Dutch Takeover and Canada GP Preview

Spanners and Trumpets are joined by  Dutch journalist Jules Seegers and host of the first and biggest independent Dutch F1 podcast Lucas Degens as they look at the impact of Max Verstappen on the Dutch F1 landscape and take a prowl down memory lane in anticipation of the upcoming Canadian Grand Prix. From Verstappan victorious to mature Max, from Canadian Classics to circuit confirmation bias, no groundhog goes unavoided in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast. 

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some summary

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[01:02.780 -> 01:10.480] You are listening to Miss apex podcast we live at one
[01:19.760 -> 01:25.520] welcome to missed apex podcast I'm your host, Richard Ready, but my friends call me Spanners.
[01:25.520 -> 01:31.680] So let's be friends. We've dropped in for a midweek recording to look back at some Canadian
[01:31.680 -> 01:36.800] Grand Prix memories and we'll ask what makes the Grand Prix track stand out amongst others.
[01:36.800 -> 01:44.080] And we've also drafted in a 50% Dutch panel for you today so we can zoom in on the reigning champ
[01:44.080 -> 01:46.900] and find out what people in the Netherlands really think of him
[01:46.900 -> 01:50.320] and why he is so popular amongst his fans.
[01:50.560 -> 01:56.120] We are an independent podcast produced in the podcasting shed with the kind permission of our better halves.
[01:56.120 -> 02:01.560] We aim to bring you a race review before your Monday morning commute. We might be wrong, but we're first.
[02:02.120 -> 02:11.240] be wrong, but we're first. First up is the least interesting and exciting person in this week's lineup.
[02:11.240 -> 02:13.280] It's just the normal ordinary Matt.
[02:13.280 -> 02:14.280] Two rumpets.
[02:14.280 -> 02:16.000] How's it going, Matt?
[02:16.000 -> 02:19.000] Nothing but straights, chicanes and a hairpin.
[02:19.000 -> 02:20.000] That's it.
[02:20.000 -> 02:21.000] Your favorite track.
[02:21.000 -> 02:27.000] I do like the Canadian Grand Prix, even though it's fully populated by chicanes and it would
[02:27.000 -> 02:31.000] be easy to say I was a hypocrite because I said I wanted all chicanes banned and that
[02:31.000 -> 02:33.120] seems to be what you're implying.
[02:33.120 -> 02:35.680] It would have been easy except for of course you just said it.
[02:35.680 -> 02:36.680] Curses!
[02:36.680 -> 02:38.020] He flipped it around on me.
[02:38.020 -> 02:42.340] Also joining me is the much nicer and much more favourable in my eyes Jules Segers from
[02:42.340 -> 02:43.340] the Netherlands.
[02:43.340 -> 02:44.340] Hey Jules.
[02:44.340 -> 02:45.880] Good evening guys. Hi.
[02:45.880 -> 02:51.480] Hi. And you are, it's not tokenism Jules, just because it's a Verstappen special, I
[02:51.480 -> 02:55.280] didn't just draft in the nearest Dutch people I could find.
[02:55.280 -> 02:59.040] It didn't feel like it when I was invited on, so it's all good.
[02:59.040 -> 03:03.400] Okay good. And the second nearest Dutch person I could find, I'm delighted to be joined by
[03:03.400 -> 03:08.920] the gaffer of the top Dutch language F1 podcast. It's Lucas Degen from the Race Reporter
[03:08.920 -> 03:13.000] podcast. Welcome Lucas. Hi, nice to be on your show again. Thank you.
[03:13.000 -> 03:16.720] Ah well yeah, thank you. We didn't put you off last time because sometimes,
[03:16.720 -> 03:21.200] believe it or not, the internet says that we're not always that that friendly or
[03:21.200 -> 03:26.080] praising enough of Max Verstappen. So I'm glad you could cross the water and be with us, Lucas.
[03:26.640 -> 03:28.400] Yeah, no, no, no problem.
[03:28.400 -> 03:33.840] But in honour of our half Dutch panel, let's start by talking about Supermax.
[03:41.040 -> 03:46.760] So believe it or not, I am actually not someone that specifically dislikes Max Verstappen,
[03:46.760 -> 03:47.760] I promise.
[03:47.760 -> 03:52.760] However, in the world of sport, I believe we can allow ourselves to be fans of a team
[03:52.760 -> 03:58.840] or of a particular athlete, and in the context of that, we can allow ourselves to have rivals.
[03:58.840 -> 04:01.000] Cough, Ferrari.
[04:01.000 -> 04:05.000] Your driver is always a hero, and the other driver is just a bum in a rocket ship.
[04:05.000 -> 04:12.000] And to an extent, I think we can allow ourselves that. It's a fantasy, it's part of the game, it's an escape and it's all good fun, isn't it?
[04:12.000 -> 04:18.000] To a point. And I've also accepted that, for my part, getting some heat from our Dutch friends is a part of that.
[04:18.000 -> 04:25.120] And I believe, you know, the Hamilton fans giving me grief when Hamilton was dominating is also all part of
[04:25.120 -> 04:32.720] that because on both sides of this fence one of the strangest criticisms that we've had is our
[04:32.720 -> 04:37.920] response to this kind of car domination that both Hamilton and Verstappen have enjoyed. It's not
[04:37.920 -> 04:46.400] emphatic enough for for the fans of each driver. We don't credit the driver enough for bringing home a fast car. So as
[04:46.400 -> 04:52.400] Hamilton fans, we've certainly we've had that as well. But now Verstappen fans have finally reached
[04:52.400 -> 04:58.480] the promised land. So I would like to ask you, Lucas, how does it feel for long-standing Max
[04:58.480 -> 05:06.120] Verstappen fans? The dream has been completed. You're here. It was a relatively slow journey to the top,
[05:06.120 -> 05:10.320] actually. You've had to be particularly patient, but here we are.
[05:10.320 -> 05:19.160] Here we are. Well, it's mixed feelings because yes, I'm happy and we are all happy. But
[05:19.160 -> 05:25.680] it's funny that you said so, because I think this week I was watching the first Grand Prix of Max Verstappen,
[05:25.680 -> 05:32.720] which is Toro Rosso. And it's a completely different Max Verstappen. Back then we were
[05:32.720 -> 05:38.000] still hoping and now it's, well, it's typical Dutch, like we scored the points and now we're
[05:38.000 -> 05:44.400] here and now, you know, we get a little bit of arrogant. I don't know if that's the right word.
[05:44.400 -> 05:45.640] But comfortable? we get a little bit of arrogant, I don't know if that's the right word. Comfortable?
[05:45.640 -> 05:53.920] Yeah, comfortable, and we were expecting Max to be champion in the upcoming years.
[05:53.920 -> 05:57.160] We should still feel hungry, you know what I mean?
[05:57.160 -> 06:00.520] But I'm really happy that we're here, of course, it's been wonderful.
[06:00.520 -> 06:10.000] Yeah, so Jules, was there a sense of inevitability in the that like, it was only a matter of time before Max became champion? And that's what everyone was saying,
[06:10.000 -> 06:13.440] and I was thinking like, well, it's not a foregone conclusion, but honestly, like the
[06:13.440 -> 06:19.040] Verstappen fan base, well, there was never a doubt, he's definitely a future multiple world champion.
[06:19.040 -> 06:30.240] Yeah, I think, trying to go back to the time when he was rocketed into Formula 1 in the Toro Rosso
[06:30.880 -> 06:37.440] and everybody was told like this is an exceptional talent and he's so young, you know, that was
[06:37.440 -> 06:43.200] pretty much the main reason for people to start believe like wow he's so young,
[06:43.200 -> 06:52.800] he's the youngest Formula 1 driver ever, must be special because you need to remember that for a sense of history
[06:52.800 -> 07:00.720] of the sport and some kind of reference framework, that's not really here.
[07:00.720 -> 07:03.360] We're not a big motorsport country.
[07:03.360 -> 07:08.320] So he was quickly framed as like, this is the next big thing coming.
[07:08.320 -> 07:09.320] He's exceptional.
[07:09.320 -> 07:11.000] It's something we've never seen before.
[07:11.000 -> 07:18.960] And then it was only boosted by him getting his first win in like his, not even after
[07:18.960 -> 07:25.760] a season and a half, getting that Red Bull drive and getting that first win and then from then on I think Lucas can
[07:26.800 -> 07:35.120] can underline that it's just gone crazy. It's exploded. So I think like when it's someone that
[07:35.120 -> 07:40.960] you're watching from a junior series I think British F1 fans we forget that there was actually
[07:40.960 -> 07:45.560] quite a dearth of British F1 talent for a while. So post
[07:45.560 -> 07:51.720] Damon Hill, Damon Coulthard not quite getting there, being behind Mika Häkkinen. And I
[07:51.720 -> 07:55.640] was thinking about this earlier. I think there was a time where there was a couple of seasons
[07:55.640 -> 08:02.000] with no British driver. I'm pretty sure. And I think then Anthony Davison in his BMW was
[08:02.000 -> 08:06.640] the only British driver for a season. I think. I'm gonna get fact-checked
[08:06.640 -> 08:07.640] on that for sure.
[08:07.640 -> 08:08.640] Was it a Honda?
[08:08.640 -> 08:09.640] Oh, maybe for Honda, yeah.
[08:09.640 -> 08:10.640] Yeah, Super Aguri.
[08:10.640 -> 08:15.880] Oh, Super Aguri, of course, yeah. And then when Jenson Button came in and Lewis Hamilton
[08:15.880 -> 08:19.440] came in, there was a lot of excitement. So we were keeping an eye on Lewis Hamilton coming
[08:19.440 -> 08:28.560] through F2 and or GP2, whatever it was at the time and you go yeah, there's this phenomenal Talent coming up so we weren't surprised, but I think to the non
[08:29.160 -> 08:31.280] You know Dutch audience Lucas
[08:31.280 -> 08:38.360] We were surprised when everyone was clamoring to sign a 17 year old driver and you go well what why?
[08:38.560 -> 08:52.680] Why is every wise Mercedes fighting for him? Why is Red Bull fighting for him? Well, yeah, I don't want to be arrogant, but if you watch the races of Max Verstappen at
[08:52.680 -> 08:56.800] Toro Rosso, you could see like, wow, this is really special.
[08:56.800 -> 09:04.440] Remember the drift he did at Brazil, where he, like almost the last corner, he touched
[09:04.440 -> 09:05.320] the curves.
[09:05.320 -> 09:09.920] And everybody knew that this was something special coming.
[09:09.920 -> 09:12.260] So yeah, it's a diamond.
[09:12.260 -> 09:15.720] And I love watching Max Verstappen in Estorra Rosso.
[09:15.720 -> 09:16.720] That was so special.
