Episode 2 - Zandvoort Review, Monza Preview, TD018, Stock Car Aerodynamics and Listener Questions

Braking Bias Episode 2 is here! Join our two Co-hosts as they have too much fun covering everything from the Dutch Grand Prix, to what they expect to see from teams in Monza, even jumping over the pond to talk NASCAR. Join Molly and Dr. Obbs as they dive in and discuss. The episode kicks off with a review of the chaotic Dutch Grand Prix which was jam packed with new tech, lots of learnings, and even more action. Followed by a preview of what they expect at the Temple of Speed this weekend for the Italian Grand Prix. How far are teams going to go with their Monza specs to get the most gains? And which teams do they have high expectations for? What the heck is this mysterious TD018  coming into effect?! The team explains. Then Molly leads a discussion about NASCAR aerodynamics and how it leads to a violent wreck that shocked the motorsports world in the Coke Zero Sugar 400, and then they close out with some listener questions. Settle in, set your bias aside, and lets get Braking Bias! 

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In this engaging episode of the Breaking Bias podcast, Dr. Obbs and Molly Marissa bring their expertise in engineering and Formula One to the forefront. The hosts kick off the discussion by introducing themselves and highlighting their backgrounds, particularly in aerodynamics, dynamics, and powertrains.

The Dutch Grand Prix takes center stage as both hosts express their excitement for the event, focusing on the unpredictable weather conditions that added an extra layer of complexity. Strategic decisions during the race, such as Pierre Gasly's successful early pit stop and the contrasting fortunes of Lando Norris and George Russell, are thoroughly analyzed.

The controversial red flag decision due to heavy rain and poor visibility becomes a point of discussion. Molly argues for prioritizing safety, while Dr. Obbs acknowledges the necessity but questions the prolonged delay. The impact of increased spray from new ground effect floors and the visibility of diffuser vortices is explored, providing insight into the technical aspects of Formula One.

Williams' surprising resurgence and strong qualifying performance at Zandvoort are scrutinized, with Dr. Obbs attributing it to a wider aerodynamic operating range and Molly emphasizing the importance of simulation-real-world correlation. Ferrari's struggles with unpredictable car behavior and contrasting stability with Williams are also explored.

Mercedes' progress in predictability, Aston Martin's notable upgrades, and the challenges faced in modifying the jack to accommodate new devices are discussed. The hosts wrap up the episode by expressing optimism for the Monza race, discussing potential strategies, and providing insights into recent events in NASCAR, particularly the dramatic Coke Zero 400 race at Daytona International Speedway.

Overall, the Breaking Bias podcast delivers an informative and insightful exploration of Formula One, covering technical developments, team performances, and upcoming races. Dr. Obbs and Molly Marissa's dynamic co-hosting adds a layer of excitement, making the podcast a must-listen for Formula One enthusiasts.

[00:00.000 -> 00:16.180] Welcome to the Breaking Bias podcast.
[00:16.180 -> 00:23.340] My name is Dr. Obbs and I am one of your co-hosts joined by my amazing co-host Molly.
[00:23.340 -> 00:24.980] How are you doing today, Molly?
[00:24.980 -> 00:25.060] I'm good. How are you doing today, Molly?
[00:25.060 -> 00:26.380] I'm good, how are you?
[00:26.380 -> 00:28.220] Hello.
[00:28.220 -> 00:29.040] I'm doing great.
[00:29.040 -> 00:30.900] I'm pumped for episode two.
[00:30.900 -> 00:32.180] I am too.
[00:32.180 -> 00:34.500] This is, we're two down now.
[00:34.500 -> 00:35.940] Episode one was pretty awesome.
[00:35.940 -> 00:38.820] Episode two is undoubtedly gonna be even better,
[00:38.820 -> 00:40.980] but I realize we didn't do such a good job
[00:40.980 -> 00:43.140] of explaining who we are
[00:43.140 -> 00:46.440] and maybe why people might wanna listen to us, Molly.
[00:47.800 -> 00:49.800] I think we were just so excited.
[00:49.800 -> 00:53.560] Yeah, we're just so engaging and energetic
[00:53.560 -> 00:55.160] that they should listen to us anyway, right?
[00:55.160 -> 00:57.680] But I guess I'll go ahead and start.
[00:57.680 -> 01:00.240] Yeah, so my name is Dr. Obbs.
[01:00.240 -> 01:03.820] I have my PhD in mechanical engineering,
[01:03.820 -> 01:06.200] specializing in fluid dynamics.
[01:06.200 -> 01:12.160] So I definitely have a little bit of a penchant for aerodynamics as that is, you know, right
[01:12.160 -> 01:15.600] up my alley as well because air is a fluid type.
[01:15.600 -> 01:19.920] So I have a tendency to focus a lot more on kind of aerodynamic things, but also while
[01:19.920 -> 01:23.360] I was in grad school, I taught quite a lot of courses in dynamics as well.
[01:23.360 -> 01:27.640] So I am quite interested in the suspension dynamics and all the things around that.
[01:27.640 -> 01:29.620] And I did spend some time in undergrad
[01:29.620 -> 01:31.960] working with the formula team at the university
[01:31.960 -> 01:34.560] I went to on the suspension team as well,
[01:34.560 -> 01:36.240] so that was good fun.
[01:36.240 -> 01:40.880] But I am on Twitter at Dr. Underscore OBS
[01:40.880 -> 01:44.320] and do threads and things like that.
[01:44.320 -> 01:47.680] And Molly, would you like to introduce yourself?
[01:47.680 -> 01:52.680] Yes, so I think almost everybody will probably recognize me
[01:52.960 -> 01:55.240] or know me from my TikTok.
[01:55.240 -> 01:57.720] And if you don't, it is a bunch of red flags
[01:57.720 -> 02:00.640] where the L in flags is a one
[02:00.640 -> 02:03.480] and I make Formula One Tech TikToks
[02:03.480 -> 02:07.160] and I am the largest and only
[02:07.160 -> 02:10.380] technical education motor sports TikTok account in the world.
[02:10.380 -> 02:12.320] And my background though is,
[02:12.320 -> 02:14.260] I have my degree in mechanical engineering,
[02:14.260 -> 02:17.520] and by day I work in the automotive industry
[02:17.520 -> 02:19.280] as a product development lead,
[02:19.280 -> 02:21.160] and I do all sorts of fun stuff there.
[02:21.160 -> 02:28.180] And I kind of specialize in the powertrains, EV EVs and engine type of space. So that's kind of my
[02:28.180 -> 02:31.880] bread and butter. So by day, I'm in automotive industry. And by
[02:31.880 -> 02:35.740] night, you can find me tick tocking over on tick tock. And
[02:35.740 -> 02:40.880] I'm also co hosting the E cube podcast, which is a another
[02:40.880 -> 02:44.380] racing forces podcast about caffeine machines and all things
[02:44.380 -> 02:45.320] in between. So obviously coffee and cars, machines, and all things in between.
[02:45.320 -> 02:49.920] Obviously, coffee and cars and EVs and all of that good stuff.
[02:49.920 -> 02:56.480] Then I'm also over on Twitter as well, which is linked and all that good stuff where it's
[02:56.480 -> 03:03.480] a lot of musings and just me being a little ridiculous, but I do also tech post as well.
[03:03.480 -> 03:06.680] I'm kind of everywhere.
[03:06.680 -> 03:12.760] I, unlike Dr. Ops, was too busy in college to be part of the Formula SAE team, even though
[03:12.760 -> 03:15.280] realizing now it probably would have been a good idea.
[03:15.280 -> 03:20.320] But yeah, I just assembled a little bit of everything and have found my way into the
[03:20.320 -> 03:21.320] tech spaces.
[03:21.320 -> 03:25.860] I would say we make a really good team, Molly, because, you know, maybe on the aerodynamic side
[03:25.860 -> 03:27.900] where I specialize a little bit,
[03:27.900 -> 03:30.080] and we kind of meet in the middle a bit in dynamics,
[03:30.080 -> 03:31.340] you've got the powertrain side.
[03:31.340 -> 03:34.340] So I think we've almost totally covered the car completely.
[03:34.340 -> 03:36.060] I think so.
[03:36.060 -> 03:38.940] Yeah, that's what makes braking bias great.
[03:38.940 -> 03:39.900] It's a good balance.
[03:39.900 -> 03:40.720] Yeah.
[03:40.720 -> 03:41.560] Yeah, I was gonna say,
[03:41.560 -> 03:43.020] I struggled with fluids in college.
[03:43.020 -> 03:45.920] Somebody, I don't know who in our registrar's office
[03:45.920 -> 03:48.040] thought it was a good idea to wave me in
[03:48.040 -> 03:50.940] without having taken differential equations, but they did.
[03:50.940 -> 03:54.660] So it was a little bit of a struggle.
[03:54.660 -> 03:58.520] I used cars to teach myself a lot of fluids.
[03:58.520 -> 04:01.000] Yeah, I definitely had a love-hate relationship,
[04:01.000 -> 04:06.760] but I ended up giving in and having a long-term love relationship with Fluid Dynamics.
[04:06.760 -> 04:07.600] Yeah.
[04:07.600 -> 04:09.560] But, you know.
[04:09.560 -> 04:12.040] You sometimes probably still hate it, but.
[04:12.040 -> 04:14.120] Yes, as all things.
[04:14.120 -> 04:16.580] But I'll tell you one thing that I did not hate
[04:16.580 -> 04:18.320] was the Dutch Grand Prix
[04:18.320 -> 04:20.760] that I thought was a really great race.
[04:20.760 -> 04:22.260] No, I didn't either.
[04:22.260 -> 04:26.000] It was, we had all different kinds of climactic conditions, lots
[04:26.000 -> 04:31.440] of different changing of the tires, pit stops, lots of different strategies and things like
[04:31.440 -> 04:37.080] that. What were your thoughts on the Dutch Grand Prix? I loved it as well. It was you
[04:37.080 -> 04:42.920] kind of didn't really know what you were going to get. It seemed like teams also were struggling
[04:42.920 -> 04:47.120] to decide their setups and understand what they were bringing
[04:47.120 -> 04:51.000] for the weekend and get a handle on their car and what their primary strategy might
[04:51.000 -> 04:52.920] be based on that.
[04:52.920 -> 04:59.560] On top of mixed weather conditions, mixed grid, and totally diverging strategies throughout
[04:59.560 -> 05:03.320] the field, it was probably one of my favorite races of the year.
[05:03.320 -> 05:04.320] Yeah, I would agree.
[05:04.320 -> 05:10.620] I think I said before the race in a post that I made that I was looking ahead to Zandvoort
[05:10.620 -> 05:16.300] before I knew it was going to be crazy climate and changing rain and not rain conditions
[05:16.300 -> 05:22.420] because Zandvoort in general is a good strategic track when it comes to pit stops.
[05:22.420 -> 05:25.000] Usually typically we have two pit stops during the race.
[05:26.040 -> 05:28.800] And in this case, I think we had what,
[05:28.800 -> 05:31.640] like seven or eight pit stops,
[05:31.640 -> 05:33.240] some crazy amount of pit stops.
[05:33.240 -> 05:35.560] I can't, somebody's gonna correct this, I'm sure,
[05:35.560 -> 05:38.360] on Twitter, but there was a whole lot of pit stops.
[05:38.360 -> 05:41.760] I think Lance had six or seven was the official
[05:41.760 -> 05:43.760] highest count of the race.
[05:43.760 -> 05:48.920] Yeah, lots of pit stops. I'm trying to to run like, I think you had four or five
[05:49.200 -> 05:50.800] on the main strategy.
[05:50.800 -> 05:53.120] Yeah, and I think the first thing is probably
[05:53.120 -> 05:55.000] during the start of the race, right?
[05:55.000 -> 05:58.020] We had everybody on, most everybody on the soft tires.
[05:58.020 -> 05:59.760] We had Lewis Hamilton on the mediums.
[05:59.760 -> 06:02.640] I'm sure he was looking to maybe go a little long, right?
[06:02.640 -> 06:06.280] Because he was a bit back from where he should have been.
[06:06.280 -> 06:09.760] But then the rain started during the first lap
[06:09.760 -> 06:12.560] and everybody was saying, what do we do?
[06:14.120 -> 06:15.960] That was wild.
[06:15.960 -> 06:18.600] I think it was Checo that came in
[06:18.600 -> 06:22.000] or one of the first ones that came in was Checo.
[06:22.000 -> 06:24.240] Botas, when you listen to the, Valtteri Botas,
[06:24.240 -> 06:25.840] when you listen to the, Valtteri Botas, when you listen to the onboards
[06:26.560 -> 06:33.200] during the first lap was like, we need to pit. We need to pit for enters. And had they nailed that,
[06:33.840 -> 06:37.360] they would have been like kings. They would have been right in front of everybody. It would have
[06:37.360 -> 06:41.440] been brilliant. Oh yeah. So that's what actually happened with Pierre Gasly. If you listen to his
[06:41.440 -> 06:46.920] onboard, he's, we need to box, box for enters, I'm coming now for enters.
[06:46.920 -> 06:49.880] He called it and they executed that perfectly
[06:49.880 -> 06:51.440] and look where it put them, P3,
[06:51.440 -> 06:54.720] by executing that perfectly on the first lap
[06:54.720 -> 06:57.440] with some of the early comers for the enters
[06:57.440 -> 06:58.920] rather than trying to stick it out.
[06:58.920 -> 06:59.880] Absolutely, yeah.
[06:59.880 -> 07:02.780] There was a lot of really good stuff like that.
[07:02.780 -> 07:04.720] There was a lot of really bad stuff as well.
[07:04.720 -> 07:07.740] I mean, when you saw the Williams,
[07:07.740 -> 07:10.460] I mean, Alex Albarn and Logan Sargent stayed out
[07:10.460 -> 07:12.820] the entire time on the soft tire,
[07:12.820 -> 07:13.660] even through the rain.
[07:13.660 -> 07:15.020] I mean, kudos to those guys.
[07:15.020 -> 07:16.860] I don't know how they did that.
[07:16.860 -> 07:17.900] Oh my God.
[07:17.900 -> 07:19.220] Keeping it on the track.
[07:19.220 -> 07:20.540] I mean, that's crazy.
[07:20.540 -> 07:22.260] I joked, I was like, you've got Alex out there
[07:22.260 -> 07:24.380] on like geriatric softs
[07:24.380 -> 07:26.820] and like everybody else has already pitted twice.
[07:26.820 -> 07:28.140] Yeah, exactly.
[07:28.140 -> 07:29.620] But you know, then you had, you know,
[07:29.620 -> 07:32.300] really bad situations like what happened to Lando Norris,
[07:32.300 -> 07:35.700] you know, who, and George Russell, right?
[07:35.700 -> 07:37.140] You know, P2 and P3,
[07:37.140 -> 07:39.540] and then ended up dropping down to, goodness,
[07:39.540 -> 07:41.140] where did they end up dropping down to?
[07:41.140 -> 07:44.660] Like 13, 14, 15, 16, something like that.
[07:44.660 -> 07:45.480] Yes. Way, way back something like that. Yes.
[07:45.480 -> 07:46.800] Way, way back in the pack.
[07:46.800 -> 07:49.160] So definitely the earlier you pitted,
[07:49.160 -> 07:51.680] the better it was for the inters, right?
[07:51.680 -> 07:53.000] Yeah, for those conditions.
