:39.000 -> 01:07:46.080] So if you have a well-timed safety car, it's if not it's dull. Matt? My only defense of
[01:07:46.080 -> 01:07:50.840] Zandvoort would be it gave us Liam Lawson. Doing what? In that very banked corner
[01:07:50.840 -> 01:07:56.320] racing Formula One cars. So your defense is that the sector one banked
[01:07:56.320 -> 01:08:01.400] corner injured Ricciardo. That's your defense of it. Basically yes. I think it's an
[01:08:01.400 -> 01:08:04.040] interesting track yes but it's too it's too small it does look like a
[01:08:04.040 -> 01:08:07.440] roller coaster but if you jump on it like in a sim, Kyle, you know,
[01:08:07.440 -> 01:08:10.240] you go, that's a genuine racing challenge.
[01:08:10.240 -> 01:08:11.480] Oh, it's amazing.
[01:08:11.480 -> 01:08:15.180] And actually, you know, I kind of half agree with Jules, but in Dan Fort's defense this
[01:08:15.180 -> 01:08:18.800] year, the race caused by the weather was pretty amazing.
[01:08:18.800 -> 01:08:23.440] I think it had the most overtakes almost in history for the Grand Prix.
[01:08:23.440 -> 01:08:24.960] It was crazy, a number of overtakes.
[01:08:24.960 -> 01:08:25.280] And yes,
[01:08:25.280 -> 01:08:30.800] that's because there was people on dry tires and the wet people and wet tires in the dry
[01:08:30.800 -> 01:08:35.600] and everything. It, it was a perfect storm to get it a good race. Uh, but it was the races there
[01:08:35.600 -> 01:08:40.480] have actually been quite good. I think it was a disaster when it was first put on and yeah,
[01:08:40.480 -> 01:08:44.080] it's a great sort of a hot lap and it's more of a qualifying circuit really. Isn't it? If it stays
[01:08:44.080 -> 01:08:47.760] completely dry, it's more of a qualifying circuit. So yeah, I would like to
[01:08:47.760 -> 01:08:51.920] see Zandvoort stay for a few more years, but at this rate, I think if there is no Max Verstappen
[01:08:51.920 -> 01:08:56.880] on the grid, Zandvoort is not going to be on the calendar. It's possible that the Dutch support
[01:08:56.880 -> 01:09:02.160] might wane if Verstappen retires, but I think we're some way off that yet. There is a missed
[01:09:02.160 -> 01:09:05.840] opportunity, surely, in Europe, where you look at the weather
[01:09:05.840 -> 01:09:11.800] here and yes, we had a bit of a drizzly summer in the UK, but that has not been the norm.
[01:09:11.800 -> 01:09:16.880] The rest of Europe had a scorchio summer and we would have done, except the jet stream
[01:09:16.880 -> 01:09:20.760] was slightly further south than it normally is. But we have had blistering hot summers.
[01:09:20.760 -> 01:09:26.080] You go to the Silverstone Grand Prix now on a typical year and it's boiling. You have
[01:09:26.080 -> 01:09:31.120] to bring an umbrella to hide from the sun. Britain didn't used to be like that, by the way. So,
[01:09:31.120 -> 01:09:34.800] people used to come to see the Silverstone Grand Prix and go, oh, Britain's got lovely weather.
[01:09:34.800 -> 01:09:40.480] No, it hasn't. We're like the most overcast country in the world, statistically. That's true.
[01:09:41.120 -> 01:09:46.000] But you look at now, October, we've gone from t-shirt weather to genuinely winter
[01:09:46.000 -> 01:09:50.560] weather. We skipped hoodie weather altogether. The problem is that if you race in these kind
[01:09:50.560 -> 01:09:54.720] of conditions like we've got here today with a bit of an icy wind, the tyres don't work.
[01:09:54.720 -> 01:10:02.240] So could you have a Euro tyre, a European tyre made for cold conditions and then run the whole
[01:10:02.240 -> 01:10:05.120] European season in autumn and you're
[01:10:05.120 -> 01:10:10.320] nearly guaranteed to have fantastic wet racing on historic circuits. Oh I'm a
[01:10:10.320 -> 01:10:14.960] genius! Get me the FIA, get me their number, I'm sure they'll do that. Kyle
[01:10:14.960 -> 01:10:19.640] what's the downside of that? Let's just race in the rain. It's gonna be
[01:10:19.640 -> 01:10:23.600] lots of red flag watching. They're a bit too sort of risk averse now aren't they
[01:10:23.600 -> 01:10:27.840] really? So there's gonna be lots of red flag watching, lots're a bit too sort of, um, risk averse now, aren't they really? So, um, it's going to be lots of red flag watching, lots of delays, lots of, uh, I
[01:10:27.840 -> 01:10:33.240] mean, no red flags and safety cars breed more safety cars and red flags. Um, I did feel
[01:10:33.240 -> 01:10:38.560] like, uh, at some point in the summer watching some of the Euro races with dodgy weather
[01:10:38.560 -> 01:10:43.680] and whatnot, that I spent more time sitting on the sofa, watching red flags than I did
[01:10:43.680 -> 01:10:48.060] actual racing. And it was getting quite frustrating, you know, maybe back in the day, like
[01:10:48.060 -> 01:10:52.020] you said, when I was a lad and safety wasn't really so much of a concern,
[01:10:52.020 -> 01:10:55.700] there was hardly any such thing as red flags only when there was an absolute
[01:10:55.700 -> 01:10:57.260] calamity was there a red flag.
