Episode 3 - Monza Review, Dramatic F1 Car Downforce Loss, Who will find success in Singapore? and Hot Takes Galore

The third time’s the charm! Welcome back for the 3rd installment of Braking Bias! Join Dr. Obbs and Molly as they tackle a ton of tech topics in this jam-packed episode. 
 
 Things get started with a review of the Italian Grand Prix as the team discusses how  Ferrari nabbed the shock pole but was unable to convert it to a win on Sunday, including the characteristics that could be contributing to their driver's struggles (or lack thereof) vs the on the nose RB19.  Then they dive into the shocking reported downforce loss across trailing F1 cars from 2021 to the present and what could be contributing to it. Are we right back to square one? Should the FIA step in?  And is F1 the only series with this trailing car struggle?  After that deep dive, it's time to explore who could find success in Singapore for the upcoming race weekend, how the track changes in Sector 3 could shake up the field, and what the hosts expect from an upgrades standpoint. 
 
 You don't want to miss either Tech Bias segment of this episode! Molly leads a discussion on the mysterious case of F1 car's electrical issues in Singapore and how teams have to prepare specifically for this race weekend. Dr. Obbs takes us on a deep dive into the AMR22 vs AMR23 and what contributed to the success of one car and the shortcomings of the other that's allowed Aston Martin to find so much success this season.  
 
 There is no shortage of tech talk in this episode, so settle in, set your bias aside, and let's get Braking Bias! 

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Welcome to the third episode of the Breaking Bias Motorsport Tech podcast, where we immerse ourselves in the technical intricacies of Formula One racing. In this episode, we dissect the recent Italian Grand Prix and explore the complexities of car design, aerodynamics, and powertrain management.

Ferrari's Monza Pole Position:
Ferrari's dominant qualifying performance at Monza was influenced by a low downforce setup and a one-off power unit strategy. New components and aggressive mapping contributed to their impressive pace. However, the inherent weakness of the car in high downforce configurations limited its competitiveness in the race.

The Importance of Front-End Balance:
Ferrari's struggles in high downforce conditions stem from a weak front end, more pronounced in this year's car. This characteristic makes it challenging to maintain stability and grip, especially with a high downforce setup. Carlos Sainz's ability to manage the car's front end better than Charles Leclerc may have contributed to his stronger performance in Monza.

The Physics of Car Balance:
The aerodynamic center of pressure, influenced by wing configurations and floor design, plays a critical role in car balance. A more forward-biased aerodynamic balance, achieved through adjustments to the front and rear wings, can generate more downforce on the front tires. This setup allows drivers to push harder and carry more speed but requires careful management of the rear end to prevent oversteer.

The Challenge of Following Cars:
Data from the FIA reveals an increase in downforce loss for trailing cars in 2023 compared to 2021. Teams are finding ways to generate more downforce, but they are also creating more outwash, disrupting the wake behind the car. The FIA aims to address this issue by 2025, potentially through regulation changes or mandatory design elements.

The Future of Car Design:
Considering smaller and lighter cars for 2026 to improve following and reduce drag is under discussion. Advancements in materials and manufacturing techniques, such as additive manufacturing, could contribute to weight reduction and structural improvements.

Teams are exploring innovative methods to generate downforce while adhering to regulation volume restrictions. The FIA's specifications for Venturi tunnels and floor design may contribute to the wake problem experienced by cars.

Singapore Grand Prix Track Changes:
The Singapore Grand Prix circuit has undergone modifications, impacting overtaking opportunities and team strategies. The raised ride height requirement for Singapore's bumpy track surface could benefit Ferrari, given their positive results at Spa with a higher ride height.

McLaren's Wind Tunnel and Upgrades:
McLaren's new on-site wind tunnel is expected to provide significant advantages in aerodynamic development. The team is expected to bring upgrades to the Singapore Grand Prix, offering insights into their development direction for the 2024 car.

Tech Bias Segments:
Electromagnetic Interference in Singapore poses challenges for F1 cars' sensors, requiring special shielding and wrapping. The comparison between AMR-22 and AMR-23 highlights key differences, with the AMR-23's forward undercut design contributing to better overall performance. Dr. Obbs analyzes the AMR23 car, highlighting the team's successful development in improving its performance. He praises the efficiency of the car's undercuts and notes the potential impact of Aston Martin's upcoming wind tunnel on their future development.

Monza and Singapore Grand Prix Discussions:
The hosts reflect on the Italian Grand Prix, acknowledging that Monza's unique characteristics make it a challenging data point for technical analysis. They discuss the upcoming Singapore Grand Prix and express their hopes for a dry race to showcase the track's potential for closer racing.

Closing Thoughts:
Dr. Obbs and Molly Marissa express their excitement for the Singapore Grand Prix, anticipating a captivating weekend of racing with upgrades, track changes, and the challenges of a street circuit. They encourage listeners to subscribe to the Breaking Bias Pod on YouTube, Spotify, and iTunes and share the podcast with others. They also invite suggestions for additional platforms to access the podcast.