[07:53.000 -> 07:55.880] And then very interestingly, then after that,
[07:55.880 -> 07:58.640] you had, you know, teams saying,
[07:58.640 -> 08:02.400] look, you're on the inter, but it's drying out
[08:02.400 -> 08:04.640] and you need to make the inter last
[08:04.640 -> 08:05.040] because we expect that
[08:05.040 -> 08:08.160] more rain is going to come in about five or six minutes, they were saying.
[08:08.160 -> 08:12.200] So you had kind of a lot of different strategies, guys trying to make the
[08:12.200 -> 08:17.800] interest last other team saying, you know, there is rain coming or, you know,
[08:17.800 -> 08:19.080] it's going to dry out or whatever.
[08:19.080 -> 08:22.000] And some max was pretty much cause max ended up getting
[08:22.440 -> 08:24.200] undercut basically by, by check.
[08:25.260 -> 08:27.880] And so then max was pushing on his enters.
[08:27.880 -> 08:30.140] It was really interesting time in the race.
[08:30.140 -> 08:33.520] Yeah. I think there was a quote from that where it was like,
[08:33.520 -> 08:37.600] did Checo undercut us or something or did somebody undercut us?
[08:37.600 -> 08:41.680] I was like, I want that on a t-shirt immediately.
[08:41.680 -> 08:44.220] Yeah. As you said, Molly,
[08:44.220 -> 08:48.400] there was that did Max undercut us or did
[08:48.400 -> 08:55.040] Checo undercut us? There was definitely that time where they pitted Max to go to the softs
[08:55.680 -> 09:03.520] before they pitted Checo to go to the softs, right? I believe, I think it was. And then Max came out
[09:08.560 -> 09:14.400] I think it was. And then Max came out and basically undercut Checo. And so during the race, they were saying, Hey, what's going on there? Did Max get the preferential strategy? But realistically,
[09:14.400 -> 09:22.400] what you had was Alonzo pitting and now threatening to undercut Max. So they had to react with Max
[09:23.040 -> 09:26.800] to pit him. And unfortunately, at at that point Checo was in the lead
[09:27.360 -> 09:32.720] so because Max was at threat of being undercut they pit him first and that's really it's it's
[09:32.720 -> 09:37.360] not that deep that's really what it was. Yeah and it's where I think it just sheds light on like a
[09:37.360 -> 09:43.760] drive as like a driver what like how focused they are and how they can't see the bigger picture
[09:43.760 -> 09:49.080] what's going on behind them because that he may have not have said that knowing that that was a coverage
[09:49.080 -> 09:52.200] move and that that was done for coverage.
[09:52.200 -> 09:56.560] And I mean, we could probably go look at the transcripts with multiviewer, but like that's
[09:56.560 -> 09:59.400] just, they don't always see the big picture when they're in the car.
[09:59.400 -> 10:01.880] They just are trying to do the best that they can.
[10:01.880 -> 10:07.200] And so when they see something different happen, that's kind of the reactionary of like,
[10:07.200 -> 10:10.480] well, that's not helping me or that's this, that's that.
[10:10.480 -> 10:12.040] And if you look at the bigger picture,
[10:12.040 -> 10:15.000] it actually helps still deliver the best possible race
[10:15.000 -> 10:15.840] at the end of the day,
[10:15.840 -> 10:19.140] because they are trying to prevent their opponents
[10:19.140 -> 10:20.480] from beating them.
[10:20.480 -> 10:21.320] That's right.
[10:21.320 -> 10:22.140] Yeah, you're exactly right.
[10:22.140 -> 10:23.080] So I think after the race,
[10:23.080 -> 10:26.960] it was Christian Horner when they talked to him about it He said look he said
[10:27.320 -> 10:33.500] You because of when Alonzo pitted if we had pitted Sergio first and the max after that
[10:33.880 -> 10:37.340] We ran the risk that we would be in second and third
[10:37.400 -> 10:44.680] Yep, instead of being in what first and third or whatever it was first or first and second after that
[10:44.680 -> 10:46.400] It was first and second after that. Yeah first and second. Yeah first and third or whatever it was. First and second after that. It was first and second after that, I believe.
[10:46.400 -> 10:47.560] Yeah, first and second.
[10:47.560 -> 10:48.600] Yeah, first and second.
[10:48.600 -> 10:50.760] So then they could have been in first and third
[10:50.760 -> 10:52.400] or second and third or something like that.
[10:52.400 -> 10:57.400] So basically this is the lesser of the two evil situations,
[10:57.600 -> 11:00.400] I guess, is the way you could put it, yeah, exactly.
[11:00.400 -> 11:03.640] What were your thoughts on the red flagging of the race?
[11:03.640 -> 11:06.380] So we had that one point where, you know,
[11:06.380 -> 11:08.480] the rain started getting too heavy
[11:08.480 -> 11:11.060] and you had Joe Guan Yu, you had a lot of people
[11:11.060 -> 11:12.500] who went into the barriers
[11:12.500 -> 11:14.900] and then you had a lot of others who were hydroplaning.
[11:14.900 -> 11:15.940] They red flagged the race
[11:15.940 -> 11:18.420] and then they waited for an extended period of time.
[11:18.420 -> 11:20.940] They never actually used the full wet tire.
[11:20.940 -> 11:22.660] What were your thoughts on that?
[11:22.660 -> 11:28.760] So I have mixed feelings on that because there's obviously a wet tire for a reason.
[11:28.760 -> 11:32.840] But at the same time, from the safety standpoint, and safety is always going to be what's first
[11:32.840 -> 11:37.320] to me, if there is a significant amount of standing water on the track or it's raining
[11:37.320 -> 11:42.120] at a rate in which the water rejection of the wet's not even going to matter, which
[11:42.120 -> 11:45.120] I actually think that might have been the case, red flag it.
[11:45.280 -> 11:50.280] If there is no way you can do this safely, just you know what, red flag it.
[11:50.440 -> 11:53.600] I think that that was the right stance there,
[11:53.760 -> 11:55.200] especially with all of the hydroplaning,
[11:55.360 -> 11:57.200] the rate in which the water was coming down,
[11:57.360 -> 12:00.320] there likely were large amounts of standing water on the track.
[12:00.480 -> 12:04.640] I do think it was that situation where it probably wasn't going to be enough
[12:04.800 -> 12:06.120] with the water rejection
[12:06.120 -> 12:08.280] rate of the wet tire, even though it does
[12:08.280 -> 12:09.560] have a high rejection rate.
[12:09.560 -> 12:12.840] It still would have been probably debatable at best.
[12:12.840 -> 12:16.560] The extended delay I get to from a safety standpoint
[12:16.560 -> 12:18.800] as well for visibility, because at that point,
[12:18.800 -> 12:20.540] they want to try and let the track drain.
[12:20.540 -> 12:21.880] They want to try and let it clear up.
[12:21.880 -> 12:24.000] So at that point, if they're going to go back and go
[12:24.000 -> 12:28.800] racing wet, they might as well try and have the best possible visibility, I would say as well.
[12:28.800 -> 12:33.440] So I get it. I think it maybe was a little bit longer than we needed, but if they're going to
[12:33.440 -> 12:38.160] try and let that clear up as much as they can and then go back, I think that was the best possible
[12:38.160 -> 12:42.160] way they could have done it. And it's one of those, it's always damned if you do, damned if
[12:42.160 -> 12:49.560] you don't kind of situations. I feel like from like a race controller's standpoint, like a race director's standpoint.
[12:49.560 -> 12:52.080] People are going to be like, well, why do you have the wet tire and you're complaining
[12:52.080 -> 12:56.640] like some people have now if I call it, but then I'm damned if I don't when I have all
[12:56.640 -> 13:01.280] of these accidents and all of this stuff going wrong and drivers in unsafe conditions if
[13:01.280 -> 13:02.680] I don't call it.
[13:02.680 -> 13:05.720] I don't wait to let the conditions improve.
[13:05.720 -> 13:08.080] I think I agree with it.
[13:08.080 -> 13:12.840] I just think that a lot of people were up in arms for maybe no reason about it, but
[13:12.840 -> 13:17.160] I think it was the right call at the end of the day to go ahead and say, a red flag until
[13:17.160 -> 13:21.400] this lets up a little bit and clears up, and then we'll go back racing.
[13:21.400 -> 13:22.400] How about you?
[13:22.400 -> 13:26.840] Yeah, I would agree with you think that obviously the red flag and,
[13:27.200 -> 13:27.600] you know,
[13:27.600 -> 13:31.920] intention from the start was because Joe Guan you was or Guan you Joe
[13:33.160 -> 13:36.280] was in the, in the barriers. And, uh, you know,
[13:36.300 -> 13:39.000] that was a point where everybody was hydroplaning. And so, you know,
[13:39.020 -> 13:43.000] there was a risk that he could get basically slid into. And then after that,
[13:43.000 -> 13:47.880] it was a matter of what is the safest route for us, right?
[13:47.880 -> 13:49.340] We know with the full wet tire,
[13:49.340 -> 13:51.740] we get quite a bit of spray as well.
[13:51.740 -> 13:53.520] And the track was not drying very fast.
[13:53.520 -> 13:55.720] There was a lot of water on the track.
[13:55.720 -> 13:57.860] So at that point they said,
[13:57.860 -> 13:59.980] we've already red flagged it, just wait.
[13:59.980 -> 14:02.860] Yeah, and I mean, I don't know if I've said this,
[14:02.860 -> 14:04.700] they were like, I kind of like lovingly refer
[14:04.700 -> 14:05.520] to these diffusers
[14:05.520 -> 14:07.920] as the slip and slide 3000s.
[14:07.920 -> 14:11.320] They just pour water out of them.
[14:11.320 -> 14:12.960] The amount of water that comes up
[14:12.960 -> 14:14.440] out of this ground effect too,
[14:14.440 -> 14:17.400] compared to previous years,
[14:17.400 -> 14:20.340] the visibility is so much worse in wet conditions,
[14:20.340 -> 14:23.200] in my opinion, because of the high volume of spray
[14:23.200 -> 14:25.980] that's now generated from this,
[14:25.980 -> 14:27.540] the diffuser area in general.
[14:27.540 -> 14:30.220] Yeah, and that's probably a good point here
[14:30.220 -> 14:32.280] where we can talk maybe a little bit about spray
[14:32.280 -> 14:34.240] because we are a tech podcast.
[14:34.240 -> 14:36.500] So, you know, as we know,
[14:36.500 -> 14:39.300] the floors are generating quite a lot of suction,
[14:39.300 -> 14:40.700] a lot of downforce, right?
[14:40.700 -> 14:43.340] And as you create that suction,
[14:43.340 -> 14:45.640] you're essentially pulling the water off of the track
[14:45.640 -> 14:47.480] as well, you know, in the process,
[14:47.480 -> 14:50.400] you also get quite a bit of spray,
[14:50.400 -> 14:52.580] which is coming off of the tires themselves,
[14:52.580 -> 14:55.200] which is, you know, displacing the water,
[14:55.200 -> 14:58.260] but the air that's coming through the floor.
[14:58.260 -> 14:59.520] And then ultimately, like you said,
[14:59.520 -> 15:03.240] Molly out the diffuser is the air is moving
[15:03.240 -> 15:04.200] at a very high rate,
[15:04.200 -> 15:06.180] which means that there's a lot of shear forces
[15:06.180 -> 15:07.680] that are in there and shear forces,
[15:07.680 -> 15:10.840] aerodynamic shear forces are what's necessary
[15:10.840 -> 15:13.660] to take a larger droplet, make it a smaller droplet,
[15:13.660 -> 15:16.360] make a smaller droplet even smaller, right?
[15:16.360 -> 15:19.120] So that's how you end up getting plumes of spray
[15:19.120 -> 15:20.520] out of the diffuser.
[15:20.520 -> 15:24.360] Yeah, I was gonna say, speaking of like plumes of spray
[15:24.360 -> 15:25.120] and stuff, I think it was really
[15:25.120 -> 15:31.160] interesting that we're actually able to see the vortex generated by the diffuser in some
[15:31.160 -> 15:36.520] of the underfloor pieces and some of the shots that we're actually seeing from the race now.
[15:36.520 -> 15:43.200] I think we've seen a very clear vortex from Red Bull and the strength of that versus some
[15:43.200 -> 15:51.420] of the other cars, like Mercedes, where you don't really see one and then the Williams you see another really well-generated Vortex. I don't know if I've seen
[15:52.880 -> 16:00.080] McLaren or Aston yet, but it was really like we always kind of in the tech world. We're like, oh my god, it's wet conditions
[16:00.080 -> 16:01.760] Let's look at the the spray pattern
[16:01.760 -> 16:05.760] But I think this was really unique conditions that we're actually able to see that
[16:05.760 -> 16:07.680] for the first time from these floors.
[16:07.680 -> 16:09.640] Absolutely, and speaking of Williams,
[16:09.640 -> 16:12.600] they were one of the stories from the weekend, right?
[16:12.600 -> 16:13.420] Yeah.
[16:13.420 -> 16:15.440] Quite a strong, qualifying performance.
[16:15.440 -> 16:16.560] What are your thoughts on Williams?
[16:16.560 -> 16:18.000] What are they cooking, Molly?
[16:18.000 -> 16:19.080] They're cooking.
[16:19.080 -> 16:21.280] I don't know what Chef Vols and company
[16:21.280 -> 16:22.680] are cooking over there,
[16:22.680 -> 16:29.080] but they are cooking something, and I am very intrigued
[16:29.080 -> 16:30.080] by what it might be.
[16:30.080 -> 16:33.640] I think we know that the car is better in low downforce
[16:33.640 -> 16:37.000] situations, although Spa, it maybe
[16:37.000 -> 16:40.520] didn't perform as we expected.
[16:40.520 -> 16:44.160] So I think seeing whatever they brought here,
[16:44.160 -> 16:46.040] I'm still trying to make of what they saw
[16:46.040 -> 16:47.040] here.
[16:47.040 -> 16:51.720] They seemed like they had a good balanced package with their upgrades.
[16:51.720 -> 16:57.520] And the semi-lowish downforce of Zandvoort, it's not a very high downforce circuit like
[16:57.520 -> 16:58.520] we see.
[16:58.520 -> 17:01.680] I think I expected good performance from them.
[17:01.680 -> 17:06.080] I don't think I expected that good performance from them. I don't think I expected that good performance from them. I think that
[17:06.080 -> 17:13.480] there's a lot of things that probably have contributed to their pace. I'm actually really,
[17:13.480 -> 17:18.080] really curious to see what Mons is going to do for them because I think, was it Azerbaijan?
[17:18.080 -> 17:22.280] They had a really good pace as well because they tend to do better in lower downforce
[17:22.280 -> 17:28.780] configurations in the long straight. I'm actually really, really looking forward to seeing what's going to happen in months.
[17:28.780 -> 17:33.640] I don't know if you have more quantitative thoughts on that, but they're cooking something.
[17:33.640 -> 17:35.280] Yeah, I would agree.
[17:35.280 -> 17:37.240] It's a bit of a mystery.
[17:37.240 -> 17:41.920] I know after qualifying when they asked Alex about what was going on, he said something
[17:41.920 -> 17:47.840] about how the wind direction was in such a way that normally going into,
[17:47.840 -> 17:50.840] that they have issues with low speed corners
[17:50.840 -> 17:54.520] and that the wind direction was actually into the nose
[17:54.520 -> 17:55.800] in the lowest speed corner,
[17:55.800 -> 17:57.760] which I believe is turn one on that track.