[01:10:57.740 -> 01:11:01.780] Um, but now in, yeah, they're sort of the quite sort of rightful, sort of
[01:11:01.780 -> 01:11:06.320] very safety minded sort of culture now that they're very, very trigger-happy with
[01:11:06.320 -> 01:11:11.120] red flags and safety cars. So I think if we race in cold, wet, damp...
[01:11:11.120 -> 01:11:12.640] So no grip and wet.
[01:11:12.640 -> 01:11:17.200] Yeah, no grip and the wet, I think we'll get a very limited amount of racing because there's
[01:11:17.200 -> 01:11:20.080] going to be lots of carbon fibre strewn all over the place.
[01:11:20.080 -> 01:11:24.240] Do you know what, for a moment there, I really thought I was onto something. Don't clip that,
[01:11:24.240 -> 01:11:29.600] we'll not put that on the social media. All right, Matt, let's have a little bit of a look forward
[01:11:29.600 -> 01:11:35.120] to then the Circuit of the Americas, which is the next race coming up. And it's way too late,
[01:11:35.120 -> 01:11:40.880] but it's a lovely time for you guys, so you get to have a nice afternoon race. And I think in the UK,
[01:11:41.760 -> 01:11:46.440] I think it starts at 8pm? I think it's 8 in the evening for us in the UK.
[01:11:46.440 -> 01:11:49.480] So it's very much an evening race.
[01:11:49.480 -> 01:11:55.960] And I think we won't start our live stream until like half 11 or 11 o'clock, I think.
[01:11:55.960 -> 01:11:58.040] 90 minutes after the race finishes.
[01:11:58.040 -> 01:12:03.040] No, no, it's a good two hours after the race finishes, because I've got another thing to do.
[01:12:03.040 -> 01:12:05.520] Will you prepare the show notes for us.
[01:12:05.520 -> 01:12:06.880] But yeah, Circuit of the Americas,
[01:12:06.880 -> 01:12:09.560] definitely one of my favorite tracks on the calendar.
[01:12:09.560 -> 01:12:13.240] Speaking of a roller coaster, I absolutely love that turn one.
[01:12:13.240 -> 01:12:15.160] I love the fact that at the very moment,
[01:12:15.160 -> 01:12:17.880] they're trying to grip down onto the apex, Kyle.
[01:12:17.880 -> 01:12:20.760] I mean, you know how we pretend sim racing is exactly
[01:12:20.760 -> 01:12:23.080] the same as what Formula One drivers are going through.
[01:12:23.080 -> 01:12:24.960] But honestly, even if you play it on the game,
[01:12:24.960 -> 01:12:28.160] you'll see why that turn one is so challenging. At the very moment you want to
[01:12:28.160 -> 01:12:33.760] be turning and biting onto the apex, you're cresting a hill. Yeah, and there's so many
[01:12:33.760 -> 01:12:40.240] multiple lines in there. It's so wide and narrows down in there. It is a superb, superb turn one.
[01:12:40.240 -> 01:12:44.640] And multiple lines, we've seen multiple moves in there, we've seen multiple crashes into that
[01:12:44.640 -> 01:12:48.800] corner, but you're exactly right. It's really, really, really tough. And I love
[01:12:48.800 -> 01:12:53.400] the race start at term one in Kota because you could have somebody who's looking complete,
[01:12:53.400 -> 01:12:56.560] you know, they're looking all right, they're leading going in and then somebody can just
[01:12:56.560 -> 01:13:02.320] send it or somebody can just hang out wide, cut back and get back underneath them. Another
[01:13:02.320 -> 01:13:05.160] thing about Kota, which we don't get so much on the sim
[01:13:05.160 -> 01:13:06.840] because the tarmac has changed now.
[01:13:06.840 -> 01:13:11.040] And what's going to be quite poignant for this year is it's insanely bumpy.
[01:13:11.080 -> 01:13:15.880] The track surface is awful and they try to remedy the bumps by literally shaving
[01:13:15.920 -> 01:13:17.320] some of the top of the track off.
[01:13:17.960 -> 01:13:21.600] It got to the point, you know, sort of, it broke Sebastian Vettel's
[01:13:21.600 -> 01:13:22.760] suspension a couple of years ago.
[01:13:22.760 -> 01:13:25.240] You remember that when he was coming over, I think it was so, so bumpy.
[01:13:25.240 -> 01:13:28.840] So this is really going to hurt some cars which don't have a good ride.
[01:13:28.840 -> 01:13:33.240] So it could really hurt Mercedes or Red Bull was struggling a bit in Singapore.
[01:13:33.240 -> 01:13:34.600] Weren't they going over the curbs and the bumps?
[01:13:34.600 -> 01:13:35.440] So it could hurt them.
[01:13:35.440 -> 01:13:36.120] So it depends.
[01:13:36.320 -> 01:13:40.560] It's really going to favor a car that rides the bumps and the curbs quite well.
[01:13:40.760 -> 01:13:41.800] Um, so it's going to be interesting.
[01:13:41.800 -> 01:13:43.840] We could see a bit of a shaken up field.
[01:13:43.840 -> 01:13:47.480] So that's going to be a huge challenge for all of the teams. But what a... Yeah, I'm a massive
[01:13:47.480 -> 01:13:51.600] fan of the circuit, apart from that final sector. Do not like the Mickey Mouse final
[01:13:51.600 -> 01:13:53.480] sector too much. It's too Mickey Mouse.
[01:13:53.480 -> 01:13:55.280] Just do what IndyCar does and just ignore it.
[01:13:55.280 -> 01:13:56.280] Yeah, right.
