The Art of Circuit Design (with Driven International)

Just what all goes in to design and erect an FIA/FIM-homologated motor-racing circuit that is used for Formula 1, MotoGP, Formula E & other series? What are the design, legal, practical, civil and even human resource requirements needed?

In this episode of the Inside Line F1 Podcast, Soumil Arora spoke to Ben Wilshire and Dan Selby from Driven International, the company that was responsible for the most-recent changes to the Yas Marina Circuit (for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix).

Driven International also designed the Hyderabad Street Circuit in India (for Formula E's Hyderabad ePrix), the Mandalika International Street Circuit in Indonesia (for MotoGP & Superbike World Championship) among others.

In Formula 1, the focus always is on car design, but in this April break, we decided to focus on circuit design. After all, Romain Grosjean famously said that it was cheaper to re-design circuits than the racing cars as the sport chased 'ease of overtaking'. 

(Season 2023, Episode 15)

Follow our host on Twitter: Soumil Arora

Image courtesy: Formula 1

**Navigating the Complexities of Circuit Design: A Conversation with Driven International**

In this episode of the Inside Line F1 Podcast, host Soumil Arora engages in a captivating discussion with Ben Wiltshire, Managing Director, and Dan Selby, Project Leader at Driven International, a company renowned for designing and constructing world-class motor racing circuits. Ben and Dan share their insights and experiences in creating iconic circuits like the Yas Marina Circuit (Abu Dhabi Grand Prix), the Hyderabad Street Circuit (Formula E's Hyderabad ePrix), and the Mandalika International Street Circuit (MotoGP & Superbike World Championship).

**The Essence of a Good Circuit**

When asked about the key elements that define a good circuit, Ben emphasizes the importance of driver feedback, undulation, and a mix of high-speed corners and technical sequences. He believes that a circuit should provide a thrilling driving experience while also considering the perspectives of spectators, officials, and stakeholders. Dan adds that identifying constraints and working within them is crucial, as circuit designers often face numerous limitations and must prioritize safety and functionality.

**Striking the Right Balance**

Ben and Dan discuss the challenges of balancing the needs of various stakeholders, including drivers, fans, and organizers. They explain that while pleasing everyone is nearly impossible, they prioritize the driving experience and ensure that the circuit layout takes precedence over constraints. They also highlight the importance of using simulators to assess the viability and enjoyment factor of a circuit design before construction begins.

**The Evolution of Hyderabad Street Circuit**

The conversation delves into the intricate process of designing the Hyderabad Street Circuit. Ben and Dan reveal that the initial T-shaped layout was conceived due to safety concerns and the need to avoid fast corners near water bodies and buildings. However, they later modified the design to incorporate a section of picturesque parkland, creating a unique and visually appealing circuit with two distinct characteristics. The project involved extensive collaboration with local authorities, obtaining approvals, and accommodating changes to ensure the circuit met FIA safety standards.

**Driver Input and Simulation**

Ben and Dan emphasize the significance of driver feedback in the circuit design process. They engage with drivers, particularly during events like the Indian Racing League, to gather insights and improve the track layout. They also utilize driver-in-the-loop simulators to test and refine the geometry of corners, ensuring that the circuit provides an exhilarating driving experience.

**The Yas Marina Circuit Transformation**

The discussion turns to the recent modifications made to the Yas Marina Circuit for the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix. Ben and Dan explain that the goal was to improve overtaking opportunities and create a more exciting race. They widened certain corners, added a chicane, and reprofiled several sections of the track to encourage closer racing. The changes were extensively tested using simulation tools, and feedback from drivers was incorporated to finalize the design.

**The Art of Circuit Design**

Ben and Dan conclude the conversation by reflecting on the artistic and technical aspects of circuit design. They express their passion for creating circuits that are both visually stunning and enjoyable to drive. They also acknowledge the challenges of working within constraints and the need to balance the demands of different stakeholders. Ultimately, their aim is to deliver circuits that leave a lasting legacy and contribute to the growth of motorsport worldwide. ## Designing and Constructing Formula One Circuits: A Conversation with Driven International

### Introduction:

In this episode of the Inside Line F1 Podcast, host Soumil Arora engages in a captivating conversation with Ben Wilshire and Dan Selby, representatives of Driven International, a company renowned for designing and constructing world-class motor-racing circuits. The discussion centers around the intricate process of designing and erecting FIA/FIM-homologated motor-racing circuits used for Formula 1, MotoGP, Formula E, and various other racing series.

### Key Points:

- **Circuit Design:** The design of a motor-racing circuit involves meticulous consideration of numerous factors, including safety, speed, runoff areas, and potential impact with barriers. Driven International utilizes driver-in-the-loop simulation to analyze the intuitive feel of the circuit, driver feedback, and data related to braking, apex speed, and overtaking opportunities.

- **Yas Marina Circuit Redesign:** The redesign of the Yas Marina Circuit in Abu Dhabi, which hosts the Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, serves as a prime example of Driven International's expertise. The company faced the challenge of enhancing the circuit's racing capabilities while working within existing constraints, such as asphalt runoffs and drainage systems. The redesigned Turn 5, featuring a late apex and a wider design, aimed to create different racing lines and overtaking opportunities. Additionally, a new 5% banked corner, Turn 9, was introduced to facilitate closer following and higher speeds.

- **Hyderabad Street Circuit:** Driven International also played a pivotal role in designing the Hyderabad Street Circuit in India, a venue for the Formula E Hyderabad ePrix. The project required careful consideration of operational aspects, ensuring that the circuit could accommodate various configurations and track day activities without disruption. The team collaborated closely with the circuit's operations team to understand their needs and enhance the overall functionality of the facility.

- **Team Dynamics and Recruitment:** Driven International's team comprises a diverse mix of professionals, including architects, civil engineers, motorsport engineers, and project managers. The company seeks individuals passionate about delivering world-class projects and willing to go the extra mile. While some team members are ardent motorsport enthusiasts, others are driven by the technical challenges and the satisfaction of creating highly precise engineering projects.

### Conclusion:

The podcast highlights the intricate process of designing and constructing motor-racing circuits, showcasing the expertise of Driven International in navigating complex constraints and delivering exceptional results. The discussion emphasizes the importance of collaboration, stakeholder involvement, and a skilled team in creating circuits that enhance the racing experience and contribute to the success of major racing series worldwide.

