F1 News July 16th 2023

Spanners and Trumpets are joined by Chris ‘Comms’ Stevens and Danish TV journo Kristian ‘Chaos’ Pedersen as they sync all the F1 dates. From calendar crunches to new team negativity, from the perils of Pirelli to Alpha Tauri’s axe, no logistical bottleneck goes unsolved in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast. 

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Missed Apex FR3.5 Championship  |  Season 7  | Round 1  |  Race 1 -  (including pre-race content)

Missed Apex FR3.5 Championship  |  Season 7  | Round 1  |  Race 1

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# Missed Apex Podcast Episode Summary

**Segment 1: Nick de Vries Replacement**

* The episode begins with a discussion about the recent news of Nick de Vries being replaced by Daniel Ricciardo at AlphaTauri.
* Spanners believes that the decision was made before the Silverstone Grand Prix, citing Christian Horner's comments about Ricciardo's popularity with the crowd.
* Matt suggests that Ricciardo's impressive tire test performance in the Red Bull car may have influenced the decision.
* Christian highlights the upcoming changes at AlphaTauri, including a new headquarters and technical leadership, which may have factored into the decision to hire Ricciardo.
* Chris agrees that Ricciardo's PR value and marketability were likely significant factors in his hiring.

**Segment 2: Evaluating Nick de Vries' Performance**

* Spanners expresses his disappointment in de Vries' performance, considering his multiple world championships and experience.
* Christian suggests that de Vries' struggles may be due to the lack of testing opportunities and preparation for rookie drivers in modern Formula One.
* Matt points out that de Vries' performance in the Williams at Monza flattered him and that he had flashes of being around Tsunoda's pace.
* Spanners raises the possibility that Helmut Marko's preference for Ricciardo may have affected the team's treatment of de Vries.
* Chris highlights the reluctance of Red Bull to hire from within their junior driver program, despite having a strong pool of talent.

**Segment 3: Daniel Ricciardo's Prospects at AlphaTauri**

* Spanners predicts that Ricciardo's stint at AlphaTauri will be unsuccessful due to the team's poor car performance and Ricciardo's struggles with underperforming cars.
* Matt agrees that Ricciardo may struggle to adapt to the AlphaTauri car, especially with its reported braking issues.
* Christian believes that Ricciardo's popularity and marketability will benefit the team and Liberty Media, potentially leading to increased viewership.
* Chris disagrees, arguing that Ricciardo will likely be outperformed by Tsunoda and that the move is a short-term solution that will not benefit Ricciardo's career.

**Segment 4: 2024 Formula One Calendar**

* The discussion shifts to the recently released 2024 Formula One calendar, which features a record-breaking 24 races.
* Spanners expresses concern about the demanding schedule and its potential impact on the well-being of drivers, teams, and journalists.
* Matt agrees that 24 races is excessive and believes that Formula One should prioritize quality over quantity.
* Christian suggests that the calendar may be feasible for casual viewers who only watch the races on Sundays, but it could strain the resources of those who follow the sport more closely.
* The hosts discuss the potential logistical challenges of the密集的赛程, including the impact on testing, the summer break, and post-season testing.
* Spanners mentions that Zac Brown has reported that there is demand from racetracks for up to 30 Grand Prix per year, but the hosts agree that 24 races is the maximum that is logistically feasible. Sure, here is a detailed summary of the podcast episode transcript you provided, structured using the guidelines you specified.

**Introduction**

* The podcast episode features Spanners, Matt, Chris Stevens, and Kristian Pedersen discussing various topics related to Formula One, including the 2024 race calendar, the addition of new teams, and the impact of Liberty Media's ownership.

**2024 Race Calendar**

* The 2024 calendar has been released with several changes compared to previous seasons.
* The season will start with two Saturday races in Bahrain and Saudi Arabia due to Ramadan.
* The calendar includes popular tracks like Suzuka, Shanghai, and Silverstone, but also includes street circuits like Miami and Las Vegas.
* The season will conclude in Abu Dhabi, which has been a controversial choice among fans and experts.

**Addition of New Teams**

* The FIA is expected to approve two new entries to Formula One: HITAC and Andretti.
* However, FOM, the commercial rights holder of Formula One, has indicated that they may not allow the new teams to join the grid.
* Stefano Domenicali, the CEO of Formula One, has stated that the new teams must bring something special to the sport in order to be granted a place on the grid.
* The podcasters discuss the financial implications of adding new teams and the potential impact on the competitiveness of the midfield.

**Impact of Liberty Media's Ownership**

* The podcasters discuss Liberty Media's ownership of Formula One and the changes that have been made since they took over in 2017.
* They note that Liberty Media has focused on increasing the commercial value of the sport, which has led to increased revenue and profitability.
* However, they also express concerns that Liberty Media is prioritizing financial gain over the sporting aspects of Formula One.
* They discuss the potential long-term consequences of Liberty Media's ownership, including the possibility of a closed shop franchise system.

**Other Topics**

* The podcasters also discuss the recent performance of AlphaTauri and the future of the team.
* They also touch on the upcoming Formula E season and the title fight between Jake Dennis and Stoffel Vandoorne.

**Conclusion**

* The podcast concludes with a discussion about the future of Formula One and the challenges that the sport faces.
* The podcasters express their hope that Formula One will continue to grow and prosper, while also maintaining its unique identity and sporting integrity. * **Tire Strategy and Performance:**

* Pirelli tires have been a subject of debate, with some arguing that they are too durable and not providing enough strategic opportunities.

* The Silverstone race highlighted this issue, as teams struggled to manage tire wear and opted for higher tire pressures, resulting in reduced performance.

* Pirelli's conservative approach in tire development, aimed at preventing tire failures, has been questioned, as it may not align with the current formula that emphasizes tire strategy.

* **Points System:**

* There have been discussions about revising the points system to make it more rewarding for drivers finishing outside the top 10.

* Some believe that the current system, which awards 25 points for a win, is too heavily skewed towards the top finishers.

* Suggestions include awarding points to all finishers, or increasing the points difference between positions to create a more competitive midfield.

* **Refueling in Formula One:**

* The panel unanimously agreed that refueling should not be reintroduced in Formula One.

* Refueling added a tactical element to races, but it also made it difficult for viewers to follow the race until the final laps.

* The potential safety risks associated with refueling were also cited as a reason against its return.

* **Technical Innovations:**

* The Alpha Tauri team's decision to remove the front wing endplate on Yuki Tsunoda's car was discussed.

* This move was seen as a bold and innovative approach to improve aerodynamic performance.

* However, it remains to be seen whether other teams will follow suit and adopt similar designs.

* **Calendar Crunch:**

* The addition of new races to the Formula One calendar has led to concerns about driver and team fatigue.

* The compressed schedule makes it challenging for teams to develop and transport their cars, and for drivers to maintain peak performance throughout the season.

* The panel acknowledged the need for a balanced calendar that considers the well-being of all stakeholders.

* **New Team Negativity:**

* The struggles of new teams in Formula One, such as Aston Martin and Williams, were highlighted.

* These teams have faced challenges in adapting to the new regulations and competing with the established top teams.

* The panel expressed concern about the potential negative impact on the sport if new teams continue to struggle.

* **Other Notable Points:**

* The Missed Apex FR3.5 Championship was mentioned as an example of grassroots motorsports and the development of young drivers.

* The importance of patron support for the Missed Apex podcast was acknowledged.

* The hosts encouraged listeners to send in their mailbag questions for future episodes. # Missed Apex Podcast Episode Summary: Season 7, Round 1, Race 1

## Introduction

* The podcast begins with the hosts, Spanners, Matt Trumpets, Chris Stevens, and Danish TV journalist Kristian "Chaos" Pedersen, discussing the upcoming Formula One race calendar and the challenges of accommodating all the races.
* They also discuss the recent negativity surrounding the new Alpha Tauri team and the potential return of refueling in Formula One.

## Refueling

* The hosts debate the pros and cons of refueling in Formula One, with Spanners and Pedersen expressing their support and Trumpets and Stevens voicing their opposition.
* They discuss the potential impact of refueling on strategy, safety, and the overall spectacle of the sport.

## Pirelli Tires

* The hosts discuss the recent struggles of Pirelli tires in Formula One, with several drivers experiencing punctures and blowouts in recent races.
* They speculate on the reasons for the tire failures and discuss the potential consequences for the sport if the problems continue.

## Calendar Crunch

* The hosts discuss the challenges of accommodating all the races on the Formula One calendar, with several races being scheduled for back-to-back weekends.
* They debate the impact of the calendar crunch on the teams and drivers and suggest potential solutions to the problem.

## New Team Negativity

* The hosts discuss the recent negativity surrounding the new Alpha Tauri team, with several drivers and team members expressing their dissatisfaction with the team's performance.
* They speculate on the reasons for the negativity and discuss the potential impact it could have on the team's future.

## Insights and Controversies

* The hosts highlight several insights and controversies raised during the podcast, including:
* The potential return of refueling in Formula One
* The struggles of Pirelli tires
* The challenges of the calendar crunch
* The negativity surrounding the new Alpha Tauri team

## Overall Message

* The overall message of the podcast is that Formula One is a complex and ever-changing sport, with many challenges and opportunities.
* The hosts provide a balanced and informative discussion of the various issues facing the sport, offering their insights and perspectives on the potential solutions.

