Podcast: Missed Apex
Published Date:
Wed, 08 Feb 2023 19:50:08 GMT
Duration:
1:15:40
Explicit:
False
Guests:
MP3 Audio:
Please note that the summary is generated based on the transcript and may not capture all the nuances or details discussed in the podcast episode.
Spanners and Trumpets are joined by professional race car driver Bradley Philpot as they find the limit on driving styles differences. From track limits testing to unraveling understeer, from lowering lap times to sim race suffering, no traction event goes unrecorded in this, the latest episode of Missed Apex Podcast
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Spanners Ready Spanners���� (@SpannersReady)
spanners@missedapex.net
Matt Trumpets mattpt55 (@mattpt55)
Matt Trumpets (@mattpt55@mastodon.social)
Brad Philpot Brad Philpot 🏁 (@BradleyPhilpot) / Twitter
We want to promote brad’s new coaching school so if you want 1 to 1 tuition on track or on a sim go to bradphilpot.com/coaching
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**Missed Apex Podcast Episode Transcript: Driving Styles, Coaching, and Virtual Le Mans**
**Intro:**
* Welcome to the Missed Apex Podcast, a Formula One podcast hosted by Richard "Spanners" Ready and Matt "Trumpets" James.
* Today's episode features professional race car driver and expert coach Bradley Philpot, who joins the hosts to discuss driving styles, the recent virtual Le Mans event, and how to improve driving skills.
**Sergio Perez vs. Fernando Alonso:**
* A listener asks which driver they would rather be in the shoes of for the 2023 season: Sergio Perez or Fernando Alonso.
* Matt prefers Alonso because he believes he has a higher ceiling and is more satisfied with his driving life.
* Brad agrees, stating that Alonso has a higher ceiling and is probably more satisfied in his driving life because of it.
**Max Verstappen as a Teammate:**
* The hosts discuss whether Sergio Perez could win a world championship if he had a different teammate, such as Max Verstappen.
* Brad believes that Perez could win a world championship if he had a teammate who wasn't as dominant as Verstappen.
* Matt argues that Perez is in the top half of F1 drivers and could win a championship if the car was tuned to his driving style.
**F1 Driver Coaches:**
* A listener asks why more F1 drivers don't have dedicated driver coaches.
* Brad explains that there is a stigma against using driver coaches in motorsport, as some drivers believe that a coach must be faster than them to be effective.
* He emphasizes that a coach's role is to help the driver extract the maximum performance from their abilities and to keep them focused on the right things.
* The hosts discuss the role of race engineers in providing feedback to drivers and how driver coaches can complement this role.
**Daniel Ricciardo's Struggles at McLaren:**
* The hosts discuss Daniel Ricciardo's struggles at McLaren and speculate on the reasons behind his poor performance.
* Brad suggests that Ricciardo may have been unable to adapt to the McLaren car's driving style, which was very different from the cars he had driven previously.
* Matt adds that Ricciardo may have been overthinking his driving, which can lead to slower lap times.
**Coaching for Different Skill Levels:**
* Brad discusses where he believes he can be most useful as a coach.
* He explains that the further down the professionalism, skill, and experience ladder a driver is, the more they can gain from coaching.
* He emphasizes the importance of experience in improving driving skills.
**Virtual Le Mans Event:**
* The hosts discuss the recent virtual Le Mans event, which saw Max Verstappen express his frustration with the event's organization.
* Brad explains that Verstappen's frustration was likely due to the fact that the event was not run to a professional standard.
* He also discusses the challenges of organizing a virtual racing event and the importance of clear communication between the organizers and the drivers.
**Coaching Services:**
* Brad promotes his coaching services and invites listeners to visit his website, bradphilpot.com/coaching, to learn more.
**24-Hour Sim Racing Event:**
* The hosts promote their upcoming 24-hour sim racing event, which will be held on the Missed Apex Discord server.
* They encourage listeners to sign up for the event and compete for a chance to win prizes.
**Outro:**
* The hosts thank Brad for joining the show and remind listeners to support the podcast on Patreon or through their Tip Jar.
* They also encourage listeners to send their mailbag questions to feedback@missedapex.net. # Missed Apex Podcast Transcript Analysis
## Introduction
- The podcast episode features professional race car driver Bradley Philpot, Spanners, and Matt Trumpets.
- They explore the topic of driving style differences in racing, particularly in Formula One.
## Main Discussion Points:
### 1. The Role of a Driving Coach:
- A driving coach can help drivers improve their skills and techniques, allowing them to become faster even without natural talent.
- The coach's role is to ensure drivers make progress efficiently, minimizing wasted track time.
- The earlier a driver receives coaching, the more beneficial it is, as it helps establish correct driving habits from the outset.
### 2. Common Areas for Improvement:
- A common area for improvement identified by Brad Philpot is maximizing track usage.
- Many drivers, even experienced ones, often leave significant track space unused, resulting in slower lap times.
- This issue arises because drivers may not realize the potential of using more track or may have ingrained habits that prevent them from doing so.
### 3. Breaking Bad Habits:
- Breaking ingrained driving habits can be challenging, especially if they have been practiced for a long time.
- Drivers may struggle to change their approach even when they intellectually understand the need for improvement.
- This highlights the importance of receiving coaching early on to establish correct techniques and avoid developing bad habits.
### 4. Differences in Driving Styles:
- Driving styles in Formula One vary, but the differences are often subtle and within a narrow margin.
- Variations in driving style may involve preferences for slightly oversteery or understeery cars, influenced by a driver's formative years and experiences in different teams and cars.
- These preferences are often related to the specific feedback drivers receive from the car's handling characteristics.
### 5. The Influence of Car Characteristics:
- The characteristics of a particular car can significantly impact a driver's style and approach.
- Drivers may need to adapt their driving style to suit the car's strengths and weaknesses.
- This can lead to situations where two drivers with different styles may adopt similar approaches if they are driving the same car.
### 6. Visualizing Driving Style Differences:
- It can be difficult for viewers to visually distinguish between different driving styles in Formula One.
- The variations are often subtle and occur in the nuances of steering weight and car response at specific phases of a corner.
- These differences are not always apparent from watching races on TV.
### 7. Identifying Driving Styles in Lower Categories:
- Driving style differences may be more noticeable in lower categories of racing, where drivers may have less experience and less refined techniques.
- In these categories, drivers may exhibit more extreme variations in their approaches, making it easier to identify individual styles.
### 8. Brad Philpot's Driving Style Preferences:
- Brad Philpot prefers a neutral car that responds precisely to his inputs, without understeering or oversteering excessively.
- He acknowledges that achieving a perfectly neutral car is unrealistic, but he aims to find the limit where the car is about to understeer or oversteer and maintain that balance throughout a corner.
### 9. The Importance of Feeling the Limit:
- Brad Philpot emphasizes the importance of feeling the limit of grip through the steering wheel and pedals.
- This allows drivers to make real-time adjustments to their inputs and maintain the car's balance throughout a corner.
- Relying solely on visual cues or hearing tire squeals can lead to delayed reactions and less precise control.
### 10. Micro-Inputs in Cornering:
- Brad Philpot's driving style involves making numerous micro-inputs through the middle of a corner.
- These inputs help him maintain the car's balance and prevent it from understeering or oversteering excessively.
- This technique requires a high level of skill and is not commonly observed among all drivers.
## Conclusion:
- The podcast discussion provides insights into the role of driving coaches, common areas for improvement, and the influence of car characteristics on driving style.
- It highlights the importance of establishing correct techniques early on, the challenges of breaking bad habits, and the subtle variations in driving styles among Formula One drivers.
- The episode also emphasizes the significance of feeling the limit of grip and making precise inputs to maintain car balance throughout a corner. ## Podcast Episode Summary: Missed Apex Podcast: Driving Styles and Limits
**Key Points:**
* **Driving Styles:**
* There are no universal driving styles, and drivers have different approaches to extracting the maximum potential from a car.
* Driving style differences arise from variations in how drivers perceive and react to feedback from the car.
* Some drivers rely more on feel, while others rely more on analytical data.
* The best drivers are able to adapt their driving style to different cars and track conditions.
* **Limits of Grip:**
* Drivers are constantly pushing the limits of grip to maximize their lap times.
* Understeer occurs when the front tires lose grip, causing the car to push wide in a corner.
* Oversteer occurs when the rear tires lose grip, causing the car to slide or spin.
* Drivers use steering inputs, throttle control, and weight transfer to manage grip and maintain control of the car.
* **Sim Racing:**
* Sim racing can be a valuable tool for drivers to practice and improve their skills.
* Sim racing can help drivers learn how to handle different cars and track conditions.
* It can also help drivers develop their racecraft and situational awareness.
* However, sim racing has limitations, and it is not a perfect substitute for real-world driving.
**Controversies and Insights:**
* **Max Verstappen's Criticism of Virtual Le Mans:**
* Verstappen was critical of the Virtual Le Mans 24 Hours event, citing issues with the simulation and the behavior of other drivers.
* Some drivers and fans agreed with Verstappen's criticisms, while others defended the event.
* The controversy highlights the challenges of creating a realistic and enjoyable virtual racing experience.
**Overall Message:**
The art of driving a Formula One car at the limit is a complex and challenging one. Drivers must constantly adapt their driving style to the car and track conditions, and they must be able to manage the delicate balance between grip and control. Sim racing can be a valuable tool for drivers to practice and improve their skills, but it has limitations and cannot fully replicate the real-world experience. # Missed Apex Podcast: Driving Styles Differences, Le Mans Virtual Debacle, and M4EM 24-Hour Race Announcement
## Introduction:
- Spanners, Matt, and Bradley Philpot join the podcast to discuss differences in driving styles, track limits, understeer, and sim racing challenges.
- The podcast highlights the recent technical issues faced during the Le Mans Virtual event, leading to frustration among participants, including Max Verstappen.
## Le Mans Virtual Controversy:
- Verstappen's criticism of the Le Mans Virtual event due to server issues is discussed.
- The exclusive rights held by rFactor 2 for hosting Le Mans 24-hour sim races are mentioned.
- Concerns are raised about the platform's reliability and capability to handle large-scale events.
- Alternative platforms like iRacing are suggested as more suitable for such events.
## M4EM 24-Hour Race Announcement:
- The hosts announce the M4EM 24-hour race, an event organized by the Missed Apex podcast.
- The race will take place on the Circuit de la Sarthe, the same track as the Le Mans 24-hour race, but with a different name to avoid legal issues.
- The event is scheduled for May 27th and 28th, running for 24 hours from 12 PM to 12 PM.
- Listeners are encouraged to participate in the race, and details for registration and team formation are provided.
## Conclusion:
- The podcast wraps up with a reminder of upcoming live streams and social media handles for the hosts.
- Patrons are encouraged to support the podcast through Patreon.
- The episode ends with a promotion for PrizePicks, a daily fantasy sports platform offering a deposit match bonus.
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[01:55.600 -> 02:10.760] daily fantasy sports made easy. You are listening to missed apex podcast we live f1
[02:20.200 -> 02:25.200] welcome to missed apex podcast I'm your host Richard Ready but my friends call
[02:25.200 -> 02:29.560] me Spanish so let's be friends. Today we're going to talk about all things
[02:29.560 -> 02:35.760] driving with special driver expert man Bradley Philpot. Brad is a test driver, an
[02:35.760 -> 02:41.000] expert coach and an endurance class champion at the Nordschleife and today
[02:41.000 -> 02:48.000] we're going to be talking about things like why was Max Verstappen so unhappy with the virtual Le Mans event that happened recently.
[02:48.000 -> 02:54.000] We're also going to discuss F1 driver styles and how you can improve in a sim or on a go-kart track,
[02:54.000 -> 02:58.000] and we're going to answer some of our patron driving questions as well.
[02:58.000 -> 03:05.400] And even if you don't do any form of racing, I want you to get into the mindset of someone who does. Maybe
[03:05.400 -> 03:09.480] imagine yourself going on a go-kart track or doing some sim racing or even
[03:09.480 -> 03:14.360] pretend you're an F1 driver off of the telly. Because as race fans we have a
[03:14.360 -> 03:19.120] disconnect that other fans of other sports don't have. Nearly every football
[03:19.120 -> 03:24.960] fan, soccer fan, goes and kicks a football at some point. Even if it's just kicking a
[03:24.960 -> 03:25.600] football around
[03:25.600 -> 03:30.320] with their kid or playing in a pub league or a local five-a-side league, they are there
[03:30.320 -> 03:35.240] kicking a ball around and trying to do it as well as possible, trying to emulate the
[03:35.240 -> 03:40.320] stars they see on TV and at the stadium. They're trying to say, oh, can I put some slice on
[03:40.320 -> 03:49.600] it with the outside of my boot? How do I best put my laces through that ball to stick it into the top corner? But I think as race fans, the vast majority of us don't
[03:49.600 -> 03:55.700] turn a wheel. So I would like to have you guys and us think of ourselves, for the sake
[03:55.700 -> 04:01.600] of this programme, as... let's think of ourselves as drivers. Let's think of ourselves as racers.
[04:01.600 -> 04:06.580] And Brad will help us do that. So So thank you very much to the crew for
[04:06.580 -> 04:10.200] keeping the seat warm while I was having a camping holiday and if you're brand
[04:10.200 -> 04:14.440] new to Missed Apex podcast you might not even know who I am because the crew did
[04:14.440 -> 04:17.880] such a great job filling in. So thank you to Uncle Steve for all the production
[04:17.880 -> 04:22.400] work and of course to Matt and Antonia for filling in in the host chair as well.
[04:22.400 -> 04:31.160] I'm so pleased, I'm so proud of the guys because one of my main aims last year was to bring forward talent and in the
[04:31.160 -> 04:34.800] form of podcasting and presenting from our pool and really add to the squad
[04:34.800 -> 04:39.200] depth and just make sure that you guys get to know more of the Myst Apex crew
[04:39.200 -> 04:44.440] as personalities. I think we're achieving that. So this year I want to
[04:44.440 -> 04:46.480] improve the range of content,
[04:46.480 -> 04:51.880] the range of personalities and have that all improve, spread and grow across all our formats
[04:51.880 -> 04:56.200] because we're shoring things up so that we will remain an independent podcast produced
[04:56.200 -> 05:00.360] in the podcasting shed with the kind permission of our better halves. We'll still aim to
[05:00.360 -> 05:05.600] bring you a race review before your Monday morning commute, because while we might be wrong, we are first.
[05:09.840 -> 05:13.920] Now I'm joined in the shed by Matt 2 Rumpets. Howdy Matt, how's it going?
[05:14.960 -> 05:18.320] I'm busy stepping back from day-to-day running of my dishwasher.