[00:00.000 -> 00:16.960] Welcome back to the breaking bias motorsport tech podcast.
[00:16.960 -> 00:21.640] I am your cohost Molly, and I am joined by my fantastic cohost, Dr.
[00:21.640 -> 00:23.960] Obbs for our third episode.
[00:24.000 -> 00:26.120] Time kind of flies when we're having fun.
[00:26.120 -> 00:27.120] How are you, Dr. Obbs?
[00:27.120 -> 00:28.360] I'm doing great, Molly.
[00:28.360 -> 00:29.560] I'm enjoying this.
[00:29.560 -> 00:30.560] This is so much fun.
[00:30.560 -> 00:32.040] The first two episodes were great.
[00:32.040 -> 00:34.040] Episode three is going to be even better.
[00:34.040 -> 00:35.040] I'm excited.
[00:35.040 -> 00:36.040] Cannot wait.
[00:36.040 -> 00:37.040] This is going to be such a fun episode.
[00:37.040 -> 00:42.600] I think we have jam-packed quite a lot of tech talk into this episode, too, so this
[00:42.600 -> 00:45.180] should be a great one for our listeners.
[00:45.180 -> 00:46.780] Lots of good stuff to talk about.
[00:46.780 -> 00:49.060] You know, we're kind of in that in-between space
[00:49.060 -> 00:52.940] at the moment in between the Italian GP heading
[00:52.940 -> 00:54.780] into the Singapore GP.
[00:54.780 -> 00:58.060] So whenever this releases, it'll be just before the race
[00:58.060 -> 00:59.020] in Singapore.
[00:59.020 -> 01:01.820] But before we get into that, should we talk a little bit
[01:01.820 -> 01:02.980] about the Italian GP?
[01:02.980 -> 01:04.660] I think lots of cool stuff happened.
[01:04.660 -> 01:06.320] Yeah, there was a lot of cool stuff that happened.
[01:06.320 -> 01:10.780] I think there was a lot to talk about from that race to kind of the post-Zandvoort pivoting
[01:10.780 -> 01:13.400] into almost a complete opposite of a track with Manza.
[01:13.400 -> 01:15.480] I think there's a lot to talk about.
[01:15.480 -> 01:18.760] I think the one that had everybody talking though was the Ferrari pole.
[01:18.760 -> 01:19.800] Yeah, big pole.
[01:19.800 -> 01:22.920] I mean, that was like something from the storybooks, you know?
[01:22.920 -> 01:25.020] I mean, catching pole in Monza
[01:25.020 -> 01:29.020] in front of the Tifosi and just like the party afterwards
[01:29.020 -> 01:31.100] was epic, that was so great.
[01:31.100 -> 01:33.620] I mean, it didn't translate to Sunday, unfortunately,
[01:33.620 -> 01:35.020] which would have been even bigger,
[01:35.020 -> 01:37.500] but that was a banging Saturday party.
[01:37.500 -> 01:39.500] Oh my God, yeah, that was crazy.
[01:39.500 -> 01:42.260] I almost wish I had like my camera running
[01:42.260 -> 01:44.660] for like the swing of emotions that happened.
[01:44.660 -> 01:45.500] It was crazy, I didn't see that coming at all. I had like the running for the swing of emotions that happened. It was crazy.
[01:45.500 -> 01:47.000] I didn't see that coming at all.
[01:47.000 -> 01:48.760] I had the multiviewer telemetry up
[01:48.760 -> 01:50.760] and was like, no way, no way.
[01:50.760 -> 01:52.040] And then it went P1.
[01:52.040 -> 01:53.840] Shout out to multiviewer.
[01:53.840 -> 01:55.320] Yeah, shout out to multiviewer.
[01:55.320 -> 01:59.400] Multiviewers, we got the flat bill today from multiviewer.
[01:59.400 -> 02:01.000] We're big fans of multiviewers.
[02:01.000 -> 02:02.880] So like Molly was talking about,
[02:02.880 -> 02:06.140] watching the races or qualifying on multi-viewer is epic.
[02:06.140 -> 02:08.440] If you're not doing it, you need to do it.
[02:08.440 -> 02:10.000] It's the best.
[02:10.000 -> 02:12.760] And we use it a lot as well for after the races,
[02:12.760 -> 02:14.480] you know, you can go back and watch the replays,
[02:14.480 -> 02:16.040] you can watch the driver on boards.
[02:16.040 -> 02:19.280] And I'll tell you what, a super close quali as well.
[02:19.280 -> 02:23.080] So I mean, how many tenths did we have to the top three?
[02:23.080 -> 02:26.000] I think it was quite close between top three, wasn't it?
[02:26.000 -> 02:27.880] 0.0067 or something like that.
[02:27.880 -> 02:29.440] Like it was tiny margins.
[02:29.440 -> 02:31.640] Yeah, 0.067, that was under a tenth.
[02:31.640 -> 02:34.280] Yeah, it was pretty amazing, which is really cool.
[02:34.280 -> 02:35.960] I mean, you would expect something like that
[02:35.960 -> 02:38.520] in a track where you don't really have the offset
[02:38.520 -> 02:40.080] and wings or anything like that.
[02:40.080 -> 02:42.400] Everybody's running the low down force spec,
[02:42.400 -> 02:43.520] you know, presumably.
[02:43.520 -> 02:45.360] But what do you think contributed
[02:45.360 -> 02:46.800] to the Ferrari poll?
[02:46.800 -> 02:49.100] Maybe that also didn't translate to the Sunday.
[02:49.100 -> 02:50.280] What are your thoughts on that?
[02:50.280 -> 02:53.880] I think what contributed to the poll largely
[02:53.880 -> 02:56.360] was the low downforce setup.
[02:56.360 -> 02:58.320] And then I also have some points about their power unit
[02:58.320 -> 03:00.860] because they brought this one-off special Monza setup
[03:00.860 -> 03:03.340] and new power units to both cars for the race this weekend.
[03:03.340 -> 03:04.520] And I talked about this.
[03:04.520 -> 03:07.920] This is the race Ferrari doesn't care what they have to do.
[03:07.920 -> 03:10.040] They want the best possible outcome,
[03:10.040 -> 03:11.560] ideally to win it for them.
[03:11.560 -> 03:14.440] And so they were gonna do something pretty aggressive.
[03:14.440 -> 03:16.960] And so what I think contributed to it
[03:16.960 -> 03:19.560] was the low downforce package they brought largely.
[03:19.560 -> 03:21.640] I think what we're starting to learn
[03:21.640 -> 03:23.940] about this car specifically
[03:23.940 -> 03:26.640] is when you get into high downforce setups,
[03:26.640 -> 03:30.640] the car doesn't like it. And we were kind of talking, you said it's still very peaky,
[03:30.640 -> 03:36.000] and that's what's happening is where you introduce the high downforce and it winds up being a mess.
[03:36.000 -> 03:40.640] It's very unpredictable. It wants to go one way and then the next. It's not easy to kind of get
[03:40.640 -> 03:45.680] a setup dialed in on it. And I think that is what we saw in Zandvoort. And I
[03:45.680 -> 03:49.840] actually want to like try and have some time to go through and run maybe through like some FastF1
[03:49.840 -> 03:54.720] or some of the data and see if I can like correlate actual numbers from like Monza.
[03:54.720 -> 03:59.440] I might wait till Singapore actually and do like Zandvoort, Singapore, Monza, SPA, some of the
[03:59.440 -> 04:06.300] different setups we've gotten and compare that to see what the difference is. But it's like a low downforce setup.
[04:06.300 -> 04:10.500] And it tends to dial in a lot better on the low downforce setups.
[04:10.500 -> 04:14.000] And I think we saw that even at spa where it could barely hang on.
[04:14.000 -> 04:17.000] You know, they were really struggling there too, weather conditions aside.
[04:17.000 -> 04:18.800] Zandvoort, it was a mess.
[04:18.800 -> 04:23.300] And so I think the low downforce setup where they trimmed out really, really helped them.
[04:23.300 -> 04:30.080] And I think we're also learning that this car has a weak front end. We hear it from the drivers. They do tend to say
[04:30.080 -> 04:34.080] that the front end is weak and it's a difference with this car this year, whereas last year's had
[04:34.080 -> 04:40.880] a much stronger front end. And so when you go high downforce, it's going to shift COP backwards,
[04:40.880 -> 04:45.360] correct? Yes. Shifts your aero balance or a forward. And so you already have a weak front end
[04:45.360 -> 04:47.540] and you're gonna slap your high downforce on it.
[04:47.540 -> 04:50.240] It's going to put that COP kind of further to the back
[04:50.240 -> 04:51.720] and make your front end even weaker.
[04:51.720 -> 04:53.560] So I think that that is kind of tied
[04:53.560 -> 04:55.040] to the handling issues with it.
[04:55.040 -> 04:56.760] And so that's why we didn't have,
[04:56.760 -> 04:59.440] I think as big of a problem with Ferrari and Monza.
[04:59.440 -> 05:01.180] As for their power unit,
[05:01.180 -> 05:03.520] they slapped brand new power unit on both cars.
[05:03.520 -> 05:06.440] I think that because there's not a ton of degradation over time with these power units, I think they said, okay, brand new power unit, they slapped brand new power unit on both cars. I think that because there's not a ton of degradation
[05:06.440 -> 05:07.840] over time with these power units,
[05:07.840 -> 05:09.560] I think they said, okay, brand new power unit,
[05:09.560 -> 05:13.400] we're going to map it very aggressively this weekend.
[05:13.400 -> 05:16.160] That was probably on kind of the edge of some things
[05:16.160 -> 05:19.080] where they may take speed over reliability
[05:19.080 -> 05:22.000] with this specific unit and just know that the mileage
[05:22.000 -> 05:24.780] is gonna be lower on it, that they're going to abuse it
[05:24.780 -> 05:25.700] a little bit more in Monza,
[05:25.700 -> 05:28.940] be a lot more aggressive in it and use it here.
[05:28.940 -> 05:31.100] And then it might just run lower mileage
[05:31.100 -> 05:32.620] than the rest of the ones in their pools.
[05:32.620 -> 05:34.260] I was kind of like going down a rabbit hole,
[05:34.260 -> 05:36.420] like, well, maybe they did something with energy management
[05:36.420 -> 05:38.500] or they changed some routing
[05:38.500 -> 05:41.400] because even though your power unit is frozen,
[05:41.400 -> 05:44.300] including your electronics, MGUH, MGUK, ERS,
[05:44.300 -> 05:45.800] all of that good stuff, Gearbox.
[05:45.800 -> 05:47.280] There are some things in packaging
[05:47.280 -> 05:49.280] and some things kind of in and around
[05:49.280 -> 05:50.160] that you could change.
[05:50.160 -> 05:51.320] And you checked this for me
[05:51.320 -> 05:53.160] that they didn't bring any upgrades in and around that area.
[05:53.160 -> 05:55.400] So I was like, maybe they changed some routing
[05:55.400 -> 05:57.120] and we're able to get a tighter shape somewhere,
[05:57.120 -> 05:58.640] improve aero in the floor,
[05:58.640 -> 06:01.120] find some space because they've adjusted packaging,
[06:01.120 -> 06:02.840] but that didn't get us anywhere.
[06:02.840 -> 06:04.240] And then I was also like,
[06:04.240 -> 06:06.000] oh, maybe they did something with like ERS
[06:06.000 -> 06:07.840] and energy management, energy deployment.
[06:07.840 -> 06:09.640] You only get one software set a year.
[06:09.640 -> 06:12.120] So I think it's a combination of the car liking
[06:12.120 -> 06:15.040] a very low downforce setup and just that they likely
[06:15.040 -> 06:17.560] just really aggressively mapped their power unit
[06:17.560 -> 06:18.400] for this race.
[06:18.400 -> 06:20.120] And then in terms of translating to Sunday,
[06:20.120 -> 06:22.360] they don't have a car really that's as aero efficient
[06:22.360 -> 06:23.200] as Red Bull.
[06:23.200 -> 06:24.020] And I think at the end of the day,
[06:24.020 -> 06:27.600] they definitely put up a good fight and I think they put up a better fight than I expected.
[06:27.600 -> 06:30.560] But when you look at the kind of drag-to-downforce ratio,
[06:30.560 -> 06:34.320] the car is still kind of struggling and not able to keep up with Red Bull.
[06:34.320 -> 06:37.200] Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, you said it all there.
[06:37.200 -> 06:40.040] Absolutely, I agree with the points you brought up there, Molly.
[06:40.040 -> 06:43.800] I think it was quite interesting to see, you know, Carlos Sainz, for instance,
[06:43.800 -> 06:48.760] drive it to the limit, as opposed to maybe Leclerc, where in the past you would have expected
[06:48.760 -> 06:52.180] Leclerc to be the one that kind of could, you know, drive the car on the ragged edge
[06:52.180 -> 06:55.000] and Sainz might struggle a little bit.
[06:55.000 -> 06:58.720] But Sainz seemed to be, you know, on point during the race.
[06:58.720 -> 07:02.240] You know, I always kind of felt like, okay, you know, degradation, is it still going to
[07:02.240 -> 07:03.320] be an issue for them?
[07:03.320 -> 07:07.580] We saw from Spa that they seem to have a handle on the degradation, but then the
[07:07.580 -> 07:11.880] question was what sort of, you know, uh, what, what did they give up when they
[07:11.880 -> 07:16.920] went so low down for us to be so fast on the speed traps and seems like it did
[07:16.940 -> 07:19.180] suffer a little bit with rear tire dag.
[07:19.180 -> 07:21.880] And we saw that during the race, you know, I mean, I think it was Max, it was
[07:21.880 -> 07:26.300] commenting as he was riding behind Carlos, you know, look, is, you know, he's starting to struggle with the
[07:26.300 -> 07:30.020] rears and naturally, you know, there was the lockup going into the new bell