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[01:03.100 -> 01:20.000] You are listening to Miss apex podcast. We live at one.
[01:20.000 -> 01:25.200] Welcome to missed apex podcast. I'm your host Richard Ready, but my friends call me Spanners.
[01:25.200 -> 01:28.880] So let's be friends. We've got a news show for you this week.
[01:30.320 -> 01:37.200] We'll take a detailed look at the 2024 calendar. We'll have a little bit of a late look at Silly
[01:37.200 -> 01:43.440] Season, all kicked off by De Vries. Is that the first domino to fall? And call me mad,
[01:43.440 -> 01:46.800] but I'm going to pick a fight with Matt about tyres.
[01:46.800 -> 01:51.200] We are an independent podcast produced in the podcasting shed with the kind permission of our
[01:51.200 -> 01:55.520] better halves. We aim to bring you a race review before your Monday morning commute.
[01:55.520 -> 01:57.520] We might be wrong but we're first.
[02:02.400 -> 02:07.080] I'm joined in the shed by the king of podcasting tires.
[02:07.080 -> 02:11.680] He was talking about tires when everyone was saying that it was boring.
[02:11.680 -> 02:13.120] And did that stop him?
[02:13.120 -> 02:14.120] No, it didn't.
[02:14.120 -> 02:15.120] It's Matt.
[02:15.120 -> 02:17.360] Tire-umpits.
[02:17.360 -> 02:22.200] It was Marco and Alpha Towery Garage with a Daniel Ricciardo lap time.
[02:22.200 -> 02:23.200] I love that.
[02:23.200 -> 02:24.200] We'll get into that.
[02:24.200 -> 02:26.160] Who did it for Nick DeVries?
[02:26.160 -> 02:26.720] Cluedo.
[02:26.720 -> 02:28.080] It's a Cluedo reference.
[02:28.080 -> 02:31.920] We're also joined by the future of British motorsport commentary.
[02:31.920 -> 02:33.280] It's Chris Stevens.
[02:33.280 -> 02:35.280] Hey, Spanners.
[02:35.280 -> 02:38.160] Speaking of which, got Paul Ricciardo coming up next weekend.
[02:38.160 -> 02:40.080] You guys should tune in to that.
[02:40.080 -> 02:42.480] Is that GT Tintop Racing?
[02:42.480 -> 02:42.880] It is.
[02:42.880 -> 02:45.000] It is the International GT Open.
[02:45.000 -> 02:48.000] Ah, with you commentating, I'll give it a go.
[02:48.000 -> 02:55.000] And we've got international superstar, DJ, philanthropist, and billionaire Christian Pedersen.
[02:55.000 -> 02:57.000] How's it going, Christian?
[02:57.000 -> 02:59.000] I wish. I'm back on the pod and Matt is back.
[02:59.000 -> 03:03.000] And I think of that as kind of a reunion.
[03:03.000 -> 03:05.320] Yeah, I would go with that.
[03:05.320 -> 03:08.160] But Matt, I have a question for you, just a short one.
[03:08.160 -> 03:10.920] You posted a picture of something weird,
[03:10.920 -> 03:13.720] which a phenomenon I witnessed the other day
[03:13.720 -> 03:18.720] where it's like a lot of human male people
[03:19.280 -> 03:22.040] in colorful dress, they're very thin.
[03:22.040 -> 03:23.240] I think they're very hungry.
[03:23.240 -> 03:28.680] And they are like riding about these two wheeleded things in the mountains, and people are screaming
[03:28.680 -> 03:30.240] at them, like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
[03:30.240 -> 03:35.840] And eventually, one of them will win a meal in Paris.
[03:35.840 -> 03:37.240] Why are you watching this?
[03:37.240 -> 03:43.840] Well, because that was my former competitive sport when I was younger.
[03:43.840 -> 03:47.600] And I follow it because it's the only real racing in the world.
[03:47.600 -> 03:53.840] And it's quite interesting to see motorsport emulating the kind of the bunch tactics. I
[03:53.840 -> 03:58.040] saw Formula E, Matt, and they kind of, because they didn't have the energy to get around
[03:58.040 -> 04:02.520] a track in, I think, Philadelphia, they were all kind of bunched up like in a, what do
[04:02.520 -> 04:06.240] you call a big group of cyclists? Do you call it the peloton?
[04:06.240 -> 04:08.240] You call it the peloton, or you call it the bunch.
[04:08.240 -> 04:14.640] Oh, the bunch. So they were all bunched up like crazy, exactly like cycling, for the first two-thirds of the race,
[04:14.640 -> 04:20.320] and then they had kind of a sprint at the end. But the tactics were like almost exactly like the Tour de France.
[04:20.760 -> 04:22.760] Yeah, well, I mean,
[04:23.640 -> 04:27.040] I just love a race that can be over a thousand miles long
[04:27.040 -> 04:32.240] and it's where I left it last night because I've not got to the end of today's stage.
[04:32.240 -> 04:38.360] There was 10 seconds separating the top two contestants after 50 hours of writing. I mean,
[04:38.360 -> 04:41.640] you just got to love anything that has those kinds of margins for the win.
[04:41.640 -> 04:47.360] Okay, good. Well, look, we're a few minutes into the show. Christian Pedersen has completely derailed it.
[04:47.360 -> 04:48.360] Check.
[04:48.360 -> 04:52.680] Matt has squeezed in a cycling reference.
[04:52.680 -> 04:53.680] Check.
[04:53.680 -> 04:54.680] Okay, good.
[04:54.680 -> 04:58.760] So maybe now we can talk about F1 and the news.
[04:58.760 -> 05:02.040] Big Dirty News.
[05:02.040 -> 05:08.480] Chris, you're my favourite at the moment, you haven't ruined the show yet.
[05:08.480 -> 05:09.480] Thanks, man.
[05:09.480 -> 05:10.480] No, it's okay.
[05:10.480 -> 05:13.720] Hey, look, here on Miss Daybreak's podcast, we do have a choice sometimes as to whether
[05:13.720 -> 05:19.840] to react to news, and we've done the odd breaking news, I think when Vettel retired, or if there's
[05:19.840 -> 05:23.440] some kind of big announcement, but we don't do it very often.
[05:23.440 -> 05:28.420] And I think in a situation like this, with Nick de Vries getting replaced by Daniel Ricciardo, I knew we didn't have
[05:28.420 -> 05:33.420] a show for the next five days. So obviously a lot of the low hanging fruit has been picked
[05:33.420 -> 05:39.600] apart to death, but the dust has settled now. And I think we can start thinking about A,
[05:39.600 -> 05:46.160] what we think the future will hold at Alpha Tauri, and also a little bit about the circumstances around
[05:46.160 -> 05:51.040] the replacement. Because here's my theory, Chris, and I don't think this is particularly
[05:51.040 -> 05:56.800] tinfoil hat. I think the decision was made to replace Nick de Vries with Daniel Ricciardo
[05:56.800 -> 06:02.760] before the Silverstone Grand Prix. Christian Horner all but gave it away on the stage and
[06:02.760 -> 06:05.160] he said he was trying to figure out who the crowd's
[06:05.160 -> 06:08.520] favourite drivers were. And obviously he says Hamilton, there's a cheer, Russell, there's
[06:08.520 -> 06:13.600] a cheer, Norris, there's a cheer, Verstappen. There was a mixed response. And then he goes,
[06:13.600 -> 06:18.600] well, what if we were to hire Ricciardo? Would you like us then? And you go, oh, well, that's
[06:18.600 -> 06:22.920] the obviously the big giveaway. But I think the writing was definitely on the wall when
[06:22.920 -> 06:30.260] Helmut Marko did that interview saying Christian Horner was right about Nick de Vries and I was wrong because he didn't
[06:30.260 -> 06:31.260] want him.
[06:31.260 -> 06:35.740] So this decision never got made on a cold Tuesday morning in Silverstone.
[06:35.740 -> 06:37.500] No, no, absolutely.
[06:37.500 -> 06:43.780] Obviously the big headline out of the decision was, oh, we put Daniel Ricciardo in the car
[06:43.780 -> 06:45.600] this morning for the, I think it was a
[06:45.600 -> 06:50.960] tyre test or something after Silverstone. He was driving the Red Bull and he was so amazing,
[06:50.960 -> 06:56.480] we decided to put him in the AlphaTauri. That's not quite how it happened. I'm sure it was the,
[06:56.480 -> 07:00.640] you know, that was a dotting the I and crossing the T moment. That's definitely the story they
[07:00.640 -> 07:04.480] painted though, isn't it? That they were all sat there, fine, we'll reluctantly give Ricciardo a
[07:04.480 -> 07:08.400] test after he's been begging and then there's just one guy with the stopwatch and as he
[07:08.400 -> 07:12.560] zooms past the start finishing line he's trying to get the attention of the other mechanics. Guys,
[07:12.560 -> 07:18.480] guys! Dramatically turns the stopwatch around. Oh my goodness, right, go put him in the car now.
[07:19.120 -> 07:24.640] But here's the thing, Matt, he was driving the Red Bull and he was reporting like, oh the Red
[07:24.640 -> 07:28.480] Bull's super quick. Well no, duh. I got a bit annoyed that people were going,
[07:28.480 -> 07:31.440] well, it would have been good enough for pole position in Silverstone.
[07:31.440 -> 07:35.600] Yeah, like on a completely different day with a completely different track state.
[07:36.640 -> 07:41.360] And it was a tire test. Do we even know what tires he was driving when he set that time?
[07:41.360 -> 07:46.920] Were these like the C5s and not the C1s or 3s or whatever they actually
[07:46.920 -> 07:52.640] qualified on? Do we know the fuel load? No, we don't. It's there's so many things that are
[07:52.640 -> 07:58.600] ridiculous about it. The only truth to that is that was probably the last thing they said to
[07:58.600 -> 08:04.560] him before he hit the track was, you know, if you put in some good lap times for us, the seat is
[08:04.560 -> 08:05.280] definitely yours. Because they, as Chris alluded to, they've been if you put in some good lap times for us, the seat is definitely yours.
[08:05.280 -> 08:09.760] Because they, as Chris alluded to, they've been looking at him in the simulator, reams of data
[08:09.760 -> 08:14.400] for months and months and months. They have a very good idea of how Ricardo is performing
[08:14.400 -> 08:20.320] compared to DeVries at this point. If I can just pick up on the firing of DeVries,
[08:20.880 -> 08:24.640] because I've been an advocate for Nick DeVries on this podcast.
[08:24.640 -> 08:26.160] That's okay.
[08:26.160 -> 08:29.680] He's a multiple world champion, right?
[08:30.960 -> 08:33.360] And he did pretty good up until this point.
[08:34.240 -> 08:40.640] But not being a rookie, being 28 years old and going up against Sonoda and given half
[08:40.640 -> 08:48.720] a year in Formula 1 and still not doing anything, I think that's completely the right choice to do something else on that seat from
[08:48.720 -> 08:50.220] Red Bull's point of view.
[08:50.380 -> 08:55.140] In regards to Ricciardo, don't forget next year, this team will have
[08:55.380 -> 08:57.580] Lauren Miekes from Ferrari.
[08:57.580 -> 09:01.500] It will have Peter Beyer from FIA leading the team.
[09:01.540 -> 09:04.860] They will move their headquarters closer to Milton Keynes.
[09:04.880 -> 09:10.720] leading the team, they will move their headquarters closer to Milton Keynes. Probably in the span of the next five years, move the entire team to the UK.
[09:10.720 -> 09:16.640] They would need a proper driver in that team to develop it,
[09:16.640 -> 09:19.640] since they are considering developing the team.
[09:19.640 -> 09:25.520] So people are probably thinking about Ricciardo in regards to the Red Bull seed,
[09:25.520 -> 09:30.400] but actually in the Al-Fatahri environment, there's some possibilities for him as well.
[09:31.280 -> 09:36.240] So other drivers have said in their opinion, it is incredibly harsh.
[09:36.240 -> 09:41.440] And I know we've alluded to on the show before about the lack of testing opportunities and the
[09:41.440 -> 09:52.960] lack of preparation that rookies can have these days compared to the days of infinite testing. But it does track with Red Bull's previous record of being
[09:52.960 -> 09:58.640] utterly, utterly ruthless with their junior drivers. And for me, there are still two drivers
[09:58.640 -> 10:11.520] that they absolutely drop the ball on not giving them an F1 shot with, that is Antonio Felix da Costa and Robin Frijns, but I could do a whole show on those two guys. In terms of replacing him with Ricciardo,
[10:12.240 -> 10:18.080] though, it's interesting because obviously Liam Lawson has been incredibly impressive
[10:18.880 -> 10:27.280] since leaving Formula 2, racing in Japan in the Super Formula Championship, and everybody was touting him for a potential F1 drive,
[10:27.280 -> 10:30.720] either in the middle of this year or next year.
[10:30.720 -> 10:35.400] Now it looks like Ricciardo seems to be the preferred option
[10:35.400 -> 10:38.280] and that makes sense for the team like Alfa Tauri.
[10:38.280 -> 10:41.460] They weren't going to get rid of an underperforming rookie
[10:41.460 -> 10:43.640] only to replace him with another rookie driver.
[10:43.640 -> 10:47.600] They needed a bit more of a known quantity in that seat.
[10:47.600 -> 10:50.320] The question for Ricciardo now is how is he going to fare
[10:50.320 -> 10:52.440] going sort of a step backwards?
[10:52.440 -> 10:55.160] Because we've talked about it on the show,
[10:55.160 -> 10:57.320] the AlphaTauri is one of the worst cars
[10:57.320 -> 10:58.600] on the grid this year.
[10:58.600 -> 11:01.920] And we know it's a big struggle for drivers
[11:01.920 -> 11:04.280] to take the step backwards on the grid.
[11:04.280 -> 11:06.080] It's why we maybe see drivers
[11:06.720 -> 11:11.520] not perform to the same level when they move from a top tier team to a midfield team. And in this
[11:11.520 -> 11:16.480] case, I would call it, you know, the towards the back of the grid team. So I'll be really
[11:16.480 -> 11:21.440] interested to see how he actually fares in that car compared to Sonoda. This is what you were
[11:21.440 -> 11:30.920] telling me earlier, Matt, you were talking about the brake performance. Yeah well this is an interesting thing because in fact one of the worst qualities
[11:30.920 -> 11:38.780] of the Alpha Tauri is its braking and if there's anything that our friend Ricky Danny is noted
[11:38.780 -> 11:47.920] for it's his late use of the brakes to rotate the chassis and make amazing up the inside
[11:47.920 -> 11:51.600] bombs on other drivers that are defenseless because they're braking far
[11:51.600 -> 11:56.200] sooner and if your brakes don't work very well then it's going to be kind of
[11:56.200 -> 12:03.480] hard for him to make progress in that car with that specific weakness. And what
[12:03.480 -> 12:07.080] was his major struggle at McLaren as well?
[12:07.080 -> 12:10.920] The brakes and trying to get on top of that car's handling.
[12:10.920 -> 12:16.560] So I almost worry we're in for just a repeat of what we've seen before with Daniel Ricciardo.
[12:16.560 -> 12:19.320] Or he could be the guy they need to fix the brakes.
[12:19.320 -> 12:26.240] I know I'm being a bit over positive here, but don't forget one giant element of Danny Ricciardo,
[12:26.240 -> 12:29.360] and that is not his nose, that is his PR value.
[12:29.360 -> 12:30.320] Yes, thank you.
[12:30.320 -> 12:37.120] I mean, I think actually guys from Liberty, people thinking in those terms have been in
[12:37.120 -> 12:40.880] contact with teams saying, listen, this guy sells the Netflix series.
[12:41.600 -> 12:48.480] And having a team like Al Fatari, who's... The team doesn't really hold any PR value
[12:48.480 -> 12:53.840] at this point. Giving a seat to Dan Arikiyato, getting him back into the Red Bull family,
[12:53.840 -> 12:57.440] it will change stuff. It will change Max Verstappen, it will change the Red Bull team as
[12:57.440 -> 13:04.160] well. Even him driving for Al Fatahri, is my point of view. I wonder what the timeline was, because
[13:07.200 -> 13:13.040] my point of view. I wonder what the timeline was because they took on Daniel Ricciardo as in this kind of media role, that had to be after they had hired Nick DeVries, right? That decision had to
[13:13.040 -> 13:19.600] have been made already, no? I think so. And you know what, DeVries was really flattered, wasn't
[13:19.600 -> 13:27.280] he, last year in the one race he did in that Williams which was performing quite well that weekend
[13:27.280 -> 13:30.960] and it was basically a sit tight in the slipstream. I don't want to you know
[13:33.200 -> 13:37.680] put a negative spin on the job he did that weekend. Go for it, it's what you want to do.
[13:38.400 -> 13:44.240] Everyone treated him like it was the second coming and it just I never really expected a
[13:47.440 -> 13:53.120] coming. And it just, I never really expected a balls to the wall performance from him when he got the permanent Formula One seat, which he turned down. He had a signed contract with Maserati in
[13:53.120 -> 14:00.000] Formula E to race this season. So he's lost out on that and potentially could go back to Formula E,
[14:00.000 -> 14:08.640] could do the World Endurance Championship now. So one of the things I want to do before we walk away from Nick, while admitting that,
[14:08.640 -> 14:14.880] you know, his performance was not all everybody hoped it would be, and in fact, it was more
[14:14.880 -> 14:20.160] along what it was likely going to be, because I think I would agree with Chris, his performance
[14:20.160 -> 14:26.320] in the Williams absolute at Monza absolutely flattered him to a very large degree. But the
[14:26.320 -> 14:32.200] reality of modern Formula One is that very few people are going to walk in as an absolute rookie,
[14:32.200 -> 14:38.960] and especially to a car with a different power unit, which the Alfa Tauri has, very different
[14:38.960 -> 14:43.960] to the Mercedes he would have been used to in the simulator, and immediately do a super great job.
[14:43.960 -> 14:46.160] He had some flashes of being
[14:46.160 -> 14:51.360] around Tsunoda's performance, but simply didn't have the experience. And I think even Marco said
[14:51.360 -> 14:56.240] that, like, if you really want to give someone a proper chance in Formula One these days with the