[05:18.960 -> 05:23.280] Okay, I have no idea what that means, but I do want to congratulate you on the best
[05:23.280 -> 05:26.000] tech time yet. You even held my,
[05:26.000 -> 05:33.120] my attention. I listened to nearly all of it. Wow, that is impressive. Thank you. Yeah, I was
[05:33.120 -> 05:38.800] very happy with the way that turned out, given the essential dearth of anything really happening in
[05:38.800 -> 05:45.040] Formula 1. Yeah, it's not bad. And just the way that Summers communicates things, I always just find so
[05:45.040 -> 05:50.640] on point. Like he very rarely wastes a word, he very rarely wastes the listener's time,
[05:50.640 -> 05:54.560] and I think that's why he's the best tech communicator in F1.
[05:55.680 -> 06:02.400] Yeah, and especially on the show where he can sort of follow where he wants to go.
[06:02.960 -> 06:10.400] He's a real, I mean I hate to use the word educator, but if you want to understand more of the complexity of the sport you
[06:10.400 -> 06:13.880] could pick no one better. And if you want to understand the complexity of driving
[06:13.880 -> 06:17.160] we could pick no one better than Brad Philpott who's also been a guest host
[06:17.160 -> 06:21.280] here on Missed Apex. I have, I'm happy you're back in the country Spanners and
[06:21.280 -> 06:25.120] I'm thrilled to be back on the show to contribute something.
[06:25.120 -> 06:28.400] Yes, and we should say, we should be honest up front, Brad,
[06:28.400 -> 06:31.920] we do have an ulterior motive for the show today.
[06:32.560 -> 06:40.080] We do. We would like to promote an event and we'd also like to promote my own services. I've
[06:40.080 -> 06:45.480] kind of gotten behind the coaching side of my work a little bit more in recent weeks.
[06:45.480 -> 06:50.560] And I'm really trying to push the fact that I'm here and I want to help people get faster.
[06:50.560 -> 06:56.220] My tagline is get faster, faster. And if you head to my website, bradphilpott.com slash
[06:56.220 -> 07:00.440] coaching, you can learn more about that. But let's, let's maybe give some people something
[07:00.440 -> 07:02.440] for free before I get them to pay for it.
[07:02.440 -> 07:05.400] We're definitely going to roll back around to that stuff. I just wanted to be honest and upfront.
[07:05.400 -> 07:07.700] Even though we've been wanting to do one of these for a while,
[07:07.700 -> 07:08.900] yes, we do want to.
[07:08.900 -> 07:11.200] We want to send people to bradfieldpot.com
[07:11.200 -> 07:14.900] com for sorry, bradfieldpot.com forward slash coaching.
[07:14.900 -> 07:20.200] And we also want you sim racers out there to get involved in our 24-hour
[07:20.200 -> 07:22.500] sim racing event that's happening in a few months time.
[07:22.500 -> 07:25.440] But before we do that let's gloss
[07:25.440 -> 07:31.920] let's gloss our ulterior motives off with the matte paint of some content. That didn't make
[07:31.920 -> 07:38.000] sense at all. I've had a few weeks off. What do you want from me guys? I've had a few weeks off.
[07:38.000 -> 07:43.680] But let's start with driver coaching. In fact we've had a great question from one of our patrons
[07:43.680 -> 07:48.240] Michael Holler here and I think this is a great question to start us off before we go into the coaching,
[07:48.240 -> 07:53.880] Brad. From a pro driver point of view, let's say you climbed from the sewers and eventually
[07:53.880 -> 07:58.480] made it to the pinnacle of F1, would you... Mind you, you're far too old for that now,
[07:58.480 -> 07:59.480] Brad. How old are you now?
[07:59.480 -> 08:02.720] I'm... I have to think about it, I'm 37.
[08:02.720 -> 08:03.720] 37.
[08:03.720 -> 08:05.600] I'm younger than the oldest F1 drivers,
[08:05.600 -> 08:09.920] but certainly not among the middle of the F1 drivers.
[08:09.920 -> 08:13.080] Yeah, no, when I first met you, you were full of potential.
[08:13.080 -> 08:15.360] You still could have legitimately climbed that ladder,
[08:15.360 -> 08:17.840] but are you probably too old to start on the,
[08:17.840 -> 08:21.400] that you'd be racing with 17 year olds in F3, wouldn't you?
[08:21.400 -> 08:23.720] Yes, I'm definitely far too old for anything
[08:23.720 -> 08:25.840] that doesn't have the wheels covered. Yep, that's, but yes, and I remember you once Yes, I'm definitely far too old for anything that doesn't have the wheels covered.
[08:25.840 -> 08:30.640] Yep, that's but yes, and I remember you once saying, hmm, when I get to my mid-30s, that's
[08:30.640 -> 08:36.480] the appropriate age for a GT driver, for a sports driver. Yeah, that's it. I mean, if I was to happen
[08:36.480 -> 08:43.200] upon a pot of money, I could definitely go and be a legitimate GT slash tin top driver for another
[08:43.200 -> 08:47.000] 10, 15 years without too much problem, but all the super
[08:47.000 -> 08:51.800] fast single seater sprinty kind of things are probably a bit beyond me nowadays.
[08:51.800 -> 08:55.440] So you're just like us, you're pretending too. Okay, let's pretend then, as Michael
[08:55.440 -> 09:00.760] asks you to do, to put yourselves in the shoes of two F1 drivers in 2023. Would you rather
[09:00.760 -> 09:05.440] be in Sergio Perez's position or in Fernando Alonso's position?
[09:06.400 -> 09:11.280] Oh, okay. That's a really interesting question. I'd rather be in Fernando Alonso's position,
[09:11.280 -> 09:17.840] I think. Perez is a driver who... I love how we're immediately on to F1 specifically. Perez is a
[09:17.840 -> 09:25.960] driver who has reached his potential. He's had an opportunity in a top team for a couple of years. We can argue about
[09:25.960 -> 09:30.860] exactly what car he gets versus Verstappen, but really we've had a chance to see what
[09:30.860 -> 09:35.460] Perez's ceiling is, and it's not good enough to be a world champion, and that's probably
[09:35.460 -> 09:39.560] quite obvious to anyone who watches Formula One. Whereas Alonso, although he's older and
[09:39.560 -> 09:52.240] you'd never want to throw away potential years of life if you're giving me this choice of who I want to be. Alonso has a higher ceiling and is probably more satisfied in his driving life because of it.
[09:52.240 -> 09:54.000] Mason
[09:54.000 -> 10:00.400] Well, so first of all, I think if you gave me a choice, I'd rather be Alonso because I think he's
[10:00.400 -> 10:12.080] a better driver than Perez. I'm more interested in being a better driver than I am winning things, which is my own particular weirdness. But I would change what Brad said
[10:12.080 -> 10:17.240] provocatively to with Max Verstappen as a teammate, because I think given a different
[10:17.240 -> 10:22.000] teammate, Perez could, certainly in the car as it presented itself last season, I think
[10:22.000 -> 10:25.580] Perez could absolutely win a world championship in it.
[10:26.660 -> 10:30.080] Okay, so that is a bit of a specific situation though,
[10:30.080 -> 10:33.180] because it's not very often that,
[10:33.180 -> 10:35.080] not really often that you're going to have an opportunity
[10:35.080 -> 10:37.920] to be in a really dominant car
[10:37.920 -> 10:40.960] and not have someone who's a top level driver next to you.
[10:40.960 -> 10:44.440] Because I'm not saying Perez can only not win in that car
[10:44.440 -> 10:49.240] because of teammates for Stappen. I think there's a number of other F1 drivers who if they were
[10:49.240 -> 10:54.360] paired up with Perez, Perez would finish second too. So it's not only this specific. If it's
[10:54.360 -> 10:58.400] Verstappen as your teammate, he can't win. I think it's if half the grid roughly were
[10:58.400 -> 11:00.080] his teammate, he wouldn't win.
[11:00.080 -> 11:03.840] Oh, that's a lot. I wouldn't say half, but we can have that argument. We can definitely
[11:03.840 -> 11:05.200] have that argument at some point.
[11:05.200 -> 11:07.200] You think Perez is in the top half of drivers?
[11:07.200 -> 11:13.440] Yes, I think Perez is in the top half of F1 drivers in the grid. Okay, well, I mean, the
[11:13.440 -> 11:19.040] statistics, like if you look at F1 drivers who have managed podiums from a car outside
[11:19.040 -> 11:24.000] of the top three teams, isn't he like number one in that statistic for the last 30 years?
[11:24.000 -> 11:30.800] isn't he like number one in that statistic for the last 30 years? Yeah Perez did, to his credit, do very very well in those lesser teams but you also never really
[11:30.800 -> 11:36.840] know how well that car could have done with an even better driver in it. So you know you never
[11:36.840 -> 11:41.800] know whether that car actually could have had even more podiums if Hamilton or Verstappen or
[11:41.800 -> 11:46.100] whoever was driving it. Well this is it it, because you could have that argument, couldn't you, with Sebastian Vettel and say,
[11:46.100 -> 11:51.400] well, Alonso, in that Red Bull, might have chased down Jenson Button in 2009,
[11:51.400 -> 11:57.800] and might have had an easier time in 2010, and not taken it quite to the line in 2012,
[11:57.800 -> 12:04.100] and been even more dominant. So I understand that argument, but, you know, just like with F1 champions,
[12:04.100 -> 12:06.240] if they win in multiple teams,
[12:06.240 -> 12:14.480] you start to think, no, there's definitely a connect here. Hamilton, he won at McLaren,
[12:14.480 -> 12:18.960] brought that to Mercedes, you go, that's a tick in his box. Vettel won four titles in a row at
[12:18.960 -> 12:25.280] Red Bull and then has done nothing in any other team since. You start to go, well, maybe the car had a bit more of a hand in that.
[12:25.280 -> 12:27.280] But, you know, with Perez, you know, he was,
[12:27.280 -> 12:30.920] he was looking like that kind of mid-field driver
[12:30.920 -> 12:34.480] at three different teams, at Sauber, at Racing Point,
[12:34.480 -> 12:38.560] and then the completely different Force India team.
[12:38.560 -> 12:41.000] They were all completely different teams
[12:41.000 -> 12:43.160] for the sake of this statistic.
[12:43.160 -> 12:47.920] Yeah, I'm not arguing that he's bad by any means. I just think he has a skill set which
[12:47.920 -> 12:53.920] worked very well in those situations he found himself in, in those cars and in that era.
[12:53.920 -> 12:58.760] And I think in my point of view, he's kind of just below the middle or kind of almost
[12:58.760 -> 13:04.320] bang on the middle of the current crop of drivers. If we're measuring skill in general
[13:04.320 -> 13:06.880] as a very basic measure and
[13:06.880 -> 13:07.880] not really going into specifics.
[13:07.880 -> 13:12.640] And I don't want to argue against myself, but I'm going to. The way he approaches races
[13:12.640 -> 13:16.880] is often going against the grain, like with the strategy a little bit. He's got a sort
[13:16.880 -> 13:21.000] of slightly different skill set to some of the other top drivers. Therefore, when conditions
[13:21.000 -> 13:25.720] work in your favour, you're going to pop up and get a kind of peaky result.
[13:25.720 -> 13:26.680] But when you're at the top,
[13:26.680 -> 13:31.560] you do need all your trump card boxes all maxed out
[13:31.560 -> 13:33.920] to be able to consistently be there performing.
[13:33.920 -> 13:35.160] And when you're in the midfield,
[13:35.160 -> 13:38.000] a lot of time people only pay attention to you
[13:38.000 -> 13:42.120] if you're crashing or getting that cheeky podium win,
[13:42.120 -> 13:43.920] which is possibly why Perez looked like a bit
[13:43.920 -> 13:45.040] of a miracle worker
[13:45.040 -> 13:49.420] in the midfield and, you know, didn't go too well at McLaren when he had a shot.
[13:49.420 -> 13:50.420] Who was he with there?
[13:50.420 -> 13:51.420] Button.
[13:51.420 -> 13:52.420] He's up against Button.
[13:52.420 -> 13:55.660] And then it's not looked too great against Verstappen either at the moment.
[13:55.660 -> 13:57.800] But yeah, I still say top half, Matt.
[13:57.800 -> 13:58.800] He's been unreasonable.
[13:58.800 -> 14:01.460] I don't even want to talk about all the coaching stuff now.
[14:01.460 -> 14:02.460] Super upset.
[14:02.460 -> 14:09.160] Well, I'm not even sure top half is a correct metric for could they win a championship,
[14:09.160 -> 14:15.420] because we certainly at Red Bull not seen Perez being the quote-unquote favorite driver.
[14:15.420 -> 14:21.000] But what we did see is early in the 22 season when the car suited him better than Verstappen,
[14:21.000 -> 14:25.760] he won a race and had a clear enough advantage over the rest of the field. For me, it's easy enough to extrapolate that were he put in Verstappen, he won a race and had a clear enough advantage over the rest of the field.
[14:25.760 -> 14:29.800] For me, it's easy enough to extrapolate that where he put in Verstappen's position, where
[14:29.800 -> 14:35.300] he was the focus of the team, where they set up a car and designed a car that worked best
[14:35.300 -> 14:40.400] with his driving style, that he could have enough of a car advantage, and he's a good
[14:40.400 -> 14:45.280] enough driver, that winning a world championship is absolutely not beyond
[14:45.280 -> 14:46.280] him.
[14:46.280 -> 14:47.960] Yeah, if it's tuned for you.
[14:47.960 -> 14:52.920] Because I think, for example, we don't really know how good Mark Webber could have been
[14:52.920 -> 14:57.600] in that Red Bull, because everything was focused, and you know, everything was focused a lot
[14:57.600 -> 15:02.160] towards Sebastian Vettel, even if on paper they had the same car, which I don't think
[15:02.160 -> 15:03.480] they did.
[15:03.480 -> 15:09.200] We could get into this argument all day long. It could run another hour. All I want to say is, in response to Holler's question,
[15:10.320 -> 15:16.080] there is a non-zero chance of Perez having a run at the World Championship in 2023.
[15:16.080 -> 15:20.320] There is literally no chance that Aston Martin are coming out and producing a
[15:20.320 -> 15:24.560] World Driver Champion this year. So I will pick Perez and I'll be in his position.
[15:24.560 -> 15:25.440] a world driver champion this year. So I will pick Perez and I'll be in his position.
[15:32.160 -> 15:36.800] Fair enough. I think I'm with Matt in that I would like to know that I'd rather know I was better and maybe you don't have as many trophies on the shelf to show for it, but I think
[15:37.360 -> 15:43.680] deep down you will be more satisfied with yourself. And you know, Alonso's made other
[15:43.680 -> 15:46.400] errors in his career in terms of team choice and
[15:46.400 -> 15:50.400] that kind of thing and he probably doesn't feel satisfied about those things, but in terms of the
[15:50.400 -> 15:56.320] talent end of the spectrum, he probably can sleep quite well at night and that's the one I would
[15:56.320 -> 16:06.760] rather take. Enough of this slander. It's possible Michael Holler asked that question just to provoke me.
