Revamp F1’s Driver Academies: Peter Windsor-Inside Line (re-visited)

Happy New Year! But of course, we have to wait a few months before wishing each other a happy new season! 

Announcement - we're planning our first offline meet-up in Mumbai on 15th January. (More details to follow on our socials)

We start 2023 with one of our best episodes - yes, it's a re-visit from when the legendary broadcaster and award-winning journalist Peter Windsor was a guest on our show. 

Tune in to hear Peter narrate stories about the still-born USF1 Team, F1 in America & driver shoot-outs. Are they really a good way to assess driver talent? And why the current driver academies are in a serious need of a revamp. 

(Season 2023, Episode 01)

Follow our host on Twitter: Soumil Arora

Image courtesy: Google / Guardian

**Navigating the Complexities of Formula One: A Conversation with Peter Windsor**

* **Introduction:**

- Peter Windsor, a renowned journalist and former Formula One team principal, joins the Inside Line F1 podcast for an insightful and engaging conversation.
- The discussion delves into various aspects of Formula One, including the controversial practice of driver shootouts, the state of driver academies, and the challenges faced by teams in identifying and nurturing young talent.

* **Driver Shootouts:**

- Peter expresses his disapproval of driver shootouts, viewing them as artificial and not a reliable method for assessing a driver's true potential.
- He recalls Nigel Mansell's experience at Lotus in 1980, where a full day of testing allowed the team to recognize his talent beyond lap times.
- Peter emphasizes the importance of observing drivers' techniques and their ability to connect with the car's feel on the road surface.

* **The State of Driver Academies:**

- Peter criticizes the current state of driver academies, highlighting that most of them are based on drivers paying to participate rather than genuine talent identification.
- He proposes a more equitable system where Formula One takes the lead in identifying and supporting young drivers from various regions around the world.
- Peter stresses the need for a comprehensive program that includes simulation, access to Grand Prix events, and opportunities for drivers to raise funds for their careers.

* **The Challenges of Identifying Young Talent:**

- Peter acknowledges the challenges faced by teams in evaluating young drivers, often relying on results rather than a holistic assessment of their skills and potential.
- He criticizes Red Bull's hit-and-miss approach to driver development, emphasizing the need for a more systematic and data-driven approach.
- Peter reiterates the importance of focusing on a driver's talent and feel for the car, rather than solely relying on financial backing.

* **A Proposal for a Formula One Driver Academy:**

- Peter presents a proposal for Formula One to establish a comprehensive driver academy program, funded by a percentage of teams' income.
- He envisions a system that identifies and nurtures young drivers from various regions, ensuring a diverse and talented pool of drivers for the future.
- Peter believes that such a program would benefit Formula One by attracting new fans, generating revenue, and promoting the sport globally.

* **The Importance of Driver Behavior and Conduct:**

- Peter emphasizes the need for higher standards of behavior and conduct among Formula One drivers, particularly in light of the increasing use of profanity and gratuitous misbehavior.
- He suggests that Liberty Media, by having more control over the next generation of drivers, could instill a culture of professionalism and respect.
- Peter draws comparisons to tennis and golf, where athletes are held to higher standards of conduct, and believes that Formula One should strive for a similar level of professionalism.

* **The Potential of India in Formula One:**

- Peter expresses his disappointment that India, despite its large fan base and investment in a Formula One circuit, has not yet produced a Formula One driver.
- He believes that Formula One should focus on developing young drivers from India and other underrepresented regions, rather than solely relying on races and team ownership.
- Peter highlights the recent MotoGP announcement of a seven-year race in India and suggests that Formula One should consider similar initiatives to tap into the Indian market.

* **The Unfulfilled Promise of USF1:**

- Peter reflects on his involvement in the USF1 project, an ambitious attempt to establish an American Formula One team.
- He explains that the project was driven by three factors: the availability of grid slots, the potential for corporate sponsorship in America, and the opportunity to showcase American drivers in Formula One.
- Peter describes the extensive roadshows and presentations he conducted in Silicon Valley to attract potential investors.
- He attributes the ultimate failure of the project to the lack of support from the existing Formula One teams, who were reluctant to share the financial pie with a new entrant.

* **Conclusion:**

- Peter Windsor's insights and perspectives provide a thought-provoking exploration of the challenges and opportunities facing Formula One in identifying and developing young talent.
- His proposal for a comprehensive Formula One driver academy program and his emphasis on higher standards of conduct offer valuable suggestions for the future of the sport.
- Peter's passion for Formula One and his desire to see it thrive globally shine through in this engaging and informative conversation.

# USF1: A Grand Idea Gone Astray

---

## USF1: A Stillborn F1 Team

- Peter Windsor narrates the story of USF1, a stillborn Formula One team, in this episode.
- USF1 aimed to be an all-American team with American drivers, technology, and a factory based in Europe.

---

## The Road to USF1

- In 2008, USF1 secured funding and backing from investors and potential sponsors.
- Toyota North America and Ferrari expressed interest in providing engines for the team.

---

## The Budget Cap Championship Debacle

- Bernie Ecclestone proposed a new "Budget Cap Championship" with a lower cost structure.
- USF1 was initially included in the plans for this new championship.
- However, the rules and regulations were constantly changing, creating uncertainty and challenges.

---

## The Demise of USF1

- USF1 was given a strict four-month timeframe to create a factory, design a car, and pass crash testing.
- The team faced immense pressure and unrealistic expectations.
- USF1 was eventually accepted into the regular Formula One championship, but the short timeline made success nearly impossible.

---

## Missed Opportunities and Lessons Learned

- Peter Windsor reflects on the missed opportunity for an all-American Formula One team.
- He criticizes the short-sightedness of Formula One's plans to expand the grid.
- The failure of USF1 and other new teams highlights the need for a more sustainable approach to team expansion.

---

## Conclusion

- The story of USF1 serves as a cautionary tale about the challenges of entering Formula One.
- It emphasizes the importance of realistic expectations, long-term planning, and a supportive environment for new teams.