[14:56.240 -> 15:01.280] zero testing, it's like two or three years before you really know what they're up to.
[15:01.280 -> 15:05.440] That said, Red Bull was in the perfectly happy place of having a very
[15:05.440 -> 15:09.360] experienced driver, which we've seen work out well for Haas. They brought back Halkenberg,
[15:09.360 -> 15:15.120] they brought back Magnussen, and did much better. And they have Ricardo sitting there. So if DeVries
[15:15.120 -> 15:22.000] isn't for any reason making them happy, that's an easy swap for them to make. But I do want to make
[15:22.000 -> 15:33.200] one more point that I don't think anybody has really made directly before I let Chris jump all over me here, which is that Warner never wanted
[15:33.200 -> 15:38.560] him in the team. How much did that affect the team and how they dealt with Nick all along,
[15:38.560 -> 15:42.960] in terms of how the car was set up, in terms of how seriously they took his feedback, and so on,
[15:42.960 -> 15:45.440] and so forth? We had a war there,
[15:50.400 -> 15:57.520] and I think you could say either person might have won, but the real loser here is Nick, because I'm not convinced he had the 100% chance, because not everybody in management was on his
[15:57.520 -> 16:04.000] side from the get-go. And Red Bull has a modicum of young drivers that they have to select from.
[16:04.000 -> 16:08.800] Half the Formula 2 grid, I feel like, has a Red Bull livery on their car these days, and
[16:08.800 -> 16:12.920] they're all doing quite well at the moment as well.
[16:12.920 -> 16:18.280] And I think the most likely candidates, Liam Lawson, who we mentioned, and Ayumu Iwasa,
[16:18.280 -> 16:23.680] who's in the title hunt this year as well in Formula 2, but they seem to have this real
[16:23.680 -> 16:27.120] reluctance to actually hire from within
[16:27.120 -> 16:31.600] at the moment, which doesn't make a lot of sense to me when five or six years ago they were having
[16:31.600 -> 16:40.640] to hire back drivers they'd fired five, six years prior to fill their Toro Rosso seats that had
[16:40.640 -> 16:47.320] massive openings in them. I think this is going to be a bit of a false dawn for Daniel Ricciardo because a lot of
[16:47.320 -> 16:52.480] it at his age, it doesn't make sense. He's not going to come in, go to Red Bull and challenge
[16:52.480 -> 16:57.400] Verstappen in the time he has left. And he's not going to be able to hang around to wait
[16:57.400 -> 17:02.200] for Verstappen to retire. And that is now the dream of every Red Bull junior. Every
[17:02.200 -> 17:09.280] time they hear Verstappen go, oh, I just want a normal life. I just want to do other series. You can see all the Red Bull Juniors are rubbing
[17:09.280 -> 17:13.520] their hands because they're now fighting for that position for when Verstappen, I don't
[17:13.520 -> 17:18.760] know, four or five years time says, nah, I'm done. I'm going to be a scuba instructor now.
[17:18.760 -> 17:24.200] But the, so for Daniel Ricciardo to go into Alpha Tauri, I believe this is fully on the
[17:24.200 -> 17:27.120] back of his popularity. He is so popular,
[17:27.120 -> 17:32.240] he is so well loved. He did a great job for them doing all the media and the PR stuff.
[17:32.240 -> 17:37.120] And they just know from a TV point of view, he's gold. And Christian made a great point.
[17:37.120 -> 17:44.240] Liberty Media are putting pressure on Red Bull to try and hire a driver that will match Verstappen
[17:44.240 -> 17:46.960] in that car, so that they will always have two good drivers
[17:46.960 -> 17:52.480] even if one team is dominating. You know, you look at the Williams days and the Mercedes-Tobin hybrid era,
[17:52.640 -> 17:57.160] at least there was still competitiveness because you had Rosberg and Hamilton going at each other.
[17:57.160 -> 18:00.480] So Liberty Media are getting involved with who is in the teams.
[18:00.720 -> 18:03.200] So with Ricciardo sitting on the sidelines,
[18:03.760 -> 18:05.400] Liberty have to be thinking that is just literally money left on the teams. So with Ricciardo sitting on the sidelines, Liberty have to be thinking
[18:05.400 -> 18:10.900] that is just literally money left on the table. Like if you just swap in De Vries and Ricciardo,
[18:10.900 -> 18:17.900] that is much more cash, much more advertising. People will watch F1 now to watch Daniel Ricciardo
[18:17.900 -> 18:24.000] who might have been swinging either way otherwise. But it's a disastrous move from a career point
[18:24.000 -> 18:25.600] of view. He's going to get beaten by
[18:25.600 -> 18:31.840] Yuki Tsunoda. He's not going to do well in a car that's not performing well. And I think this is
[18:31.840 -> 18:36.560] probably going to peter out to the end of the year. So that's my prediction is, oh God, no,
[18:36.560 -> 18:40.160] let's, should we just save a replay? Let's just save a replay of me saying that. I've clicked
[18:40.160 -> 18:45.840] the button so you don't have to. But Daniel Ricciardo is one and done as far
[18:45.840 -> 18:47.600] as this contract goes.
[18:47.600 -> 18:48.600] Any argument?
[18:48.600 -> 18:49.600] Oh, Trump is.
[18:49.600 -> 18:50.600] Oh, and Christian.
[18:50.600 -> 18:58.440] Well, yeah, first off, certainly all the rumours are telling us that Yuki is more of a Honda
[18:58.440 -> 19:04.720] driver than a Red Bull driver and might very well be off to Aston for the next set of power
[19:04.720 -> 19:05.920] unit regulations.
[19:05.920 -> 19:12.120] So if I'm Red Bull, I'm not necessarily wanting Ricardo back out of a seat till I'm certain
[19:12.120 -> 19:17.600] I've got someone who can come in and be a good second driver at Red Bull and at Alpha
[19:17.600 -> 19:19.920] Tauri when he departs.
[19:19.920 -> 19:22.800] Plus Ricciardo is like half the age of Alonso.
[19:22.800 -> 19:27.500] And he is the only driver who's ever really challenged Verstappen, right?
[19:27.980 -> 19:32.700] Early on, I mean early on... No, no, no, Spanners, wait, this was the end point.
[19:33.560 -> 19:37.820] Okay, so Verstappen vs. Ricciardo, if I'm remembering rightly, this was Toro Rosso.
[19:39.600 -> 19:43.400] They had three seasons together, but Red Bull wasn't competitive at that time.
[19:43.400 -> 19:45.400] That's why I'm thinking midfield or so
[19:45.640 -> 19:49.320] But there was a big reliance by reliability issues in their first
[19:49.960 -> 19:54.120] Season together and I'm sure Verstappen got a bit unlucky with the reliability
[19:54.560 -> 19:58.420] Plus Verstappen was going through like a maverick phase, you know
[19:58.420 -> 20:03.320] Like a Hamilton 2011 type phase and you know, you know hitting it hitting everything but the safety car
[20:03.320 -> 20:09.640] So I'm not sure that was like a comparison you'd really want to lean on to predict the future, given
[20:09.640 -> 20:14.840] that in the subsequent seasons, you can't argue, no one can make the case that Verstappen
[20:14.840 -> 20:20.260] wasn't the faster, better driver out of that driver pairing. And I can't see how that,
[20:20.260 -> 20:25.200] how has that changed? Has that journey from through Renault, through McLaren, through PR,
[20:26.240 -> 20:30.480] and then pop back out to Red Bull against Verstappen, and now somehow he's going to
[20:30.480 -> 20:37.360] challenge Verstappen again? No. I'll give you that Verstappen wasn't like the sharp knife he is today
[20:38.080 -> 20:46.000] at that time. But the reason why Ricciardo left that team was because immediately he felt he wasn't backed by the
[20:46.000 -> 20:50.480] team. They were backing Verstappen as their former champion, or the coming champion.
[20:51.760 -> 20:56.960] I'm not saying he's at Verstappen level at all, but I'm saying he's got something. And he's got
[20:56.960 -> 21:02.800] something that is, well, I was the one saying, talking up the freeze a couple of months ago, so
[21:02.800 -> 21:05.200] don't take my word for anything, okay?
[21:05.200 -> 21:08.440] I like Daniel Ricciardo, just have to say. Do like Daniel Ricciardo. So if he was to
[21:08.440 -> 21:13.200] go in there and make AlphaTauri better and work together with Yuki Tsunoda and bring
[21:13.200 -> 21:17.120] them up the grid, then that would be two drivers doing better up the grid and I would be happy.
[21:17.120 -> 21:24.360] I just, I can't see someone dropping in 10 races in to now a formula that is notoriously
[21:24.360 -> 21:26.800] difficult for people to swap teams and hit the
[21:26.800 -> 21:32.320] ground running. I just, I'm not optimistic. Sorry Danny Rick fans, I look forward to being wrong.
[21:39.600 -> 21:46.800] Okay, I'll ask you a personal question, Matt. Calendars coming up to... yeah, it's been released 2024
[21:46.800 -> 21:54.640] calendar. I think something like 24 races on there. Yeah, 24 races. The season starts on the 29th of
[21:55.200 -> 22:01.360] February, my daughter's birthday, so I've already told her I'm going to miss it. And it ends, gulp,
[22:01.360 -> 22:06.200] on the 8th of December. So my personal question to you Matt is, how is the
[22:06.200 -> 22:10.520] state of your marriage and how do you think it's going to survive this calendar?
[22:10.520 -> 22:14.800] It's a good thing my wife can barely stand me because the time apart helps.
[22:14.800 -> 22:20.080] Same, same. Yeah, yeah. But obviously, on a more serious note, Chris, like this is a
[22:20.080 -> 22:25.760] heavy calendar. We've been predicting this for years, woof that is a big'un. There's going to
[22:25.760 -> 22:33.760] be one month of the year next year when you cannot watch a competitive live Formula One session and
[22:34.640 -> 22:39.440] I know I know I'm going to get bombarded with the comments saying oh you know Formula One third if
[22:39.440 -> 22:46.240] you didn't want more races I'm sorry there is a limit. There is an actual limit. It's 20 races. And I'm sorry,
[22:46.240 -> 22:51.280] but I am a firm believer in the fact that we should have quality over quantity. And you can
[22:51.280 -> 22:56.480] happily chuck away a third of these races, no one would miss them. So that you've got a limit to the
[22:56.480 -> 23:00.960] amount of F1 races you can watch. Well, you're not a real F1 fan then. Well, somebody, yeah,
[23:00.960 -> 23:04.160] exactly. Somebody, I don't know, you have to quantify it, otherwise people will get upset at
[23:04.160 -> 23:09.680] you. But I really don't understand. Well, well i mean i do understand from liberty's point of view
[23:09.680 -> 23:17.680] because more races means more money uh but there is a genuine uh petering out i think of your
[23:17.680 -> 23:25.880] enthusiasm for a sport when it's on this much and it doesn't always deliver the quality that it should do because it's on
[23:25.880 -> 23:31.440] terrible racetracks a lot of the time.
[23:31.440 -> 23:36.600] But to me, this is like the same situation I have with tacos where I'm like, of course,
[23:36.600 -> 23:40.800] two tacos is enough. And if someone then gives me two more tacos, I'll be like, Oh, come
[23:40.800 -> 23:44.220] on. Don't don't be silly, but you won't be able to hear those words because I'll already
[23:44.220 -> 23:46.040] be eating the third and fourth taco.
[23:46.040 -> 23:48.240] And I think, I'm not sure there's a limit
[23:48.240 -> 23:52.000] to the amount of tacos I will eat, even under protest.
[23:52.000 -> 23:54.200] I don't know, Christian, what would your limit be?
[23:54.200 -> 23:55.480] That's the best example ever.
[23:55.480 -> 23:56.840] I'm getting so hungry right now.
[23:56.840 -> 23:58.680] I have some very good sauces, by the way,
[23:58.680 -> 23:59.800] but that's for another podcast.
[23:59.800 -> 24:00.680] No, no, no, no.
[24:00.680 -> 24:03.840] No, look, you've never stopped F1
[24:03.840 -> 24:05.840] being the topic of this show stopping you before.
[24:05.840 -> 24:09.040] So what's your limit? Do you have a limit?
[24:09.760 -> 24:16.080] Well, I looked at the calendar. I think 24 is too much for guys like us who's watching
[24:16.080 -> 24:24.320] the practices and stuff like that. But if you look at it from maybe a broader audience point of view,
[24:24.320 -> 24:28.880] 24 is not too much if they only watch the races on Sundays or the rerun at night.
[24:28.880 -> 24:29.440] That's a good point.
[24:29.440 -> 24:36.440] I mean, for that kind of consumer, and I think Liberty is trying to hook into those people just a tiny bit.
[24:36.440 -> 24:48.640] The problem is though, when you can't get the calendar to work on a more logistical basis, then you will get everyone tired. I'm not just talking journalists and
[24:48.640 -> 24:52.480] drivers and teams. It's everyone. It's the entire system
[24:52.480 -> 24:57.760] will be like in red DEF CON 4. And I think that is I would
[24:57.760 -> 25:03.320] worry about that if I was them. But still, I mean, 24 it's, it's
[25:03.320 -> 25:05.480] every second week all year long.
[25:05.640 -> 25:07.160] Lots of triple-headers.
[25:07.240 -> 25:11.360] No, no, look, I think, like Chris says, he's got his limit for the races.
[25:11.600 -> 25:15.240] I don't think I do for the amount of weekends that F1 is on.
[25:15.320 -> 25:17.800] I think my family will disagree strongly with that.
[25:17.880 -> 25:21.880] The only time I reach my limit is when there's these sprint weekends.
[25:22.160 -> 25:26.160] So with the sprint races, I am finding myself now increasingly
[25:26.160 -> 25:31.360] just noping out of this the whole Saturday. So I'll watch the Friday practice and like on Sat... I know
[25:31.360 -> 25:35.200] we were doing the karting and stuff for the Austrian Grand Prix but like I just didn't care.
[25:35.200 -> 25:39.600] I didn't care what the result of the sprint race was, I didn't watch the qualifying for it and
[25:39.600 -> 25:44.640] I can have too much in a weekend so I can... and that's fine look I can just I can disregard
[25:44.640 -> 25:45.000] Saturday on a sprint weekend. It's actually quite handy, it's all one big chunk. But I don't think have too much in a weekend so I can, and that's fine, look I can just, I can disregard Saturday
[25:45.000 -> 25:49.880] on a sprint weekend, it's actually quite handy, it's all one big chunk, but I don't think
[25:49.880 -> 25:54.160] I've got a limit to the amount of races that I will enjoy in a year.
[25:54.160 -> 25:58.640] Thing is, I checked my phone at the start of this weekend and I was like, oh thank god
[25:58.640 -> 26:04.000] Formula One isn't on this weekend and I feel like that says something about how many dang
[26:04.000 -> 26:06.200] races we have at the moment.
[26:06.200 -> 26:11.620] I mean, they've done a nice job stepping in the right direction with their more regionalization
[26:11.620 -> 26:12.620] of the calendar.
[26:12.620 -> 26:16.600] There's a bit of Australasia at the start of the season as well.
[26:16.600 -> 26:19.920] And then you've got like the North and South American races are a bit together as well,
[26:19.920 -> 26:26.840] which is nice, but they're still banging on about putting more races onto the calendar and upping
[26:26.840 -> 26:32.320] it to like 28 or something like that and I just don't understand how that is at all feasible
[26:32.320 -> 26:37.920] when you throw in testing and the mandatory summer break and the post-season testing as
[26:37.920 -> 26:41.280] well and then they're just never gonna have a break.
[26:41.280 -> 26:45.000] Oh my goodness, yeah, testing's gonna start probably, you know, maybe late January.
[26:45.000 -> 26:47.000] Yeah, middle of February.
[26:47.000 -> 26:48.000] Matt?
[26:48.000 -> 26:53.200] Well, I'm sort of halfway tempted to tell you about the latest great sprint ideas they've
[26:53.200 -> 26:58.880] had, but the thing that interests me about our calendar is that in talking about it,
[26:58.880 -> 27:05.800] Zac Brown said that there's actually a demand from racetracks for like 30 Grand Prix a year. So I
[27:05.800 -> 27:10.880] understand from a business point of view Liberty is looking at the calculation we
[27:10.880 -> 27:15.160] can go to these places and get all these new viewers because we put an event
[27:15.160 -> 27:20.800] there but logistically 24 is the maximum but I think I really kind of tend to
[27:20.800 -> 27:28.200] agree with Chris once you start to get over 20 for the serious for the the person who's gonna sit down and watch everything when it happens, it
[27:28.200 -> 27:34.160] starts, the event of doing that starts to become more of a slog and less of an
[27:34.160 -> 27:37.960] enjoyment. If you know what I mean. It starts to lose a little bit of the
[27:37.960 -> 27:42.960] uniqueness once it's every other weekend all the time.
[27:42.960 -> 27:46.880] You can't be less or more unique, just saying.
[27:46.880 -> 27:47.720] Point of order.
[27:47.720 -> 27:49.640] I don't normally get to correct anyone on vocabulary,
[27:49.640 -> 27:51.440] so I just thought I'd go for it.
[27:51.440 -> 27:52.720] Christian.
[27:52.720 -> 27:55.820] If you look at, I'm always using football, soccer.
[27:55.820 -> 27:58.040] No, no worries, let's do it.
[27:58.040 -> 28:02.180] As like an example of how people react to patterns
[28:02.180 -> 28:05.840] in how you go about the sport and communicating it.
[28:10.800 -> 28:14.640] If you have like Champions League, then you have the, what's it called? The Euro Champions League, and then you have World Championship,
[28:14.640 -> 28:19.280] Euro, and then you have like the local league and a local league
[28:19.280 -> 28:20.360] foreign award, right?
[28:20.880 -> 28:30.240] Everyone is always trying to make new series like the Nordic Cup, whatever. People just can't get it. I mean, it's too much already. You want to go to Champions
[28:30.240 -> 28:36.160] League or you go to the Euro. Then you want to win your local and you want to win the award,
