BTS: Bernie Ecclestone & 'Lucky' with Manish Pandey

'Lucky' is easily one of the most-awaited Motorsport series in Formula 1's ongoing winter break. Directed by award-winner Manish Pandey (of 'Senna' fame), Lucky is narrated by Formula 1's original Ringmaster & Wizard of Oz, Bernie Ecclestone.

In this episode of the Inside Line F1 Podcast, Manish Pandey (who also wrote-produced 'Senna') shares behind-the-scenes moments from Lucky - how it was to work with Bernie Ecclestone, why the show is called 'Lucky', why Formula 1 fans (new and old!) should look forward to his upcoming production that will premiere on 27th December across various markets...and more.

This episode left us with goosebumps & excitement as we countdown to the 27th...

Tune in!

(Season 2022, Episode 73)

Follow our hosts on Twitter: Soumil Arora

Image courtesy: Lucky TV Series

Sure, here's a summary of the podcast episode:

**Title:** Inside Line F1 Podcast - "Lucky" with Manish Pandey
**Host:** Soumil Arora and Kunal Shah
**Guest:** Manish Pandey, Formula One storyteller and director of the upcoming series "Lucky"

**Summary:**

- "Lucky" is an upcoming Formula One series directed by Manish Pandey and narrated by Bernie Ecclestone.
- The series will provide a detailed and insightful look into the history of Formula One, from its early days to the present.
- Ecclestone, the former CEO of Formula One, will share his personal experiences and perspectives on the sport.
- The series aims to educate and entertain fans, both old and new, by delving into the stories and characters that have shaped Formula One.
- Pandey highlights the significance of the 1972 meeting in South Africa, where Ecclestone proposed turning Formula One into a business, as a pivotal moment in the sport's history.
- Ecclestone's account of the tragic events of May 1st, 1994, including the aftermath and his relationship with Ayrton Senna's family, is a particularly emotional and powerful moment in the series.
- The series also explores Ecclestone's final day at work, providing a poignant and reflective look at his career and legacy.
- The title "Lucky" is ironically chosen, as Ecclestone himself attributes his success to luck rather than strategic planning.
- Pandey describes Ecclestone as a straightforward and intelligent individual who possesses a unique blend of mathematical and interpersonal skills.
- Ecclestone's testing of Pandey's knowledge about Formula One history illustrates his desire to engage with those who genuinely understand and appreciate the sport.

**Overall Message:**

"Lucky" promises to be an in-depth and captivating exploration of the history of Formula One, narrated by one of the sport's most influential figures, Bernie Ecclestone. The series aims to provide a deeper understanding and appreciation of Formula One for fans of all levels.

**"Lucky" Documentary Series: An In-depth Exploration of Formula One's History and Bernie Ecclestone's Role**

The "Lucky" documentary series, directed by Manish Pandey and narrated by Bernie Ecclestone, promises to be an insightful journey into the world of Formula One racing. In this podcast episode, Pandey shares behind-the-scenes moments from the making of the series, offering a glimpse into the challenges and triumphs of bringing this story to life.

**Key Insights:**

* **Bernie Ecclestone's Role:** Ecclestone, known as the "Ringmaster & Wizard of Oz" of Formula One, played a pivotal role in shaping the sport. He possessed a unique ability to negotiate and make deals, ensuring that the races were held and the sport continued to grow.

* **Pandey's Preparation:** Pandey emphasizes the importance of preparation before meeting Ecclestone, who is known for his intimidating presence. He highlights the need to respect Ecclestone's time and recognize his vast experience and knowledge.

* **Access to Formula One Archives:** Pandey expresses gratitude for the unprecedented access granted to Formula One's archives, which allowed the team to tell stories from different perspectives and showcase rare footage, such as the Las Vegas Grand Prix and interactions with legendary drivers.

* **Storytelling with Bernie's Narration:** The series combines Ecclestone's narration with animation, print archives, and carefully selected visuals to create a captivating storytelling experience. Pandey emphasizes the importance of active engagement and an inquiring mind to fully appreciate the nuances of Ecclestone's anecdotes.

* **Ecclestone's Personality and Legacy:** Pandey describes Ecclestone as a brilliant and fearless man who made things happen. He acknowledges that while they may not agree on everything, he respects Ecclestone's achievements and his contributions to Formula One.

* **Pandey's Journey to Formula One Storytelling:** Pandey shares his unconventional path from being a medical student to becoming a Formula One storyteller. He credits his passion for the sport and his ability to visualize and hear characters' dialogues as key factors in his success.

* **Potential for Future Projects:** Pandey expresses interest in creating a podcast or a "vodcast" featuring Ecclestone's long-form narrations accompanied by carefully chosen still images, allowing viewers to analyze and appreciate the stories in a different format.

**Overall Message:**

The "Lucky" documentary series promises to be a captivating and informative exploration of Formula One's history, told through the eyes of Bernie Ecclestone. Pandey's enthusiasm and dedication to the project shine through as he discusses the challenges and opportunities of bringing this story to life. The series aims to provide a deeper understanding of Ecclestone's role in shaping the sport and to offer a fresh perspective on iconic moments and personalities in Formula One history.