[17:57.760 -> 18:00.840] And that actually helped them to generate
[18:00.840 -> 18:03.120] quite a bit more forward balance
[18:03.120 -> 18:04.840] than what they normally would have had.
[18:04.840 -> 18:07.020] So actually the wins were favorable
[18:07.020 -> 18:09.040] for them during qualifying.
[18:09.040 -> 18:13.060] But I think I have a little differing thoughts.
[18:13.060 -> 18:14.960] I mean, I'm not saying Alex is lying.
[18:14.960 -> 18:15.800] He's such a nice guy.
[18:15.800 -> 18:19.040] I don't think he would ever lie, but he's,
[18:19.040 -> 18:20.600] I think he's saying that,
[18:20.600 -> 18:23.480] but I also think that their car is probably,
[18:23.480 -> 18:26.840] because we know it's not like a downforce monster,
[18:26.840 -> 18:29.860] it's more than likely not a very peaky car,
[18:29.860 -> 18:32.760] which means that it's probably generally good
[18:32.760 -> 18:37.520] over a nice aerodynamic range within the aero map.
[18:37.520 -> 18:41.440] And that, you know, would generally maybe sort of bias
[18:41.440 -> 18:44.700] towards less downforce compared to other teams.
[18:44.700 -> 18:47.620] But generally I would say it's probably not very peaky
[18:47.620 -> 18:49.120] as a result of that,
[18:49.120 -> 18:51.540] which means that they just may understand the car better.
[18:51.540 -> 18:55.520] And remember, we also had not a lot of running
[18:55.520 -> 18:58.400] during free practice because of the conditions.
[18:58.400 -> 19:01.200] And so I think they just knew how to set their car up
[19:01.200 -> 19:02.480] from the start.
[19:02.480 -> 19:05.920] And maybe a lot of other teams didn't know.
[19:11.520 -> 19:16.640] Yeah. And that's that wider kind of, I don't want to, aero map. I don't know why I almost said bounce sheet. The kind of wider setup map available to them probably really favors them.
[19:16.640 -> 19:21.440] I don't know where my brain's at, but I think having kind of that wider, not as peaky setup,
[19:21.440 -> 19:30.240] like you said, is probably coming in very handy. Then they likely also have really good correlating models to allow them to do that where they
[19:30.240 -> 19:34.560] can kind of sim it out really quickly and just have their confirmation right away.
[19:34.560 -> 19:39.480] They can kind of unpack off of the cargo and kind of come ready to go because they have
[19:39.480 -> 19:44.600] such a good understanding of their car, which is kind of like what you want.
[19:44.600 -> 19:48.520] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, Albon and, um,
[19:49.000 -> 19:52.520] other drivers as well during the weekend, we're talking about, you know,
[19:52.520 -> 19:54.560] you really need to have confidence in the car.
[19:54.560 -> 19:58.200] You need to feel balanced the right balance in the car. I mean, Charles Leclerc,
[19:58.220 -> 20:02.740] poor Charles had an absolute disaster during the weekend talking about,
[20:02.740 -> 20:04.320] and signs as well after the race,
[20:04.320 -> 20:05.560] talking about how they didn't know
[20:05.560 -> 20:08.180] what the car was gonna do from one corner to the next.
[20:08.180 -> 20:10.240] So Ferrari's really the opposite of Williams,
[20:10.240 -> 20:11.080] I would say, yeah.
[20:11.080 -> 20:11.900] They are.
[20:11.900 -> 20:13.960] They were oversteery and understeery,
[20:13.960 -> 20:18.960] which is honestly like the worst possible thing
[20:19.140 -> 20:21.760] from a like car setup and car balance
[20:21.760 -> 20:24.800] and trying to configure your car standpoint,
[20:24.800 -> 20:26.340] because typically, you're
[20:26.340 -> 20:27.880] skewed one or the other.
[20:27.880 -> 20:33.160] You're kind of peaky understeery, peaky oversteery, but when you're that unpredictable and you're
[20:33.160 -> 20:40.440] that a mix of both, that is like disaster for a Formula One driver and their team and
[20:40.440 -> 20:41.440] their car.
[20:41.440 -> 20:43.960] That's the worst thing that you could possibly have.
[20:43.960 -> 20:44.960] Yeah, absolutely.
[20:44.960 -> 20:48.880] I'm sure as a driver, you feel like the car is just alive.
[20:48.880 -> 20:52.520] It's like the AT04.
[20:52.520 -> 20:53.520] It's the same thing.
[20:53.520 -> 20:58.400] It's very unpredictable and drivers like the predictability.
[20:58.400 -> 21:03.080] That's part of that confidence in the car and understanding the car and being confident
[21:03.080 -> 21:04.500] in your car.
[21:04.500 -> 21:06.480] You know what it's going to do.
[21:06.480 -> 21:12.160] If I know that I have a tendency to oversteer, I know that I have a tendency to understeer
[21:12.160 -> 21:18.600] with this. You know at least what it's going to do as a driver, you can anticipate, or
[21:18.600 -> 21:23.200] as they're looking ahead to the next corner, they already know what they're going to do.
[21:23.200 -> 21:28.800] With a car that's unpredictable, it throws all of that out the window and they have no
[21:28.800 -> 21:31.520] idea what it's going to do going corner to corner.
[21:31.520 -> 21:35.200] So as they're trying to look ahead to the next corner, they're still trying to figure
[21:35.200 -> 21:38.480] out what the car is going to do in the corner they're currently in.
[21:38.480 -> 21:39.480] That's right.
[21:39.480 -> 21:44.760] So yeah, I mean, touching on Ferrari there about the unpredictability, I think with some
[21:44.760 -> 21:46.320] of the upgrades, Mercedes has Ferrari there about the unpredictability, I think, you know, with some of the upgrades,
[21:46.320 -> 21:48.740] Mercedes has taken steps in the right direction.
[21:48.740 -> 21:52.520] You know, we heard quite a bit from, you know, the W13
[21:52.520 -> 21:54.600] that it was very unpredictable last year.
[21:54.600 -> 21:56.540] It seems like it's getting a bit more predictable
[21:56.540 -> 21:59.160] for them now, but Aston Martin,
[21:59.160 -> 22:01.360] let's talk about Aston Martin for a minute.
[22:01.360 -> 22:03.720] They rolled out some upgrades.
[22:03.720 -> 22:06.220] The upgrade list for them had basically
[22:06.220 -> 22:12.400] complete new floor, diffuser, floor hedge. So they really threw quite a lot at it. And
[22:12.400 -> 22:16.260] the performance seemed to translate during the race. What do you think about Aston Martin?
[22:16.260 -> 22:21.140] I'm very impressed with the upgrade package that they showed up with this weekend. It
[22:21.140 -> 22:25.440] seemed like they said that they were going to do this and they showed up with this weekend, it seemed like they said that they were going to do this,
[22:25.440 -> 22:29.840] and they showed up with exactly what they said, and it seemed like they were back up
[22:29.840 -> 22:31.680] at the timing sheet where they should be.
[22:31.680 -> 22:33.040] Alonzo got that.
[22:33.040 -> 22:36.240] I think that's a record-breaking podium, technically.
[22:36.240 -> 22:42.180] They seem to have understood whatever the weakness was, that it was introduced by their
[22:42.180 -> 22:45.840] previous upgrades that didn't work and came with the
[22:45.840 -> 22:49.200] floor package and an upgrade sheet that remedied it.
[22:49.840 -> 22:55.840] Yeah. And kudos to Dan Fallows and team. They really understood that they took kind of a
[22:55.840 -> 23:00.560] misstep, right? Went the wrong direction, decided that, hey, let's back up, kind of
[23:00.560 -> 23:05.760] relook at things again. But one really cool bit of tech that they had that
[23:05.760 -> 23:10.040] was really interesting was they had this little turning vane that was just underneath the
[23:10.040 -> 23:14.880] rear craft stuck structure at the end of the diffuser. What did you think when you saw
[23:14.880 -> 23:17.160] that? That was quite interesting, wasn't it?
[23:17.160 -> 23:22.480] I like kind of did a double take. I was like, wait, what? Hold on, what? And then immediately
[23:22.480 -> 23:25.040] ran to the regulations to make sure it was allowed
[23:25.040 -> 23:30.720] because I was like, are we getting cheeky with regulation boxes and what's allowed where?
[23:31.440 -> 23:37.120] And I think it's brilliant and I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it, but it really shows
[23:37.120 -> 23:43.760] that teams are taking every single piece of a car, fit, form, function, and just because it's there,
[23:43.760 -> 23:46.120] they're going to make it work in the system.
[23:46.120 -> 23:47.920] It's a mandatory component, obviously,
[23:47.920 -> 23:50.840] and we're gonna have it help us aerodynamically too now.
[23:50.840 -> 23:51.680] You know?
[23:51.680 -> 23:55.000] So I thought it was brilliant,
[23:55.000 -> 23:57.320] and I'm super intrigued by it.
[23:57.320 -> 23:59.320] So what are your thoughts on it?
[23:59.320 -> 24:01.600] Yeah, so I guess it took me a little bit of time
[24:01.600 -> 24:02.680] to just kind of look at it
[24:02.680 -> 24:04.800] and sort of get my head around what they might be doing.
[24:04.800 -> 24:08.800] But what I think they're doing is that they're in the center line of the car underneath the
[24:08.800 -> 24:11.280] rear crash structure.
[24:11.280 -> 24:17.200] You really don't have a lot of body surfaces that would aid in like kind of an upwashing
[24:17.200 -> 24:19.560] effect at the exit of the car.
[24:19.560 -> 24:23.120] And the upwash is very important because it works in tandem with the beam wing and the
[24:23.120 -> 24:28.680] rear wing and the whole thing sort of harmoniously works together to help with floor extraction.
[24:28.680 -> 24:34.320] So really in my mind, this little, I call it a turning vein, you know, it's just kind
[24:34.320 -> 24:39.880] of turning the air a bit underneath the rear crash structure to give it a bit more upwash,
[24:39.880 -> 24:42.320] which should help with extraction.
[24:42.320 -> 24:45.000] And what we mean by extraction is like
[24:45.000 -> 24:48.000] basically pulling of the air through the floor.
[24:48.000 -> 24:50.580] So the quicker you can get it out the back,
[24:51.560 -> 24:54.560] the faster you can pull it through the mid portion
[24:54.560 -> 24:57.760] of the floor, as well as to the tunnel entries themselves.
[24:57.760 -> 24:59.640] So this is referred to as extraction.
[24:59.640 -> 25:03.120] So I think this turning van is essentially
[25:03.120 -> 25:04.560] kind of doing that, but they did,
[25:04.560 -> 25:05.680] I don't know if you picked up on this,
[25:05.680 -> 25:10.080] Molly, I'm sure you did, but they had to update the jack
[25:10.080 -> 25:12.480] because of this little turning vein that was there.
[25:12.480 -> 25:13.400] I did see that.
[25:13.400 -> 25:16.160] Yeah, yeah, which was really interesting
[25:16.160 -> 25:17.360] and they actually broke it
[25:17.360 -> 25:19.840] during one of the pit stop practices as well.
[25:19.840 -> 25:20.720] Yeah, I saw that.
[25:20.720 -> 25:22.040] I was like, whoops.
[25:23.680 -> 25:28.480] But one thing I thought was really interesting is that and I know you,
[25:28.480 -> 25:32.720] you are also a big fan of like pit stops and wheel guns and kind of how the
[25:32.720 -> 25:36.160] teams practice and do all those things. But there was a,
[25:36.200 -> 25:41.160] there was an article that came out recently about kind of, they were asking,
[25:41.160 -> 25:44.760] I can't remember who it was, forgive me, but there's somebody in Aston Martin,
[25:44.760 -> 25:45.960] one that was talking about the, but there's somebody in Aston Martin
[25:45.960 -> 25:49.560] that was talking about how they sort of got to that point
[25:49.560 -> 25:52.600] and then ultimately developed the updated jack.
[25:52.600 -> 25:54.560] And what he said is, look, it didn't take us very long
[25:54.560 -> 25:57.080] to create this little turning vane.
[25:57.080 -> 25:58.840] What took us the longest was to figure out
[25:58.840 -> 26:02.720] how to modify the jack so that we didn't damage it
[26:02.720 -> 26:04.940] and then do pit stop practices and make sure
[26:04.940 -> 26:07.120] that we weren't harming ourselves.
[26:07.120 -> 26:08.520] So I thought that was quite interesting
[26:08.520 -> 26:10.220] that they really looked at like the full,
[26:10.220 -> 26:12.620] they didn't just look at the aerodynamic effect,
[26:12.620 -> 26:14.720] but they looked at what is the overall effect
[26:14.720 -> 26:15.720] of this device.
[26:15.720 -> 26:19.360] Yeah, I'm a huge nerd for like pit stop choreography,
[26:19.360 -> 26:22.480] the differences from team to team, all of that good stuff.
[26:22.480 -> 26:24.400] So I thought that was really interesting too,
[26:24.400 -> 26:26.840] and I think that that says a lot about their
[26:26.840 -> 26:32.080] engineering approach there, that they don't just design for function and don't care at
[26:32.080 -> 26:33.560] that point because it's what we want.
[26:33.560 -> 26:35.080] Everybody else has to deal with it.
[26:35.080 -> 26:36.360] They design for manufacturing.
[26:36.360 -> 26:38.400] They design for function.
[26:38.400 -> 26:40.340] They design for use.
[26:40.340 -> 26:43.640] They design for pit crew to use it.
[26:43.640 -> 26:48.560] If you think about how they jack up those cars, that's a super valid point that they
[26:48.560 -> 26:53.840] don't want to be injuring front or rear jack men because those cars aren't on air jacks.
[26:53.840 -> 26:56.000] They're on – I call them like a floor jack.
[26:56.000 -> 27:00.800] They're not like a true floor jack like the NASCAR jacks are, but they're on a floor
[27:00.800 -> 27:06.240] jack of some kind where they are leveraged by the body weight of the jack man to go up.
[27:06.240 -> 27:13.080] And so it's one of those things where that makes complete and utter sense from an ergonomic
[27:13.080 -> 27:16.700] standpoint that they don't want to injure themselves as you've got car catchers and
[27:16.700 -> 27:20.000] jack men going in on the jack for the pit stop.
[27:20.000 -> 27:21.000] That's right.
[27:21.000 -> 27:22.000] Yeah.
[27:22.000 -> 27:26.920] So really good signs I think for Aston Martin seem to be taking steps in the right direction.
[27:26.920 -> 27:30.960] Rumor is they're going to also be bringing some upgrades to the next race of
[27:30.960 -> 27:32.760] Monza. But before we get to Monza,
[27:33.200 -> 27:38.200] I wanted to talk about the latest news that came out today about technical
[27:38.980 -> 27:40.800] directive 18.
[27:40.840 -> 27:46.480] And this is addressing flexing in front wings and rear wings.
[27:46.480 -> 27:50.560] Do you want to maybe explain to everybody what the technical directive is all about?
[27:51.760 -> 27:54.400] Sure. So this is all...
[27:55.440 -> 27:58.240] Sorry, I just threw that one over to you there, Molly.
[28:00.240 -> 28:02.480] I was like, I'm going to wait and see where he goes with this.