[01:13:56.280 -> 01:14:01.800] Something to look out for in that turn one, though, you know, from a racing point of view,
[01:14:01.800 -> 01:14:07.160] is the best line takes longer to get all the way round the
[01:14:07.160 -> 01:14:12.480] racing line to the apex than if you just fire it up the inside. But if you fire it up the
[01:14:12.480 -> 01:14:16.400] inside there's enough room on the exit to legitimately say, well I would have made the
[01:14:16.400 -> 01:14:23.200] corner. So you can do a death bomb down the inside with no real hope of exiting the corner
[01:14:23.200 -> 01:14:25.320] faster but you're technically going
[01:14:25.320 -> 01:14:30.320] to make the corner. I think that makes it one of the most chaotic corners in F1.
[01:14:30.320 -> 01:14:35.240] Yeah, a bit like what Lewis did to Rosberg in 2015, if you remember that. He just sent
[01:14:35.240 -> 01:14:38.800] up the inside, donked the wheels. It was a bit of a Verstappen special actually, just
[01:14:38.800 -> 01:14:42.440] a send and just launch it. Lewis just stayed on the track and Rosberg ended up getting
[01:14:42.440 -> 01:14:47.920] pushed off. So we've seen that quite a lot into that corner and I'll expect to see a lot more this weekend.
[01:14:47.920 -> 01:14:49.360] Jason Vale All right, Matt, what are we looking forward
[01:14:49.360 -> 01:14:55.600] to then? Basically, upgrades. A lot of teams talked about upgrades and also maybe we'll end by
[01:14:55.600 -> 01:14:58.960] talking about what still is up for grabs in 2023.
[01:14:58.960 -> 01:15:01.520] Matt McClure Yeah, so we have stakes and we have
[01:15:01.520 -> 01:15:08.760] things. As far as things go, I think the HaASS upgrade is got to be at the top of everyone's list.
[01:15:08.760 -> 01:15:12.080] This upgrade is so massive.
[01:15:12.080 -> 01:15:17.680] They've rented a special garage so they could start working on the cars early and get them
[01:15:17.680 -> 01:15:20.120] built up in time for the race.
[01:15:20.120 -> 01:15:26.480] Three pallets worth of new parts to go with the two cars they already have. This is a fantastic story.
[01:15:26.480 -> 01:15:31.160] And they're chasing Red Bull design, basically.
[01:15:31.160 -> 01:15:32.300] As is Ferrari.
[01:15:32.300 -> 01:15:38.200] So if you're thinking that, oh, they finally cut those apron strings, so to speak.
[01:15:38.200 -> 01:15:39.280] No, not really.
[01:15:39.280 -> 01:15:41.080] They're all headed the same direction.
[01:15:41.080 -> 01:15:45.000] And much like Mercedes has been, they're limited by what the chassis
[01:15:45.000 -> 01:15:46.960] they brought to this season.
[01:15:46.960 -> 01:15:49.040] They can't do everything they want.
[01:15:49.040 -> 01:15:53.360] But this car is so completely hated.
[01:15:53.360 -> 01:15:58.100] Steiner said the last race of this specification ended worse than it started.
[01:15:58.100 -> 01:16:00.920] That's why we are grateful that it's time is up.
[01:16:00.920 -> 01:16:05.280] So the people at Haas are very very very excited about it and therefore you
[01:16:05.280 -> 01:16:11.000] should be too. I also like speaking of carbon fiber all over the track that
[01:16:11.000 -> 01:16:17.560] McLaren is debuting recycled carbon fiber on their car in their attempt to
[01:16:17.560 -> 01:16:22.360] become a fully circular car ie one that can be built from entirely recyclable
[01:16:22.360 -> 01:16:26.680] materials. Now it's only featuring like driver branding right now,
[01:16:26.680 -> 01:16:30.080] but if they like it, they're gonna use it going forward
[01:16:30.080 -> 01:16:34.720] and they're gonna keep on trying to incorporate more of it.
[01:16:34.720 -> 01:16:36.920] Of course, recall they also work with B-Comp,
[01:16:36.920 -> 01:16:41.520] which uses the flax grass replacement for composites as well
[01:16:41.520 -> 01:16:43.160] that I think front wing end plates
[01:16:43.160 -> 01:16:44.580] are now required to be made from
[01:16:44.580 -> 01:16:48.880] because they cause less trouble when they break. A little bit heavier though, so
[01:16:48.880 -> 01:16:54.080] not always a replacement for carbon fiber. But the main thing has got to be, we've got
[01:16:54.080 -> 01:17:00.600] Mercedes and Ferrari very close together, and we've now got McLaren that after the last
[01:17:00.600 -> 01:17:05.820] race made up 34 points, I believe, on Ferrari in a single race.
[01:17:05.820 -> 01:17:10.660] They're about 80 points back, and Ferrari about 30 points back of Mercedes.
[01:17:10.660 -> 01:17:15.260] Now this being a sprint weekend, which I know immediately makes everyone happy.
[01:17:15.260 -> 01:17:16.260] Last one though.
[01:17:16.260 -> 01:17:17.260] No it isn't!
[01:17:17.260 -> 01:17:18.260] The last one.
[01:17:18.260 -> 01:17:20.060] No hang on, Qatar was a sprint weekend.
[01:17:20.060 -> 01:17:21.680] Yes, I know.
[01:17:21.680 -> 01:17:24.020] And Circuit of the Americas is a sprint weekend as well.
[01:17:24.020 -> 01:17:25.400] I'm pretty sure it is.
[01:17:25.400 -> 01:17:26.400] Is that real?
[01:17:26.400 -> 01:17:27.400] Is that real?
[01:17:27.400 -> 01:17:28.880] They've got back-to-back sprint weekends?
