Logan Sargeant: Can Williams afford to keep him?

The 'driver silly season' for the 2023 Formula 1 season was barely a season at all, let alone be silly. But you can't call us silly for calling out Logan Sargeant's lack of performances this season. 

Are we sharing an opinion on Sargeant's season, yes? Are we backing it up with data, absolutely, yes. But why would Williams be backing their driver who isn't performing? Their car is progressing up to the midfield and so should both their drivers, isn't it? 

How has Logan Sargeant performed against George Russell in his first year at Williams? And what about Nicholas Latifi? We all know his stats aren't impressive against the mighty Alexander Albon. 

In this episode of the Inside Line F1 Podcast, Soumil Arora, @f1statsguru and Kunal Shah discuss Logan Sargeant's performances in 2023 or lack thereof, what Williams' future should be in 2024 and more.

Tune in!

(Season 2023, Episode 52)

Follow our hosts on Twitter: Soumil Arora, @f1statsguru and Kunal Shah

Image courtesy: Williams Racing

## Inside Line F1 Podcast: Episode 52 - Logan Sargeant's Lackluster Performance and Williams' Future

### Introduction:

* The 2023 Formula 1 season has had a lackluster driver market, with few surprises or dramatic moves.
* One remaining question is whether Logan Sargeant will retain his seat at Williams for 2024.
* The podcast hosts, Soumil Arora, Kunal Shah, and Sundaram, unanimously believe that Sargeant should not be retained.

### Sargeant's Performance Analysis:

* Sargeant has not performed well against his teammate, Alex Albon, in his first year at Williams.
* He has never out-qualified Albon and has not scored a single point this season.
* His average qualifying gap to Albon is half a second, even when excluding unfamiliar circuits.
* Sargeant has had four crashes in the last four races after the summer break.

### Williams' Future and Intent:

* Williams is progressing as a team and has made significant strides in recent months.
* Their goal is to become an upper-midfield team, and retaining Sargeant would contradict this ambition.
* Williams' actions and statements suggest a focus on becoming a stronger team, and Sargeant's continued presence would undermine this intent.

### Spark and Potential Alternatives:

* Oscar Piastri and Liam Lawson have shown great promise as rookies this season, demonstrating the importance of spark and potential in young drivers.
* Sargeant lacks the same level of spark and potential, making it difficult to justify his retention.
* Mick Schumacher and Liam Lawson are mentioned as potential alternatives for the Williams seat.

### Commercial Considerations:

* Some teams may retain drivers despite poor performance due to commercial reasons or contractual obligations.
* Williams may be tempted to keep Sargeant for financial reasons, as he brings in sponsorship money.
* However, the team's long-term goal should be to prioritize performance and competitiveness.

### Conclusion:

* The podcast hosts strongly believe that Williams should not retain Logan Sargeant for the 2024 season.
* His performance has been subpar, and he does not align with the team's stated goals of becoming an upper-midfield contender.
* Williams should consider drivers like Mick Schumacher or Liam Lawson, who have shown more promise and potential.