[09:16.720 -> 09:18.580] I really love that.
[09:18.580 -> 09:24.000] And I always said, also in my podcast, I don't care how many times she becomes world champion,
[09:24.000 -> 09:25.000] the first win
[09:25.000 -> 09:31.300] and the first championship is for me is the most special. And of course, the race in Brazil,
[09:31.300 -> 09:32.300] the rain, the rain.
[09:32.300 -> 09:34.760] Is that the one where he nearly crashed?
[09:34.760 -> 09:35.760] Yep.
[09:35.760 -> 09:41.200] Oh, right. Yeah. So yeah, he was praised for doing one of the best crash avoidances ever.
[09:41.200 -> 09:51.080] Okay, that's fine. He's undoubtedly good in the rain. But actually, Lucas, what impressed in that race was the gap between... Was it the gap between him and Daniel Ricciardo?
[09:51.080 -> 09:54.560] Like they were pretty level, then the rain came down. Oh, you don't pay attention to
[09:54.560 -> 09:55.560] that.
[09:55.560 -> 10:02.240] I just know that he overtook Rosberg on the outside and he spun and he was almost running
[10:02.240 -> 10:05.600] into the wall, then let go of the brakes and corrected.
[10:05.600 -> 10:07.080] And then he said,
[10:07.080 -> 10:09.920] yep, heartbeat went a little bit higher there.
[10:09.920 -> 10:12.400] So cool, that was like, you know,
[10:12.400 -> 10:15.280] and now actually I think he's so grown up,
[10:15.280 -> 10:18.680] he's so cool and he knows exactly what he does.
[10:18.680 -> 10:22.280] What was the last time Max Verstappen made a mistake?
[10:22.280 -> 10:23.120] I don't even remember.
[10:23.120 -> 10:27.200] Hungary last year, that's definitely the last, but did you know how he corrected that?
[10:28.720 -> 10:30.320] Straight out and back out. Jules?
[10:30.880 -> 10:40.000] Yeah, I remember I had to write a piece on him when it was announced that he was going to be
[10:40.000 -> 10:47.760] picked up by Red Bull and going to be driving Formula One at 16 years old. And I pulled
[10:47.760 -> 10:55.180] a parallel between how his father Jos Stoppen entered Formula One in a top team, but also
[10:55.180 -> 11:09.000] had test drives for McLaren, among others. And so that aspect of him being the son of Jos, people kind of knew that he had been doing
[11:09.000 -> 11:12.680] great in the karting series.
[11:12.680 -> 11:16.880] That brought something special as well, you know, because Jos Verstappen was the guy who
[11:16.880 -> 11:21.360] put Formula One back on the map in the Netherlands.
[11:21.360 -> 11:31.280] It waned a bit after that, but you know, that aspect of the Max Verstappen story definitely contributed to at least here,
[11:31.280 -> 11:34.360] you know, it became a thing quite quickly.
[11:34.360 -> 11:35.360] Matt.
[11:35.360 -> 11:41.620] Well, the interesting thing to me is to see the fact that, to my memory, when Max came
[11:41.620 -> 11:46.160] into the sport, he was the first person I saw come into the sport
[11:46.160 -> 11:53.760] since Hamilton with that kind of a fanfare around him. And so if you just go back and look at his
[11:53.760 -> 12:01.280] junior record, you can see why people were excited about him, given the amount of wins that he had
[12:01.280 -> 12:06.320] for the number of races that he did. But the big difference here is that he
[12:06.320 -> 12:10.720] came into the sport, and I think this is really to his credit, he came into the sport with a lot
[12:10.720 -> 12:16.800] of hype, but with almost no testing relative to what Hamilton was able to get when he came in.
[12:16.800 -> 12:22.960] Now we all know Hamilton came in after that glorious drive from the back that riveted
[12:22.960 -> 12:27.000] everybody in the F1 paddock as he made it in GP2, as you mentioned there, Spanners.
[12:27.000 -> 12:48.100] But for Max to come in and walk into a sure at all because I felt like the hype train was
[12:48.320 -> 12:53.520] Clouding up the reality, but no he absolutely absolutely delivered on it
[12:53.560 -> 12:55.880] So there's there's a couple of things where?
[12:56.440 -> 13:01.840] That demonstrate how good the stappan was when he came in and actually how good Leclerc is but?
[13:02.280 -> 13:05.680] People were saying if a 17 year old can drive an F1 car,
[13:05.680 -> 13:11.440] F1 cars must be super easy to drive. And the remedy to that would be, okay, cool,
[13:11.440 -> 13:17.120] let's get all the 17 year olds in F3 and let's just stick them in F1 cars now and see if that's
[13:17.120 -> 13:22.160] good. And there was a similar one with Leclerc who drove one-handed while trying to fix his mirror
[13:22.160 -> 13:26.000] around 130R at Suzuka and everyone, oh, it's so easy,
[13:26.000 -> 13:31.200] you can drive one-handed. No, Leclerc can drive one-handed, you can't. Lukas?
[13:31.200 -> 13:37.520] Well, actually, it reminds me of, I met the grandfather, the father of Jos Verstappen,
[13:37.520 -> 13:48.600] I meant the grandfather of Max Verstappen in Montfort. He had a small ice company, what is called ice cream store.
[13:48.600 -> 13:52.980] And I was sitting with him outside having an ice cream.
[13:52.980 -> 13:57.840] And actually he wasn't convinced about how it would end up.
[13:57.840 -> 14:07.960] He said, well, I know what the press were going to say because for years the Dutch press was really hard on Jos Verstappen when he ended
[14:07.960 -> 14:12.940] up in the grid and the grint we call in Dutch, what is called the gravel.
[14:12.940 -> 14:19.180] So his granddad was so insecure about the talent of Max because he said, well, because
[14:19.180 -> 14:20.500] of the pressure he felt.
[14:20.500 -> 14:23.860] And I said, no, no, come on, Max is so great.
[14:23.860 -> 14:25.520] It's going to be fine. But I
[14:25.520 -> 14:33.480] can still feel his insecurity because of all the press they put on Jos. That was actually
[14:33.480 -> 14:34.880] kind of sad to see.
[14:34.880 -> 14:40.680] Oh, we never saw that perspective. So Jos Verstappen, from our perspective, from a non-Dutch
[14:40.680 -> 14:45.040] perspective, you know, he was a good midfield driver, probably though
[14:45.040 -> 14:50.000] most famous for that explosion picture where the fuel pump was, you know, half off
[14:50.000 -> 14:55.160] and he had that spectacular pit lane explosion. But he never set like the F1 world
[14:55.160 -> 14:59.520] alight, but yet he's such a powerful figure now, it seems, going forward in F1
[14:59.520 -> 15:03.160] as a, almost like as a manager. He's like a huge influence in F1.
[15:03.160 -> 15:07.500] Yeah, but you gotta know that Dutch people are very, very critical.
[15:07.500 -> 15:08.500] No.
[15:08.500 -> 15:10.000] Am I, is that, is...
[15:10.000 -> 15:12.500] Do you know what, Lucas, I am learning that.
[15:12.500 -> 15:16.000] Over the last few years I have, I have learned that.
[15:16.000 -> 15:19.500] You're very direct as a people to be, is that fair? Is that fair?
[15:19.500 -> 15:21.000] Yeah, yeah, true.
[15:21.000 -> 15:23.500] But look, look, you guys have gone through that journey.
[15:23.500 -> 15:29.080] I'm glad we had a little bit of a reminisce because it's easy to forget how young he came
[15:29.080 -> 15:31.880] in and people say, well, he's still young.
[15:31.880 -> 15:32.880] He's still a kid.
[15:32.880 -> 15:37.400] But he has actually been in F1 for, what, is this seven seasons?
[15:37.400 -> 15:38.400] I think.
[15:38.400 -> 15:39.400] Someone do some maths for us.
[15:39.400 -> 15:40.880] But it's been a long, you know, it's been a-
[15:40.880 -> 15:42.880] He started at 15, so it's eight years?
[15:42.880 -> 15:43.880] Eight years.
[15:43.880 -> 15:46.440] So he's been eight seasons in Formula One.
[15:46.440 -> 15:50.640] For example, if you're a Hamilton fan, you had to wait one year for a title fighting
[15:50.640 -> 15:52.760] season, straight away.
[15:52.760 -> 15:55.520] 2007, he was right in there fighting for the title.
[15:55.520 -> 15:58.160] Then 2008, bam, he gets that.
[15:58.160 -> 16:03.480] But he could easily have gone through 2007, 2008 without a title, and then you'd have
[16:03.480 -> 16:05.000] had some wilderness years
[16:05.000 -> 16:09.200] scrapping around and then the the build-up year with Mercedes and that's
[16:09.200 -> 16:13.920] kind of what Verstappen fans have had to to wait for but the question I want to
[16:13.920 -> 16:18.680] post you now is now that we're here now that we're in the the promised land
[16:18.680 -> 16:24.200] does the Verstappen fan base feel the pressure that I think Hamilton fans have
[16:24.200 -> 16:25.200] had to do, had
[16:25.200 -> 16:32.480] over the years as well, which is how do you justify your driver's performance in a dominant
[16:32.480 -> 16:38.960] car where perhaps you don't have to push, you don't have to do that last 10% and you
[16:38.960 -> 16:43.700] have people going, well, the Red Bull is an absolute rocket ship and F1 has always been
[16:43.700 -> 16:45.200] to some extent, the car.
[16:45.920 -> 16:50.480] It doesn't mean Max isn't driving well or pushing. Is there any kind of... is there a
[16:50.480 -> 16:55.280] dissatisfaction amongst the fan base with that kind of advantage, or is it all just
[16:55.280 -> 16:58.960] windmills and tulips? Well, we can put that to anyone. Jules?
[16:59.520 -> 17:09.000] Yep. I think, as Lucas mentioned earlier, the word might not be arrogance or more used to max winning.
[17:09.000 -> 17:21.000] And I feel, but that's just me going on what I see on social media, in the regular media,
[17:21.000 -> 17:27.040] some kind of cetacean, is that the word?
[17:27.040 -> 17:29.080] Like you're satirized, you're...
[17:29.080 -> 17:30.080] Oh yeah, satiation.
[17:30.080 -> 17:31.080] Satiation.
[17:31.080 -> 17:32.080] Like filled with the accomplishments.
[17:32.080 -> 17:33.080] Satiation.
[17:33.080 -> 17:34.080] Yeah.
[17:34.080 -> 17:41.400] And that's what you kind of sense.
[17:41.400 -> 17:46.000] It's becoming the norm, like it's normal that Max is winning now.
[17:46.200 -> 17:50.600] And I'm afraid Maria and LiveChat just asked,
[17:50.800 -> 17:56.760] like, how many of the Dutch Formula One viewers would you reckon would drop out
[17:56.960 -> 17:59.320] if Max would quit or wouldn't win anymore?