[16:06.760 -> 16:11.200] But nevertheless, let's get on to the coaching side of things and I think we kick off with
[16:11.200 -> 16:16.000] a great question from another patron, patreon.com forward slash miss Apex, by the way, if you
[16:16.000 -> 16:17.800] want to support us this season.
[16:17.800 -> 16:23.200] Rob Asher asks, what does Brad think about the concept of F1 drivers having dedicated
[16:23.200 -> 16:24.600] driver coaches?
[16:24.600 -> 16:26.960] Coaches. the concept of F1 drivers having dedicated driver coaches. Not many seem to have coaches,
[16:26.960 -> 16:34.320] and there is perhaps a perceived stigma against using them. And that's actually quite an
[16:34.320 -> 16:39.440] interesting concept, because you would think an F1 driver, by the time they get to that point,
[16:39.440 -> 16:43.840] I mean, they know how to drive, but top tennis players all have a coach that goes with them.
[16:43.840 -> 16:45.100] What do you think, Brad?
[16:45.100 -> 16:51.360] Yeah, so this is something which I don't think has been explored enough or frequently enough
[16:51.360 -> 16:58.260] in motorsport over the years. And you're right, other sports have top sports people with coaches
[16:58.260 -> 17:02.820] and they don't necessarily need the coach to be better than the sport we're talking
[17:02.820 -> 17:06.320] about or have been better in their prime.
[17:06.320 -> 17:11.120] That isn't the most important thing, but I think in motorsport we have this idea that,
[17:11.120 -> 17:15.760] well, if this person that's teaching me isn't quicker, if they can't jump in this car right now
[17:15.760 -> 17:20.880] and lap a second quicker than me, I've got nothing to learn from them. And that just isn't what a
[17:20.880 -> 17:25.840] coach is necessarily about. In a way it is, but that's a bit more of an instructor.
[17:25.840 -> 17:29.480] So my role as a coach slash instructor over the years
[17:29.480 -> 17:31.760] has been a big combination of both of these.
[17:31.760 -> 17:34.520] A lot of the time I'll have been sat next to someone
[17:34.520 -> 17:36.040] literally telling them when to break,
[17:36.040 -> 17:38.280] when to turn in and the basics like that.
[17:38.280 -> 17:41.640] But when you're coaching a professional
[17:41.640 -> 17:43.960] or someone who is a semi-professional,
[17:43.960 -> 17:47.640] it's a different kind of world. You're not
[17:47.640 -> 17:53.360] teaching them exactly what to do, but it's more getting them to reflect on bigger concepts
[17:53.360 -> 17:58.500] and trying to make sure they're extracting the maximum of the ability they already have
[17:58.500 -> 18:03.420] and not leaving some things, leaving some stones unturned that they might have done
[18:03.420 -> 18:08.160] had they been left on their own. So it doesn't really require you to be better
[18:08.160 -> 18:09.880] than that person, faster than them,
[18:09.880 -> 18:12.320] although it definitely helps probably if you are.
[18:12.320 -> 18:14.360] You're unlikely to find an F1 driver coach
[18:14.360 -> 18:16.840] who is going to be quicker than the F1 driver,
[18:16.840 -> 18:18.780] but they've probably got a lot of experience to call on
[18:18.780 -> 18:22.640] from when they maybe were more that end of the-
[18:22.640 -> 18:24.320] I can think of one instant example,
[18:24.320 -> 18:27.440] which is Anthony Davison being hired to teach Lance
[18:27.440 -> 18:29.680] Stroll before his F1 debut.
[18:30.320 -> 18:36.960] Yes, exactly. Because being fast today, right now in the test session we're in, that relies
[18:36.960 -> 18:42.560] on lots of things. Your current fitness, your experience level in that particular car, what
[18:42.560 -> 18:45.040] your aims are, how much you can afford to pay
[18:45.040 -> 18:49.840] for the crash damage, etc. But the coach isn't in that position. The coach is there to make sure,
[18:49.840 -> 18:55.120] like I said, you're getting the maximum performance you can yourself, and to maybe
[18:55.120 -> 19:01.520] take more of a wider overall view of the situation and keep pointing you or nudging you in the right
[19:01.520 -> 19:06.120] direction. And that's where it differs a little bit from the instructor.
[19:06.120 -> 19:08.240] Yeah, very similar in music as well, Matt.
[19:08.240 -> 19:09.560] Obviously Mrs. Spanners, you know,
[19:09.560 -> 19:11.360] teaches everyone from kids
[19:11.360 -> 19:13.680] and then will vocal coach for touring bands.
[19:13.680 -> 19:17.060] And that singer might have a much more powerful voice,
[19:17.060 -> 19:18.400] but it's the experience.
[19:18.400 -> 19:21.580] Coaching is like a specific art in itself.
[19:21.580 -> 19:22.880] Yeah, and to be clear,
[19:22.880 -> 19:24.440] we're sort of delineating here
[19:24.440 -> 19:26.560] between instructor and coaching.
[19:26.560 -> 19:31.120] And I'd argue one of the reasons we don't see a lot of quote unquote coaches in Formula
[19:31.120 -> 19:37.280] One is because in many ways, the race engineer plays that role every weekend because they
[19:37.280 -> 19:42.440] examine telemetry and they can tell the driver exactly what if the other driver is faster,
[19:42.440 -> 19:45.280] they can look and say, okay, well, you need to brake later,
[19:45.280 -> 19:47.080] you're putting too much steering angle in,
[19:47.080 -> 19:49.760] it's too much grub on the tires, too much slip angle,
[19:49.760 -> 19:53.040] and the driver is expected to respond to that.
[19:53.040 -> 19:56.080] When they can't, that's where someone coaching
[19:56.080 -> 19:58.140] might be useful.
[19:58.140 -> 19:59.980] And one of the things that you learn
[19:59.980 -> 20:02.320] in your junior driving career is,
[20:02.320 -> 20:07.160] is to kind of coach yourself by looking through the data, trying to spot areas
[20:07.160 -> 20:09.280] in the data and working with your engineers
[20:09.280 -> 20:11.160] to find what you could have done better.
[20:11.160 -> 20:13.680] So as long as you care about being better,
[20:13.680 -> 20:15.640] you're always effectively doing a little bit
[20:15.640 -> 20:18.760] of self-coaching, but that won't fill in
[20:18.760 -> 20:21.400] for the role of the professional driver coach
[20:21.400 -> 20:24.240] where they'll get your mindset aimed
[20:24.240 -> 20:25.680] a little bit more correctly.
[20:25.680 -> 20:30.080] The engineer who's looking at exactly how many degrees of steering lock or how many bar of brake
[20:30.080 -> 20:34.320] pressure you applied compared to your teammate, they might not have the experience or almost
[20:34.320 -> 20:38.640] certainly don't have the experience of being a high level driver and what that driver's going
[20:38.640 -> 20:44.080] through as a mental process necessarily. And the coach's role, depending on how much input an
[20:44.080 -> 20:48.400] engineer was having and how much the driver is proactive, because this does vary a lot between drivers,
[20:49.200 -> 20:54.560] the coach's role will be a little bit broad, but certainly help keep the driver focused on the
[20:54.560 -> 21:00.480] right things rather than being specific in saying, you need to use four degrees more steering lock
[21:00.480 -> 21:07.320] at the hairpin. So I know a lot of the drivers famously have good relationships with a trainer, and I guess
[21:07.320 -> 21:13.160] that's something different. So, Lewis Hamilton has Angela, I've forgotten the surname, and
[21:13.160 -> 21:19.400] Carlos Sainz brought his trainer over from McLaren, but that's different to a driver
[21:19.400 -> 21:20.960] coach, isn't it?
[21:20.960 -> 21:26.000] It is, although I bet they fill quite a lot of the same kind of roles.
[21:26.000 -> 21:30.400] And I bet some of the reason why we don't see as many driver coaches, or certainly don't
[21:30.400 -> 21:33.400] hear about them, is because the driving itself.
[21:33.400 -> 21:38.560] Because so few people have actually raced a Formula One car at super high level in one
[21:38.560 -> 21:46.000] race, maybe the drivers feel like the driving side of things itself, it doesn't need addressing
[21:46.000 -> 21:47.000] specifically.
[21:47.000 -> 21:51.400] And as long as they've got a good trainer or a good mentor, who maybe
[21:51.400 -> 21:55.200] isn't necessarily a professional driver, maybe they fill enough of that
[21:55.200 -> 21:57.900] role and the driver can be proactive enough, as we were saying, you know,
[21:57.900 -> 22:01.600] looking at their own data, working with the engineers, that they just
[22:01.600 -> 22:02.600] don't feel the need for it.
[22:02.600 -> 22:05.080] So maybe in some cases that works just fine.
[22:05.080 -> 22:08.640] Well, I mean, based on my own musical experience,
[22:08.640 -> 22:11.160] like you do reach a certain level of professionalism
[22:11.160 -> 22:14.560] where you don't necessarily take a lesson every week,
[22:14.560 -> 22:18.960] but you will occasionally go to other people and play
[22:18.960 -> 22:23.120] to get feedback, to get a different set of ears on what you're doing
[22:23.120 -> 22:29.600] and maybe be exposed to some new concepts or exercises or techniques that you weren't aware of in an effort to
[22:29.600 -> 22:32.080] continually improve yourself.
[22:32.080 -> 22:38.440] So it wouldn't surprise me if from time to time F1 drivers might quietly reach out to
[22:38.440 -> 22:43.360] people they know and trust and ask if they're in a position where despite having all that
[22:43.360 -> 22:45.360] data and telemetry they can't quite achieve what they're in a position where, despite having all that data and telemetry, they can't quite
[22:46.480 -> 22:52.640] achieve what they're after. And so that would be my supposition as to why we don't see more
[22:53.280 -> 22:54.400] talked about in the sport.
[22:55.120 -> 22:58.880] I think a really good example of where something like this might have been useful,
[22:58.880 -> 23:01.920] and maybe it was employed, I don't know the ins and outs of it,
[23:01.920 -> 23:09.040] is the Daniel Ricciardo situation over the last couple of years, where all of the data in the world and all of the efforts of the team looking
[23:09.040 -> 23:13.280] into the specifics of the problem couldn't get to the bottom of it. There was clearly
[23:13.280 -> 23:18.080] some other underlying issue. And maybe a driver coach wouldn't have helped to uncover that,
[23:18.080 -> 23:22.240] but that's certainly the kind of thing where someone who's kind of dug themselves into
[23:22.240 -> 23:26.640] a hole, they've looked through the data, they can see their teammate is doing a certain thing,
[23:26.640 -> 23:28.980] but they can't make themselves do it.
[23:28.980 -> 23:31.160] Maybe kind of scraping back to basics,
[23:31.160 -> 23:32.360] kind of peeling away all the layers
[23:32.360 -> 23:33.560] and starting from scratch
[23:33.560 -> 23:36.920] and understanding why we do certain things as a driver
[23:36.920 -> 23:38.760] and really understanding your own driving.
[23:38.760 -> 23:41.760] And I think Ricardo actually said he had done this.
[23:41.760 -> 23:43.160] Maybe that could have helped.
[23:43.160 -> 23:47.120] Well, I saw the quote that said he saw, he could see it on the data, but he couldn't
[23:47.120 -> 23:52.400] make it do that. So I guess we take it on faith that he had access to the same cars.
[23:52.400 -> 23:58.440] But it does seem strange that in a top, you know, historically top Formula One team with
[23:58.440 -> 24:03.760] a very talented driver and all the data available, all their coaches and strategists, that they
[24:03.760 -> 24:08.160] couldn't get someone like Daniel Ricciardo to close such a big gap. Either
[24:08.160 -> 24:13.620] says Lando Norris is a phenomenon like the likes of which Formula One has never
[24:13.620 -> 24:17.420] seen before, or there was something else going on behind the background. And I
[24:17.420 -> 24:21.420] don't want to start any conspiracy theories. All I want to say is if Daniel
[24:21.420 -> 24:27.040] Ricciardo writes a book, my time at McLaren, I'm going to buy
[24:27.040 -> 24:31.040] that immediately, because I want to know what was going on.
[24:31.040 -> 24:32.040] I don't know.
[24:32.040 -> 24:36.240] I love conspiracy theories, just like everyone else, because I'm heavily invested in tinfoil.
[24:36.240 -> 24:43.280] But nevertheless, to me, it's a question of Ricciardo, absolute veteran, has been doing
[24:43.280 -> 24:46.480] the same thing the same way for an awful long
[24:46.480 -> 24:47.480] time.
[24:47.480 -> 24:51.940] Lando was literally, as a driver, born in that car.
[24:51.940 -> 24:54.740] And as an F1 driver, that is.
[24:54.740 -> 25:01.100] And it's really hard, if you're used to doing a thing you don't ever think about ever, to
[25:01.100 -> 25:04.940] be suddenly told, well, you have to now go live in opposite land and do it exactly the
[25:04.940 -> 25:11.880] opposite. And it's hard because it's more than just physically, oh, I'm going to press
[25:11.880 -> 25:16.080] less hard. There's a whole lot that goes into it. And the more you think, the slower your
[25:16.080 -> 25:20.360] processing time, the slower your processing time, the slower your reflexes, the slower
[25:20.360 -> 25:22.480] your reflexes, the slower your lap time.
[25:22.480 -> 25:25.600] Yeah, I guess we'll get a really good direct comparison
[25:25.600 -> 25:28.240] because we'll see Perez in the car in Barcelona,
[25:28.240 -> 25:30.740] and then we'll see Ricciardo in the car in whatever
[25:30.740 -> 25:31.960] the race is after that.
[25:31.960 -> 25:35.120] So we'll get a direct comparison to see how he's doing
[25:35.120 -> 25:37.060] and how his driver's style compares.
[25:37.060 -> 25:38.480] But this is what I want to get to.
[25:38.480 -> 25:42.840] I want to sort of go from F1, maybe down a notch or two,
[25:42.840 -> 25:47.760] Brad, because the margins with those guys must be so, so
[25:47.760 -> 25:54.160] small. Like they are already so close to their potential, but perhaps pay drivers aside.
[25:54.160 -> 25:59.000] So where's the step down where you think, right, here's where I could be kind of most
[25:59.000 -> 26:04.000] useful because there's got to be a zone where it becomes... someone's good enough that it
[26:04.000 -> 26:06.480] becomes very hard to coach them and then you
[26:06.480 -> 26:11.600] will go all the way down to the likes of me and Matt where anytime you sit with us I gain a second
[26:11.600 -> 26:17.840] just from you talking me through a lap. Yes, so I was thinking exactly this when we're talking
[26:17.840 -> 26:22.400] about Formula One drivers I'm not an F1 driver coach if I was I can imagine there would be a
[26:22.400 -> 26:28.420] lot of situations where you'd be suggesting things to the drivers or you just couldn't find anything to suggest, but
[26:28.420 -> 26:31.920] you were suggesting things and they go, yeah, I've already tried that. Whereas the further
[26:31.920 -> 26:37.820] we move down the professionalism ladder, the skill ladder, the experience ladder, the much
[26:37.820 -> 26:51.040] easier your job as an instructor slash coach becomes because there's just more to gain in every area. Or even just in terms of experience, that the more that driver will drive, the more the person
[26:51.040 -> 26:55.920] you're coaching drives, the more you'd hope they will naturally get fast even without your help.