[00:00.000 -> 00:21.040] Welcome folks to the InsideLineF1 podcast.
[00:21.040 -> 00:23.800] The season is over, but the action isn't.
[00:23.800 -> 00:28.480] Now here on the InsideLineF1 podcast, we always tend to look at Formula One from a different lens
[00:28.480 -> 00:32.400] altogether. We tend to look at it in a more humorous way, in a more funny, in a
[00:32.400 -> 00:36.200] more nonsensical way which is why we had the parody awards last week folks and if
[00:36.200 -> 00:39.920] you haven't checked that out yet go check it out right now. But the one
[00:39.920 -> 00:42.920] gentleman that we're gonna have with us on the podcast today has a completely
[00:42.920 -> 00:45.000] different perspective to the sport.
[00:45.000 -> 00:54.000] He doesn't, okay, I'm not going to say he doesn't leave you laughing because there are moments where that does come in, but he leaves you bewildered, fascinated that, oh, wow, this is also a way to look at the sport.
[00:54.000 -> 01:06.400] My journey watching his stuff started off with Senna back in the day. And that is one movie at the end where you're just like, wow, I want more even though you know the journey of the man has unfortunately ended, you're just hungry to know more about it.
[01:06.400 -> 01:09.800] That's the kind of work that the man we have today makes.
[01:09.800 -> 01:14.300] There's Senna, there's heroes, there's so many other documentaries in the middle that he's made.
[01:14.300 -> 01:19.400] Folks, we're so grateful to be joined by the Formula One storyteller, Manish Pandey.
[01:19.400 -> 01:22.300] Manish, welcome to the Inside Lineup One podcast.
[01:22.300 -> 01:25.160] I'm still jumping around because as a kid,
[01:25.160 -> 01:26.360] I watched Senna, I was like,
[01:26.360 -> 01:28.640] well, wouldn't it be amazing to discuss Formula One
[01:28.640 -> 01:30.040] with this man right here?
[01:30.040 -> 01:31.880] And luckily, you're just coming up
[01:31.880 -> 01:33.760] with a new series called Lucky.
[01:33.760 -> 01:34.600] Got the link?
[01:34.600 -> 01:35.480] No, let it be, let it stay.
[01:35.480 -> 01:37.480] But it's so amazing to talk to you about that.
[01:37.480 -> 01:39.840] But first I've got to ask you, how are you doing?
[01:39.840 -> 01:41.200] How does it feel to finally sign off
[01:41.200 -> 01:42.600] for the final episode of Lucky?
[01:42.600 -> 01:44.360] With the process of finally getting done?
[01:44.360 -> 01:45.180] We had to go to two different screening rooms, actually. How does it feel to finally sign off for the final episode of Lucky with the process of finally getting done?
[01:45.180 -> 01:51.800] We had to go to two different screening rooms actually, one in Hackney, then we came back
[01:51.800 -> 01:53.760] to Soho.
[01:53.760 -> 01:56.320] So it had a very weird ending.
[01:56.320 -> 02:00.880] We had to say goodbye to episode six and then episode eight because of the way that the
[02:00.880 -> 02:03.120] kind of the machine works.
[02:03.120 -> 02:05.320] And we all looked at each other
[02:05.320 -> 02:07.920] after we'd said goodbye to episode eight.
[02:07.920 -> 02:10.720] And I'd calculated it was three years, one month,
[02:10.720 -> 02:15.320] and 27 days since I'd seen Bernie, and he'd said yes.
[02:15.320 -> 02:19.920] So October the 8th, 2019 was the day I shook Bernie's hand.
[02:19.920 -> 02:23.920] And exactly that period of time later,
[02:23.920 -> 02:25.320] the team, we were just looking at each other.
[02:25.320 -> 02:28.840] And then I said, let's all go and get drunk.
[02:28.840 -> 02:29.840] That's what we did.
[02:31.280 -> 02:33.920] We went to a fantastic bar and restaurant,
[02:33.920 -> 02:36.440] which is around the corner from the edit.
[02:36.440 -> 02:39.240] Very nice lady gave us a table for eight,
[02:39.240 -> 02:41.080] even though there were six of us.
[02:41.080 -> 02:44.440] And it was pink and it was fizzy and it didn't stop.
[02:44.440 -> 02:46.320] And it was great. And there are some hang it didn't stop and it was great and there are some
[02:46.320 -> 02:52.000] hangovers in life which you should savor. I haven't had a decent hangover in a long time
[02:52.000 -> 02:57.200] so it's a lovely feeling waking up this morning. I hope you remember last night, I mean that's
[02:57.200 -> 03:02.480] great that you actually remember some events of it which is incredible but I love the fact Manish
[03:02.480 -> 03:05.000] that you've also tapped the history of Formula One.
[03:05.000 -> 03:08.000] Because when I watched the teaser for this one, I was like, wow, great.
[03:08.000 -> 03:14.000] If trying to survive is the introductory for new fans, this feels like something to drive them deeper into the sport.
[03:14.000 -> 03:22.000] And maybe something for, let's say, fans like myself who have been watching for so long and want to know the backstory of those moments in time.
[03:22.000 -> 03:24.000] So what was the whole ideation process like?
[03:24.000 -> 03:27.320] How did you decide that, okay, this is what we're going to do?
[03:27.320 -> 03:29.320] And what is lucky in your own words?
[03:29.320 -> 03:32.080] A recollection of Formula One narrated by Bernie?
[03:32.080 -> 03:34.560] Or just what is it according to you?
[03:34.560 -> 03:36.520] Well, I think Bernie actually summed it up best.
[03:36.520 -> 03:39.320] He said that what we're going to do
[03:39.320 -> 03:41.440] is it's going to be me telling the story of Formula
[03:41.440 -> 03:43.160] One and how it happened.
[03:43.160 -> 03:44.480] And that's it.
[03:44.480 -> 03:45.920] And he's a master at
[03:45.920 -> 03:54.720] sort of storytelling too. I've got to take you back to the summer really of 2019. So before
[03:54.720 -> 04:00.480] the pandemic, we just finished Heroes and we had a premiere for it in London and both Bernie and
[04:00.480 -> 04:05.520] Jean-Todd came and it was very, very good that they both came in.
[04:12.640 -> 04:17.760] I got to spend a bit of time with each of them before and afterwards. I've always had a really good relationship with Bernie ever since Senna. We always stayed in touch. We never...
[04:19.280 -> 04:24.080] He's not... Sorry, there's a cuckoo clock going off in the background.
[04:24.320 -> 04:25.320] Sorry, there's a cuckoo clock going off in the background. I just...
[04:25.320 -> 04:29.720] I'm from Switzerland, apologies.
[04:29.720 -> 04:38.440] So we'd always stayed in touch and that summer, I thought I really, really want to tell Bernie's
[04:38.440 -> 04:39.440] story.
[04:39.440 -> 04:46.680] It was actually halfway through the third season post- in Formula One. And with Bernie,
[04:46.680 -> 04:52.120] you don't approach him with half an idea. Okay, his time is too busy. He's too smart.
[04:54.040 -> 04:58.720] If you want a decision, go in with a proper proposition. So I spent the summer thinking,
[04:58.720 -> 05:09.600] well, look, what would it really be? Is it a movie? And I thought, no. No, he was pushing 90, 89. We're not going to get that
[05:09.600 -> 05:14.800] until 100 minutes. And there are no obvious three acts anyway, in my opinion. Then I thought,
[05:14.800 -> 05:31.400] okay, if it's a multi-parter, what do I want from that? And that's always got to be the kind of big question, partly as a fanboy and partly as a filmmaker, TV maker. And I thought, do you know what I would love?
[05:31.400 -> 05:37.680] I'd just love to know how this circus came into being because it all looks so
[05:37.680 -> 05:43.000] effortless, it all just works and you're just used to seeing
[05:43.000 -> 05:45.440] yet another world leader, another world champion.
[05:47.840 -> 05:54.800] So I thought, first of all, he's got the kind of authority where I don't think we should have
[05:54.800 -> 06:02.720] multiple voices. So we made one big decision, which was this would be only Bernie narrating,
[06:02.720 -> 06:06.320] no one else. So if you're looking for multiple talking heads
[06:06.320 -> 06:10.280] and him saying something and then cut to Flavio
[06:10.280 -> 06:13.400] saying something, then cut to Dave Richard saying something,
[06:13.400 -> 06:17.140] this isn't the series that does that.
[06:17.140 -> 06:18.440] So when I knew it was him,
[06:18.440 -> 06:21.360] then the next bit was really obvious,
[06:21.360 -> 06:25.920] which was, you know, Bernie has this amazing white hair, white goatee,
[06:25.920 -> 06:27.960] always wears a white shirt.
[06:27.960 -> 06:29.120] And then he's tanned.
[06:29.120 -> 06:32.280] He spent time in Ibiza, in Switzerland, in Brazil.
[06:32.280 -> 06:35.200] He's got the beautiful, very even tan, and very blue eyes.
[06:35.200 -> 06:37.040] And I thought, you know what we've got to do?
[06:37.040 -> 06:38.960] We've got to shoot him on a white background.
[06:38.960 -> 06:42.680] We have to shoot him so he looks like he's speaking to you