[00:00.000 -> 00:27.440] Hey, folks, welcome to the Insideline F1 podcast for this special episode, which I think can be classified as an episode of Voices of F1
[00:27.520 -> 00:29.040] and also working in F1,
[00:29.120 -> 00:30.720] because the guest we've got today
[00:30.800 -> 00:33.840] has accumulated such a great body of work in both fields
[00:33.920 -> 00:36.920] that it's hard to actually classify him as either a journalist
[00:37.000 -> 00:39.440] or only a team principal or a team manager.
[00:39.520 -> 00:40.760] I don't really know where to begin,
[00:40.840 -> 00:43.080] because I remember back in the mid-2010s
[00:43.160 -> 00:49.280] when I was watching a lot of Formula One content as nearly, what, year old I was like wow Peter Winsor this guy is a great journalist
[00:49.280 -> 00:53.920] I really enjoy listening to him but it's only later that I discovered that he's had such a
[00:53.920 -> 00:58.880] great history in the world of F1 managing the old Williams team that's won many world championships
[00:58.880 -> 01:03.520] and also the most curious and interesting part for me the US F1 team that we're also going to
[01:03.520 -> 01:09.440] discuss today all of that and more is going to be a part of this episode of the Inside Line F1 podcast. But
[01:09.440 -> 01:14.880] let's actually get right into it. Let's welcome Peter Winsor on the show. And Peter, I can't tell
[01:14.880 -> 01:19.440] you how long I've waited to have this conversation with you, because we've been dreaming about having
[01:19.440 -> 01:24.640] you on the show for a long, long time. But finally, we're here with you. Firstly, how are you doing?
[01:24.640 -> 01:25.400] And what's
[01:25.400 -> 01:27.000] the mood been like recently?
[01:27.000 -> 01:27.720] Well, I'm great.
[01:27.720 -> 01:30.080] I'm wearing my Force India cap, my favorite cap.
[01:30.080 -> 01:32.760] So life couldn't be better.
[01:32.760 -> 01:34.600] I was always a fan of that team, actually,
[01:34.600 -> 01:36.520] and know a lot of the guys who are still there.
[01:36.520 -> 01:41.040] And yeah, I really miss Force India,
[01:41.040 -> 01:42.200] is the first thing I'd say.
[01:42.200 -> 01:43.120] But I'm great.
[01:43.120 -> 01:44.360] Lots going on at the moment.
[01:44.360 -> 01:50.400] I don't know if you know, but I'm the senior archivist for the upcoming Formula One Global
[01:50.400 -> 01:56.560] Exhibition, which is a nine-year deal and it's liberty-backed and it's about the history of
[01:56.560 -> 02:03.040] Formula One past, present and future. Huge 25,000 square foot global exhibition that I'm sure will
[02:03.040 -> 02:06.000] find its way to India, opening in Madrid next
[02:06.000 -> 02:12.080] March. And so we're absolutely flat out at the moment with that. And this morning, my head is
[02:12.080 -> 02:17.040] full of Ron Dennis, Frank Williams, Charlie Crichton Stewart, Mansur Oje, we've been going through all
[02:17.040 -> 02:23.600] the detail of that. And yeah, so many, and I'm interviewing Zach Brown, eight o'clock on Monday
[02:23.600 -> 02:25.760] morning for this. I've done 83
[02:25.760 -> 02:30.800] interviews for this global exhibition, so it's a big thing. And on top of that, yeah, YouTube channel
[02:30.800 -> 02:36.880] and Twitch, and I'm just about to set off to Singapore working for Rolex out there at the
[02:36.880 -> 02:42.160] Grand Prix. So yeah, lots going on, busy. And my son, who's only 10, is a very good golfer, and I'm
[02:42.160 -> 02:47.000] caddying for him, and I kind I try to coach him sometimes as well.
[02:47.000 -> 02:48.440] That seems to be a lot going on.
[02:48.440 -> 02:52.280] I swear they couldn't have chosen a better person for the archives, because when watching
[02:52.280 -> 02:57.000] your live streams on YouTube recently, I was just fascinated with the amount of, not just
[02:57.000 -> 02:59.800] the amount, but also the quality of the pictures you've got in your archive.
[02:59.800 -> 03:01.820] So that's quite something to go along.
[03:01.820 -> 03:04.960] But something from the archive is actually coming back again this year.
[03:04.960 -> 03:06.880] It's driver shootouts with Alpine.
[03:06.880 -> 03:09.280] Now, Alpine are in this little muddle
[03:09.280 -> 03:11.720] where they don't know who to actually pick for the driver position.
[03:11.720 -> 03:13.240] And now they've come back for it.
[03:13.240 -> 03:14.960] So I want to know your thoughts on it.
[03:14.960 -> 03:16.680] Is it like a fair way to pick drivers?
[03:16.680 -> 03:19.760] And the reason why I want to specifically ask this question to you
[03:19.760 -> 03:22.280] is because your great mate, Nigel Mansell,
[03:22.280 -> 03:24.400] also got his foot in the door in Formula One
[03:24.400 -> 03:26.160] through a shootout as well back in the day.
[03:26.160 -> 03:30.760] So just what is that whole system like all about?
[03:30.760 -> 03:35.180] Well I'm not a fan of shootouts I have to say because I think they can be quite artificial
[03:35.180 -> 03:39.800] and what you're looking for with the driver isn't necessarily what might come to the service
[03:39.800 -> 03:41.240] in a shootout.
[03:41.240 -> 03:46.000] I don't think Nigel made it because of, I think you're referring to
[03:46.000 -> 03:51.240] back end of 79 when five drivers tested the Lotus 79 at Ricard. I don't think it
[03:51.240 -> 03:56.440] was that. I mean, that was a good moment for Nigel, perhaps, to feel a Formula One
[03:56.440 -> 04:01.480] car and what it was all about. But it was a very short run and it didn't have much
[04:01.480 -> 04:05.520] bearing on what they were going to do with that seat next year.
[04:11.760 -> 04:19.920] And if you look at just to continue the Nigel thing, what made Nigel really was the test the following year at Silverstone mid-year 1980 where Mario and Elio were driving and I think Mario had
[04:19.920 -> 04:24.560] to go back early and they gave Nigel Mario's car for the last day. So he did a full day at
[04:23.680 -> 04:30.520] to go back early and they gave Nigel Mario's car for the last day. So he did a full day at Silverstone in the Lotus 81 with Nigel Stroud as his race engineer.
[04:30.760 -> 04:35.360] And it's quite a funny story really, because they were a bit nervous about how Nigel would go,
[04:35.360 -> 04:39.920] but because he was under contract to Lotus at the time as a van driver,
[04:39.920 -> 04:42.360] there's a contract I'd set up, that's how I got him in the door.
[04:42.840 -> 04:44.000] But they thought they'd give him a run.
[04:44.360 -> 04:46.640] And it was all about, we're not going to give you any lap times, Nigel.
[04:46.640 -> 04:47.920] You're not required to go quickly.
[04:47.920 -> 04:49.040] We just want to get some miles.
[04:49.040 -> 04:50.240] Just want to test this or that.
[04:50.240 -> 04:53.360] Don't think about going out and setting the world on fire.
[04:53.920 -> 04:58.000] And so it was a good thing because Nigel went out in the car, had no idea what lap times
[04:58.000 -> 04:58.560] he was doing.
[04:58.560 -> 05:03.440] And all he could do was drive to the feel of the car on the surface of the road.
[05:03.440 -> 05:06.560] And what he felt was the right balance,
[05:06.560 -> 05:08.400] and not balance in terms of handling,
[05:08.400 -> 05:11.500] balance in terms of feeling the road
[05:11.500 -> 05:13.160] and also leaving a bit of margin,
[05:13.160 -> 05:16.240] but equally driving the car as it wanted to be driven.
[05:16.240 -> 05:17.080] And he did that.
[05:17.080 -> 05:19.920] And when he came back into the pits after a five lap run,