[26:56.480 -> 27:00.960] But your job is to make sure that they're doing it correctly from the outset and that they're
[27:00.960 -> 27:06.720] making the gains as efficiently as possible. They're not wasting 20 track days to find one 10th of a second when you
[27:06.720 -> 27:10.240] could find them a whole second in one track day, as an example.
[27:10.420 -> 27:12.040] And so you asked where the balance is.
[27:12.040 -> 27:16.120] Well, really the balance is the lower down, the less the experience level,
[27:16.240 -> 27:19.720] the more useful a coach or instructor can be.
[27:19.800 -> 27:22.680] And the more of an instructor it becomes, because certainly when you're
[27:22.920 -> 27:28.920] talking about someone who has quite low levels of experience or low levels of experience in a particular series
[27:28.920 -> 27:34.040] or car or type of racing, whether it's karting or sim racing or whatever, the more help you
[27:34.040 -> 27:38.720] can be. You've just got more to say. And that's really probably when it's most fun for everyone
[27:38.720 -> 27:39.720] involved.
[27:39.720 -> 27:44.080] Well, I had actually a question along those lines, although I do want to say from my musical
[27:44.080 -> 27:46.440] teaching perspective, I agree completely.
[27:46.440 -> 27:48.980] The most important thing is putting the horn on your face.
[27:48.980 -> 27:51.300] If you do that every day, you eventually get better.
[27:51.300 -> 27:53.320] But a good teacher, a good coach,
[27:53.320 -> 27:56.080] will get you better so much quicker,
[27:56.080 -> 27:59.680] and therefore it becomes a lot more rewarding much sooner.
[27:59.680 -> 28:00.760] But I wanted to ask,
[28:00.760 -> 28:03.360] and not at risk of destroying your business
[28:03.360 -> 28:04.400] before it started,
[28:04.400 -> 28:05.160] but do you find
[28:05.160 -> 28:11.560] there's like a specific area that most, well, let's take people like myself and Spanners.
[28:11.560 -> 28:14.600] For me, basically, I'm still a beginner as far as I think about it.
[28:14.600 -> 28:16.720] There's a lot that I don't know.
[28:16.720 -> 28:21.000] Is there just a general area after all the time you spent sitting next to people with
[28:21.000 -> 28:26.640] our level of skill that is the most common place you can quickly find people time?
[28:26.640 -> 28:33.280] RL Yes, although there are several areas which all are very high on the list, they come up very,
[28:33.280 -> 28:39.200] very frequently. If I had to pick just one, it would be something that Spanners himself has
[28:39.200 -> 28:44.240] experience of because we went through this exact process when I gave him a bit of cart coaching,
[28:44.240 -> 28:47.440] and it's in terms of using as much track as possible.
[28:47.440 -> 28:49.600] It's amazing how many people you sit next to,
[28:49.600 -> 28:53.160] even who have driven a particular track a lot of times,
[28:53.160 -> 28:54.480] you know, they know the track very well,
[28:54.480 -> 28:56.280] they know exactly where the next corner goes,
[28:56.280 -> 28:58.960] they know what the rough racing line is,
[28:58.960 -> 29:01.920] and they might've done multiple races at that venue.
[29:01.920 -> 29:05.280] It's amazing how many of those people could use more track.
[29:05.460 -> 29:06.120] They just don't.
[29:06.380 -> 29:08.120] And it's because it's never been pointed out to them.
[29:08.400 -> 29:12.300] They've been giving away lap time, every single lap, every single corner.
[29:12.840 -> 29:14.160] Every time they've driven that track.
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[30:46.820 -> 30:50.260] What's the difference between a team radio and a team matchup?
[30:50.260 -> 30:54.160] Well, I wonder, even in F1, I do wonder sometimes you hear the,
[30:54.160 -> 30:59.160] when you hear the team radio, because I've started listening to the F1 live
[30:59.160 -> 31:01.660] when I was in a country where it was legal to do so,
[31:01.660 -> 31:05.680] and you could hear, you can tune in and hear all the radio messages.
[31:05.680 -> 31:10.560] And the amount of times the driver, coach, or I guess the, what do they call it, the team engineer
[31:11.200 -> 31:15.360] is on the radio saying, you know, take a little bit more kerb here, brake a little bit earlier
[31:15.360 -> 31:21.520] there. So I think even F1 drivers at low speeds miss things. But as a rank amateur, I remember
[31:21.520 -> 31:27.760] one time I was following you around a right-hander and suddenly, you know,
[31:27.760 -> 31:31.760] your left-hand tyre was on track, your right-hand tyres were on the grass. I'm like, what? How are
[31:31.760 -> 31:36.960] you driving on the grass? And you said, well, there's no weight on that tyre and I don't care
[31:36.960 -> 31:43.360] if it was ice or polar bears, all the weight is on the left-hand side. And that suddenly,
[31:43.360 -> 31:45.680] that made the track a meter wider.
[31:45.680 -> 31:49.920] And there's all sorts of things from watching you that it would not even have occurred to me
[31:49.920 -> 31:54.720] to do that. And in fact, at one karting track, we had you as an in-ear monitor.
[31:55.680 -> 31:58.800] That was me cheating and getting some coaching before a Missed Apex karting event.
[31:59.840 -> 32:04.160] We made them change the barrier in the end because you were getting me to take such advantage
[32:04.160 -> 32:07.540] on the kerbs that they moved the barriers to stop doing it.
[32:07.540 -> 32:10.000] But that's just something that race drivers see
[32:10.000 -> 32:11.800] that muggles don't.
[32:11.800 -> 32:14.360] And to just kind of highlight how,
[32:14.360 -> 32:16.040] sometimes how difficult it is to get people
[32:16.040 -> 32:19.440] out of these habits and why it is important
[32:19.440 -> 32:23.040] to not just let someone who doesn't necessarily
[32:23.040 -> 32:26.000] know what they're doing practice the wrong thing
[32:26.000 -> 32:30.600] over and over. You know, Matt said the best thing is just to just to practice, but it
[32:30.600 -> 32:35.640] helps to be pointed in the right direction. The earlier you can get someone into the correct
[32:35.640 -> 32:39.680] style or technique in a certain area, and if we're talking about using all the track,
[32:39.680 -> 32:44.600] that's a big one, the easier they'll find it as they, as they go forward. I was coaching
[32:44.600 -> 32:45.120] someone a couple of
[32:45.120 -> 32:47.840] days ago, and I won't name them, they're probably listening to this podcast actually.
[32:47.840 -> 32:48.840] Hi, Derek.
[32:48.840 -> 32:53.160] This was some online coaching, and probably the most obvious thing I noticed was this
[32:53.160 -> 32:58.040] exact phenomenon. Not using enough track width on the approach to certain corners, and we
[32:58.040 -> 33:01.360] watched replays, I showed them what I was doing, I showed them what they were doing,
[33:01.360 -> 33:09.280] it's pretty obvious difference, and we then set about doing their next session. And immediately, they weren't using all the track again. They knew they were
[33:09.280 -> 33:14.320] supposed to. They had me in their ear saying, right, now you go further to the left. No further,
[33:14.320 -> 33:18.720] further. And they still kept doing the same thing as before. And they were quite apologetic. And
[33:18.720 -> 33:24.480] they obviously weren't trying to ignore me. It just shows you how hard it is to break the cycle.
[33:24.480 -> 33:25.760] Even when you've only begun
[33:25.760 -> 33:30.400] practicing, you know, this isn't a super experienced driver, they're not totally ingrained, set in their
[33:30.400 -> 33:34.800] ways, but the longer you become set in your ways, the harder it is then to fix those problems later.
[33:34.800 -> 33:40.000] So all the more reason to get an instructor or a driver coach to start off on the right foot.
[33:40.000 -> 33:46.560] Jason Vale The problem is we all drive and, you know, as motorsport fans, we all drive a car and
[33:46.560 -> 33:51.560] we all take our shopping trolley, you know, down to Tesco's and take the apex coming out
[33:51.560 -> 33:57.680] of the fruit and veg aisle into the cold meats and delicatessen counter.
[33:57.680 -> 33:59.720] And it's hard to shake that habit.
[33:59.720 -> 34:08.880] So like you've been an instructor at a world-famous track day venue and I went to one where my wife
[34:08.880 -> 34:13.840] bought me a ticket for a single-seater experience and I was behind people who were literally
[34:13.840 -> 34:19.920] driving a single-seater car, I think it was the Formula Silverstones on the Stowe Circuit,
[34:19.920 -> 34:24.000] and they were literally driving it like you would a road car, you know, braking nice and gently to
[34:24.000 -> 34:28.480] the junction, i.e. the corner, and then kind of feeding the wheel and getting
[34:28.480 -> 34:32.040] away. And it's, you have to get away from that mindset because you're so ingrained in
[34:32.040 -> 34:36.640] this is how you drive a vehicle that they're not attacking a corner. Is it difficult to
[34:36.640 -> 34:44.360] get, you know, a middle manager or a barista or an IT clerk to sit there and attack a corner
[34:44.360 -> 34:45.120] like a race driver.
[34:45.120 -> 34:51.280] Yeah, everything you've said there is a thing that I've come up against in my instructing life.
[34:51.280 -> 34:57.720] And it is that the fact that someone has driven to the track and they might have been driving
[34:57.720 -> 35:04.040] for 30 or 40 years in some cases on the road, and maybe sports cars as well. So they have a,
[35:04.040 -> 35:06.600] they have way too much of a connection
[35:06.600 -> 35:09.000] between the road driving and the track driving
[35:09.000 -> 35:11.680] and think things that they would do on the road
[35:11.680 -> 35:13.120] are relevant to the track.
[35:13.120 -> 35:15.360] And in reality, there's very, very little,
[35:15.360 -> 35:18.000] apart from the fact that some of the controls
[35:18.000 -> 35:19.040] are in the same place,
[35:19.040 -> 35:20.200] the steering wheels in front of you,
[35:20.200 -> 35:21.960] the pedals are done with your feet.
[35:21.960 -> 35:24.640] Even the pedals aren't necessarily done with the same foot
[35:24.640 -> 35:29.760] as you're used to doing them with on the road. And the reason you do certain things is entirely
[35:29.760 -> 35:34.160] different. The reason you hold the steering wheel in a certain way on the road, for example,
[35:34.160 -> 35:38.480] might be because, you know, you might feed the wheel so your hands are always near an indicator,
[35:38.480 -> 35:42.800] or so you're very smooth and slow with the steering and progressive. On a track, you need
[35:42.800 -> 35:47.680] your hands in a certain position on the steering wheel so you always know where the wheels are pointed and you never let go from
[35:47.680 -> 35:52.320] that position. You don't have any indicators to worry about. The importance is in a totally
[35:52.320 -> 35:57.280] different area. And obviously you brake a lot harder on a track, you're not worried about...
[35:57.280 -> 36:02.000] there are no solid curbs like you get on the road for you to curb your alloy wheels on.
[36:02.880 -> 36:09.760] We want to use all the track. If you nibble edge of the grass. It's not a problem in most scenarios. There's so many things that are different that,
[36:10.320 -> 36:15.040] yes, quite often having a lot of road experience, which people would see as a positive for their
[36:15.040 -> 36:19.920] track driving, you know, they think, I'm good at driving, it's quite often totally the opposite.
[36:19.920 -> 36:24.880] And if you take a minor, if you take a 16 year old or 15 year old, I guess in America,
[36:24.880 -> 36:25.080] because I think they can drive quite early over there on the road. You take a minor, if you take a 16 year old, or 15 year old, I guess in America,
[36:25.080 -> 36:26.320] because I think they can drive quite early
[36:26.320 -> 36:27.160] over there on the road.
[36:27.160 -> 36:30.320] If you take a kid who's physically big enough
[36:30.320 -> 36:33.600] to drive a car, but has no preconceptions whatsoever
[36:33.600 -> 36:36.680] about how to drive a car, it's quite often easier
[36:36.680 -> 36:40.920] to instruct that person than it is to instruct their parents
[36:40.920 -> 36:41.920] or a much older person.
[36:41.920 -> 36:44.280] I remember instructing, it would have been
[36:44.280 -> 36:45.120] Roman Abramovich,
[36:45.120 -> 36:48.640] I believe, was a football team owner, wealthy chap.
[36:48.640 -> 36:49.680] Mason- Yeah, Chelsea, yeah.
[36:49.680 -> 36:52.240] Steve- Chelsea owner, I don't know whether he still is, I've got no idea.
[36:52.240 -> 36:53.840] Mason- Not since recent events.
[36:53.840 -> 36:58.720] Steve- Oh yes, of course. Anyway, I instructed his son in a Ferrari when his son was 14,
[36:59.280 -> 37:02.800] and he was really good because he just listened to what I told him to do
[37:02.800 -> 37:05.520] and didn't try and think about it
[37:05.520 -> 37:08.880] any more than how to get around a track.
[37:08.880 -> 37:14.520] Okay, so look guys, I just want to be clear here. I have an ulterior motive. There's something
[37:14.520 -> 37:20.320] in it for me to say to people, go along to bradleyphilpott.com forward slash coaching
[37:20.320 -> 37:24.520] because I've effectively had Brad's ear and have been able to ask him driving questions
[37:24.520 -> 37:26.280] for the last seven years.
[37:26.280 -> 37:27.760] I know you don't like Kota,
[37:27.760 -> 37:30.680] so you don't want to coach me to win the next F3 round.
[37:30.680 -> 37:31.880] It's actually not because of that.
[37:31.880 -> 37:33.760] I'm away kart racing for a weekend.
[37:33.760 -> 37:35.040] So I'm testing at one track
[37:35.040 -> 37:36.240] and then racing at a different track
[37:36.240 -> 37:37.300] on the other side of the country,
[37:37.300 -> 37:38.400] but I would have done it otherwise.
[37:38.400 -> 37:39.800] Here's an interesting thing.
[37:39.800 -> 37:41.760] How long do you think it would take you
[37:41.760 -> 37:46.000] to coach my 12 year old to be able to beat me
[37:46.000 -> 37:48.800] or beat my time?
[37:48.800 -> 37:53.120] He already has a little bit of experience, a reasonable amount of experience in a sim.
[37:53.120 -> 37:57.880] So I wouldn't need to teach him the super basics. I imagine you've already passed on
[37:57.880 -> 37:58.880] a lot of positive things.
[37:58.880 -> 38:04.080] Oh yes, I'm an excellent coach, yes. And terrible habits of mine as well, I suppose.