[28:04.440 -> 28:11.720] I was like, I'm going to wait and see where he goes with this. What we know about this technical directive is all secondhand from Motorsport.com who
[28:11.720 -> 28:17.200] has obtained this technical directive.
[28:17.200 -> 28:23.640] And basically, what it equates to, and this is where I actually want how Motorsport worded
[28:23.640 -> 28:28.280] it because I think that they worded it very well, pulled up.
[28:28.280 -> 28:31.360] Yeah, credit to Motorsport for breaking the story today.
[28:31.360 -> 28:32.640] Yes.
[28:32.640 -> 28:35.760] It definitely was the talk of the town.
[28:35.760 -> 28:39.520] So we know basically everybody's probably used
[28:39.520 -> 28:40.520] to flexi wings, right?
[28:40.520 -> 28:42.820] Like this isn't a new concept.
[28:42.820 -> 28:45.000] This has been a concept for years now.
[28:45.000 -> 28:47.000] Yeah, it's been a topic before.
[28:47.000 -> 28:52.200] Yeah, front wings, rear wings, front wing flex has been a hot and contentious topic
[28:52.200 -> 28:55.200] for a while.
[28:55.200 -> 29:01.860] The technical directive per Motorsport is that the FIA states that teams are exploiting
[29:01.860 -> 29:05.600] regions of purposely designed localized compliance,
[29:06.000 -> 29:09.100] plus relative motion between adjacent components
[29:09.240 -> 29:12.500] to deliver significant boost to aerodynamic performance.
[29:13.000 -> 29:16.800] And so the regions of purposely designed localized compliance,
[29:17.040 -> 29:19.940] I'm going to direct everybody's attention to flexi floors,
[29:20.340 -> 29:23.840] which this is kind of similar to that where the regulations
[29:23.980 -> 29:28.380] probably only say we're going to here here and here and the flex is
[29:28.460 -> 29:32.780] Happening in front or behind the check, you know, it's it's in a non-scrutineered
[29:33.420 -> 29:36.340] Portion of the part where they're where the check occurs
[29:36.340 -> 29:43.040] That's like the best way I can explain that the second part which is relative motion between adjacent aerodynamic components
[29:43.040 -> 29:46.040] That's kind of the flexi-wing as we all know it.
[29:46.040 -> 29:50.440] We all kind of talk about it where we see elements that tend to lay down under aerodynamic
[29:50.440 -> 29:51.440] load.
[29:51.440 -> 29:56.160] And that to me kind of screams maybe there's an excessive amount of motion from flap to
[29:56.160 -> 29:57.160] flap.
[29:57.160 -> 30:00.880] And it's important to note that there are flap adjusters allowed.
[30:00.880 -> 30:02.800] You are allowed to adjust flaps.
[30:02.800 -> 30:10.240] There's regulations about how much you can adjust it and what that adjustment range is for front and rear wings. This is different from that flap
[30:10.240 -> 30:15.040] adjust that's allowed for your front and rear wing. This is like a passively laying down feature
[30:15.040 -> 30:21.680] under load. So I hope that that's a good explanation of kind of what this TD is.
[30:22.240 -> 30:26.280] Yeah, definitely. It was a very good explanation.
[30:26.280 -> 30:31.560] And there was four key areas I think in that article which were really interesting.
[30:31.560 -> 30:37.720] The first one stating that wing elements that can translate vertically, longitudinally,
[30:37.720 -> 30:42.160] or laterally relative to the bodywork that they are fixed to are not allowed.
[30:42.160 -> 30:45.700] So as you talked about about this kind of translation,
[30:45.700 -> 30:49.120] you know, up and down and et cetera.
[30:49.120 -> 30:51.840] The second one is wing elements that can rotate relative
[30:51.840 -> 30:54.280] to the body work that they are fixed to,
[30:54.280 -> 30:57.740] such as rotating around one fixed point,
[30:57.740 -> 31:00.520] which is very interesting because the flap adjusters
[31:00.520 -> 31:04.940] on the front wing for most teams are only fixed at one point
[31:04.940 -> 31:08.000] and then floating on the front wing for most teams are only fixed at one point and then floating on the other side.
[31:08.000 -> 31:10.440] And this is where most people have seen,
[31:10.440 -> 31:12.520] you know, during, you've got that front camera
[31:12.520 -> 31:14.640] which is right on the side of the nose, right?
[31:14.640 -> 31:16.120] And you can see the front wings.
[31:16.120 -> 31:16.940] Yes.
[31:16.940 -> 31:19.560] And then you can see that little flap adjusted up
[31:19.560 -> 31:22.280] especially on, you know, on a high down force track.
[31:22.280 -> 31:23.480] And then on the long straights,
[31:23.480 -> 31:26.920] you see it start to kind of fold back like an old man
[31:26.920 -> 31:31.560] sitting in a recliner.
[31:31.560 -> 31:36.200] I think what's interesting too, though, is we've seen inboard and outboard of that.
[31:36.200 -> 31:40.520] We've seen some teams where it's the inboard side that lays down and some teams the outboard
[31:40.520 -> 31:41.520] side lays down.
[31:41.520 -> 31:43.760] Yeah, and that was something very interesting.
[31:43.760 -> 31:47.260] I have to give credit to Daniel Bialy,
[31:47.260 -> 31:49.860] I think I'm saying his name correctly,
[31:49.860 -> 31:51.820] on Twitter, who pointed out that,
[31:51.820 -> 31:53.460] on the Mercedes specifically,
[31:54.420 -> 31:57.340] we're most used to seeing kind of outboard of the nose
[31:57.340 -> 31:59.800] that that flap is sort of laying back.
[31:59.800 -> 32:01.900] But there's that whole inboard portion
[32:01.900 -> 32:04.860] where you've got the two pieces of the flap,
[32:04.860 -> 32:08.640] which kind of slide relative to one another, and the inboard piece where you've got the two pieces of the flap which kind of slide relative to one another and the inboard piece which
[32:08.640 -> 32:15.320] connects to the nose is usually rigid. But what he saw from a race in Baku
[32:15.320 -> 32:19.280] actually that he was able to show in successive pictures was that on the
[32:19.280 -> 32:24.000] Mercedes the inboard flap is also laying down as well. And if this is the case
[32:24.000 -> 32:26.360] I'm not I'm not doubting anything that's well. And if this is the case, I'm not doubting anything that's seen there,
[32:26.360 -> 32:27.480] but if this is the case,
[32:27.480 -> 32:29.160] honestly, this is brilliant engineering
[32:29.160 -> 32:31.680] because I'm not even sure how you do that
[32:31.680 -> 32:33.800] because that's a very short span.
[32:33.800 -> 32:37.680] It's fantastic engineering and diabolical
[32:37.680 -> 32:39.540] from an aerodynamic benefit strategy.
[32:39.540 -> 32:44.160] So, you know, those are the first two elements
[32:44.160 -> 32:45.280] and the next three are kind of
[32:45.280 -> 32:48.280] very interesting because it's not something that I've really thought of.
[32:48.280 -> 32:53.360] So the third one that they said is also, you know, deemed not, I don't want to say in the
[32:53.360 -> 32:58.720] spirit of the regulations, but not aligned with the regulations is designs that utilize
[32:58.720 -> 33:02.760] elastomeric fillets, which elastomers are rubber compounds, right?
[33:02.760 -> 33:06.440] So elastomeric fillets, compliant sections of wing profile
[33:06.440 -> 33:09.040] or a thin flexible laminate at a junction
[33:09.040 -> 33:12.460] that can either distort, deflect out of plane or twist
[33:12.460 -> 33:15.500] to permit localized deflection relative to the body
[33:15.500 -> 33:18.080] where the component or the component it's attached to.
[33:18.080 -> 33:19.200] This was really interesting.
[33:19.200 -> 33:20.640] This was fascinating.
[33:20.640 -> 33:24.520] Yeah, I mean, first of all, if the FI is putting out a TD,
[33:24.520 -> 33:26.640] that means they've seen something.
[33:26.640 -> 33:32.120] Yeah, typically TDs will come out, in like my experience, they've seen something, there's
[33:32.120 -> 33:35.080] something in the spirit of regulations, or the governing body realizes that there's a
[33:35.080 -> 33:38.480] hole, they missed something, and the teams are trying something.
[33:38.480 -> 33:40.400] Right, so they have to put out a TD.
[33:40.400 -> 33:47.080] And so with this, I mean, theoretically, this is either something that's happening or it's something that they think teams could do.
[33:47.080 -> 33:50.840] But you could have non-homogeneous parts
[33:50.840 -> 33:52.820] where you have a bit more flexion
[33:52.820 -> 33:54.580] in a certain part of the part,
[33:54.580 -> 33:57.500] or maybe how it mounts next to a mounting feature
[33:57.500 -> 34:01.380] on the body could be elastomeric and somewhat deformable.
[34:01.380 -> 34:04.380] That one to me screams like they maybe saw something
[34:04.380 -> 34:07.000] and props to whatever composite
[34:07.000 -> 34:12.000] engineers at whatever team figured this out.
[34:12.000 -> 34:17.620] Because my brain is like, what did they figure out how to do in maybe their carbon fiber
[34:17.620 -> 34:23.440] layering and the structure of the carbon fiber as they begin to layer it and build the forms?
[34:23.440 -> 34:26.320] Did they figure out a way to create
[34:26.320 -> 34:31.520] something like that? Or is there an attachment method involving elastomeric pieces? There are
[34:31.520 -> 34:36.880] so many things that I can think of. Part of my brain goes to, a good example would be like,
[34:36.880 -> 34:41.840] Bear Bond that they used to use in NASCAR where it's this tape that has aluminum sheets in between
[34:41.840 -> 34:47.040] it. They outlawed it. Then teams were actually taking
[34:47.040 -> 34:52.920] still the tape that they were allowed to use to repair cars and putting pieces of aluminum in
[34:52.920 -> 34:58.560] certain areas to be more rigid. Then the rest of it would be flexible like the tape. I'm like,
[34:58.560 -> 35:02.120] maybe that's something like they did with the layering where it's really thin and flexible
[35:02.120 -> 35:06.180] in one spot with an elastomer, not in others, the attachment methods,
[35:06.180 -> 35:07.820] like you're saying, there's so many things
[35:07.820 -> 35:09.060] that teams could have done here.
[35:09.060 -> 35:11.460] So I'm fascinated by this one.
[35:11.460 -> 35:13.340] And for it to be that specific,
[35:13.340 -> 35:18.100] with like elastomeric and compliant laminate
[35:18.100 -> 35:19.780] is like somebody did some,
[35:19.780 -> 35:22.340] that's one that I think shook out in scrutineering
[35:22.340 -> 35:23.900] or that was observed in scrutineering
[35:23.900 -> 35:28.580] or that a team said, hey, we wanna do this because teams don't really operate in a vacuum.
[35:28.580 -> 35:29.580] We know this.
[35:29.580 -> 35:32.160] And the FIA is like, don't bring it to a racetrack.
[35:32.160 -> 35:33.160] You know?
[35:33.160 -> 35:34.160] Definitely.
[35:34.160 -> 35:35.800] Somebody was cooking something right there for sure.
[35:35.800 -> 35:41.360] And same thing on number four, which number four says, designs that utilize soft trailing
[35:41.360 -> 35:47.340] edges to wing elements to prevent localized cracking as a result of component assembly deflection.
[35:47.340 -> 35:51.820] So also, I guess maybe for people that aren't as aware,
[35:51.820 -> 35:53.260] a wing element has a leading edge,
[35:53.260 -> 35:55.460] which is the very front of a wing and a trailing edge,
[35:55.460 -> 35:57.140] which is the back part of the wing.
[35:57.140 -> 36:00.160] And so if you can actually design
[36:00.160 -> 36:01.820] deformable trailing edge wings,
[36:01.820 -> 36:03.940] which are not in Formula 1, obviously,
[36:03.940 -> 36:09.520] but it's a part of research and things that they're doing in aerodynamics. But if somebody cooked up something
[36:09.520 -> 36:13.840] where based off of, like you said, the carbon fiber layup, or they were able to do something
[36:13.840 -> 36:19.280] that at the trailing edge was allowed to deflect under load, it can be a lot of drag reduction
[36:19.280 -> 36:25.120] gains from something like that. Yeah. And the localized cracking would also mean it's,
[36:25.120 -> 36:27.680] now you can reuse it because teams will be
[36:27.680 -> 36:30.360] ultrasonically checking for cracks to reuse
[36:30.360 -> 36:32.920] after it's been under load and can they continue
[36:32.920 -> 36:34.800] to extend the life of a component as well
[36:34.800 -> 36:37.900] if they've been able to reduce the cracking
[36:37.900 -> 36:41.080] and increase its mileage effectively too by this.
[36:41.080 -> 36:43.040] Which would mean more budget in your cost cap
[36:43.040 -> 36:44.440] for other things.
[36:44.440 -> 36:49.280] Yeah, and so, you know, this is the scope of technical directive 18. Naturally, everybody's
[36:49.280 -> 36:52.880] getting real tribal out there and talking about, oh, well, this team's doing more than
[36:52.880 -> 36:57.280] this other team. But honestly, nobody, nobody knows.
[36:57.280 -> 37:02.160] What's so, like, why are we freaking out about this? Because technical directives go in a
[37:02.160 -> 37:05.680] numerical order per season. This is 18.
[37:12.640 -> 37:19.360] 29 was supposed to come in at Imola. We are well past technical directive 18. And for anybody who doesn't remember what technical directive 29 was, it allegedly affected the upper edge of the floor
[37:19.360 -> 37:22.960] fence. And there was something that was supposed to come into effect with floor fences. And there
[37:22.960 -> 37:26.360] were modifications that had to be made to cars to meet that
[37:26.360 -> 37:28.480] for technically EMLA, which didn't happen.
[37:28.480 -> 37:33.440] But this is like how many technical directives ago was it?
[37:33.440 -> 37:35.560] So it's interesting to see everybody
[37:35.560 -> 37:37.480] kind of up in arms about it.
[37:37.480 -> 37:39.720] And I actually was curious about it
[37:39.720 -> 37:41.720] because it referenced a regulation.
[37:41.720 -> 37:43.080] So let me pull up the regulations here.
[37:43.080 -> 37:45.880] You know, you're in the F1 tech world deep
[37:45.880 -> 37:48.740] when you pretty much always have
[37:48.740 -> 37:50.160] the technical regulations open.
[37:50.160 -> 37:51.880] And the latest version of it.
[37:51.880 -> 37:55.400] Yes, I always, I literally have a window that stays open
[37:55.400 -> 37:57.360] with the latest technical regulations,
[37:57.360 -> 37:58.680] the latest sporting regulations,
[37:58.680 -> 38:00.280] the latest financial regulations.
[38:00.280 -> 38:01.120] Exactly.
[38:01.120 -> 38:02.640] So we were actually talking about something financial
[38:02.640 -> 38:05.000] on E-cubed and I was like, hang
[38:05.000 -> 38:06.000] on, I have them open.
[38:06.000 -> 38:09.260] Let me, let me go get it.
[38:09.260 -> 38:14.040] So there's two like main sections that were referenced with this TD.
[38:14.040 -> 38:18.800] And the first one that was really interesting to me, it was 3.2.2, which is aerodynamic
[38:18.800 -> 38:21.020] influence.