[00:00.000 -> 00:23.360] It's been the least silly season that you could ever imagine.
[00:23.360 -> 00:27.520] I think it's the whole trend for Formula 1 this year, where we could have had so much
[00:27.520 -> 00:29.380] more fun, but we aren't.
[00:29.380 -> 00:33.240] But I think considering the driver market, the big moves might be locked out and we're
[00:33.240 -> 00:37.400] only just waiting to see if Red Bull end up doing something very dramatic with Sergio
[00:37.400 -> 00:38.400] Perez.
[00:38.400 -> 00:43.760] But guys and girls, there's still one more seat in Formula 1 that's very much under jeopardy.
[00:43.760 -> 00:50.240] And today we're going to hype it up, talk so much about it and of course get to discuss our favorite topic, Sergeant Logan as well.
[00:50.240 -> 00:55.440] The main question for today is are we really going to see Logan, Sergeant and Williams next year?
[00:55.440 -> 00:59.920] I think the answer to that probably considering the circumstances would be yes,
[00:59.920 -> 01:05.920] but every single person here on the InsideLine F1 podcast really disputes it. My name is Somal Arora.
[01:05.920 -> 01:08.920] I'm the voice of the MotoGP Indian Grand Prix.
[01:08.920 -> 01:11.040] I am joined by Kunal Shah, the former marketing head
[01:11.040 -> 01:12.640] of the Force India F1 team,
[01:12.640 -> 01:15.680] who's also an F1 consultant and an expert
[01:15.680 -> 01:17.400] for the Viaplay Network in Norway.
[01:17.400 -> 01:19.840] And of course, to help out with all the numbers
[01:19.840 -> 01:21.120] behind the story as well,
[01:21.120 -> 01:23.120] we've got F1 stats guru Sundaram,
[01:23.120 -> 01:25.360] finally back in on the podcast as well.
[01:25.360 -> 01:31.840] But would I be 100% clear in this guys? I think we're all unanimously agreeing that anyone barring
[01:31.840 -> 01:38.800] Logan Sargent, not my pet, Sundaram not your pup as well, but anyone barring that and Logan Sargent
[01:38.800 -> 01:43.520] should be in the William seat next year. Clearly, right? Yes, I suppose so.
[01:44.160 -> 01:46.320] Well, what is a long pause about? Honestly you
[01:46.320 -> 01:51.040] were thinking, you were considering. Like me and Kunal have a proper eight-page
[01:51.040 -> 01:54.400] document for why he shouldn't but you gave it a second. What's the what's the
[01:54.400 -> 01:58.120] story behind it? I just wanted to cross-check if there were any positives behind Sajan's
[01:58.120 -> 02:01.960] stint with Williams but quite clearly I think Williams need to look at a
[02:01.960 -> 02:05.920] different driver for 2024. Yeah why does does it pain so much, honestly,
[02:05.920 -> 02:07.240] is the question I have for you.
[02:07.240 -> 02:08.760] I think by any positive,
[02:08.760 -> 02:11.080] one of the main things that we've always known,
[02:11.080 -> 02:13.840] and it was adequately clear last year as well,
[02:13.840 -> 02:17.840] was he being American is a big part in his signing.
[02:17.840 -> 02:20.860] Darleton, capital, also American,
[02:20.860 -> 02:22.600] with the whole Liberty Media drive
[02:22.600 -> 02:24.920] to have an American driver
[02:24.920 -> 02:27.840] who's bred through the Liberty
[02:27.840 -> 02:33.760] Media feeder series, F3, F2, F1, et cetera. So he's probably been in the right place at the
[02:33.760 -> 02:39.920] right time to get that drive. But the question that we are all trying to dig deep into along
[02:39.920 -> 02:46.640] with data and not just make it all about opinions is, has he really done enough to merit an
[02:46.640 -> 02:53.280] extension and should he really get an extension for 2024? Right guys, that's probably where
[02:53.280 -> 02:54.520] we're trying to go.
[02:54.520 -> 02:59.760] One second, on that front as well, I think if we've all spent 20 minutes analyzing data
[02:59.760 -> 03:10.800] and every single pointer says no, isn't much of a debate, isn't it? So why don't we tell the people what the numbers really say because oh my god, I think at one
[03:10.800 -> 03:14.840] point I just stopped looking because it just got worse and worse and worse and