[07:30.020 -> 07:30.860] chicane there.
[07:30.860 -> 07:34.400] And then, you know, Max kind of took advantage of that and went past him, but
[07:34.400 -> 07:38.140] yeah, it's, it's something I think that is, you know, you mentioned the weak
[07:38.140 -> 07:41.820] front end and maybe, you know, I want to hear your thoughts on this, but my
[07:41.820 -> 07:46.720] feeling is that this is more chassis related than anything, than it is contributed by Aero.
[07:46.720 -> 07:49.500] I think there could be something to it with the side pods
[07:49.500 -> 07:51.580] and all that, I really don't think so.
[07:51.580 -> 07:54.140] I think it's mostly chassis related, honestly.
[07:54.140 -> 07:55.300] This is a hot take.
[07:55.300 -> 07:59.540] I think Carlos can handle this car a little bit better
[07:59.540 -> 08:01.940] because he's used to McLaren cars
[08:01.940 -> 08:08.240] and the Renault previous that was weak in the front end that Daniel Ricciardo helped them develop out to help suit his needs and
[08:08.240 -> 08:14.120] then he moved to the McLaren which is notorious for a weak front-end car so
[08:14.120 -> 08:18.800] he's really able to kind of manage a weaker front-end car better than Charles
[08:18.800 -> 08:23.600] can and I'm saying this in factual I'm not like I said this isn't like Charles
[08:23.600 -> 08:27.180] versus Carlos. Charles has said time and time and time again,
[08:27.180 -> 08:29.160] and this is something even back in Sauber,
[08:29.160 -> 08:31.900] he likes a strong front end car.
[08:31.900 -> 08:33.920] He tends to really like a car
[08:33.920 -> 08:37.640] that's got a further forward COP with his driving style.
[08:37.640 -> 08:38.880] It's what suits him.
[08:38.880 -> 08:42.320] And he has a harder time with a weaker front end car.
[08:42.320 -> 08:45.680] And he even said it in post-Manza interviews that this car is weak in the front end. I like a strong front end car. And he even said it in post-Manza interviews that this car is weak
[08:45.680 -> 08:50.240] in the front end. I like a strong front end car and we're like working to develop for 2024 and
[08:50.240 -> 08:54.560] make changes. That's kind of what I think some of the difference was. And I think that's where I
[08:54.560 -> 09:00.080] saw Carlos not as hesitant, I think, to send things this weekend. I think Charles still went for it
[09:00.080 -> 09:08.060] and still tried, but I think that's where maybe the difference comes in. As for if I think it's chassis, I, this is where I think it might be more
[09:08.060 -> 09:12.700] aero driven unless they change something significantly in homologation, which
[09:12.720 -> 09:14.400] we don't have homologation dossiers.
[09:14.600 -> 09:19.600] We don't know what they changed 22 to 23, but the 2022 car didn't have this
[09:19.600 -> 09:21.340] inherits in the front end weakness.
[09:21.340 -> 09:24.360] And we know that they did a big pivot with their aero strategy.
[09:24.360 -> 09:24.520] Yeah.
[09:24.520 -> 09:26.080] A lot of stuff is still there,
[09:26.080 -> 09:26.980] but they did this pivot.
[09:26.980 -> 09:29.640] And I actually think that maybe
[09:29.640 -> 09:31.560] it is slightly more aero driven
[09:31.560 -> 09:33.160] without being able to see the homologation dossier,
[09:33.160 -> 09:34.520] but that's what my gut says.
[09:34.520 -> 09:36.600] No, I mean, it could be, you know,
[09:36.600 -> 09:38.240] and the thing is that you or I,
[09:38.240 -> 09:41.040] you know, we don't know what's what really,
[09:41.040 -> 09:43.280] it's the engineers of Ferrari that, you know,
[09:43.280 -> 09:45.440] we'll have a better idea. But, you know the engineers of Ferrari that will have a better idea.
[09:50.800 -> 09:55.360] So any opinions that we have, I think are warranted based off of our technical justification. So I think it's all good from that standpoint. When you talk about a car being on the nose a bit,
[09:55.360 -> 10:01.120] I mean, we had some comments as well, right? Which came from, oh gosh, who was it? Was it Pierre
[10:01.120 -> 10:05.440] Walsh? I think Red Bull that was saying that basically they're
[10:05.440 -> 10:08.000] able to give Max a car that's on the nose.
[10:08.000 -> 10:13.720] You can actually make a car that's on the nose faster than a car that's on the rear.
[10:13.720 -> 10:18.640] I was having some mental gymnastics that was going on.
[10:18.640 -> 10:19.640] You were noodling.
[10:19.640 -> 10:24.880] Yeah, I was noodling as to exactly what the physics behind it is.
[10:24.880 -> 10:25.640] Dynamically speaking, right?
[10:25.640 -> 10:30.080] What's generating all your turning moments and everything? It's a slip angle from the front tire, right?
[10:30.080 -> 10:34.440] So the rear tires are effectively just kind of along for the ride in essence
[10:34.440 -> 10:40.980] And so if you can put a car more on the nose, which means that you've got a bit more forward aero balance
[10:40.980 -> 10:46.800] So maybe for our listeners that don't know just as much as there's a center of gravity of a car,
[10:46.800 -> 10:49.220] which is where all of the weight is acting,
[10:49.220 -> 10:50.960] you have a center of pressure,
[10:50.960 -> 10:53.480] which means that it's where basically
[10:53.480 -> 10:55.600] your aerodynamic center is.
[10:55.600 -> 10:58.440] And so your aerodynamic center can be shifted forwards
[10:58.440 -> 11:01.720] or backwards dependent on how much rear wing you add, right?
[11:01.720 -> 11:03.440] So if you add more rear wing,
[11:03.440 -> 11:05.880] it will naturally have a tendency to shift your aerodynamic
[11:05.880 -> 11:07.280] center more rearward.
[11:07.280 -> 11:11.660] So which means you have more rear downforce or rear bias, they say.
[11:11.660 -> 11:15.860] You put more front wing on, they can, you know, bias it a bit more forward.
[11:15.860 -> 11:19.760] Now the front wing and the rear wing are only going to make a small amount of adjustments,
[11:19.760 -> 11:24.480] I would say, in the center of pressure or the location of the bias or how much bias
[11:24.480 -> 11:25.360] you have. It's really
[11:25.360 -> 11:31.200] the floor design that naturally is kind of designed in a certain way that will really sort of dictate
[11:31.200 -> 11:36.720] where your center of pressure is. Now the inlets to the tunnels are, you've got basically two
[11:36.720 -> 11:41.360] suction areas in the floor that are the strongest. It's on the inlet and then at the diffuser at the
[11:41.360 -> 11:45.240] kick line. And so this year, remember, they raised the diffuser throat.
[11:45.240 -> 11:48.360] So naturally, they were trying to reduce that sort of diffuser
[11:48.360 -> 11:51.480] kind of like kick line suction peak that happens right there.
[11:51.560 -> 11:55.720] But then teams have been putting a lot of emphasis on the forward floors as well
[11:55.720 -> 12:00.560] this year, and I feel like it's in an effort to try to get a bit more forward bias.
[12:00.800 -> 12:04.120] So it maybe bites a bit more on the front, especially at Red Bull,
[12:04.120 -> 12:05.720] because that's what Max likes,
[12:05.720 -> 12:07.960] but that's also obviously what a faster car is.
[12:07.960 -> 12:11.160] So to make a long story long,
[12:11.160 -> 12:13.560] basically what I'm trying to say is that
[12:13.560 -> 12:15.440] if you have a lot more downforce
[12:15.440 -> 12:17.560] or more downforce on the front,
[12:17.560 -> 12:20.000] so it's biased forward a bit more,
[12:20.000 -> 12:22.400] you can get more downforce on the front tires,
[12:22.400 -> 12:25.200] which means you're gonna get more grip at higher speeds, you're gonna get more turning moment as a result of that slip angle you can get more downforce on the front tires, which means you're gonna get more grip at higher speeds.
[12:25.200 -> 12:27.120] You're gonna get more turning moment
[12:27.120 -> 12:29.720] as a result of that slip angle you can generate
[12:29.720 -> 12:31.560] before you get sliding.
[12:31.560 -> 12:33.720] And now all the driver has to do
[12:33.720 -> 12:36.400] is be able to manage a nervous rear end.
[12:36.400 -> 12:37.240] Yeah. Right.
[12:37.240 -> 12:40.240] And so some drivers can manage that, some drivers can't.
[12:40.240 -> 12:41.680] And that's really the difference.
[12:41.680 -> 12:42.960] Yeah, and for anybody who doesn't know,
[12:42.960 -> 12:44.960] like when we say a nervous rear end,
[12:44.960 -> 12:48.140] that basically means it just wants to step out.
[12:48.140 -> 12:49.100] Step out, yeah.
[12:49.100 -> 12:51.040] It's loose in American racing terms.
[12:51.040 -> 12:52.180] Like I use loose and tight.
[12:52.180 -> 12:53.660] I think that's easier to describe
[12:53.660 -> 12:54.980] than oversteer and understeer.
[12:54.980 -> 12:56.660] It's a very loose race car.
[12:56.660 -> 12:58.900] It's very free would be another word you would hear
[12:58.900 -> 13:01.260] where it does want to turn very easily.
[13:01.260 -> 13:04.100] Opposite would be tight or understeer
[13:04.100 -> 13:05.520] where it is resistive to
[13:05.520 -> 13:10.320] turning or not wanting to turn in a tight rear is not beneficial for a lot
[13:10.320 -> 13:13.360] of guys they actually don't like that a lot of guys would rather have the
[13:13.360 -> 13:18.280] nervous and the rear that will step out. Yeah no good point and you know
[13:18.280 -> 13:25.360] essentially the rear wants to come become the front. It does. It sort of wants to flip around and rear. Yeah, it does. It sort of wants to flip around.
[13:25.360 -> 13:28.800] And that is definitely, I would say, something you can control with Arrow.
[13:28.800 -> 13:33.520] So, you know, degradation, I think, in Monza for our was...
[13:33.520 -> 13:34.520] The diff as well.
[13:34.520 -> 13:35.520] Absolutely.
[13:35.520 -> 13:36.520] Yep.
[13:36.520 -> 13:37.520] Diff settings and things like that.
[13:37.520 -> 13:39.080] Diff maps, torque maps, all of that.
[13:39.080 -> 13:40.080] Yeah.
[13:40.080 -> 13:43.000] That's a lot easier to manage for somebody where it's like, okay, I know that I just
[13:43.000 -> 13:50.560] need to put it on like diff position two or diff position eight, or it's diff 13 here. That's a lot easier to manage for some of
[13:50.560 -> 13:55.200] these guys and actually easier to modulate than having something inherent in the car that doesn't
[13:55.200 -> 13:59.440] there's nothing I can kind of settings it out. You know, that's that's easily modifiable with
[13:59.440 -> 14:11.440] with your maps and settings. Great point. This see, this is why we balance each other out so well Molly because like my aero brain goes to the like aerodynamic reasons why and your powertrain's brain goes exactly to
[14:11.440 -> 14:16.160] how you can manage the powertrain. So yeah make a good team for sure but that's that's a very good
[14:16.160 -> 14:20.480] point because you can manage those settings during a race exactly right. So as your tires start to
[14:20.480 -> 14:26.760] fall off then naturally race engineers for the drivers are going to be telling them, you know, try different diff settings or whatever,
[14:26.760 -> 14:28.060] if they're struggling a bit with,
[14:28.060 -> 14:31.000] so oversteer out of certain corners and things like that,
[14:31.000 -> 14:31.900] they can change them.
[14:31.900 -> 14:33.840] Yeah, even as your fuel load decreases,
[14:33.840 -> 14:37.360] tire wear fuel load will change the kind of center
[14:37.360 -> 14:39.080] of pressure and gravity in the car as you,
[14:39.080 -> 14:42.240] you kind of lose the weight in the fuel tank as well.
[14:42.240 -> 14:43.160] Exactly right.
[14:43.160 -> 14:46.440] Nothing, nothing is ever static on these cars.
[14:46.440 -> 14:48.240] I mean, the fuel is burning off,
[14:48.240 -> 14:49.920] the tires are starting to fall off,
[14:49.920 -> 14:51.480] the amount of grip that you have
[14:51.480 -> 14:53.240] on the four corners is changing.
[14:53.240 -> 14:54.800] Your energy store.
[14:54.800 -> 14:57.140] Yes, nothing is ever static.
[14:57.140 -> 15:01.120] Like this is an incredibly complicated series.
[15:01.120 -> 15:03.840] And I mean, we try and obviously explain it
[15:03.840 -> 15:06.180] as much as we can. But when I see people
[15:06.180 -> 15:11.620] like making very simplistic reasons why certain things are happening, I say in my head, it's
[15:11.620 -> 15:16.500] not as simple as that. You know, it's like, I mean, sometimes it is though, too. It is
[15:16.500 -> 15:22.080] just as simple as that. And a lot of people on the flip side like to try and over overthink
[15:22.080 -> 15:26.640] it and over complicated. And I always say like engineers, we don't know how to make things easy.
[15:26.640 -> 15:31.280] We always just make things so contrived and more complicated than they have to be sometimes.
[15:31.280 -> 15:34.360] Sometimes it really is that simple, but a lot of the times it is not.