[05:19.920 -> 05:24.840] everybody looked at him with massive flame in their eyes,
[05:24.840 -> 05:28.320] incredibly angry that he'd been out there going so quickly.
[05:28.320 -> 05:30.760] I mean, he was within a couple of tenths of Mario
[05:30.760 -> 05:32.040] in that first run.
[05:32.040 -> 05:34.040] And from Nigel's point of view, he was just driving,
[05:34.040 -> 05:37.080] as I say, in harmony with the car on the surface of the road.
[05:37.080 -> 05:39.040] And I think that was the first time anybody at Lotus
[05:39.040 -> 05:40.360] realized that he had all this talent.
[05:40.360 -> 05:43.800] And from my point of view, I noticed Nigel,
[05:43.800 -> 05:49.800] very good example, we'll continue with Nigel, in a Formula 3 race at Thruxton in 78, watching him out the
[05:49.800 -> 05:52.200] back on a bumpy, very fast corner.
[05:52.200 -> 05:56.360] And just the way he was going over the bumps, what he was doing with the throttle,
[05:56.360 -> 06:00.200] how he was using the steering, his turn into the chicane, turning in on the brakes
[06:00.200 -> 06:04.360] really well. Those are the things that you should be watching, I think, anybody
[06:04.360 -> 06:05.360] should be watching.
[06:09.200 -> 06:12.720] And I think if a team decides to do a shootout, they're kind of admitting defeat and saying, well, we've got no idea who's quick and who's slow. We don't really understand the art of
[06:12.720 -> 06:16.480] driving. We'll just put them all in a car and see who's quickest at the end. It's a bit pathetic,
[06:16.480 -> 06:20.960] really. And I think it's all to do with the teams not really spending enough time out on the circuit
[06:20.960 -> 06:24.800] watching drivers and trying to understand the differences between them. The difference,
[06:24.800 -> 06:28.560] for example, between Charles Leclerc and Carlos Sainz is pretty massive in
[06:28.560 -> 06:35.120] terms of their techniques. But if you spoke to a lot of so-called experts in the pit lane,
[06:35.120 -> 06:39.280] most of them would probably say, oh, well, they're both quick. Carlos takes more risks or whatever
[06:39.280 -> 06:46.360] they would say, some rather bland, meaningless answer. So I'm not a fan of shootouts.
[06:46.360 -> 06:47.440] I think it's admitting defeat,
[06:47.440 -> 06:49.760] and I don't think it achieves much.
[06:49.760 -> 06:52.000] And usually they'll end up choosing the wrong driver.
[06:52.000 -> 06:54.200] Is it kind of relevant that P and other team
[06:54.200 -> 06:55.040] carrying on the shootout,
[06:55.040 -> 06:56.320] considering how clueless they've been
[06:56.320 -> 06:58.160] with their drivers lately?
[06:58.160 -> 06:59.320] I don't think they've been clueless at all.
[06:59.320 -> 07:00.840] I think they actually did a very good job
[07:00.840 -> 07:02.400] with Oscar Piastri,
[07:02.400 -> 07:04.120] because he is a driver of enormous talent.
[07:04.120 -> 07:06.560] And they found him and
[07:06.560 -> 07:10.880] identified that very early on and gave him a big opportunity. I don't think they've been
[07:10.880 -> 07:16.240] clueless at all. I think they've been possibly the legal department's been a bit slack and a bit lax.
[07:16.240 -> 07:20.800] But then you would assume that if you're Alpine, I would. I would assume that somebody like Oscar
[07:20.800 -> 07:30.080] Piastri, if he's managed by Mark Webber, would have been educated well enough to know that loyalty and sincerity are more important than looking for loopholes and sliming
[07:30.080 -> 07:37.200] out when you want to get out of a deal. And Mark Webber, I think, always says he's very close to
[07:37.200 -> 07:42.080] Jackie Stewart and he would know better than anybody that Jackie Stewart drove for Ken Tyrell
[07:42.080 -> 07:45.840] without a single written bit of paper between them ever. And they won three world championships.
[07:45.840 -> 07:48.640] So for Alpine to put all that money and effort
[07:48.640 -> 07:52.560] into Oscar Piastri, all that testing he's done this year
[07:52.560 -> 07:54.960] is pure indication of what they want to do with him.
[07:54.960 -> 07:57.120] And they announced him as their lead driver anyway.
[07:57.120 -> 08:00.840] So there was no doubt at all about Alpine's intentions.
[08:00.840 -> 08:04.280] And he's gone away because at the time
[08:04.280 -> 08:07.280] McLaren were sort of on the table, his only real option
[08:07.280 -> 08:09.320] seemed to be in a Williams for a year.
[08:09.320 -> 08:13.640] And being in a Williams didn't exactly hurt George Russell, for example, or Nigel Mansell
[08:13.640 -> 08:15.720] or Alan Jones or a few others.
[08:15.720 -> 08:20.040] So yeah, I'm not impressed with that behavior of Piastri's.
[08:20.040 -> 08:23.280] And I think, I don't think it's correct to call Alpine clueless.
[08:23.280 -> 08:25.280] I think more than most, they're out there putting
[08:26.160 -> 08:29.600] quite a lot of effort into young drivers, Jack Doohan being a very good example.
[08:29.600 -> 08:34.080] Actually, on the subject of that, I want to know your take on how this actually trickles down into
[08:34.080 -> 08:38.720] the junior Formula Series, because now a team like Alpine is investing a ton of money and bringing
[08:38.720 -> 08:44.320] up quite a few drivers. Obviously, Piaget has fallen through the net and we know exactly how
[08:44.320 -> 08:45.080] that's happened.
[08:45.080 -> 08:49.680] But is that kind of a big demotivator for any team in that case to kind of not put money
[08:49.680 -> 08:50.680] on drivers?
[08:50.680 -> 08:54.320] Because now they've invested tons of money, they no longer have to finish product, it's
[08:54.320 -> 08:55.760] suddenly gone to direct rival.
[08:55.760 -> 08:57.880] Will that change much of the ecosystem?
[08:57.880 -> 09:00.760] Because I think Saffner was pretty critical of that element.
[09:00.760 -> 09:10.320] Yeah, I think the problem with generalizing like that is that every team's driver academy is completely different and most of them are based on drivers paying to be there
[09:10.320 -> 09:13.840] in the first place. So they're not really driver academies in the way that you and I would like
[09:13.840 -> 09:18.240] them to be, i.e. here's a guy with enormous talent, let's give him an opportunity and help
[09:18.240 -> 09:23.920] him raise money for Formula 2 and Formula 3 and Formula 1. They're not like that. They're basically
[09:23.920 -> 09:25.520] to do with scouts who go to car
[09:25.520 -> 09:29.040] race meetings around the world, they look for the drivers with the biggest motorhomes, in other words
[09:29.040 -> 09:33.920] the wealthiest dads, and then having sorted through that group, they then look for the wealthy drivers
[09:33.920 -> 09:38.880] who've got the most talent in that order and then they might be offered a place in the seat. That's
[09:38.880 -> 09:43.520] certainly the case for most of them and probably the case with Alpine as well. I just think in
[09:43.520 -> 09:48.320] Piastri's case, there was a guy that they got behind with talent. And I think it's the same with Theo
[09:48.320 -> 09:53.360] Pochere with Sauber. I think that they're doing quite a good job with him because he's not a guy
[09:53.360 -> 09:57.680] with a massive amount of money, but he's got a massive amount of talent. And I think also,
[09:57.680 -> 10:01.760] to repeat the point, I think they're doing that with Jack Doern, who again, needs quite a lot of
[10:01.760 -> 10:08.480] support. So those teams are doing quite a good job.
[10:08.480 -> 10:10.760] I would say Red Bull are the most hit and miss of the lot.