[03:14.840 -> 03:20.120] worse. So where do we begin now? I can actually vouch for that. When we
[03:20.120 -> 03:23.440] were preparing all the data before this Sundaram and I were digging in through
[03:23.440 -> 03:28.080] stuff and someone was like guys can we just start guys I think we got enough can we just start
[03:28.080 -> 03:33.600] and by him saying we've got enough we've got enough to prove our point that he shouldn't
[03:33.600 -> 03:41.000] based on performance data be renewed right and I'm also going to put on a hat that I
[03:41.000 -> 03:48.900] used to put on when I was running the Force India Driver Academy, right? So what is it that you look for in a driver before you choose to go ahead
[03:48.900 -> 03:51.200] or not with him or her, right?
[03:51.200 -> 03:54.900] And the first thing of course is no crashes,
[03:54.900 -> 03:58.500] but that's obvious that you don't want your driver to crash.
[03:59.200 -> 04:06.000] The second thing of course is down to the fact that you want to see progression in your driver.
[04:06.000 -> 04:14.000] By progression, you mean as the season goes, you are seeing your driver become better, faster, getting closer to your teammate,
[04:14.000 -> 04:25.000] becoming more mature in the cockpit, and so on. we just typically would look at qualifying or race data,
[04:25.900 -> 04:28.440] but you also see free practice data
[04:28.440 -> 04:30.180] to see how close the driver has gone.
[04:30.180 -> 04:32.360] And then you remove outliers like,
[04:32.360 -> 04:34.300] sometimes you're just testing parts,
[04:34.300 -> 04:37.060] sometimes the weather is different,
[04:37.060 -> 04:39.740] sometimes you just don't get in a representative time
[04:39.740 -> 04:41.800] because the team are trying different things,
[04:41.800 -> 04:44.500] especially when it comes to sprint weekends and so on.
[04:44.500 -> 04:50.080] So if you put all that in, this, this is going to be a three hour long podcast, right?
[04:50.080 -> 04:55.000] But the truth of all of this, if we were to, you know, sort of summarize it as he's had
[04:55.000 -> 04:58.980] four crashes in the last four races after the summer break, right?
[04:58.980 -> 05:00.560] So that's one part.
[05:00.560 -> 05:05.000] Then the second what I've done is split into circuits that he's raced at before
[05:05.000 -> 05:09.000] versus circuits he's not raced at before, right?
[05:09.000 -> 05:12.000] Because familiarity always helps as well.
[05:12.000 -> 05:18.000] Now, his average gap across the season to Alexander Alban has been
[05:18.000 -> 05:22.000] 5, you know, sorry, it has been half a second.
[05:22.000 -> 05:26.400] Even if you were to remove all the circuits he knows and he doesn't know, sorry, has been half a second. Even if you were to remove all the circuits he knows and he doesn't know,
[05:26.400 -> 05:29.120] the gap still remains at half a second.
[05:29.760 -> 05:34.400] Right, so just throwing the numbers out there for you guys and for everybody else.
[05:35.280 -> 05:40.160] Now, to add on to that, that as well, right, there's so much of team-made data that we can also consider.
[05:40.160 -> 05:43.840] Now, I really want to talk about this qualifying head-to-head bit as well, where
[05:43.840 -> 05:45.320] every single
[05:45.320 -> 05:48.040] time this year, Albon has out-qualified Logan Sargent.
[05:48.040 -> 05:52.360] For context, last year when Albon was with Latifi as well, Sundaram, Latifi was able
[05:52.360 -> 05:55.040] to out-qualify Albon a couple of times.
[05:55.040 -> 05:57.040] And you know when it gets really worse?
[05:57.040 -> 06:00.880] So, Yuvda, Nick Tiffary is actually being sacked from Alpha Tauri midway through the
[06:00.880 -> 06:04.240] season and his qualifying record actually was strange.
[06:04.240 -> 06:09.560] In 10 races, he was actually able to beat Sonoda thrice in quali and he doesn't
[06:09.560 -> 06:13.840] have a seat. Our man Logan Sargent does at the moment in time. And that's why it