[01:17:28.880 -> 01:17:30.400] You should be happy about it.
[01:17:30.400 -> 01:17:32.360] Why should I be happy about it?
[01:17:32.360 -> 01:17:34.080] Well, because the FIA say so.
[01:17:34.080 -> 01:17:35.640] Because I like sprint weekends.
[01:17:35.640 -> 01:17:36.640] We all do, don't we?
[01:17:36.640 -> 01:17:39.240] I can't believe they've got back-to-back.
[01:17:39.240 -> 01:17:44.280] I have been substantially less whingy about it this season because, okay, I'm just trying
[01:17:44.280 -> 01:17:45.320] to accept it. I'm trying to genuinely just enjoy the weekends and go this season because I'm just trying to accept it.
[01:17:45.320 -> 01:17:49.780] I'm trying to genuinely just enjoy the weekends and go, okay, I'll accept it for what it is.
[01:17:49.780 -> 01:17:54.120] And like when it comes to Hongaro, the Hongaro ring, that was a sprint weekend, wasn't it?
[01:17:54.120 -> 01:17:57.560] And we had a kiting event and I didn't check in on the Saturday once.
[01:17:57.560 -> 01:18:01.160] And I think there's a couple where I'm just, I was busy enough on the Saturday that I didn't
[01:18:01.160 -> 01:18:02.160] check on it.
[01:18:02.160 -> 01:18:03.580] I didn't catch up on it and it's fine.
[01:18:03.580 -> 01:18:07.920] And when I could catch up on it, I really tried to absorb it and be positive, Jules.
[01:18:07.920 -> 01:18:11.680] But if you're going to do back-to-back sprint weekends, it's just too much.
[01:18:11.680 -> 01:18:14.000] It's too much on a weekend.
[01:18:14.000 -> 01:18:22.840] That actually caught myself today when I realized, oh, isn't there a sprint in Austin this year?
[01:18:22.840 -> 01:18:27.440] But then apparently there is. And immediately I felt like dirty and
[01:18:27.440 -> 01:18:34.640] guilty, like what are you actually hoping for a sprint race? Are you entertained? But I must admit
[01:18:34.640 -> 01:18:41.200] this season, it's grown on me. And maybe also because of the lack in the World Drivers'
[01:18:41.200 -> 01:18:49.440] Championship, the lack of tension and excitement there, that these sprint races feel a bit like, oh, they're loose cannons.
[01:18:49.440 -> 01:18:54.720] And the only thing that ruins it, like last time, is when half of the laps
[01:18:54.720 -> 01:18:56.200] is done behind a safety car.
[01:18:56.200 -> 01:18:59.720] Which seems to happen, actually, in an awful lot of the sprint races I've caught.
[01:18:59.720 -> 01:19:01.040] There's an early safety car.
[01:19:01.040 -> 01:19:05.440] Surely it's a no-brainer to have some safety car fuel on board and
[01:19:05.440 -> 01:19:10.040] just go, so how long is the sprint race? 17 laps. Why not car? Why not just have, okay,
[01:19:10.040 -> 01:19:13.720] everyone carried 25 laps. And if there's no safety car, we expect it to have eight laps
[01:19:13.720 -> 01:19:19.880] of fuel left. Otherwise, you know, if we do five laps under the safety car, use it. Do
[01:19:19.880 -> 01:19:25.680] you ever make fuel ways? Who cares? Well, why does it make a difference how much the fuel weighs?
[01:19:27.120 -> 01:19:31.040] Go ahead, go. It's not extra time in football. It's like added time, isn't it? You've got
[01:19:31.040 -> 01:19:35.200] injury time. Like, are they going to go down to sudden death then? Right, the next overtake wins
[01:19:35.200 -> 01:19:40.960] the championship. Matt, what's the difference if everyone's got that same fuel penalty?
[01:19:40.960 -> 01:19:49.600] That they start slower cars, man. Every gram matters on a Formula 1 car. They barely put enough fuel in, and sometimes they
[01:19:49.600 -> 01:19:50.720] don't. Hello, Aston Martin.
[01:19:50.720 -> 01:19:55.120] Yeah, but on Sunday, they're going to start with full tanks. So what's the difference? Who cares?
[01:19:56.000 -> 01:19:59.440] Well, the difference is, how many people do you want to pass?
[01:19:59.440 -> 01:20:04.960] Every 10 kilograms is what? Like, is it three-tenths, Kyle? I forget the trade-off.
[01:20:04.960 -> 01:20:05.680] Yeah, yeah, it's about that.
[01:20:05.680 -> 01:20:09.440] Every 10 kilograms is like three tenths. So the less fuel I put in my car,
[01:20:10.080 -> 01:20:15.360] the faster it goes. And so I put as little fuel in as possible until I get to the point where I
[01:20:15.360 -> 01:20:18.000] can't use the throttle enough to go as fast as I need to.
[01:20:18.000 -> 01:20:23.680] Answer me this. How much overtaking can you do under the safety car for half of the sprint race?
[01:20:24.400 -> 01:20:26.520] We should ask Perez about that.
[01:20:26.520 -> 01:20:27.520] Oh, zing!
[01:20:27.520 -> 01:20:31.640] Sorry, he kind of did that to himself.
[01:20:31.640 -> 01:20:35.240] Alonso dropped the dime on him, by the way.
[01:20:35.240 -> 01:20:41.400] When he got dinged for the safety car violation, it was Alonso that called it in to Aston to
[01:20:41.400 -> 01:20:42.720] get him in trouble.
[01:20:42.720 -> 01:20:43.720] He's a dirty snitch.