[17:59.520 -> 18:06.160] And I think a vast amount of them would lose interest in the sport if there's not a Dutch
[18:06.160 -> 18:11.600] driver or a Dutch successful driver.
[18:11.600 -> 18:27.780] But still, despite this dissociation, the minute when Hamilton starts to become a rival again or starts matching him, like we saw in Spain the other day,
[18:28.820 -> 18:33.580] you immediately sense this old rivalry firing up
[18:33.580 -> 18:38.580] on the socials in the tone or voice of the TV commentators.
[18:38.580 -> 18:40.220] Even Horner, even Horner as well.
[18:40.220 -> 18:41.060] You can just, a little different.
[18:41.060 -> 18:44.660] Yeah, you immediately sense like everyone can be fast,
[18:44.660 -> 18:50.320] but if Hamilton's fast, they, you immediately sense like everyone can be fast, but if Hamilton's fast, he gets
[18:50.320 -> 18:51.320] special treatment.
[18:51.320 -> 18:52.320] Matt?
[18:52.320 -> 18:57.200] Well, I wanted to ask this question because I think it wouldn't be surprising if I said,
[18:57.200 -> 19:03.600] well, you know, if for any driver of nationality to win a lot of championships and then leave
[19:03.600 -> 19:05.920] the sport, a certain number of people
[19:05.920 -> 19:10.160] will leave with that driver because they were only there because they were supporting them
[19:10.160 -> 19:17.520] for national reasons. But I'm curious, do you think Formula One could do anything to help sort
[19:17.520 -> 19:24.400] of convert some of those Max Only fans into general Formula One fans? Is this a special
[19:24.400 -> 19:26.160] Dutch problem or do you think it's
[19:26.160 -> 19:28.400] just always going to be that way no matter what?
[19:28.400 -> 19:31.080] Lukas, oh, Jules gone, sorry.
[19:31.080 -> 19:40.880] Oh yes. I think what you saw in Germany when Michael Schumacher quit, I think you'd see
[19:40.880 -> 19:48.160] a similar kind of thing when Max or Senna as well would quit.
[19:48.800 -> 19:57.520] Still, I think the way Formula One is covered in the media, how it has conquered a spot within the
[19:57.520 -> 20:07.520] sports pages, how it's become a topic on social media, in talk shows, definitely a part of those fans would stick
[20:07.520 -> 20:13.360] around because, you know, it's one thing entering the sport because of Max Verstappen, but I'm
[20:13.360 -> 20:16.900] positive Dutch are sports lovers.
[20:16.900 -> 20:18.280] They love sports.
[20:18.280 -> 20:23.840] They love to feast because of sports to become a following.
[20:23.840 -> 20:27.360] So yeah, I'm convinced some of them would stick.
[20:27.360 -> 20:36.400] Definitely. Lucas. Yeah, well, it's true. We love football. We love cycling to the France. We love
[20:36.400 -> 20:44.720] ice skating. But actually, I think there are three or four Formula One fans, the real Formula One fan,
[20:47.160 -> 20:54.000] There are three or four Formula One fans, the real Formula One fan, the Max Stoppard fans that if Max Stoppard leaves, then they will leave, and the drive to survive.
[20:54.000 -> 21:01.800] So I went to Spa-Francorchamps for years, and I could see and feel like the new Max
[21:01.800 -> 21:06.760] Stoppard fans were coming, and I would call them the football fans that started watching Formula One.
[21:06.760 -> 21:08.080] And I didn't like that actually,
[21:08.080 -> 21:10.280] because they didn't know anything about Formula One.
[21:10.280 -> 21:12.840] They didn't even know what a yellow flag was.
[21:12.840 -> 21:16.360] So I hope we can convert them to Formula One fans.
[21:16.360 -> 21:18.380] But on the other hand, if they leave,
[21:18.380 -> 21:21.840] I actually wouldn't mind, if you know what I mean.
[21:21.840 -> 21:25.480] So are we talking about the flares?
[21:25.480 -> 21:27.480] Is that part of it?
[21:27.480 -> 21:29.480] Yeah, and the beer drinking.
[21:29.480 -> 21:32.480] Yeah, whoa, let's go easy on the beer drinking.
[21:32.480 -> 21:34.480] No, but you know what I mean.
[21:34.480 -> 21:38.480] We love this sport and we watch it and we talk about it in a podcast,
[21:38.480 -> 21:42.480] but there are so many people that don't know anything about Formula 1
[21:42.480 -> 21:45.120] and they're just a fan because of Max.
[21:47.680 -> 21:48.320] Which is fine, but yeah.
[21:51.600 -> 21:53.440] Yeah, but I think that's also with Senna and Schumacher. I think that's not typical Dutch.
[21:53.440 -> 21:55.920] So we don't want to gatekeep.
[21:55.920 -> 22:00.960] I think all fans are welcome in our house as long as you take your shoes off and wash
[22:00.960 -> 22:03.360] your hands before dinner, that's all good.
[22:03.360 -> 22:09.680] And maybe park the flares every now and then. So yeah, it's inevitable that, you know, like the German
[22:09.680 -> 22:17.080] fan base seemed to disappear when Schumacher left and, you know, and was failed to be recaptured
[22:17.080 -> 22:22.000] by Vettel. And I'm sure every nation would, you know, just have that kind of sporting
[22:22.000 -> 22:25.620] default when you've got an athlete of yours doing incredibly well,
[22:25.620 -> 22:26.780] you suddenly get into it.
[22:26.780 -> 22:30.580] My goodness, it happens all the time in the Olympics.
[22:30.580 -> 22:32.620] Are we a big ski jumping nation?
[22:32.620 -> 22:35.240] No, but when Eddie the Eagle Edwards
[22:35.240 -> 22:39.080] was there doing ski jump four years in, four years out,
[22:39.080 -> 22:40.000] you know, we supported him.
[22:40.000 -> 22:42.100] So it's not rare for a fan base
[22:42.100 -> 22:44.300] to jump behind a particular athlete.
[22:44.300 -> 22:46.320] So I think that's okay.
[22:46.320 -> 22:49.920] So I'm definitely not gatekeeping that. And to an extent, like certainly if Lewis Hamilton
[22:49.920 -> 22:53.940] quits, there will certainly be a huge chunk of people who were only really interested
[22:53.940 -> 23:00.480] in Lewis Hamilton doing well. So I'm sure that's fine. But you will now have to deal
[23:00.480 -> 23:05.760] as a fan base, Lucas, and I'm making you a representative of all Verstappen fans,
[23:06.560 -> 23:11.120] you're now having to kind of deal with like a lot of, you know, stuff that an incumbent champion
[23:11.680 -> 23:16.960] deals with. So I did notice that he got accused of tax evasion. So, you know, welcome to the club,
[23:16.960 -> 23:21.840] Hamilton fans have had to deal with that for a long time. But yeah, obviously, that's the price
[23:21.840 -> 23:30.480] of finally reaching the pinnacle, the mountain. I just wanted to ask you from the other side, to Jules and Lucas, how is Hamilton seen in
[23:30.480 -> 23:33.560] the Netherlands generally?
[23:33.560 -> 23:38.080] Is he the Darth Vader that I always thought that Schumacher was?
[23:38.080 -> 23:39.560] What do you mean with Darth Vader?
[23:39.560 -> 23:40.680] You know, like the big bad.
[23:40.680 -> 23:42.960] Is he like the big enemy of the sport?
[23:42.960 -> 23:43.960] No.
[23:43.960 -> 23:44.960] Oh, you mean like...
[23:44.960 -> 23:46.320] Like the pantomime villain?
[23:46.960 -> 23:53.600] Well, if I may begin, a yes and no. When I was in Zandvoort, the first time I was in Zandvoort,
[23:53.600 -> 24:07.440] people were clapping and paying respect to Lewis, because you can't have not respect for someone that's seven time world champion or seven and a half.
[24:07.440 -> 24:15.000] But personally, I love the Lewis in the McLaren and not the Lewis in the Mercedes because
[24:15.000 -> 24:19.400] I sometimes I think, man, come on, stop crying on the radio.
[24:19.400 -> 24:20.640] But that's just personal.
[24:20.640 -> 24:22.880] No, I think the Dutch really respect him.
[24:22.880 -> 24:25.080] But there's also people that,
[24:25.080 -> 24:26.080] like every time he says,
[24:26.080 -> 24:29.240] this is the best crowd on the planet,
[24:29.240 -> 24:30.840] Twitter blows up.
[24:30.840 -> 24:32.800] Like, you know, so I don't know.
[24:32.800 -> 24:34.040] Maybe he just means it.
[24:34.040 -> 24:36.640] Maybe each time he loves the crowd increasingly.
[24:36.640 -> 24:38.880] All right, let's go to some of the Twitter responses, guys.
[24:38.880 -> 24:41.560] So, open to all, I've categorized this.
[24:41.560 -> 24:44.800] I asked on Twitter, if you're a Max Verstappen fan,
[24:44.800 -> 24:45.480] what do you love about Verstappen fan, what do you
[24:45.480 -> 24:50.600] love about Verstappen? And we had way more responses than I thought I would get. And
[24:50.600 -> 24:55.420] if you're a Verstappen fan who tunes into Miss Tapex, thank you. Thank you for putting
[24:55.420 -> 24:56.620] up with me, I guess.
[24:56.620 -> 25:04.520] So one big part was aggression. So we had Eric, Mimi, Jordi, Ian, and Sikiwe getting
[25:04.520 -> 25:06.300] in touch and saying, well, Eric says, I like Sukiwi getting in touch and saying well Eric says I like
[25:06.300 -> 25:10.780] his aggressive style he's not afraid of going after the the king I respect Lewis
[25:10.780 -> 25:15.120] but he went after him and now it's his aggressive consistency willing to take
[25:15.120 -> 25:18.960] risks and not making mistakes Mimi I'm a big fan of aggressive wheel-to-wheel
[25:18.960 -> 25:24.960] racing that's what attracted me to Max. Jordi, Max is entertaining to watch isn't
[25:24.960 -> 25:26.080] afraid to go to
[25:26.080 -> 25:35.280] the limits. Ian Turner cheekily says his ability to withstand 51g and Suikaku says he's always
[25:35.280 -> 25:40.160] honest. No BS, understated sense of humor, an amazing racer that goes to the maximum.
[25:40.880 -> 25:46.240] This is it Jules though isn't it? This has been the definition of Max Verstappen.
[25:46.240 -> 25:50.880] He came into a gentleman's sport and ruffled feathers immediately.