[06:42.680 -> 06:43.680] from another world.
[06:43.680 -> 06:52.000] I mean, he looks like God, right? That's what he looks like. He looks like God. And so that was the next part to sort of set that up.
[06:52.000 -> 06:58.080] And then I thought to myself, I think this lends itself to be eight parts. And I kind of worked out
[06:58.080 -> 07:05.000] what each part would be. And some of them are, I mean, episode eight begins in 2005
[07:05.860 -> 07:08.240] and it ends in 2016.
[07:08.240 -> 07:12.720] So it's an episode which actually spans 12 seasons.
[07:12.720 -> 07:17.720] So it's a long time, but the key moments in his life
[07:19.280 -> 07:21.240] are what drive it, not the number of years.
[07:21.240 -> 07:23.260] On the other hand, if you look at episode four,
[07:23.260 -> 07:25.200] it's just 81, 82, 83. It's just of years. On the other hand, if you look at episode four, it's just 81, 82, 83.
[07:25.200 -> 07:33.200] It's just three years. So you've got this really compact chunk of storytelling because what you
[07:33.200 -> 07:47.120] should do as a good writer, as a good filmmaker is find that tightest bit of story arc. And what you have in 81, 82, 83 is a man who,
[07:47.120 -> 07:50.880] his team's working and they beat the French.
[07:50.880 -> 07:54.120] And now he really is running Formula One the way he wants,
[07:54.120 -> 07:56.280] but then they obviously will just turn on each other
[07:56.280 -> 07:59.020] because that's how it works in Formula One, right?
[07:59.020 -> 08:00.420] That's kind of how it works.
[08:00.420 -> 08:03.960] It's all about ultra competition.
[08:03.960 -> 08:08.680] And that's what I think unconsciously we love about it. And I think that is
[08:08.680 -> 08:12.120] effectively what he tells you over eight episodes. I mean, the
[08:12.120 -> 08:19.840] story begins at Silverstone in 1950. And he was there. He was
[08:19.840 -> 08:28.000] a fan. I mean, you can't ask for more than that. He slept in his car with his dad because there
[08:28.000 -> 08:34.600] were no hotels. So this is a young fan who goes in his description of the race. We recorded this
[08:34.600 -> 08:39.640] beautiful description of the race. I had goosebumps when we found the archive. His description,
[08:39.640 -> 08:45.640] it was uncanny. And when you watch that first episode, you'll think I scripted it.
[08:45.640 -> 08:47.500] I absolutely didn't.
[08:47.500 -> 08:48.600] It's just uncanny.
[08:48.600 -> 08:50.840] He says the king and the queen were there.
[08:50.840 -> 08:53.440] The old, old king and the queen,
[08:53.440 -> 08:56.240] Queen Elizabeth is there as a princess.
[08:56.240 -> 08:57.680] You know, and this is the whole point.
[08:57.680 -> 08:59.360] It's just, it is the most,
[08:59.360 -> 09:01.920] it's the most beautiful evocative story.
[09:01.920 -> 09:06.480] And you see this young man who's a fan who becomes a driver manager
[09:07.120 -> 09:12.000] twice and he gets bitten very, very hard. And the story actually in episode one ends
[09:13.440 -> 09:19.520] in 1970. I won't tell you what happened. And there's a moment of real reflection for Bernie.
[09:19.520 -> 09:26.400] Does he carry on in Formula One or does he walk away? Because it's that kind of time, it's that kind of journey
[09:26.400 -> 09:34.160] and he chooses to stay. And then you see him, those early days at Brabham, those early relationships
[09:34.160 -> 09:40.720] with the founding fathers, if you like, of modern Formula One, Frank Williams, Teddy Mair, predating
[09:40.720 -> 09:47.280] Ron Dennis, Colin Chapman, the God they all believed in really, Ken Tyrell, Max Mosley,
[09:47.280 -> 09:52.720] and sitting there just at the edge of the circle, Zenzo Ferrari, and then his
[09:52.720 -> 09:59.040] protégé, Luca Montezemolo. So it begins with these incredible meetings at Heathrow Airport,
[09:59.040 -> 10:07.200] where they forge the future of the sport that we love. And one other thing became very, very clear was I wanted,
[10:07.200 -> 10:09.360] if I could have filmed this, we would
[10:09.360 -> 10:10.560] have filmed those meetings.
[10:10.560 -> 10:12.480] But there was no reality in those days.
[10:12.480 -> 10:13.960] No cameras were allowed in.
[10:13.960 -> 10:16.800] So we actually approached some animation companies.
[10:16.800 -> 10:18.880] And we've actually animated those meetings
[10:18.880 -> 10:21.640] in a manga style, narrated by Bernie.
[10:21.640 -> 10:27.040] So we take you into those meetings. and they pay off right at the end.
[10:27.040 -> 10:32.960] In episode eight, they pay off in a very emotional way, which again, I won't ruin for you. So I had
[10:32.960 -> 10:43.760] all of these ideas. I sent Bernie's assistants an email on a Friday at 10 to 5 and at 5 o'clock,
[10:43.760 -> 10:45.700] they pinged back and said, yeah, he's free Monday or
[10:45.700 -> 10:51.820] Tuesday. I had a clinic on Monday morning. I trained as a doctor, so I was still doing a day
[10:51.820 -> 11:01.600] a week. So I made it Tuesday morning and it was great. I went to see him at 11 and I got to the
[11:01.600 -> 11:05.080] point quickly. I said, look, I want to do this show. It's going to be about you.
[11:05.080 -> 11:07.560] The whole thing, start at the beginning, finish now.
[11:07.560 -> 11:09.800] No, nothing off topic.
[11:09.800 -> 11:11.720] You've got to just talk about everything.
[11:11.720 -> 11:13.200] Go for it.
[11:13.200 -> 11:14.360] No other voices.
[11:14.360 -> 11:15.920] I'll illustrate it with archive.
[11:15.920 -> 11:18.640] Got to do a big Formula One deal, but we'll get on with that.
[11:18.640 -> 11:19.400] What do you think?
[11:19.400 -> 11:23.640] And he looked at me, and he has this way of calculating as he looks at you.
[11:23.640 -> 11:24.920] You can see it.
[11:24.920 -> 11:25.600] Held out his hands,
[11:25.600 -> 11:28.800] we shook hands. He said, if you're going to do it, it'll be good, won't it? And I said, I'll try.
[11:29.440 -> 11:35.680] And that was it. We shook hands. And when you shake hands with him, it's a deal. That's the
[11:35.680 -> 11:40.080] one thing you know about him. Same with Senna. You shake hands with him and you have a deal.
[11:40.080 -> 11:48.120] And unfortunately, COVID got in the way. So we all suffered that very dark time that basically took
[11:48.120 -> 11:50.360] a year out of all of our lives.
[11:50.360 -> 11:53.520] Bernie went to Brazil.
[11:53.520 -> 11:56.440] He moved back to Switzerland in the summer of 2020
[11:56.440 -> 11:59.600] because I think the pandemic had really hit Brazil very hard.
[11:59.600 -> 12:02.680] But he had another little sort of joyous secret, of course.
[12:02.680 -> 12:04.000] His wife was very pregnant.
[12:04.000 -> 12:06.000] So Ace was born in Switzerland
[12:06.560 -> 12:13.520] and then in September, he gave me a call and said, okay, let's do it. So that's what happened.
[12:13.520 -> 12:19.280] End of September, I went off. There were no vaccines at the time. So tests were very expensive.
[12:19.280 -> 12:24.960] So I decamped. I ended up being in Stade for a month. I self-isolated for 10 days and we'd shoot
[12:22.880 -> 12:25.840] I ended up being in Stade for a month. I self-isolated for 10 days and we'd shoot
[12:25.840 -> 12:27.080] for an hour and a half in the morning,
[12:27.080 -> 12:28.880] hour and a half in the evening.
[12:28.880 -> 12:30.840] And I have to say, I loved it.
[12:30.840 -> 12:34.680] I loved every moment of it because there he was
[12:34.680 -> 12:36.840] answering all of those questions.
[12:36.840 -> 12:39.560] And actually, you know, he's brilliant sense of humor.
[12:39.560 -> 12:43.080] So dry, you know, and it's all there
[12:43.080 -> 12:44.760] if you can be bothered to listen.
[12:44.760 -> 12:46.880] And, you know, and you can be bothered to listen. And we could be bothered to listen.
[12:46.880 -> 12:53.200] And I wouldn't say that we have a friendship. He has friends, he has family. But I'd say that
[12:53.840 -> 13:00.400] there is some closeness there for sure. I speak to him and it's great. I got to meet and know
[13:00.400 -> 13:06.000] the man who created the thing, apart from my family and my dog I love the most in the world.
[13:06.000 -> 13:16.840] And as you said, actually, you said that you can create lots of contemporary shows in Formula One
[13:16.840 -> 13:24.200] and that will give you an absolute appreciation for the sport as it is now. But I would argue
[13:24.200 -> 13:26.480] it's a little bit like using a revision guide.
[13:26.960 -> 13:29.320] There's nothing, you know, before your exams,
[13:29.320 -> 13:31.680] but there's nothing like going back to class
[13:32.200 -> 13:34.320] and learning something from first principles,
[13:34.320 -> 13:37.280] because when you join those dots up, that's when you have,
[13:37.800 -> 13:40.360] hopefully, a fantastic fan base.