[38:04.080 -> 38:08.080] Potentially. He also is a big motorsport fan, isn't he, because of you. So he will
[38:08.080 -> 38:15.120] understand a lot more than the average person would of his age. I think it's definitely possible,
[38:15.120 -> 38:20.560] given some time, I could coach him to be better than you, but a lot of what that would depend
[38:20.560 -> 38:26.240] on would be how much he wants to. Because as with all sports or skills,
[38:26.240 -> 38:33.040] the determination or the desire of the participant, the person being taught, has a massive amount
[38:33.040 -> 38:35.400] of an effect on the ultimate outcome.
[38:35.400 -> 38:39.920] Well, if you message him and say, I reckon I could get you to beat your dad's time in
[38:39.920 -> 38:44.920] an F3 on iRacing, he will definitely see that as motivation more than anything else. So
[38:44.920 -> 38:46.640] that's, I'm going to try and cash that in, guys.
[38:46.640 -> 38:51.700] So just so you know, I am benefiting personally by asking you to go to BradfieldPot.com forward
[38:51.700 -> 38:52.700] slash coaching.
[38:52.700 -> 38:54.240] The link will be in the show notes below.
[38:54.240 -> 38:55.240] Matt.
[38:55.240 -> 39:00.080] Well, I was going to pose more interesting... and I want to say, like, what you're talking
[39:00.080 -> 39:04.800] about with older drivers, can we just call that the Ricardo effect from now on?
[39:04.800 -> 39:05.040] Because I think
[39:05.040 -> 39:11.520] that's really what you're dealing with. But I noticed, and not to make this too personal there,
[39:11.520 -> 39:18.400] Spanners, but that at our last spa race, you and I were much more of a similar pace.
[39:19.280 -> 39:26.800] But after yesterday's practice, now that you're back with your fancy equipment, you are once again a bit faster than me.
[39:26.800 -> 39:29.500] So a slightly different question.
[39:29.500 -> 39:36.600] Do you think it's possible for someone as old and set in my ways as I am to reduce that
[39:36.600 -> 39:37.600] equipment gap?
[39:37.600 -> 39:41.160] Because I'm not getting any of that fancy equipment anytime soon, unfortunately.
[39:41.160 -> 39:47.120] And let's forget more people supporting us at patreon.com forward slash miss apex.
[39:47.120 -> 39:51.920] So your question is, is it possible to get you better with the equipment that you've
[39:51.920 -> 39:58.400] currently got to reduce that gap? I mean, ultimately, if it's physically possible to
[39:58.400 -> 40:06.720] do faster lap times with the kit you've got, which I assume it is, then theoretically this is something that
[40:06.720 -> 40:07.720] can be done.
[40:07.720 -> 40:12.120] You only have to look at Kyle Power, who's faster than all of us, not you, Brad, but
[40:12.120 -> 40:14.400] us, with very basic kit.
[40:14.400 -> 40:20.440] I think the difficulty is how much you rely on the feedback that the better equipment
[40:20.440 -> 40:25.480] can give you. I know for a fact, while Spanners was away on his European travels,
[40:25.480 -> 40:32.760] he did some sim racing at a venue which wasn't using his own equipment. So it wasn't set
[40:32.760 -> 40:36.040] up for you, it probably wasn't as good as the equipment you normally have. And I know
[40:36.040 -> 40:40.720] for a fact if I was in that situation, I would be so much slower, I wouldn't want to do it.
[40:40.720 -> 40:46.280] Because I'm relying so much nowadays, certainly on the very strong feedback my simulator
[40:46.280 -> 40:51.000] wheel gives me, and how firm my pedals are. I've got fancy hydraulic pedals, all this
[40:51.000 -> 40:56.920] kind of thing. So I'm now used to the fact that I've got fancy, expensive equipment that
[40:56.920 -> 41:03.440] gives a lot of realistic feedback, and I would then struggle going to equipment which doesn't
[41:03.440 -> 41:05.440] give that same amount of feedback
[41:05.440 -> 41:08.720] and doesn't give me the sensations that I'm looking for.
[41:08.720 -> 41:11.080] So as long as you don't care so much about that,
[41:11.080 -> 41:13.080] as long as that's not crucial for you,
[41:13.080 -> 41:16.540] and some people are able to be extremely fast on simulators
[41:16.540 -> 41:18.720] on the much more basic, cheaper,
[41:18.720 -> 41:20.840] less well-developed equipment,
[41:20.840 -> 41:22.400] if that isn't such a problem for you
[41:22.400 -> 41:32.000] and you've got the time and you want to put in the effort to find that extra time, it's possible, but there will also be a limit to your skill at some point too.
[41:32.000 -> 41:35.000] Okay, fair enough. I appreciate that.
[41:35.000 -> 41:50.000] Okay, let's move on to another question here from a about driving styles in F1, just how big of a difference is there between drivers? People talk about the understeer and late braking, but I rarely
[41:50.000 -> 41:54.320] notice the difference on TV. I think we've had a go at trying to describe this in the
[41:54.320 -> 41:59.640] past before, but I know Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel used to talk about how one of them
[41:59.640 -> 42:05.360] veed a corner whilst another one carried speed. There would have been maybe more
[42:05.360 -> 42:10.680] variation in the olden days, maybe less so now. How much of a difference are we talking?
[42:10.680 -> 42:15.960] So unless we're looking at very extreme examples of these things, generally
[42:15.960 -> 42:20.000] when we're talking about the varying styles of an F1 driver, you're talking
[42:20.000 -> 42:23.720] about that within an extremely narrow margin. There might be, like I say,
[42:23.720 -> 42:30.160] specific examples where one driver goes a couple of metres wider than another on an approach to a corner, but
[42:30.160 -> 42:34.560] most situations when you're talking about someone who prefers a slightly oversteery
[42:34.560 -> 42:39.160] car or someone who prefers a slightly understeery car, etc, these kind of things you hear spoken
[42:39.160 -> 42:44.280] about on TV, they won't be something you can see on the TV. We're talking about differences
[42:44.280 -> 42:45.760] in the weight of the steering
[42:45.760 -> 42:48.160] at a very specific phase of the corner
[42:48.160 -> 42:50.200] by a couple of Newton meters different.
[42:50.200 -> 42:52.240] And one driver likes that feeling
[42:52.240 -> 42:53.960] because that's what they're looking for
[42:53.960 -> 42:55.800] as part of their formative years.
[42:55.800 -> 42:57.740] They will have just gone through series
[42:57.740 -> 43:00.600] and had setups in the teams that they were in
[43:00.600 -> 43:03.800] that relied more on certain traits from a car.
[43:03.800 -> 43:09.280] And they will have got used to that and then liked that. and then that's kind of baked in as part of their preferred style
[43:09.280 -> 43:12.960] or the preferred feedback they get from a car. And another driver will just have a very
[43:12.960 -> 43:17.000] slightly different experience, because everyone's route up through the ladder, the different
[43:17.000 -> 43:20.840] teams, the different cars they've driven, will be slightly different. And so there will
[43:20.840 -> 43:30.400] be some variation on what the driver sees as an ideal response from the car in different situations, but it will be in such a small percentage of difference that looking from
[43:30.400 -> 43:35.040] the outside, as I say, unless it's a big extreme obvious thing, which is quite rare, you're not
[43:35.040 -> 43:41.280] going to see it. Okay, I haven't gone and looked this up, but I do want to say with regard to lines
[43:41.280 -> 43:50.160] through corners, where you're talking about round lines versus Vs, there was a race where Carlos Sainz was chasing, I believe it was Sergio Perez,
[43:50.160 -> 43:54.480] and there was a sort of a final hairpin corner before a long straight, maybe Jetta.
[43:55.280 -> 43:59.600] And you could watch, because of the different car characteristics, you could see Perez make
[43:59.600 -> 44:06.200] a very round turn as he tried to maximize the speed through the corner because Red Bull wanted top speed, and
[44:07.080 -> 44:09.080] because the Ferrari wanted acceleration,
[44:09.480 -> 44:15.960] Sainz was literally stopping a quarter of the way into the turn, having it turned all the way around, and trying to get maximum
[44:16.140 -> 44:21.880] acceleration at the start to catch him. So you can occasionally see these differences on track.
[44:22.200 -> 44:25.840] The only thing I'd say with that example though is you've got two drivers
[44:25.840 -> 44:30.640] who may well have wanted to do what the other one was doing. It's just the fact that the car they're
[44:30.640 -> 44:34.800] in and the situation they're in, level of tire wear, the fact they're behind another car and
[44:34.800 -> 44:39.920] the aerodynamics are upset differently, or just the fact they're in very different cars, necessitated
[44:39.920 -> 44:44.720] driving it in a certain way to get the best out of that particular package. So I still don't think
[44:44.720 -> 44:48.000] you could really point to either of those and say they were driving style differences
[44:48.000 -> 44:53.560] between those drivers. It's more a case of that was what they needed to do in that situation.
[44:53.560 -> 44:57.240] If you flip their roles, they might have done the exact thing the other one was doing.
[44:57.240 -> 45:01.520] Yeah, I'm agreeing with you here. I think it's the car characteristics that demanded
[45:01.520 -> 45:08.920] them to drive that way, not that they prefer themselves. Because I think at a certain level, you drive the car you have, not the way you want.
[45:08.920 -> 45:15.040] Mason So as viewers, as fans, can we largely ignore
[45:15.040 -> 45:20.280] that kind of chat? Or are we talking really on the fine margins and more of a curiosity
[45:20.280 -> 45:21.280] and a footnote?
[45:21.280 -> 45:24.600] Steele There's definitely something to it. We saw
[45:24.600 -> 45:25.460] with Perez
[45:25.460 -> 45:29.580] versus Verstappen earlier in the year last year I think it was that Perez was
[45:29.580 -> 45:34.620] able to just deal with an understeery balance in general a bit more than
[45:34.620 -> 45:39.060] Verstappen was. He didn't hate it as much as Verstappen did and
[45:39.060 -> 45:44.060] Verstappen just preferred the car to be slightly more on the nose. I just don't
[45:44.060 -> 45:46.260] think it's really much of a visual thing
[45:46.260 -> 45:47.460] that we could tell from the outside.
[45:47.460 -> 45:49.980] You'd need to be behind the wheel, experiencing it,
[45:49.980 -> 45:51.860] feeling the weight of the steering
[45:51.860 -> 45:53.380] at various phases of the corner
[45:53.380 -> 45:55.420] and feeling how the car responds.
[45:55.420 -> 45:57.740] And it's kind of, when you're talking about
[45:57.740 -> 45:59.700] how light the steering gets at different points,
[45:59.700 -> 46:01.180] that's not a thing you can visually see.
[46:01.180 -> 46:04.580] We're not talking about big smoky moments of oversteer
[46:04.580 -> 46:05.120] or understeer
[46:05.120 -> 46:07.520] at various points, which are very visual.
[46:07.520 -> 46:13.760] Is it? Would this have been more easy to see, like going, you know, back maybe even to the
[46:13.760 -> 46:18.800] 70s? Or is this something that you could see when you were instructing or are instructing
[46:19.440 -> 46:25.800] on track or on sims? Can you see a driving style emerge then, for example?
[46:25.800 -> 46:28.520] Like, can you see that I have a driving style or Kyle or Matt?
[46:29.480 -> 46:34.000] Generally, if someone is far enough off the ultimate pace that, you know,
[46:34.000 -> 46:37.000] say they were one second off what the car could do, which would be quite a
[46:37.000 -> 46:41.840] typical region to be coaching or instructing someone at, then I don't,
[46:41.880 -> 46:45.880] I wouldn't care what their preferred style is. They're doing it wrong.
[46:45.880 -> 46:48.960] So they need to, until they are on the pace of what
[46:48.960 -> 46:50.920] other people could do in that same car,
[46:50.920 -> 46:53.880] their own preferred style is not relevant.
[46:53.880 -> 46:56.600] Because unless they're happy to go around
[46:56.600 -> 46:59.720] at the back of the grid, being happy that the car is slightly
[46:59.720 -> 47:02.760] more neutral or understeery or oversteery,
[47:02.760 -> 47:05.200] because that's how they prefer it, it doesn't really matter.
[47:05.200 -> 47:07.640] You need to drive the car how it needs to be driven.
[47:07.640 -> 47:10.280] Once you're at that point where you are able to lap
[47:10.280 -> 47:12.600] as quick as the car can go effectively,
[47:12.600 -> 47:14.880] or very near to it, then we can talk about,
[47:14.880 -> 47:16.720] you know, specific style preferences.
[47:16.720 -> 47:18.880] So our friend Danny Henney has asked
[47:18.880 -> 47:19.720] in our patron Slack group,
[47:19.720 -> 47:22.680] how would Brad describe his own driving style?
[47:22.680 -> 47:23.960] Smooth, aggressive?
[47:23.960 -> 47:25.040] What do you want from the car?
[47:25.040 -> 47:29.280] What does he personally need from the equipment to be fast? And you're someone who has driven
[47:29.280 -> 47:36.080] a vast variety of different race cars. Yeah, so I've had the kind of luxury in my
[47:36.080 -> 47:41.200] life of getting to drive everything from a Formula 3 car to a British Touring car,
[47:41.200 -> 47:50.000] Endurance GT cars. They all handle very, very differently. They all require a different kind of driving. But although I've been asked this before, it's difficult to answer
[47:50.000 -> 47:54.880] because ultimately, similar to my previous answer, you have to drive it whatever the fastest way is
[47:54.880 -> 47:59.360] for that car to be driven. But Danny is onto something in his question there. What do you
[47:59.360 -> 48:10.080] need from the car to get the best out of yourself? And I would say I'm a driver who likes the car to get the best out of yourself. And I would say I'm a driver who likes the car to be very neutral, as in, just do what I'm saying. You know, when I turn the wheel a
[48:10.080 -> 48:15.360] certain amount, respond to that. Don't fall into understeer, don't fall into oversteer.
[48:15.360 -> 48:18.840] However, this is an ideal, which is kind of unachievable.
[48:18.840 -> 48:21.000] Yeah, how often do you get that?
[48:21.000 -> 48:29.680] A fully neutral car generally means you're not driving it fast enough. You're going to fall into understeer or oversteer once you reach the limit. And if the limit is both
[48:29.680 -> 48:34.560] axles slide at exactly the same moment, then you're just really lucky. You found yourself in a
[48:34.560 -> 48:39.920] beautiful race car, but unfortunately that doesn't normally happen. So I would say given a realistic
[48:39.920 -> 48:49.600] scenario where one of the axles will slide before the other one does, for me I prefer it to not understeer. I'd rather it didn't oversteer either, but I'd definitely rather
[48:49.600 -> 48:50.600] it didn't understeer.
[48:50.600 -> 48:54.880] So this is interesting, a, from watching it on TV point of view, and also I'm going to
[48:54.880 -> 49:00.560] try and apply this to my sim racing. So that's something I'm probably missing, which is,
[49:00.560 -> 49:05.920] in a car I'll probably see it more, is that I'm supposed to have one or the other
[49:10.320 -> 49:14.400] trying to slip. So if they're just on the rails of where I'm trying to put them, the wheels, and they're not moving sort of sideways out into the corner at all,
[49:15.200 -> 49:17.600] that's likely because I'm not pushing hard enough.