[28:36.160 -> 28:40.400] the Pokal or whatever you call it, the Cup. The knockout. Yeah.
[28:40.960 -> 28:47.440] Yeah. You can't watch all the games anyway. You're not going to watch all the games in the league. You're going to pick some games you're going to watch,
[28:47.440 -> 28:51.040] and then you're going to watch the Champions League, of course. If you look at Formula
[28:51.040 -> 28:56.240] One, I know Formula One is Champions League all along, but you can't have 24 Champions League
[28:56.240 -> 29:07.920] finals. So we need some group matches, group races, stuff like that. I think that is the way Formula One is thinking, at least from a communication
[29:07.920 -> 29:12.880] point of view, that you have like these maybe 10, 15 races a year that is really
[29:12.880 -> 29:13.280] important.
[29:13.280 -> 29:18.280] Then you have like the other bits, but this will definitely be an enemy to the
[29:18.280 -> 29:19.000] sprint race.
[29:19.000 -> 29:19.360] I think.
[29:19.840 -> 29:21.720] I love Star Wars.
[29:22.160 -> 29:22.440] Right.
[29:22.800 -> 29:25.680] Again, stick with me on this.
[29:25.680 -> 29:26.680] Stick with me on this.
[29:26.680 -> 29:27.680] Matt.
[29:27.680 -> 29:28.680] Too late.
[29:28.680 -> 29:29.680] Die.
[29:29.680 -> 29:30.680] No, no, no, no.
[29:30.680 -> 29:31.680] Blast me.
[29:31.680 -> 29:32.680] No, no, come on.
[29:32.680 -> 29:33.680] Right.
[29:33.680 -> 29:36.200] It's one of my absolute favorite franchises in the entire world, if not my absolute favorite.
[29:36.200 -> 29:37.200] Okay.
[29:37.200 -> 29:44.480] But when Disney made five Star Wars movies in five years, even I got Star Wars'd out.
[29:44.480 -> 29:45.480] Okay. Because you had mediocre movies like Solo, which are like a street track in Formula One. five years, even I got Star Wars'd out, okay?
[29:45.480 -> 29:49.640] Because you had mediocre movies like Solo, which are like a street track in Formula One.
[29:49.640 -> 29:51.160] You know, no one's asking for it!
[29:51.160 -> 29:53.120] ALICE Do you know what, Matt?
[29:53.120 -> 29:54.120] Chris, Futurama.
[29:54.120 -> 29:55.120] Same.
[29:55.120 -> 29:56.120] But first six seasons, Mint.
[29:56.120 -> 29:57.120] Then...
[29:57.120 -> 29:58.120] MATT Simpsons.
[29:58.120 -> 29:59.120] ALICE Simpsons!
[29:59.120 -> 30:00.120] There you go.
[30:00.120 -> 30:01.120] Matt?
[30:01.120 -> 30:06.680] MATT Well, I think I have a convenient solution to this from our past, which is F1 used to run
[30:06.680 -> 30:15.360] non-championship races. And imagine if those extra four races had Formula One teams, Formula One cars,
[30:15.360 -> 30:20.240] but not necessarily the exact same Formula One drivers, and they didn't have championship points.
[30:20.240 -> 30:30.500] So you could run your junior drivers in real Formula One events, for example. Or you can import someone from IndyCar or someone from WEC to be one of your drivers.
[30:30.500 -> 30:38.400] I think that's a potential way to go, where F1 as a sport can go to more tracks per year,
[30:38.400 -> 30:44.600] but the championship that we follow stays contained within a manageable bundle.
[30:44.600 -> 30:45.360] Okay, well, Matt, what you've
[30:45.360 -> 30:50.080] managed to do there is you've managed to actually move me away from my point more towards Chris's
[30:50.080 -> 30:54.880] side with that argument. Like, if you started doing any of what you just suggested, F1 would
[30:54.880 -> 31:00.320] be terrible. I would not want that. And then I would be upset and I would not, like, tune into
[31:00.320 -> 31:09.200] all those races. The sprints, right, we all hate them because they're pointless. You want to add more pointlessness to Formula One. If they're non-championship, the whole
[31:09.200 -> 31:14.180] point is you can tune out and you don't miss anything. But for the new markets, they still
[31:14.180 -> 31:19.760] get Formula One. It solves both problems without aggravating either person. How the team's
[31:19.760 -> 31:21.960] going to pay for that. I mean, they already hate the fact that they have sprint races.
[31:21.960 -> 31:26.000] They would get a separate budget for it and they would get data from it, which they would love.
[31:26.000 -> 31:28.800] What separate budget? Where is it coming from?
[31:28.800 -> 31:31.920] Christian, you yell now, Christian.
[31:31.920 -> 31:33.040] Sponsors.
[31:33.040 -> 31:38.160] Everything budget related is going to change dramatically. The teams are going to be 10
[31:38.160 -> 31:42.720] times worth the price they were two years ago. They're going to make lots of more money. They
[31:42.720 -> 31:45.840] can't spend any money. Everything is changing these days.
[31:45.840 -> 31:50.560] So I don't think you can use economics in regards to this because everyone's
[31:50.560 -> 31:54.320] going to make more money and everyone's going to be interested in buying what
[31:54.320 -> 31:54.820] they got.
[31:55.240 -> 31:59.600] What I think is very important is what you talked about, Chris, is rearing at
[31:59.600 -> 32:04.120] it because Star Wars and Formula One is actually quite similar in some points.
[32:04.560 -> 32:06.080] There's some magic to it.
[32:06.080 -> 32:08.120] Don't do that with the headspin.
[32:08.120 -> 32:09.120] I said that.
[32:09.120 -> 32:10.120] There is.
[32:10.120 -> 32:15.600] I mean, the first time I saw Boba Fett in Star Wars, for instance, I was like, he made
[32:15.600 -> 32:17.240] my life, basically.
[32:17.240 -> 32:22.040] And every time I've seen Boba Fett since, it's affected me emotionally.
[32:22.040 -> 32:29.280] Then they made the Boba Fett series, and they just completely ruined it all. He was made into a plastic figure. It was all about
[32:29.280 -> 32:34.800] the clicks. Just ruined it. And Formula One has this sense of VIP-ness to it,
[32:34.800 -> 32:42.080] this sense of NASA engineering, gold-plated exhaust, whatever. That glamour
[32:42.080 -> 32:45.480] could very easily fall away. And that is what they have to
[32:45.480 -> 32:48.600] look out for, I think, Liberty. That is the goldmine for them.
[32:48.600 -> 32:53.640] I love that you're all using Star Wars references thinking that that's good
[32:53.640 -> 33:00.200] podcasting, but no. I'm gonna put it into your language. Okay, please. Red Dwarf.
[33:00.200 -> 33:05.800] They've made too much Red Dwarf. No, you're wrong. I don't know what that means.
[33:05.800 -> 33:08.600] We could have a fight.
[33:08.600 -> 33:09.600] You're wrong.
[33:09.600 -> 33:12.800] Just sit there in your wrongness and be wrong.
[33:12.800 -> 33:15.600] Okay, that's what I want from you right now, Chris Stevens.
[33:15.600 -> 33:20.600] Okay, look, I do feel, I have to say, I do feel a bit sorry for some, you know, Formula 1 staff
[33:20.600 -> 33:25.600] who've been, you know, doing this a decade or so, and they're kind of sold on this F1 life that it's
[33:26.320 -> 33:31.760] 16 to 18 races. I know that's going back a fair bit. And then now their lives are probably in
[33:31.760 -> 33:36.800] different stages, you know, maybe there's more children, maybe they're married and more settled
[33:36.800 -> 33:42.640] and they look at that calendar and they go, well, I can't actually do my dream job anymore. I don't
[33:42.640 -> 33:45.080] think I can manage this, You know, and they go
[33:45.080 -> 33:48.080] home to their partners and they look at that together and they say, what is our
[33:48.080 -> 33:53.280] life looking like with this calendar? Obviously the new people that
[33:53.280 -> 33:57.400] come in now to Formula One, this is going to be their reality, Chris. Anyone who
[33:57.400 -> 34:01.120] wants to be an F1 journo, cover Formula One, be in an F1 team, be an F1 driver,
[34:01.120 -> 34:05.840] this is the reality now. They can't complain. But I do feel a little sorry
[34:05.840 -> 34:11.360] for, you know, the guys sitting in the teams now going, I've got choices to make. Yeah, I think
[34:11.360 -> 34:17.360] we're already seeing it with media teams are on rotation now per publication. Yeah. Or we've had
[34:17.360 -> 34:22.160] publications just straight up not send journalists to races because they simply can't afford it
[34:22.160 -> 34:25.960] anymore. And I think this is all going to come to a head in Las Vegas
[34:25.960 -> 34:28.440] because from what I've been told,
[34:28.440 -> 34:32.560] there is going to be so few journalists actually
[34:32.560 -> 34:34.040] on the ground in Las Vegas
[34:34.040 -> 34:38.240] because they simply cannot afford to stay there.
[34:38.240 -> 34:40.440] There's going to be a very angry Joe Sayward
[34:41.280 -> 34:42.920] to block that one.
[34:42.920 -> 34:47.040] So I haven't spoken to Joe specifically about Las Vegas, I assume he's going,
[34:47.040 -> 34:51.520] but over the course of this season, you know, I've spoken to a lot of journalists and I speak to a
[34:51.520 -> 34:57.280] lot of people who do the kind of thing we do. And so, you know, overall in the F1 landscape,
[34:57.840 -> 35:06.680] every race is being diluted by having more races. I think each race is worth less, sorry, to the people who are covering it,
[35:06.680 -> 35:08.440] and it's getting harder to cover it.
[35:08.440 -> 35:10.560] We're seeing a lot of podfade, woohoo.
[35:10.560 -> 35:15.420] We're seeing journalists and media struggling to cover it
[35:15.420 -> 35:18.220] because the maths isn't gonna add up.
[35:18.220 -> 35:20.320] And what I'm hearing from other content creators,
[35:20.320 -> 35:22.280] because I was a little bit disappointed
[35:22.280 -> 35:23.740] that our viewing figures and stuff
[35:23.740 -> 35:27.140] and our download figures hadn't risen that much this year,
[35:27.140 -> 35:29.500] but nearly every other content creator I've spoken to
[35:29.500 -> 35:32.860] has said they've seen a massive drop in the viewing,
[35:32.860 -> 35:33.980] like per race.
[35:33.980 -> 35:35.860] So they might have, over the course of the year,
[35:35.860 -> 35:40.340] the same amount of individuals listening or watching,
[35:40.340 -> 35:42.220] but I think people are picking and choosing
[35:42.220 -> 35:44.240] which events they now tune into.
[35:44.240 -> 35:45.920] So after those conversations,
[35:45.920 -> 35:48.960] you know, I feel grateful that our listeners
[35:48.960 -> 35:51.980] are a bunch of F1 nerds who are addicted
[35:51.980 -> 35:53.920] to Formula One chronically like we are,
[35:53.920 -> 35:56.000] which is why we probably haven't seen,
[35:56.000 -> 35:57.280] you know, any kind of drop off.
[35:57.280 -> 35:59.600] But I think the effect is real, Chris, out there,
[35:59.600 -> 36:02.600] and outlets and creators are gonna struggle
[36:02.600 -> 36:05.440] making something of following F1.
[36:05.440 -> 36:10.120] 100% I completely agree. I don't know how you do it because you and Matt are the two
[36:10.120 -> 36:16.200] people on this show who show in week in week out and the rest of us are just on rotation.
[36:16.200 -> 36:18.200] We do it when we can be bothered to jump in.
[36:18.200 -> 36:22.720] Chris, I will tell you how we do it and we do it because we have the kind support of
[36:22.720 -> 36:30.280] our patrons who support us by going to patreon.com forward slash missed apex. Genuinely, literally, we would not be
[36:30.280 -> 36:35.520] able to do what Chris had described. If we don't have patron support, patron support
[36:35.520 -> 36:40.160] clears a lot of pathways. So thank you very much. And we've had a big uptick as well.
[36:40.160 -> 36:43.960] And some new people enjoying our patron slack group. So patreon.com forward slash missed
[36:43.960 -> 36:45.040] apex. And if you're subscribing on Patreon, then and some new people enjoying our Patreon Slack group. So patreon.com forward slash missed Apex.
[36:45.040 -> 36:47.520] And if you're subscribing on Patreon,
[36:47.520 -> 36:49.320] then also subscribe on YouTube.
[36:49.320 -> 36:51.040] Oh, like and subscribe.
[36:51.040 -> 36:52.360] Yep, like and subscribe.
[36:52.360 -> 36:56.280] And at missed Apex F1 on Twitter and TikTok as well.
[36:56.280 -> 36:57.200] You won't regret it.
[36:57.200 -> 36:59.040] We do good stuff on there.
[36:59.040 -> 37:02.720] And you know, the patrons, they don't break my heart.
[37:02.720 -> 37:07.680] But what does break my heart, Spanners, is we're talking about all these extra races.
[37:07.880 -> 37:10.880] And then they say, how about we do a street race in Madrid?
[37:11.080 -> 37:14.320] How about we do a street race in Nice as well?
[37:14.520 -> 37:16.160] We just fixed Barcelona.
[37:16.360 -> 37:19.360] Why are we going to a street track in Madrid?
[37:19.560 -> 37:21.640] It's rough. Christian.
[37:21.840 -> 37:23.600] I just wanted to thank the patrons.
[37:23.800 -> 37:27.080] So I'm going to post a picture. Last time I posted
[37:27.080 -> 37:31.880] like a go-kart thing. This time I'm gonna post like this is a leak. This is the new
[37:31.880 -> 37:37.280] merchandise from Mercedes, the new race shoes. I'm gonna post it now. You're leaking? Is this an
[37:37.280 -> 37:43.360] exclusive? Yeah, it's an exclusive. Maybe it's only for Hamilton. Hamilton fans. And if you want to see
[37:43.360 -> 37:46.480] that leak then you've got to subscribe to on Patreon to get into our Slack group.
[37:46.480 -> 37:47.680] There we go.
[37:47.680 -> 37:52.080] Thank you very much, guys. It's all there. That looks disgusting. Okay, so let's look at the calendar itself.
[37:52.080 -> 37:55.920] Let me just add one thing, Spanner, sorry, in regards to the many races.
[37:55.920 -> 38:01.120] Don't forget that Formula One is the races, and then it's everything that happens between the races.
[38:01.120 -> 38:08.160] And things like this, this podcast, every, basically journalism as well, all the magazines and stuff like that, that is between the
[38:08.160 -> 38:13.600] races, that is when the public and our opinions and what we talk about, and
[38:13.600 -> 38:15.440] that is where the sport gains traction.
[38:15.920 -> 38:19.160] It could be a great race, whatever happens, but what happens between the
[38:19.160 -> 38:22.040] races is your public perception.
[38:22.360 -> 38:23.840] And that is what is worth money.
[38:24.120 -> 38:25.440] And if you have races all the time, there is going to be no public perception. And that is what is worth money. And if you have races all the time,
[38:25.440 -> 38:29.360] there is going to be no public perception, no podcast, because we don't have time,
[38:29.360 -> 38:33.120] we can't make money off it because you take all the money to Las Vegas, yada, yada, yada.
[38:34.000 -> 38:38.240] Christian, are you feeling okay? That was on topic and relevant. All right, cool. Well, look,
[38:38.240 -> 38:43.360] one of the biggest complaints I've had about the calendar has been the start of the season
[38:43.360 -> 38:45.280] for the last two seasons has been so
[38:46.000 -> 38:50.400] street circuit heavy and then also a lot of tracks where you just can't race and you just can't
[38:50.400 -> 38:55.120] overtake. From that point of view I think the calendar you know is a is a big improvement.
[38:55.120 -> 39:01.200] We've got a couple of Saturday races to start with in Bahrain and Saudi. So Saudi, the Saudi
[39:01.200 -> 39:06.080] Arabia race in Jeddah is is on a Saturday because Ramadan starts on
[39:06.080 -> 39:09.480] the... is predicted to start on the 10th of March.
[39:09.480 -> 39:11.920] So they're doing it on a Saturday so they're clear of that.
[39:11.920 -> 39:15.680] And therefore Bahrain the week before, we think has to be on a Saturday as well because
[39:15.680 -> 39:18.000] they need seven days between Grand Prix's.
[39:18.000 -> 39:21.240] So I'm trying to research if that's a real regulation or just something.
[39:21.240 -> 39:23.920] But that's the reason why they're on a Saturday.
[39:23.920 -> 39:29.360] But Bahrain is a great track to kick the season off with, so that's good. No complaints there.
[39:29.760 -> 39:32.240] Saudi Arabia has been mixed.
[39:32.240 -> 39:39.800] I mean, it's exciting from a driver point of view and from an on-board point of view, if not outright terrifying.
[39:39.800 -> 39:44.200] And then you've got Australia, which is a favorite and they've made a couple of changes there.
[39:44.200 -> 39:45.760] But it is, Chris, you're shaking your head,
[39:45.760 -> 39:48.600] but I promise you that maybe you have to be more like
[39:48.600 -> 39:51.120] old man, but it's an old man favourite.
[39:51.120 -> 39:53.440] No, no, I know it is because it's been on the calendar
[39:53.440 -> 39:54.840] since I've been watching Formula One as well.
[39:54.840 -> 39:57.480] It used to be the season opener when I was watching it,
[39:57.480 -> 40:02.200] but I do just think it doesn't deliver
[40:02.200 -> 40:06.800] what we need it to anymore in terms of exciting racing.
[40:06.800 -> 40:12.640] No, so if you've got it mixed in with Bahrain, Saudi Arabia won't be a bad start to the season,
[40:12.640 -> 40:18.000] I don't think. And then Australia, and then we're back to Suzuka, and that's going to be fantastic,
[40:18.000 -> 40:22.080] and back to China. So did you just... at Suzuka?
[40:22.080 -> 40:22.560] No.
[40:22.560 -> 40:25.600] Oh, thank goodness for that. I love it.
[40:25.600 -> 40:26.600] It's one of the best tracks.
[40:26.600 -> 40:28.280] I guess, yes, it is a bit tight.
[40:28.280 -> 40:33.760] There's a bit too much time on throttle, but it's definitely a Formula One classic.
[40:33.760 -> 40:37.600] And then the Shanghai track is probably one of the best tracks on the calendar.
[40:37.600 -> 40:39.160] I agree with you.
[40:39.160 -> 40:43.400] So we've got all those five races before we have to endure Miami.