[10:10.760 -> 10:14.240] If you think of the number of drivers they've signed and then got rid of without really
[10:14.240 -> 10:19.600] running them and doing whatever is appropriate, 90% of the money and time they wasted could
[10:19.600 -> 10:22.680] have been saved if they'd done a better job with the evaluation of the young drivers in
[10:22.680 -> 10:28.720] the first place, which they still haven't improved. They're still doing it based on results rather than results and the
[10:28.720 -> 10:33.680] feel of the handshake rather than actually how the guy drives the car. So Red Bull are very hit
[10:33.680 -> 10:37.440] and miss, but they throw so much time and effort and money at it. They're the one team that does
[10:37.440 -> 10:42.160] spend money at it that inevitably they're going to have some bull's eyes from time to time.
[10:42.160 -> 10:46.080] But a fairly typical deal will be,
[10:46.080 -> 10:47.880] and I better not mention any of the academies
[10:47.880 -> 10:49.800] here because probably not appropriate,
[10:49.800 -> 10:53.280] but a fairly typical deal will be to say to the father
[10:53.280 -> 10:56.200] of a promising looking Formula 3 driver who perhaps has
[10:56.200 -> 10:59.240] got 2 thirds of the budget, we'd like
[10:59.240 -> 11:00.880] you to run in our colors next year.
[11:00.880 -> 11:03.960] We'll give you some simulation at the factory.
[11:03.960 -> 11:07.280] We'll invite you to a couple of Grand Prix, you can be in photo
[11:07.280 -> 11:11.360] sessions with the drivers, helmet, overalls and car will be
[11:11.360 -> 11:14.480] in our colors. And then they having done that deal, the
[11:14.480 -> 11:16.720] father thinks, oh, wow, that's great. My son's, you know,
[11:16.720 -> 11:21.800] Formula One Academy driver. And, but then they say, well, by the
[11:21.800 -> 11:25.200] way, we want you to be with either Prima, ART, or Dams,
[11:25.200 -> 11:28.640] or whatever it is, whatever category, but obviously one of the top ones, which is the
[11:28.640 -> 11:29.640] most expensive.
[11:29.640 -> 11:32.360] So, the father thinks, oh, well, I can find the extra money.
[11:32.360 -> 11:33.360] Yeah, I'll do that.
[11:33.360 -> 11:36.680] I'm only paying half of it now, but he's still paying a fortune.
[11:36.680 -> 11:40.800] And then they go to the team and they say, we've just introduced you a driver.
[11:40.800 -> 11:45.780] So, we want a percentage on the money that we're bringing to the team.
[11:45.780 -> 11:51.640] They get at least 20%, 30% of the money that they're spending back from the team as a commission
[11:51.640 -> 11:52.640] anyway.
[11:52.640 -> 11:57.280] Then the minute there's a delay in any of the payments, which may well happen, if they
[11:57.280 -> 12:00.720] want, they just fire the driver immediately, which is why you see quite a lot of red bull
[12:00.720 -> 12:01.720] drivers in tears.
[12:01.720 -> 12:05.760] It's a very nasty, tough, not very nice business,
[12:05.760 -> 12:11.280] that whole… It's not run very well. I'm saying all that because I've been campaigning for five
[12:11.280 -> 12:16.480] years now that we should have a much better system. Formula 1 should have a much better system of
[12:17.120 -> 12:24.000] identifying young drivers for the future and doing that in an equitable way from regions around the
[12:24.000 -> 12:27.920] world rather than letting the teams do all this business of focusing on
[12:27.920 -> 12:30.800] which car driver's got the wealthiest father.
[12:30.800 -> 12:33.800] And I'm saying that because obviously we have an Indian audience,
[12:33.800 -> 12:39.440] and I feel very strongly that Formula One obliged India
[12:39.440 -> 12:43.040] to spend a lot of money to have a circuit for Formula One,
[12:43.040 -> 12:46.320] and did a few races and then left.
[12:46.320 -> 12:52.900] I think it's a great shame and I think we should by now have at least two if not three
[12:52.900 -> 12:55.080] Indian drivers in Formula One.
[12:55.080 -> 13:08.660] I did a proposal to Liberty, as I said, about five years ago now, to say that it's not difficult to pinpoint young Carters in countries like India, say the best five,
[13:08.660 -> 13:12.900] say bring them to Europe, in the Indian region,
[13:12.900 -> 13:16.800] create a sort of Netflix virtual reality,
[13:18.860 -> 13:20.180] which driver's gonna make it,
[13:20.180 -> 13:22.820] really make it an interesting TV show,
[13:22.820 -> 13:25.760] and not virtual reality, reality TVs.
[13:27.120 -> 13:32.480] Follow these three, five drivers from Formula 4 up into Formula 1.
[13:32.480 -> 13:35.280] But the money should be coming from Formula 1.
[13:35.280 -> 13:37.760] It should be percentages taken out of all the teams
[13:39.440 -> 13:44.240] throughout the year on their income in order to make sure that in four or five years' time,
[13:44.240 -> 13:48.240] we've got a driver from China, we've got a driver from the Middle East, we've got a driver from India,
[13:48.240 -> 13:50.040] we've got two American drivers.
[13:50.040 -> 13:52.760] That's what Formula 1 needs.
[13:52.760 -> 13:54.080] It's not difficult to do that.
[13:54.080 -> 13:58.380] It's very easy to do that, actually, and much easier than trying to get a circuit built
[13:58.380 -> 14:02.920] in a country and raising the money for that and then continually raising the money to
[14:02.920 -> 14:08.680] put on the Grand Prix every year, for example, or trying to get a team from a country to come over and be
[14:08.680 -> 14:10.640] an Indian team or an American team.
[14:10.640 -> 14:12.640] That's incredibly complicated as well.
[14:12.640 -> 14:15.240] But actually to do a driver program is quite simple.
[14:15.240 -> 14:19.280] When I made this proposal to Liberty, they said, this is really interesting.
[14:19.280 -> 14:20.280] This is great.
[14:20.280 -> 14:22.360] This is what we should be doing, but it's really complicated, so we're not going to
[14:22.360 -> 14:23.360] do it.
[14:23.360 -> 14:24.360] That's it.
[14:24.360 -> 14:25.440] That's as far as I got.
[14:25.440 -> 14:29.920] And I find it incredibly annoying that Formula One is still down this old antiquated path
[14:29.920 -> 14:36.080] of the teams focusing on the drivers who've got the money and then trying to make them
[14:36.080 -> 14:41.220] good racing drivers, as distinct from trying to find the good racing drivers and using
[14:41.220 -> 14:46.600] their own resources, not necessarily their own money, but their marketing departments and all the other things
[14:46.600 -> 14:48.600] that young drivers can benefit from
[14:48.600 -> 14:51.600] to help them raise their own money for Formula 3 and Formula 2.
[14:51.600 -> 14:54.600] Some of the teams are starting to do that, and they do it reasonably well,
[14:54.600 -> 14:56.600] but generally speaking, that doesn't happen.
[14:56.600 -> 14:59.600] And if you're in the Ferrari Young Driver Academy,
[14:59.600 -> 15:02.600] it's very difficult to ring up a computer company
[15:02.600 -> 15:06.180] and say, I'm in the Ferrari Young Driver Academy,
[15:06.180 -> 15:09.160] I'd love to meet the CEO of this company
[15:09.160 -> 15:12.740] and I can introduce you to all the key players at Ferrari
[15:12.740 -> 15:15.080] and you can have lunch with Charles Leclerc,
[15:15.080 -> 15:16.560] would you like to do this?
[15:16.560 -> 15:18.000] He can't do that, he's not allowed to do that,
[15:18.000 -> 15:19.440] he's not allowed to touch any of the assets
[15:19.440 -> 15:20.280] of the Formula One team,
[15:20.280 -> 15:21.680] and I think that's missing the point really