[38:21.020 -> 38:26.160] And it's basically the first line says, with the exception of driver adjustable body work
[38:26.160 -> 38:29.480] described in another section and flexible seals
[38:29.480 -> 38:32.440] specifically permitted by another article,
[38:32.440 -> 38:36.240] which is 3.13 and 3.14.4,
[38:36.240 -> 38:39.000] all aerodynamic components or body work influencing
[38:39.000 -> 38:42.300] the car's aerodynamic performance must be rigidly secured
[38:42.300 -> 38:44.580] and immobile with respect to their frame
[38:44.580 -> 38:48.880] or reference defined in article 3.3. Furthermore, all of these components must
[38:48.880 -> 38:53.400] produce a uniform, solid, hard, continuous, impervious surface under all
[38:53.400 -> 39:01.240] circumstances." Which, that screams point three and point four in a lot of these.
[39:01.240 -> 39:06.840] And then it keeps going that says, any device or construction that
[39:06.840 -> 39:11.800] is designed to bridge the gap between the sprung part of the car and the ground is prohibited
[39:11.800 -> 39:18.280] under all circumstances, with the exception of parts necessary in Article 3.10.10, or
[39:18.280 -> 39:24.540] any incidental movement due to steering any car system or procedure which uses driver
[39:24.540 -> 39:26.120] movement as means of altering
[39:26.120 -> 39:27.600] aerodynamic systems of the car."
[39:27.600 -> 39:28.600] It's basically like not allowed.
[39:28.600 -> 39:31.240] Yeah, in F-DUX, like back in the day.
[39:31.240 -> 39:33.680] So then the last paragraph of this section is,
[39:33.680 -> 39:38.360] "...aerodynamic influence of any component of the car not considered to be bodywork must
[39:38.360 -> 39:41.280] be incidental to its main function.
[39:41.280 -> 39:46.440] Any design which aims to maximize such aerodynamic influence is prohibited."
[39:46.440 -> 39:52.440] What I think a lot of teams are doing is actually using that incidental verbiage right there
[39:52.440 -> 39:58.960] to pass the flexi-wing off. Well, it's under load and it's incompliant and scrutineering,
[39:58.960 -> 40:07.620] so it's fine. It happens when it's under load, so it's totally okay. I think that's probably how teams were getting away with it.
[40:07.620 -> 40:08.880] I don't know what your thoughts are.
[40:08.880 -> 40:11.340] And then they go on, there's some other sections
[40:11.340 -> 40:13.360] where like 3.3 is referenced
[40:13.360 -> 40:16.040] and that's a whole big giant section.
[40:16.040 -> 40:18.440] So I won't go into that, but I thought 3.2.2
[40:18.440 -> 40:21.400] was really interesting that it was explicitly called out.
[40:21.400 -> 40:24.120] Yeah, and that's really well put Molly and well explained.
[40:24.120 -> 40:28.600] And I would say if teams are not pushing the boundaries
[40:28.600 -> 40:30.640] of exactly what you mentioned, like, okay,
[40:30.640 -> 40:32.560] it passes in this, but it's incidental
[40:32.560 -> 40:33.720] in this other condition,
[40:33.720 -> 40:35.800] then they're leaving performance on the table.
[40:35.800 -> 40:37.840] This is Formula One after all,
[40:37.840 -> 40:39.280] we do have a history of this.
[40:39.280 -> 40:40.840] So I don't really get too up in arms.
[40:40.840 -> 40:44.200] Frankly, if you ask me if I think this is really
[40:44.200 -> 40:46.720] gonna roll out in Singapore, I think not.
[40:46.720 -> 40:48.720] I think it's probably gonna be something teams
[40:48.720 -> 40:50.380] are gonna push back on,
[40:50.380 -> 40:53.300] because if they do need to now go and redesign,
[40:53.300 -> 40:56.000] you know, the front wings or anything like that,
[40:56.000 -> 40:57.600] they're gonna need aero time to do it.
[40:57.600 -> 41:00.180] They're gonna need cost cap money to do it.
[41:00.180 -> 41:02.600] And they're gonna push back on those bounds.
[41:02.600 -> 41:10.480] And I think this might be something that comes out 2024. I was gonna to say, yeah, we're already in 2024 arrow allotment that froze
[41:10.480 -> 41:16.320] June 30th this year. I believe it freezes like at that point. So we're already in
[41:16.880 -> 41:23.440] 2024 arrow allocation. And that's where also this being such an early TD, where like I was saying
[41:23.440 -> 41:25.760] 29 was EMLola, who knows where
[41:25.760 -> 41:29.960] we're at right now with technical directive numbers on the season.
[41:29.960 -> 41:30.960] This was 18.
[41:30.960 -> 41:31.960] Yeah.
[41:31.960 -> 41:35.880] So this, I wonder if there is actually some of that pushback happening that we're not
[41:35.880 -> 41:41.240] aware of and more discussion going on that we're not aware of with this having rolled
[41:41.240 -> 41:45.520] out likely as early as it did if you look at that kind of numbering
[41:45.520 -> 41:50.560] and know that that's how the numbering sequence goes. I would be curious to know what TD were at
[41:50.560 -> 41:56.960] now this late into the season, but if you know that that's where they were around the email
[41:56.960 -> 42:03.440] standpoint, it says it's been out there for a while. Or maybe the flip side, it was out at a
[42:03.440 -> 42:05.280] point in which it didn't impact
[42:05.280 -> 42:06.280] 2024.
[42:06.280 -> 42:07.280] Yeah.
[42:07.280 -> 42:10.760] And it's already been kind of, okay, well, now we have to pivot or we have to make sure
[42:10.760 -> 42:12.160] that this is compliant.
[42:12.160 -> 42:15.640] It's early enough at that point, because that would have been before all of this frozen
[42:15.640 -> 42:17.960] development time and Arrow number is locked in.
[42:17.960 -> 42:18.960] Could be.
[42:18.960 -> 42:22.240] So, you know, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of things that we're going to be hearing
[42:22.240 -> 42:28.120] either from the team principals or the drivers or anything like that during the, you know, driver press conferences or
[42:28.120 -> 42:33.840] the team principal press conferences at the Italian GP, which is our next race.
[42:33.840 -> 42:37.000] So a good point for us to pivot now to Monza.
[42:37.000 -> 42:40.400] So the temple of speed.
[42:40.400 -> 42:48.360] We've already started to see some of the low downforce wings. Looks like Ferrari's got a very low, low downforce wing.
[42:48.360 -> 42:50.640] Main plane being pretty flat.
[42:50.640 -> 42:57.320] You remember last year, Molly, Aston brought the coolest low downforce wing to Monza last
[42:57.320 -> 42:58.320] year.
[42:58.320 -> 42:59.680] It was like super trim back.
[42:59.680 -> 43:02.040] It was like, what for your wing?
[43:02.040 -> 43:03.040] Exactly.
[43:03.040 -> 43:05.520] I'm really curious to see what they bring this year.
[43:05.520 -> 43:06.580] What are you looking forward to?
[43:06.580 -> 43:10.440] I'm looking forward to what teams are going to show up with because we go through the
[43:10.440 -> 43:16.040] season and we see some stuff at Baku where you're like, I think I know what teams have.
[43:16.040 -> 43:17.520] I think we've seen everything.
[43:17.520 -> 43:18.760] We've seen the mid down force.
[43:18.760 -> 43:20.760] We've seen the low-ish down force configuration.
[43:20.760 -> 43:22.600] We've seen the high down force configuration.
[43:22.600 -> 43:26.680] I assume they're going to bring the low down force configuration and then somebody shows up with something
[43:26.680 -> 43:33.620] cool to Montza. I'm looking really forward to seeing what teams are going to do for this
[43:33.620 -> 43:41.060] track specifically. I think especially Ferrari because in the grand scheme of things, this
[43:41.060 -> 43:45.720] is the race that they want where a WEC team, you're like, we want Le Mans.
[43:45.720 -> 43:50.360] I don't care about anything else. This is that for Ferrari. I mean, Ferrari obviously
[43:50.360 -> 43:57.560] wants a lot more, but this is Ferrari Formula One's Le Mans, whereas we want Monza. This
[43:57.560 -> 44:03.800] is our home race. This is our home territory. This is our place. We want this win. I'm going
[44:03.800 -> 44:08.020] to be really curious to see what length they are going to with a package
[44:08.020 -> 44:14.100] Especially given their poor performance in Zandvoort last weekend and what they bring from a tech standpoint
[44:14.100 -> 44:19.380] I'm also going to be very curious to see how some of the cars that we know
[44:19.660 -> 44:22.100] Notoriously struggle with drag are going to do so
[44:22.940 -> 44:25.560] McLaren, especially with their previous
[44:25.560 -> 44:29.560] high drag to downforce ratio, is one that's really going to be interesting to me. I don't
[44:29.560 -> 44:33.960] know if anybody else, what else is sticking out to you or what you're thinking going into
[44:33.960 -> 44:34.960] Monza?
[44:34.960 -> 44:38.800] Yeah, I think we're along the same lines. You know, last year, certainly Ferrari went
[44:38.800 -> 44:44.720] for ultra low downforce spec. Red Bull was, you know, higher downforce, which looking
[44:44.720 -> 44:45.280] at the rear wings we see now, it looks like Red Bull's, you know, higher downforce, which looking at the rear wings,
[44:45.280 -> 44:49.280] we see now it looks like Red Bull's kind of taking the same approach, which means that
[44:49.280 -> 44:54.320] Ferrari's going to be super fast on the straights. And then probably Red Bull is going to be a bit
[44:54.320 -> 44:59.120] faster through some of the, you know, high speed corners and things will have a bit more downforce.
[44:59.120 -> 45:04.400] I'll be curious to see how Ferrari is going to do if they are running such a low downforce spec
[45:04.400 -> 45:05.600] with their degradation. Are they going to get back to do if they are running such a low downforce spec with their degradation.
[45:05.600 -> 45:06.600] Yes.
[45:06.600 -> 45:10.160] Are they going to get back to the performance they had in Spa where things seemed to look
[45:10.160 -> 45:13.800] better or is it going to be back to the same old Ferrari with degradation?
[45:13.800 -> 45:18.640] Yeah, and I mean that car at times shows kind of draggy.
[45:18.640 -> 45:23.040] It might be a little higher on the drag to downforce spectrum than some of the other
[45:23.040 -> 45:25.220] cars so I think it it's gonna be really interesting
[45:25.220 -> 45:27.740] to see how they, like I say, trim out.
[45:27.740 -> 45:28.860] What are they gonna prioritize?
[45:28.860 -> 45:30.940] Quality, are they gonna really trim out for quality
[45:30.940 -> 45:32.820] or are they gonna prioritize race trim
[45:32.820 -> 45:34.460] and really trim out for the race
[45:34.460 -> 45:37.260] and take what they're gonna get in qualifying
[45:37.260 -> 45:39.660] and then let kind of the months of chaos play out.
[45:39.660 -> 45:41.380] I think that's kind of always a trade-off you have
[45:41.380 -> 45:42.620] but I think I'm gonna be really curious
[45:42.620 -> 45:47.340] to see how Ferrari also prioritizes in that sense for the weekend as well.
[45:47.340 -> 45:48.340] Yeah.
[45:48.340 -> 45:56.300] Any teams who might be looking to say, take some gearbox or PU penalties or anything like
[45:56.300 -> 46:00.500] that, Monza's also a good track where you can do something like that.
[46:00.500 -> 46:01.500] You can make up positions.
[46:01.500 -> 46:05.200] I'll be curious to see if any teams do that.
[46:10.240 -> 46:11.120] I think generally speaking, you know, we can expect that the Red Bull should be,
[46:16.720 -> 46:21.440] you know, good here. I'll be curious to see how Mercedes does, you know, and McLaren as well. You know, McLaren looked quite good in Silverstone. Yes. And kind of the Silverstone trim,
[46:21.440 -> 46:25.400] they seem to, you know, maybe shed some of the drag issues that they were having before.
[46:25.400 -> 46:31.680] So I'll be curious to see, you know, how that shakes out between Mercedes and McLaren and
[46:31.680 -> 46:32.680] Monza.
[46:32.680 -> 46:38.160] But you remember for this race, we're also doing the alternate tire allocation.
[46:38.160 -> 46:40.720] So that means that I'm excited.
[46:40.720 -> 46:41.720] Yeah.
[46:41.720 -> 46:45.200] During qualifying, you know, qualifying one session, basically,
[46:45.200 -> 46:47.520] you have to use a hard, qualifying two session,
[46:47.520 -> 46:48.640] you have to use a medium,
[46:48.640 -> 46:49.940] and the last qualifying session,
[46:49.940 -> 46:53.880] you have to use a soft, which means, unfortunately,
[46:53.880 -> 46:55.280] what was it, Hungary, right?
[46:55.280 -> 46:56.660] That we did it last time?
[46:56.660 -> 46:57.500] It was.
[46:57.500 -> 46:58.560] Yeah, so unfortunately,
[46:58.560 -> 47:00.640] that made free practice quite boring
[47:00.640 -> 47:03.240] because teams really wanted to hang on to the tires.
[47:03.240 -> 47:05.120] So I'm hoping it's not going to be that
[47:05.120 -> 47:09.680] way again this time. I agree. Yeah. What do you think? This is what I've seen a couple people
[47:09.680 -> 47:14.720] ask me. I'm optimistic, but what do you think about Williams going into Monza because they
[47:14.720 -> 47:20.000] show a good straight line speed traditionally and they seem okay in the high speed with this
[47:20.000 -> 47:28.640] current package. So what are you thinking about Williams for this weekend? Yeah, I'm hopeful. Honestly, I think I've said it on my Twitter before that I'm like
[47:28.640 -> 47:33.520] a Closet Williams fan. I do really like Alex Albarn because, you know, when he was at Red Bull,
[47:33.520 -> 47:39.600] I thought he was quite a cheery chap, as they say around here. But he, you know, he's a good
[47:39.600 -> 47:44.480] likable guy. But Williams in general, I'm a fan of what, you know, James Vowles is doing over there.
[47:44.480 -> 47:45.200] I think he's
[47:45.200 -> 47:52.400] taking all the right steps. I was previously just hosting another podcast for an episode and got a
[47:52.400 -> 48:00.480] chance to talk to Yoss Capito, former technical team principal and director for Williams Racing.
[48:00.480 -> 48:05.280] And so understanding a bit more about kind of some of the inside things,
[48:05.280 -> 48:09.120] the way things go and how they struggle a bit with, you know, kind of like the underdog,
[48:09.120 -> 48:13.320] because their facilities are not as good as Mercedes, they're not as good as Ferrari,
[48:13.320 -> 48:18.120] not as good as Red Bull, right? So they're having to do more with less. I do root for that.
[48:18.120 -> 48:25.920] I'm hopeful that I think Monza spec, you know, with a not very draggy car, very slippery car, they should be good.
[48:25.920 -> 48:26.760] Yeah.
[48:26.760 -> 48:30.440] My question is, have they truly solved some of the issues
[48:30.440 -> 48:33.280] they had previously in some of the lower downforce
[48:33.280 -> 48:36.480] high-speed tracks where they had tire degradation problems?
[48:36.480 -> 48:38.200] How much of the tire degradation problems
[48:38.200 -> 48:41.520] that they were having before could be linked to, say,
[48:41.520 -> 48:43.360] track temperatures earlier in the year
[48:43.360 -> 48:46.960] where maybe it was a little bit hotter at some of those tracks.
[48:46.960 -> 48:51.560] I'm not sure what the temperatures are going to be like at Monza this weekend.