[25:50.880 -> 26:01.320] True. He felt like he was inadjusted, like socially. I don't know the exact English word
[26:01.320 -> 26:06.480] for that, but like he didn't say the things that we are all used to
[26:06.480 -> 26:12.720] Formula One drivers say, you know, like the appropriate things, the conventional stuff.
[26:13.360 -> 26:27.360] He was a unique individual, it seemed, even at that age. So that went for the things he said, the things he said on team radio, the
[26:27.360 -> 26:33.320] way he took on Carlos Sainz while being a rookie.
[26:33.320 -> 26:42.240] And you know, it transcended to his driving style. You know, we all know there are rules
[26:42.240 -> 26:46.480] brought into the sport, regulations, because of Max's driving. And
[26:47.440 -> 26:55.360] I think a part of Formula One viewers or fans think he's too much, he's over the top with that,
[26:55.360 -> 27:00.960] but a lot of Formula One fans like that, you know, that, that, that, that, that,
[27:02.480 -> 27:06.000] how do you say this? Pure way way of driving. Relentless.
[27:06.000 -> 27:09.600] Relentless. That's true, Matt. Relentless is a fair word.
[27:09.600 -> 27:15.600] Well, sort of what I love about this, and to me, like what Jules just said there,
[27:15.600 -> 27:20.800] this is like the classic reason people say they liked Kemi Reikkonen, for example.
[27:20.800 -> 27:22.800] He just said things.
[27:22.800 -> 27:25.380] They weren't the correct things, they weren't the incorrect things,
[27:25.380 -> 27:27.080] it was literally like what he was going to do
[27:27.080 -> 27:28.360] the next second, it didn't matter,
[27:28.360 -> 27:31.000] people liked it, because it was just different
[27:31.000 -> 27:35.200] to your standard sort of, apologies to Chris Stevens here,
[27:35.200 -> 27:38.560] sort of PR speak that the drivers tend to be programmed with
[27:38.560 -> 27:42.560] when they get sent out to the media bullpens and whatnot.
[27:42.560 -> 27:47.680] But your comment about his driving, I also love. I said this about Alonzo,
[27:47.680 -> 27:57.680] too. He has a certain ability to find the legal limit of rules that most people wouldn't think to
[27:57.680 -> 28:02.720] explore. And I'm going to bring the sport of hockey into this briefly. There was a player,
[28:02.720 -> 28:06.800] I think for the Rangers, who got an entire rule
[28:06.800 -> 28:08.860] written for him because he realized there was no rule
[28:08.860 -> 28:11.000] against standing directly in front of the goalie
[28:11.000 -> 28:12.700] and literally just smacking him in the head
[28:12.700 -> 28:14.660] with a stick or something like that.
[28:14.660 -> 28:16.720] And he did this in a game, the Rangers won it,
[28:16.720 -> 28:19.200] and then they immediately changed the rule
[28:19.200 -> 28:21.040] to keep any player from ever doing it again.
[28:21.040 -> 28:22.920] And his genius was he just realized,
[28:22.920 -> 28:24.760] oh, well I can actually do this,
[28:24.760 -> 28:26.760] and it's gonna make it a lot easier for my team to win.
[28:26.760 -> 28:29.200] Like that NASCAR guy that did the wall run
[28:29.200 -> 28:30.040] towards the end of the race.
[28:30.040 -> 28:31.600] Yeah, exactly.
[28:31.600 -> 28:32.440] Lucas.
[28:32.440 -> 28:34.040] I have another example.
[28:34.040 -> 28:37.240] Silverstone 1999, Schumacher.
[28:37.240 -> 28:39.560] He got the black flag, or the black and white,
[28:39.560 -> 28:42.600] or the whatever, and he just finished the race
[28:42.600 -> 28:44.440] in the pit stop. In the pit lane, yes.
[28:44.440 -> 28:45.440] That was amazing.
[28:45.440 -> 28:48.800] And that's, I think, the exact example.
[28:48.960 -> 28:51.320] OK, but does Verstappen go too far?
[28:51.320 -> 28:57.040] Because in his youth, in his build up, he was happy to hit his own teammate in China.
[28:57.200 -> 28:59.400] He was happy to run roughshod over people.
[28:59.400 -> 29:02.320] He was happy to cut in front of Riccardo at Baku.
[29:02.440 -> 29:05.600] Did you guys, as fans, did you ever think,
[29:05.600 -> 29:07.880] oh, come on, Max, you're going too far there?
[29:07.880 -> 29:08.700] Jules.
[29:08.700 -> 29:10.320] Definitely, definitely.
[29:10.320 -> 29:12.640] Yeah, I know Jules will agree.
[29:12.640 -> 29:15.620] Go on, you go first, Jules, then Lucas can make the case.
[29:15.620 -> 29:16.720] No, definitely.
[29:17.880 -> 29:22.840] I think we all know the examples of when Max would,
[29:22.840 -> 29:30.000] in my opinion, go too far. Brazil, when he drove Hamilton off the track,
[29:30.000 -> 29:37.840] and that was not the only time, but also, you know, other examples of him being so unadapted,
[29:38.560 -> 29:50.740] which was the word I was looking for, and relentless that you can't demand people to leave you space or create space
[29:50.740 -> 29:55.360] for you and not think that goes the other way around.
[29:55.360 -> 29:59.560] And that's where he crosses the line for me.
[29:59.560 -> 30:09.480] Well, I think you need to cross the line to know where the line is. And the only thing I really didn't like was Brazil last year with Perez.
[30:09.480 -> 30:10.480] Come on.
[30:10.480 -> 30:11.480] Oh, not lane.
[30:11.480 -> 30:12.480] You're driving as a team.
[30:12.480 -> 30:13.480] Yes, yeah, yeah.
[30:13.480 -> 30:16.280] For points, but besides from that, I agree.
[30:16.280 -> 30:19.040] But this is Formula One and we're not friends.
[30:19.040 -> 30:20.040] It's a fight.
[30:20.040 -> 30:22.000] It's like gladiators.
[30:22.000 -> 30:24.000] So yeah, sometimes, yeah.
[30:24.000 -> 30:25.440] Go on, Jules, it's racing.
[30:26.160 -> 30:31.920] But then, on the other hand, somewhere you have to admire him for that, because,
[30:32.640 -> 30:42.160] you know, Michael Schumacher, Ayrton Senna, even Seb Vettel, multi-21, you need these villain-esque
[30:53.360 -> 30:54.360] these villain-esque behaviors that make you stand out, that apparently often create the world champions.
[30:54.360 -> 30:55.360] True.
[30:55.360 -> 30:56.780] One small thing.
[30:56.780 -> 31:02.320] I think that Russell is acting to be like that, because he used to be really nice in
[31:02.320 -> 31:05.200] Williams, but now he's thinking like, oh I have to be a
[31:11.840 -> 31:12.480] like Max calls him a d-head. I think that's what Russell is trying to do now like, okay let's
[31:16.880 -> 31:22.240] use the elbows and then I'm gonna be champion. Russell is a hundred percent he is in that mode. He's fooled everyone with his British plumbiness like, oh let's go for a lovely drive in the race
[31:22.240 -> 31:25.680] cars. Oh dear I seem to have slammed Bottas into a wall.
[31:25.680 -> 31:27.680] I'll just touch his helmet to make sure he's okay.
[31:27.680 -> 31:30.960] Yeah, but no, Russell is an absolute weapon.
[31:30.960 -> 31:33.840] Absolutely, trust me, he is definitely, definitely in that vein.
[31:33.840 -> 31:35.360] And actually listening to this, you know,
[31:36.320 -> 31:39.280] I think a lot of Hamilton fans are often disappointed
[31:39.280 -> 31:44.080] that older Lewis Hamilton doesn't leave a foot in like he used to.
[31:44.080 -> 31:46.320] So like Hamilton definitely went through
[31:46.320 -> 31:51.920] this phase where he was a menace, not so much in the championship early fighting years,
[31:51.920 -> 31:57.480] but then subsequently 2009, particularly 2011, he seemed to... he was hitting everyone. He
[31:57.480 -> 32:02.960] was hitting Maldonado, he seemed to hit Massa seven times a race, and he definitely went
[32:02.960 -> 32:05.080] through that phase. And I think he copped an
[32:05.080 -> 32:10.240] awful lot of criticism for that kind of heart on the sleeve driving and it was almost like
[32:10.240 -> 32:15.720] he took it personally and now he really goes out of his way. Now he's probably one of the
[32:15.720 -> 32:20.160] cleanest drivers on the grid, he never wants to get in any confrontation, especially on
[32:20.160 -> 32:27.280] lap one, you know, we'll do thereward calculation and be on the cautious side, let someone through.
[32:27.280 -> 32:34.880] And as Hamilton fans, we sometimes can find that frustrating. So you do want that in a
[32:34.880 -> 32:40.320] racer, but Verstappen, I think, just took it to the extreme, Matt. But my criticism
[32:40.320 -> 32:45.520] was never for Max doing that. It was always that the stewards allowed it. But
[32:45.520 -> 32:49.840] I just feel like the rest of the grid took a really long time to catch up and go, look,
[32:49.840 -> 32:53.200] if Max is allowed to do that, you're allowed to do that as well.
[32:53.200 -> 32:59.040] Well, yeah. And I honestly, I love the fact, and I've made this point before, that if you
[32:59.040 -> 33:06.640] want to win a race, never mind win a world championship. You have to, when you are in competition,
[33:06.640 -> 33:13.280] you have to have the mind of an absolute killer, of a mob boss. You have to be the Pablo Escobar
[33:13.280 -> 33:18.840] of the Pelotons. It's Lucas brought up cycling. I'm watching this great documentary on Netflix,
[33:18.840 -> 33:24.000] sort of their drive to survive for the Tour de France. And it made me think of Lance Armstrong,
[33:24.000 -> 33:25.120] of course, disgraced for doping,
[33:25.120 -> 33:30.480] which everybody was doing. But there was a moment where he was racing his pure rival, Jan Ulrich.
[33:30.480 -> 33:37.520] They really were very evenly matched. And they're halfway up some just brutal climb. And Lance turns
[33:37.520 -> 33:43.200] around and looks at Jan. And it's called the look. You can go Google it right now. He looks at him.
[33:43.200 -> 33:45.440] You can see he smells blood.
[33:45.440 -> 33:49.160] He senses weakness, and he turns around and just rides away from him.
[33:49.160 -> 33:51.440] He's like, I don't care how much is going to hurt me.
[33:51.440 -> 33:52.880] It's going to hurt you more.
[33:52.880 -> 33:54.360] Therefore I'm going to do it.
[33:54.360 -> 34:00.360] And I love the idea that we project onto these people in in these arenas with these artificial
[34:00.360 -> 34:06.200] rules, our ideas of civility and how people should behave. But if you want
[34:06.200 -> 34:11.680] to win, and, you know, I think we have our own missed apex equivalent and Brad sometimes,
[34:11.680 -> 34:16.440] you have to really be willing to find the very edge of the rules and do things that
[34:16.440 -> 34:22.480] are well, let's just use the color gray perhaps to represent.