[13:40.360 -> 13:43.720] The fans are going to go, hey, you know what you remind me of?
[13:43.720 -> 13:45.480] You remind me of Elio De Angelis.
[13:45.480 -> 13:46.320] Wait a minute.
[13:46.320 -> 13:48.640] I've seen this car before.
[13:48.640 -> 13:49.720] Oh, come on.
[13:49.720 -> 13:50.760] I've seen that spot.
[13:50.760 -> 13:51.520] You know what I mean?
[13:51.520 -> 13:54.320] It's like when you connect that deeper structure
[13:54.320 -> 13:57.760] and you realize there's really nothing new in the world,
[13:57.760 -> 14:01.280] I think that's when you get real engagement.
[14:01.280 -> 14:08.800] And I love that because my personal black hole was the... I was pretty good up to 1958.
[14:08.800 -> 14:15.040] I used to be a bit rubbish at 60. I would say 1960 to 1973 were my black holes.
[14:15.920 -> 14:22.160] That's some of the best storytelling Bernie does. So I got to scratch an itch as well,
[14:22.800 -> 14:31.400] educate myself too. Hang on, I have so many questions to ask Manish. I'm going to start off with this one. It's
[14:31.400 -> 14:36.920] almost, correct me if I'm wrong here, it's almost like you've made something to satisfy
[14:36.920 -> 14:41.200] your own curiosity and you represent such a big part of the Formula One fan base as
[14:41.200 -> 14:45.280] well. I wouldn't call us the oldies but those who've
[14:45.280 -> 14:49.520] just watched it for a long time and so curious about the past because the past of Formula One
[14:49.520 -> 14:55.360] has so many fun stories like I love that you have been able to capture let's say the interactions
[14:55.360 -> 14:59.200] of Bernie and Nikki Lauda, Bernie and Jochen Rindt. I've seen clips on that on Twitter and
[14:59.200 -> 15:07.160] I'm so excited for that about how Bernie controlled power in Formula One. That is also how he got to it in the first place.
[15:07.160 -> 15:10.880] Out of all these brilliant stories that you've got,
[15:10.880 -> 15:12.520] which one excites you the most?
[15:12.520 -> 15:15.280] Because you've been following the sport for just so long,
[15:15.280 -> 15:16.840] and there must be some curiosity, right?
[15:16.840 -> 15:19.040] OK, this is the one I'd love to hear from Bernie.
[15:19.040 -> 15:21.000] Which one was that for you?
[15:21.000 -> 15:24.200] I mean, actually, if I can, there are two key moments.
[15:24.200 -> 15:30.800] There's a meeting that I think at which he really genuinely arrived in Formula 1 was
[15:30.800 -> 15:34.120] in South Africa in 1972.
[15:34.120 -> 15:40.120] He sat down with the team bosses and said, we need to turn this into a business.
[15:40.120 -> 15:43.060] And they all turned around and said, no.
[15:43.060 -> 15:45.280] You want to turn it into a business, you turn it into a
[15:45.280 -> 15:53.600] business. Okay, we are racing people. This is what we do. That was it. That was the moment where there
[15:53.600 -> 16:00.320] was a basic divergence between Bernie Eccleston, even though he owned Brabham, and all the others
[16:00.320 -> 16:09.440] I've already mentioned. That's the moment Formula One, in my mind, modern Formula One was born at that meeting. And I remember there were some apocryphal stories about
[16:09.440 -> 16:14.400] it saying that Bernie walked around, he put an envelope down and the team owners opened it. And
[16:14.400 -> 16:21.600] I said, is that what happened? He said, no, that's total bollocks. I just couldn't stop laughing.
[16:21.600 -> 16:25.040] He said, this is the problem. People glamorize stuff.
[16:25.040 -> 16:27.280] He said, it's much more straightforward than that.
[16:27.280 -> 16:29.520] Life is, at times, a little bit more boring than that.
[16:29.520 -> 16:31.960] You come up with a proposal, people say no.
[16:31.960 -> 16:32.960] And that's what they did.
[16:32.960 -> 16:34.600] But what they did was effectively
[16:34.600 -> 16:38.160] empower him to transform the sport.
[16:38.160 -> 16:40.800] And while they were very, very concerned with making ends
[16:40.800 -> 16:43.160] meet, how do I get to the next Grand Prix,
[16:43.160 -> 16:45.880] my driver's leaving me, my sponsor's leaving me.
[16:45.880 -> 16:47.680] He was able to deal with all of that
[16:47.680 -> 16:49.640] and also create the sport around it.
[16:49.640 -> 16:51.000] So that was the first.
[16:51.000 -> 16:52.640] It was brilliant hearing it from him.
[16:52.640 -> 16:54.960] And it's one of my favorite animations
[16:54.960 -> 16:58.960] as well, because you really feel, I think,
[16:58.960 -> 17:01.480] it's a little bit tongue in cheek too, the way
[17:01.480 -> 17:03.240] that we've set up the room.
[17:03.240 -> 17:11.720] But the second thing was just hearing his accounts of May 1st, 1994.
[17:12.440 -> 17:15.720] I've read so many accounts of that day.
[17:15.760 -> 17:19.780] I've read so many accounts of what Bernie is said to have said on that day,
[17:19.780 -> 17:21.360] said to have done on that day.
[17:21.680 -> 17:25.720] But to ask him about probably the most traumatic day,
[17:31.360 -> 17:31.400] definitely in any sporting context of my life, it was horrible.
[17:32.240 -> 17:32.600] I loved Senna.
[17:34.080 -> 17:34.680] It was a horrible day.
[17:39.880 -> 17:39.920] And I got to ask Bernie, tell me what happened.
[17:40.920 -> 17:41.000] What were you doing?
[17:42.200 -> 17:42.520] How did it unfold?
[17:44.640 -> 17:45.060] And he tells you, and he tells you straight.
[17:45.060 -> 17:50.060] And it's very sort of heartbreaking, his explanation.
[17:51.960 -> 17:56.040] Then the aftermath going to Sao Paulo,
[17:56.040 -> 17:57.880] we found some archive.
[17:57.880 -> 18:02.880] And Bernie, he doesn't shirk from things
[18:03.840 -> 18:07.800] because they're difficult to say. He says,
[18:08.080 -> 18:13.760] I wasn't popular with the family. But he also is a human being. He understands that in that
[18:13.760 -> 18:17.680] moment, why would he be? They're looking for someone to blame. Blame the man who put the
[18:17.680 -> 18:28.840] circus together. So those for me are two very men. And then the bit that I defy anyone not to absolutely have a massive lump in their throat
[18:28.840 -> 18:33.440] about is hearing him his last day at work.
[18:33.440 -> 18:36.520] You know, it's just an unbelievable...
[18:36.520 -> 18:39.640] Because he's so English, he tells it so straight.
[18:39.640 -> 18:43.260] There's no attempt to cajole sympathy.
[18:43.260 -> 18:44.640] There's no rolling of eyes.
[18:44.640 -> 18:45.380] He's so
[18:45.380 -> 18:50.920] straight, so correct, so British, you know, it kills you, kills me.
[18:50.920 -> 18:56.440] You've sold me on, Manish, already. You've already sold me on. I can't wait. But it just
[18:56.440 -> 18:59.920] gets me curious, if these are so many stories that you've managed to get in,
[18:59.920 -> 19:05.200] was there any one story that you had to force out? Because in the middle, right?
[19:05.200 -> 19:09.000] Because 2005, 2016, no, there's not one?
[19:09.000 -> 19:10.960] Not one, loads and loads and loads.
[19:10.960 -> 19:12.120] I mean, the thing, you know,
[19:12.120 -> 19:14.320] we've got eight times 47 minutes, okay?
[19:14.320 -> 19:15.400] We've got lots of archive.
[19:15.400 -> 19:17.720] We've got to get races in, other personalities in.
[19:17.720 -> 19:21.600] So can we tell every story, you know?
[19:21.600 -> 19:24.240] No, that's what's, it is a bit frustrating
[19:24.240 -> 19:25.000] that some of them
[19:25.000 -> 19:28.000] kind of got left behind, but it was much the same with Senna.
[19:28.000 -> 19:32.000] I think we've picked the stories that keep the narrative going
[19:32.000 -> 19:35.000] and you get a sense of development,
[19:35.000 -> 19:39.000] not just of Bernie's character and a sense of his personal life,
[19:39.000 -> 19:41.000] but of these cohorts.
[19:41.000 -> 19:45.440] I don't think there's a major driver we've left out.
[19:45.440 -> 19:48.240] And it's not just a question of lip service.
[19:48.240 -> 19:50.960] So just going, oh, he did seven fastest laps.
[19:50.960 -> 19:52.000] We don't do it like that.
[19:52.000 -> 19:55.040] We try to tell the stories of these drivers
[19:55.040 -> 19:57.880] in a very character-driven way.
[19:57.880 -> 20:00.760] And it's Bernie's perception of that character.
[20:00.760 -> 20:04.200] So what you'll find is in the first four episodes,
[20:04.200 -> 20:05.680] it's got a very on-track feel
[20:05.680 -> 20:09.360] because Bernie's a team owner. Bernie was a manager. Bernie actually used to be able to drive
[20:09.360 -> 20:15.840] a car. He was a racing driver. He had a Cooper 500. We actually found color archive of him driving
[20:15.840 -> 20:23.600] that car. So you'll see it. But then as Bernie becomes this impresario, it's got a slightly less
[20:23.600 -> 20:25.480] trackside feel. It's got a