[15:21.680 -> 15:29.360] because what the young guys need is all of those tools and those are what generate the money.
[15:29.360 -> 15:35.240] So I'd love to see us going back to a proper, well going to, we've never had a proper young
[15:35.240 -> 15:38.120] driver program that makes sense globally.
[15:38.120 -> 15:44.040] South Africa, Latin America, we need drivers from these countries in Formula 1.
[15:44.040 -> 15:45.960] We don't necessarily need races in these countries.
[15:45.960 -> 15:48.380] We don't necessarily need more teams.
[15:48.380 -> 15:49.380] We need the drivers.
[15:49.380 -> 15:51.540] And at the moment it's not happening.
[15:51.540 -> 15:53.040] You know, that is fantastic.
[15:53.040 -> 15:57.700] It's like been a blockbuster opening few minutes already, Peter.
[15:57.700 -> 16:02.360] And you know, what you mentioned is so interesting that Formula One should have its own driver
[16:02.360 -> 16:03.360] academies.
[16:03.360 -> 16:05.120] And I had the responsibility
[16:05.120 -> 16:12.000] of running the driver academy at Force India of which Jehan Daruwala is. Yeah, thank you. He's a
[16:12.000 -> 16:18.400] by-product and you know, the academy after a point stalled because the team didn't just have the
[16:18.400 -> 16:25.120] funding to push the driver. So, you know, if Formula One comes and does it, like you said, out of every team's
[16:25.120 -> 16:31.280] percentage of budgets and so on, then at least we know it's not going to be dependent on a team
[16:31.280 -> 16:39.200] owner or his or her finances. And you won't get the F2 champion not racing, because by definition,
[16:39.840 -> 16:45.840] the best drivers are always going to have the budgets they necessarily need to progress up the ladder.
[16:45.840 -> 16:49.440] That's how the American system works with Road to Indy.
[16:49.440 -> 16:51.360] And Formula One doesn't have that.
[16:51.360 -> 16:54.200] It's ludicrous that it doesn't have that, because it's much more international than
[16:54.200 -> 16:55.540] IndyCar.
[16:55.540 -> 17:01.600] So if any category of racing in the world should have a properly organized young driver
[17:01.600 -> 17:07.440] academy program, a generalized program, an umbrella program embracing all of the teams,
[17:07.440 -> 17:08.440] it's Formula One.
[17:08.440 -> 17:16.480] And in that way, Formula One could then introduce other things into the way drivers are molded,
[17:16.480 -> 17:19.440] which will never happen if you just leave it to the teams.
[17:19.440 -> 17:24.120] And I'm thinking, for example, another thing that I've often beaten the drum about is over
[17:24.120 -> 17:26.720] the winter when Formula One eventually grinds to a halt
[17:26.720 -> 17:30.880] and not much happens before the first race of the new season
[17:30.880 -> 17:35.160] is a time when the drivers actually should be out there
[17:35.160 -> 17:37.840] touring the world and doing charity kart racing
[17:37.840 -> 17:40.240] and big chat shows in America
[17:40.240 -> 17:43.280] and beating the drum about Formula One,
[17:43.280 -> 17:44.440] particularly in the regions
[17:44.440 -> 17:45.360] where they're growing in Formula One, particularly in the regions where
[17:45.360 -> 17:46.600] they're growing in Formula One.
[17:46.600 -> 17:49.120] And we need to get more enthusiasm and more spectators.
[17:49.120 -> 17:52.480] And we need to have Charles Leclerc,
[17:52.480 -> 17:54.040] Carlos Sainz and Max Verstappen
[17:54.040 -> 17:56.180] doing a three week tour of the United States
[17:56.180 -> 17:59.600] in mid-December, early January,
[17:59.600 -> 18:01.260] doing all the big chat shows,
[18:01.260 -> 18:03.720] promoting the big three Formula One races in America
[18:03.720 -> 18:04.560] the following year.
[18:04.560 -> 18:05.200] That doesn't happen because the teams are in control of the drivers. And so the drivers say Formula One races in America the following year.
[18:05.200 -> 18:07.840] That doesn't happen because the teams are in control of the drivers and so the drivers
[18:07.840 -> 18:09.040] say, well, I'm never going to do that.
[18:09.040 -> 18:10.360] The teams say, oh, okay.
[18:10.360 -> 18:11.400] And that's that.
[18:11.400 -> 18:16.360] And similarly, we're just on the surface of it now, but there's a lot of swearing in Formula
[18:16.360 -> 18:20.920] One now and there's quite a lot of gratuitous misbehavior.
[18:20.920 -> 18:26.400] Again, if Liberty had more control of the next generation of drivers because they're
[18:26.400 -> 18:32.000] the ones actually producing them, there'd be a much better, higher standard of behavior,
[18:32.000 -> 18:33.000] I think.
[18:33.000 -> 18:36.720] Then you're getting into the sort of areas of tennis and golf where there is a much higher
[18:36.720 -> 18:37.720] standard of behavior.
[18:37.720 -> 18:41.640] Yeah, there are a lot of reasons to do it.
[18:41.640 -> 18:44.440] The only reason not to do it might be the one they said is too complicated.
[18:44.440 -> 18:46.000] But too complicated compared with what?
[18:46.000 -> 18:52.000] It's not too complicated compared with putting on a race or building a team.
[18:52.000 -> 18:55.000] So, yeah, that's my thinking.
[18:55.000 -> 19:00.000] And I say, you know, Force India, I think, should be applauded for the job they did
[19:00.000 -> 19:02.000] in trying to get young drivers out there.
[19:02.000 -> 19:10.400] And we have Jehan Darouba, and I really hope he makes Formula One because he's got the talent to do it. And it's a shame that none of the other teams,
[19:10.400 -> 19:16.400] or Formula One at the time, got into that and said to Vijay Malia, you're doing a great job
[19:16.400 -> 19:20.720] with these Indian drivers, we need India in Formula One, we need Indian drivers in Formula
[19:20.720 -> 19:29.920] One, we need to come and help you with this. It was just left as a sort of force India program and no wonder it eventually ran out of steam because a young driver program is going
[19:29.920 -> 19:36.240] to be the first thing you you cull if the team is on the edge financially. And that's exactly what
[19:36.240 -> 19:46.800] happened. And there's this whole push to get Formula One and America together and then also keep the Chinese race with Zhou
[19:46.800 -> 19:54.240] Guan Yu and keep China also on the calendar and so on. And I keep wondering when is Formula One
[19:54.240 -> 20:00.320] sort of going to shift the focus to India as well, because by their own reports, there are 31 million
[20:00.320 -> 20:05.240] fans in the country, and that's pretty sizable in itself. And you know, what you
[20:05.240 -> 20:09.040] said is very interesting because MotoGP has just announced that it's going to go to India
[20:09.040 -> 20:13.280] for seven years. They're going to be racing at the same circuit where Formula One raced
[20:13.280 -> 20:19.200] and so on. So the facilities are there, the interest and the intent is there. It's just
[20:19.200 -> 20:26.720] a matter of whether Formula One wants to focus on that market? And then would they want to use Jehan Daruwala to
[20:26.720 -> 20:31.280] also see if he can be one of the sort of the drivers for that market?
[20:31.280 -> 20:36.080] Yeah. And as I keep saying, I mean, if you leave it to the teams, it'll never happen,
[20:36.080 -> 20:42.240] because the teams are only thinking of how they're going to pay the wage bill next month for all the
[20:42.240 -> 20:46.240] thousand people they employ, the next race, the next development,
[20:46.240 -> 20:48.280] the next compromise that has to be made