[15:34.360 -> 15:35.360] That's right.
[15:35.360 -> 15:40.160] And speaking of overcomplicated things, something that came out of the race, which we should
[15:40.160 -> 15:45.440] definitely talk about, is now more comments about the difficulty to follow cars, right?
[15:45.440 -> 15:48.400] So I think it was Max specifically was saying
[15:48.400 -> 15:49.660] like it's getting more difficult.
[15:49.660 -> 15:53.000] We've heard Carlos talking about this, you know, as well.
[15:53.000 -> 15:54.000] A lot of guys.
[15:54.000 -> 15:54.920] Yeah, exactly.
[15:54.920 -> 15:57.520] So now the FIA has come out
[15:57.520 -> 16:02.120] and it was the single seater director, Nicholas Tombazos,
[16:02.120 -> 16:03.400] which I think I'm saying that right,
[16:03.400 -> 16:06.240] who said basically in 2021, based
[16:06.240 -> 16:12.020] off of their numbers, that when you are two car lengths away from the leading car, which
[16:12.020 -> 16:15.680] means you're the trailing car and the car in front of you is two car lengths in front
[16:15.680 -> 16:21.400] of you, that you're losing in 2021 before the new ground effect regulations, you're
[16:21.400 -> 16:24.600] losing 50% of your downforce.
[16:24.600 -> 16:27.320] And so this is primarily, if you ask me,
[16:27.320 -> 16:29.660] I mean, I don't have the numbers to back this up,
[16:29.660 -> 16:34.660] but it's probably primarily affecting your forward balance,
[16:35.460 -> 16:36.880] right, because it's your front wing
[16:36.880 -> 16:38.680] that's gonna be affected first
[16:38.680 -> 16:40.240] by the weight that it sees, right?
[16:40.240 -> 16:42.240] So that was the first thing they said.
[16:42.240 -> 16:46.320] Then in 2022, the first year of ground effect,
[16:46.320 -> 16:48.720] they said based off of the numbers they have,
[16:48.720 -> 16:49.960] it was now changed.
[16:49.960 -> 16:53.360] It was a 25% loss, two car lengths away.
[16:53.360 -> 16:55.600] So much better than it was
[16:55.600 -> 16:57.520] with the previous generations of the cars, right?
[16:57.520 -> 17:00.520] That's the whole intent of this ground effect era now
[17:00.520 -> 17:02.160] is to make it easier to follow.
[17:02.160 -> 17:07.180] Now in 2023, based off of the data they have, it's 35%.
[17:08.420 -> 17:11.600] So we're creeping back again.
[17:11.600 -> 17:14.600] We're not quite at those 2021 levels,
[17:14.600 -> 17:16.280] but we're getting closer, right?
[17:16.280 -> 17:17.120] So-
[17:17.120 -> 17:18.440] Yeah, we're getting there.
[17:18.440 -> 17:19.280] Exactly.
[17:19.280 -> 17:22.280] So more teams are finding downforce, right?
[17:22.280 -> 17:23.300] We talked about the fact
[17:23.300 -> 17:26.760] they raised the diffuser throughout this year to try to reduce
[17:26.760 -> 17:27.680] the amount of downforce.
[17:27.680 -> 17:30.240] They also raised the floor edge a bit.
[17:30.240 -> 17:31.960] It's not like a linear translation.
[17:31.960 -> 17:34.500] It's more of on an angle, but either way,
[17:34.500 -> 17:36.400] the floor edge is not able to generate
[17:36.400 -> 17:37.960] as much load as it was previously.
[17:37.960 -> 17:40.520] So overall, the aim was to try to reduce
[17:40.520 -> 17:42.900] the amount of downforce, and it seems like teams
[17:42.900 -> 17:45.900] have found it back, but they found it back in ways
[17:45.900 -> 17:48.820] that maybe they're generating a bit more outwash
[17:48.820 -> 17:51.860] than what the FIA had originally intended.
[17:51.860 -> 17:54.500] So there was four key areas that they mentioned.
[17:54.500 -> 17:56.700] Rear wings was the first one they said.
[17:56.700 -> 17:59.100] So what comes to mind when you think about rear wings?
[17:59.100 -> 18:01.840] Like what has changed from 2022 to 2023
[18:01.840 -> 18:02.860] when you think about rear wings?
[18:02.860 -> 18:04.180] Anything jump out?
[18:04.180 -> 18:05.780] End plates. Exactly.
[18:05.780 -> 18:06.840] What are people doing with the end plates now?
[18:06.840 -> 18:08.040] They're cutting them, right?
[18:08.040 -> 18:09.440] They're cutting them way back.
[18:09.440 -> 18:10.280] Yeah.
[18:10.280 -> 18:11.960] And so you don't really have an end plate
[18:11.960 -> 18:13.520] like you did in 2021.
[18:13.520 -> 18:15.600] You had these big stiff end plates
[18:15.600 -> 18:18.020] and you had these counter-rotating vortex pairs
[18:18.020 -> 18:19.280] which would come off the back,
[18:19.280 -> 18:20.680] but there were much smaller vortices.
[18:20.680 -> 18:22.320] Now they have the bigger vortices
[18:22.320 -> 18:24.280] because they don't have these standup end plates.
[18:24.280 -> 18:26.920] And so what happens is this is what's up washing the wake.
[18:26.920 -> 18:31.660] Okay, it's throwing the wake higher. So as you cut that end plate, you're reducing
[18:31.660 -> 18:36.040] the amount of circulation, which means you get less rotation in that vortex,
[18:36.040 -> 18:41.320] which means potentially, this is just my thought, you might not have as much up
[18:41.320 -> 18:46.080] wash of the wake. Yeah. Which means it could be hanging a little bit lower.
[18:46.080 -> 18:47.600] So that could contribute to it.
[18:47.600 -> 18:49.960] So the next thing they said was front wings.
[18:49.960 -> 18:50.800] What jumps out?
[18:50.800 -> 18:52.640] Anything jump out about front wings?
[18:52.640 -> 18:53.680] They're trimming the main plane
[18:53.680 -> 18:55.640] and the upper plane to kick outwash.
[18:55.640 -> 18:58.760] Yeah, and you got those Ferrari little,
[18:58.760 -> 19:01.400] it was Mercedes that first did the slot gap separators,
[19:01.400 -> 19:03.360] but Ferrari's running it now.
[19:03.360 -> 19:04.200] They're Ferraris now.
[19:04.200 -> 19:06.680] And then, yeah, exactly, they're Ferraris now.
[19:06.680 -> 19:09.880] And then you got that cut front wing end plate as well,
[19:09.880 -> 19:12.060] right, which is the outwashing end plate.
[19:12.060 -> 19:14.300] If you can outwash the front wing a bit,
[19:14.300 -> 19:16.840] then you can potentially wrap the front tire
[19:16.840 -> 19:18.800] and reduce the front tire wake some,
[19:18.800 -> 19:20.040] which is one of the reasons
[19:20.040 -> 19:21.560] they might be doing that potentially.
[19:21.560 -> 19:24.040] And then the other one was outwashing floor edges,
[19:24.040 -> 19:26.920] which I haven't seen as much, I have to be honest,
[19:26.920 -> 19:28.600] I haven't seen as much with the floor edges
[19:28.600 -> 19:30.960] that I think that is a problem.
[19:30.960 -> 19:34.840] But the rear brake duct winglets is really interesting one.
[19:34.840 -> 19:37.860] Because remember, we've seen a lot of work in that area.
[19:37.860 -> 19:39.160] So those four key areas,
[19:39.160 -> 19:41.040] what are your thoughts on this, Molly?
[19:41.040 -> 19:42.640] What is the FI gonna do?
[19:42.640 -> 19:44.480] I mean, where we go from here?
[19:44.480 -> 19:47.560] See, I talked about this last week.
[19:47.560 -> 19:48.680] NASCAR has the same problem,
[19:48.680 -> 19:51.400] exact same problem with their ground effect car,
[19:51.400 -> 19:53.800] where we're seeing, again, down forest loss
[19:53.800 -> 19:55.240] creeping up on trailing cars,
[19:55.240 -> 19:58.360] and they're working on figuring out the right way to do it.
[19:58.360 -> 20:00.520] They are looking at new mandatory pieces
[20:00.520 -> 20:01.640] in the ground effect.
[20:01.640 -> 20:04.040] I think that this is gonna turn into
[20:04.040 -> 20:05.600] something we'll roll down from the FIA. I think that them is going to turn into something we'll roll down from
[20:05.600 -> 20:10.080] the FIA. I think that them saying we know that this is what's going on, it's creeping back up.
[20:10.080 -> 20:15.440] I think personally, there's either likely going to be another TD or something will go into
[20:15.440 -> 20:19.520] regulations that, hey, your floor is going to have to do this, or you can't have this,
[20:19.520 -> 20:24.320] or your end plates are maybe going to have to do this. But I think they still want to let the teams
[20:24.320 -> 20:26.580] be able to do stuff and do what they're doing.
[20:26.580 -> 20:30.900] But I think that they might come in as a governing body, much like NASCAR is doing, and say,
[20:30.900 -> 20:34.500] it's got to be this now or no more of this, or you've got to do this in your floor, or
[20:34.500 -> 20:36.700] you have to have this edge here or something like that.
[20:36.700 -> 20:40.700] I think it's going to turn into that because they obviously understand that there is a
[20:40.700 -> 20:43.940] downforce loss, and they understand what's contributing to the downforce loss.
[20:43.940 -> 20:46.840] So rather than just be like, hey, yeah, this is the problem, shrug,
[20:46.840 -> 20:48.100] look at it and walk away.
[20:48.100 -> 20:49.800] I think that they're probably gonna step in
[20:49.800 -> 20:52.600] with something or something for the coming seasons.
[20:52.600 -> 20:55.320] Cause it seems like this problem is going to wind up
[20:55.320 -> 20:57.920] right back where they were in 2021,
[20:57.920 -> 21:00.000] which I don't think they anticipated.
[21:00.000 -> 21:02.080] So I think that there will be something coming.
[21:02.080 -> 21:04.640] Yeah, and so they're targeting based on what they said,
[21:04.640 -> 21:05.640] 2025, so it looks like they're targeting based on what they said 2025.
[21:05.640 -> 21:07.640] So it looks like they're not going to be
[21:07.640 -> 21:09.820] making any changes now because so many teams
[21:09.820 -> 21:14.320] I think are already into their 2024 car for some time now.
[21:14.320 -> 21:15.680] So that's probably a good move.
[21:15.680 -> 21:18.600] Yeah, the development cycle is quite far along.
[21:18.600 -> 21:21.440] So I agree if it's, I don't think that there's much
[21:21.440 -> 21:24.180] that they could do 2024 wise.
[21:24.180 -> 21:30.720] One point to specifically make is that anytime that you move an object through air, it will
[21:30.720 -> 21:31.720] create a wake.
[21:31.720 -> 21:36.840] And that's just because there's an energy transfer, which happens whenever you have
[21:36.840 -> 21:38.880] drag and downforce, right?
[21:38.880 -> 21:46.900] And that energy transfer results in basically an energy deficit, is in fact the weight that that object
[21:46.900 -> 21:52.760] leaves as it moves through air. And so it's impossible to get rid of the weight. Yes.
[21:52.760 -> 21:56.560] Because you are always going to be moving an object through air and teams will always
[21:56.560 -> 22:01.400] be looking for downforce. They don't want drag. No. But they will be looking for downforce.
[22:01.400 -> 22:07.260] Yes. And so if you're a spec series, yeah, you can implement spec arrow parts,
[22:07.260 -> 22:10.220] which makes it the same for everybody.
[22:10.220 -> 22:12.420] But in a constructor series like this,
[22:12.420 -> 22:15.260] people are always gonna be looking for more downforce,
[22:15.260 -> 22:16.700] which means they're gonna be finding
[22:16.700 -> 22:18.860] that the wake is gonna be growing over time.
[22:18.860 -> 22:21.660] I think this is just like kind of a natural progression
[22:21.660 -> 22:22.480] in our sport.
[22:22.480 -> 22:24.500] Yeah, this is one of those,
[22:24.500 -> 22:26.760] you don't know what you don't know with the regulations
[22:26.760 -> 22:28.800] and as teams are constructing,
[22:28.800 -> 22:30.200] it's something that you're learning
[22:30.200 -> 22:33.080] and that maybe wasn't anticipated with this regulation set.
[22:33.080 -> 22:34.560] And so it's obviously there,
[22:34.560 -> 22:36.200] you're gonna implement something corrective.
[22:36.200 -> 22:37.240] What that looks like, I don't know,
[22:37.240 -> 22:38.280] it seems like they know,
[22:38.280 -> 22:40.360] seems like they are going to figure out something.
[22:40.360 -> 22:42.880] And we've talked about this extensively,
[22:42.880 -> 22:49.140] where it's how you manage the wake and get the wake up out of the way for the trailing cars. And so I think that it'll
[22:49.140 -> 22:53.840] come down to something that they'll probably roll in for wake management or end plate shape
[22:53.840 -> 22:58.520] or something to kind of manage that the best they can, especially with that high volume
[22:58.520 -> 23:00.760] of air that you're excavating from the floors.
[23:00.760 -> 23:09.580] Yeah. So let's see what happens to the 2025 regulations. I think really thinking about this probably as well, looking forward to 2026 because the
[23:09.580 -> 23:14.720] other way that you can make following easier is to reduce the frontal area of the object
[23:14.720 -> 23:18.800] that's moving through the air, which comes right back to smaller cars, which we've all
[23:18.800 -> 23:20.720] been asking for for a long time.
[23:20.720 -> 23:25.280] And so they're saying in 2026, they want to reduce the size and the weight