[20:25.480 -> 20:30.120] feel of, ah, he's a man now, he's now starting to really conduct the orchestra.
[20:30.120 -> 20:33.720] So you're maybe a little less forensic on what's going on on the ground, but a
[20:33.720 -> 20:37.520] little bit more like, what would the empresario be seeing here? What would he
[20:37.520 -> 20:43.360] be thinking here? So when you see, I was explaining earlier, there's a
[20:43.360 -> 20:46.180] kind of, you know, in life there's a kind of, you know, in life, there's a kind of magic moment sometimes,
[20:46.180 -> 20:48.800] which if you grab, makes you.
[20:48.800 -> 20:53.040] And in my opinion, that was, you'll see it in episode six.
[20:53.040 -> 20:58.040] By episode six, episode six starts in 1988
[20:58.240 -> 21:00.200] and it finishes in 94.
[21:00.200 -> 21:02.160] And the reason why I think it's a really important episode
[21:02.160 -> 21:06.320] is because if I can liken it to a man who
[21:06.320 -> 21:13.040] owns a beautiful theatre, he finally pays off the debt. He now owns the theatre. He decorates it
[21:13.040 -> 21:18.560] with beautiful gilt, velvet curtains, the chairs are perfect, the food is perfect, the wine is
[21:18.560 -> 21:24.960] perfect, the ice cream store is perfect. And then guess what happens? John Gielgud, Vanessa Redgrave,
[21:20.500 -> 21:22.400] Perfect. And then guess what happens?
[21:22.400 -> 21:28.560] John Gilgud, Vanessa Redgrave, Laurence Olivier,
[21:28.560 -> 21:31.960] Ralph Richardson, the greatest English stage actors,
[21:31.960 -> 21:34.480] all appear at the same time.
[21:34.480 -> 21:35.520] They just happen to work.
[21:35.520 -> 21:38.600] So not only does he have the theater, he has the actors.
[21:38.600 -> 21:42.720] So he has Senna, he has Prost, he has Mansell, he has Piquet.
[21:42.720 -> 21:44.480] And he even has the tail end of Lauda.
[21:44.480 -> 21:46.480] So he's got the show
[21:46.480 -> 21:53.440] and now he's got the stars. And what you realise is it's in that moment that he makes that, hey,
[21:53.440 -> 21:58.720] he really pushes television, onboard cameras suddenly appear, we're suddenly watching it in
[21:58.720 -> 22:02.960] a very visceral way. And because of Senna and Prost, and because of Mansell and Piquet's
[22:02.960 -> 22:05.760] characters, you're feeling something.
[22:05.760 -> 22:07.920] It's not what you're seeing on track.
[22:07.920 -> 22:11.120] You're constantly feeling something, and he knows it.
[22:11.120 -> 22:12.000] And he knows it.
[22:12.000 -> 22:14.280] And that's the moment, as I said,
[22:14.280 -> 22:17.920] 1972 South Africa is the moment
[22:17.920 -> 22:19.800] in the way modern Formula One was born.
[22:19.800 -> 22:24.360] For me, this period is directly linked
[22:24.360 -> 22:28.000] to what we're watching now, you know, to what we see.
[22:28.000 -> 22:31.480] And he saw it, and he saw it way in advance.
[22:31.480 -> 22:36.360] Wow, but that gets me sort of conflicted on the name.
[22:36.360 -> 22:37.680] Why lucky then?
[22:37.680 -> 22:42.200] Because that way we can all look at Bernie's vision about what he wanted to achieve, though
[22:42.200 -> 22:45.560] he all, he got all the teams together and then made Formula One
[22:45.560 -> 22:47.320] something that he wrote with an iron fist.
[22:47.320 -> 22:48.400] But then why Lucky?
[22:48.400 -> 22:49.960] What does that stand for in that case?
[22:49.960 -> 22:52.160] It's a very, very tongue-in-cheek title.
[22:52.160 -> 22:54.640] And it's based on that first meeting I had with him
[22:54.640 -> 22:58.760] on October the 8th, 2019.
[22:58.760 -> 23:02.640] I asked him that naive question that everybody asked him.
[23:02.640 -> 23:04.840] I said, so how did you do it?
[23:04.840 -> 23:07.760] And he said, I never planned anything in my life.
[23:07.760 -> 23:11.440] And, you know, this is a bit of a spoiler actually, but you're right.
[23:12.680 -> 23:16.000] He says he doesn't plan anything in his life.
[23:16.000 -> 23:19.280] He's very modest about that. And he basically said, I was lucky.
[23:19.720 -> 23:21.800] And I couldn't get that out of my head.
[23:21.800 -> 23:26.480] Like this guy, he has one working eye, was educated till he was 15.
[23:26.480 -> 23:27.640] He's working class.
[23:27.640 -> 23:28.960] He grew up in the war.
[23:28.960 -> 23:31.400] Can you spot any luck in any of this?
[23:31.400 -> 23:37.440] I mean, I just, you know, not one ounce of luck.
[23:37.440 -> 23:40.760] And I just, I love the fact that he said he was lucky,
[23:40.760 -> 23:42.480] you know, because he's in a way too modest
[23:42.480 -> 23:43.720] to blow his own trumpet.
[23:43.720 -> 23:46.680] But also, it's a great way of closing me down, isn't it?
[23:46.680 -> 23:47.520] It's great.
[23:47.520 -> 23:48.360] I was lucky.
[23:48.360 -> 23:50.120] Where are you going to go from there?
[23:52.240 -> 23:55.760] That is so unapologetically Bernie, isn't it?
[23:55.760 -> 23:58.400] Yes, yes, yes.
[23:58.400 -> 24:00.720] In the opening title sequence, you can see
[24:00.720 -> 24:01.800] all of these characters,
[24:01.800 -> 24:05.360] but all the characters behind him, all become Bernie.
[24:09.680 -> 24:16.160] And that's kind of the metaphor, you know, for that, that, that cut. That's a whole point. He's directing everything. And then when he turns around, you know, he is everything. And in big,
[24:16.800 -> 24:19.200] sort of ironic words, I was lucky.
[24:21.920 -> 24:29.840] Oh my goodness. Which, so you've, you've got Bernie convinced, you were lucky enough to get him
[24:29.840 -> 24:34.000] to talk to you in that place as well which is also another play because it's kind of
[24:34.000 -> 24:35.480] a lucky deal that Bernie is on.
[24:35.480 -> 24:42.680] But Bernie is Bernie, he has, I can't call it tantrums but he has Bernie-isms if that
[24:42.680 -> 24:47.120] makes sense, I mean quirks that he's very particular about things I've heard.
[24:47.120 -> 24:48.520] Just in that sense, right?
[24:48.520 -> 24:52.320] You said you had to fly out all the way to Switzerland, say 10 days quarantine, just
[24:52.320 -> 24:57.360] to get a glimpse of this man talking about the history of Formula One.
[24:57.360 -> 24:59.720] And then once you had him on, what was it like?
[24:59.720 -> 25:04.000] Was it ever, because you mentioned he's very straightforward, but what is it like otherwise?
[25:04.000 -> 25:08.040] Is he, does he not fear things at all in the way of what to say?
[25:08.040 -> 25:13.240] Why would he be doing it in a way? You know, people have asked me this and I
[25:13.240 -> 25:16.800] think, you know, the simple answer is legacy. I think the more subtle answer is, I think
[25:16.800 -> 25:20.280] he's also doing it for his son, you know, and I think that's a good reason to tell
[25:20.280 -> 25:26.260] your story. I think it's a wonderful thing. When you're a father, it changes.
[25:26.260 -> 25:27.540] I think it changes everything.
[25:27.540 -> 25:32.480] I think what I've seen of him, I've got to know him a little
[25:32.480 -> 25:38.060] bit, away from the camera too, is he's almost monastic.
[25:38.060 -> 25:40.020] People find that quite difficult to understand,
[25:40.020 -> 25:43.060] but he's in some ways so simple.
[25:43.060 -> 25:44.500] I really love it.
[25:44.500 -> 25:48.820] Food does not fly from Maxine to his house every day.
[25:48.820 -> 25:51.060] And he doesn't have a three-star Michelin chef doing it.
[25:51.060 -> 25:53.820] I mean, he can eat at places like that if he wants to.
[25:53.820 -> 25:55.900] But he always makes me smile because he says things
[25:55.900 -> 25:58.820] like, do you want a drink?
[25:58.820 -> 26:01.020] If we were having lunch, and I'd always
[26:01.020 -> 26:03.140] go, no, because I just can't drink during the day,
[26:03.140 -> 26:06.240] except for yesterday, obviously.
[26:06.240 -> 26:08.160] But it's very simple.
[26:08.160 -> 26:12.840] If he's going to have a drink, he'll have maybe half a beer.
[26:12.840 -> 26:16.600] There's an essential simplicity and straightforwardness
[26:16.600 -> 26:20.120] to him, which I really like, which I found unexpected.
[26:20.120 -> 26:23.840] And he treats people as he finds them.
[26:23.840 -> 26:25.600] You want to be a smart-ass, okay?
[26:25.600 -> 26:28.880] You're being a smart-ass with exactly the wrong human being, okay?
[26:28.880 -> 26:30.080] Because he will just...
[26:30.080 -> 26:31.600] He's so intelligent.
[26:31.600 -> 26:32.400] It's very difficult.
[26:32.400 -> 26:36.400] I find it quite difficult to articulate how brilliant he is.
[26:36.400 -> 26:39.920] I got to know Professor Sid Watkins very well
[26:39.920 -> 26:40.960] during the making of Senna.
[26:40.960 -> 26:41.920] I mean, very well.
[26:41.920 -> 26:43.600] I mean, we really became friends
[26:43.600 -> 26:48.580] and it was a bad day in my life when he died.