[00:00.000 -> 00:23.000] Now then folks, if you are a motorsport fan, you probably know exactly what I'm going to
[00:23.000 -> 00:24.480] be talking about next.
[00:24.480 -> 00:27.680] Have you been a part of a boring lecture or just a random meeting, you are a motorsport fan, you probably know exactly what I'm going to be talking about next. Have you been a part of a boring lecture or just a random meeting?
[00:27.680 -> 00:32.280] You have a notebook with you and you tend to doodle long circuit designs and you just wonder, well...
[00:32.280 -> 00:34.600] What if we had this racetrack come into life?
[00:34.600 -> 00:36.520] Would it be a good one? Would it be a bad one?
[00:36.520 -> 00:38.080] Just how can that happen?
[00:38.080 -> 00:43.480] How can this one doodle design of mine become a proper racetrack where drivers and teams go ahead and race?
[00:43.480 -> 00:48.400] Well, today, I am joined by two people who absolutely have answered my curiosity
[00:48.400 -> 00:52.240] because they are the people who have worked on amazing circuits like for me
[00:52.240 -> 00:54.560] personally the new crown jewel of Indian motorsport
[00:54.560 -> 00:58.000] the Hyderabad street circuit and also the Mandelika street circuit which
[00:58.000 -> 01:01.520] recently made its debut on the MotoGP calendar and if you're a
[01:01.520 -> 01:04.800] Formula One fan most importantly for you the modifications
[01:04.800 -> 01:05.000] to the Yaz Marina circuit. I'm talking about the folks at Driven the GCP calendar and if you're a Formula One fan, most importantly for you, the modifications
[01:05.000 -> 01:10.080] to the YAS Marina circuit. I'm talking about the folks at Driven International. Over the
[01:10.080 -> 01:14.040] last couple of years, their work has really raised a lot of eyes in the world of motorsport
[01:14.040 -> 01:19.440] and on this episode of the Inside Line F1 podcast, we're going to be joined by Ben Wiltshire,
[01:19.440 -> 01:23.640] their managing director and Dan Selby, the man who worked on the Hyderabad Street Circuit
[01:23.640 -> 01:30.000] and led that project to explain more of just what happens and how do you actually make a street circuit into reality.
[01:30.000 -> 01:38.000] Firstly, it's a great honour for us to have both of you right here, Ben and Dan. Thank you so much for taking out the time to join us on the Inside Line F1 Podcast.
[01:38.000 -> 01:43.000] And Ben, I want to start off with you on this one because it's a question that really has been puzzling me.
[01:43.000 -> 01:45.200] When we often have a race
[01:45.200 -> 01:49.760] coming in the world of motorsport, we just have a question, right, is it a good circuit or not?
[01:49.760 -> 01:54.400] The stakeholders of the sport have such a different mindset, the fans might have a different approach,
[01:54.400 -> 01:57.760] the drivers might have a different approach, the commentators might have a different approach and
[01:57.760 -> 02:01.680] the clients that you work with might have a totally different answer to that as well. So
[02:01.680 -> 02:05.120] according to you, just what really makes for a good circuit?
[02:05.120 -> 02:07.360] I think it's always subjective, isn't it?
[02:07.360 -> 02:09.120] Well, firstly, thank you for having us.
[02:09.120 -> 02:10.200] Pleasure to talk to you.
[02:10.200 -> 02:13.720] And yeah, we love doing work in India.
[02:13.720 -> 02:17.240] And yeah, pleased to see that our profiles reach you
[02:17.240 -> 02:17.960] guys over there.
[02:17.960 -> 02:19.960] So thank you for having us.
[02:19.960 -> 02:23.040] Yeah, I mean, circuit, what makes a good circuit?
[02:23.040 -> 02:24.420] We get asked that all the time.
[02:24.420 -> 02:25.440] Is it overtaking? Is it feedback all the time. Is it overtaking?
[02:25.440 -> 02:26.840] Is it feedback from the drivers?
[02:26.840 -> 02:28.400] Is it spectators?
[02:28.400 -> 02:30.840] I think it's probably all in the above.
[02:30.840 -> 02:32.760] For me personally, I think the thing
[02:32.760 -> 02:35.000] that I take the greatest pride from
[02:35.000 -> 02:37.200] is really getting good driver feedback.
[02:37.200 -> 02:42.200] So I think, you know, I've done some racing across the years
[02:42.640 -> 02:46.220] and I think the things that always make a good circuit
[02:46.220 -> 02:51.220] are is undulation and a mix of, you know,
[02:51.580 -> 02:53.300] having one high speed corner.
[02:53.300 -> 02:54.700] And I always say, you have to hold your breath
[02:54.700 -> 02:56.620] at least once around the track where, you know,
[02:56.620 -> 02:58.660] every lap it's that corner where you think,
[02:58.660 -> 03:01.940] oh, can I, you know, can I do this corner full throttle
[03:01.940 -> 03:02.940] or do I need to lift?
[03:02.940 -> 03:04.700] And it's like the difference,
[03:04.700 -> 03:06.160] the difference there can make or break
[03:06.160 -> 03:07.400] your lap time.
[03:07.400 -> 03:09.640] And then having a technical sequence as well.
[03:09.640 -> 03:11.600] So I think it's having real character.
[03:11.600 -> 03:14.540] My personal favorite track, having raced,
[03:14.540 -> 03:17.080] and this is just here in the UK, is Orton Park.
[03:17.080 -> 03:18.680] And I think if you look at that circuit,
[03:18.680 -> 03:20.480] it has all of those ingredients.
[03:20.480 -> 03:23.600] It has high speed corners, it has a lot of undulation.
[03:23.600 -> 03:25.560] It's got great character, it's in a park,
[03:25.560 -> 03:28.560] and it's got some good technical sequences as well.
[03:28.560 -> 03:31.800] So, and I think a lot of drivers will always refer
[03:31.800 -> 03:34.240] to that track as one of the best in the UK.
[03:34.240 -> 03:37.440] So for me, it's more about the driving experience,
[03:37.440 -> 03:39.280] but obviously if you're a fan,
[03:39.280 -> 03:40.640] it's about what you can see
[03:40.640 -> 03:43.280] and like your experience at the event.
[03:43.280 -> 03:44.160] If you're an official,
[03:44.160 -> 03:48.920] when you talk to some of the FIA race directors or marshals, you know a good
[03:48.920 -> 03:52.200] circuit for them will be you know what functions well in terms of ease of
[03:52.200 -> 03:57.640] operation. So we have to we have to consider all of that in our job to
[03:57.640 -> 04:02.120] deliver a circuit but for me personally it's about the drive you know how it is
[04:02.120 -> 04:07.120] to drive. And Dan on the subject of that, when you have to please so many stakeholders, just
[04:07.120 -> 04:11.260] what do you prioritise first? Do you prioritise what the drivers would be thinking about the
[04:11.260 -> 04:15.360] functionality of it, or just also what the fans might think? Does it have enough overtaking
[04:15.360 -> 04:20.080] opportunities? Because surely you'd love to have a good mix, but where do you start?
[04:20.080 -> 04:24.560] I think a lot of it's dependent on the constraints, first and foremost. What have we got to play
[04:24.560 -> 04:27.200] with? What does our canvas look like? What shape is it?
[04:27.200 -> 04:30.080] How long can we make it? How short do we make it?
[04:30.080 -> 04:36.720] So I think that's the first port of call is ascertaining what have we got to play with?
[04:36.720 -> 04:40.800] Where are we going to put our paddock? Where's the entrance to the site going to be?
[04:40.800 -> 04:47.280] So some of that helps to dictate some of the route as it were. When it comes to something like
[04:47.280 -> 04:52.080] street circuits it's kind of more of the same but slightly different. So it's again that
[04:53.360 -> 04:58.560] identification of where's the paddock going to sit, let's come up a few different routes,
[04:58.560 -> 05:06.760] what's going to be the least disruptive to the general public. So it's kind of similar process,
[05:06.760 -> 05:08.500] but executed slightly differently
[05:08.500 -> 05:10.680] depending on whether it's going to be permanent
[05:10.680 -> 05:12.320] or whether it's going to be a street circuit.
[05:12.320 -> 05:15.480] But for me, as track designer,
[05:17.000 -> 05:19.880] I want to make sure that the circuit's very enjoyable.
[05:19.880 -> 05:22.600] And I think that's something that Ben touched upon
[05:22.600 -> 05:25.680] is that character and identity. And it's one of those things that's something that Ben touched upon is that character and identity.
[05:25.680 -> 05:29.040] And it's one of those things that's quite difficult
[05:29.040 -> 05:31.000] to ascertain exactly what that is,
[05:31.000 -> 05:33.240] but we use our simulator a lot,
[05:33.240 -> 05:37.200] our in-house simulator to give our circuits a go
[05:37.200 -> 05:41.140] before even a spot of earth has been moved.
[05:41.140 -> 05:44.040] So you can generally start to identify
[05:44.040 -> 05:48.960] whether it's feeling right. And some of those characteristics are undulation, as
[05:48.960 -> 05:53.240] Ben mentioned, somewhere to overtake, obviously, we don't
[05:53.240 -> 05:58.420] just want to see follow the leader. But add, you know, mix
[05:58.420 -> 06:01.000] some of those together, and you start to generate a bit of a
[06:01.000 -> 06:05.480] feel a bit of character. And also one thing I quite like was,
[06:05.480 -> 06:07.760] I think it's something we've spoke about before is,
[06:07.760 -> 06:09.040] if you have a look at in 2D,
[06:09.040 -> 06:11.200] you see the line work of the track.
[06:11.200 -> 06:15.120] I like that to be identifiable.
[06:15.120 -> 06:18.080] You know, with a lot of the Formula One calendar,