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[36:32.240 -> 36:39.640] When Hamilton and Verstappen kind of met, they met at different points in their career. So maybe they met in 2021 with Hamilton just like still great, but just past like his maximum
[36:39.640 -> 36:46.480] maximum peak, just ages a thing, no one at me. and Verstappen still on his way up, his peak yet
[36:46.480 -> 36:52.540] to find. But they met at a time where Hamilton had spent years giving Verstappen room because
[36:52.540 -> 36:57.920] he wasn't a title rival. And then when it was a real title fight, he still did that.
[36:57.920 -> 37:02.000] And that was disappointing. There should have been times where Hamilton should have stuck
[37:02.000 -> 37:09.160] his nose in, left his foot in, or just let Max hit him. Like imagine Brazil, that was 2021, wasn't it? With the turn
[37:09.160 -> 37:14.520] four, just let them race. What do you think, Lucas? If one of those occasions, even in
[37:14.520 -> 37:20.480] Abu Dhabi, what if Hamilton had just stood his ground and just let Verstappen hit him?
[37:20.480 -> 37:26.220] First of all, when I go back to Imola in the rain, the first lap, I still can't believe
[37:26.220 -> 37:29.240] that Lewis didn't hit Max over there.
[37:29.240 -> 37:30.240] And I don't care.
[37:30.240 -> 37:31.240] Let him hit him.
[37:31.240 -> 37:34.860] Just like Baku, Daniel and Max, I enjoyed it.
[37:34.860 -> 37:36.540] That's what I'm watching Formula One for.
[37:36.540 -> 37:38.160] I'm watching a show.
[37:38.160 -> 37:40.000] I actually don't care who wins.
[37:40.000 -> 37:41.680] It's a good show.
[37:41.680 -> 37:46.100] And actually, just to think, not too much from a Hamilton perspective,
[37:46.100 -> 37:51.440] even when Hamilton was battling Rosberg, we were on this podcast or earlier version of
[37:51.440 -> 37:56.580] it, Matt, and we were saying, we wish Rosberg would just hold his ground because Hamilton
[37:56.580 -> 37:58.840] just kept running him off the track.
[37:58.840 -> 37:59.840] Yeah.
[37:59.840 -> 38:01.640] Well, and this is the thing.
[38:01.640 -> 38:05.200] This is what that sort of behavior counts on, is accommodation from
[38:05.200 -> 38:06.200] the other writer.
[38:06.200 -> 38:07.200] And I love it.
[38:07.200 -> 38:12.040] And this is the thing about Formula One and about all sports, at that moment, it's an
[38:12.040 -> 38:15.580] extremely high stakes game of poker.
[38:15.580 -> 38:20.520] Each side has made a bet, and you either go all in or you fold.
[38:20.520 -> 38:21.520] All right.
[38:21.520 -> 38:23.120] I have a small question.
[38:23.120 -> 38:27.520] Adelaide, 1994. Geres, 1997.
[38:27.520 -> 38:29.040] Is that what we want?
[38:29.040 -> 38:33.640] Schumacher driving into Damon Hill, driving into Jacques Villeneuve?
[38:33.640 -> 38:37.440] Because that's, that's, that's, that's for me, that's over the edge.
[38:37.440 -> 38:38.440] That's a stewarding issue.
[38:38.440 -> 38:41.080] But maybe, maybe that's, we shouldn't get into it.
[38:41.080 -> 38:42.440] No, let's get into it.
[38:42.440 -> 38:45.440] No, you can't bring up 94 without me getting into it.
[38:45.440 -> 38:52.240] Where is, where does it end? This is my question. I'll be honest with you, Lucas, right? Abu Dhabi
[38:52.240 -> 39:00.560] 2021, the hurt of that is somewhat like muted by the fact that I was still mad about 94.
[39:01.200 -> 39:05.200] Like I still hadn't got over that. And you go, that's just a stewarding issue. So they got the
[39:05.200 -> 39:10.480] stewarding wrong. The Schumacher should have just been disqualified from the race and the championship,
[39:10.480 -> 39:16.480] to be honest. But that did happen in 97. It's easier to disqualify someone from second than it
[39:16.480 -> 39:20.560] is from first place. That's all I'll say. So you're right, I shouldn't get into it. What I should do
[39:20.560 -> 39:28.320] is get back to these great tweets about why people like Verstappen and then we're going to move on to looking at Canada very shortly.
[39:28.320 -> 39:32.840] Kyle says, or Kale says, he just loves racing more than anyone on the grid.
[39:32.840 -> 39:36.400] He wakes up, he goes sim racing, race weekend, he goes home, he plays on the sim again, he
[39:36.400 -> 39:42.120] enjoys it so much and he's the reason I started watching in 2017 and I have been a fan since.
[39:42.120 -> 39:45.000] And Lucas, I gather you're not a fan of the Sims?
[39:45.000 -> 39:46.000] I do Sim racing.
[39:46.000 -> 39:48.000] No, no, of him Sim racing, of Max Simming.
[39:48.000 -> 39:50.000] Yeah, what's wrong with that? I like it.
[39:50.000 -> 39:55.000] Oh, okay, good. Yeah, but he does seem to like literally eat and sleep and breathe racing.
[39:55.000 -> 40:06.000] Yeah, well, he's still young. Let him be a kid also. Like, have a parallel life. Like, be still, be young and, you know, that's okay.
[40:06.000 -> 40:10.880] His outright speed appeals to me, says Neil. The moment he got into F1, I'm an old dude
[40:10.880 -> 40:14.840] who's watched a lot of amazing drivers, but Max has the ability to put the car where the
[40:14.840 -> 40:19.400] car wants to be, and that's not always the perfect racing line. He seems to just find
[40:19.400 -> 40:29.960] the speed. Reminds me a lot of Michael Schumacher. So here's a question I'll put to you guys. When it comes to this, that Neil has pointed out, just pure out-and-out speed,
[40:29.960 -> 40:36.360] I do feel that Formula One's drivers aren't on the same out-and-out quality
[40:36.360 -> 40:43.720] of field that, say, soccer is at, or professional 100-meter sprint. So they
[40:43.720 -> 40:47.520] are sports where there's a high participation and you've
[40:47.520 -> 40:51.840] pretty much narrowed down to the best that a human being can do and you have really competitive
[40:51.840 -> 40:57.120] fields. I don't think we've got 20 drivers on the same level, the gap is actually quite big.
[40:57.120 -> 41:04.480] Who's on the Verstappen level of out and out speed? Let's go with Jules. I'm assuming you
[41:04.480 -> 41:06.320] agree Verstappen is that top level of the
[41:06.320 -> 41:12.160] current field of speed. Who else is at that level? I fully agree. I'd say only three drivers,
[41:12.800 -> 41:27.280] him, Hamilton and Alonso. And some might find Alonso arguable, and I could agree with that as well. But apart from that, I think there's a pretty large gap
[41:27.900 -> 41:30.300] to a bunch of them.
[41:30.300 -> 41:32.820] And then you have like the bottom.
[41:32.820 -> 41:34.780] So I think a lot of people would put Leclerc in that
[41:34.780 -> 41:37.140] if we're saying that, you know, that top four,
[41:37.140 -> 41:40.660] but that does mean there is room for a driver to stand out.
[41:40.660 -> 41:41.860] So for example, I don't know, you know,
[41:41.860 -> 41:44.360] if you put go-karts in every primary school,
[41:44.360 -> 41:49.920] obviously I think you should have 20 drivers at the pace of Verstappen, but where the sport is now, you
[41:49.920 -> 41:53.800] see a driver with that out-and-out speed and he's been kind of bred differently and can
[41:53.800 -> 41:58.620] get the most out of the car, we are seeing something special.
[41:58.620 -> 42:03.200] And then Mark Nicholson addresses the elephant in the room, why do you love Max Verstappen?
[42:03.200 -> 42:09.920] The answer for most of them is that he's Dutch, the Belgians seem to have ignored their association with him and he's a
[42:09.920 -> 42:15.120] winner. That seems to be sufficient and I think that's fine. In sport, I think you're completely
[42:15.120 -> 42:22.080] allowed the shortcut where you support the local athlete, the local driver. I'm a Colchester United
[42:22.080 -> 42:29.480] fan. Coincidentally, they happen to be the greatest team ever. It's just a coincidence that I was born nearby. But I accept that that might
[42:29.480 -> 42:33.840] look to some people like I just supported them because I live next door. Lucas?
[42:33.840 -> 42:39.440] Oh yeah, just a small question to Matt. You are from America, right?
[42:39.440 -> 42:40.440] America.
[42:40.440 -> 42:44.760] So were you a big, big fan of Andretti?
[42:44.760 -> 42:46.960] Was I a bit of Mario, you mean?
[42:46.960 -> 42:48.320] No, in Formula One.
[42:48.320 -> 42:49.800] It was Michael, I think.
[42:49.800 -> 42:52.320] Oh, you mean the current Formula One bit?
[42:52.320 -> 42:54.520] Yeah, so when in 1993.
[42:54.520 -> 42:56.160] Oh, in 93.
[42:56.160 -> 43:02.240] Well, you managed to hit that point in time where I was watching cycling instead of Formula
[43:02.240 -> 43:03.240] One.
[43:03.240 -> 43:04.240] Okay.
[43:04.240 -> 43:08.280] Or paying attention., or paying attention well paying attention There was no formula one available for me at that time
[43:10.080 -> 43:12.320] But I I
[43:13.240 -> 43:19.300] Was a big fan of Mario when Mario was in formula one. That's kind of how old I am how about that
[43:20.760 -> 43:28.000] All right, Matt. What say you that we we look forward to the next, probably, Wets Grand Prix?
[43:28.000 -> 43:31.000] I think we can do it. Let's do it. I don't need your permission, I'm just going to decide.
[43:31.000 -> 43:35.000] Yeah, that's right. I'm the best one.
[43:35.000 -> 43:39.000] You should follow me and Matt though. We're quite, we're alright on social media.
[43:39.000 -> 43:48.000] I'm at SpannersReady and Matt is at MattPT55 and you put all our links handily in the show notes so on your app swipe left or right
[43:48.000 -> 43:55.000] or on YouTube scroll down and you'll see all the links there and we should get these guys social media links as well
[43:55.000 -> 43:58.000] Lucas where do we find you on Twitter?
[43:58.000 -> 43:59.000] Lucas Deacon
[43:59.000 -> 44:02.000] D E G E N
[44:02.000 -> 44:06.120] There we go and link in the show note below And it's at DualSegas F1.