[26:48.580 -> 26:51.400] But we would talk a lot, doctor to doctor.
[26:51.400 -> 26:53.980] He used to introduce me as a failed neurosurgeon
[26:53.980 -> 26:56.020] because he thinks orthopedics is failed.
[26:56.020 -> 26:57.380] You know, orthopedics is what you
[26:57.380 -> 27:00.860] do to take the bit of bone out so you can do your actual work.
[27:00.860 -> 27:07.000] So he was a really lovely guy, shared the same humor with Bernie and they knew each other well.
[27:07.000 -> 27:18.000] And he said, he used to say to me, in an almost real way, I think he's got a third lobe, brain lobe.
[27:18.000 -> 27:22.000] His apprehension is so clever.
[27:22.000 -> 27:26.840] He's got this, half of his brain is just this mathematical machine.
[27:26.840 -> 27:29.840] And then the other half is just amazing with people,
[27:29.840 -> 27:33.200] with dates, with memories, with recollections.
[27:33.200 -> 27:37.120] Just, it's such a powerful combination.
[27:37.120 -> 27:40.160] So if you like, he's worked out all the odds
[27:40.160 -> 27:41.560] before he's met you, then he meets you
[27:41.560 -> 27:42.920] and then works you out.
[27:42.920 -> 27:50.720] So there's a mathematical side and a human side to it. And if you're trying to achieve something, having both of those at your fingertips,
[27:51.440 -> 27:57.280] it's incredible. And fundamentally, I think in some ways, he's very shy. In other ways,
[27:57.280 -> 28:03.120] I think he really likes people. He really does like people. He just doesn't like sycophants.
[28:03.120 -> 28:06.480] He really doesn't suffer fools. If you don't know,
[28:06.480 -> 28:12.000] he was constantly testing me. I'll give you a really simple example. At the height of the
[28:12.000 -> 28:20.800] FISA-FOCA war, beginning of 81, so before the Marinello-Modena agreement, before the Concord
[28:20.800 -> 28:26.000] agreement, the teams, Bernie, bracket, made a decision they would race in South
[28:26.000 -> 28:34.240] Africa. They said they'd do that. Goodyear withdrew. I just needed him to tell me the story,
[28:34.240 -> 28:40.320] why they went, what was that about? He said, oh, did we race in South Africa? I can't remember.
[28:40.320 -> 28:50.280] I said, you did? He said, we had a technical problem, didn't we? I just can't remember what it was. And I said, yeah, the technical problem was you didn't have tires. He said,
[28:50.280 -> 28:57.760] oh, how do we get around that? And I said, you owned a company which had tires. He said,
[28:57.760 -> 29:02.280] what were they? And I said, Avon tires. And then he went, oh yeah, it's come back to me.
[29:02.280 -> 29:06.640] And he was testing me, right? He was not going to tell me that story
[29:06.640 -> 29:09.200] if I didn't know what the hell I was talking about.
[29:09.200 -> 29:11.400] But because I knew what I was talking about,
[29:11.400 -> 29:12.440] he told the story.
[29:12.440 -> 29:13.800] And it's a great story.
[29:13.800 -> 29:15.100] Why is that story relevant?
[29:15.100 -> 29:16.880] It's not as nerdy as it sounds.
[29:16.880 -> 29:19.440] By the way, loads of chunks of what I've just said
[29:19.440 -> 29:22.600] aren't in the, they're not in the,
[29:22.600 -> 29:24.100] you don't need to know that.
[29:24.100 -> 29:26.840] What you need to know is that he was demonstrating
[29:26.840 -> 29:33.480] something very straightforward. The governing body can set the rules. The governing body can
[29:33.480 -> 29:38.400] measure how long your car is, how high it is, what your tyre pressure is. The governing body can't put
[29:38.400 -> 29:44.560] a race on. And that's what he was demonstrating. Do you know what? You need jumbo jets to put cars
[29:44.560 -> 29:45.340] on. So have you got the phone number You need jumbo jets to put cars on.
[29:45.340 -> 29:48.280] So have you got the phone number of a jumbo jet company?
[29:48.280 -> 29:50.180] How do you get the cars from the jumbo jet
[29:50.180 -> 29:51.720] at the other end to the circuit?
[29:51.720 -> 29:53.520] We got the keys to the circuit.
[29:53.520 -> 29:55.540] How do you get the circuit paid for?
[29:55.540 -> 29:56.820] How do you do safety?
[29:56.820 -> 30:00.860] What he was demonstrating was they made the rules,
[30:00.860 -> 30:03.080] but he made the racing.
[30:03.080 -> 30:04.600] And once he made that statement,
[30:04.600 -> 30:07.000] it was pretty clear there was gonna to be peace on his terms.
[30:07.000 -> 30:09.000] And that's who you're dealing with.
[30:09.000 -> 30:15.000] He's just a brilliant man, not scared of a fight at all.
[30:15.000 -> 30:18.000] Not scared, not intimidated by anything.
[30:18.000 -> 30:21.000] And he is fearless. He's a fearless man.
[30:21.000 -> 30:25.080] Were you somewhat scared in the first interaction
[30:25.280 -> 30:27.000] when you first met him? Why weren't you the first to meet him?
[30:27.000 -> 30:28.600] Because it must have been before.
[30:29.320 -> 30:30.080] I am scared now.
[30:32.080 -> 30:33.520] Prepare before meeting Bernie.
[30:35.480 -> 30:38.160] You have to pinch yourself just because people are nice to you.
[30:38.480 -> 30:41.480] Right? They give you, what, Bernie's now 92. What's the most
[30:41.480 -> 30:45.680] valuable commodity he has? What do you think it is? Yeah, it's
[30:45.680 -> 30:46.680] his time.
[30:46.680 -> 30:47.680] It's his time, yeah.
[30:47.680 -> 30:54.200] Yeah, he's given me eight weeks of his life. I wouldn't trade that for $10 billion. I mean,
[30:54.200 -> 30:59.160] this is a sport that I love. I've heard the stories from the horse's mouth, managed to
[30:59.160 -> 31:05.600] capture them. We put this together in the best way we know how and it's amazing. I pinch myself every day,
[31:05.600 -> 31:13.600] but I don't... It's the right way of putting it. It doesn't diminish my absolute respect
[31:13.600 -> 31:20.720] for him by 1%. This is a great man. He genuinely is. I've met very few people
[31:21.760 -> 31:28.720] who I just almost put in that kind of bracket. A visionary, someone who made things
[31:28.720 -> 31:33.200] happen. Listen, do I agree with him politically 100% and stuff? Absolutely not. Do I agree with
[31:33.200 -> 31:38.640] him socially on loads of stuff? Absolutely not. But do I respect him as a 92-year-old from a
[31:38.640 -> 31:44.480] different generation who's really seen the world, grew up in a war, has seen proper poverty,
[31:48.160 -> 31:54.240] really seen the world, grew up in a war, has seen proper poverty, who was making deals at the times of military dictatorships. You wouldn't get me on a plane to Argentina in 1972, I can tell you that.
[31:55.200 -> 32:01.920] So you're dealing with somebody who really thought through things. He is Sun Tzu in the art of war.
[32:01.920 -> 32:06.680] He thinks through every single aspect of a battle, every
[32:06.680 -> 32:09.360] contingency and he always wins.
[32:09.360 -> 32:13.600] I've always wondered how, and I think this is just going to give a little bit more of
[32:13.600 -> 32:19.840] an insight about Bernie. I love that you've chosen him because, as you mentioned earlier
[32:19.840 -> 32:26.320] on, he's seen everything and he essentially was what Formula One stands for in all this way. Oh it's amazing
[32:26.320 -> 32:32.320] amazing how things are going to pan out but I want to focus more on the archives as well because you
[32:32.320 -> 32:37.760] released a couple of clips on your twitter which were basically footages of back in the days right
[32:37.760 -> 32:42.560] when F1 went to Las Vegas, Bernie dealing with all the olden drivers and you got archive footage for
[32:42.560 -> 32:49.600] that. So you mentioned that we will deal with Formula One with the footage earlier on the episode. What was that like?
[32:49.600 -> 32:55.120] Because of course they now are more open than Bernie was in his time but was it still quite a
[32:55.120 -> 33:00.080] headache to find all that stuff? Because I was astounded watching just the Las Vegas circuit
[33:00.080 -> 33:05.120] being prepared. I was like wow okay this is stuff I never imagined. I mean I knew that they did it
[33:05.120 -> 33:08.960] in the middle of the hotel but just watching it go past and all that stuff is amazing.
[33:10.080 -> 33:17.280] So I'm very lucky, got a fantastic relationship with Formula One. I think you know the
[33:18.640 -> 33:23.360] the person who really is the head of media content, Ian Holmes, he was there back in the day
[33:23.360 -> 33:26.400] at Senna. So I've known Ian now since 2006.
[33:26.400 -> 33:31.360] So it's a long time to know someone. And I think he knows how passionate we are and how
[33:31.360 -> 33:38.960] knowledgeable we are as a team and how we would never abuse in any way kind of access to archive
[33:38.960 -> 33:43.120] like that. Quite the opposite. It's like being allowed into the Bodleian Library, but also to