[06:13.840 -> 06:17.440] doesn't look good on Sargent and like Kunal mentioned, the other two
[06:17.440 -> 06:22.320] important numbers is the fact that Logan Sargent doesn't have a single point this
[06:22.320 -> 06:26.400] year. All of the team's points have come via Alex Albon
[06:26.400 -> 06:29.760] and he's never outqualified Albon as well.
[06:29.760 -> 06:33.360] So these two points don't look very good on his behalf.
[06:33.360 -> 06:36.560] But probably one of the other reasons why James Wowles
[06:36.560 -> 06:41.280] seems to want Logan Sargent next year
[06:41.280 -> 06:43.920] is also the fact that Williams is really not battling
[06:43.920 -> 06:50.080] with anyone in the Constructors Championship. They are at a place in P7, their target is P7 and they are way behind
[06:50.080 -> 06:55.760] Alpine which is I think 60-65 points behind Alpine. If they were closer in a championship
[06:55.760 -> 07:01.440] fight with another team and Logan Sargent not scoring points, he would have probably been a
[07:01.440 -> 07:06.240] little bit more critical is what I believe. It's not happening at the Aston Martin camp.
[07:06.240 -> 07:10.320] Quite clearly, we know that Lance Stroll is hampering Aston Martin's chances
[07:10.320 -> 07:15.120] this year of finishing P2, P3 or P4 and they're sliding down.
[07:15.120 -> 07:20.600] But another fact is that Sargent not scoring points for the rest of the season
[07:20.600 -> 07:22.200] is really not going to hamper Williams.
[07:22.200 -> 07:24.040] They're going to probably end up taking P7.
[07:24.040 -> 07:27.920] Albon might take a couple of more points through the rest of the season. But
[07:27.920 -> 07:32.680] yes, he's not scored a single point. And it doesn't really look good, especially when
[07:32.680 -> 07:38.320] Liam Lawson has scored points. Oscar Piasti has scored points at plenty of lately, but
[07:38.320 -> 07:42.360] obviously he's in a better car. But compare yourself even to Liam Lawson, who's been here
[07:42.360 -> 07:45.720] only for four races, doesn't look good on Sargent.
[07:45.720 -> 07:54.800] Yeah, exactly. And you know if Lawson is the metric and you know where you make your comparison, it's very smart because I'm sure
[07:55.760 -> 08:02.040] Logan Sargent doesn't want to be compared to Nicholas Latifi who clearly nobody wanted and was like, you know
[08:02.920 -> 08:12.000] Suddenly he's not even driving anywhere else. He's off to study somewhere right if you remember yeah okay yeah but I
[08:12.000 -> 08:16.000] actually beg to differ with what Sundaram said because yes Williams is
[08:16.000 -> 08:20.600] not in a battle for P6 with Alpine you know four times the points ahead
[08:20.600 -> 08:26.780] literally 21 to 84 but Haas is just nine points behind we've got sprint
[08:26.780 -> 08:32.400] races coming up and you know we've seen that all it takes is one crazy race suddenly Haas
[08:32.400 -> 08:37.440] with two really experienced drivers score it in and then boom what happens next you
[08:37.440 -> 08:47.000] know so it could it could well be that they are in a battle for P7 so that they don't drop down. But yes, he's not outqualified.
[08:47.800 -> 08:52.040] Albon, he's not scored a point this year again.
[08:52.600 -> 08:55.040] He's had just one Q3 appearance.
[08:55.080 -> 09:01.720] He's had 12 Q1 exits compared to Albon, who's had four Q3 appearances
[09:01.720 -> 09:04.520] and six, only six Q1 exits.
[09:04.920 -> 09:05.000] Yes, Albon has more experience, et cetera. Q3 appearances and only six Q1 exits.
[09:05.000 -> 09:07.040] Yes, Albin has more experience, et cetera.
[09:07.040 -> 09:09.000] But like I said, it's the main fact,
[09:09.000 -> 09:12.120] which is progression that really matters.
[09:12.120 -> 09:13.480] And here's something fun.
[09:13.480 -> 09:18.480] So we are, of course, comparing Sargent in his first year
[09:18.880 -> 09:20.920] with Albin in maybe what is his third year
[09:20.920 -> 09:23.720] or whatever number of years he's done across the teams.
[09:23.720 -> 09:28.000] But if you look at George Russell in his first year at Williams,