[20:48.280 -> 20:50.960] between the cost cap and finding a 10th of a second
[20:50.960 -> 20:52.060] a lap in the car.
[20:52.060 -> 20:55.140] All those things are of critical importance to a team.
[20:55.140 -> 20:58.200] And so this broad brush, 30,000 foot view
[20:58.200 -> 21:01.640] of what is healthy for the sport in the future
[21:01.640 -> 21:04.400] is something that they never get around to thinking about
[21:04.400 -> 21:08.520] because most Formula One people like to never think more than about three months in advance
[21:08.520 -> 21:09.520] ever.
[21:09.520 -> 21:13.640] Ron Dennis was different, Bernie was different, they could think five years in advance but
[21:13.640 -> 21:16.960] virtually everybody else I've ever known in Formula One rarely thinks more than about
[21:16.960 -> 21:17.960] three months ahead.
[21:17.960 -> 21:24.360] Actually on that subject of teams not thinking ahead and teams moving to other options, let's
[21:24.360 -> 21:27.000] say like trying to become a national team of sorts
[21:27.080 -> 21:29.160] in a way to sort of milk an interesting market.
[21:29.240 -> 21:31.460] I want to touch upon the whole USGP effort
[21:31.540 -> 21:34.000] that you were so critically involved in back in the day.
[21:34.080 -> 21:38.300] Because I remember we had Bob Varsha on the podcast last year,
[21:38.380 -> 21:41.080] and he was talking about how this would and could have been
[21:41.160 -> 21:43.620] a great effort from Formula One and you guys
[21:43.700 -> 21:45.560] to kind of monetize the American market
[21:45.560 -> 21:47.760] in a way it had never been done before.
[21:47.760 -> 21:49.960] At that point of time, obviously things have changed
[21:49.960 -> 21:51.960] and Liberty Media have taken a big step forward,
[21:51.960 -> 21:54.560] but you being at the very core of it, Peter,
[21:54.560 -> 21:56.520] I just want to know your perspective on
[21:56.520 -> 21:57.780] just what really happened over there,
[21:57.780 -> 22:00.280] because the videos of the team are still online.
[22:00.280 -> 22:02.200] You can still see the crash test videos
[22:02.200 -> 22:05.760] and whatnot at the facility and everything on the internet.
[22:05.760 -> 22:08.240] And there was a great deal of hope from everyone
[22:08.240 -> 22:10.700] that, okay, this might just end up happening.
[22:10.700 -> 22:12.740] If I'm not wrong, and if the rumors are correct,
[22:12.740 -> 22:14.440] you also had drivers signed on.
[22:14.440 -> 22:17.700] So just where did it all fall through at the end?
[22:17.700 -> 22:19.540] Was it just a lack of time?
[22:19.540 -> 22:20.500] No, no, it wasn't.
[22:20.500 -> 22:23.640] Well, it was a lack of time, but not from our side.
[22:23.640 -> 22:25.320] The whole genesis of the team was that there were, No, it wasn't. Well, it was a lack of time, but not from our side.
[22:25.320 -> 22:30.200] The whole genesis of the team was that there were, as there are today, certainly places
[22:30.200 -> 22:32.040] on the grid for new teams.
[22:32.040 -> 22:34.180] We only have 20 cars, 10 teams.
[22:34.180 -> 22:37.600] We should have 13 teams and 26 cars.
[22:37.600 -> 22:41.960] But everyone at that point was starting to get a bit scared off, as they are today, about
[22:41.960 -> 22:50.660] doing a team because of the costs. Costs are much more now than then because all of the teams, the current teams, are much
[22:50.660 -> 22:55.840] wealthier than they were then and even more reluctant to make the slice that they have
[22:55.840 -> 23:00.520] of the cake smaller, which is inevitably what would happen if more teams came into Formula
[23:00.520 -> 23:01.520] 1.
[23:01.520 -> 23:05.600] So there's much more resistance now to having new teams coming in than ever before
[23:05.600 -> 23:07.480] because none of the incumbents want that to happen.
[23:07.480 -> 23:09.200] All they want is an Audi saying,
[23:09.200 -> 23:10.880] here's a free engine or a Porsche saying,
[23:10.880 -> 23:11.720] here's a free engine.
[23:11.720 -> 23:13.560] What they don't want is Audi coming in with a team
[23:13.560 -> 23:15.500] because it means they're gonna have less money.
[23:15.500 -> 23:16.340] So that's the first point.
[23:16.340 -> 23:19.800] When we were doing it, there were, as I say,
[23:19.800 -> 23:20.720] three grid places.
[23:20.720 -> 23:23.360] Nobody was making any effort at all to take them up.
[23:23.360 -> 23:28.120] David Richards had applied for a grid slot. And his concept
[23:28.120 -> 23:32.080] was to run McLaren's customer McLaren's and that was knocked
[23:32.080 -> 23:33.960] on the head and everybody thought, Oh, well, it's not
[23:33.960 -> 23:37.800] going to happen. No problem. So Ken Anderson, who I knew very
[23:37.800 -> 23:41.000] well, very good guy, very technical guy, I knew from
[23:41.000 -> 23:44.280] Penske dampers when I was at Williams, we had gone back to
[23:44.280 -> 23:47.360] America, at least 10 15 years before I,
[23:47.360 -> 23:49.000] and well, it was before I went there.
[23:49.000 -> 23:51.920] And we kept in touch and he said, you know,
[23:51.920 -> 23:53.760] you wouldn't believe one day he said to me, Peter,
[23:53.760 -> 23:58.760] how the technology base from say Charlotte down to Daytona
[23:58.800 -> 24:01.640] has grown over the last 10 years because of NASCAR.
[24:01.640 -> 24:04.840] People write NASCAR off as being pretty basic,
[24:04.840 -> 24:05.360] but he said there's some
[24:05.360 -> 24:15.280] incredible carbon shops, incredible machine shops, amazing fabrication as well. And of course,
[24:15.280 -> 24:20.000] he'd just finished work on building the full-scale wind tunnel for Gene Haas,
[24:20.000 -> 24:24.640] the windshear tunnel. So obviously, wind tunnel and aerodynamically, there was a lot there as well.
[24:25.200 -> 24:29.760] And then we looked at the sums of actually building a Formula One car in the United States
[24:29.760 -> 24:39.360] using all of that technology base on the East Coast there. And being as luxurious as we could
[24:39.360 -> 24:44.720] possibly be, the budget still came out at about 50% less than we would spend if we did a car in
[24:46.040 -> 24:48.960] England or France or Italy or Germany or Switzerland or anywhere else.
[24:48.960 -> 24:51.000] So we thought, well, that's an interesting point.
[24:51.000 -> 24:53.080] Secondly, America is a very big country.
[24:53.080 -> 24:56.560] Nobody's ever done a very good job of harnessing corporate America into Formula One.
[24:56.560 -> 25:01.640] There's a lot of money in NASCAR, but maybe an American Formula One team might attract
[25:01.640 -> 25:06.160] quite a lot of corporate interest. So there were two things
[25:06.160 -> 25:09.680] that were interesting. And then thirdly, I haven't been an American driver for a long time,
[25:10.320 -> 25:14.080] exclude Scott Speed, hasn't been one really since, I don't know, was it Peter Ebsen?
[25:15.520 -> 25:18.880] And so we thought, well, there's another thing, American drivers in Formula One,
[25:18.880 -> 25:22.480] no bad thing at all. Great heritage the United States has with Formula One. So there were three
[25:22.480 -> 25:31.200] good reasons to do it. And so we very quietly, with a plan of walking in year one, maybe getting into a gentle trot in year two,
[25:31.200 -> 25:35.680] and maybe a canter in year three, and maybe a bit of a gallop in year four, the normal way,
[25:37.120 -> 25:41.520] we went out onto the, actually we went to the west coast, to Silicon Valley, which we felt was
[25:41.520 -> 25:46.260] a rather, was an interesting new area for potential money.