[40:43.400 -> 40:44.400] Sorry, Miami.
[40:44.400 -> 40:45.360] But it's not good, is it?
[40:45.360 -> 40:46.360] No, you're right.
[40:46.360 -> 40:47.360] It's just a slog, isn't it?
[40:47.360 -> 40:48.360] Sorry, Matt.
[40:48.360 -> 40:49.360] Sorry, I know.
[40:49.360 -> 40:50.360] Murica.
[40:50.360 -> 40:57.920] No, I was going to say the good news is there's at least a 50% chance the entire city will
[40:57.920 -> 41:01.880] be underwater by the time we get there, so it might be a problem that solves itself.
[41:01.880 -> 41:04.880] Okay, no, well I wish the Miamians well.
[41:04.880 -> 41:05.660] That feels mean I
[41:07.080 -> 41:09.660] It's just reality like the city floods and all
[41:10.640 -> 41:14.160] Okay, I thought you were just like wishing a specific harm on the people of Miami
[41:14.160 -> 41:16.480] No, no, no, no, no the opposite of that
[41:16.480 -> 41:20.440] But the reality is it floods an awful lot and an awful lot of water
[41:20.960 -> 41:25.840] But look the rest of the season honestly like that's that's a much better start. So the five races
[41:25.840 -> 41:29.800] we've mentioned, you know Miami, it's got its it's got its perks, it's got its quirks,
[41:29.800 -> 41:35.080] it's got its own appeal, racing isn't specifically one of them, but you know Imola's good,
[41:35.080 -> 41:37.760] it'll probably rain there in May, and then
[41:38.340 -> 41:50.040] Monaco, Montreal, Barcelona, Austria, Silverstone, that is a much better overall start to the calendar. And I'm hoping that that's because they've listened to the negative feedback they've got at the
[41:50.040 -> 41:55.260] beginning of the last couple of seasons and how magically that starts to peter away once
[41:55.260 -> 41:59.960] you go into real race tracks. But anything else, Chris, stand out for you on this new
[41:59.960 -> 42:09.280] 2024 calendar? The fact that Abu Dhabi still concludes the season is somewhat disappointing.
[42:09.280 -> 42:16.240] I think it's because it's not it's a really nice venue isn't it it's really it looks fantastic on
[42:16.240 -> 42:27.840] people you go love it yeah but it's not the proper place to finish it if... If you want it going down to the wire, like we had in 2021, for example,
[42:27.840 -> 42:33.520] and let's be honest, 90% of the way through that race, it was pretty much a foregone conclusion
[42:34.080 -> 42:38.880] of who was going to win the championships. It wasn't that nail-biting finale that we wanted it
[42:38.880 -> 42:43.520] to be, like you often get at Interlagos, which to me is always the right and proper
[42:44.160 -> 42:45.680] championship finale location.
[42:45.680 -> 42:49.600] Oh, actually, looking at it, I don't want to, I was trying to be all positive about the start,
[42:49.600 -> 42:54.800] but actually looking at the end, that's a terrible finish to the F1 season. So we've got Las Vegas,
[42:54.800 -> 43:00.560] which is guilty until proven innocent in terms of whether or not that's going to be a good race.
[43:00.560 -> 43:04.720] So you've got to say street, city track, temporary circuit, probably not going to be that good. It's
[43:04.720 -> 43:07.380] probably going to be, you know, a lot like Miami.
[43:07.520 -> 43:14.440] We might actually lose Singapore because there's been some some drama in for the Singapore event owner is under charges.
[43:14.640 -> 43:17.560] So yeah, there's there has been a bit of corruption
[43:19.520 -> 43:21.240] apparently in the
[43:21.240 -> 43:26.640] upstairs of the people who run the event, but I'm told that it won't actually
[43:27.520 -> 43:33.520] affect the Grand Prix itself, it shouldn't do. So we do have Austin, that's always a good one.
[43:33.520 -> 43:37.760] Oh yeah, no, no, no, yeah. So Cota and Recta. If you said to me, the end of this season now,
[43:37.760 -> 43:44.240] looking at that calendar, the end of the season could be Italy, Azerbaijan, Baku, Singapore,
[43:48.380 -> 43:52.240] could be Italy, Azerbaijan, Baku, Singapore, Singapore the least bad out-and-out street track, Circuit of the Americas I think one of the best tracks on the calendar at the moment,
[43:52.240 -> 43:58.840] Mexico, but then finishing Interlagos in Brazil, that'd be a stonking end to the season. But Las
[43:58.840 -> 44:06.080] Vegas, Qatar and Abu Dhabi ending the season could be a bit of a damp one.
[44:06.080 -> 44:11.200] I'll tell you the thing about Singapore as well, is that they're not still due to have that
[44:11.200 -> 44:16.320] bit of track cut out and it's just a straight while they redevelop that stadium.
[44:18.080 -> 44:22.560] You know the plinky-plonky final sector where they go right, left, right, left, right, left,
[44:22.560 -> 44:30.120] all the time? That's just turning into a straight because they are building a stadium on the waterfront.
[44:30.120 -> 44:33.780] And so that bit of track is shut, basically.
[44:33.780 -> 44:38.680] So they're sort of going around it by just creating a straight between that last chicane
[44:38.680 -> 44:44.080] before the last two right-handers, and I think it's the right-hander.
[44:44.080 -> 44:45.280] After you go over the bridge, you've
[44:45.280 -> 44:48.800] got a big braking zone into a sort of hairpin, and then it's just straight all the way down
[44:48.800 -> 44:53.040] to that chicane, which I think is gonna be for this year and next year.
[44:53.040 -> 44:54.120] ALICE Okay. So that'll make it quite-
[44:54.120 -> 44:55.240] SEAN While they build that stadium?
[44:55.240 -> 44:57.520] ALICE That'll make it quite Baku-ish, then.
[44:57.520 -> 45:02.720] SEAN Er, not to the same extent. It'll be a bit
[45:02.720 -> 45:06.960] lower speed, but it should liven things up a little bit because,
[45:06.960 -> 45:13.360] let's be honest, that last sector is a bit meh. Earlier on, there was a bid for Formula 1 from
[45:13.360 -> 45:20.320] Saudi Arabia, and I get it, they have a lot of money in the fund, but if you look at the calendar,
[45:20.880 -> 45:28.840] I understand Bahrain in regards to the testing, but then two Middle East races
[45:28.840 -> 45:34.240] to start the calendar and two Middle East races to stop the calendar, I just find that
[45:34.240 -> 45:35.240] quite peculiar.
[45:35.240 -> 45:36.240] It's more than coincidental.
[45:36.240 -> 45:39.320] But the weather thing though, that is the argument, right?
[45:39.320 -> 45:41.480] I don't think it's peculiar, Matt, is it?
[45:41.480 -> 45:43.400] They're going to buy it, so.
[45:43.400 -> 45:46.360] It's almost like Formula One is a business and all it really cares about
[45:46.360 -> 45:48.160] is making money and we're just lucky to
[45:48.160 -> 45:49.960] have the sport that's attached to it.
[45:49.960 -> 45:53.240] But if not the Saudis, it'll be the
[45:53.240 -> 45:55.960] Qataris, won't it, that buy it, I think, inevitably.
[45:55.960 -> 45:57.880] Yeah, so I think, obviously, Liberty Media
[45:57.880 -> 45:59.400] was saying, no, no, it's not for sale,
[45:59.400 -> 46:00.880] we've got this long-term future, but
[46:00.880 -> 46:03.320] everything they're doing, to me, looks
[46:03.320 -> 46:06.640] like, well, milking the cow might be a bit harsh, but're doing to me looks like, well milking the cow might
[46:06.640 -> 46:10.840] be a bit harsh, but I think that it looks like now it's the extraction phase. This is
[46:10.840 -> 46:15.160] the harvest now. Liberty Media have grown, they've sown the seeds, they're harvesting
[46:15.160 -> 46:19.920] now and then I think it will end up, like Christine is saying, there's a lot of clues
[46:19.920 -> 46:25.440] on the calendar as to where Formula One ownership will end up. If you also look at the calendar
[46:25.440 -> 46:31.480] being structured around Ramadan as well, I expect that to go further. So there's a break
[46:31.480 -> 46:35.520] between Saudi Arabia and Australia. So Australia and Japan are just at the end of Ramadan,
[46:35.520 -> 46:41.120] but I would not be surprised if we end up seeing a month-long gap in future seasons,
[46:41.120 -> 46:48.280] much like obviously Christmas. We don't race over Christmas. But if that's going to be the way forward, rather than start the season, then have a month break,
[46:48.280 -> 46:53.280] just start the season in April, go to the southern hemisphere during December and
[46:53.280 -> 46:57.720] then finish the season off in January. As far as I know the race is going to be on
[46:57.720 -> 47:02.400] a Saturday in Saudi Arabia. Yes, it will be. So let's just break all the
[47:02.400 -> 47:06.200] norms because someone paid for it to be there at that weekend.
[47:06.200 -> 47:07.200] The end.
[47:07.200 -> 47:08.200] Yeah.
[47:08.200 -> 47:10.360] So I mean, look, golf lost, didn't it?
[47:10.360 -> 47:13.240] And maybe F1 will go the same way.
[47:13.240 -> 47:14.240] Right.
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[48:19.480 -> 48:20.400] What should we do, Matt?
[48:20.400 -> 48:22.720] Shall we argue about things
[48:22.720 -> 48:26.560] or shall we talk about Dominicicali and the teams? Why
[48:26.560 -> 48:31.720] don't you take us away on Domenicali's refusal to entertain new teams on the grid, because
[48:31.720 -> 48:35.520] I saw you and spotted you and Christian having a back and forth over that earlier.
[48:35.520 -> 48:48.800] Yeah, well, this is the thing. We know that the FIA is about to approve two new entries to the sport, likely to be the HITAC entry and the Andretti entry.
[48:49.360 -> 48:55.200] But there's word coming out that just because the FIA approves them doesn't mean that FOM is going
[48:55.200 -> 49:01.440] to actually let them on the grid. And Domenic Colli, ever the diplomat, is like, well, they're
[49:01.440 -> 49:10.320] going to have to show they're bringing something super special for us to let them on the grid. And to me, this is interesting because it seems like he's forgotten
[49:10.320 -> 49:15.920] that it's the FIA that own the sport. And it's just the FOM currently in the form of Liberty
[49:15.920 -> 49:21.760] that are renting it. And yes, I did steal that from someone. Thank you. And I'm just staggered.
[49:21.760 -> 49:26.080] How could you not want more teams on the grid? We have drivers without
[49:26.080 -> 49:31.120] rides. And how is it going to be bad for AlphaTower to have someone to actually fight with for a
[49:31.120 -> 49:35.760] change? So I don't necessarily think teams need to bring something amazing and special and
[49:35.760 -> 49:43.120] spectacular to the... because why? Funding! Right? Yes, it's money! That's all you need! Show me you
[49:43.120 -> 49:45.760] have the money to run a team and then we're good.
[49:45.760 -> 49:52.240] What does HASS actually bring to the table apart from being an American team?
[49:52.240 -> 49:55.360] What does Alpha Tauri actually bring to the table apart from...
[49:55.360 -> 49:58.520] In terms of being something special, what does Williams bring to the table in terms
[49:58.520 -> 49:59.520] of being something special?
[49:59.520 -> 50:00.520] Oh, that hurts.
[50:00.520 -> 50:01.520] That hurts.
[50:01.520 -> 50:06.000] Yeah, I know, sorry, but they're not these spectacular entities, are they?
[50:06.000 -> 50:11.640] They're just teams and I absolutely, we need more teams on the grid because we're constantly talking about amazing drivers
[50:11.640 -> 50:16.080] who don't get a chance to have a seat in Formula One because there just aren't enough seats.
[50:16.080 -> 50:22.680] I think, I think Matt, if that was to be wrong, and I think your thing, in a fair world
[50:23.080 -> 50:26.360] they would only need to be better than Haas and Williams
[50:26.360 -> 50:29.180] to deserve a place in F1.
[50:29.180 -> 50:32.820] The thing now is, I think this is the closed shop franchise
[50:32.820 -> 50:35.000] F1 that we were talking about years ago.
[50:35.000 -> 50:38.000] And I think it was obvious when Liberty Media came in
[50:38.000 -> 50:40.720] that that's the way they were going to go.
[50:40.720 -> 50:45.600] And now Haas, it does not matter if they finish 10th, really.
[50:45.600 -> 50:50.600] Are they going to pour resources and blood, sweat and tears to go 9th?
[50:50.600 -> 50:55.200] To get that extra bit of that extra little bit of championship points?
[50:55.200 -> 50:58.000] Why are Haas in F1 now and not selling?
[50:58.000 -> 50:59.700] Because Andretti said no one is selling.
[50:59.700 -> 51:01.300] Why is no one selling?
[51:01.300 -> 51:03.300] Because it's a guaranteed profit every month.
[51:03.300 -> 51:05.600] So because they know there's no risk,
[51:06.000 -> 51:12.040] they can just sit there. And I think that that could be the death of like competition in the midfield because Williams, Haas,
[51:12.440 -> 51:15.920] Alpha Tauri can just sit there and it does not matter if they are consistently
[51:16.320 -> 51:20.400] eighth, ninth, and tenth every year, man. And that's what you get in your American sports.
[51:20.600 -> 51:46.800] Well, we do to a point, but then when they're worth enough extra money, they have this thing called, get ready, expansion. And they add new teams to the league in different new cities so that more people become interested. And I think really the game was given away with this quote where Domenic Colli says, it's not the money as we have said. Well, no, it is the money because
[51:46.800 -> 51:52.480] remember the fee that the teams have to pay to get on the grid now? It's like $200 million. Well,
[51:52.480 -> 51:57.920] pretty much the existing teams want to add a zero to that because the TV numbers have gone up so
[51:57.920 -> 52:02.560] much and because the general public interest has gone up so much. What they're trying to do is
[52:02.560 -> 52:05.480] close the door they walked through and
[52:05.480 -> 52:10.840] not let any new teams under the grid until they can add another zero to that number and
[52:10.840 -> 52:17.080] protect their shareholder wealth and do their fiduciary duty, which is all a bunch of hoo-ha,
[52:17.080 -> 52:21.380] they say, when they don't want to have to actually do their jobs and be competitive
[52:21.380 -> 52:32.680] to make money as Formula One teams. So being the 10th team in 1995 is the same as being the 10th team in 2023.
[52:32.680 -> 52:39.080] But the difference is these days there's sometimes less than a second between number one and
[52:39.080 -> 52:40.380] number 10.
[52:40.380 -> 52:43.660] So I think everything has changed dramatically.
[52:43.660 -> 52:47.920] It's a completely different sport from a competitive point of view.
[52:47.920 -> 52:49.880] Everyone is so close together.
[52:49.880 -> 52:53.680] I don't think a little bit of extra competition.
[52:53.680 -> 52:58.520] And as someone saying, we have enough of the people not winning.
[52:59.920 -> 53:03.600] We need more teams winning, but to have more teams winning,
[53:03.600 -> 53:05.240] we need someone to be
[53:08.400 -> 53:08.920] even worse than number 10 right now.
[53:12.980 -> 53:16.040] And just new drivers in, things happening, more cars on track. The tracks are so big these days and the cars are going to get
[53:16.080 -> 53:17.360] a little bit smaller as well.
[53:17.860 -> 53:20.760] I don't see anything wrong with 24 cars on the road.
[53:20.880 -> 53:23.880] I mean, 28 wouldn't be a problem for me.
[53:24.840 -> 53:28.520] Exactly. More cars on the grid is never, ever going to be a bad
[53:28.840 -> 53:32.560] thing. Especially like in the early 2010s, when we had, you
[53:32.560 -> 53:36.200] know, the Caterham and the Mauritius and the HRT, you know,
[53:36.200 -> 53:39.640] they in themselves provided some great battles. I will always
[53:39.640 -> 53:42.280] remember in 2012, like everyone's focusing on Alonso
[53:42.280 -> 53:44.800] versus Vettel for the title. But then further down, there's
[53:44.800 -> 53:49.960] their own like vital championship fight happening between Mauricio and Caterham.
[53:49.960 -> 53:55.600] And to the point about the two biggest prospects at the moment seem to be Hitech and Andretti,
[53:55.600 -> 54:02.480] who seem well-funded and are definitely credible as race teams.
[54:02.480 -> 54:06.960] I mean, Andretti's got a massive history in American sports car and single
[54:06.960 -> 54:13.600] seater racing and today Jake Dennis put one hand on the Formula E world title as well in the Andretti
[54:13.600 -> 54:23.240] car as well. So I just don't see why we can't just... well, I mean, we all know why common
[54:23.240 -> 54:26.280] sense won't just prevail in this, but it's such a shame
[54:26.280 -> 54:28.840] that we're not letting this happen, because it would be amazing.
[54:28.840 -> 54:31.840] CURTIS It is absolutely all about the money, and
[54:31.840 -> 54:34.040] it always will be, to a certain extent, in Formula 1.
[54:34.040 -> 54:43.160] But I have a secondary question, which is, if we were to expand to 12 teams, should we
[54:43.160 -> 54:45.380] change the championship points to go down
[54:45.380 -> 54:48.680] to P12, because that's still half the grid?
[54:48.680 -> 54:49.680] ALICE Absolutely not.
[54:49.680 -> 54:50.680] JUSTIN Yeah, yeah, that was...
[54:50.680 -> 54:51.680] ALICE What?!
[54:51.680 -> 54:52.680] No, of course.
[54:52.680 -> 54:53.680] No, why?
[54:53.680 -> 54:54.680] Why not?
[54:54.680 -> 54:55.680] ALICE Would you want a consolation prize?
[54:55.680 -> 54:59.160] It's supposed to be a degree of excellence to scoring a point.
[54:59.160 -> 55:01.160] JUSTIN I'm sorry, it's simple math.
[55:01.160 -> 55:04.020] Right now, half the drivers score points, half the drivers don't.
[55:04.020 -> 55:06.300] If we expand the grid, shouldn't half the drivers score points half the drivers don't if we okay and the grid shouldn't half the drivers