[23:25.280 -> 23:30.040] of the cars again. I think I saw they were targeting like a 50 kilogram drop in weight,
[23:30.040 -> 23:33.760] but honestly, that's not enough. Like we need to do better than that.
[23:33.760 -> 23:38.120] Especially with a bigger ERS and a bigger electrical system that's coming with a higher
[23:38.120 -> 23:42.560] kilowatt output. Yes, the MGUH is gone, but you now need bigger energy store and all of
[23:42.560 -> 23:46.040] that stuff too. So I don't know where they're gonna get gains out of,
[23:46.040 -> 23:47.080] but we're gonna try.
[23:47.080 -> 23:48.600] We're both mechanical engineers.
[23:48.600 -> 23:51.120] And the one thing that mechanicals love
[23:51.120 -> 23:53.400] is structures and properties and materials.
[23:53.400 -> 23:55.920] And if we can start to advance the strength
[23:55.920 -> 23:58.820] of carbon fiber, you know, materials and things like that,
[23:58.820 -> 24:02.040] we can start to generate even lighter parts, right?
[24:02.040 -> 24:03.680] That have higher strength.
[24:03.680 -> 24:06.480] We've made huge advancements in this area.
[24:06.480 -> 24:09.200] You know, you look at just how safe cars are nowadays
[24:09.200 -> 24:12.080] compared to the way that they were 20 years ago, right?
[24:12.080 -> 24:15.280] For instance, a lot of this is attributable to changes
[24:15.280 -> 24:18.160] in the materials that engineers are able to use.
[24:18.160 -> 24:21.200] So hopefully some advances in that area could help.
[24:21.200 -> 24:22.560] I call it Ad Man.
[24:22.560 -> 24:23.400] Ad Man.
[24:23.400 -> 24:25.140] Yeah, additive manufacturing.
[24:25.140 -> 24:25.980] Ah, yes.
[24:25.980 -> 24:27.640] Where like what you can add into your materials,
[24:27.640 -> 24:30.780] 3D printing, all of your kind of advanced processes
[24:30.780 -> 24:33.100] that you can do along with what's going into that process.
[24:33.100 -> 24:35.140] So you can kind of do additives and like,
[24:35.140 -> 24:36.580] hey, I'm gonna 3D print this part
[24:36.580 -> 24:37.420] and then it's gonna be great
[24:37.420 -> 24:39.380] because we have a filament that if we do this to it,
[24:39.380 -> 24:41.740] it's gonna work even better than like a metal component.
[24:41.740 -> 24:42.900] It's gonna be even lighter.
[24:42.900 -> 24:48.480] So there's a lot of stuff going on, I think there as well. A lot of teams are trying, teams are looking for every ounce,
[24:48.480 -> 24:53.040] every gram, every way to improve strength, reduce weight without incurring a penalty.
[24:53.040 -> 24:55.760] Let's hope we get there sooner rather than later.
[24:55.760 -> 25:00.320] You kind of rattled something loose in my brain with this downforce loss on the floors and how
[25:00.320 -> 25:04.240] teams are finding more downforce in the result of more turbulent week. And it made me think of
[25:04.240 -> 25:05.200] a conversation
[25:05.200 -> 25:07.620] that we were having on Twitter with Brian Murphy, who
[25:07.620 -> 25:10.900] is former Stuart Haas racing over a NASCAR, where he was
[25:10.900 -> 25:12.420] talking about their ground effect
[25:12.420 -> 25:15.500] and how it is specced by NASCAR, what it has to be.
[25:15.500 -> 25:17.540] And it just kind of rattled around in my brain is,
[25:17.540 -> 25:20.660] we know that the FIA fully specs the Venturi tunnels, what
[25:20.660 -> 25:22.500] the inlets have, what some of the inlet geometry is,
[25:22.500 -> 25:23.660] and what the tunnel inlet has to be.
[25:23.660 -> 25:24.660] NASCAR also does that.
[25:24.660 -> 25:27.920] And Brian did mention that there are known performance flaws
[25:27.920 -> 25:30.040] in this floor that teams have to try and navigate
[25:30.040 -> 25:30.860] and work around.
[25:30.860 -> 25:33.000] And my brain just went, do we think,
[25:33.000 -> 25:35.760] and do you think that the BFA says
[25:35.760 -> 25:37.160] what must be true about the floor?
[25:37.160 -> 25:39.480] Has specific hindrances
[25:39.480 -> 25:42.300] or kind of negative performance features to it
[25:42.300 -> 25:44.280] that the teams have to kind of try and work around
[25:44.280 -> 25:50.320] in their floor development and in finding what that is and how to counteract that to get gains with
[25:50.320 -> 25:54.320] their downforce, do we think it's contributed to the wake problem? That's a really good question.
[25:54.320 -> 25:58.080] I mean, shout out to Brian Murphy, by the way. He's a great follow. Yes, shout out to Brian.
[25:58.080 -> 26:02.000] If you want to stop by, Brian, let us know anytime. Yeah, we'd love to have him on for sure.
[26:02.000 -> 26:09.360] So yeah, I would say most definitely, I mean, I think in Formula One, the regulation volume sets that they've established, they've done in such a way
[26:09.360 -> 26:14.160] because they want to. Great example being the changes they've made in 2023, where they changed
[26:14.160 -> 26:19.680] the diffuser throughout geometry, they raised the floor edge, everything they're doing, they're
[26:19.680 -> 26:26.720] trying to take away downforce in an area where you generate clean downforce. Okay? So that means
[26:26.720 -> 26:31.760] that when they do that, when they're changing those regulation volumes or hindering what you
[26:31.760 -> 26:35.920] can do in that area where you can generate downforce in a way that's not very dirty,
[26:36.960 -> 26:42.720] you now need to try to get downforce in other places where it might be a bit dirtier, right?
[26:42.720 -> 26:46.040] So I think that could be contributing to it. That's a really good question.
[26:46.040 -> 26:47.800] I'd not thought about that before,
[26:47.800 -> 26:49.120] but I think there's something to that.
[26:49.120 -> 26:51.760] That conversation, as it was happening, I was like,
[26:51.760 -> 26:53.920] I wonder if the F1 floor is the same thing.
[26:53.920 -> 26:57.140] It would make sense that there are these known hindrances
[26:57.140 -> 26:58.360] that that design carries.
[26:58.360 -> 27:01.180] I've never really totally been able to get my head around
[27:01.180 -> 27:04.160] what the intent of the FIAs was some of these changes
[27:04.160 -> 27:09.080] they make in Formula One, right? I mean I mean you look at what was it in 2015 2016
[27:09.080 -> 27:13.040] when they went to the tread tires and they moved away from the slicks somebody
[27:13.040 -> 27:17.080] on Twitter will tell us what the right time is. Essentially you know it was an
[27:17.080 -> 27:20.760] effort to try to reduce the amount of grit to maybe make you know racing
[27:20.760 -> 27:25.280] better or whatever because these cars weren't on the edge or like they could have
[27:25.280 -> 27:31.040] been a bit more wild horses you need to handle. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that in
[27:31.040 -> 27:35.920] doing some of that in with the air, with these aero regulations in the areas, like you said,
[27:35.920 -> 27:40.320] where you can generate a nice clean downforce, maybe they're sort of inadvertently causing
[27:40.320 -> 27:45.400] teams to have to chase dirty downforce. That could be making the wake problem worse.
[27:45.400 -> 27:46.600] Yeah, yeah, good shout.
[27:46.600 -> 27:50.000] Thanks, I was like, wait, wait, wait.
[27:50.000 -> 27:51.560] These series aren't as different
[27:51.560 -> 27:53.440] as everybody thinks that they are.
[27:55.000 -> 27:56.600] No, yeah, definitely.
[27:56.600 -> 27:59.920] And, you know, I mean, I guess in some conversations
[27:59.920 -> 28:01.880] we were having with Brian as well about, you know,
[28:01.880 -> 28:04.760] kind of brought us back to a conversation we had previously
[28:04.760 -> 28:07.240] with, you know, JR Hilde well about, you know, kind of brought us back to a conversation we had previously with, you know, JR Hildebrand on, you know,
[28:07.240 -> 28:10.600] on oval tracks with, you know, when they run the,
[28:10.600 -> 28:12.800] the strakes and how, when they have some negative rake,
[28:12.800 -> 28:14.400] they're able to find more downforce.
[28:14.400 -> 28:18.160] So even in the spec series where you have a spec aero kit
[28:18.160 -> 28:21.880] and everything, the ride height and, you know,
[28:21.880 -> 28:25.400] the ways that teams find to run the cars to get the most
[28:25.400 -> 28:31.240] lap time could change the wake profiles and everything that you think that they
[28:31.240 -> 28:35.160] should be doing. They could be going other directions and finding pace right?
[28:35.160 -> 28:36.880] So even in spec series, it's a challenge.
[28:36.880 -> 28:42.160] Even in F1 this season, I think we're seeing a negative rake trend. We've kind of talked about that too. We're seeing this kind of shift
[28:42.160 -> 28:45.680] towards that from a more neutral raked car to a slightly
[28:45.680 -> 28:50.960] neutral negative where you're just kind of a little bit negative on it to likely help with
[28:50.960 -> 28:55.760] downforce generation and suck the diffuser down, get the ride height a little bit lower down where
[28:55.760 -> 29:04.160] you have all that pressure generation. Drop it like it's hot, you know, I mean, get more rear end
[29:09.520 -> 29:16.240] is hot. I mean get more rear end downforce. That's something I thought I would never say on a podcast. So looking ahead now to the race this coming weekend, Singapore, the Singapore GP. Singapore
[29:16.240 -> 29:22.720] GP is, you know, it's a high downforce circuit so it's going to be kind of in that area of,
[29:22.720 -> 29:27.520] you know, maybe something we might have seen in Zandvoort at the Dutch Grand Prix.
[29:27.520 -> 29:29.440] Now the track has been changed.
[29:29.440 -> 29:31.640] Yes, I'm very intrigued by that.
[29:31.640 -> 29:33.800] Are you cued up to what the changes are
[29:33.800 -> 29:35.720] that have happened in Singapore?
[29:35.720 -> 29:38.000] It's in sector three, I know that.
[29:38.000 -> 29:40.840] I haven't had a chance to play it on F1 23
[29:40.840 -> 29:42.240] like you have yet.
[29:42.240 -> 29:44.240] I think a lot of people have been simming it up,
[29:44.240 -> 29:47.000] iracing it up, and F1 23ing it up. I haven I think a lot of people have been stimming it up, iracing it up and F-123ing it up.
[29:47.000 -> 29:48.760] I haven't had a lot of chance to do that.
[29:48.760 -> 29:51.360] So why don't you walk us through what those changes are?
[29:51.360 -> 29:53.440] Sure, yeah, so it is in sector three,
[29:53.440 -> 29:54.440] you're absolutely right.
[29:54.440 -> 29:56.800] So essentially they've taken out four corners.
[29:56.800 -> 29:59.800] So there used to be four low speed corners
[29:59.800 -> 30:00.720] and they've taken those out
[30:00.720 -> 30:02.040] and just replaced it with a straight.
[30:02.040 -> 30:03.120] Is that a DRS zone?
[30:03.120 -> 30:04.520] It's not a DRS zone.
[30:04.520 -> 30:06.880] I thought it might be because if you look at,
[30:06.880 -> 30:10.400] I think it's four, five, and six, or five, six, and seven,
[30:10.400 -> 30:12.340] which is sort of like directly opposite
[30:12.340 -> 30:16.280] from this section right here, which is turns 15 and 16.
[30:16.280 -> 30:18.240] That is a DRS zone on the opposite side.
[30:18.240 -> 30:19.960] So I thought, okay, maybe they might turn this
[30:19.960 -> 30:22.100] into a no dice, it's not a DRS zone.
[30:22.100 -> 30:23.680] So we still have three,
[30:23.680 -> 30:26.540] but they took out these four low speed corners there. I read that it's not a DRS zone, so we still have three. But they took out these four low-speed corners there.
[30:26.540 -> 30:29.580] I read that it's just because of some construction issues
[30:29.580 -> 30:30.980] that they're kind of having in that area
[30:30.980 -> 30:32.980] where they would normally put that track.
[30:32.980 -> 30:35.740] But so it's something that will come back in the future.
[30:35.740 -> 30:37.180] People are talking about, you know,
[30:37.180 -> 30:38.980] it eliminates four low-speed corners,
[30:38.980 -> 30:41.700] so how is this gonna kind of affect the dynamic of the race?
[30:41.700 -> 30:44.100] Is it gonna make maybe passing a little bit better?
[30:44.100 -> 30:46.120] Do you have any thoughts about maybe which teams
[30:46.120 -> 30:48.840] might be stronger or weaker in Singapore?
[30:48.840 -> 30:49.920] What we might expect?
[30:49.920 -> 30:52.640] I mean, please reference our previous conversation.
[30:52.640 -> 30:55.360] I think that Ferrari will likely struggle
[30:55.360 -> 30:57.560] with a high, medium, high downforce
[30:57.560 -> 30:58.400] that they're gonna go for.
[30:58.400 -> 30:59.760] It's a street track.
[30:59.760 -> 31:01.880] You're gonna wanna pack as much downforce as you can
[31:01.880 -> 31:04.600] onto your car for the most benefit through a street track,
[31:04.600 -> 31:05.560] especially one like this.
[31:05.560 -> 31:08.280] So I think that there could be some struggle there.