[48:51.560 -> 48:56.840] I think mild with potential for rain on race day is what I saw last.
[48:56.840 -> 49:01.000] This has been the rainiest season ever.
[49:01.000 -> 49:02.000] I know.
[49:02.000 -> 49:03.000] It's crazy.
[49:03.000 -> 49:08.440] Yeah, and all the races I've been to, it's rained. It was very wet in Indianapolis. It
[49:08.440 -> 49:16.440] was very wet in Nashville. It was very wet like Chicago NASCAR. It's been a wet racing
[49:16.440 -> 49:17.680] season in general.
[49:17.680 -> 49:22.560] I was at Silverstone sitting outside getting rained on the whole time. I know exactly what
[49:22.560 -> 49:26.680] you're talking about. I'm excited too with Monza,
[49:26.680 -> 49:28.520] this is like my stats brain,
[49:28.520 -> 49:31.000] of I think this is the highest percentage
[49:31.000 -> 49:34.080] of our first non-Red Bull winner for this season.
[49:34.080 -> 49:35.440] Could be, could be, yeah.
[49:35.440 -> 49:36.840] Because of the Monza curse.
[49:36.840 -> 49:38.400] Oh, the Monza curse.
[49:38.400 -> 49:40.700] I'm a patterns and numbers girlie,
[49:40.700 -> 49:42.800] so winner of the previous year,
[49:42.800 -> 49:45.800] DNFs in the race the following. So it goes
[49:45.800 -> 49:50.720] all the way back to Charlotte Clare in 2019, wins Monza 2019, Pierre Gasly wins 2020, Pierre
[49:50.720 -> 49:56.800] Gasly, I think actually DNS the 2021 race because of his wreck in the sprint. Daniel
[49:56.800 -> 50:03.980] Ricardo wins, Daniel Ricardo DNFs in 2022, Max Verstappen wins. So I'm going to be intrigued
[50:03.980 -> 50:07.280] to see if this is our first non-Red Bull winner because the
[50:07.280 -> 50:09.940] curse also seems to affect the teammate.
[50:09.940 -> 50:10.940] That's the thing.
[50:10.940 -> 50:12.900] I went back and looked at this.
[50:12.900 -> 50:14.940] It also affects the teammate.
[50:14.940 -> 50:20.000] So I'm very intrigued to see if we are going to see our first non-Red Bull winner.
[50:20.000 -> 50:21.060] Checo doesn't count.
[50:21.060 -> 50:27.000] So I think that there is a high percentage of a non-Red Bull winner this weekend too, which has got me excited.
[50:27.000 -> 50:28.000] I like the parody.
[50:28.000 -> 50:29.520] I like it when things are mixed up.
[50:29.520 -> 50:31.600] That's why I think I also like Zandvoort so much.
[50:31.600 -> 50:32.600] There you go.
[50:32.600 -> 50:35.120] That's as scientific as it gets right there, folks.
[50:35.120 -> 50:37.120] Molly has done the work.
[50:37.120 -> 50:38.120] It's gonna happen.
[50:38.120 -> 50:41.120] It's gonna happen.
[50:41.120 -> 50:47.520] I'm about as non-superstitious as they come, but you know, you never know. I mean, you know, these things could happen.
[50:47.520 -> 50:51.920] They could, and there's something they say about patterns and stuff in science where
[50:51.920 -> 50:56.040] it's like anything more than whatever is more than a coincidence or whatever. So I just
[50:56.040 -> 50:59.760] it's one of those things where you see the pattern and it's kind of hard to ignore it
[50:59.760 -> 51:03.560] from a scientific standpoint, if that makes sense, from a trend analysis and trend line
[51:03.560 -> 51:06.000] point. And that's kind of where I see that.
[51:06.000 -> 51:07.680] And it's got a little bit of tech in it,
[51:07.680 -> 51:09.320] nothing super technical,
[51:09.320 -> 51:12.520] but it's an interesting trend to kind of watch and monitor.
[51:12.520 -> 51:14.720] But there might be enough data there for, you know,
[51:14.720 -> 51:16.200] some predictive analytics.
[51:16.200 -> 51:17.440] So there you go, you know what I mean?
[51:17.440 -> 51:18.860] You might be onto something.
[51:18.860 -> 51:21.920] So we'll see, you know, after the race,
[51:21.920 -> 51:23.680] I'm sure we'll definitely do another pod
[51:23.680 -> 51:27.400] and then either give you your kudos or laugh about the superstitious dates.
[51:27.400 -> 51:28.400] That's fine.
[51:28.400 -> 51:29.400] And I will be laughing too.
[51:29.400 -> 51:30.400] It's fine.
[51:30.400 -> 51:31.400] So, laugh away.
[51:31.400 -> 51:32.640] I'm with you though, Molly.
[51:32.640 -> 51:34.840] I think that some parody is definitely good.
[51:34.840 -> 51:38.840] As you said, you know, we had the most amount of, you know, passes in Zandvoort.
[51:38.840 -> 51:45.000] Hopefully Monza has quite a lot of, you know, passing and good close racing as well.
[51:45.000 -> 51:49.920] Last time we did the ATA, I did like the qualifying session.
[51:49.920 -> 51:52.000] I thought it did mix things up a bit.
[51:52.000 -> 51:54.040] Did, I really enjoyed that qualifying session.
[51:54.040 -> 51:56.780] So I mean, Monza qualifying to me is always crazy.
[51:56.780 -> 52:00.200] So I'm really looking forward to like the Monza qualifying
[52:00.200 -> 52:02.440] plus alternative tire allocation,
[52:02.440 -> 52:04.720] because I think that that's going to be even crazier.
[52:04.720 -> 52:05.840] Yeah, definitely.
[52:05.840 -> 52:08.560] So anything else on Monza
[52:08.560 -> 52:12.080] before we move to a bit of NASCAR craziness?
[52:12.080 -> 52:13.200] I don't think so.
[52:13.200 -> 52:15.320] Anything else you've got on Monza
[52:15.320 -> 52:18.480] in the world of Formula One before we go chat NASCAR?
[52:18.480 -> 52:19.920] Because I know you were really interested
[52:19.920 -> 52:21.400] in what went down in NASCAR.
[52:21.400 -> 52:22.840] We were kind of talking about it.
[52:22.840 -> 52:24.320] Let's hop to NASCAR.
[52:24.320 -> 52:25.840] I thought this was crazy.
[52:25.840 -> 52:27.720] So I think you were watching this race.
[52:27.720 -> 52:29.920] So maybe set the stage for us what happened.
[52:29.920 -> 52:33.600] So we are racing in the Coke 0400
[52:33.600 -> 52:35.120] at Daytona National Speedway.
[52:35.120 -> 52:38.240] It is the last race of the regular season for NASCAR.
[52:38.240 -> 52:39.560] And what that means is NASCAR
[52:39.560 -> 52:41.240] does an elimination style playoff.
[52:41.240 -> 52:42.980] And so what they do to win the championship
[52:42.980 -> 52:49.480] is you have to win to get in, and there's only 16 spaces. And if there are not 16 unique winners, the top
[52:49.480 -> 52:54.640] 16 in points carry on into the fight for the NASCAR championship. And so at the
[52:54.640 -> 52:59.320] end of the regular season, this is the point in which we lock all 16 drivers in.
[52:59.320 -> 53:03.360] The problem was there were 15 unique winners and so there was only one spot
[53:03.360 -> 53:05.420] left on points or on winners. And so there was only one spot left on points or on winners.
[53:05.420 -> 53:09.260] And so this led to very, very aggressive racing
[53:09.260 -> 53:10.740] the entire night.
[53:10.740 -> 53:13.220] And Daytona is what's called a super speedway,
[53:13.220 -> 53:16.040] which is a two and a half mile ginormous track.
[53:16.040 -> 53:17.380] They put restrictor plates on the cars
[53:17.380 -> 53:18.220] to help bring speed down.
[53:18.220 -> 53:21.020] It's all really aerodynamic and drafting driven this racing.
[53:21.020 -> 53:23.300] You wanna stay in the pack, keep the momentum,
[53:23.300 -> 53:24.740] keeping the slip stream and all of that.
[53:24.740 -> 53:28.320] And it just leads to just wild racing, wild wrecks. You're like locked
[53:28.320 -> 53:33.600] onto the bumper of the car in front of you, trying to hold on or get around them or push
[53:33.600 -> 53:39.280] them to win. And so ultimately what winds up happening is Ryan Priest takes a bump from
[53:39.280 -> 53:46.100] in the pack, gets spun, and it looks relatively innocuous. Like it's a spin on the back stretch.
[53:46.100 -> 53:48.880] It's very common at Daytona to spin back there.
[53:48.880 -> 53:50.620] Just that's where a lot of people will bump.
[53:50.620 -> 53:52.920] They'll get big runs because it's a big long straightaway
[53:52.920 -> 53:54.760] between coming around to the tri-oval.
[53:54.760 -> 53:56.000] But what winds up happening
[53:56.000 -> 53:58.880] is probably the most violent wreck
[53:58.880 -> 54:01.560] I think anybody has ever seen in NASCAR.
[54:01.560 -> 54:05.000] It resulted in a 10 flip rollover.
[54:05.280 -> 54:08.820] I hope that that's a good kind of setting of the scene.
[54:08.820 -> 54:10.280] That was really, really good.
[54:10.280 -> 54:12.020] So yeah, I mean, you know,
[54:12.020 -> 54:15.340] Ryan Preece is pretty much, you know, going sideways.
[54:15.340 -> 54:18.540] He's on the tarmac, you know, on the asphalt.
[54:18.540 -> 54:22.080] And then once he gets to the grass,
[54:22.080 -> 54:25.000] then there's now a channel for the air
[54:25.020 -> 54:27.800] to kind of get under the car from the side.
[54:27.800 -> 54:30.400] So we typically call this a side wind
[54:30.400 -> 54:33.040] or at least an IndyCar, that's what they study it as,
[54:33.040 -> 54:34.520] they call it a side wind.
[54:34.520 -> 54:37.000] And so then in this side wind condition,
[54:37.000 -> 54:40.400] with the air now coming under the car, you get takeoff.
[54:40.400 -> 54:42.760] So the car lifts up off the ground.
[54:42.760 -> 54:45.440] Now, one of the things that I immediately noticed was the flaps on top of the car lifts up off the ground. Now one of the things that I immediately noticed
[54:45.440 -> 54:50.080] was the flaps on top of the car deployed. Yes, as they should have.
[54:50.080 -> 54:56.920] Yes, as they should have. One thing I didn't see though that I'm not sure and I'm just
[54:56.920 -> 55:02.200] throwing this one on you now, but when one of the top flaps deploys, there's actually
[55:02.200 -> 55:06.200] a cable as far as I know that also connects to kind of a flap
[55:06.200 -> 55:07.920] that's in the diffuser.
[55:07.920 -> 55:10.880] That should, when the top flap opens,
[55:10.880 -> 55:13.360] also pull a flap down in the diffuser
[55:13.360 -> 55:16.300] that also kind of prevents it from taking off further.
[55:16.300 -> 55:17.880] I didn't see that flap deploy.
[55:17.880 -> 55:19.680] I don't know if there's something that happened there.
[55:19.680 -> 55:20.520] I didn't either.
[55:20.520 -> 55:23.280] And this is where I'm gonna wait for NASCAR's report
[55:23.280 -> 55:29.440] in postmortem from the slomos and all the pictures I've seen. I don't see the flap and I just wonder if the speed and
[55:29.440 -> 55:34.720] angle in which he was flipping prevented the flap from deploying because that's something you can
[55:34.720 -> 55:40.880] sometimes see with flaps whereas like the direction that I go or the way that I flip, my flaps don't
[55:40.880 -> 55:44.880] come up. And that's like a condition you obviously try to prevent with these flaps and so that's
[55:44.880 -> 55:46.200] where like my brain goes.
[55:46.200 -> 55:47.620] And I think it's just important to also
[55:47.620 -> 55:49.360] for like our listeners who aren't aware,
[55:49.360 -> 55:51.660] NASCAR is on a ground effect car.
[55:51.660 -> 55:53.560] This is their second year on the new gen car.
[55:53.560 -> 55:55.280] They've had ground effect for a while,
[55:55.280 -> 55:58.000] but this is the second year of the gen seven car,
[55:58.000 -> 56:00.720] which is primarily all ground effect driven.
[56:00.720 -> 56:02.160] So that's like just an important,
[56:02.160 -> 56:04.720] hey, keep this in mind that this is a ground effect car
[56:04.720 -> 56:06.440] as we talk about this.
[56:06.440 -> 56:12.080] Yeah. And they do also on the car itself kind of have these sort of sidewind, gurney type
[56:12.080 -> 56:17.560] sort of, I don't know, it's not really a flap, but it's just there. It's like a gurney on
[56:17.560 -> 56:18.840] the side of the roof there.
[56:18.840 -> 56:19.840] Yeah, wicker bills.
[56:19.840 -> 56:24.320] And they have the same thing in IndyCar, right? They kind of have these, are they also called
[56:24.320 -> 56:26.120] wicker bills in IndyCar? No, they call them gurney flaps in IndyCar. I? They kind of have these, are they also called wicker bills in IndyCar?
[56:26.120 -> 56:27.600] No, they call them gurney flaps in IndyCar.
[56:27.600 -> 56:28.760] I think it's like a NASCAR thing
[56:28.760 -> 56:30.200] that they're really called wicker bills.
[56:30.200 -> 56:32.040] Okay.
[56:32.040 -> 56:33.480] So like it's a gurney flap.
[56:33.480 -> 56:34.760] At the end of the day, it's a gurney flap.
[56:34.760 -> 56:35.600] Yeah.
[56:35.600 -> 56:38.360] Feels right in NASCAR to call it a wicker bill.
[56:38.360 -> 56:41.560] It just seems to just sort of fit with NASCAR.
[56:41.560 -> 56:42.560] But you know, I mean,
[56:42.560 -> 56:45.440] the roof flaps deployed definitely saw that. Nonetheless, whatever But you know, I mean, the the roof flaps deployed definitely saw that.
[56:45.440 -> 56:50.240] Nonetheless, whatever, you know, was there was not enough to prevent essentially creating sort
[56:50.240 -> 56:54.560] of a lift condition on the top and then a high pressure condition underneath.
[56:54.560 -> 57:00.240] Yeah, and that's really hard because we've seen this. This isn't exclusive to the Gen 7 NASCAR,
[57:00.240 -> 57:04.480] which is the current car that we're in. And that's everybody's like, Oh my god, this is so violent
[57:04.480 -> 57:05.440] and flips and oh my god, the Gen 7 and they're in. And that's everybody's like, oh my God, this is so violent and flips in.
[57:05.440 -> 57:06.760] Oh my God, the gen seven.
[57:06.760 -> 57:08.440] And they're screaming about the gen seven car.
[57:08.440 -> 57:11.560] The gen seven car did have its issues with the rear clip
[57:11.560 -> 57:13.560] and the impact and its stiffness
[57:13.560 -> 57:14.720] and the driver feeling more of the wrecks.
[57:14.720 -> 57:15.920] That's a whole separate thing.
[57:15.920 -> 57:18.120] The NASCAR and the gen six car, which was previous,
[57:18.120 -> 57:20.320] which the car that they've had for years and years,
[57:20.320 -> 57:21.180] years, years, years.