[25:46.260 -> 25:49.540] We did a series of roadshows out there in which I presented the concept of doing an
[25:49.540 -> 25:51.540] American F1 team, USF1.
[25:51.540 -> 25:56.940] It was about Roadshow 3 when we started to hit gold nuggets and people were saying, this
[25:56.940 -> 25:58.840] is just amazing, we'd love to be a part of this.
[25:58.840 -> 26:09.920] We started to get a lot of backing and a lot of good people. At the time, our budget was approximately in the region of $30 to
[26:09.920 -> 26:16.800] $50 million a year because the cost of running the car was so cheap, building the car. We were
[26:16.800 -> 26:31.000] going to run it from Europe, obviously, a race operation in Europe. We so we did it and we actually agreed a deal with an investor, a couple of good investors.
[26:31.000 -> 26:36.480] And the next thing I knew, Max Mosley was on the phone saying, Peter, this is the most
[26:36.480 -> 26:39.000] amazing thing we've had in Formula One for a long time.
[26:39.000 -> 26:40.000] Congratulations.
[26:40.000 -> 26:41.000] Absolutely brilliant.
[26:41.000 -> 26:46.560] We'll put you at the top of the list for next season.
[26:46.840 -> 26:56.280] This is January 2008, 2009. And I said, wow, that's great. And
[26:56.280 -> 26:58.760] he said, we need to sign you into the Concord Agreement first
[26:58.760 -> 27:01.440] and that won't take long. This is really exciting.
[27:01.440 -> 27:08.000] Congratulations. And then I had Bernie on the phone not long after that,
[27:08.280 -> 27:11.160] because we'd already approached Toyota North America
[27:11.160 -> 27:13.160] and they'd said, we'd love to be a part of this,
[27:13.160 -> 27:14.680] free engines, no problem at all.
[27:14.680 -> 27:16.880] This is brilliant, American Formula One team.
[27:19.120 -> 27:21.640] And I had Bernie on the phone saying,
[27:21.640 -> 27:25.000] Peter, I've got Luca Montezemolo sitting next to me.
[27:25.000 -> 27:27.000] Luca, tell Peter what you just told me.
[27:27.000 -> 27:30.000] And Luca said, Peter, I know you're talking to Toyota.
[27:30.000 -> 27:31.000] We want you to run Ferrari engines.
[27:31.000 -> 27:32.000] We want you to deal with Ferrari.
[27:32.000 -> 27:34.000] This is just so good for North America.
[27:34.000 -> 27:35.000] We know you.
[27:35.000 -> 27:36.000] We know Ken Anderson.
[27:36.000 -> 27:37.000] This is going to be a great team.
[27:37.000 -> 27:39.000] Make sure you've got American drivers.
[27:39.000 -> 27:41.000] That was always the plan.
[27:41.000 -> 27:43.000] And I said, yeah, brilliant.
[27:43.000 -> 27:44.000] So we started.
[27:44.000 -> 27:47.480] And everything was fine then for about six weeks.
[27:47.480 -> 27:51.200] And then I had Bernie on the phone saying, Peter,
[27:51.200 -> 27:52.680] stop the Ferrari deal.
[27:52.680 -> 27:53.840] Stop the Toyota deal.
[27:53.840 -> 27:55.120] Got a new deal for you.
[27:55.120 -> 27:57.200] We're going to create a new championship next year
[27:57.200 -> 27:59.400] called the Budget Cap Championship, based on roughly
[27:59.400 -> 28:01.040] you reckon you can do a team for.
[28:01.040 -> 28:02.560] We're going to invite lots of other teams
[28:02.560 -> 28:04.200] to come and do the same thing, because I'm pissed off
[28:04.200 -> 28:05.240] with all the current guys.
[28:05.240 -> 28:07.560] They're all McLaren, Ferrari, they're being a pain in the ass.
[28:07.560 -> 28:09.480] They won't sign the new Concorde agreement.
[28:09.480 -> 28:11.520] So I'm going to create a new championship.
[28:11.520 -> 28:13.080] You're going to have a much bigger rear wing.
[28:13.080 -> 28:15.400] You can have a lot more revs that you can run.
[28:15.400 -> 28:18.400] The only thing is you've got to run Cosworth engines and you've got to buy them from me
[28:18.400 -> 28:22.240] and I'm on a £7,000 deposit by next week, otherwise you're out.
[28:22.240 -> 28:25.960] So I thought, well, that's a bit rich, you know, free engines and we don't really want to be
[28:25.960 -> 28:27.320] in a new championship, Bernie.
[28:27.320 -> 28:29.440] I just want to race with everybody else in the normal way.
[28:29.440 -> 28:30.520] We want to get on the back of the grid
[28:30.520 -> 28:32.040] and do what everybody else has done
[28:32.040 -> 28:33.240] when they do a new team.
[28:33.240 -> 28:34.120] Well, that's not going to happen.
[28:34.120 -> 28:35.080] We're doing a new championship.
[28:35.080 -> 28:37.400] It's called Budget Cap, phone down, click.
[28:38.320 -> 28:42.760] So, that was the end of the Ferrari and Toyota deals
[28:42.760 -> 28:43.820] for a start.
[28:43.820 -> 28:47.960] And then of course, we tried to go through all the hoops of this new budget cap formula.
[28:47.960 -> 28:53.100] What had happened, of course, behind the scenes is that some, I think it came through Max
[28:53.100 -> 28:59.040] more than anything, but Nick Werther had all heard about this.
[28:59.040 -> 29:02.440] Basically, I imagine, I don't know, but I imagine they'd all said to Max, one of those
[29:02.440 -> 29:05.440] idiots Windsor and Anderson
[29:05.440 -> 29:08.560] can do that, then we should be doing a team as well. Why aren't we doing a team?
[29:08.560 -> 29:12.080] And they all suddenly thought, oh, let's all do a team. So all of a sudden, out of the woodwork,
[29:12.080 -> 29:15.920] from nowhere, 10 people, 10 different groups all said, oh, we can do a team for this amount of
[29:15.920 -> 29:20.400] money. And so the next thing I knew was that, oh, we can't sign you into the Concord Agreement now
[29:20.400 -> 29:27.060] because we're going to do… Everybody has to go to CBC, who are the commercial rights holder, and present their case.
[29:27.060 -> 29:32.040] We're going to have 10 teams bidding for the three spaces, three slots."
[29:32.040 -> 29:33.180] This went on and on and on.
[29:33.180 -> 29:37.820] Of course, we couldn't spend one cent or do anything until we were signed into the Concord
[29:37.820 -> 29:38.820] Agreement.
[29:38.820 -> 29:42.360] What investor is going to put money into a team that isn't actually signed into the Concord
[29:42.360 -> 29:43.360] Agreement?
[29:43.360 -> 29:46.660] We had all these investors and potential sponsors, and yes, I was talking to lots of
[29:46.660 -> 29:52.700] drivers as well, all of whom were great.
[29:52.700 -> 29:56.120] And so to cut a very long story sideways, eventually, it was, I don't know, it was about
[29:56.120 -> 30:00.000] August, September or something, they said, the great news, USF1 is one of the three teams
[30:00.000 -> 30:03.840] that's going to be accepted into this new budget cap thing.
[30:03.840 -> 30:05.360] And we didn't want the budget cap thing. We didn't want the budget cap thing.
[30:05.360 -> 30:06.680] I didn't want to be a part of that.
[30:06.680 -> 30:08.000] I knew it would never happen anyway.
[30:08.000 -> 30:13.280] I knew it was just a Bernie ruse to get McLaren, Ferrari, and Williams to come to the table.
[30:13.280 -> 30:15.480] Sure enough, that's exactly what did happen.
[30:15.480 -> 30:20.720] Anyway, when we got signed in, I said, well, this is ludicrous because, according to the
[30:20.720 -> 30:28.480] plan we put to you and everybody, we've got to create a factory with all its infrastructure. We've got to design and build a car, get it through all the crash testing.
[30:28.480 -> 30:32.800] We've got to do a million other things, and you want us to be ready by next February in four
[30:32.800 -> 30:36.880] months? You've got to be joking. Give us a year, give us a year and a half, and we'll be there."