[31:08.280 -> 31:10.240] I don't know if they fully understand
[31:10.240 -> 31:12.200] what made that car so peaky and Zandvoort
[31:12.200 -> 31:14.160] and where their struggles come from with that.
[31:14.160 -> 31:16.600] So I think that that's going to be one
[31:16.600 -> 31:18.500] that I'm like, oh, I wanna have hopes,
[31:18.500 -> 31:21.440] especially because Charlotte Claire is so good at Singapore,
[31:21.440 -> 31:23.040] but much like the Detroit Lions,
[31:23.040 -> 31:24.360] I'm not gonna get my hopes up.
[31:24.360 -> 31:25.520] Hey, but they won the other night.
[31:25.520 -> 31:27.480] Oh my God, I don't even get to start.
[31:27.480 -> 31:29.800] Another time, not on the pod.
[31:29.800 -> 31:33.120] I think, is it McLaren that's shown really well
[31:33.120 -> 31:34.520] in the high-speed cornering,
[31:34.520 -> 31:37.440] or am I completely crazy since they brought their upgrade?
[31:37.440 -> 31:38.480] No, you're right.
[31:38.480 -> 31:39.320] Okay.
[31:39.320 -> 31:40.840] They were the best in Silverstone
[31:40.840 -> 31:41.760] in the high speeds.
[31:41.760 -> 31:42.880] Yeah. Through cops.
[31:42.880 -> 31:44.920] Okay, so part of me wants to say
[31:44.920 -> 31:45.040] maybe McLaren could have a good weekend. Okay. So part of me wants to say maybe
[31:45.040 -> 31:49.120] McLaren could have a good weekend. I think we're still all trying to make what we can of these
[31:49.120 -> 31:54.080] upgrades. But I think that knowing that they seem to do really well in high speed and their high
[31:54.080 -> 31:58.480] downforce seems okay, especially after Zandvoort, they could have a good weekend. I think obviously
[31:58.480 -> 32:01.920] we know Red Bull is gonna have a great weekend. I don't know if there's anybody else that you think
[32:01.920 -> 32:07.400] is either going to struggle or really stand out based on the downforce selection we're expecting and maybe kind
[32:07.400 -> 32:11.800] of the change to the track. Yeah I mean I think I would say that the easy one is
[32:11.800 -> 32:15.820] you know Red Bull should obviously be strong there just I think because they
[32:15.820 -> 32:19.680] have the most balance car not because you know that they're downforce monsters
[32:19.680 -> 32:23.240] or anything but I think they have a very well balanced car. Very efficient too I
[32:23.240 -> 32:27.680] would say. Yeah absolutely. Something that as you were talking that I just remembered
[32:27.680 -> 32:29.720] is that Singapore being a street track,
[32:29.720 -> 32:33.280] and I believe the curbs are quite nasty in Singapore,
[32:33.280 -> 32:35.720] which means that teams generally have to raise
[32:35.720 -> 32:37.940] the ride height, I think, for Singapore.
[32:37.940 -> 32:40.500] The other track where teams have a tendency
[32:40.500 -> 32:43.460] to raise the ride height as well as Spa
[32:43.460 -> 32:46.920] because of the compression through Eau Rouge.
[32:46.920 -> 32:50.080] And Ferrari had a good weekend in Spa
[32:50.080 -> 32:52.400] with the raised ride height.
[32:52.400 -> 32:55.360] Maybe there could be some hope there for the Tifosi.
[32:55.360 -> 32:56.640] Oh, that's a good point.
[32:56.640 -> 32:59.840] You know, because one way to get into a more smoother part
[32:59.840 -> 33:02.640] of your aero map is at higher ride heights as well.
[33:02.640 -> 33:04.500] You have a tendency to be a bit peakier
[33:04.500 -> 33:05.800] when you're in the lower ride height and you don't have as much like kind of aero map is that higher ride heights as well. You have a tendency to be a bit peakier when you're in the lower ride height
[33:05.800 -> 33:07.800] and you don't have as much like kind of
[33:07.800 -> 33:09.320] aero platform stability.
[33:09.320 -> 33:12.240] Yeah, and they were running pretty low in Zandvoort,
[33:12.240 -> 33:13.400] I think from what we saw.
[33:13.400 -> 33:14.960] We were, you kind of qualitatively,
[33:14.960 -> 33:16.840] you can look at photos and kind of frame of reference,
[33:16.840 -> 33:18.600] it looked like they were running pretty low in Zandvoort.
[33:18.600 -> 33:21.880] So maybe this could be a clue to that higher ride height
[33:21.880 -> 33:24.640] may kind of cancel out that peakiness that they're seeing
[33:24.640 -> 33:27.380] and that unpredictability with the high downforce setting. You said
[33:27.380 -> 33:30.460] that this is actually a fantastic point. They had a pretty good weekend in Spa.
[33:30.460 -> 33:34.260] I don't want to jump back too far. Did they have higher ride height at either
[33:34.260 -> 33:38.840] Bahrain or Jeddah as well earlier in the season? Am I insane? One of them's got
[33:38.840 -> 33:44.340] nasty curbs too. That's a good point. That's a good question. I'm not sure. I
[33:44.340 -> 33:49.080] want to say it's Jeddah because it's a street course and I think it's got some pretty nasty
[33:49.080 -> 33:50.080] curbs.
[33:50.080 -> 33:51.080] Yeah, it is.
[33:51.080 -> 33:53.120] Yeah, they actually were competitive in Jetta.
[33:53.120 -> 33:58.120] But I mean, as I'm cycling through the calendar for Ferrari, you know, there's a chance, you
[33:58.120 -> 34:00.400] know, with the higher ride height and the peakiness.
[34:00.400 -> 34:04.480] So okay, so they were P6 and P7 in Jetta.
[34:04.480 -> 34:06.760] Mercedes was P4, P5.
[34:06.760 -> 34:10.160] Red Bull was one and two and Aston was three.
[34:10.160 -> 34:12.280] So I don't know, it's a mixed bag.
[34:12.280 -> 34:14.240] We can't really make a whole lot of sense
[34:14.240 -> 34:16.800] out of what Ferrari's doing this year, unfortunately.
[34:16.800 -> 34:17.640] Yeah, it's hard.
[34:17.640 -> 34:19.000] I think it's the peakiness of the car.
[34:19.000 -> 34:20.520] But there could be something to it.
[34:20.520 -> 34:21.360] Yeah, there could be.
[34:21.360 -> 34:22.640] Hey, let's see what happens
[34:22.640 -> 34:24.480] by the time this podcast comes out
[34:24.480 -> 34:26.040] and then the results are later
[34:26.040 -> 34:27.960] and you're listening to this,
[34:27.960 -> 34:30.280] you can tag us and be like, you nailed that one.
[34:30.280 -> 34:31.280] Yes, please.
[34:31.280 -> 34:32.540] Yeah, definitely.
[34:32.540 -> 34:35.560] I mean, I think it's a pretty educated assessment though
[34:35.560 -> 34:36.380] to say that.
[34:36.380 -> 34:39.320] So maybe we are onto something, maybe we are.
[34:39.320 -> 34:40.380] There could be something there.
[34:40.380 -> 34:43.000] So I'm looking to see if we're gonna see more
[34:43.000 -> 34:45.360] of these high downforce rear wings with the
[34:45.360 -> 34:51.440] cut end plates as well, right? Just to reduce a bit of induced drag. I think Mercedes will have
[34:51.440 -> 34:57.840] a strong weekend because of the fact that they are doing really well in the low speed corners,
[34:57.840 -> 35:01.600] especially after they rolled out that new front wing. I think it was in Silverstone.
[35:01.600 -> 35:05.100] I'll be curious how the change to sector three will affect them though.
[35:05.100 -> 35:08.000] Will they be one of the weaker cars in sector three now?
[35:08.000 -> 35:09.800] Where like, if you break down sector times,
[35:09.800 -> 35:10.960] what that would do.
[35:10.960 -> 35:11.960] That's a very good point.
[35:11.960 -> 35:13.960] Could be strong in sectors one and two.
[35:13.960 -> 35:15.720] I think definitely in sector two,
[35:15.720 -> 35:17.360] if I'm remembering the map right.
[35:17.360 -> 35:20.640] Sector three might be a bit of a struggle potentially.
[35:20.640 -> 35:23.560] But I think Mercedes in general will have,
[35:23.560 -> 35:27.000] I think a strong weekend also because they have a tendency
[35:27.000 -> 35:28.640] to be kind on the tires as well.
[35:28.640 -> 35:31.200] Now the early reports are that it's gonna rain
[35:31.200 -> 35:32.540] for three days.
[35:32.540 -> 35:37.540] So yeah, this is the rainiest season ever.
[35:37.680 -> 35:41.960] Oh my God, that's gonna be interesting.
[35:41.960 -> 35:44.920] It could change, it could change hopefully, you know.
[35:44.920 -> 35:47.480] Hoping for a mixed bag weekend.
[35:47.480 -> 35:48.320] Yeah.
[35:48.320 -> 35:50.360] I always loved the great field leveler, right?
[35:50.360 -> 35:51.400] Yeah, it is.
[35:51.400 -> 35:53.060] It is, it could make it very interesting,
[35:53.060 -> 35:55.760] but you know, with a street course like Singapore,
[35:55.760 -> 35:57.600] it could also make it a bit of, you know,
[35:57.600 -> 35:59.120] Mad Max Thunderdome.
[35:59.120 -> 35:59.960] Yeah.
[35:59.960 -> 36:01.240] It'd be very interesting.
[36:01.240 -> 36:02.080] So.
[36:02.080 -> 36:06.080] So there are minor upgrades that are rumored for Red Bull.
[36:06.080 -> 36:09.240] I think these are just going to be track specific upgrades.
[36:09.240 -> 36:10.880] I don't expect anything major.
[36:10.880 -> 36:11.760] I don't either.
[36:11.760 -> 36:13.800] McLaren's the interesting one though.
[36:13.800 -> 36:14.640] Yes.
[36:14.640 -> 36:15.840] Because McLaren has said
[36:15.840 -> 36:17.720] that they are gonna bring some upgrades
[36:17.720 -> 36:19.840] and that the car that they have,
[36:19.840 -> 36:21.800] I don't know if they have a model in the wind tunnel yet,
[36:21.800 -> 36:24.960] but basically what they're saying is their 2024 car
[36:24.960 -> 36:26.640] that they have or the design that they have
[36:26.640 -> 36:28.480] is already bringing a lot of gains
[36:28.480 -> 36:29.920] and that there are some parts
[36:29.920 -> 36:32.320] that they're going to be testing this year,
[36:32.320 -> 36:35.520] which will be looking forward to the 2024 car.
[36:35.520 -> 36:36.720] So we might get an idea
[36:36.720 -> 36:38.240] of maybe some of the things they're thinking.
[36:38.240 -> 36:41.120] And apparently they're bringing some upgrades to Singapore.
[36:41.120 -> 36:42.120] So this could change.
[36:42.120 -> 36:46.100] I'm so intrigued and so excited to see what those are,
[36:46.100 -> 36:49.000] especially because McLaren's out of their own wind tunnel,
[36:49.000 -> 36:53.200] finally, their new in-house wind tunnel came online
[36:53.200 -> 36:55.000] at walking this summer.
[36:55.000 -> 36:57.480] So they are in their brand new state of the art
[36:57.480 -> 36:58.540] on-site wind tunnel.
[36:58.540 -> 37:01.280] They are not using Toyota's wartime one anymore.
[37:01.280 -> 37:02.720] Nothing against wartime wind tunnels.
[37:02.720 -> 37:04.720] Alpha Tauri is still in one that developed, what,
[37:04.720 -> 37:06.080] fighter jets for the UK? Like, nothing against wartime wind tunnels. Alpha Taurea is still in one that developed, what, fighter jets for the UK?
[37:06.080 -> 37:08.480] Like, nothing against wartime wind tunnels at all.
[37:08.480 -> 37:10.480] It's just have that resource in house to them,
[37:10.480 -> 37:12.420] I think is gonna be a really quick benefit
[37:12.420 -> 37:13.320] because they don't have to fight
[37:13.320 -> 37:14.640] for wind tunnel timer schedule,
[37:14.640 -> 37:15.840] especially when it's not theirs.
[37:15.840 -> 37:17.220] And it's right there in house
[37:17.220 -> 37:18.560] and it's short turnaround time too.
[37:18.560 -> 37:20.760] It adds an agility to their operation
[37:20.760 -> 37:22.040] that I think they didn't have in the past.
[37:22.040 -> 37:23.560] And so I'm really, really curious
[37:23.560 -> 37:25.520] what that could be that they're bringing.
[37:25.520 -> 37:30.560] Yeah. Really good point on the wind tunnel there, Molly. I mean, just the pace at which
[37:30.560 -> 37:37.880] you can go through different aerodynamic changes, adjustments, optimizations to ultimately land
[37:37.880 -> 37:42.560] on the final best piece that you're going to put on your car. I mean, I was on another
[37:42.560 -> 37:46.400] podcast previously that I was guest hosting and I had the chance
[37:46.400 -> 37:49.520] to talk to Yost Capito from Williams and I asked him,
[37:49.520 -> 37:52.520] what's one of the biggest differences between
[37:52.520 -> 37:54.600] the big teams and the small teams?
[37:54.600 -> 37:57.240] And what he said was the pace with which
[37:57.240 -> 38:00.600] with the bigger teams can kind of develop a car
[38:00.600 -> 38:03.880] is almost like twice as fast as what the smaller teams
[38:03.880 -> 38:05.600] can do because they have all
[38:05.600 -> 38:06.600] these things.
[38:06.600 -> 38:11.880] They have the wind tunnel access, they have the computing power and everything for CFTs
[38:11.880 -> 38:16.560] and manufacturing as well, to manufacture the parts and go through and do everything.
[38:16.560 -> 38:17.560] Yeah, they have that.
[38:17.560 -> 38:22.120] I would say they have that infrastructure compared to some of maybe the non-factory
[38:22.120 -> 38:25.720] operations or some of the smaller operations that are out there.
[38:25.720 -> 38:26.560] 100%.