[44:06.120 -> 44:09.320] Correct. Yes. No F1, just DualSegas.
[44:09.320 -> 44:11.760] At DualSegas. All right, cool. And remember...
[44:11.760 -> 44:13.240] He doesn't need the F1.
[44:13.240 -> 44:18.560] Exactly. And remember, if you want to encourage this general kind of thing, support us on
[44:18.560 -> 44:23.440] Patreon, patreon.com forward slash missed apex. Or if you think we're doing a brilliant
[44:23.440 -> 44:26.800] job and you want to specifically buy me or Matt a the
[44:26.880 -> 44:33.320] Equivalent of a pint or a cup of coffee. It's missed apex podcast.com forward slash tip jar and
[44:33.980 -> 44:38.320] Anything that that keeps us from being we could be taken over any minute by one of the big
[44:38.880 -> 44:43.900] Conglomerates you don't want that do you come and support missed apex podcast or do we want that Matt?
[44:43.900 -> 44:45.240] Do we want to sell out?
[44:45.240 -> 44:48.640] I don't know. For 550 million dollars I might have to think about it.
[44:48.640 -> 44:53.000] One billion dollars and we're in. Let's look forward to the Canadian Grand Prix. I have
[44:53.000 -> 45:00.920] asked some of our panel to talk about their Canadian Grand Prix memories and 2011 is the
[45:00.920 -> 45:10.280] one that comes up most often. And thank you much Lucas for for sharing a link with me and I sat and I watched an extended highlights of the the 2011
[45:10.680 -> 45:14.480] Grand Prix and it just transported me to a different time Lucas
[45:15.080 -> 45:18.040] Kobayashi versus Massa Michael Schumacher
[45:18.600 -> 45:24.740] Clutching second place mid race an absolutely chaotic race and definitely a Canada classic
[45:25.280 -> 45:29.840] mid-race, an absolutely chaotic race and definitely a Canada classic. Wow, that was I think maybe the best race I've ever seen.
[45:29.840 -> 45:34.560] Yeah, and all the way through, like you couldn't have called that from a long way out.
[45:34.560 -> 45:40.480] No, I think we had to stop for a few hours actually, because it was raining so hard. Did it?
[45:40.480 -> 45:44.160] Yeah, it started, there was definitely a red flag. I can't remember if there was more than...
[45:44.160 -> 45:46.320] I think it was the longest Grand Prix ever.
[45:46.320 -> 45:47.320] I'm not sure about that.
[45:47.320 -> 45:49.320] And that's probably why they brought in the rule that,
[45:49.320 -> 45:51.820] okay, four hours and we're done.
[45:51.820 -> 45:55.320] Because TV scheduling starts to get into the way.
[45:55.320 -> 45:59.820] But the famous one from that is always the button win.
[45:59.820 -> 46:02.320] So Jenson Button... yeah, Jenson Button jewels,
[46:02.320 -> 46:04.820] I think he had... oh, Matt, sorry.
[46:04.820 -> 46:08.280] Was it three pit stops and the drive through and then one?
[46:08.840 -> 46:10.080] Uh, I don't care.
[46:10.600 -> 46:12.960] But you made me watch the highlights.
[46:13.320 -> 46:17.320] I just need to point out to everyone who remembers this solely is Button's
[46:17.320 -> 46:23.400] laudatory drive to an irresistible victory that literally on the last lap,
[46:23.880 -> 46:27.960] foreshadowing perhaps Sebastian Vettel in the lead and
[46:27.960 -> 46:33.360] fairly unpossible, just like missed a turn in point and drove off the track and let Button
[46:33.360 -> 46:34.360] win.
[46:34.360 -> 46:37.040] So I just feel like I need to add that right now.
[46:37.040 -> 46:43.000] So this is hailed as a glorious Jensen Button victory, but it's a bit more complicated than
[46:43.000 -> 46:44.000] that.
[46:44.000 -> 46:47.740] And I'm glad I watched that because I had to remind myself of it because at the time I remember thinking
[46:47.740 -> 46:51.500] I remember thinking oh that's a quite a spawny win and actually he was a bit of
[46:51.500 -> 46:55.540] a menace in that race but it has been lauded as this great victory so looking
[46:55.540 -> 46:59.220] back on it like he fully just drove Lewis Hamilton into the wall quite
[46:59.220 -> 47:02.980] randomly and maybe the commentators were saying oh he couldn't see with the spray
[47:02.980 -> 47:08.160] but he did and it is not very Jenson Button-y to like just deliberately crash someone, but he did drive Lewis
[47:08.160 -> 47:13.840] Hamilton in the wall, he kept his stuck his nose in and was pointing not towards the next apex
[47:13.840 -> 47:20.560] in turn three and took Alonso out and yeah, and of course benefited from the red flags and a safety
[47:20.560 -> 47:26.240] car and then actually that last stint though Matt Matt, I would say, the last stint
[47:26.240 -> 47:32.080] was really great, and he had to go through Weber and Schumacher to fight through, and yes, he was
[47:32.080 -> 47:37.440] gifted it at the end, but it was still a good drive at the end. Oh yeah, I mean, there's no
[47:37.440 -> 47:41.600] doubting it was a good drive. He wouldn't have passed all those people if he wasn't really
[47:41.600 -> 47:45.560] specifically on it that day in that car.
[47:45.560 -> 47:51.380] But it's funny how, to me, the little things, if Vettel hadn't done that, would we even
[47:51.380 -> 47:54.280] talk about that drive in the same way?
[47:54.280 -> 47:55.280] Possibly not.
[47:55.280 -> 48:00.920] And like you said, it was a foreshadowing because it was a really slow speed, weird
[48:00.920 -> 48:05.880] spin, and it was the kind of spin that then plagued his Ferrari career as
[48:05.880 -> 48:11.040] well. So he just kept, in 2017, 2018, he just kept having these really slow
[48:11.040 -> 48:16.520] speed, just under throttle spins which seemed to just basically throw away that
[48:16.520 -> 48:20.920] that championship. So that isn't the only win he's thrown away at the Canadian
[48:20.920 -> 48:25.160] Grand Prix. Lucas, 2019, he threw away a win as well.
[48:27.080 -> 48:27.480] Yep. He went off.
[48:29.280 -> 48:29.360] What was it, the chicane? I don't know.
[48:32.280 -> 48:32.520] It was the chicane before the hairpin, yeah.
[48:35.480 -> 48:35.560] True. And then he came back on a track.
[48:37.280 -> 48:37.640] Lewis put his nose in.
[48:39.080 -> 48:39.160] He said, Feto said,
[48:40.680 -> 48:41.120] I didn't see Lewis.
[48:43.080 -> 48:43.440] And then he got a penalty
[48:44.840 -> 48:47.120] and he swapped the... we all remember swapping the
[48:47.120 -> 48:49.880] P1 and P2 sign afterwards.
[48:49.880 -> 48:50.880] That was fantastic.
[48:50.880 -> 48:51.880] That was Vettel.
[48:51.880 -> 48:54.200] Yeah, he was in full meltdown mode.
[48:54.200 -> 48:57.880] I have to say, go and watch that back.
[48:57.880 -> 49:02.140] Go and search Canada 2019 Vettel penalty.
[49:02.140 -> 49:10.080] It will definitely come up instantly because there was so much controversy about it. But he lost it on his own, another unforced error. And this
[49:10.080 -> 49:15.800] is unfortunate, like unforced errors define Vettel's time at Ferrari, even
[49:15.800 -> 49:20.160] though the 2019 car ultimately wasn't competitive because they were only
[49:20.160 -> 49:25.200] allowed to use the legal amount of fuel per second or whatever it was into their fuel
[49:25.200 -> 49:30.560] tank. Yeah, he lost it on his own, cut the chicane, Hamilton just driving completely normally,
[49:30.560 -> 49:35.440] Vettel goes back on the track, ends up forcing him past the white line, gets a five second
[49:35.440 -> 49:43.520] penalty for it, is not happy at all, and swaps the P1 and P2 marker boards. And Vettel's got
[49:43.520 -> 49:46.040] previous for this, you know, he under the
[49:46.040 -> 49:50.800] safety car in Baku, he drove his car to hit Lewis Hamilton, got a 10 second penalty or
[49:50.800 -> 49:54.400] a drive through, and they said, oh, you got a penalty for dangerous driving and literally
[49:54.400 -> 50:00.840] said, when did I do dangerous driving? When you used your car as a retaliatory weapon
[50:00.840 -> 50:06.080] into Lewis Hamilton. So he definitely had form for that Lucas. Like as cool as everyone
[50:06.080 -> 50:12.720] thought grandad or uncle Seb was for Aston Martin, he definitely is a fiery character.
[50:12.720 -> 50:18.800] True, he was in Mexico, pointing his finger at Max Verstappen and this to Charlie.
[50:18.800 -> 50:20.800] And yelling at Charlie Whiting, yeah.
[50:20.800 -> 50:30.000] He's just emotional passionate. We call it passion. There we go. I like that. But your memories, Jules, of the Canadian Grand Prix are like in antiquity.
[50:30.000 -> 50:38.000] You basically said the Canadian Grand Prix, Centurion Julius Montgomery with his, you know,
[50:38.000 -> 50:47.360] his pilau and his Roman shield took a great victory in the 231 GP. Not that far back. You've gone to the 80s though.
[50:47.920 -> 50:49.280] Yeah, early 90s.
[50:49.280 -> 50:49.920] Early 90s.
[50:51.120 -> 50:58.400] With Nigel Menzel botching a win on the final lap.
[50:58.400 -> 50:59.440] Was that Montreal?
[51:00.080 -> 51:01.040] That was Montreal.
[51:01.680 -> 51:02.880] Explain it to us.
[51:06.720 -> 51:14.720] That was Montreal. Oh, explain it, explain it to us, explain it. So, context, I'll try to keep short. 91 season, Ed and Senna had won pole and the Grand Prix of the first four races.
[51:15.440 -> 51:23.280] And arriving in Canada, all of a sudden, Nigel Mansell in this terrific FW14
[51:28.680 -> 51:34.920] in this terrific FW14 had a shot at ending that street by Senna. A lot of drivers dropped out of the race because of mechanical failures, the McLarens, the
[51:34.920 -> 51:36.440] Ferraris, I believe.
[51:36.440 -> 51:42.760] So Mansell was on a 50 second lead in the final lap and he enters the hairpin, which
[51:42.760 -> 51:45.680] we all know, and he starts waving to the crowd.
[51:45.680 -> 51:47.440] Oh, I remember. I remember. So rough.