[06:18.080 -> 06:19.200] you tend to look at straight,
[06:19.200 -> 06:20.240] and I go, oh, that's Monza,
[06:20.240 -> 06:21.600] you can just tell from the shape.
[06:21.600 -> 06:26.120] I quite like our tracks to have that identity.
[06:26.120 -> 06:27.480] Something that looks a little bit different.
[06:27.480 -> 06:28.320] That's always quite nice as well.
[06:28.320 -> 06:31.560] We're collecting, you know, the circuit maps.
[06:31.560 -> 06:33.920] You can print them out and keep them now
[06:33.920 -> 06:35.600] as like souvenirs, let's say.
[06:35.600 -> 06:38.260] So we like them to look nice on the wall.
[06:39.260 -> 06:42.280] I think Dan though, picked on a good point,
[06:42.280 -> 06:43.400] or a couple of good points there.
[06:43.400 -> 06:45.360] Like with a lot of the constraints,
[06:45.360 -> 06:48.880] it's really, I think the biggest challenge we have,
[06:48.880 -> 06:51.720] and it's easy to criticize a track design,
[06:51.720 -> 06:53.680] is that we're working with so many constraints.
[06:53.680 -> 06:56.120] You can get slightly tunnel visioned
[06:56.120 -> 07:00.960] or down a rabbit hole with problems and constraints,
[07:00.960 -> 07:02.740] and you end up designing the track
[07:02.740 -> 07:04.800] to fit just around the constraints,
[07:04.800 -> 07:09.360] and you would just end up with what you end up with. Whereas I think what we do is we have to work with
[07:09.360 -> 07:14.400] the constraints but I think the key thing here that Dan mentioned was a simulator. But if we
[07:14.400 -> 07:18.320] drive it on the sim and it's not a good experience or the data is showing that it's just not going to
[07:18.320 -> 07:25.000] be a good lap time in terms of distance of the track and speeds and overtaking,
[07:25.080 -> 07:27.080] then we have to address that.
[07:27.080 -> 07:28.960] And it means that the circuit,
[07:28.960 -> 07:30.920] for me, the circuit has to take priority.
[07:30.920 -> 07:33.440] Like we can engineer around other constraints,
[07:33.440 -> 07:35.220] but the circuit layout has to take priority.
[07:35.220 -> 07:40.120] But that's the balance that you can't always do
[07:40.120 -> 07:41.280] exactly what you want.
[07:41.280 -> 07:43.040] You have to work within the constraints,
[07:43.040 -> 07:44.680] but you must never let the track design
[07:44.680 -> 07:47.320] end up as a bad result. so that's where it's tricky.
[07:47.320 -> 07:51.080] So once you've identified the constraints, let's say once you know
[07:51.080 -> 07:54.560] that at the Hyderabad Street Circuit there's a leak right by one part of the
[07:54.560 -> 07:58.080] track then you can't really do much over there, how do you then go about it?
[07:58.080 -> 08:02.520] Because I'm sure the series organizers must want a big parrock, I'm sure they
[08:02.520 -> 08:07.640] must want a big area for the stands and everything. But you also want, let's say, in some areas, wider corners,
[08:07.640 -> 08:09.000] more space for the photographers.
[08:09.000 -> 08:11.160] So just what do you choose first?
[08:11.160 -> 08:11.960] What do you go for?
[08:11.960 -> 08:14.560] Because in a street circuit, I can imagine,
[08:14.560 -> 08:17.120] it must be even trickier, Dan, because the government is only
[08:17.120 -> 08:18.400] giving you so much land.
[08:18.400 -> 08:20.160] It's how do you decide what to do with it?
[08:20.160 -> 08:22.520] Yeah, I'll just quickly chip in there,
[08:22.520 -> 08:24.600] and then Dan can chip in on detail,
[08:24.600 -> 08:31.040] because he executed the project but like with Hyderabad in particular the thing that the
[08:31.040 -> 08:34.960] border said we actually looked at lots of different sites for that project we looked around at
[08:34.960 -> 08:41.680] different sites and around the city and as you said the city you know you have to the promoter
[08:41.680 -> 08:48.160] that's putting on the race and investing into the track has to have an agreement with the landowners or the government or authorities
[08:48.160 -> 08:50.320] that are owning and operating the road.
[08:50.320 -> 08:52.240] So that's hurdle number one.
[08:52.240 -> 08:54.880] So we were able to identify that location
[08:54.880 -> 08:58.480] as being even a possibility, which was great.
[08:58.480 -> 09:00.480] So once we reached that point,
[09:00.480 -> 09:03.520] we then looked at, do we have enough road width?
[09:03.520 -> 09:05.480] And if you look at the Hyderabad street circuit,
[09:05.480 -> 09:06.960] you mentioned the lake,
[09:06.960 -> 09:08.920] the roads that are running parallel to the lake,
[09:08.920 -> 09:11.320] they're decent width dual carriageways,
[09:11.320 -> 09:13.240] essentially a multi-lane carriageway.
[09:13.240 -> 09:15.440] So we knew, okay, we've got enough room here
[09:15.440 -> 09:17.540] to create something.
[09:19.880 -> 09:23.120] The thing then that was the deciding factor was,
[09:23.120 -> 09:24.080] well, where do we put the pit?
[09:24.080 -> 09:25.640] It's all well and good having the roads,
[09:25.640 -> 09:27.800] but where on earth do you put your pit lane and paddock?
[09:27.800 -> 09:28.880] Because it needs to operate.
[09:28.880 -> 09:31.880] So if you look back actually, and it's online,
[09:31.880 -> 09:33.840] if you look back at the very first design,
[09:33.840 -> 09:36.600] we had like a T-shaped circuit.
[09:36.600 -> 09:39.240] And the reason that existed was we couldn't get,
[09:39.240 -> 09:41.840] we ran a lot of simulations
[09:41.840 -> 09:44.100] and we were trying to make it work.
[09:44.100 -> 09:45.840] We couldn't get anywhere to put the
[09:45.840 -> 09:51.760] paddock, we only had the paddock in the south and we were quite concerned about the possibility of
[09:53.600 -> 10:00.320] the fast corner up with no runoff by the lake. And that was really what derived that first
[10:00.320 -> 10:04.080] T-shaped design. It was a much shorter track as well because as soon as you go around that top
[10:04.080 -> 10:08.440] corner you ended up adding on at least a kilometre to the track design and
[10:08.440 -> 10:10.920] it's obviously a cost and disruption.
[10:10.920 -> 10:15.520] So that was what drove the first T-shaped design and that was actually our client, and
[10:15.520 -> 10:19.000] we have to give them credit for it, they pushed, they wanted a longer track and then obviously
[10:19.000 -> 10:23.520] Formula E were looking to come there as well and that sort of derived a bit of direction
[10:23.520 -> 10:27.820] for the change and then Dan took that on and, you know,
[10:27.820 -> 10:30.720] modified the design, I think for the better actually.
[10:30.720 -> 10:32.520] Yeah, I think all in all, I mean,
[10:32.520 -> 10:34.200] it's interesting that you touched upon
[10:34.200 -> 10:36.900] that original version of the track,
[10:36.900 -> 10:40.560] which, you know, was certainly a more simplistic layout.
[10:40.560 -> 10:48.560] It was an upside down T and the rationale behind that kind of layout has been touched upon
[10:48.560 -> 10:55.440] is runoff. Obviously India, very, very well populated, very, very busy place. So if you
[10:55.440 -> 10:59.200] can imagine on a straight circuit, if you're trying to put in a bunch of fast corners,
[10:59.200 -> 11:02.240] you're either going to end up off in the lake or you're going to end up in a building.
[11:03.520 -> 11:09.160] So we figured that the best way around that is to try and have as many long straights
[11:09.160 -> 11:12.960] as possible and then come back on yourself, essentially quite a few hairpins.
[11:12.960 -> 11:19.760] And while I appreciate it may not be in people's top five circuits of all time, the idea was
[11:19.760 -> 11:26.760] to try and get a circuit which would generate close racing for the fact that it didn't have that many corners,
[11:26.760 -> 11:28.840] it would keep everyone very close together,
[11:28.840 -> 11:31.320] and a lot of slip streaming and some overtaking
[11:31.320 -> 11:33.640] for the big braking zones and the long straights.
[11:33.640 -> 11:35.160] It would have been amazing, just to say,
[11:35.160 -> 11:37.800] I think it would have created really cool racing.
[11:37.800 -> 11:40.200] We played about with it a lot on the simulator,
[11:40.200 -> 11:42.440] and yeah, it was really, really good fun,
[11:42.440 -> 11:45.120] just in terms of keeping everyone super close together.
[11:45.120 -> 11:47.200] So we originally designed that
[11:47.200 -> 11:50.880] with just the National Racing League,
[11:50.880 -> 11:53.520] which later became the India Racing League.
[11:53.520 -> 11:56.080] It's the X1 at the time, wasn't it?
[11:56.080 -> 11:59.240] And then there was conversations with Formula E thereafter.
[11:59.240 -> 12:00.560] Now it just so happened,
[12:00.560 -> 12:02.480] the paddock area that we were using
[12:02.480 -> 12:04.600] for the original T-shape,
[12:04.600 -> 12:05.360] we could no longer
[12:05.360 -> 12:11.520] use due to the enormous secretariat building that's been erected there. So we ended up
[12:11.520 -> 12:15.800] going through an area called NTR Gardens, which would later become the track that was
[12:15.800 -> 12:22.480] used for the IRL and Formula E. And what was really, really nice about it is we still managed
[12:22.480 -> 12:25.600] to keep some of the carriageway section,
[12:25.600 -> 12:30.480] which as Ben mentioned, was about 10 meters wide, which is perfect for a street circuit.
[12:31.440 -> 12:35.520] But then we also get to switch into this beautiful, picturesque garden.