[09:28.000 -> 09:31.160] he had 21 Q1 exits. So at least on that stat,
[09:32.120 -> 09:34.840] Logan Sargent actually has a better stat out there.
[09:35.680 -> 09:40.880] No, but I think what you've mentioned only makes it worse because at this moment
[09:40.880 -> 09:42.240] in time, when you look at that Williams,
[09:42.560 -> 09:47.520] and when you see what they've done at circuits like Zandvoort and Monza, you get a feeling that they have a car that
[09:47.520 -> 09:52.280] at least on some occasions can do something, as we've constantly seen with Alex Albon.
[09:52.280 -> 09:56.300] The reason why I'll be so disappointed if they keep Logan Sargent is not because it's
[09:56.300 -> 09:57.300] Logan Sargent.
[09:57.300 -> 10:00.280] I think he as a driver can really do better in course of time.
[10:00.280 -> 10:02.720] But it's a case of a statement of intent.
[10:02.720 -> 10:05.680] Now, a question for you Kunal, if you ever want to break
[10:05.680 -> 10:09.360] a bad habit right, if you want to become a morning person, I know you've always been a morning person
[10:09.360 -> 10:13.200] but in case you do want to become a morning person and then someone calls you to go partying at 10
[10:13.200 -> 10:18.160] o'clock in the night, do you make a decision based on who you were yesterday or who you want to be
[10:18.160 -> 10:22.160] tomorrow? I think most people who write a good self-help book will say what you want to be
[10:22.160 -> 10:26.120] tomorrow when they say dress up for the job you, or maybe act in the way you would want to
[10:26.120 -> 10:27.720] see yourself in the future.
[10:27.720 -> 10:28.720] Fake it till you make it basically.
[10:28.720 -> 10:32.720] I'll be really disappointed with Williams if they go back to another paid driver in
[10:32.720 -> 10:38.400] Logan Sargent, when their ambition, intent, actions are all focused in the direction of
[10:38.400 -> 10:40.240] becoming an upper midfield team.
[10:40.240 -> 10:41.760] And it just doesn't add up.
[10:41.760 -> 10:49.840] The behavior and the intent and what they try to show to the world really would seem odd, no Sundaram? And that's why I think Logan Sargent really is a problem for them.
[10:49.840 -> 10:55.920] Yeah, so, you know, actually, that's a great analogy, Somil, because Williams is progressing,
[10:55.920 -> 11:01.200] they've made great strides, they've hired a new technical officer, change in management, etc.
[11:01.200 -> 11:07.840] And at least, you know, from what we know, Logan Sargent's father doesn't own the team. So
[11:07.840 -> 11:14.240] at least there are no paternal reasons to or familial reasons to keep him there, right? But
[11:15.120 -> 11:18.800] it's a great point. If your car is progressing, if your team is progressing, but your driver is
[11:18.800 -> 11:24.400] holding you back, should you make that change? And there is a counterpoint to this because,
[11:24.400 -> 11:25.320] you know, Sundaram said,
[11:25.320 -> 11:27.240] I'm trying to think of the positives.
[11:27.240 -> 11:29.840] And to me, the positives are that I would think
[11:29.840 -> 11:31.320] that maybe after the summer break,
[11:31.320 -> 11:34.440] he's been a little closer to Albin,
[11:34.440 -> 11:35.740] if you were to look at it.
[11:35.740 -> 11:38.280] In Sunfoot, he made it to Q3
[11:38.280 -> 11:41.680] for the first time this season, but he crashed.
[11:41.680 -> 11:48.160] In Monza, he was 15th while Albin was sixth.
[11:48.160 -> 11:52.520] In Singapore, his first time around, 18th versus 14th.
[11:52.520 -> 11:54.860] And he's clearly not been as close
[11:54.860 -> 11:57.400] as anyone would have wanted, but probably been closer.
[11:57.400 -> 11:58.440] But he's also crashed,
[11:58.440 -> 12:00.860] which means he's also trying really hard.
[12:00.860 -> 12:03.000] So maybe James Wawel is just sitting down.
[12:03.000 -> 12:06.000] And remember, James Wawel also comes from a racing background, right? So heel is just sitting down and remember James Wawel also comes from a racing