[33:43.120 -> 33:46.440] borrow some old books and take them back to your room.
[33:46.440 -> 33:48.640] That's effectively what they gave us,
[33:48.640 -> 33:51.440] which is extraordinary, unprecedented.
[33:51.440 -> 33:53.280] It was done, I think, obviously partly
[33:53.280 -> 33:55.160] because this project's about Bernie,
[33:55.160 -> 33:58.720] but I think they know this will be fantastic for Formula One.
[33:58.720 -> 34:02.920] And I think, so we had to do a deal.
[34:02.920 -> 34:05.160] It was a complicated deal, a long deal.
[34:05.160 -> 34:06.920] It recognized certain rights,
[34:06.920 -> 34:10.120] it recognized a certain amount of access,
[34:10.120 -> 34:14.920] which to be honest, was incredible
[34:14.920 -> 34:18.960] because we had remote access this time and it was just done so.
[34:18.960 -> 34:23.400] We could really search for stuff on our own terms if that makes sense.
[34:23.400 -> 34:25.600] We'd say, I remember I went in with Asif and Paul,
[34:29.760 -> 34:36.560] our archive producer at the time, and we had two solid weeks together with another week for
[34:36.560 -> 34:42.000] research and another week for odds and solves. They'd have to pull tapes and you'd be watching
[34:42.000 -> 34:45.040] reasonably randomly. There are no search engine words.
[34:46.720 -> 34:49.600] All of that's so much better now. It's not perfect, but it's so much better now.
[34:49.600 -> 34:56.000] And it just meant that we could really hone in on telling you stories, hopefully.
[34:56.360 -> 34:58.600] I mean, again, I hope I'm not giving it.
[34:58.600 -> 35:06.480] So in 2008, I think we've all seen Lewis win that fantastic championship in Brazil.
[35:07.320 -> 35:11.360] And I think we've seen it from most angles, but what we were able to do was find the onboard.
[35:11.960 -> 35:19.920] So telling that story purely from Lewis's onboard, only cutting away to the garage, no exterior shots of the car.
[35:20.480 -> 35:21.800] That's an artistic decision.
[35:21.800 -> 35:23.600] The camera fogs up.
[35:23.880 -> 35:26.760] You hear voices on the radio, but it's so visceral.
[35:26.760 -> 35:27.960] It's so emotional.
[35:27.960 -> 35:28.720] Is that Glock?
[35:28.720 -> 35:29.360] Is that Glock?
[35:29.360 -> 35:30.480] It is Glock.
[35:30.480 -> 35:32.440] It's this amazing moment.
[35:32.440 -> 35:34.640] You're seeing it from Lewis's point of view.
[35:34.640 -> 35:36.440] And we were able to do a few little things
[35:36.440 -> 35:39.760] like that, which hopefully you've never seen before.
[35:39.760 -> 35:41.160] So that's kind of great.
[35:41.160 -> 35:44.960] But at the same time, stuff that you think you know,
[35:44.960 -> 35:46.000] maybe we've been able to tell
[35:46.000 -> 35:51.280] it to you from Bernie's point of view so that you have a completely different perspective on it.
[35:53.280 -> 35:59.120] So in that way, it's been brilliant. It's storytelling with the archive and with Bernie
[35:59.680 -> 36:07.680] being the kind of overall narrator. And that's it. But as I said, we used animation for these.
[36:07.680 -> 36:10.120] We also use some print archives.
[36:10.120 -> 36:12.520] So you don't see newspapers whirling.
[36:12.520 -> 36:16.520] But just literally sometimes key headlines and the source
[36:16.520 -> 36:18.680] or a little bit of because what he'll do,
[36:18.680 -> 36:20.520] sometimes he'll lead you to the garden path,
[36:20.520 -> 36:21.920] but he won't open the gate.
[36:21.920 -> 36:24.600] And we need to open the gate for the audience a little bit more.
[36:24.600 -> 36:28.720] And it's great because if you go into this very passively,
[36:28.720 -> 36:31.440] I'm not sure it's going to be the most rewarding series.
[36:31.440 -> 36:34.240] So if you sit there with 20 beers and some crisps
[36:34.240 -> 36:36.880] and you just lean back, you go, what did he say again?
[36:36.880 -> 36:39.200] Because Bernie, when he speaks, you need to lean forward.
[36:39.200 -> 36:40.560] You need to listen.
[36:40.560 -> 36:42.560] You need to listen to him.
[36:42.560 -> 36:44.880] But if you go into it with a bit of an inquiring mind,
[36:44.880 -> 36:47.300] you don't need any knowledge, but you need to listen to him. But if you go into it with a bit of an inquiring mind, you don't need any knowledge,
[36:47.300 -> 36:49.040] but you need to be interested.
[36:49.040 -> 36:50.740] I think he sucks you right in.
[36:50.740 -> 36:53.540] He sucks us right in.
[36:53.540 -> 36:55.800] And you're there, and he's telling you a story,
[36:55.800 -> 36:58.880] whether it's the story of stealing Mickey Louder
[36:58.880 -> 37:00.040] from Enzo Ferrari,
[37:00.040 -> 37:04.520] or having Carlos Reutemann stolen from him by Enzo Ferrari.
[37:04.520 -> 37:09.120] You know, it's all there, all subtle, you know, and that's who he is.
[37:10.000 -> 37:13.280] I think a lot of it has to be attributed to your work as well, Manish,
[37:13.280 -> 37:15.720] because we've seen this before from you.
[37:15.720 -> 37:20.840] I mean, I just don't get the story of how someone who's a practising doctor
[37:20.840 -> 37:23.200] ends up becoming a Formula One storyteller,
[37:23.200 -> 37:24.680] because for me, I've always been curious.
[37:24.680 -> 37:26.840] I remember, Senna popped along back when I was a kid.
[37:26.840 -> 37:28.540] I was like, okay, wow, I've heard this name
[37:28.540 -> 37:31.420] for the first time, but this is an outstanding movie.
[37:31.420 -> 37:32.720] But how did it come for you?
[37:32.720 -> 37:35.260] Your love of Formula One and also deciding that, okay,
[37:35.260 -> 37:37.880] I'm going to be the one who shares the stories of it.
[37:37.880 -> 37:39.840] Because you've shared so many brilliant ones.
[37:39.840 -> 37:41.640] How did that moment come in when you decided,
[37:41.640 -> 37:43.640] okay, this is what I want to do?
[37:43.640 -> 37:45.400] I think I always knew, to be honest,
[37:45.400 -> 37:48.000] with my father was a doctor, stepmother was a doctor,
[37:48.000 -> 37:50.080] my sister is a doctor, my aunt's a doctor,
[37:50.080 -> 37:51.680] we're a very medical family.
[37:51.680 -> 37:55.160] And like normal Indian kids, if you're academic,
[37:55.160 -> 37:58.000] you have a binary choice, don't you, now?
[37:58.000 -> 37:59.600] I suppose there are three choices now.
[37:59.600 -> 38:02.040] You can be a doctor, a lawyer, or an investment banker,
[38:02.040 -> 38:05.840] I guess, or tech, I assume now. Back in my day, it was basically, are you going to become a doctor or are you going to become a lawyer, or an investment banker, I guess, or tech, I assume now.
[38:08.560 -> 38:10.080] Back in my day, it was basically, yeah, you're going to become a doctor, you're going to become a lawyer and that's it.
[38:10.080 -> 38:16.960] So, it's very funny this.
[38:16.960 -> 38:20.560] I remember my very, very, very first lecture at Cambridge.
[38:20.560 -> 38:26.160] It was an anatomy lecture and the anatomy lecturer was talking to a bunch of fresh
[38:26.160 -> 38:36.000] medical students, 200 of us, about Galen and the history of anatomy and you know what it felt like.
[38:37.760 -> 38:41.200] Have you ever seen the Snoopy cartoons, the Charlie Brown cartoons?
[38:42.240 -> 38:45.720] They were very big cartoons in America in the 70s.
[38:45.720 -> 38:52.000] And what they would do is to show you how bored and disconnected the school kids were
[38:52.000 -> 38:53.000] to the teacher.
[38:53.000 -> 38:58.040] You'd see the teacher, you'd see the school kids talking to somebody whose face you don't
[38:58.040 -> 39:00.560] see and they had no voice, they just had this noise.
[39:00.560 -> 39:03.560] Wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah.
[39:03.560 -> 39:08.080] You'd see this child with a completely flat face going, yes, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah, wah. I'm just seeing this child with a completely flat face going,
[39:08.080 -> 39:10.480] yes, miss, that's what I felt like.
[39:10.480 -> 39:13.560] I just knew that day I did not belong in there.
[39:13.560 -> 39:15.920] And I think it's just sheer pig-headedness that
[39:15.920 -> 39:16.680] got me through.
[39:16.680 -> 39:18.880] And I went from being a really good student
[39:18.880 -> 39:23.000] to being a spectacularly useless one in a very small amount
[39:23.000 -> 39:24.040] of time.
[39:24.040 -> 39:26.480] But I did take it seriously right at the end,
[39:26.480 -> 39:34.400] right at the end of my degree. And I did think about, very hard about sort of a career in
[39:34.400 -> 39:41.160] orthopedics and that was a path that I was on. But I started writing and I actually started
[39:41.160 -> 39:46.160] writing scripts. I found them... Writing scripts is very technical,