[57:21.180 -> 57:23.280] This was a similar problem we had
[57:23.280 -> 57:25.960] where you just get that slight amount of air
[57:25.960 -> 57:28.600] and you get the disturbance in the under floor,
[57:28.600 -> 57:29.420] up and over.
[57:29.420 -> 57:31.360] It doesn't take much.
[57:31.360 -> 57:34.520] With the last gen car and this gen car.
[57:34.520 -> 57:37.200] And that's why NASCAR has been really proactive
[57:37.200 -> 57:39.580] in the side flaps, in the diffuser flap,
[57:39.580 -> 57:43.080] in some of these features that are meant to prevent
[57:43.080 -> 57:45.040] this type of blow over from happening.
[57:45.040 -> 57:47.360] And if you do blow over,
[57:47.360 -> 57:51.320] it's meant to prevent repeat blow overs
[57:51.320 -> 57:54.360] and you will land on your tires is the goal.
[57:54.360 -> 57:56.440] You'll land right side up.
[57:56.440 -> 58:00.120] What we're seeing tracks now do because of this
[58:00.120 -> 58:03.000] is actually remove grass from those areas.
[58:03.000 -> 58:04.520] There's another similar type of track
[58:04.520 -> 58:06.040] called Talladega Super Speedway.
[58:06.040 -> 58:09.520] For anybody not aware, we'll pop a picture somehow or figure out
[58:09.520 -> 58:12.680] how to pop a picture up here of Daytona's backstretch versus Talladega's backstretch.
[58:12.820 -> 58:16.180] And Talladega got rid of the grass in the backstretch,
[58:16.180 -> 58:18.620] just like Daytona has currently.
[58:18.620 -> 58:22.660] That pavement to grass is what can induce that
[58:22.660 -> 58:25.880] because that allows the disturbance in the tires to lift
[58:25.880 -> 58:28.520] and then you're up and over and along for the ride,
[58:28.520 -> 58:31.500] which is probably the contributing factor here
[58:31.500 -> 58:33.000] and is the contributing factor
[58:33.000 -> 58:35.040] where you get the air under the car
[58:35.040 -> 58:37.120] and this was the same thing in the other gen,
[58:37.120 -> 58:38.800] you get those rear wheels up,
[58:38.800 -> 58:41.340] you get just a couple inches of air
[58:41.340 -> 58:44.200] with whatever disturbance, not just the gen seven
[58:44.200 -> 58:45.280] and you're up and over.
[58:45.280 -> 58:49.040] And that's exactly, as you mentioned, that's exactly what happened here. So
[58:49.040 -> 58:52.640] I'm sure, you know, NASCAR is very good at this. IndyCar is very good at, you know,
[58:52.640 -> 58:57.360] studying what happens post-mortem, as you said, after these events. So be curious to see
[58:58.160 -> 59:03.600] what comes out of this as a result. Yes, especially with roof hatch failures.
[59:03.600 -> 59:05.920] We saw the roof hatch fail on the car.
[59:05.920 -> 59:07.600] Let's talk about the roof hatch, yeah.
[59:07.600 -> 59:08.680] Sorry to derail us.
[59:08.680 -> 59:12.280] I know we're trying to not just talk
[59:12.280 -> 59:14.840] at nauseam about race cars here.
[59:14.840 -> 59:17.280] So everybody will probably have noticed
[59:17.280 -> 59:20.680] as they're looking at videos of this wreck,
[59:20.680 -> 59:21.960] the roof hatch fails.
[59:21.960 -> 59:25.080] And the roof hatch used to only be mandatory
[59:25.080 -> 59:28.120] on these super speedways for drivers to get out of,
[59:28.120 -> 59:31.760] but now it's mandatory on all of the cars on every track.
[59:31.760 -> 59:35.380] And so it basically is just an escape hatch.
[59:35.380 -> 59:38.080] It has a handle that you like pull down
[59:38.080 -> 59:40.220] and push out to get up out of.
[59:40.220 -> 59:42.440] And it's like a safety feature basically.
[59:42.440 -> 59:50.200] And it looks like the panels or the latches failed and the entire hatch came off, which the way
[59:50.200 -> 59:54.640] that Denny Hamlin explained it on his podcast, which Bozhi Tarabayek has said the same thing,
[59:54.640 -> 59:59.700] is like popping the top off of a plastic storage container because of all of the pressure around
[59:59.700 -> 01:00:01.420] it during events.
[01:00:01.420 -> 01:00:04.540] The best way to think about that is basically that's what happened with the roof hatch
[01:00:04.540 -> 01:00:09.760] failure because there's so much pressure on the roof as it's flipping that it essentially
[01:00:09.760 -> 01:00:14.240] works like popping the top on something, which I thought was a great analogy. And if anybody
[01:00:14.240 -> 01:00:18.400] wants a good NASCAR podcast, Denny Hamlin's podcast, Action is Interventional, he gives
[01:00:18.400 -> 01:00:23.280] so much good insight technically, kind of businessly and all of that too businessly.
[01:00:24.480 -> 01:00:25.560] You know what I mean.
[01:00:25.560 -> 01:00:26.380] Yeah.
[01:00:26.380 -> 01:00:28.240] No, it's a really good analogy.
[01:00:28.240 -> 01:00:30.720] I also think of like a Pringles can for instance.
[01:00:30.720 -> 01:00:32.360] You know, when you squeeze a Pringles can
[01:00:32.360 -> 01:00:34.320] and the top pops off, same sort of a thing.
[01:00:34.320 -> 01:00:36.960] Yeah. Anytime you induce kind of a side load,
[01:00:36.960 -> 01:00:39.400] you create essentially kind of like a buckling effect
[01:00:39.400 -> 01:00:40.640] and that buckling effect,
[01:00:40.640 -> 01:00:43.240] you pretty much lose the integrity
[01:00:43.240 -> 01:00:45.100] of any sort of a rigidly
[01:00:45.100 -> 01:00:49.440] sealed hatch or anything like that. Yeah and then I had tweeted about it the
[01:00:49.440 -> 01:00:53.200] roll cage structure is what I'm really interested about as well with the kind
[01:00:53.200 -> 01:00:57.820] of proactive and iterative engineering that NASCAR's had done on the roll cage
[01:00:57.820 -> 01:01:08.000] with the Newman bar which was a bar that Ryan Newman kind of lobbied to get put in after some concerns about safety
[01:01:08.000 -> 01:01:11.320] during rollover crashes in 2009, which it was put in.
[01:01:11.320 -> 01:01:13.760] Also important to note, he's a fellow engineer, so.
[01:01:13.760 -> 01:01:14.760] Shout out.
[01:01:14.760 -> 01:01:19.160] But so he lobbied and everybody just kind of affectionately calls it the Newman Bar.
[01:01:19.160 -> 01:01:23.320] Now there is also what's called the Tumen Bar, which that's like I call it that.
[01:01:23.320 -> 01:01:27.500] I don't know if anybody else calls it that, but it's the second Newman included bar.
[01:01:27.500 -> 01:01:30.540] He had a also very scary flip at Daytona
[01:01:30.540 -> 01:01:34.760] where he landed upside down and he had to be extracted.
[01:01:34.760 -> 01:01:35.860] He was okay.
[01:01:35.860 -> 01:01:39.660] That also resulted in additional strengthening
[01:01:39.660 -> 01:01:40.860] of the roll cage.
[01:01:40.860 -> 01:01:46.360] Joey Logano, a fellow driver, had a blow over at Talladega that resulted in
[01:01:46.360 -> 01:01:51.800] a barb coming down and touching his helmet. He was fine, but he landed roofside. So they
[01:01:51.800 -> 01:01:58.360] had to improve the robustness of the roll cage. And then now I call it the Hoka Bar,
[01:01:58.360 -> 01:02:03.720] which is named after Carson Hoka Bar, who is a truck's driver. I don't know if it made
[01:02:03.720 -> 01:02:05.400] its way up to cup. I assume it did.
[01:02:05.400 -> 01:02:07.040] It's a foot protection bar
[01:02:07.040 -> 01:02:08.600] after he suffered ankle injuries
[01:02:08.600 -> 01:02:11.480] to help improve the rigidity around the feet and ankles.
[01:02:11.480 -> 01:02:13.560] So NASCAR has done a lot of work
[01:02:13.560 -> 01:02:16.240] in the roll cage area iteratively
[01:02:16.240 -> 01:02:19.500] to improve that in the event of these types of flips as well.
[01:02:19.500 -> 01:02:20.880] So I'm gonna be very interested
[01:02:20.880 -> 01:02:22.520] to see what they learn from this
[01:02:22.520 -> 01:02:24.920] because that car right back to R&D.
[01:02:24.920 -> 01:02:26.580] They've been very transparent.
[01:02:26.580 -> 01:02:28.240] They even with like penalties,
[01:02:28.240 -> 01:02:30.080] they'll actually show us like the penalized parts.
[01:02:30.080 -> 01:02:32.620] Like here it is, this is exactly the difference.
[01:02:32.620 -> 01:02:34.300] So I'm gonna be really curious to see
[01:02:34.300 -> 01:02:36.320] what they kind of come out with this
[01:02:36.320 -> 01:02:39.600] from a post-mortem standpoint of here's what happened,
[01:02:39.600 -> 01:02:41.140] here's what we see.
[01:02:41.140 -> 01:02:42.740] And if we are gonna make improvements,
[01:02:42.740 -> 01:02:44.500] here's exactly what we're going to improve.
[01:02:44.500 -> 01:02:46.900] And I'm gonna be curious to see what they find,
[01:02:46.900 -> 01:02:49.000] especially because I think this is the first big one
[01:02:49.000 -> 01:02:50.700] of these in the Gen Seven.
[01:02:50.700 -> 01:02:52.900] We've seen frontal impact, rear impact.
[01:02:52.900 -> 01:02:55.860] I think this is our first like big, bad blow over.
[01:02:55.860 -> 01:02:57.180] I think we've had a flip before,
[01:02:57.180 -> 01:02:59.260] but this is like the first big, bad blow over
[01:02:59.260 -> 01:03:01.260] in the Gen Seven that we've seen.
[01:03:01.260 -> 01:03:04.220] Yeah, as you said, really encouraging that NASCAR
[01:03:04.220 -> 01:03:06.160] and IndyCar take this so seriously, but they're
[01:03:06.160 -> 01:03:07.340] also very openly.
[01:03:07.600 -> 01:03:08.600] Yes.
[01:03:08.600 -> 01:03:10.260] You know, communicating what they're
[01:03:10.260 -> 01:03:12.340] doing and what they're implementing
[01:03:12.400 -> 01:03:14.000] to reduce the risk of it happening
[01:03:14.000 -> 01:03:15.800] again or reduce the severity when it
[01:03:15.800 -> 01:03:16.800] does happen.
[01:03:17.120 -> 01:03:18.680] So I'm sure probably in the future,
[01:03:18.920 -> 01:03:20.420] as more information comes out, we'll
[01:03:20.420 -> 01:03:21.680] probably have something in a future
[01:03:21.680 -> 01:03:22.680] podcast.
[01:03:22.680 -> 01:03:22.960] Yeah.
[01:03:22.960 -> 01:03:24.160] But, you know, we've had a lot of
[01:03:24.160 -> 01:03:26.920] really good conversation spanning from Formula One to now. Now NASCAR, we'll probably have something in a future podcast. Yeah. But, you know, we've had a lot of really good conversation spanning from Formula One to
[01:03:26.920 -> 01:03:29.080] now NASCAR.
[01:03:29.080 -> 01:03:33.320] I think probably we'll table the tech bias segment maybe for next time.
[01:03:33.320 -> 01:03:37.280] We'll carry the just so, you know, we don't run on too long, but I think we'll jump right
[01:03:37.280 -> 01:03:39.680] into listener questions now.
[01:03:39.680 -> 01:03:44.360] So we did ask, we did ask some of our listeners, you know, if they had any questions they wanted
[01:03:44.360 -> 01:03:46.040] to ask to the breaking
[01:03:46.040 -> 01:03:53.360] bias folks such as ourselves. So I guess first question here is from Chris who's at Z and
[01:03:53.360 -> 01:03:58.520] Ranger says, how just how? I love that. How? Just how?
[01:03:58.520 -> 01:04:00.520] How now, brown cow?
[01:04:00.520 -> 01:04:07.580] Yeah. How just how did Williams end up starting so well? I mean, the whole season has me excited for them
[01:04:07.580 -> 01:04:09.620] and I love to watch them come out of the basement,
[01:04:09.620 -> 01:04:12.040] but a year ago I would have never predicted this.
[01:04:12.040 -> 01:04:14.020] So I guess the question is, you know,
[01:04:14.020 -> 01:04:15.260] what is Williams cooking?
[01:04:15.260 -> 01:04:18.100] So we, you know, we kind of talked about this a little bit
[01:04:18.980 -> 01:04:21.440] previously already, you know, lots of good signs.
[01:04:21.440 -> 01:04:23.900] I think though, if you are a Williams fan,
[01:04:23.900 -> 01:04:28.340] James Valves definitely has a team, I think, though, if you are a Williams fan, James Vowles definitely has a team, I think, heading in the right direction.
[01:04:28.340 -> 01:04:29.340] They've got a slippery car.
[01:04:29.340 -> 01:04:35.060] I think for 2024, it'll probably be trying to find maybe a bit more downforce for some
[01:04:35.060 -> 01:04:40.340] of the downforce heavy tracks to be more competitive, also in the race pace as opposed to just quali
[01:04:40.340 -> 01:04:41.340] pace.
[01:04:41.340 -> 01:04:44.260] What are your thoughts on Williams?
[01:04:44.260 -> 01:04:45.120] Anything else to add to that?
[01:04:45.120 -> 01:04:50.320] Yeah, I was going to say I think that this is maybe a further indicator of sliding scale aero
[01:04:50.320 -> 01:04:56.800] working where your place in the constructors championship dictates the amount of time that
[01:04:56.800 -> 01:05:02.960] you have for aerodynamic analysis and CFD time and wind tunnel time. I think that this could be
[01:05:02.960 -> 01:05:07.680] an indicator of that maybe starting to actually work.
[01:05:07.680 -> 01:05:11.940] I know a lot of people were maybe a little frustrated when we hit 2022 and there was
[01:05:11.940 -> 01:05:15.640] still a gap that, oh, it didn't work.
[01:05:15.640 -> 01:05:21.080] It's not an overnight thing like that because a lot of this kind of development and wholesale
[01:05:21.080 -> 01:05:23.780] of a car and whole development of a car, it takes a year.
[01:05:23.780 -> 01:05:24.780] It takes two years.
[01:05:24.780 -> 01:05:28.840] It can take ... It's not overnight in this world. I think that this could be now that
[01:05:28.840 -> 01:05:34.200] we're in – This is what, the third year of sliding scale on the arrow? Correct me
[01:05:34.200 -> 01:05:38.800] if I'm wrong. Yeah, three. This could be now we've kind of got our couple years in
[01:05:38.800 -> 01:05:42.280] and it's starting to work its way in and this maybe could be an effect of the sliding
[01:05:42.280 -> 01:05:45.260] scale. Arrow coming through where we see teams that were struggling before
[01:05:45.260 -> 01:05:47.400] actually have more time and they're actually
[01:05:47.400 -> 01:05:50.360] maybe utilizing it better too with strategic hirings
[01:05:50.360 -> 01:05:53.920] or, and are actually kind of bouncing back.