[12:06.000 -> 12:10.480] background, right? So he's probably just sitting down and saying, you know what, let's calm him
[12:10.480 -> 12:15.280] down. We can't get rid of him till the end of the season. We want him to succeed as well, etc, etc,
[12:15.280 -> 12:19.680] right? So it's his way of trying to just mentor the driver. And this is also where I will quote
[12:19.680 -> 12:29.320] the great Franz Tost. And I say the great Franz Tost because while we herald Red Bull and Helmut Marko for Vettel and Verstappen
[12:29.480 -> 12:32.440] and Riccardo and the great drivers that have come
[12:32.440 -> 12:35.940] from that junior team, they've also been conditioned
[12:35.940 -> 12:37.700] by Franz Tost.
[12:37.700 -> 12:40.820] And Franz Tost has always maintained that for a driver
[12:40.820 -> 12:43.560] to succeed in modern day Formula One,
[12:43.560 -> 12:44.680] you need three seasons.
[12:44.680 -> 12:51.120] And that's what happened or that's what is happening to Yuki Sonoda, right? But am I trying to say that Logan
[12:51.120 -> 12:56.640] Sargent needs three seasons? Maybe he does, but your question of intent is where I'll also put
[12:56.640 -> 13:02.160] in a question of spark. When Oscar Piastri, there are three rookies this season, Oscar Piastri,
[13:02.160 -> 13:05.540] in just 14 races got a three or contract extension.
[13:05.540 -> 13:07.980] We all saw that spark visibly.
[13:07.980 -> 13:12.300] Nobody needed to tell us, even when the McLaren was not doing well, right?
[13:12.660 -> 13:16.420] Liam Lawson in just those four races, we've seen that spark.
[13:16.500 -> 13:21.460] Alpha Tauri, comparable, really poor car, but against Yuki Tsunoda, et cetera.
[13:21.700 -> 13:28.940] He's shown that spark, which is why everybody's upset saying, Oh my God, you know, Lawson's not got a seat for 24. But will somebody feel upset? Will you guys
[13:28.940 -> 13:31.940] feel upset if Sargent doesn't have a seat in 24?
[13:31.940 -> 13:38.660] No, honestly, for the person, yes. But honestly, it's just that right where Williams want to
[13:38.660 -> 13:43.020] be today is something that they could far rather achieve with someone else pushing the
[13:43.020 -> 13:45.360] car in that extent as well. Like Haas,
[13:45.360 -> 13:49.840] I know they've not had the best year so far, but it's way, way better than where it was last year.
[13:49.840 -> 13:53.600] Having two experienced drivers helping out with development is quite something. And then
[13:53.600 -> 13:57.840] on the odd occasion, remember a couple of minutes ago Kunal, you mentioned that maybe one crazy race,
[13:57.840 -> 14:01.840] I think Sundaram it was you, but one crazy race, Haas, both experienced drivers, you never know
[14:01.840 -> 14:08.880] what they can pull out. That factor you can never say with Williams because at this moment in time, unfortunately, it seems like a certainty that
[14:08.880 -> 14:13.600] only one of them is going to perform. And that's already like walking into a fight, walking into
[14:13.600 -> 14:17.360] like a taekwondo fight, but knowing that your ankle isn't working properly. What are you going
[14:17.360 -> 14:22.880] to do about it? Punch? It's not going to work, is it? No, this is definitely not the Williams of
[14:22.880 -> 14:25.440] the past couple of seasons. Surely they don't
[14:25.440 -> 14:31.400] expect to be in the points in every single race, but they have come a fair distance from
[14:31.400 -> 14:36.360] where this team was in 2019 or 2020, where they were not scoring points through the season.
[14:36.360 -> 14:41.240] So like I said, they probably don't expect to score points in every race, but when there
[14:41.240 -> 14:45.820] is that opportunity for the car to do well, Alex Albon has been able to convert that.
[14:45.820 -> 14:51.980] And it seems sometimes Logan Sargent is somewhere close to Albon, but then he kind of just drops it,
[14:51.980 -> 14:56.780] similarly to what happened in Sanford. When both of them got into Q3, you kind of,
[14:56.780 -> 15:02.420] I did exclaim saying that, okay, even Logan Sargent is in Q3, but then he goes and crashes