[01:20:43.720 -> 01:20:45.800] Alonso grassing up over... really?
[01:20:45.800 -> 01:20:46.800] He's always been.
[01:20:46.800 -> 01:20:47.800] I know, go figure.
[01:20:47.800 -> 01:20:51.520] I think Perez passed me before the safety car line, he says, innocently.
[01:20:51.520 -> 01:20:58.760] Okay, so Jules has like turned... you've seen the old 70s version of Invasion of the Body
[01:20:58.760 -> 01:21:03.440] Snatchers when the hero finds... oh, it's a spoiler, you know, he's 50 years old...
[01:21:03.440 -> 01:21:09.200] you know, turns and it turns out he's been possessed by aliens as well and he points to the person and goes like, and you know, that's the
[01:21:09.200 -> 01:21:14.960] big dramatic reveal. That's when Jules said, oh I don't mind the sprint weekends now. I was like, no,
[01:21:14.960 -> 01:21:21.600] Jules has been got, he's been overtaken by, by, Kyle, tell me, look me in the eyes, Kyle, this is a
[01:21:21.600 -> 01:21:25.280] test. Do you approve of sprint weekends? Kyle Larson No.
[01:21:25.280 -> 01:21:26.480] Jason Vale Okay, he's safe. He's safe.
[01:21:26.480 -> 01:21:28.400] Kyle Larson No, I wouldn't. But I will say this.
[01:21:29.040 -> 01:21:33.120] I actually preferred them when it actually impacted the weekend. And I said something
[01:21:33.120 -> 01:21:36.800] completely different on this podcast before because I just hated them outright. I still
[01:21:36.800 -> 01:21:42.240] think they're a complete and utter nonsense and trying to smash a square peg into a round hole
[01:21:42.240 -> 01:21:48.960] and telling us all that we love it and we should all wrap it up. But actually now the Saturday pretty much has no impact on the rest of the weekend. It's just
[01:21:48.960 -> 01:21:52.720] useless. I think I put a tweet out before saying, you know, on the Friday, that was a really good
[01:21:52.720 -> 01:21:57.920] Friday. Formula one resumes again on Sunday because Saturday is just completely useless.
[01:21:57.920 -> 01:22:03.840] I actually think I'd actually prefer it now if it was like the old system and it actually, you know,
[01:22:03.840 -> 01:22:05.360] you start on the grid because from your positions from the sprint race, because it just, if it was like the old system and it actually, you know, you start on the grid
[01:22:05.360 -> 01:22:09.720] because from your positions from the sprint race, because it just, it's just meaningless.
[01:22:09.720 -> 01:22:14.680] It's utterly, utterly meaningless. It's entertainment and racing for the hell of it. And if there's
[01:22:14.680 -> 01:22:18.200] too much of a good thing, that good thing then gets diminished. And that's what I think
[01:22:18.200 -> 01:22:19.960] the sprint does to Formula One.
[01:22:19.960 -> 01:22:26.520] I mean, my taco analogy still, still resonates, Matt, doesn't it? Which is like, I'm not going to not eat the tacos.
[01:22:26.520 -> 01:22:27.240] They're on the plate.
[01:22:27.240 -> 01:22:28.320] I didn't want them.
[01:22:28.320 -> 01:22:30.480] They're not the amount of tacos I would order.
[01:22:30.480 -> 01:22:32.160] But if I'm there, they're on the plate.
[01:22:32.160 -> 01:22:34.240] I'm going to continue eating tacos.
[01:22:34.240 -> 01:22:34.960] Yeah, I know.
[01:22:34.960 -> 01:22:36.400] And Kyle says it doesn't matter.
[01:22:36.400 -> 01:22:40.200] But let's face it, Max won his championship in a sprint race.
[01:22:40.200 -> 01:22:42.840] How can they not matter?
[01:22:42.840 -> 01:22:44.560] You can't see Kyle's face right now.
[01:22:44.560 -> 01:22:48.760] But if I could describe it adequately, it would just be a treat for everyone
[01:22:48.760 -> 01:22:51.020] Let me tell you now the thing about the sprint race
[01:22:51.020 -> 01:22:59.600] the only thing about the sprint race that matters this weekend is that if anything goes wrong or if everything goes right for
[01:23:00.280 -> 01:23:05.400] McLaren which also I do need to remind you is still 11 points behind Aston, although
[01:23:05.400 -> 01:23:09.120] no one takes those 11 points seriously now.
[01:23:09.120 -> 01:23:13.000] If everything goes right for McLaren and wrong for Ferrari, we have a big battle there to
[01:23:13.000 -> 01:23:14.720] the end of the year.
[01:23:14.720 -> 01:23:21.160] Conversely, if the same happens with Ferrari and Mercedes, we have a big battle.
[01:23:21.160 -> 01:23:26.080] And then there's always Perez, who's trying desperately to hang on to that number two spot
[01:23:26.720 -> 01:23:33.120] in the driver's championship. So there's actually a huge amount of stakes going on this weekend that
[01:23:33.120 -> 01:23:38.400] have nothing to do with the person who's already won it. But absolutely, you know, if you want to
[01:23:38.400 -> 01:23:43.680] watch something, a lot of things are going to be decided this weekend, I think. Anyone else annoyed
[01:23:43.680 -> 01:23:46.360] with McLaren? I'm annoyed with McLaren.
[01:23:46.360 -> 01:23:46.860] Why?
[01:23:46.860 -> 01:23:47.360] Why?
[01:23:47.360 -> 01:23:50.040] Because, firstly, because I love McLaren.
[01:23:50.040 -> 01:23:50.960] But I'm annoyed that they-
[01:23:50.960 -> 01:23:52.000] That's a good reason.