[38:26.560 -> 38:28.080] So I'm looking forward to Singapore.
[38:28.080 -> 38:28.920] I am too.
[38:28.920 -> 38:29.740] Unless it rains.
[38:29.740 -> 38:31.080] Let's hope we get some racing.
[38:31.080 -> 38:32.520] Let's hope it's not like a spa.
[38:32.520 -> 38:33.360] What was that?
[38:33.360 -> 38:34.180] 2020 was it?
[38:34.180 -> 38:35.360] Was that 21?
[38:35.360 -> 38:36.560] Yeah, that was 21.
[38:36.560 -> 38:37.960] I love that race for the memes
[38:37.960 -> 38:39.280] because I'm a meme queen.
[38:39.280 -> 38:40.960] That is my title around the cubed,
[38:40.960 -> 38:43.040] but man, I wanted some racing.
[38:43.040 -> 38:45.360] Yeah, we definitely want some racing.
[38:45.360 -> 38:47.840] Singapore is also the one where they run the race
[38:47.840 -> 38:50.480] really late at night, local time, right?
[38:50.480 -> 38:53.640] It's so they keep everybody on UK time.
[38:53.640 -> 38:55.680] It's so that everybody stays in the time zone
[38:55.680 -> 38:57.320] that they are used to.
[38:57.320 -> 38:59.040] So it means like you're sleeping during the day
[38:59.040 -> 39:02.040] up for your sessions at like 9 p.m. time there.
[39:02.040 -> 39:03.360] It's like a normal session time
[39:03.360 -> 39:05.080] on one of the European races. Yeah, and then all that goes out the window when they go to Suzuka.m. time there. It's like a normal session time on one of the European races.
[39:05.080 -> 39:07.040] Yeah, and then all that goes out the window
[39:07.040 -> 39:08.040] when they go to Suzuka.
[39:08.040 -> 39:09.280] Singapore should be great.
[39:09.280 -> 39:13.080] My hot take is I think Red Bull will be strong.
[39:13.080 -> 39:14.760] I think Mercedes will be right there.
[39:14.760 -> 39:18.220] And then let's see what comes from the Aston,
[39:18.220 -> 39:20.600] I would say, and from the McLaren.
[39:20.600 -> 39:22.160] I think at that point, then it's,
[39:22.160 -> 39:24.800] they're kind of fighting for maybe behind Mercedes.
[39:24.800 -> 39:27.200] Yeah, I think it's gonna be interesting and the threat of rain
[39:27.200 -> 39:31.420] could throw all of that out the window and shake that up. So absolutely. So we
[39:31.420 -> 39:37.500] are now into our tech bias segment, which you know we've been nerding out now for
[39:37.500 -> 39:43.740] 45 minutes anyway. We get a chance now to spotlight nerd. So Molly, you have a
[39:43.740 -> 39:46.000] really interesting tech bias segment.
[39:46.000 -> 39:47.360] Would you like to walk us through it?
[39:47.360 -> 39:48.200] Absolutely.
[39:48.200 -> 39:51.280] I think it's perfect timing to talk about this
[39:51.280 -> 39:54.080] right in line with the Singapore Grand Prix coming up
[39:54.080 -> 39:57.660] because this is something that actually affects cars
[39:57.660 -> 39:58.840] at the Singapore Grand Prix.
[39:58.840 -> 40:01.440] And it's, everybody kind of has their theories
[40:01.440 -> 40:04.200] and everybody has like why behind this,
[40:04.200 -> 40:06.240] but the Singapore track is actually
[40:06.240 -> 40:12.320] notorious for electrically interfering with F1 cars. And there's some people who claim it's
[40:12.320 -> 40:17.360] contributed DNFs, but there's actually electrical interference that happens naturally at this track
[40:17.360 -> 40:23.280] that teams and cars have to be protected for. And in turn 13 and 14, there is a bridge that the track
[40:23.280 -> 40:26.240] runs near that the concrete pylons
[40:26.240 -> 40:29.840] actually have steel in them for the magnetic railway
[40:29.840 -> 40:33.520] that winds up getting magnetized for the rail system
[40:33.520 -> 40:36.580] that runs with the turn 13, 14 complex.
[40:36.580 -> 40:38.400] I think it's under turn 13, 14,
[40:38.400 -> 40:40.640] but the beams wind up magnetized because of it.
[40:40.640 -> 40:42.080] Why does that cause issues?
[40:42.080 -> 40:45.560] Why does it cause abnormal sensor readings for the teams?
[40:45.560 -> 40:48.600] Goes into like, I wanna call it EMC,
[40:48.600 -> 40:51.040] which is electromagnetic compatibility,
[40:51.040 -> 40:53.260] where like, cause of this magnetic field
[40:53.260 -> 40:56.400] and the frequency and the H field that it puts off,
[40:56.400 -> 40:59.740] it runs in the same frequencies and generates a field
[40:59.740 -> 41:02.280] that actually messes with the electronics
[41:02.280 -> 41:04.400] and the sensors on these F1 cars
[41:04.400 -> 41:06.460] and can actually cause false reporting.
[41:06.460 -> 41:08.340] It can kind of suck the life out of them.
[41:08.340 -> 41:11.260] It can actually, and so in preparation for this weekend,
[41:11.260 -> 41:12.820] and this is where like my tech bias is,
[41:12.820 -> 41:14.180] is how do you prepare for Singapore?
[41:14.180 -> 41:17.740] Teams will actually begin to put special shielding
[41:17.740 -> 41:20.060] and extra shielding on their sensors,
[41:20.060 -> 41:21.700] on their looms and harnesses,
[41:21.700 -> 41:24.780] so that that noise from that magnetic field
[41:24.780 -> 41:26.100] can't disturb
[41:26.100 -> 41:29.900] the fields that are already generated and the electrical currents that's already in
[41:29.900 -> 41:30.900] the system.
[41:30.900 -> 41:32.740] So they'll add extra wrapping to harnesses.
[41:32.740 -> 41:35.380] There will be different things that they'll put around sensors depending on the sensor
[41:35.380 -> 41:40.220] type basically to help shield from this field that gets generated as they come through turn
[41:40.220 -> 41:41.500] 13, 14.
[41:41.500 -> 41:44.140] And so it was kind of a mysterious thing for a while.
[41:44.140 -> 41:45.980] And I mean, when I say shielding, some of this
[41:45.980 -> 41:50.440] stuff is as simple as aluminum foil. They're not really using aluminum foil. Hopefully,
[41:50.440 -> 41:54.680] we get some good internal shots and we can see the shielding on some of the cars with
[41:54.680 -> 41:58.840] their engine covers and stuff off. With power units out, we can see some of that shielding.
[41:58.840 -> 42:02.720] I thought that that was just a fun little nerdy fact about Singapore that there is special
[42:02.720 -> 42:09.760] specific track prep that has to go into these cars that are coming. So the freight set that would have gone with the car would have this
[42:09.760 -> 42:14.080] in it, that it would have had to be prepared accordingly because we know the rotating sets of
[42:14.080 -> 42:19.040] cargo and car parts would have to make sure that they have the shielding in the car or in this
[42:19.040 -> 42:25.280] cargo set ready to go for car prep and set up for the weekend. That's really interesting.
[42:25.280 -> 42:27.240] And my mind is going to,
[42:27.240 -> 42:29.960] if we're seeing an FP1 cars running
[42:29.960 -> 42:32.120] with what looks like arrow rakes around them,
[42:32.120 -> 42:33.280] oh, that's not an arrow rake,
[42:33.280 -> 42:35.160] that's actually a Faraday cage.
[42:35.160 -> 42:36.000] Yeah.
[42:36.000 -> 42:36.820] To bring it in.
[42:36.820 -> 42:37.660] To bring it in.
[42:37.660 -> 42:39.160] I wouldn't that be funny?
[42:39.160 -> 42:40.000] For anybody who's like,
[42:40.000 -> 42:41.960] if you wanna know a good real life example,
[42:41.960 -> 42:43.240] EMC or stuff like this,
[42:43.240 -> 42:44.760] when you have a key fob, right?
[42:44.760 -> 42:45.200] Yeah. The fact that my key fob, right?
[42:45.200 -> 42:48.660] The fact that my key fob honks only my car,
[42:48.660 -> 42:51.480] when I click it to find it, that's EMC.
[42:51.480 -> 42:54.120] That's that frequency that gets put out
[42:54.120 -> 42:55.940] that allows my car to honk.
[42:55.940 -> 42:58.480] And if it's disturbed, if it runs in a band
[42:58.480 -> 43:00.000] that's maybe similar to someone else's,
[43:00.000 -> 43:01.900] someone else's car would honk at me.
[43:01.900 -> 43:03.700] Same thing with like a garage door opener.
[43:03.700 -> 43:06.560] You open your garage door, it opens only yours.
[43:06.560 -> 43:09.000] And so it's that compatibility of frequency
[43:09.000 -> 43:10.620] doesn't open everybody else's.
[43:10.620 -> 43:11.500] It's that one thing.
[43:11.500 -> 43:13.080] And there was a disturbance.
[43:13.080 -> 43:14.780] I could open everybody else's
[43:14.780 -> 43:16.360] or I could honk everybody else's car
[43:16.360 -> 43:17.400] as I'm looking for my own.
[43:17.400 -> 43:18.880] That's a great take-by segment.
[43:18.880 -> 43:20.680] That translates to a lot of things,
[43:20.680 -> 43:23.080] you know, not just Formula One racing in Singapore.
[43:23.080 -> 43:25.040] If you think about all the shielding
[43:25.040 -> 43:30.160] that are in airplanes, then you'll really appreciate why they should shield things.
[43:30.160 -> 43:33.920] What do you have for us in your Tech Bias segment?
[43:33.920 -> 43:39.520] Okay, so for my Tech Bias segment, what I wanted to do was talk about the differences between the
[43:39.520 -> 43:46.960] AMR-22 and the AMR-23. So as you can see on the screen here, you've got the original AMR 22,
[43:46.960 -> 43:53.200] not the one they rolled out like midway. Yeah, this is the OG right the spaceship. So I think
[43:53.200 -> 43:56.800] the first thing that I'm gonna try to draw on here while we're doing this, the first thing that
[43:57.600 -> 44:07.640] shows up is just how big the undercut is on the original AMR 22. Now we all know you know Red Bull, the
[44:07.640 -> 44:12.180] RB19, the RB18 have a really strong undercut. A lot of other teams have been
[44:12.180 -> 44:16.660] working the undercut. The undercut is good, right? We like the undercut. Yes.
[44:16.660 -> 44:20.760] It gives you basically nice clean air to the rear part of the car which you can
[44:20.760 -> 44:24.320] run over the top of the diffuser. You can drive the diffuser harder, things like
[44:24.320 -> 44:25.100] that. So why in the world did the AMR 22 notuser. You can drive the diffuser harder, things like that.
[44:25.100 -> 44:28.260] So why in the world did the AMR 22 not work?
[44:28.260 -> 44:31.460] You know, this is a 22 up here, the top one,
[44:31.460 -> 44:33.580] this is a 23 down here on the bottom.
[44:33.580 -> 44:35.840] So why did the AMR 22 not work?
[44:35.840 -> 44:36.680] You would think it would
[44:36.680 -> 44:39.060] because you see the massive amount of space
[44:39.060 -> 44:40.620] that you can send air to the back
[44:40.620 -> 44:42.260] through this big undercut.
[44:42.260 -> 44:44.880] And if you compare that to the AMR 23,
[44:44.880 -> 44:48.520] you'll see that the forward part of the AMR 23
[44:48.520 -> 44:51.940] actually has a down sloping undercut.
[44:51.940 -> 44:54.680] So that forward undercut is not straight back
[44:54.680 -> 44:57.440] or as straight back as it is in the AMR 22.
[44:57.440 -> 44:59.160] It's actually kind of flat
[44:59.160 -> 45:01.440] where you have a really thin intake
[45:01.440 -> 45:03.320] and then it's sort of down slopes
[45:03.320 -> 45:05.200] before it then becomes flat again
[45:05.200 -> 45:07.860] for the side part of the undercut for the mid.
[45:07.860 -> 45:09.040] We call it the mid undercut,
[45:09.040 -> 45:10.440] the forward undercut and the mid undercut.
[45:10.440 -> 45:12.160] So what was the biggest difference?
[45:12.160 -> 45:15.460] Well, the first thing I believe that was wrong
[45:15.460 -> 45:18.120] with the AMR-22 is the fact that they were not able
[45:18.120 -> 45:21.720] to generate much forward floor pressurization.
[45:21.720 -> 45:24.280] So if you compare to the AMR-23,
[45:24.280 -> 45:26.620] you'll see that right underneath the intake
[45:26.620 -> 45:27.980] where it starts to slope down,
[45:27.980 -> 45:30.300] you actually generate some static pressure
[45:30.300 -> 45:31.520] in the front part.
[45:31.520 -> 45:33.940] And this static pressure right here
[45:33.940 -> 45:35.820] serves a couple of purposes.
[45:35.820 -> 45:39.220] The first thing that it does is as the air starts to come
[45:39.220 -> 45:42.380] from the front wing, you know, on the inside of the tire
[45:42.380 -> 45:45.120] and is moving over the top of the floor,
[45:45.120 -> 45:48.240] it sees this big pressure zone
[45:48.240 -> 45:51.240] and you can actually move air with pressure
[45:51.240 -> 45:53.680] like you can move air with solid objects.
[45:53.680 -> 45:56.440] And so this pressure zone is actually causing the air
[45:56.440 -> 45:58.080] to kind of move out to the side.
[45:58.080 -> 46:00.940] Well, this is really good for the front tire wake
[46:00.940 -> 46:03.440] to keep the front tire wake management out sideways.
[46:03.440 -> 46:05.440] So that's the first thing that you didn't have
[46:05.440 -> 46:09.580] in the AMR23 is you didn't have that forward pressurization
[46:09.580 -> 46:12.000] because it never really sloped down.
[46:12.000 -> 46:14.240] It just kind of slopes straight back
[46:14.240 -> 46:16.600] and you didn't generate as much