[15:02.420 -> 15:09.040] after his first quali lap. So it's important that when the opportunity does present itself to you that you take
[15:09.040 -> 15:12.960] it with both hands and probably Sargent has not done that. Oh yeah absolutely
[15:12.960 -> 15:18.200] that is so well said and okay before we wrap up I'm gonna just put it out there
[15:18.200 -> 15:22.880] so okay one theory before I put it put things out there is sometimes drivers
[15:22.880 -> 15:29.320] don't perform well but their team actually comes out to back them yes it's for psychological reasons
[15:29.320 -> 15:33.600] but a lot of times and I'm not going to name drivers here it could also be for
[15:33.600 -> 15:41.160] commercial reasons drivers may can have it in their contracts right that you
[15:41.160 -> 15:45.120] cannot speak negatively about me for more than X number of times.
[15:45.120 -> 15:49.620] It's difficult to measure that, but the commercial pressures can be so high,
[15:49.620 -> 15:54.120] especially for smaller teams who are relying on driver-led sponsorships
[15:54.120 -> 15:57.920] that you're just like, okay, not only is the driver bringing in points,
[15:57.920 -> 15:59.420] the driver is also bringing in money.
[15:59.420 -> 16:02.920] And of course, in this case, the driver is not bringing in points, right?
[16:02.920 -> 16:05.600] But my theory here was
[16:05.600 -> 16:10.600] there are a couple of drivers on the grid who can still make it to that
[16:10.600 -> 16:14.520] Williams right Nick DeFries is signed with Mahindra for Formula E so he's out
[16:14.520 -> 16:19.160] and he actually had a good debut in that Williams. Mick Schumacher, Toto Wolff is
[16:19.160 -> 16:27.280] aggressively trying to pitch Mick Schumacher for that Williams and And, you know, we've typically seen if Wolf
[16:27.280 -> 16:31.440] pitches for his drivers, he ends up getting a seat, as we've seen before, whether it was
[16:31.440 -> 16:38.280] Ocon at Renault or Bottas at Sauber, etc. I hope Mick Schumacher gets a second shot
[16:38.280 -> 16:43.240] in because he stayed one year out. Staying the second year out, it gets only increasingly
[16:43.240 -> 16:49.880] difficult for somebody to then sign him up, I would say. So I would definitely love to see a Mick there, knowing
[16:49.880 -> 16:54.280] fully well that Red Bull will not release Lawson to go there.
[16:54.280 -> 16:58.440] Oh, that'd be interesting, right? Because Red Bull are in the tricky spot, but they
[16:58.440 -> 17:04.000] want Lawson as well. But no, I really agree that Mick would be the best candidate because
[17:04.000 -> 17:05.440] who else really comes to mind Sundaram?
[17:05.440 -> 17:09.520] Nobody from F2 really has also grabbed both the hands and said, yes, this is going to be my seat.
[17:10.480 -> 17:13.120] No. Not that you need to. Sajjan was P5 in F2 anyway.
[17:14.080 -> 17:19.840] Not specifically. I wouldn't say there's a specific contender for Williams in specific,
[17:19.840 -> 17:26.680] maybe for other teams, maybe for teams like Alfa Romeo, but specifically for Williams, if there is one person
[17:26.680 -> 17:29.040] who I think should probably be driving for Williams
[17:29.040 -> 17:31.240] next year is maybe Liam Lawson.
[17:31.240 -> 17:33.280] Maybe not even Mick, in my opinion,
[17:33.280 -> 17:36.440] but I would really love to see what Lawson is able to do
[17:37.760 -> 17:39.440] in that Williams car next year.
[17:39.440 -> 17:42.200] He's done, I think he's done exceptionally well
[17:42.200 -> 17:49.200] in the few opportunities that he's had this year. I mean, he doesn't even know if he's going to be racing at the next Grand Prix looking at
[17:49.200 -> 17:54.640] how Ricardo is recovering, but he's taking it race by race. In that sense, I think Lawson has been
[17:54.640 -> 18:00.320] doing extremely well and I would absolutely love to see him in the Williams car and I believe he
[18:00.320 -> 18:06.980] would probably do better than Sargent. But I think the question is, is James Rowell's looking only at the ability