[12:35.520 -> 12:40.080] So all of a sudden we ended up with the potential for a circuit with two completely different
[12:40.080 -> 12:50.120] characteristics, which doesn't happen particularly often, especially with street circuits. So it was suddenly a completely different challenge to eventually go over
[12:50.120 -> 12:55.640] there and see the site on foot because obviously we had this pesky pandemic in the way. So
[12:55.640 -> 13:01.960] a lot of this stuff was done remotely initially, wasn't it? But when the option came up for
[13:01.960 -> 13:07.240] the park, start of 2021, we walked through there and we managed to devise a route
[13:07.240 -> 13:11.840] that we thought could be fast flowing, challenging,
[13:13.960 -> 13:16.640] and then link back up to the carriageway section again.
[13:16.640 -> 13:19.240] So all of a sudden became this hybrid, didn't it?
[13:19.240 -> 13:23.200] Yeah, originally the parkland section was off limits,
[13:23.200 -> 13:24.040] that road, you know,
[13:24.040 -> 13:25.920] and I think what we've done now with Hyderabad is we've actually, people refer to the parkland section was off limits, that road, and I think what we've done now with Hyderabad
[13:25.920 -> 13:28.840] is we've actually, people refer to the park section.
[13:28.840 -> 13:29.760] You know, it's a distinct,
[13:29.760 -> 13:31.740] I like the park section of the track.
[13:31.740 -> 13:33.720] So it's become a sector in its own right
[13:33.720 -> 13:36.120] that's distinguishable, which is really cool.
[13:36.120 -> 13:38.840] So I think, and it adds a bit of,
[13:38.840 -> 13:41.040] adds a really cool backdrop to the lake section,
[13:41.040 -> 13:42.360] and then you've got the park section,
[13:42.360 -> 13:45.880] and then you come back round to the main start,
[13:45.880 -> 13:46.960] finish straight and pit paddock,
[13:46.960 -> 13:48.460] which we can tell you a little story
[13:48.460 -> 13:50.160] about the roundabout as well in a moment.
[13:50.160 -> 13:53.640] But yeah, I think what we've ended up with
[13:53.640 -> 13:55.280] is a really nice backdrop,
[13:55.280 -> 13:58.600] a beautiful circuit for Hyderabad to be proud of.
[13:58.600 -> 14:02.000] And also, I think more importantly,
[14:02.000 -> 14:03.200] we've left a bit of a legacy
[14:03.200 -> 14:05.520] in terms of infrastructure for the city.
[14:05.520 -> 14:14.880] So the barriers that are along the carriageway, they're now improved motorsport barriers that are left in place in situ
[14:14.880 -> 14:20.680] for the benefit of the road users. We don't need to demobilise and dismantle those every year.
[14:20.680 -> 14:25.840] They're left in situ. The parkland is a new road that weaves its way
[14:25.840 -> 14:30.160] through the city now and diverts from the secretariat.
[14:30.160 -> 14:35.160] So I have to give credit again to RPPL and Akhilesh Reddy,
[14:36.360 -> 14:38.680] who was the visionary behind the project.
[14:38.680 -> 14:41.240] He's done an incredible job to deliver it.
[14:41.240 -> 14:43.960] And five years ago, we sat here and said,
[14:43.960 -> 14:50.080] you're gonna deliver a street circuit for a world championship level in India, I probably wouldn't have believed you but I'm
[14:50.080 -> 14:55.120] really proud that we managed to deliver it and pull it off so yeah it's cool. And the evolution
[14:55.120 -> 14:58.800] of it was quite incredible too because for the first IRL round when we were there there were
[14:58.800 -> 15:03.040] lots of things that were still work in progress but by the time we got to round two a couple of
[15:03.040 -> 15:05.040] weeks later and then for Formula
[15:05.040 -> 15:09.280] E the improvement and the upgradation of the circuit if you can call it that way was just
[15:09.280 -> 15:14.080] remarkable but I've got two little nuggets that I want to talk to you about. You mentioned that
[15:14.080 -> 15:19.040] the idea for the for the garden layout was up there in 2021 at the start of the year.
[15:20.240 -> 15:24.240] That's a while ago so how did you guys when did you guys rather properly start working on the
[15:24.240 -> 15:26.760] circuit and just how many layouts did you change?
[15:26.760 -> 15:28.960] Because earlier on the gardens were off limit,
[15:28.960 -> 15:30.240] then you realized that they weren't apart.
[15:30.240 -> 15:31.540] So just how much do you have to work
[15:31.540 -> 15:33.320] on one particular circuit per se?
[15:33.320 -> 15:36.440] I think that project took us,
[15:36.440 -> 15:40.000] it would have been 2018, 2019 when we started.
[15:40.000 -> 15:42.040] So around, you know, actually it was 2019.
[15:42.040 -> 15:45.860] So three to four years in terms of planning and delivery. And that was everything from looking at the first ever feasibility, you know, actually it was 2019. So three to four years in terms of planning and delivery.
[15:45.860 -> 15:47.360] And that was everything from looking
[15:47.360 -> 15:50.560] at the first ever feasibility, you know, where, you know,
[15:50.560 -> 15:54.280] blank piece of paper, where can you do this in Hyderabad?
[15:54.280 -> 15:56.000] And that involved looking at lots of different sites
[15:56.000 -> 15:56.900] just to get road width.
[15:56.900 -> 15:59.240] So we spent a long time doing feasibilities
[16:00.640 -> 16:01.560] and looking at routes.
[16:01.560 -> 16:04.040] Then we have to go through the process of getting the FIA
[16:04.040 -> 16:05.560] to approve the track design,
[16:05.560 -> 16:09.600] which is not an easy thing to do, particularly on a street circuit,
[16:09.600 -> 16:13.200] where you've got lack of runoff areas compared to permanent tracks.
[16:13.200 -> 16:14.480] Then you have to have that approval.
[16:14.480 -> 16:20.320] And then obviously, the local developers, local client has to get all of the permits in place.
[16:20.320 -> 16:22.320] There's always changes along the way as well.
[16:22.320 -> 16:25.180] You know, we can't move certain infrastructure.
[16:26.360 -> 16:28.640] We wanted to retain as many trees as possible.
[16:28.640 -> 16:30.020] So it's a real evolution.
[16:32.320 -> 16:34.240] I mentioned the roundabout earlier
[16:34.240 -> 16:36.600] where towards the end of the lap,
[16:36.600 -> 16:37.440] where the pit bit,
[16:37.440 -> 16:40.880] it's an L-shaped pit lane, you might recall,
[16:40.880 -> 16:42.560] which is quite a novelty.
[16:42.560 -> 16:44.000] And that came about actually
[16:44.000 -> 16:47.680] because the only reason, originally we wanted to run straight up to the roundabout and do a
[16:47.680 -> 16:52.000] 90 degree right. Obviously you've got the statue there and the temples,
[16:52.000 -> 16:55.780] we can't modify that roundabout. And we identified that it was going to be a
[16:55.780 -> 16:59.240] runoff problem because you'd be coming into the roundabout and having to kink,
[16:59.240 -> 17:03.680] you know, kink around the roundabout. So there was no straight ahead runoff. And
[17:03.680 -> 17:06.960] funnily enough we were on site and we noticed a gate
[17:06.960 -> 17:10.120] into this deserted paddock area.
[17:10.120 -> 17:13.540] So what happens if we just do a right left through here?
[17:13.540 -> 17:15.880] We can create a cool chicane and is it okay
[17:15.880 -> 17:17.060] to have an L-shaped pit lane?
[17:17.060 -> 17:18.840] So we explored it.
[17:18.840 -> 17:21.080] We came up with about four or five different ways
[17:21.080 -> 17:25.660] of doing it, diagonal, L-shaped, all sorts.
[17:25.660 -> 17:27.340] And we landed on the L-shape.
[17:27.340 -> 17:29.220] We had to simulate it to check the cars
[17:29.220 -> 17:30.960] because physically drive through there
[17:30.960 -> 17:33.240] and make it through the pit lane without easing off.
[17:33.240 -> 17:35.880] And Formula E were supportive of it.
[17:35.880 -> 17:37.720] And that's how we ended up with that solution.
[17:37.720 -> 17:40.440] So there's all these evolutions of the design.
[17:40.440 -> 17:43.280] But if you look back at the first site layout
[17:43.280 -> 17:45.640] for that track, notwithstanding the
[17:45.640 -> 17:49.840] T-shape track that Dan mentioned, it's not, you know, it's recognisable, it's just fine
[17:49.840 -> 17:55.920] tuned all the way along and I think that's probably fair to say for all of our projects.
[17:55.920 -> 17:59.000] Same with any, you know, probably the same as designing a car, if you look at the first
[17:59.000 -> 18:03.840] sketch versus what's built, it'll always be different but recognisable, hopefully.
[18:03.840 -> 18:06.400] Wow, so just at what
[18:06.400 -> 18:10.240] point do you really finalize a layout and how many approvals do you guys need because
[18:10.880 -> 18:14.800] firstly there's the client, then this championship that you're racing with, then the government to
[18:14.800 -> 18:19.760] make sure things are okay. Does the project really stop and take a lot of time to manage all those
[18:19.760 -> 18:27.560] things especially when it's a street circuit like Hyderabad and even Mandir Nipah for Indonesia as well? Yeah, so obviously there's a lot of back and forth
[18:27.560 -> 18:29.600] between us and the client.
[18:29.600 -> 18:31.840] Initially to establish things like constraints,
[18:31.840 -> 18:35.160] as we mentioned, that's a theme that keeps coming up a lot.
[18:35.160 -> 18:38.320] But yeah, obviously we come up with something
[18:38.320 -> 18:40.200] that we're internally very happy with
[18:40.200 -> 18:41.720] that we can then present to the client,
[18:41.720 -> 18:43.560] ensure that they're happy with it.