[49:18.480 -> 49:22.080] Yes and no. So you actually don't want the vehicle, whatever it is, car,
[49:22.080 -> 49:26.040] sim car, real car, you don't actually want it to be understeering or oversteering.
[49:26.040 -> 49:28.960] But you want to have found the point where it is about to,
[49:28.960 -> 49:31.040] or it is doing it in a very small way,
[49:31.040 -> 49:34.280] where you're on that precipice where you're just starting
[49:34.280 -> 49:36.080] to understeer or oversteer.
[49:36.080 -> 49:38.340] And what a lot of people forget is
[49:38.340 -> 49:43.480] that a corner isn't one homogenous thing where
[49:43.480 -> 49:45.760] you find that limit, and that's it, you've done your job.
[49:46.240 -> 49:51.040] That limit will change based on where you are in the corner, how fast you're going,
[49:51.040 -> 49:54.160] what you're doing with the brakes or the throttle, the other controls.
[49:54.160 -> 50:00.880] And so making sure you're on that limit, the fastest that the set of tires can cope with
[50:00.880 -> 50:05.820] the scenario at all times and changing your inputs in real time to make
[50:05.820 -> 50:10.640] sure that's fully maximised all the way through a corner, that's something which is a higher
[50:10.640 -> 50:15.260] level skill and something that, when we're talking about the basics of race driving,
[50:15.260 -> 50:18.480] track driving, we don't tend to cover that often. But yes, you should be. Something you
[50:18.480 -> 50:22.280] should be looking out for on the sim, and that's why you have a fancy steering wheel.
[50:22.280 -> 50:25.280] So you can feel, I say steering wheel, wheelbase,
[50:30.560 -> 50:35.040] so you can feel this limit more of the time, and you're not just having to rely on hearing the tyres squeal or seeing the screen, the angle of your car change on the screen.
[50:35.040 -> 50:39.360] So this is something you will feel if you just go on an outdoor kart track, is you will feel
[50:39.360 -> 50:43.120] the grip change throughout the corner, and it's perfectly possible to get the entry right and
[50:43.120 -> 50:49.200] feel like you're biting and really get into the corner and then lose it, you know, into the second part of the
[50:49.200 -> 50:52.960] corner. Whereas if you're playing on a video game or watching it on TV, if you're playing
[50:52.960 -> 50:58.400] on a controller, it looks like a very... almost like an on-off switch into a corner. They stop
[50:58.400 -> 51:03.600] for the corner, they point and then they accelerate rather than it being a journey all the way through.
[51:03.600 -> 51:10.480] And I think, Matt, that is perhaps right. That is where I felt a disadvantage when I went back to a less good
[51:10.480 -> 51:15.040] wheelbase, was it felt much less detailed through the corner.
[51:15.040 -> 51:20.440] Yeah, and I just want to highlight what Brad is saying.
[51:20.440 -> 51:26.660] From a kinematics point of view, if you have a balanced entry, you're going to have an
[51:26.660 -> 51:31.840] understeer mid, at least in a single-seater aerodynamic car.
[51:31.840 -> 51:37.220] So there's never a perfect setup that gets you balanced all the way around the turn.
[51:37.220 -> 51:42.260] And as part of that, I wanted to ask Brad, one thing I've noticed watching your sim videos
[51:42.260 -> 51:46.160] and your in-real-life life racing is you the amount of inputs
[51:46.160 -> 51:53.360] especially in carding that you put through the middle part of the turn especially is just amazing
[51:53.360 -> 51:59.520] to me is there something that you're trying to is there some reason that happens that like i don't
[51:59.520 -> 52:04.080] do that when i go through and obviously that's i'm not the driver you are but i don't see every
[52:04.080 -> 52:09.360] driver doing that so could you maybe take us on a little journey through a turn that way?
[52:09.360 -> 52:15.040] — Yes, exactly. So what you just described there, the lots of kind of micro-inputs through the
[52:15.040 -> 52:20.880] middle of a corner, are something that I was going to talk about, actually. If you see a driver
[52:20.880 -> 52:25.620] making a big correction, turning into a slide, that is a,
[52:25.620 -> 52:27.240] they've generally made a mistake,
[52:27.240 -> 52:29.760] carried too much speed, got on the throttle too early,
[52:29.760 -> 52:30.960] or something else, you know,
[52:30.960 -> 52:32.440] they've got a puncture or maybe they've hit a bump
[52:32.440 -> 52:34.960] or something, but it's not a desirable thing
[52:34.960 -> 52:36.600] unless you're drifting or you're in a rally
[52:36.600 -> 52:37.440] or something like that.
[52:37.440 -> 52:40.080] In circuit racing, certainly in a car with lots of grip,
[52:40.080 -> 52:42.080] like a single seater or F1 car,
[52:42.080 -> 52:44.500] you don't want to ever be making a large correction,
[52:44.500 -> 52:50.240] something that's super visible. But these micro-corrections, lots of very small input
[52:50.240 -> 52:57.040] changes through the middle of a corner, are essentially just trying to maximize the limit
[52:57.040 -> 53:00.120] all the way through the corner. It's effectively what I was just talking about in the last
[53:00.120 -> 53:05.680] point. If you see a driver who is able to just turn into a corner and not adjust the steering
[53:05.680 -> 53:09.280] all the way through that corner, either they're in the position where they've just got more than
[53:09.280 -> 53:13.760] enough grip to make that corner, you know, maybe if they're in a very high downforce car, sometimes
[53:13.760 -> 53:17.520] you don't need to make any corrections. You've got so much downforce through a particular corner,
[53:17.520 -> 53:22.480] you aim it where you want to go, the car isn't moving at all and it's impossible to reach a
[53:22.480 -> 53:26.600] higher limit than that. Maybe the higher limit would just cause the car to understeer slightly.
[53:26.600 -> 53:30.800] You can't make a correction for understeer other than go a bit slower
[53:31.160 -> 53:36.280] or lift off the throttle very slightly, but depending on the situation, that's not necessarily possible.
[53:36.280 -> 53:40.860] However, if you're on the limit where there's a little bit of lack of rear grip,
[53:40.860 -> 53:46.000] but you're trying to maximize, make sure you're not giving away any lap time at any point through a corner,
[53:46.000 -> 53:47.760] that's when you'll see these micro-corrections,
[53:47.760 -> 53:49.640] where the car is dancing on the limit,
[53:49.640 -> 53:53.400] not necessarily ever getting out of control, out of shape,
[53:53.400 -> 53:55.920] but you'll see the driver making small input changes
[53:55.920 -> 53:57.960] with the steering wheel as the level of grip,
[53:57.960 -> 54:00.280] as the car is telling them the grip level
[54:00.280 -> 54:01.720] or the situation is changing,
[54:01.720 -> 54:03.760] and all of those are entirely subconscious.
[54:03.760 -> 54:08.640] You mentioned this near the beginning of this chat. If you're having to think about that, then you will
[54:08.640 -> 54:12.040] then have to make a bigger correction. And the aim is to get to a point where the driver
[54:12.040 -> 54:16.600] is good enough that all of that is subconscious, and they are just confident that they can
[54:16.600 -> 54:21.480] be on that limit, and your hands will just take care of the mini-corrections all the
[54:21.480 -> 54:27.080] way through the corner. And to the outside, it should look like, if you weren't looking close up at the steering wheel on an onboard camera
[54:27.080 -> 54:32.080] outside the car should look stable and smooth and on a consistent trajectory if
[54:32.080 -> 54:35.080] you zoom in on the steering wheel you'll see these very very small corrections
[54:35.080 -> 54:39.520] with the steering wheel just holding it on that limit. So this is as viewers now
[54:39.520 -> 54:44.600] we can we can sit and we can look out for that on on board but what I noticed
[54:44.600 -> 54:45.680] with the Mercedes,
[54:46.240 -> 54:52.480] I noticed this with Rosberg and Hamilton in sort of 15, 16, is it did definitely seem like
[54:52.480 -> 54:57.040] one movement. It felt like it felt very smooth and very easy because I guess, you know, that was an
[54:57.040 -> 55:01.760] era where they were really far ahead and they were just bolting a ton of downforce on. And then
[55:01.760 -> 55:05.160] especially, in fact, maybe even if you look at after F1 had
[55:05.160 -> 55:09.280] that knee-jerk reaction to the slow lap times and they said, no, we need to be the fastest
[55:09.280 -> 55:14.280] and they were bolting even more on. But maybe in this era, we can have a look at the onboards
[55:14.280 -> 55:18.680] and see a few more adjustments. Or if you look at, say, Alex Brundle's videos where
[55:18.680 -> 55:23.560] he goes and drives classic cars and there's a lot of correction through a corner, there's
[55:23.560 -> 55:25.040] a lot of correction through a corner there's a lot of movement.
[55:30.320 -> 55:35.440] Perfect example, Alex has been posting some videos this week where he's driving a Lister Jaguar I believe around Donington and there we go there's an example of a car that doesn't have
[55:35.440 -> 55:39.760] lots of grip and it requires him in order to be on the limit he's having to make loads of
[55:39.760 -> 55:43.840] corrections all the time and all of those big steering movements you can see and they look big
[55:43.840 -> 55:47.200] because the steering wheel is big. but actually they're generally actually quite
[55:47.200 -> 55:52.720] small steering motions when you get to the point of the tyre itself. He's having to do
[55:52.720 -> 55:56.120] all that totally subconsciously because he wants the car to be on the limit all the time.
[55:56.120 -> 56:00.640] He could easily drive that car around, make one really smooth steering movement, and get
[56:00.640 -> 56:04.280] around the track, but he would be so much slower than doing it the way you're seeing
[56:04.280 -> 56:05.880] him do on the video
[56:05.880 -> 56:07.880] that there's obviously a reason
[56:07.880 -> 56:09.740] he's having to drive it like that.
[56:09.740 -> 56:11.720] I feel like to be on brand, I need to point out
[56:11.720 -> 56:13.580] he's also on cross-ply tires.
[56:14.440 -> 56:17.420] Yep, so cars on cross-ply tires,
[56:17.420 -> 56:20.480] the tire itself responds best to being driven
[56:20.480 -> 56:24.440] at a certain slip angle, but even within that,
[56:24.440 -> 56:26.880] he's having to make corrections during,
[56:26.880 -> 56:31.600] you know, the car is set up and it's slightly sideways on the way into a corner, but he can't
[56:31.600 -> 56:37.520] then just hold the opposite lock on at a certain point. He's still then maximizing the exact amount
[56:37.520 -> 56:42.720] of opposite lock he needs at all times. So yeah, those cars do respond better by being a little
[56:42.720 -> 56:47.840] bit out of shape all the time. Oh, I like this. I like this. So we can play a little bit more amateur driver coach. You know
[56:47.840 -> 56:52.960] how we all like to be armchair strategists and armchair race control? So I think we can be
[56:52.960 -> 56:59.440] armchair driver coaches now, as we look at the hand positions on the onboards. And so, if we are
[56:59.440 -> 57:05.360] seeing a driver who is going into a corner and it just looks like one big smooth movement,
[57:10.800 -> 57:17.360] you could, in our amateur opinion, go, I don't think he's pushing that to the limit. Or will we see the midfield drivers or say someone in a Williams that might have less of an aero package,
[57:18.160 -> 57:23.360] we might see them being a little bit busier and then maybe not judge them as harshly as we might
[57:23.360 -> 57:28.000] otherwise do. Yeah, exactly that. I mean, if you do see someone in a Formula 1 car
[57:28.000 -> 57:32.320] able to just take one lovely, very smooth steering movement into a particular corner,
[57:32.320 -> 57:38.480] the reason could be a number of different reasons. It might be that they are not pushing on that lap.
[57:38.480 -> 57:43.200] It might be that you just haven't seen, you're not looking closely enough, and actually they
[57:43.200 -> 57:47.920] are making lots of tiny corrections, but from the perspective you're looking, you just haven't seen, you're not looking closely enough, and actually they are making lots of tiny corrections, but from the perspective you're looking, you just can't quite see that. It might
[57:47.920 -> 57:52.080] be that they've got a surplus of grip in that scenario, in which case they're just not needing
[57:52.080 -> 57:55.920] to make any corrections. And depending on your setup, different corners, you might have set the
[57:55.920 -> 57:59.600] car up for a particular part of the track, which means that other parts of the track, it's just
[57:59.600 -> 58:04.240] easy. You know, some corners are just easily flat out and you don't have to make a correction,
[58:04.240 -> 58:05.920] but quite often you do.
[58:05.920 -> 58:11.120] Will that help us tell the difference between when someone's tyre saving or fuel saving?
[58:11.120 -> 58:15.760] Oh 100% and that's something I've forgotten, I've neglected to mention that. They could just be
[58:15.760 -> 58:20.160] trying to tyre save, but that's not... they're not trying to tyre save by not making lots of
[58:20.160 -> 58:24.800] corrections, they're trying to tyre save by just generally driving more under the limit and when
[58:24.800 -> 58:27.700] you're driving more under the limit you're not having to make the corrections
[58:27.700 -> 58:29.500] that you need to make when you're on that limit.
[58:29.500 -> 58:31.700] Because you have enough grip for what you're trying to do.
[58:31.700 -> 58:36.100] Exactly. Yeah, you're under-driving the tyre in order to preserve it. You're not stressing
[58:36.100 -> 58:40.100] it as much. So yeah, it could be that. And in fact, in a lot of cases, it probably is
[58:40.100 -> 58:41.100] that.
[58:41.100 -> 58:45.520] I just want to add along those lines, qualifying is really what you're going to watch
[58:49.280 -> 58:50.480] if you want to see that, because the race pace of the cars on full fuel,
[58:56.320 -> 59:01.280] they're nowhere near the limit that they are when they're in qualifying, when the cars are light and everyone's trying to drive as absolutely fast as they can. And I think you'll also be looking for
[59:01.280 -> 59:06.760] this kind of thing that we've been speaking about for the last five, 10 minutes or so, more in the slower and medium speed corners
[59:06.760 -> 59:08.880] because the nature of a Formula One car is
[59:08.880 -> 59:11.420] it has more grip the faster it's going.
[59:11.420 -> 59:13.120] So through the high speed corners,
[59:13.120 -> 59:14.680] certainly with this generation of car
[59:14.680 -> 59:17.840] in most high speed corners, they're pretty planted.
[59:17.840 -> 59:20.520] So they probably aren't having to do a lot
[59:20.520 -> 59:21.800] with the steering wheel other than
[59:21.800 -> 59:24.660] aim their projectile through the corner.
[59:24.660 -> 59:29.360] At the lower speed corners where grip is more of a premium, that's where you're going to
[59:29.360 -> 59:32.440] see this kind of thing we've been talking about a lot more.