[18:06.980 -> 18:09.040] to score points or he's looking at something
[18:09.040 -> 18:10.160] beyond that as well?
[18:10.160 -> 18:12.360] That's a great point because, you know,
[18:12.360 -> 18:14.040] typically over the years,
[18:14.040 -> 18:16.640] and this is for all the new fans of Formula One,
[18:16.640 -> 18:21.120] each time a team scores points with both drivers or one,
[18:21.120 -> 18:23.800] they end up getting more money from Formula One,
[18:23.800 -> 18:25.680] assuming depending on where they stand in
[18:25.680 -> 18:29.200] the Constructors' Championship, and that's what we call the Concord Agreement, right?
[18:29.840 -> 18:35.040] And typically, a team has to decide whether you get a paid driver who struggles to score points,
[18:35.600 -> 18:40.880] but you are guaranteed some amount of driverless sponsorship, or you get a driver who has a higher
[18:40.880 -> 18:46.320] probability of scoring points. So you get more money from Formula One at the end of the season.
[18:46.320 -> 18:48.680] And of course, better performance also means
[18:48.680 -> 18:51.120] that the team itself gets more attractive
[18:51.120 -> 18:52.760] to external sponsorships, right?
[18:52.760 -> 18:55.800] And this is always something the teams end up juggling.
[18:55.800 -> 18:58.640] And I would love to see a Lawson at Williams.
[18:59.680 -> 19:02.760] Could it be that it's Mercedes versus Red Bull
[19:02.760 -> 19:06.500] yet again to place a second driver at Williams?
[19:06.500 -> 19:08.420] And I'll tell you the historic case here.
[19:08.420 -> 19:11.560] When Albin was loaned by Red Bull
[19:11.560 -> 19:13.420] to Williams a couple of years ago,
[19:13.420 -> 19:16.120] the other driver Mercedes was pushing at that time
[19:16.120 -> 19:19.560] was Nick DeVries because he was a Mercedes simulator driver.
[19:19.560 -> 19:21.740] Now this year, could it be Schumacher,
[19:21.740 -> 19:23.440] who's a Mercedes simulator driver,
[19:23.440 -> 19:26.080] versus Lawson for Williams next year? Could it be Schumacher, who's a Mercedes simulator driver versus Lawson for Williams
[19:26.080 -> 19:31.600] next year? And at the end of the day, Red Bull settled this by just paying some money
[19:31.600 -> 19:33.600] for Albon's seat that time.
[19:33.600 -> 19:40.240] So does Williams then become a team C or C team, sorry, a C team for Red Bull, the B
[19:40.240 -> 19:45.400] team being AlphaTauri and Williams having Albon and Lawson probably.
[19:45.400 -> 19:46.800] That makes it a C team, wouldn't it?
[19:48.680 -> 19:50.160] That's not who they really are, right?
[19:50.160 -> 19:50.960] Come on, come on.
[19:50.960 -> 19:54.480] They can be better than that, which is why it's so annoying to hear this entire
[19:54.480 -> 19:56.880] chatter about do we really want Logan Sargent in there?
[19:56.880 -> 20:00.920] And I know commercial sponsorships are probably, not probably, actually,
[20:00.920 -> 20:02.080] genuinely very, very helpful.
[20:02.080 -> 20:04.400] But where do you want to be in the future?
[20:04.400 -> 20:07.460] How far are they? Because in my head looking at the performances I
[20:07.460 -> 20:11.520] think it is that stage where they really can afford to take that risk of having
[20:11.520 -> 20:15.360] two good drivers. But folks that's about it from our end. What are your thoughts?
[20:15.360 -> 20:20.520] We really really struggle to think of a positive but can you think of one? Let us
[20:20.520 -> 20:24.280] know by following us on social media and keeping in touch with our next events as
[20:24.280 -> 20:25.040] well because
[20:25.040 -> 20:30.400] we're going to be back at Car Social this Sunday for the Qatar GP F1 pit stop. So,
[20:30.400 -> 20:33.760] check out the link in the description of this episode to join us over there as well.
[20:33.760 -> 20:38.240] But until then folks, this is it. We'll be back with the Qatar GP preview shortly.
[20:38.240 -> None] Stay tuned on the InsideLine F1 Podcast everyone and see you this Sunday. Bye-bye. you