[01:23:52.000 -> 01:23:54.360] Yeah, well, they came out with a pig, didn't they,
[01:23:54.360 -> 01:23:55.480] at the beginning of the season.
[01:23:55.480 -> 01:23:58.520] Quickly identified that, and then their B-spec
[01:23:58.520 -> 01:24:00.160] came out super quick.
[01:24:00.160 -> 01:24:02.640] Was it Barcelona?
[01:24:02.640 -> 01:24:03.200] Silverstone.
[01:24:03.200 -> 01:24:03.840] Was it Silverstone?
[01:24:03.840 -> 01:24:09.000] OK, so a good chunk of the way into the season and then their second lot of upgrades
[01:24:09.000 -> 01:24:15.000] basically then got them to where they are now. Fantastic, brilliant, that's great, but it's not real.
[01:24:15.000 -> 01:24:21.000] They're fighting against, they're peaking as Mercedes and Ferrari are, like what are Mercedes doing?
[01:24:21.000 -> 01:24:26.240] They're basically saying, we are bringing upgrades, but they're all aimed at learning for 2024
[01:24:26.760 -> 01:24:32.800] Ferrari have done their normal thing of you know, they gave up in they gave up around spa time, but now
[01:24:33.520 -> 01:24:40.040] Mercedes are as McLaren are fighting a shadow battle. So yeah, they look brilliant at the moment, but they're not really fighting anyone and
[01:24:40.560 -> 01:24:45.800] and then everyone's getting excited and thinking that McLaren are now the second best team in F1.
[01:24:45.800 -> 01:24:51.000] And that's great for McLaren, it's great for their sponsors, and they're having their moment in the sun,
[01:24:51.000 -> 01:24:55.000] and their drivers are getting some attention, but we're going to start the grid next season.
[01:24:55.000 -> 01:24:57.000] That's not going to mean that.
[01:24:57.000 -> 01:24:59.800] They're not going to line up as the second best team next season.
[01:24:59.800 -> 01:25:03.000] And it's just really annoying how many people think that is going to happen.
[01:25:03.000 -> 01:25:05.920] So that's why I'm annoyed. Kyle?
[01:25:11.520 -> 01:25:12.080] I think they're building for next season as well. I think they found a concept to go towards,
[01:25:15.200 -> 01:25:16.880] a bit like what Mercedes are doing now. So their upgrades they're bringing now
[01:25:20.880 -> 01:25:26.580] are geared towards next season. They changed their concept of their car midway through the season and boy did they get it right. And I think next year's car will just be an evolution of this year's car.
[01:25:26.580 -> 01:25:31.540] So I have confidence that they'll still be up there in a similar position now.
[01:25:31.540 -> 01:25:32.540] Second best car?
[01:25:32.540 -> 01:25:33.540] No.
[01:25:33.540 -> 01:25:35.980] Or will they be where they should have been at the start of this season, which is comfortably
[01:25:35.980 -> 01:25:40.020] ahead of Alpine and Aston Martin?
[01:25:40.020 -> 01:25:47.760] I'd like to think that they are going to be probably on par with Ferrari and Mercedes.
[01:25:47.760 -> 01:25:54.440] Oh no, that is a massive shout. That is a massive shout. I'll take a shiny penny against
[01:25:54.440 -> 01:25:57.960] that. The annoying thing about this season has been, yes, Red Bull have, you know, disappeared
[01:25:57.960 -> 01:26:03.760] with one car into the distance, but the second best car has changed all season. And that
[01:26:03.760 -> 01:26:07.460] is a lot because everybody was out of phase
[01:26:07.460 -> 01:26:08.380] developmentally.
[01:26:08.380 -> 01:26:09.660] Ferrari probably came out,
[01:26:09.660 -> 01:26:10.780] obviously Aston Martin came out
[01:26:10.780 -> 01:26:12.460] with the second best car to start with.
[01:26:12.460 -> 01:26:15.020] Ferrari were as strong as they were gonna get
[01:26:15.020 -> 01:26:19.820] and have occasionally shone to be that second best car.
[01:26:19.820 -> 01:26:22.180] Mercedes kind of changed direction a little bit early on
[01:26:22.180 -> 01:26:23.480] and said, this concept's not gonna be
[01:26:23.480 -> 01:26:24.860] the championship winning car.
[01:26:24.860 -> 01:26:28.280] And then McLaren came in late. So it's been a really, it's
[01:26:28.280 -> 01:26:33.260] been really peaky. And at every point in this season, who whichever car has been second,
[01:26:33.260 -> 01:26:38.320] the internet has gone wild going, see, they are the second best car. But we've said that
[01:26:38.320 -> 01:26:40.440] about five different teams this season.
[01:26:40.440 -> 01:26:44.280] So you're saying they're basically the person who turns up to the house party at midnight
[01:26:44.280 -> 01:26:48.080] with a fresh case of beer with no personality and now they're the hero.
[01:26:48.080 -> 01:26:49.080] Yeah, exactly.
[01:26:49.080 -> 01:26:50.080] Oh, Dave's here.
[01:26:50.080 -> 01:26:51.080] Sweet!
[01:26:51.080 -> 01:26:52.080] Yeah, he's got beer!
[01:26:52.080 -> 01:26:53.080] Dave's got the keg, he's the best.
[01:26:53.080 -> 01:26:56.080] Yeah, no one was talking about Dave early on, were they?
[01:26:56.080 -> 01:26:57.640] Anyway, that's a bit of a wrap.
[01:26:57.640 -> 01:26:59.520] Yeah, but they're finishing closer.