[55:06.300 -> 55:12.080] Still score points. It seems like a reasonable question for my side of the pond here. Let's do some more math then
[55:12.080 -> 55:18.320] Okay, when there were 24 cars before it was still only 10 teams or 10 drivers that were scoring and that was worse
[55:18.320 -> 55:25.520] It was wrong and and back back in the 90s when we had 26 cars and it was only eight drivers scoring points as well.
[55:25.520 -> 55:26.920] Why do we have to have it?
[55:26.920 -> 55:31.280] Oh, Chris, you're making us all feel old now because we can all remember only six drivers
[55:31.280 -> 55:32.280] scoring points.
[55:32.280 -> 55:33.280] Exactly.
[55:33.280 -> 55:36.920] Yeah, but only eight teams ever finished, so it really wasn't the issue you're making
[55:36.920 -> 55:37.920] it out to be.
[55:37.920 -> 55:38.920] Christian?
[55:38.920 -> 55:42.840] I think we should make it exciting to fight for 12th.
[55:42.840 -> 55:45.520] And I think we should make it exciting to fight for 18th. And I think we should make it exciting to fight for 18th.
[55:45.520 -> 55:48.120] And I mean, why fight for 18th?
[55:48.120 -> 55:49.400] Why destroy your tires?
[55:49.400 -> 55:54.240] Why maybe break a front wing on the third, last lap or whatever?
[55:54.240 -> 55:57.640] I mean, it should count all the way through down the field.
[55:57.640 -> 56:00.520] I know, of course, the winner should gain more
[56:00.520 -> 56:01.840] in the fastest lap and stuff.
[56:01.840 -> 56:03.480] Fastest lap for everyone should count.
[56:03.480 -> 56:06.640] It shouldn't be always Checo just pitting on the last lap
[56:06.640 -> 56:07.480] and doing his fastest.
[56:07.480 -> 56:09.720] I mean, it's so unexciting.
[56:09.720 -> 56:12.480] Everything in the field should be exciting.
[56:12.480 -> 56:14.560] Everyone's brought their A game.
[56:14.560 -> 56:16.480] Everyone's brought their, as we talked about,
[56:16.480 -> 56:18.360] gold-plated exhaust.
[56:18.360 -> 56:22.000] So why not reward everyone with what they're entitled to?
[56:22.000 -> 56:24.680] This is my favorite when Chris is like this wrong,
[56:24.680 -> 56:25.840] but he's passionately wrong.
[56:25.840 -> 56:29.920] So he's going to keep pushing the wrongness, which is great because it's no, it's good content.
[56:29.920 -> 56:33.040] I like it. It's nice to have a back and forth. I'm very open-minded.
[56:33.040 -> 56:39.280] So if you have points all the way down, you can't just say, right, well, because it's always been
[56:39.280 -> 56:42.320] this magic special thing to get a Grand Prix point.
[56:42.320 -> 56:44.160] That must be the way to go forward.
[56:44.160 -> 56:48.640] There's much more attention now on the teams. There's a lot more fans of drivers down the bottom end.
[56:48.640 -> 56:54.640] I'm not sure in the 90s as many people could name the entire F1 grid as can now. So look,
[56:54.640 -> 57:00.240] it doesn't have to be 25 points for a win. That's just been a quite recent and somewhat
[57:00.240 -> 57:05.600] arbitrary number. It could be 100 points for a win. It could be 18 times four,
[57:05.600 -> 57:09.240] whatever that is, for a second place. And then once you get below 10 points, it could
[57:09.240 -> 57:13.000] become a very small amount of points. So it's a very small amount of points where you're
[57:13.000 -> 57:18.160] unlikely to be competing and ruining things up front, but it's enough to differentiate.
[57:18.160 -> 57:23.480] I want to know who's been doing better over a season. Who's the 16th and 17th best driver.
[57:23.480 -> 57:25.040] I'd love to see that information.
[57:25.040 -> 57:29.360] You still see that because they still occasionally score points, which is a mark of excellence. But
[57:29.360 -> 57:34.240] Spanners, when you told the story of that, you know, dad race that you were in quite recently...
[57:34.240 -> 57:38.640] Oh no, not publicly, at my son's sports day.
[57:38.640 -> 57:39.920] You did? You talked about it on the show?
[57:39.920 -> 57:42.640] No, I think on the Patreon pod. I don't think I said it on the show.
[57:42.640 -> 57:43.680] Oh, okay. Sorry.
[57:45.680 -> 57:46.400] Okay, so...
[57:46.400 -> 57:47.440] You want to tell the story now?
[57:47.440 -> 57:51.120] No, no. I was at my son's sports day and they said, oh, this is a parents race,
[57:51.120 -> 57:54.960] so who wants to get involved? And then I looked, I didn't really, but then I thought,
[57:54.960 -> 57:59.200] I'm going to get injured. So anyway, I saw that they were one person short and they were begging.
[57:59.200 -> 58:03.040] I went, okay, okay, okay, okay. I'll go and do it. What I didn't realize is they then put us up
[58:03.040 -> 58:09.000] against a team of the PE teachers and a team of the year 8s and a team of the year 9s.
[58:09.000 -> 58:20.000] And obviously, so the two dad teams came dead last. And I was so... my team was so far behind when I got the baton that I received that sarcastic applause that you get for like just trying.
[58:20.000 -> 58:29.360] You know, at the end, like, oh, look at him trying. Look at his little face. He's still trying. Yeah, what's your point? Why am I sharing? Do you want to do that for Formula 1 drivers? Really? Really?
[58:29.360 -> 58:35.520] Are you comparing struggling for, fighting for points for 13th to me flopping my way down the
[58:35.520 -> 58:37.760] 100 metre track at my kids' sports day? Absolutely.
[58:37.760 -> 58:41.760] Oh, Matt, it's harsh. It is. And since I haven't apparently
[58:41.760 -> 58:45.320] fomented enough chaos into the points yet, I have a
[58:45.320 -> 58:50.480] further proposal, which is based entirely on vibes.
[58:50.480 -> 58:57.440] I think the distance between first and second place is now, in these days of uber-reliability,
[58:57.440 -> 58:59.400] entirely too much.
[58:59.400 -> 59:00.400] Too big.
[59:00.400 -> 59:01.400] Yes.
[59:01.400 -> 59:02.400] At least I agree with you.
[59:02.400 -> 59:06.480] I say we bring it down to make life more interesting for everybody.
[59:06.480 -> 59:09.560] Yeah, like 20 points for second place or something like that.
[59:09.560 -> 59:13.000] So it's only a five point difference rather than a seven, which is probably actually too
[59:13.000 -> 59:18.360] big when you consider the previous point system before 2010, it was 10 and eight.
[59:18.360 -> 59:20.320] Yeah, yeah.
[59:20.320 -> 59:21.320] This is my thing.
[59:21.320 -> 59:25.680] I would love to shrink the distance between first and second place to something like,
[59:25.680 -> 59:28.760] like you said, maybe four points or five at most
[59:28.760 -> 59:30.440] with the fast lap floating around
[59:30.440 -> 59:32.000] to make life more interesting then.
[59:32.000 -> 59:35.360] So 100 points for the winner, 98 points for second place.
[59:35.360 -> 59:37.080] Okay, we're making progress now, Christian.
[59:37.080 -> 59:38.440] We're making progress.
[59:38.440 -> 59:40.640] I think one of the reasons why they changed it
[59:40.640 -> 59:44.880] was you could basically win all races all year
[59:44.880 -> 59:45.640] and then the other
[59:45.640 -> 59:48.240] guy coming second couldn't win it, won and then be champion.
[59:49.360 -> 59:54.280] You had to do something about the points so it would, if you won all the
[59:54.280 -> 59:57.920] races or half the races or was champion, it would reflect so.
[59:57.920 -> 59:59.080] Yeah, wins should be.
[59:59.080 -> 01:00:03.720] I think this debate is also always returning when someone is riding away
[01:00:03.720 -> 01:00:05.680] like Hamilton did or Verstappen
[01:00:05.680 -> 01:00:10.400] do right now, then this comes up because we are we're just so bored about it. We need to do
[01:00:10.400 -> 01:00:16.240] something. What can we do? Well, I don't think the points are the way to go, though.
[01:00:16.240 -> 01:00:20.960] Well, maybe, but like, the point you're saying is that we are all switching off to Verstappen
[01:00:20.960 -> 01:00:24.880] at the front and we're looking further down the field for our entertainment. And sometimes you
[01:00:24.880 -> 01:00:27.840] see a good battle and you go, oh's not for any points so why you know
[01:00:28.480 -> 01:00:33.360] what's the incentive and you'll remember Alonso who anytime he was like 12th or below in the
[01:00:33.360 -> 01:00:38.000] McLaren he would suddenly be like oh no there's a vibration because he basically didn't want to
[01:00:38.000 -> 01:00:46.560] finish 12th. The thing is for me I know you say, oh, why am I going to risk anything if I'm only in 18th?
[01:00:46.560 -> 01:00:49.440] Because you may as well just pack up and go home
[01:00:49.440 -> 01:00:51.600] and never race a car again.
[01:00:51.600 -> 01:00:53.040] That's what Alonso was doing.
[01:00:53.040 -> 01:00:55.040] That's what Alonso was doing at McLaren.
[01:00:55.040 -> 01:00:57.360] I know, and I absolutely hated that he did that
[01:00:57.360 -> 01:01:00.640] because that is just, for me, just pack up and go home.
[01:01:00.640 -> 01:01:03.440] And he kind of did, frankly, for a little while, didn't he?
[01:01:03.440 -> 01:01:10.240] He went and tried something else. I just think that says so much about you as a racing driver, that
[01:01:10.240 -> 01:01:13.040] you would just be so willing to give up. Remember when Manor...
[01:01:13.040 -> 01:01:21.600] But Chris, imagine we're at the end of season. We have Haas, we have Alfa Romeo fighting,
[01:01:21.600 -> 01:01:27.480] and none of them have points. We still want to know who did best, but the point just doesn't reflect anything because
[01:01:27.480 -> 01:01:28.480] they both have zero.
[01:01:28.480 -> 01:01:29.480] So if...
[01:01:29.480 -> 01:01:30.480] Look into it.
[01:01:30.480 -> 01:01:34.040] Yeah, I know, but that is not the way the sport works.
[01:01:34.040 -> 01:01:35.700] It's not for the looking into it.
[01:01:35.700 -> 01:01:38.600] It's for everyone to understand it immediately.
[01:01:38.600 -> 01:01:43.240] You know, they're not very good because none of them have scored points.
[01:01:43.240 -> 01:01:46.040] You know how we were just talking about how amazing our patrons were?
[01:01:46.040 -> 01:01:51.000] Well, I have an idea from our patron chat, from Morgan, who suggests that if you go two
[01:01:51.000 -> 01:01:56.720] straight seasons in Formula One without scoring a single point, you should be banished from
[01:01:56.720 -> 01:01:57.720] the sport.
[01:01:57.720 -> 01:01:58.720] What do we think?
[01:01:58.720 -> 01:02:01.320] ALICE I mean, in today's format, that kind of works.
[01:02:01.320 -> 01:02:03.600] CURTAIN Yeah, so that's one vote.
[01:02:03.600 -> 01:02:07.680] ALICE But not if we have 24 cars on the grid and we keep the current system.
[01:02:07.680 -> 01:02:09.240] What if we put the points down to 12?
[01:02:09.240 -> 01:02:10.880] Then maybe that would be fair after all.
[01:02:10.880 -> 01:02:11.880] No!
[01:02:11.880 -> 01:02:15.560] Do you remember when Manor scored points?
[01:02:15.560 -> 01:02:19.520] Like twice they did it in their entire tenure in the sport.
[01:02:19.520 -> 01:02:25.040] Do you remember how ecstatic and emotionally vibrant and amazing those moments are.
[01:02:25.040 -> 01:02:27.520] They might be few and far between, but they are so richly consistent.
[01:02:27.520 -> 01:02:29.200] But Chris, you will still get this.
[01:02:29.200 -> 01:02:31.120] You will just get the right points.
[01:02:31.120 -> 01:02:34.280] There will still be a fight at the last race for that one point.
[01:02:34.280 -> 01:02:40.360] I always tell guys, I'm not this fan of antiquity and tradition at all.
[01:02:40.360 -> 01:02:44.640] I always say, do the best solution, not just pick a solution because it's always been.
[01:02:44.640 -> 01:02:46.280] Are you really saying we can't have a
[01:02:46.280 -> 01:02:50.720] better point system for the sake of two moments where Manor scored a point?
[01:02:50.760 -> 01:02:56.580] That feels like too little of a of a return on investment to me to make me go. Oh, no, you're right
[01:02:56.580 -> 01:03:00.520] Oh my god, I'm gonna have to agree with you here Spanners. Oh, no, sorry about that
[01:03:00.520 -> 01:03:05.280] When was the last when was that? When was the last time when did MANA score a point? 2012?
[01:03:08.560 -> 01:03:10.880] No, they scored points in... oh god, what was it? 2014. Okay, so 10 years ago, Chris.
[01:03:10.880 -> 01:03:14.960] And then Wehrlein scored a couple of points in Austria 2016.
[01:03:14.960 -> 01:03:20.480] Okay, well we can't have me and Matt agreeing for too long, so let's argue about tyres.
[01:03:20.480 -> 01:03:26.480] Okay, so I would say Matt, you're actually a Pirelli supporter. You seem quite always
[01:03:26.480 -> 01:03:31.280] supportive of what they do and defend them and I think you get what they're going for.
[01:03:31.840 -> 01:03:41.200] Well, I do. And fundamentally, I feel like they are never given the cards to properly defend
[01:03:41.200 -> 01:03:46.640] themselves. Just based on the way testing for tires and the way everything
[01:03:46.640 -> 01:03:53.760] else works, they're always catching up with reality from a point of a great deal of lag.
[01:03:53.760 -> 01:03:58.160] So I do tend to cut them slack because they attempt to do what the FIA asks.
[01:03:59.200 -> 01:04:03.440] Okay, so that makes any sense. Yeah. So here's my argument. I understand the task they've been
[01:04:03.440 -> 01:04:07.120] given to do, which is to create tyres that will wear
[01:04:07.120 -> 01:04:10.600] in a certain fashion so that they can be used as part of the strategy.
[01:04:10.600 -> 01:04:14.400] And I'm also very sympathetic to the fact that they don't want their tyres blowing up
[01:04:14.400 -> 01:04:19.760] every five minutes or falling apart completely because this is, again, this is why don't
[01:04:19.760 -> 01:04:21.560] overreact in the media too much.
[01:04:21.560 -> 01:04:25.760] The whole chocolate tyres thing killed what everyone was excited
[01:04:25.760 -> 01:04:29.380] about initially about the Pirelli tyres, which was the three stop and four stop, which is
[01:04:29.380 -> 01:04:33.920] possibly a little bit too far. But because they went around saying, Pirelli has chocolate
[01:04:33.920 -> 01:04:38.840] tyres, these tyres are ridiculous, that hurts Pirelli's reputation. And I feel now they
[01:04:38.840 -> 01:04:44.400] wanted to protect that by showing they had durable tyres that did the job, that just
[01:04:44.400 -> 01:04:45.680] there was a slight margin in the
[01:04:45.680 -> 01:04:49.920] times between an old tire and a new tire and that's what protected them. But I think they've
[01:04:49.920 -> 01:04:56.640] gone way way way too far now. They had to increase the strength of the sidewall, which I think at the
[01:04:56.640 -> 01:05:00.960] time we were like yeah but that won't increase the wear, but the tires they came out with at
[01:05:00.960 -> 01:05:05.320] Silverstone, like can we at least agree that that shows Pirelli
[01:05:05.320 -> 01:05:10.540] have just misstepped in this direction, they've gone too hard, they've gone too hard wearing
[01:05:10.540 -> 01:05:16.220] and now in a formula which is nearly entirely designed around this kind of tyre strategy
[01:05:16.220 -> 01:05:21.400] and tyre wear, like cars build their cars, teams build their cars to the Pirelli tyre
[01:05:21.400 -> 01:05:29.760] wear, what we saw at Silverstone doesn't match that. And actually Silverstone, which is a cracking circuit that produces great racing, was saved
[01:05:29.760 -> 01:05:37.480] by a safety car. We very nearly had hordes of people from Reddit calling Silverstone boring,
[01:05:37.480 -> 01:05:41.200] and that would have been a problem. And I think this lands on Pirelli.
[01:05:41.200 -> 01:05:46.080] Well, I think it tends to land more on the physics of the race track
[01:05:46.080 -> 01:05:53.520] at Silverstone. I don't think they could have brought softer tires to this particular race.
[01:05:53.520 -> 01:06:01.680] Why? Well, it's pretty simple. Silverstone, of all the tracks that we go to, puts the most amount
[01:06:01.680 -> 01:06:05.920] of energy, specifically laterally, into the tires, and that puts the most stress of energy specifically laterally into the tires
[01:06:05.920 -> 01:06:10.600] and that puts the most stress onto that sidewall that you previously mentioned
[01:06:10.600 -> 01:06:16.320] and you may remember them saying oh um yeah it looks like the teams were like a
[01:06:16.320 -> 01:06:22.000] little faster and stuff so maybe we bring some 2024 tire technology and they
[01:06:22.000 -> 01:06:29.280] had tests and they said not gonna affect the performance but the tires will be stronger and having said that when we
[01:06:29.280 -> 01:06:34.960] showed up to the actual race the front tire pressures which no one will know
[01:06:34.960 -> 01:06:40.520] what this is unless you're really into the minutiae of tires were 26 psi which
[01:06:40.520 -> 01:06:46.680] is about three three and a half more than you usually see the front tires at and that's what the brand new tires
[01:06:46.880 -> 01:06:48.640] So what does that really mean?
[01:06:48.640 -> 01:06:52.380] What that really means is that back when the FIA said? Oh, we're gonna raise
[01:06:52.900 -> 01:06:59.460] The floor to solve the bouncing problem and that's gonna that's gonna hobble the downforce creation of the teams
[01:06:59.640 -> 01:07:02.520] Enough that we don't have to worry too much about the tires
[01:07:02.920 -> 01:07:05.100] It just means they were completely,
[01:07:05.100 -> 01:07:06.660] completely wrong about that.
[01:07:06.660 -> 01:07:08.940] And the teams are producing a huge amount of downforce.
[01:07:08.940 -> 01:07:11.300] They're going much faster than anyone predicted.
[01:07:11.300 -> 01:07:14.660] And Pirelli at Silverstone was just hanging on