[51:47.440 -> 51:54.720] You see his glove out of the cockpit waving to the crowd and he stalls the car. He lets the
[51:54.720 -> 52:01.040] revs drop too low and the car stalls. And all of a sudden you see him exiting the hairpin
[52:01.040 -> 52:07.440] and you just see he lacks the speed, you know, and he's stalling. And Murray Walker,
[52:07.440 -> 52:16.640] you can hear him like, oh no, Menzel's a stall. And it was Nelson Piquet who was, you know,
[52:16.640 -> 52:28.160] he's already gone in his 90s, in his last season at Benetton. He's 50 seconds behind Mansell and because everybody else failed to finish
[52:28.160 -> 52:33.520] the race already. Nelson Piquet all of a sudden won his final Grand Prix because of that.
[52:33.520 -> 52:41.360] And it was just a typical Nigel Mansell drama, you know, breaking his own windows, that type
[52:41.360 -> 52:42.360] of thing.
[52:42.360 -> 52:46.840] People forget how much Nigel Mansell absolutely loved the show and
[52:46.840 -> 52:52.080] what a showman he was. If you think Alonso, because Alonso always says, you know, oh yeah,
[52:52.080 -> 52:56.800] well my engine was on fire and I still won, you know, it's the whole magic Alonso meme.
[52:56.800 -> 53:02.480] Mansell was definitely like that and he caught the passion of the Italian fans, he was El Lion-O,
[53:02.480 -> 53:05.280] and he definitely, like in Lotus, didn't he, like he ran out of fuel and then he got out of the Italian fans, he was El Liano and he definitely like, like in Lotus, didn't he,
[53:05.280 -> 53:09.360] like he ran out of fuel and then he got out of the car and he dramatically pushed it over the line
[53:09.360 -> 53:15.120] and and then, whoa is me, collapsed with heat exhaustion. Yeah, come on. When Nigel went,
[53:15.120 -> 53:21.600] drama was never far away, you know. So, and another one, can I, can I slide in just another
[53:21.600 -> 53:30.240] golden oldie? Because it's, it's, you know, everybody loves the sound of the Ferrari V12 or V12 engines, you
[53:30.240 -> 53:40.320] know, and the Canadian Grand Prix in 1995, Jean Lézy in the Ferrari, in the red Ferrari,
[53:40.320 -> 53:47.600] carrying the number 27, you know, the Gilles Villeneuve look. He won his first and only Grand Prix that
[53:47.600 -> 53:56.080] year at the Gilles Villeneuve track. It was the very last victory for a V12 engine in Formula 1.
[53:56.080 -> 54:05.520] Ferrari were back then the only team still carrying a V12 engine, everybody else had gone back to V10s, V8s. So I think that's,
[54:05.520 -> 54:10.040] you know, for Formula One history, it's a pretty, pretty nice fact.
[54:10.040 -> 54:14.080] I honestly, when I saw in the notes that you'd gone back to the 90s, I thought I wasn't going
[54:14.080 -> 54:17.960] to remember, but it's all flooded back. Lucas, I know you were trying to get in with Mansell
[54:17.960 -> 54:20.560] as well. So feel free to go to either of those.
[54:20.560 -> 54:26.240] Well, you said Nigel Mansell was a, well, emotional person, but can you remember, I
[54:26.240 -> 54:33.440] think it was 1992, Canada, where he spun and he acted like he was so hurt because, well,
[54:33.440 -> 54:39.280] he hit the gravel and then he waited for Senna to come by and he was pointing his finger
[54:39.280 -> 54:41.160] at Senna, like, it's your fault.
[54:41.160 -> 54:42.960] And I really thought, whoa, what happened to Nigel?
[54:42.960 -> 54:44.100] What happened to Nigel?
[54:44.100 -> 54:47.960] Because I was young and I didn't know Nigel. So then I thought, wow, you're such a drama
[54:47.960 -> 54:54.360] queen. But 1995, Ayrton Senna was actually the first time I cried watching Formula One
[54:54.360 -> 54:59.080] because I was such a big fan of Nigel Menzel. And it still gives me goosebumps because the
[54:59.080 -> 55:09.220] Dutch commentary said, well, the car is sticking together with tape. Because if if you look back to the race there was tape hanging on the Ferrari. Which year is this?
[55:09.220 -> 55:16.660] 1985. 1985. And Jean-Luc won the race so he said and Jean-Luc doesn't give a damn
[55:16.660 -> 55:22.300] about the tape because this is a win and that was wow. It's you know your first
[55:22.300 -> 55:28.520] win is the best. Oh man oh man I look the thing is when you, when you're a kid, all these races wash over you. So the
[55:28.520 -> 55:32.440] fact that you guys have done some research and go, I remember that race, I had no idea.
[55:32.440 -> 55:38.960] I had no idea it was the Canadian Grand Prix. And look, the track is an anomaly. There's
[55:38.960 -> 55:46.800] no track like the Canadian Grand Prix. It falls in this mystical land between street circuits and proper
[55:46.800 -> 55:52.560] Grand Prix tracks, if you like, in that the track itself kind of, it's laid out and it's raced,
[55:52.560 -> 55:58.560] it could be a bespoke track in the middle of a field somewhere, but it's not. It's surrounded
[55:58.560 -> 56:04.720] by walls, the track surface is more akin to a street track, they always seem to run the lowest,
[56:04.720 -> 56:06.200] so it's low wear, isn't it, Matt?
[56:06.200 -> 56:12.300] Let's get into tyres. We'll get into a bit of Canadian Grand Prix stuff. My memory is, from the olden days,
[56:12.500 -> 56:19.820] of Prime and Option, that it was definitely a track that always favoured the softer tyres, or they went with the softer tyres.
[56:20.460 -> 56:22.320] Well, I mean,
[56:22.320 -> 56:27.560] when you get into it, it's a street circuit because of the chicane-like
[56:27.560 -> 56:31.800] nature and the hairpin, you're always going to need a good, what they like to call, sort
[56:31.800 -> 56:34.420] of more mechanical grip.
[56:34.420 -> 56:41.260] And I think one of the things that people like about the circuit is it places a lot
[56:41.260 -> 56:45.800] of emphasis on driver skill and I think driver feel because like turn
[56:45.800 -> 56:52.640] 1, turn 2, that's sort of reminiscent of Brooklands and Luffield where the driver makes a lot
[56:52.640 -> 56:54.200] of the difference in looking at the tires.
[56:54.200 -> 56:59.400] But I love that you bring up tires because of the two memories I had.
[56:59.400 -> 57:02.840] One was 2014, the Massa-Perez collision.
[57:02.840 -> 57:04.780] That was huge.
[57:04.780 -> 57:06.500] Go and look that up. Everyone go and look that up now.
[57:06.500 -> 57:10.400] Massa Perez crashing in Montreal. That was down the home straight.
[57:10.400 -> 57:13.500] Was that Perez just steaming through?
[57:13.500 -> 57:15.500] It was one or the other. I can't remember.
[57:15.500 -> 57:17.700] Well Perez got the penalty for it.
[57:17.700 -> 57:22.500] But the reason I remember it is because by now Twitter was a thing.
[57:22.500 -> 57:27.100] And I believe there was probably six months worth
[57:27.100 -> 57:30.960] of angry conversations with lots of diagrams,
[57:30.960 -> 57:34.040] pictures with lines drawn on them
[57:34.040 -> 57:35.880] that filtered through my timeline.
[57:35.880 -> 57:38.840] And I always said to myself,
[57:38.840 -> 57:41.920] like how into something do you have to be
[57:41.920 -> 57:44.800] that you would spend hours drawing lines
[57:44.800 -> 57:47.000] to make your point about whose fault it was?
[57:47.000 -> 58:06.000] We've done that clearly before we started this show. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was um, I think that was actually the first season that we covered you and me in fact 2014 because I'll always remember it because of the double points Abu Dhabi decided. Oh gosh, Abu double. Because Hamilton was clear by more than a race win,
[58:06.000 -> 58:09.000] but the double points thing made it so either driver could win,
[58:09.000 -> 58:11.000] and Rosberg had a gearbox failure.
[58:11.000 -> 58:14.000] But if Hamilton had happened to have that gearbox,
[58:14.000 -> 58:16.000] it would have been the other way around.
[58:16.000 -> 58:20.000] And that would have been, imagine, like, you know, Abu Dhabi 21,
[58:20.000 -> 58:22.000] I think it would have been similar to that,
[58:22.000 -> 58:26.920] the fact that he'd lost out because it was some weird double points thing.
[58:26.920 -> 58:31.400] There's no way for it to have not been controversial if that's the way it had worked out.
[58:31.400 -> 58:36.280] But the other race, Canadian race, that we're not talking about, that we absolutely should,
[58:36.280 -> 58:41.880] although I think Kyle might have referenced it in our last news show, is the 2010 Grand
[58:41.880 -> 58:46.760] Prix where Bridgestone brought entirely the wrong tires, the circuit was
[58:46.760 -> 58:52.580] completely resurfaced, and then it rained right before the race, making the track absolutely
[58:52.580 -> 59:00.160] green and there was suddenly a multitude of tire strategies, a fascinating race, none
[59:00.160 -> 59:04.520] of the teams' strategies just knew exactly what was going to happen until the last moment,
[59:04.520 -> 59:08.800] there were multiple pit stops, and at the end of it pretty much everyone agreed like,
[59:08.800 -> 59:14.000] geez, if we could only write Formula One regulations so that every race turned out like this,
[59:14.000 -> 59:18.880] it would be the best sport ever. And that's exactly the brief that got handed to Pirelli,
[59:18.880 -> 59:24.240] and it's why we see the racing we see today. Yeah, I do remember that. Obviously,
[59:24.240 -> 59:26.720] that was an extreme version. And then we had a
[59:26.720 -> 59:32.480] period where we had chocolate tires that would be great, great, great, then gone. And we
[59:32.480 -> 59:34.760] had the cliff. I missed the cliff.
[59:34.760 -> 59:40.640] You missed the cliff. Yeah, well, interesting, in 2013, that's where Pirelli tested the tires
[59:40.640 -> 59:52.400] that came after the chocolate tires because the previous race in Barcelona had been won by Alonso with a, get this, a four stopper. And even they said, well, maybe that's too much.
[59:52.400 -> 59:53.760] Maybe that's too much.