[18:43.560 -> 18:46.800] And then obviously dependent on whether it's a street race
[18:46.800 -> 18:49.400] or whatnot, they then will have communications
[18:49.400 -> 18:50.660] with the government, with the city,
[18:50.660 -> 18:54.080] just to ensure that everything's okay on that front.
[18:54.080 -> 18:56.280] And then we need to look at that accreditation
[18:56.280 -> 18:57.600] from the FIA.
[18:57.600 -> 19:01.360] So the FIA require a dossier to be put together,
[19:01.360 -> 19:03.360] which includes a track plan,
[19:04.280 -> 19:07.280] the vertical profiling, some cross sections.
[19:08.240 -> 19:12.340] So we prepare that dossier, we send that off to the FIA.
[19:12.340 -> 19:14.960] We would then wait to hear some feedback.
[19:15.940 -> 19:18.900] Upon them being happy with the solutions
[19:18.900 -> 19:20.120] that we've come up with,
[19:20.120 -> 19:23.920] they can then grant a provisional license.
[19:23.920 -> 19:28.080] That final license is then granted upon site inspection.
[19:29.040 -> 19:35.040] So then and only then can they sign their name on the dotted line and award the license. But yeah,
[19:35.040 -> 19:40.880] it's a lot of to and fro, particularly with street circuits. You know, as Ben just mentioned,
[19:41.600 -> 19:51.440] it's almost never final until it's final really when it came to yeah you know street circuits there's lots of little amendments even on site um you know if
[19:51.440 -> 19:57.280] there's a slight difference between the survey in real life or if something has changed since then
[19:57.840 -> 20:02.240] there's always all these little bits and pieces that you only realize when you're on site that
[20:02.240 -> 20:05.360] may need to be um slightly. But the FIA are
[20:05.360 -> 20:11.360] really good at understanding, particularly when it comes to street circuits, in that they understand
[20:11.360 -> 20:16.160] some of the limitations, some of the changes, and that is constantly evolving. The main thing on our
[20:16.160 -> 20:21.600] side really, where we add the value, is the FIA approvals and the track safety approvals. You know,
[20:22.240 -> 20:26.400] usually the local, you need a good client and a good developer
[20:26.400 -> 20:28.800] that's got a good understanding of all the local permits.
[20:28.800 -> 20:32.120] And we work with them to try and accommodate any changes that
[20:32.120 -> 20:33.240] might be required.
[20:33.240 -> 20:35.520] Hyderabad, we were constantly making changes
[20:35.520 -> 20:38.200] because of approvals.
[20:38.200 -> 20:41.240] And obviously, we wanted to keep as much trees as possible
[20:41.240 -> 20:42.880] and infrastructure that was in the way.
[20:42.880 -> 20:45.780] So it was constant updates you know, updates,
[20:45.780 -> 20:49.660] but really our job is to accommodate that,
[20:49.660 -> 20:51.640] make sure that ultimately the race can happen.
[20:51.640 -> 20:54.520] And then on the approval side is really the FIA.
[20:54.520 -> 20:57.160] And we, as Dan said, we run our own simulations first.
[20:57.160 -> 20:59.680] So this is what gives us a bit of a headstart
[20:59.680 -> 21:02.760] in terms of we're almost pre-approving our design
[21:02.760 -> 21:03.760] before it's submitted.
[21:03.760 -> 21:09.360] We're very confident when we submit it that it's all in shape and we can answer questions. No major surprises. Yeah,
[21:09.360 -> 21:13.200] the way the FIA approve it by the way, they have a commission, a circuits commission, who meet.
[21:13.760 -> 21:19.440] So you get a lot of race directors, safety officials, the circuit safety department,
[21:19.440 -> 21:23.200] they'll run a simulation on the track and then they'll review it as a team and then they'll
[21:23.200 -> 21:26.540] give us a report back with comments on, you know, maybe changing
[21:26.540 -> 21:32.180] a barrier angle or changing from a tire barrier to a tech pro barrier for high
[21:32.180 -> 21:33.320] energy impact.
[21:34.160 -> 21:38.840] So, yeah, we can have that sort of collaborative process with the FIA and we
[21:38.840 -> 21:43.640] obviously with them in India with FMSCI, who are the national governing body,
[21:43.640 -> 21:44.940] you have been really good to work with.
[21:44.940 -> 21:45.000] So it's, yeah, it's just a collaborative process back and forth. in India with FMSCI who are the national governing body who have been really good to work with.
[21:45.000 -> 21:51.600] So it's just a collaborative process back and forth, but ultimately that's where our responsibility lies
[21:51.600 -> 21:54.200] is to make sure that the track gets its accreditation.
[21:54.200 -> 21:57.600] We were quite proud to get a grade 2 license in Hyderabad.
[21:57.600 -> 21:59.200] And I'm so curious about this part.
[21:59.200 -> 22:04.000] When you're at a street circuit like Hyderabad, just how involved are the government bodies?
[22:04.000 -> 22:05.280] Essentially, you're taking their
[22:05.280 -> 22:10.160] land. So do they have a lot of input in what really happens in the circuit? And how involved
[22:10.160 -> 22:15.040] are they on a day to day basis? I think broadly, we had great support from the government,
[22:15.040 -> 22:22.960] so from HGMA to make this happen. And the Department of Transport and various ministers and
[22:24.480 -> 22:25.000] all the authorities
[22:25.480 -> 22:26.680] that were involved in approving it.
[22:26.680 -> 22:30.720] They could see that there was a huge benefit for the city
[22:30.720 -> 22:32.760] in terms of bringing this world-class event
[22:32.760 -> 22:33.920] and race to the city.
[22:33.920 -> 22:38.920] So the location was approved quite early on in the process.
[22:41.280 -> 22:42.760] Inevitably, as you go through
[22:42.760 -> 22:47.800] and you start to get into more detail about a certain know, a certain tree or a curb line or a road
[22:47.800 -> 22:52.280] or a barrier, then you get into smaller sort of realignments
[22:52.280 -> 22:54.240] of the track to work around some of those things.
[22:54.240 -> 22:57.320] And that was, I think the last one that we changed
[22:57.320 -> 23:02.320] was turn 14, 13, 14, there was some widths there,
[23:02.480 -> 23:05.280] some walls and stuff that we had to move and that was done
[23:05.280 -> 23:06.280] quite late.
[23:06.280 -> 23:07.280] Yes, it was.
[23:07.280 -> 23:13.120] Just before, I think a week or two before the FIA dossier was going in.
[23:13.120 -> 23:19.360] So yeah, Dan has a few more gray hairs now as a result of that.
[23:19.360 -> 23:28.600] But that's the nature of dealing in the street circuit. So yeah, it was constant change really.
[23:28.600 -> 23:31.200] Or constant evolution, I think is probably a better word
[23:31.200 -> 23:32.040] rather than change.
[23:32.040 -> 23:33.680] It was finer adjustments.
[23:33.680 -> 23:35.840] Yeah, and just at the other end of that as well,
[23:35.840 -> 23:38.720] was when it came to the actual construction
[23:38.720 -> 23:40.240] just prior to the race,
[23:40.240 -> 23:42.640] we would leave gaps in the barriers
[23:42.640 -> 23:46.480] for some of these shop owners to be able to get in and out if
[23:46.480 -> 23:53.200] they had things delivered. Because yeah, with the road closures, that was, you know, it was only up
[23:53.200 -> 23:59.840] until a day or so before the event that that came to pass. So it was important that there was still
[23:59.840 -> 24:08.080] access there for some of the shop owners and whatnot. I think that's a really nice scheme on the Hyderabad circuit
[24:08.160 -> 24:10.920] where the parkland was obviously a dedicated road
[24:10.920 -> 24:12.000] just for the track.
[24:12.000 -> 24:14.000] So there was no real minimal impact there
[24:14.000 -> 24:14.960] in terms of disruption.
[24:14.960 -> 24:16.280] In fact, it was a new road.
[24:17.240 -> 24:20.540] The highway or the dual carriageway section that we use,
[24:20.540 -> 24:22.960] that was managed through diversions.
[24:22.960 -> 24:26.480] The real impact was then just from turn 14 to 15.
[24:26.480 -> 24:28.600] But if you look on the design, we actually left,
[24:28.600 -> 24:30.640] we only used one side of the carriageway.
[24:30.640 -> 24:32.200] So all the shops and everything like this
[24:32.200 -> 24:33.040] could still be accessed.
[24:33.040 -> 24:33.860] Which is deliberate.
[24:33.860 -> 24:34.700] So that was deliberate.
[24:34.700 -> 24:36.320] Ah, and it's worked out so, so well.
[24:36.320 -> 24:37.840] I really love watching it
[24:37.840 -> 24:39.640] and also playing it on the simulator.
[24:39.640 -> 24:43.200] And that makes me wonder, simulation and the driver.
[24:43.200 -> 24:44.680] You've obviously mentioned that the driver
[24:44.680 -> 24:49.160] obviously comes first in terms of what you think of when you design a layout, but how
[24:49.160 -> 24:54.060] much driver input actually goes into the planning process and what happens in there?
[24:54.060 -> 24:57.640] What sort of feedback do you get from them and how do you tinker it accordingly?
[24:57.640 -> 25:01.920] I'm glad that you enjoy it and you like the changes you've made.
[25:01.920 -> 25:04.820] Thanks for the comments on Hyderabad.
[25:04.820 -> 25:05.920] We take the driver feedback really seriously, I yeah, thanks for the comments on Hyderabad. I think, yeah, I mean, we take the driver feedback
[25:05.920 -> 25:09.240] really seriously, I think at both stages of the project.
[25:09.240 -> 25:10.680] So with Hyderabad, we were actually talking