[01:07:14.660 -> 01:07:17.460] with their fingertips, hoping to not have
[01:07:17.460 -> 01:07:20.080] like that repeat of Lewis finishing his last lap
[01:07:20.080 -> 01:07:21.920] with three tires and everyone pitting at the end
[01:07:21.920 -> 01:07:23.500] because they thought their tires were gonna blow up.
[01:07:23.500 -> 01:07:24.960] That was so good though.
[01:07:24.960 -> 01:07:25.960] That was so good.
[01:07:25.960 -> 01:07:27.400] If you weren't watching, what year was that?
[01:07:27.400 -> 01:07:28.400] Was that 2020?
[01:07:28.400 -> 01:07:29.400] 20 or 21 maybe.
[01:07:29.400 -> 01:07:35.400] Oh, 2020 because there were two Grand Prix that year at Silverstone, weren't there?
[01:07:35.400 -> 01:07:36.400] Because they had something like that.
[01:07:36.400 -> 01:07:37.400] Oh, it would be 2020 then.
[01:07:37.400 -> 01:07:40.520] And it was, that was when Lewis won on three wheels, wasn't it?
[01:07:40.520 -> 01:07:42.680] Yeah, that was, go and search that.
[01:07:42.680 -> 01:07:49.320] Go and search Lewis Hamilton, three wheels, Silverstone. And to watch that lap countdown, yeah, because it was the, was it the front left had gone?
[01:07:49.600 -> 01:07:56.360] So he was really trying to manage that and then Verstappen was closing down and just listened to the radio communication between
[01:07:57.000 -> 01:08:02.920] his mechanic, Lewis Hamilton and Bono, and they were just really calmly counting down the gap. Because I think it came from like
[01:08:03.120 -> 01:08:07.080] 20 seconds back or something and by the end it was like two seconds.
[01:08:07.080 -> 01:08:13.120] And the calmness of it, and then just go, how do you adapt your racing style to suddenly
[01:08:13.120 -> 01:08:16.000] do the fastest available lap on three wheels?
[01:08:16.000 -> 01:08:20.680] That has got to be one of the most underrated drives of all time, to bring it over the finish
[01:08:20.680 -> 01:08:21.680] line.
[01:08:21.680 -> 01:08:26.200] I know that car was a beast, but still, you still, he couldn't just limp home back to the pits.
[01:08:26.200 -> 01:08:28.760] He had to push on three wheels to win.
[01:08:28.760 -> 01:08:30.280] Go and look that up.
[01:08:30.280 -> 01:08:33.040] So Matt, I don't think we're disagreeing
[01:08:33.040 -> 01:08:36.840] too much at the moment, but Christian might change that.
[01:08:37.680 -> 01:08:40.440] I'm not gonna disagree, because I mean,
[01:08:40.440 -> 01:08:45.800] I just think it's 26 PSI is a lot. It is.
[01:08:45.800 -> 01:08:47.600] That's a lot.
[01:08:47.600 -> 01:08:48.600] It's too much.
[01:08:48.600 -> 01:08:50.600] Normally, it would be around 20.
[01:08:50.600 -> 01:08:56.400] I remember from go-karting, on karts, the wheels are a lot smaller, of course,
[01:08:56.400 -> 01:09:02.400] but your PSI is around like, you play around 7.5, 8.5, around that area.
[01:09:02.400 -> 01:09:03.600] That's like nothing.
[01:09:03.600 -> 01:09:08.120] 26 is a balloon, hardly inflated.
[01:09:08.740 -> 01:09:13.740] And if you race on a balloon, everything's just going to be not good.
[01:09:14.080 -> 01:09:15.680] The problem is it's not a balloon.
[01:09:15.680 -> 01:09:16.440] It's a rock.
[01:09:17.160 -> 01:09:17.960] Yeah, exactly.
[01:09:18.120 -> 01:09:24.120] Uh, so what Pirelli is doing is, uh, they are trying to do a tire, which
[01:09:24.120 -> 01:09:26.040] can follow the trend in Formula 1.
[01:09:26.440 -> 01:09:31.040] And if they have to update the tire halfway through a year already, that is
[01:09:31.040 -> 01:09:32.920] because they have reached their PSI limit.
[01:09:33.400 -> 01:09:36.080] So then they have to introduce a new tire, which is harder, then
[01:09:36.080 -> 01:09:37.560] they can turn down the PSI.
[01:09:37.560 -> 01:09:39.240] You have a more flat tire.
[01:09:39.480 -> 01:09:46.240] For people not understanding this, basically the power in the tire, it wants to go, the car wants
[01:09:46.240 -> 01:09:51.120] it to go sideways while going straight ahead.
[01:09:51.120 -> 01:09:56.200] So it's around like half, one and a half ton that wants to go sideways.
[01:09:56.200 -> 01:09:57.760] Oh, in a corner.
[01:09:57.760 -> 01:10:03.240] At every corner, sometimes doing 250 kilometers an hour.
[01:10:03.240 -> 01:10:05.000] That is just a whole lot of power.
[01:10:05.000 -> 01:10:10.480] And if it's inflated to 26 PSI, that is going to change the entire behavior of the
[01:10:10.480 -> 01:10:11.900] tire as well.
[01:10:11.900 -> 01:10:16.320] So it's just a lose-lose for Pirelli, isn't it?
[01:10:16.320 -> 01:10:18.240] I mean, how can they ever win this?
[01:10:18.240 -> 01:10:19.240] Yeah.
[01:10:19.240 -> 01:10:23.880] And the thing here to consider, and why I fundamentally disagree with Spanner is about
[01:10:23.880 -> 01:10:25.520] the compound choice here,
[01:10:25.520 -> 01:10:31.520] is if they had brought grippier compounds from a wear point of view, they might have lasted.
[01:10:31.520 -> 01:10:37.040] But a grippier compound gives you even more what they call lateral acceleration,
[01:10:37.040 -> 01:10:43.680] or that sideways force, which stresses the sidewall even more. So you either have to have
[01:10:43.680 -> 01:10:46.100] even higher pressures, which you can't
[01:10:46.100 -> 01:10:50.540] maxed out, you get to a point where your sidewall will fail because you have too
[01:10:50.540 -> 01:10:55.540] much lateral acceleration. And that's why I think they chose these specific
[01:10:55.540 -> 01:11:00.240] compounds as being the ones they knew would survive the physics of this
[01:11:00.240 -> 01:11:07.360] racetrack. I think also maybe we should think about changing the narrative. So maybe
[01:11:07.360 -> 01:11:13.200] Pirelli should be communicating, this tire is made soft and you're not allowed, if you go more than
[01:11:13.200 -> 01:11:18.640] 20 laps on this tire, there's no guarantee. So everyone's doing it, or if the tire blows up,
[01:11:18.640 -> 01:11:22.960] it's because of the team. Well, that kind of was where we were at. I mean, if you look at Baku
[01:11:22.960 -> 01:11:30.160] 2021, that's a good example of that, Matt. Yeah, or Vettel at Spa when he was racing Grosjean. Blew his tyre up,
[01:11:30.160 -> 01:11:33.120] not wanting to change it. Yeah, but still the headline is
[01:11:35.280 -> 01:11:39.280] bad tyres parade. Exactly, by Pirelli. Yeah. I mean, that's the narrative we have to change,
[01:11:39.280 -> 01:11:44.800] I think. Okay, and the issue is here, Matt. Like, okay, so we painted the picture of them
[01:11:44.800 -> 01:11:45.000] sort of doing what they feel they need to do. I still think they're being conservative to protect Okay, and the issue is here, Matt. Like, okay, so we painted the picture of them
[01:11:45.000 -> 01:11:47.040] sort of doing what they feel they need to do.
[01:11:47.040 -> 01:11:49.440] I still think they're being conservative
[01:11:49.440 -> 01:11:50.680] to protect reputation,
[01:11:50.680 -> 01:11:53.240] and I can't blame that from a business point of view.
[01:11:53.240 -> 01:11:56.100] They've had a lot of unfair criticism over the years.
[01:11:56.100 -> 01:11:58.960] But these cars are designed around
[01:11:58.960 -> 01:12:01.040] managing the tire and tire wear.
[01:12:01.040 -> 01:12:02.560] When you take that away,
[01:12:02.560 -> 01:12:08.880] it actually becomes like a completely different formula. Why was the Silverstone grid and the order so much different to what people
[01:12:08.880 -> 01:12:12.920] were expecting? How come McLaren, who'd been struggling with tyre wear, suddenly were able
[01:12:12.920 -> 01:12:19.040] to look really competitive up at the front? It's a major decision to go onto this new
[01:12:19.040 -> 01:12:25.140] type of tyre and it has absolutely just, apart from Verstappen up front,
[01:12:25.140 -> 01:12:27.000] it's kind of turned the season on its head
[01:12:27.000 -> 01:12:29.540] in a not dissimilar way to 2013.
[01:12:29.540 -> 01:12:32.060] Well, the problem here is we also have
[01:12:32.060 -> 01:12:35.820] the massive update from McLaren complicating the issue.
[01:12:35.820 -> 01:12:37.380] We don't know if it was just the tires.
[01:12:37.380 -> 01:12:39.480] We'd love to take that factor out, yeah.
[01:12:39.480 -> 01:12:41.620] Yeah, but having said that,
[01:12:41.620 -> 01:12:43.720] I would expect at any other racetrack
[01:12:43.720 -> 01:12:51.780] to see much more representative pressures, and that may really have had a lot more to do with sort of the unusual performance of a lot of the teams
[01:12:52.720 -> 01:12:56.880] In the sense that you'll have a contact patch. That's much more
[01:12:57.400 -> 01:13:02.320] The normal shape and the tire will have much more its normal thermal performance
[01:13:02.740 -> 01:13:08.240] because I know there were a lot of teams struggling with overheating. And it just again this is like the
[01:13:08.240 -> 01:13:13.680] short-sighted thing is that the problem really is at Pirelli and the FIA
[01:13:13.680 -> 01:13:18.280] massively underestimated how much downforce the teams were going to claw
[01:13:18.280 -> 01:13:23.360] back over the offseason. So much so that they've essentially moved their entire
[01:13:23.360 -> 01:13:25.680] development cycle six months forward.
[01:13:26.240 -> 01:13:30.880] And that is the problem that really needs to be solved before we can get into the,
[01:13:30.880 -> 01:13:34.640] well, why didn't you bring the 3-4-5 instead of the 1-2-3, for example.
[01:13:35.840 -> 01:13:40.720] Yeah, my fear is, Matt, it's just going to, you know, if they stay down this conservative path,
[01:13:40.720 -> 01:13:46.480] and let's hope not, let's hope this was a glitch. I think Formula One isn't set
[01:13:46.480 -> 01:13:52.320] up to provide exciting entertaining races around a mega hard tire that doesn't wear anymore,
[01:13:52.320 -> 01:13:55.760] it's going to drive complaints. So if that's the way they're going for the rest of the season,
[01:13:56.480 -> 01:14:01.200] I do kind of fear for, you know, I fear for the Reddit forums. That's who I'm worried about.
[01:14:01.200 -> 01:14:05.200] Yeah, no, and I understand, but like in terms of things that I think about,
[01:14:05.200 -> 01:14:09.920] like look at the weather on Friday, look at how hot it was on Sunday, look at how cool it was.
[01:14:09.920 -> 01:14:15.040] That has a major impact. And I think if I'm not wrong, they brought the same tires, the one,
[01:14:15.040 -> 01:14:21.440] two, three, but the one they brought this year was actually a better performing and softer C1 tire
[01:14:21.440 -> 01:14:26.520] than they had last year. So it's not like they made no effort, but I think I would agree with you.
[01:14:26.520 -> 01:14:32.880] They are very conservatively bounded in that they don't want to bring a tire that's going to fail on a lot of cars, and that's
[01:14:32.880 -> 01:14:34.880] going to be their bottom line.
[01:14:34.880 -> 01:14:37.420] Okay, so look, we're used to a formula where
[01:14:37.920 -> 01:14:41.380] tires are a real integral part of the strategy,
[01:14:41.600 -> 01:14:49.140] but of course in the long, long ago, and and in the before time they used to have a thing called refueling and we get a lot of people
[01:14:49.140 -> 01:14:54.760] going bring refueling back and we get a lot of newer fans asking why refueling
[01:14:54.760 -> 01:14:58.040] shouldn't be introduced into Formula One and we haven't spoken about this for a
[01:14:58.040 -> 01:15:02.720] while but firstly is there anyone on the panel who would welcome a return of
[01:15:02.720 -> 01:15:05.560] refueling in Formula One.
[01:15:05.560 -> 01:15:10.320] And that's looking like a stoic no, so I'm glad we're all on the same page there, Chris.
[01:15:10.320 -> 01:15:11.320] Crickets.
[01:15:11.320 -> 01:15:12.320] Yeah, exactly.
[01:15:12.320 -> 01:15:17.720] No, no, I assumed that, and I think it's a fair question to ask, because the refueling
[01:15:17.720 -> 01:15:22.840] did add a tactical element, it's just that the viewer was not privy to it at all.
[01:15:22.840 -> 01:15:26.320] So you'd go like, oh wow, um, yeah, that, you know,
[01:15:26.320 -> 01:15:30.880] Webber's doing really well. And then it would turn out after 10 laps, like, no, he just didn't put any
[01:15:30.880 -> 01:15:36.240] fuel in in qualifying to go on pole. Um, and you know, aside from the danger side of it,
[01:15:36.240 -> 01:15:41.520] it just really meant that you couldn't tell what was going on in a race until about 10 laps from
[01:15:41.520 -> 01:15:46.800] the end, until everyone had finished refueling. And what you had was the commentators with a little stopwatch
[01:15:46.800 -> 01:15:50.200] trying to time how long the fuel pump had been attached
[01:15:50.200 -> 01:15:52.300] to estimate how much fuel had gone in
[01:15:52.300 -> 01:15:54.000] to see whether they were going to go the rest of the race
[01:15:54.000 -> 01:15:57.200] or whether they were going to do a little short sprint and then refuel again.
[01:15:57.200 -> 01:16:02.700] Christian, not even you, not even old man Pedersen wants a return to refueling.
[01:16:02.700 -> 01:16:06.760] No, but I would like if we on screen had tyre
[01:16:06.760 -> 01:16:12.840] pressure and we had the amount of fuel in each car. I mean all these sorts
[01:16:12.840 -> 01:16:16.320] of information should be available to the public so it would be much easier
[01:16:16.320 -> 01:16:20.980] for us to judge the race as it would have been back in the days if everyone
[01:16:20.980 -> 01:16:26.360] knew that this car is starting on one lit fuel, et cetera. Chris, it works really well in Formula E.
[01:16:26.360 -> 01:16:29.560] In the first race, we were watching in Rome,
[01:16:29.560 -> 01:16:33.560] and Jake Dennis made a real charge up front in race one.
[01:16:33.560 -> 01:16:36.020] But we could see that he had 3% less,
[01:16:36.020 -> 01:16:38.600] and we could see that the early leader had 3% less.
[01:16:38.600 -> 01:16:40.760] So you go, OK, you can put that into context straight away.
[01:16:40.760 -> 01:16:42.440] And having that information in Formula E
[01:16:42.440 -> 01:16:44.280] is actually really cool.
[01:16:44.280 -> 01:16:48.880] Yeah, but that's because it's such a fundamental part of strategy in Formula E,
[01:16:48.880 -> 01:16:53.680] it would be like not knowing what compound of tyre a driver was on in Formula 1, so that's
[01:16:53.680 -> 01:16:57.680] kind of really vital. It does make me laugh when we talk about where we should have a graphic for
[01:16:57.680 -> 01:17:01.760] this, that and the other thing because do you remember at the start of the hybrid era they
[01:17:01.760 -> 01:17:08.240] were like yeah we're gonna have all this stuff that shows you the deployment and how much they're saving and it lasted for all of what three races?
[01:17:08.240 -> 01:17:16.240] That was a really big push from Liberty Media and Rob Smedley who was on this show talking about it
[01:17:16.800 -> 01:17:21.520] they were really trying to bring more of that information to Formula One and that's the era
[01:17:21.520 -> 01:17:25.440] of all the replays as well showing more more of the on-board, showing the reaction
[01:17:25.440 -> 01:17:29.200] times. Do you remember reaction times was going to be a big thing and that's kind of melted away?
[01:17:29.200 -> 01:17:30.000] They still do it, yeah.
[01:17:30.000 -> 01:17:30.400] Do they?
[01:17:30.400 -> 01:17:33.680] Now they're on about, yeah, yeah, yeah, if they show like the replay of the start they'll
[01:17:34.320 -> 01:17:37.200] normally put like in the corner reaction time.
[01:17:37.200 -> 01:17:38.080] Oh, I've missed that then.
[01:17:38.960 -> 01:17:42.560] Because you're too busy looking at your blooming timing screens. I keep telling you though that
[01:17:42.560 -> 01:17:45.200] all they do is distract you. But one thing
[01:17:45.200 -> 01:17:49.760] they're also doing at the moment, I think, because they trialed it in Formula 2 last weekend,
[01:17:53.200 -> 01:17:57.760] for Hungary, is the heart rates, which I think is really interesting. So I remember seeing this on
[01:17:58.640 -> 01:18:03.360] the Isle of Man TT coverage, and you watch them as they build up the speed coming, you know,
[01:18:03.360 -> 01:18:09.760] of the mountain course, and they're doing 200 beats per minute yeah. I don't want I'd never introduce that into Miss Dapex
[01:18:09.760 -> 01:18:14.080] karting because I can just see like my kids and my wife going oh no bring him bring him back
[01:18:14.800 -> 01:18:18.400] what's he doing because I don't know if you've ever seen me come off from karting but like I
[01:18:18.400 -> 01:18:24.080] I treat it like a full like pump and I like I've got a big uh blueberry face and I'm dripping I've
[01:18:24.080 -> 01:18:25.280] lost half my body weight in
[01:18:25.280 -> 01:18:30.720] water by the time I finish karting never ever show my body metrics no one will let me race again.
[01:18:32.080 -> 01:18:38.560] Well to me I miss still the tyre cameras remember the the cameras that showed you the tyre
[01:18:38.560 -> 01:18:44.160] temperatures? The thermal cameras. Yeah they were cool. I loved those and the teams got rid of them
[01:18:44.160 -> 01:18:47.180] very rapidly because they realized they didn't want the
[01:18:47.180 -> 01:18:49.960] other teams seeing what their tires were up to.
[01:18:49.960 -> 01:18:55.240] And I think a lot of the metrics that we would be most interested in have gotten banned for
[01:18:55.240 -> 01:18:56.640] exactly the same reason.
[01:18:56.640 -> 01:19:00.120] The teams don't want that information being made public.
[01:19:00.120 -> 01:19:05.360] And it's always a battle, I think, that Formula 1, the business, is going to have to fight