[01:26:59.520 -> 01:27:02.800] They're finishing closer to Red Bull.
[01:27:02.800 -> 01:27:08.960] And let's recall, like, they just missed their window to start the season with this car.
[01:27:08.960 -> 01:27:11.860] They couldn't get it built in time, and they knew it.
[01:27:11.860 -> 01:27:14.920] They brought the chassis, more or less, that they needed.
[01:27:14.920 -> 01:27:19.600] And so unlike Mercedes, they were able to do, I think, a greater percentage of what
[01:27:19.600 -> 01:27:20.880] they wanted to.
[01:27:20.880 -> 01:27:27.200] And they're obviously on the right track when it comes to chasing down Red Bull. Because Red Bull
[01:27:27.200 -> 01:27:33.040] 2 is constrained by what their chassis can do. They will make changes for next season. But if
[01:27:33.040 -> 01:27:41.280] I'm going into next season as the clearly the second fastest car, which I think that they are,
[01:27:42.000 -> 01:27:46.400] then I would expect them to be there or thereabouts, even
[01:27:46.400 -> 01:27:49.620] if they just brought the car they finished the season with.
[01:27:49.620 -> 01:27:53.260] And let's not forget, they have a new wind tunnel to play with now, which is going to
[01:27:53.260 -> 01:27:59.060] massively improve their development speed because they don't have to use the one in
[01:27:59.060 -> 01:28:00.440] Germany.
[01:28:00.440 -> 01:28:05.000] It'll be a lot quicker to test the things that they have the time to test.
[01:28:05.000 -> 01:28:08.840] If I'm McLaren, I'm very excited about this.
[01:28:08.840 -> 01:28:15.260] Oh, look, you're being like Ferrari fans at the start of every season.
[01:28:15.260 -> 01:28:18.120] You're being like Ferrari fans in testing every single season.
[01:28:18.120 -> 01:28:19.120] Oh, we got this.
[01:28:19.120 -> 01:28:20.120] We got this.
[01:28:20.120 -> 01:28:21.120] How dare I have a fact?
[01:28:21.120 -> 01:28:22.120] I know, it's terrible.
[01:28:22.120 -> 01:28:23.380] Well, okay, okay, good.
[01:28:23.380 -> 01:28:26.080] Let's bookmark this then for next season. Let's bookmark this
[01:28:26.080 -> 01:28:30.600] the same way we bookmarked everyone saying that us and Martin were going to be on podiums
[01:28:30.600 -> 01:28:40.080] for the whole season. Come on guys, peaks, not troughs. As in, it is a peak. And also
[01:28:40.080 -> 01:28:45.840] look at the troughs. And look at trends. Let's end on Jules giving us a quick update on Lewis
[01:28:45.840 -> 01:28:51.600] Hamilton losing the 2008 championship, finally. Yeah, speaking of things to look forward to,
[01:28:52.400 -> 01:29:02.800] the FIA, let's say something nice about them in this show. They have asked the Felipe Massa team
[01:29:10.200 -> 01:29:12.520] asked the Filippo Massa team for more time to look into his challenge regarding the 2008 world title.
[01:29:12.520 -> 01:29:20.440] So the deadline was this week for the FIA legal team to come up with a reply.
[01:29:20.440 -> 01:29:31.680] And they asked the Massa team, can we have four weeks more? Because apparently they want to give the indication that we're working really hard on this and
[01:29:31.680 -> 01:29:33.000] we're putting in a lot of effort.
[01:29:33.000 -> 01:29:38.120] We want to leave no stone unturned to find everything we can get.
[01:29:38.120 -> 01:29:40.400] Do I hear sarcasm?
[01:29:40.400 -> 01:29:45.840] I just imagine, you know, over there in France in the FIA headquarters, there's just a couple
[01:29:45.840 -> 01:29:52.160] of guys having a laugh every day. Oh yeah, let's start working again on the Felipe Massa challenge.
[01:29:53.040 -> 01:30:01.600] Probably just thinking, yeah, let the lawyer bill of Felipe Massa's lawyer team run, you know.
[01:30:01.600 -> 01:30:05.920] You have nailed it with that bill, man. They're just gonna hand Felipe the
[01:30:05.920 -> 01:30:15.040] world's biggest check, because there's no way. And understand, it took me about an hour and a
[01:30:15.040 -> 01:30:21.840] half to go back and calculate all the possible points. All the possible points. If you disqualify
[01:30:21.840 -> 01:30:31.200] the team for the whole season, if you disqualify them for the race, the only way Massa gets a championship is if you decide that the race
[01:30:31.200 -> 01:30:37.200] should have been stopped at the moment of that accident, which is a sheer absurdity
[01:30:37.200 -> 01:30:41.640] because everybody else was capable of running to the end of the race. You disqualify the
[01:30:41.640 -> 01:30:45.600] team, nothing changes. You disqualify them for the whole season,
[01:30:46.240 -> 01:30:51.600] nothing changes. That's not true. Hamilton wins by a little bit more. Only in a very specific
[01:30:51.600 -> 01:30:53.200] RL And unprecedented.
[01:30:53.200 -> 01:31:00.960] CW Unprecedented, never been done before. And never mind that is a signatory to the FIA rules,
[01:31:00.960 -> 01:31:06.720] they're required to go to FIA court anyway to solve this problem. It just like,
[01:31:06.720 -> 01:31:12.960] all it is is Felipe Massa is just going to wind up owing his lawyers a whole heck of a lot more
[01:31:12.960 -> 01:31:18.640] money at the end of this process, which never had any chance to begin with. And I still think,
[01:31:19.200 -> 01:31:26.440] I still think in the back of my mind, my little tinfoil hat says, who paid for the lawyers?