[59:32.440 -> 59:39.280] Okay, let's finish with a last listener question before we quickly talk about the virtual Le Mans.
[59:39.280 -> 59:44.240] And this is, I think, more general than F1. Maria says, this is a silly question, but
[59:44.240 -> 59:45.520] is adaptiveness to different
[59:45.520 -> 59:50.360] driving styles something you consciously apply on demand, or do you just feel the car? I
[59:50.360 -> 59:55.040] was thinking, for example, of Alonso. We never say about him that he prefers a car so-and-so,
[59:55.040 -> 59:59.800] he just drives all the things fast. Does he consciously adapt, or does he just drive without
[59:59.800 -> 01:00:03.200] thinking? And then I guess my tag-on to that would be, Brad, if you do find yourself in
[01:00:03.200 -> 01:00:07.920] a oversteery or understeery car, you know, what do you do to adapt to those things?
[01:00:08.720 -> 01:00:14.240] Yeah, so first off, in the moment when you first experience that, you've left the pits and you're
[01:00:14.240 -> 01:00:20.000] going out and the car is revealing its handling traits to you as a driver, you are not thinking
[01:00:20.000 -> 01:00:26.640] about how to adapt to it. The car will do a certain thing and you will use your subconscious,
[01:00:26.640 -> 01:00:32.480] hopefully correct, driving abilities to deal with that in the appropriate way. So you get to the
[01:00:32.480 -> 01:00:37.840] first corner, you experience some understeer, you're not consciously thinking about the understeer,
[01:00:37.840 -> 01:00:43.680] but you will realize that's happening by the fact that the steering doesn't do what you tell it to.
[01:00:43.680 -> 01:00:48.100] You turn into the corner and the amount of rotation you've asked for doesn't happen.
[01:00:48.100 -> 01:00:54.700] The steering isn't as heavy as it could be, you can feel through kind of your inner ear that the rear isn't moving,
[01:00:54.700 -> 01:00:58.200] the front feels like it's washing out, it's giving that sensation of washing out,
[01:00:58.200 -> 01:01:05.080] and then you know that's understeer and the appropriate response to that is to not try and increase your speed,
[01:01:05.080 -> 01:01:10.680] not try and increase throttle, just keep reducing speed until the front tires bite enough to
[01:01:10.680 -> 01:01:16.080] do what you want them to do, and then try again, and then try and find that limit. And
[01:01:16.080 -> 01:01:19.920] obviously not increase steering lock either. If you find that the car's understeering,
[01:01:19.920 -> 01:01:23.600] if you've turned a certain amount and the car isn't doing what you're telling it to,
[01:01:23.600 -> 01:01:28.720] turning more just means it's definitely going to understeer. So you just try and avoid doing those things.
[01:01:28.720 -> 01:01:32.600] But all the things I've just said then are happening in a fraction of a second, totally
[01:01:32.600 -> 01:01:36.680] subconsciously. It's just, we're vocalizing it here and it takes a bit longer to explain
[01:01:36.680 -> 01:01:41.880] it than to do it. And the same would be true if you went out and you found the trait at
[01:01:41.880 -> 01:01:45.920] a particular corner was oversteer. You deal with it in the moment, you do the correct input, you know,
[01:01:45.920 -> 01:01:47.920] you remove your throttle input, you turn into the slide,
[01:01:47.920 -> 01:01:50.960] you keep the front wheels pointed where you want to go and then continue.
[01:01:51.080 -> 01:01:55.240] And in the next corner, you've got more of a baseline idea of
[01:01:55.240 -> 01:01:58.160] what to expect from the car and you will approach the corner very
[01:01:58.160 -> 01:01:59.680] slightly differently as a consequence.
[01:01:59.680 -> 01:02:02.600] So whatever you did that provoked that oversteer at the previous
[01:02:02.600 -> 01:02:04.360] corner, you'll do a bit less of that.
[01:02:04.800 -> 01:02:08.720] And that's, again, it's pretty subconscious. But what isn't subconscious is when you get
[01:02:08.720 -> 01:02:14.480] back to the pit, you get to then reflect on how that session went. Generally, you can then kind of
[01:02:14.480 -> 01:02:19.600] review what you've done, maybe look at data, look at onboard video, then have a think about what you
[01:02:19.600 -> 01:02:23.680] could do differently next time. And then you've got a bit more mental, a time to kind of mentally
[01:02:23.680 -> 01:02:28.480] process, how will I approach the next run? Will I have changed the setup to try and avoid that
[01:02:28.480 -> 01:02:33.440] problem next time? If I can't change the setup, you'll just expect, you'll know what to expect
[01:02:33.440 -> 01:02:37.040] from the outset and you'll just probably deal with it even better than the first time where
[01:02:37.040 -> 01:02:43.600] it was all happening in real time. So adapting to the different things, to answer the question,
[01:02:43.600 -> 01:02:50.000] it's not something you're really thinking about. Different drivers will be better or worse at having the correct response to each
[01:02:50.000 -> 01:02:54.800] of those situations. That's all. That's interesting. And I wonder if that's the
[01:02:54.800 -> 01:03:00.400] challenge Perez was perhaps facing when the car went away from the characteristics that he was
[01:03:00.400 -> 01:03:05.600] better able to adapt to subconsciously. You might even not really realize it as the
[01:03:05.600 -> 01:03:10.040] car develops and then you suddenly go, oh, I can't drive around these problems as well
[01:03:10.040 -> 01:03:12.080] anymore. Go on, Matt.
[01:03:12.080 -> 01:03:16.640] I want to follow up a little bit on that, also from the coaching side, from you if you
[01:03:16.640 -> 01:03:23.800] don't mind. It's been my experience learning other sports that you're either a field player
[01:03:23.800 -> 01:03:26.160] or you're an analytical player. Do you find
[01:03:26.160 -> 01:03:31.040] that there are certain drivers who are absolutely feel drivers no matter what
[01:03:31.040 -> 01:03:34.640] you say to them and that there are others who are absolutely analytical
[01:03:34.640 -> 01:03:40.120] about things? Yes I would say your development, your formative years
[01:03:40.120 -> 01:03:48.400] and how you've gone about them will really dictate how you end up in your final form
[01:03:48.400 -> 01:03:52.480] and how much of a proportion either of those things you are, whether you're just relying
[01:03:52.480 -> 01:03:56.500] on the feel or whether you prefer to really dig into the data. And hopefully every good
[01:03:56.500 -> 01:04:02.320] driver will have a balance of both. And again, as with the style differences, we're talking
[01:04:02.320 -> 01:04:09.000] about within quite a small range, it's probably a similar thing here. Every driver is relying on feel. That's why, you know,
[01:04:09.000 -> 01:04:14.440] you don't have super, super high power steering in all the cars, which would be lovely and easy
[01:04:14.440 -> 01:04:20.440] physically on your arms. You need a certain level of detail through a steering, through the steering
[01:04:20.440 -> 01:04:28.480] column, through the steering wheel. And so there is definitely feel that you're relying on. It's also why lots of professional drivers suck on simulators, unless they've had
[01:04:28.480 -> 01:04:33.760] a lot of practice on simulators like most of them nowadays have. Back in the day, I'm sure you
[01:04:33.760 -> 01:04:37.920] remember in the not too distant past, Formula One drivers who just didn't like simulators.
[01:04:37.920 -> 01:04:43.680] Schumacher was an example, I think partly because he felt motion sick, but other drivers will have
[01:04:43.680 -> 01:04:45.740] not really used simulators, even if they
[01:04:45.740 -> 01:04:50.940] were available, because it lacks the, the G-force feel in most cases, they couldn't
[01:04:50.940 -> 01:04:56.200] deal with it. Whereas drivers that have grown up in the modern era, they've got a kind of
[01:04:56.200 -> 01:05:00.800] separate part of their driving brain, which is probably dedicated to being able to drive
[01:05:00.800 -> 01:05:03.220] without just having G-force.
[01:05:03.220 -> 01:05:06.000] Doesn't Hamilton fall into that of having said he doesn't
[01:05:06.000 -> 01:05:11.600] really favor using the simulator a lot? Yeah I'm sure Hamilton is still really good on the simulator
[01:05:11.600 -> 01:05:16.800] but there are probably drivers who would be way worse than him in a real car that would beat him
[01:05:16.800 -> 01:05:27.360] on simulators because they haven't developed their driving ability relying on feeling the g-force. They've just got more of a
[01:05:27.360 -> 01:05:31.920] more of a percentage of the inputs that they need to go fast will be coming from the visual and the
[01:05:31.920 -> 01:05:36.320] sound aspect and what you can feel through the steering wheel, which is still very good on a
[01:05:36.320 -> 01:05:46.000] simulator. Yeah, I just wanted to add that some of the simulators we're talking about also include a motion element. And if you're very highly
[01:05:46.000 -> 01:05:52.080] attuned to the in real life physical and there's lag between the motion and what
[01:05:52.080 -> 01:05:57.040] your eyeball is processing, then that will make you feel very, very sick very,
[01:05:57.040 -> 01:06:01.680] very rapidly. And for drivers who grew up without learning video games, basically,
[01:06:01.680 -> 01:06:09.280] that could absolutely be a part of it as well. Jason Vale – Just to end on adapting, in that question, to different driving styles. I do
[01:06:09.280 -> 01:06:16.960] remember one of the first things you taught me was how to detect understeer. I think it's quite an
[01:06:16.960 -> 01:06:22.720] interesting topic because you said you mustn't crank steering on. In go-carts, where they're
[01:06:22.720 -> 01:06:25.100] generally very understeery,
[01:06:25.100 -> 01:06:31.520] that is what you see quite a lot. And I think you took me from good at a stag do or a work
[01:06:31.520 -> 01:06:36.960] do to just a little step above that. What I now find at the Missed Apex events is that
[01:06:36.960 -> 01:06:41.480] people will fly off into a corner ahead of me, I'll lose ground on them, and then they
[01:06:41.480 -> 01:06:50.160] end up pushing into a corner, even though they've got their steering locked and you get to go underneath maybe five or six people sometimes at turn
[01:06:50.160 -> 01:06:56.040] one. And it's detecting that. If the steering's gone light and it's not actually giving you
[01:06:56.040 -> 01:07:01.080] feedback through your hands, it's because you're not feeling any grip. And the instinct
[01:07:01.080 -> 01:07:05.280] is I'm not turning, therefore turn more more and it was so interesting to me the
[01:07:05.280 -> 01:07:09.920] journey of just going oh no you actually you either need to slow down to get the grip or
[01:07:09.920 -> 01:07:14.080] have the steering a little bit more open to find that that grip and I think that's something that
[01:07:14.080 -> 01:07:18.400] that most casual race fans would not have known and I certainly wouldn't have known
[01:07:18.400 -> 01:07:23.920] without you explaining it to me. And some very good race drivers will go through their entire
[01:07:23.920 -> 01:07:29.000] driving career and probably not necessarily think about these things, why they do these things.
[01:07:29.000 -> 01:07:37.000] They will know, subconsciously, they will have the correct response to these different situations, the different traits a car or a kart is giving them.
[01:07:37.000 -> 01:07:46.280] But they might have never necessarily analysed why that is. I think it definitely helps you, it helps your overall driving ability and certainly
[01:07:46.280 -> 01:07:51.420] your analytical skills. If you have thought about this as an instructor and a coach, it's
[01:07:51.420 -> 01:07:54.520] something which is unavoidable when you're trying to relay to someone that sat next to
[01:07:54.520 -> 01:08:01.280] you why they should do a certain thing, understanding the concept, why you need to do a certain
[01:08:01.280 -> 01:08:06.960] input or change an input to achieve something, understanding why you do that is quite
[01:08:06.960 -> 01:08:11.680] important because quite often the person that you're telling would like to know why. And it
[01:08:11.680 -> 01:08:16.800] will help them going forward identify and have more confidence in the things that they're doing
[01:08:16.800 -> 01:08:20.720] and the changes they're making to their inputs. And the understeer one is just such a big one,
[01:08:20.720 -> 01:08:25.360] such a common one. As you said, most people think the car isn't turning enough,
[01:08:25.360 -> 01:08:28.720] so I need to turn more. And I'm sure I've said this on this program before, but I bet
[01:08:28.720 -> 01:08:34.780] a very high proportion of road accidents where someone has a frontal impact is because they've
[01:08:34.780 -> 01:08:38.680] turned to try and avoid something, the car's begun understeering, and instead of reducing
[01:08:38.680 -> 01:08:43.660] the speed, instead of maintaining the amount of steering lock they actually need and slowing
[01:08:43.660 -> 01:08:45.120] down to an appropriate speed for that amount of steering lock they actually need and slowing down to an appropriate speed
[01:08:45.120 -> 01:08:46.760] for that amount of steering lock,
[01:08:46.760 -> 01:08:48.160] they do the thing you just said,
[01:08:48.160 -> 01:08:49.440] the car isn't turning enough,
[01:08:49.440 -> 01:08:50.720] therefore I should turn more.
[01:08:50.720 -> 01:08:51.760] They make the whole thing worse
[01:08:51.760 -> 01:08:53.000] and they just go straight on.
[01:08:53.000 -> 01:08:54.980] But understanding why you should do that,
[01:08:54.980 -> 01:08:57.480] I think helps you just as a driver in general.
[01:08:57.480 -> 01:08:59.920] I'm sure like people driving their cars or on karting
[01:08:59.920 -> 01:09:01.680] or sim, before you told me about it,
[01:09:01.680 -> 01:09:03.520] I just would have this sensation where sometimes,
[01:09:03.520 -> 01:09:07.000] you know, the steering goes light and you don't know why, you don't know what you're doing.
[01:09:07.000 -> 01:09:11.000] But once you recognize that as understeer, it's actually fairly easy to correct.
[01:09:11.000 -> 01:09:17.000] A great question there, thank you. And of course, not a stupid question at all from Maria.
[01:09:17.000 -> 01:09:21.000] So we'll end the driving coaching questions there because that was our ulterior motive.
[01:09:21.000 -> 01:09:25.000] If you like what you're hearing from Brad
[01:09:25.000 -> 01:09:27.460] and think you would like him to make you faster
[01:09:27.460 -> 01:09:30.240] on a real track or on a sim, Brad?
[01:09:30.240 -> 01:09:31.080] Absolutely.
[01:09:31.080 -> 01:09:31.920] Yeah, yeah.
[01:09:31.920 -> 01:09:33.800] The prices are obviously quite different as well.
[01:09:33.800 -> 01:09:35.240] Yes, yes, I bet they are.
[01:09:35.240 -> 01:09:37.120] Go and check out the full price list
[01:09:37.120 -> 01:09:40.080] at bradfillpot.com forward slash coaching.