[46:16.600 -> 46:18.800] of sort of a static pressure zone
[46:18.800 -> 46:21.280] on the front part of the side pod here
[46:21.280 -> 46:23.740] to help manage that front tire wake.
[46:23.740 -> 46:26.480] The other thing that it does is the air that's moving
[46:26.480 -> 46:29.520] over the top of the floor, it sees this pressure zone
[46:29.520 -> 46:31.560] and where it wants to go is away from it.
[46:31.560 -> 46:34.660] So it wants to go then out here.
[46:34.660 -> 46:37.200] Air is always gonna take the easy path out.
[46:37.200 -> 46:39.720] Exactly, so it wants to go out here to the floor edge.
[46:39.720 -> 46:40.840] Path of least resistance.
[46:40.840 -> 46:42.420] Exactly, the forward floor edge.
[46:42.420 -> 46:47.600] So then as it's following that path of least resistance, this forward floor edge is also where you
[46:47.600 -> 46:53.400] have the outwashing tunnels. So as you're moving air over that section right there,
[46:53.400 -> 46:57.000] it helps you to drive the outwash from the forward tunnels, which helps you to
[46:57.000 -> 47:00.360] power up your floor because you can get a stronger vortex into your floor. So
[47:00.360 -> 47:03.960] that's the other thing that it's not doing. But I think the biggest thing that
[47:03.960 -> 47:05.120] the AMR 22 was not doing compared to the AMR 23 it's not doing. But I think the biggest thing that the AMR 22
[47:05.120 -> 47:07.320] was not doing compared to the AMR 23,
[47:07.320 -> 47:09.040] and this is something that I think applies
[47:09.040 -> 47:10.800] for a lot of cars on the grid
[47:10.800 -> 47:12.860] who now have this forward undercut,
[47:12.860 -> 47:15.920] is they're able to pressurize the top part of the floor
[47:15.920 -> 47:18.420] like you see here to help generate
[47:18.420 -> 47:21.600] a little bit more forward COP.
[47:21.600 -> 47:24.840] So remember we were talking about that forward COP.
[47:24.840 -> 47:27.600] So if you have higher pressure on top of the floor
[47:27.600 -> 47:30.000] and naturally you have some lower pressure
[47:30.000 -> 47:31.080] underneath the floor.
[47:31.080 -> 47:32.860] Remember we said the forward part of the floor
[47:32.860 -> 47:36.160] is generating suction in the rear part of the floor as well.
[47:36.160 -> 47:39.360] Naturally putting more pressure on top of the floor
[47:39.360 -> 47:40.620] helps with that as well.
[47:40.620 -> 47:43.000] So you can generate more load forward.
[47:43.000 -> 47:45.160] So I think there's those three components
[47:45.160 -> 47:48.920] that really made the AMR 22 not a great car
[47:48.920 -> 47:51.400] that makes the AMR 23 now a better car
[47:51.400 -> 47:54.000] because it has this forward undercut
[47:54.000 -> 47:55.800] and it has a bit more of this kind
[47:55.800 -> 47:57.360] of front tire wake management,
[47:57.360 -> 48:00.520] has a bit more forward floor pressurization,
[48:00.520 -> 48:03.240] but it's also as you create that forward floor
[48:03.240 -> 48:06.980] pressurization, you also are able to sweep cleaner air
[48:06.980 -> 48:09.740] and protect that air that's going through the undercut
[48:09.740 -> 48:12.860] versus in this case with the AMR 22,
[48:12.860 -> 48:15.460] if you don't have that four floor pressurization,
[48:15.460 -> 48:17.540] you're not able to push that front tire wake out,
[48:17.540 -> 48:21.340] you can actually ingest all that trash into the undercut
[48:21.340 -> 48:23.780] and now it's no longer clear air going to the back.
[48:23.780 -> 48:24.600] I was just saying,
[48:24.600 -> 48:25.200] we talked a lot about like blowing up vortices. it's no longer clear going to the back. I was gonna say, we talked a lot about
[48:25.200 -> 48:26.800] like blowing up vortices.
[48:26.800 -> 48:28.320] That's what that would contribute to
[48:28.320 -> 48:30.800] in that when you ingest all of that garbage,
[48:30.800 -> 48:32.880] it's gonna be garbage in, garbage out,
[48:32.880 -> 48:34.960] and you're gonna destroy all of that nice,
[48:34.960 -> 48:37.240] really good vortex you've generated
[48:37.240 -> 48:38.880] and you're trying to use.
[48:38.880 -> 48:39.720] Exactly.
[48:39.720 -> 48:42.680] You know, I just, I wanted to just kind of explain that
[48:42.680 -> 48:44.840] and show that to people because I think that
[48:44.840 -> 48:47.400] we naturally always think of undercuts being good.
[48:47.400 -> 48:50.500] And undercuts are good, but it has to be managed
[48:50.500 -> 48:52.760] in a way that makes it good.
[48:52.760 -> 48:54.880] And that's something that I think Red Bull
[48:54.880 -> 48:57.040] was very good at early on,
[48:57.040 -> 48:58.860] and maybe others kind of struggled with.
[48:58.860 -> 49:01.180] If you remember the McLaren, the first McLaren
[49:01.180 -> 49:04.440] that they had, the MCL36, right?
[49:04.440 -> 49:08.120] It had a very bluff front part of the side pod.
[49:08.120 -> 49:10.540] So I think they were generating a whole lot
[49:10.540 -> 49:12.400] of forward floor pressurization,
[49:12.400 -> 49:15.840] but I think it was coming at the detriment of drag
[49:15.840 -> 49:19.060] because that static pressure is drag right there.
[49:19.060 -> 49:20.920] So it's contributing to your drag.
[49:20.920 -> 49:22.320] So you need a balance.
[49:22.320 -> 49:25.240] You need a balance of getting a little bit of drag,
[49:25.240 -> 49:28.240] but getting a lot more load out of that drag.
[49:28.240 -> 49:30.280] So that's the efficiency we talk about.
[49:30.280 -> 49:32.160] Drag to downforce ratio.
[49:32.160 -> 49:33.800] Exactly, the aero efficiency.
[49:33.800 -> 49:36.840] So that's my tech bias segment there,
[49:36.840 -> 49:38.600] and I will stop sharing now.
[49:38.600 -> 49:42.440] Showing some love for the AMR23
[49:42.440 -> 49:44.760] and all of the development that they've done
[49:44.760 -> 49:47.200] to turn that into a pretty cool car.
[49:47.200 -> 49:53.440] Absolutely. That is a great car. I think we share it. We were big fans of what Aston Martin is doing.
[49:53.440 -> 49:57.280] Absolutely. Aren't they getting their own wind tunnel soon too? I thought they were working
[49:57.280 -> 50:01.920] on a wind tunnel. They are, yeah. When I was at the British Grand Prix, I saw it with my eyes.
[50:01.920 -> 50:05.760] They were building that wind tunnel out there And it's going to be very impressive.
[50:05.760 -> 50:10.520] So I believe they use the Mercedes wind tunnel right now.
[50:10.520 -> 50:12.600] I can confirm that they use the Mercedes tunnel.
[50:12.600 -> 50:14.280] And so once they get their own wind tunnel,
[50:14.280 -> 50:16.240] then you know, they can do whatever they want in there.
[50:16.240 -> 50:18.560] Dan Fallows is already cooking.
[50:18.560 -> 50:20.900] I cannot wait to see what more he cooks
[50:20.900 -> 50:22.440] with a wind tunnel on site.
[50:22.440 -> 50:24.120] That team is headed in the right direction.
[50:24.120 -> 50:26.060] And ever since they took a little bit of detour
[50:26.060 -> 50:27.420] after the Canada upgrades,
[50:27.420 -> 50:29.160] it looked like the changes that they've made
[50:29.160 -> 50:31.380] since the Dutch Grand Prix have been helpful.
[50:31.380 -> 50:33.500] Now, obviously I think Monza was never gonna be
[50:33.500 -> 50:34.340] their strong suit,
[50:34.340 -> 50:36.300] because they're just not top speed monsters.
[50:36.300 -> 50:37.940] Monza is such a unique track.
[50:37.940 -> 50:39.860] It's such a one-off too.
[50:39.860 -> 50:41.820] I love Monza, but it's a terrible data point
[50:41.820 -> 50:43.580] from like a tech standpoint, in my opinion.
[50:43.580 -> 50:46.960] I don't think it's a great benchmark for much
[50:46.960 -> 50:50.640] outside of like low downforce or just Monza spec period.
[50:50.640 -> 50:51.480] That's right.
[50:51.480 -> 50:52.920] What do engineers talk about?
[50:52.920 -> 50:55.600] They say, you don't design your car for Monaco.
[50:55.600 -> 50:57.340] And I would say you probably don't design your car
[50:57.340 -> 50:58.260] for Monza either.
[50:58.260 -> 51:00.920] So it's the two M's you don't design for.
[51:00.920 -> 51:03.480] Yeah, those are kind of your special one-offs
[51:03.480 -> 51:08.480] where you're gonna do something for those, obviously, but that's not the entire kind of strategy
[51:08.480 -> 51:11.160] of your car and you don't design everything for that.
[51:11.360 -> 51:11.920] That's right.
[51:12.000 -> 51:15.800] So we've talked through the Italian GP, we've talked through Singapore,
[51:15.800 -> 51:17.160] we've done our tech bias segments.
[51:17.160 -> 51:21.960] Any last thoughts or things you want to talk about before we end the podcast
[51:21.960 -> 51:22.280] episode?
[51:22.760 -> 51:26.840] I think from my side, you know, I'm just in closing thoughts and things.
[51:26.840 -> 51:30.140] I would say, I'm really looking forward to Singapore.
[51:30.140 -> 51:32.180] I hope we don't get a wet race.
[51:32.180 -> 51:33.400] I hope we get a dry race.
[51:33.400 -> 51:36.000] We're able to see really what the track has to offer,
[51:36.000 -> 51:39.160] but I am keen to see maybe a bit closer racing
[51:39.160 -> 51:41.680] because this will be in Red Bull themselves have said,
[51:41.680 -> 51:44.200] this is gonna be kind of one of our weakest tracks.
[51:44.200 -> 51:46.120] So I'm keen to see if we can get a good battle
[51:46.120 -> 51:47.680] between Red Bull and Mercedes
[51:47.680 -> 51:49.360] and maybe somebody else creeping up there
[51:49.360 -> 51:52.220] if it's like McLaren or if it's Aston Martin.
[51:52.220 -> 51:53.060] What about you?
[51:53.060 -> 51:54.080] I'm really excited for Singapore.
[51:54.080 -> 51:55.920] I think there's a lot of factors
[51:55.920 -> 51:58.040] that always kind of go into this race and this weekend.
[51:58.040 -> 51:59.200] And it always kind of is,
[51:59.200 -> 52:00.200] I don't wanna say like a wild card,
[52:00.200 -> 52:01.040] but it always is,
[52:01.040 -> 52:03.360] I think one of the more exciting races of the year.
[52:03.360 -> 52:06.320] Street tracks are always fun in my opinion. They're scary, but they're fun.
[52:07.040 -> 52:11.360] I'm looking forward to there's a lot with this race between the upgrades, the track changes.
[52:11.360 -> 52:16.080] You said I hope that it does stay a little bit drier or we do get a dry session so that
[52:16.080 -> 52:20.960] we can get to see the new track with some decently represented lap times and how the
[52:20.960 -> 52:24.640] teams will handle that, the cars will handle that. I'm looking forward to the weekend.
[52:24.640 -> 52:27.840] I think that there is going to be a lot of cool stuff coming out of Singapore and then
[52:27.840 -> 52:32.640] right into Suzuka. I think we're in for a couple of really good race weekends and there's a lot
[52:32.640 -> 52:38.160] of good stuff coming up. Absolutely. Well, Molly, I think I speak for both of us when I say that we're
[52:38.160 -> 52:48.320] having a great time with Breaking Bias Pod. Episode three is another banger. Third time's a charm. Absolutely, if you are not subscribed
[52:48.320 -> 52:51.080] to our YouTube channel where you can find these videos,
[52:51.080 -> 52:52.760] make sure and subscribe there.
[52:52.760 -> 52:56.440] You know, follow along on Spotify and iTunes
[52:56.440 -> 52:57.720] and all that kind of stuff.
[52:57.720 -> 53:01.440] Yes, we are on Spotify, Apple, Amazon.
[53:01.440 -> 53:04.880] We have an RSS feed that has everything through Buzzsprout.
[53:04.880 -> 53:08.500] The link is in our show notes and in our Twitter bio
[53:08.500 -> 53:10.280] where you can find us and our RSS feed
[53:10.280 -> 53:12.760] which will have all of the places you can find us at.
[53:12.760 -> 53:14.680] That is a great spot to see
[53:14.680 -> 53:16.640] where you can find Breaking Bias Pod.
[53:16.640 -> 53:19.940] And if we are not anywhere that you consume your podcasts,
[53:19.940 -> 53:23.480] let us know and we will get Breaking Bias to that platform.
[53:23.480 -> 53:24.320] Most definitely.
[53:24.320 -> 53:26.600] So thank you everybody for listening.
[53:26.600 -> 53:29.040] We will be having some guests hopefully coming up
[53:29.040 -> 53:32.160] in the future, but it's been a blast doing episode three
[53:32.160 -> 53:33.000] here.
[53:33.000 -> 53:33.820] Thank you so much, Molly.
[53:33.820 -> 53:36.400] Really appreciate all that you do for this podcast
[53:36.400 -> 53:39.760] and having a blast co-hosting this thing with you.
[53:39.760 -> 53:41.560] So best co-host ever.
[53:41.560 -> 53:42.960] Thanks everybody for listening
[53:42.960 -> 53:45.600] and we will catch you in episode four.
[53:45.600 -> 54:03.100] How is Scott Dixon in the lead?
[54:03.100 -> 54:05.760] Death taxes and Scott Dixon doing something crazy.
[54:05.760 -> 54:07.720] Scott Dixon doing Dixie things.
[54:07.720 -> 54:09.640] Yes, Dixie doing Dixie things.