[01:31:26.440 -> 01:31:30.180] Was it someone who was recently convicted of fraud in the UK?
[01:31:30.180 -> 01:31:32.480] Could it have been just a distraction?
[01:31:32.480 -> 01:31:35.240] I don't know, but I like to think it's true.
[01:31:35.240 -> 01:31:36.240] Hang on, hang on.
[01:31:36.240 -> 01:31:37.240] I think we have to be careful.
[01:31:37.240 -> 01:31:41.280] I think we have to be careful because if you're talking about Bernie Ecclestone, he wasn't
[01:31:41.280 -> 01:31:43.080] convicted of fraud in the UK.
[01:31:43.080 -> 01:31:45.000] No, that was Germany.
[01:31:45.000 -> 01:31:46.000] Singapore.
[01:31:46.000 -> 01:31:47.000] No, Germany.
[01:31:47.000 -> 01:31:51.640] He paid a $60 million tab in Germany.
[01:31:51.640 -> 01:31:52.640] Was it fraud?
[01:31:52.640 -> 01:31:53.640] I don't know.
[01:31:53.640 -> 01:31:54.640] Whatever he was convicted of.
[01:31:54.640 -> 01:31:55.640] Bribery?
[01:31:55.640 -> 01:31:56.640] I don't know.
[01:31:56.640 -> 01:31:57.640] Illegalness.
[01:31:57.640 -> 01:31:58.640] He was convicted of illegalness.
[01:31:58.640 -> 01:31:59.640] How about that?
[01:31:59.640 -> 01:32:00.640] I thought it was not declaring...
[01:32:00.640 -> 01:32:03.560] Okay, we're not lawyers and we're obviously not financial journalists.
[01:32:03.560 -> 01:32:09.360] I thought it was not declaring earnings in Singapore was what he was got a suspended sentence for.
[01:32:09.920 -> 01:32:18.160] Um, he got, he got, well, my headline says fraud guilty 600 million pounds, but that could not be
[01:32:18.160 -> 01:32:26.240] entirely accurate. I will give you that. He was convicted in a UK court. He does owe them 600 million pounds, and it was for
[01:32:26.800 -> 01:32:31.360] shenanigans about not reporting things. That I know is accurate.
[01:32:31.360 -> 01:32:34.800] And those things, they were in Singapore.
[01:32:34.800 -> 01:32:36.960] Oh, okay, good. So I'm not completely mad, Jules. Thank you.
[01:32:36.960 -> 01:32:44.560] You know, coincidentally, the place where the whole thing Alibaba still wound up about happened.
[01:32:44.560 -> 01:32:48.720] When the headline came about when it was Ecclestone Singapore guilty, I went,
[01:32:48.720 -> 01:32:54.000] oh my goodness, is this related to the Massa thing? But what I heard or read somewhere random,
[01:32:54.000 -> 01:32:59.440] probably TikTok, was that Felipe Massa is going to take a run at being the president,
[01:32:59.440 -> 01:33:06.720] or he's going to run for some kind of political office in Brazil and being crowned or being able to go,
[01:33:06.720 -> 01:33:09.280] I'm the rightful champion, will somehow help that?
[01:33:09.280 -> 01:33:09.760] I don't know.
[01:33:09.760 -> 01:33:11.200] Is this why he needs money?
[01:33:12.160 -> 01:33:17.520] I mean, just the only dots that connected in my head was Eccleston lives in Brazil
[01:33:17.520 -> 01:33:23.120] half the year. His wife is Brazilian, Massa is Brazilian. And if I needed a distraction
[01:33:23.120 -> 01:33:25.920] from my own particular Formula One problems,
[01:33:25.920 -> 01:33:31.720] which you know, obviously he's kind of a bit of a headline here, then what better distraction
[01:33:31.720 -> 01:33:37.800] could I have than this sort of a dog and pony show that's been chucked up before us?
[01:33:37.800 -> 01:33:42.920] I think it's very important to establish whether Lewis Hamilton was already a role model in
[01:33:42.920 -> 01:33:45.480] 2008, because that could be key to
[01:33:45.480 -> 01:33:50.640] this whole investigation. Go and follow these role models, go and follow Jules Segers at
[01:33:50.640 -> 01:33:57.780] Jules Segers F1, go and follow Kyle Power F1 and at Mattpt55 on Twitter. All the links
[01:33:57.780 -> 01:34:01.600] to our social media stuff will be in the show notes below. You can follow me at Spanners
[01:34:01.600 -> 01:34:05.680] Ready, Richard Ready on Facebook, and you can follow me on SpannersReady, RichardReady on Facebook, and you can follow me on Instagram
[01:34:05.680 -> 01:34:09.600] if you want to see some quite nice pictures. And there's enough people following me on Instagram
[01:34:09.600 -> 01:34:14.480] to encourage me to start posting general things about my life if you're interested.
[01:34:14.480 -> 01:34:20.480] And consider being a patron, patreon.com forward slash missed apex. The live stream is going to be
[01:34:20.480 -> 01:34:28.960] late on Sunday. I believe it's actually going to be 11pm or 11.30pm UK time. So if you're
[01:34:28.960 -> 01:34:34.800] up in the UK, come and join us. But it might be more the America's side. But that review will be
[01:34:34.800 -> 01:34:38.560] ready for your Monday morning commute. I am committed to staying up until two o'clock in
[01:34:38.560 -> 01:34:58.240] the morning to get that out to you guys. Until next time, work hard, be kind and have fun this was miss apex podcast
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