[01:19:05.360 -> 01:19:10.960] a bit because if it was up to the teams, we would know nothing ever about anything.
[01:19:10.960 -> 01:19:13.840] But knowing nothing, how much would we enjoy the sport?
[01:19:13.840 -> 01:19:22.400] There should be this rule that when you leave the garage on Friday morning, FP1, everything
[01:19:22.400 -> 01:19:24.280] should be told.
[01:19:24.280 -> 01:19:25.600] You cannot have any secrets.
[01:19:25.600 -> 01:19:30.080] So your tire pressure, everything, even the driver's condition.
[01:19:30.600 -> 01:19:32.640] And you cannot hold back.
[01:19:32.640 -> 01:19:36.480] Photographers, if someone asks you about an item on the car,
[01:19:36.480 -> 01:19:37.880] you have to say what it is.
[01:19:38.120 -> 01:19:43.640] I mean, currently we have these things where, well, that was the intent at least.
[01:19:44.080 -> 01:19:47.040] Before each race on Friday, they put up all the cars
[01:19:47.040 -> 01:19:48.960] and everyone has to put out a statement
[01:19:48.960 -> 01:19:52.480] with whatever they made of changes to the car.
[01:19:52.480 -> 01:19:53.880] And Red Bull just didn't care.
[01:19:53.880 -> 01:19:56.040] They just didn't put anything in there.
[01:19:56.040 -> 01:19:57.920] And I think some of the teams started out
[01:19:57.920 -> 01:19:59.320] by writing down everything.
[01:19:59.320 -> 01:20:01.680] And then when they realized no one else did it,
[01:20:01.680 -> 01:20:03.540] things just got forgotten.
[01:20:03.540 -> 01:20:10.680] There's something wrong about having secrets in a sport that is about us watching it.
[01:20:10.680 -> 01:20:12.800] You can't combine those two things.
[01:20:12.800 -> 01:20:20.640] Just the last thing on the refueling for me really is that we have to trade in some safety
[01:20:20.640 -> 01:20:26.480] because right now we've got mechanics changing tires in two seconds and that occasionally
[01:20:26.480 -> 01:20:34.960] leads to mechanics getting hauled off by a by a wheel gun or a loose wheel rolling down pit lane
[01:20:34.960 -> 01:20:40.800] and then if we go to refueling then the tire changes will obviously slow down because the
[01:20:40.800 -> 01:20:49.160] limiting factor is going to be the fuel going in, but then you know suddenly we introduce a risk of people catching on fire and if there's one
[01:20:49.160 -> 01:20:56.040] group of people who will very sternly say no to refueling it's going to be
[01:20:56.040 -> 01:20:59.960] pit lane reporters because right now Ted Kravitz can wander down pit lane in his
[01:20:59.960 -> 01:21:04.600] shorts and sandals but if they bring back refueling he's gonna have to
[01:21:04.600 -> 01:21:05.520] suit up with the overalls like they do for endurance racing and shorts and sandals, but if they bring back refueling, he's going to have to, you know,
[01:21:05.520 -> 01:21:11.720] suit up with the overalls like they do for endurance racing. And it gets hot in those
[01:21:11.720 -> 01:21:12.720] things.
[01:21:12.720 -> 01:21:17.240] I would think the mechanics also being the ones catching on fire might have something
[01:21:17.240 -> 01:21:18.240] to say about it too.
[01:21:18.240 -> 01:21:22.780] But they're used to it. They're used to being in those, you know, the Nomecs and all that.
[01:21:22.780 -> 01:21:25.920] The Patreon live chat is having a chat
[01:21:25.920 -> 01:21:28.080] about viewer heart rates.
[01:21:28.080 -> 01:21:31.580] So maybe we do that for a live watch along at some point.
[01:21:31.580 -> 01:21:32.420] Because-
[01:21:32.420 -> 01:21:33.800] Oh my God, yes.
[01:21:33.800 -> 01:21:35.640] We all sit here with like our resting, you know,
[01:21:35.640 -> 01:21:36.840] heart rates at the beginning.
[01:21:36.840 -> 01:21:40.120] And I'm scared actually to think of what my heart rate is
[01:21:40.120 -> 01:21:41.520] as the lights are going green,
[01:21:41.520 -> 01:21:45.520] even after whatever it is, 30 odd years watching Formula 1,
[01:21:45.520 -> 01:21:49.760] like especially the Silverstone Grand Prix, which holds a special place in my heart,
[01:21:49.760 -> 01:21:56.160] I was like buzzing all day for that. And by the time the start came around, I think my heart was
[01:21:56.160 -> 01:22:01.200] exploding out of my chest, like I feel a genuine grip of like anxiety and excitement. I know that
[01:22:01.200 -> 01:22:09.520] sounds stupid for a 42 year old, like watching race cars on TV, but I still get that. And then when Norris overtook Verstappen, oh my goodness, like,
[01:22:09.520 -> 01:22:14.640] you know, just you have the 999 on it. I know it's only three numbers, but it's worth having it on a
[01:22:14.640 -> 01:22:19.280] on a pre-dial because because Chris, nine, you've got a, you've got a dial all the way around on the
[01:22:19.280 -> 01:22:27.120] dial. You've got to wait for it to go all the way back to 9 all the way like that. So I still am like that and I
[01:22:27.120 -> 01:22:32.560] think yeah people would be worried for my health if they saw the live heartbeat and blood pressure
[01:22:32.560 -> 01:22:38.720] uh at the start of a Formula One race but we can do it. You know on um iPhones now there's like an
[01:22:38.720 -> 01:22:43.200] automatic call the emergency services if you think you've been in a crash. That thing would be dialing
[01:22:43.200 -> 01:22:46.800] 999 every day if it had if I had one of those,
[01:22:46.800 -> 01:22:49.280] just from watching any kind of racing really.
[01:22:49.280 -> 01:22:53.160] Yeah, I don't think we should do that. I don't think we should do that. But we have got Hungaro
[01:22:53.160 -> 01:23:00.360] Ring coming up next week. And so quickly then from Matt, do you think Pirelli will, you
[01:23:00.360 -> 01:23:08.080] know, for want of a better term, get it right for Hungaro Ring? Can we expect a more normal tyre strategy? Although Hungara Ring does tend to be a one-stop anyway.
[01:23:08.960 -> 01:23:13.360] Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I could go look and see what the actual tyre allocation is and tell
[01:23:13.360 -> 01:23:19.040] you what compounds they've chosen. I don't think they've been any more conservative than they
[01:23:19.040 -> 01:23:24.080] normally are. Will it yield a two-stop? It's Hungary, probably not.
[01:23:24.720 -> 01:23:25.940] Prediction?
[01:23:25.940 -> 01:23:29.160] You don't really have any high speed cornering.
[01:23:29.160 -> 01:23:36.760] I mean, you have a lot of medium, high, medium, but no high, high speed cornering at Hungary.
[01:23:36.760 -> 01:23:41.820] And because it's quite hard to overtake, that naturally pushes teams to want to one stop
[01:23:41.820 -> 01:23:50.480] anyway because you're going to struggle to get through the field if you're put into traffic. So I think the only way we would see a two stopper is if we
[01:23:50.480 -> 01:23:54.800] see like what we saw with Hamilton and Verstappen a few years ago, where if you've got two cars that
[01:23:54.800 -> 01:24:00.960] are so far clearer of anyone else that they can try and recuperate that gap without anybody in
[01:24:00.960 -> 01:24:05.240] between them. But in terms of the fight we're expecting, because it's
[01:24:05.240 -> 01:24:11.760] so close between Mercedes, Ferrari, and Aston, and McLaren, now I think we're going to see
[01:24:11.760 -> 01:24:13.320] quite a natural one-stopper.
[01:24:13.320 -> 01:24:16.780] JUSTIN ACHTMAN According to the BBC, Matt, Budapest on Sunday
[01:24:16.780 -> 01:24:19.680] is going to be 30 degrees with a gentle breeze.
[01:24:19.680 -> 01:24:22.440] MATT MCLUHREN It should be reasonable track temperatures,
[01:24:22.440 -> 01:24:27.200] nothing under, you know, probably under 50 then I'd guess if it's 30 ambient.
[01:24:27.200 -> 01:24:34.000] And yeah, managing the tires, I'm interested to see how McLaren goes there.
[01:24:34.000 -> 01:24:38.480] Because Silverstone is a representative track, you sort of have all three different speeds
[01:24:38.480 -> 01:24:43.680] of corner, but it's very, very focused on the high speed and the high speed change of
[01:24:43.680 -> 01:24:50.600] direction. But we know for example Mercedes was really quick in the very low speed stuff and we
[01:24:50.600 -> 01:24:55.300] don't have the long straights that tend to benefit the Red Bull with their
[01:24:55.300 -> 01:25:02.120] super-efficient DRS. It could be a Hamilton trick. Just saying. It just I
[01:25:02.120 -> 01:25:06.240] don't know I'm not saying I'm this is, I'm genuinely curious to see
[01:25:06.240 -> 01:25:11.040] how the teams sort out minus Max, who will probably be fastest, because he apparently
[01:25:11.040 -> 01:25:13.040] always is going to be fastest this season.
[01:25:13.040 -> 01:25:18.880] But I think there's a lot of interesting unanswered questions going into Hungary, and I wouldn't
[01:25:18.880 -> 01:25:23.000] be surprised to see a big swing in team performance as a result of that.
[01:25:23.000 -> 01:25:26.760] Hungaroring is one of my favorite tracks on the calendar traditionally, even though
[01:25:26.760 -> 01:25:33.320] it is quite narrow and twisty, it is nearly exactly like your average indoor kart track.
[01:25:33.320 -> 01:25:37.840] It's the indoor kart track of Formula 1 in that large parts of it are just completely
[01:25:37.840 -> 01:25:38.840] unpassable.
[01:25:38.840 -> 01:25:42.640] However, you know, on those local tracks there is always that one, there's the one passing
[01:25:42.640 -> 01:25:43.640] point.
[01:25:43.640 -> 01:25:47.680] So basically they follow the leader all the way around to the back straight, and then they charge down to
[01:25:47.680 -> 01:25:54.400] a really long, technical, almost Luffield-esque right-hand hairpin, but you come into it at
[01:25:54.400 -> 01:25:59.120] a high speed, and then there's opportunities then to go into turn two as well and fight
[01:25:59.120 -> 01:26:03.480] into turn two, and then generally it's done. By the time you go up the hill to the left-hander
[01:26:03.480 -> 01:26:08.080] turn four, the overtaking's finished, and then they have to wait again to come back to that track.
[01:26:08.080 -> 01:26:12.640] But it always does provide some racing action through turn 1 and turn 2.
[01:26:12.640 -> 01:26:14.640] What you get is good battles. Yeah.
[01:26:15.520 -> 01:26:19.200] And I think that's quite exciting in and of itself, even if the pass doesn't always
[01:26:19.200 -> 01:26:24.400] necessarily come off. And then if somebody does get past you, then you know it was highly skilled.
[01:26:24.400 -> 01:26:29.600] And you get Bottas taking everyone out in T1. Yeah exactly. And just think and this
[01:26:29.600 -> 01:26:33.280] year because he's obviously further back down the grid he's got so many cars in front of
[01:26:33.280 -> 01:26:37.680] him. Exactly. The opportunities are endless. It might be a prime weekend. You know I was
[01:26:37.680 -> 01:26:42.920] in Budapest a few weeks ago for GT Open and we all thought about this being like it's
[01:26:42.920 -> 01:26:45.000] hardly a name drop. I was in Budapest in motorsport work, I'm Chris Stevens, being like, it's hardly a name drop.
[01:26:45.000 -> 01:26:47.960] I was in Budapest in motor sport work, I'm Chris Stevens.
[01:26:47.960 -> 01:26:49.160] Yeah, I mean, it's my job.
[01:26:49.160 -> 01:26:53.600] But we were kind of going into expecting the same thing
[01:26:53.600 -> 01:26:55.080] and we're like, oh, it's not gonna be much action.
[01:26:55.080 -> 01:26:58.640] And then, you know, it was sort of peddling along nicely,
[01:26:58.640 -> 01:27:01.480] but then the conclusion of the race was absolutely immense
[01:27:01.480 -> 01:27:05.800] that came down to a driver at the last corner on the last
[01:27:05.800 -> 01:27:13.180] lap going round the outside for the lead of the race and you know my co-commentator lost
[01:27:13.180 -> 01:27:19.040] his voice basically at the end of that so it can do good stuff I think.
[01:27:19.040 -> 01:27:25.000] Yeah and hey look we always encourage people to watch other racing series here on Missed Apex podcast
[01:27:25.000 -> 01:27:31.280] And we're proud of our own little racing serieses that we put on and of course, we've been karting at Missed Apex
[01:27:31.600 -> 01:27:33.600] sorry, we've been karting at Brighton Karting and
[01:27:34.120 -> 01:27:35.960] There'll be a video of that coming out shortly
[01:27:35.960 -> 01:27:41.320] But you can watch us iRacing with Chris Stevens as our commentator and that was all exciting
[01:27:41.320 -> 01:27:45.500] So we'll put links into the show notes below. Do you have Verstappen on that server as well?
[01:27:45.500 -> 01:27:51.500] No, because our SimRacingLeague has certain rules and codes of conduct.
[01:27:51.500 -> 01:27:52.500] Ah, okay.
[01:27:52.500 -> 01:27:56.500] We're not fans of revenge puns.
[01:27:56.500 -> 01:28:00.500] If you missed it, if you missed it, look, Max Verstappen,
[01:28:00.500 -> 01:28:04.500] I wasn't planning to talk about this at all, but he's in an endurance race,
[01:28:04.500 -> 01:28:11.100] he gets tangled with a driver, they kind of trade blows, another driver hits Verstappen
[01:28:11.100 -> 01:28:16.840] into his teammate, so Verstappen has a complete moment of red mist, and this is on the iRacing
[01:28:16.840 -> 01:28:19.620] service, and you can go look it up.
[01:28:19.620 -> 01:28:21.800] It was like Monza 21, basically, right?
[01:28:21.800 -> 01:28:25.840] We've all, oh my god, no, it was worse, It was worse than Monza, but it's in the virtual world.
[01:28:25.840 -> 01:28:26.840] But you can...
[01:28:26.840 -> 01:28:27.840] No, it's total red mist.
[01:28:27.840 -> 01:28:32.640] And what Verstappen does is, you know, comes over Radion, down the Kemmel straight, completely
[01:28:32.640 -> 01:28:40.560] skips the Le Cam Chicane, and then goes and punts the driver off, like completely deliberately,
[01:28:40.560 -> 01:28:43.920] you know, cuts the corner to gain the five places he needs to then kind of revenge punt
[01:28:43.920 -> 01:28:44.920] off.
[01:28:44.920 -> 01:28:50.000] And a lot of people are saying it's just a game, but Max Verstappen does not treat that sim racing as just a game.
[01:28:50.000 -> 01:28:58.000] He takes it very seriously, as we all do on this Apex podcast, and we try and treat it as close to real world racing as possible.
[01:28:58.000 -> 01:29:03.000] Because for us, it's a bit of, you know, it's make believe and pretend, just like anyone playing Sunday League football.
[01:29:03.000 -> 01:29:05.440] But that's what people don't get.
[01:29:05.440 -> 01:29:08.320] They think, you know, like playing the F1 2021 game.
[01:29:08.320 -> 01:29:11.080] I would say that sim racing leagues like we run
[01:29:11.080 -> 01:29:14.800] are every bit as taken seriously as a hobby
[01:29:14.800 -> 01:29:16.360] as Sunday League football
[01:29:16.360 -> 01:29:18.120] is going down to the tennis courts.
[01:29:18.120 -> 01:29:20.520] So I think all the people participating in that
[01:29:20.520 -> 01:29:23.440] would have been taking it seriously as well.
[01:29:23.440 -> 01:29:26.040] So it was a bit of a moment from Verstappen.
[01:29:26.040 -> 01:29:30.240] If you want to go and see what he's capable of, I will say it was one of the most skilful
[01:29:30.240 -> 01:29:34.880] revenge punts I've ever seen, because he had to leave the track, go across the grass and
[01:29:34.880 -> 01:29:35.880] then rejoin.
[01:29:35.880 -> 01:29:41.480] He had 30 seconds to think about it. That is what amazes me. He did it so perfectly.
[01:29:41.480 -> 01:29:46.080] But Max Verstappen's passion on the sim racing is equal to his passion, I think,
[01:29:46.080 -> 01:29:50.960] in real life racing. I don't think he sees a major difference between the two in terms of
[01:29:51.520 -> 01:29:55.040] his approach. So I'm sure some people are going to say, I mean, you only have to look at my Twitter
[01:29:55.040 -> 01:29:59.200] feed. Some people will say I have painted an unfair picture of that. But all I'll say is that
[01:29:59.200 -> 01:30:04.400] conduct wouldn't go down very well with Richard Mould and our race controller on the iRacing
[01:30:04.400 -> 01:30:05.360] series. And you can go and
[01:30:05.360 -> 01:30:11.040] check out what we do by clicking a link that Matt will handily provide in the show notes below. Thank
[01:30:11.040 -> 01:30:15.520] you for hanging out with us for this new show. You can't follow Christian Pedersen so we can just
[01:30:15.520 -> 01:30:20.800] thank him for his appearance and he's noped out of all social media. You can go follow Chris
[01:30:20.800 -> 01:30:25.200] at ChrisOnRacing on Twitter and threads, presumably.
[01:30:26.320 -> 01:30:29.920] Yeah, all on threads. Yeah, follow us all on threads. It seems to be going okay. It's nice. I
[01:30:29.920 -> 01:30:35.840] really enjoyed being on there. Follow Matt at MattPT55 everywhere and me at
[01:30:35.840 -> 01:30:39.400] SpannersReady. And I'm on the threads and the Instagram. Follow me on
[01:30:39.400 -> 01:30:43.840] Instagram, actually. I'm trying to post more on Instagram as well. And all
[01:30:43.840 -> 01:30:50.960] those links will be in the show notes. And I wasn't joking before, the patron support, patreon.com forward slash MissedApex,
[01:30:50.960 -> 01:30:57.200] is really what keeps us going. And this past week, we have had a bunch of patrons
[01:30:57.920 -> 01:31:01.280] sign up and join and support us. And I had like a real moment of,
[01:31:01.280 -> 01:31:11.840] oh, okay, okay. Because there's always a turnover. People come and go with the patrons. So that nice spike kind of really reassures us that we can keep planning into 2023,
[01:31:11.840 -> 01:31:50.000] into 2024. So patreon.com This was MrApexPodcast. ♪♪
[01:31:50.000 -> 01:31:55.000] ♪♪
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