[25:10.680 -> 25:11.520] to a lot of the drivers,
[25:11.520 -> 25:13.640] particularly during the Indian Racing League to get there,
[25:13.640 -> 25:17.140] because it was easier to access and talk to a lot of them.
[25:18.000 -> 25:20.880] So they gave us some really useful insights to the tracks.
[25:20.880 -> 25:22.320] So we'll take that on board all the time
[25:22.320 -> 25:27.200] and build up new contacts and always looking online
[25:27.200 -> 25:28.800] at driver comments and things like this.
[25:28.800 -> 25:32.360] But ultimately at the design stage,
[25:32.360 -> 25:35.520] we do a lot of work, driver in the loop simulator.
[25:35.520 -> 25:39.400] So just switching to Yas Marina that you mentioned
[25:39.400 -> 25:42.800] in particular, turn five, which was designed here in Hook.
[25:42.800 -> 25:44.520] We, in fact, Dan and I sat together
[25:44.520 -> 25:45.760] and did the geometry on it.
[25:47.000 -> 25:49.460] We played around a lot with that in terms of track width,
[25:49.460 -> 25:50.600] where to put the apex.
[25:50.600 -> 25:52.940] And we had, you know, we knew it was going to be a hairpin.
[25:52.940 -> 25:54.020] That was clear.
[25:55.000 -> 25:58.400] What we then needed to do is decide, was it a late apex?
[25:58.400 -> 26:01.000] Was it a harder braking zone with an early apex?
[26:01.000 -> 26:03.520] And it actually changes the racing a lot.
[26:04.880 -> 26:07.560] So we built a few iterations of that,
[26:07.560 -> 26:09.760] put it in our simulator and we work quite closely
[26:09.760 -> 26:12.800] with Karun Chandok, obviously a very well-known
[26:12.800 -> 26:16.600] Indian racing driver, one of the only two F1 drivers
[26:16.600 -> 26:17.700] from India, I believe.
[26:19.200 -> 26:21.760] So Karun worked quite closely with us on that
[26:21.760 -> 26:24.560] in terms of testing the track in the simulator.
[26:24.560 -> 26:28.360] And for Formula One projects, we've worked quite closely with us on that in terms of testing the track in the simulator. And for Formula One projects, we've worked very closely with Formula One as well
[26:28.360 -> 26:32.640] and their internal department in terms of running different simulations and scenarios
[26:32.640 -> 26:38.040] on the track. So there's a lot of analysis that goes into the layout before you fix
[26:38.240 -> 26:42.560] and decide on one because it's much harder to change it later on once you've got into
[26:42.560 -> 26:44.240] detailed design and construction.
[26:44.320 -> 26:46.560] You know, you need to be sure of what you're doing.
[26:46.560 -> 26:50.800] We were amazed and very happy with the outcome.
[26:50.800 -> 26:56.320] Not if you're a Lewis Hamilton fan, obviously, he got passed,
[26:56.320 -> 26:58.320] but who knows what would have happened if it wasn't there.
[26:58.320 -> 27:02.080] I think it made for an amazing finale.
[27:02.080 -> 27:06.120] I think the track did contribute to it,
[27:06.120 -> 27:08.040] which we're very proud of.
[27:08.040 -> 27:09.800] Actually on the simulation aspect of it,
[27:09.800 -> 27:11.200] that gets me really curious.
[27:11.200 -> 27:13.440] So when you're working with the promoter of the sport
[27:13.440 -> 27:15.840] and also the governing body like the FIA,
[27:15.840 -> 27:18.760] or even the FIM for that matter, for one of your circuits,
[27:18.760 -> 27:21.420] just what sort of simulations are they looking at?
[27:21.420 -> 27:24.240] Is it just also only the feel of the track
[27:24.240 -> 27:25.040] or are they also looking at things
[27:25.040 -> 27:32.400] like crash tests as well? And how extensive is that process? So the FIA and FIM and any governing
[27:32.400 -> 27:37.680] body that their their main priority, as is ours, obviously, is safety. So they'll be looking at the
[27:37.680 -> 27:42.480] safety, the speed of the circuit, the runoff areas, any potential impact with barriers. And that's
[27:42.480 -> 27:47.200] really what they're simulating. So that's more of a mathematical formula
[27:47.200 -> 27:50.040] where they'll look at the racing line around the track
[27:50.040 -> 27:52.560] and run off distances and work with us to advise us
[27:52.560 -> 27:56.280] on the safety of the circuit.
[27:56.280 -> 27:59.720] But we use more driver in the loop simulation.
[27:59.720 -> 28:04.720] So it's more of a digital twin of the circuit that we build.
[28:04.900 -> 28:06.660] And so you actually drive it on the simulator.
[28:06.660 -> 28:09.880] And we, like for us, we're looking at twofold.
[28:09.880 -> 28:10.920] We're looking at one,
[28:10.920 -> 28:14.460] what's the intuitive kind of feel of the circuit?
[28:14.460 -> 28:15.540] How does it look and feel?
[28:15.540 -> 28:18.600] Do you get a good first impression as a driver?
[28:18.600 -> 28:20.860] And we work with lots of drivers in different categories
[28:20.860 -> 28:22.720] from single-seaters, the GT,
[28:22.720 -> 28:24.620] and obviously we mentioned Karun earlier,
[28:24.620 -> 28:28.680] who's one of our friends that we work with a lot on developing the track
[28:28.680 -> 28:33.920] design. So we we get some first-round of comments from drivers you know this
[28:33.920 -> 28:37.880] corner is too tight or I don't like this section or this this needs to be opened
[28:37.880 -> 28:43.360] out but then really we start to delve into the data like with Yas Marina at
[28:43.360 -> 28:49.520] turn 5 we were looking at the top speed into the corner versus the apex speed, so we're looking at braking, you know, what's
[28:49.520 -> 28:55.080] the braking delta and how that might affect overtaking. But then also you have to be quite
[28:55.080 -> 28:59.840] careful to look at the knock-on effect to the next turn. So if you change one corner,
[28:59.840 -> 29:06.640] what's the knock-on effect on the next corner and so on. We can't afford to necessarily be speeding the track up
[29:06.640 -> 29:09.240] or changing the speeds everywhere around the circuit
[29:09.240 -> 29:11.400] because it then affects the safety at each corner
[29:11.400 -> 29:13.400] or the design and characteristics at each corner.
[29:13.400 -> 29:18.400] So with Turn 5, we wanted to create a bigger braking zone
[29:18.840 -> 29:23.200] into the corner to potentially allow for overtaking.
[29:23.200 -> 29:25.940] But also, if you look at the design itself,
[29:25.940 -> 29:29.560] it also allows the cars to carry more speed generally
[29:29.560 -> 29:32.800] through the apex and follow each other more closely.
[29:32.800 -> 29:36.600] And we're now seeing that they're able to follow
[29:36.600 -> 29:38.400] each other more onto the back straight as well.
[29:38.400 -> 29:40.000] So into turn six.
[29:41.400 -> 29:42.920] But the speed neutralizes again,
[29:42.920 -> 29:47.080] you're back to the same speed up at turn six, which is
[29:47.080 -> 29:49.980] important so we didn't have to modify any of the runoffs there.
[29:49.980 -> 29:55.860] So it's quite a deep dive into a lot of looking at what a race engineer would look at really
[29:55.860 -> 29:57.620] in terms of data of the circuit.
[29:57.620 -> 29:58.620] It's fun.
[29:58.620 -> 30:00.600] So this is the challenge.
[30:00.600 -> 30:05.360] We went back and forth on a few design philosophies for Turn 5 in particular as well, didn't we?
[30:05.360 -> 30:13.680] Because there was always that option of having quite a cut and dry hairpin, just very heavy braking, U-turn.
[30:13.680 -> 30:18.560] But then we also spoke about the idea of perhaps having not quite a hidden apex in there,
[30:18.560 -> 30:21.720] but a bit of a late apex, which perhaps wasn't as obvious.
[30:21.720 -> 30:23.640] And that's what we went for in the end.
[30:23.640 -> 30:25.300] If you look at it overhead,
[30:25.300 -> 30:28.880] it is actually quite an unusual corner.
[30:28.880 -> 30:30.880] It's very, very wide,
[30:30.880 -> 30:32.840] but the apex is quite light
[30:32.840 -> 30:36.520] and it's not as obvious as some other hairpins.
[30:36.520 -> 30:39.320] So the design philosophy there was
[30:40.160 -> 30:42.720] create some different racing lines.
[30:42.720 -> 30:44.520] The overtake that you do get there
[30:44.520 -> 30:47.760] is probably gonna be quite an interesting one rather than just a
[30:48.240 -> 30:50.240] you know a
[30:50.600 -> 30:56.960] generic overtake into a hairpin. But more than anything you're probably going to get some good racing onto the back straight afterwards.
[30:57.240 -> 30:59.280] What's been really nice is I've watched
[30:59.960 -> 31:03.480] some of the GT racing there and you do see
[31:02.400 -> 31:05.960] some of the GT racing there. And you do see, particularly when somebody's trying
[31:05.960 -> 31:07.760] to follow the leader, they'll try something
[31:07.760 -> 31:09.640] completely different through turn five
[31:09.640 -> 31:12.720] to try and create something, perhaps down to turn six.
[31:12.720 -> 31:15.840] So I think in that sense, we're really happy
[31:15.840 -> 31:17.440] with how it came out.
[31:17.440 -> 31:20.360] And then obviously you saw with Max Verstappen,
[31:20.360 -> 31:24.080] you know, in a fairly unusual set of circumstances,
[31:24.080 -> 31:26.880] but making that move on the final lap,
[31:26.880 -> 31:29.400] it shows that there is an opportunity to do it there
[31:29.400 -> 31:32.480] and it is probably gonna be quite a brave pass.
[31:32.480 -> 31:35.320] But if not, there's an opportunity thereafter.
[31:35.320 -> 31:37.480] So yeah, we were really happy
[31:37.480 -> 31:39.520] with how that turn in particular came out.