[01:05:53.920 -> 01:05:55.480] Yeah, very good point, Molly.
[01:05:55.480 -> 01:05:58.920] Definitely could be contributing it to this for sure.
[01:05:58.920 -> 01:06:01.640] So next question is from Red Lights Off
[01:06:01.640 -> 01:06:04.800] at Red Lights Off 5 on Twitter.
[01:06:04.800 -> 01:06:06.000] Two part question, we'll start with the first one. All right. from redlightsoff at redlightsoff5 on Twitter. Two-part question.
[01:06:06.000 -> 01:06:06.920] We'll start with the first one.
[01:06:06.920 -> 01:06:07.760] All right.
[01:06:07.760 -> 01:06:09.020] Do you think A.M. is,
[01:06:09.020 -> 01:06:11.200] Aston Martin is currently the second car
[01:06:11.200 -> 01:06:14.240] with the upgrades after seeing a few laps on softs
[01:06:14.240 -> 01:06:15.900] with a pace close to the Red Bulls?
[01:06:15.900 -> 01:06:17.280] Let's start there.
[01:06:17.280 -> 01:06:18.120] Any thoughts on that?
[01:06:18.120 -> 01:06:19.160] I'll let you start.
[01:06:19.160 -> 01:06:21.240] Okay, all right.
[01:06:21.240 -> 01:06:23.480] So yeah, I think, you know,
[01:06:23.480 -> 01:06:28.280] Zanvord being a track that has a tendency to have less of
[01:06:28.280 -> 01:06:34.720] a penalty if you're not fast in a straight line, maybe played up a bit to Aston, where
[01:06:34.720 -> 01:06:40.000] they do have a tendency to be stronger on these kind of higher medium downforce tracks
[01:06:40.000 -> 01:06:42.280] where they don't get penalized for straight line speed.
[01:06:42.280 -> 01:06:47.320] Until I see that they're able to produce something that can be more balanced between the high speed
[01:06:47.320 -> 01:06:49.040] and the lower speed track.
[01:06:49.040 -> 01:06:49.880] Then at that point,
[01:06:49.880 -> 01:06:51.740] I might start thinking the second best team.
[01:06:51.740 -> 01:06:54.480] I still think that Mercedes is the second best team.
[01:06:54.480 -> 01:06:56.880] I think it kind of yo-yos between,
[01:06:56.880 -> 01:06:58.480] you know, maybe McLaren recently,
[01:06:58.480 -> 01:07:00.360] but I think more steadily it's Mercedes.
[01:07:00.360 -> 01:07:01.440] Yeah, I would agree with that.
[01:07:01.440 -> 01:07:03.360] Recently, it's probably more like McLaren,
[01:07:03.360 -> 01:07:05.360] but I think that there's some yo-yoing
[01:07:05.360 -> 01:07:07.080] and I'd wanna see some more races too.
[01:07:07.080 -> 01:07:09.080] So then the second part of this question
[01:07:09.080 -> 01:07:13.560] is most of the teams improve a lot with the floor work,
[01:07:13.560 -> 01:07:16.280] McLaren and Aston Martin, in percentage
[01:07:16.280 -> 01:07:17.480] and using these regulations,
[01:07:17.480 -> 01:07:18.960] how important is the underfloor?
[01:07:18.960 -> 01:07:19.800] What do you think, Molly?
[01:07:19.800 -> 01:07:22.000] Any thoughts on that or should I jump right into it?
[01:07:22.000 -> 01:07:25.340] I mean, you looked like you were ready and like on it,
[01:07:25.340 -> 01:07:27.640] so go for it because I think we're gonna have
[01:07:27.640 -> 01:07:28.880] the same answer.
[01:07:28.880 -> 01:07:32.200] Yeah, I think from a percentage of downforce side of things,
[01:07:32.200 -> 01:07:34.120] I mean, I don't have a number to give to say
[01:07:34.120 -> 01:07:37.940] it's 35% of the total downforce or whatever, 40%,
[01:07:37.940 -> 01:07:40.000] but I think it's definitely the predominant part
[01:07:40.000 -> 01:07:42.680] of the downforce generator of these ground effect cars.
[01:07:42.680 -> 01:07:46.800] As we expect, the front wings and the rear wings are not contributing as much downforce
[01:07:46.800 -> 01:07:48.440] because it's dirty downforce.
[01:07:48.440 -> 01:07:49.400] Yeah, they're not as critical.
[01:07:49.400 -> 01:07:50.240] Yeah, exactly.
[01:07:50.240 -> 01:07:52.240] It comes with a higher drag penalty.
[01:07:52.240 -> 01:07:55.400] So the floors generate a lot more downforce with less drag.
[01:07:55.400 -> 01:07:57.920] So they're much more aero-efficient devices.
[01:07:57.920 -> 01:07:59.820] So yeah, I'd say that's why most teams
[01:07:59.820 -> 01:08:01.200] are working on the floors.
[01:08:01.200 -> 01:08:02.960] Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing.
[01:08:02.960 -> 01:08:06.160] Your answer was much more concise than mine. I was gonna say, it's pretty much all about the floors. Yeah, I was gonna say the same thing. Your answer was much more concise than mine.
[01:08:06.160 -> 01:08:09.400] I was gonna say it's pretty much all about the floors here
[01:08:09.400 -> 01:08:11.700] and got your other features less critical
[01:08:11.700 -> 01:08:13.560] than they used to be for downforce generation.
[01:08:13.560 -> 01:08:15.840] They're still important, but they're not as critical
[01:08:15.840 -> 01:08:18.600] as that piece of aerodynamic elements.
[01:08:18.600 -> 01:08:20.440] So same brain.
[01:08:20.440 -> 01:08:22.720] Yeah, and maybe something else along that
[01:08:22.720 -> 01:08:26.080] as well is that in 2022, we saw in Silverstone that-
[01:08:26.080 -> 01:08:27.360] Oh, that's a great point.
[01:08:27.360 -> 01:08:32.960] Max significantly lost pace when he had a front wing end plate end up in his floor.
[01:08:32.960 -> 01:08:37.600] And Charles Leclerc during Zandvoort ended up losing significant amount of pace because
[01:08:37.600 -> 01:08:40.160] floors are very sensitive as well to debris.
[01:08:40.160 -> 01:08:43.200] So that shows you just how much downforce they're generating.
[01:08:43.200 -> 01:08:46.360] Yeah, it was something like three tenths on Max's pace
[01:08:46.360 -> 01:08:48.680] with, was it Yuki's floor?
[01:08:48.680 -> 01:08:50.300] And then I don't know if somebody has done the math
[01:08:50.300 -> 01:08:52.920] on Charle yet, but he ultimately retired.
[01:08:52.920 -> 01:08:56.580] I still love that picture of Max holding the piece of floor.
[01:08:56.580 -> 01:08:58.020] It's one of my like favorite.
[01:08:58.020 -> 01:08:58.860] It's crazy.
[01:08:58.860 -> 01:08:59.740] Like, hey.
[01:08:59.740 -> 01:09:02.440] Just the funny thing about that story from Silverstone
[01:09:02.440 -> 01:09:03.760] though was just that, you know,
[01:09:03.760 -> 01:09:05.840] he initially thought he had a puncture, right?
[01:09:05.840 -> 01:09:09.120] Then they were like, no, you don't have a puncture and he changed his tires anyway.
[01:09:09.120 -> 01:09:10.680] Then he was like, something's wrong.
[01:09:10.680 -> 01:09:11.800] Your car doesn't feel right.
[01:09:11.800 -> 01:09:14.720] Then here he is at the end of the race holding up this big chunk of
[01:09:14.720 -> 01:09:18.080] like front wing end plate that was like stuck in his floor.
[01:09:18.080 -> 01:09:20.640] It was like a whole end plate practically.
[01:09:20.640 -> 01:09:21.280] It's crazy.
[01:09:21.280 -> 01:09:22.080] Oh my gosh.
[01:09:22.080 -> 01:09:23.840] I hope he has that frame somewhere.
[01:09:23.840 -> 01:09:24.800] I really do.
[01:09:24.800 -> 01:09:25.840] Yes. Oh man, you better.
[01:09:25.840 -> 01:09:28.840] Hey, Red Bull, let us know.
[01:09:28.840 -> 01:09:32.040] Yeah, let us know if you're listening.
[01:09:32.040 -> 01:09:38.280] So the last question here comes from a friend, Red B Jackson at Red Baylor on Twitter.
[01:09:38.280 -> 01:09:40.960] Why do wet tires get no love in wet races?
[01:09:40.960 -> 01:09:43.960] I love the way that's worded.
[01:09:43.960 -> 01:09:47.540] I do too, with the capital wet tires, wet races.
[01:09:49.440 -> 01:09:51.720] I mean, I know Molly, you were saying a little bit earlier
[01:09:51.720 -> 01:09:54.660] that you think we should be using the wet tires.
[01:09:54.660 -> 01:09:56.820] I mean, do you want to expand on any of that?
[01:09:56.820 -> 01:09:59.940] I think it just ties into exactly what I said earlier
[01:09:59.940 -> 01:10:02.100] in the pod, which is where it's a safety
[01:10:02.100 -> 01:10:04.220] versus actually racing.
[01:10:04.220 -> 01:10:05.980] Safety is always going to be the priority.
[01:10:05.980 -> 01:10:10.380] And so if it is raining at a rate in which your wet tire is not even going
[01:10:10.380 -> 01:10:12.600] to be effective at that point, why bother?
[01:10:12.600 -> 01:10:16.640] I mean, we know why it's there, but it only does so much and it
[01:10:16.640 -> 01:10:18.480] can only reject so much water.
[01:10:18.500 -> 01:10:21.820] Visibility becomes such a limiting factor as well.
[01:10:22.100 -> 01:10:22.300] Yeah.
[01:10:22.320 -> 01:10:26.240] It's best to just hold until conditions let up, honestly.
[01:10:26.240 -> 01:10:28.720] And I think that that's kind of my stance.
[01:10:28.720 -> 01:10:30.380] I think if you look at the instances of wet
[01:10:30.380 -> 01:10:32.560] that we have seen, it has made sense
[01:10:32.560 -> 01:10:35.580] why they have not gone ahead and proceeded.
[01:10:35.580 -> 01:10:37.040] Look at the rain in Monaco,
[01:10:37.040 -> 01:10:38.960] where we saw mixed enters and wets,
[01:10:38.960 -> 01:10:40.920] versus the rain that we saw at Spa,
[01:10:40.920 -> 01:10:42.480] the rain that we saw at Zandvoort.
[01:10:42.480 -> 01:10:45.160] It was a lot heavier and a lot more standing
[01:10:45.160 -> 01:10:49.120] water on track to the point of where the wet tire wasn't even going to make a difference.
[01:10:49.120 -> 01:10:50.120] Yeah.
[01:10:50.120 -> 01:10:56.000] I mean, the purpose of the wet tire is to eject or displace more water per unit time.
[01:10:56.000 -> 01:11:00.000] We know, as you said, I'm just really just echoing what you said there, Molly.
[01:11:00.000 -> 01:11:01.000] You said it very well.
[01:11:01.000 -> 01:11:02.000] Yeah, no, you're right.
[01:11:02.000 -> 01:11:09.360] But it's just more water means more spray typically. And until we can solve the spray problem, I think that wets are probably going to be
[01:11:09.360 -> 01:11:13.300] shelled honestly for a period of time or they're just going to defer to enters.
[01:11:13.300 -> 01:11:17.920] I think it's going to be a very narrow window in which we'll see wets come out until they
[01:11:17.920 -> 01:11:27.420] kind of solve that too with the slip and slide 3000s as I've dubbed it, on the diffuser. That's great.
[01:11:27.420 -> 01:11:29.320] Until they figure that out,
[01:11:29.320 -> 01:11:31.280] I don't know what they can do.
[01:11:31.280 -> 01:11:34.280] You're always gonna get that spray up and out,
[01:11:34.280 -> 01:11:36.360] but if they can get it ejected,
[01:11:36.360 -> 01:11:38.700] I think maybe at a higher angle or something
[01:11:38.700 -> 01:11:41.200] to kind of keep it out of the way, maybe,
[01:11:41.200 -> 01:11:43.120] but we're spitballing and trying to solve
[01:11:43.120 -> 01:11:46.200] the FAA's problems for free, which I'm not doing, so.
[01:11:46.200 -> 01:11:49.400] Nope, that's why they get paid to do it, exactly.
[01:11:49.400 -> 01:11:51.380] Yeah, if you want me to solve your problems,
[01:11:51.380 -> 01:11:52.880] pay us to solve your problems.
[01:11:52.880 -> 01:11:55.120] Yeah, you can sponsor our pod, start there.
[01:11:55.120 -> 01:11:57.360] Yeah, sponsor the pod.
[01:11:57.360 -> 01:11:59.320] That's all the listener questions that we had.
[01:11:59.320 -> 01:12:01.880] It's been a really fantastic episode too,
[01:12:01.880 -> 01:12:02.920] lots to talk about.
[01:12:02.920 -> 01:12:05.680] Hopefully, you know, our listeners have learned a thing
[01:12:05.680 -> 01:12:09.080] or two, any parting thoughts or words of wisdom
[01:12:09.080 -> 01:12:11.040] or anything you want to say before we go?
[01:12:11.040 -> 01:12:13.160] No, I'm ready for Monza.
[01:12:13.160 -> 01:12:14.320] Let's go racing.
[01:12:14.320 -> 01:12:15.160] How about you?
[01:12:15.160 -> 01:12:16.320] Any parting thoughts?
[01:12:16.320 -> 01:12:17.960] Same, same for me.
[01:12:17.960 -> 01:12:20.640] Wanna see what other cool things we get from Monza
[01:12:20.640 -> 01:12:23.000] as far as Monza spec wings and things like that.
[01:12:23.000 -> 01:12:25.820] But I think, yeah, we're off to a good start
[01:12:25.820 -> 01:12:27.660] to the second half of the season
[01:12:27.660 -> 01:12:29.820] and we're off to an even better start
[01:12:29.820 -> 01:12:32.220] to the Breaking Bias podcast.
[01:12:32.220 -> 01:12:33.620] I'm super excited.
[01:12:33.620 -> 01:12:35.900] Hopefully, if you are listening now,
[01:12:35.900 -> 01:12:37.620] you're already following our Twitter.
[01:12:37.620 -> 01:12:40.620] Make sure and follow us there at BreakingBiasPod
[01:12:40.620 -> 01:12:44.380] or follow us on our YouTube at the same address there.
[01:12:44.380 -> 01:12:47.400] And make sure and like and subscribe on our platforms,
[01:12:47.400 -> 01:12:50.020] iTunes, Spotify, everywhere that we are.
[01:12:50.020 -> 01:12:52.520] So thank you, Molly, for joining
[01:12:52.520 -> 01:12:54.960] and co-hosting this podcast with me
[01:12:54.960 -> 01:12:58.080] and being an equally equivalent, awesome part
[01:12:58.080 -> 01:13:00.240] of this co-hosting duo here.
[01:13:00.240 -> 01:13:02.760] And, you know, just want to thank everybody for listening
[01:13:02.760 -> 01:13:05.000] and we will see you next time.
[01:13:05.000 -> 01:13:07.000] Right back at you, Dr. Obbs.
[01:13:07.000 -> 01:13:08.000] See you next time.
[01:13:19.770 -> 01:13:21.770] you