[59:53.760 -> 59:59.680] But in 2010, like a lot of people forget things that happened. Classic Hamilton ran out of fuel
[59:59.680 -> 01:00:04.800] in qualifying. He got out of his car, he was pushing it down the back straight. And McLaren
[01:00:04.800 -> 01:00:06.320] actually got a penalty for that because he basically, they said got out of his car. He was pushing it down the back straight and McLaren actually got a penalty for that
[01:00:06.640 -> 01:00:10.960] Because he basically they said turn off the car. You won't have enough fuel for a sample
[01:00:11.840 -> 01:00:13.840] And the marshals helped him push it
[01:00:14.880 -> 01:00:21.920] Petrov, do you remember Petrov at the start of 2010? Of course, everybody does he got to drive through penalties in the first hundred meters of
[01:00:21.920 -> 01:00:30.880] His race. I'm just saying it was a wild one. Go back and watch it if you can. Yeah, Canadian Grand Prix, let's go back to the circuit. I love the fact
[01:00:30.880 -> 01:00:36.400] that you compared Turn 1 and 2 to Brooklyn's Luffield. It's similar. It's like a tighter
[01:00:36.400 -> 01:00:42.480] version of Brooklyn's Luffield. It's not quite as lingering, it's not quite as sweeping, but we do
[01:00:42.480 -> 01:00:53.020] see good racing. I hope these cars can live up to it But certainly watching that 2011 replay such good racing into turn one and turn two and that's still in the DRS era as well
[01:00:53.420 -> 01:00:59.720] But yeah, so that's a great section and then we kind of get into this Monza-esque section where we have
[01:01:00.360 -> 01:01:06.960] chicane, chicane, chicane, and then the big hairpin which I love. But why, why don't
[01:01:06.960 -> 01:01:11.440] these chicanes irritate me as much as other chicanes on the calendar? Because
[01:01:11.440 -> 01:01:16.800] Matt, you called out the hypocrisy, so stand by it now. Why am I, why am I right
[01:01:16.800 -> 01:01:23.320] and wrong? Well I mean, I think it's because, you know, all chicanes aren't, all
[01:01:23.320 -> 01:01:25.800] chicanes are equal, but not all chicanes
[01:01:25.800 -> 01:01:27.560] are equal, if you catch my drift.
[01:01:27.560 -> 01:01:29.440] They're not safety chicanes, are they?
[01:01:29.440 -> 01:01:30.960] Like the old Barca one.
[01:01:30.960 -> 01:01:35.440] No, none of... first of all, none of them are very slow speed.
[01:01:35.440 -> 01:01:38.560] So that's one thing that you have going in your favor.
[01:01:38.560 -> 01:01:43.840] They're all sort of a different amount of distance and time between the flip and the
[01:01:43.840 -> 01:01:46.280] flop of the chicane and
[01:01:46.280 -> 01:01:52.760] because ultimately that kind of a thing in a track, especially a
[01:01:52.760 -> 01:01:57.160] track that is bumpy, especially a track that might be rained on, essentially
[01:01:57.160 -> 01:02:03.320] it's an error generator for the drivers. It's very hard for the teams to
[01:02:03.320 -> 01:02:06.240] get it right because not all the bumps are predictable.
[01:02:06.240 -> 01:02:10.960] I don't care how many times they laser scan the track and run simulations, you know, you're going
[01:02:10.960 -> 01:02:15.600] to hit that bump and suddenly the car is going to go in opposite direction to the 9000 times it did
[01:02:15.600 -> 01:02:22.640] before and smash. You've got an error generator. You've got the wall of champions or out of one of
[01:02:22.640 -> 01:02:25.080] the chicanes, or as I like to call it the wall of everybody's
[01:02:25.080 -> 01:02:27.520] now because it seems like everybody's crashed into it right?
[01:02:27.520 -> 01:02:30.040] It's one of the oldest cliches isn't it?
[01:02:30.040 -> 01:02:32.840] This is what you call this is confirmation bias.
[01:02:32.840 -> 01:02:37.340] When a champion or a future champion hits the wall of champions they go, oh see there
[01:02:37.340 -> 01:02:40.420] it is again the legend of the wall of champions.
[01:02:40.420 -> 01:02:48.160] And then if Latifi hits it they just go, oh Latifi hit the wall Like, don't mention the fact that it invalidates the wall of champions thing.
[01:02:48.160 -> 01:02:53.360] I don't, let's not get rid of the magic of it though, because it is genuinely a turn
[01:02:53.360 -> 01:02:58.160] that's an error generator because it invites the drivers to be in on the limit.
[01:02:58.160 -> 01:03:01.520] And then when they're just over it, Jules, they get stung.
[01:03:02.160 -> 01:03:06.720] Yeah, I think that's why you don't mind these chicanes as much, because
[01:03:06.720 -> 01:03:13.360] I think every chicane, besides it being a bit fluid, having a flow, you know,
[01:03:14.720 -> 01:03:22.320] I think every chicane on that track has a wall beside it to punish you. Another gigantic gravel
[01:03:22.320 -> 01:03:26.000] trap. Except for the one where Vettel went over to get his completely
[01:03:26.000 -> 01:03:35.360] justified penalty in 9-20-19. But the punishment to mess up the chicane is so severe and in
[01:03:37.040 -> 01:03:47.120] most cases is this a proper to say lethal? Yeah well, a wall at the end of fast things is generally potentially
[01:03:47.120 -> 01:03:53.000] lethal, and that's an inherent part of motorsport. Thankfully it has been mitigated a lot by
[01:03:53.000 -> 01:03:59.920] the great work of the people who are pushing for safety in Formula One. So the overtaking,
[01:03:59.920 -> 01:04:05.520] I'm hoping, will be less of an issue here, because you do have two big long straights and I'm
[01:04:05.520 -> 01:04:08.720] assuming they will both be DRS zones.
[01:04:08.720 -> 01:04:12.640] I think we will get some interesting racing because both of those DRS zones traditionally
[01:04:12.640 -> 01:04:18.080] have kind of, they've let you close the gap up but you've still got work to do into the
[01:04:18.080 -> 01:04:20.640] final chicane and into turn one.
[01:04:20.640 -> 01:04:22.400] So it is a race I'm looking forward to.
[01:04:22.400 -> 01:04:29.000] I will say in general when it's completely dry, the Canadian Grand Prix, it's a little bit like Baku.
[01:04:29.000 -> 01:04:52.500] In the complete dry, most of those races are fairly standard and if it's saying 21 degrees and it's saying 50% chance of precipitation of moisture on the track.
[01:04:52.500 -> 01:04:55.500] So I think that should be a lot of fun.
[01:04:55.500 -> 01:05:05.440] It will of course, I think it will mask the upgrades from, or how effective the upgrades are from Aston Martin and the previous Mercedes upgrades.
[01:05:05.440 -> 01:05:10.480] I think Canada was always going to be unrepresentative anyway, so we may as well have a bit of chaos
[01:05:10.480 -> 01:05:12.160] and fun in the rain.
[01:05:12.160 -> 01:05:14.780] Thank you very much for tuning into Mr Apex podcast.
[01:05:14.780 -> 01:05:19.920] If you are a Dutch speaker, go and tune into the Race Reporter.
[01:05:19.920 -> 01:05:22.400] Where do we find that most easily, Lucas?
[01:05:22.400 -> 01:05:24.560] F1podcast.nl.
[01:05:24.560 -> 01:05:26.920] And yeah, and always in Dutch?
[01:05:26.920 -> 01:05:27.920] Always.
[01:05:27.920 -> 01:05:31.480] I listened to it and I was like, oh, the audio quality is really good.
[01:05:31.480 -> 01:05:37.080] I don't understand what they're saying, but it sounds, in Dutch, everything sounds
[01:05:37.080 -> 01:05:40.600] sleepy and casual, but with an air of menace.
[01:05:40.600 -> 01:05:41.680] And I liked it.
[01:05:41.680 -> 01:05:46.260] I'm thinking of maybe using AI and do the Japanese Grand Prix
[01:05:46.260 -> 01:05:50.940] in Japanese. Oh I also won't understand that either so that doesn't
[01:05:50.940 -> 01:05:54.480] that doesn't help me at all but I hope you'll come back throughout the season
[01:05:54.480 -> 01:05:58.700] and beyond as well and maybe we can send a missed Apex representative in the form
[01:05:58.700 -> 01:06:08.000] of Jules Segers go and follow him. Jules,, are you not tempted to get your pen out and start just writing some rambling F1 diatribes?
[01:06:08.000 -> 01:06:10.000] Often, often feel like it.
[01:06:10.000 -> 01:06:15.000] And yeah, definitely still have this ambition.
[01:06:15.000 -> 01:06:17.000] An itch underneath.
[01:06:17.000 -> 01:06:18.000] We'll see how that goes.
[01:06:18.000 -> 01:06:19.000] Go and follow Jules on Twitter.
[01:06:19.000 -> 01:06:21.000] Links in the show notes below.
[01:06:21.000 -> 01:06:24.000] Go and follow Matt at Mattpt55.
[01:06:24.000 -> 01:06:26.460] And yo, your, uh, Mrs.
[01:06:26.460 -> 01:06:28.140] Trumpets, old Amanda.
[01:06:28.660 -> 01:06:31.060] She's still writing them, uh, them books.
[01:06:31.120 -> 01:06:34.140] She's still writing those, those romantic novels, Matt.
[01:06:34.660 -> 01:06:40.380] It, it has been a little while since a new one has been written, but, uh, she
[01:06:40.380 -> 01:06:43.680] has one that's, um, well, we're considering for re-release.
[01:06:43.680 -> 01:06:49.740] It needs work, it needs effort, and it might be based in a sport that could be considered
[01:06:49.740 -> 01:06:52.820] Formula One except for copyright and trademark purposes.
[01:06:52.820 -> 01:06:57.460] There's going to be a Formula One drama film that's come out.
[01:06:57.460 -> 01:06:58.460] It's been licensed.
[01:06:58.460 -> 01:07:01.420] It's going to be a drama set around the world of Formula One.
[01:07:01.420 -> 01:07:03.100] So that's real hot right now.
[01:07:03.100 -> 01:07:11.840] I think we should get that going and do it in a male voice so that we can have a swarthy English narrator. That would be the plan.
[01:07:11.840 -> 01:07:17.120] So look out, I am also recording currently an audiobook, so I'm hoping that if you enjoy a
[01:07:17.120 -> 01:07:25.200] short fantasy story about someone using magic and stuff like fight giants, then you will be tempted to go and
[01:07:25.200 -> 01:07:30.320] buy an audiobook from Spanners. But until then, you will have to make do with the fact that we
[01:07:30.320 -> 01:07:35.920] are going to be live for the Canadian Grand Prix around, I don't know, it ends at nine o'clock,
[01:07:35.920 -> 01:07:42.720] so maybe we'll go for an 11pm start, which is why I've drafted in a largely North American panel.
[01:07:42.720 -> 01:07:45.440] We'll have Matt, we'll have me, we'll have Christina,
[01:07:45.440 -> 01:07:51.120] we'll have Antonia, but we will have your review ready for your Monday morning commute.
[01:07:51.120 -> 01:08:10.000] So until then, work hard, be kind, and have fun. This was Mr Apex Podcast. ♪♪
[01:08:10.000 -> 01:08:20.020] ♪♪
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