[31:39.520 -> 31:41.360] I think the other thing we asked Marina as well,
[31:41.360 -> 31:43.460] that people don't, like some of the detail
[31:43.460 -> 31:45.160] that people won't have picked up on
[31:45.160 -> 31:47.700] is that you're dealing with an existing circuit
[31:47.700 -> 31:49.360] that's got asphalt runoffs, right?
[31:49.360 -> 31:53.440] So we had to, and if you look on the layout,
[31:53.440 -> 31:56.200] we've still kept the old chicane that was there originally,
[31:56.200 -> 31:58.120] that can still be used by the way.
[31:58.120 -> 32:02.000] So the apex as well being later around the corner
[32:02.000 -> 32:04.000] also works with the older chicane.
[32:04.000 -> 32:09.000] So clearly if you put an early apex in, there'd be a curb in the way of the old chicane.
[32:09.000 -> 32:12.000] So that was a factor as well.
[32:12.000 -> 32:18.000] And then also, how do you get everything to tie back in to all the existing, you know, drainage and runoff areas and everything?
[32:18.000 -> 32:23.000] So, again, it comes back to what we were saying at the beginning about working with certain constraints,
[32:23.000 -> 32:27.520] but not letting them dictate it too much. You still want to have the circuit was still at
[32:27.520 -> 32:31.520] the forefront. We had to make the circuit good, but it still has to work with all the constraints.
[32:31.520 -> 32:38.640] So there was a few hidden ones that we were dealing with there as well. It was a challenging
[32:38.640 -> 32:45.000] project. We also put in a new 5% banked corner, turn 9 as well,
[32:46.320 -> 32:49.520] which was probably the biggest change to the circuit
[32:49.520 -> 32:51.480] that allows the cars to follow more closely
[32:51.480 -> 32:53.400] and into the hotel section as well.
[32:53.400 -> 32:57.520] So it has changed the character of the circuit
[32:57.520 -> 33:00.040] quite a bit, but we're really proud of it.
[33:01.160 -> 33:02.920] Yeah, I can see a bit of a smile coming on your faces
[33:02.920 -> 33:03.800] when you talk about that.
[33:03.800 -> 33:07.280] It really has worked incredibly well, Yas Marina.
[33:07.280 -> 33:12.040] And when you spoke about the bank changes that got me thinking so much about the challenges
[33:12.040 -> 33:15.200] of it, because surely, right, you're looking at so many different types of them, you're
[33:15.200 -> 33:19.720] looking at, say, minute things that are deciding where the curbs will be, or what sort of tarmac
[33:19.720 -> 33:23.440] will be there, or what sort of runoff will you have, or even how the drainage gets linked
[33:23.440 -> 33:30.080] in, but also things like executing a banking. So amidst all these different things, that's what really happens to be the most
[33:30.080 -> 33:34.240] challenging part of designing a layout. Is it just convincing the people because the design is
[33:34.240 -> 33:41.120] something that comes naturally to you? I think really so for new circuits oddly enough is
[33:41.120 -> 33:45.980] slightly easier I would say because you have a complete blank canvas.
[33:45.980 -> 33:47.380] There's often less constraints,
[33:47.380 -> 33:49.140] particularly if you've got a site where you're working,
[33:49.140 -> 33:50.700] you know, in a greenfield site.
[33:51.740 -> 33:53.540] You know, you can use all the topography.
[33:53.540 -> 33:57.100] You can, you know, there's no buildings usually in the way
[33:57.100 -> 33:59.140] or existing features to work around.
[33:59.140 -> 34:01.420] And a lot of our clients will really,
[34:01.420 -> 34:03.500] they trust us to come up with the best design.
[34:03.500 -> 34:09.760] You know, we've got all the tools at our disposal that we can come up with a nice layout and we like to get input
[34:09.760 -> 34:16.040] from clients and we have different customers where some clients that we work with, they
[34:16.040 -> 34:28.600] are race drivers and they're car enthusiasts, others more so more commercial property developers, for example, that are less hands on in terms of understanding motorsports.
[34:29.320 -> 34:32.840] So they really tend to allow us to do our job
[34:32.840 -> 34:34.240] and do it well, which we're thankful for.
[34:34.240 -> 34:35.520] We always keep them in the loop
[34:35.520 -> 34:38.160] and present all the track designs to them
[34:38.160 -> 34:40.620] and try to explain it in the best way that we can.
[34:42.520 -> 34:47.560] With upgrades, it's much harder because you're into, okay, there's a drain here or
[34:47.560 -> 34:52.200] there's a building here. Turn nine at Yas Marina, we would have loved to have made that
[34:52.200 -> 34:56.160] even, we would have loved to make it as steep as possible, but the reality is you've got
[34:56.160 -> 35:01.240] a marina on the outside, you've got a service road that needs to be built. If we cranked
[35:01.240 -> 35:05.720] it over too much more, the people from the marina and the yachts wouldn't have seen the track.
[35:05.720 -> 35:12.400] So, you know, there's things like this that you just can't, well you could do, but it probably wouldn't be in everyone's best interest.
[35:12.400 -> 35:15.600] So there's that balancing act.
[35:15.600 -> 35:27.400] We had pipelines under the circuit as well, floodlights to deal with, generators to work around. So the track kind of, again, comes back to this,
[35:27.400 -> 35:32.400] the constraints do impact quite heavily on your design,
[35:32.600 -> 35:34.120] but they mustn't dictate it.
[35:34.120 -> 35:36.840] That's the thing that I think we always have in our head.
[35:36.840 -> 35:39.800] We knew we wanted to have some super elevation
[35:39.800 -> 35:40.760] on that corner.
[35:40.760 -> 35:42.880] We knew we wanted it to be a faster entry.
[35:42.880 -> 35:44.840] We knew we wanted to carry the speed
[35:44.840 -> 35:49.400] into the hotel section. So that was the brief. We made that happen, but there was an awful
[35:49.400 -> 35:54.480] lot of things that we had to work around. So it's a major civil engineering project
[35:54.480 -> 35:59.840] at the end of the day. So it's, and we have a team here that look at that very, very carefully,
[35:59.840 -> 36:06.480] all the drainage, the civil's works, all of the gradients of the track, the curb installations.
[36:06.480 -> 36:09.120] So we created demolition plans of all the stuff
[36:09.120 -> 36:11.040] that needed to be removed and reinstalled
[36:11.040 -> 36:12.040] and what could be saved.
[36:12.040 -> 36:15.880] So it's a big process of design.
[36:15.880 -> 36:18.000] And then ultimately, we're there on site
[36:18.000 -> 36:20.560] as well to oversee it.
[36:20.560 -> 36:21.480] So yeah.
[36:21.480 -> 36:24.640] It's the constraints that make it rewarding, isn't it?
[36:24.640 -> 36:31.420] Because actually, if you're given an enormous plot of land, it's almost sometimes difficult
[36:31.420 -> 36:32.920] to know where to start, isn't it?
[36:32.920 -> 36:39.640] Whereas when you've got these incredible constraints, it really does get you thinking and it's ultimately
[36:39.640 -> 36:40.640] very, very rewarding.
[36:40.640 -> 36:45.360] You know, like Hyderabad being an excellent example, Street Circuit, you know,
[36:45.360 -> 36:50.480] spinning a few plates there to make sure that everybody's happy. And it's those that can often
[36:50.480 -> 36:56.400] be the most rewarding. And I think Yas Marina is another good example where it's an existing
[36:56.400 -> 37:01.840] facility, everything on top of it, the fact that it has night races as well, as mentioned, flood
[37:01.840 -> 37:05.120] lighting, generators, and the fact that you've got the
[37:05.120 -> 37:09.200] marina there, so you've got to think about it, but there's so many things that has to
[37:09.840 -> 37:15.360] be considered that come out with a good result is really rewarding.
[37:15.360 -> 37:20.080] I think there's one big difference between Hyderabad and Yas Marina, obviously the fact
[37:20.080 -> 37:23.920] that one's a street circuit, India, one's a permanent Formula One circuit, but
[37:25.440 -> 37:33.200] that one's a street circuit, India one's a permanent Formula One circuit, but the approach on it was that with Hyderabad we were really starting from, you know, starting a brand new
[37:33.200 -> 37:37.520] project from scratch with, you know, someone that had never, you know, they'd never run a motor race
[37:37.520 -> 37:42.880] before, it was new to them, so we really had to like take them on the journey. With Yas Marina,
[37:42.880 -> 37:47.360] and this is what we tend to try and do with a lot of projects, we've got established circuits,
[37:47.360 -> 37:50.740] we spent a long time talking to the operations team
[37:50.740 -> 37:52.040] to understand how they, you know,
[37:52.040 -> 37:53.800] how do you get recovery vehicles in and out?
[37:53.800 -> 37:55.160] Where are your hotspots?
[37:56.240 -> 37:59.320] You know, what floodlights to use for track days?
[37:59.320 -> 38:01.360] Because we don't want to go in and interrupt all their,
[38:01.360 -> 38:03.080] you know, outside of Formula One,
[38:03.080 -> 38:04.760] interrupt all of their track day business.
[38:04.760 -> 38:06.960] So we had to really get under the skin
[38:06.960 -> 38:10.600] of how the track operates and how the venue
[38:10.600 -> 38:12.640] and the owner uses their asset
[38:12.640 -> 38:15.440] and then how can we best design to help them
[38:15.440 -> 38:17.840] either keep what they've got or improve it.
[38:17.840 -> 38:20.720] And I think that was a big part of that project.