[30:37.600 -> 30:41.360] Of course, Max said, well, no, why would I do that? I've got eight other teams ready to take
[30:41.360 -> 30:45.200] your place tomorrow. We said, okay, we'll give it a try.
[30:45.200 -> 30:47.000] There's no way it's going to happen, but we'll give it a try.
[30:47.000 -> 30:48.480] Well, what can we do?
[30:48.480 -> 30:52.880] So that's why it looked like the way it did, but it was complete nonsense.
[30:52.880 -> 30:55.760] I always found it was rather irritating.
[30:55.760 -> 30:58.960] I found it irritating that when Gene Haas decided to come into Formula 1, he was given
[30:58.960 -> 31:02.560] a good two years to get his team and car ready and it was a Dallara anyway.
[31:02.560 -> 31:04.400] It wasn't even his own car.
[31:04.400 -> 31:05.200] So we were never given that. get his team and car ready. It was a Dallara anyway. It wasn't even his own car. We were
[31:05.200 -> 31:11.920] never given that. We were given four months to do a factory and a car. If you came in from that
[31:11.920 -> 31:16.000] moment and said, well, what are these idiots trying to do a team so quickly for without knowing
[31:16.000 -> 31:22.240] the history of the thing, you would think we were idiots. All I can say now is that,
[31:22.800 -> 31:25.360] like all things in life, when you start to do things that
[31:25.360 -> 31:31.120] are different and original and creative, you draw up a list of ups and downs if they do
[31:31.120 -> 31:32.600] involve some sacrifices.
[31:32.600 -> 31:34.840] You say, what could possibly go wrong here?
[31:34.840 -> 31:40.000] In my experience, and I had a reasonable amount by then, due today, I had a list of about
[31:40.000 -> 31:46.240] ten things that could go wrong, from we don't have a great car, we don't have great drivers,
[31:46.240 -> 31:51.340] we kill a driver in the first race, American sponsors hate Formula 1 and we never get any
[31:51.340 -> 31:54.720] real backing, to a million other things that could have gone wrong.
[31:54.720 -> 31:59.040] But not in a million years did I ever imagine that Max Mosley and Bernie Eccleston would
[31:59.040 -> 32:04.400] create a new world championship, in theory, around which we would have to compete, we
[32:04.400 -> 32:07.080] didn't want, with a four-month time frame
[32:07.080 -> 32:09.480] to do a team that could never be done in that time frame.
[32:09.480 -> 32:11.600] How could you ever predict such rubbish?
[32:11.600 -> 32:12.960] But that's exactly what happened.
[32:12.960 -> 32:15.120] And today, a lot of people probably
[32:15.120 -> 32:16.200] don't know that background.
[32:16.200 -> 32:18.600] But yes, I think it's a great shame,
[32:18.600 -> 32:20.640] because I'm not saying because of my involvement,
[32:20.640 -> 32:26.240] but I think the concept of USF1 doing an all-American car, made in America
[32:26.240 -> 32:33.720] on the nose, run from Europe, using American technology with two American drivers, I think
[32:33.720 -> 32:34.720] is a great concept.
[32:34.720 -> 32:38.960] And I'm staggered that Haas has found it so difficult to find corporate American backing
[32:38.960 -> 32:44.520] for his team, probably because it's a Dallara, I don't know, but we certainly didn't.
[32:44.520 -> 32:49.200] And as I say, I had Luca Montezemolo offering free engines within about three weeks of the
[32:49.200 -> 32:51.720] deal and all that had to be thrown away.
[32:51.720 -> 32:52.880] It's a great shame.
[32:52.880 -> 32:58.400] The difficult thing was getting through that, really, and getting through the ignorance
[32:58.400 -> 33:02.780] of people who didn't understand exactly what had happened and what had gone wrong and then
[33:02.780 -> 33:03.780] having to reboot.
[33:03.780 -> 33:05.500] But it was a good thing in a way,
[33:05.500 -> 33:07.200] because then I had to just cover the internet
[33:07.200 -> 33:08.040] and do what I'm doing now.
[33:08.040 -> 33:11.580] So yeah, some things work out for the better, I guess.
[33:11.580 -> 33:12.700] Wow.
[33:12.700 -> 33:13.540] Wowee.
[33:13.540 -> 33:16.320] I didn't know this backstory to it,
[33:16.320 -> 33:19.120] but Peter, we've only got a couple of minutes more before,
[33:19.120 -> 33:20.320] actually, we've got to let you go.
[33:20.320 -> 33:22.660] And on that basis, the last question I want to ask you
[33:22.660 -> 33:24.120] on that very thing is,
[33:24.120 -> 33:25.040] were F1
[33:25.040 -> 33:29.200] sort of short-sighted with their plans to get more teams? Because all the three teams that did
[33:29.200 -> 33:33.760] eventually come in in 2010, they really didn't last long, did they? Well, no, because they all came in
[33:33.760 -> 33:40.240] having told companies like Virgin or whatever that they were going to do it on 30 million. And if it
[33:40.240 -> 33:45.760] was a 30 million budget cap, and everybody was racing to that, I suppose it
[33:45.760 -> 33:46.760] could have worked.
[33:46.760 -> 33:47.760] But of course it wasn't.
[33:47.760 -> 33:50.560] It was the normal world championship again, because as I predicted, the thing, Bernie's
[33:50.560 -> 33:52.440] championship never happened.
[33:52.440 -> 33:56.320] So all of these teams that supposedly, you know, it just came out of the woodwork when
[33:56.320 -> 34:00.880] they heard this thing that Max had announced, they were in there and suddenly they were
[34:00.880 -> 34:06.480] swimming in very deep waters, having imagined they were going to be in a tiny paddling pool.
[34:06.480 -> 34:08.160] And that's why they all failed, basically.
[34:08.160 -> 34:11.960] And I'm sure Ross Braun would say, oh, we didn't fail.
[34:11.960 -> 34:15.400] But obviously, that was a different situation with Honda
[34:15.400 -> 34:17.000] and so forth with Braun.
[34:17.000 -> 34:24.400] But it was a ridiculous thing.
[34:24.400 -> 34:29.760] Actually pains me to think about it now because none of it was for the, when I think
[34:29.760 -> 34:33.040] about Adrian Campos, the sacrifices he made to try and do it right.
[34:33.040 -> 34:36.520] And it was never going to work because everything was wrong.
[34:36.520 -> 34:40.200] The buildup to it was not where they were racing anyway.
[34:40.200 -> 34:43.560] They were all part of this stupid budget cap thing.
[34:43.560 -> 34:44.560] Wow.
[34:44.560 -> 34:48.880] It's actually changed my perspective on the early 2010s era of Formula One.
[34:49.600 -> 34:53.600] But that's amazing, Peter. So it was amazing to hear this. But unfortunately, we've got to
[34:53.600 -> 34:56.640] let you go at this stage because time is unfortunately running short. But
[34:56.640 -> 35:00.640] luckily, we've got you on for our USGP Watch Along coming up rather soon.
[35:00.640 -> 35:01.520] Well, that's right.
[35:02.160 -> 35:09.040] Yeah, we should have a lot more stories and more insights to discuss about the race over there as well. So it'll be amazing to have you there on, Peter. And
[35:09.040 -> 35:12.800] folks, if you haven't registered yet, check out the link in the description below to sign up for
[35:12.800 -> 35:16.800] that. But Peter, thank you for sparing your time for this episode. Thank you for joining us. And
[35:16.800 -> 35:20.800] see you for the United States Grand Prix. It's going to be a ton of fun to have you over there.
[35:20.800 -> 35:25.400] Yeah, looking forward to it. And looking forward to interfacing with your fans as well.
[35:25.400 -> 35:26.400] Thank you.
[35:26.400 -> 35:27.400] Thank you for watching, folks.
[35:27.400 -> 35:28.400] Thank you for listening and we shall see you rather soon.
[35:28.400 -> None] Bye-bye. you