[39:46.160 -> 39:53.200] which I really liked. It's really not novelistic. It's really technical. And to do it really well,
[39:53.200 -> 39:59.120] what you should be doing is seeing everything you're describing and hearing everything that
[39:59.120 -> 40:04.480] a character says. And I found that I could do that. And I got an agent actually quite quickly.
[40:04.480 -> 40:10.640] And I thought, oh, that's fine. I'm laughing. But actually, it took, from the moment I've written my first script
[40:10.640 -> 40:16.000] to getting a story picked up, actually I bumped into Shekhar Kapoor. That's actually what did it.
[40:16.000 -> 40:21.840] Totally randomly met Shekhar just before he was making Elizabeth. We got walking. He gave
[40:21.840 -> 40:25.880] me his email address. We stayed in touch, Elizabeth was a massive hit.
[40:25.880 -> 40:28.920] And when he moved to London, he used to send me,
[40:28.920 -> 40:30.280] he used to send me all his scripts
[40:30.280 -> 40:31.720] that he'd get from his agent.
[40:31.720 -> 40:33.080] So he'd get three scripts a day
[40:33.080 -> 40:34.400] and I'd read them in the evenings
[40:34.400 -> 40:36.560] and I'd think, gosh, I can do this.
[40:36.560 -> 40:38.920] And I wrote a rom-com actually,
[40:38.920 -> 40:42.760] which he helped me set up at Working Title Films.
[40:42.760 -> 40:44.560] Now that was my first professional script,
[40:44.560 -> 40:46.000] it was an amazing year.
[40:46.000 -> 40:51.440] Unfortunately, they couldn't make the film, but I got to marry my producer, which was great.
[40:51.440 -> 41:01.040] And she and I, exactly, so she and I, she had made a film with James Gay Rees called,
[41:01.040 -> 41:07.680] it was a zombie movie, and James wanted to make a documentary on Senna.
[41:07.680 -> 41:08.800] And he wanted to make a documentary
[41:08.800 -> 41:10.280] about the death of Senna.
[41:10.280 -> 41:12.760] So it was going to be about the last weekend of his life.
[41:12.760 -> 41:15.440] And my wife said to him, you should meet Manish
[41:15.440 -> 41:18.080] because he really knows about Senna.
[41:18.080 -> 41:19.280] He's really into Formula One.
[41:19.280 -> 41:20.880] I sat down with James and I said, look,
[41:20.880 -> 41:22.680] I think your idea is very powerful,
[41:22.680 -> 41:24.240] but I don't think it's going to work.
[41:24.240 -> 41:26.120] And I'll tell you the two key reasons why
[41:26.120 -> 41:27.080] it's not going to work.
[41:27.080 -> 41:30.840] Number one, I think to appreciate Senna's death,
[41:30.840 -> 41:33.200] you really need to appreciate his life.
[41:33.200 -> 41:36.320] So I think the three acts in this, the two acts,
[41:36.320 -> 41:41.120] the bulk of the story is the monumental achievements
[41:41.120 -> 41:43.800] and conflicts that this man overcame.
[41:43.800 -> 41:47.120] And then I think the last act is sadly going to be his death.
[41:47.120 -> 41:48.800] I mean, that was the structure.
[41:48.800 -> 41:50.480] And the second reason why this won't get made
[41:50.480 -> 41:51.640] is because if you want to make something
[41:51.640 -> 41:52.960] about the death of some of the family
[41:52.960 -> 41:56.360] and Bernie will say, no, I'd never met either.
[41:56.360 -> 41:57.660] But that was my feeling.
[41:57.660 -> 42:01.080] So I worked on an outline, became a very detailed treatment.
[42:01.080 -> 42:06.980] I flew to Sao Paulo, the studio sent James and me and I pitched to the
[42:06.980 -> 42:11.500] family. His sister, you know, I got to meet her which I still couldn't believe.
[42:11.500 -> 42:15.140] I remember, I can tell you right now what she was wearing, you know, it was that
[42:15.140 -> 42:20.460] kind of day and you know she burst into tears at the end and said we're doing
[42:20.460 -> 42:26.080] the film. And you absolutely nailed it with that. I loved the point that you mentioned
[42:26.080 -> 42:30.160] to appreciate Senna said you have to appreciate his life and I love that you've been able to
[42:30.160 -> 42:34.400] capture it which makes me even more excited for Lucky because I'm just wondering if you did that
[42:34.400 -> 42:38.720] with Senna was just a part of the Formula One story, a huge part nonetheless, but still
[42:39.440 -> 42:46.560] what is it going to be like when Bernie narrates it? I can't wait. 27th December again, right?
[42:46.560 -> 42:50.800] It can't come close enough, Manish. Seriously, that, that, it's going to be the ultimate
[42:50.800 -> 42:55.360] post-Christmas gift that you can ever have. And I'm already so excited for it. But I'm just
[42:55.360 -> 42:59.840] wondering, you mentioned those stories that aren't going to be a part. You mentioned that you wish
[42:59.840 -> 43:07.920] you would cover them already. Is there plans for a season two already, can you see what's happening next because I'm already salivating at the thought of it.
[43:07.920 -> 43:12.920] You know what I'd quite like to do one day, it won't be soon, I think in a few
[43:12.920 -> 43:16.360] years time when I'm sort of you know we've got we've got a few things that we
[43:16.360 -> 43:21.760] are lining up to do but well I wouldn't mind sitting down with the material when
[43:21.760 -> 43:29.900] there's some space and maybe creating kind of the ultimate podcast with it. I just had this sort of thought that he said so much.
[43:29.900 -> 43:34.000] And I've also had this idea about doing it as what I would call, we nickname it, maybe
[43:34.000 -> 43:38.200] I've stolen this, I don't know, but a vodcast. So what you would do is you'd get the best
[43:38.200 -> 43:43.980] photography you could find and tell longer form versions of each of these stories just
[43:43.980 -> 43:45.720] underneath a still picture
[43:45.720 -> 43:47.480] and then move to another picture.
[43:47.480 -> 43:49.200] So it's a very different experience.
[43:49.200 -> 43:51.300] You just sit in front of your TV
[43:51.300 -> 43:55.340] and have Bernie narrate in long form and no movement.
[43:55.340 -> 43:56.640] So you're not being distracted,
[43:56.640 -> 43:59.240] but you're looking at a picture and you're analyzing it.
[43:59.240 -> 44:02.840] You choose a picture carefully, you can do that.
[44:02.840 -> 44:04.880] And I think, I mean, I'd love to do something like that.
[44:04.880 -> 44:05.680] That would be a beautiful thing to do at some point in the future, I can do that. And I think, I mean, I'd love to do something like that. That would be
[44:05.680 -> 44:11.120] a beautiful thing to do at some point in the future, I think, with this. Wow. And there's so
[44:11.120 -> 44:14.880] many photographs we could have as well. And so many of the F1 archives, so many stories that
[44:15.920 -> 44:22.880] are just pictures, but essentially untold in that way. Wow. Okay. Okay. Amazing. My mind's
[44:23.440 -> 44:28.840] running extremely hard to imagine all those things right now but Manish it was amazing having on
[44:28.840 -> 44:34.240] on the Inside Lineup podcast. I just think the next thing to do now is wait
[44:34.240 -> 44:42.400] for the next 10 odd days. Seriously. 21 days. When the episode goes out it'll be 10 so
[44:42.400 -> 44:47.000] that'll be even less for all of our dear listeners, but a little bit longer for us right now.
[44:47.000 -> 44:48.240] But amazing, amazing.
[44:48.240 -> 44:49.900] I'm so grateful that you took out the time
[44:49.900 -> 44:51.400] to speak to us right here.
[44:51.400 -> 44:53.040] Thank you very much.
[44:53.040 -> 44:55.160] And I hope it really goes well, Manish, seriously,
[44:55.160 -> 44:59.520] because there's no reason I can see why it wouldn't.
[44:59.520 -> 45:05.280] Sure, and I think Bernie, he's so misunderstood, I think.
[45:05.280 -> 45:10.080] If we can get across that really strange mixture
[45:10.080 -> 45:16.280] of essential simplicity, yet this utterly complicated mind
[45:16.280 -> 45:19.240] that's so apprehensive, we can just get that balance across.
[45:19.240 -> 45:24.560] And this sense of humor, he's an entertainer,
[45:24.560 -> 45:26.880] and he is very entertaining if he wants to be.
[45:27.760 -> 45:30.720] Can't wait to see how that pans out. But thank you once again, Manish.
[45:30.720 -> 45:36.480] Folks, this time I won't thank you for listening because it's nothing to be thankful. Manish is
[45:36.480 -> 45:40.240] such an excellent storyteller. You just want to sit down and listen. And I think that'll
[45:40.240 -> 45:44.240] also be something we can potentially do someday. This is your thoughts on the moments of Formula
[45:44.240 -> 45:45.920] One. But for now, now folks it's time to bid
[45:45.920 -> 45:49.680] goodbye. Thank you for listening and have a good time and don't forget to watch
[45:49.680 -> 45:53.120] Lucky because I am already been sold in and by this point if you're already here
[45:53.120 -> None] good chance that you are as well. See you folks have a good time. you