[38:20.720 -> 38:21.560] And it was really good.
[38:21.560 -> 38:23.040] We worked really well with our team there.
[38:23.040 -> 38:23.880] It was nice.
[38:23.880 -> 38:30.480] And we made some good friends with their team and yeah I think hopefully they're happy with it as well so
[38:31.520 -> 38:36.560] that's a big consideration is the operational aspect as well. Yeah that's an important point
[38:36.560 -> 38:43.760] actually Ben because you know I think what's easy to forget is the rest of the year.
[38:45.440 -> 38:48.600] You know obviously a lot of people think about the main event,
[38:48.600 -> 38:51.300] the Formula One, but you need to think about
[38:51.300 -> 38:53.400] those Monday to Fridays or those weekends
[38:53.400 -> 38:55.180] where there's no race events on,
[38:55.180 -> 38:56.480] where people are doing track days.
[38:56.480 -> 38:58.720] They often use split versions of the circuit,
[38:58.720 -> 39:00.980] so the configuration's completely different
[39:00.980 -> 39:04.220] and we need to be very respectful of that.
[39:04.220 -> 39:06.400] Essentially, we don't want to make anything worse.
[39:06.400 -> 39:09.880] We want to ask them, what can we do to improve what's there already?
[39:10.140 -> 39:12.400] What can we do to make your life a little bit easier?
[39:12.400 -> 39:17.460] So, you know, particularly on Yas Marina, that's a really good example of how we
[39:17.460 -> 39:20.680] work very closely with them to make sure that what we were doing was actually
[39:20.680 -> 39:25.720] enhancing day to day as well, not just for the cameras for Formula One,
[39:25.720 -> 39:27.720] but also operationally day-to-day,
[39:27.720 -> 39:30.840] what can we do to make things run even more smoothly.
[39:32.560 -> 39:35.000] Wait, so what was their brief to you?
[39:35.000 -> 39:36.920] Did they just come up and say, make this better?
[39:36.920 -> 39:38.760] It's not fun enough, it's not good enough racing,
[39:38.760 -> 39:39.600] just make it better.
[39:39.600 -> 39:41.080] Was that what they said?
[39:41.080 -> 39:44.680] No, we had a brief, a clear brief from the circuit
[39:44.680 -> 39:48.240] and from Formula One. And, you
[39:48.240 -> 39:51.760] know, there was some ideas put forward from Formula One already for us to start with.
[39:51.760 -> 39:55.160] So it was good. It was a good collaboration. Like the circuit already had an idea of where
[39:55.160 -> 40:00.360] they wanted to go with this. But they used us to stress test those ideas and sort of
[40:00.360 -> 40:05.920] sanity check and verify some of them. We were able to go into a lot more detail
[40:05.920 -> 40:08.520] with the simulator and looking at cross sections
[40:08.520 -> 40:10.760] and grandstand views and things like that
[40:10.760 -> 40:13.700] to make finer tweaks to it.
[40:15.360 -> 40:17.760] We also explored other areas of the circuit
[40:17.760 -> 40:18.880] to modify to be fair.
[40:18.880 -> 40:21.400] We looked at every corner,
[40:21.400 -> 40:23.100] we looked at the whole lap as one,
[40:24.640 -> 40:27.440] and then we worked with Formula One to execute on
[40:28.360 -> 40:29.720] the concept.
[40:29.720 -> 40:32.680] Tilker had already looked at it as well some years back,
[40:32.680 -> 40:34.320] we have to give credit there,
[40:34.320 -> 40:36.160] they'd looked at it with Formula One
[40:36.160 -> 40:37.240] back in the day as well.
[40:37.240 -> 40:41.480] So, and it landed with us working with Mark1 Consulting.
[40:41.480 -> 40:43.560] Mark had been involved quite heavily
[40:43.560 -> 40:46.100] at the circuit operationally.
[40:46.100 -> 40:47.680] So we were able to put our heads together
[40:47.680 -> 40:50.500] and take the brief, develop the concept further.
[40:50.500 -> 40:52.940] We had to look at how much it was gonna cost to build,
[40:52.940 -> 40:54.380] how long it would take to do,
[40:54.380 -> 40:56.480] because we knew we had a Grand Prix to deliver on that date,
[40:56.480 -> 40:58.060] wasn't gonna change.
[40:58.060 -> 41:03.060] So yeah, it was some sleepless nights, put it that way,
[41:04.540 -> 41:08.400] in terms of working, but we were really keen to do
[41:08.400 -> 41:13.520] it and it was a good project for us to show that what we can do at Formula One level.
[41:14.880 -> 41:18.640] Gentlemen, there's so much more that I want to discuss with you. But I'd like to end with this
[41:18.640 -> 41:23.360] one last question for today about the people who you tend to work with, because you spoke a lot
[41:23.360 -> 41:26.440] about the teams within your team, in fact, that you spoke a lot about the teams and within your team, in fact,
[41:26.440 -> 41:28.720] that a lot of people and the design work that goes in,
[41:28.720 -> 41:30.200] not just into the layout side,
[41:30.200 -> 41:32.480] but also the civil engineering side of it as well.
[41:32.480 -> 41:34.840] And also I can imagine legal relations,
[41:34.840 -> 41:36.720] talking to other people, managing all that side,
[41:36.720 -> 41:39.120] and also putting out your work to the other people.
[41:39.120 -> 41:40.520] So when you're hiring,
[41:40.520 -> 41:42.200] when you're looking at people to get in
[41:42.200 -> 41:43.600] as a part of your team,
[41:43.600 -> 41:45.240] just what are you looking at normally?
[41:45.240 -> 41:47.240] And what sort of people do you have in the team?
[41:47.240 -> 41:49.320] What sort of skills do they normally tend to have?
[41:49.320 -> 41:52.560] And is watching and having a proper understanding of racing
[41:52.560 -> 41:55.480] a really big criteria?
[41:55.480 -> 41:57.600] I can take that one, because I probably do
[41:57.600 -> 41:59.520] most of that part of it.
[41:59.520 -> 42:03.440] But yeah, we've built a really good team of people here.
[42:03.440 -> 42:05.600] We've got a real mix of skill sets.
[42:06.760 -> 42:11.040] So we've got, you know, architects,
[42:11.040 -> 42:13.360] so fully qualified architects who look at the building
[42:13.360 -> 42:15.880] and the master plan and how this whole site functions.
[42:15.880 -> 42:17.960] We've then got civil engineers that will look at
[42:17.960 -> 42:21.800] the detailing of the asphalt, the curbs, the drainage,
[42:21.800 -> 42:24.320] all the specifications for the track.
[42:24.320 -> 42:28.240] Dan in particular is focused on track design
[42:28.240 -> 42:32.040] and the simulation and FIA approvals.
[42:32.040 -> 42:36.440] And that's almost same similar background to myself
[42:36.440 -> 42:38.520] as well as more on the motorsport side.
[42:38.520 -> 42:41.600] So in terms of qualifications, say architects, engineers
[42:41.600 -> 42:44.800] and then motorsport engineers and project managers as well.
[42:46.080 -> 42:50.560] I would say that there's a real split now. Initially, obviously, the company has stemmed
[42:50.560 -> 42:54.960] from motorsport and that's my passion and my background and racing and qualifications, but
[42:56.880 -> 43:03.760] we've got a real mix where I would say 50% of the company are real motorsport enthusiasts. We
[43:03.760 -> 43:05.840] watch, you know, we were watching a Formula One,
[43:05.840 -> 43:07.700] the IndyCar at the weekend, you know,
[43:07.700 -> 43:10.880] we're exchanging comments on, you know, racetracks,
[43:10.880 -> 43:14.900] you know, that's sort of 50% of the company.
[43:14.900 -> 43:16.680] I would say the other half are really like
[43:16.680 -> 43:18.180] more technical skillset.
[43:18.180 -> 43:20.260] They're driven by the enjoyment of delivering
[43:20.260 -> 43:23.480] like highly precise engineering projects.
[43:23.480 -> 43:27.240] They all enjoy what they do, I think, and I hope.
[43:27.240 -> 43:28.560] So we've got a real mix now.
[43:28.560 -> 43:30.720] So when we're recruiting, we're looking at,
[43:33.160 -> 43:36.400] do people wanna be working on world-class projects,
[43:36.400 -> 43:38.240] best in class at what they do,
[43:38.240 -> 43:40.320] willing to go the extra mile?
[43:40.320 -> 43:45.000] It's not a regular job where we all pack up and go home
[43:46.080 -> 43:47.320] because it's the end of the day.
[43:47.320 -> 43:49.760] Sometimes the projects require us to be here
[43:49.760 -> 43:53.680] and put in a significant amount of effort to get them done.
[43:53.680 -> 43:55.320] But I think it's highly, highly rewarding.
[43:55.320 -> 43:59.720] So when you see your projects being used
[43:59.720 -> 44:02.360] for Formula One on television or Formula E in Hyderabad,
[44:02.360 -> 44:03.800] it's a real sense of achievement.
[44:03.800 -> 44:06.760] And that's something that you'll take with you for life.
[44:06.760 -> 44:10.120] So it's really cool to be able to do it.
[44:10.120 -> 44:12.200] So yeah, it's a real mixed skill set,
[44:12.200 -> 44:14.440] not necessarily all motorsport fans,
[44:14.440 -> 44:16.600] but most, you know, half of us are, I would say,
[44:16.600 -> 44:19.040] pretty hardcore motorsport fans.
[44:19.040 -> 44:21.080] The rest of the team just did really world-class
[44:21.080 -> 44:23.040] at what they do, whether it's visualization,
[44:23.040 -> 44:24.920] engineering, or architecture.
[44:24.920 -> 44:27.480] So yeah, hopefully that gives you a little insight
[44:27.480 -> 44:30.140] into who we are and what makes us tick.
[44:30.140 -> 44:31.320] Yeah, thank you for having us.
[44:31.320 -> 44:34.920] We'll let you know when we're in India
[44:34.920 -> 44:36.240] and it'd be great to meet you
[44:36.240 -> None] and hope everyone enjoyed the listening. you