[01:09:40.080 -> 01:09:43.080] And as someone who has benefited from Brad's coaching,
[01:09:43.080 -> 01:09:45.720] you will not regret it at all. But
[01:09:45.720 -> 01:09:49.760] I think from a viewer point of view, a listener point of view, and an F1 fan point of view,
[01:09:49.760 -> 01:09:55.080] we've all got extra things to look out for next time we watch on boards, which is fantastic.
[01:09:55.080 -> 01:09:58.640] But let's quickly talk about when you were talking about F1 drivers that do a lot of
[01:09:58.640 -> 01:10:05.440] sim racing. Lando Norris famously does a lot of sim racing. Max Verstappen wants to get a sim racing rig
[01:10:05.440 -> 01:10:08.120] on his private jet, I read somewhere.
[01:10:08.120 -> 01:10:11.080] And so more and more of these younger drivers
[01:10:11.080 -> 01:10:13.720] do a lot of sim racing and love sim racing.
[01:10:13.720 -> 01:10:17.760] I think not as a practice necessarily to what they're doing.
[01:10:17.760 -> 01:10:21.920] Do they genuinely enjoy sim racing as a sport in itself?
[01:10:21.920 -> 01:10:23.680] Yeah, I think some of it is practice,
[01:10:23.680 -> 01:10:29.600] especially if you're at the factory on the F1 sim, you know, there'll definitely be an element of practice, circuit familiarity,
[01:10:29.600 -> 01:10:33.840] that kind of thing. And maybe more specifically, if they're changing something on the car that
[01:10:34.480 -> 01:10:39.120] you can simulate, it'll be for that. But at home, in their home sims, doing iRacing,
[01:10:39.120 -> 01:10:46.800] which is I think what most of the top drivers tend to do as their preferred simulator program.
[01:10:46.800 -> 01:10:48.400] It will be for keeping sharp,
[01:10:48.400 -> 01:10:50.120] enjoying it just because they enjoy racing.
[01:10:50.120 -> 01:10:51.960] You know, we all enjoy racing
[01:10:51.960 -> 01:10:55.560] and that's the reason that they race is because it's fun.
[01:10:55.560 -> 01:10:58.600] And doing it more, even in the virtual world,
[01:10:58.600 -> 01:11:00.360] is definitely good mental prep
[01:11:00.360 -> 01:11:02.080] for doing it in the real world,
[01:11:02.080 -> 01:11:03.840] regardless of the fact that you might not be experiencing
[01:11:03.840 -> 01:11:07.240] the same G-forces, just being in more racing situations,
[01:11:07.240 -> 01:11:10.240] provided they're simulated accurately.
[01:11:10.240 -> 01:11:11.500] When you're racing against real people,
[01:11:11.500 -> 01:11:12.760] they're having real reactions.
[01:11:12.760 -> 01:11:14.920] Obviously, the better the people you're racing against,
[01:11:14.920 -> 01:11:17.920] the more realistic those reactions and positions
[01:11:17.920 -> 01:11:18.920] that they'll be on on the track
[01:11:18.920 -> 01:11:20.800] when you're having battles, that kind of thing,
[01:11:20.800 -> 01:11:23.000] the more accurately they reflect the real world.
[01:11:23.000 -> 01:11:27.840] And it's just good practice for that element of the driving. I mean, that's why I pushed us, you know,
[01:11:27.840 -> 01:11:32.480] in the direction of iRacing. Obviously, you've got to be hooked onto that. So you were the gateway
[01:11:32.480 -> 01:11:38.080] drug in your garage, holding a duck one minute, experiencing high quality sim racing the next.
[01:11:39.280 -> 01:11:49.360] But one of the big appeals was, you know, you can go racing there and you can be on track with Rubens Barrichello, with Haas Driver, who hurt his hand.
[01:11:49.360 -> 01:11:50.860] Why has that name disappeared from-
[01:11:50.860 -> 01:11:51.860] Magnussen.
[01:11:51.860 -> 01:11:52.860] No, the other one, the French one.
[01:11:52.860 -> 01:11:53.860] Grosjean.
[01:11:53.860 -> 01:11:55.600] Grosjean, oh my goodness, I forgot that.
[01:11:55.600 -> 01:12:00.880] Yeah, before his accident when he was still in F1, I was being lapped by Romain Grosjean
[01:12:00.880 -> 01:12:04.600] and I was trying to stay ahead of him and I did, I managed to not be lapped and that
[01:12:04.600 -> 01:12:06.680] was a real thrill.
[01:12:06.680 -> 01:12:08.400] But a lot of guys do this,
[01:12:08.400 -> 01:12:12.380] and Max Verstappen was in a high-profile event recently,
[01:12:12.380 -> 01:12:15.800] the Le Mans 24-hour, and he was very unhappy.
[01:12:15.800 -> 01:12:19.160] So we are gonna promote a similar type of event
[01:12:19.160 -> 01:12:21.960] that we're doing, but why wasn't Max Verstappen happy?
[01:12:21.960 -> 01:12:25.080] Yeah, so I'm famously not a Max Verstappen fan.
[01:12:25.080 -> 01:12:26.080] No.
[01:12:26.080 -> 01:12:29.160] I was fully in his camp and agreeing with his reaction
[01:12:29.160 -> 01:12:30.240] to this particular race.
[01:12:30.240 -> 01:12:32.840] So just to fill people in, this is old news in terms of,
[01:12:32.840 -> 01:12:35.040] it happened a few weeks ago now,
[01:12:35.040 -> 01:12:37.200] but there's a big official sim race
[01:12:37.200 -> 01:12:38.620] called the Le Mans Virtual,
[01:12:38.620 -> 01:12:40.960] which uses the rFactor 2 platform,
[01:12:40.960 -> 01:12:44.200] which is one of the major sim racing platforms.
[01:12:44.200 -> 01:12:47.040] And for the last few years it's had the
[01:12:47.040 -> 01:12:52.880] license to run the official Le Mans 24 hours and so you get quite a lot of real world teams,
[01:12:52.880 -> 01:12:57.440] real world drivers and professional sim teams competing putting in lots of hours of practice,
[01:12:58.080 -> 01:13:03.280] lots of promotion and extremely professional broadcast so the way the event was broadcast
[01:13:03.280 -> 01:13:05.320] was effectively television quality
[01:13:05.320 -> 01:13:11.640] like you'd see the real Le Mans 24 hours. And unfortunately it was all let down by technical
[01:13:11.640 -> 01:13:15.360] errors. And that's actually been the case for the last few years. There have been server
[01:13:15.360 -> 01:13:21.840] issues, people being disconnected at random, groups of people being disconnected, or red
[01:13:21.840 -> 01:13:25.000] flags needing to happen where the game itself,
[01:13:25.300 -> 01:13:28.740] the sim program was just not working properly
[01:13:28.740 -> 01:13:29.580] for whatever reason.
[01:13:29.580 -> 01:13:32.120] It was kind of a litany of issues.
[01:13:32.120 -> 01:13:35.320] And Verstappen's team were one of those affected.
[01:13:35.320 -> 01:13:39.120] And he understandably was very annoyed
[01:13:39.120 -> 01:13:42.860] that they were disconnected through no fault of their own.
[01:13:42.860 -> 01:13:47.400] We appreciate computer issues are part of sim racing, but this wasn't something
[01:13:47.640 -> 01:13:49.360] under the control of him or his team.
[01:13:49.360 -> 01:13:51.340] It wasn't like his own router failed.
[01:13:51.480 -> 01:13:57.060] This was a problem with the server itself that everyone was connected to.
[01:13:57.360 -> 01:14:02.200] And effectively he thought that all the time he'd spent practicing, and a lot
[01:14:02.200 -> 01:14:07.260] of hours is taken practicing and preparing and developing the setups and working with your teammates, all the same things that
[01:14:07.260 -> 01:14:10.320] you do in real life, just from your own simulator at home.
[01:14:10.640 -> 01:14:13.240] He felt all that had gone to waste and he was very angry about that.
[01:14:13.280 -> 01:14:15.260] And it was because it wasn't the first time.
[01:14:15.320 -> 01:14:19.560] It's happened a number of times and effectively from my point of view, and
[01:14:19.560 -> 01:14:23.240] this is just the view of Brad, not I guess, Mist Apex as a whole, but the
[01:14:23.240 -> 01:14:29.200] platform they're using, rFactor 2, which unfortunately has the, the exclusive rights to run any
[01:14:29.200 -> 01:14:32.080] event called the Le Mans 24 hours as a sim race.
[01:14:32.480 -> 01:14:36.320] Um, and I believe they go after people who try and do one themselves.
[01:14:36.320 -> 01:14:40.960] Um, it's not really up to running an event like this.
[01:14:41.040 -> 01:14:44.480] And the frustrating thing is that there are other platforms, one in particular
[01:14:44.480 -> 01:14:49.240] iRacing, which is our preferred platform and Max's and Norris and a few other
[01:14:49.240 -> 01:14:54.920] guys that we mentioned, that is more than capable and actually frequently runs much
[01:14:54.920 -> 01:14:59.360] bigger events than this without most of the major problems they're experienced. So that's
[01:14:59.360 -> 01:15:02.920] the kind of, that's the long and short of it. But that's quite a good introduction.
[01:15:02.920 -> 01:15:08.960] It was quite a big, like, no holds barred-barred put-down from Verstappen on a live stream,
[01:15:08.960 -> 01:15:13.840] and you know, some people were quite critical of that, but I think you and I probably share
[01:15:14.720 -> 01:15:15.520] his frustration.
[01:15:16.080 -> 01:15:21.680] So a lot of people were criticising him, saying, you know,
[01:15:21.680 -> 01:15:27.500] oh he's getting so annoyed about a game, but ultimately, if you want esports at SimRacing
[01:15:27.500 -> 01:15:31.500] to be taken seriously as a sport, which they clearly do
[01:15:31.500 -> 01:15:34.000] because they're running a massive professional broadcast,
[01:15:34.000 -> 01:15:38.000] licensed, etc., that's supposed to be super, super realistic,
[01:15:38.000 -> 01:15:42.000] you can't also then say, oh, it's only a game when things go wrong.
[01:15:42.000 -> 01:15:49.440] If you expect people, if you expect the reigning double Formula 1 world champion to enter your event, take it super seriously, do the prep,
[01:15:49.440 -> 01:15:54.240] you know, spend his time, his valuable time probably doing all of the, putting in all the
[01:15:54.240 -> 01:15:57.440] effort that's required for an event like that, and not just him, all the other participants
[01:15:57.440 -> 01:16:02.720] involved as well, you can't then, when it goes wrong and it's not, it's not the driver's fault,
[01:16:02.720 -> 01:16:07.040] the team's fault, just say, oh it's only a game, what's he getting annoyed about? He's getting annoyed over nothing. Because at that
[01:16:07.040 -> 01:16:11.880] point, why don't we all just play PlayStation or a game of Mario Kart? That isn't what this
[01:16:11.880 -> 01:16:17.880] is. This is supposed to be a realistic, professional simulator event mimicking the professionalism
[01:16:17.880 -> 01:16:18.880] of the real world one.
[01:16:18.880 -> 01:16:22.440] Okay, well, I think if you weren't following that story closely, hopefully that's given
[01:16:22.440 -> 01:16:26.840] you a good insight. So you've told me that there's litigation, so we have to be careful
[01:16:26.840 -> 01:16:31.960] with the name of... what's our event going to be called? So the event that we're
[01:16:31.960 -> 01:16:37.400] running is at the same circuit, virtually. Can we say the name of the circuit? It's
[01:16:37.400 -> 01:16:42.080] the Circuit de la Sarthe, which is the official name for the Le Mans 24-hour
[01:16:42.080 -> 01:16:48.160] circuit. And our event is called the M4M 24 hours by Missed Apex podcast.
[01:16:48.480 -> 01:16:53.080] M4M being the event sponsor and Missed Apex podcast being the
[01:16:53.080 -> 01:16:57.400] podcast you're listening to and really the organizer of the event.
[01:16:57.720 -> 01:16:59.920] And the reason we're allowed to do it is because we're not
[01:16:59.920 -> 01:17:02.120] saying it is the Le Mans 24 hours.
[01:17:02.160 -> 01:17:05.680] If we were to name the event, the official missed apex
[01:17:05.680 -> 01:17:09.080] Le Mans 24 hour race, they'd come after us. They would come after us and probably try
[01:17:09.080 -> 01:17:12.000] and shut it down. But it's not that, there's nothing preventing us from running an event
[01:17:12.000 -> 01:17:16.840] on that track. It's just, you're not allowed to pretend it is the official one.
[01:17:16.840 -> 01:17:18.960] I have a solution. We just call it the alleged.
[01:17:18.960 -> 01:17:22.520] No, maybe that is the solution.
[01:17:22.520 -> 01:17:26.000] Maybe, but if you want to, so this is our second part of our Alteria Motive.
[01:17:26.000 -> 01:17:28.000] What date is that on, Brad?
[01:17:28.000 -> 01:17:31.000] So it's the 27th and 28th of May this year.
[01:17:31.000 -> 01:17:32.000] We're teasing that.
[01:17:32.000 -> 01:17:34.000] 24 hours. 12 till 12.
[01:17:34.000 -> 01:17:36.000] Nice. But we're teasing that quite far off,
[01:17:36.000 -> 01:17:41.000] because our Alteria Motive is that we would like you to get interested in watching that as an event.
[01:17:41.000 -> 01:17:45.840] Uncle Steve actually does a really great program on it, a great
[01:17:45.840 -> 01:17:50.440] broadcast on that, which you'll be able to see for our F3 Cup that's coming up on the
[01:17:50.440 -> 01:17:56.160] 18th of February as well. If you are interested, there is a link to a Discord in the show notes
[01:17:56.160 -> 01:18:00.880] below where you can kind of register your interest. So, £15 if you want to enter a
[01:18:00.880 -> 01:18:08.200] full team for that 24-hour, but also if you're an individual, get in touch with me, spanners at nistapex.net and I'll try and group
[01:18:08.200 -> 01:18:12.820] people together into listener teams as well. Okay, I think that brings us to the
[01:18:12.820 -> 01:18:17.560] end of today's show. We'll see you next on Sunday for a live stream. Go and
[01:18:17.560 -> 01:18:22.360] follow Matt at MattPT55. Go and follow Brad by searching for Bradley Philpott
[01:18:22.360 -> 01:18:29.200] on all the social medias and go and check out his coaching at bradleyphilpott.com forward slash coaching.
[01:18:29.200 -> 01:18:30.200] Nice and easy.
[01:18:30.200 -> 01:18:34.560] And since I'm back, you may as well follow me on Twitter as well at SpannersReady and
[01:18:34.560 -> 01:18:38.120] follow the podcast at MissedApexF1 on Twitter.
[01:18:38.120 -> 01:18:41.740] Think about being a patron, patreon.com forward slash MissedApex.
[01:18:41.740 -> 01:19:24.120] But wherever we see you next, work hard, be kind and have fun this was missed apex podcast Looking for a fun way to win up to 25 times your money this football season?
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